Conference vmsnet::hunting$note:hunting

    Okay, I've got a minute or two to spare.
    
    Last weekend (Labor Day) I went up to Maine (down Maine) to where
    I go deer hunting.  It is in the mountains, hence, lots of bear.
    The purpose of the trip was two-fold.  One was to shoot a bear.
    The second, of course, was to see where the deer were moving and
    do some early scouting.
    
    On the first morning I was there, I woke up and got out around 8:00.
    (late night at the campfire).  I started moving along a river bed
    that I like which was very low.  When I came to an elbow of the
    river, I decided to go move into the woods and work along the base
    of the mountain.
    
    Well, I got about 100yards in from the river and saw deer sign
    everywhere.  It was a case of "watch you don't step in any deer
    sign" :-)  I was slowly looking everywhere for a deer.  The leaves
    were still green and visibility was very limited.  I didn't go far
    when I jumped a big buck and his doe.
    
    When he lept from his bed, he snorted louder than any buck I've ever
    heard!  The doe split right and the buck circled to my left....back
    toward the river.  Instead of him crossing, I could hear him stomping
    around.  When he jumped, I could see he was big, but didn't get
    a good look at his rack.  I saw his giant white flag.
    
    I heard his hoofs stop and I could see the back half of his body
    in the trees.  I couldn't see his front legs, head or rack.  He
    stood in the same place and snorted at me.  It is hard to describe
    if you never heard this, but was he pissed!!!
    
    I cupped my hand to my mouth and snorted back at him.  This just
    made him snort louder.  This went on for about 2 minutes, which
    seemed like 10 minutes.  When he quited down, I couldn't see him.
    I decided that he had taken off.....quietly. 
    
    After about 10 minutes, I started moving strait ahead.  I came to
    a big bed of sand which was spread around like an aluvial fan from
    last Spring's floods.  I looked in the sand and saw his brand new
    tracks, realizing that when he left, he walked across my path and
    was able to be very quiet in the sand.
    
    I looked up....following his tracks with my eyes and son of a
    (expletive deleted), there he was.  He was just standing there looking
    at me!!!  I almost jumped out of my skin.  What a monster!  His
    rack was big.  It was mostly covered with moss, but some was sort
    of hanging off at the base.  I figure there must have been 9 or
    10 points.  It didn't look symmetric and I may have missed some.
    He was about 40 yards away.  I would say he was at least 225 lbs.
    He could have been closer 275 or more.
    
    Once I looked at him, he started snorting all over again.  It's
    kind of a "Whewwwww" with blowing associated with it.  I've heard
    dear snort with just a blowing sound, but this one actually kind
    of roared.  The neat part was that it was around 38 degrees and
    there was steam coming out of his nostrils.  He snorted twice and
    I snorted back once.
    
    There I was...standing there with my brand new H&K .308......Talk
    about temptation.  And he knew I couldn't shoot him.  He just stood
    there threatening me.
    
    After about a minute, he very casually turned, not like he was
    intimidated at all because he wasn't, but he turned very puposely
    and trotted off.  All the time he moved he kept snorting over and
    over.  
    
    I was so stoked that I almost wet my pants.  I couldn't believe
    that this buck was standing in the middle of the woods arguing with
    me.
    
    Come November 3rd, don't look for me here....I have an appointment
    with a buck :-)
    
    Brett. 

    I shot my first deer in 1984 near Lake Seboomok north of Moosehead
    Lake in Maine.  My father was dressing out a 237 pounder (he has
    a Big Bucks of Maine patch in 5 out of the last 7 years) when we
    heard what sounded like a herd of buffalo coming up over the ridge.
    About 7-10 deer appeared on the crest of the ridge where they stopped
    and turned toward the area they just fled from.  They were probably
    spooked by other hunters in our party.  Anyhow, I reach for my
    Winchester, drew a bead on the lead deer and fired.  After I fired
    I counted at least 3 sets of racks in the group, but the one I hit
    was a doe.  Oh, to have the patience to be selective, but for my
    first deer, I was quite satisfied.  The best part of the whole incident
    was the fact that I shot my first deer in the presence of my father,
    which meant more to me than anything else.  He claims it meant more
    to him than shooting his monster buck, which I can believe.
    
    My second deer was taken in Stratham, NH about 10 miles from my house
    in Portsmouth in '85.  I was standing beneath an oak tree on a bowl-shaped
    ridge overlooking a cedar swamp.  It was the first Saturday of the
    season, so I could still take a doe.  About 7:30 I heard a soft
    splash in the water boardering the swamp, but could not see anything.
    After what seemed like an eternity, I finally made out the legs
    of the deer that was meandering through the water, but could not
    see the head.  When the deer stepped from behind a tree, I dropped
    him with a single shot from my shotgun that hit him behind the neck.
    This was my first buck, a nice 4-pointer that cashed in at 150 lbs.
    
    Can't wait until November!
    
    Mark.

    Deer season doesn't start around here til Oct 3rd. (Oregon), but
    grouse season has been open a couple of weeks, so I and two others
    from the office went over to the cabin (East Oregon in the Blue
    Mts) to scout and maybe get a few grouse in the process.
    
    After jumping a bunch of blues and blasting away like the marines
    had landed, we walked out on this rim rock and spotted a nice 3
    pt (6 pts for Easterners) bedded down on this hillside in tall grass.
    About 75 yds and not a tree in 300 yards of him.  As we marveled
    why all that shooting didn't spook him, we saw just below him a
    forked horn who raised up to take a look.  Then the monster of the
    ridge (4 pt with well over a 30" spread) also raised his head. 
    They then casually stood up, looked at us and trotted over the hill.
    Had it been open season we would have had enough time to empty all
    our guns.  It's funny the shooting didn't spook them, but I
    think they read the papers too and knew the season wasn't open yet.
                             
    By the way, we got 15 grouse - 11 blues and 4 ruffed.
    

    During the 1981 deer season here in Colorado, we were getting the
    truck stuck alot.  My hunting partner buried his truck in snow,
    sand, and mud 5 times.  The fifth time was in mud on BLM land north
    of Craig, Colorado.  After about 2 hours of trying to get the truck
    out of the mud, a herd of deer walked by real slow, watching us.
    Now we were not being quiet.  We were cusing up a blue streak, kicking
    the truck, and generally discusing the ancestry of anybody and everybody
    who could be remotely responsable for us being stuck.
    
    I looked up a saw the herd of deer.  I turned to my partner and
    yelled (I was mad and tired) "LOOK AT THOSE AS*HOLES, WE'RE STUCK
    AND THEY JUST STAND THERE".  At which time my partner said "SHUT
    UP AND GET YOUR GUN".  I pulled out my 30-30 from the truck, loaded
    one round and fired at the only buck. He was only a spike and I
    took him down at about 148 paces.
    
    After dressing him out, it still took another hour and a half to
    get the truck out.
                      

                    (RE:.1- This Happened.......)
    
                Any buck that is THAT big, but THAT stupid deserves
    to get shot. Hope you nail him. Don't want his genes passed on to
    other deer. Kind of reminds me of the first time I hunted jackelope.
    We had just glassed a big herd and were.........
    
    
    
                   Only kidding....Good Luck 

      Having killed deer from as close as 15 feet and as far away as
    325 yards the most memorable story is my first deer.  Like every
    succesful hunt there is usually something significant (sometimes
    bizzare) and since the bulk of the replies in this note relate to
    deaf/"dumb" deer I thought this might be of interest........
    It was opening day of my first deer season.  I was fresh out of
    hunter safety training and didn't learn anything about deer hunting
    so I didn't know what to expect.  Anyway, my experienced partner
    and I were walking down a path when all of a sudden he stops and
    empties his shotgun (all 5 rounds) at a target that I couldn't see
    until he fired his last shell.  Being inexperienced (but a safe
    hunter) I had to make sure that I didn't shoot myself, my partner,
    or someones house before I started firing  at the "now" running
    deer.  After shooting 5 rounds from the old 9 shot Marlin my partner
    and I attempted to pick up a non-existing bloodtrail.  We missed.
    So my partner sent me on the tracks (there were 2 deer) that led
    up over a small knoll in a pine grove while he circled around. 
    (at the time nothing made sense, now I know he was using me as a
    dog).  When I reached the top of the knoll (which was no more than
    80 yards from where we did all the shooting) there were two deer
    standing about 15 yards from me.  I had a choice so I shot the 4
    pointer.

    
    Well I have a deer story, but it is not about a dumb deer and it
    doesn't have a happy ending.  Last year I missed my first chance
    at my deer.  On the opening Saturday, as I topped a ridge, I saw
    a small doe running almost directly at me and real close, by the
    time I got the scope on her and pulled the trigger she was no more
    than 15 yards away, still coming at me with no idea I existed. 
    Well something tipped her off just as I pulled the trigger, the
    scope was on the center of the chest when she took a 90 degree turn
    and crossed in front of me.  The first shot took off some hair,
    which was found later and just grazed her, the second and third
    were at her running directly in front of my, behind blowdowns, with
    all the afterburners on. Neither of them hit a thing.  Well my uncle
    came around the crown of the hill I just topped and expected to
    see my deer, instead he saw me standing there in disbelief, I am
    a good shot and usually hit what I aim at at that distance, even
    when it is running.  Well we tracked the deer from 10:30 til dark,
    We found the first drop of blood after about 75 yards and then it
    was a steady trail, but very light, thank god for the snow on the
    ground or we never could have trailed her.  This was a very smart
    deer.  It walked in rivers for hundreds of yards at a time, thus
    leaving no tracks and no blood trail, we only found the trail again
    by following the river, one of us on each side and once we thought
    we lost her when I found one drop of blood on a branch that crossed
    the river.  Well she didn't seem to be in much of a hurry because
    she was walking and once in awhile would stop for a minute, even
    bedded down once.  She finally crossed a road and swam across a
    river that was all slush.  By the time we found a way across teh
    river it was very close to dark so we called it quits for the night
    and decided to pick it up again in the morning, well it rained all
    night so we could not find the track.
    
    Also that night I found that one of the scope mounts was loose and
    that one of the bolts you screw the scope on with was gone.  I was
    pissed, this was a new rifle and had all the parts at the beginning
    of the day.  I brought the gun back to the shop that did the work
    and complained, they fixed everything for free and gave me a little
    discount for my trouble.  I can only wonder if the mount was loose
    when I took the shot, did this cause me to miss and wound a deer
    that I could never find??
    
    --Bob

    O.K. Here goes.  When I lived in Maine my roommate, Andy and I use
    to do alot of hunting around South Paris.  A friend of ours father
    owned about 1000 acres that was 75% orchards.  They were a lot of
    big deer and the area was posted.  We use to have the whole place
    to ourselves, it was great.  Anyway, Andy had never killed a deer
    before, so we were trying real hard to get him one.  We had put
    him on a stand by a stonewall while the rest of us strung out along
    the back side of one of the orchards.  The guy who owned the land
    had planned on cutting some deadfalls in the orchard and we figured
    he might push something on to us.  About ten minutes after, we
    sat down I heard shooting from Andys direction, so I went over  He was 
    sitting there shaking his head.  A BIG buck ha walked up _behind_ him and
    by the time he got his gun up it was a Hail Mary shot.  So, after
     I stopped laughing I started back to my stand, I had gone mayby
    100yds when a buck got up about 40 yds in front of me.  I managed
    to drop it, got lucky I guess 8*).  SO along comes Andy, naturally
    pissed cause I shot "his" deer.  To make a long story longer, that
    afternoon he did shoot a buck.  Turns out his deer and mine
    looked like twins, both 8 pointers.  They were both shot within
    200yds of each other.  We had a bet on who would bag the biggest deer.  
    Mine weighed 217 and his went 215!  To this day he says it's cause he 
    gutted his better then I did!!!   They looked great together lying
    in the bed of the truck on the ride home.
    Jeff
      Wanna hear about the moose hunt?????

>      Wanna hear about the moose hunt?????

    
        By all means.

    O.K. you convinced me.
      Andy, the guy in the deer hunting story, managed to get his name
    drawn in the lottery.  So, away we went for Greenville, ME.  The
    place is beutiful, lots of water and woods.  The way the lottery
    worked was that the permit holder gets to take a partner with him.
    You both can carry a gun, but can shoot only one moose.  We got
    up there two days before the season opened to scout.  Half hour
    after we started looking we saw a bull standing in the middle of
    bog, minding his own buisness.  Anyway, we decided to that he was
    going to be our bull.  Since we were sleeping in the back of the
    pick-up, we made camp on a logging road that ran along a ridge above
    the bog.  We had two days to kill, which we did in the only bar
    around.  Had a great time.
      Finally sunrise of opening day!!  Our plan of attack was for us
    each to get on oposite sides of the bog.  That way we could hopefully
    drop him quickly before he got into the deep water.  Since Andy
    had the permit he was to take the first shot, but I could "back
    him up' if needed.  Sure enough, he (the moose) was right where
    we had left him, in the MIDDLE of the bog!  Sh*t now what?  If we
    drop him there we'll need a tug boat to get the $$%^#@ out of the
    water.  So there we sat for an hour and a half waiting for the stupid
    thing to move near shore.  Me on one side and Andy on the other.
     Finally Andy starts to yell at the moose, hoping to spook it towards
    me.  It semi_works, When it gets about 20yds from shore (about 25yds
    from me) Andy lets rip with his 308. from the oposite shore.  That
    moose dropped like a ton of bricks, but got up just as fast!  He
    starts running towards my direction, not knowing I'm also there.
     I start unloading my 35 remington into him and he drops on land
    about 50yds from the logging road.  Now the work begins.  If anyone
    ever tells you moose hunting is easy tell them to try dragging 1000lbs
    of dead weight out of the woods.  You can't do it unless you got
    a winch or something.  We ended up using a come-along and the truck
    to get it to where we could load it in the vehicle.  It checked
    in at 978lbs. Can't wait to do it again.
    Jeff 
                
    

    re: .10
    
    You ought to evaluate your friendship.  If anyone ever fires a gun
    in my direction at a target "25 yards" from me I'd consider him
    brain dead and therefore not worth shooting.....  Sorry if I sound
    harsh, maybe I misread your tactics of establishing a crossfire
    in your planning.
    

      I was waiting for someone to bring this up after I entered the
    note.  I worded it poorly.  We were on opposite shores, but
    the moose wasn't directly between us.
    
    
                             ~               _     _
                            ~                 \   / 
                           ~                   ( )                ~
                          ~              |-----|                 ~    
                         ~               ~-----|          H2o   ~
                          ~                                    ~      
                            ~                                   ~
                             ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~                         ~  ~ ~
                                      me ~                             ~  Andy
                                           ~                            ~ ~ ~
                                            ~                                ~
    Not the worlds greatest artist, but you get the idea.  The bog was         ~
    shaped similar to a wide river, rather then a pond.  It wasn't an
    unsafe situation.  The idea was to keep the animal from dying in
    the deep water. 
                       
            
    Jeff

    Can you tell we went to the same art school???

    I can see I'm gonna have to go back to school or something and learn
    how to draw before I make anymore contributioins to THIS file!!!
    
    I never realize ASCII could be soooooo beautiful!
    
    :-)
    
    Rich

    
       It was cold that December morning. My older brother, my son and
     I were in the hills of northwestern Massachusetts and it was my
    sons first deer hunt. We were staying at a campground and using
    my brothers canvas top tent trailer. The days were unseasonably
    warm but the clear black nites drew the heat from the hills like
    a sponge draws water.
    
      My son was up before dawn but my brother and I were reluctant
    to leave the nice warm sleeping bags and step on the icy floor
    of the camper. We had two electric heaters going to ward off the
    damp chill and they ran all nite giving off a reddish glow like
    the coals in a hardwood fire.
    
      We left the campground late. It was about 7:45AM and got to the
    hunting area about 8:10. We got all the clothing straightened out,
    loaded the shotguns with deerslugs, and headed up the road into
    the hunting area.
    
      We had gone about 100 yards and were chatting about what we would
    do during the days hunt. We hoped we would see deer. My son, in
    his youthful optomism, pictured the woods full of deer just ripe
    for the picking but had the sense to realize this was simply a wish
    rather than reality.
    
      As we rounded a turn in the road, I caught a movement to the right
    of us out of the corner of my eye. A deer was coming down a small
    ridge about 400 feet away. If he kept coming, he would cross the
    road about 100 feet in front of us. We all dropped to one knee and
    stayed as still as statues as the deer came walking steadily down
    the ridge. The adrenelin was pumping full bore in all of us. We
    could not make out whether it was a buck or doe due to the brush
    and leaves still on the oak trees.
    
      The deer veered off about 2/3 of the way down the ridge and moved
    out ahead of us. We still had no idea of it's sex and did not have
    a doe permit. We sent my son ahead of us to see if he could catch
    sight of it and maybe get off a shot. 
    
      We searched for about an hour but never saw the deer again. There
    were lots of tracks and scrapes in the area. The next morning another
    hunter who had decided to stay on a stand in the area bagged the
    big buck. It dressed out at a respectable 185 pounds.
    
      We learned a lot that season. We now pay attention to the hunt
    as soon as we leave the vehicle. We scout the area more prior to
    the hunt. And we get up at earlier so we can get into the woods
    as the light begins to show in the eastern sky.
    
      We learned about clothing and how the wrong kind can make you
    either sweat like a lathering horse or get so cold your limbs hurt.
    We learned about wearing clothes in layers so you can adjust to
    different hunting styles and terrain. But most of all we learned
    about each other and how to anticipate what each of us would do
    in a given situation.  And we learned about tradition and what it
    means to look forward to the yearly hunt and the company of family.
     
