Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    Don't take this as a flame, but rather as a question you must
    SERIOUSLY ask yourself:
    
    	What makes you so sure you're not going to do this again?
    
    I hate to say it, but if you reverse the genders and substitute
    physical violence for verbal violence, then you see a classic
    pattern for abusive relationships.  How many times have you heard
    of a guy who slaps his SO around, she calls it quits, he apologizes
    profusely and "promises he'll never do it again", only to have him
    hitting her again a week later?  Oftentimes the guy REALLY wants to
    stop, but in the heat of the moment he finds he just can't help
    himself.  Such problems are often very deep-seated, and take a lot
    of work to root out...
    
    > My past relationships have either endured these nasty spells (one for
    > several years), or ended just as this one did.
    
    This indicates to me that you tend towards a pattern of this kind of
    behavior...
    
    > I tend to have a wild temper that on occasion turns me into
    > a cross between Jezebel, Shakespeare's Kate of "The Taming of the
    > Shrew", and Scarlet O'Hara
    
    And this indicates that you see this behavior pattern as part of
    your identity.
    
    As I read between the lines of your posting, I get the feeling that
    you REALLY, REALLY want to mellow out so that you can keep this
    guy... but wanting to isn't always sufficient.  I know; I've been
    there.  I used to have several hot buttons... hit one by accident
    and I'd either be off on a rampage or silently stewing for weeks.
    It wasn't until I did some serious introspection that I was able to
    examine my feelings closely and figure out just WHY certain things
    set me off.  Once I knew, I could then set to work disconnecting the
    buttons.  It's taken several years, as well as a lot of help from
    my wife (she's a sweetie!).
    
    IMHO, I think you have to do the same thing; do some introspection,
    perhaps even get counseling.  I'd also be wary of getting into a
    relationship until you sort out this problem... at the very least
    it'll stress the relationship, and at worst it can blow it apart.
    You've experienced that before.
    
    I probably sounded harsh in a few places... no offense intended.
    It's just that in situations like this you have to ask yourself
    some very hard questions, and sugar-coating the questions is only
    going to make it that much harder to get to the heart of the matter.
    
    Feel free to take this up in e-mail if you'd like...
    
    --jim
    

    I'd strongly recomend you stop by the EAP and ask for some adresses
    for the various "violent behavior" groups that are in your area....
    
    These groups can HELP you learn to avoid the abusive behavioral 
    patterns you've fallen into.... There are ways to recognize the 
    problems and prevent them from accuring.
    
    Something else to consider... your relationship with this "Possible 
    Mr. Right" may be over for good.... your abusive behavior happened 
    and there is nothing to make it "disappear" the damage to your possible
    relationship is done.  I don't know if this is a fact you will have to 
    accept or not but you will have to look at the possibility.
    
    Regardless you need to do what .1 suggested look at yourself learn the 
    reasons and "disconnect" from those buttons.
    
    If you are lucky you can save your possible relationship.... if not, at 
    least you've taken a hard look at yourself and realize that it's a
    problem you need to solve!
    
    I wish you well in it, it isn't easy to "unlearn" this type of
    behavior.
    
    Skip

    re .1 .2,
    
    Look fellas, she ain't asking for no help here.  That .0 (with a tone
    full of self confidence) is a kinda public apology or a promise or a 
    hint for the other fella whom I bet reads this notesfile.  So instead 
    of giving advice to her, I am gonna advise that other fella.  Give her 
    another chance man.  No one is perfect.
    
    Eugene (with a loud mouth, but grants the moderator full authority to
    shut it up without prior notice, aka deleting this note whenever he
    feels like it).
    

         My advice to the fella is to punch out of this situation at least
    until she gets some help.  Then, reevaluate the relationship.
    
