Conference taveng::bagels

Try the Acton Bakery on 2A in Acton, Mass. They also sell Chahlah and
various other traditional European pastry.

For those who have the fortune to visit Long Island, check out
Ben's Kosher Deli in Baldwin Harbor (home !!) or Hempstead.
They have the best reputation in that area for quality kosher
eats...

Micahel

	The best good food, like bagels and kosher meats is:

			Pick-A-Chick
			285  Harvard Ave.
			Brookline, Taxa.	
			Telephone Number 277-6970

The best Bagels that I ever had were from the New York Bagel Shop on
13 th Avenue in Boro Park (Brooklyn).

I don't remember all the types they had, but there were at least a dozen
different types (water, egg, onion, garlic, rye, sesame seed, poopie seed,
and others).

The Bakery is strictly Kosher and closed on Shabbat.

I also remember that while I was in Boston (1961 - 1965) my uncle used to
get onion Bagels late Saturday night (on the way back from Rabbi Solovietchik's
Shiur in Talmud and Chumash). I don't remember where the place bakery was. I 
only remember that the Bagels were great.

Cb.

BTW, Someone should inform Bob Wyman of this note. He loves Bagels.

.3 perpetuates the great Boston Myth that Jaff's Pick-a-Chick has good
bagels.  FEH!  Jaff's has big, soft, bagel-flavored DONUTS!  They are
FLUFFY!  Disgusting.  Anyone who grew up in the true homeland of bagels
(anywhere within 50 miles of Brooklyn) knows that bagels are firm and
chewy!

My childhood's definitive bagels -- I think it's still there -- came
from the Passaic (NJ) Baking Company, on Hope Ave. a block from Beth
Israel Hostpital.  Good, firm water bagels that turn to rocks in about
6 hours.  None of that heretical raisin stuff, either.  Actually, any

bagelry in that area can do better than Jaff's.  So can Freedman's,
Egermans, or several other Boston area places.

Fred

Hear, Hear....

If anyone ever makes it to Margate City, N.J., the Bagel Hut on Ventnor Ave
has everything (.0) wishes and MORE.

-Paul
P.S.  The queues on Sunday morning are hopelessly long.

Kupel's Bakery
421 Harvard Street
Brookline, MA

Maybe not the BEST bagels around, but the best I know of at any rate.  Next
best I've had have been in New York.  Beats Jaffe's Pick a Chick any day.
And they keep long (i.e. baker's) hours.  It's probably the place stopped at
in Brookline after midnight in 1965 ... Enjoy.

re: 5.5  Eagerman's (Route 9 Eastbound, Natick MA - next to junction of
9 & 27) --- the last few times I bought bagels there, I found them a little
on the stale side.  The only way I could "fix" the situation was to wrap
them up in paper and nuke them in the microwave for 15 seconds... and then
eat them while they're still warm (or they get TOO tough...)

But, all said, they ARE very tasty bagels.  The best bagels I ever had were
as a kid living in NJ (we lived in Highland Park and East Brunswick for
2 years).  Dad used to take us to some place on Tuesday nights for freshly
baked salt bagels.  We'd never had them in New England before and felt as
if we'd struck gold...

< Donna >

Growing up in Rochester NY, we always had two or three really good Jewish
Bakeries to choose from. Moving to the Worcester area 8 years ago left me
hopelessly yearning for the good old days. I finally got desperate, and started
making my own. It is not that difficult, and they taste great. I have a very
good recipe for true, old world style, water bagels, and anyone wishing a copy 
can request it from me at CURIE::GOLD. The real problem is finding the time. 
I used to spend Sunday mornings doing it, but now that the kids are older, I 
have to take them in to hebrew school, and that effectively eliminates half a 
day. As a substitute, I have been buying bagels at a bakery in Worcester called 
Widoff's. They are located on Water Street, with a branch in a supermarket on 
Pleaseant St.

By the way, Widoff's in Worcester makes reasonably good imitation Bagel food.
                                                                               

re: .11

The recipe mentioned works.  Its not difficult, and it doesn't really take
all that much time.  My only complaint is that the bagels are not quite
chewy enough.  I've tried other recipes that produced about the same results,
but taking more time and more work.