     This year we are going both bow and shotgun season. And somehow
    I feel that this is the year. This is the year for all of us to
    finally make the grade and outsmart the elusive bucks that have
    chuckled at our feeble attempts to hunt them.

    re: -1 Yep this is the year...
    
     Got the old 30-06 fixed with a new scope, 2x7 Redfield, no fogging
    problems this year, see through mounts and all. 
    
     Went out scouting earlier, before bow season started, and found
    lots of good fresh sign and animals. No bow hunters showed up opening
    day, so there still should be some around later when rifle opens up.
    
     Don't need the 2 feet of snow we had the night before opening day,
    as in last year. 6 inchs would be nice. Just in case the snow shoes
    have ordered and should come in within the next week or so.
    
     Been hitting the books on habits and habitats of old muley and
    the other guy the Elusive one. I'm as ready as I'll ever be, I guess.
    The last artical I read about Elk said to hunt them the same way
    you would the white tail. After reading it, it made a lot of since.
    
     Now, all I have to do is wait it out until Oct. 31. for the season,
    I choose, to open. Such a long time...
    
    Mark
    
    ps refer to the Firearms notes file for last years romp in the woods.

    Friday after work I brought a friend and his father, both bow hunters
    to one of my stands.  I placed the father at my stand, and dropped
    off my buddy about 500 yards away.  Both stands overlook feeding
    trails coming out of a swamp.
    
    I returned to my friend's father and sat downwind, about 15 yards
    behind him, concealed by some low brush.  After about 20 minutes, we
    heard what sounded like a horse crashing out of the swamp.  Looking
    up toward the direction of the sound, we both froze as a majestic
    buck stood broadside, about 40 yards away from my friend's father.
    As the old man brought his bow up to draw, the buck started to stroll
    with its head down.  The whole time, my heart's pounding so hard
    I can almost hear it.  I have never bow-hunted, nor witnessed a
    bow hunt, and the suspense and the excitement were incredible.
    
    As the deer was moving, he kept lifting his head to check the wind,
    which was swirling.  The buck must have caught our scent, for as
    the old man drew his arrow back the deer bounded back into the
    swamp, kicking up a cloud of mud and leaves.  
    
    After we later returned to the truck, I asked my friend's father
    why he waited so long to draw.  He explained that he is dead-nuts
    on target at 30 yards or less, and because the deer was out his
    "confidence range" and moving, he felt that a miss, or worse a
    misplaced hit was too risky.  I learned alot about self-discipline
    that day.
    
    BTW, the deer had 8 symmetrical points.  Guess which tree I'll be
    sitting at come opening day!?
    
    Mark_still_shaking

    	Hi Mark,
    	Sounds like you'd really like bow hunting if you gave
    it a try. It's a little late this year to get started though.
    	One thing bow hunting seems to develope is some degree of control
    and patience. When your looking at a deer from 40-50 yards and you
    have a gun it's usually an easy shot. With a bow however you would
    probably have to sit and wait and see if the deer got closer. After
    watching a deer for about 2-3 minutes with a bow your heart slows
    down to only twice that of normal :-)

    RAYJ

    How many people out there got their Maine Doe permits (or MA in
    2 weeks)?
    
    Brett.

    Have they been issued (Maine)?  I applied, but haven't heard.
    
    I *did* hear a disturbing rumor from the guide who runs the hunting
    camp we stay at, however.  It seemed that because the amount of
    applications for doe permits was less than the number of permits
    to be issued, everyone who applied was to receive one.  So what
    do they do?  They extend the deadline by a few weeks to allow for
    more applications.  If this is true I'll be ripped.  Not so much
    because I may not get a permit, but because it means that more does
    will probably be taken.
    
    Mark.

    re .22
    	It is true. The Fish and Game Dept decided that they there weren't
    enough applicants by Aug 3, so they extended the deadline till Aug
    12. I can't figure why a dept that is supposed to be trying to increase
    the deer herd would object to the possibility of issuing fewer doe
    permits. Its obviously a case of money pure and simple. The doe
    permit system has been exposed as a money making scheme and it has
    caused a lot of ill feeling the way it was run this year. 
    
    	I had my entry in in plenty of time for the original drawing
    but did not get a permit. You can't help but get pissed off when
    they change the rules in the middle of the game and you loose out
    because of it. 
    
    	At any rate, if you got a permit you should be hearing in a
    week or so.
    
    Good Luck
    Paul

    I got my Any-deer permit on Friday.  I talked to one other guy in
    my hunting party and he got one.  He said that third member of the
    party had also gotten one.  I haven't talked to the others.
    
    Out of 8 of us that stay at the same camp then, 3 of us have permits.
    
    Last year, all 8 of us applied and we didn't get any permits.  Maybe
    it was just luck this year.
    
    Brett.

    I'm just curious, I haven't hunted deer in VT. in about 8-9 years.
    About that time it started to really slow down in the amount of
    deer our party was seeing. I wasn't fortunate enough to hunt there
    during the late 60's, yet I heard it was unbelieveable back then.
    Is anyone hunting there now and if so, how's it going in the past
    few years? I'll tell you the nice things about hunting Vermont were
    the amount of huntable land, and the fact that Sunday hunting were
    permitted.

    Apparently the deer management program is paying off in Vermont!
    The number of deer sighted is rising (at least this year).  Last
    night three of us were out bow hunting and spotted 6.  The night
    before 2 and a few days before that while bird hunting, 1! A guy
    I work with got his on the third day of the season.     This was
    after missing one on opening day!   Another guy saw 6 on opening
    day.   While en route to butcher his kill,  he saw 3-4 more in a
    field. Another friend of mine saw around 6 total in two seperate
    sightings on the same day.   Also, my brother saw one two nights
    in a row, shooting at it the second night, and missing!
    
    In short, the deer herd is alive and well in Vermont.  Also, all
    these sightings have been up north, ie.. Vergennes to Cambrige.
    The Best hunting is down around the Rutland area.
    
    So what do you think?
    
    Ken

  		Plot of deer spotted by Ken Soutiere in Vt.
    
      7  |                             I'd say we have a definite
      6  |             X               problem in Vt and if you
      5  |                             bow hunters out there don't
      4  |                             improve yer aim, the entire
      3  |                             herd is going to starve before
      2  |         X                   the rifle season starts!!! :-)
      1  | X
         +--------------------------
    Oct    8   9  10  11  12  13  14
                                                                     
    
    Data analysis courtesy of Rich Zore
    Actual data provided by .26 (Ken Soutiere), many thanks!!

    This could be a possiblilty considering the last two Sundays it
    snowed up here!
    
    Maybe we should use "Sidewinder missles"!!!!!
    
    Ken

    Friday Oct. 9 - 2 deer & 20 turkeys in Middletown springs
    
    Sat. oct 10 - 2 deer in Poultney
    
    looks good to me
    
    What I need is a pot of glue to keep me sitting still ;-)

    Vermont deer...seen more deer in the last 2 years than 4 years ago...
    I was in Bradford VT. on opening day this year, what a mess...got
    soaked to the bone....with in an hour....the deer were nowhere to
    be found...went out again sunday afternoon in about 4 inches of
    snow...went to another great spot and found nothing....got up on
    Monday and had to pack it in for the ride home...will be back up
    there on the 22nd till the 25th....hope we get more snow.....
    
    see-ya
    Steve

    Another news flash from the cold/wet/snowy hills of VT.
    
    Saw nothing on opening day, couple of the other guys saw 2-3 deer
    on separate occasions, all of us were soaking wet by noon. Afternoon
    hunting turned out to be fruitless as the wind was whipping very
    fiercely, one guy in the party watched as 20 turkeys passed by him
    within 10 yds.                                             
    
    Next day we wake up to a steady pouring rain, only to turn into
    sleet by 11:00 and a full snow by 12:00. went out in the afternoon
    and jumped a couple of deer twice while tracking them. No one else
    saw deer but the tracks were everywhere, goes to show what might
    have happened if we were on stand during the earlier part of the
    snow storm.
    
    Saw nothing this past friday (oct 9), very windy. Saturday nobody
    saw anything, and Sunday I jumped 2 deer into another guy in the
    party, who missed an open field shot at a nice buck (10" spikes).
    I was sure one of the deer was a buck as it was snowing again this
    weekend and the tracking was easy, the missed shot later confirmed
    my suspicions. Saw plenty of geese grazing in the cut corn, but
    no more deer the rest of the day.
    
    Monday, nothing in the morning, jumped two deer in the afternoon
    running shot missed @40 yds...  next weekend!!!!
    
    Fra           
                                          
    
    
    

    What happened this weekend you Deer hunters? Did anyone score yet?
    Well I didn't, yet I'm beginning to pinpoint movement so I'm feeling
    more confident. I'm taking all next week so I'll come back with
    stories.

    I wrote the previous note just prior to lunch. I didn't feel like
    I finished, so I decided to enter another.
    
    I would have thought there would be more new entries now that the
    season is upon us. I am a serious deer hunter so I skip most of
    the notes on hunting chickens(pheasent,grouse,woodcock). The only
    bird hunting I do indulge in is Turkey hunting. The only reason
    I do is that it doesn't conflict, with my deer hunting. From the
    moment the season opens I'm either scouting, or hunting, with bow,
    shotgun, or muzzleloader. I know a lot of people scout deer while
    hunting grouse, but I believe that it just makes the deer more wary.
    So I refrain from even walking around too much in the area where
    I'll be hunting deer.
    
    Just a few thoughts, lets here about more of what happened this
    past weekend from those VT. deer hunters! How about it Fra!

    Welllll!   Up here in northern Vt. (north of I89) hasn't been too
    bad.  We've been spotting them, but unfortunately they don't come
    close enough for a shot. 
    
    I only got to go out on Sunday, and that was since last Sunday...
    Sigh...................
    
    Any other close sightings or "HITS" ?
    
    Ken

    Well, I didn't get up there this past weekend, but a couple of the
    guys did, havn't heard from them yet... I'm gonna try and get up
    there this week sometime... Finally think I have them pinpointed,
    just have to get into the area before they get back from dinner
    and dancing ;^)...
    
    Fra
    
    Kinda surprised theres not much happening in the way of notes from
    the bow hunters.... 

    
    This past weekend I spent driving a ten-wheel 30 some foot
    Ryder from Oklahoma to Mass. 
    I have never seen deer like I saw in New York along I84. I'm
    not exagerating (I swear), I must have seen 150 deer between 
    the Pennsylvania and Connecticut borders. As the kids would have
    said, "Truly AWESOME !!!!" Every time I managed to get the high
    beams on I could see deer grazing on the side of the highway and
    in the median. Pennsylvania wasn't too shabby either (maybe 50),
    'course the roads weren't as easy to drive as NY and I wasn't 
    doing as much looking for "eyes".
    	The road kill wasn't bad either. 1 in Ohio, 3 in Pa, and 0 in
    NY (that I saw).
    
    		Our turn is coming soon,
    
    dave
    
    
    

    Dave,
    
    Doesn't surprise me in the least....I believe you.  I took a friend
    of mine from Mass. out to  Potter County, PA two years ago for opening
    day of Trout season.  (Potter County claims it's the only county
    in the US that doesn't have a traffic light in it----and it's a
    huge county)
    
    My poor friend had a stiff neck when we got there from watching
    all the deer out the side window.  At night they're all over the
    place including the middle of the road.
    
    They aren't the biggest deer inthe world, but there's plenty of
    them.
    
    Brett.

    Thats why I started hunting in NY last year.  I've never seen so
    many deer either.  A friend of mine just got back from bow hunting
    in Sullivan County.  He dropped a 95lb doe his second day out.
    Sullivan County is BEGING people to apply for doe permits this year.
    If they don't get about 6000 more applicants they will either give
    out second doe permits to those who are succesful with the first
    or they will extend the season.  This info comes from a NY state
    warden.
      Jeff

    FINALLY!!!!!!!!!
    
      Went  up to Windham N.Y. last friday Oct 16. I finally bagged
    my first deer ever. on Sunday afternoon at exactly 12 noon. it was
    a 15 yard shot in a small apple field. It was a doe that dreesed
    out to 127ibs, hit her high in the left rear quarter, (the deer
    was standing facing away from me, but looking back at me.) the arrow
    went in at an angle and penetrated both lungs, she ran approx. 50
    yards and dropped. this was the first time i ever hunted New York
    and needless to say i'll be back. Hope to hear other success storys
    from all you bow hunters. Good luck and safe hunting to all.
    
    
                                                   Mike M

    good job Mike, glad to hear some of us are scoring... regarding
    the rear quarter shot, I had the same type of opportunity last year
    and was really amazed at the quickness of the kill... I used to
    think this was a lost opportunity, but after seeing the results,
    a rear ham shot is a deadly one.... again congrats
    
    FRA

    Nice job...word of advice when you get some free time...
    
    Jot down in diary form everything you did leading up to the hunt,
    the hunt itself, and anything you can think of regarding the hunt.
    This should include the wind, the weather, the scent you were wearing,
    any strategy you used, etc.
    
    Next year this will serve a few purposes...
    
    Number 1, it will allow you to take measures to duplicate the success
    of this year's hunt.  Second, it will give you a great feeling to
    relive the success of shooting your first deer. 
    
    If you shot the deer at 15 yards you must be doing something right.
    Again, nice job!
    
    Mark.

    This is in reference to MMcnulty's success story. Atta go! congrads
    and all that stuff. I like to hear about people who score with a
    bow, cause in general I hear a lot of choke stories of missed
    opportunities. I'm hearing lots of good new about N.Y. hunting,
    is it a two deer state? How long of a ride from Mass to some good
    hunting in N.Y.?

    New York State is a one deer state.  They have a doe permit system,
    but non-residents have little chance of getting one.  The ride from
    Lowell to just west of Syracuse is about 5.5 hours.  Not a bad ride,
    since it is on the N.Y. Thruway (Interstate 90).  The non-resident
    license is a little expense - $120 I think for both big game and
    small game.  Less for just big game.
    
    Ed..
    

     Whoa!!!!
      It depends on what you mean by a "one deer" state.  You can take
    one deer bow hunting and another with a rifle.  If you get a doe
    permit, you can take a buck AND a doe, or two bucks, all with a
    rifle.  
      Doe permits.
     Certain zones in New York have more permits then they do applicants.
    In Sullivan county they have extended the deadline on permit
    applications so that they can get more folks to apply. As it stands
    now, everyone who has applied for these areas will get one.
     The price for a non resident big game only license is $80.
               
    Jeff

    Where are the N.H. Blackpowder hunters. I expected that someone
    would have scored by now. I didn't see anything opening day.
    
    Guy

    Neither did I though there was some sign that was fairly fresh.
    I'll probably get out this week during the morning before work.
    Hope to see somthing then.  If I score, well I'm sure my boss'll
    understand me being late. :-)
    
    Rich

    
    	I called the Vermont Fish and Game yesterday to see if
    there were any licensing agents in the Central Mass. area
    (to save a trip up there). The answer unfortunately was "No",
    BUT I discovered that they (Vt F&G) will send a license application
    in the mail. You fill it out, supply proof of a previous license/
    firearms competency/etc..., include the $$$, and they will process
    same day as they receive the application.
    
    	The trip up there would be more fun, but in a pinch this method
    may come in handy.

    I went up hunting in Vermont in September.  I wasn't sure if I had
    time to send for a license before I left.  So, I stopped in the
    Manchester Police Department on the way up.  They will sell you
    a license 24 hours a day with proof of other licenses or hunter
    safety certficate. (In all honesty, they mentioned it to me).
    
    I got there around 10:00 PM and was in and out in 5 minutes.
    
    This is something you may want to keep in mind.
    
    Brett.
    
    P.S.  I'm sure everyone already knows, but you can get a Maine license
    at LL Beans 24 hours as well.  (State Duck stamps too).

    If you get off Rte 91 at exit 2 in Brattleboro and take a right
    on rte. 9, there is a store just up the road that sells licenses.
    They close kind of early, however. Like 5 pm, if I remember.
    
    Didn't know the police sold licenses - must be supplementing their
    budgets :-)

    RE:.49
    
    "the store just up the road..." 
    
    this wouldn't happen to be the little general store on the left,
    would it???
    
    I used to buy my license at a general store on rt 9, i would drive
    into brattleboro from keene on rt 9, take 91 south for one exit,
    right back onto rt 9 and the store was on the left.... if this is
    the place, forget it, their now a restaurant/deli and don't sell
    licenses.... there is a sporting goods store in brattleboro "galanes"
    that sell licenses, not sure what their hours are though.
    
    Fra

    yep, that's the one, it changed owners a few years ago, the new
    owners must have stopped selling them. i last bought there 4
    years ago. Where's galanes ? B'boro should still be the closest
    place for most Mass. hunters.
    
    Dana

    I bought my license there last year and when i called a week before
    the bow season, they had sold again, and the new owners converted
    the place to a restaurant...  Galanes is located on rt 9 in brattleboro
    center (main st???) downtown.
    
    anyways, good luck everyone!
    Fra

      Recieved my doe permit for New York yesterday 8*) 8*) 8*).
    Lookout Bambi.
     Jeff

    Opening day mass archery (this morning)... what a shootenfest...
    had 4 deer run by me 10 minutes into the season... hardly had time
    to drink my dunkin doughnuts coffee...;^)  4 shots, 4 misses!!!
    another guy got off a shot (in the same 2 minutes or so that the
    deer were crashing by) and had an opportunity at another but held
    off for a better shot (never got it)... this all happen in less
    than 2 minutes... only 10-15 minutes into shooting light...
    Unbelievable!!!! not even sure this all happened, as i sit here
    and think about it.... 4 misses!!!!! I should shoot myself!!!! Although
    most of the shots were long 40 yds or so... and arrows were rattling
    off of slashing's...  Had a problem with the peep also, the damn
    thing was pointing the wrong way, first time this has ever happened...
    Gonna put on a Fine Line peep tonight. What an opener...
    
