Conference vicki::boats

    
    Coming from Winni...I don't remember that boat (too many, can only
    remember the exceptional ones).
    
    If your 'gut' tells you not to do business with Owen's, you can
    easily try the globe/soundings/wheels&keels etc.. There are 'tons'
    of boats for sale now, so many that you don't have to endure a bad
    salesman.
                                   
    Baja seems to make a good boat for the price - check the papers
    to see what the range is on the particular boats you and your husband
    are considering.
                                  

    re .1
    
    When you say there are "tons of boats for sale", are you referring
    to only performance boats or power boats in general? 
    
    I know the used sail boat market has been dead for a while and I
    am wondering if we will see the same in the used power boat market.
    
    Most of the used boats I have looked at (sportfisherman), seem to
    still carry a high price tag. Is this an asking game? 
    
    Anyone try to sell a used boat lately? How is the market?

    i don't know much about Baja's but have done business with Owen's
    for years with good luck. Randy can be "unprofessional" at times
    but will do business. I've bought new motors, swapped parts from
    old motors, etc. , he is willing to look at any offer. He owns the
    business so if he makes a deal it stands.
    Just had my MercCruiser powered boat(not bought at Owens) serviced
    there, work done on budget and before schedule. Shop rate is $40/hour.
    3 1/2 hours labor to replace gimbel bearing, repair shifter, replace
    shift cable plus some small parts. Total bill $260. Rebuild a prop
    $60. I think he does an OK job, you just have to let him know you're
    ready to do business not just tire kicking.

    Your on the right track about the market going soft, it's following the
    rest of the economy. However the type of boat your looking at still
    seems to be going strong. ie: Sportfisherman Style. Maybe not as strong
    as last year but it has lost far less momentum than the proformance and 
    pleasure boat market.
    Last fall I and a few others where looking into starting another boat
    dealership in the N.E. Mass area. After carful market analysis we found
    the trend to be on a decline that would not support our investment
    plans at this time. 
    
    So the bottom line is if you want a Sportfisherman? I would still go
    for it as you may be able to pick it up for a riight price. I would
    hold onto it until the market swings upward, before reselling.
    
    Lets face it, Few boats are bought for investments that will be able to
    do anything except offset some tax earnings. So get what you will
    enjoy.
    You only live once!
    
    BTW- Is it a Baja or Bahia your looking at in the 25 ft range? The Baja
    is a high quality hull but are usually in a smaller size. The Bahia is
    not made as well; so be carful when you buy and have the hull surveyed.
    
                                                    Walt
    

    re .1
    
    the used boat market is glutted (which is nice for you, the buyer,).
    This refers to the powerboat category - not really up on the fishboats.
    
    I'm a little confused as to what you're looking for. The BAJA Force
    line is not (am I mistaken?) a sportfisher - it's a perf/sportboat.
                                                                         
    Also, the game is always 'ask high' - 'offer low'; then see if there's
    some point at which you can agree. Having sold a few boats, I'll
    tell you that the 'game' doesn't really start until there's interest
    in the boat, then comes the price discussion.
    
    
    
    
    

    The boat we want to buy is a BAJA, a performance/speed boat.  Baja
    makes small sport boats as well as 37' plus high performance speed
    boats.
    
    What are the minimum things we should have done to this boat to
    make sure it is OK, before we sign on the bottom line?  The dealer
    mentioned that we can buy insurance on the engines which covers
    major internal engine damage.  It costs ~$500 for the year.  DO
    you think the insurance is the way to go?  
    
    Also, we have been looking at used boats for many months.  There
    are very few quality used high performance boats (i.e. Formula,
    Cigarette, Donzi, etc.) for sale.  Plus, those that are for sale,
    are BIG money, with lots of hours on the engines.  We were about
    to give up and buy a new Baja, when the used 250 Force became
    available.  I can't believe how much money they are asking for
    a new Baja 250 Sport.  The thing is stripped, and they want $32K
    for it.
    

