Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    
    I have not lost my relationship with my daughter, but I can tell you
    one of the things that would bother me in that situation. Much of what
    I get out of my relationship with my daughter is gained in small
    obscure moments, almost unnoticed. When time is limited and much of
    what is going on has to be planned, that spontinaity may be lost. 
    
    I feel bad for your situation and hope you can make the best of it.
    
    ed

    Michelle,
    
    If you've let this child into your life, I mean really in, what loss
    do you feel?  Now if you feel the loss, put yourself in you boyfriends
    sneakers and really experience your feelings.  It's a scary feeling
    to think that the bond is broken and the love of this child will
    disappear from him.
    
    good luck..
    
    jim
    
    If I can help drop a line.

    
    re -1
    
    Jim,
    
    I do feel the loss, but I feel like I am losing a really good
    friend.  I just can't imagine what it feels like to actually
    lose a child.  His relationship will not be cut off completely
    as he will have her on alternate weekends.  What he seems to
    be most afraid of is that he will no longer be her Daddy.
    
    I was brought up without a father since he died while I was
    very young.  So in a way I can understand his feelings of
    not being a Daddy anymore.  Though I don't think he has anything
    to worry about on that.  She has only known him as Daddy.
    What I really can't understand is what it is that he feels
    he is losing from her.  He gains so much from her in the
    way of happiness.  Little things she does make him so very
    happy.  I feel that I really cant relate to those things
    cause I am not a parent.  And these feelings are between
    Daddy(parent) and Erin(child) only.  I can see the results,
    but it is the process to gain the results that baffles me.
    Maybe I will only truly be able to understand these feelings
    when I myself become a parent.
    
    Thanks for caring
    Michele

My son's mother and I separated when he was one month old.  She took him to
live with her in Westfield, MA.  I eventually got visitation rights of two
weekends every other month, three weekends the months in between, two additional
weeks per year, plus certain holidays and other special days.

I never felt as though I wasn't his father.  I missed him terribly, and was
concerned about his upbringing.  I wasn't concerned about his physical or
emotional health, but was afraid that he would grow up with what I considered
to be inappropriate values and attitudes.

I finally realized, though, that by devoting most of each visitation weekend
to time with Justin that I was getting at least as much time with him as I would
have gotten if his mother and I had stayed together or if I had had custody and
she had had the same visitation rights I had.

For about three years I drove from eastern MA to Westfield, MA and back, a
distance of over 100 miles one way, twice each visitation weekend, so I could
spend those weekends with Justin.

The trips to Westfield are almost nonexistent now.   Several years ago Justin's
mother asked me to take custody of him and at that time I accorded her the same
visitation rights I had had and also agreed to do all or most of the driving.
For reasons of her own, she sees him about one weekend every three or four
months.

					Larry
					  ~

    
    Re .0:
    
           Has he tried to get a court order barring her from leaving
    the state?  I've heard of cases in which court injuctions have been
    obtained preventing the custodial parent from moving so as to make
    visitation rights unworkable.
    
           And her argument that she can't afford to live in Mass. is
    nonsense - child support guidelines are set up to ensure that the
    custodial parent has AT LEAST as high a standard of living as the
    non-custodial parent, so if he can live in Mass., then she can too.
    
           I'd suggest that he try to get another hearing and a court
    order preventing her from leaving.

    re -1
    
    She had threatened many times to leave the state when the child
    was under a year.  However, he took action and got a restraining
    order to barr her from leaving the state.  However, since they
    have been working on custody/support arrangements through the
    court the restraining order was lifted.  This woman is a selfish
    person who is angry with my SO for not marrying her.  So she
    is just doing this to get back at him.  Unfortunately, she
    is not taking her child's best interests into consideration.
    
    She had to petition the court to allow her to leave the state.
    She has threatened to do this 2 times previously.  But this
    time she went through with her plan.  So Tuesday this whole
    thing was settled with the mediator in court.  His lawyer
    felt that he would probably lose more if he had the judge 
    decide the outcome so he agreed to a settlement.  So he
    really can no longer use that avenue to prevent her from
    leaving the state.  I'm just afraid that once she removes
    the child from the state that he is going to lose more
    in the ability to ask for custody in the future.  But 
    that is for the courts to decide.
                                     
    Michele

    When I got divorced the kids and I got together on the alternate
    weekends.  There was quite a change in the amount of togetherness,
    obviously, and I sometimes felt as if they were not communicating with
    me.  It drove me just a little bananas because we absolutely could not
    talk.  There was so little time.  
    
    Eventually the kids got a little older and started opening up to me a
    little more. Every now and again they actually talked to me about
    something going on in their lives.  In a group counseling session
    members of the group who were the custodial parents told me that the
    same responses were common even with them.  I stopped worrying about
    it.  
    
    Since then I have moved to Colorado and the kids are still in Delaware. 
    Now, when I call them on the phone, they actually talk to me.  They
    know that that is the only way they can except when either they visit
    me or I visit them.  The most important thing I've discovered is that I
    have to be myself so that they know who their dad is.  I have to pay
    attention to them to know who they are.  I have to keep letting them
    know that I'm paying as close attention as I can.  I've discovered,
    from comments they have made, that they are paying attention to me
    (sometimes).
    
