Conference quark::human_relations-v1

           !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WOMEN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
           
    no surprises there ;^)  
    
    oh,   you want specifics....   well lets just say I look at the
    eyes first then work my way down and if I like what I see then 
    I look again, but it always starts with the eyes...
    S_Rat

    uuuuhhhh
    no two people are alike enough to establish a precidence
    and if you establish too hard of an ideal
    you will limit your scope.
    
    kerry

    	I agree with the attractive powers that the eyes hold over one's
    own set of eyes.  In fact, I find myself quickly cutting away from any
    sort of intense mutual staring because I'm afraid I'll fall in love or
    at least be temporarily hypnotized (which is not too cool for a married
    man like myself).  There is a psychic bond somewhat akin to laser-beams
    that takes place when eyes connect in a mutual stare, which is infinitly
    more powerful than staring at the sexiest set of buns (which I find to
    be a "safer" form of turn-on as long as no-one catches you looking).

    	Beyond strictly visual turn-ons, I find (accidental) touching to be
    highly stimulating, both in the negative and positive sense (depending
    upon who is involved).  Also, certain voices have a tendancy to lull me
    more than others, however there are just as many which I find myself
    tuning-out to a certain degree for one reason or another.  Scents are
    nice as long as they are blended with an overall appeal; the minute
    a scent stands out as the only attractive feature, it becomes overbearing.

    						-DAV0

    
    I'm glad there are others who find eyes attractive!!  Something
    else I missed putting in the base note is that I like women whose
    weight is proportional to their height, but not so thin that I'd
    be afraid of breaking them in half should one of my "bear hugs"
    be appropriate ;-)
    
    Thanks also for the replies, guys!!  How about some REPLYs from
    the ladies out there?  I don't remember who the now missing .4 was,
    but right now, it's just us males in this NOTE..   Kinda lonely
    without you, ladies!!  Your comments will be most welcome and
    appreciated!!
    
    				Joe

    
    I have to agree that by setting a hard fast set of rules you only
    open yourself up for disappointment... really a shame to make a list
    and then judge all that one meets by the criteria on your list...
    
    Naturally we all find certain things particularly interesting and
    attractive.. 
    
    
    later, gailann_who_says_if_they_don't_smell,_have_half_a_brain,_and
    
    don't_project_a_pompous_attitude_then_give_them_half_a_chance!

    
    

    
    Thanks for the REPLY, ga!!  Perhaps I gave a mis-impression in that
    I personally am not referring to a "hard fast set of rules", but
    just general guidelines for what people find attractive/unattractive
    in others!!
    
    					Joe

    I also agree that if you set the standards of what to look for,
    you will find that you are being constantly disappointed.
    
    I used to hate beards, but after dating a man who had one, I have
    come to love them. Had I said I would only look at a man without
    beards, then I would have missed out of a very special year in my
    life.
    
    If I had said I will only look at men who have the right height
    and weight, I would have missed out on meeting a very high number
    of people, some of whom are very good friends.
    
    I say look at a person for the person, then decide if they can or
    cannot fit into your lifestyle.  I have several people who are net
    acquaintances, that I have never met in person, but I would care
    less what they looked like physically, because I have already come
    to like them for them; not what they look like.
    
    Please, if you are trying to set a standard, drop that standard
    - you'll find life more enjoyable, and you'll find that maybe you'll
    like something new.
    
    	- Gale

    
    
    Interesting that the ladies that have spoken have quite a different
    set of requirements then the men.  
    
    I personally believe it is the internals, not externals, that make
    a person interesting.  How long will the make-up, cologne, dress,
    hairstyle etc. support an interesting conversation??  Can anyone
    who is externally oriented explain what happens when the person
    who attracted them by externals is no longer slim, well dressed,
    pretty etc.??  Do you therefore no longer have an attraction to
    those people??  I find it interesting that the "peacocks" I have
    known generally have little substance worth mentioning.  If you
    need to have a pretty person on your arm/by your side what does
    that say about your self image??
    
    the_wiz
    
    

re. -1
	I think that internals just as important than externals.
    Superficial attraction is just that: superficial.  To rely on
    mere conversational attraction though, is to fall into the same trap.
    There has to be a pyschic bond which encompasses all the senses.
    This is the best way to satisfy both the Id's and the Ego's of the
    people involved (as well as the Id's and Ego's of the cupids involved).  
    "I do believe in ghosts, I do, I do, I do..."

