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Conference rusure::math

Title:Mathematics at DEC
Moderator:RUSURE::EDP
Created:Mon Feb 03 1986
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2083
Total number of notes:14613

940.0. "Assume no conduction or radiation" by HERON::BUCHANAN (and the world it runnes on wheeles) Wed Oct 05 1988 08:59

	Can anyone identify a simple situation where the more HOT WATER
one empties into a VESSEL, the colder the water becomes?

	Can anyone stunningly intuit the domestic activity I was engaged
in that caused me to observe this strange phenomenon?

Andrew
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940.1:-() AAARRRGGGHHHH!!! That's cold!LISP::DERAMODaniel V. {AITG,LISP,ZFC}:: D'EramoWed Oct 05 1988 12:144
     When I take a long shower, it's a race as to who will
     finish first, me or the hot water.
     
     Dan
940.2HERON::BUCHANANand the world it runnes on wheelesWed Oct 05 1988 13:507
>     When I take a long shower, it's a race as to who will
>     finish first, me or the hot water.

	Neat idea, Dan, but that's not the one I was thinking about.
Assume that we have an arbitrarily large supply of hot water.

Andrew
940.3Source of much bad coffee from the well meaning.ERLTC::COOPERTopher CooperWed Oct 05 1988 14:427
    I don't know what you had in mind, but one such case is with the
    standard "office" coffee makers.  They keep a resevoir of hot
    water and depend on the water being cold -- hence denser -- to
    displace the hot water.  The warmer the water you poor in the
    more they mix and the cooler the water which comes out.
    
    					Topher
940.4Heat of solution maybe?HIBOB::SIMMONSWed Oct 05 1988 14:5712
    There are some salts which will cool water when dissolved - Calcium
    chloride and bromide do this in a big way.  Calcium bromide has
    been used in absorbtion refigeration where what you talk about is
    done.  For more data on this phenomenum, look under heat of solution
    in a chemistry book where you will see that water may be either
    warmed or cooled in this way depending on whether the heat of solution
    is positive or negative.
    
    So what were you doing?
    
    Chuck
    
940.5It's gotta be Alchohol!MCIS2::FRIEDMANA missed plane is a missed planeWed Oct 05 1988 19:3811
RE: < Note 940.0 by HERON::BUCHANAN "and the world it runnes on wheeles" >

    You want to add energy and decrease temperature??  Sounds like you
    were drinking alchoholic beverages with ice!!
    
    Suppose hot water increases the salinity in the drink, more ice
    will melt then lower the temperature of the water.
    
    Pretty thin explanation...
    
    James.
940.6Cool brewAKQJ10::YARBROUGHI prefer PiThu Oct 06 1988 18:147
>	Can anyone stunningly intuit the domestic activity I was engaged
>in that caused me to observe this strange phenomenon?

Maybe you were making iced coffee? The 'vessel' might be the top of an ice 
cube...

Lynn Yarbrough 
940.7HERON::BUCHANANand the world it runnes on wheelesThu Oct 06 1988 18:4410
	Suppose I've got a basin full of cool water, and I want to replace this
with hot water.   I can pull the plug out, all the water runs out, then replace
the plug and turn the hot tap on.

	But suppose that I turn the hot tap on earlier, when I pull the plug
out.  Then I never reach a stage where all the cool water is gone.   It just
mixes with the hot water.   So when I put the plug back in, the temperature is
always going to be lower than if I'd waited before turning the hot tap on.

Andrew
940.8Don't understandHIBOB::SIMMONSThu Oct 06 1988 20:374
    I have trouble with the semantics.  I don't see any relation between
    the words in .0 and the words in .7.
    
    Chuck (puzzled)
940.9HERON::BUCHANANand the world it runnes on wheelesThu Oct 06 1988 21:5413
	Sorry, let me try another tack.

	In the mornings, I'm often in a hurry.   I wondered if I could speed up 
the time between finishing washing my face (= start situation, sink full of 
cool water) and begining shaving (= end position, sink full of nice hot water
for shaving with).

	The variables under my control are: plug in or out, hot tap on or off.
All I'm trying to demonstrate is that if I switch on the hot tap before the
sink has drained, ie. have MORE hot water flowing into the sink than otherwise,
then the water ends up COOLER.

Andrew
940.10OhHIBOB::SIMMONSFri Oct 07 1988 13:122
    
    
940.11SHAPES::CLINCHSSimon @UCG, DTN 7781-4188Tue Oct 25 1988 17:177
    re .9
    
    I don't understand how you can make the assumption that there must
    be no conduction or radiation - I would have thought that these
    were the essence of the problem.
    
    -Simon.