                                      Greg

    IMO she should get to counseling to change the behavior.  She already
    has seen that it's a part of her behavior - not a once-in-a-lifetime
    fluke - and I hope she realizes that just because she *wills* it not
    to happen again, chances are it will.  Since she seems to really want
    to stop the behavior - hopefully for herself, as well as the fact
    that it can ruin relationships - counseling seems to be the next
    logical step.
    
    THEN after the counseling appointment has been made (at least get
    this far), then tell the gentleman in question that you're getting
    professional help to stop the behavior.  If you're lucky, he'll
    give you another chance, as long as you continue the counseling and
    make progress.  Of course, he may still choose not to deal with it,
    but don't let that cause you to stop the counseling.  This appears
    to be an issue that needs to be dealt with - if not for this guy,
    then for the next one.

    Re:  .0


    	I had the same reaction someone else did -- how do you *know* you
    will "*never*, *ever* act this way again"?  Frankly, when someone
    speaks in extremes like that ("I'll never....", "You always....")
    that's a signal to me that something is going on internally for them.
    And it's an almost ironclad guarantee they won't be able to live up to
    their words.


    	I'm quite sure you honestly feel you'll never do it again, but the
    fact that it's happened before means it's probably ingrained in you
    from somewhere.  I'll bet if you think about it you'll realize that
    your outbursts probably had very little to do with the other person.
    Sure, maybe you were a little annoyed or something but did the severity
    of your outburst match your feelings towards what was going on?
    Probably not.  More likely there was something internally going on for
    you that caused the outburst to be much more severe than the situation
    warranted.  The only way to defuse this type of behavior is to isolate
    where it comes from and root out the source of it.  Good intentions
    just won't cut it.


    	I won't say whether or not you should keep pursuing this
    relationship, but I will say this:  it's much more difficult to work on
    things like this within a relationship.  If you do get back together, I
    think it only fair that you be up front and tell him what you told us
    and then explain that you will work to fix it (if indeed you decide
    it's something you want to fix).  Actually, now that I think of it,
    this might be the *only* thing that will bring him back -- I know if I
    was that other person I wouldn't come near you unless you first *said*
    you intended to fix it and then *did* something about it.


    	I know it's scary to be up front about personal flaws like this,
    but keep in mind that we all have them and if he's the kind of guy you
    really want he'll understand and be willing to give you a chance to
    break the chain.  I know for myself I respect a person a lot who can do
    this.  And if not, you're probably better of without him.


    	Good luck,


    Brian

    I've gotta say I find it difficult to believe one can "will" a bad
    temper away.  Counseling could help, though, i'm sure.
    
    I have a friend who has a girlfriend who succumbs to fits of temper. 
    She has threatened him, called him names, ignored him, forced him to
    make up to her anything she feels he owes her, and has even threatened
    his other woman friends (myself included) if he didn't do what she
    wanted.  He has, either through some sort of denial or realization and
    acceptance, decided she represents enough of what he wants in a
    significant other to continue to share his life with her.  Every time
    she promises it won't happen again, or says "I know, I know, I have a
    temper, I'm trying to control it.", and it still  hasn't stopped. 
    She's not getting help.  But I think if she did get help maybe she
    could overcome it.
    
    I think you can overcome it, but you may have to "prove to him" you're
    really working on the issue, getting counseling, etc.  I hope you find
    peace with yourself, and find your way clear of your temper.  
    
    -Jody
    

    Dear Anon,
    
    There is no pain quite like that of regret; however, there is nothing
    you can do to change what did, in fact, happen.  You have apologized
    and tried to make amends, but the possiblity is strong that you have
    lost the man you wanted.  The question now is what can you do about
    making the changes necessary to prevent this kind of dangerous behavior
    from happening again?  In my opinion, it is advisable for you to seek
    couseling and make yourself deal with the anger you have stored up
    inside you.  Although I have no knowledge of why you are so angry,
    somewhere deep inside you lies the key.  This may be the reason you
    need to open the lock and get past the reasons why you feel this way.  
    
    You cannot change the past, my friend, but you can shape your future by
    changing the way you do things today.  Could it be time to start?
    