    
    	Keep in mind that for boats, even more so than cars, there
    is LIST price and SELLING price. For instance, I walked into
    Forrest Marine the other day and asked the price of the 1989
    Ski Nautique. The salesman said "25k", then I asked the selling
    price and he replied "19.5"..... Big difference!
    
    Good Luck,
    
    Rick
    
    BTW: Hey Mikey or Mike S., did Stewart sell his 250 yet?
    

    You say the boat is stripped for $32K? If so you can figure on an
    additional 10 K to get her operating, not including any sportfishing
    gear. A BAJA is not a sportfisherman in any stretch of the imagination. 
    The Bahia is a sportfisherman. If your going to be fishing you have
    different needs than a cruiser, ie: Carpet is a real pain to clean. Low
    gunnals and lots of cockpit space are wanted as well as lots of deck
    storage lockers. Just two different worlds entirely.
    
    $32 K does not sound out of line if its in good shape. Depends on what
    engines you have and their condition.
    
    Things to look for. 1) Solid hull with no voids.
                        2) All fittings in good shape.
                        3) Electrical system- Proper and operating.
                        4) Engines tight and funtioning.
                        5) Cosmetics in fair condition.
    
    Have fun!    Walt
    

    I think one of the first things to do is look up the boat in the
    BUC guide and see what its book values are. Wholesale, trade in
    and current retail are good to know. Also important to know would
    be the original retail price. 
    
    Also, what is the engine and how many hours. 
    
    And last but not least, have you checked on insurance? The results
    of this search may dictate what you buy for a boat.
    
    I agree with the others about the used boat market. I myself think
    it is real bad. A friend of mine tried to sell a 17' Crestliner
    Rampage (1986) for $9800 ($18,000 new). After a month of no calls,
    he traded it in last weekend. Not a good sign.
    
    Scott
    

    
    you've gotten some excellent advice so far.
    
    do check the book value on the boat.
    
    if i buy used, i always:
    compression test the motors.
    check the outdrives for water in the gearcases (milky appearance)
    test the transmissions (unless they're Alpha drives, etc.)
    inspect the stringers for signs of failure/water logging 
    inspect the 'flex points' of the hull for stress cracks (discoloring
    along an axis) 
    check along the rub rail (from the inside) to make sure the hull/deck
    joint is still perfect
    
    
    all of the above are things that a good 'surveyor' can do for you
    (at your expense).
    
    the price is not unreasonable for a 25' sportboat with twins - also
    you are not seeing the real price of the formulas/donzis UNTIL YOU
    MAKE A FORMAL OFFER - THEN THE COUNTER OFFER SETS THE STAGE FOR
    YOU.
    
    there's more 'play' in a boat price than you can imagine. a general
    rule is to take 20% off the list and that's probably about where
    the boat was bought...then start taking an additional 15% off the
    value for each year. subtract for high hours, problem signs...and
    don't hesitate to walk away from a boat if it seems to have too
    many problems. boat/motor repair is $$$$$.
                              
    
    
    

    	I'm in class till tomorrow, but Linda I'll give you a call after
    that to discuss some of my thoughts on N-Force-R, Randy Owens, and
    new/used Baja prices in general.
    
    re .7
    
    	Rick, Stewert's boat was a 1989 Baja 226 Sport - and yes he just
    sold it this past week.
    
    BTW - For what it's worth, Powerboat Magazine just awarded the Baja 
    	  250 Sport - Full Sized Sport Boat of the Year...and yes the 250
    	  does base price @ 32K (35-37K with 454 Mag), but have you priced
    	  other 25' performance boats lately (ie. Formula 24' @ >55K) 
    
    								-mike-

    
    Re:  BAJA boats and Owens Marine.
    
    I own a BAJA 174 Sunsport and I am VERY pleased with the performance
    and quality of BAJA boats.   When shopping for the boat I had visited
    Owens Marine and checked there prices and service department.
    Their prices are not bad and there service department is large,
    but I was not impressed with their sales people,  they were not
    interested in giving you much attention unless you already had your
    check book out,  and was not even busy the day I was there.   The
    size of their business seems to one where you do not get much personal
    attention.  I tried to find out what getting some service done in
    the middle of the season was like and I never got a staight answer,
    making me believe that it could be a long wait,  But others may
    be able to answer this question better for you.
    