    Fra

    
    Gee, I'm surprised that Steve Niemi hasn't replied here yet.
    
    Anyway, he scored on the opening day of muzzleloader season along
    with the camp owner who was hunting with us. Steve got a button
    buck, and the owner got a large (150lbs) doe.
    
    There's some good info on rifles used/bullets used that I'll let
    Steve talk about on his side. The camp owner was using an H&R
    Springfield Stalker in 58cal loaded with a roundball and poly-
    patch backed by 70 grs. of FFFg. This did the number on his doe
    at about 50 yards. It ran about 100' before collapsing. On exam-
    ining the deer the roundball went clean through the chest about
    an inch or two below the spine. There was absolutely no meat loss
    whatsoever and very little bloodshot on the entrance and exit
    wounds. I was very impressed by the performance of the 58 cal round
    ball and from what I saw I'm going to start using them in my 58cal
    H&R Stalker also...
                       
    Any other success stories out there?
    
    Still hoping for a chance this weekend....
    
    
    Joe

    RE:.55  GREAT JOB STEVE!!!  JOE YOUR DUE!!!
    
    This is just a continuation of .54 , still excited about it I guess...
    The shots I took were at 2 different deer, 1 arrow hit a 4" tree,
    2nd shot at the same deer rattled through brush... 3rd and 4th shots 
    were at the second deer to go by.... third deer flew by 50-60 yds away,
    no shot, and the 4th deer snuck by behind us, again no shot... it
    was something to see them go crashing by... still as exciting as
    ever.... Now that i've embarassed myself... WAIT TILL TOMORROW!!!
    
    Fra
    anybody else seeing/hitting/missing anything.... don't be shy ;^)

    Congrats, Steve...Liver hors-d'ovres anyone???
    
    Mark_counting_down_the_hours_til_Wednesday

    With my annual Maine deer hunting trip fast approaching I thought
    it may be a good idea to question you all to see how you approach
    hunting an area you are not really familiar with. If you are like
    me you have a very limited time to do your actual deer hunting
    and lots of time to think of the mistakes you made last year. 
    Unfortunatly I do not have the luxury of being able to go up to
    the area I'll be hunting and do pre-season scouting. I find myself
    spending the first few day re-familiarizing myself with the changes
    to the landscape due to logging/storms and the many other variables
    that effect the raw woods in the area that I hunt.   
    
    So what so I do? I spend alot of time talking with the people that
    own the camp where we stay. This is helpful but there are lots of
    woods to cover in my very short week.
    
    I try talking with the locals in Jackman, who by the time I get
    up there seem pretty much sick and tired of being asked "So wheres
    all the deer up here?" :)  (last years most clever responce was
    "in the woods!!")
    
    I try and talk with the loggers who I've found to be the most helpful.
    
    Most of all we do alot of stillhunting, just trying to get our bearings
    back. Unfortunatly by the time we usually figure out where we want
    to spend the rest of our time We find that the week is almost over.
    Now don;t get me wrong I really love hunting this section of Maine,
    I realize that that there are other far more "productive" area's
    that I could spend my week!  And in the three years we've hunted
    the area we have seen LOTS of deer.  I'm looking for additional
    tips that you all have found to be helpfull in hunting and area
    you don't know like the back of your hand. And I really do believe
    that finding them is half the fun!
           
    
    Best of luck this year!
    
    Mike

    Mike,
      If I'm hunting an area that I'm unfamiliar with, I aproach it
    much the same way I would bird hunting.  Birds like to hang around
    edges in the cover, any place where the cover changes from one type
    to another. ie; edges of corn fields, hedgerows, drainage ditches.
    Deer do the same thing, only on a larger scale.  I look for area's
    that border logging operations, the edges of meadows, along rivers.
    Any place where the cover switches from one type to another is a
    good place to start.  Once I find an area that has alot of sign,
    stick with it.  Hope this helps.  Good luck.
    Jeff
      ps thks for the boat plans.

    Well first off I'd like to let you all know that the White Angel
    did it again. He scored on a 95lb. doe(the only deer he saw in the
    week of hunting we did. I had my usual luck, seeing plenty out of
    range, while I'm walking, and on the road to and from our spot.
    I explained who the White Angel is in the introductory note, in
    case your wondering.
    
    As for the question at hand. I've got some experience with new area's
    cause in the last eight years I've hunted Mass,Conn,N.J.,Penn,and
    Vermont. That doesn't leave a lot of time to really figure things
    out. I've spent more time trying to figure out which STATE has the
    most to offer.
    
    What we usually do is to scout the usual places when we arrive,edges,
    swamps,fields. Then we try to select different spots away from one
    another so we can pinpoint activity over a broader range. Whomever
    has the most action will discuss sightings and then we'll all converge
    on the hot spot without getting in each others way. It seeems to
    work yet some how it is always Whitey who scores! Bear in mind that
    I'm talking to how we organize to bow hunt. Well gotta go. Later.
    We then

    Finally, I'm able to reply to this note file. When I got back to
    the office I was greeted with a wiped out account. So off to my
    backup.
       Joe, was right, I finally scored on opening day of blackpowder
    in northern NH. About a 70 pound button buck. I was using my T/C
    New Englander with the fifty cal barrel. I was shooting a 385 grain
    Buffalo Bullet backed by 100 grains of FFF black powder. I hit the
    deer just behind the front shoulder as it angled toward me. The
    bullet went clean through taking out about three inches of ribs
    on both sides. The bullet really did a nasty job on the inside of
    the deer. I could almost say the bullet used was overkill. The deer
    ran about 20 feet before it collasped leaving a four foot wide blood
    trail. I figured if I can clean that one, I'll never have a problem ever
    gutting a deer. I am happy to report that no meat got ruined.
        Now all I got to do is to wait for the MA season. 

    
    
       Due to the lack of replies here today (11/11), I presume that
    "everyone" is taking advantage of the snow and is out there hunting??
    
    
                                   4" in Central Mass. with 5 more
    					expected tonight!!
    
    
                                   ~Mike~

    Mike,
    
    Funny you should mention that.  I was sitting here working away
    (normal) minding my own business (unusual) and the phone rang. 
    It was one of the leaders of my hunting party.  We always go up
    to Maine on the 3rd week of November, hence, we were supposed to
    leave on Sunday.
    
    My friend asked what I was doing, to which I replied, "working".
    
    He said, "we're leaving tomorrow at 10:00 AM."  
    
    After I argued that I had work to do, he talked me into tomorrow
    at 4:00.  I think that was really his intention to start with. 
    Since it is going to snow here in Mass again tonight, I guess we
    will be in good shape.
    
    I can't wait!!!!!
    
    Brett.

    Yep, I was gonna wait until Friday to wish everyone luck.  I'm leaving
    for NY on Sat. with Monday being opening day.  Talked with the folks
    who own the land we hunt and they've been seeing deer every day.
    thye also got 6 inches of snow on the ground, which should help to
    improve the odds.  Got my management permit so with any kind of luck, 
    should have venison come the end of the week.  Be back the following Monday.
                 
    Have fun and be careful
    Jeff

    Oops, you blew it Jeff!
    
    You predicted venison by the end of the week.  It's gonna be a tough
    week now.
    
    (I'd offer you some of mine, but I don't want to spoil my luck)
    
    Brett.

    Well just 24 hour to go!!! we're leaving for Jackman Maine Thursday
    night after work!!!!! can't wait. Best of luck to everyone!!
    Mike
    
    I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    

    Sunday...Moosehead Lake...outta here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Good luck and safe hunting everyone.
    
    Mark.

    FRIDAY AFTERNOON..... WOODSTOCK VT........  SEEEEEEEEEYA!!!!
    
    Been hunting in mass for the last 2 weeks and have had some incredible
    things happe... as well as seeing deer almost everyday.... i'm even
    getting some decent shots, can't seem to connect.... murphy could
    write chapters on deer hunting, and make a fortune doin it ;^)
    
    anyways rifle in vt.... yahooo.... good luck to everyone!!!
    
    FRA
    

    	Nothwestern Vermont on Friday morning. Be back as soon as the
    Deer cooperate
    
    	Red Newsham

    I'll be hunting in northwestern Vt. also.....but there is no snow!!!!!
    
    Rain is expected for Sat. morning with highs near 50!  Oh well......
    
    Good luck to everyone.
    
    
    Ken

    	I'm off to Bradford VT Friday nite.  Will be out on my stand
    first thing Saturday morning...Hows the snow fall up there...
    Must be great for tracking...
    
    	GOOD LUCK EVERYONE.....
    
    	Yo Red, You taking the week off....Not me this year, i'll be
    back here tuesday....I hope with a freezer full of venison....
    
    	Stevevan
    

    As I sit here in my study, looking out at the 5 inches of powder
    that fell over night...
    
    Sh*t, man...I'm outta here!
    
    Mark.

    
    	Well, in about 10 hours and 51 minutes, we should be loading
    up for No Pomfret, Vt. Its gonna be a looonnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggg
    day.
    
    		Good luck all. Hunt safe.
    
    dave
    
    PS. Special thanks from me to Guy's wife for watching my kids tonight.

    
	Well, we're back. That was a quick weekend. And a  productive
    one to boot. We ended up being a party of 10. We have two tags 
    filled so far, #1 was only an hour into the day, 161 lb 4 point,
    the second was a 101 lb 3 point. AND there is a ten pointer 
    with a bullet in it being tracked at this very moment by those 
    of us who didn't have to return to work today. Good luck guys.
    
    	Come on Friday.....................   
    
    dave
    

    14 Nov @ 4AM:  I woke up and couldn't get back to sleep.  I lay   
there in the bed from 4 to 5 thinking.  It's regular deer season    
now, should I take the shotgun or the Tenn. Mountain Rifle?  I know   
how the BP rifle shoots.  It's dead on and I've got a good load,    
a 385 grain hollow point mini ball ahead of 100 grains of Pyrodex.    
I can confidently put the round into a 1" circle at 37 yards (my    
back yard range).  It only offers 1 shot though.

    On the other hand I've a new Remington 870SP with deer slug barrel
which I picked up last spring.  Problem is I have done next to nothing
in the way of sighting it in with a given load.  I did fire 6-7 rounds
thru it once this summer and that experiance showed a need to adjust
the sights as well as select a single load to use.  The various
leftover slugs I had were all over the paper.  I'd have to select one
brand and sight in for that.  I haven't done this yet though. Yet it
does offer 5 chances at shooting. 
    
    What to do...? 
    
    I decide to take the muzzle loader. 
    
    7:15AM:  I'm following a fresh trail thru the crunchy snow down   
the side of a small hill.  Ahead the hill bottoms out and rises    
again into another small knoll next to the swamp.  I stop for a    
minute wondering if I should continue.  I'm making what I consider    
a lot of noise in the crunchy snow and since the leaves are gone,    
any deer would see me long before I see them.  What to do...? 
    
    7:16AM:  All of a sudden I hear a noise, somthing moving ahead.   
Now I'm fairly new to this deer hunting game, in fact I'm new to    
hunting period but it doesn't take a genius to realize in a few    
seconds that this isn't a bird or a person or a squirrel.  It's a
deer.  All the old doubts come back flooding to my mind:  "Hey
man, what you doing out here trying to murder some animal.  Your    
raised as a suburbanite, not a farm kid.  Your wife doesn't want    
this in HER kitchen.  Damn thing's just trying to get thru the long   
winter as best it can anyway.".  Suddenly, there he is... 
    
    Bambi with horns... 
    
    And he's running right straight at me.  What to do, what to do.   
All doubts about what I'm about to do completely left mind at that   
point,  the only things I was concious of were a) what was the best  
angle for a shot b) when to shoot and c) this nagging feeling of    
"in 5 minutes I'm gonna be elbow deep in blood & guts, yech!". 
    
    What to do, what to do... 

    That deer is coming straight at me.  Distance maybe 30 yards. 
He's at the bottom of the hill.  The SOB is following his old
trail! And I'm standing on it!  25 yards.  Loping along gracful
and easy.  What a beautiful animal!  20 yards.  15 yards.  10
yards.  All of a sudden the buck looks up and sees me.  Now I
never knew what the emotion of astonishment looked like on a deer
before, I know now.  He reared up on his hind legs and turned to
my right. I've got the rifle to my shoulder and heard the command
in my head, FIRE!  He jumped once, twice, the gun finally bucked
and roared and the deer disappeared in a cloud of white smoke at
what is considered in the military as point blank range. 
    
    Well after the incident, I tried to figure out what went wrong.   
This included some searching as to what happened in my mind as the
buck approached my position.  I've turned it over several times and I
think I finally have the answer.  Despite my reluctance to shoot the
deer I did make the decision to shoot and was trying for an accurate
shot.  I'm not bad when it comes to shooting and in fact if I had hit
this deer it would have been my second.  The first I shot in Penn.,
was a small doe and was running full tilt thru the woods.  I broke
it's back with one shot at about 40 yards with a 308.  In this case I
was fairly calm as evidenced by my reactions just after I missed. 
True my heart was going some but not uncontrolably.  I think that this
was a case of one thing done wrong on my part.  The rifle I have has a
set trigger and it can be fired either set or not set.  If fired set
the trigger takes about 1/2 oz. of pressure before going off, what's
known as a hair trigger.  When not set it takes 15lbs. to fire.  I think
that from the time I heard FIRE in my mind to the time I had enough
pressure on the trigger (and I was squeezing with all my might) to
actually fire the gun was maybe 1.5 seconds.  That is far too long. 
The gun was lined up on the top shoulder when I heard fire, it was
lined up about 2-3" over the buck when it did fire.  I knew, even
before I could see thru the smoke, that I had missed. 

	So all this brings me to the final question, does anyone out
there know if a good trigger job would reduce the pressure need to
fire this gun without set, yet retain the accuracy of the set trigger?
 I know this can be done with regular triggers but I don't know if it
takes special skills/tools to do it with a set trigger. 

Rich 


PS. BTW, my wife was very happy that I had missed.  That afternoon I went
to the store and bought a bunch of slug ammo and sighted in my shotgun.  
Until I get the trigger fixed for a 5lb. pull, I'm using the shotgun.

    re.75
    
      The best thing to do is get rid of the 50cal Hawken or Renegade that
    you've got and get a New Englander with the 50cal barrel. it'll
    cost you a little, but you'll have a better, lighter, trimmer, and
    much more handy gun than those damned Hawken copies...
    
      In 1984 my hunting partner Steve missed an 8pointer that stood
    up in a chopping. He had it dead to rights standing at about 60
    yards. He was using a Renegade in 50cal. He (unconscientiously)
    set the hair trigger before he brought the gun to the shoulder.
    As he was lining up (letting the sights "fall" onto the target)
    it went off prematurely. The bullet went right over the deer's
    back.
    
      This year he took a T/C New Englander in 50cal out there and got
    his deer the first day on a running shot. There's no double set
    triggers to worry about in the N.E.'der. He just aimed and fired.
    
      Set triggers are for the target range and NOT for the quick type
    of shooting that is required in the deer woods!!!
    
    
    Joe

    
    Rich, I read your story and it sounds to me that the trigger isn't
    the issue here. I've hunted for about 16 years now, and have made
    my share of mistakes, so don't take this the wrong way! I think(know)
    you never should have waited til the buck was 10 yards away from
    you, and had spotted you for you to decide to shoot! A 25 yd. shot
    with a smoke pole is a closer than average shot. As a matter of
    fact, 25yds is a good bow shot! I think you experienced a case of
    buck fever!
    
    I also hunt with a muzzleloader and I understand how sloppy and
    how much force it takes to squeeze off a shot when you aren't using
    the set trigger. The first time I shot mine I couldn't believe how
    much play there is before you begin to feel any resistance. I think
    its just a matter of getting used to the gun.
    
    I my years of deer hunting I think the one thing that I've realized
    is that the hardest thing to decide is when to shoot. This is
    especially difficult when bow hunting. There is some amount of doubt
    taking a 40 yd shot with a bow. Yet if a deer presents you a shot
    at 40 and you hesitate for whatever reason(angle not exactly right,
    thought the deer would come closer) 9 times out of 10 you'll either
    loose the shot totally, or end up with a shot worse than you started
    with! If your confident with the range, take the shot!
    
    I'm not saying you should hurry yourself and take the first possible
    shot that you can, but always take the first GOOD shot you get.
    More often than not if you wait too long the deer picks up on your
    presense, and flees the county before you can react. You won't get
    an opportunity for a shot everytime you go out, in fact if you get more
    than one opportunity per season, consider yourself fortunate.
    
    Anyway in the future, good luck!  

    	Who knows?  Maybe it was buck fever!  Thanks for the advice.
    I'm still gonna look into getting the unset trigger to lighten up
    some, 15lbs is far to heavy in my book for any trigger.
    
    Rich
    
    BTW  Maybe it was just a case of the animal lover in me not wanting
    to kill such a beautiful animal.  Who knows?  It makes a great story
    though and was exciting to experiance.  I think I'll take up hunting
    'em with a camera during the off season.  Thanks again for the advice
    in the last 2 replies.

    
    re: .74
    
    	I got an update yesterday from the folks who stayed the extra
    day........ the count is up to 3. Our group took another 4 pointer
    Monday morning 150 pounds (+ or -).
    
