Conference quark::mennotes-v1

    RE: .0  Sorry you've had a bad experience.  My version goes like
    this: 
    
             Love is reality created by God.
    
             Marriage is a reality created by love.
    
             Divorce is an allusion created by lawyers to destroy both
             of the above.
             
                                                          Mike

    	Lawyers destroy love?  I don't think so.
    

    
    ALF - "I want to speak to a lawyer."
    
    ANGEL - "This is heaven.  There are no lawyers here."
    

Since we are all "just thinking"...

I don't think god (if he/she/it exists) created women to be stupid.  

I also think that a marriage based only on love will fail.  I love a 
lot of people; I don't marry a lot of people.


						--Ger

    
    re .-1
    
>    I also think that a marriage based only on love will fail.  I love a 
>    lot of people; I don't marry a lot of people.

     
    I guess that depends on what you define love to be.  I don't believe
    that a marriage can survive unless it is based on love.
    
    Mark
    
    

    Mark, I agree.  I think it's a matter of how you have your priorities
    set up.
    
                                                   Mike

    
>>    I also think that a marriage based only on love will fail.  I love a 
>>    lot of people; I don't marry a lot of people.

The keyword for me is "only."  I didn't mean to imply that folks in 
relationships don't need love.  I think they do.  

It's just that commitment and shared paths/goals are as important to
me as love.  (To me, "shared paths/goals" means that people thinking 
of coupling should be interesting in heading in the same direction in 
life, not with conflicting dreams and goals.)  

I have heard some people define "love" so that it kind of includes the
basic principles of commitment and shared paths/goals. However, it has
been really helpful for me to separate these two things from "love,"
so that I can pay close attention to what holds my relationships
together.  For me, to say "love is all I need," causes me to lose
focus on all the "components of love" that need work in order to keep
a relationship going.  It's too easy for me to get all glassy eyed
over some vague notion of "love" while forgetting to work on
commitment or to seek someone with the same goals/paths as me. 

From my dictionary:  Love   Intense affection and warm feeling for
			    another.

Where is the commitment in the definition?  Where is the shared vision
of the future?  It ain't there. For me, loving someone is not the same
thing as choosing someone headed in my direction or making a
rock-solid commitment to be their life's partner.  To me, love is a
separate component.  Love is just the foundation.  You can't live in a
foundation, though. 

I guess I'm very anti "Love will keep us together" or "all you need is 
love."  Every time I hear couples say things like that, I say a little 
prayer for them.  I'm choosing another path (again).

							--Ger

I forgot to mention the fourth component that I am looking for to 
start a relationship: love, compatibility, shared path/goals, and 
commitment.

I think compatibility is important.  I have deeply loved people I 
couldn't live with because of compatibility problems (my sister comes
to mind).  It's just that I don't think that compatibility can be
"worked on" or modified like love (it can grow, right?), shared goals,
and commitment.  From my perspective, it's kind of there or it isn't.

To me, the notion of shared paths is summed up in the Jim Croce song, 
"I've Got a Name," when he says:

	I've got a dream.

	Oh, I know I can share it if you want me to.
	If you're going my way, 
	I'll go with you.

I don't see the sense of trying to marry someone who is headed down a 
different road.


						--Ger

    Continuation of "just thinking" --
    
    Ger, I think you've got something there (your last several replies).
    
    May I quote a yellowed newspaper clipping I carry in my wallet (without
    permission from the author, of course):
    
    "Dear Ann Landers:  In regard to the 17-year-old who is confused
    because her 40-year-old aunt insisted, 'There is no such thing as
    love,' I have this to offer:
    
    "I was divorced at 23, widowed at 48, and am now married again to
    a fine man.  I have been in love, and I have been loved, but never
    have I been loved by the man I was in love with.
    
    "I settled for home and family, security and companionship because
    there was nothing else.  Love just never worked for me.  But I am
    not complaining.  I know what I have, and I am satisfied.  I also
    know how much more I might have had if love had existed on both
    sides at the same time.
    
    "To love and be loved is the richest of all blessings.  Deep down
    I will always feel I missed out on the most magical experience of
    humankind. -- Wish It Could Have Been for Me
    
    "Dear Wish:  I wonder how many married people (men as well as women)
    will see themselves in my column today?  Millions, you can be sure.
    Those of you who are loved by the ones you love are indeed the
    luckiest people in the world.  Take care of it.  It's precious."
    
    How true!
    K.
    

    I know I am one of the lucky ones.  When I met my wife, my goals
    were changed.  I agree that love is the foundation, but to me it
    is the reason we do what we do.
    
                                                      Mike
    

    To quote the J. Giels band "Love Stinks"
    
    If your not in love it stinks.
    If you love and are not loved it stinks.
    
    If you are one of the lucky ones that have both then have a nice
    life and I wish you the best....
    
    Re .9 <I'm very Anti "Love will keep us together">
    
    Dito.....
    
    Steve
    

    
    	Love and commitment are, to me, like the two circles in a Venn
    	diagram.
    
    	Only at the point of overlap is "ideal" we were brought up
    	to believe in.
    
    	From my experience, relationships can fall anywhere on that
    	diagram.
    
    	Larry