Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Great now we have to beware of being hunted... I guess you could say
    the shoe is on the other foot... I hope that they are all right...
    
                    The antis would love this!!!!!
    
                                                         dan
    

    
    
    	Maybe he was using a scent.  Could be a good idea to pack
    	a pistol when bowhunting.
    
    
    	Gary

    
    	re: -.1 Gary, It's illegal to pack anything but arrows when 
    bowhunting in Vt!  No firearms allowed.  I was thinking the same thing
    about the scents -
    
    Rob

    Seems like a simple solution - just be sure to hunt out of a tree
    stand and BRING PLENTY OF ARROWS :-)
    
    Mark,
    

    
    
    re .4
    
    Mark,
    
    I was thinking the same thing...let me see, I carry 5 arrows, and 
    there's 6 coyotes...I figure I can handle one of them with my knife.
    Rabies would be the real threat...I know it's in epidemic proportions
    in Conn. and RI...don't know how it affects the 'yotes though.  Maybe
    the anti's will figure it out when their kids get bitten (I don't wish
    this on anyone though) by a rabid skunk or racoon.  Since the fur
    market has gone to poop, rodent populations are way up...
    
    Enough rambling...
    
    Kevin

    
    
    	actually your more likely to come upon canine distemper
    	in the young animals. I ran into a fox that way a couple
    	of years back. Luckily he was so far gone I was able to
    	walk back to the house, get my gun and then go dispatch him. 
    
    	I reported it to the game warden.

    
    What would you do if in the situation?  Firearms hunting you probably
    have the advantage, but Bow & Arrow? You could most likely take two
    maybe three IF you remain calm......
    
    With either weapon I would stand my ground. Remember, a wolf, coyote,
    especialy the eastern coyote which is larger and most experts say
    smarter than their western cousin, and more related to the wolf
    are, I forget the word """"""", need a running target. It seems these
    type predators work best at running or fleeing prey. If you stand your
    ground, maybe shout they'll become confused somewhat on how to handle
    the situation. 
    
    Anyway, I'd stand my ground trying to keep in sight the location of
    each yote. If you can identify the dominant one and take it, the rest
    should become confused and flee.
    
    Any other thoughts??  Anyone know the word used that indicates the
    predator needing a running target?
    
    Rick
    
    

      I'd pop the first one that gave me a decent shot.
    
    Jeff

    
    	Rick, I agree, to "try" to stay calm and take at least one out.
    However, in the Pittsford case at least, the attack occurred in
    the fading light while the hunter was walking out of the woods.
    One thing that has been suggested by some bioligists up here is
    that it's possible that the attack was not actually coyotes, but
    of wild (feral) dogs.  I guess the Pittsford guy was able to drive
    an arrow into one of the animals, but he was not able to find it
    the next day....  In any event, Feral dogs or coyotes, I guess it
    would be pretty scary.
    
    - Rob

    
    Pretty scary. Yep, sure gives a new meaning of walking to and from
    your deer stand in the dark.
    
    Two years ago when I shot a coyote with the muzzleloader it was the
    second time I saw him. Both times were early in the a.m.. In fact,
    it was 25min before sunrise.
    
    When I did take him, he just stood there about 30yds staring at me
    wondering what the hell I was. So, I showed him, with about 500 grains
    of lead from the 54cal. Anyway, it seems no matter where your hunting
    these days they're there. The coyote through fawn predadation will
    deplete your deer herd....and there's nothing anyone can do...they're
    are here and here they will stay.
    
    I on the other hand am planning on giving them a run for their money
    this winter. Through various calling devices and other means I will
    be out there hunting them very hard....after all, I consider the
    eastern coyote smarter than the whitetail and probably more
    challenging, what better way to increase your hunting time. The one
    I have mounted on the wall with a vicious snarl not only is a symbol
    of the wild north, but a great conversation piece as well. Most people
    say to me, Nice Buck!...what the hell is that?? It's an eastern coyote
    that I shot in back of your house.....The looks on their
    faces....ha,ha,.
    
    Rick
    

    Hey, Rick... if your looking for a coyote partner...  ;^)
    
    Fra

    YEAH, THE MORE THE MERRIER.  ALWAY'S WANTED TO TRY IT.
    					BUTCH

    Scary aint the word! I have a doberman pinscher and I know what those
    teeth can do. I would not want to be in that situation at all. Several
    yotes yapping and snarling at you (taking a bite when they can). Man,
    gives me the chills just thinking about it. 
    
