| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 580.2 | The "me generation" lives on... | HYDRA::ECKERT | Jerry Eckert | Sat Sep 17 1988 19:53 | 2 |
| Some people derive the same satisfaction from sharing that others
derive from possessing.
|
| 580.3 | | BLITZN::BRUNO | No more Bush-league presidents! | Sat Sep 17 1988 20:05 | 5 |
| Well, the part that knocks marriage didn't thrill me (since
it is still something to consider, for me), but on the whole, it
was a pretty inspiring piece of thought.
Greg
|
| 580.4 | thanks, carla | DPDMAI::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a Liberal | Sat Sep 17 1988 20:20 | 6 |
| i, too, was looking *so* forward to complementing you on your writing,
carla...
thanks for sharing that...it gives me some hope.
tony _who_just_became_single_and_is_a_whole_lot_scared_
|
| 580.5 | Double Whoops | BSS::BLAZEK | Dancing with My Self | Sat Sep 17 1988 21:10 | 6 |
| re: .1
Even plagiarizers aren't perfect. ;-)
Carla
|
| 580.6 | pepsi -- for the "me" generation | HACKIN::MACKIN | How did I get here? | Sun Sep 18 1988 04:57 | 15 |
| I don't agree with that article. My first impression was that the
author hasn't completely grown up yet and was trying to justify who
s/he is. Definitely too much "me, me, me."
While it's idealistic, I see the concept of "marriage" as a stepping stone
in the growing up process. Instead of leaving when things get tough,
if you are married you have to deal with things instead of running away
from them. This means much more personal growth and introspection than
you get from simply dating someone and then breaking off when things
aren't going so smoothly.
Of course, in this day and age we see much more of the "cut and run"
approach to marriage so maybe this isn't very accurate. Marriage
might not be much different than living with your SO. In which
case, why bother?
|
| 580.7 | different drummers...8*) | NEXUS::M_MACKEY | Sing everything you see... | Sun Sep 18 1988 05:44 | 48 |
| re: .0 "Whoops, I'm Single" (the article)
> Useless to raise a small single voice and point out that
> to travel is sometimes better than to arrive.
I feel that whether married or single, we seldom *arrive* - although, sometimes
we think we have.
> The TV advertisements show married life as happy, secure, loving,
> and ideal.
> Only cat lovers and
> women who breed dogs seem to live alone, presumably with their
> animals to console them.
This may apperar to be true, however, it is also true that TV presents a
*singles* life as *beautiful*, carefree, healthy (emotionally and physically),
etc. This is *not* a true presentation of a single's life in *many* cases.
If accepted in context, both sides could be considered to be *false
advertising*.
> If you are single and living alone, you probably have far more
> personal living space than a married person; ....
> Single means learning to live with yourself, but that's no more
> difficult than learning to live with somebody else. Single means
> freedom.
The operative words here are *living alone* and *freedom*. *Single* parents
don't have that kind of *freedom*, generally speaking. I do understand that the
author is referencing single/non-parent men and women. However *single* covers
more than one realm.
> Single means that there could be something wonderful around the
> corner, and you can take advantage of it. Single means you're
> free to fall in love again.
These last two statements are very true and encouraging. The *something
wonderful* isn't always a *someone*, either. A lot of adventure/growth can
take place during *singlehood* whether it's the original or repeat performance.
Thanks for sharing that, Carla. BTW, you *do* write very well, even if you
aren't due the credit for this one. 8*)
Mary Beth
|
| 580.8 | Some good thoughts, but.... | BROKE::BNELSON | The virtue of adversity is fortitude | Sun Sep 18 1988 20:19 | 21 |
|
I think there are some good ideas in the article, but I feel it went a little
overboard in its praise of the merits of 'Singleness'. While it's important to
like yourself and your own company and feel positive about your current
situation, I agree with .6 that being with others is where we do a lot of
growing. I've always believed that in learning about others we learn something
about ourselves. And when you spend large amounts of time with someone, you're
bound to learn a lot about them and in turn learn a lot about yourself. I
think marriage is a big maturing and learning process. At least, that's how I
view it since I've yet to reach that point! ;-)
I also agree with .6 in that we seem to be in the "cut and run" age of rel-
ationships. I've experienced this several times myself (but I'm quick to
point out that I'm sure it happens on *both* sides of relationships). Once,
I didn't even have a *hint* that anything was bothering her before the blow
came. Talk about lack of Communication! I dunno, it's hard to figure out but
I attribute a large part of it to immaturity. Who knows.
Brian
|
| 580.10 | plagiary is the most sincere form of flattery | YODA::BARANSKI | The Rich want Law; The Poor, Justice | Mon Sep 19 1988 07:27 | 6 |
| "Some people derive the same satisfaction from sharing that others derive from
possessing."
Is this a comment on plagiarizing vs. copyrights? :-)
Jim.
|
| 580.11 | | HYDRA::ECKERT | Jerry Eckert | Mon Sep 19 1988 10:43 | 7 |
| re: .10
> Is this a comment on plagiarizing vs. copyrights? :-)
I hadn't thought of it that way, Jim; but it might apply just as
well in that context. 8-)
|
| 580.12 | great article | REGENT::NIKOLOFF | channel one = Lazaris | Mon Sep 19 1988 13:47 | 12 |
|
Carlo
That was great! And thanks so much for entering it. I have been in both
(married and I am now single) and it clearly is a matter of choice. But, I
get a little tired of the bum rap being single gets. And then, there's my
brother who always says.'When are you going to settle down and get married?"
But I always tell him, 'I already tried that!' I'm settling down and being
single now....;^)
Meredith
|
| 580.13 | TELL ME MORE... | YUPPY::DAVIESA | Hot in the City... | Mon Sep 19 1988 14:45 | 8 |
|
Carla,
That was a beautiful piece.
Can you tell us a bit about the author?
Abigial
|
| 580.14 | It works for me... | SKYLRK::OLSON | green chile crusader! | Mon Sep 19 1988 15:26 | 15 |
| re .8 (BROKE::BNELSON)-
> I think there are some good ideas in the article, but I feel it went a little
> overboard in its praise of the merits of 'Singleness'.
More voices in the chorus. As a single I'm often aware that our
society is pushing, pushing, *pushing* couplehood down our throats.
It was a welcome change of emphasis, to have this article present
the other side of the picture. No, its not totally balanced. Perhaps
for you it did go overboard. But it certainly came home for *me*
and the way *I* feel.
Thanks for the article, Carla.
DougO
|
| 580.15 | all summer single | BSS::BLAZEK | Dancing with My Self | Mon Sep 19 1988 15:33 | 12 |
| re: .13 (Abigail)
Don't know much about the author other than she's English.
8-)
There are portions of the article I agree with and others I
disagree with. However, like many other single people I do
grow tired of people asking when I'm going to get married.
I'm quite content living alone!
Carla
|
| 580.16 | | FHQ::OGILVIE | The EYES have it! | Mon Sep 19 1988 16:04 | 22 |
|
Hi Carla!!
