Conference vicki::boats

    If you have checked the entire system from input to output, the only
    thing left is the thermostat.....

    I`ll second the idea on the thermostat. Have you ever replaced it
    before. The boat is an `80, and this could easily be your problem.
    
    Good luck, we don`t have much of a season left....we got 3" of SNOW
    here in Michigan yesterday.
    
    
    				jeff b.

re                        <<< Note 544.0 by MAMIE::HAMEL >>>
>                         -< My Impeller won't impel! >-

>        The *last* weekend at the Vermont "get-away", unseasonably
>    warm temperatures, *GLASSSSSSSS* calm water, and a "disintegrated"
>    impeller.  Agony.

	I was on Willoughby on friday and saturday, ooooohhhhh NICE !

>                    Boat:    1980 MasterCraft
>                    Engine:  351 Ford PCM

>        I have replaced the impeller but still get *NO* water into the
>    system.  I have checked for blocks and leaks, twice, and have found

>        Anyone have any ideas?  

	Check the impellor  *_AGAIN_*,  if the new one is toasted you 
only fixed a symptom the first time.  I'd guess that your  "suction
hose"  (sorry, don't know the proper name) is
collapsed/or_collapses_when_sucked_upon, i.e. check it with the engine
running.  Does the M/C have the clear plastic bowl between the pick up
at the bottom of the boat and the pump ? (some kind of sediment trap,
I THINK)  if so, check the gasket for vacuum leaks.   Disclaimer, this
is sheer guesswork - but you knew that already, right ? 

    
    Dean,
    
    		Another interesting problem I've seen on PCM
    water pumps is that inside the impellor housing is a piece
    of brass about one inch long and mounted to the side of the housing.
    This piece lifts the impellor blades away from the perfectly
    round impellor housing, which creates suction. 
    
    		On some pumps, its possible for the above mentioned
    piece to move from it's original resting place thereby not lifting
    the impellor blades at the right time and subsequently not creating
    the proper suction....
    
    		I'd have to look at mine to be sure of the proper location,
    but I think it's just after the intake hole. My motor is LH rotation
    so I'd assume a RH motor would be opposite.
    
    Let me know if you need a hand...
    
    Rick

    
    
    	Correction:::::     Opps!
    
    		My 351 PCM is RH which means the blades hit the
    brass piece jsut prior to the intake hole....
    
    Rick
    
    		I'll check it tonite to make sure...

    SURE YOU DON'T HAVE AN AIR LEAK, BETWEEN THE PUMP AND THE THRU
    HULL FITTING. LIKE A LOOSE HOSE CLAMP, OR A HOLE IN THE HOSE.
    GIVEN ITS A 1980, MAYBE.
    
    JIM.

The Thermostat:

        The thermostat comes *after* the water pump.  With the thermostat
    closed, the water flows straight through the exhaust manifold and 
    out the back.  Once the engine reaches operating temperature, the
    thermostat opens allowing water to flow through the rest of the
    engine.  Thermostat failure would result in overheating, I don't
    think it comes into play in my case.  But it was a good suggestion.


Back to The Problem:

        Picture this:  Boat sitting in the water, engine running, hose
    coming OUT OF the water pump disconnected, *NO* water coming out
    of the water pump.  I'm convinced that there MUST be an air leak
    SOMEPLACE thats causing me to lose suction.  And I hate it when 
    that happens.



P.S.  THANKS to everyone for such quick response.  6 replies in less than
      half-a-day.  Its appreciated.

    THIS IS GONNA SOUND TOO SIMPLE, BUT IS THE THRU-HULL VALVE OPEN.
    
    AND I DON'T MEAN "DID YOU OPEN IT" IS IT IN FACT OPEN...
    
    JIM.

    Check notes 521, 479, and 384.  This seems to be a common problem
    this season.
    
    I agree with the suggestion that it can't be a stuck thermostat.
    The thermostat is normally closed anyway until the motor warms
    up, and the pump should be functioning during that time.
    
