| I woudn't do it... but of course that is my opinion, and since you want
feedback...
A marriage is a long, and FIRM commitment, it is not easy, but it is
not impossible either, I believe we just "throw the towel" way too soon
and don't let marriage mend its weak points... we should put much more
energy in trying to mend, to adjust, to our own families, to learn
their moods (everybody has a temper...) and if we do, and people
arround put up with me, why shouldn't "I" put up with theirs? You love
your daughter, isn't she worth the effort to try to keep her with her
mom and her dad? Would she be any happier with only one of you? would
it be easy to keep on having contact with your "ex", as she no doubt,
will keep seeing and loving her daughter? Would she like it if you fall
in love and bring in a "new" mom who is not her mom? Would she like it
to see her mom with a "new" daddy who is not her daddy?... I don't have
an answer to these questions... no doubt that she will grow up and will
understand lots of things that a child wouldn't, but I would try my
hardest to keep a home with a mother and father and would concentrate
in finding the root of those fights or dissagreements and changing and
adapting and learning AGAIN to do things together, as I assume that you
DID love her and enjoyed each other's company before...
Please give it a try... a long try! talk and share your thoughts with
your wife, ask her to help you achieve a better life for ALL of you,
tell her you want to have a happy marriage (wasn't that your purpose
when you married?) for the marriage to succeed it needs her help and
your help, you BOTH can make it work. And if, after trying hard it
does not work... at least you have the peace of mind that you did all
you could, and who knows, maybe the effort of BOTH did improve the
daily situation as to make it worth going on...
I don't know, all I can say is that to keep a marriage going you need
to work hard at it, but honest to God, it is worth every bit of the
effort! (take it from a person who's been there over 26 years... I know
what I'm talking about). Please don't give up too soon
Best luck,
Ana
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| re: .0
I think that it is important that you make decisions that are
*your* decisions, i.e., not doing things FOR someone else, whether
that's your child, your spouse, parents, etc. Do not stay in
the relationship "for your daughter's sake" unless it is something
you really want to do (the guilts, resentments, etc. arising from
doing things out of negative ambition [any ambition that isn't
your own] are potentially far more devastating than a separation
might be.)
The following was sent to me last summer...I don't know if it
has already been entered in here or not, but I do think that lots of
what it says is very valuable.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
From "Stage II Recovery - Love After Addiction" by E. Larsen.
An individual can occupy only three places in a relationship: In, Out or
Wait.
*In* means that both individuals want to be in the relationship and are
working in a constructive way to build the trust and hospitality necessary.
*Out* means that one or the other or both - it takes only one - has decided
to get out. For whatever reason or set of reasons, one partner has "fallen
out of love" and does not want to be or is not willing to try to be in the
relationship. No matter how much you may love someone who chooses Out, if
that is the choice, you do not have a choice about being In. If your
partner is Out, then so are you; and your choice here is not about the
relationship but about your reaction to your partner's decision. You can
choose to continue to chase them, trying to force your partner to choose
In, you can choose to remain depressed and bitter, you can choose to
withdraw into isolation and separation for the rest of your life. Or you
can choose something else. You can choose the opposite. No matter how
unfair you think it is, no matter how justified you are in being bitter or
withdrawn, no matter how hard it is to let go and move on, you CAN choose
to do just that.
*Wait*, the third option, is a valid choice. Wait means I know I am not
happy now, I recognize that my needs are not being met, and I am not
willing to live this way forever, but neither am I willing or ready to walk
away. So I choose to gamble. I choose to stay right here doing what I can
to create and environment most conducive to my partner's growth and change.
This is a valid choice, but many people subsconsciously choose willed
confusion instead. They seem to stumble around, not knowing why things are
the way they are or what to do about it. Confusion, of course, is a
marvelous way to avoid decisions. If we are confused enough, how can
anyone, including ourselves, expect us to make a decision? But confusion
hurts, and when we choose it, we sacrifice all power to influence our loved
one.
Choosing Wait in a conscious, up-front, straight-thinking way is infinitely
superior to choosing willed confusion. When we choose Wait, however, we
own that it is temporary, since it cannot go on forever; and we own that by
choosing it we retain our own power - it is our decision to be here, so we
should stop complaining about all that is wrong in our relationship. If it
gets bad enough and we are no longer willing to put up with it, we can
always choose Out. It's up to us.
