Conference vicki::boats

A friend of mine has messed with the old Merc 50 quite a bit, and in
fact is right now getting a high-performance one ready for his hydroplane.
(See my ad in note 3 for parts or complete motors that I placed for
him).  Anyway, I'll ask him if he'd be willing to take a look at it
for you, I'm sure his rates are cheaper than a dealer.  8*)

As far as the prop, you may have caused some internal damage but most 
likely you spun the rubber insert between the inner and outer hubs of 
the prop.  This often breaks away when you hit something and will give 
the exact symptom you describe.  There is enough friction in the rubber 
between the two hubs so that the boat will get up to 5-10 mph, then the 
hub freewheels, causing the engine to overrev while the boat slows down.
Most prop repair shops can replace the rubber insert.

Let me know if you want me to ask my buddy about working on it.  He may
also be interested in buying the motor from you if the lower end problem 
turns out to be too expensive to repair.

Rick W.

    If your friend would not mind taking a look at it I would appreciate
    it. Let me know what you find out and then we can set up some time.
    Thanks for you help..
    
    John

    I used to own an old Merc, and the bext place I know of to have
    work done is Hazard Marine in Southbridge I think. Its a simple
    one man kind of shop where the owner grew up on the old engines
    and knows them like the back of his hand. 
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Tony
    

    Thanks for the info and names.. I have found someone and my motor is at
    his house at this time.. Thanks again..
    
    John

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Note 723.0                  Mercury outboard problem                  No replies
VICKI::CURRIER "Matt DTN 285-3820"                   21 lines  25-JUL-1990 14:49
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Hi,

    I just bought an old boat, trailer and engine.  The engine has major
    problems.  I knew this when I bought it.

    It is a 4 cyl Mercury 65 horse outboard, about 1970 vintage.  Last summer, 
    while the previous owner was using the boat, he heard a crack noise in
    the engine and it died.  

    I have found that the problem originated in the 3rd cylinder.  The flywheel
    on top rotates forward and backward only about 90 degrees.  Cylinders 1,2
    and 4 are moving as they should as the crankshaft is moving.

    Is this engine worth fixing?   Does the damage seem extensive?  I don't
    mind spending the time taking it apart.  I'd just like to find an old
    mercury outboard manual.  Anyone recommend one, and where to get it?

Thanks for any advice,

Matt

    from your description its difficult to understand:
    
    1. what happened, (did a connecting rod break)
    
    2. when this happened, did it damage the cylinder wall.
    
    
    My observation of what i've seen in the past, outboards
    that have been rebuilt, have not survived very well.
    
    This may be a gross assumption, but its what i saw.
    
    On the manual, call the factory rep....
    
    JIm.

Original base note and reply moved by moderator

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Note 723.1                  Mercury outboard problem                      1 of 1
COLBIN::WHITMAN                                      21 lines  26-JUL-1990 16:28
                       -< check the library for manuals >-
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<    It is a 4 cyl Mercury 65 horse outboard, about 1970 vintage.  Last summer, 
<    while the previous owner was using the boat, he heard a crack noise in...
<
<    Is this engine worth fixing?   Does the damage seem extensive?  I don't
<    mind spending the time taking it apart.  I'd just like to find an old
<    mercury outboard manual.  Anyone recommend one, and where to get it?

Matt,
	For the manual, you should be able to get something at any large
library, I know the Worcester, Ma public library had an extensive set of the
outboard equivalent of CHILTON's (I think it was SAM's, but I'm not sure).

As for the problem you described, If you only have a broken rod, you may get
away with new piston, if (and this is most likely) you also have cracked or
scored cylinder walls and scored bearings, you've got more problems.  Hell if
you have the time, tear it apart and see what's wrong. The worst that can
happen is you still have an engine (or at least engine parts) that don't work. 

I've seen some clever mailboxes made from old outboards!!

Al

Worcester library on Salem street does have manuals covering old Merc's.
I copied the pages for my old 65HP-4 1972 Merc. In fact, they had manuals
published by two different companies.

Bob...

    I would say that if the lower unit is of a durable design (read:
    basically the same as new motors), then any motor is worth fixing.  It
    would seem that motors with ruined lower units are a dime a dozen,
    whereas good top ends are easy to find.
    
    Carl

    
    Hello,
    
    	It's me again.  I've since got a hold of another old mercury
    engine.  This one is a 1972 50 horse 4cyl, and also has its own
    problem. 
    
    	I'm planning on using parts from the 65 horse if I need them.
    
	The problem with this new engine (well, new to me) is the previous
    owner hit a rock and bent both the prop and prop shaft.  What I'd like
    to know is the correct method of fixing this.  Does anyone have
    experience straightening out the shaft?  I'd also like to know how to
    remove the shaft for this type of engine?  Any help is appreciated.
    
    	Any recommendations on a new prop for this engine?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Matt
    

RE: Note 706.10  

>> the previous owner hit a rock and bent both the prop and prop shaft.

    Bring it to a machine shop which has a hydraulic press and equipment for 
    measuring tolerances down to the thousands of an inch (which obviously 
    any machine shop should have!).  You'll never get the shaft straight by 
    the hammer and eyeball method.