							-DAV0

    
       I happen to agree with the ladies and 16.12 that the internals
    are where it is at. True beauty lies within. What's that saying
    "You can't judge a book by it's cover". It's too bad though that
    in todays over emphasized world of beauty less than beautiful people
    sometimes don't get a chance. I've dated some overly attractive
    women that have been as boring and insensitive as can be. I'll take
    a "plain jane" any day.. Just my experience that's all... 
     
                               Mark
    
    
    
    
    
    
    

    Thank you Gailann and Gale... I've been trying to think of what
    to say about this topic, but you've both summed it up pretty well.
    
    From personal experience, it is a terrible thing (in my mind) that
    so many people are expecting someone to be something they in real
    life aren't.  I've had a lot of "first meetings" with noters that
    have shocked the he** out of the person I met... mainly because
    they didn't expect me to look like I do.  I'm not saying I have
    three heads, or am "badger ugly", but I'm not one of the model types,
    nor would I care to be.  I've always had to rely on my 'sparkling
    personality' because I've been overweight since I was six years
    old.  When I meet someone, I don't have any clear image of what
    they look like beforehand, cause I liked to be surprised.
    
    I fell in love with my husband before we had even met physically.
    (We vowed our love for each other over the TALK utility on VAX/VMS
    V2.5 believe it or not).  
    
    In total agreement with the few other responses that it's what's
    inside that counts, not what's on the outside.  If I didn't look
    beyond the flesh with almost everyone I've met, chances are I wouldn't
    have any friends, cause no matter HOW beautiful or handsome a person
    is, there is always room for improvement SOMEWHERE!
    
    						*** Kristy ***

    Some of you may remember my answer to this particular question from
    that other notesfile that no longer exsists and which I will not
    mention ;-)
    
    Big or little or short or tall
                             Young and old
                                       I LOVE 'EM ALL ! ! !
    
    I also am particularly fond of low, husky voices.           -sunny-

    Among the many (yes, that's right *many*, Sandy, if you're reading
    this) qualities that endeared my wife to me soon after I met her,
    was her wonderful sense of humor.
    
    Don

    Intelligent
    
    Sensitive
    
    Good manners, well groomed, dresses neatly
    
    Sense of humor
    
    Self confident -- in command of the situation, whatever it may be
    
    Adventuresome -- likes to do daring, unconventional things
    
    Loves food

    The major things that are important are inside - sensitivity, sense
    of humor, common interests, reasonably intelligent, a desire to
    live life fully.
    
    Beyond that, I like someone of a reasonable height/weight ratio.
    While looks are certainly not everything, they can help to get one
    noticed.  But then again, there are other ways to get noticed (?NOTES)
    :^).  Many women think I'm out in left field when I am discussing whether
    or not I/they think certain men are attractive.  I often find someone
    attractive after I've gotten to know and like them for other qualities.
    As far as one particular attribute to find attractive, I make another
    vote for eyes.  I agree with the person a few replies back - that
    staring into someone's eyes can have a hypnotic/psychic effect.
    
    Kathleen

    Ah, yes those eyes. I love gazing into someone's eyes. Mine are
    a light green (more of a gray) and they have been known to get me
    into trouble.
    
    Someone once said "The eyes are the mirror to the soul."
    
    Mike

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	Maybe we'll be able to see each other in notes eventually;
    when graphics and imaging software get cooking on all the new equipment
    coming out... who knows?  See you then!

							-DAV0

    	Definitely the eyes are #1 - right up there with the eyes,
    	though, is a nice smile.  

    Of course the eyes.  But re .24, I've been waiting for somebody
    to mention a nice smile, complete with perfect teeth.  Maybe I was
    a horse trader in a former life, but the eyes, blue or (sigh)
    bluish-gray with perfect teeth is a great combo.  Dash liberally
    with some personality & a wide sense of humor...
    
