Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    If you have a good idea of where you can find them, you're off to
    a very good start.
    
    I've never hunted coyotes, as such, but have seen them several times
    while deer hunting.  On two of these occasions I was hunting with
    a bow and didn't risk a shot--I'm not sure what a wounded coyote
    would do, but I don't think I'd want one roaming around a populated
    area.  
    
    I should think that a .222 Remington would be a good weapon choice
    if you are a reasonable marksman.  If you use a shotgun, you should
    probably use at least a 16 gauge, preferably 10 or 12, with buckshot.
    Hunt them pretty much the way you would hunt deer.  Also, it might
    be a good idea to check with the game warden; he might know of good
    places to look, and it might be good for him to know ahead of time
    what you are hunting if it doesn't happen to be deer season.  I
    gather that coyotes kill a lot of deer and other game, as well as
    domestic livestock; accordingly, I would think that the game warden
    would feel you are doing him a favor.
    
    Craig

    If you have a idea where they are running your off to a great start.
    
    I took one last year during black powder deer season with my T/C
    54cal renegade,this is really to much for coyote but I knew they
    were in the area and it was deer season so i was trying for both
    with what i could carry during the muzzle loader season.The funny
    part of this is that i had seen him(a male about 40lbs.)twice while
    on deer stand.First on a saturday morning @ 9:00am and then on tuesday
    at 6:05 am. same exact place.Here i am hunting south western N.H.
    and down along the edge of a hardwood ridge that runs into a cedar
    swamp with heavy pines and hemlock.I made a nice stand between two
    large pines where i was able to see a good 35-40 yds kinda open
    from all sides except behind me where it was pretty thick,but i
    could still slide a maxi ball thru some openings if i had too.Well
    on saturday i'm watching the thick stuff behind me and i see this
    ghost like animal sneaking thru the pines toward me he gets about
    25 yds and stops looks up and down side to side real jumpy like
    as to what is in front of him is not right.Well here i am with this
    thunderstick just about part of the tree im standing behind peeking
    from the side and trying to put that crude front sight on the chest
    of this wild looking coyote that sure represents the wild north
    country.but i cant seem to find my mark so i let him go.sunday and
    monday pass no deer no coyote,tuesday comes and im on stand at 5:30am
    sitting there in the dark and having a cup of coffee from my
    thermos,i,m wondering if today will be as slow as the last two.well
    5:55 comes and so does the crack of dawn the woods come alive with
    red squirrels and chickadees,about 6:0O the reds are runninig around
    like someone had shot hot oil up ther a** and acting real strange,I
    am at full alert looking into this thick stuff the best i could
    when low and behold here comes this gray ghost slithering thru the
    hemlocks.he comes out the same place again but this time he steps
    into an opening 25yds from me that gives me a clear shot,like shooting
    down a bowling alley the size of a basket ball.he is not standing
    broadside but looking straight at me(nose to tail)the only shot
    i have is his chest between his front legs.I know my gun and my
    confidence is high so i squeeezze off the 100grs of blackpowder
    that will push my 450grn maxiball to its true mark.after the smoke
    had cleared i had relized that a perfect hit had been attained as
    he lay motionless.the maxiball went thru his chest just below his
    neck broke all the ribs on his left side but never came out.all
    and all i felt i had met this rare animal on his own ground and
    to me it is a trophy for not to many hunters get this guy as well
    as see him.I am having a shoulder mount done at wildlife tax.in
    manchester cost $150.00 and am looking foward to getting it back
    next fall.after the season i started looking into this coyote hunting
    in N.H. and found that most people use preditor calls in the early
    am and pm hours,but during the harsh times jan thru march the calls
    will work anytime during the day.the guns most used are a
    243,257roberts and a 12ga with either #2's or 4buck.
    
    well sorry for the long story just thought you would find it
    interesting,did i get your blood boiling?ha,ha,I would think the
    222 is enough i know the 22mag is not.anyway good luck to ya and
    let us know how you make out.
    
    Regards,
    Rick.........
    

    Preditor calls are the way to go. Using calls you don't have to
    stumble on to them, they'll find you. The call I have/use is the
    dieing rabbit call. They can here that over *about* a mile, depending
    on wind.  There is also a squeaking mouse call that is used when
    they are close, to get them to move out from behind trees and things.
    (get the tape of the rabbit, your friends will love it, guaranteed
    to drive the wife/girl friend insane!)
    
    Find the area you want to hunt and locate a hill, not too big but
    enough where you can see (almost) every direction. Start calling at
    first light or evening (legal hunting hours). From what I've heard call
    for about 15 minutes in one location and then move to a new location.
    I think I'd give it a little longer though. Keep wind direction in mind
    as well. (remember to camo up too, face and all)

    Coyote's are hard to see so keep a sharp eye ! They'll sneak right
    up on you, if you don't. Most times though they'll come a runn'en
    and will run over the top of you, (if you let em). A little snow
    on the ground will help out alot.
    
    If there are two together, sometimes you can shoot one and the other
    will be back shortly so wait a few more minutes, before moving.
    
    If you have a buddy that wants to go along have him sit at the calling
    station and you sit 20-30 yards in front of him. They'll head for
    your buddy and you'll be 20 yards closure.
    
    Just about anything will kill a Coyote. I shot one about two weeks
    ago with a .22 (Ruger Mark II) at about 30-40 yards out. I thought
    I had no chance at that range, but he's in the freezer waiting to
    be tanned. :-}  (.222 - .243 will do fine)
    
    Anything else ?
    
    Good luck and shoot straight, you'll only get one shot.
    Mark

    Thanks for the replys.  Couple of questions:
    
    Have you ever used the electronic callers and are they that much
    better then a mouth blown call?  Are there any good tapes on the
    market that can help in learning to call?  My wife is gonna love
    this. 8*)  She goes nuts when I play a tape on duck calling.
    Especially now that my three yr old has his own call and runs around
    the house blowing it.  I get "the look" every time he quacks.
    
    Im leaning towards using the .222, rather then a shotgun as I'd
    like have one mounted.  Are head shots the only sure kill?  How
    about behind the shoulder?
    
    What about snow?  Do coyotes follow set trails?  Will they follow
    a set pattern like deer _sometimes_ do?  The area I'm gonna hunt has
    had virtually no preasure, so that should work in my favor.  Again
    any info is apreciated.
    Thanks
      Jeff
    
                                                        

    I would go with the electronic call as one of my friends is a pelt
    hunter and uses one and has had great results. He's got one that
    looks like a little speaker with a nine volt battery attached. I
    guess it the dying rabbit call. Works great on fox and he's taken
    one coyote with it. He shoots them with a 22mag marlin bolt action.
    So you 222 with solid point bullets will do the trick....
    Good luck.........................................................
    
    sjn

    I once had the pleasure of using a electronic call on crows,I think
    in a matter of 5min. every crow in the county was buzzing my owl
    decoy.I am currently in the market of purchasing one and have found
    that a mail order company called the Sportsman's Guide has one
    available for $159.00 that weighs 13.5 lbs.its a rechargeable AC/DC
    game caller that comes with everthing you need including 2 tapes,one
    how to use the caller and one grown cottontail.They also carry a
    number of different tapes for $9.99ea. or two for $18. four for
    $32..The order # is G1380 and you can call them toll free at 
    1-800-328-7222 hours are 7am to midnight 7 days a week.They also
    have a tape on horn rattlin and deer calling I thought i would try
    this after the season just for kicks,i would hope to get some movies
    on the video camara.Oh yeah the Sportsmans guide accepts
    plastic,MC,VISA,AMER/EXPRESS,DISCOVER CARD.
    
    see ya,
    Rick..
    

    You don't need to get a head shots. The last one I got was shot
    about 6" in back of the front leg. So anywhere in the rib cage
    area will do. If you hit one in this area and he takes off, don't
    worry, he'll lay down within 25 yards or so, wait on em just like
    you would deer.
    
    Coyote don't realy follow set trails. They'll go anywhere they need
    to to find food. They tend to stay out of heavy cover, though. They
    will follow roads, fence lines and the edge of open fields. If your
    trapping those are the places to setup.

    Mark

    ps. Hagerty, this guy got me going again.  What's up this weekend
        with you ? What to go plink Coyotes ?

    Regarding the use of electronic calls...
      Some states expressly forbid the use of them, I'm not sure where
    you plan to hunt but you might want to check into it.  Another thing
    to keep in mind is the temperature.  If it is real cold, the tape
    unit will not run at it's proper speed and the perfect dying rabbit
    you heard at home might sound like a marching band in the field.
     We hunt these things in Vermont and, as has been said, almost anything
    will kill one. Your .222 should do just fine.
     Good shooting,
    
    -jro
    

    Another thing to add, Coyotes are LOADED with Fleas !! Take a trash
    bag with you to haul'em around in. I try to skin mine as soon as
    possible, becuase they are easier to skin out when warm. But I pay
    for it with the fleas.  The best thing to do is to let them sit
    and get cold, the fleas will leave looking for a warm body, which
    will be you if your close enough.

    Never used an Electronic call. (Dying rabbit in stero ?)
    Snow, if too deep they will hold up for a while.

    	Just for the sake of information,coyotes almost never kill deer
    or antelope,unless they come upon an old one,a cripple,or a very
    young one that they can steal away from the mother. Their main prey
    are rabbits,hares (jackrabbits) and small rodents. They have a
    reputation as calf or sheep killers,but my experiance suggests that
    most (but not all) of the calves that they get credit for killing
    were probably still-borne or sick. They will kill sheep if the
    opportunity presents itself. The main reason that mature,healthy
    deer or antelope are not threatened is that coyotes are not very
    big,and normally aren't pack hunters in the sense of wolves,so
    chasing these healthy animals down is a lot of work and,for the
    coyote,too dangerous. Rabbits are safer and easier,and therefore
    the prey of choice if they're available. That explains why the
    coyotes respond to a "dying rabbit" call.
    	In any case,they're crafty and survivors. It's not likely
    that they'll be hunted into extinction.
    	Another thing,someone mentioned not knowing what a wounded
    coyote will do. Generally,they'll just run,barring the possiblity
    of rabies or some such thing (in that case they're obviously
    dangerous even if not wounded). The really dangerous individuals
    are cross-dogs. Since domestic dogs can and will breed with coyotes,
    the half-breed offspring can and often are very dangerous. They
    can be bigger,and lack a lot of the fear of man that a coyote has.
    Something to bear in mind if your "coyote" doesn't look right and
    acts aggressive.
    