Single vs marriage vs ????? We, in the generic sense, usually
feel the pressures of society, no matter what type of relationship
we are in (single or otherwise). What's *in* these days? I feel
what is *in* is what ever we feel comfortable with, within our
*selves*. I've personally grown to a greater degree since
I left my marriage, I'm finally becoming to like myself more. I'm
not saying I don't enjoy sharing my life with a partner. I'm not
saying I feel *good* about being single either. But the fact that
I feel *good* at all is because I like me first.
I'm not concerned with what is vogue as I am with me. And if someone
should ask me about settling down....I would just smile and say,
"I am settled, thank you".
There is nothing wrong with what we have unless we feel there is.
Cheryl
|
| 580.17 | Know Thyself _First_ | BSS::VANFLEET | 6 Impossible Things Before Breakfast | Mon Sep 19 1988 16:23 | 26 |
| Carla,
Thank you for entering that. As someone who's been on
both sides I tend to agree with the article. Don't
get me wrong, I loved being married (I just didn't like
the person I was married to). When society emphasizes
the importance of being in a SO relationship I think
society as a whole suffers. It's been my experience
that I didn't know how to truly love someone else
until I could love myself. Without that self-love and
self-acceptance that follows I really had very little to
give. I was expecting my partner to provide that for me.
I think that when so many people in our society go from
one relationship to another in an endless search for
"something" what they're really looking for is them-
selves.
I've been single for 4 years now. I didn't start dating
again for over 2 years. The time alone allowed me the
opportunity to heal the wounds, clear up the anger at
my ex and at my self and discover that being me was a pretty
great place to be. Now I'm looking for a relationship,
not because I _need_ it to be O.K. with myself but because
I _want_ to share my life with another.
Nanci
|
| 580.18 | | AKOV13::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Mon Sep 19 1988 16:30 | 24 |
| I would say that the author of the piece may have been somewhat
against marriage. I read the piece and thought that they were trying
to justify being single.
All of us are single at one time or another. There are definitely
good things about being single. But there are just as many good
things about being married. Unfortunately, marriage has been somewhat
tarnished by our lack of commitment in recent years. People of
the past used to work out their problems more before they tried
to get out of the marriage. Today, people who have even the slightest
problem want out. I have seen the hurt of marriage (my parents
went through a very bitter divorce about 10 years ago). I have
also seen the loneliness of being single. If the right person were
to come around, I know that I would consider marriage. But, it
would be with the confidence that I was able to be alone and not
fall apart.
The one thing I do dread is growing old alone. Eventually, my parents
will no longer be around. I will still have my 5 brothers and sisters,
but that is not quite the same. Ah well, there are many many years
to go before that becomes a concern.
Ed..
|
| 580.19 | my $.02 | CSC32::DELKER | | Mon Sep 19 1988 17:02 | 32 |
| re .2, .6 - I agree.
re .14 - If you think there's a push to be part of a couple now,
you must not be over 30. Seems to me it's much more okay
to be single now than say, 20 or 30 years ago. And sex
outside of marriage was forbidden, much less living with
an SO!! Compared to the recent past, singles have it made!
After the "me generation" I'd be glad to see a return to
the commitment of marriage.
re .0 - I agree with the opportunities to grow and improve provided
by being on one's own. I think a person definitely needs
to be comfortable with him/herself and learn to enjoy life
while single. It's great to "get the most" out of life
without needing anyone else.
BUT, what's even better is to then discover that there's even
more to life than you ever imagined, when that special someone
opens doors to worlds greater than you ever dreamed could exist
- to discover that with another person you - both of you - can
be so much more than you could have been alone. When you find
that person who shows you those worlds, and who really sets
you "free", then you realize that being contentedly single,
and living life to its fullest was just one (major) step in
real growth. When two people are so much more together than
they could have been alone, and continue exploring those new
worlds that they keep opening for each other, now that's a
marriage. And in my book, the possibilities for personal growth
in that sort of relationship are infinitely greater. It takes
much more skill to live with another person than to live alone.
Paula
|
| 580.20 | my $37.59 | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Mon Sep 19 1988 17:58 | 216 |
| re: .0
very nice!
i like it and agree with it..
==============
:Note 580.2 "Whoops, I'm Single" 2 of 18
:HYDRA::ECKERT "Jerry Eckert" 2 lines 17-SEP-1988 15:53
: -< The "me generation" lives on... >-
:
: Some people derive the same satisfaction from sharing that others
: derive from possessing.
Jerry, i think you are making an assumption that i don't see as being
pertinent. single people DO share! They just choose to share with
a number of different people. They share with a lover or 2 or 3 and they
share with their friends. It's not true for you to assume that they
are just possessing. Also, Jerry, it seems to me that married people
are really POSSESSING each other. Isn't that what marriage and most
relationships are about? "you are mine and you can't date anyone else."
Note 580.6 "Whoops, I'm Single" 6 of 18
HACKIN::MACKIN "How did I get here?" 15 lines 18-SEP-1988 00:57
-< pepsi -- for the "me" generation >-
: I don't agree with that article. My first impression was that the
: author hasn't completely grown up yet and was trying to justify who
: s/he is. Definitely too much "me, me, me."
You are making an equation " marriage = growing up"
that i don't think is fair or true. Growing up, to me, means recognizing
that there are alternative life styles that don't include marriage
that are healthy and happy lifestyles. And, again, you seem to be
indicating a selfishness on the part of the person who chooses
to be happily single over happily married. You are the second
person, so far, to have made this assumption. Could either of you
explain why you feel this way? (note that i'm asking curiously
and not angry or accusing or insulting) I'd like to know why
many people feel that being single is a sign of selfishness?
: While it's idealistic, I see the concept of "marriage" as a stepping stone
: in the growing up process.
this may be true and valid for you and many others but there are many
people who use different stepping stones in their own personal growth
process. I don't have a right to either tell you to follow my path
or to tell you that your path is wrong. Likewise, what works for you
isn't neccesarily right for me.
: Instead of leaving when things get tough,
: if you are married you have to deal with things instead of running away
: from them. This means much more personal growth and introspection than
: you get from simply dating someone and then breaking off when things
: aren't going so smoothly.
A very good point and i heartily agree! On the other hand
there are many relationships (especially those who married too young)
that ended not just because they had some problems but because they
realized that they really were not right for each other. People, while
growing, can grow apart and this shouldn't be construed as negative.
It's ok for people to grow differently and it's ok for them to want out
of a relationship in order to continue to grow by themselves or with
new people.
================================================================================
Note 580.7 "Whoops, I'm Single" 7 of 18
NEXUS::M_MACKEY "Sing everything you see..." 48 lines 18-SEP-1988 01:44
-< different drummers...8*) >-
> Useless to raise a small single voice and point out that
> to travel is sometimes better than to arrive.
*I feel that whether married or single, we seldom *arrive* - although, sometimes
*we think we have.
I agree with that!!!!!
and am guilty of it, too!
You made many other very good points, too...
thanks!
================================================================================
Note 580.8 "Whoops, I'm Single" 8 of 18
BROKE::BNELSON "The virtue of adversity is fortitud" 21 lines 18-SEP-1988 16:19
-< Some good thoughts, but.... >-
:.6 that being with others is where we do a lot of
:growing. I've always believed that in learning about others we learn something
:about ourselves. And when you spend large amounts of time with someone, you're
:bound to learn a lot about them and in turn learn a lot about yourself.
