Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    I'm with you Alfred ... Valentine's day means zip to me but it sure
    meant a lot more to the wife ... like the year I bought her a $6,000
    piano for Christmas and I totally forgot Valentine's day ... you'd have
    thought I was the most evil person on earth .. absolutely no emotion,
    no feelings, "...is the love is gone from our marriage" syndrome. All
    day the 14th and the 15th of February was miserable ...

    Well, from there on out, I made sure that my secretary sent flowers
    every Valentine's day ... on her birthday ... on mothers day ...
    and it kept the home fires quiet ...  
    
    Jerry

    I notice that both the previous notes were variations on "I paid for
    this expensive item and then she was mad when I forgot Valentine's
    Day." I think this is key to male/female psychology: to generalize and
    grossly over-simplify, we (men) are providers and they (women) are
    carers. I was once dumped by a woman because I'd forgotten her
    birthday. At the time I was bewildered, but now I believe it's
    characteristic. As Professor Higgins queried Colonel Pickering:
    
        "Would you be offended if I didn't send you flowers?"
        "Never!"
        "Why can a woman... be like US?"
    
    Needless to say, my wife received the *pricier* of the two long-stemmed
    roses options this morning, and her sweet voice over the telephone was
    well worth the investment (my view), because it showed that I *do* care
    (her / our view).
    
    - Hoyt

    Well guys, as the old saying goes.......it's the thought that counts.
    This is a perfect example of what I've been told by a friend.....
    "Men think logically and women think emotionally".....so it's the
    little things (like remembering Valentines Day) that make the
    difference.  Really, what does it take to get a .75 card that just
    reminders *her* that your thinking about *her* on Valentines Day.
    
    Just my .02,
    
    -Lynn
    

    
    re ;-1
    
    	Try and find a card for .75 cents!
    
    
    bonnie

    The war is lost on this one.  Hallmark and Madison Avenue
    have have won the hearts and minds of most American women
    on this Valentine's Day thing.  I had to fight a throng
    of procrastinating men at the card counter to buy my
    morning paper.
    
    Imagine forgeting to send a card on Mother's Day.
    
    LArry

    I agree with .3. Its not buying her something expensive, its the
    thought that we all want. My SO gave me a beautiful heart-shaped box of
    Godiva truffles and had long-stemmed red roses sent to the office. He
    says this is the last VD he's going to celebrate because he feels like
    VD is just a Madison Ave./Hallmark-hyped, fake holiday. To me, its
    number three adter my birthday and Christmas. I don't need a lot of
    fancy stuff, but if I didn't get at least a card, I would be very
    disappointed. What I did, to keep the peace at home, was let him know
    that VD was important to me. So I gave him fair warning. If women don't
    let the men know its important, then the men shouldn't be blamed for
    skipping the holiday. 
    
    Its just another of those quirky, wonderful differences between men and
    women.
    
    Deb
    

 Long ago I realized that the neverending annoyance of having to remember
each and every one of the hallmark holidays was a simple fact of life that
had to be endured when dealing with the female of the species. It started
with my mother. She would be furious if we forgot about mother's day or
her birthday or her anniversary etc. My dad couldn't care less, but to my mom,
it's very important. And it's been that way with every woman I've known. So
you learn to accept it. It's the rice you pay for one less contributor to
family problems...

 The Doctah

    I can get into Valentine's day.  But I think "Sweetness Day" is going
    just a little bit too far.
    
    -- Mike

>    "Men think logically and women think emotionally".....

I would say, in general...
	
	Men overlay logic on top of their emotions, women overlay
	emotion on top of their logic.

Just my two cents worth.

						--Gerry

    Things to Wonder About today:
    
    Will Hallmark ever market same-sex Valentine Day cards?
    
    Just wonderin' ...
    
    LArry

    .10> Will Hallmark ever market same-sex Valentine Day cards?