    If you want to compare prices or dealers give Browns Marine up by
    lake Sunapee a visit.  This is where I got my boat and I have been 
    pleased with the service I have recieved.  Stuart Brown is the
    owner and a real good guy.  Don't know how his prices compare since
    I do not think he does the volume of a place like Owens,  but peace
    of mind was worth a couple hundred bucks to me.
    
    If you go back to Owens and see Randy again you may get better service
    since a return visit shows you are definitly in the market.  I have
    never heard of anything bad of Owens, I just got the same impression
    as you did.  Bottom Line - be 100% sure, and then have fun.
    
    You should be able to negotiate some kind of engine/hull warranty
    while talking price with them.  (a month or two warrenty should
    be long enough to bring out any serious problems)  I would try to
    negotiate to near a price you like then ask him to throw in the
    warranty,  what does he have to lose if the boat is sound.
    
    Good Luck,
    Mike Smith
    
    

    I currently own a Baja Force 250. I don't know how the one you are
    looking at is rigged or what options(power, etc.) t has but the price
    sounds more than reasonable. How many hours are on it? Was the bottom
    ever painted? If you can find someone who knows the original owner(s)
    find out how they treated the boat. Ask for maintenance records.
    If you want more info I'm at DTN 352-2184. The 250 I have know is my
    second Baja And I think my ninth or tenth boat. I'm very happy overall
    but there are areas for improvement it depends waht you are going to do
    with it. They are a quality boat and offer a lot a value.  
    
         Good Luck,
    
         Bill
    

    Just as a point of referance for you, I bought my Ranger at Owen's
    Marine and have been treated very well. I found that you don't speak
    to anyone but Earl, he's the only one there who can make things
    happen properly. As far as Randy is concerned, he may be the owner,
    but is not the person to be speaking to, he's got the personality
    of a door knob, and can't deal with people. If you need service,
    you call Earl and set up an appointment and lay out your expectations
    and he'll make it happen. I have found that staying with the boat
    (if it's a small repair) is the way to get to know the mechanics so
    you can get more personal service. This is important when things
    get busy there and you need your boat back in service ASAP. When
    you go there again, mention my name to Earl, that might grease the
    process for you.....Jim Mercurio  

Earl, Peter, Randy: in that order.

I firmly believe they have some of the best mechanics in the part of NE. I
bought one of my boats there, and bring both my boats (24 & 14-1/2) there for 
any service that's over my head. 

I've heard numerous complaints from people who have gone there once or twice
and been turned off by the lousy customer relations; well, I think it's a case
of selective customer relations. Some of the replies you've read here have
mentioned it. Tire kickers and people who think they're going to play
one dealer off against another... ain't gonna like Owens. Go there with a
product in mind, talk seriously, and you'll be treated well.

Go there with a product you bought elsewhere and you'll probably be told 
(a) it will take four months to schedule you in the shop, or (b) "we service
what *we* sell, and we can't service you." Buy a boat/motor there and you 
will receive service. That has been my direct experience. I've been dealing
with Randy et al for years -- maybe 15? 

Sweethearts? No. Mechanical service? Excellent. 

Art

	I too previously owned a Baja and found the technical people @ OWENS
a real pleasure to discuss things with, but when time to trade up came I went
elsewhere.  Clearly a Baja is a top-of-the-line boat and I never put my
rig thru anything it coulden't handle w/ease.  I just got tired of sending my
wife or friends (to pick up a part etc.) where they would get a ration of SH*T
if they did not talk to the 'right' person.

	Part of running a "business" is understanding the customer.  I would
suspect that OWENS will fall especially far given the tight boating market.
People do not like to do business where they don't feel good.  There are a few
extremly capible Marina's around that are very NICE to work with.  IF you
don't mind the up-front atmosphere of OWENS, there are many good things &
people in back.  However, if you want to feel good with a Marina as a
full-service 'assistant' to your boating needs, Owens is not the place for you.