    Jon

    re 25
    
    a nice smile puts me at ease and makes me feel comfortable in just
    about any situation....  of course personality and sense of humor
    are nice in addition to some degree of intelligence....  :-)
    
    brown-eyed_Billie
    

    I've seen some discussion in this file about whether the external
    traits are more or less important than the internal (character).
     I say the external is a REFLECTION of the internal, that is, someone
    who looks great (my definition only, of course) feels good about
    themselves and that's who I want to be with.
    
    My definition of "looks great"?  Clothes and hair style that set
    him apart from the mundane -- but not "freaky".  
    
    I also love bright eyes and a shining smile.
    
    Most people think I'm "picky".  I just want the best, because I
    deserve it.
    
     --  Sheila  

    I find this conference somewhat soft.  What turns people on is what
    turns them on period.  How can comparing what turns someone else
    on change your own iterests?  Frankly - I'm more turned on by being
    with people than reading about their turn-ons.
    

re: -1,

	I know what you mean, I can't seem to persuade this terminal to
    go to bed with me either - no matter how long I stare at it!

    perhaps you're not trying *hard* enough....

    re: .27
    
    I find it extremely difficult to believe the a persons externals
    can be taken as a reflection of its internals.  Quite the contrary I believe
    too many people cover internal deficiencies with external affectations.
    Having spend a major part of my life living in Sin City I have been
    taught ( rather painfully ) that images can differ considerably from 
    substance.  Americans have been inundated with the marketing hype
    about " Beautiful People ". No calvins/No brookes etc.  Society
    demands you look beautiful, only you can demand you are beautiful.
    
    the_wiz
    
    
    

    
    
    re: .31
    
    Right on wiz! In the event my externals matched my internals I would
    appear as a green-eyed blond, with hair that flowed down my back,
    I'd be 5'5", 105 lbs. in a red-checked western shirt and extra tight
    jeans. My smile would rival any toothpaste ad ever presented and
    an aura would be visible around me.
    
    Alas, my internals do not match my externals.......
    
                               -sunny-

    
    Great to have you back, Sunny!!
    
    RE: .32 - Based on the SUPER internals I know you have, your
    description of yourself if your externals matched your internals
    is, by far, an underestimation!!
    
    				Joe <aka HuggyBear>

    RE .27 (My own):
    
    Let me see if I can explain myself more clearly:  Someone who is
    attractive on the inside will atuomatically and naturally be attractive
    on the outside.
    
    P.S. It's been fun watching the backlash!

    
    
    <FLAME ON>
    
    RE. 27, .34
    
    Your definition of external attractiveness in .27 is of someone
    who emulates VOGUE or GQ.  Perhaps I am mistaken, for this is only
    my opinion, but I don't see where a kind heart reflects itself in
    Giorio Armani clothes or hair styled by Josele.  People who have
    that inner beauty usually care not wether they are dressed in vogue,
    they are more concerned with how they can positivly affect society
    
    It would have been justice for God to have given those internally
    beautiful people beautiful externals.  ITS TOO BAD HE DIDN'T !!
    They deserve to be gorgeous and they are, but not in a way our
    society has defined, in a spiritual way we should all respect.
    
    Beauty is only skin deep, and ones soul is never in its skin.
    
    If you deserve the best you had best figure out where to find it!
    
    <FLAME OFF>
    
    the_wiz     who_says_remember_Mommy_Dearest!!
    
    
    <FLAME OFF>
    

    I agree with .27 in that internals and externals are related in
    a small way.  My experience tends to also support .31 (beautiful people
    sometimes being bad inside).
    
    I think that externals tend to drive the development (or lack thereof)
    of the internals.
    
    Beautiful people are often popular because they are beautiful.  Because
    they are beautiful, new people are always attracted to them.  They
    don't have to work hard to get friends or to keep friends.  They
    never have time for all friends that they attract.  They can't get
    to know them all very well.  If they should loose a friend, that's
    OK.  There are always more.
    