    	Good hunting,
    		George
    

    
    
       I went to a seminar on predator calling and the guy that was
    holding the seminar was from the mid-West. I asked him about 
    electronic callers and he said they work great, but they don't
    last long in the cold (batteries wear down quickly) so he
    recommended to either keep spares in the truck or use it sparingly.
    
       Another thing he said that using any type of call a coyote will
    come toward you (as the call imitates "Dinner") at a full run,
    and since most of New England is wooded he recommended a shotgun
    with #4 or #2, unless you can hit a running "dog" with a rifle
    with one shot, because you're certainly NOT gonna get another
    (they LEARN QUICKLY)...
    
         I have an electronic caller (maybe we can work a "Deal")?;-)
    
    
                I gotta get out myself, I guess...
    
    
                                Mike       

    The Eastern Coyote is a breed in itself.This has been proven from
    Biologist that have been studying this so called new breed in New
    England.The N.H. F&G has material available for the asking and a
    self addressed stamped envelope.The Coyotes were first noticed in
    the 1940's but not really looked at until the late 60's and thru
    the 70's.Biologists first thought these coyotes were interbreeding
    with the domestic dog this is how we began to call them COYDOGS
    but this is now ruled out.According to the biologists,the possibility
    of interbreeding does exist,but for the pups to survive is unlikly,the
    reason is the domestic dog bitch comes into heat and gives birth
    during the most harsh time of year,jan thru march,but the Coyote
    only gives birth during April/May,Mother Natures way of taken care
    of her own.I often wondered about males,I would think they would
    breed with coyote Females during their heat cycle,Oh well who knows,
    anyway also according to the biologists they say that these coyotes
    migrated from the west thru Canada and into New England,while in
    Canada they interbreed with the so called Canada Wolf and this is
    how they have the appearence of the Timber Wolf rather than their
    Western cousins.Though their size is half of the wolf they are as
    crafty and wise.The average weight is only 35-40lbs one was taken
    in Maine that weighed 60lbs a female to boot.Two years ago, a Maine
    Biologists tagged a young Male in the town of Jackman in August,The
    Coyote was taken somewhere in Vermont in Oct,so as you can see they
    do travel,a pair of breeding coyotes need 15 to 25 sq.miles of
    territory and will push off any intruder coyote if found.They seem
    to like the farm country and lowlands better than the big timber.
    Coyotes are Opportunists they have been seen feeding on roadkills,
    some livestock but mostly rodents,rabbits and so on.I agree that
    they have a bad reputation but should be considered a farmers friend
    rather than its foe.Coyotes, belive it or not eat other things to,such
    as Acorns,Beachnuts,Apples,Blueberrys,rasberrys and they love
    grasshoppers.In terms of the farmer killing off or over hunting
    this guy its very unlikly,The Western farmers have been trying for
    years without success but failed because of one thing,MOTHER NATURE
    takes care of her own,it seems the harder you hit them the more
    of them the following year,they have a built in offspring type alarm
    clock,if a high number are taken the females give birth to a high
    number of pups,if there is no causiltys then they will only produce
    what the land can sustain,kinda of a built in herd/pack managerment
    tool,pretty interesting stuff huh.Today the Eastern Coyote can be
    found from Maine all the  way into Rhode Island.The main reason
    is I feel Like Deer they have learned to co-exist with man and once
    a wild animal does that he will be around for a long time.To bad
    the Grizzley,Bighorns and others couldn;t be that way.Anyway I hope
    I have added some value to the subject and made some of you more
    aware that The Eastern Coyote is a unique preditor of which I consider
    Trophy Class for New England.
    
    Rick...........

    Rick,
      Thanks for the info.  When I lived in Maine I saw a couple "coydogs"
    that were shot while we were deer hunting.  It's interesting to
    hear that the biologists now discount that the theory of a coyote/dog
    cross.  The group (pack?) that I'm thinking of hunting are concentrated
    in a substantially populated area, which lends credence to the fact
    that they adabt well.  Last spring they _supposedly_ took over 30 lambs
    from one farm.  I wonder however, if domestic dogs helped with the
    predidation.  It's reassuring to hear that F&G Dept's are trying to dispell
    alot of the myths about these animals.  I'd like to bag one, but
    have no intentions of trying to "wipe them out".  I doubt anyway
    that I would be remotely succesfull if I did try, they seem to prosper
    no matter what man does to stop them.
    Jeff                                                 

    	Jeff, the techniques I have seen (heard of mostly) are akin
    to Bow Hunting for white-tails.... Camouflage,stands, etc. Baiting
    with carrion (natural feed) works I've heard.
    
    					Good luck, They're spooky and
    smart.......
    
    			Jack

    I plan to try coyotes in Vermont this spring, a combination of calling
    and bait, probably chicken livers or similar. I figure to set up
    in tall grass 75 yards from the edge of a pasture and put the bait
    10-15 yards from the woods. Scoped 7mm rifle with lit reticle, set
    at 2-3 power, 100 grain handloads. From sunset to dark. 
    
    In the October snowstorm, we went out after the snow and the farm
    was lousy with tracks. Not much deer sign. Our deer camp landlord
    has seen coyotes near his barn and in the fields the past few
    years. Coincidentally, the turkeys have become scarce in the area.
    Are coyotes known to prey on turkeys?
    
    Dana

    re: .15  yes Coyotes will take a turkey or two.
    
     My brother, in Mo., has more or less called in Coyotes using his
    turkey call. He was really hunting turkeys and Coyotes show up.
    He'll tell you that #4 shot works for Coyote :-)
    
    fyi Mo. had a harvest of 60,000+ turkeys this year (spring+fall)
    largest ever.

    re:10 "coyotes almost never kill deer..."
    
    Not sure if this a a true statement, as the latest copy of Sports
    Afield stated that there were 40,000 deer killed in Maine last year by
    coyotes/coydogs/wild dogs.  They were asking sportsman to hunt them
    and were offering info on hunting methods.
                                              
    My father-in-law (a dentist) never had shot a gun in his life...
    Last year he called me in the middle of the week (mid jan) and told
    me a pack of coyotes were running around in the orchard which surrounds
    his property (he actually owns 5 acres of the orchard which he leases
    back to them), anyways on saturday he calls and asks if I can come
    up and shoot them because they have killed 1 lamb and wounded another.
    I'm busy on Saturday but get a call that there are 3 sitting outside
    looking into sheep pen and can I come up and dispatch the b*stards.
    I go up but one of the dogs  had gotten loose and chased them away. I
    can see one out in the open but he's really to far for a clean shot
    (300 yards). My in-laws house has an attic window which is about
    50 ft up, in the back of the house and overlooks the orchard (great
    place to take them out from). I had to leave, but showed my father
    how to load/operate the 270 bolt, leave him bean bags, give 
    him a quick lesson on gun safety, as well as tell him where to aim, 
    should they come back. He says to leave it with him and if he see's 
    them he'll take a shot, "besides, he says you'll be up tomorrow 
    anyway for dinner, if they come back tomorrow you can take care of 
    them", his neighbor across the street has lost a couple of geese 
    and has hit 2 coyotes with his 223.
    
    Next morning I break my leg/ankle/tear ligaments and have to stay
    overnight at Emerson for surgery.... my father hammers 2 coyotes
    and missed a third.... both heart shots....  Not bad for someone who 
    had never picked up a gun before. The next week one of his patients
    (a police officer) has an appointment and hears the story and talks
    my father into buying a 6mm with a varmint barrel and a 4-12 scope. 
    
    Theres something ironic about this whole story, my in-laws give
    me all kinds of sh*t about deer hunting and how can i kill such
    a beautiful creature, now he's hooked on varminting... still snicker
    when I think about it.
    
    good luck, hope everyone takes out a couple, the deer have it hard
    enough as it is...
    
    Fra 
    
    Heard they were now back (snows back, their hungry)
    
    

    	Warning *** The Eastern Brushwolf alias "Eastern Coyote" and the
    fox (mostly RED) have been spreading MANGE within their species.
    The disease MANGE appears on the outer layer of the skin usually
    starting around the elbows and hind quarters, the skin in this area
    losses all fur and turns scabbed and tough. The animal in worst
    cases will have extreme hair losses, and usually under weight with
    an aroma of rotted/dead flesh. This past season I got my fist coyote
    a male around 35lbs (estimate) from the Barre area and was infected
    with MANGE around the hindquaters and elbows. I used rubber gloves
    to pick the animal and shove it in a hole I dug then covered it.
    This is the only way to prvent this disease from spreading. If you
    happen to take this infected animal home you are risking your dog
    and your family from getting the skin disease. Also a red fox female
    was taken in Boylston with a slight case of the manage. 
    
    Becarefull handling the Coyote and Fox and if infected please bury
    the Carcass and Hide therfore preventing spreading the disease.
    
                                                                  
    

    

    Well, my buddy and I are going out to try for some "dogs" tomorrow.
    I'm kinda psyched to get out, after reviewing these entries. Bought
    2 predator calls at the local sporting store during our lunch break,
    and spoke with the owner who has experience in hunting them. 
    
    I was surprised to hear that coyotes will reply to a predator call.
    He explained that they do this to try and establish dominance with
    whatever is "killing the rabbit". Has anyone else ever heard of
    this? 
    
    Let you know if anything happens!

      A few years back I was treated to the site of 4 coyotes hunting
    as a team.  I was camped in northern NH on a ridge that overlooked
    a valley with a large field on the opposite side.  Towards evening
    I saw the lead dog come out and it watched over the other 3 coyotes
    as they braided an overlapping pattern across the field which was
    a few weeks shy for cutting.  The "lead" animal didn't participate
    in the hunt; it just kept pace with the hunters and was probably
    providing protection by acting as a lookout.  They worked into the
    wind and in about 5 minutes they were out of site.  Too bad for
    me cause for once I didn't have my varmit rifle which back then
    was a permanent fixture in the truck before we had kids.  Anyway,
    about 20 minutes later all hell broke loose in the direction the
    coyotes had headed in (sounds of dogs fighting).  I don't know what
    they got into....... I wouldn't think that they would fight over
    a successful kill since they hunted so well together as a team.
    A friend suggested that they may have gotten into a fawn and the
    doe could have put up some defense (it was early June and fawns
    were probably dropping at that time).
    