    Hugs and Support in your grief,
    Barb

    I agree with a lot of what has been said, i.e. you need to work the
    problem.  But I just wanted to tell you that reading your note (.0)
    gave me a good feeling about you, because
    
        you have the honesty to admit to yourself that you have a temper
    and
        you have the courage to acknowledge its your responsiblity
    
    These are very positive signs.  Most people I've known with a similar
    problem adamantly deny that they lose their temper any more than anyone
    else and when they do they insist it wasn't their fault and say they were
    provoked.  I think you've taken some important first steps to solving
    your problem, but they are only first steps.  You do need to do some
    introspective work on the problem.
    
    Best of luck,
    
    Mary

    
    
    I don't often reply in here, but this hits close to home...
    You can't know in your heart you'll never do it again.  This kind
    of thing is a long-time pattern and doesn't just stop on a dime.
    Theres a lot underneath contributing to your behavior and you're going
    to find yourself out of control again unless you address what's really
    going on.  I used to have a lot of hair-trigger responses and knee-
    jerk reactions and it harmed me in a lot of ways but since it was the
    only response I knew for years, its also taken years to get it under
    control.  Only in the past year or so can I say that I've actually
    done "well" in this area and I've been aware of the damage potential
    for several years.  Its not enough to say "I'll never do it again..."
    I've often felt remorse MONTHS later and felt absolutely terrible and
    still couldn't do anything without a lot of work over a long period
    of time.  There was a lot of anger in me that seemed to come out
    sideways at the person closest to me.  Not a good way to live.  Not
    a good way to sustain relationships.   
    
    Start reading books like _Dance of Anger_ or _When Anger Hurts,
    (Calming the Storm Within)_ and see if any of that pertains to you.
    Then seek a counselor to help you work on things and talk to other
    friends of yours about how you feel about these things.  Best of luck
    to you.
    
    Susan

    Next time you feel like you are going to blow up at someone and loose
    your temper do this...start counting to yourself and when you are
    counting to your self think of the consequences that will happen if you
    open your mouth and hurt someones feelings...you will be surprized how
    it works, it will help you control a bad temper........
    
    
    Lynne

    
    First, you need to find out WHY you're blowing up like that.  When you
    feel like you're about to go haywire, first ask yourself "How do I
    REALLY feel?"  Then you need to deal with the feelings instead of just
    exploding.  What you're doing sounds like "reacting" instead of
    "acting" on your feelings.  Which is something we all do.  However,
    with they type of anger you're expressing, it's extremly dangerous to
    yourself and any relationship you're in.
    
    					Being there...
    
    						jean
    

    re .11
    
    Lynne, I've thought of that. There is still a big trick there, though.
    That is to think to stop and do that before you blow. I tend to
    sometimes not think of it, then...........I've blown even though I
    knew better, because I forgot to stop and get under control......
    
    ....Bob

    To accuse someone of nasty things, send nasty mail, verbally abusing
    the person just two months after meeting that person is not acceptable,
    in my own opinion... much less if there is romance involvement in the
    air with that same person. I don't blame that person if he called
    it quits, as there is no guarantee of ever reocurring again.  If he
    cares, he will be watching for changes in behavior and if satisfied,
    he'll make a move.  

    
                 Temper is a self-feeding, all-encompasing, release of
    feelings that can hurt and destroy just as surely as an ax.  It will
    *NEVER* go away!  It *can* be controled.  The decision is yours to
    make....it will subside....with hard work and a "real" effort to change
    your life.  It destroys relationships and close friends as well as
    pontential relationships or friends.  The *MOST* destructive thing
    about uncontrolled anger (temper) is what it does to you.  As you lose
    friends and lovers you will begin to wonder whats "wrong" with you
    which will make you angry which will cause you to lose friends......
    and on and on and on!
    
                     How do I *KNOW* this?  there I am.
    
    
    Dave