I agree... but the author (and the plagiaror :-) are NOT saying
that single people should NOT have relationships or should stop growing..
They ARE saying that, instead of marriage and growth with one person, you
can choose to remain single and have the benefit of growing with many
people, lovers and friends. Instead of learning LOTS about 1 person (and
having nothing to talk about after 2 years...another topic just introduced
in here, i believe) you can learn LOTS about LOTS of people.
: I
:think marriage is a big maturing and learning process. At least, that's how I
:view it since I've yet to reach that point! ;-)
Yes, it can be. But you seem to be saying that NOT GETTING married is NOT
a maturing and learning process. Though there are certainly people who
don't mature/learn because they are unhappy singles there are certainly
many happy singles who grow/learn at a considerable rate!
an observation: of all the single versus married people i know
i would have to say that most of the married people have stagnant
lives and most of the single people have active and interesting
lives.
================================================================================
Note 580.12 "Whoops, I'm Single" 12 of 18
REGENT::NIKOLOFF "channel one = Lazaris" 12 lines 19-SEP-1988 09:47
-< great article >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
:That was great! And thanks so much for entering it.
i concur.
: I have been in both
:(married and I am now single) and it clearly is a matter of choice.
and timing! after a relationship ends (for me, anyway) i like to
spend some time with myself and my friends. And then, later on,
a new relationship starts and BOTH experiences are growing/learning
and happy ones.
: But, I
:get a little tired of the bum rap being single gets.
odd that the people who give bum raps to singleness seem to take
offense at the bum raps directed at marriage....?
: And then, there's my
:brother who always says.'When are you going to settle down and get married?"
:But I always tell him, 'I already tried that!' I'm settling down and being
:single now....;^)
good! i usually say "i'll settle down when they put me in my grave..."
could someone explain to me the attraction to "settling down"?
I live a relatively active life style and i have no desire to "settle down".
i'm 36 and hope i continue to feel this way till the grim reaper calls.
================================================================================
Note 580.14 "Whoops, I'm Single" 14 of 18
SKYLRK::OLSON "green chile crusader!" 15 lines 19-SEP-1988 11:26
-< It works for me... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I think there are some good ideas in the article, but I feel it went a little
> overboard in its praise of the merits of 'Singleness'.
* More voices in the chorus. As a single I'm often aware that our
* society is pushing, pushing, *pushing* couplehood down our throats.
* It was a welcome change of emphasis, to have this article present
* the other side of the picture. No, its not totally balanced. Perhaps
* for you it did go overboard. But it certainly came home for *me*
* and the way *I* feel.
and it's nice to see so many people in here who understand and agree with
the concept of the article!
It should give us all hope that there is an ever increasing network of
single people who LIKE being single and we can draw strength from each
other when our parents and our married friends push marriage and settling
down on us.
================================================================================
Note 580.18 "Whoops, I'm Single" 18 of 18
AKOV13::FULTZ "ED FULTZ" 24 lines 19-SEP-1988 12:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: I would say that the author of the piece may have been somewhat
: against marriage. I read the piece and thought that they were trying
: to justify being single.
I think the author was just trying to give credibility to being single.
Even your choice of words "justify being single" I find hard to take...
That's part of the problem! Single people always have to JUSTIFY being
single to their parents and their friends...society in general...
and we singles don't want to have to JUSTIFY our chosen lifestyle!
We want to be readily accepted and not frowned upon or considered
social misfits!
: Unfortunately, marriage has been somewhat
: tarnished by our lack of commitment in recent years.
I think that marriage has been less tarnished in the recent past then
singleness has been through eternity.
: People of
: the past used to work out their problems more before they tried
: to get out of the marriage.
And if too people love each other and want to continue the relationship
then i hope they can and do work out their problems! However, most
people get married early, at a young and immature age, and then realize
that they would be happier if they ended the relationship. You seem
to think thath the ending of a relationship is a bad thing. I think that
the ending of a relationship is just a part of what happens in life
and is NOT a bad thing and can be a growing/learnign experience for
both people.
: I have seen the hurt of marriage (my parents
: went through a very bitter divorce about 10 years ago).
: I have
: also seen the loneliness of being single.
Being single doesn't have to be lonely! I've been *single* for 12
years and had 3 wonderful relationships in that time! I wouldn't
have missed them for anything! And i've been very happy during most
of those 12 years.
: If the right person were
: to come around, I know that I would consider marriage. But, it
: would be with the confidence that I was able to be alone and not
: fall apart.
That's good!
: The one thing I do dread is growing old alone.
But even if you are single you don't have to grow old alone...
single people have lovers and friends and they all have each other....
they are NOT alone!
|
| 580.21 | | COMET::BRUNO | The happiest man on earth! | Mon Sep 19 1988 18:09 | 3 |
| Re: .20
GOOD GRIEF!!!
|
| 580.22 | Cynicism - A word too far | SEDSWS::FLOYD | | Mon Sep 19 1988 21:38 | 29 |
| re: * (.21 excluded)
In general I've never read so much pretentious trash in all my life.
"When I was a child my thoughts were of childish things" You know
where to find the rest.
It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this world spending
a lot of time trying to find themselves. Five years ago those same
people "needed space". What will they be doing in five years time?
Is not the cynicism of the article nothing but a mask to cover the
writers inability to handle relationships?
I find relationships hard, communication on a one to one even harder
but I work at it.
As for being single or married what ever floats your boat do whatever
you feel comfortable with but don't try to force your opinions on
anyone else.
What I liked about being single was I could be as selfish as I wanted.
What I like about being married is I don't want to be selfish any
more.
L & K
Jon
|
| 580.23 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Mon Sep 19 1988 21:52 | 13 |
| Re: .22
Um, what are you trying to say?
>As for being single or married what ever floats your boat do whatever
>you feel comfortable with
That's certainly not the impression I got from the rest of your
note. It's sounds like your position is "I vastly disapprove of
single life but I certainly wouldn't presume to say so to a single
person." You're certainly attributing a lot of negative qualities
to singles -- selfish, self-centered, too lazy to put work into
a relationship.
|
| 580.24 | Thats how the mop flops | SKYLRK::OLSON | green chile crusader! | Tue Sep 20 1988 01:54 | 29 |
| re .22- Jon-
> Is not the cynicism of the article nothing but a mask to cover the
> writers inability to handle relationships?
Not from my perspective. That cynicism is a defensive shield against
the societal pressures of people who accuse singles of "not growing
up", of "being incomplete", or of "being selfish". Portraying it
as "a mask to cover the writers inability" is yet one more slam.
Hey, you don't have to feel what other people feel. Perhaps, though,
you could learn when other people *do* share their feelings that
not everybody is just like you.
> What I liked about being single was I could be as selfish as I wanted.
>
> What I like about being married is I don't want to be selfish any
> more.
Well, great. Now we know what "floats your boat". I really do learn
something when you share your feelings in this fashion. But I almost
missed this part of your message because your previous slams had
activated my noise filters.
For what its worth, my philosophy permits me, even demands of me,
that I recognize the value of selfishness. If I ever get married,
I won't be giving that up.