    I've a friend who dairy farms in Irasburg VT.  One evening one of
    his cows didn't show up at the barn (she was ready to drop a calf).
    So he goes out and finds her being attacked by a group of coyotes.
    One dog was tearing at the cows throat while the other were eating
    the calf while it was coming out.  The calf was dead before Dave
    could chase off the coyotes.  I saw the cow later that year and
    could see the scars on it's neck.  Anyway, Dave sort of declared
    war on coyotes since then.  He's trapped some but he likes to bait
    them and shoot them with his .308 from the porch. 
    
    One time during a winter visit they forgot to let the cat in one
    night.  Poor cat had the scare of its life.  The next morning Dave
    and I went out and the tracks told the story.  The coyotes chased
    that cat around the house (up on the porch) and then the cat made
    a break for the barn and squeezed into a crack between the sill
    and the foundation.  Lucky for that cat, you could see where a
    coyote slid into the wall of the barn.                        
    
    Saw a western coyote once out in eastern Washington.  Had its winter
    coat.  Had sort of a brindle color to it (browns, greys, black,
    etc.)  The 4 eastern coyotes mentioned above were mostly light shades
    of brown (almost buff) but this was a summer coat.
    
    

    	That's really interesting. It appears that the Eastern coyotes
    are far more aggressive than the western ones. I know that a hungry
    coyote will sometimes try to get to a calf before the cow can stand,
    but nobody I've talked to has ever seen coyotes working in a pack
    and attacking a full grown cow. I wonder if the eastern critters
    might have some wolf or domestic dog in them?
    	re. the noise and barking you heard, it might have been a deer
    trying to drive them away. I saw a doe antelope tie into a big
    coyote one morning. She went at him feet first, and the dog tried
    to run. She nailed him a few times, and he managed to scramble
    to his feet and run about twenty feet. At this point,the doe
    caught him again, and pummeled him some more. This was repeated
    two or three more times until the coyote went over a rise and
    out of sight. The doe then wandered back to her original location.
    Although I didn't see one, I suspect that she had one or two fawns
    hidden nearby in the grass.
    	About coyotes and pets, cats and small dogs seem to be favored
    hors-d'oevres for both coyotes and mountain lions around here.
    
    	Coyotes are funny (and interesting) critters.
    
    		George
    

        I know of some guys who were hunting here up in Maine this year
    and they had shot two deer and a coyote. They had taken the loins
    out of the coyote and fried them has an appetizer for supper that
    night. Believe it or not they said it was almost like venison. They
    figured that probaly a good part of their intake of food was deer
    so why not. As long as you didn't think about it, they said it
    was quite tastefull.
    

In many parts of the world dog is considered a delicacy.  Coyotes are probably
close enough to dog that they taste pretty much the same.

Rich

    
    	For you Coyote experts out there, Do you have to consider wind
    direction ??  I've read articles that say they'll usually come in
    downwind.  Do any of you use cover scents??  Also, some of you have
    said that they don't like to go through the thick cover, then do
    you just get in a place where you can see really good, like a section
    of open hardwoods or along a grown-over fenceline looking out into
    a field??  I have a call and just ordered a snow camo suit and want
    to give it a try!!!  From reading here it sounds like it might get
    interesting.
    
    							- Rob
    

    
    
    	re .-1
    
    		Yes, you have to consider the wind direction. Always
    	sit with your back to the wind. I use fox scent only, but I
    have a "cover" scent of skunk essence, but I just can't bring myslf
    to use it ;-) As far as where to sit.... That's a good question??
    All the video's I've seen on 'Yote's are done out west and/or the
    midwest where it's "more" open. 
    
    	BTW Point of interest. Talked to a friend of mine from mid-state
    	NH (Trapper) and he said he'd give me his coyote pelts, as the
    prices this year are BAD. So don't plan on getting "rich" selling
    the pelts....

    
    
    				Good Hunting
    
    
    					~Mike~

    RE: -1 Pelt Prices:
    
     They are real BAD this year. Racoons are only going for ~$6.00...
    
     So, everyone go buy their SO's a fur coat this spring, to bring
    those prices up !!!  :-)

    
    
    	Re .-2 
    
    	Mike, Have you had some success hunting 'yotes' in your area?
    The Fox scent sounds logical, the Coyote would probably think a
    fox just grabbed a rabbit and would come to take it away!  Thanks
    for the tip;  have you been out yet ?
    
    - Rob
    

    
    
    	Re -.1
    
    		Rob, No I haven't had any success yet, but as I've
    been told it's like "fishing" somedays you get all kinds and you
    can't do anything wrong, and somedays you can't even get a "nibble".
    
    	I made a mistake when I said fox SCENT, I mean that I use fox
    URINE..
    
    	I've been out only once so far, as mostly on the weekends it's
    been to windy. I was told the BEST time is during a nice light snow,
    but the way it's looking we may not get any here in New England
    ;-) :-)
    
    
    
    					~Mike~

     Well it's been a couple of weeks.  Has anyone gotten out?  Any
    success.  I'm still planning to hunt the first half of March.  
    Hope we get a sustained snow cover through the month of February
    to help locate some consistant activity.  Been pretty warm in the
    subtropics of New Hampshire.
    
    -Dave

    I haven't been out yet either! I initially was waiting for the snow
    to come, and hunger to set in. At this point it doesn't look highly
    likely! 
    
    Can't get out this weekend,but maybe I'll get out on the following
    one!

    Yesterday, my wife and I spotted a dead coyote laying in the burm
    of Rt. 2 Eastbound between the Rt. 13 (Searstown) exit and the 
    Lancaster exit around 3:00. 
    
    It seemed much bigger than a typical Shepherd to me. First time
    I ever saw a coyote though. I don't think you could mistake 
    a Shepherd for a coyote if you got a good look though. Tail was
    very bushy too. Head and jaw were different from shepherd also.
    
    We were both surprised to see one in what is a fairly developed
    area.
    
    Anybody else spotting them in the Leominster/central Mass. area?
    
    Ed 

    re:.32
    
    A couple of years back my father-in-law had some problems with them....
    In fact, he and his neighbor both took a couple each, which were
    destroying their sheep and geese.
    
    they havn't had any problems lately but thats not to say the've
    left the area.
    
    fra
     

    I saw coyotes in Quabbin Reservoir 6 years ago (or was it 7?)
    
    Leominster isn't too far.

    Several ran in front of my buddy's pickup last week in Ayer.  There
    seems to be plenty of them around this area.
    
     -jro
    

    Saw one during bow season last year in Women's Federated in Petersham.
    I was amazed at how quiet it was at  what I would guess was close
    to full speed after it caught my scent.
    
    Jack

    WOW!  This is great.  I just found this "hunting" file today.
    
    This is one of many notes that I can really get into.  My name is
    Scott Horn and I work in Finance at the Phoenix Manufacturing Plant.
    I am a member of several hunting/wildlife organizations and one
    of them is the Phoenix Varmint Callers.  We meet monthly and have
    a hunt each month from Sept through April.  The hunts are contests
    actually and we give out trophys to the top three hunters/teams.
    The type of gun allowed is normally up to the individual, except
    once a year we have a pistol only hunt.  The winners are determined
    based on a point system: fox = 5, coyote = 10, bobcat = 50, bear
    and mountain lions are 100 points.  We also have trophys for top
    hunter of the year, etc.
    
    If anyone is ever in the Phoenix area and wants to go after some
    yote's call me at dtn 551-5797 or e-mail at PNO::HORN, I'll be 
    pleased to take you calling.
    
    I don't mean to be long winded, but here are some tips-of-the-trade
    that I don't mind sharing.     
    
    Weather effect:
    
    Watch your weather!  Dogs are most active before and after storms
    (like alot of game).  IF it's a nice day, the type that makes YOU
    feel lazy, chances are that the yotes are lazy and bedded.
    
    
    Time:
    
    Morning and evening are best, but when it's not warm or too nice
    a day I'll go non-stop.  Or until they stop, then I take a break
    until about 3:30 or so.
    
    
    Distance between stands:
    
    Depending on the lay of the land and weather (thus, how sound travels)
    I'll put .5 to 2+ miles between stands.
    
    
    Stand set up:
    
    Never let your truck be seen.  That means not only from where you
    end up sitting at, but from where the dogs COME FROM.  If they see
    your jeep/truck forget it.  
    
    Always sit facing away from aech other (remember BE SAFE).  Tell
    each other before you sit where you are going to park it and identify
    your shooting alleys.  I find more than 3 is too many.  If you have
    3, than put your caller in the center (and shooting away from the
    others) or setup in a triangle.
    
    Set up a signal system.  I use a signal at the end of the stand
    to let my hunters know that the stand is over.  I either make a
    "click" sound twice with my mouth or toot twice with my call when
    I (as the caller) end the stand.  Then I have the other hunters
    make the same two "clicks" to let me know that they do not see anything
    around them.  If one of the hunters doesn't signal, then I start
    calling again because that means that something is on the way in.
    
    The caller runs the stand!  When it's your turn to call, you pick
    stand, tell the shooters where to sit, etc.  But make sure all hunters
    know where everyone is at!!!
    
    Use the cover!  sit as far in the bush or cactus as you can or rock
    or tree trunk.  
    
    Above all, use the shadows.  NEVER sit in the sun light.  Less cover
    and shadow is much better than cover with sun light.
    
    
    Movement:
    
    Once the caller starts, NO ONE MOVES except your eyes (YES, only
    eyes) until the caller ends the stand.  This is real important when
    hunting cats (bob and lion).  They are real sly and use all the
    cover, thus you see only a few that you call in.  The less you move
    the better chance you have that they will move in and around you.
    
    Cammo:
    
    Total.  top to bottom, including you rifle and scope -- every inch,
    even the end of the barrel.
    
    
    Scent:
    
    Use fresh clothes whenever you can and use a cover scent.  This
    is the part that seperates the varmint hunters from the bowlers.
    We use a mix that you can buy from circe or make yourself--just
    don't use the blender for anything else! (urine, butt glands, 
    dirt and straw or grass, then blend.  put some on your hat and
    boot or pant) Trust me, it works.
    
    
    Types of calls:
    
    I prefer open reeds.  But my call box (a fishing tackle box) has
    them all.  And I switch around when my favorite isn't working.
    
    
    Coyote barks:
    
    Learn What their different barks are.  I've called them back just
    making a challenge bark (no call, just me).  Knowing their barks
    can tell you if they know what you are or if they don't when they
    bark when you walk into your stand or during the stand.  
    