>> I'd also like to know how to remove the shaft for this type of engine? 

    Read the manual.  Any decent library should have one.

>> Any recommendations on a new prop for this engine?

    What's the application?  The correct prop depends completely on the size
    of the boat and intended use.  A good compromise on most boats is a 13"x17".
    If you want good low end acceleration or the boat is underpowered go with 
    a 13"x15".  If the boat has power to spare or you'll never tow a skier try 
    a 13"x19".  You'll also need a tachometer and a speedometer to know whether 
    you've selected the right prop.  When the boat is propped correctly, you'll 
    be able to reach the max rpm of the operating range (usually 5000-5500 for
    and outboard), but should not be able to exceed it.

    Rick    

    If you need a manual or replacement parts a local shop here seems to
    stock many of the older parts.  Call Dick Smith at Dick's Marine, phone
    708-587-2102.  He usually has this type of stuff new or used.  He is
    the largest dealer for outboard motor parts in this area.

I've got a parts problem.

I the 2 exhaust manifold gaskets for a '62 Mercury 700.

These gaskets are no longer available from Mercury.  I've called
a few shops in the Southern NH area no one has them in stock.

The number in the previous reply is for Chicago, is there any place
closer where I might be able to find these gaskets?

If I could I'd rather find the actual gasket rather than building my
own.

Thanks,
George

    
    
     I'd get the part no (or no's) and simply start calling dealers. You
    may luck out find a dealer who has some dust covered ones in stock.

    
    Try Grubb's Marine in Spring City PA at 215-326-8437.  The owner,
    Bob Grubb, is a fellow member of the Antique Outboard Motor Club.  
    He specializes in the restoration of old Mercurys, and carries
    all kinds of old parts and restoration supplies.  Tell him Rick
    Wilson from the AOMC sent you.
    
    Rick

    Basically I've done that, none of the local dealers have it.

    One dealer mentioned he might be able to get them from some guy
    in New Jersey.  Anyone know who this might be?  

    George

    Grubb's had it thanks!!

    George

    Rick Wilson identified a brass prop I found on the bottom of
    Winnipesaukee as coming from a 50hp merc or a merc of similar size.
    Anybody interested?
    
    John H-C

I am considering buying an old 16' ski boat equipped 
with an old 1965 65HP Merc Zeiker (Sp ?).  

The Head gasket has been changed last year, 
the water pump and another
gasket at the foot(did not understant that one).

At some point I was considering an old 1969 Evinrude
60HP V4 but was told by a local Evinrude dealer
that the parts were expensive and that it was 
it had a drinking problem:gas to the gallon.

Does someone know if the 65HP Merc is suffering
of the same problems:
	
	1) Parts prices like if made of gold
	2) Drinking gas like if Saoudia Arabia
	   was moved to Texas?

Michel.

RE: Note 706.19

>> with an old 1965 65HP Merc Zeiker (Sp ?).  

That would be Mercury Kiekhaefer.  Carl Kiekhaefer was the founder of Merc.

>> The Head gasket has been changed last year, 

I would question why.  No big deal if it was removed just for inspection
or carbon removal.  But since the water pump and head gasket were both
recently replaced, it sounds as if this motor *may* have been overheated
very badly.  A compression check and a test drive should tell you a lot.
Listening for strange noises.  And look for signs of burned or discolored
paint on the powerhead, especially near the exhaust ports.

>> At some point I was considering an old 1969 Evinrude 60HP V4 but was 
>> told by a local Evinrude dealer that the parts were expensive and that 
>> it was it had a drinking problem:gas to the gallon.

Yes and no.  Parts are dirt cheap, complete parts motors can be had for 
$100 or less.  I just sold one with all remote controls and electrics 
for $150.  But they drink gas like there's no tomorrow.  My father's 16' 
Glastron with a 1961 Johnson 75hp V4 could kill a 6 gallon tank in under
45 minutes.

>> Does someone know if the 65HP Merc is suffering of the same problems:
>>      1) Parts prices like if made of gold
>>      2) Drinking gas like if Saudi Arabia was moved to Texas?

Parts will probably be a little more expensive.  Check with dealers in
your area first.  And gas mileage should be quite a bit better than the
1960's OMC V4's.  But again, check this motor very closely for signs of
a bad overheating before you put down your money.

Rick

>Does someone know if the 65HP Merc is suffering
>of the same problems:
	
>	1) Parts prices like if made of gold
>	2) Drinking gas like if Saoudia Arabia
>	   was moved to Texas?

    Parts aren't too bad if you can find them.  You are in direct competition
    with a friend of mine, since he has an early 60's 65hp Merc :-).

    Gas, well we didn't use it TOO much last year, but it did seem do go 
    through gas faster than I expected.

    We did have to replace the water jacket gasket.  We had a problem burning
    the number 4 plug.  Hopefully the cleaning out of the cooling ports and
    the new gasket will solve the heating/cooling problem.

    You might also want to check the condition of the wiring, it was a little
    shot on my friends boat.  

    Green's Marine in Hookset seems to have a pretty good Mercury parts dept.

