Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    	I'm using a Dixie Gun Works Tenn. Mountain Rifle in .50 cal.
    It's of the Penn. long rifle style and has a 41.5" barral.  Definatly
    not a brush gun!!!
    
    	The load I'm using is 100 grains RS Pyrodex behind a 385 grn.
    HP Buffalo mini ball.  After tuning the rifle in before the season
    started, I found this to be the minimum load which gave good accuracy
    in my rifle.  The rifle gives a good solid wallop into my shoulder
    when fired with this load.
    
    	BP hunting is new to me and I'm curious how other people look
    at the safty issues involved.  For my own part I'm walking with
    the gun on half cock.  When done hunting for a time (as in lunch
    or done for the day) I'll remove the cap and place the hammer fully
    on the nipple.  Opinions? 
    
    	Another question I have is on the use of these speed loaders.
    I bought 3 which allow you to have bullet, powder and cap in one
    neat package.  They're made out of red plastic.  The only thing
    is that when they're loaded the nose of the bullet is in contact
    with the powder.  I'm worried that some of the powder may stick
    to the nose when I load the rifle and upon firing, set itself into
    the hollow point and therefore taint some of the meat when I get
    somthing.  The amount of powder is obviously small and the area
    where the bullet actually hits would probably be cut away so am
    I worrying about nothing?
    
    Good luck to all you charcoal burners out there...
    
    Rich
    
    

    I shoot a T/C 45 cal Cherokee and I use to own a T/C 45 Hawken,
    I found the Cherokee much easier to hunt with 2 lbs lighter. I
    hunt with 80 grains and the Buffalo HP. In reply to .2 if you 
    take a small amount of the clear sandwich wrap and wrap it around
    the mini ball you'll find the lube doesn't dry up and you solve
    your problem of powder getting into the hollow point. Also the
    wrap doesn't affect the mini ball. In damp or wet days while hunting
    I put a piece over the end of my barrel held in place by a rubber
    band and that keeps the barrel dry.
    
    
    
    
                                                   Hope this helped,
    
                                                          Guy

     I CARRY A 50 CAL. HAWKENS. IT HAS AN ITALIAN MADE BARREL AND IS
    DISTRIBUTED BY SILE INC. IN N.Y. . THE BARREL HAS A STAINLESS STEEL
    LINING. I ALSO SHOOT THE BUFFALO BALLS IN FRONT OF 80 GRAINS OF
    RS PYRODEX. I DON'T USE A SPEED LOADER AND DON'T FEEL THE NEED FOR
    ONE. AFTER THE FIRST SHOT, IF THE DEER DOESN'T TAKE OFF FROM THE
    SHOT, HE'S BOUND TO PICK UP ON THE MOVEMENT OF RELOADING. AS IT
    IS IT TAKES ME LESS THEN A MINUTE TO RELOAD.( PRE-MEASURED LOADS)
     THE LAST TWO YEARS I'VE HUNTED BOTH THE MUZZLELOADER SEASON AND
    REGULAR FIREARMS SEASON WITH THE OL' SMOKE-POLE. IN 85 I TOOK A
    3X1(LEFT ANTLER BROKEN OFF) DURRING THE MUZZLELOADER SEASON AND
    LAST YEAR TOOK A NICE 5 POINTER. 128LBS. AND 138LBS.  LET ME TELL
    YA', THOSE BUFFALO BALLS REALY DO THE JOB.
    		
    						HAPPY HUNTING, BRUCE

    P.S.  THE FIVE POINTER WAS TAKEN DURRING THE REGULAR FIREARMS SEASON
    WITH THE OL'SMOKE-POLE.
    BRUCE

    AN OLD TIMER TOLD ME TO PUT A FEW GRAINS OF POWDER IN THE NIPPLE
    BEFORE PUTTING ON YOUR CAP. THIS WILL MAKE FOR A HOTTER FLASH SO
    YOU WILL NOT GET A MISSFIRE EVEN IN WET WEATHER.
    
    
    GOOD LUCK
    GILLES

    RE .6 AYYYEEEEEE NO NO NO !!! You will certainly cause hangfires
    with such a method - the spark must burn through the powder in the
    nipple to reach the charge - result: longer lock time and poor
    accuracy. Try RWS caps from europe instead - hotter than CCI or
    CVA. Guaranteed BOOM ****

    
      Another little tip if it's wet outside...
    
      I take a small bit of Alox bullet lubricant out with me. If it's
    nasty outside I smear just a teeny bit of the stuff around the bottom
    part of the cap after it's on the nipple. Alox is waxy so it won't
    leech up and destroy the priming compound...
    