Any ideas how to make them more chewy?

And thanks for the recipe!

/Eric

    The all time best I've ever had were from a place in Syosset, Long
    Island, whose name I don't recall.  For those familiar with the
    area, it's right next to the Carvel, about 1/2 mile from the train
    station.  They have many varieties, including something they call
    Super-Onion, which is really an egg bagel, with onion, garlic, poppy
    seed, etc.  It's fantastic.
    
    They've been known to serve stale bagels, but not often.  Most of
    the time, they far outclass any others I've had ... and I've had
    a lot.
    
    Alas, I now live in Concord, MA,  where bagels are considered cuisina
    non grata.  The MetroWest EXTRA rates Eagerman's on Rt. 9 as the
    best, but I find it hard to trust anyplace that advertizes "Baigels".
    
    -pd

    re: .12
    
    I have found that using a high gluten flour, such as King Arthur
    Flour, gives them a more chewy consistancy.

    If you are ever in Syosset again, there are even better bagels !
     I know, because my parents still live there and whenever I go visit
    I wait on line SAturday night/Sunday morning (around 3 am) and buy
    several dozen fresh from the ovens to bring back to NH.  This place
    is open 24 hours!  
    

    So what's the name of place?  "Syosset Bagels?"  That might be the
    place I was thinking of.
    
    -pd

    Try the new Frozen Bagels from Sara Lee.  They are very good when
    prepared according to the instructions.  Also OU endorsed.
    
    Warren

    While we're voting...
    
    Growing up in the middle of Flatbush, I lived around the corner
    from a store called the Bagel Wheel on Flatbush Ave. just off Parkside
    Ave. (near Prospect park).  They used to mass produce bagels for
    all the bar-mitzvah houses etc. in the area.  They had a retail
    store, but if you wanted a 'bull' (large bagel), you had to know
    to ask for it.  I don't think i've ever found bagels that taste
    better, but I'm prejudiced and it's been years.
    
    If anybody finds themselves in Flatbush, I'd be interested to know
    if they're still there.
    
    /s/Herschel.
    

    Could anyone tell me where in the San Francisco Bay area I might
    find an authentic "New York" bagel??  {The assumption is that one
    finds the best bagels in New York}.
    
    A Californian 
    

    I can't remember the name of the place now but I don't think it's
    Syosset bagels.  I think Syosset bagels is the one you were thinking
    of.  This place is in the other direction.  Actually, it's probably
    in Plainview or Woodbury or maybe even Hicksville (they all come
    together in that area.)

    
    
    RE .19 - The last time I was in San Fran. my sister took me to 
    	     a place called 'The Bagelry' it might have been on HYDE
	     Street.  It might not be open anymore though.  This was
    	     a few years ago.
    
    As for in NY, the Bagel place on 13th Avenue is good (and Kosher)
    but nearer to home in Staten Island, on Richmond Ave. near the Staten
    Island Mall (hot spot of the forgotten borough) is a bagel store
    under Rabbinical Supervision (excellent Challas) with truly delicious
    bagels and onion board (pletzle).  Being that I doubt if any DECcies
    will risk the Ferry for a bagel, if anyone comes to N.Y. on training
    or anything, right next to our ONE PENN PLAZA office is a store
    called LOX STOCK & BAGELS with I must say the absolute best bagels
    I have found in Manhattan.  It is 33rd St. across from Madison Square
    Garden (so you can get a bagel at Bruin or Celtic away game).
    
    
    Happy Fressing (munching out)
    
    Bruce C.
    		

    ONION BOARDS!!!  I LOVE them!  The deli I used to buy them from
    has closed, and I don't have a recipe for them.  Does anyone know
    of anywhere in Central Mass. that bakes them, or have a recipe?
    
    /Charlotte

    
    
    
    From a gentile who just likes food, the East Side of Providence,R.I.
    in the area of Hope St. and I think Waterman Ave. has a lot of small
    mom & pop stores that cater to the local Jewish population. There
    is also a shop called Bagels and Biyalis(sp.?) in Providence. Sorry
    I don't know the adress.
    