If you are stuck in Wait, you can still keep busy. Doing what? You can
(1) understand (2) decide (3) work your own program (4)refuse to enable or
seek revenge (5) create a crisis, or (6) if it is over, walk away and never
look back.
*Understand*
It has been said that no one *wants* to be a jerk. If you are in a
relationship with someone who does not play fair and in so doing causes you
much pain, understand that there are reasons. Not that there aren't also
choices, but there are reasons. The more effort you exert to understand
those reasons - family of origin reasons, life experience reasons - the
more beneficial it will be.
This is not to say, of course, that the more you understand the more you
should be willing to accept intolerable behaviour. No. But the more
understanding you possess, the better equipped you are to act in a way
that might help.
Also, the more understanding you gain, the less angry you may become. As
irritating and frustrating as your partner's behaviour may be, at least you
see a reason for its existence. From your new perspective, you may be
better able to say something in a different tone of voice, with a look in
your eye that encourages rather than rejects.
*Decide*
Again, it's important not to allow yourself to be a victim who has no power
and no ability to make decisions. You can decide In, Out or Wait. You can
decide how long you are willing to Wait. You can decided what it really is
you want for your life, you can decide what it is costing you and will cost
you if you refuse to decide. You have many, many choices. All of them -
when you make them - can empower you.
*Work Your Program* [This the way it is written - aj]
More will be said about working your own program in the next chapter.
Basically, it means to take care of yourself. There is no greater gift you
can give your partner and no more powerful thing you can do for your
relationship than to be as healthy as your possibly can be. How effective
you are in encouraging good in your relationship is directly proportional to
the degree of serenity and balance you possess.
When we are in pain our first impulse is to withdraw and retreat, to stop
doing everything that gave us pleasure before. We discontinue hobbies,
overlook friends, and neglect having fun. But the more depleted we become,
the less we have to give.
To take care of yourself you need to be willing to ask the tough
questions. Self-delusion is not gift to yourself. If you have chosen
Wait, regularly as yourself these questions: Is this where I want to be?
Is all this uncertainty worth it? Is this where my partner wants to be?
How long am I willing to Wait?
*Refuse to Enable or to Seek Revenge*
While you're in Wait, it is difficult not to choose one of these paths.
More common is to switch back and forth between the two, creating more
confusion and conflict as you do so.
To "enable" means to be overly willing to do anything to keep your partner
happy. Often in response to the panic you may feel that your relationship
may end and you may end up alone. Enablers will make excuses for and
accept excuses from their partners. They will accept intolerable behavior,
smile when they wan to cry, and refuse to look honestly at the direction
the relationship is going. Whenever Enablers enable they send out the
message that whatever their partner choose to do is okay; there will be no
consequence. By continuing the behavior that got them in Wait in the first
place, Enablers create all the more pressure and confusion.
Another option during Wait involves the opposite behavior; to quit trying,
but not to choose Out. And what do people do who stay stuck in Wait when
the relationship has ended? They get revenge. The ways of getting
revenge, of course are endless. Sly putdowns, cynicism, deliberately
choosing anything that's contrary to what the partner says or does.
Revenge is a game, like all the other; and game responds to game.
*Create a Crisis*
Getting out of Wait and into In or Out often requires a crises, or
confrontation. Someone must say "It's over" or "I am not willing to live
this way any longer. Here is what must happen or it is over".
Creating a crisis is a last ditch effort. Don't do it unless you are
certain you can live with the consequences. here are the four phases you
much act out to successfully create a crisis:
1. State your demands clearly and specifically
2. State the consequences clearly
3. Put a monitoring system in place (talk!)
4. Make sure you consistently apply the consequences.
The last point is not easy, just essential. You must be willing to follow
through and live with the consequences you determine in advance. Thus
people in Wait have an enormous need for a support system and a personal
program for growth. It takes a great deal of strength to create a crises
and stick with the consequences. Even though you may know right down to
your toes that what you're doing is both necessary and right, being right
doesn't make it easy.
If you have created a crisis or have come to the realization that it is
over, then the only step possible is closure. Closure means you have
chosen Out. It doesn't mean maybe. It doesn't mean the door is open a
little. It doesn't mean "Unless there is change I am finished". All of
those may be valid, but they define Wait. When you know it's over or when
you choose it to be over, the only fair, sane decision left is OUT. Out
means the relationship is dead.
