Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    
    
              As a man, I find it harder and harder as time goes
              by to tolerate the average womans tempermental and
              fickle nature.
    
                                                           MATT
    
    
    
    

        Shall I as a man point out that characterizing us as have an
        "aggressive and domineering nature" is about as fair as
        characterizing women as having a "tempermental and fickle
        nature"? Perhaps if that came from a man it would sound less
        bitter than if it came from a woman or than the characterization
        in 520.1 sounds coming from a man.
        
        Perhaps it would also sound better if a man rather than a woman
        suggested that a goodly part of the solution to the problems
        mentioned in 520.1 might best be found through some amount of
        introspection.
        
        JimB.

    
    
         Thanks Jim. I thought it out long and carefully and I don't
        think the solution can be found in your suggestion. I don't
        see a connection in the two.
    
                                                              MATT
    
    
    
    
    

>    How many people here have endured sticking things through? 

    -through what?  cheating?  lying?  drugs?  crime?  violence?
        
>    Or have most made the promise only to find that if the
>    road gets sticky, it's all over?  
    
    -I try to keep it going until it's really and truly dead (and then
    I kick it a few times, just to make sure).  Sticky roads can be
    fairly easily resolved if the lines of communication are kept open.
    
>    What is the breaking point for you?  
    
    -when the love is gone, or the relationship becomes too painful
    to continue - i.e. when the situation together is less than 50%
    productive toward continued togetherness.
    
>    What promises have you made that you find now are hard to keep?
    
    -I seldom make promises I feel will be impossible to keep.  A strong
    relationship is essential - it strengthens your resolve against
    "temptation" of all sorts.  And again - if the relationship needs
    discussion, or needs to grow or change in some way - communication
    is the key to discovering what (if anything) needs to be reworked.
    
    
-Jody
    

    Re: .3
    
    >I don't see a connection in the two.
    
    Try stereotype:
    
    "Tempermental and fickle" is to woman as "domineering and aggressive"
    is to man.
    
    See the analogy?

    
    Seems to me this has been discussed before...somewhere...here...
    or another note...
    
    
    re:  the breaking point....
    
    	Seems that "people" are unwilling to put up with as much
    "difficulty" as they used to!  It's so easy to get out of 
    relationships now that it only takes one little conflict 
    for people to give up!  
    
    	Myra (who's glad she's not "average"!!) :^) 
    

    re .6   Loyalty to another should not be sacrificed because of
           those "first signs of trouble." 
    
            Since a relationship is not built upon a bedrock of
           convenience or sameness, impatience or intolerance of
           a partner's differences is a sign of immaturity. 
    
            Those that don't fight for Love don't know what's 
          worth fighting for.
    
    
                                              Russ P.

       RE: the last two..
       
       	I couldn't agree more.... Granted, sticking by someone has its
       	downsides too (Oh God does it ever sometimes!!)....  We all have
       	our moments and if someone can't deal with that well, I guess they
       	won't..  Myself, I got tired (VERY) of being fickle and saying
       	"Oh, screw this" and walking away..  I now just have to be careful
       	I don't go to the opposite extreme.. (I've never been one to walk
       	a fine line very well.. hehehehe)
       
       						mike

I can usually endure almost anything that happened in the past.  There are
certain things that I will not tolerate in my present.  What usually causes a
breakup for me is being told how the future will be that I cannot tolerate.

I can forgive the past, but I do want to be able to dream of a happy future.

Jim. 

    RE: 4
    
      Communication in a relationship is important, but before there
    can be communication there must be RESPECT and a true definition
    of communication between lovers.  
    
      The biblical definition of love is this (1 Corinthians 13:4,5)
    Love is very patient and kind, never jealous or envious, never
    boastful or proud, never haughty or selfish or rude.  Love does
    not demand its own way.  It is not irritable or touchy.  It does
    not hold grudges and will hardly even notice when other do it wrong.
    
      This means giving oneself totally.  In communicating, it is not
    'surface' talk, "these are your faults, these are mine".  It is
    sharing your total inward being.  It is also being tough enough
    to make your partner accountable for his/her actions, for your
    partner's well being, not your desires.  It is being tough enough
    to keep your partner's respect for you and helping your partner
    keep your respect for him/her.  It is also maintaining respect for
    yourself.
    
       Try some of these: "Love Life for married couples"  by  Wheat
    			  "Love Must be Tough" by Dr. James Dobson
    			  "Maximized Manhood" by Edwin Louis Cole
    
    
    Relationships are the basics for "sticking things through".  
    
     

RE: .10

"It is also being tough enough to make your partner accountable for his/her
actions,... helping your partner keep your respect for him/her."

I have no idea how a person can DO this for another person.  I can TRY HELPING,
but in the long run I can't make someone accountable;  all I can do is refuse to
be accountable for their actions, and you can't do that in a marriage without
leaving them.  Also, how can I keep my respect for someone who won't be
accountable for their own actions?

Jim.

    There IS a limit.  Through better or worse.  In sickness and health.
     Those are very nice concepts,  and I believe in them.
    			*** BUT ***
    I just left (divorce) a marriage that began (the first time) in
    1963.  I *tried* to communicate/love/respect....all those things,
    for years.  I failed.  Finally, years ago, I tried to end the marriage.
     I failed there too.  My wife suffered *me*.  I suffered *her*.
     The children suffered *us*.  We were all mostly
    unhappy/unwilling/unable to make it work.
    
    Now that I have finally succeeded in leaving the marriage, my wife
    professes *all* the feelings she denied before.  The guilt is great,
    the loss is hard to bear, but the future (for me, finally) is *bright*!
    Brighter than it has been in many years.
    
    All the condemnations, the *give it another try* admonitions, the
    expressions of regret; they all add to the *guilt* of leaving, of
    failing....but do not detract from  the commitment to leave and
    start over.
    
    tony

    
    re:  .12
    
    
    Tony:
    
    *You* did not fail - the *marriage* failed.  Lack of communication,
    love, respect, etc. all add up to an inevitable breakdown.
    
    Look at it in a new light and your will not see failure, but growth.
    Growth - from all different areas in your life.  Try replacing the
    negetive terminology, i.e. fail/guilt, with positive terminology.
    You'll feel a whole lot better.....  8*)
    
    Keep a song in your heart - and aim for the *bright* side