    I may be opening a can of worms here but, I was thinking the same as a
    few replies back, carrying a pistol for protection. Seems to me if you
    have a vaid permit (needed in MA, dont know about VT) you should be
    able to carry one in the woods too. Provided you do not use it to hunt.
    
    Sure would make dealing with the critters a lot easier.  :^)
    
    Don
    

    Pistol isn't allowed while bow hunting in Vermont.  However I would 
    not fault anyone carrying one in his boot....  
    
    N

    New Hampshire is pretty good about carrying with a bow, it says right
    in the rule book that one can carry a firearm if the hunter has either
    a pistol permit or a hunting license for firearms or both. I always
    carry my redhawk while bowhunting, I just don't leave home without it.
    I would really like to bag a couple of coyotes while stick hunting. I
    also carry it during bow season up north for bear anyways.
    							bret

    A canine has three basic drives, pursuit, social, and defense. Run from
    a canine and you will probably be chased. The word .7 was looking for
    is pursuit.

    
    Do people ever get killed or injured by wolves or coyotes.
    I thought that wolves although capable of killing humans tended to stay
    clear. 
    I live in a England (not New England) which is clear of rabies
    but when abroad I would always stay well away from any nocturnal mammal
    that is out in daylight ie. an animal behaving unusually.
    Whilst I here what does an un-armed man do if confronted by a bear, and
    don't say "find a gun quickly!"
    
    Martin
    
    

    
    
    Martin:
    
    I Read I believe in Outdoor Canada a couple months back, that there
    are no reported deaths on humans by wolves in Canada. Although NONE
    seems a little few, one could certainly put them at very rare. I expect
    though like many carnivoires, put yourself between you and its little
    ones or surprise it and you might feel a little safer with a gun in 
    hand...hmmm.. wonder if this applies to bunnies-;)..Monty python comes
    to mind-;)
    
    As far as bears, the chances of coming across one in many parks not
    too far from here is fair to good. The first natural instinct of 
    running isn't good, they probably would catch you. Black bears at least
    climb trees, so thats out. Generally *they* say, hold your ground,
    make lots of noise and back away slowly.
    
    This reminds me of a joke I heard...(I'm sure many of you have 
    heard it..)...
    
    Two guys are out taking a leisurly stroll through the woods.
    They round a small hill to themselves face to face with a burly old 
    bear.
    Both of them take off as fast as they can with the bear in hot persuit!
    All of a sudden, one of them stops, puts down his napsack, and takes
    out his sneakers!
    The other one says, what on earth are you doing! This bear is gonna
    outrun us!!!....
    The other guy say, I don't have to worry about outrunnin' that bear..
    I just gotta worry about outrunnin you!
    
    						/ Andrew /
     

>>                      <<< Note 1064.17 by DUCK::HALLAMM >>>
>>                                  -< wolves >-

>>    Whilst I here what does an un-armed man do if confronted by a bear, and
>>    don't say "find a gun quickly!"
    
    Martin,

If you are attacked by a bear, the current conventional wisdom (at least
according to what I've read) is something like this.  Curl up in a fetal
position with you hands clasped firmly over the back of your neck.  Whatever
you do, DON'T make eye contact with the animal.  The idea is that the
bear will find you more trouble than you're worth and eventually leave
you alone.  Than, get the h*** outta there.

I read one account where someone was attacked by a Grizzly and used this
technique to survive, relatively unscathed.

Other advice includes:

	- If hiking in bear country, make lots of noise.  A lot of
	bear attacks are the results of the bears being startled
	by humans.  If they hear you coming, they will leave you
	alone (supposedly).

	- If camping in bear country, keep any and all food at a safe
	distance from your sleeping quarters.  For example, never have
	food inside your tent while sleeping.  Also, there are
	ways to "bear-proof" your food supply.  I won't go into that
	here.

	- Women should be especially careful when camping in bear
	country if it's "that time of the month".  I'm not trying
	to be sexist or insensitive, but I've read that bears can
	smell menustrating women and are attracted to the smell.
	Also, I think that I read something about having sex in
	the great outdoors.  This is another one of those activities
	that produce a smell that bears find attractive.