    	Friday can't get here soon enough .......
    
    dave

    Re: .75
    
    Rather than having a problem with the trigger of your BP (which
    you may also have), it would appear to me that you waited too long
    to take your shot.  If the deer was within 15 yards and still had
    not seen you, then you had the element of surprise on your side.
     Once he saw you, then the advantage moved closer to his direction,
    as you had to react to what he did when he saw you.
    
    Ed..
    

    Well I would have to say that our opening weekend up in Vt was a
    smashing success, with 3 out of 7 guys cashing in, and a 4th missing
    a spike. I'll let the big Buannas tell their stories, i wouldn't
    do them justice...
    
    All in all it was a great weekend, great weather, good company,
    lots of fun, can't wait to get back their friday...  
    
    Scoring= 2 spikes weighing in at 122 and 100, and a 3 pointer tipping
    the scales at 122...
    
    Fra     

    Opening day in vermont, 100 yards into the woods, 100 lb. spikehorn
    at approx. 75 yards. 6:45 AM. Don't you just love it when a plan
    comes together ?  ;-)   I could learn to like that new rifle.
    
    Lesson learned : never, *NEVER* hunt downhill from the camp :-)
    
    Dana

    I used to have a set trigger on my Renegade.  It was fine for target
    but it cost me the first deer I tried to shoot with it (big racked
    deer too).  I eliminated the problem with simple tools.  If I ever
    go to sell the gun (never sell a proven killer) I can re-install
    the set trigger.
    
    -Dave

    RE:81
    
    Only saw one deer on opening day and didn't get a good enough look
    at it as it flew by me at full tilt.  I barked it and it went an
    additional 10 yards before it stopped to check out the sound.
    Unfortunately that 10 yards put it out of my site.  Oh well ....
    who said it was supposed to work all the time.
    
    Anyway.... did a lot of still hunting and stumbled across a bench
    where I killed a deer a couple of years back.  Terrain where we
    hunt is repetitous.  Saw a lot of sign
    so decided it would be a good place to start off Sundays hunt. 
    The rest is out of the text book.  7:15 a doe and skipper run by
    (figured it had to be another hunter or a buck that pushed them).
    About 15 minutes go by and here comes a spike.... walking with nose
    down right on the tracks of the doe.     Nice down hill drag.
    
    Now it's back to N.H. for a crack at another one.
         
    -Dave
    

    Hi guys,
      Had a great time in New York.  Opening day saw us with seven guys
    in our party.  We all had doe permits which meant that we could
    all bag 0ne buck PLUS an additional deer of either sex.  By 11:30
    Monday morning we had 6 deer hanging (2 does, 3 button bucks, and
    a spike).  Unbelievable!!  I've never seen as many deer brought
    in as I did that morning.  I managed to drop the spike at exactly
    7:15.  He ran about 75 yards after having his heart blown into 4
    pieces by the 200 grain .35 REM.  That evening the guy who's land
    we were hunting finished off the "full house" by scoring on a big
    doe.   So we managed to score 100% on opening day!!!!  First time
    I've ever even come close to seeing this happen.  I filled my doe
    tag on Wednesday, so I was able to bring home two deer.  Had a great
    time.  Saw at least thirty deer.  On the ride up Saturday, we saw
    over 50 deer in fields.  The place is amazing.  Also saw several
    turkeys while hunting.  Weighed the deer at Forest Orchard when
    I got home.  The spike weighed 152 and the doe was 74.  Saw a 12
    pointer that was huge, plus a 6 pointer.  One of the does that was
    shot weighed in at 163!!!  Talked with the guys last night and they
    had gotten a total of 13 deer as of last night.  A coupl of more
    guys came up to hunt.  That made athe total 10 hunters and 13 deer.
    The herd in NY is amazing.  We hunted private land that is ajacent
    to state land.  There are still doe permits avalable in NY (zone
    52).   Rumour has it that they will extend the season if the herd
    is not thinned sufficiently.  Good luck to everyone.
    Jeff

    Just back from Moosehead Lake, Maine.  Tom Davis (DEC- TWO) dropped
    a nice 8-pointer that checked in at 150 lbs.  I grazed the back
    of his neck at 20 yards when he ducked at the last minute.
    
    My Dad got his 5th Big Bucks of Maine Patch in 6 years with a beautiful
    10 point, 213 lb buck.  Dropped him while bounding over a blowdown.
    Unbelievable shot - mid-air from 25 yards through the lungs.  Sucker
    was dead before he hit the ground.  Nice job, Dad!  Gotta go...fill
    in the details tomorrow.
    
    Mark.

    Well we're back ( man can a week in the woods really go by that
    fast!) We managed to get 1 beautiful 8 pointer, our first in Maine!
    Place : Johnston Mountain 15 miles south of Jackman Maine.
    The weather was unblievably warm for the first part of the week
    and the woods were very loud. We arrived Friday the 13th and were
    in the woods by 1:30 that afternoon. We checked in real fast and
    dashed over to our favorite area only to discover the lunar like
    landscape left by the scott paper logging crews. After this
    disapointment we just decided to start checking another spot and
    talk with the cabin owners when we got back. He told us of a few
    hot spots where deer had been killed and we spent til Wednesday
    cheking them out. We did'nt even see a flag until Wednesday late
    morning and we were starting to get very disapponted, but we continued
    on. We were in the woods every morning by 5:30 and continued hunting
    hard until 2:30 when we'd get together to compare notes have lunch
    and head back in until 4:15.
                               
    Thurdsay first morning to over sleep all week, arrive at the woods
    at 7:15, drop my buddy Jeff off at a spot he liked and I proceded
    up the road to hunt a nice area I found. I still hunt all morning
    and agreee to meet Jeff at 2:00. I managed to junp a deer at about
    1:30 and took off after it not knowing for sure what I was after,
    Never fount it again and I realized I was a 1/2 hour late to meet
    Jeff. I beat feet back to the trunk and head over to where I droped
    him off, as I ride over the crest of a loggin road I see his orange
    hunting coat on the road. As I get closer I see the biggest SH*T
    eating grin on his face and he gives me the Thumbs up sign. YEE
    F^&*() HA at last. "Where Is He I ask?" and he starts filling me
    in. He was sitting close to some fresh scrapes and had put out some
    doe in heat scent when about 11:15 he hears some crashing over to
    his left. He turned around and about 60 yds away he see's a "monster
    buck" just standing there nose up in the air. The buck proceded
    towards him and stops directly behind a huge birch tree 30 yards
    away. The buck stepped out from behind the tree and stops, Jeff
    brings the 35 up to his shoulder and wham, hits the buck square
    in the left shoulder! But does he drop Hell no, Took off like  he'd
    seen a ghost. Jeff stands up in amazement, "I couldn't %^&* believe
    it!!!" he has a couple of smokes and begins to track the deer. Doesn't
    he go through a damn maple ridge (Lots of fun looking for a blood
    trail onm red mable leaves) and down a cliff (well it damn sure
    felt like a cliff to me) and heads to the water. well the deer apears
    to be bleading good, and Jeff had jumped him twice when he decides
    to wait to find me, and hopefully let the animal die. 
    
    By the time we finshished talking it was getting dark and we decide
    to get the animal in the a.m. Try and sleep forget it we both tossed
    and turned all night til we decided at 4:00 to make breakfast early
    and head to the woods. We proceded direectly to where Jeff had last
    seen the deer expecting to be looking for a dead buck. We walked
    about 100 yds ant up he goes and heads further down river. Sh_T
    Now what. Jeff decides to traverse the ridge where he can see into
    the thickets, and I would head along the river. Time 6:55 am. I
    hear  a splash, there he is in the middle of the rive the biggest
    buck I'd ever seen. I jump and he's on the opposite bank. I bring
    up my '06 put the cross hairs behind his shoulders and SQEEEEAAZE,
    (everthing was in slow motion now) the buck instantly dropped to
    his knees and dies!!!
    
    "DID YOU GET HIM?!!"
    
    " HE'S DOWN!! HE'S BEAUTIFUL"
    
    "YYYYYYYYYYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH"
    
    7:05 we both approach the deer, he's dead and not going any where,
    unloaded our rifles and had a butt. Cleanned him out, Not as bad
    as I had envisioned. and the drag began. Hasd him on the truck by
    10:00a.m. and headed to Jackman to check him in. 152lbs
    We had had it after the drag, and took the rest of the day off.
    
    Friday night the temp took a dip, and we got a little smow. I headed
    into the woods for my last day of hunting to try and fill my tag
    now. Walked until 10:00 before spotting a very small track. What
    the hell says I and off I go at 2:30 I Jump a tiny doe couldn't
    have been more that 60 lbs on the hoof, I dropped the gun and had
    a heck of a laugh and headed back to the truck.
    
    Well Jeff got his first buck, Won the camp pool, I got an assist,
    and let him buy me a prime rib for my efforts,(not to mentioned
    several cold 7&7's!!) and we were both two very happy hunters heading
    back to Mass!!!
                                 
    

    Back to recap last week's hunt at Moosehead Lake, Maine.
    
    The first few days were spent getting re-aclimated to the area,
    which involved some still-hunting around the Kennebec River and
    Seboomok Lake areas.  Saw alot of sign (psuedo-fresh scrapes, rubs
    and droppings).  It was interesting to see the size of the rubs
    in the areas we hunted.  Some of the trees had punctures 8-10 inches
    above the rub, which indicated to us that there were definitely
    some large bucks roaming the area.  At that point we had not yet
    seen any deer, however due to the activity, they were definitely
    nearby.
        
    On Thursday, things changed however.  We decided to hunt in an area
    that abutted the campground we were staying at as other hunters
    in the campground had taken some shots at a good size buck.  Walking
    along a gravel utility road leading out to the point, we noted several
    large deer walking the road the night before by the fresh prints
    that were skirting both sides of the road.  We split up by a distance
    of about 150 yards and entered the woods at daylight on one side
    of the road.  Both Tom Davis and my dad were on my left side. The
    other fellas from the campground were entering the woods from the
    other side of the point, about 3/4 miles straight ahead, so we
    anticipated some action that morning.
    
    Pussy-footing around and keeping my senses on alert, I noted that
    not too many deer were holed up in the area due to lack of any fresh
    sign.  About an hour later, while kneeling under a large hemlock
    tree, I heard some footsteps approaching me from the left, about
    20 yards away.  Looking up, I saw the antlers of a nice buck break
    through some brush.  The deer was moving slowly, with his head to
    the ground - slow enough that I had enough time to count at least
    6 points on a modest size rack.  The deer had no idea that I was
    kneeling to his left, only about 20 yards away, as the wind was
    in my favor and I had frozen my position.
    
    Slowly bringing my rifle to my shoulder, I picked a spot between
    2 trees that was slightly ahead of the area he was heading for.
    As the deer walked through the opening, I had the opportunity for
    a good neck shot, which I squeezed off without the deer realizing
    my position.  I swore I hit him, as he hesitated for a moment before
    bounding up the hill behind me to my left.  Waiting about 10 minutes,
    I checked the area he was standing for blood or hair with no luck.
    
    That's when I heard Tom's .30-.30 unload.  Slowly moving in his
    direction, I saw Tom standing at the top of a hill, where he signaled
    to me to come up.  Tom took a lung shot, using his scope, explaining
    that he was certain of a hit.  We searched the whole area for sign
    of a hit, again to no avail.  After about 30 minutes, we started
    out on the deer's trail, with Tom following the prints, and me working
    back and forth looking for blood.  While standing on a stump, Tom
    hollered that he saw the deer laying down in a pine knoll, still
    alive.  One shot to the neck by Tom and the boys had one for the
    meat pole.  Wahoo!  The 8-pointer checked in at 150 lbs.
    
    Looking over the deer, we found a evidence that my shot had grazed
    his right shoulder.  There was a large line of fur missing, with
    a fresh scratch the length of the crease with some minor bleeding.
    Apparently, the buck must have dropped his head while turning to
    look at me at the instant I shot.  DAMN!
    
    The last day of the season welcomed us with about 2 inches of fresh
    snow, but WAS IT F$%#ing COLD!  My dad had spooked a group of deer
    out of their beds in a small alder swamp, so for the first couple
    of hours he and I took stands while Tom beat the bush.  After this
    proved unsuccessful, we split up, with the strategy that we all
    approach the bedding area from different angles.  I should note
    that the area was strewn with rubs that would knock your socks off.
    
    I was standing on the top of a beechwood ridge, cursing to myself
    how cold it was, when I heard the unmistaken sound of my dad's 308
    boom about 150 yards down hill.  About 1 minute later I hear him
    let out a war-cry that only meant one thing...He dropped a large
    buck.  Sprinting down to the area we he shot, I found him standing
    over a huge 10-point buck, whose neck was so swollen from the rut
    that he looked like a Penn State Linebacker!  The antler spread
    was absolutely tremendous.  I estimated the deer would go 210 field
    dressed, which was slightly less than the actual weight of 213 lbs.
    Dad must be doing something right, as this would be his 5th Big
    Bucks of Maine Patch in 6 years, everyone of which I dragged out
    of the woods with him.  Some damn good memories.  
    
    As it turned out, he killed this deer with an incredible running
    shot at the deer while it was bounding over some blowdown from about 30
    yards.  The shot took out one lung, and that bad boy was dead before
    it hit the ground.
    
    All in all, it was a terrific week.  Plenty of good food, cribbage
    and serious hunting in an area that is absolutely beautiful to the
    eye.  Already counting down to next year's trip.
    
    Mark.

    
    
       Well the official start of Mass. Shotgun season started today
    and I'm here at work staying "dry" :-).
    
       I'd like to just relay my observations that I saw yesterday
    while driving through western Mass. (returning from relatives in
    NY).
    
       Don't get me wrong but I'm playing the "Devil's advocate"
    here.                 
                          
       We (my family & myself) stopped in No. Adams for a "late" lunch
    and I was doing some people watching and I noticed one thing. I
    could tell you who was a deer hunter just by what he was wearing
    coming into the "Burger King" and the most prevalent article was
    "Hunter orange" something (either hat or coat or gloves). Maybe
    I'm "all wet" here, but watching "other" people "gawk" at these
    "deer hunters" was interesting in itself. I enjoy hunting just
    as much as the next guy, but (this is my opinion) I don't think
    we as hunters have to "push" ourselves on others by BROADCASTING
    with our "Bright" orange stuff.
       Maybe I'm getting hung-up on "image" here. I feel that we as
    hunters can wear "street" clothes for traveling and hunting clothes
    for hunting.          
        Since this note is related mostly to "Deer Hunting" I have
    put it here...
    
                      Comments?? (Creeeeeak goes Pandora's box):-)
    
    
                                       ~Mike~

                  so what

    re .89
    
      I have to agree with you Mike.
    
      Imagine a bowhunter going into Burger King with camo-paint all
    over his face. Boy, would he get the stares. It's really the same
    thing with blaze orange. I think that blaze orange crap should be re-
    served for the field. *To some people* blaze orange says "THATS RIGHT BOY,
    I HUNTS DEERS". I guess you could say it's a form of stereotyping.
    I know a lot of people who detest seeing gun owners riding in their
    pickups with guns in the back window. I've heard them call these
    gun owners "Rambo" or words to that effect for displaying their
    guns out in the open like they do, even when it's nothing more than
    a nice side by side shotgun in the rack. I must admit I feel the
    same way about "Yuppies" (You know, BMW's, skis on the top of the
    car, strings on their sunglasses, yeech!)
    
      There are places where wearing hunting clothes doesn't turn a
    head at all. Go into Colebrook NH with full woolies on and it won't
    turn a head. Try that in Nashua and you'll be getting the stares!
    
      Last year while we drove home from the hunting camp we went through
    a few places that were completely opposite. We had a deer on top
    of the car. Going through Berlin NH all we got were the "thumbs
    up" sign from people everywhere. Going through North Conway though
    was a different story! We were stopped at a traffic light when this
    lady comes out of one of the "boutiques" and upon seeing the dead
    deer on top of the car shreeks "Oh my Goddddddd!!!!"
                                                        
      Save the blaze orange for (where it's required) the deer woods!
    
    
    Joe
    
      

    geeeze... I certainly do NOT want to start another 'dogs in the
    woods debate', but I will wear what I want thank you. To each there
    own... I mean, if it bothers anybody to see hunter orange... tuff..
    I honestly don't think many people care... I mean we have all seen
    FAR more outrageous dress than hunter orange! Now.. the bow hunter's
    face would get a few stares... but again big deal! My six year old
    has a hunter orange hat... but he doesn't hunt...
    
    I don't think people care... but maybe they are saying to themselves
    "look at that... a small boy is out deerhunting... that parent does
    not know how to bring up a child...."
    
     Smitty

    
    I agree with Mike, if the hunter orange makes people uncomfortable,
    then why wear it there, it is no inconvienence (usually) to put
    it on were you get out of the car.  True you have the right to wear
    what ever you want, but think of how you react when you see someone
    dressed as a punk rocker (just an example) they are instantly
    stereotyped as a good for nothing druggie.  Well when some people
    see the hunter orange, they stereotype you as a blood thirsty killer
    of bambi.  True this should not happen but it does, so why expose
    yourself to it??  If you are in a place where it is accepted then
    find wear it.  It is similar to people smoking in public places,
    they are not allowed to do it in certain places because it makes
    others uncomfortable.  So if you wearing your hunter orange makes
    others uncomfortable, then why do it??
    
    --Bob
    

    
    Well now that deer season is over here in NH, I will enter what
    my season was like.
    
