Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Hi Rick,
      I also carry two compasses.  One is the type that pins to your
    coat and the other is a surveyers compass.  For the reason that
    someone in a previous note stated, Two makes me trust the reading.
    Sort of like getting a second opinion.
      I've been "lost" once.  Not alot of fun.  Got out of the woods
    about 8:30 at night.  Aprox 12 miles from where we went in.  Luckily
    a farmer gave us a ride back to our truck.  Always take a reading
    now before entering the woods.
    
    Jeff

    I always carry a compass whenever hunting or backpacking. I have
    a small Silva liquid filled pin-on and always take a reading before
    going into the woods. I carry a spare in my fanny pack which contains
    first-aid and survival gear. During the past several years I have
    been hunting alone (don't like it but a good hunting friend is hard
    to find) and have a habit of checking the compass about every 15
    minutes of walking, especially if I'm following a deer trail. 
    	Back in 1978 my hunting partner and I didn't bother to take
    a compass on our trip because we both "knew" the area well. Once
    we arrived at the hunting site, we decided to try a new area. You
    guessed it, we got lost and about midnight we decided our only chance
    out was to follow water. About 4am we came out to a campground and
    a hunter drove us to where we were parked......11 miles away. I
    never forgot that experience. Like the commercial, DON'T leave home
    without it. 

    	Compass use can be optional or required depending on the
    circumstances. If I'm hunting a small familiar piece AND it's a
    sunny day I most likely will not even pull it out of my pocket but
    I almost always carry it.
    
    	I consider it a must whenever I go into a new area or am hunting
    a large piece of woods. I sometimes use it to get out of the woods
    a little quicker than I otherwise might without it.
    
    	I use a liquid filled compass that has degree marks (some only
    have major direction i.e. N, NE, E, etc.)
    
    	I HAVE had a compass lie to me. Somehow the needle got demagnitized
    to the point it was not consistant. I didn't have another one and
    had to trust my instincts. Luckily, they were correct (easy if the
    sun is out and you have a watch). When I got home I remagnitized the 
    needle and it's been fine ever since. 

    	RAYJ

    I carry one and always will, ever since i got lost up in the northern
    kingdom of VT. I pulled out the compass took a reading, slipped
    it back into my pocket (or so I thought, actually slipped it into
    the opening of my rain pants, and it slid out my leg opening) and
    and was on my way, come time to come out... no compass... almost
    ended up spending the evening in the woods, luckily I hit a fire
    road, ended up miles from the campsite. 
    
    Now I have a backup in my fanny pack, fortunately where we hunt
    they are not necessary as it is very hilly dairy country with lots
    of dirt roads. 
    
    Ray, I have heard and read somewhere about the use of a watch, could
    you please jog my memory as to how it doubles as a compass....
    as I remember you have to use the sun and the minute hand and the
    shadow????
    
    Fra
    
    
    

RE:.3


How did you remagnetize the compass?  I have one at home that this happened to.

Rich

    I love the pin-on ball compass.  It is so easy to just look down
    and see what direction you want to go without having to pull out
    the compass from your pocket.  I find I check the compass much
    more often that way.  The only drawback is that they can be lost
    or broken more easily, so the spare makes a lot of sense.
    
    Mark
    

    I also use the pin-on and carry a back up. I've lost two pin-ons
    already. Dave N. tells me that's because I spend most of my time
    falling down rather than hunting. ;^)
    
    Guy

    The best Compass is your internal one, I have ventured hundreds
    of miles out into the desert ( Saudi) and back without ever a problem
    just atune yourself to your surroundings. I can't belive the way
    some people get lost, I've a neighbor who was lost in his own backyard
    of only a couple acres( What a bonehead)
    
    The watch Idea has been around forever and it works. Just keep your
    latatude in mind and point the 12 O'clock point at the sun, Assuming
    you know wether it's AM or PM the Hour hand will point to north.
    Easy Eh?
    