DougO
|
| 580.25 | | RANCHO::HOLT | | Tue Sep 20 1988 07:13 | 11 |
|
re .23
Ooh, aren't we getting touchy...
It is selfish. You can't deny it.
(so what is my excuse? too lazy, too selfish...)
He's also right about rik's screeds.
|
| 580.26 | gee...aren't we touchy... | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Tue Sep 20 1988 13:34 | 40 |
| re: 25
:it is selfish. you can't deny it.
From your perspective, bob, i'm sure you consider it selfish.
But many of us don't feel that way. Many of us feel that it
is a way for us to share and care and grow with many people
as opposed to just one person. You do have a right to float
your boat any way you choose but you really don't have a right
to "slam" others for choosing a different method of floating
their own boat. So, yes, we can indeed deny that it is selfish.
:he's also rights about rik's screeds (?)
well, i'm not sure what you mean by this bob but i do detect
a note of hostility. I also don't see the relevence. The person
"slamming" seemed to be slamming all of us who were positive
about the base topic. You seem to have centered on me and my
responses. I'm not sure why you have this dislike for me, Bob,
but it is not the first time that you have chosen to single me
out for either insults or attacks. Is this an example of all that
wonderful growth you get from marriage?
How can you state that you and the slammer are right?
How can you possibly suggest that what is right for you must
be right for others?
Is that, too, an example of the wonderful growth you get from
marriage?
Does marriage inpede one's ability to think straight?
Does Marriage automatically instill the right to know how best
all people should live?
Once married does god frequent your house and tell you all the
"rights" and "wrongs" of life?
You may choose for yourself , Bob, and none of us will tell
you "that's wrong!"
But we have the right to choose what's right for us and we
shoudl be able to do so without "slamming" or hostility or
accusations of being "wrong" from people who don't understand
our chosen life style.
In the future, Bob, to prove all that marital growth you seem
to espouse, kindly refrain from slamming, insulting or abusing
other noters....
thanks
rik
|
| 580.27 | | REGENT::NIKOLOFF | channel one = Lazaris | Tue Sep 20 1988 15:01 | 9 |
| There is a 'great line' in an old Carley Simon song that goes
" I'll never learn to be just me first by myself "
I think that says alot.
MN
|
| 580.28 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Tue Sep 20 1988 16:40 | 18 |
| Re: .25
>It is selfish. You can't deny it.
*I* am unabashedly selfish; I don't deny that. I am also rather
self-centered (which is not the same thing as selfish). So, all
in all, I'm much happier and much better off being single. But
I get the feeling that single people are "bad" people because they're
selfish and immature and all sorts of mean, nasty things. Since
I certainly don't see myself as being a "bad" person, I don't
appreciate the implications.
On behalf of some other singles out there, I'd like to point out
that there are those who are single because of circumstance rather
than choice. If you want to be condemnatory ("Who, us? Oh, no,
we'll just cast aspersions, but really, who are we to judge?"),
pick on people who embrace the single *lifestyle* rather than those
who happen to be single.
|
| 580.29 | | RANCHO::HOLT | | Tue Sep 20 1988 17:03 | 11 |
|
re the single lifestyle vs. happening to be:
Uh, what is the *single lifestyle*? I thought
that being single *was* the single lifestyle.
I must have no lifestyle, then...
btw - I didn't mean to be snide, but merely to point
out an obvious truth - namely that singles tend to
be self centered (and occaisionally, selfish).
|
| 580.30 | | ANT::P_STUCZYNSKI | Worcesters Best | Tue Sep 20 1988 17:26 | 11 |
| RE: .29
> btw - I didn't mean to be snide, but merely to point
> out an obvious truth - namely that singles tend to
> be self centered (and occaisionally, selfish).
If this is true then I wish I was married...
I think your remark only applies to single females.......(just kidding)
Peter_s
|
| 580.31 | Uhh, not really | BROKE::BNELSON | The virtue of adversity is fortitude | Tue Sep 20 1988 17:44 | 44 |
|
Re: .20
>I agree... but the author (and the plagiaror :-) are NOT saying
>that single people should NOT have relationships or should stop growing..
>They ARE saying that, instead of marriage and growth with one person, you
>can choose to remain single and have the benefit of growing with many
>people, lovers and friends. Instead of learning LOTS about 1 person (and
>having nothing to talk about after 2 years...another topic just introduced
>in here, i believe) you can learn LOTS about LOTS of people.
Absolutely true, but I think (personal opinion here) that the depth
of growth which can be achieved *might* be greater in marriage. I can't
say from personal experience, only from people I've talked to.
>Yes, it can be. But you seem to be saying that NOT GETTING married is NOT
>a maturing and learning process. Though there are certainly people who
> don't mature/learn because they are unhappy singles there are certainly
>many happy singles who grow/learn at a considerable rate!
> an observation: of all the single versus married people i know
> i would have to say that most of the married people have stagnant
> lives and most of the single people have active and interesting
> lives.
I really wasn't saying anything of the kind! My basic point was that
the article (I felt) simply went too far in its statement. Of course people
mature and grow outside of marriage. Again, I believe it's a question of
degree.
Let me also say that I'm perfectly happy being single! I have no
current plans to change that, although if the *right* person came along that
would probably change. As I stated in my first note, I do agree with lots
that .0 said. And I too get tired of the "Why aren't you married yet" stuff
(although most know better now). And I don't necessarily agree that "single"
equates to "me". I just felt that .0 had that "I have a bone to pick"
emphasis and was too overstated for my taste.
Brian
|
| 580.32 | Obvious to who???? | LDYBUG::GOLDMAN | Hear the song within | Tue Sep 20 1988 20:23 | 40 |
| RE .25
> It is selfish. You can't deny it.
RE .26
> From your perspective, bob, i'm sure you consider it selfish.
> But many of us don't feel that way. Many of us feel that it
> is a way for us to share and care and grow with many people
> as opposed to just one person. You do have a right to float
> your boat any way you choose but you really don't have a right
> to "slam" others for choosing a different method of floating
> their own boat. So, yes, we can indeed deny that it is selfish.
I definitely agree! Just because someone is single, does not make
him/her a selfish and/or self-centered person!
RE .29
> btw - I didn't mean to be snide, but merely to point
> out an obvious truth - namely that singles tend to
> be self centered (and occaisionally, selfish).
Hmmm...what may be an 'obvious truth' to you, may not be to others.
I think this is a big generalization. Perhaps the singles you know are self
centered and selfish, but I know an awful lot who are very giving, unselfish
people. I know I'll often think of friends before I'll think of myself.
Being single means that if a friend calls and is in trouble, or needs me, I
can just pick up and go - I don't need to explain it to anyone (as long as it's
not on work time, of course! :-) ). I can only speak from a single person's
perspective, here. And just because the singles I know are caring, giving
people doesn't mean I can generalize and say that singles tend to be caring,
giving people. I also know some people who are married and who are selfish
and a bit self-centered. Doesn't prove a thing.
I guess what I'm trying to say (and not doing a very good job) is
that you shouldn't generalize about people (gee, hasn't this come up in other
conferences lately??). If you believe that singles tend to be self centered
and selfish, that's your right. It may not be an 'obvious truth' to the
rest of us.
