Conference rusure::nintendo

    
    Paul,
    
    Could you give a description of Wizardry.  I've seen it in the stores,
    but I couldn't get a feel for what it's like.  Thanks,
    
    
    			---krak
    

    A quick reply...
    
    I haven't played this on Nintendo but I have on a PC compatible.
    
    Basically, you run a group of six characters through a Dungeons and
    Dragons style maze, fighting the monsters you come across, picking up
    treasure, and through a mix of characters types overcoming forminable
    enemies and situation through party teamwork.
    
    It seemed as if the NES version of the games has better graphics but
    the game was the same with a few exceptions: Spells aren't entered
    through a keyboard but through point and select.
    
    For those of you interested in cheating about 5 years ago I remember
    seeing help books for the PC version. I don't know if the game is
    exactly the same or not but the similarities appeared remarkable.
    
    Rich

    That sounds about right.  I have played it on Nintendo and the graphics
    are acceptable.  I like the ability of characters to raise their class
    to LORD, SAMARAI or NINJA.  Actually, I've been able to start out with
    a Samarai (sp) by rolling a char. with a lot of bonus pts.  What I
    would like to know is: are some characters affected by the armor and
    weapons they are equipped with?  For example, a samarai using body
    armor as opposed to something that suits that class better.
    
    It's a good game - true to DND but a lot of hack&slash to get through
    the levels.
    
    Paul

    This game is on my Christmas list.  Anyone out there still
    playing this, and/or willing to share a little more info
    on the game?  Is it challenging?
    
    Joel
    

    Is anyone - quick, before this conference shuts down! -
    still playing this game?
    
    I got it yesterday and it seems pretty challenging.  It is
    clear that you must create and choose your party members
    very carefully.  And mapping, something I loathe doing,
    looks like pretty much of a necessity.
    
    Does anyone know the use of some of the more expensive items
    at the Trading Post?  The instruction booklet isn't very
    clear.
    
    Joel
    

    I spent alot of time playing this game over the four-day
    weekend.  Though I have managed to raise my party's levels
    and have raised two of them in class (from Fighter to Samurai
    and from Mage to Wizard) I still have not gotten very far
    in the maze.
    
    The monsters in this game are multitudinous and formidable.
    It is possible, with close to 100% certainty, to run from
    any monsters you meet.  Unless they "surprise" you, in
    which case you may stand there and watch as your hit points
    are systematically stripped.  I recommend you do not go below
    level 2 in the maze until all your characters are at least at
    level ten.
    
    Anyway, this game consists entirely of going through a 
    20 by 20 (grid) 10-level maze/dungeon.  The point of view
    is from the lead character's eyes.  (if you have played
    Ultima, you will remember the way the dungeons looked in
    that game - this is how this game looks)
    
    Unlike Ultima, you cannot trust your sense of direction when
    you are in the maze.  There are doors which seem to warp
    you to other parts of the level you are on.  And the only
    way to tell is to repeatedly use a directional magic and
    note the warp doors on your maps.  Other doors are one-way.
    You can't go back through them.  So don't be to cocky when
    you feel pretty certain you can find your way back after
    having obtained an item.
    
    Finally, you can save from session to session, but if one
    or more or all of your characters die, the reset button
    will not help.  So, as I say, be very careful with this
    one.  Run from monsters while you explore and get a 
    pretty large piece of paper to map.
    
    I've found a terrific monster-whacking place on the
    first level of the maze.  Lots of quick experience points
    and plenty of cash.  [spoiler follows]
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    From the initial place of descent go north, then east through
    the far door.  One step north, then east through the far door.
    (sometimes it looks like a solid wall)  After going through
    the door take a few steps and you'll be at a wall.  Turn
    around and you'll see a bank of three doors.  Go into the
    door on the right and kill the monster.  It will be Murphey's
    Ghost, directly, or disguised as an "unseen" entity.  After
    killing the monster, hit the select button, search, and 
    go through the screen that has the writing on it.  (you can
    do it in about two seconds with practice)  You'll get one
    ghost/unseen entity every single time - though if your party
    has a good/neutral orientation you'll have to "leave" the
    friendly ghosts you meet.  
    
    The ghost gives you 741 experience points and 30-50 pieces
    of gold per survivor.  It takes a while to kill him.  But
    he isnt' very tough if you're at level 8 or so.  Misses
    about 2/3 of the time and never takes more than 2 hit points.
    You can get about 50,000 experience points in an hour, which
    beats the heck out of looking for skeletons, orcs, and kobolds
    in the little rooms.
    
    Joel
    

    Doesn't seem like anyone else is playing this game, but I'll
    put in a few tips now and again for future players.
    
    I have discovered something extremely important, a discovery
    that has allowed me to progress at a much, much faster rate.
    There is in fact a way to use the reset button to save
    characters.
    
