Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    
    My understanding has been, for quite some time, that the Federal
    stamp is just that Federal, meaning the entire U.S. for waterfowl.
    Most states require a State Stamp for waterfowl as well, this is
    becoming very popular throughout the U.S.-with the reasons being
    more revenue for the State Wildlife agencies.  I also believe that
    you would need the State small game liscence.
    
    So you hunt Woodcock...???...ever eat those little critters??? a
    bit gamey tasting they are, what do you expect for a bird that eats
    bugs and worms as its primary food source.  I do find them quite
    interesting to shoot, but have never enjoyed their taste.
    
  
    Kevin  

    I for one love their taste. I just wish they were bigger.
    
    Now has any one heard of the federal duck stamp proposed
    increases. I haven't received this years but they are to go
    up either this year and again soon after that.
    
    I think it was to 10.00 and then to 12.50 but don't repeat
    any of this until some one confirms the increase and the amount
    of increase.

    I am the proud owner of a $10 federal duck stamp.
    
    Rich

    I didn't think you needed a federal or state duck stamp for
    woodcock, just a small game license.  Have I been missing
    something?
    
    Mark,
    

    Small game hunting in N.H. starts on October 1st and ends on:
    
    Partridge - Dec 31st
    Pheasant - Dec 31st  (all the money for this goes to Southwestern counties)
    Quail - Dec 1st (must have imported some!)
    Rabbits - Feb 1st
    Hares - Mar 15th
    Squirrel - Nov 1st
    
    Turks - Sept 19 - Oct 23 (bow only)

    .4 and .5
    
    I have an official looking piece of paper from Cronin's (Director
    of Mass Fish and Game Dept.) office that specifically states stamps
    (both federal and state) are NOT required to hunt rails, snipe, 
    woodcock or Amercian Coot.

    
    You don't need it (at least not in the state of Mass)!!!
    
    The piece of paper is the 1986 Massachusetts Migratory Bird
    Regulations. I phoned Westboro and confirmed that the law is the
    same this year.

    Timberdoodles are great in a game stew. They are also good fried
    like liver and onions. 
    
    Guy

    
      Wow, what differing messages!!  I talked to a game warden
    last year and I was told if I didn't have a Federal stamp
    for woodcock, I'd be ticketed and also I'd better be sure
    that (if I was using a pump or auto) I had a plug in the
    gun.  Maybe things have changed since last year?? I guess
    I'll get the stamp to be on the safe side in MA then I'll
    have it for NH & NY.                                   
                            
       I've read that cooking them in wine or tomato sauce takes
    out the "gamey" taste.. 
    
    
                  Thanks for the info...
    
                               ~Mike~

    While I'm not 100% positive, this is the rule I've understood
    for several years.  Somewhere i remember reading it, but for the
    life of me can't find it written.  Anyway here's how I understand
    it. Woodcock are a migratory bird, and therefore require the Federal 
    Migratory Bird stamp.  Your friend who told you about the plug for 
    your shotgun...that plug applies to the hunting of migratory birds.
    
    Bryan

    I believe (but could be wrong :^)) that you must have your shotgun
    plugged for 3 shots REGARDLESS of the game you are hunting, if in
    fact it is during duck season.  
    
    Mark.

    re .8 .9 .10
    
    I just called the US Fish and Wildlife to confirm the 1987 regulations.
    You do not need a Federal Stamp anywhere in the U.S. to hunt Rails,
    Snipe, Woodcock, or American Coot. You do need a Federal Stamp to
    hunt any ducks (including Sea Ducks), geese or brant.
    
    The State of Massachusetts also follows these same rules. You may
    possibly live in a state that requires a state stamp...but you do 
    not need the fed. Its a moot point for me, since duck and geese 
    hunting are high on my list.

    As far as the plug...
    
    it is required when hunting ANY migratory bird including all of
    the above. 

    They are sending me a full copy of the 1987 Federal regs. I have 
    a copy of the 1986 Migratory Bird regulations.
    
    If you want to get any additional info on the regs, call:
    
    U.S. Fish and Wildlife (617) 965-5100
    Mass. Div. Fisheries & Wildlife (617) 727-3151
    
    See ya out there!
    
    Guy

    
    re .11
    
        Well I talked to a game warden last night and you are correct
    the stamp is needed for DUCKS ONLY,  HOWEVER if you are planning
    on hunting woodcock make sure you have a plug in the gun (pump or
    semi auto). Since I hunt with an O/U I don't worry about such
    things...:-) :-)
    
    
                 Thanks Guy, you learn something new every day!!
    
                                     ~Mike~
    
    

    I for the life of me don't understand with the exception of purhaps deer
    hunting with a shotgun, why I or anyone else would want to hunt
    upland birds with more than three shots.
    