    No way.  They are the epitome of the traditional motherhood and apple
    pie American family ... with the associated publicity that they'd get,
    their reputation would go down the tubes ...  all that for an extremely
    small segment of the marketplace?  No, Larry, not hardly.  They'd have
    everything to lose and very little to gain.

    Jerry

    
    Seems that you are still on the commercial kick - how much does
    something cost, and whether or not Hallmark makes money on a holiday,
    etc... is not the point.  My hubby kissed me this a.m. and said "happy
    Valentine's day".  No card necessary.  Not even a 75 cent one.
    I feel sorry for folks who  just cannot remember to say they care.
    
    If this is illogical, try thinking about it this way - how would you
    feel if your boss "forgot" your salary review?   They only thing you
    "pay" your significant other with is the symbols of caring, and it
    doesn't matter if it's male caring or female caring.  try it, you'll
    like it!
    
    -m

    I don't buy cards, but any excuse for a romantic dinner, an evening
    alone-just-us-two, and extra hours of imaginative effort put into
    bunny-imitations is an excuse to be seized. 
    
    Ray

       I could care less about valentines day and almost all the rest
    of the "Hallmark" days.
    
       I don't want a lot of hubbub on my B-day either.  Who *really* wants
    to be reminded that they're getting older?
    
       I like X-mas for purely commercial reasons.
    
       I like Halloween for purely sucrose reasons.
    
       The rest can all go to Acheron in a handbasket!
    
    
                                      L.J.

    V-day has been more important in my family, I guess.  Maybe it's
    because it is my parent anniversary (50 this year).  
    
    Also, since I think with my emotions I would really like flowers from
    my SO, but I've given up.  I bought him some yesterday, so at least I
    have them in the house to enjoy for me.
    
    Meg

    Flowers never made any sense to me, but maybe they're not supposed
    to......and they seem to have this powerful effect on women! 
    
    %^).
    
    A romantic gesture is never wasted at any time of the year, in
    my experience. Too bad I ain't got nobody to waste it on this year!
    
    -roger
    

    re:  .10
    
    It seems to me you could give any of the "Sweet Heart, Honey, Darling"
    kinds of Halmark cards to a lover of the same sex.  But, if it happens
    to be a married couple of the same sex it could become confusing.
    
    Even though I enjoy doing things for others on VD I really don't much
    care for others making a fuss for me, a card and four hours of non-stop
    bed spring bouncing is just fine.
    
         -- When you care enough to give your very best.  Trojan
    
    Kel
    

    One red rose from a stranger made my day...somebody out there
    obvo=iously likes me !

    Is it just me, or does anyone else see the irony of talking about
    Valentine's Day as "VD"?
    
    (*8
    
    E Grace

    me too E!
    
    ;-)

    Y'know... I think we have to dig a little deeper than the simple
    male/female dichotomy when we think about these things......
    
    I don't know why, but some people are big into OCCASIONS and others
    aren't.  My whole family (except me) is the former type; always
    sending (and expecting) cards, always celebrating in the Hallmark-
    approved ways on the Hallmark-approved days, etc.  It used to 
    bother them that I almost never sent cards, but now they're used
    to it.  It's just not my style.  And on those rare occasions when
    I AM moved to send a card or a note, it makes it that much more
    meaningful 8-)
    
    I'm not a callous person; far from it!  Rather, I've come to the
    conclusion that I'd rather celebrate certain things when *I* feel
    like it rather than when society *TELLS* me to.  So if I feel like
    having mincemeat pie in July, I'll MAKE a mincemeat pie in July!
    If I feel like listening to Handel's Messiah in February, I'll put
    it on.
    
    I guess I've been TRULY fortunate in that I married a woman who is
    every bit as impatient with "mandated" celebrations as I am.  It
    doesn't bother her that I don't remember Valentine's day... because
    she doesn't remember either 8-)  It's also not very important to us;
    we remind ourselves of our love for each other 365 days a year.  No
    need to set aside a SPECIAL day for appreciation!
    