    
    Coyote habit:
    
    They almost always leave using the same route that they came in
    on.  Unless you spook them (they know that you saw them) or you
    shot at them.  
    
    Calling pattern:
    
    Real important--keep calling even after you shoot. Two reasons why:
    1. you might get a double or triple at one stand.  2. if you miss
    your shot, you could call the same dog back in.
    
    I start with a few, short, soft wimpers.  This way you don't scare
    the daylights out of the dogs that are sleeping 10 feet away, rather
    they come right in.  Then I pause for about 30 seconds and go to
    it.  I start out with medium intensity and volumn, then build up,
    then medium, the cut loose--like someone is ripping my guts out,
    then I mellow to a wimper and close with a few soft wimpers that
    make ya cry just to hear them.  You have to be an actor!  Put your
    mind in the head of the rabbit or deer that is getting eaten by
    the coyote or lion.  Think your call out ahead of doing it.  It's
    ok to use the same pattern as long as it keeps working.  when you
    stop getting dogs and cats in change the pace and/or call.
    
    Try new things!  One day i was calling and i called in a hawk. 
    Well after the hawk scretched in comes this yote.  So, now and then
    I'll blow my hawk call then wait a minute (the time it would take
    for the hawk to land on the rabbit) then I call like that hawk is
    ripping my guts out.  You see, coyotes know what a hawk scretch
    means ( when a hawk, owl, eagle scretches game and birds freeze.
    It makes it easier for the hawk--good for the hunter to remember
    when you have a moving target and a hawk call handy).
                        
    
    Length of call time:
     
    15 - 25 min for fox and coyote
    
    45+ for bobcat
    
    1 hr to 1.5+ hrs for bear and lion
    
    
    Well, I hope that this info will help someone.  If you have any
    questions on anything else about calling, call me (ha) or use e-mail
    or better yet - put your question right here.
    
    By the way, I use a custom .22-250 700 bdl Rem action on a Brown
    stock with a 6.5 x 20 Leupold scope (I don't recommend this much
    power, it's all fur when they are in close).  I also use a .357,
    .44, or a 12ga from time to time.
    
    A good day is 10 dogs, poor is 2-3, best is 24.  longest shot is
    about 350 yards and the shortest is 6.5 feet on a dead run in-bound.
    I like to see how close they will come in -- I had one sniff my
    boot once (that will test your nerves!).  My hunting buddy took
    hiswife once. when she turned her head to see what she heard---
    she was nose to nose!!!  She thought it was a thrill and still hunts.
    It is a THRILL!!!
    
    GOOD CALLING!
    
    
    

      I witnessed something a few weeks back that I'd never seen before.
    There were 14 deer (whitetails) milling about feeding on alfalfa
    in the late afternoon... common enough sight for me when visiting
    family out west.  Suddenly the scattered deer bunched up in a tight
    group with the youngsters in the center.  I then noticed 2 coyotes
    approching the deer.  Well the deer seemed to bunch up even tighter
    as this buck steps out of the group and confronts the coyotes. 
    Now the buck was a 4x5 about 185# (definitely not the boss of the
    area) and he charges at the coyotes and tries to put his head into
    one of them.  Well, the coyotes retreated.  With each charge the
    coyotes would back off until the buck had them in the timber and
    I couldn't see what was happening.  The buck went into the timber
    after them.  Well a couple of minutes went buy and I heard those
    coyotes let loose a howl or two and that buck came flying out of
    the timber like a lightening bolt.  He joined the rest of the deer
    and they all bounded out of there. 
    
    I was really surprised to see the coyotes so early in the day
    and equally surprised to see them approach the deer (unless the
    deer were in there path).  Plenty of mice and the fields were being
    cut at the time.  Funny as hell to see that buck come flying out
    of there....
    
    Dave

    .38
    
    What you saw is not uncommon, coyotes trying to take down a deer (young
    or older).  Coyotes take alot of antelope as well.
    
    We have a type of antelope that was transplanted from Texas that were 
    not too use to coyotes (the ranchers in that part of Texas have shot most
    or all of them, from planes).  Well, Arizona has alot of coyotes.  Those
    doggies took about 22 antelope the first few weeks.  You can drive
    right up to them.  Just not all that bright.  But they are learning
    fast (what's left of them anyway).   
    
    As for the time of day, you can find them up and about anytime day and
    night.  just like you pet dog Rover.  When I go out hunting them
    (using varmint calls) I call all day long.  And I get them in at all
    times of the day.  There are times when mid-day calling is better than
    others.  example, a cold day, after or before a storm, etc.  they are
    up and hunting! all day. 
    
    You were lucky to get to watch that though.  I've seen coyotes go after
    antelope and bobcat chase jack's, one time each.  they were thrills
    too.
    

    just found this notes file.I,ve been calling coyotes and foxes for
    about eight or nine years and coon for three.Got hooked on it real
    quick.coyotes are the ultimate preditor and I,d rather hunt them than
    anything else.I took two this year in some new areas I found.My old
    spots didn't pay this year.They answered the call,but couldn,t get 
    any shots.I either use my shotgun or my thompson contender pistol
    with the 222 rem.barrel.I'm looking into getting a 10 ga. but I
    still haven,t decided what I want.I just had two come back from
    getting dressed,can,t wait to see how they came out.One was a 42lb.
    female I took with the pistol,she was taken at about 10 feet and was 
    in the company of a male,which I couldn,t get a shot at since the
    pistol is a single shot.I use all kinds of calls,but prefer the single
    reed.I had five of them come in voice howling,but they hung up about
    two hundred yards out,tried switching over on the calls,but they won,t
    move,them they started that quick bark/yip,that always tells me that
    they know somethings up and it's time to slide out and try another day.
    I didn't get out to much this past season,but when I did there was
    plenty of good sign around in my usual spots and I picked up some
    new places to try.I do nuisance wildlife control so I get around the
    woods quite abit and a lot of farmland.   love them yodel dogs
    

    Well I killed my first Yote...  Kinda a mangy looking critter this
    particular one.  probably weighed between 30-40 lbs.
    
    I was bowhunting in Woodstock, VT using a portable treestand. This one
    was a female and just happened to cruise by at about 25 yards. 
    Needless to say it was her last cruise... let her have it!  She hit the
    ground in a heap and expired within minutes, what a racket she made.
    Why is it that you see everything except what is is your hunting... ;^)
    
    Next day I see another one at around 7:15 am, this one was much bigger
    and had a beautiful coat. It stopped about 40 yards out (or so I 
    thought) I just missed, arrow went under its chest. Sunday Morning I
    had another one under my stand but had no chance for a shot.  Now these
    sightings were all in different locations.  I've been hunting VT now 
    for about 12 years and this is the first time I've seen so many
    Coyotes.
    
    The other guys in the camp have seen them occasionally but not like
    this.  They must be faring well. 
    
    Fra

    Fra,
    	Were you using any kind of scent like doe in heat scent? I'm
    wondering if something you were wearing (scent) was luring them in. 
    
    tom
    

    As a matter of fact...
    
    Yes, I was using Tinks 69 this weekend, I notice some scrapes and 
    figured the time was right, obviously I was wrong ;^) as I didn't 
    see anything close enough for a shot, cept for the coyotes... 
    I used fox as a cover scent also.
    
    I may be wrong, but I don't believe they were attracted to the scent,
    cause they missed it in each occasion.  They all passed by it (30 yds)
    and never batted an eyelash.
    
    Fra

    Did you eat the "Yote". If not what the hell were you shooting at it
    for? Was it attacking you? Was it running deer? Or was this just for
    the fun of it, to keep your eye sharp? I didn't realize they were such
    a threat that they needed to be thinned out yet. It seems they had just
    started their comeback in the past 3-5 years.
    
    

    re .44
    	In .41 the title implied he wants the pelt. 

    RE:.44
    
    I WAS KEEPING MY EYE SHARP!  I start off with big animals the size of
    coyote then try and work down slowly to say chipmonk size... then I 
    figure i'm warmed up enough for my deer to come by.  At this point I 
    ring the bell and they come running in.
    
    Are you serious?
    
    They are varmints, pests that the farmer wants nothing to do with. They
    kill his livestock, and in general are useless. Not to mention that
    there is no closed season on them.  I would shoot anyone that came
    within range.  What I or anyone else decides to do with it should be of
    no concern to you.  For the record I was planning to have the hide
    tanned.
    
    Fra

    Re: I would shoot anyone that came in range.
    
    Hey Fra, either there is a space missing between "any" and "one", or
    I'm going to make a point to "stay out of range" of you in the future!
    
    ;*)

    Whoops, sorry Dave
    
    That is supposed to say ANY ONE (coyote). Course then again, I could
    start off with bigger practice targets... ;^)
    
    Fra
    

    While I personally wouldn't shoot any animal I that I would not eat,
    there is nothing wrong, unethical or illegal about shooting coyotes.
    
    I don't see a problem.
    
    Mark.

    Again I would question why someone would question the shooting of this
    here varmit coyote . Way up here in Maine boonies we take all of we can
    draw down on . 

    Re. Shooting a coyote...
    
    		The area that I hunt in Vermont has a good population
    	of Coyote's. If you walk in a few ridges it's darn right
    	spookey as there are no birds, rabbits, squirrels etc. I
    	tend to believe that this is due to the Coyote population.
    
    		I would not hesitate to harvest one as they are considered
    	varmits with an open season.
    
    		I would not chastize anyone from shooting one with a Bow,
    	Rifle or handgun. I'd thank him.
    
    	Red  16 more work days left before I head up younder.

    MPGS::GIFFORD
    
    It would be nice if you would sign in (note #6 "who are you") and let
    us know who you are, where you come from, and what you expect to get
    out of this file.......
    
    Dave

 Seems to me that as coyotes are quickly becoming a problem with regard to
their population in So NH as well as other places, it is hardly a problem to
trim the level of these predators. I can't believe the number of tracks
I saw last year where I was deer hunting. The conservation officers I talked to
said that in more than one case, a guy tagged his deer and went to get help for
the drag, only to return to find his deer chowed upon. That coupled with the
number of tracks and the farmers who've been having problems with coyotes and
barnyard animals makes me think they are of sufficient number to make hunting
them beneficial to the ecosystem.

 the Doctah

    
    	I think Mr Gifford is an Anti-Hunter that has invaded our file
    to stir things up...... Come on Mr Gifford, fess up!!
    
