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Conference quark::mennotes-v1

Title:Topics Pertaining to Men
Notice:Archived V1 - Current file is QUARK::MENNOTES
Moderator:QUARK::LIONEL
Created:Fri Nov 07 1986
Last Modified:Tue Jan 26 1993
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:867
Total number of notes:32923

223.0. "Thirty Years" by PNEUMA::WILSON (Set sail in those turquoise days...) Wed Apr 13 1988 12:24

    For the longest time I suppressed my feelings for art and
    literature; no, the feelings that go beyond these even. Finally
    as I approach my thirtieth year I can say that I am sensitive
    and not feel that I'm reciting a cliche or waving my ego flag. 
    
    I think I speak for many men when I say I feel thoughts that I'd
    never share in NOTES or even with anyone. Greedy? Maybe. But it's 
    a good greed. I can't imagine life without it.
    
    Finally, I think men can admit to taking pride in their sensitivity
    as a valuable thing in itself. When a man says he is sensitive that 
    does not necessarily mean he cannot change a flat tire or fight wars 
    if need be. A higher type of man does not begin wars but fights them 
    if necessary for the sake of the ideas behind them that he believes in. 
    
    I have ideas on being a better person: magnanimous, not wasting time 
    in any petty squabbles, celebrating myself for what I've made of
    myself, realizing that there's always room for improvement, trying to 
    understand that a person's life does not necessarily need a touchstone 
    to prove its value.
    
    
    WW
    
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223.1An Honest ReplyGRANMA::MWANNEMACHERWed Apr 13 1988 13:1328
    WW,
    
    I agree with you to a certain extent.  I think all men have their
    sensitive side, however, I think that men are not as sensitive as
    women.  I think that there are many factors which contribute to
    this. Some of them are, that this is the way we have been brought up,
    generation after generation.  I don't think that these roles which
    have been accepted by both men and women in society for hundreds
    of years can be changed in just a few years.  I also don't think
    that things should be changed very drastically.  I believe there
    is a need for men to be men and women to be women.  I think that
    the roles we have come naturally, an instinct of sorts.  I, for
    on, would hate to see a time when you cannot tell men from women.
    This may sound very chauvinistic, and may be to a certain extent,
    but it's how I feel.  I know there are at least some women left
    who feel the same as I do.  I am not to the extreme end of the spectrum
    saying that women are less equal as men as people.  I am saying
    that men have their place in society and women have theirs, equally
    as valuable and both contributing to a sucessful society.  (I realize
    this last statement leaves me open for statements such as, "yeah,
    a womens place is in the kitchen." this is not what I mean.)  What
    is wrong with men being men and women being women?  My philosophy
    in life is similar to WW's, it is simply, "Be a good person".
    
                                     Just Being Me,
                                     Mike
    
                                                
223.2Define your view further pleaseWARNER::PURMALNow located in Cupertino, CAWed Apr 13 1988 15:479
    re: .1
    
>                                                    I believe there
>   is a need for men to be men and women to be women.
    
         Please define what must be done by a man to be a man, and what
    a woman must do to be a woman.
    
    ASP
223.3Men & Women-My humble opinionGRANMA::MWANNEMACHERWed Apr 13 1988 17:0015
    I think that everyone has a good basic idea of what the characteristics
    of a men and women are.  I don't want to risk getting into specifics
    and have someone nitpick on them.  I will go as far as to say that
    a man is usually the masculine one and the female is the feminine
    one.  I know that this isn't much and I know that there are differing
    levels of these characteristics.  Also please keep in mind that I am
    saying in general and not every case.  I don't want to offend anyone,
    and that is why I said this is my opinion.  I also don't want get
    to the point of where I feel like I have to walk on eggshells and
    I'm almost there.  I will end by saying that I think the women is
    better (as a rule) at nuturing a child than a man is.  A man is
    (usually) physically stronger than a women.  Again, this is my opinion,
    however, it is along these lines that I see men and women.
    
                                                              MW
223.4MCIS2::MORANWed Apr 13 1988 19:316
    Re: .0-.1-.3
    
    Wow......Heavy....
    
    ;^)
    
223.5 WEA::PURMALNow located in Cupertino, CAWed Apr 13 1988 23:1860
    re: .3
    
        Thanks for the answer.  I was trying to set you up for a "those
    are your opinions of what men and women should be, why should we
    use your 'ideals'?" reply.
    
        I think that what .0 was trying to say was that the men must
    be men and women must be women pressures in our society have put
    him into the position that he is now.  He has felt the need to
    repress his feelings for art and liturature because of need to
    "be a man".
    
        I will buy into the fact that there are physiological
    differences between men and women that tend (the key word is tend)
    to make some activities easier or more appropriate for members of
    members of one of the sexes.  However instead of enforcing the
    differences which have evolved I feel that we should allow those
    who are exceptions to the 'rules' to pursue their goals without
    having to worry about whether most men or most women would do this.
    
        I don't consider any of the 'traditional' roles of men and women
    in society as bad.  I just think that these roles shouldn't be expected.
    People who like the traditional roles will tend to associate with
    each other, and those who don't care if they can tell men from women
    (to use your example of what you don't want to see) will follow
    their group.  If you meet a woman that you have a difficult time
    identiying as such you should take that as a warning that you probably
    don't have much in common.  Therefore you shouldn't care whether
    they want to be that way.
    
        I have read your replies and come to the conclusion that you
    don't expect everyone to act as you feel is right, you just feel
    more comfortable being around those who do.  Please tell me if I'm
    wrong.
    
    re: .0

        Maybe it comes from being raised in a liberal family, or maybe
    it's from being rasied in California, but I've rarely felt that
    I've had to supress my feelings.  I may just be one of the lucky
    ones.
    
        I've always been somewhere out of the norm though.  I was always
    smaller, younger, and weaker than most of my other classmates in
    grade school.  I was one of the people who was picked last or near
    last when the class was divided into teams.  I guess that it may
    have been easier for me to forsake the expected norms because I
    wasn't in the norm anyway.
    
        I think that we all have our private thoughts and concepts.
    There are things that I would never put in a NOTES conference too.
    I just know that they would probably be taken in the wrong way,
    and I wouldn't want others to misjudge me based on their
    misconceptions.
    
        I hope that you continue to grow and become more like the person
    that you want to be.  I know how far short I fall of the ideals
    that I believe in.
    
    ASP