    George

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              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                                -< Powerboats >-
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Note 1073.0                      new/old mercury                      No replies
APACHE::BROWN                                        15 lines  12-JUL-1993 15:32
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    Greetings
    
     Can someone point me to the note that refers to a problem with
     older (1969) Mercury outboards. Talking with Rick W this AM and
     he mentioned that this was a problem relative to a potentially
     corrosive lower shaft (not SS).
    
     Should a 1969 50 HP be able to 'plane' a 16ft alum runabout?
     If no then could it be the prop angle-Power vs Speed prop? 
    
     Heading to Nova Scotia this Saturday with my new/old boat and 
     don't want to be tied to the dock.
    
     Thanks
     BBrown 

    
    
    Unless you have overloaded your boat totally, I would think that a 50HP
    (even the older heavy OMC's) should easily plane a 16' aluminum if it's
    got a good prop and the motor is mounted correctly.  I take it that the
    boat is not planing now (or why else would you ask?).  I would doubt
    that your boat has a tach but can you tell if the engine sounds like
    it's over-revving or under-revving when at wide open throttle?  
    When you say 16' aluminum, I'm thinking of a light weight boat with
    maybe a small console.  This is not one of those big, old aluminum
    boats which were not much lighter than fiberglass and alot tougher, is
    it?  I know a guy who has a 17' aluminum boat with a six cylinder Ford
    in it that was used as a ski tow vehicle at Whalom Park in the sixties.
    The thing is bullet proof and weighs a ton.  A 50HP outboard would
    never plane that boat!
    Best bet is to let Rick W. take a look at it.  You may have a long
    shaft motor on a boat that needs a short shaft or the prop is
    incorrect.
    Wayne  (Note: standard dis-claimer in affect about being an
    inboard-type-of-guy and not having any real experience with outboards!) 

    Wayne
    
     Thanks for the reply....
    
     The boat is a 1969 heavy aluminum Starcraft..it is towable by my
     Honda Prelude.
     
     The boat will only "plow" thru the water and will not try to plane.
    
     I have not tried adjusting the tilt of the motor and have noticed
     the prop is slightly dinged. Cavitation appears to be minimal(not-
     sure on this), I did pop the cover and pulled the plugs and did not
     see any obvious problems on the plugs...heavy oil etc etc.
     I have purchased 4 new plugs. Can you do the screw driver in the
     plug socket and gap to the plus cap on a marine engine plug-obviously
     with the lower unit in a barrel of water?
    
     I would guess the engine is under-revving my 12 year old son
    inadvertantly leaned on the forward advanced level while underway
    and got a few higher revs(sound, not tach).
    
     I've gotten new tires/rims,dewired and rewired all lights and horn
     and removed the seats---we'll be fishing 'Novi' salt water for
     mackeral/stripers/blues/halibut and dont want to deal with non-movable
     seats. The only thing now is the dam power or lack of it.
    
     Again Merci for your input...
     
     The Canuck

    You might check the shift linkage adjustment; the throttle will only
    advance so far if the shifter is not all the way into gear.  This
    is intended to keep you from using full throttle in reverse.  On
    Evenrudes, if the shift cable isn't adusted correctly, you will get
    this problem.  
    
    Carl

    50 HP PLANE a 16 ft Al runabout......
    
    I have a 25 HP Johnson which has NO PROBLEM planing my 17 foot wooden
    runabout.
    
    Yes.... you 50 should be able to plane the boat.
    
    Jeff

    
    I've got an old 50hp Merc which is proving pretty faithful.
    However, it still has a problem starting and running at lower
    speeds.  It is necessary to continously play with the choke
    until it realizes that the throttle has been advanced.  Once it
    kicks in, it runs great.  Once I back the throttle off, it wants
    to stall again, and I reach for the choke button again.  It doesn't
    matter how long it's been running, just doesn't like the low rpms.
    
    I inspected the fuel pump (diaphram) for holes, didn't see any.
    
    Previous notes mention vacum leaks in fuel lines, how does one
    check this out?  I noticed that the primer bulb looses pressure.
    Is this normal?  I tried priming it again while it's about to
    stall, and I'm not exactly sure if it helps.  It definately
    doesn't have the same effect as choking it (which works all the time).
    
    Any other idea's?
    -(dan)

    If choking works, I would look at the "idle circuit" in the
    carbeuretor. The Idle adjustment may be off. My usual starting point,
    if I don't have info to the contrary is to close the idle mixture
    (not the idle speed) all the way then open it 1.5 turns.
    
    You also may have somethng blocking the idle path like a speck of
    foreign material or varnish from old gas.
    
    My first guess.
    
    Bill
    
    

    Could it be as simple as turning the idle speed screw up a bit?
    
    Mark

    And from another note in here on a 110, it might be a vacuum leak, like
    porous carb gaskets, or some such.
    
    Carl

    
    Great news...
    
    Bill, I found my Merc manual to help locate the Idle Adjustment Screws
    on the Carbs.  I then did as you suggested.  I just got back from a
    local lake, and bingo, the motor ran great, I didn't have to use the
    choke at all, THANKS!
    
    -(dan)