    - Rob
    

    Re .53
    
     Last fall while hunting deer in Maine I ran into an old trapper who
     was draggin out a good size Coyote. I got to talking to him about the
     critters, and he suggests that If you have to leave any deer in the
     woods for what ever reason, make certain that you leave a sweater or
     a jacket covering the carcass. He claims the cayotes will leave the
     deer alone as the sweter will be saturated with human scent. He
     claimed that the animals are extremly wary of humans. Sounds logical!
    
     /mike
    
    

re: SKIVT::WENER                                          
>                      -< Nothing wrong with takin 'Yotes >-
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    
>    	I think Mr Gifford is an Anti-Hunter that has invaded our file
>    to stir things up...... Come on Mr Gifford, fess up!!
>    
>    - Rob
    
    
    On the contrary, granted I haven't hunted in years, I am far from
    Anti_any_use_of_firearms. I just can't see killing something I'm not
    going to eat. I've said in another note either in here or the Firearms
    conference, that if the animal is threatening me or is destroying my
    property or livestock then I would eliminate it. I wouldn't shoot it
    "just to keep my eye sharp" or for the pelt. But that's just my
    opinion, and you know what they say about opinions. To each his own.
    
    If the 'Yotes are truely a problem as some of the other  noters have
    stated then by all means thin them out, but if they are being shot just
    because some doesn't like them or considers them useless then I don't
    agree with them.
    
    I used to hunt deer in the Bradford, Vt. area many years ago and also
    in an area of southwestern N.H. I can't remember what the nearest town
    was but I enjoy hunting, or at least I used to. Like I said I haven't
    hunted in years (close to 15). Lately though I have gotten the urge to
    get back out into the woods and give it another go.
    
    Let me assure you that if I saw a 'yote or group of them running deer
    or destroying someones livestock I wouldn't hesitate to blow them away.    
    
    I have to admit when I first hear about "hunters" killing animals other
    than what I would consider "food" I tend to get a little testy. I
    appologize if I have offended anyone. But I can see how Anti-hunters
    can consider some hunters as blood-thirsty killers. Granted they don't
    look at the conservation aspect of hunting but at face value most
    "varment" or "pest" hunting just looks like killing for the sake of
    killing.
    
    Well down off the box again.
    
    Cowboy

    These statements about coyotes eating your deer if you leave it, are
    contradictory to the facts about predators. Coyotes, foxes, and
    other type predators will not usually eat a dead animal. They avoid
    a dead animal for they don't know if it died of disease. Now perhaps
    if there is fresh blood it is different. However when I have shot
    pigeons or thrown out the carcass of a pheasant I have shot in the 
    woods, behind my house, the carcasses stay their for weeks without
    being touched. Eventually crows, turkey vultures will eat it, but
    the fox and coyotes that live there won't.

    I had a live pheasant that a fox got even though I had thrown out a
    couple of dead pheasants that I had breasted out. The fox went right
    past them and got into my pen and took the live pheasant. he never came
    back for the dead birds.

    Also, coyotes feed mostly on rodents. They can only kill a deer if it
    is week or injured, and even at that it is done when they're in a pack.
    As far as live stock goes, the most they can handle by themselves is
    chickens or perhaps a lamb. They definitely cannot take down a cow.

    In my own opinion, if the animal has no value to you other than a 
    trophy to hang on the wall, I can't see killing it. That coyote has
    as much right, and today perhaps more of a right being in the woods
    than you do. I can't buy killing them unless there is a population
    problem. For most of N.E. that is not the case however.

    Jim

    Mr. Gifford I can assure you that I was not just "keeping my eye sharp"
    this if you will recall was your remark, or taking them only for the 
    hide, although if that were the case I would not feel badly about it.  
    I was told as were the rest of our group to drop any and all coyotes 
    we see roaming the farm.  The Farmer has had many runin's with them as 
    well as alot of livestock damage. We hunt his land, and comply with his
    wishes.
    
    I have seen first hand the damage they can and will do if left
    unchecked, this past summer my inlaws lost a prize ram do to them, as
    well as geese and lambs.  That in my book is more than sufficient
    cause to cull them whenever possible.  That being the case, I don't 
    feel compelled to have to answer to you.
    
    There were 40+ replys to this note prior to my entry, why all of a
    sudden are you stirring up trouble... if Coyote hunting does'nt suit
    you then hit next reply and skip over the note.  There are those of us
    who enjoy it, it is legal, not unethical and is done one on one.
    
    You say you would kill one if it was chasing deer, does this apply to
    dogs also?  SO now that you have a reason to kill them it's ok?  My
    reason is not good enough???  Hypocrisy at its finest.
    
    Fra

    I must disagree about the statement concerning them not feeding on dead
    animals . A common practice with dairy farms is the discarding of dead
    calves and cows over the winter til spring when they can be burried .
    These meat piles attract a lot of coyotes , one of the top coyote
    hunters in Maine that lives in Stratton , Me uses road kills for bait
    all the time . his input to me is that deer and rabbits are the best
    for coyotes ( he baits them on the lakes during winter) 
    
    In Northern maine it is very common that if you leave a gut pile on the
    ground it will be gone vvery very  soon with a lot of yote tracks and
    raven feathers. Point is at least up here the coyote will do a number
    on any dead meat left in the woods or near the woods .
    
    Another interesting thing is that when we hunt the North woods during
    black powder season (usually 1st week in Dec) we find the deer
    beginnning to yard up and the coyotes are right there with them .
    
    Al
    

People hunt for different reasons. As long as they do it in a safe and 
legal manner we should support them.

"I eat what I kill" argument has been used here a lot. I use it too. But
in reality it does not mean that much. Hunting is not the most efficient
way to get food. If you are hungry there are far easier methods. You can
buy venison or anything else without having to go through all the expense
and the hassle of hunting. A person hunting for a pelt has just as valid
a reason for hunting as thos eof us who hunt formeat.

    RE: KNGBUD::LAFOSSE -< don't put words in my mouth >-
    >-------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >I was told as were the rest of our group to drop any and all coyotes 
    >we see roaming the farm.  The Farmer has had many runin's with them as 
    >well as alot of livestock damage. We hunt his land, and comply with his
    >wishes.
    
    I obviously didn't have all of the facts in this case before opening my
    big mouth. I appoligize. 
        
    >That in my book is more than sufficient cause to cull them whenever 
    >possible.  
    
    I agree.
    
    >That being the case, I don't feel compelled to have to answer to you.
    
    Nor do I expect you to "answer to me". 
    
    >You say you would kill one if it was chasing deer, does this apply to
    >dogs also?  
    
    Yes.
    
    >SO now that you have a reason to kill them it's ok?  My reason is not 
    >good enough???  
    
    The note I responded to didn't mention any "reason" other than
    harvesting a pelt. There was no mention of the farmer asking to have
    them "taken care of". I have said that for those exact reasons I too
    would eliminate them. As far as I'm concerned (which really doesn't
    matter) your reasons for killing the 'Yote are fine.
    
    
    >Hypocrisy at its finest.
    
    I resent this, I'm far from perfect but I don't think I'm a hypocrit.
    I've said time and again that given sufficient reason I'd blow the
    sucker away, but it has to be a Good reason in My mind, not just
    killing for the sake of ridding the land of a creature I don't
    particularly like.
    
    Cowboy
    
    Fra

      I know for a fact that foxes will eat carrion.  When I use to trap as
    a kid we set around dead farm animals.  I have also heard that the
    coyotes feed on the road kill deer that are collected and dumped on
    the Quabbin in the winter.  The F&G place them there for the eagles.
    
    Jeff

 Hey Fra-

 It sounds like you really took Giff's note to be personal. I didn't read it
that way.

 Looks like some of us need to get out in the woods. :-) :-)

 The Doctah   (waiting for Nov 7th)

    OK, I'm gonna look up that article in the Mass Wildlife Magazine, on
    Coyotes. I'll try to put it in here.


    Jim

    
    I read an article in Readers Digest awhile back on Yodel dogs in the
    north east U.S.A., was very interesting.  From what I gathered from the
    article, Coyote are very adaptable animals as far as climate, ranging,
    food etc.  
    
    One farmer in particular had a problem with the yotes dining on his 
    livestock in a outer field.  After he took care of that problem he said
    the Coyoties became bolder by making moves on his poultry that were
    right near the house.  Finally he popped a few with his rifle and
    called in a trapper to bag the others.  The trapper baited the traps,
    so the Coyotes will chow on whats available to them.  This was in
    Maine.
    
    -Kendall  

    	You'll have to excuse Fra. It's the rut and he's having problems
    locating the does, They just seem to bypass his scrapes an he's getting
    touchy, very touchy. Lack of does does this every now and then.
    
    	;^)
    
    	Sorry Fra. the devel made me say it ;^)
    
    	Steve

    
    	As another fact I'd like to add to this discussion:  Coyotes eat 
    deer, plain and simple!  That is a myth that they only eat rodents.
    Coyotes will seek out fawns in the early summer and kill/eat as many  
    as they can find.  They will also feed on them in the late winter as
    someone else suggested.  
    	I am hearing increasing reports of fawn carcasses being found in
    the woods as of the last few years.  As a matter of fact, one DMU in 
    Vermont is (and I'll quote the F&G) "Not rebounding as well as other
    DMU's in nearby areas from the heavy doe harvests of the early 80's"
    They cited the alarming increase in the coyote population as a cause
    for this.  The coyotes are eating all the fawns before they are big
    enough to be able to run from them.      The Deer mgmt unit (DMU)
    in question is in Addison County.
    
    - Rob
    

    re:.63 et all...
    
    I apologize for the flame-a-grams... I was kinda taken back by the
    verbal barrage for killing a Yote...  I enjoy this file because I 
    can note with other hunters about field experiences and not feel 
    like I have to justify everything I do. With 40+ previous replys
    about taking Yotes prior to my own, I was insulted for being 
    lambasted because I took one (by legal methods).
    
    Definately need to hit the woods...  
    
    Fra
    
    

    What is meant when the regulations state that killing coyotes in NH
    requires "sealing"?
    
    Mark.

    I think we all need a week off in the woods......
    
    Red
    

 That means you take the carcass to a conservation officer, and they put a state
seal on it. (I think).

 The Doctah

    usually the seal is put on the hide. It is very similar to
    the seals used on deer when checking it in at a deer station.
    
    On deer they attach a metal ban on the leg I beleive.
    
    Many furs require sealing before they can be sold... It is a way
    of keeping track of the harvest and I beleive a game management
    tool.
    