    The trick: if you die in battle and hit the reset button
    you'll still be dead anyway.  Many, many hours down the
    proverbial tubes.  So what you have to do is hit the reset
    button _before_ the battle is over.  The game apparently
    does not save before the battle ends.  If you get a
    "level drain" or see that one of your guys has been
    decapitated, don't wait!  Hit the reset button!  And you
    will return to the last time you camped.
    
    Which also means that when you're wandering around the
    depths of the dungeon, camp frequently, even if only
    to inspect one of your guys.
    
    Joel
    

 With Paul's permission, I herewith post an e-mail he sent
me about character creation.  Great advice!

Joel




I rented this game originally and haven't had the time to get back to it much.
Sounds like you're doing great!!  I think the idea of an elevator is a great 
idea (allows you to quickly build up your characters).  The last thing I found 
was the Monster Allocation Room and I got wiped.  I'll try it again some time.

I spent some time doing character rolls and I found out that you can get as 
much as 25 bonus pts (happened with a hobbit).  If you reroll until you get 
at least 18 or 19, you can start out with a Samarai and a Wizard.  What I found
great was starting these high bonus characters as dwarf or gnome clerics who
can still handle fighting pretty good but also learn all the good cleric stuff.
If you distribute the bonus pts so that the cleric can turn to a samarai at any
time if gives you great flexibility.

My cast was:

Human Fighter (being prepared with bonus pts as hopefully a Lord)
Dwarf Samarai
Dwarf Cleric (being prepared with bonus pts as a Samarai)
Gnome Cleric (straight cleric)
Hobbit Thief
Elf Mage (being prepared with bonus pts as a Wizard)

This worked very well in the limited time I had the rental - I may purchase this
game yet!  I was able to turn the dwarf cleric (who fights very well as he is) 
into a Samarai that knew Cleric spells and would also learn the regular Samarai
Mage spells.  When I switched him, I converted my elf mage (mage learns mage 
spells quicker than wizard does) to a wizard.  So I had three characters who 
could do some level of mage spells and three characters who could do some level
of cleric spells!!

I've got to try this again,

Paul

    This is only an opinion so I'm not going to hide it behind
    a spoiler.
    
    My opinion: completely avoid the 8th floor.  There is a great
    shield you can get there, but the risks overweight the benefits
    by a wide margin.  The 8th floor has a "silence" area where
    magic doesn't work.  You can't heal your characters, you can't
    use magic to wipe the monsters, and worst of all, you can't
    use magic to find out your location.
    
    You get there through a sudden teleport zone.  Without warning, you
    are suddenly wisked into the middle of the silent zone.  There
    is only one way out and it involves a secret door.  You cannot
    see the door unless you use the "lomwila" magic and - you
    know already - the magic doesn't work in this area.  So I spent
    three hours last night running from monsters (doesn't work when
    they surprise you) and trying every wall for a secret door.
    Finally found it and limped back to the castle with two dead
    characters (fortunately able to revive them) and the other
    four doing pretty poorly.
    
    So, as I say, stay away from the 8th floor!
    
    Joel
    

    I have finally broken the code on this game.  I have much
    yet to do but now know what to do.
    
    Following are opinions and spoilers on how to deal with 
    this game.  Please note that if you do as I suggest, it isn't
    as fun or exciting.  But it will get the job done, initially,
    and give you the strength to do the fun things like mapping
    and exploring without having to constantly worry about the
    dreaded: "monsters surprised you" warning followed by the
    systematic wiping out of your entire party.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    [spoilers follow]
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Refer to previous notes about character creation.  I would
    add that you definitely need a Wizard, because Wizards
    identify items you find in the dungeon.  This allows you to
    use or discard things immediately, and obviates the need
    for massive amounts of cash, as Boltac the Trader charges
    big bucks to identify items.
    
    You can create a Wizard right away, but I recommend you
    do a character change.  A Wizard must be either a good or
    evil character, so first create a good or evil mage.  When
    the mage has learned all the mage spells (by level 13 or
    14) turn him into a Wizard.  The Wizard will start to learn
    cleric spells now, which is good, but more importantly will
    identify your items.  
    
