Conference quark::human_relations-v1

Paula


My mum and dad have been married 34 years and seem to have it about right.  Its
not always perfect, and as I get older I am beginning to see that (if you'd 
asked 10 years ago I'dve said they were perfect), but with a bit of work it
seems to be lasting.

They argue, but they basically still love each other.  My mum sums it up as
"When I look around a room full of good looking fellas, your Dad is still the 
only one I'm interested in"  





Xtine

    
    Paula,
    
    First off many hugs!!  Second, you are taking this much to seriously.
    It may sound strange.  Life is too short to be dwelling on your past
    experiences be they good or bad.  So you made some mistakes, we all
    do!!  As long as you look at those mistakes and learn from them.
    Try not to dwell on the bad things, life is just not worth that.
    
    My grandparents have been married 50+ years.  Sometimes they fight
    like cat and dog, but they still love each other.  There is no
    such thing as a perfect relationship.  It takes alot of hard work
    to make it.  I have been involved for 5+ years in a very weird
    relationship.  Some of it has been hell, but the times that are
    good are most definately worth sticking through the bad times.
    It is not easy, but is most definately rewarding.
    
    You are not the only reason why your marriages did not work out.
    There were two other people involved who were just as responsible
    for the break ups as you were.  I feel that life and relationships
    are based on cycles.  There is no constant time of happiness nor
    is there no constant time of sadness.  
    
    A couple we are great friends with have been together for 12 years.
    This is two gay men, and though they legally can not make their
    relationship "real" they are committed to each other for the rest
    of their lives.  So you do not have to be married either to have
    a wonderful relationship.  I feel the key ingrediants are love,
    patience, understanding and a committment to make it work.
    
    Hang in there and give yourself a hug.  
    
    Michele

    I don't have any answers for you, Paula, just more questions.  But if
    it helps at all, please take some solace in the knowledge that others
    are concerned about you and others have been through what you're
    facing.
    
    Your questions come at a key time in my life.  I'm preparing for a
    family celebration of my parents' 50th wedding anniversary in one
    month.  As one of their three children, I'm expected to say some warm
    and memorable things about the 50 years they have spent together.  But
    I'm having a great deal of difficulty with this, because from my
    perspective, those weren't "happy" years.  I can't say that I've ever
    seen a great deal of love expressed between them, and even that's an
    overstatement.  Yet they stayed together for 50 years, and that fact
    alone deserves some sort of respect.
    
    In analyzing the what and why of their relationship, I've just about
    decided that people today, of my generation and the ones following,
    maybe expect too much from our "significant" relationships.  I believe
    that's in part because we're a more self-centered lot than my parents'
    generation was, but I also believe that it's in part because of the
    mobility of our lives and the transiency of our relationships as a
    whole -- not just the significant ones.  And I don't personally think
    that the changes are all bad.  Sure, we've lost some of the stability
    and discipline of my parents' time, but we've gained an increased sense
    of self esteem and independence.  It just depends on where your values
    lie whether that's good or bad.
    
    Like I said, I don't have any answers.  But I'll be watching this
    string with interest to see if others have some answers for you and
    perhaps some insight for me as well.
    
    Take care, Paula.
    Karen
                                        

Re: 1147.0       What does it take to live happily ever after?        2 replies
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>a Very Good Longterm Relationship?  My experience and the reality
>I'm seeing around me are telling me that they don't exist, and I
>want to be mistaken!!!  I want to know that mister and missus right
>can live happily ever after - that it may take some hard work, and
>it might not feel good all the time, but that it does exist in
>reality *somewhere*!  And if it does, then How does it happen???

    Why are the easiest asked questions so "iffy" to answer. Basically
    I am on my third marriage, my wife her second.
    
    I learned part of the answer 5 years ago in H_R notesfile, from a
    man whom I have heard is now divorced.
    
    First Rule: Both partners need to solve whatever problems issues
    which arise.
    
    Second Rule: Don't consider divorce as an option. Consider that the
    power of your personal love for each other is so intent, that it
    will give each of you the will to follow the First Rule.
    