    Can someone explain why? To me ( when I used these type of guns )
    it always was more of a hastle to remove the plug than it was worth
    and in places and habitat where spieces overlap even though you
    were hunting phesants and in posession of all the necessarry
    stamps it would be against the law to shoot at a woodcock or if
    you jumped a puddle duck.
                                                                     
    Also in Pennsylvania, If you hunt any small game the gun has to
    be restricted to three shots. So the only time I think you would
    remove it in Pa is durring deer season if you were hunting with
    a shotgun and I seriously doubt weather you would remove it then.
    
    Bear
        

    In case you miss? I dont realy see were you would need more than
    three for a deer either, but I do load up when waterfowl are out
    of season. I cant wait to hear about this can of worms that just
    was opened.
    
    Rich

    If you can't hit'em with the first three shots, I don't think the
    extra two are gonna do much good.
              
    I like o/u's
    Jeff

    I always assumed that the reason for the plug was to stop people
    from shooting 5 shots at the same animal.  99% of the time the
    animal or bird is out of range after the 2nd or 3rd shot anyways.
    The 4th and 5th shot tends to wound rather than kill, leaving the
    animal to crawl in the weeds and die a slow death.
    
    How many people have gotten 3 really GOOD shots off on a partridge?
    
    Dave

    	I've shot at multiple ducks and had them fold up and fall out
    of the sky. Thinking they were dead, I shot at the others in the
    group only to find out the one I downed was now swimming down the
    stream while I had an empty gun. I then had to throw a shell in
    to finish off the bird.
    	Since this happened, two things are different. One is that I'm
    much better with my gun through continued practice (trap shooting),
    and two, my friend and his father both have Chesapeak (sp?) Bay
    retrievers. 
    	The point of all this is that it is conceivable to get 4-5 GOOD
    shots at ducks but the law is the law. Last year a Federal game
    warden visited the area I duck hunt and he checked for plugs (among 
    other things). 
    	For the most part I agree that you don't NEED more than a 3
    shot capability.
    
    RAYJ
    
    

    re .16
    
    They do make 3 shot shotguns. I have a Baretta AL2 which is a 3
    shot gun!:)
    
    Mike

    Come to think of it, I cant remember ever taking more than 2 shots
    at a bird, deer or rabbit.
    
    Rich

    I have never taken the plug out of any of my shotguns.
    
    And while I agree that it is very unlikely that you will get more
    than 3 good shots at 1 particular bird (with the rare exception
    of a really stupid pheasant that I shot at 2 times before he turned
    around and flew right at me) there are times that you might be able
    to get  more than 3 shots off at more than one bird.
    
    Last year, I found myself in the middle of a flight of woodcock
    (which is says right in every hunting rules and regulations manual
    "No Duck stamp rquired to hunt woodcock").  I had a side by side.
     One flew up to my right.  I shot once and missed, shot
    again and missed again. (I can admit it)  Then  another flew up
    not 3 feet in front of me.  All I could do was watch it.  As I reloaded
    they started coming up 1 at a time.  I got two more shots off. 
    I got one and missed another.  (I can admit that too)  All in all,
    I counted 8 but there could have been 9 or 10 that I didn't really
    see.
    
    The point is, if I had more rounds, I'd have fired many more shots
    without reloading.
    
    By the way, with ducks, I find hunting with my auto costs me much
    more money than hunting with my pump.  With a pump, if I miss, I'll
    decide if I want to take the next shot or not.  With my auto, If
    I miss once, the next shot is just a matter of slapping the trigger
    again, so I usually do.  Then my logic is, "Hell if I shot the first
    2, I might as well shoot the other one".  I don't think I ever actually
    got a duck that I missed twice on the thrid shot.  I tell my self
    that i have to learn to control that but it's tough.
    
    Brett.

    Hay Brett
    
    Thats why I bought a O/U now I only have two shots and I make that
    first one count.  Because it is the pits when you pull the trigger
    the second time and 1 or 2 more birds flush from the same spot!
    
    Bob
    
    

    I have to learn more self control.  It's tough.  
    
    It hardest with Partridge because I love the taste.
    
    Brett.

    Reading one of my old G&A's got me to thinking about woodcock. 
    In particular, I was reading about a group of hunters in Texas,
    I believe, that were members of the Royal Order of Woodcock Hunters
    (an informal group that meets when they feel like it).  The rules
    of the game were that it was bad form to curse the bird, for it
    was a noble bird.  For example, one does not say "I missed both
    of the &*%$# birds".  Instead, one must say "I missed both of the
    &%#$& noble birds".  Form is everything...
    