    Allways trust your Compass as right and back it up with your other
    senses. I have had quite a few times navigating offshore when Loran
    C goes down or something is not quite right. I carry two compass
    to referance on each other and of course have my watch as backup.
    
    Tips in the woods. Streams,rivers as was said allways run to the
    Sea ( You gotta be really lost to follow all the way)
    
    Fire roads allways lead out to a main road if you follow the leg
    of the Y, Fact is logging trucks just don't make tight conners.
    
    Up north - Sun rises in the east and sets in the west, Down south
    it's oppisite.
    
    Also- Water will flow cntr clockwise north and clockwise south-
    Just a tidbit,( How many of you will check the drain next time?)
    
    If you get really,Really lost? And you will never make it back to
    civilization. Consider yourself to have had goo fortune.
    

    	I carry a pin on plus a SILVA type 7, and also, no matter how
    well I know the area, a TOPO Map. In reading the last 8 replies,
    noone mentioned the TOPO.
    
    
    	Red

      It's been mentioned by a couple of people that they've been
    suspicious of their compass readings at times. One thing I've found
    that will help to dispel those doubts is to put your rifle down,
    and step away from it before you take your reading.
      I recall once trying to get a precise reading with my rifle cradled
    in my arms, then slung over my shoulder, and finally was able to,
    only after setting it aside. Apparently, there's enough metal in
    a gun to make a difference, at least from what I've experienced.
    
    
                                                                   Chuck

    
    Someone sent this to me the other day so I thought I'd enter it here.
    
From The NEOC Times, The newsleter of the New England Orienteering Club:
Excerpted from a recent EMS, Eastern Mountain Sports, Catalog:

The other day as I was counting out change to a customer here at EMS,
I noticed an elderly man staring at our selection of compasses.

"Good thing you ain't got none of them Tates compasses," he announced
loudly to a salesman passing by.  Before the salesman could respond,
the man repeated himself:  "Yep, sure is a good thing you ain't got
those Tates compasses!"

Not having ever heard of a "Tates" compass I became very interested
and asked him why it was that we were lucky not to have these so called
"Tates" compasses.

He grinned at me and said simply:  "Because he who has-a-Tates is lost!"
and just giggled and walked away.


   Does he know somthing we don't know?
   :)

   Steve

    re. .8,,maybe I misunderstood, but was there a mention there that
    the sun rises in the West and sets in the East "in the south" ??
    Please say that it's a mistake.
    
    	By the way, how can you find North with a digital watch? :^)
    
    		George

    re:.8
    
    I must have misunderstood also... would be a neat trick though ;^)
    one other thing, how does the rotation of whirlpools help you with
    direction????? did i miss something....
    
    can anyone give more specifics on the watch thing, am I to assume
    that this just gives you a general idea of where north is, seems
    to me that it would really only work between 9am and 3pm, i'm probably
    missing something... just knowing sunrise/sunset is a pretty good
    indicator. 
    
    Something else thats handy to know, not necessarily for being lost
    in the woods but for the times when you come out onto a road miles
    from where you went in, and don't know what road your on; is that
    even numbered routes run east/west, odd numbered routes run 
    north/south.
    
    Fra
    
     
    
    

    RE: .8
    
    Now I am getting confused.  I always used this rule for the watch:
    
      Point hour hand at sun.
    
      SOUTH (NORTH if you are in S.Hemisphere) is half way (counter-clockwise 
      in PM, clockwise in AM) between the hour hand and 12:00.
    
      There should probably be an adjustment for Daylight Savings Time,
      but it would still be close enough for most purposes.
    
    For example (North of equator only):
    
      At noon, hour hand and sun are both south.
    
      at 6AM, South is at 9 on watch.
                           
      at 7PM, South is at 3:30 on watch.
    
      after sunset, you are lost.
    
      
    If you only have a digital watch, either you wander aimlessly or
    you draw a picture of one (and hope you remembered how to do it
    right).
    