    There was more sign and deer sighted than in the last 10 years.
    The season started off good.  At 7:30 opening Saturday (Either sex
    season still in effect), my Uncle is walking along and notices a
    stump about 75 yards away that has no snow on it. Well it had been
    snowing all night and it was still snowing pretty good. As he is
    watching the stump, on of  the brances moves, so he looks throught
    the scope, and what to his wondering eyes should appear, but a very
    large doe head, just looking at him and letting him walk by. This
    is the first shot he has gotten in about 8 years, so he missed.
    After rounding up myself and my father we start tracking the deer
    in the 6 inches of snow.  After about 2 hours of going up hill after
    the deer, which has turned into 2 deer, so we 3 are now following
    2 sets of tracks. My uncle and father are talking over whether or
    not to give up the track, I am about 75 yards off to the side of
    them. Suddenly I see my Uncle put up his gun and shoot. I never
    saw the deer and my father was blocked out by a tree.  My Uncle
    hits the deer straight on in the chest and the deer takes off.
    As he runs by, my father puts one shot into his chest at about 20
    yards (44 mag), then he still keeps going and I put a .30-06 into
    his neck, a few step later the deer is down for good.  A buck for
    my Uncle.  4 point 125lbs. Funny rack, one side is a beautifull
    3 point side, the other side is spiked.
    
    Next day, I see a doe about 75 yards away just walking along, to
    bad doe season is over.  My father jumps one but only sees the flag.
    Sunday: Walking along the edge of the road to get to the trail.
    I look at my father to say something and see a deer in the woods
    about 50 yards in. Could not see the head and suddenly the deer
    seems to disappear.
    
    Next weekend: My brother in law is there on his first hunt, everyone
    sees lots of tracks.  As he walks be a big rock, the rock growls
    at him.  He thinks bear, panicks and heads for some help.  Bear
    tracks were all over the place when I finally convinced him we should
    go look. It seems he is paranoid about bears.
    
    3rd weekend: No deer, but I had a coyote almost walk into my lap.
    while eating lunch on a hardwood ridge I look up and see this big
    dog walking towards me, I figure no dog should be this far in the
    woods grabbed my rifle and look through the scope, that ain't no
    dog.  When he get 50 yards away I stand up, hoping he sees me and
    goes away, I did not want to shoot him, then have to deal with him
    this far into the woods (about 2 1/2 miles).  He gets to 25 yards
    and still coming straight at me. I was up against a very large rock
    and my siloette is totally absorbed by the rock.  At 25 yards I
    decide he either doesn't see me or wants my lunch.  So I do what
    any friendly person would do, I say "Hi" to him. At the sound of
    my voice he stopped like he ran into a wall and the look on his
    face was "Where the heck did you come from?". By this time the gun
    is up, safety off and the cross hairs dead center. He crouches and
    I decide if he takes one step, he is dead. He then runs off to the
    side.
    
    Thanksgiving weekend: Lots of people with us, seemed we all new
    someone who was the only one in his party without a deer, plus cousins
    home from college etc. 10:30 AM Friday. A shot rings out real close
    to me.  A single shot, I figure someone has a deer. Who ever it
    was does not signal. Nothing else happens the rest of the day. 
    At the end of the day, my father and a friend get dropped off by
    a passing truck, it seems that the friend was sitting just below
    the edge of a swamp and a 6 point buck walked out and started feeding
    on the beachnut saplings. At 120 yds he takes the shot, the deer
    takes off, he goes over and finds lots of blood. He and my father
    track him all day, never see him again, Rain that night washes away
    most of the snow.
    Saturday, The rain last night turned to snow and froze, its real
    loud walking. My brother in law hears deer walking towards him.
    About 85 yards out a small deer steps between 2 trees, no antlers,
    then the deer turns and looks at him, now there are small spikes,
    he raises his open sighted 30-30 and the deer is gone. Then big
    daddy steps into the same opening, no doubt about it there are antlers.
    He passes on the shot because of trouble seeing the gray deer against
    the gray background between the gray trees. He also is not sure
    of his capabilities with the 30-30 at that range. Well all 4 deer,
    at least 3 buck go through the opening. No shots. Suddenly the deer
    turn and go back the way they came, walking alittle faster than
    on the way down, but in no hurry, why you ask did they turn around?
    This is what my brother-in-law is asking. About a minute later,
    here I come over the top of the ridge, they either heard me in the
    crunchy snow, or smelled me. It takes me about 1 1/2 minutes to
    figure out what happened because my brother in law could not form
    a full sentence to save his life, he was a little excited, these
    were the first deer he has ever seen in the woods and one of them
    was very BIG. He took me to were he sat and he looked through my
    scope to where the deer were, He can see fine through the scope.
    He now wants a gun with a scope instead of the open sights. A deer
    hunter was born that day.
    
    Sunday, nothing. Very windy.
    
    All in all a very fun season, though only 1 deer was taken, there
    were several seen by everyone, and lots of sign, a big improvement
    over the last few years, it seems that NH is getting the deer herd
    back on track.  I'll be back next year, maybe that will be my year
    to collect my first deer.
    
    --Bob
    

                 Well, just heard from my brother Monday night. He shot
    an eight pointer. Dressed out to 148 lbs. Got it in Penn. His buddy
    shot a nine pointer. Dressed out to 181 lbs. He said they were in
    and out of the woods by 12:15 in the afternoon. Saw alot of doe too.
                 Figures, I went out several times, all day, here in NH
    and helped drag one but that was about it. Still got till the 13th.
    maybe I'll get lucky! 
    
                        Still trying,
                          Bob

    Well another year gone in n.h. sure did go by fast.anyway out of
    5 guys 1 doe, 1 coyote.

    I don't have a problem with people or myself in town with blaze orange
    on. Wear what you what. Some of the towns here is Co. make a living
    on the revenue generated during hunting season. You almost feel
    out of style if your not in blaze orange.
    
    What I have a problem with is strapping your deer/elk whatever on
    the top of your car/truck. Put a tarp over it at least ! I got a
    shell for my truck that has tinted windows, hauling animals around
    was one of the reasons for this.

    Re:-1
      Some states require that deer be in plain view while being
    transported.
    Jeff

    Re: .97, .98
    
    I just finished my hunter safety class here in Colorado, and they
    *really* push for you to cover your game.  Interesting that in Colorado
    you are termed a responsible hunter when you cover it (no law that
    says it must be covered), but in other states you are required to *not*
    cover it by law!
    
                          Roak

    In NH you must show it, or at least a portion of it while in transport.
    
    Two years ago I got a deer straight through the nose with a 375
    win. Needless to say the head was a mess. I covered the head and
    front shoulders with a large trash bag and that effectively hid
    that awful sight on the long drive home...
    
    
    Joe

    I'm from the old school,and i will continue to place my deer on
    the roof in plain view,i will also wear what i want when i want,i
    am a good hunter with the highest respect for game,and need not
    hide who i am or the deer ive taken from anyone.you see sportsplayers
    in their uniforms,why should i hide mine.besides 99.9% of all hunters
    feel more for animals than the nonhunters,so if it makes people
    uneasy then i'm sorry,but i will never be ashamed of who i am,or
    the game i take,for only WE know the challenge,and just seeing a
    deer in the woods what it does to a person.no one other than us
    the hunter is doing anything to help the herd,no matter what they
    say.think about it,when we have a real bad snow storm ,i'm thinking
    of the deer,the nonhunters are thinking ski time.
    
    forever faithful,
    Rick......

                  Ah, excuse me, is this the Official Debate Note or
    the Official Deer Hunting note? 
                  Pleeeaaaase, don't anyone take this the wrong way.
    Let's just stay on track, maybe? I just feel another, dog in the
    wild fued, coming on here.
    
                   Bob

    Well, I finally broke my long dry spell!  This year I got one and
    a half bucks.  Let me explain that...
    
    Opening day was Monday 11/23 (this is in West Virginia, BTW).  Saw
    *lots* of does, no bucks.  Stayed out allllll day long.
    
    Tuesday, finishing lunch with my Dad about 12:45.  Heard something
    coming up the hollow down from where we were sitting.  Kept watching
    for it, finally (about 15 minutes later) there it comes, a Buck!!! My
    father and I both bring the .30-06's to our shoulders.  He whispers,
    "Take him."  I line up my shot, but his kill zone is behind a small
    tree (from my angle, not my father's...)  About this time, my father
    says "He's seen us...shoot him"  At the same time, the deer looks right
    at me and presents me with a nice neck shot.  Just as I am squeezing
    the trigger, my Dad cuts loose instantly followed by me.  It sounded
    almost like one *very* loud shot.  The deer pitched over and kicked
    twice and then laid there.  It was about 40 yards away in heavy cover.
    As we walked over to it, my dad asked where I aimed (after bitching at
    me for taking so long to shoot...)  I told him, "Low on the neck."  He
    said, "So did I."  We got down to the deer and there were two bullet
    holes side by side seperated by less than 1/4".  Deer was a three-point
    (it only had the right antler, the left was broken off; probably in a
    fight.)  When we assesed the damage to the deer later, we could see
    where my bullet had passed through, breaking the shoulder and punching
    a nice, neat hole in the liver.  My fathers had angled through and
    lodged in the other shoulder.  Since my father actually did shoot
    first, he checked it.  Weighed in at 125 pounds field dressed. 
    
    Wednesday, back at the same spot with my brother-in-law.  He had gone
    around to the other side of the hollow and I was sitting in the same
    place as the day before.  About 2:00 - same thing; heard something
    coming up the hollow.  About 10 minutes later, I saw the rack.  I
    didn't see the deer until *after* I spotted the rack. Brought the rifle
    to bear, but he was obscured by the trees.  Finally, he stopped and
    looked over in my direction.  His neck was very nicely framed between
    two trees. BANG!  Down he fell, kicked three times and then was still.
    I went over and looked and I had hit him in almost the same spot as the
    one the day before.  This time, though, it was less straight on.  On
    gutting it, I found that I had blown off half of his heart (and broken
    the shoulder in the process.) This one was at about 55 yards.  He was a
    seven-pointer and checked in at 150 pounds. 

    Right now, all four hams are being soaked in brine in preparation
    for being smoked in apple wood.  Yummm....  Tenderloin for dinner
    tonight!!!  Double-Yummmm....
    
    Good luck to the rest of you this season.  I'm ready for next season,
    now.  ;^)
    
    Perry 

    	My 15 yr. old son outshot me again this year (second year in
    a row) with a 4 pt. at 8:30am on the first day of buck season. 
    I missed mine, but he managed to drop his right at my feet.  Really,
    the deer he shot ran right to my tree stand and fell over.
    
    Hey BEAR,  Mateer got a ten point on Saturday, I'm on my way back
    up to camp on Friday to hunt buck on Sat. and then doe season Monday
    and Tuesday.

    Maine, NO.. Vermont, NO.. New Hampshire, NO.. Pennsylvania, NO..
    		           MASSACHUSETTS
    We used to spend LOTS of money hunting out of state with little
    success. This year we decided to hunt in our own state, Massachusetts..
    In fact on Saturday I decided to hunt in my own town..
    By 10:00 we had seen 3 deer, 2 does, and 1 good sized buck.
    After eight years of hunting out of state with no deer, I finally
    got one in my own hometown. 7 pts. 143lbs. dressed. 
    From what I've seen and heard I think Mass certainly has it's share
    of deer. And not just little ones either. There were 9 deer taken
    from North Acton alone. One was an 8pt 218lbs., not bad!! There
    were several deer taken in my town including a 9 pt 190lbs.
    I've been reading lots of stories about out-of-state deer taken
    in this file, what I'm saying to you Mass guys is don't overlook
    your own backyard. I'm certainly glad I didn't..
    

    I'll second that vote for Massachusetts deer. If I had had a doe
    permit this year I could have scored on about a 150lbs + doe in
    north central mass. Haven't seen any horns yet but there is always
    tomorrow. Black powder season is around the corner and I'll be looking
    for that big doe then.........
    
    sjn

    Well I checked my backyard, didn't find any. Everyones backyard
    isn't the same I guess!

    RE.105
    
    
    	Rick,
    
    		How did the new 870SP handle ? Did you use it to
    take the Deer ? Congrats on the Venison..
    
    	Red

    It handled ok.. To tell the truth I think the action is crude, and
    the gun is too heavy. However, it didn't jam while my brother-in-law's
    new Winchester did. I'm not sure if the the Winchester jam was operator
    error or the gun. The sights on the Remington are better than the
    Winchester and I'm sure this aided in getting the deer at 100 yds.
    At least after spending $340. I am going to try and believe it wasn't
    pure luck!!
    
    Rick...
    

    	Went to my usual spot in N.H. and seen 3 deer where we park
    the truck. My friend, who was driving and who is also getting desperate
    this late in the year, was hoping they would cross the road so he
    could bag one with his Bronco. They didn't cross the road so I don't
    know if he was kidding or not. We tracked them to the edge of posted
    land and that was that.
    
    	Although not related to deer hunting specifically, I noticed
    something that is supposed to be peculiar in the Mass. F+G rules.	
    About the only thing that was closed in Mass. last weekend was Bullfrog
    and I think Turkey. From what I understand this is very unusual
    for Mass.. A couple of people that hunt Mass. told me that when
    shotgun season is open for deer, all other seasons are closed. Anyone
    know if this is new or normal ????
    
    RAYJ

    I think that was the way it was when I was hunting in Mass. in the
    late 70's.  They close all other seasons during the regular deer
    season.  Personaly speaking, after seeing the kinds of people that
    go into the woods with a loaded gun during the regular season I
    think it may be a wise thing to do, at least in the eastern half
    of the state.  The western part of the state is a lot like NH and
    has always had "those crazy Bostonians" pushing all kinds of rules
    and regs on them.  I guess we all have our cross to bear. :-)
    
    Rich

    re:.110
    
    	Bullfrog season???  Are you serious?  What are the bag limits?
    
    	Interesting....

    Two more taken in N. Acton........
    
    Two more deer were taken in N. Acton, both 8 pts. approx. 170lbs.
    One spike was missed. This is all within 3 miles of AKO!!
    
    Rick..
    

    re:111
    	I don't know from your reply if you understood what I said.
    The people I know that hunt Mass. were wrong according to the 1987
    Fish and Game rules. Evidently, they changed the rules so that it was 
    OPEN season on just about everything this year DURING deer season.
    I was just wondering if this was the first year they did that ?

    re:112
    	I never kid about things like that :-). Seriously, Mass. has
    a Bullfrog season that ends some time in Sept.. They also have a
    snapping turtle season but if you look at the dates given you'll
    find that it never closes.
    
    BTW - I think the bag limit on bullfrogs is 20 per day.

    I copied this from the Dave Barry notefile. Dave is a nationally
    syndicated humorist with a somewhat twisted view of the world.
    
    Moderator, please feel free to move or delete this if it doesn't
    belong under the official deer hunting note.
    
    ============================================================
        

       <<< HYDRA::DISK$NOTES$LIBRARY:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DAVE_BARRY.NOTE;1 >>>
================================================================================
Note 94.0                     A Hunting we will go                     5 replies
TAS::SMITH                                          101 lines  19-NOV-1984 13:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            A Hunting we will go, 
                        Look out for antlers and snakes
                               By Dave Barry
                      [From the Cheyenne Edition 11/16/84]


Rest easy, hunters:  This is not one of those namby-pamby, sob-sister
ecology-nut articles about how hunting is awful because it kills 
innocent little unarmed deer.  I have no time for that kind of tripe.
For one thing, why is everybody so sure the deer are unarmed?  I mean,
sure they don't carry weapons in plain sight, but neither do your other
hardened criminals.

For all we know, deer have all kinds of rifles and bazookas, stashed
out in the woods, camouflaged in their salt licks.  What would you say
if I told you that many unexplained bazooka murders occur every year
in states that deer are known to frequent?  And what do you make of
the fact that since the FBI began keeping such statistics, no deer
has ever been charged with murder?  Coincidence, you say?  Don't 
make me laugh.

In many parts of the country this is the deer-hunting season.  In
fact, the season may already be over for hunters who use bows and
arrows.  They're usually allowed to start early, because no hunter
in recorded history has ever hit a deer, or any other moving object,
with an arrow.  That is why the Indians, who once controlled the whole
country, now control about 95 square feet of North Dakota.


                           Aim for Antlers

But he archers were out there anyway, stalking around, trying to get close
enough to hit a deer with an arrow, which means within nine inches.  The
deer find this immensely amusing.  They sit around their salt licks, snickering
as they polish their bazookas and paw through old copies of "Guns and Ammo"
magazine.

Whether hunters use arrows or guns, they're usually allowed to shoot only
at deer with antlers.  Antlers are the things that grow out of the heads
of male deer.  They look strange, but they actually serve an important
purpose.  At least I assume they serve an important purpose.  They
sure look strange.  

Here's an Amazing Deer Fact:  Scientist can tell, simply by counting the
number of points on a deer's antlers how painful it would be to fall on
them from a great height.

A lot of people got the wrong impression about deer hunters from the
movie "The Deer Hunter."  They came away thinking that all deer hunters
are semi-literate, beer-swilling slobs who eat could cuts without putting
bread around them and curse a lot and shoot themselves in the head for
money.  This is a gross exaggeration, especially the part about not
using bread.

The truth is that deer-hunting is a peck of woodsy fun.  You should give
it a try.  You'll need a gun.  Guns come in many sizes, which are known
as "gun sizes."  The smallest is the 22-caliber gun size, but you should
not use it because the only way to kill a deer with a 22-caliber bullet is 
to put poison on it and get the deer to swallow it.  The best gun size
for deer hunting is the .357 magnum, which can bring down a deer and 
whatever building it is hiding in.