    We, my SO and I, will celebrate our Fourth Anniversary in Sept
    this year. I can say will with certainty, because we are agreed that
    divorce isn't a realistic option.
    
    
    Comments:
    I am personally responsible for my own happiness. There is no event
    or combination of events that will cause me to become unhappy. It
    is my opinion of an event which will determine my happiness.
    
    Additional Comments:
    Once, while a member of a club which was faltering and going down
    the tubes as a viable organization. One recovery method would have
    been to reform as a new club, and start over again. The Clubs
    Officers (virtually the entire local chapter), instead decided
    to "do those things as if we were beginning a new club". This
    action propelled the club from 7 or 8 loyal members to the maximum
    limit of 45 members in 6 months time.
    
    A close friends of mine, married for over 35 years, found
    themselves on the verge of divorce, and managed to recover by using
    a similar principle. Basically, starting over with each other, with
    dating, courtship, and eventually a ceremony of reaffir,ing their
    vows.
    
    I have seen this repeated several times with friends and relatives.
    However, in this case, Rule #1 applies: Each person must be
    committed to finding an acceptable solution. Its not a matter of
    "giving up" our own personal desires, but rather a  "Taking on" of
    those <things> to assure success of the marriage.

    If you really want to "live happily everafter", buy a dog or cat.
    If its a loving relationship with another human, there's alot of
    accepting that needs to go on ...
    
    -BobE
    
    
    

    Hi, Paula!

    I know how tough it is to lose a relationship--especially if you've put
    a lot into it, but it does happen--sometimes more than once.  One thing
    you may ask yourself to help feel that the entire thing wasn't a waste
    is "What have I learned from this experience that I might not have
    learned otherwise?"  If you can find even a shred of growth--whether
    it's a crash course in reality or a sudden heightening of compassion
    for others in similar situations, then it *has* been worth the pain
    even if it doesn't seem so now.  When I have delved into what I have
    learned about myself, I always seem to discover that I am a little bit
    stronger and a little bit wiser than I would have been had the
    experience not come my way.  Each hurt has helped me to grow, so even
    if I would have preferred to not grow in that manner, I accept the
    growth and move on.

    The uniting of two people with different understandings, hopes, dreams
    and fears is a challenge in itself, and in order to undertake
    refocusing the "me" to "we," there has to be a strong determination and
    commitment from BOTH partners.  If one is totally committed and the
    other is only partly committed, it may not work.  From talking to you
    before, I have the feeling that you were very committed to your
    marriage.  If that is the case, try to ease up on yourself and be
    gentle while you get through the pain.  There is a a better tomorrow, just
    keep reaching toward it and one day you'll discover that the worst is
    over.

    In Utah, where I live, there are more couples together after many years
    than I have ever seen elsewhere.  They appear to be reasonably happy and
    accepting of each other and content in their relationships.  To answer
    your original question, yes there are people who stay married and live
    happily together.  Have faith, my friend!

    Hugs and Warm Thoughts,
    Barb

    My own philosophy - you don't have to buy it, but
    
    A good relationship does not result so much from *finding* the right
    person, as it does from *being* the right person.
    
    Mary

    I can empathise with how you feel Paula.  My 2nd marriage of 7+ years
    has also gone down the toilet (and before people flame what they might
    consider to be a flippant attitude - don't - I've gone through a year
    of hell and heartache over this).  However - I *STILL* believe in
    marriage.  My parents have been married over 46 years and both sets of
    grandparents went over 50+ years each.  I'm still trying to figure out
    how I missed that boat :-))....but long term relationships ARE out
    there.  Sometimes you miss them when you yourself are feeling down and
    out.
    
    Hang in there - from experience it really does get better!  Honest! 
    :-)
    
    Lynne
    

    Thanks for the replies.  Oh, I know there are some relationships that
    last a long time -- my own grandparents have been married 72 years.
    They were born around the turn of the century, and that's the way
    things were done back then.  But I don't think that they're what I'd
    call "happy" -- they haven't slept together for at least as long as I
    can remember.  But my mother has had 2 failed marriages (1 with my
    father), I've had 2, my brother is in his second but it doesn't seem
    really happy either.
    