    Family courts can be brutal...fighting is fierce...males rarely win.  I
    tried to keep the kids out of the middle.  I was successfull though
    non-custodial and child-support-poor.

      I have to add my two cents.  I have been out here in Mass for
    two years and my children are back in New York with the wolf
    (ex-wife). I used to see my two sons and daughter every other 
    week and they are much closer to me know than before.  I agree with
    (8) Family Courts are not worth a damn.  You and your EX battle
    and the kids suffer.  He could get the restraining order to keep
    her from taking his daughter out of the State but what would he
    gain?  When she turns 14 she has legal rights of her own and
    could live with who she wants to pending a child counsolers advise.
    My kids are 8 years older then they were when I remarried and
    we are closer than ever.
    
    Good luck,
       Den
    
    

    I left my wife last year.  She lives in Texas and I in Mass.  I
    have not been able to see my kids since last April.  But, no one
    made me come her...it was my choice.
    
    But, part of my sorrow in "losing" the kids is this: 
    
    I resent *her* having them, and distorting their view of me.  That
    is happening, and it causes me no end of problems.
    
    I suspect part of your guy's feelings are derived from his
    anger/mistrust of the child's mother.  He's may have reason to feel
    that if miles separate them, then that will enhanse the mother's
    opportunity to alienate the child, and he will have no recourse.
    
    tony

    re .0
    
    What's he losing?
    
    Lost moments full of unconditional love.
    Some control in her upbringing.
    
    Love between a parent and child can be so strong and full of joy,
    because it can be totally unconditional.  It doesn't have to be
    earned.  It has a very special quality.  When almost every moment
    with a child brings you unbounded love and pleasure, and allows you 
    to express love and caring,  it's very hard to live without.  Being
    away from that child could be like having your heart torn out.
    
    Just my thoughts -
    Paula

    Unfortunatelty there is no real short term solution to 
    your friend's problems. He just will need to make every
    effort to see his child whenever possible. There is
    a long term solution though. We who have concerns about
    the injustices and bias that go on in custody cases need
    to work our legislators to evoke changes in the current
    process. I see several things that need to change; 
    
     1) Courts in all states need to first consider joint
        custody before anything else.
     2) Custody hearings should be required by law to first
        go to a mediator before judges and lawyers get involved.
    
    These two items I believe would start to force more equality
    in the custody process and also would work towards insuring
    that the child's best interest are being looked after.
    
    I did go through a divorce and almost a child custody battle,
    but fortunately we got into mediation and worked out a shared
    custody arrangement. There were sometimes though, before we got into
    mediation, that I thought I might lose my daughter. 
    
    All will work out in the end.......
    
    Good luck
    
    Mark

    I was just informed the other day that my ex was moving to the west
    coast for a one year job assignment with this company.  We have
    a 10 year old daughter.  I was seeing her better that 50% of the
    time.  I am lost now.  I can begin to describe the hurt and anger
    I feel.  I have not spoken with a NH lawyer yet but from I understand
    there is nothing I can do to stop her from doing what she is doing.
    I don't want to stop my ex from any job opportunity she may have
    but on the same token I don't want my child taken away from me -
    and in effect that is what's happening.  
    
    I'm not writting this to complain, and I'm not writting this for
    advice - as I believe there is no advice that will change this.
    I guess this is just another heartless divorce story and that's
    how I feel about it.
    
    					another hurt father
    
    

    
    
    re .0 & .13
    
    I currently see my children 50% of the time. I feel that the time that
    I spend with them is *real* quality time. That is all that is
    important. They know who is Daddy, and who is mommy's boyfriend. They
    also know how much daddy loves them because I tell them and show them
    all the time.
    
      If she were to pack up and move, yeah, there would be alot of pain,
    but nobody said life was going to be easy, so, *I*, make the best of
    what I got, when I get it...
    
    johnboy...
    

    You lot have touched a nerve. So, from this side of the pond here
    goes. I'll try to keep it brief.
    
    I saw my son and daughter in April 1988, after he was rushed into
    hospital. I saw my daugter for about 20 seconds before my ex-in-laws
    took her away and my son for 45 minutes. During the entire time
    I was there my ex-wife read distracted him with stories.
    Before that I saw them about 6 times in 3 years.  I bet you want
    to know why.  My ex insists on be present and that the visists take
    place at her parents house, and my second wife is not present.
    
    She lies as well.
    For example,this years holiday for the three of them was a four week 
    trip to Aussie.  I signed the authorisation forms for the children 
    to leave the country, then she went to court to get authority.  
    Now the story why they did not go is......the forms were not signed 
    by me!!!).
                                                            
    My ex NEVER takes the children to see their grandparents, so they
    visit the children at my ex' parents' house.
                                    
    A court case cost 1,000 pounds then my money ran out. I don't qualify
    for legal aid. 
    
    my second wife has to work for us to survive because of the 4000
    pound a year maintenance. We can not consider having children either,
    we really could not afford it. 
    
    Folks, I would love to see my children one tenth as much as you
    see yours.
    
    One day I might tell you some more.
    
    Dave
    

    I've just re-read my note .15.  There are quite a few grammatical
    and spelling errors.  For that I apologise.
    
    If any part needs clarification, please ask.
    
    Regards,
    Dave