    Some likely causes:          
    
    - A poor seal between the pump impeller and the housing.  Very
      likely the cause if you replaced the impeller but not the housing.
    
    - A restriction in the water pickup system.  Check the pickup
      hose and the screen if there is one.
    
    - An air leak on the suction side causing the pump to be unable 
      to prime itself.
         
    Even if the cause of the problem is not in the pump itself, you
    may have to replace it again if the pump's been run dry.  Good
    luck and let us know the cause when you find it.  Looking back
    over the other water pump notes, not one of them has a final reply
    stating that the problem has been permanently fixed.  I hope
    you have better luck.
    
    Rick W.

    I'd guess an air-leak someplace...If all your hoses are o.k. and clamps
    are tight, maybe a cracked oil cooler? (I hope not) 
    This is assuming that the impeller is turning inside it's housing.
    D.W.

	All good suggestions so far, but it sounds like the problem has been
isolated to the pump or suction line since when the discharge is disconnected
there is no output.  Assuming the pump is similar to a Sherwood or Jabsco, if
you disconnect the suction and discharge, put your hand over the pump inlet
and turn the impeller you should feel a suction.  If no suction the pump is
bad.  Check the pump for by pulling the cover to see that the impeller is
actually rotating (ie blades slipping on hub or sheered woodruf (sp?) key),or
other causes in previous replys.  If the pump works, try hooking up a source
(garden hose, air hose) to the suction line to see if movement is allowed to
the sea suction.  If water/air come out the sea suction your not obstructed,
and you need to plug the suction (close the hull valve) and continue to apply
pressure to find the leak in the suction line.

	Good Luck, Rick

	I had a problem like this with a Sherwood pump. The drive belt had 
been tightened too much, wearing out the pulley shaft seal. The pump would 
suck air from around the shaft instead of water from the intake hose.


-Chuck

    
    Chuck,
    
            How did you fix the problem?  Replace the seal?  I'm working
    	with a Sherwood pump also.  Where did you find the replacement
    	parts?  Sounds like this might be my answer!
    
    		THANKS!
    

    We bought a new pump from Overton's for about $130. Out here in New 
Mexico, there just isn't any local supplier of parts for competition ski 
boats and we didn't want to miss a weekend of skiing.

-Chuck

    Dean,
    	
    	A couple more things in addition to what Chuck said.
    Don't forget to clean the crap out of the tranny oil
    cooler.  Disconnect the hose that runs from the bottom 
    of the boat to the cooler.  Look inside the cooler and
    see if it is clogged up.  This is where my problem was,
    it was full of small sticks and twigs.  It caused the
    impellor to explode.
    	If your impellor has exploded, or if the case of the 
    pump got hot, then I suggest you replace the entire
    pump as Chuck said.  If you replace only the impellor,
    I can promise from experience that this will happen again.
    If the pump ran dry then it likely got hot, and the
    bearings are shot, like Chuck said.  Replace or rebuild
    the case.
    	Last thing, to prevent further problems, install a
    filter, a la Correct Craft, in the line before the cooler.
    
    Rob
          

>        	Last thing, to prevent further problems, install a
>    filter, a la Correct Craft, in the line before the cooler.
>    
>    Rob
 
    	Rob,
    
    		Look at what you wrote! A non-nasty comment about
    Correct Craft, why it might even be construed as a compliment!
    Better lay off that Arizona sunshine!!  :-)
    
    Rick

    Sorry Rick, I must have lost my head for a moment.
    
    BTW that is "New Mexico" sunshine, you forgot, your
    brain must be frozen up there in the cold N.E. 8-)
    Any how it's not hot anymore, it froze here last 
    night.  

RE: Note 544.17

>>    BTW that is "New Mexico" sunshine, you forgot, your
>>  brain must be frozen up there in the cold N.E. 8-)
>>  Any how it's not hot anymore, it froze here last 
>>  night.  