    

Some of the best bagels I've had came from the "HH" (or "HHH" or "HHHH" or
some such) place on Broadway on the upper west side of NYC (mid-80's).  They
were a few doors down from the zaniest (and best?) deli I've been in,
Zabar's.  Before we were married and I got her up here, my wife lived on
86th near Central Park West - a short walk from these delicacies.

BTW, when I was a summer hire back in '78, I lived in Newton and used to go
to a bagel place in Newtonville or Newton Corners that had good Biallys.
The only place I can find in the area now claims they never made Biallys.
Can anyone tell me what this place might have been and if it is still in
operation?

    The Bagel Bakery in Sudbury, which I mentioned in .10, got much
    better within a few days after opening. In fact, I now think it
    has the -best- bagels I've had in the Boston area. They have very
    good smoked fish, too. I especially liked the smoked trout.
    
    It's located on route 20 in western Sudbury, in the "Barnstead Shoppes"
    shopping center, just across from Horse Pond Road.
    
    Best of all, it's only a mile from my house!
    
    --Dan

    Yes, they do have good bagels, but their chive cheese is rather
    thin (=runny).  Also, they serve clam chowder?!  Very strange. 
    These also have knishes baked by the same place that makes the ones
    sold at Zabar's in NY.  They have bialys, too.

    Down here in the swamps of Jersey, WATSON Bagel must be king. Naturally
    they are water bagels, and don't eventhink about asking for "cinnamin-
    raisin" (which I think are traife{not Kosher}). Bravo to those true
    mavens who understand that the best time to get the best bagels
    is between 10 PM Saturday and sunrise Sunday. At Watson there is
    always a line. I don't even think that they are open during the
    day, as they also supply most of the area bakeries, diners, etc.
    Picture it, a whole supermarket (ex-A&P) devoted to the art of BAGELS.
    I bet those places in N.E. think you're supposed to put butter on
    bagels. It's got to be PHILADELPHIA BRAND cream cheese or nothing!!!
    
    Warren S.- shame on you - SARA LEE?!?!?!?!?!
    
    Oh, for a light, fluffy, bialy (from Bialystock Russia), dusted
    with flour, and moist, gentle onions gracing the center. Mmmmmm.
    
    Rich
    

    
    
    you really didn't have to put in the line about Bialystok in there,
    did you...
    
    half of my family came from there.  And none of them were bakers.
    But could they *talk*!
    
    /don feinberg

re .28
    .>>    Warren S.- shame on you - SARA LEE?!?!?!?!?!

        Hopefully you weren't refering to me as I have never had a Sara
    Lee bagel and hope not to every have one. I've never had a 'real'
    NY bagel but had many this past week in Chicago (very tasty)..
    
    Warren S.
    

    Re: 5.27:
    
    Philadelphia Cream Cheese or gournicht???   These days, perhaps,
    but before they were bought out, no one could touch Breakstones.
    
    (Breakstones used to be a Brooklyn owned/operated company.  They
    were bought out by Kraft, who of course manufactures Philly.  Kraft
    changed Breakstones formula, making it more like Philly, so that
    the food would keep longer).
    
    /s/Harris.

    Re: .29
    Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to the other Warren S.
    (Schorr)
    
    Ah, but see what a good job your mother did - INSTANT GUILT!
    
    Rich
    

    DONT KNOCK WHAT YOU HAVEN'T TRIED.
    
    Are the Sara Lee as good as a "good" fresh bagel NO.  But they are
    a lot better than most that can be bought at so called bagel stores.
    And Lenders can't even compare.  But you have to prepare them according
    to the instructions. BTW Bagels are the hot new food in the US.

    Stuff 'n Bagels in Oceanside, NY (on Long Beach Rood near TSS) makes
    great large chewy bagels with lots of topping.  They have an everything
    bagel which gets rye, sesame, onion, garlic,  etc.  Also, there
    is a wonderful Pumpernickle and Onion bagel.
    
    I usually buy 4-5 dozen at a time and put them in the freezer.
    