-Amy-
|
| 580.33 | Obvious truths are usually neither | QUARK::LIONEL | Ad Astra | Tue Sep 20 1988 20:49 | 0 |
| 580.34 | 1 page...no repeats... | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Tue Sep 20 1988 20:53 | 8 |
| re: 33 Very good!
The difference between the obvious and the oblivious is
.........
a "li"...(if you pronounce this like "lie" it works)
but it might not be true
|
| 580.35 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Tue Sep 20 1988 21:06 | 14 |
| Re: .29
>Uh, what is the *single lifestyle*?
The key word was actually "embrace." Those who embrace the single
lifestyle are not in any hurry to leave it.
>an obvious truth - namely that singles tend to be self centered
>(and occaisionally, selfish).
Everyone is selfish. (Yes, gentle readers, this means you.) Some
people are better at overcoming it than others. The more self-centered
among us are less likely to overcome our selfishness simply because
we don't notice as many opportunities to be unselfish.
|
| 580.36 | The right to reply | SEDSWS::FLOYD | | Wed Sep 21 1988 10:54 | 49 |
|
I note that a few people took offence to my reply... this is not
a bad thing... providing the reasons were honest, thoughtful and
not defensive.
My intention was not to "slam" anybody but to encourage a second
look at the original article.
In my reply I said nothing about single people being selfish only
about my own selfishness. I can still be selfish sometimes.
Neither did I say anything about single people being lazy.
Please read what is written before replying. Thats not a "slam"
just a feeling.
Although I quoted from the bible I am not religious... But I've
read the bible just like I read the article .0.. I don't feel happy
with with religion or the the article. However the teachings of
Christ I feel are relevent to life and I am prpared to use them
as a guide by which to live my life.
I really cringe when I hear people say "I need some space" or
"I need to find myself". I feel, note these are my feelings, that
these words and words like them show an inability to either confront
the truth or to work at a relationship.
Firstly when two people get married it doesn't automatically mean
that they stop growing as individuals, they don't and I don't think
we have. What it does mean is that they also grow as a couple as
well. Please read the same for long term relationships, I don't
remember growing in short term relationships just indulging in a
lot of lust.
Secondly if you are looking for an out in a relationship is it not
best to say "I'm sorry I don't love you any more" or "I'm sorry
I don't care for you any more". If the problem is that you don't
know or are not sure say that but BE HONEST".
I know that I have deviated from the original article but as I said
in .22 I feel that the writer of the original article was inadequate
and not able to handle relationships. Perhaps she had been hurt,
misused and abused, or she may have been looking for a "get out of
jail free".
L & K
Jon
|
| 580.37 | <Giggle> | ELESYS::JASNIEWSKI | Our common crisis | Wed Sep 21 1988 13:13 | 20 |
|
-.1
Bah HA HA - I gotta - You mean to say that people who "need
space" and "need to find their self" are doing so because of their
own inabilities? Whatta revelation! I spose you dont see any value
in "the act" of doing these things. How 'bout doing these things for
a time *before* making a large comittment - no utility in that
either, huh. You could be growing with another person, right? You
happen to grow in different directions but I guess the risk *must*
be worth it!
There is no set time for when an individual is "ready" for a
comitted relationship - that varies as much as individuals do. There
is only confusion as to what to do when with the self. As .0 clearly
shows, there are those who are aware of their own true needs and
are going down their pathway to their fulfillment in their time.
And self-awareness is the key to happiness, whether shared or not.
Joe Jas
|
| 580.38 | kindly follow thy own advice, my friend | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Wed Sep 21 1988 15:39 | 92 |
| re: 36, 22......you puzzle me...
in reply 36 you seem to feel that you've been misunderstood. you indicate
that you did nothing to insult or abuse anyone. you state that you were
only trying to get people to take a second look at .0...
in essence, you come across as warm and fuzzy...
reply 36 from
:SEDSWS::FLOYD 49 lines 21-SEP-1988 06:54
: -< The right to reply >-
:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
* I note that a few people TOOK OFFENSE to my reply... this is not
* a bad thing... providing the reasons were HONEST, THOUGHTFUL AND
* NOT DEFENSIVE
* My INTENTION was not to "SLAM" anybody but to ENCOURAGE a second
* look at the original article.
* --> In my reply I said nothing about single people being selfish only
* about my own selfishness. I can still be selfish sometimes.
* --> Neither did I say anything about single people being lazy.
* --> Please read what is written before replying. Thats not a "slam"
* --> just a feeling.
well, i re-read .22 and i think you shoudl re-read it, too....
you were slamming and insulting and judging all the way through
it...
* Although I quoted from the bible I am not religious... But I've
* read the bible just like I read the article .0.. I don't feel happy
* with with religion or the the article. However the teachings of
* Christ I feel are relevent to life and I am prpared to use them
* as a guide by which to live my live.
? and with which to judge others?
now for reply .22....
======================
Note 580.22 "Whoops, I'm Single" 22 of 37
SEDSWS::FLOYD 29 lines 19-SEP-1988 17:38
-< Cynicism - A word too far >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
re: * (.21 excluded)
* In general I've never read so much pretentious trash in all my life.
pretentious trash? not exactly warm and fuzzy so far...
a definite judgement and insult.
* "When I was a child my thoughts were of childish things" You know
* where to find the rest.
can i assume this is an insult? it sure sounds like one...
* It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this world spending
* a lot of time trying to find themselves. Five years ago those same
* people "needed space". What will they be doing in five years time?
sounds like a judgment and an insult....
* Is not the cynicism of the article nothing but a mask to cover the
* writers inability to handle relationships?
the article was NOT cynical! it was far from it. because a person
believes that a single lifestyle can be a good and happy lifestyle
does NOT make them cynical. But i'm sure you don't understand that.
And, again, you are judging and insulting with this statement.
* I find relationships hard, communication on a one to one even harder
* but I work at it.
how nice. but that doesn't mean that your lifestyle is RIGHT or BEST for
everyone else. why do you feel everyone should live your way? the author
of .0 and many of the rest of us do not wish to force you to live a
singles lifestyle. we just want to have you stop bashing our lifestyle.
* As for being single or married what ever floats your boat do whatever
* you feel comfortable with but don't try to force your opinions on
* anyone else.
but this is exactly what you were doing to us!!!!!!
.0 started a topic. "singles can be happy"
no where did it say "all people should be single or die trying".
yet you and a few others (insulted, i'm sure) took offense and came out
swinging....judging and insulting....things that certain moderators
chastise me for....
* What I liked about being single was I could be as selfish as I wanted.
* What I like about being married is I don't want to be selfish any
more.
you are still insinuating that singles are selfish...
you are also suggesting that you are NOW mature and grown up while
the rest of us singles are still immature and NOT grown up...
All in all, having re-read both .36 and .22 i would have to suggest that
you should be carefull how and what you say and, to prove just how
mature and grown up you really are, you should stop judging others
and just let them live their own lives.
thanks
rik
|
| 580.39 | Et Tu Brutus | SEDSWS::FLOYD | | Wed Sep 21 1988 17:46 | 37 |
| rik
You may have read the writings but it is obvious from your comments
that yet again you have not understood.
I am not decrying single life, nowhere and noway do I imply that,
neither am I saying married life is the be all and end all.