Next you'll need some warm, tough boots that snakes can't bite through,
because Lord knows they will try.  You'll also need a warm outfit.
Choose it carefully.  If you look like a deer, the other hunters will
shoot at you; if you look like a hunter, the deer will shoot at you.
Try to choose an outfit that makes you look like somebody both sides
would respect such as Walt Disney or Albert Schweitzer.

You should have a hunting license.  If you don't put some money in an
envelope and mail it to the state.  The state licenses activities such
as hunting and hair-cutting, because if it didn't, people would engage
in these activities without giving money to the state.

                           Follow the spoor

Now you're all set to go hunting.  Get up at 2 a.m. and drive a long way
(don't ask me why, dammit, just do it).  When the sun comes up stop the 
car and look around for deer spoor.  I'm not sure what deer spoor is,
but you'll know it when you see it.  When you have located a sizable pile
of deer spoor, hunker down on the ground and wait for the deer to come back
(a deer always returns to the scene of its spoor).  Pass the time by
drinking liquor and eating cold cuts.  If you have any extra cold cuts
or liquor, give them to the snakes, and maybe they won't try so hard to
bite through your boots.

When the deer comes back, check to make sure it is unarmed and has
antlers, then shoot it.  If you wound it, you can track it through the
underbrush for dozens of miles by following the trail of blood, although
I can't imagine why you would want to.

Once you have a dead deer, tie it to your car and drive around a 
populated area so that ecology nuts can feel superior to you.  If you're
lucky, it will fall off the car, and you'll be done with it.  Otherwise,
you'll end up at home with a dead deer.  If this happens, you can have the
deer butchered, in which case you'll have enough deer meat to last for
many years, because it is inedible.  Or you can take the deer to a
taxidermist.  Just leave it on his doorstep in the dead of night and
run like hell.

                   -<Fresh air,Solitude,Excercise>-
    Well, the season ended for me yesterday and if it wasnt for the
    fresh air (cough cough),solitude and excercise (youd never know
    it) I would have been really skunked this year. I missed a good
    sized doe during the bow season and it was'nt till tuesday that
    I stumbled across the first (only) buck I saw this year. I really
    do meen stumbled, I was just coming out of the woods to walk the
    power lines to the truck and was about 15 steps from a good size
    laurel thicket when all of a sudden this crashing noise almost scared
    the s*^t out of me. There was a buck and a doe laying in the thicket
    catching the noon sun and being the gentleman that the buck was
    he took off like a shot leaving me to shoot at the doe and of course
    I did not have a doe permit this year so they live still. All in
    all it was a pretty good season, I got out more this year than last
    and did'nt see to many turkeys (two legged) as in the past. Looking
    forward to doing some squirrle and rabbit hunting with my son after
    the holidays and hopefully I will have an added partner next year.
    
    Congratulations to everyone that filled out their tags this year.
    
    Jack

    What does the SP stand for as in 870 SP. I bought my 870 this spring
    and paid 200 and tax for it. SP must be special, but I'm sure mine
    isn't. The stock and forearm are pretty much plain jane, but the
    rest of the gun looks exactly the same as the models with the checkered
    stocks. Is that the only differnece for the xtra 140.

    re 16.110
    
    I forgot to comment on this in my last note. No way was anything
    else open during the Shotgun deer week in Mass. Thats the way its
    always been and probably always will be! 
    
    I'll tell ya, if it weren't for bad luck this year deer hunting,
    I'da had no luck at all. I'm taking all three days muzzleloader,
    and I'd better get an opportunity then. I'll tell you its not the
    area's I hunt cause the rookies I hunted with bow season had all
    kinds of opportunities that they blew! I saw plenty of deer at 60-70
    yards during the bow and prior to that I dreamed of seeing when
    I had a gun in my hand, or within bow range.
        
    Maybe my luck will change, and I'll bag a nice buck muzzleloader.
    At this point I feel the chances of that happening are about the
    same as hitting the lottery!

    RE.117
    
    	Re: SP..
    
    		It stands for Special Purpose. It have a dull wood
    finish, Parkerized metal, 20 I.C. with Remmington Rifle Sights
    on it. It also come in 3" Magnum.
    
    	Red

    re:118
    	Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think so. I remember looking at
    this years Fish and Game rules for Mass. and on Dec. 5 I seem 
    to remember just about EVERYTHING being OPEN season. Besides 
    that, do you think I could come up with something like a bullfrog 
    season out of the blue. Think of what Dave Barry could do with 
    something like that.
    	I will try to remember to bring the game rules in with me for
    next Monday unless someone has a copy of them at work that they can 
    check.

    RAYJ

    re:119
	I hate to rub it in, but that is exactly the same gun I got
    this spring for 2 bills! A friend had called me to let me know of
    a special sale that was going on at the OUTDOORSMAN on rte. 20 in
    Northboro, Ma.
    
    From what I understand, every now and then the owner will pick up
    a decent sized quantity of merchandise, and sell it at his cost
    to draw new customers. I'm real happy with the way my gun handles,
    the sights on the remington slug barrels are superior to any other
    shotgun make that I've seen. I was real confident in my ability
    to shoot it going into the season, too bad I didn't get an opportunity
    to shoot at live game with it.

    <I don't want to rub it in>
    
    Ya right. However I'll figure the extra $140- is what it cost me
    for the 90 lbs. of meat I picked up today.. Good luck during 
    muzzleloader season!!
    
    Rick..
    

    gone but not forgoten what happend to all the phasents?
    at one time not long ago you would see then everywhere
    no more

    RE:-.1 "WHAT HAPPENED TO ALL THE PHASENTS?"
    
    Are phasents a species of deer, i've never seen or heard of one
    in the "official deer hunting note" ;^)
    
    fra
    

    What the heck is a PHASENT?  I found Phase-in/Phase-out in the Webster
    but that about it.

    f10
    mistake
    SO i made a mistake not the end of the world. But i guess Lafosse
    or Dayotte never did. [ good thing for dec ] But since were on deer
    hunting notes did you shoot your deer this year? I DID! Nice 6 point,
    147 lb. I started hunting in 81 [down main] got one every year except
    85, laggest one 9 pointer 206 lb. All the heads are on my den wall
    Be glad to show you and discuss techniques.
    
                                                  Al
    

    Ya Al, I can hear the violin's playing now..... 
    
    Rich

    Hi rich
    nice to hear from you. Rember the days when we would bet .10 a lb
    on who would shoot the heavyest deer? I never had to reach down
    into my pocket.See ya
                                    Al

    re:120
    	Well, I rechecked the dates again but that only indicated what
    I had already said in earlier notes, however, there is this paragragh
    in red that indicates all other seasons are closed during deer season
    with shotgun. These are definitely non-user friendly rules :-( I guess 
    this is part of the purpose of this notes file. If it weren't for this 
    file then the look through the rules alone could have otherwise got me
    in trouble.
    
    RAYJ

    re:.126
    I try to never make mistakes... unfortunately they occur...
    
    for future reference you will note that a ;^) was included....
    
    Fra

    you are right fra, my apology! ;^)
    
                                           Al
    

    no problem Al, just don't want to come across as a bigger ass than
    I already am... ;^)
    
    Fra
    

    I'm new to this note file so this may seem a little late.
    
    RE:.105
    
    	I used to hunt in Main a few years ago and also spent alot
    of thime driving around my own home state, Mass. trying this spot
    then that. That is up to five years ago. That's when my Wife 
    had a "medical" problem and I had to stay close to the home front in
    case of need. 
    
    	I started to hunt around the house, I live in the country.
    After the first two years I had learned the feeding/bedding grounds
    and the travel routes the deer used.
    
    	To make a long story short I have now scored the last THREE
    years in a row. All bucks,  1. 8 pointer 135lbs.  2. spike horn
    112lbs and lastly this year a fine 6 pointer 148lbs.
    
    	There is a message here, stay close to home, learn the lay
    of the land and you'll start getting deer.
    
    	The best part of this whole thing isn't just the deer I got
    but the distance from home they were taken. The 8 pointer less
    than 1\2 mile. The spike horn less than 1/4 mile. and lastly the
    6 pointer this year was 400-500 yds behind my house!! It's kinda
    nice to drag em out right to your barn.
    
    	Hope alot of you others were lucky I-I-I mean used your hard
    earned skills and got one, if not maybe black-powder???
    
    	Steve
    
    	p.s. For those who live in the land of the setting sun the
    above point counts are eastern count.
    
    

    Steve, Thats good advice, But dont get to disapointed when 15 guys
    get out the trucks and start hunting the area you have been looking
    at. It happened to me this year. I went to the bottom of the ridge
    where the deer had been going through every morning. Well these
    other hunters whent up above me and blasted the hell out of them
    before the had a chance to get to me. The moral of the story is
    have a bunch of areas mapped out.
    
    Rich 

    re .133 Steve, that's a Westfield node, right ? Whereabouts do you
    live ? My hunting partner got one right behind his house in
    Russell this year. He's Don McLean in the Metals stockroom.
    Or have you heard the story allready :-) You're right, the grass
    is always greener etc..
    
    Dana in Springfield

    Hi Steve,
    
    	Its been a long time. Sorry to here about your wife. send me
    some mail off line.
    
    There is a lot of truth to what steve is telling you. There is one
    thing that hasn't been mentioned about hunting near home and that
    is that you can usually get out more often. Here in New hampshire
    where the season is quite long ( unlike other states ) this can
    be a plus. If you don't mind getting up early you can hunt those
    early morning hours when the deer are moving ( to their beds ).
    
    I too was fortunate this year and I contribute my success to being
    able to get out often. It was cold that morning and there were no
    other hunters out. The season had been open for two weeks or so.
    
    Well what do we do now??? I would like to get some more Geese..
    But the seasons will be soon over
    
    Bear_who_use_to_work_in_Westfield.

    RE:.135
    
    	Dana, I live in Southampton!! Street and exact address not to
    be mentioned ref .134 I don't need a truck full of hunters shootin
    up the heard before they get to me!!!
                
    	Yes I have heard of the deer your friend got but didn't hear
    it right from the "deer's" mouth. :#)
    
    	High Bear!!!! Your right it has been a long time. Wife ok now!!
    Congrats on the deer this year. Hope your's taste as good as mine!!!
    
    RE:.133 you are right when you say to have several spots all picked
    out but don't forget that if you do your "homework" right you'll
    have a huge advantage over that truck load of nimrods!! I almost
    had that very problem this year. Some one let the word out that
    they knew where some deer were in a little hunted spot. Right across
    from my house!! phewwwwwwww they didn't score!! I thought I might
    loose that one. As it turnrd out I didn't need to go after that
    one as I got the one I had been Looking for, in the other spot.
    
    	You now ask Why!!! didn't you go get it for your second deer???
    I probably could have but I have limited freezer space. And Not
    all the household likes to eat it. So I am content with one a year!!
    
    	Steve :#)  
    

    OOOOOPPPPPPPPSSSSSSS Seems I replied to my own note!!!
    RE:.133 should read RE:.134   134 should read 135 and so on!!!
    
                                   
                                     o  o
    				      \/'
                                      --
                                     ME
    	Steve
    			       

    
    
    	FYI I put my personals in the WHO AM I file. Not that any of
    you whant to know but I did get a phone call asking me to do it!!
    
                                                  
    	Steve :#)

    I just entered a note about my muzzleloader season. Took about a
    half hour to write(for me thats a couple minutes to read). Anyway
    I lost my connection to this system. So I'll do it over again when
    I get time. In the mean time who scored with their smokepoles?

    it it's a hunting story enter it in subject 108 "story time"
    
    	steve

    
    	Only 15 more weeks and Vermont season opens. Sure comes around
    quick.
    
    
    
    	Red

    
    
    	Only 13 more weeks before the New Hampshire blackpowder deer
    season opens. I can't wait!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    sjn

         Only 4 1/2 weeks for BEAR season and 11 weeks for MOOSE season
    for SOME of us!!!    In MAINE
    

    
         Only 29 more days here in Arizona......
     
         Archery Deer opens Aug 26th....
    
         I'll Be there, looking for MR. MULIE !

 
    Archery          8-13 thru 9-20
    Muzzle Loading   9-7  thru 9-20
    Reg. Rifle      10-15 thru 10-19
                    10-22 thru 11-2
                    11-5  thru 11-13

    To all Mass Deer Shotgun Hunters
    
    You have 2 more weeks to submit your antlerless deer permit. Its
    attached to your license. 

    Guy

    
    
    August 15th is the date your DOE permits are due in Mass for the
    1988 shotgun season.
    
    Only a few days away.....So hurry or you'll sit this one out.
    
    Steve
    

    August 15th is also the deadline for mailing in applications for
    doe permits in the state of MAINE.
    
    Mark.

     Anyone else out there planning on hunting Ney York State this year?
    Management permits have to be postmarked by Sept. 2, so there is
    still time if you hurry.  Have talked with my buddies where we hunt
    and they assure me that the herd is in real good shape.  They have
    seen several 8 and 10 pts, plus one that is reported to be a 14pt!!!
    This weekend I'll be going up to the area for some scouting and
    to get some work done.  We spend a weekend helping the locals cut
    wood, clear brush, etc. and in return they let us hunt there land
    which is all posted. I'll let you know how it looks when I get back.
    
    Jeff

    I plan on hunting up around the Syracuse area.  Last year was pretty
    slow, so I can see how the herd would be much better this year.
     After all, the ones we didn't get last year will be older and a
    better target this year.
    
    I will be taking Friday off so I can go up and get my license and
    send the doe permit application in.  I have gotten preference stickers
    the last 2 years, so this year I have 2 points.  I should (???)
    get a doe permit this year.  They are pretty tight with out-of-state
    permits.
    
    Ed..

    Hi,
      Spent the long weekend in Sullivan County, NY scouting for deer.
    We hunt each year in Livingston Manor.  There are ALOT of deer.
    Got up there around 7:00 on Friday afternoon, saw 12 deer while driving
    into the campground.  Next day we saw 18 including 6 bucks.  On
    Sunday saw 8 more before we left around noon time.  There are plenty
    of apples and other food.  Talked with the D.E.C. people and they
    indicated that everyone who has applied for a management permit
    shoudl get one in our area (Area 60).  There has also been a dramatic
    increase in the bear population.  Last year everyone in our group
    recieved permits (9 for 9). Hears keeping the fingers crossed for
    this year.
    
    Jeff

    I have a question. I was reading HUNTER magazine last night. The
    article was about whitetail hunting, tips, etc. Lord knows I need
    all the tips I can get.
    
    The article described *trophy* buck hunting, and also rated the
    buck with a total number of points. (Points has also been mentioned
    in this conference). I am not talking about the number and size
    of the horns, I do know that much :^)  The article showed a deer
    which was given a point total, I think, of 107, which made it a
    *trophy* buck.
    
    Can someone explain the 'point' system?
    
     thanks,
    
    Smitty

    re.154
    The points are a set of measurements, length of main beam, length
    of each tine, distance between beam ect. I don't know how the 
    exact scoring goes, but to be a trophy buck in Boone and Crokett
    I beleive that it has to score a minimum 165 points, somebody please
    correct me if I am wrong, Pope and Young is somewhere around 130.
    
    Mike 
    

    Question;
    
    I was reading my usual Outdoor Life issue with all the forecasts
    for this season. I notice that when they get to Mass, they of
    course mention the Berkshires. They also stress the Cape. Now, I
    gotta admit that the areas I have seen on the Cape tend to be
    pretty well populated.....not exactly prime deer country in
    downtown Hyannis :-)
    
    Has anybody ever hunted the Cape? If so, where in general? (not
    asking you to give your favorite hotspot, of course). And, is
    Cape Cod as generally crowded as most of the Mass woods seem to
    be come deer season?
    
    Always looking for a new area...
    
    Dana
    

    I used to hunt the cape. There really are a lot of woods out on
    that peninsula. The problem is, like the Berkshires, there isn't
    enough for all the hunters. I think the Cape may be more heavily
    hunted than the Berkshires because it's flat. A lot of people,
    especially older hunters, avoid the strenuous mountain areas.
    
    I have hunted along RTE 6, down towrds Orleans. It's no secret spot,
    as it's very crowed, which is why I no longer hunt the Cape.
    
    Smitty

    Any updates from the Vermont archers? How is the season going? Is
    New York archery open yet?
    
    Guy

    pretty sure new york archery opens this weekend....  good luck to
    all!
    
    Fra
    

    New York opened last weekend for the Catskill area.  Friend of mine
    bagged a 103lb spike.
    
    Jeff

    This is a note of frustration.
    
    On Sunday, I had stalked a small heard of deer in Okanogan, WA up
    a very steep hill.  To make a long story short, I was pushing the
    small group of mulies just far enough ahead of me that I could count
    six white haunches.  I knew that two of them sere skippers and I
    thought one of that at least two of the four remaining were does.
    
    The thing I'm learning about mulies is that they don't seem to take
    off for the next county once they sense you.  They seem to just
    keep moving.  I managed to get very close to them.  At about 50
    yards, they all sort of walked into my sight.  Wow!  So close!
    I looked through binoculars because it was a low light situation
    in a pine stand.  As they moved into the very limited open spot
    I said to myself "Doe....skipper...doe...really big doe...wait a
    minute.....is taht bone up there?......Fork horn at least!
    
    I raised my rifle slowly to put the crosshairs on the buck.
    
    Problem:  I am carrying my .300 WM using 150 gr Nosler Partitions
    moving at 3200 fps, sighted in for 200 yards.  The buck is standing
    *right in front of the doe* with the skipper eating brush in front
    of the buck.
    
    I am pretty sure I can get the bullet over the skipper and into
    the buck's vitals.....but that Nosler is gonna go right through
    the buck and into that doe .....guaranteed by Murphy.
    