    In any case, I was curious.  Where does one find the Woodcock?
    I don't remember anybody here in Colorado ever talking about woodcock
    hunting, so I must believe that they are only found in either the
    South or the Northeast (that is if you can believe some of the
    professional liars in this notes file :-) ).
    
    					Dave()

    .23 We had them in Missouri. I would think any where in the mid
    west and as it sounds the east coast.
    
    If I remember right, wooded swampy areas are where you'll find
    them.
    
    Signed,
    
     Who else, but me.

    Right.  You usually find them in damp wooded areas, as they use
    their long beak to search for worms and such in the soft soil.
    I read an article about them, where the author said that they
    will only fly about 30 yards when put up.  Then they will sit 
    still and hide in the leaves.  The author's birds are not related
    to the birds I've shot at.  I don't hunt specifically for woodcock.
    I will occasionally put one up while partridge (grouse) hunting.
    
      Woodcock are considered migratory game birds although (atleast
    in Vermont) state & federal duck stamps are not required.  If you
    are serious about hunting them, I suggest you contact one of the
    state biologist or some such person.  They can be very helpful.
    
    Good luck,
    
    Dave

    The thing about woodcocks is they're either they're or they're not.
    The woodcock is a migratory bird that seems to move through an area
    pretty fast.  I have run into them in Maine twice while hunting
    grouse.  Both times, it was around the middle of October, but you
    can't go by that.  You have to know when they are moving down the
    country that year and guess when they'll be in a particular area
    or just happen to be there when they pass through.  I was of course
    just lucky.
    
    It is quite a thrill to put up a stand of woodcocks!  The first
    time it happened to me I was hunting with dog.  We walked into a
    stand of small hardwoods.  It was swampy.  When the first woodcock
    flew up, I swung my side by on him.  I took a shot and missed. 
    I then took a hail mary shot and missed.  I quickly broke my gun
    open and reached for two more rounds.  Right then, one flew up just
    5 feet in front of me!!!  I was unloaded and just watched it fly.
    My friend roared with laughter.  He said he wished he had a picture
    of my expression.  The dog frose and looked from side to side while
    I finished reloading.  Another flew up.  My friend naild him with
    one shot.  Another flew up, I got him and swung on another and missed.
    All in all, eight birds got up, we managed to get two while launching
    seven salutes of lead in the air.  
    
    All during this time, we didn't take one step.  They were all around
    us.  The dog hasd flushed the first one and the one that I shot.
    But they were in front of us, behind us and on both sides.  It was
    sort of surprising to me that they didn't flush at once like a covey
    of partridge, but just took off one at a time.  The whole scene
    probably ocurred within a minute, but it is one of my most memorable
    hunting moments.  Oh, how the heart was pounding!
    
    I ate my timberdoodle that time and since.  They taste just fine
    to me, but you need to get a few to make a solid meal.  By the way,
    if you tie flies or your friends do, you may want to save the feathers.
    
    Brett.

    
    	Frustrating as much as fun is the game of Woodcock hunting.
    My shorthair finally pointed his first woodcock two weekends ago.
    I'm pretty certain this was a holdover. They're a fast flying 
    little bird once they get going. Hunting with a pointing dog 
    'SHOULD' give a minor advantage to the hunter when chasing these
    little devils cuz they do hold tight. The five foot scenario Brett
    described is not uncommon. 
    	I'm still waiting to eat one of these birds, but Guy tells me
    they're a good tasting morsel.
    
    	Looking forward to hearing from New Hampshire hunters, for some
    notice of when they start moving through. The opener is Oct 1 in
    NH, the 10th of Oct in Mass.
    
    dave (and Sam)

    Last year after I lucked out opening day of blackpowder season in
    northern NH, I got to do a little bird hunting. I must have jumped
    at least a dozen of those timberdoodles in as many minutes. I shot
    at two and just let the rest fly. But they were still there last
    week of Oct.
    
    sjn

    they are a little odd when you look at them. They breast meat is
    dark and the thighs are white meat. I just breast them out and pan
    fry em.
    
    Good eating.
    
    Guy

    If you want to hunt timberdoodles, you can do no better than the
    upper peninsulua of Michigan!!! Take your dog and expect to limit
    out each day. lower western Mich is quite productive too. 

    I managed to bag a few woodcock this year - the first time for
    me in quite awhile.  Do any of you woodcock hunters have some
    good recipes you could recommend?
    
    From calculating the number of shells fired for each bird I took,
    I figure they cost me about $150 a pound, so I want it to be good!!!!
    