My comments were in response to .20 which I found offensive and
self opinionated. Which I am sure you didnot like.
My only misunderstanding is how you feel that your comments relate
to my replies. You seem to interprate things without truly understanding
them. You are putting forward opinions, to which you are entitled,
that are not accurate interpretations of the written word.
People do not GROW into different people we adapt to our surroundings
which is what you do when you have a long term relationship, married
or otherwise. We do however learn and become more tolerant( or less).
I think it is the inability of some people to adapt which causes
seperation from a partner which is why I cringe when I hear those
expressions. I have seen the same faults in myself and still do
but I do try to be honest and say why I'm ending a relationship
( which I haven't had to do for nine years).
Are we not just Chameleons in the pond of life?
I've got lots more to add but I think the point would be lost (
if it isn't already).
L & K
Jon
|
| 580.40 | I understand plenty, do you? | SKYLRK::OLSON | green chile crusader! | Wed Sep 21 1988 18:05 | 27 |
| re .39- Jon-
For what its worth, I thought rik in .38 was quite gentle in pointing out
just how your statements in .22 could be seen as offensive, slamming,
and put-downs to singles. I'd made some of the same observations
in .24.
Both your last two messages (.36 and .39) seem to repudiate that
intention, but you keep defending the words. Let me ask you point
blank-
1) do you see why we object to .22?
2) if you can see it, will you please stop defending it?
Off-line, I wrote to someone else on this topic. Singles are
unconciously put-down by the very words society uses in everyday
speech, these are sometimes not even concious attitudes- just
implications that "of course" we're all looking, hoping, holding
our breath, for that perfect mate. Some people make *terrible*
life-mate decisions because of that pressure. I find your .22 to
continue that pressure and I'm requesting you to examine your note
in that light, and to please stop doing it accidently. If you don't
mean to do so, then don't say insensitive things like .22 and then
keep defending them and accusing us of reading things into them,
like you did in .39.
DougO
|
| 580.41 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Wed Sep 21 1988 22:23 | 65 |
| Re: .39
An analysis of .22, to help illustrate our objections. Perhaps
it will help you better explain what you meant.
>In general I've never read so much pretentious trash in all my life.
Since you failed to provide any specific references, that's a sweeping
condemnation of the opinions presented thus far.
>"When I was a child my thoughts were of childish things" You know
>where to find the rest.
It's not clear what you consider childish, but the implication seems
to be that you consider the single lifestyle to be childish. Those
of us who enjoy the single lifestyle certainly wouldn't appreciate
that thought.
>It seems to me that there are a lot of people in this world spending
>a lot of time trying to find themselves. Five years ago those same
>people "needed space". What will they be doing in five years time?
In the context of the entire reply, it sounds like you've lumped
all singles into this category of "needing space." It sounds like
you're assuming that they will continue to need space. It also
sounds like you condemn this particular attitude.
>Is not the cynicism of the article nothing but a mask to cover the
>writers inability to handle relationships?
You seem to believe that the author is making excuses for not being
able to handle relationships. The implication is that people who
agree with the points made in the article are *also* masking their
inability to handle relationships. Therefore, people who enjoy
the single lifestyle are unable to handle relationships.
>I find relationships hard, communication on a one to one even harder
>but I work at it.
The implication is that single people do not work at communication
or relationships. In short, they are lazy.
>As for being single or married what ever floats your boat do whatever
>you feel comfortable with but don't try to force your opinions on
>anyone else.
This sounds like you believe that single people (or at least the
author) has tried to force their opinions on you. Also, given the
negative implications of your previous statements, it's hard to
believe that you are so tolerant of the single state. Since you
seemed to come down hard on singles, your request not to force opinions
on others is tinged with hypocrisy.
>What I liked about being single was I could be as selfish as I wanted.
>
>What I like about being married is I don't want to be selfish any
>more.
The implication here is "Ha, I'm more mature than you are, single
person." Complacent superiority is something most people find
annoying.
So, all in all, there seems to be plenty of stuff for people to
be offended by. Certainly, it would be a bit much to expect a single
person to entertain positive thoughts about this reply.
|
| 580.42 | I think she's got you there boss... | YODA::BARANSKI | The Rich want Law; The Poor, Justice | Thu Sep 22 1988 03:01 | 0 |
| 580.43 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Thu Sep 22 1988 05:58 | 11 |
| As a single living in a 4 bedroom house I have all the space
I ever wanted or need especialy when it comes time to clean 8^)
Also that fact I dont have a relationship dosent mean I can't
handle one or work at one. It simply means exactly what the words
imply I'm not in a relationship.
I am single by no choice it is simply a state I happen to be in.
I am also not in a hurry to stay or change but to say that I'm
lazy just because of my current status is wrong.
-j
|
| 580.44 | Murphy's law for singlehood | COMET::BRUNO | Gregory Bruno | Thu Sep 22 1988 12:14 | 6 |
| Well Gort, if you're seen as having a great time being single,
someone is BOUND to try and change your status. If you seem to
be miserable about being single, they're bound to leave ya that
way.
Greg
|
| 580.45 | RE: .44 Ain't that the truth.... | ANT::P_STUCZYNSKI | Simply Irresistible | Thu Sep 22 1988 12:53 | 0 |
| 580.46 | so where is the real growth? | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Thu Sep 22 1988 13:02 | 11 |
|
My impression so far is.....
many of those espousing marriage as a means of growth and maturity
have been insulting, abusive, opinionated and unwavering
while
most of those espousing singleness as a viable life style have
been pleasant, articulate and careful in their opinions.....
just an observation
|
| 580.47 | | COMET::BRUNO | Gregory Bruno | Thu Sep 22 1988 14:51 | 4 |
| Sounds like pretty biased and personal-taste-filtered
observations.
Greg
|
| 580.48 | | FDCV13::DIONNE | | Thu Sep 22 1988 16:02 | 51 |
| well, I've been single and I've been married,
(and I'd venture to say, that probably many of the noters here,
have been also).
if there's one thing I'm sure of - it's that both of these can be
a great lifestyle -- IF, the timing is right. For many years I was
very happy being married, what I discovered is that marriage can
be great, but if it falls apart, than that can be pure hell, it's
the divorcing that's miserable, the really tough part, is not letting
youself become a cynic. I was single for many years before
I married, and -yup, you guessed it, I'm single again... and single
can be great, mostly if you work at it -- neither state is all fun
and games, neither lifestlye is continual bliss, and all of us will
either stagnate or grow in emotional maturity, whether we're married
or not. and IF, the timing is not right, then a mature person will
work to either make the most of the situation or get out of it -
and that applies to being either single or married.
Selfish: Sometimes, I'm selfish, whether I'm married or not, and
sometimes I'm not selfish, sometimes, I'm the most giving person
I know, and while not everybody is just like me, an awful lot are...
"I need my space": So what's wrong with recognizing that a
relationship might be asking more of a person, than they can give?
I think it's better to recognize and do something, than cheat a
person into believing you can give something that you can't. I think
it's pretty mature to look inside yourself and be honest. I don't
think it's selfish at all, - if you can't or aren't or don't know
if you can give what's needed to a partner in a relationship, than
for heavens sake, let them go.