    Bear

    I was just speaking with a woman who owns the large farm in Monkton 
    Ridge next to the fire house.  Her son counted 21 coyotes next to the 
    pond beside her barn, where the coyotes finished off all the remainder 
    of the ducks they have raised for a number of years. 
    
    This is also in Addison County.  
    
    They hear the yipping of the coyotes every night as they come in from 
    the swampy area way in back of the pastures. 
    
    Nancy

    That means that you are supposed to take a needle and thread and close
    up it's butt hole.  That way it won't dribble poop all over your car
    seat.
    
    I know, I know......That was bad, but I couldn't resist.  This file has
    become real serious lately, so I thought someone (not just any coyote)
    might get a laugh.
    
    Desert Dog

    Jim,
    
    	I'm sorry, but you really need to get out of the library and into
    the woods or desert more often.  I'm sure you had good intent and the
    folks in the Mass. Game and Fish Dept. had good intentions as well
    when they published their article which they probably researched
    thoroughly in their coyote.101 class and that may work for the dogs 
    back east, BUT................ That is not the way it works here in the 
    West.  
    
    	I have seen yotes take down both deer and antelope.  I have had
    many ranchers show me signs of coyote at the sight of a kill.  I know
    of several times where the coyotes have come in and eaten from the gut 
    piles that I left behind.  Lions are also know to do that as well.  But
    a lion will prefer the carcass.  Yes coyotes eat mice, but they do
    enjoy rabbits, ducks (as someone else mentioned), quail, scraps at a
    dump, etc.  Like the Hawks, Ravens, Eagles, etc., a coyote is just
    another lobster of the desert/mountain.
    
    	Now that I've blown off some steam, I'm thinking to myself -- I
    hope I haven't been too hard on this person and I hope I haven't been
    too offensive (a little doesn't hurt).  I just get a little tight when
    I hear things said as fact when they aren't 100% correct.
    
    Desert Dog  -- getting ready for an elk hunt in 2 weeks ( I have many
    spotted, 8x6, 7x6, about 9 6x6's and some small ones (5 or less))

    I was sitting in the CXO1 cafeteria this morning at 9 and I saw
    2 yotes cross the road walking towards CXO2. Its great to see 
    wildlife so close to the buildings. Besides yotes there are plenty
    of deer around here. Since I got skunked this year I think I'll
    hunt after work next year.... Just kidding.
    
    JC

> Its great to see 
> wildlife so close to the buildings.

	Sure is, John.  Leaving yesterday about 2:45, I saw a huge buck laying
	under some pines on the hillside overlooking the drainage area on the
	east side of 01.  Looked rather comfy.

	AA

    Well, I finally got around to looking up some info on coyotes, and 
    well, I have to rescind my re:57. I other words I'm eating my words.-:)

    I couldn't find the Mass Wildlife article on the eastern coyotes that I 
    originally had, but I found a report from the Mass. Audubon Society that 
    confirms much of what is said about coyotes killing deer, livestock and 
    rodents. They'll eat carrion as well for they are both a predator and
    scavenger. They'll eat dog and cat food and the cat itself if you leave
    them out  as well.

    This is a summary of what the report says.

    An Adirondack study found that snowshoe hare followed by white-tail
    deer, red squirrels and a variety of small rodents were the predominant
    food of coyotes. They also eat berries and insects and raccoon if the
    opportunity exist.

    Energetic studies of captive coyotes indicate that a twenty eight pound
    coyote will require an annual consumption of 8 deer, 105 hares, or 4800 mice in 
    order to meet minimum energy demands.  

    Livestock is another source of food, and the coyote has adapted well to
    living close to man. However the report says that it is not clear to
    what extent the damage to live stock is a direct result of coyotes.
    From 1980 to 1986 there were thirty three recorded coyote depredations 
    by coyote that the author of the article investigated. Seventeen
    attacks on sheep, ten on calves or heifers, and the remainder involved
    chickens, rabbits, goats and pigs. Most of the reports were after the
    fact and could not be field checked.  This however, doesn't give the whole
    picture, because many attacks are not reported.

    A study done in Iowa indicates that dogs were more responsible for
    livestock kills than coyotes. But damage by both was significant.

    There is much more to the article than what I have time to type, but
    this is the gist of it.

    Jim

    soooo, basically I am to assume I can kill them now, and have a 
    clean conscience about it, and can write notes and not be reprimanded
    for using them as target practice, correct?  ;^)
    
    couldn't resist...
    
    Fra

    RE_79
    Yeah, Fran, you can killem. And I don't mind the nut busting either -:)
    
    
    Jim

 Thanks for resolving this, Jim. It's not that fun to say "I screwed up."
You have my respect.

 The Doctah

    If your "local", freeze em'. I'll pick them up.Thats if there not
    peppered with holes..

    
    Just read an interesting article regarding eradication programs aimed
    at predators.
    
    
    Here is a little info:
    
    The Coyote has been successful in resisting control operations because
    it responds to empty territory by increasing it reproductive rate.  In
    short, coyotes respond to persecution by making more coyotes.  You can
    kill coyotes, but it will have little bearing on the long range problem
    of reducing livestock predation by the animals.
    
    Your never going to eliminate the coyote, what you want to do is
    control him so he dosn't affect your livlyhood.
    
    Perceptions continue to die hard among a good part of the population.
    For instance, many sportsman have called for predator control as a
    quick fix for declining waterfowl populations.  Biologists note that
    predation of waterfowl has increased as farming has become less
    diversified and wetlands have vanished.  Both phenomena have reduced
    prey available to predators and caused them to increase their predation
    on waterfowl.
    
    When coyotes were drastically reduced during the 1930's and 40's, the
    red fox population exploded, and still remains high.  Foxes eat far
    more ducks than coyotes do, should we now reduce the number of foxes?
    The result could be more ground squirrels and skunks, two other
    predators of nesting waterfowl, which the coyote also kept in check.
    
    Unlike wolves, coyotes are spectacularly successful omnivores, they eat
    grasshoppers, watermelon, mice, sheep, cat, dogs and deer.  They'll
    also eat skunks, bobcats, ground squirrels, and foxes, all of which
    increase in population when coyotes are removed.  People who are
    keeping an eye on the plummeting duck numbers should keep this fact in
    mind.
    
    Some hunters in some states claim that coyotes are thinning the deer
    herd and should be reduced...  whos right???
    
    The balance of nature is something we must maintain, were just
    now beginning to realize how intricate this ecosystem is and hopefully
    we can/have learned from our mistakes in the past.
    
    Fra

    
    re .83
    
    Nice to see someone thinks along my lines in regards to the predators.
    Good note.
    
    
    Kevin

    Speaking of predators, I was driving my daughter to school this
    morning, when I noticed a red fox curled up at the edge of the woods.
    I stopped and backed up to it.  It was curled up soaking up the morning
    sun.  It stood up when I backed the truck next to it (it was maybe 20
    feet away) walked a few feet in the woods, then came back and laid down
    in the same spot. 
    
    What a nice way to start the day and my 5 year old daughter got a
    thrill out of it as well.
    
    Mark,
    

 I wonder if it was diseased. They don't usually seem to just hang out like
that.

There was an article in the Colorado Springs Gazette-Telegraph about
a group of ranchers/farmers in Southeastern Colorado who were considering
organizing a competition for hunting and killing coyotes.  They cited
the prairie dog hunt at Nutria and were wanting to pattern their event
after that.  They were talking about having two man teams with an
assigned guide on assigned properties.  There would be cash prizes to
the winning teams.  They also went on record as saying the coyotes
were a real problem in that part of the state.

I'm entering this as best I remember.  If I've made a mistake or omitted
any relevant information, please correct me.


Jerry

    re: .86, I didn't notice anything wrong with the fox.  It walked
    normally and it's coat was in very good shape.   I didn't think the
    behavior was that unusual.  It's the 2nd time I've watched a fox from
    the vehicle at close range.  They live in populated areas and learn
    that they are in no danger from people in cars.
    
    Mark
    

    I saw a fox pup on the side of the road, less than 1/2 mile from the 
    plant up here, a few years back.  I stopped, rolled down the window
    and made a few "noises" (which I can't describe with my keyboard)
    and the pup walked up to the car....then ran away.  Seems like they
    can be rather curious when they want to be.
    
    I'm sure mom wasn't too far away...
    
    dave  

    re: foxes close to the road....
    
      A few years ago there was a fox den on a little knoll in the field
    beside the beaver pond on the west side of the plant. This was no more
    than 100 yds from a fairly well travelled road (Kimball Ave, for the
    locals). On nice sunny mornings, you could see the pups and mom sunning
    themselves and generally playing around. Didn't see any around there
    this year, but then again, I have been coming in for 6:00am for the
    past year.
    
      Of course, this is not to mention the Coyote that has been
    terrorizing the runners on our "track" out behind the plant. 
    
    -Ron-

      My mother-in-law was a farmer for many years.  She hung her clothes 
    on a clothesline by the kitchen door and was telling me that the foxes 
    used to play with the clothes on the line.  
    
      Couldn't explain why (wind blowing??) or whether they were just 
    playing.... (practicing for catching a moving bird, perhaps?)
    
    ;)
    

    Someone might find this interesting, I did.
    I was driving through Wayland, MA on RT27, and off to the side of the
    raod, barely into the woods on an old RR bed, I spotted something. At
    first I thought "nah, it's nothing, must be a dog", then as I passed
    it I saw clearly that it was a coyote, undoubtedly ! He was just
    standing there, jogged a step or two as I passed, but was still there
    as I kept going. This was right around 12:00 pm, Sunday afternoon. He
    wasn't more than about 50 feet away. I was surprised, because I know
    they are around Mass, but I somehow didn't imagine them to be in
    Wayland.
    
    
    				Steve

    their out on the cape!!! what makes you think wayland is so absurd...
    ;^)
    
    Friends of my inLaws were telling us last weekend of one that was
    sighted in Welsley, eating out of trash barrels...  it's getting 
    dangerous...
    
    ... Swifty is almost ready for his debut... ;^)
    
    Fra

    Had one im my back yard at 7am last Sunday in Fitchburg upper 
    cleghorn are near RT2 and Oakhill RD.
    