    I talked with a guy at work last week, who seemed to have a real good
    marriage now, for over 30 years.  He sounds like he's unusually wise in a
    lot of ways, and he and his wife have some things in common.  It was
    really neat to listen to him.
    
    That's the sort of marriage I wonder about - where they're still happy
    with each other, and *do* things together.  They've raised their
    children, and they still enjoy being together and doing things
    together.  I'd like to find that.
    
    BTW, I think the reply about "being" rather than "finding" makes a LOT
    of sense!!
    
    Thank you,
    Paula

    Hi Paula,
    
    All I can say is that you seem to be able to express your emotion in
    a structured neo-poetic form and that must mean you are in a good position 
    to get through them.
    
    Good luck
    
    Guy.
    

    Paula,
    
    I sympathize with you.... more and more the Long Term Relationship
    seems to becoming extinct.  
    
    My parents had one.... married 34 years until my mother died 2 years
    ago.  I've been married twice........ I asked my dad what the secret
    was to his long marriage..... His answer surprised me.
    
    
    1) Patience.... you have to put up with a lot but you have to be
    willing to put up with it or the relationship will fail.
    
    2) Understanding... you have to be willing to see things from the other 
    side of the argument also regardless how "RIGHT" you are.
    
    3) Empathy.... you have to be able to feel the same feelings with each 
    other... 
    
    4) Communications.... not just verbally but non-verbally also... you
    have to know that when she lifts her right hand and rubs her cheek
    while sighing it means "In ten more minutes I'm gonna ask to leave
    here".
    
    5) Luck... you have to find someone who is willing to do all that and 
    realize that there are times YOU won't.
    
    6) Luck.... you have to find someone who knows when to be the tiger 
    and when to be the lamb.
    
    7) Luck.... You'll never get any written warranties on anything in the 
    relationship.
    
    8) Luck.... You are more then likely to meet Mr./Miss. Right at least 
    a dozen times in your life... sooner or later you might even meet the 
    right one.
    
    9) Luck and more luck.
    
    
    As to finding the right person... I think I've gotten lucky this time, 
    but the last marriage and several bad relationships makes me hesitant
    and maybe that's a bad thing... then again... maybe it's a good
    thing... It means I'm not going to say "So far so good... I guess I'll
    marrey her"  I'm using extreme caution this time.
    
    As for people my own age... My closest buddy has been married 12 years
    now and still happy.... He tends to agree with my dad's list.
    
    That's all I can tell you.
    
    Skip

I believe that the main reason for happy long term relationships is luck.

We all enter into relationships with good intentions but few of them are
successful. Why?

A few observations based on fifty plus years of living.

It takes two to make a successful relationship but only one to destroy it.
The luck comes into play in that both parties have the right qualities
that are necessary to sustain it. Few people are honest enough with them
selves to admit they don't have these qualities. Have you noticed when
most people speak of failed relationships its always the other parties fault.
The qualities for success have been identified quite well in previous replies
so I won't repeat them. Even if both parties begin with the right stuff it
is possible that one or both will mature; develop into a person that no
longer has the right stuff. This is also another instance of bad luck.

IMHO what percentage of people that I have known have the right stuff and
have maintained it over time. 5%. I believe these are the odds for a
successful long term marriage.

I am one of those people who do not have the qualities for a successful
relationship. I was married for 23 years and no matter how hard I worked
at it I was unable to find any happiness or fulfillment in it. I should
add that I was fortunate to have had a great wife. In spite of our failed
marriage my ex-wife would still remarry if she found the right person and
I believe if she found someone with the right stuff she would have a good
marriage.

I do not believe a person should feel negative about themselves because
they do not have what it takes to sustain relationships anymore than we
should devalue ourselves because we are not great athletes or wealthy. Only
a very small percentage of people succeed in those area's also.