    BTW
    
    Some different but good bagels can be found in Montreal.  They aren't
    at all like NY bagels and don't try to be.  They are smaller, chewy
    and have a distinct nutty flavor.  I like them as well.
    
    Roger
    

    Yup, right in the TSS plaza next to the Gold Coast Flea Market.
    
    Roger
    

    Thanx for the memories.

    
    
    Has any tried THE BAGEL BAKERY in Sudbury? It is on route 20 on
    the right hand side just down from the 99 heading toward Sudbury
    center. If you look at the last name you know I'm not Jewish but
    I think that these are good. They also have lox and kipered herrings
    and a small deli.
    
    Steve
    

    
    re: .37
    
    Steve,
    	I got some there about a month ago and you are correct - they
    are excellant. A tip: As they use plastic bags have them put any
    garlic bagels in a separate bag or it ends up being the dominant
    flavor of all of them.
    
    David

    The bagel Bakery in Sudbury is mentioned in 5.10, 5.25. and 5.26
    I personally think their bagels are OK, their bialies not so hot
    (my bialy standard being the bakery on Grand Street), their hand
    sliced nova being good, their chive cheese (actually made with
    scallions) OK but a bit too runny, and their service terrible.
    
    They are open the wrong hours (on Saturday they open when they should
    close!).  They exist to serve the ham-and-cheese yuppie crowd, not
    to serve bagels to Jews.
    
    To give you an example of what I mean, When I was there once they
    told the lady in front of me that they were out of their special
    of the day blueberry cream cheese, so she ordered cinammon-walnut
    cream cheese instead.
    
    			In search of a New York Deli,
    
    				Paul
    

    re .33 - .37
    
    Stuff'n Bagels is pretty good.  I should know, I grew about around
    the corner from them.  Their bagels are hand-shaped and
    thus, very large without a hole.  The size and shape caused quite
    a stir in town when they opened about 12-15 years ago.  About 2
    miles down Long Beach Road (into Oceanside) is a place that has
    conventional shaped bagels, but twice the size of normal ones. 
    I forget the name, but it's across the street from Nemo's Army and
    Navy store.            
    
    re. Montreal Bagels
    
    Now, you're talking!  A real delicacy made in 100 year old wood
    burning ovens.  I'll take a dozen white and a dozen black from the
    Montreal Bagel Factory on St. Viateur anyday.
    
    Warren
          

    Pick-A-Chick IS NOT KOSHER

re:< Note 5.41 by FDCV03::CUSNER >
>                                -< Not Kosher >-
>
>    Pick-A-Chick IS NOT KOSHER

    Well, that's a matter of opinion.  Is a store that went out of business
    months ago considered Kosher or not?  They don't sell trefe, but
    they don't sell anything else, either.  Some silly yuppie-chow joint
    has overtaken the spot.
    
    Of course, when they were open, they sold trefe.

Hello Bagel-lovers,
	
        This is Jerusalem calling!

	I was reading through this note but wasn't able to find
        any recommendations about bagel bakeries in Israel.
	I don't want you to think we don't eat the stuff...
	Therefore, if any of you happens to be in the neighborhood -
	I'd like to recommend a small (but very good ) bakery on
	Solomon st. off Zion sq. in the center of Jerusalem.
	I'm sorry I can't give you the name of the place,(I just
	know how to get there) but they bake several kinds of bagels 
	and they serve them hot, with cream cheese and lox and in 
	several other versions, which I don't recall at the moment.

                                 So, 
				     enjoy it...
							
                                                Dror Amitai

    I tasted a bagel from the Avichayil bakery just below the Edison 
    theater in Jerusalem, and it was excellent. This bakery primarily
    makes rolls and some cakes and has entered the bagel scene only
    recently.
    
    Cb.

    re. 43
       
    The place which you are referring to is called New York Bagels.