    1. Create characters.  Create many characters and steal their
    gold.  But the best armor and weapons you can at Boltac's.
    2. Go down to the first level and turn right.  A few steps down
    is a door - go in and beat the monsters.  If you still have 
    hit points left, walk around in the room a few times and
    beat a few more monsters.  If possible, use heal spells to
    restore hit points.  Staying at the Adventurer's Inn not only
    costs money, but it ages you.  If you have all your hit points
    and stay for free, your character will age only one day.
    3. There are also little monster-bashing rooms going north
    and then east.
    4. When you get to about level four or five with your characters,
    start bashing Murphey's ghost. (see previous note on how to
    get to Murphey)  Getting back from Murphey: leave Murphy's
    closet and walk towards the wall.  Turn right.  You will
    see two doors.  Take the left door.  There is another door,
    immediately to your left - take it.  Go down the passageway
    to the dark zone.  Go right and straight until you bump into
    the door.  Go through the door and turn left, one step, and
    right to another door.  When you go in you will be teleported
    to the castle.
    5. Keep bashing poor Murphy until you have turned your mage into
    a Wizard.  This will take a long time.  But getting experience
    levels up by exploring the dungeon takes about 5-7 times
    as long.  Make your choice.
    6. At this point, you are ready for the Monster Allocation Center.
    To get there: follow above instuctions to/from Murphy's ghost,
    up to the dark zone.  When you bump into the door, go right
    rather than left.  It's about 8 steps up to an elevator with
    A,B,C,D marked.  These represent floors 1-4.  Go to floor 4,
    and straight ahead until you reach the "alarm" sign.
    7. Go right.  You will immediately hit a tough group of monsters,
    so I recommend camping as soon as you leave the elevator.
    8. Beat these guys and go into the Monster Allocation Center.
    There's a sign.
    9. The group you meet there is very tough: Ninja, two level 8
    fighters, two high-level mages, two high-level clerics.  You
    beat them by using Tiltowait magic.  Put your toughest fighter
    on the Ninja (who will cut off someone's head if you are unlucky)
    and put all magic users except your mage to the task of silencing,
    holding, or putting to sleep the clerics and mages.  The Level 8
    fighters probably won't hurt you very much.
    10. The chest they leave contains a neutralizing potion, a Ring
    of Death, and a fire rod.  The potion is nice to have - I try
    to keep one with each character.  Immediately drop the ring,
    it is cursed and will do nothing but take 3 hit points per step
    from anyone who carries it.  The fire rod casts a Mahalito spell
    when used in battle.  I always have my thief armed with at
    least three.  (they can only be used a few times before the
    break)
    11. You will notice two doors, one on the left, and one ahead
    and right.  Ignore the door on the left and go through the
    door ahead and right.  Beat the monsters there and you will
    get the blue ribbon.  (your Wizard will identify it for you)
    You are now ready to go to the 10th floor and get good
    items and, ultimately, start beating Werdna.
    12. From the fourth floor elevator, go down rather than up
    and you will soon get to another elevator that takes you
    to floors 5-9.  Take the elevator to floor 9.  Turn around
    and go through the door.
    13. Go through the door on the left.  Always monsters there,
    tough, but beatable, and they generally give you good items.
    14. After beating them, go either right and left or straight
    and right.  There's an invisible chute which will whisk you
    down to number 10.
    
    A later note will explain #10, which is dangerous in the 
    extreme, but offers easy ways to teleport back to the
    castle when things get rough.  And this is where you get
    by far the best items.
    
    Joel
    

    Another tip, for historical purposes: do NOT create a Ninja!
    
    There is an item called the Dagger of Thieves which allows you
    to turn your thief into a Ninja without losing experience
    points and levels.  This is good - I turned my level 30 Thief
    into a Ninja.
    
    But the Ninja needs 5,500,000 experience points to go up
    another level!  Compare this to 275,000 for a fighter or
    450,000 for a Samurai.  Not worth it.  My Ninja is a rough
    guy and all that, but not necessarily rougher than a fighter
    at a level or three higher.
    
    Bah!
    
    Joel
    

    Jo and co.,
    
    I seem to be doing something wrong with my samarai.  They only get very
    modest hit point increases even though in the manual they are listed as
    second only to the fighter (usually) in hit points.  I was up to about
    level 12 (somewhere around there anyway) and my mage, cleric and thief
    had more hit points.  Is  this maybe an armor thing like the black belt
    in the Final Fantasy or something?
    
    Paul.

    re: .13
    
    Good question.
    
    High hit point characters will ultimately garner high hit points,
    but along the way there may be some dislocations.  Generally,
    Samurai need more experience points to gain a level than
    do mages, clerics, or thieves - so perhaps these characters are
    at higher levels.
    
    Mage, cleric, wizard, and thief are fairly effective at their
    jobs even at fairly low character levels.  But ninja, samurai,
    and fighters aren't too hot until you get up in the upper-20's.
    I have a fighter that is now at level 50 and he kills everyone
    but Werdna in one blow!  Ditto with my ninja, who is a level
    31.  My samurai, who is now at level 27 (I've been mixing and
    matching different characters to raise their levels) is pretty
    tough, but won't kill the big guys in a single blow.  But he
    has all the mage spells now, including four doses of tiltowait,
    so he is quite formidable.
    