    

RE .8

Sun rises in the west and sets in the east in the southern hemisphere?  Remind 
me to not hire you as a guide if I ever go hiking in Australia. :-)

Another trick to find direction if you are really lost (as opposed to being 
a bit confused) that doesn't need any mechanical devices to be brought 
along is this.  

Before we start this has to be done when there are shadows on the ground 
and you have to do it on level ground.

Takes a 3-4' long stick and push it into the dirt.  Mark the spot where the 
tip of the sticks' shadow falls on the ground.  Wait 10 or 15 minutes until 
the sun moves enough to make the tip of the shadow travel at least 6" then 
mark the second spot where the tip of the shadow is falling.  Draw a line 
between the 2 spots.  This is the east west line.  The end of the line that 
you first marked is the western end and the end of the line that you 
marked second is the eastern tip.  Put your left foot next to the west tip 
and your right foot next to the east tip.  You're facing north.  Works all 
over the globe.


Another tip that I use that most of you probably already know.  When
traveling through the woods you can easily maintain a straight line of
travel by sighting in with your compass on a tree or other feature that is
standing out.  After you have identified the feature that is right on your
azmith of travel put the compass away and simply walk to the feature you
identified (It could be a large tree in the distance or a rock or something
else).  Once you've reached the feature you sighted on, take out your
compass and make another sighting and select another feature.  Repeat this
process until you get where you want to go.  This is a good way to keep
traveling in a straight line when the terrain is very uneven. 

If you don't want to keep that kind of accuracy (and on most short hikes it 
is unnecessary, simply take an azmith and then line up 3 trees along the 
line of march.  When you get to the 1st tree, line up the last 2 tress with 
another that is further out and keep trucking.  Everytime you get to the 
closest tree you pick a new third tree that is in line with the 2 tress 
that are still out in front of you.  This allows you to travel a fairly 
straight course without too much fuss.

One last point about compass use.  If you are walking an azmith back to the 
road where you parked your car, aim slightly to the left or right of your 
car.  Don't try to come out right on the mark.  The reason for this is that 
even with a compass, most of us will either make errors in setting the 
azmith or make errors while traveling the azmith.  If you come out onto the 
road and your car is not there, there are 3 possibilities.  Either you are 
to the left or right of your car or it was stolen.  Chances are your 
slightly off course, but which way do you walk and how far?

If you purposefully go to either side, when you come out onto the road you
will be 90% certain of the direction you have to walk in since you PLANNED
to be either left or right of the car.  Basic stuff I know but then again
one shouldn't assume that everyone reading this file is a born woodsman and
grew up on the farm.  :-) 


Rich

    Yea. A lot of you picked up on the Sun rising in the west down
    south,Shame on you that didn't, you should be sent on a hike to
    bora bora. 
    
    The watch trick is just a general heading, At least you will get
    in the right direction. I made an error that was corrected by the
    author of note 13, Point the hour hand at the sun and North will
    be at 12:00 (Northern hemisphire) oppisite down south, Honest.
    
    Water swriling in clockwise/cntrclockwise direction is just a bit
    of trivia, Kinda like Moss only growing on the north side of trees.
    
    Oh. for all you that asked. A digital watch does not work but a
    sundial will. 
    
    And for those of you who still feel insecure about getting lost
    I suggest you carry an E.P.I.R.B. and flare gun along with a ham
    radio.
    
    Remember to fire three shot's into the air to indicate your lost.
    Don't use all your arrows at once.
    

>    Water swriling in clockwise/cntrclockwise direction is just a bit of
>    trivia, Kinda like Moss only growing on the north side of trees.
    
    
    And what does it do on the equator???
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Goes straight down. No swirl at all. No coriolis force there.
    
    
    				

    remember this when your wandering around in the dark....
    
    your never lost, just misplaced!!! makes you feel better ;^)
    
    Fra

    I always carry a compass.  I agree with .2.  I favor the pin on
    Silva brand.  It is an excllent compass.  
    