    Bill

    Fra,
    
      RT2 and Oakhill rd.? HMMMMM
    
    Kevin

    HUNGIE!!!   :^)
    
    Whatcha doin saturday??? ;^)
    
    Fra
    

    Shot a nice Yote yesterday afternoon (4:20 PM) 37# male... very grey.
    They've been hitting the baits hard, and yesterday after freshening em
    up, i sat in my blind and waited out the daylight... sure enough here
    come, not one, but two yotes cruising through a mowing headed straight
    for the goodies.  lost sight of the 1st one so i bore down on the
    second. after the shot the one that had gotten outa sight came flying
    back up the mowing hell bent for leather. I had already bolted the gun,
    I swung on him but missed.  Makes my realize I really need some
    practice at running shots, course then again, the scope was on 9x...
    :^)
    
    I was using the .270 (my Swift is in the shop having the trigger
    adjusted) needless to say it worked.
    
    Fra

 What do you do with the dead 'yote? Do you skin 'em, leave 'em where they
drop or what?

    why does it seem like everytime I talk yotes I have people questioning
    my motives or my ethics...
    
    I took it home and skinned it, i'm tanning the hide and mounting the
    head.  i'm chopping the carcass up and using the entrails/meat
    for additional coyote bait.  I kept the bladder and bottled the urine
    for scent posting.
    
    If i didn't have to turn the head into the F&W dept. i'd make necklaces
    with the teeth... hows that for total use of the thing.
    
    Fra
    
    ps, why do you ask???

     Fra,
    
    Like .98, I too was curious what one would do with a yote once you shot
    it. Remember I questioned your motives once before, I'm not doing that
    anymore, the motive really, as far as I'm concerned, has nothing to do
    with it. But like I said, I was curious what happens next. I'm sure
    there are some people who might even eat the meat. Who knows, it might
    be good, maybe a little stringy but might be tastey.
    
    So far I've only seen one yote, I live in East Brookfield Ma,
    (sturbridge area) and haven't seen any others since that one last
    summer. Where are you hunting them? Are they mostly in the western part
    of the state?
    
    Cowboy

    I'm hunting in the general area of sterling/princton/leominster which
    is much further east than Brookfield.  Don't have to go to the western
    part of the state to find coyotes, their basically everywhere.  For the
    most part their almost exclusively nocturnal, but depending on food
    availability, they will come out during daylight.
    
    You may have only seen one, but that dos'nt mean their not around.
    The're out there and in pretty startling numbers.
    
    re:.98  still wondering what it is exactly that your driving at...
    I would have thought that based on the last episode of "coyote ethics"
    way back in reply's .40-.70 or so, (which you were a part of) that you 
    would have realized why I hunt them and what I do with them.  Obviously 
    I'll have to be more specific in any future replys to this note. Based
    on the fact that I wrote down the weight of the animal I would have
    thought people would have realized it was not left to rot... although,
    this is not particularly unethical either.  I realize now exactly what
    Roak meant when he said "divided we fall".  BTW, why didn't you pose
    this same question to note 1122.4??? just curious...  I find it
    discouraging to have to include reasons why I hunt Coyotes every time 
    I post a successful hunt in this file, or what I do with them after. 
    
    Fra

>   If i didn't have to turn the head into the F&W dept. i'd make necklaces
>   with the teeth... hows that for total use of the thing.
    
   
Can you get 'em back from F&W?  Seems like all they'd wanna do is 
measure the teeth (or count how many), check it for rabies, and then 
what?  Seems like you could work some sort of arrangement to get it 
back from them.  Or is this an assumption that you're dealing with 
anything other than a bureaucratic organization who won't give it back 
simply because "that's the rule."

Scott

    FRA
     If we get anymore yotes, maybe we should sell them to the Chinese.
    I can see it now, PORK FRIED YOTE.
    
                            BILL
    

    
    
       Fra,
    
         I know where you are coming from, the question I have is what is
    the difference between a yote and a crow in terms of shooting them? if
    people remember there is a couple notes in here referencing shooting
    crows and leaving them to rot since they arent any good to eat. why
    werent people drilled with ethics questions about that?
    
        To me a crow does damage to game bird eggs, so if you shoot crows
    you are helping some of the game birds, yotes eat rabbits, young game
    birds so harvesting them helps out too.
    
         Also the coyotes have a good number of young each year and if the 
    numbers arent kept in check we will have a masssive amount of yotes
    roaming around. heck just look at the population explosion in the last 
    10 years! 
    
                                            Lee
    

    Killing anything and leaving it to rot is wrong in my opinion,
    regardless of the reasons.  
    
    Not to pick on you Fra (cuz we agree on an awful lot of things), but
    this "divide and conquer" phrase really bothers me.  Are we as
    individuals supposed to automatically agree and support every activity
    that pertains to hunting simply because we belong to the same special
    interest group?  I'd like to believe that as individuals we can think
    for ourselves, form our own opinions and senses of ethics, and to act
    accordingly.  We are individuals, not automatons.
    
    However, at the same time I can see what you mean when you use the 
    phrase.  It's a delicate balance...acting according to your individual
    beliefs while at the same time supporting those in your special
    interest group who participate in activities that you may choose not
    to.
    
    Mark.
    
    Mark.

>    ps, why do you ask???

 Because I was considering trying it too, and I wanted to know "what happens
next?" I wasn't questioning your ethics. You can tell that hunting is under
seige when hunters go on the defensive when questioned by other hunters. :-)/2

 (Now I'm reading .101)

 I'm not questioning _why_ you hunt them. Not a bit. I'm just interested
in what happens after the kill. I told my wife that might might want to try
hunting yotes, and she asked what I'd do with one if I got one. I didn't
have a good answer except that I'd like to keep the skin, so I thought I'd
ask someone who got one. 

 There's a pretty strong population in the area where I hunt (enough for them
to sometimes look into the windows of the farmhouse in winter, and to
chow down stillborn calves, etc.) It seems like something fun and challenging.

 The Doctah (who's not on a crusade. this time :-) :-)

    Mark, 
    
    I understand exactly where your coming from... (i.e. I don't like the
    thought of people hunting with M1A's or SKS's, not that it's wrong but 
    that it seems unnatural) But I would never question anyone on why they
    use em... Whatever floats your boat.
    
    I guess i'm a little touchy about this whole issue, because it was
    mentioned earlier in this note on why i do it and what i do with them
    when i'm fortunate enough to get one.  Not to mention that I did put in
    a note regarding taxidermy training. You can rest assured that any I
    shoot will not be left to rot... I believe in using the
    whole animal wherever possible... and from now on that includes all
    hides from any deer I take.  Whether it be for the fur or just the
    leather.  I think everyone should make an effort to use the whole
    animal, but you'll never hear me chastise those that don't.
    
    There some quote that I don't remember verbatum, but it goes something
    like this:
    
    when they took away handguns, i didn't care cause i didn't have any.
    
    when they took away semi auto's, i didn't care cause i don't target
    shoot.
    
    when they took away bows, i didn't care cause i don't bowhunt.
    
    when they took away shotguns, i didn't care cause i don't bird hunt.
    
    when they took away trapping rights, i didn't care cause i don't trap.
    
    when they took away my hunting, i looked around and no one was left.
    
    I guess that pretty much says it all...
    
    i'm done, Fra

>    Killing anything and leaving it to rot is wrong in my opinion,
>    regardless of the reasons.  

 What about farmers whose livestock are being severely depleted due to
predation? You don't think they have a right to pop a couple of the
bolder predators unless they make use of the carcass?

    re .-1
    
      Ditto what you said Doctah...
    
      Heck, I used to go rat hunting in the Seabrook dump about 18 years
    ago (that was before they decided to put a Nuclear plant where the
    dump was :-)  ...
    
      A varmint, is a varmint, is a varmint...IMO, I rate rats, HEALTHY coy-
    ote populations, crows, woodchucks, etc. as "varmints". There is no
    need to feel bad about taking these animals AND NOT EATING them. Of
    course, hunting should be regulated or curtailed even for these
    "varmints" (with the exception of rats :-) should their populations
    become low... I also feel that you could/should try to find someone
    who'll use animals such as woodchucks, for food if you yourself don't
    want to. Yet, even if you have to leave one for the scavengers, or bury
    it, I don't see where it's morally wrong to hunt them...
    
    Joe

	Fra, apart from all these "ethics" questions, I was
	just wondering: I know you'll probably soon be hunting with
	your .220 Swift again - the perfect Yote medicine if ever
	there was one. But... If you ever considered hunting with
	your .270 again (or another medium bore) do you think a
	FMJ or solid bullet would be the ticket? I gathered from
	the title of your initial reply that you felt that maybe
	a .270 was a bit too hefty - atleast seen from a taxidermy
	point of view. With a FMJ surely you would get 2 holes,
	but they would probably both be small (barring tumbling).
	Whatdyathink? Would a FMJ kill securely enough?

							- Mike

    Just an addition to this note. The Manchester New Hampshire Union
    Leader paper had an article and picture this morning on the front
    page of a female Yote that was lost and confussed at the local
    airport parking lot. F & G people sedated her and will transport
    her up north for release.
    
    
    	Red

    Mike,
    
    I hunted this weekend with "Swifty", man what a rifle... smooth, sweet
    shooting little thing... little heavy to be toteing around all day, but
    nice if your not bushwacking.  Ended up putting on a straigt 10x
    Unertle (sp) Vulture with AO... it's beautiful during the daylight
    hours but when the light is waning, the fine crosshairs and dot
    disappear.  I was more than a little disappointed at this, as the best
    times (for coyote anyway) is the half hour before sunrise and half hour
    after sunset.  The trigger pull BTW is exception now that I had it
    adjusted.
    
    The more I look at other scopes the more I like the post and crosshair
    of the burris 3x9 on my .270...  If I could find a FMJ .277 bullet out
    there I'd use the .270 exclusively for my larger varminting...  If
    theres someone out there manufacturing a .277 FMJ, i've yet to find 
    them...
    
    On the flip side, I was reading somewhere, where someone used a
    boattail bullet seated backwards so that the base would be out front.
    I think it was Peter Capstick, while hunting Africa... not sure of the
    details, but he needed a solid and just turned the bullet around...
    I was thinking bout this also... but not having any info on powder
    charge figures, was a little leery about trying it.
    
    I looked through a friends scope on saturday when we got home... he's
    got the duplex crosshair reticle... don't particularly like it but
    during the waning minutes of light you can still see your crosshairs...  
    It was dark when we arrived home and upon looking through his scope into
    the dark woods, his crosshairs actually picked up what little light was
    available and turned white... where in the daylight they are black... 
    