    IF ANYONE IS IN NY, THE PLACE TO GET BAGELS IS A LITTLE STORE ON
    QUEENS BLVD IN FOREST HILLS CALLED "HOT BAGELS".  IT'S RUN BY A
    LITTLE CHINESE GUY WHO MAKES THE BEST BAGELS IN THE CITY!
    ENJOY!
    JILL
    

    Now don't laugh -- or choke, or do anything else silly, but Lender's
    has a restaurant, actually several, in the New Haven CT area.  i
    believe they are all now called "Ess Kinder" -- that was part of
    the deal they made with Kraft.  I know their frozen supermarket
    bagels are pretty much desperation city (Sara Lee is 100% better,
    believe it or not, and Manachewitz makes a decent one as wlel, when
    you can find it), but when you can get the bagels hot out of the
    oven  they are delicious.  They make a bagel stick, covered with
    poppy seeds and salt, that is a nice change from a 'regular' round
    bagel, and they are now making a challah bagel that hubby tells
    me is very good.  The restaurant serves all of their sandwiches
    on bagels -- tuna melt on a breadstick is delicious.  They also
    have the small, kid-size bagels.  The one I frequent is on Dixwell
    Avenue in Hamden, in the Caldor Shopping Center [exit 60 off the
    Merritt, then left about 1 mile or so, past the high school, or
    exit 10 off I91, two lefts and then a right onto Dixwell, and up
    a few miles].  They are also in West Haven, where the plant is.

    RE: 5.19
    
    When I was living in the Bay Area, through this time last year,
    I bought my bagels at a store in Palo Alto.  Sorry, I don't recall
    the name, but it is two blocks from the railroad station -- one
    block toward S. F., and half a block toward the Bay.  They were
    not quite a chewy as the real NYC thing, but pretty close.
    
    Dan
    

    I work in Palo Alto, but having never had a "real New York" bagel,
    I wasn't going to push my local bagelry. I love 'em. The Bagel Works
    is on Lytton Avenue at Alma in downtown Palo Alto, and right across
    from Digital's System's Research Center (SRC). Bagels, lox, cream
    cheese, bialies, yum yum yum...
    
    I'm just down the street in Stanford Square at 100 Hamilton (UCO). Do
    drop in if you happen to be in town. 
    
    	-- Charles

    
    
    Any bagel sold in Brighton Beach, Brooklyn!
    
    Carole
    

    In the Boston area Kupels is #1.
    
    I grew up in the Riverdale section of the Bronx where you can find
    still yet more of "the best bagels in NY" (and therefore the world).
    This place is called "The Bagel Corner". It is on 235 St. and Johnson
    Avenue (right off the Henry Hudson Pkway). I bring as many Bagels
    as I can fit in my Toyota whenever I'm making the trip back to Waltham
    from the big apple.
    
    I also buy my lox at the Waldbaums on Central Ave. in Yonkers. They
    slice it fresh each day -- sometimes right in front of you. Does
    anyone know where they do this in Boston? All the (Nova) lox around
    here is the stuff that gets packaged and frozen!

re: .51
    
   >                                                              Does
   >  anyone know where they do this in Boston? All the (Nova) lox around
   >  here is the stuff that gets packaged and frozen!

	Haim's Deli at Washington Sq. in Brookline will hand slice Nova
for you and so will Eagerman's Baigels (sic) on Harvard St. (right near
Kupels).  Both places also have machine-sliced lox & nova (which is
considerably cheaper).

					Aaron

    Delitizer in Newton also has hand sliced lox.  It's on Beacon St
    just west of Walnut (Four Corners area, halfway between Newton Centre
    and Newton Highlands.)
    

    Southern California has a few good bagel bakeries too.  In my opinion
    the "Bagel Bakery" is closest to New York style; not too soft and
    not too hard.  They have one within a few miles of the Digital Office
    in Culver City and other locations throughout the Los Angeles area.
    For those who like their bagels heavier, try "I & JOY".  If you
    lean towards the lighter side try Western Bagel in the San Fernando
    Valley.
    
    I wish you all a very Happy and Healthy New Year; La Shona Tova.
    
    
    

    Did I space?  When's Rosh Hashanah?

    re .5
    
    Well Motti, over here in Israel Erev Rosh Hashana is on Sep 23rd,
    but I really haven't got a clue to when it's gonna be in the USA.
    