    The reason I like a pin on is that if all I have to do is look down
    to get a reading (rather than pull off my glove, reach in my pocket,
    fumble for compass, read, put glove back on....) I take readings
    far more often and catch mistakes early on.  A pin on compass of
    the ball variety would also be good, but I like the precise format
    of the Silver better than a ball type....just my personal preference.
    
    You can get Silva's almost anywhere including Bean's catalog.
    
    Brett.
    

    	When asked if he'd ever been lost, one of the famous old mountain
    men (I think it was Jim Bridger) said "No, I ain't never been lost,
    powerful confused for a few months once".

re: demagnitized compasses
    
    	All I did to fix my compass when it got screwed up was to place
    it next to a magnet. This will remagnitize the pin and make it just
    like brand new rebuilt. Being that the pin is partially magnetized,
    it should automatically be attracted to the proper pole of the magnet.
    
    	As a kid we made compasses in science class. All you need to
    do is magnetize a pin or needle and place it on a piece of cork
    or styrofoam and float it on water. The needle will line up
    North/South.
    
    	RAYJ

    re. 260.16...are you sure??
    
    During the months we hunt, fall & winter, the sun rises in the
    south east and sets in the south west. It is roughly due south
    at noon. Thus it seems that if you point the hour hand at the sun
    that south will be roughly 1/2 way between tha hour hand and noon.
    
    I also carry 2 compasses and a 7.5 min topo of the area AND a series
    of notes made from other "more global" maps that contain info on
    creeks & rivers, their direction of travel, mines both active and
    abandoned etc. When venturing into a new area I make a boundary
    map and never violate the boundarys. For example, in an area I have
    hunted for years I sometimes take folks from work with me. It is
    bounded by a creek, a power line and a hard top road and bisected
    by an east-west gas line. If you never cross water,power or the
    road your not lost, twisted up to beat hell but not lost!!!
    Just walk a strait line and find one of the boundaries and follow
    them out.
    
    Following water makes good sense IF you have done your homework
    and know where you will end up if you keep walking down, ie.
    down the hill to the creek, down the creek to the river and down
    the river to the town.
    
    

    
    	RE: .6
    	TOSS-IT had a compass once that for some rason lost its' direction.
    re-magnatized it, lost it again!! don't take the chance. Hate to
    hear you were dislocated for several days due to a bad compass.
    
    	For cost a good compass is cheap and well worth the price. What
    price would you pay at 12 midnight sitting under that pine tree?
    
    	Steve

    I take two compasses, but use the pin on ball type for the most
    part.  I also take topo maps, with lines drawn one inch apart
    representing magnetic north.  The degree of angle varies in different
    parts of the country, but if you nee to be super accurate, you can
    find the exact degree of angle and doctor your map accordingly.
    
    As a certified Hunter Safety instructor in Massachusetts, I've taken
    a course in map, compass and safety.  Although I've always used
    a compass, this taught me how to be pretty darn precise with these
    tools.  Part of the course was an actual "orienteering" exercise
    to see that you could practice in the field what you learned in
    the class.

I went out Sunday with my smoke pole looking for deer.  Had a pin ball type 
compass on the flap of my shooting bag.  For some reason the compass looked 
strange.  I didn't believe it.  Well that's simple enough I said (thinking 
of this note at the same time).  I slowly turned around in a complete 
circle.  The compass did not do the same.  Hmmmmm.  I took it off the flap 
and held it out at arms length and slowly turned around again.  This time 
the compass did a 360 too.  Must have been something in the bag, probably 
the powder flask.  Anyway I pinned the compass on the strap of the bag and 
it remained true after that.

I got the idea when I arrived home that I would store my compass next to a 
large magnet.  Kind of keeping it recharged all the time.  If putting it 
next to a large magnet will recharge it then storing it next to one would 
be best, right?

Rich

    	The last note brings a question to mind. If you don't have a
    compass AND a topo, can you really be accurate ?
    