From .39
> I think it is the inability of some people to adapt which causes
> seperation (sic) from a partner which is why I cringe when I hear
> those expressions...
I think it's the ability TO adapt which allows many of us to let
a partner go, rather than stay and make life miserable for all.
well, as I said, I've been married and I've been single. Which
is better, or which is worse?
Both and neither.
Sandie D
p.s., I like the basenote very much, lot's of very good points,
and re:44 Murphy's law for singlehood. -- wonderfully funny and
probably quite true.
|
| 580.49 | warning: pretentious trash follows! | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Thu Sep 22 1988 16:37 | 34 |
| i stopped at .41.....don't bother reading this...
PRO-MARRIAGE NO OPINION PRO-SINGLE
------------ ---------- ----------
.2 negative comment .3 positive comments .4 compliment
insult no judgement
.12 compliment
.6 insults, neg. comments .7 personal comments
no insults .14 comment on .8
no insults
.22 many insults (seemingly) .8 pers. commnts
no insults .15 comment, no insult
.25 insults to .23, .20 .9 ditto .16 ditto
.29 obvious truth: .10 a joke! .20 ditto
singles tend to be selfish
.13 a compliment! .23 ditto
.36 no insults, comments
on .20,.22,.23,.24 .17 no insults .24 ditto
.39 insulting comments .19 ditto .26 ditto
on .38, .26
.20 insult .28 ditto
.31 no insults .32 ditto
.35 ditto
.37 ditto
.40 ditto
.41 ditto
|
| 580.50 | single, with option to buy | COMET::BRUNO | Gregory Bruno | Thu Sep 22 1988 16:58 | 6 |
| Re: .49
Well, heck Buddy, if your list is accurate, I must withdraw
my comments in .47.
Greg
|
| 580.51 | | RANCHO::HOLT | frosted flake | Thu Sep 22 1988 20:16 | 3 |
|
Truth may not always be obvious, but I believe it is
in this case.
|
| 580.52 | painfully so | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Thu Sep 22 1988 20:25 | 4 |
|
and i believe the obvious is true!
:-)
|
| 580.53 | | COGMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Fri Sep 23 1988 00:11 | 4 |
| Re: .50
If arguing/debating/discussing is going to be reduced to keeping
score, I'm not interested.
|
| 580.54 | Live and let live! | CSC32::DELKER | | Fri Sep 23 1988 00:15 | 59 |
| Whew! Re: many previous replies...
A lot of us have been both single and married. I don't understand
why this is such a hot topic, when most of us have been on both
sides of the fence. Seems that some of the singles are pretty touchy,
and take innocently-meant statements as criticism. I'm single,
but I've been married. I've grown more since getting divorced than
I did when I was married, but then I was married to the *wrong*
person. I'd prefer to be married to the *right* person, so I
could continue to grow.
I'm not single because I'm selfish, immature, and those other nasty
things (or ugly); I'm not terribly self-centered. People who get to
know me generally think I'm "nice". I put *a lot* into a relationship,
and I'm not afraid of commitment. I don't "need my space" and at
this point in my life, I think I can grow more with someone else
than I can on my own. I am not offended by either proponents of
marriage or of singlehood. What's right for you depends on where
you're at in your life, and who's around you.
Yes, some marriages are stagnant. Mine was. My next one (out there
somewhere) won't be. The way I learned to enjoy life while I've
been single has shown me the difference between _living_ life, and
letting it pass you by. As I've said before, I think a marriage
should *add* something positive to your life, with new opportunities
for growth and enjoyment of life and love.
I think the lifetime-type of commitment opens a whole new dimension
in "self-awareness". There are a lot of things you learn about
yourself in dealing (seriously) with another person.
Basically, I feel that there are good things to be gained from being
single, and different good things to gain from being married. You
can choose to stagnate or grow in either case. Most of us find
there's a time to be single and a time to be married. There's nothing
wrong with you if you choose to stay always single, or always married.
I don't see the point in getting rabid either way, because in the
future you could change your mind either way. I see no reason to
be insulting, or imagine your hot buttons have been pushed by innocent
comments.
re .0 I felt it started out being quite inspiring, but got
a little strong toward the end.
BTW, I think some of the disgust exhibited by those who find hearing
"I need my space" offensive, is based on having heard it too often
from too many people, and just want to *scream* whenever we hear
that message. We must have been with the wrong people, but didn't
realize it at the time. It came across as a fear of commitment,
and their hemming and hawing, and treating us like yo-yo's seemed
very immature at the time. It becomes a hot button, eliciting
(admitedly) irrational responses.
Live and let live, lend each other moral support, and if you want
to worry about something, there are things a lot more important
than someone's marital status (especially these days!). [We should
expend so much energy on disadvantaged children!]
Paula
|
| 580.55 | | COMET::BRUNO | Gregory Bruno | Fri Sep 23 1988 00:17 | 7 |
| Re: .53
Chelsea, you militant single you. I was so impressed with
your noting that I was gonna ask you to marry me. ...but then, that
would defeat the whole purpose.
Greg
|
| 580.56 | greater_numbers :== we're right | COMET::BERRY | Howie Mandel in a previous life. | Fri Sep 23 1988 01:31 | 9 |
|
Re: .53 CHELSEA
>If arguing/debating/discussing is going to be reduced to keeping
>score, I'm not interested.
Careful. You're taking a separate stand from the herd. That can
be risky business. :^)
|
| 580.58 | I second Paula's motion | BPOV02::BENCH | | Fri Sep 23 1988 12:34 | 28 |
| RE: .54
Paula,
I like your "Live and let live" attitude, but I think it is the
absence of that attitude which makes people so touchy about this
subject. You are correct that some people have taken offense by
"innocently-meant" statements. However, often innocently intended
words have inherent value judgement. For example, the other night
a newscaster discussing the Olympics referred to "... the men's
basketball team.." and the "... girls' volleyball team.." Although
I'm sure the remarks were innocent, a friend of mine took offense
at the use of the word "girls'" instead of "women's". In many of
these replies there seems to be an implication that single people
are immature, selfish, etc., and I'm sure singles have heard it
before and react quickly.
To those individuals who are married and happy, good for you.
To those individuals who are single and happy, good for you.
To those individuals who want to judge or criticize others'
lifestyles, please take Paula's advice. Live and let live.
Claude A. Bench
|
| 580.59 | ? | CIVIC::JOHNSTON | I _earned_ that touch of grey! | Fri Sep 23 1988 13:04 | 20 |
| re.most everybody
I'm a little confused, here. I've read a lot of here referring
to 'the single lifestyle.' I don't want to pick nits, but wouldn't
_a_ single lifestyle be better. The single people I know don't
have a style of living in common any more than those that are married
do. In observing, there seems to be a considerable overlap in
'styles' of life in both of these major groupings as well.
To me, the article in .0 seemed to me to come down pro-SINGLE;
not pro-living-the-life-you-choose. After reading it I was left
with the impression that the author saw no valid or defensable reason
a sane person would become involved in any long-term relationship,
marriage or otherwise. Upon re-reading it, I was still unclear
on whether or not this was a 'defensive attack' on a 'class' that
was perceived as pressuring single people or if it was cleverly
subtle satire.