    Mike
     

    Same time here in the USofA, except later.
    

    re all the replies about the Bagel Bakery in Sudbury on Route 20.
    
    A month ago I searched this file hoping to see a recommendation
    on where I could find belly lox.  I saw the notes on the Bagel Bakery,
    called up, they said they had lots of belly lox.  So I hopped into
    my car and took a 1/2 hour ride.  When I got there they told me
    that someone had just walked in between when I called and when I
    got there and had bought up all the belly lox they had.
    
    So first I want to know, which one of you bought all of *MY* belly
    lox?!?!?
    
    Anyways, the craving hit again yesterday and I called up and reserved
    my lox this time.  $22/lb for belly lox!!  The highest I've ever
    seen is $14 down in Baltimore.  But it was worth the money, the
    lox was hand carved into thick slices, salty but not too oily. 
    I picked up some bagels while I was there (fancy that!) but was
    dissapointed.  The onion on the onion bagels was only on one
    side, so if you eat your bagels in halves like I do, you get too
    much onion or no onion at all.  They also were too much like regular
    rolls, they weren't 'chewy' like bagels should be.
    
    The search for belly lox in Worcester continues...
    
    Sharon
    

    The Sudbury Farms supermarket in Sudbury has a deli counter. The last
    time I was there, they had sliced lox for ~$12/lb, and lox bits for
    ~$5/lb. This is considerably cheaper than the $20-$28/lb you'd pay at
    the Bagel Bakery in Sudbury. There may be some quality difference, but
    the pound of lox bits I got (for 9 people) was just fine. Now I buy the
    bagels at the Bagel Bakery, and the cream cheese and lox at Sudbury
    Farms. 
    
    Sudbury Farms is also on the south side of route 20, in the 1776
    Plaza (?not sure?) shopping center. This is a relatively short distance
    east of the Bagel Bakery.
    
    --Dan

    
    Rosenfeld, in the basement of the Picadelly (sp?) Circus building
    in Newton Center makes bagels that competes with Ziggy's and Kupels.
    The thing that they have over Ziggy's is that you can say - 'I'll
    take what is still hot'.
                            
    garrett

    Rosenfeld's sesame bagels (a favourite of mine) have a dough that is
    far too salty, and they're too skimpy with their sesame seeds.
    
    If anybody knows the whereabouts of the ex-bagelmaker at the (now)
    ex-Jaffe's in Coolidge Corner, I'd almost be willing to pay a reward.
    He made bagels that are at least as good as H&H in N.Y.C.
    
    David

       For those of us in the Fresser's Sahara known as Nashua/Merrimack,
       an oasis has appeared.  Freedman's Bakery, the same one that's in
       Coolidge Corner, has opened in the Harris Pond Shopping Center, on
       old Rt 3 just north of the Nashua/Merrimack line. 
       
       Their breads are delicious -- heavy-textured and lots of flavor
       -- and they've got light and dark corn and rye breads, a terrific
       whole wheat, challah, and a few others.  Their bagels aren't
       as good as the best of New York, but they put Bagel Alley to
       shame.  And they sell decent shmear for the bagels.
       
       Now if only Ruben's (or Mavens?) could only open a place up here
       so we could get some decent corned beef, brisket, and pastrami.
       
       --Mr Topaz

          -< Just some ramblings on BAGELS >-
    For those who care, the best BAGELS I remember were from a place
    that noone ever knew the name of. We just called it the BAGEL place.
    It was on McDonald Ave just off Church(in BROOKLYN if you didn't
    know), next to the sleeziest pizza place you'd ever want to go into.
    It was my duty and honor to perform the weekly(sometimes more often)
    ritual of getting the Sunday paper and the BAGELS at around midnight
    on Saturday.
    
    I have never found any better but I have found some pretty good
    ones in Chicago and even in Miami(?why anyone lives there?). However,
    as I live in Dallas now there are 2 acceptable places here.
    Bagelstein's and the Bagel Emporium. They both have a large variety
    and do Bagelstein's does a land office business on Sunday mornings,
    even though the Emporium is better. In addition you can get other
    delicacies at these establishments: Fox's U-Bet, Dr. Brown's Black
    Cherry and for the philistine's amongst you Dr. Brown's Cream is
    available also as well as others.