I would like to make a final closing observation. Just because people
remain married for a long time does not mean they are in a successful
marriage.

Big Daddy

Note 1147.0       What does it take to live happily ever after?

>    Are there any real live people out there who have or who have
>    seen a Very Good Longterm Relationship?

Yes, there are.  I know quite a few, but will speak here of one 
particular couple I know well.

They have been married for over thirty years. Counting the years they 
'went steady' (yes, there was such a thing in the good old days), they 
have been together for longer than the time they lived before they got 
together. That's Long Term.

As to how good their relationship has been - I can't grade it,
except to say neither of them would have had it any other way, had
they they had their lives to live over again. This should qualifies as
at least 'Very Good'...


>    ... can live happily ever after - that it may take some hard work, 

I have heard the theory that one has to 'work hard at it' - mostly, 
from divorced people that just know what it is that, had they done it, 
they would still be together. In this case, as well as others I know 
intimately enough to tell, such is not the case. They have never worked 
at it - let alone, worked hard. They just lived it, day to day.


>   ...  it might not feel good all the time ....

No, it doesn't feel good ALL the time. The important thing is that it 
feels good ALMOST all the time. They used to have a good fight every 
two or three years. Nowadays, they are both older and less patient... 
they may have a bitter argument every several months or an year. 
Afterwards, they take a couple of weeks before things go really back 
to normal.


>    but that it does exist 
>    in reality *somewhere*!  And if it does, then How does it 
>    happen??? How do you know when you have the right mate?

I do have my pet ideas about why some marriages seem to work so well 
while others do not. I got much flak for any of them, but will repeat 
them here anyway...

First - you have to find the exact right person. Something --call it 
'chemistry' for lack of a better term-- has to be there between the 
two. I am not talking about searing love, even though I suppose that 
helps, but about an indefinable affinity, a meeting of the souls, 
something very deep inside the two people that makes them 'right'
for each other. 

I have no idea how does one go about finding one's true soulmate, or 
how does one know --having located a potential soulmate-- that 'this 
is it'. It's probably luck. In my specific example, they simply lucked 
out young. You say haven't so far, but you could luck out tomorrow
morning. 

Second (and I know  people will say this is shallow, but what the 
heck) - I think that great sex is very important. It's very difficult 
to have negative feelings towards the lady while one is aching to paw 
said lady all over...

Third - communication. They talk incessantly. They don't mind if 
something gets repeated (they even have their own private joke about 
that) - they say it anyway. When an issue comes up, they can sit in 
bed all night yakety-yaking away at it, dissecting it lengthwise, 
crosswise and diagonally. By the time they are talked out, they know 
exactly, but exactly, how the other feels and thinks about it and what 
it will take for both of them to deal with it effectively.

Fourth (or, maybe, first) - commitment. They are obviously in this 
relationship for the long haul and always have been. There is no out
for either of them - don't ask why, that's just the way it is. They
know it either works, or they'll be miserable. So, they make it
work. 

Paula, please believe that there are many, many couples that are 
exceedingly happy until death does them apart. You may well ask, why 
then do we hear of so many divorces and so few happy marriages? The 
answer is simple - there are so many ways a relationship can go awry, 
but few for it to be perfect. Likewise, there are millions and 
millions of people that are wrong for you, but only few that are 
exactly right.

Don't lose hope - one of these guys could be waiting for you right
around the corner. 