    Fra

    You might look at a Bushnell Banner Light-Sight - 3-9 power, flip
    the switch and you've got a red dot sight. I use the 1.5-6 version
    on my deer rifle and love it. Dark pines? No problem.

 Wouldn't a slow expander like a nosler partition work well on varmints in
terms of not making such a mess of the hide (like a soft point)?

    I'm currently using the 150 SPBT for my larger (coyote pelt specific)
    varmints, and have reduced the exit hole from baseball size down to
    about silver dollar size, but it's still a far cry from a FMJ...
    
    It's not beyond repair, but it definately makes for alot of sewing...
    
    I'm going scope shopping next weekend... ;^)
    
    Fra

	Fra, when you looked in that duplex-reticled scope and saw the
	reticle turn white (in Leupold or in my eyes (?) I normally
	have mine turn yellow...) did you try to put the sight on anything?
	I have noticed that when the light is waning, I cannot seem to
	focus the reticle and the target at the same time - which is 
	normally the advantage of the scope as opposed to open
	sights: sights and target in the same optical plane. I wonder
	what the explanation for this is? My experience is, that when	
	the light is almost gone, you have to revert to open sight tactics
	even when using an optical sight. Anybody else have this experience?

	RE: Noslers Partitions.

	Actually Partitions are quite explosive bullets, their front
	jacket is pretty thin and designed to let the front partition 
	of the bullet expand fairly violently. Because the partition
	stops expansion the expanded diameter is limited, and because
	the rear core provides for weight retention, Partitions are
	still pretty good penetrators. But expand they do! Heavier
	bullets tend to have heavier jackets (assuming the same caliber)
	but I have found all Partitions well designed for expansion.
	As a matter of fact I wish Nosler would take the heavier Partitions
	and move the partition forward say 10-20 %, that would increase 
	weight retention. They tend to loose their front core completely
	if they hit bone.

	Brett Hesel (sp?) from Seattle - if I remember correctly? - once 
	entered a note (in FIREARMS?) about how destructive he felt Partitions
	were - bloodshot meat. If memory serves, he had loaded a .300
	Wthby Mag with .150 grs Partition pills, and had proceeded to
	nail a poor antilope at something just beyond powder burn range...
	I personally think that any expanding bullet would have given
	him about the same amount of bloodshot meat, but that happens
	to be a personal opinion. I have also had a suprising amount
	of bloodshot meat from a Partition shot at close range at a 
	light critter (albeit at .30-06 velocities with a .200 grs bullet).
	I just happen to believe that this is the compromise we have to
	live with if we want reliable expansion at longer ranges/lower
	velocities.

	RE: FMJ in 270...

	Back to the subject at hand... :-) I know this is ridiculous, Fra,
	but if you simply *must* have a .270 FMJ/Solid, then Barnes has
	a .270 cal, 130grs solid. Albeit at ridiculous prices...

							- Mike

    Mike, 
    
    nope, didn't point it at anything, just put it up to the sky... so i
    didn't get a chance to see if the focus was out when on target.
    
    A barnes solid might be the way to go should i continue hunting with
    the .270 for yotes... i was thinking of doing a little scope hunting...
    but now it looks more like I need another .220 swift with a low light
    setup... ;^)
    
    Gotta tell ya, i'm having a blast with this .220... I took out a crow
    yesterday afternoon at about 275 yards out in a corn field... what a
    gun!
    
    Fra

    Oh, almost forgot...
    
    Theres a tracking/trapping seminar on Coyotes in Townsend MA friday
    night (1/31) 7:30 PM at the Jr. High School...  don't have any of the 
    details, as I just found out about it yesterday afternoon... not even 
    sure who the speaker is...  I'll try and get a little more info 
    today... anyone else hear anything about it?
    
    Fra
    
    

    I have placed the recipe for synthetic fermented egg (coyote
    attractant) I mentioned earlier in topic 1131.0 "Scents: make your 
    own". The coyotes will love(boom)hate it :^) . 
       This is also great for practical jokes on yer hunting buddies: 
    1) Place a drop on a piece paper 2) place paper in wires under 
       buddies car seat 3) watch em go nuts trying to figure out/
       steamclean awful smell 4) watch him kill ya when ya fess up 
    
    :^)  :^)
    
    chuck

    I entered this note in 1166, but thought you may want to see it
    here too.  
    
    I friend of mine's father was milking cows last weekend and heard
    a calf BAAAAAAA!  He looked out the window and a coyote had the calf
    by the base of the tail.  He ran out the door and got within 10 feet
    of the coyote before it let go and ran off.  He they went back in and
    resumed milking.  after about 30 minutes he heard it BAAAAAAA again.
    He looked out the window, only to see the coyote back on the calf.  He
    ran back outside and chased the coyote away.
    
    He said that the calf weighed about 65lbs.  So much for them only
    eating mice and berries.
    
    Wess

    
    	I guess it's that time of year again ..  dead of winter and the 
    yotes must be getting hungry.  Just got a call from a farmer friend 
    of mine about a dead calf that he has that I plan to pick up tonight.
    I need some advice on how to set up over this to kill a (some?) yotes
    from you guys who have set baits before.  There seems to be a fair
    population of them on the hill behind our house, and after finding 
    a dead deer eaten by coyotes last month, I know they're activily working
    the area.
    
    	I've heard of people tying the bait in a tree just off the ground
    (enough so they can't drag it away) - have any of you tried this??
    Also, would a fenceline be a good place?  They seem to like to travel
    these edges and along stone walls.  Also, assuming I set the bait along
    a place like this, where should I sit?  On the ground?  In a treestand?
    Should I place some Fox urine on a rag and hang it in a tree near me?
    Should I be down wind of the carcass?  Should I plan to sit only in 
    the evening just before dark, or should I try early in the morning 
    and during the day??  Should I try to call while I'm sitting over the
    bait??  I hope I'm not asking too much here, but basically, how should
    I use this to thin the pack?  I appreciate any and all responses!
    
    thanks in advance - Rob

    
    Just wondering a bit here,  a dead calf sounds like a wolf problem.
    I read about the same thing happening in western Maine two or three 
    years ago.
    
    Gary

    
    	Maybe I wasn't clear, I want to use the dead calf as bait to 
    bring coyotes in!  The calf died in the barn, disease, who knows?
    
    - Rob
    

	If I were going to setup a bait for coyotes, I would make sure 
I had a way to get to my stand without distubing the bait and also to 
have a clear shooting lane (no unexpected hikers, etc) and a safe backstop.
The coyotes will find the bait, no problem.  You will need to anchor 
the bait to a tree or something firm, otherwise they will drag it away.
I would also opt for a groud stand vs tree, unless you are going to use
a bow.

	Do not use a call while in your stand; you do not want them 
focusing their attention from the bait to your location.

Locate a fur buyer before you start the harvest and work out the arrangements.

My 2 cents,
	Jim Pedersen

    
    	Thanks Jim

    I had read an article once that used a different method of baiting
    coyotes. They used a fawn decay standing in the middle of a field and
    used a fawn in distress call on a tape. They got quite a few coyotes
    that way.
    							Bret

FWIW,

along a stone wall, or fenceline, anywhere actually... They'll find it as 
Jim already pointed out.  A good cover scent, and downwind position, with 
a travel lane to get in without disturbing the bait.  I would'nt hang it,
just my opinion, I could'nt get them to hit the baits I had hanging, had 
much more success with just wiring them to trees or stakes when a tree 
wasn't nearby... Not sure what your using for a firearm, but i'm 
currently using the .220 so i'm setup about 150-200 yards away from my 
baits... for closer setups, i'd use a treestand whenever possible.

I've got them currently hitting a roadkill deer pretty heavy that I have 
wired to a tree ... unfortunately because of the birth of my son, I 
havn't had a chance to get out there in the last few weeks... It's 
probably gone!!  I havn't had a whole lot of luck calling them, so I 
can't really comment.  Could be the lack of experience or that their just 
not in the area...  I've had much better luck in the late afternoon hours 
than in the mornings when hunting them...  when deer hunting, I seem to 
see them more in the mornings... but thats probably just hunter pressure.

Good Luck,

Fra

    
    	Thanks Fra,  I ended up dragging the darned thing out last evening
    in the bitter cold and just about froze my *&% off.  I was walking 
    through snow up to my knees.  I did end up hanging it in a tree on 
    a fenceline next to a overgrown field with a setup position crosswind
    about 80 yards out ( actually on the other side of the field).  The
    bottom of it is only about 2 feet off the ground.  If I don't get any
    bites (no pun intended :') ) I might try moving it.  It's frozen so
    solid right now that I can't imagine they'd hit it until it warms 
    up a bit.  Either that or I'll lower it to the ground and wire it
    onto the old fenceline (which btw might look rather authentic... calf
    gets caught up in old fence wire and dies...)
    
    
    	We'll see and thanks again for the replies - Rob
    

    
    BTW Fra, Congrats on the new boy!  probably already got a set of camo's
    for him eh?

Thanks Rob,

He was born last week, a boy finally... after 3 girls, it was nice to see 
one come out with horns...  Ethan Orion LaFosse  8 lbs 3 ozs 22"
Everyone's doing just great...  havn't got the camo's yet, but a nice 
little .257 Roberts is in the works.

>    BTW Fra, Congrats on the new boy!  probably already got a set of camo's
>    for him eh?


Fra

RE: .130

> Ethan Orion LaFosse  8 lbs 3 ozs 22"

Fra, how did you get that middle name past the wife?

Congrats,

Dave

    
    
    Fra,
          Congrats to you and your wife on the arrival of your son.
    
    Hunting will have a new meaning when you and your son get
    to hunt together..
    
    Pappy
    
    

It started off as a joke, but for 4 months I kept telling her we were 
gonna name him Orion or Jeremiah (as in Johnson) if we had a boy... 
and the more she heard the name Orion the more she liked it... the rest 
is history...  My mother-in-law actually liked it... 

Thanks for the Kudo's.

>Fra, how did you get that middle name past the wife?
>
>Congrats,
>
>Dave

    Train him young and keep him interested.
    
    It may make it a little easier with the little woman later on
    when you spend a little too much time afield.
    
    
    
    Congrats!
    George

         <<< Note 112.135 by DECALP::HOHWY "Just another Programmer" >>>
                             -< Way to go, Fra!! >-

	Fra,

		Congrats on the son. Is he an NRA member yet ?


	Red_who became a Grandad in September