      I never heard of putting a few grains of powder in the nipple
    either. The best thing to do is to make absolutely sure that there
    is powder "directly below" the nipple. After charging the gun just
    unscrew the nipple and make sure. I've heard of putting a little
    bit of very fine FFFFg powder just below the nipple. If everything's
    dry you can bet that ole Betsy's gonna go ka-boom. I also use RWS
    dynamit-Nobel caps. I've no idea which have a hotter spark (RWS
    or CCI) but I do know that RWS caps are a bit smaller in diameter
    than the CCI #11 caps. This makes for a much tighter fitting cap
    which should keep moisture out.
    
      Buffalo Bullets are definitely awesome killers. I saw how they
    operated two Saturdays ago. Suffice it to say that the one who used
    the buffalo bullet is "thinking" of switching to a roundball for
    whitetails...
    
    
    Joe

    Thats me reply .8 is talking about. Buffalo Bullets work. I got
    my deer opening day of muzzle season with a T/C New Englander with
    the fifty cal. barrel installed. I intend to us the same gun for
    the MA season except it will be sporting the 12 guage barrel. I
    did consider changing to a round ball but the Buffalo Bullets are
    so accurate and I know they will get the job done right the first
    time.
    
    sjn

    reply .9
        
         I have a question on the legality of the Buffalo Bullets, the
    Mass law say,s round ball only and I know they mean it. Have talked
    with several EPO's on the subject. They all said don't get got with
    anything other than round balls.
    
    
    Bill
    
    
    

    reply .10
        I know that you can't use anything but round ball in MA. The
    Buffalo Bullet company doesn't make anything that could be used
    in a smooth bore. But I do have a supply of round ball that fit
    the 12 guage...... SO on to the happy world of smooth bore round
    ball hunting.......
    
                    KEEP YOUR POWDER DRY!!!!!!!!
    
    
    sjn

    re .11
    
    When I was up in Canada hunting the guide that was with us talked
    up the round balls for shotguns, He was saying that you could expect
    to get a tighter group and better penitration from the round balls.
    Any truth to that? Do you load your own?
    
    Rich

    re .12
    
       I know a few people that target shoot with their muzzle loaders
    and all of them use round ball as they claim it is the most accurate.
    Although the powder charge is usually very small. As far as smooth
    bore goes you are almost stuck using patched round ball or something
    like a benneke slug that has a fiber wad screwed to the base of
    what they call a rifled slug. That type of slug could be used if
    you didn't hunt in MA. As of right now I am looking for a round
    ball mold to cast my own 12 guage balls.........
    
    sjn

    
    	I have a co-worker here who is looking for an article 
    out of a back issue of 'Muzzle Loader' (?) magazine which dealt
    with the construction of TeePees. 
    
    	If anyone out there could get a copy of this article to me
    it would be greatly appreciated.... :-)
    
    		Thanks in advance,   Dave Nelson SHR1-3/D19

    I need some info/advice. I just bought a CVA .50,and have been using
    a .490 dia. patched roundball over 100 grains of Pyrodex with excellent
    results. My problem is that I just bought some Buffalo bullets for
    the rifle,and can't find any info about how much powder to use with
    them. The rule of thumb that I've seen in a couple of books is one
    grain of powder for each grain of lead,but a Buffalo bullet weighs
    435 grains,and I don't think 435 grains of Pyrodex is something
    that I want to jump into doing. Anyone have any experience with
    these?? 
    	Thanks, George
    

    Simple rule of thumb : Twice diameter in hundreths = near maximum
    load in grains. 50 caliber (.50 inches) -> 100 grains

    re. 16
    
      That's a pretty good rule of thumb. Even with 100 grains of BP
    in a 50 though it could be an overload is "some" rifles. Some of
    the "less expensive" models that I've seen have some pretty flim-
    sy springs for the hammer. I would feel safe yet "apprehensive"
    about touching off a 435 grain conical in one of these rifles with
    100 grains of powder behind that chunk of lead. I would start at
    the caliber (50 cal = 50 grains of BP) and proceed from there watching
    for powder blowback past the hammer till the "double the caliber"
    level was reached...
    
    
    Joe

    	Thanks,I think the 50 grains working up to a hundred is a good
    idea. Another question,what do you mean by "blowback by the hammer"?
    When I use 100 grains behind a patched ball,the hammer ends up at
    half cock after firing,is this what you mean?  Is this a serious
    problem?? I can see I have a lot to learn,better to learn from
    you guys than experience.
    
    	Thanks again,
    		George
    

    George:
    
      That's exactly what I was talking about. Your hammer getting blown
    back to halfcock indicates that the charge is over the max for the
    rifle that you have. (It's a CVA, right?) Most of the CVA rifles
    that I've seen had very weak hammer springs. In most muzzleloaders
    on the market, this is the weak link. You're not going to split
    a barrel on most muzzleloaders from an overload. What'll happen
    is that the hammer usually flies back from back pressure on firing.
    You shouldn't see muzzleloaders like T/C's or the Navy Arms hawkens
    rebounding the hammer. They have coil springs and the like in their
    lockworks, and these make the lockworks very rugged.
    