It's been 70-80 degrees every day for the past week up here
in the "cold N.E."  It started the day after I winterized
my boat.  8^(

All that's supposed to change soon though.  Ol' Man Winter
is coming in later this week.

Rick W.

    
    	What ever happened to Dean's impellor?
    
    	As was eluded to in the "1991 Ski Season" note, the motor
    box was open on Ski Nautique #2 (shouldn't mine be Ski Nautique #1?).
    The belt for the water pump kept flying off once power was requested.
    BTW: It ran fine idling in the driveway for about 1/2 hour.
    
    	It took a while to figure out what I'd done to my poor 351 PCM.
    I noticed that the pump pulley was not in line with the belt which
    drove it. "How'd that happen" I said. "Is the mounting bracket bent?".
    After a fair amount of head scratching I deduced that the
    recommissioning installation was inCorrect. What I had done was
    tightened the belt by pulling on the impellor end of the pump (the
    opposite end from the pulley). This caused the pump pulley to become
    out of line with the belt and even allowed me to tighten all the
    mounting bolts with the pump installed as such.
    
    	Moral of the story... Don't be an idiot like me... nah that's not
    the moral... When tightening the pump belt apply pressure directly to
    the pulley area, not the area away from the belt. Of course, everyone
    probably knew that already, right?
    
       BTW: Even when pulling directly on the pulley the opposite end
    had a tendency to slide back and upset the pulley alignment. So, keep
    a close eye on it....
    
    Rick  (Already_launched... naaa nana na na na)
    

    	Come to think of it, my son installed the pump this year....
    yeah, that's the ticket.. I can blame it on him..... :-)

    	And I might as well say it before Reg does.... Yes, Nautique #2 
    was towed into the tools by Nautique #1. But, what could be less
    embarrassing than being towed by another Nautique?

    	If the only other boat on the lake was a MC I would have asked
    the windsurfer for a tow or paddled.... :-)

    Rick

re .19

	Moral o' the story ought'a be....

	Don't putz around with that thar  "winterizin'"  stuff.

	If Ya keep goin'   Aahl   wint_ah  long   Ya won't haffta put no
	pumps back anywhere...


	R

Naaah, you guys have it all wrong.  If you've been following the Sea Ray
topic, you know that the moral of the story is....





Buy an outboard.


Didn't we have problems last year too at the Suncook Lake gumball (Reg)? 
Wasn't my outboard the only one that ran that day out of what, 3, 4 boats?
So I suppose it was my fault if the cuddy cabin wouldn't clear the bridge 
and we couldn't reach the slalom course?    8^)

Sorry, I couldn't resist...


Rick

RE: .20

Now Rick, you once said that a MC could pull a house.  What could 
possibly be better to tow a dead INcorrect Craft. :-)

Rob

re            <<< Note 544.22 by NRADM::WILSON "On the boat again..." >>>
>                              -< wrong again.... >-

> Buy an outboard.

	In da words of zee grate poet....


	WE  DON'T  NEED  NO  STEEENKIN'  TWO  STROKES !




> Didn't we have problems last year too at the Suncook Lake gumball (Reg)? 

	Nah, that wasn't a design problem - it was Roger's fault, he 
was talking at me so I forgot to put the strainer on  (-:, (-:


> Wasn't my outboard the only one that ran that day out of what, 3, 4 boats?

	Oh, mine RAN   for a while..... ran real good, but not for long.

> So I suppose it was my fault if the cuddy cabin wouldn't clear the bridge 
> and we couldn't reach the slalom course?    8^)

	We need a project.  How would you like an open boat, just like 
	the rest of us ?   It would look  REAL NICE  I promise...  (-:

    
Aaaaah, I think I'll pass on the offer to take the cuddy off my boat.
Nice of you to offer though...   8^)


But wait til-U-see the boat I've been working on in my basement over
the winter.  It's *bright* yellow, will definitely clear the bridge 
at Suncook, and should make an appearance at one of the gumballs around
May or so...

Rick