Garry

    WE WATER TESTED THE USED BAJA FORCE 250 (N-FORCE-R) LAST NIGHT ON
    THE MERRIMACK RIVER.  EVERYTHING SEEMED OK, EXCEPT WHEN WE TURNED
    A FAST CORNER, THE ENGINE SOUNDED ODD.  
    
    ANY IDEA WHAT POTENTIAL PROBLEMS THIS MIGHT INDICATE?
    

    That depends on what you heard. Could be normal or could be
    cavitation(prop), exhaust ventilation(?), bad qimbal bearing($). , etc.
    Try to describe it.
    
        Bill
    

    
    
    Hi all,
    
    I have an Unrelated BAJA question.  My brother recently puchased
    a BAJA 16 foot ski/speed boat (I'm not sure of the model, but
    it's one of the typical low-to-the-water jobs).  Anyhow, we 
    put a 115 H.P. Mercury (circa 1975 ish), and were disappointed
    with the top end speed.  The boat is rated for a 120 H.P., and
    we were expecting 50+ MPH (The dealer, said 60 was not unreasonable
    to expect).   Well, the maiden voyage yesterday only produced about
    39 MPH, but out of the hole seemed pretty good although not
    spectacular.  My questions are these:
    
    1) Is 50 + MPH unreasonable to ask for this set up ?  The boat is
       a 1984 and in good condition.  I have seen similar set-ups
       with this type of performance (Hydrostream, Checkmate etc.)
    
    2) The boats hadles pretty well, but could this be a Prop/trim 
       problem??
    
    Any info would be appreciated, otherwise the boat is a disappointment.
    
    Walter
    

    Should go 50.
    
    Which prop?
    
    My Glastron will hit about 45 with either a 17" or 19" prop on a
    90 Merc.
    
    Don

        It should do 50+.  My 20' Baja with a Mariner 150 does 55,
        and that is at 5000' elevation.  It has a 19 pitch prop.  
        You should be able to use something higher at sea level.
        If your prop is pitched wrong for the top end, you should have
        all sorts of power coming out of the hole.  Do you have a tach,
        and if so, how close are you to red-line?
        
        /wayne

    My guess is that the circa 1975 merc is less than healthy. Any outboard
    older than 10 years that has never had an overhaul is most likely
    putting out much less than the rated horse power. The hull unless there
    is something wrong with it should have no problem with 50 + with 115
    hp.
    
      Bill
     

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    Note 678.0                 Motorboat Spring 89 issue?              1 reply
AIMHI::SJOHNSON                                       7 lines  30-MAY-1990 14:56
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    Does anyone have the Motorboat magazine Spring 1989 issue?
    
    I was looking for information on the BAJA 235 and apparently it is in
    that issue.  
    
    Thanks in advance.
    Sonia Johnson
                                                             

    
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Note 678.1                 Motorboat Spring 89 issue?                     1 of 1
MCIS2::BOUCHARD                                      19 lines  30-MAY-1990 15:48
                             -< Baja's a good one >-
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    Sonia,
    
    	I don't have the motorboat magazine you're looking for
    but I'm looking at the Baja catalogue right now and it looks
    similar to the 226 Sport I just purchased at Owen's Marine
    in Manchester. I can certainly vouch for the Baja's so far.
    I've owned mine for about 1 month and haven't had a problem 
    yet. the boat haddles the heaviest swells on Lake Winnipasaukee
    with no pounding at all. The nose goes down real quickly and
    it cuts in real well for quick turns. I had it going 65mph
    with the 7.4 liter Bravo and that wasn't everything. The only
    negative thing is that if you're getting your's at Owen's and
    using it anywhere but the Merimack River you won't get any
    Service out of Randy. On the Lake, Channel Marine is getting
    it's first shipment this week. They have an excellent rep for
    servicing all boats they carry.  
    
    Good Luck,
    MG