-- Ron

    My parents really seemed to be in love and happy for their entire 37
    yr. marriage, which ended when my father died.  I remember that it
    really struck me when, the day after my father died, my mother referred
    to him as "the man I loved" while talking to me, instead of "my
    husband" or "your father."  I've spent quite a bit of time thinking
    about why my parents had a life-long happy marriage and I didn't.  I
    think a lot of it was luck.  They really got along well together and
    didn't grow apart over the years.  Once when I was unhappily married I
    commented to my mother on how people always say that you have to "work
    at" a happy marriage, and my mother said that she was happily married
    but that it had never seemed like work to her.  They got married in
    1938, though, and I do really think that people had less opportunity
    back then to meet other people they might fall in love with, (most
    women didn't work outside the home, etc.), and, also, that people
    expected less out of life in the way of personal happiness then, too. 
    Nowadays, I think that most people think that they deserve personal
    happiness so if they don't find it in a marriage they move on.  I did. 
    It doesn't seem like there are very many people in their 30's and 40's,
    today, who have been married for a long time and are still happy.  I
    really hope that it's still possible to be happy for years and years,
    in one relationship.  I don't know from experience, yet, though.
    
    Lorna
    

    Paula:
    
    Having read your emotional yet descriptive basenote I'd like to take
    a shot at the answer to "What it takes" to make a successful long term
    relationship.
    
    Two mature humans.
    
    My experience after 46+ years of living and thinking about love and
    happiness always returns to maturity.
    
    I agree with Mary in 0.6 that we must be "right" ourselves instead of
    seeking the painless Mr. or Miss "Right". If that person changes
    tomorrow, will they still be right? If they lose the hair, or the
    athletic ability, or the taut body that made them right, are they
    still right? Adatability and acceptance of change I believe are some
    of the key characteristics of long term successful relationships.
    
    A mature person who is "Ready for Love" as Bad company puts it, will
    IMHO have the following abilities:
    
    1. Honesty
    
    2. Compromise
    
    3. Transferability/Adaptability
    
    
    Honesty covers a lot of territory, but most importantly is honesty
    about oneself. Communication follows naturally and easily between two
    honest people. So does compromise. The essence of compromise is to find
    middle ground; easy when both know where they stand, but very difficult
    when you don't trust the other person or know their true feelings.
    
    Compromise is a crucial part of maturity. It really makes the world go
    around. It requires acceptance of imperfectness and the wisdom to know
    the value of giving something of ourselves and our goals for the
    benefit of another. Some would call this an understanding of
    "sacrifice" and the application of another human quality called
    "courage" which is lacking so much today. I believe that compromise is
    essential to any relationship.
    
    Adaptability and Transferability are two related skills that mature
    people acquire. Adaptability is a pre-requisite for compromise but is
    also important in its own right. It's our ability to adjust ourselves
    and our viewpoint to handle, accept, and deal with a changing
    relationship. My premise is that everybody changes over time. We change
    our eating habits, our hobbies, our skills, our knowledge, to name a
    few things. The right stuff (0.11) becomes the wrong stuff given the
    time involved in a long relationship. One who can adapt themselves
    easily can welcome the changes in the other person.
    
    Transferability is what i call the skill of shifting your interest and
    most importantly your appreciation to the changes in the other person
    as well as yourself. It is related to adaptability. An example would be
    that my interest in antique Moore fountain pens through transferability
    would allow me to appreciate your interest in Armand Marseille (sp?)
    dolls. Or similarly, my interest in the Rolling Stones should not
    preclude my appreciation of your interest in Joan Baez. It's the
    appreciation that the interests of the other in the relationship has
    equal value and merit to one's own interest. 
    
    In all of this I don't want to downplay the role of the sometimes
    disparate levels of basic needs and wants that we all require. That is
    to say basic traits both emotional and sexual play very key roles as
    well. But I have found that wisdom comes gradually about all of these
    things, to some people, not at all. We've got to keep mining for that
    heart of gold. The pebbles will integrate and be stronger than before.
    
    Spuds

We don't follow these all the time, but they make sense to keep trying!


                Twelve Rules for a Happy Marriage*



1.  Never both be angry at once.


2.  Never yell at each other unless the house is on fire.


3.  Yield to the wishes of the other as an exercise in 
self-discipline, if you can't think of a better reason.


4.  If you have a choice between making yourself or your mate 
look good--choose your mate.


5.  If you feel you must criticize, do so lovingly.


6.  Never bring up a mistake of the past.


7.  Neglect the whole world rather than each other.


8.  Never let the day end without saying at least one 
complimentary thing to your life partner.


9.  Never meet without an affectionate greeting.


10.  When you've made a mistake, talk it out and ask for 
forgiveness.


11.  Remember, it takes two to make an argument.  The one who is 
wrong is the one who will be doing most of the talking.