    Thanks,
    Mark
    

    Try stuffing them with a small onion and perhaps some garlic.
    melted butter over the outside  with pepper, salt garlic and thyme.
    If it doesn't have skin, then I cover mine with bacon.  Serve with
    rice etc.  I alway put the rice right in the pan for the last few
    minutes to soak up some flavor.  This is optional.
                                      
    Bake at 350 for maybe half an hour.  
    
    Pretty basic recipe, but it works.   Same recipe can be used with
    grouse, pheasant etc.
    
    Also, try smoking if you have a smoker.  I smoke all my pheasant
    now and I have sent many a friend and relative dancing in the streets
    with glee.
    
    Brett.

    "stuffing them with a small onion".  Better get the kind used in
    Gibsons.  8*)
    
    Jeff

    Thanks Brett, that sounds pretty good.  I think I can collect a
    few Gibons onions :-).
    
    Do you do anything different when you smoke the pheasants?  I've
    been thinking of trying that, but my wife likes my regular
    pheasant recipe so much she doesn't want me to "experiment".
    
    Thanks,
    Mark
    

    When I smoke a pheasant, I use the same liquid to soak the pheasant
    in that I soak salmon in.  I got it from a guy in the fishing notes
    file and it works great.  Here are the ingredients:
    
    1 cup of water
    1/2 cup of kosher salt
    1 cup of BROWN sugar  (if you use white sugar, it's awful)
    2 tablespoons of tabasco
    2 tablespoons of worcestershire sauce (I substitute Yashido sauce)
    1 tablespoon of ginger
    1 tablespoon of garlic powder
    
    I mix all of this in a blender, otherwise, the salt never dissolves.
    I've tried using only enough salt that will dissolve in the water,
    but the finished product never has any salt taste.  The blender
    also mixes in the ginger, which doesn't dissolve in water.
    
    I put that in a zip lock back overnight.  Shake it up every now
    and then to mix it around.  I recommend keeping the zip lock in
    a bowl.  In case it drips, you're wife won't chase you around the
    house with a baseball bat.  
    
    Make sure you use COLD water, especially if you do this with fish.
    If you use warm, it starts the cooking process.  Some people claim
    it spoils the meat before you cook it.
    
    Using a charcoal and wood smoker, I smoke it for about two hours
    on my regular smoking heat.  Use plenty of apple or alder or whatever
    wood you prefer.  
    
    Personally, I have never had pheasant that tasted better.  My wife
    loved it and she doesn't like smoked salmon (yes, it's true)!
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Brett.

    Thanks again Brett.  That does sound good!
    
    Mark
    

    I usually breast my woodcock out. I slice the breasts into quarter
    inch thick pieces and fry them in some butter, mushrooms and onions.

    Good eating
    
    Guy

    Well Brett, I owe you a beer.  I smoked a pheasant this weekend
    and it was wonderful!!!  I haven't tried the woodcock yet, but will
    soon.
    
    Have you tried that smoking recipe on ducks?  That's the next thing
    I've been wanting to try in the smoker.
    
    THANKS!!!
    
    Mark,
    

    Great!
    
    Glad you liked it.  I haven't tried duck.  I just figured out how
    to smoke things correctly (miracle of notes) and didn't get to hunt any
    ducks this year.  I've wondered if they would be good in the smoker.
    
    Perhaps you can give it a shot and let us know how they taste. 
    I've been wondering about geese too in case Jeff the goose mauler
    can give us some help there.
    
    Brett.
    

    Dave, how did the smoked duck taste?
    
    If you can dig up the recipe, please post it here.  I've got a couple
    of ducks in the freezer that I might try smoking.
    
    Thanks,
    Mark
    

    			Smoked Duck/Goose
    
    Brine:
    ------
    
    1/4 cup brown sugar
    1/4 cup salt
    1 cup soy sauce
    1 tsp onion powder
    1 tsp garlic powder
    1/2 cup red wine
    2 tblsp grated ginger
    1/2 cup orange juice
    1 1/2 cup water
    
    
    Soak bird in brine overnight.  Do not rinse.  Let air dry for one
    hour.  Smoke duck for 3 hours using apple chips (using electric
    smoker.  replace chips as necessary).  Put bird in plastic ovenbag,
    breast down, with 1/2 cup of apple cider.  Seal and cook in 350
    degree oven, using meat thermometer, until bird reaches 200 degrees.
    
    
    ====================================================================
    
    Mark,
    It may have been beginners luck (first time smoking birds) but it
    came out great.  The whole family was fighting over the leftovers.
    
    Good Luck
    
    Dave

    Dave, thanks a bunch.  I love to duck hunt, but haven't been too
    pleased with most of the ducks I've eaten.  The only ones I've
    really enjoyed were smoked, so I'm really looking forward to trying
    it.
    
    Thanks again,
    Mark