I'm sure that there is lots of other good advice, but that's all I
have.
    
Jerry    

    Last week, in Pennsylvania, a hunter was attacked by a buck deer,
    apparently maddened by the rut. He was hunting small game, I think,
    with a shotgun. His two companions were elsewhere in the woods. When he
    was done hunting, he unloaded his shotgun before walking out of the
    woods (trying to be a safe conscientious hunter.) At some point, he
    came upon a buck who attacked him without provocation. The hunter tried
    to block the deer with his unloaded gun but the buck caught the gun
    with its antlers and tossed it away from the hunter. The hunter then
    tried to keep from being gored by the antlers by holding onto the
    deer's head. Somehow, he managed to keep ahold of the deer for a couple
    of hours until his companions came looking for him. They managed to
    shoot the deer and kill it. The hunter required approximately 60
    stitches but will recover.
    
    I never heard of this type of thing before. The hunter is probably very
    lucky to be alive. Note, I may have a few details slightly incorrect as
    I heard this account from my wife who heard it from her father in PA
    who read it in the local paper. Maybe, one of our hunters/readers in PA
    can add/correct details I don't have.
    
    Makes me reconsider my father's habit of always carrying a pistol when
    he goes into the woods for any activity. (He lives in PA also and is
    licensed to carry.)
    
    Was it the Sergeant in Hill St. Blues who used to say, "Let's be
    careful out there"?
    
    Ed-who-will-be-in-PA-for-buck-season-in-a-few-weeks 
    
    

 

	re -2 - Having sex may attrack bears



	Sounds like a baiting method I could grow to like.  


	many ;^)

Wild animals do strange things when they get used to people. Here are two
news stories from New Jersey that you may appreciate:

- Few weeks back Princenton N.J. area residents were faced with the the dilemma
  of having to allow the hunt for "Bambi". Seems like they banned hunting;
  deer population grew and became a nuisance (lots of road kills and smahed
  up volvos, bmws, etc). The final straw was when a buck crashed through
  a storefront window during the middle of the day. Lots of people favored
  allowing hunting again in order to cut down on the deer population and
  revive the fear of people in these animals.

   ** I don't know how the vote turned out. Maybe someone from that area can
      bring us up to date.
				--------

- This news story is from Flemington N.J.
  Yesterday a 5 point buck pushed his way through the door at the local Carvel.
  The buck went by  the amazed store manager and into the cooler, apparently
  in search of ice cream. The store manager called the police who tranqulized
  the animal and removed it from the store.
  
Monday is openning day in N.Y. southern zone. I am bringing a vanilla cone to
my stand.

    
    I talked to a friend of mine in PA last night and he said they had a
    write up in the paper about the buck attacking the guy.
      He said that the article read man holds onto deer for 4 hours till
    his friends could kill it., The kid held onto the deer till his 2
    friends came looking for him and they wanted him to let the deer go but
    he said no way, so they tied it up and when the guy let go of the deer
    it imediatly got loose and went after the same guy again! so they got
    it down again and retied it and as soon as the guy got away from the
    deer the other 2 guy's shot the buck.
    
        I guess this happened not too far from our camp in northern Pa. It 
    never seases to amaze me how a buck in full rut acts at times. 
    
                                                 Lee
    

    The only thing I could think of when I read this story was:
    
    
    
    What kind of "buck lure" was he wearing, and is it possible to get the
    same brand here in New Hampshire???
    
    
    
    Sorry, couldn't resist :^))
    
    
    Tom

re -.22  I grew up (for the most part) close to Flemington NJ.  That whole
Northwestern part of the state has a TON of deer running around.  It's not
your typical NJ picture also.  We lived adjacent to a big farm which bordered
state land.  We also had permission to hunt private land behind our house.
It WAS mostly farm country but like everywhere else it's evolving into
developments.

Anyway, each year the deer's range keeps getting smaller because of industry
but their population keeps getting larger.  They have several incidents 
similar to the ones you described a year.

With permits you can take: 

2 - any sex,    fall bow
2 - any sex,    extended bow
2 - bucks only, shotgun
2 - any sex,    winter bow/muzzleloader
2 - does,       shotgun
-------------------------
10 total

That number might've gone up in the last couple of years.

/marc