    To go further down the rathole; to me, one nasty side effect of
    setting aside special holidays for "appreciation" is that it encourages
    us to think of doing the appreciating only on that day.  So f'rinstance
    Dad gets remembered for being a good father on Father's Day, and taken 
    for granted as usual the other 364... same for mothers on Mother's Day,
    lovers on Valentine's Day, spouses on their anniversary, etc.....
    
    So getting back to the topic of the basenote; I think that when a
    disagreement comes up as to the importance of a particular holiday,
    I think there are several different issues involved.  Typically,
    women are socialized to be caring and emotional, while men are
    socialized to be practical and logical.  When we look for our
    "special someone" we look both for qualities we have AND qualities
    we DON'T have.  So he looks for someone who's both caring AND
    practical... and she looks for someone who's both practical AND
    caring.  When one side doesn't see enough of the desired quality
    in the other, tensions develop... but these are low-level tensions
    that normally don't interfere with day-to-day living.  But then the
    Hallmark Holiday comes along and reminds us, once a year, of what
    we are missing (or PERCEIVE we are missing).  It is at these times
    that the whole year's worth of tension can be let off at once in
    a single screaming fight or crying jag.
    
    Prof. Higgins asked why a woman can't be more like a man.  I'd like
    to think that the two can meet somewhere in the middle, as my wife
    and I have done.  I'd say we have approximately equal measures of
    caring/emotion and practicality/logic so that we both tend to see
    things in a similar way.
    
    --jim
    

    Well, let's *really* go down a rathole!  Valentine's Day was around and
    celebrated looooonnnnnggg before Hallmark was even a glitter on a card.
    
    E Grace

re:566.4                 Men, Women, Valentine's Day                   4 of 17
>        Try and find a card for .75 cents!
>    bonnie

Hey, .75 cent cards are dime a dozen. Just need to know where to shop..

'course, if i "tried" to give my own one of these "cheap" cards ...

i don't think she'd would get mad ... sho just wouldn't ...

-BobE

    Re: last.
    
    ".75 cent cards are a dime a dozen".  I love it!  Yogi Berra would
    be proud ... :^)
    
    LArry

    
    re:21
    
    I could not agree with you more. But, unlike you, I married a woman
    (whom I love beyond words) who likes to celebrate days like feb 14.
    
    Yesterday was the first valentine's day (in seven years) that I did not
    send her anything. I just didn't feel like it. She is smart and will
    probably find a way to ask me why I acted differently this year.
    
    Art.

    re .25, I don't understand how you can "love someone beyond words" and
    yet not feel like sending them something for Valentine's Day.
    
    Hopefully your wife feels differently, though.
    
    Lorna
    

	What has loving someone to do with feeling like sending a Valentine's
	Day card? I think that seeing the two (love and card) as related
	somehow is at the heart of the difference between men and women about
	this day. The two actions are not related to many men. Many men do
	not understand that the two are related to many women. Let alone *why*
	some many women relate the two.

			Alfre

    Well, it seems I've gotten here just in time; some of you don't seem to
    be aware of the risks you're running. Do you realize the RESPONSIBILITY
    you take when you enter into a relationship with Another Human Being?
    My god, people, some of you act like it's just another job, where you
    can take long coffee breaks and filch office supplies and nobody will
    care!
    
    Listen up. Some people place a GREAT DEAL OF IMPORTANCE on things
    which, to you and me, may (and often do) seem trivial. But beware!!! If
    you have led such a person to believe that you find him or her
    important, and then you neglect those "trivial" Things That Mean So
    Much, you might as well take a rusty chisel and drive it into their
    hearts!
    
    You may think I'm being extreme here, but I warn you: PEOPLE HAVE DIED
    FROM HOLIDAY-NEGLECT. Yes. And unless you want to be responsible for a
    similar tragedy, one that will haunt you for the rest of your life, by
    heaven you'd better mark those days on every calendar you own, and
    place a standing order with a reputable florist.
    