12.  Never go to bed mad.



* Reprinted in the Washington Post by Ann Landers, 2/14/91

If you define LUCK with regard to marriage to mean Love, Understanding, 
Commitment, and Know-how, then I would agree with your statements...

If you think of LUCK to mean something serendipitous then I would have to
disagree with your assumptions and would further venture that you would have
as much chance of a long term marriage as you would of winning a lottery.

I would echo .13's mother in saying that marriage is work but the fruit of a 
good marriage doesn't make it seem like work.

    Re -1
    
    When you look at the number of unhappy marriages and failed marriages 
    a long term one that is happy works out to about the same odds as
    winning the lottery.
    
    Still when I refered to luck it was more in the sense of finding that 
    "right" person.... you can't advertise for them... you can't find a 
    listing anywhere that says "Right People For You Who Will Make a Happy
    Long Term Mate" or anything else... all you can do is relay on luck 
    that you will find that person.
    
    Skip

    Skip,
    
    I think I understand what you are saying about luck, but I personally
    believe there is a lot more to finding a life partner than luck.
    There's a lot of people in the world who are looking for a partner who
    will complete them, somehow make them whole and fill up an emptiness
    they feel inside.  They search for this person, and have no "luck"
    finding the "right" person.  If they are truly "lucky" they will
    discover that the idea of finding Mr. or Ms. Right is a myth.  They
    will discover that no other person can fill up what is lacking in 
    themselves and then begin to look inside themselves to fill the void.
    
    Mary

    Mary,
    
    I'm speaking strickly in terms of compatable life mates.....
    
    Sheesh why does everyone try to make things so complicated?
    
    People can't live with just anyone else... I don't care who says so.
    And finding somone who you can share and enjoy life with is important
    if you're interested in a life long commitment... 
    
    You are speaking of the type of person who feels empty and things that 
    emptiness will go away if the right person comes along.... I'm talking 
    about the right person coming along who helps you enjoy yourself
    inspite of lifes "hard knocks"
    
    hard to explain I guess....
    
    Skip

    I hate to be the person to bring the bad news, but...
    
    Has it occured to anyone that there may be certain personalities that
    are simply not fit for marriage?  I mean to some, long lasting marriage
    come naturally; to others, it is a matter of trying and finding the 
    right one; still others require maturing and change to make it right. 
    But there has got to be an unfortunate few whose personalities are such
    that it makes them fundamentally unsuitable (or incapable) for long term 
    relationships?  In other words, it is not a matter of finding the right 
    other, but you (a generic you) are the wrong one?  Someone may say that 
    it is just a matter of change.  I too believe people can change, but not 
    in a fundamental way; and the older I get and the more I observe, the 
    more I am convinced of this.
    
    Just some early morning half asleep babble at 2am.
    
    Eugene
                                        

    
    RE -1
    
    Eugene,
    I agree with your point. I too suspect that, for some people, if
    they are being true to themselves, marriage is simply not a
    viable option.
    
    Trouble is, the amount of societal pressure around to get married,
    "settle down" and have children is so enormous - it's hardly
    surprising that many "nonwed" people spend most of their lives
    trying to bend themselves into the marriage mould or believing
    that there is something wrong with them for not "fitting in".
    
    I'm beginning to suspect that I'm going to be a life-long
    emotional nomad, passing through many wonderful loves and
    friendships, and settling nowhere....
    
    'gail
    

    >What does it take to live happily ever after?
    
    
         Money.  Lots of money.
    
    
                                   L.J.

    Re: .22
    
    Is that what Donald Trump said?
    
    		Steve

    re .22, .23, even rich people seem to need variety, in partners, 
    sometimes so lots of money really can't be it!  
    