    As a close does anyone out there remember a place in the Village
    called the Hip BAGEL. It was open in the 1969-1971 time frame. It
    was great. Everything was served on the absolute biggest BAGELS
    I remember seeing. I once had a steak served on one and the BAGEL
    was not fully covered. The BAGELS were not the best but they were
    the most unusual.
    
    Regards,
    
    Schmual (Steve for the gentiles who also love BAGELS)
    

    
    Anybody know of any good bagel places (or ANY bagel places, for
    that matter) in the West Boylston/Sterling MA area??
    
    Lance Kann

    The best place to get bagels south of Boston is in Randolph at Zeppy's
    Bakery.  It's 20 miles south of Boston on Main Street in Randolph.
    I grew up having them almost every Sunday morning.
    
    They do a huge business, so you might see their bagels being sold
    in local deli's.  Everytime I go home, I stock up for my freezer.
    
    Gail_who_misses_fresh_bagels

    	The best bagels I've had can be found at the Bagel Factory
    	here in Burlington, Vermont.
    
    
    	Peggy

    I'm a new reader to this notes file and I'm glad to see a plug for
    Montreal bagels. The St. Viateur store was even the subject of a book
    "Saturday Night at the Bagel Factory". My understanding of the
    difference to the New York-style bagel is that Montreal bagels are dipped
    in honeyed water before baking. This gives them that delicious crispness.
    BTW, there are only two REAL bagels - white (sesame seed) and black
    (poppy seed).
     
    Stephen,
    Ottawa, Canada 

    re: Montreal bagels
    
    I agree that Montreal bagels are delicious, and yes they do have a
    certain sweetness.  They seemed lighter than "average" bagels.  This
    may be attractive but bagels were purposely produced doughy because
    they were meant to fill you up because you could only look forward to
    eating a potato for lunch in places like Eastern Europe.
    
    --David 

    For anyone forced to visit the land of sunshine, junk food and nouvelle
    cuisine in the near future (i.e., Orange County, CA -- the Irvine or
    Costa Mesa offices) or newly moved to this area from more civilized
    parts of the world...
    
    There are very few decent bagels (or much else) to be had out here, 
    but one place is in Costa Mesa, on Bristol Street.  It is about half-way 
    between the IVO and CWO offices, called Arnie's Manhattan Delicatessan.  
    Arnie owns the place, really is from Manhattan, and his mother still bakes 
    batches and batches of those marvelous cookies our bubbe's made us 
    long ago...those cookies go early, though, so beware!  There are rarely
    lines or long waits at Arnie's, which is nice.
    
    The bagels at Arnie's are very good, large, solid and very chewy, with
    a not-too-crispy outside, a real Northeastern US bagel (she said
    politely, so as not to offend anyone, anywhere in NY, MA, NJ, etc.) 
    
    Arnie's is *not* strictly kosher -- they are open seven days,
    no rabbinical supervision that I know of; but, the food is solidly 
    Jewish, and the kosher-style dishes are all there, right down to 
    the fresh pickle jar on your table.  
    
    Another good bagel source is the Katella Deli on Katella Avenue 
    in Los Alamitos (halfway between Orange Cty. and L.A.) -- also not 
    real kosher, but the bagels are very crisp on the outside, chewy middles,
    and not too sweet.  (sweet bagels seem to be a Calif. invention...)
    The rest of the baked goods (pastry, cakes, cookies, etc.) are out 
    of this world, and the latkes are mouth-watering.
    
    Marla
                         

    So ya want a good bagel?
    The only place outside of New York for a bagel is Chicago.
    On the Northwest side, actually in Lincolnwood, is a bakery called 'The
    New Yorker.' They're open all the time. They make THE best bagels (egg,
    onion, garlic, salt, raisin-cinnamon, plain, etc ) and a chalah and
    raisin bread to die over. There's nothing like that around here.