    Someday you'll be glad you did.
    
    -b

      I have never been fond of getting roses or any other flowers on
    any occasion.  I don't like the underlying thought: Let me give you
    something that will be dead and ugly in a week.  Thanks, but no thanks.
    
    
                 L.J. (who got flowers again & could care less)
    

re .29,

     Similar views I expressed last year (see below).  I guess it largely 
depends on the culture one is brought up with.  I am a Chinese immigrant, and 
in Chinese literature, flowers are usually used as a symbol for something 
beautiful but fragile and ephemeral.  Of course, in the West, it symbolizes
the same thing, but the difference is in the emphasis.  In the west, the
emphasis is on "beautiful", but in China, the emphasis is on "fragile" and 
"ephemeral".  Lots of poems were written in the end of summer and beginning of 
fall about how the transient life of the beautiful flower withering away.

Eugene


         <<< QUARK::NOTES_DISK:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HUMAN_RELATIONS.NOTE;1 >>>
               -< What's all this fuss about 'sax and violins'? >-
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Note 685.50              Empty-handed on Valentine's Day                50 of 68
HPSTEK::XIA "In my beginning is my end."              8 lines  14-FEB-1990 14:28
                         -< Sorry for the anticlimax. >-
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    I have been in this country for quite a while and in many respect 
    have been assimilated, but I have always been and still am baffled
    by the reasons as to why people send flowers as gifts.  To me, few 
    things are worse than observing a bunch of fresh roses gradually but 
    inevitably wither and die in my living room, and finally tossed away 
    with the garbage, and all this happening in about two weeks....
    
    Eugene

    Well, *I* got flowers from a man who loves me, candy and a card from a
    man who likes me, and one rose and candy from my daughter, and I
    enjoyed getting them all.  I'm glad they felt like it.  :-)
    
    Lorna
    

    
    I used to leave flowers incognito on v day... i understand that 
    this is frowned upon nowadays..

I dunno, Bob.  It can be fun if done properly, as I once found out.  But
I wouldn't recommend it as a shy person's substitute for being open about
it.

				Steve

    I would have really enjoyed flowers on this VD.  Instead I got a box of
    candy from a guy I have been living with for 2and a hlf years, a guy
    who says he loves me, a guy who says I should be on a diet, a guy who
    gives me a hard time every time I have something sweet.  I really got
    upset after all I have been going to Weight Watchers for two weeks now.
    I got the same box of candy his mother got from him.  I didnt feel like
    he put much thought into the gift.  I wouldnt have cared if he had
    gotten me a card or written me a long letter to let me know that he
    *thought* about me and wanted me to know *I* was special to him.
    I appreciate the thought but was kinda hurt at his insensativity
    
    
    shannon
    
    
    
    
    

Re: .34

Shannon, I think perhaps that you can learn something from this...

		Steve

    	I took the day off work. My wife had forgotten it was Valentine
    day, but happened to have no work that day. We went window shopping,
    bought a few things, and had lunch out together.
    
    	The things we bought were bathroom fittings and new loudspeakers
    for the lounge to replace the pair that our elder daughter fried during
    the party she organised for new year.
    
    	I don't really go much for cards in general, but I still carry with
    me a card my wife made for me 20 years ago.

    
>    Will Hallmark ever market same-sex Valentine Day cards?
    
They sorta do!!!  I noticed this year that they have these new 
categories called "For the man in my life" and "for the woman in my 
life."  They are worded so that the gender of the giver is unknown.

I know, I know.  It isn't an explicitly gay card, but it works!


						--Gerry

    Gerry--
    
    Send them a letter thanking or congratulating them for their open
    mindedness.
    
    CC to Reader's Digest.
    
    ed

    I like receiving flowers, *because* they won't last.  When I was
    younger, receiving a plant depressed me because it wouldn't last
    either, but was supposed to.  Now when I receive a plant, I give it
    away asap, keeping and treasuring the thought of it.
    
    aq