    My suggestion would be to either invest a lot of time whacking
    Murphy's ghost, or (with care!) go down to the 10th floor
    and get some good treasures and mucho experience points.  But
    don't look for any terrific things from your Samurai until
    about level 20 at least.
    
    For my next attack on Werdna, I'm going to use my evil fighter,
    my ninja, my neutral samurai, my evil wizard, my mage, and my thief.
    Thief is now up to 140 or so hit points.  Fighter is at 440!
    Samurai at 199.
    
    You need every character to have a bare-bones minimum of 80 hit
    points to make it all the way through the 10th floor.  But there
    are easy warps back to the castle at almost every turn...
    
    
    Joel
    

    
    To find the 10th floor:
    
    
    
    
    
    [spoiler]
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Take the elevator to the ninth floor.  Leave the one-square
    box you'll find yourself in.  You'll see a door on your
    left.  Go through that door.  After beating the monsters
    behind the door, either walk forward and then right, or
    right and then left.  You can't "see" it, but there is a
    chute.  You'll slide down into #10.
    
    When you land on floor 10, you'll get a screen message,
    boasting from Werdna.  To your immediate right is a 
    recess in the wall.  If you go into that recess, you
    will teleport back to the castle.  
    
    Floor 10 consists of seven discrete passageways which end
    in doors.  Behind each door is a monster of monsters, as well
    as a little room.  In each room (except the last, which
    has Werdna) if you walk to your right one step you will
    be teleported back to the place you land when you slide down
    the 9th to 10th floor chute.  From there, (as mentioned) go
    right one step to get back to the castle.  Thus, while the
    10th floor is very tough, you can always get back to the
    castle pretty easily.
    
    To get from one passageway to the next, you have to walk around
    the rooms until you hit the teleport square which takes you
    to the beginning of the next passageway.  I recommend turning
    on the lomilwa magic the first few times down there, as it
    is in some respects, quite "revealing."
    
    If you accidentally get the "Werdna is in" sign and you don't
    feel ready to fight him (he comes with Vampire Lord and 1-8
    vampires who drain your levels and slash you) you can only
    get out with the Malor spell.
    
    Best bet: select `up' nine levels, 'south' one level.  You'll
    wind up on the first level, just past where you whack
    Murphy's ghost.
    
    A later note will deal with how you can repeatedly smash Wernda
    with the same party!
    
    Joel
    

    
    One of best things about Wizardry is the fact that you can
    keep on playing after you pulverize Werdna, the main monster.
    However, unless you do a little trick, you can only beat 
    Werdna once with the same party.  This is due to the fact
    that when you beat him you get an amulet and as soon as you
    take the amulet back to the castle, the amulet-bearer and
    everyone else in the party gets the Mark of Chevron.  Thereafter,
    when you get to Werdna's little playhouse, Werdna is gone.
    
    But there is a way around this:
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    [spoiler]
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Here's what you do.  After you humiliate and crush Werdna,
    use Mador to go up to the first floor.  Walk your guys
    over to the stairs and use the `quit' option.  You'll
    immediately get the castle/menu choices.  Select any old
    character and bring him down the stairs.  Do a search and
    select the amulet bearer.  Have the amulet bearer hand the
    amulet over to the lone character, walk them up a
    couple of spaces, and quit.  Then, at the castle/menu option,
    select "restart an out party."  Restart the party (there are
    now only five of them) who beat Werna and walk over to
    where you dropped off your former amulet bearer.
    
    You now have your Werdna-whacking party intact and can
    go back to the Adventurer's Inn to heal and register
    your experience points.
    
    In the meantime, the guy with the amulet is down there
    waiting patiently.  If you bring him back he'll get
    50,000 experience points and 50,000 GP.  Not bad!  But
    the amulet will be gone.  You can leave him there, whack
    Werdna again, give him the second amulet and _then_ take
    him to the castle.  Only one of the amulets will be gone,
    and you can sell the remaining one to Boltac for 49,999,999 GP.
    
    Or, you can keep the guy down there as an amulet storage
    center and pass them out to party members.  When equipped,
    the amulet protects you from paralysis, petrification,
    poisoning, etc., and gives you 5 hp for every step you
    take.  But it also reduces your AC rating and it is cursed;
    you can't take it off.  And if you ever go back to the
    castle the amulet will disappear.  
    
    BTW - unequipped it still gives you the 5 HP per step,
    so I recommend selling one, and thereafter using a character
    as an in-maze amulet storage center, trading back and forth
    with departing characters.
    
    I think this about covers this game...
    
    Joel
    

    If you really adored Wizardry and Zelda what are other similar games
    that are GOOD and challenging?

    I liked wizardry TWO. Having trouble getting past the fourth level
    though, Any hints.
    
    					Steve