    The buck then said to the others (I heard him) "On the count of
    three, everybody take 4 steps forward in unison and then bolt down
    that tremendously dense ravine."  
    
    With perfect execution, what I thought was gonna be a sure thing
    disappeared into the woods.
    
    Oh well......hitting that doe probably would have cost $5000 plu
    legal fees.  There's always next week.
    
    Brett.
    

    	Cogratulations on using your head, and making the right decision.
    You've earned the title "Sprotsman".
    
    	George
    

     re. .162,, I hope you realize that the title I tried to refer to
    is : "Sportsman"  not "Sprotsman"   :^)
    
    	George
    

    Almost got my deer a little early, as a matter of fact yesterday
    in Brookline NH right at the MA line. A nice doe tried to hurl itself
    in front of my car. Lousy way to tag a deer though. I bet the doe
    went at least 170 plus pounds. So there out there. Blackpowder season
    starts Saturday and I'll be out there.............................
    
    
    sjn

     Yea man!  I recieved my managment permit for NY in the mail yesterday.
       Three weeks to go.         
    
    Jeff 

    Deer season is over, except for a couple of special hunts, so I
    thought I would enter my Odregon experience.
    
    I own a cabin on 16 acres of timber in Eastern Oregon, right on
    the Oregon Trail.  We usually hunt out of the cabin, but range all
    through the Blue Mountains.  I was born and raised there, so I know
    the area quite well.  After three days of covering every place I
    could think of, we were baack behind the cabin (about 5 miles) on
    our last day up there when I heard a shot back where I had let my
    partner out.  I figured he had one down as no one had been back
    in that area so I got the rig and went to help him.  I finally found
    him and he hadn't seen a thing, but said the shot was closer to
    the cabin.  Well, since the original hunt was ruined we headed back
    to find another area to finish off the morning and season.  We ran
    into an old guy who had driven up to cut wood and, you guessed it,
    while he was cutting wood a buck stepped out to watch him.  It also
    was nice enough to wait while he shut of the chain saw and went
    to his pick-up to get his gun.  A nice three point within sight
    of my cabin.  
    
    Two weeks later my wife and I went into Union county where they
    were having problems with deer in the apple orchards and, if you
    drew a permit, were allowed to cull the herd - does only.  Just
    as it was getting light we spotted a doe on the horizon of a ridge.
    I was trying to figure out how to put a sneak on it when she started
    shooting.  Now I should point out my wife hasn't hunted since she
    was a kid and I was wondering how she would do.  Not to wonder that
    she would be the least bit shy about shooting.  Anyway, she missed
    and I took a snap shot as it went over the ridge and missed.  As
    I started to put the gun up, another one came out and turned to
    look.  Its mistake.  All I could see after I shot was four legs
    sticking up in the air.  We then tried to find a way to get closer
    so we wouldn't have to carry her too far when we ran into five more.
    They were running and I took a shot at the lead one.  It turned
    and ran straight down the hill and dropped dead on the road.  Gutted
    it out, loaded it in the rig, walked up the hill and found the first
    one, gutted it out, into the rig, and on the road by 7:30.  Back
    at the cabin had them hung up skinned, washed out and covered by
    10:30.  Some days chickens, some days feathers.
    
    As a ps, you should have seen the people look as they drove by the
    cabin and saw the deer hanging, since the season was over in that
    area.
    
    
    Kenny

    rep .166
    
    Mulies?

    re. 167
    
    yes
    
    Just got the meat back.  Had steaks, jerky and pepperoni sticks
    made out of it.  It came out great!!  Had venison for dinner last
    night.

    Isn't shooting at anything on a ridge kind of dangerous?  How do
    you know what's beyond it (houses, roads, PEOPLE, etc.)?
    
    Sorry, just had to ask.

    30 minutes to go and I'm out of here.
    Season start tomorrow, snow fell in the high country last night,
    looking good.
    
    let you know in a week.
    
    mark

    Knock 'em down!
    
    Mark.

    Seeing as the header here dosn't say "successful deer hunting note" 
    I must be in the right place... ;^)
    
    Well, Mass archery opened yesterday (11-7), and at 6:30 I had a
    broadside shot at what I believe was a 4 pointer (same deer walked
    by my partner but he didn't have a good shot so he passed it up
    as it was heading in my direction anyways), and what I thought
    was a wide open 25 yd shot.... as good as in the freezer... ;^(
    
    Sure!!!  drew back, let the arrow fly and listened as the arrow
    rattled off of some unseen suckerbrush, what kills me is that even
    in broad daylight I couldn't see the stuff.  So before walking out
    I cleared some extra shooting lanes and cleared the one the arrow 
    rattled through (stuff grows fast... I cleared that lane last year), 
    I missed but it could have turned out much worse, the shot was a 
    clean miss, no wounds to worry about and no cripples.  
    
    Came home empty handed... but had a great time anyway, still get a 
    tremendous kick from having them walk by so close. Besides I still
    have 3 weeks ahead of me, no need to get anxious.
                                          
    good luck, Fra
     

    Tough break,"I hate when that happens". But seriously its too bad,
    cause those up close and broadside shots get fewer and further between
    as the season progresses and the deer start having" close encounters"
    with humans.
    
    Took a week already in N.J. archery, to no avail!
    I didn't plan anytime for Mass Arch. so I been scouting within a
    mile of my home, for a place where I can jump into a tree for any
    early, or late stand here or there. Well, I was suprised to find lots 
    of buck sign this past weekend, and kicked 2 deer out of the general
    area I was in also. The deer initially ran off about 70 yards, and
    snorted at least 8 times, before they finally moved off totally.
    I don't usually associate snorting with bucks only, cause I've had more
    does snort at me than I could count.
    
    So yesterday I scooted home early and was in my tree by 3:30. Well,
    I didn't see a damn thing, yet as I moved to begin to climb down, a deer
    snorted, so I froze. It sounded fairly close, so I stared in the
    general direction for a couple minutes, but it was getting too late
    to stay there, and I still couldn't see anything. So I again began
    to move to climb down outta the stand, and the deer snorts 2 more
    times, and then I catch just the hint of the tail at probably 80-100
    yards down wind of me, as he's bounding away.

    I was concentrating on keeping my stand in close to the edge of
    the pines that boardered the open hardwoods, cause thats where the
    majority of the sign seemed to be. The sucker was snorting from
    a location slightly upwind, and uphill from me. Geeze, I was feeling
    good about sneaking to my stand quietly, I loaded up with Doe-P,
    even wore my raingear pants to reduce my scent trail on the way
    in!
    
    I guess I'm gonna have to move the stand uphill some what to keep
    those breezes from giving me away. Seems like the spot I'm in now
    is for activity that occurs just at, or slightly after dark. 
    
    I almost went out this morning, yet I probably give myself away
    walking into this spot in the morning, as I think they may stay
    close to where I'm at til first light!
        
    These suckers will drive you crazy if you let them! I've been thinkning
    about it since it happened, trying to plot my next moves. I haven't
    actually seen any deer well enough yet to identify them as buck
    or doe in this area. Yet with all the buck sign, and the way the
    deer was bein cagey last evening, I dreaming about something 8 points
    at least. He was rubbing some good sized trees too!
    
    Can't wait to get back in the woods. It's driving me crazy being
    here today!

    

      Well so far my group is 4 out of 5 for getting their deer.  On
    opening day of NH muzzleloader we took a 126# doe and a 115# spike.
    We also had a gun with wet powder ... fired 3 caps at a branch antlered
    deer standing 40 yards broadside.  We also missed at a walking deer
    at about 50 yards..... didn't pay enough attention to the brush.
    All in all  it was the most successful single day of NH hunting
    for our group.  Anyway last Sunday, the fellow with the opening
    day wet powder connected with a nice 7 point 148 pounder.  I ended
    the muzzleloading season with 11 deer sighted and 3 shots fired.
    On the last day of the season I spotted a 5 point and an 8 (or better)
    point and held off on the shot because of the distance.  Glad I
    did cause they didn't spook and I took the 5 point opening day of
    rifle.    Now its off to Vermont with the FRA!
    
    Good luck and a safe season to all!

    Great job! Sounds like your party had lots of fun, thats the way
    every season should go! It's also amazing that so many bucks were
    taken, and sighted.

    well the same results as the past ten years no deer. at least i
    got to see some. on opening day my buddy spooked a nice size doe
    it was heading for the water hole so he decided to climb higher
    on his stand and spooked her i couldn't get a good clear shot at her.
    on saturday i had another doe running towards me i was all set just
    waiting for her to come into the clearing when a guy started his
    chain saw and spooked her in the direction a guy just walking up
    a loggin road spoted her and nailed her. he was only about 50 to
    60 feet away from me. all in all i had a great time.
    
                 good luck the rest of the season to you all
    
                                 ray d. 
    

    no luck here.
    
    Remember the saying: The worst day hunting is better than the best
                         day at work.
    
    They should give the person that came up with this the Nobel Prize.
    How true it is.
    
    Mark W.

    Very frustrating year for me this year...
    
    First day out, I came over a ridge and found a small herd of about 10
    deer munching away in a burn area (fire was about 3 years ago).  They
    didn't know I was there and no matter how hard I tried, none of them
    would grow antlers.  They were about 150 yards out and were sitting
    ducks, but alas, no bucks!  I watched them for about a half hour hoping
    to find a buck hidden behind a bush or something, but finally concluded
    that they were not co-ed.  As I got up and started to head on up the
    hill, I spied a white rump bounding away about 150 yards away.  It had
    seen me before I saw it, I dropped down grabbed my binoculars and
    determined that it was a 2 point making tracks over the next ridge.  By
    the time I got ready to shoot, he was probably 175 yards.  BOOM... 
    Missed... (I use a Marlin 30-30, now 200 yards) BOOM... missed again...
    (still moving, accelerating too) now 250 yards, ready to go over the
    ridge, one last chance... BOOM... missed (boy was I disappointed).  I
    spent the rest of the day kicking myself for not looking 360 degrees
    before getting up. :-(
    
    Next day, saw more deer, no antlers.
    
    Next day, I come into this GIANT draw and down at the bottom is another
    herd of about 15 deer and there's a nice 3 point in the group.  Heart
    starts beating in my throat.  I tried to get closer, but there was
    essentially no cover (lots of sage-brush, very few junipers, but it's
    too noisy to move through).  Also with 15 pairs of deer ears and eyes
    to work against, I didn't have a chance.  I got within about 300 yards
    when they started getting nervous, so I tried to bag the buck, but it
    was no use (really too far for my 30-30).  I had debated about going
    over either side of the ridge and trying to come in from another
    direction, but it was getting dark and I didn't really have time to get
    in a nice stalk.  Oh well, chalk up another one for the deer.
    
    Next day, didn't see any antlers until we were coming back to my
    buddies cabin.  We pull up and would you believe it?  ANOTHER different
    herd of about 10 deer, including a spike and a fork point.  By the time
    we scrambled out of the jeep, the deer have gone across the highway.  I
    was VERY tempted to shoot anyway, but it is against the law to shoot
    across the highway in Colorado.  Call me a purest or a chicken, but I
    just don't want to break the law or compromise my ethics.  I mean these
    deer were less than 100 yards, but I just couldn't make myself do it.
    We crossed the road to see if we could bag 'em, but by now these guys
    are making serious tracks to the high country.  Oh well, deer = 3, me =
    0.
    
    Last day of the season, my buddy and I go up to a place were we've seen
    deer crossing from one ridge to another (only does, no bucks).  We post
    ourselves about 400 yards apart.  Get this, I've seen well over 35 deer
    during the week, had a couple of opportunities to shoot at bucks and my
    partner has seen only 3 deer and not fired his rifle once.  Well, you
    guessed it.  7:30 AM, I sitting there freezing my butt off watching one
    area while he's watching another when...
    


    BOOM... BOOM...  
    


    Yep, the son-of-a-gun gets a nice 2 point buck.  Talk about
    disappointing.  I was glad for him but really jealous.  The way I see,
    I deserved that deer, not him! :-)
    
    Anyway, all in all, I was disappointed, but I would rather have been
    disappointed like that than been at work!
    
    Can't wait 'til next year.  Hope I get a doe tag!!!!
    
    +- Mark

    Well, just got back from 5 days in Vermont, saw 3-4 deer moving
    through the woods on opening morning, they all cut up the hill through
    a saddle about 100 yds to my right, never got a good look.
    
    opening night... nothing!
    
    next day... see a deer streaking across a field not 50 yds from
    the camp.... to dark to shoot or see horns... 8:00 am 2-3 deer 
    coming into tinks #69, stopped short and bedded down, never saw 
    them...  
    
    night stand nothing! Soaked to the bone, pouring rain!
    
    3rd day... almost step on a doe at 6:30am... bounds off snorting...
    
    night stand...  nothing!
    
    4th day... nothing in the morning. evening however is unbelievable...
    get to my treestand approx 1:30pm, set up, 10 minutes later a deer
    wlaks in a beds down 50-75 yds away, head behind a tree, never got
    a good look... stays for about an hour and leaves, wind is blowing
    directly at her (like to convince myself that anything I don't get a
    good look at is a doe), which says alot about hunting from treestands.
    
    around 4'ish, another deer comes up the hill from my left, and is
    just poking along, got the handgun cocked and ready for action,
    deer is behind some evergreens and i can't get a good look... 10
    minutes later heer comes 2 deer from up the hill.  The original
    one poking around starts coming back up and starts to blat. he comes
    in and turns out to be a button buck, the others from up the hill
    are big does, all are within spitting range (5-10 yards).
    They all hang out for about 3-4 minutes and go down the hill.
    
    10 minutes later, another deer comes down the hill, to dark to shoot,
    passed up the opportunity, never saw what it was. Have to think
    it might have been a buck as it was following 10 minutes behind
    the does... oh well theres always this weekend.
    
    Fra
    

    Fra, hang in there.  You are obviously in the right place and doing
    the right things to see deer that close.  Your shot will come
    eventually.
    
    
    On a more somber note...A hunter was shot in the shoulder with a
    slug this past weekend in the area that I hunt.  He'll survive,
    thanks partly due to the fact that the hunter who shot him decided
    to stick around and help the wounded hunter.  Don't have any other
    details (this happened in Durham, NH).  From what I've heard there
    have already been 3 "accidents" in the first 2 weeks in NH, with 
    1 death.
    
    Please be careful, people!

    re.182 I hate to hear those types of stories! If the person who
    shot him accidentally was close enough to know he'd hit him, he
    must have mistaken him for a deer! I don't think it could have been
    a case of a stray bullet.
    
    Damn, I just find it inexcusable for some body to screw up so bad!
    I read an article about a turkey hunter being shot when somebody
    stalked him, and fired at the motion he used in making his calls.
    Scares me half to death, to think there are people out there who
    could make such a blunder!
    
    Anyway, on a lighter note my bro-in-law had a similar experience
    with deer bleating to one another this year during New Jersey archery.
    The deer came from behind him and converged with deer in front of
    him. He'd had a nice shot too, but it had rained that morning and
    when he drew on the deer walking right beneath his stand, his bow
    made a god awful creaking noise which spooked the deer, and ruined
    his chance at a "gimme". I've always had a habit of drawing when
    I first get into my stand, cause I had a bad experience once by
    hitting a branch while drawing on a deer. I guess this is one more
    good reason to draw before you settle in!
    
    

    I do have a report from the ottaquecchi club, one of the members
    cashed in on his first deer, a nice fat spike... the farmers son shot
    a 130 lb spike, and one of the locals who hunts on the farm shot
    a nice 7 pointer 148 lbs.... not bad 7 members and 3 others for
    a 42% success ratio... and theres still 9 days left...
          
    good luck and continued success to all,   Fra

    Maybe this should be a new topic, but I came across this from the
    COLORADO WILDLIFE magazine.
    
         Being a successful deer hunter often means committing the
         least number of mistakes when in the woods.  Here are several
         things to avoid:
         
         1.   Using sex-attracting scents out of rutting season.  When
              used, the scent should be placed a short distance from
              where you are stationed instead of applied to yourself,
              which could make your movements more easily seen by the
              deer.
    
         2.   Leaving the woods and not hunting during mid-day.  Deer
              movements tend to increase when human activity declines.
              Instead of going back to camp, continue hunting through
              the mid-day hours when there are fewer hunters in the
              woods.
              
         3.   Limiting your hunting to a buck's scrape instead of it
              dominance area.  Hunt the entire area a buck defends,
              not just a single spot.
              
         4.   Hunting the same area used during the archery season.
              Deer shift between areas because of changes in available
              food as the season progresses.
              
         5.   Thinking deer are no longer in a particular area because
              deer activity has slowed down.  Deer activity slows
              because human activity increases.  Smart hunters work
              even harder.
              
         6.   Hunting open areas.  Stick closer to dense cover as the
              season progresses.
              
              - Tennessee Wildlife Resources

     Sitting here in my office, I only have to walk to the window to see a
    beautiful deer across 495. It appears to be a doe, but could be an
    antlerless buck (how big should their antlers be this time of year?)
    It looks to be about 150 lbs or so, a large animal. They tell me there
    are quite a few of them here. (I work at LKG, Littleton Ma).
    
     How come I don't see any of them come deer season? :-)
    
    The Doctah

    	Came back from my honeymoon is S.C last week via interstate
    84 in Penn. In and around Milford, new the N.Y border, I counted.....
    
    		29 road kills ( Deer ) in 7 miles. I saw more dead Deer
    	than Woodchucks. In one sopt alone, there must has been a crossing,
    	and it looked like a small heard got it. There were a group
    	of 7 in a pile, and 4 more 50 yrds. done the road.
    