    	Below is an example of what I'm trying to find out. A person
    takes the following route into the woods:
    
    	    N			\
    	    ^		  	 ----- 	
    	    |			       \
      W <-------> E			|
    	    |			   ----
    	    v			  /
    	    S		         / <------ took this route
    				|
    				|			
		  --------------------------------------------------
    				Road you entered from
    		  --------------------------------------------------
    		
	In the above example, the person went in off a road that ran
    East/West and headed North, then East a little, then North some
    more, then West a little, etc.. At this point you would not be real sure
    if you walked more East than West. My point is that the only thing
    I can see a compass doing for you is to tell you the direction to
    get back to the road, NOT the point you started from.
    
    	My question is, Is this true or am I missing something about
    compass use ??????

    	RAYJ

    I believe you are right.  With a topo map, you can determine degrees,
    landmarks, estimated distances, etc. to assist in your amblings.
    Without the topo it's more general, although good enough to keep
    yourself from going in the wrong direction and ulitmately getting
    really messed up.

    I myself basically use the compass to head out in the right direction
    altough I like to think I will come out close to where I started,
    But, many years ago when I did coon hunting the guy I went with
    was a registered guide in maine and new brunswick, he consistently
    brought us out within sight of our vehicle after a night of running
    and all he used was his compass.

He probably had a good basic knowledge of the area.

There's a couple of techniques that you can use with a map and compass that 
allow you a pretty good idea of your location.  These are called 
intersection and resection.  Basicly they involve using a map and compass 
to locate your position on a map or the position of other objects on a map 
using the azmiths (of prominent features) read off the compass.


Rich

    Just to add another tool to the list of the compass and the top
    map: The aerial photograph. They are fantastic for helping identify
    landmarks and best possible routes. I also find them ideal for showing
    the boundries of swamps (which Top maps do not). If you want to
    get fancy you can order two of the same area, and with a sterioscope
    (?spelling) you can see features in three dimensions (including 
    elevation).
    
    Scott.

    I may be a little late.............like 1 year with this entry.

  I'm not sure if this has been covered yet and I'm sure that most people
who use a topo map with a compass probably already know this but....
anytime you take a compass heading and want to walk that same heading on
a map, you have to convert from a magnetic heading to a grid heading.

  Any good topo map has three headings at the bottom of it. True North,
which is the north pole and we don't care about; Magnetic North, which is
where a compass should point for North;  and Grid North, which are the vertical
straight lines which are printed on a map. This is called the Declination
Diagram.

  To align your topo map with your compass:
  
  1) Place the map on the flatest surface you can find.
  2) You have to locate your position on the map. (point A)
  3) Place a pencil mark there and a pencil mark on the point you want
     to go to. (point B)
  4) Draw a straight line from point A to point B
  5) Place your compass directly on top of the Magnetic North line of the
     Declination Diagram.
  6) Align the Compass so its North arrow faces exactly the same direction
     as the Magnetic North line that's drawn on the bottom of the map. You'll
     have to move the map around under the compass to accomplish this.
  7) You are now roughly declinated.
  8) Leaving the map and compass aligned, roughly guess the direction in 
     degrees from point A to point B, by looking at the angle of the drawn
     line and the printed degree headings on the compass.
   
                                                                   
      Without any mathematics or knowing which way to move a bezel,
    this is reasonably accurate.

    Great note!
    
    I've read this process in many outdoor magazines and have committed
    it to memory.  If other hunters out there frequent areas requiring
    you to negotiate your way in/out of the woods by this process, I
    suggest you print this and keep a copy in your map bag.  
    
    I've found my way out of the deep Maine woods in snowstorms, fog
    and darkness, and it's very comforting to know how to do this.
    
    Mark.

	First thing I do when I get a new map is lay it out flat
	on a table top (no dents, please) and align a straightedge
	with the magnetic north line.

	Ink a few lines a coupla inches apart (always as parallel
	as you can with magnetic line) across the map.

	This way you can use the magnetic north lines much easier
	and do away with any converstions from geographical and
	magnetic north.

	AA

	I thought the three norths on the rose were north star, 
	geographical and magnetic.