    Lorna
    

    
    
    
    	A willingness to work hard at a lifelong commitment and an ability
    to see past the tough times.
    
    Mike_who_has_3_kids_and_a_saint_I_have_been_married_to_for_17_years

    (.22)  

    >>What does it take to live happily ever after?
         >Money.  Lots of money.
    
    
    (.23)
    >>Re: .22
    >>Is that what Donald Trump said?

---------------------------

Yep.  That's what he believes!  Ya see, now Donald don't have the money
he was accustomed to.  His "LOTS" have left him.  Given the wealth back,
he'd be happy again!

    Some words of wisdom from a marriage counselor (in no ranking):
    
    (1) Take responsibility for your own needs and wants.
    (2) Notice desirable behavior.
    (3) Stress something positive before something negative.
    (4) Blend diplomacy with truth.
    
    More advice from someone who has been married for 16 years,
    and, like other long marriages, has had some problems, but not
    unsurmountable:
    
    (1) Be best friends - You must like and respect that person. Love is
        separate.
    (2) Always keep the communication paths open - If you can't talk
        honestly, then you're doomed.
    (3) Keep your sense of humor!
    (4) Be willing to compromise.  Understand what you can live with
        and what you can't, and what you can do about it.
    (5) Be willing to give 100% always - so hard to do!!
    (6) Be selfish when it comes to your wants, and unselfish when
        it comes to your spouse.
    (7) Don't expect to change any one.  People modify their behavior,
        but they don't change.  
    (8) Understand and accept that everyone grows at different times
        and at different speeds.
    
    

    It takes a lot...
    
    	It takes, honesty, committment, sacrifice, lots and lots of love.
        It takes to think "of the other" instead of yourself, and it takes
        to give a lot more than to take...
    
    It CERTANLY EXISTS...
    
    	My parents had 48 years of happiness that only ended when my MOM
    passed away... I saw a commitment, a respect for each other, that made
    the best role model for me to follow... and do the best I can in my own
    marriage that so far has gone to 27 years and still strong...I don't
    know if we can call it the 'perfect marriage' or not, but if I could
    live my life all over again... I wouldn't change anything.
    
    Is it easy? no, it isn't, it is worth it? YOU BET IT IS!
    

    
    When my grandfather died, he left a public note to my grandmother
    in his will. It said....
    
    "Tilly - if I could fall in love again, I'd fall in love with
    you again".
    
    They were together for over sixty years.
    That comment has always touched me.
    
    'gail                              

    to .29...
    
    That proves that love DOES exist, but we are so committed to our own
    selves, in other words, we are so selfish that we think of ourselves
    first, and IF there is room for others, OK, if not... good bye others,
    ME, FIRST.  Marriage entails a lot of giving instead of taking... to
    "fall in love" cannot be pre-meditated, we can plan to marry, we can
    pplan our own futures, we can choose our own mates, but we cannot make
    ourselves fall in love 'on purpose' we fall in love... when we fall in
    love! and many people never do, we all can get marry, but not all can
    fall in love... why?... I wish I knew!  All I know is that when I met
    my husband I KNEW he was the right person, I never gave a thought to
    the fact that he was from a different country, with different language,
    customs, etc, etc. I married without knowing his country and if I was
    going to like it or not, I left all my family and all my friends behind
    and never gave a second thought.  I never had a sense of loss either!
    I had him and that was all that mattered... I never lost my family or
    friends either, we visited often, (as often as we could) and have had
    27 years of married life plus 2 of courship... that makes a total of
    almost 30 years.
    I cannot say that all of those 30 years have been "a bed of roses" but
    have been good enough to enjoy every day and enjoy and respect each
    other... I guess that is the reality of life... a "bed of roses" or
    "live happily ever after" is more a dream than the ideal reality...
    if we put our expectations too high we'll tend to be dissapointed, but
    if we are ready to accept and deal with our everyday mistakes... then
    we'd be more tolerant to the other half, with less risks of crises...
    that, of course, is my own opinion. (in real life, it works).  Ana