Out does not mean you still don't care about the other person. It doesn't
mean that all the feelings are dead, though they may be. What it does mean
is you are no longer involved in the relationship. Closure means that with
all the sadness and grief that may accompany it, you are no longer willing
to try, that the door is shut, and that you are looking forward with your
life.
If you have remained emotionally attached to your partner and your partner
wants out, chances are they may offer to still be friends. In what seems
to be a spirit of forgiveness and maturity, you may be invited to stay in
touch, have coffee once in a while. Beware - if you are emotionally
attached, you cannot possibly have periodic contact with this person and
still find freedom. After enough time has passed maybe you will, but not
now. Such offers are more often than not an attempt to soothe feelings of
guilt not an attempt to be friends. If friendship is the issue, be a
friend to yourself first. Refuse to put yourself in a lose-lose situation
where your heart can break a little more.
There is nothing easy about Out or Wait, and certainly nothing easy about
getting closure, but it's important not to do or believe in these things that
will make the experience even harder than it already is. The sooner we
start to heal, the sooner we can get past the painful present and work for
a better tomorrow. I hope these suggestions will speed up the process.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Frederick
|
| I normally do not offer advice, but this struck me as interesting since I found
myself in the same position several years ago. What I think I will do is give
some of what happened to me and you can take it for what it is worth.
I had been married for twelve years and found my self in a relationship that
was eighter tears, negative emotional excitement, or cold war. The bottom line
was that neighter of us were happy. The kids were always in the four front
of the situation and we were always "trying again" for them with my ex telling
me that divorce would be toughest on them. Well I was having to travel a lot
which gave me a lot of time to reflect and sort things out. I decided several
things. First I wasn't happy and it showed in the way I dealt with my ex and the
kids. Kids means three wonderful loving daughters who didn't understand why
the dad that they loved didn't seem to like them very much. Second, I was
married a long time. One one hand it would seem that that wasn't something that
should be thrown away, but at the same time if it wasn't going to work out then
it was time to make a move so that both myself and my ex might have time to
pick up the pieces, get some help, and maybe find another lifelong mate,
something we both still want. Third, my situation was starting to affect my
work, friends, and health.
What did I do. After evaluating it for several years I have decided that I am
much happier (Except for the the single life BS), I have new very close friends
and the best part. My kids are happier and we are close again, and my ex and I
are friends. Would I ever go back to her. No, why try to ruin a great friendship
again. I pay excess child support every month and I put my ex through college so
that she could provide a secure place for my daughters to grow up in. I don't
like not being a daily part of thier lives, but it is worth it for me. Would I
do it again or would I try to work it out. That is a hard question. To resurrect
a bad relationship takes total commitment and understanding from both parties,
With help from a professional source. When you need advice on how to work on
your car you call a mechanic because eighter you can't fix it or have failed, so
relationships are not really too different. If you can't seem to fix it them
find someone who can help you. It is important that you both go with the
attitude that it is a joint problem and not "Her problem".
For my it has worked out the best way I think it could have, but my ex really
had some problems with it for a while afterwords. She went to counseling at the
college and we had the kids attend some workshop which helped them. I feel like
if we couldn't be the best at marriage, then maybe we could be the best at
divorce.
Good luck my friend and be careful.
Brett Berg
|
| WoW.....I am in the exact same situation, only I have been married for
12 years. We got married really young (19) and now have a beautiful son
(4 1/2). We have both lost the trust we once had and are definitly not
happy together anymore. Like so many, we do not want to hurt our boy in
any way, shape or form, however I am coming to the conclusion that life
would probably be better for him if we were apart.
I feel I still love my wife, but only when we are apart. I also feel
that we are trying harder to have an amicable seperation than we did
with making our marriage work, but c'est la vie!! We seperated for
about 1 1/2 months very recently, but are now under the same roof to
work out all the details. (i.e. finances, custody, etc...) After she
came back she felt we should give it one more shot, but I feel her
reasons are not the right ones and she is doing this out of guilt. I
have never actually lived on my own, and nor has she, and feel that we
both have to do a little growing up.
This is the toughest spot I have ever found myself in, and like
yourself, I am at a total loss as to what to do.
I know this note is not much help, but I thought you would like to know
that you are not alone!!!!
Regards from the great city of Ottawa Canada
Mike
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