    		On the brighter side, I saw so many Deer on the
    	Shenandoah Skyline drive ( 102 miles ) grazing on the side of
    	the road than I've every seen.
    
    
    	Red Newsham Counting the days until Vermont season opens.

     RE: antler size this time of year
    
     I've seen branch antlered racks in velvet this time of year in
    both central California and northeastern Washington.  I don't imagine
    you should see too much beyond the forks though.  Also, sightings
    of bucks this time of year should be pretty rare.  Late August is
    when they will start to frequent the fields.
    
     Its a real sin re: road kills.  My uncle drives a tractor trailor
    for a living.  Since he's put those "game whistles" on his rig a
    few years back he hasn't hit anything.  They should make them mandatory
    on all vehicles.  He drives the length of PA daily.
    
    Dave

    Hey Red,
      Did you say "back from the honeymoon"?  You don't really plan
    on still doing any hunt'in come the fall now do ya?  Obviously
    you failed to read the small print.
    
    Jeff

Honeymoon/new Marriage as an excuse to not go hunting!?!?!?  No way!

I got married on October 24th and was away for a week of deer hunting at the
end of November, basically three weeks after the honeymoon...I even brought 
home some venison...Of course, *I* got to cook it...

Perry

    I had my wife sign an agreement in front of a Notary Public that
    basically says that if I don't hunt, the marriage is null and void.
    
    :^)
    
    Mark_who's_father_in_law_hunts_which_certainly_helps...

    Re the Honeymoon. I've been blessed marrying a lady who was
    born and raised in Vermont, with a family of hunters. As a matter
    of dact, I spend my two weeks in Vermont deer hunting at camp
    with her father.....
    
    Also, even though I hate to admit it, my wife is as good a pistol
    shot if not better than me. How embarassing......................
    
    Red - Still counting the days until Vermont season opens...

    It wasd released this weekend that Vermont will not have Doe permits
    again this year. They believe that the elimination of it last year
    and coupled with the mild winter, the herd should be healthy
    enough to allow Doe permits in '90.
    
    	Red_waiting_22_more_weeks_and_hopefully_Antlers....

    
    
    	It's going to be a loooong summer Red, hopefully you'll find
    something to help you pass the time and assist your wildest whitetail
    dreams!  BTW Congratulations on you and Jenna and may good luck
    and fortune be present wherever you go.  Maybe I'll get a chance
    to stop by and say hello again this fall!
    
    - Rob
    

    Rob,
    
    	Can't promise you a Venison steak if you stop by, but there
    my be a cold beer kicking around.
    
    	Red

    
    Yesterday I saw a deer (assumed doe since it had no antlers) cross
    the fire road that leads to the stagnant pond at BXB2. It went behind
    a small crest. I watched for a while to see if it I could see it
    come from the other side of the crest in the woods, but I didn't.
    I mentioned it to Phil the security guard and he said they've been
    seeing it regularly. This was about 11:15 in the morning.
    
    Saturday evening/night (about 8pm) I had a deer dart across Emery
    Road in Townsend in front of my car. Again I assumed it was a doe.
    This was just down the street from my house. My dog was in the car
    with me and I thought he was going to jump through the window to
    chase it. Luckily he didn't. In the fall deer tend to bed down by
    the old apple trees on my property. The back of my land abuts the
    Townsend Rod and Gun club so there's lots of land for them to roam.
    
    Patty

    I got to watch a doe and a skipper only a couple of days ago cross
    route 12 in Ashburnham (MA). Both deer were in good shape. The doe
    (it probably was a doe) looked to be at least 120 plus. It was real
    early in the morning and the deer didn't have any traffic to contend
    with.

                      Now where did I put MY BOW ????
                      o 
                     o                   \ /     \ /
                WW                        X /   \ X              
               /oo\                        X/   \X              
              C  \ \                        \___/          
               \  o/                        /oo \           
             /--/ \--\                      \   /----------/
            |   \ /  |                       \_/           )
            | |  |  ||                         \           |
            |_|  |  _|                          | |-----| /
            mm ------mm                         | |     | |
               |    |                           |_|_    |_|    _   _  _   _   _ 
               |  | |                            
               |  | |
               |__|_|_               Aug 25th Archery deer opens in Arizona...
               |___|__|                       I'll never make it..............

    THATS IT..... I JUST SNAPPED, I HAVE TO WAIT TILL 2ND WEEK OF
    OCTOBER...  I'LL NEVER MAKE IT NOW.
    
    FRA
    
    PS, NICE CARTOON

    Fra,
    Come on up to NH.  Its about a month sooner!!!
    

    Just an FYI. The current issue of the American Hunter, issued by
    the NRA, list all 50 states and Canadian Provicines with the
    licence cost and dates for all critters.
    
    	Red counting the days until Vt. opens.

    I was up in the woodstock area 2 weeks ago to fix the plumbing,
    furnace, pretty much a spring cleaning of the the camp.  I also make
    it a habit to try and set up at least one new treestand or update 
    old ones. (have some dynamite plans for a permanent stand if anyone
    would care for a copy)  
    
    Anyways, lots of sign, saw 6 deer (3 of em outa my "old reliable"
    treestand).... Red your not alone, i'm counting too....          
                                                               
    Fra
    

    Anyone going bowhunting this weekend?
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Re: -1   bowhunting starts September 16th.
    
    
    It does????  I thought it started Oct. 7th....
    
    
    ;-)

     
    Sorry about that.
    
                    Only in New Hampshire. 
    
    For $36.00 you can bow hunt in New Hampshire from sept 16 to 
    dec 31. 1 buck or doe. this year anyway.
    
                               thats $36.00 for a non-resident
    
    So come on mass people; lets go get them...
    
    
    
    
    
    

    
             Also I was told that the drawing for Mass doe permits will
             be held October 8th. where?????
    
    
    
    
    

    I'm there, will have been a couple of years since I last hunted
    NH, but the sign looks terrific, and the tree stand is in and camoed!
    
    Looking forward to it, not necessarily having to get up at 3:30
    to make the 2 hour drive to "the spot"... but hey, if you can't
    get up to go hunting you must be dead already!!!
     
    Fra-with-new-icbm's-and-loggy bayou-ready-and-waiting!!!
    

    I heard Mass. permits would be drawn on the 12th of October.
    The 8th is on a Sunday, doubt they'd do it when so many could 
    attend :-)/2

I had an experience last year that's interesting and it may save 
somebody from losing a deer.  My brother was in a stand not too far 
from me and I heard him shoot.  Since I hadn't seen anything all morning, 
I gave him about 30 minutes and went to his stand.  

He said the deer suprised him by coming out of nowhere (don't they 
always), and he shot it as it was quartering away from him.  He felt 
that he hit it at least in the midsection, but thought that he hit it 
more toward the shoulder.  

We found blood about 10 yards from where he said he shot, and got a 
heavy blood trail for about 50 yards - big drops about every 6" to 12".  
Then, for no reason, the blood just stopped.  It was like someone had 
turned a faucet on and off.  We circled and circled out from where the 
blood trail stopped and never found blood again.  

We were hunting near a big creek, and we thought that maybe it jumped 
the creek, so when it came down it should've left some blood.  We went 
to the creek which was strewn with rocks and never found any more 
blood.  When I looked up the creek, though, 1 of the rocks was 
slightly different - different texture looking and different color.  I 
walked up the creek, and there was the deer.  It had its head and legs 
under water, and the only part showing was the ribs on the side that 
hadn't been shot!  That's where it had died.

What had happened was he shot the deer right in front of the left rear 
leg, just behind the ribs.  The bullet went through the "guts," then 
went through the lungs, finally lodging in the right front shoulder 
right under the skin.  I fugure that the deer started bleeding heavily 
before the material from the stomach clogged the entry wound and 
stopped the blood.

The moral of the story for me was two-fold.  First, I've never seen a 
deer that was gutshot that didn't go to water.  This was no exception, 
so it just reinforces that idea.  Second, don't assume that it was 
just a skin wound because the trail just ends.  One of the guys with 
us that day did just that and was really suprised when we dragged the 
deer into camp!

Scott

    
    A couple of years back, "homer" Ayotte and I were bowhunting in
    VT, when Dave shot what he described as "at least a six pointer",
    late in then afternoon. He can fill in the details on what happened,
    but told be it was a clean broadside shot at less than 15 yards...
    
    He waited the normal 20 minutes or so before tracking it, he found
    his arrow, and started tracking, about 50 or so yards into the journey,
    he heard a crashing and looked up to see the deer standing... so
    he backed off and left the woods, not wanting to push the deer.
    
    Next morning, him and I went back to continue the search, there
    was no blood after 50 yards, none!  we were on our hands and knees
    looking, we eventually found the deer about 200 yards from where
    he last spotted it, in open hardwoods. there wasn't a stitch of
    blood to be found either beneath the deer or within the general
    vicinity...  we later found out why. The arrow had entered the liver
    but exited the paunch, clogging the exit wound...
    
    Fra

    Fra,
    You know as well as everyone that there is no such thing as a "clean
    broadside" shot when you are looking down on an animal  ;^)   The
    deer was only 15 feet (if that) away and I never said that the spike
    was a 6 pointer....... I may have said fork horn but everyone knows
    I don't lie that much ;^)  The important thing was we found the
    animal.  Frank Legare had a similar thing happen last year where
    he put in a good 8 hour search before finding his deer.  I believe
    that an animal hit high in the chest will have to fill the lungs
    with blood before the blood will run freely out a wound therefore
    giving you a poor blood trail.  Also, a hit involving the digestive
    tract can cause a mortal hit to bleed very little due to the corking
    effect of the paunch contents.
    
    Dave

It looks like it's going to be a good year for spotting deer in NH.

I took my tree stand out Friday afternoon and set it up.  I spent a bit
of time choosing between 2 locations about 60 yards apart.  I opted for
the location that was a little less open.

Saturday AM, in stand before light - somewhat foggy.  Nothing happening
until 7AM - something just tripped over a branch.  Looked around and finally
keyed on motion.  A doe and twin fawns right under the alternate stand 
location.  Fawns very small with reddish coats - made me think of foxes.
They only stood about half as tall as mom - probably wouldn't dress at more 
than 30 lbs.  It made me wonder what kind of decision I would make it they 
were closer.  They never did, so I was spared the choice.

Later Saturday AM got down and moved stand to alternate location.  Went
out still-hunting/scouting.  Eventually jumped a single deer, but only
saw rear-end disappearing over stone wall.  Called it a morning and went home
to mow lawn.

Sat PM, back to stand at 5PM.  Spent two hours trying to swat bugs without 
moving.  Nothin doing.

Sunday, slept in because woke up to pouring rain.  I think it stopped
just at daybreak, so I should have gone.  After lunch, went out for more
still-hunting/scouting.  Saw lots of sign, but no deer.  Up in tree stand
by 5PM.  Nothing going on.  Climbed down when just enough light to walk
back to truck.  Sure enough, when I got near original stand location I
jumped a single (large?) deer almost under the stand.

I haven't had so much fun in a long time.

- Dave

    
    
    	I've been out scouting several times here in Vt, season doesn't
    open until Oct. 7th.  The best time out was when I came on a 7-point
    buck in a small draw with a creek running through it.  I ended up
    watching that deer for close to an hour.  Talk about getting pumped,
    he fed within 25 yards of me at one point and offered several 
    quartering away shots I could only dream of!!  Maybe in a couple
    of weeks......
    

    I stopped in at Pete's Gun and Tackle (Hudson, NH) yesterday to pick up
    some shells to go trap shooting. Pete said a guy took in a nice buck
    earlier in the day, and he got in in Hudson near Musquash road. I was
    really surprised there was much in the way of deer to be had in Hudson,
    but surprise, surprise!
    
     The Doctah

    Theres a moose in Hudson too.  Nashua Police "escorted" (followed)
    an 800-900 pound moose out of downtown Nashua the other day.  It
    crossed the Merrimack river and went into Hudson.
    
    FWIW, Dave

    Testing 1, 2, 3....
    
    
    Mark.

    re: Testing 1,2,3...
    
    
    I didn't understand until I read the previouse note and found it
    was written about 1 year ago.
    
    Season opens in Oregon next Saturday (rifle).  Bow season's been
    open a couple of weeks.  I don't know any bow hunters.
    
    I've seen some nice bucks close by the cabin during grouse season,
    but I think I'll hunt down on the breaks for the first couple of
    mornings to see if I can spot a buck in the rimrocks.  I'll enter
    here if anything happens.
    
    Ken
    

    < Note 16.217 by RIPPLE::CORBETTKE "KENNY CHINOOK" >
                         -< Another year coming up.. >-

>    re: Testing 1,2,3...
>    
>    
>    I didn't understand until I read the previouse note and found it
>    was written about 1 year ago.

    I'm just dusting the cobwebs out the the deer hunting note.  My
    neck has been swelling and the tarsal glands are beginning to get
    ripe.
    
    Happens every September.
    
    Mark.

    Well, I have been up around 750.-800. area, and just stumbled on this.
    Might as well use it.  So it is 8 days for me until firearm season on
    deer here in Georgia.  I have been counting since 88 days.  Can you
    believe that one?  One week from this exact moment, I will be at deer
    camp.  OH GOD, I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!  Everything is taken care of. Camp is
    prepped for hunters. The stands have all been safety checked.  The
    rifle is sighted in.  All accesories for hunting have been purchased or
    cleaned.  I have my license and tags.  The only thing that needs to
    happen is the sunrise on October 20th.  Well, let me see if anyone
    bites on this note, it has been pretty inactive considering it is just
    days away for everybody.  Don't forget, all 90-91 hunting reports go in
    note 737. this year, not 270.
    
    Good luck on everybody's hunts.
    
    Bob
    

>  Well, let me see if anyone
>  bites on this note

	I'll bite.  Season opener for Colorado deer/elk tomorrow.  I'm in
	the same boat as you, though.  2nd combined (we've a few cow tags)
	is for the 20th ... 11 days out in the woods to try our luck & skills.
	Good thing it's been so busy at work lately ... 

	My watch appears to be broke - it's seems to run slow this time
	of year. ;-)

	Good luck and a safe one to all.

	AA

    9 people were accidently shot during this year's deer hunting season in
    Maine.  9 people were injured, 0 were killed.  Of the 9, 3 of the
    injuries were self-inflicted.
    
    Seeing that over 200,000 hunters roamed the Maine woods during this 55
    day period (including archery and muzzleloader seasons), this means
    that .0045% of the hunting population were victims of accidental
    shootings.  
    
    Or 1 out of every 22,000 hunters.
    
    You don't see the media reporting this little tid-bit, now do you?
    
    Mark.

    This entry is for myself and Dan McCrillis (TSFO'd in November 92). Dan
    shot a spike horn dressing @ 100lbs on Tuesday PM and then a 7 pointer
    on Wednesday morning dressing @ 132lbs. 
    
    I finally filled my doe tag on Saturday, she dressed @ 125lbs.
    
    All 3 deer were shot in Royalston, Ma. - NOT bad for a weeks worth of
    work for two !!!!

LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE LAKE
         SWAMPSWAMPSWAMPSWAMPSWAMP                      | |
                                                        | |
                                                        |R|
                                 ________               |O|
                                /        \              |A|
                               /          \             |D|
                              /            \            | |
<--SECONDARY ROAD &           |    HILL    |            | |
   SCATTERED HOMES            |            |<-1/2 mi.-> | |
   TWO MILES AWAY             \            /            | |
                               \          /             | |
                                \________/              | |
                                                        | |
                                                        | |
                                                        | |

        * Deer have been feeding on this hill.
        * Other hunters can be expected to approach
          the hill from the nearby road on opening
          day.
	* Other than indicated swamp/lake the area is
	  a mix of hardwood and pine.
	* My partner and I will continue to scout the
	  woods behind this hill for rubs/scrapes, but
	  in the absence of clear signs like these, 
	  we're planning to let other hunters push to us.

	Any Suggestions?  Think the deer would move into the swamp
	or deeper into the woods?

	How early (in the morning) would you set up in the woods 
	behind this hill in anticipation of opening-day hunters
	approaching from the road to the right?
	   
	Thanks,

	George

    
    George get there long before anyone else will. My area is sort of the
    same set up as as yours and I'm set and ready before the other guys
    leave their vehicles for the walk in. I figure they (deer)may know I walked
    by but if I'm quiet they may head that way anyway when the others head in.
    It worked last year and thats what I plan on doing again this year.
    I'd try the far corner of the swamp, that way the guys pushing the edge
    may push them towards you.
    
    Walt

	We'll Walt, I got the itch. My old hunting pal called me the 
other day and it looks like turkey day the lead will fly. Probably more at
target practice than deer but you never know. My pal and his family lease
about 900 acres in upstate NY. They have missed two bucks so far this year 
with my pal getting a small bear. He hasn't hunted in 5 years and on the
opening weekend, bang!!! Should be a good time to go, around the rut and
hopefully some white stuff. I'll let you know how my 30-06 and I make out.

                   
                   
                                                     Scott

    
    Good luck Scott! Sounds like you have access to a good area,
    I hope you get one.
    
    
    Walt

    	11/23 looks like the big day. First time hunting in over two years.
    Look out whitetail, here I come. Let ya'll you know how we make out.

    	We'll not much action. Hunted 2 days with 1 member seeing 1 deer.
    Had a few in the drive but, as usual, the deer went where the watchers
    weren't. All in all it was nice to see everybody, laugh and listen to 
    days gone by. Two days is just a tease, maybe next year.


                                                                 Scott