      Your roundball is about 180 grains I believe. If firing the roundball
    with 100 grains of BP rebounds your hammer, imagine what a 435 grain
    conical like the buffalo bullet would do with the same charge!!!!
    
    
    Joe

	OK,Joe,,nix on the buffalo bullets. Do you know if replacing
    the springs will help,or should I be thinking about another rifle?
    
    	Thanks again,
    		George
    

    George:
    
      To tell you the truth I'd look into another rifle. Keep the one
    you have and shoot the roundball loads through it (that is, shoot
    loads that don't rebound the hammer!)
    
      Any T/C product is rugged as all hell and should allow you to
    load up as much as your shoulder can stand. My hunting partner used
    a T/C New Englander in .50 cal with a buffalo bullet to take his
    deer this year. He loaded 90-100 grains behind the 385 grain bullet.
    Very powerful!
    
      Whatever you look at, make sure to check the lockwork out. Try
    pulling the hammer back on a T/C Renegade, New Englander, Hawken
    (but not the Seneca or Cherokee since they're built a bit more del-
    icate). You'll notice that they have an extremely stiff hammer spring
    and a very large hammer too. That's what you'll want for 100 grain
    loads behind "any" conical bullet. If you could put a new spring
    in your CVA, your hammer on the gun may not be able to take the
    extra punishment, so you really shouldn't consider that as a viable
    option.
    
      Good luck, and let us know what you buy. (Check that T/C New England-
    er out!)
    
    
    Joe

    I have a Dixie Gun Works Tenn. Mountain Rifle, 50 cal and used 385
    Buffalo bullets this year.  A nice load with 100 grains of RS Pyrodex.
    
    I did some tuning of the rifle in the summer and was suprized at
    the results I got.  Though the tests are still far from complet
    I learned that as little as 5 grains could affect accuracy with
    10 grains difference significantly affecting accuracy.
    
    For me, 85 grains of RS Pyrodex behind a patched round ball with
    a .010 inch patch lubed with Snowproof gave the best accuracy (I
    still have to vary the patch thickness and the type of cap used).
    
    Slightly better was a 385 grain Buffalo bullet ahead of 105 grains
    of RS Pyrodex.  The 105 grains really punished me so I reduced the
    charge by 5 grains for hunting (though the rifle apparently handled
    the 105 grain charge fairly well).
    
    If you are getting hammer blowback from a charge check to insure
    that the nipple hasn't too large of a hole.  The larger the hole
    in the nipple the more positive the ignition and the more blowback
    you'll get. 
    
    Rich 

    MY rule-of-thumb was for roundball shooting. Anybody who reloads
    is aware that heavier bullets max out with less powder than light
    bullets. Best bet - get Sam Fadala's book of black powder loads
    and look up your gun. 
    
    Dana

    If you're thinking of a new gun, I'd have to second the vote for
    Thompson/Center.  I have 2 Hawken's (one flint lock the other
    precussion)and they're fine guns.  T/C also guarantees their guns
    for life.  If something needs repair, they fix it free of charge,
    no questions asked.
    
    Mark,
    

    re.16
      I don't think that 100 grains of blackpowder is too much. I use
    it in my T/C New Englander 50 cal. In fact that what I was using
    when I got my deer this year (100 grains FFFg behind a 385 grain
    Buffalo Bullet). I believe you only have a weak hammer spring. But
    if you don't feel comfortable with it and want to buy a new gun,
    I would vote for the T/C New Englander 50 cal. Thats my favorite
    right now. I also own a T/C renegade in 50 cal, a T/C Hawken in
    50 cal, an orginal smoothbore 1864 Springfield in 58 cal, and an
    extra 12 guage smoothbore barrel for the New Englander. If I can
    find a H&R Springfield Stalker at the right price in 58 cal I would
    pick that up. Always in the market for something new, as one of
    my friends used to put it "Can't decide, Buy Both!"............
    
    sjn

    	When I read Rich's reply concerning the size of the hole in
    the nipple on my CVA,I thought,"hell,,a nipple's cheap,I might as
    well try that". I bought a new hot-shot nipple designed for the
    CVA,and voila!! No blowback. Now I can shoot the CVA without 
    worrying about that.
    	I think I will look into a T/C for hunting though,since the
    consensus is that it's better for that purpose,but I'll have to
    wait 'till I have the $$$$. The CVA might work out real well
    if I finally make up my mind to get into Buckskinning.
    
    	Thanks to all you guys for the good advice,
    
    		George