Ann
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| 580.60 | hey! i thought we were on the same team...?:-) | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Fri Sep 23 1988 13:17 | 17 |
|
re: 53
well, compadre', my intent was NOT to keep score...
my intent WAS to indicate that those espousing marriage as
a form of growth and maturity were the ones reduced to insulting
those of us who they were accusing of lack of growth, lack of
maturity and inability to handle relationships. Which indicates
a lack of growth and mature, and an inability to handle relationships
in our very accusers!
meanwhile, those of us who were, according to the proponents
of marriage, guilty of these crimes, were generally responding
in a more mature manner indicative of positive growth...
i'm sorry you took offense.
i wasn't really keeping score.....just trying to make a point.
|
| 580.61 | WARNING: Read ONLY with a SENSE OF HUMOR!! | CSC32::DELKER | | Fri Sep 23 1988 17:40 | 3 |
| I'm single because all the *other* singles are immature and
self-centered.
;-)
|
| 580.62 | Worlds Apart | SEDSWS::FLOYD | | Fri Sep 23 1988 17:50 | 30 |
| re .40
I think we have a language problem here... American and English.
What we are all discussing are our interpretations of different
notes correct?
My original note was aimed at .20, and was my first comment. As
for .38 I did not feel it was "gentle". That may however be my
interpretation based on a difference in the use of words.
However my main beef is that we all interprate thing differently
and react accordingly, me too, and when we do we accuse others of
saying things they have not. I never said singles are lazy, nor
that I was religous, nor that I have a divine right to judge people or
even that I was in favour of marriage or not.
What ever floats your boat means - do what ever you feel comfortable
with or whatever suits you - not what some have thought it meant.
My interpretaion of that would be " if you like being single - GREAT
if you like being married - GREAT. What could be simpler?
Sorry I've got to leave this short as I'm going to see a bride and
groom tonight. i'm sure I pick up on this tommorrow.
L & K
Jon
|
| 580.63 | fantasy vs reality | SALEM::SAWYER | Alien. On MY planet we reason! | Fri Sep 23 1988 18:17 | 47 |
| re .40
* I think we have a language problem here... American and English.
yup!
* My original note was aimed at .20, and was my first comment.
if you're original note was aimed at .20 how come you wrote this?
--> re: * (.21 excluded)
* However my main beef is that we all interprate thing differently
* and react accordingly, me too, and when we do we accuse others of
* saying things they have not. I never said singles are lazy, nor
* that I was religous, nor that I have a divine right to judge people or
* even that I was in favour of marriage or not.
* L & K
* Jon
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
if you weren't insulting anyone how come you said this?
--> In general I've never read so much pretentious trash in all my life.
and this?
--> "When I was a child my thoughts were of childish things" You know
--> where to find the rest.
if you were saying "do your own thing" how come you said this?
--> Is not the cynicism of the article nothing but a mask to cover the
--> writers inability to handle relationships?
and i find this next one contradictory to your earlier comments
--> As for being single or married what ever floats your boat do whatever
--> you feel comfortable with but don't try to force your opinions on
--> anyone else.
your previous insulting comments SEEMED to be forcing your opinions
on us....
and these don't help your case....
--> What I liked about being single was I could be as selfish as I wanted.
--> What I like about being married is I don't want to be selfish any
--> more.
ok jon...you keep insisting that you didn't make any of the above
statements yet i took them directly from your .22 reply...
care to comment?
xoxoxo
rik
|
| 580.64 | Cool down, people! | QUARK::LIONEL | Ad Astra | Fri Sep 23 1988 18:29 | 20 |
| Whoa! Would everyone please refrain from baiting the others? I
hope this will be enough warning. Thanks.
From a personal perspective, I view a number of the "pro-single"
notes as being "anti-marriage". I don't see any reason why people
have to treat this as an either-or situation.
I also think it's foolish to try to lump all singles into one
viewpoint. It's a gross generalization that just isn't true,
even the least bit.
Lastly, I see that some noters manage to come across in a demeaning
or insulting manner, even though they appear to be "only expressing
an opinion". Perhaps it would be best for everyone to just
talk about what they like or don't like, and don't presume to judge
the motivations of others. (Wait a minute. Didn't I just say this
on the other side of the record? I'd better check.. (ah yes, in
MENNOTES #273))
Steve
|
| 580.65 | chosen, but not preferred | DPDMAI::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a Liberal | Sat Sep 24 1988 19:45 | 26 |
| i am single because i divorced my wife. i suppose that means i
*chose* to be single.
but, i don't think it means i *prefer* to be single. actually,
i think the opposite is true, yet i intend to defer doing anything
about it because i know that i have some *growing* to do that can
only be achieved while i *am* single. in due time, i will allow
myself to become really involved again...
part of the *growing* i have to do involves learning how to interact,
on a social level, with single women and men. after nearly 25 years
of marriage, most of my friends are married, too, and i have to
accept the fact that i need some *new* friends (not meaning that
my old friends are not STILL my friends).
what being single means to me right now is: eating my lunch (a really
good soup that my neighbor gave me) from the pot it was warmed in;
coming home to an empty, quite stark apartment; a lot of aloneness;
new interests to occupy the free time i now find in my life; and
many more changes.
but, each day is bright, full of hope, and pretty happy. i don't
regret the choice to be single, but look forward to that day when
i will find the *right* woman.
tony
|
| 580.66 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Mon Sep 26 1988 05:10 | 9 |
| Thinking about this note over the weekend I came to the following
conclusions:
What I dislike about being single is being all alone by myself
when I'd rather be with someone.
What I disliked about(my) marriage was being with someone and still
being all alone.
-j
|
| 580.67 | Happy Loving Couples | PSYCHE::WILSON | Virgo | Fri Oct 28 1988 13:01 | 42 |
| Happy Loving Couples
I've just been to see my best friend.
He's found another girl.
Says she's just about the best thing,
In this whole damn world.
And he says, "Can't you see
What the little lady's done for me?"
Says so much, he thinks I'm blind.
But the things that you see aren't
Necessarily the things you can find.
Happy loving couples make it look so easy,
Happy loving couples always talk so kind,
Know in time that I can do my dancin' with a partner
Those happy couples ain't no friends of mine!
People say I'm too damn fussy
When it comes to girls.
Happy couples say I must live
In a lonely world.
Wanna be, wanna really be
What my friends pretend to be.
Be it in my own good time!
Being kind to myself 'til I become
One or two of a kind.
But those
Happy loving couples make it look so easy.
Happy loving couples always talk so fine,
Know in time that I can do my dancin' with a partner.
Those happy couples ain't no friends of mine.
You know what I mean...happy loving couples...in matching white
turtleneck sweaters...reading "Ideal House" magazine...
Joe Jackson (from the "Look Sharp!" lp)
|
| 580.69 | waste is a terrible thing to mind | HANNAH::OSMAN | see HANNAH::HOGAN$:[OSMAN]ERIC.VT240 | Tue Feb 28 1989 19:55 | 14 |
|
Uh, the funniest part about that quiz was
> I start to develop a "spare tire" around my waste
Was this a comment about how rarely some single people ever
clean the ring-around-certain-porcelain-vessels ?
Or did you perhaps mean "waist" ?
|