    The more plain and less than plain are often not real popular. 
    When they are popular it is because they have learned what it
    takes to be a real friend to people.  They have to work to make
    new friends, and work to keep them.  They can't afford to loose
    a close friend because they may be hard to replace.  They learn
    more about how to keep from hurting people to keep their friends.
    They get to know their friends better because there are fewer of
    them and the friendships last longer.
    
    All in all, I find that the more plain people make better friends
    because they are willing to put as much work into a friendship as I am.
    At the same time I also like to have a few beautiful people as
    friends so that I can help them become better friends.  I find
    that I do not get too much back for it though.
    
    I don't know that I would want to be beautiful.  Beautiful people
    have to spend a lot of time rejecting most of the people they
    attract.  I don't expect that I would find it any easier than
    they do.
    
    						MJC

RE: .36
    
    Maybe it's a nit, but you use the term "friend" pretty loosely.
    Perhaps distinguishing between an "acquaintance" and a "friend"
    would make your point clearer.  If you're (a) so busy with the people
    you attract, or (b) so wrapped up in yourself that you never learn
    to do what it takes to turn an acquaintance into a friend, then
    you end up never forming close relationships and just drifting through
    life unattached.
    
    					(^:	Positive Pat	:^)

    Sounds like this file is getting way off the track.  It started
    somewhere near the beginning when some replies began to differentiate
    between external and internal factors as attractants.  I think they
    missed the point.
    
    Unless you're talking about specific sexual techniques, I think
    the question 'what turns you on' ASSUMES that you're dealing with
    strangers.  The deeper qualities that you come to appreciate once
    you get to know someone is something else entirely.  External qualities
    attract, internal qualities sustain.
    
    What turns you on means what attracts you to people? What makes you 
    WANT to get to know someone and explore their deeper qualities?

    Every encounter has a beginning, and that beginning is the appraisal
    of the characteristics of that person that are available to us.  When 
    we meet a new person, the first characteristics that are available for 
    our perusal are physical ones, i.e. looks, voice, clothes, scent,
    etc.  I don't think it's realistic to assume or even desirable to
    pretend that we don't physically appraise new people we meet.  We do
    it naturally and automatically in varying degrees depending on many 
    factors, (our relative ages, sexes, status, the reason we're
    interacting, our mood, etc).  
    
    Drawing a parallel to computer processing, we appraise the other 
    person subconscously, running through the available data and storing 
    a 'yes' or a 'no' to each item.   Run up enough 'yeses' and the
    stranger falls into the "let's get to know him/her better" category.
    
    So what turns you on?  Kristy, why did you write that SECOND note
    to your now-betrothed?  And to the noter who met his mate at a picnic
    in Iowa, why did you think it was cute when this stranger stuffed
    a bratwurst in your mouth?  Because there was "something" about
    these people you responded to.  Something in these strangers "turned
    you on" and made you receptive.  THOSE are the insights I was looking
    for when I saw this note and anxiously settled in to read it.  Per-
    ception at that level is subtle tho and most every noter missed
    it.
    
    Those are the things that turn you on.  Had you never gone further
    than the first or second meeting, you would most likely have always
    remembered that person.  Why?
    
    Sandy

    re .38:  I can be attracted to a person, but not be turned on by
    them.  When I think of being turned on, I think of being sexually
    aroused, which in general, I think most everyone else does too. 
    Tuned in, might be a better phrase to use.  Like I said before,
    I knew what my 'now-betrothed' was like personality-wise before
    I ever laid eyes on him.  By the time I met him, I honestly didn't
    care what he looked like because I knew I loved him and it didn't
    matter what his outward appearance was.
    
    As for what attracts me to a person, it's somewhat difficult to
    judge where noters are concerned as I usually get to know them through
    the network before I meet them, and if I've found them interesting
    electronically, then I know I will find them interesting when I
    meet them face to face.  And I can say that I DON'T CARE WHAT A
    PERSON LOOKS LIKE.  I'm sorry if you can't handle that.
    
    					*** Kristy ***

    Gee, Kristy, no offense intended.  I wasn't trying to force anyone
    to come up with SOMETHING physical about their chosen ones. 
    
    Actually, in talking about the "meeting a stranger" process, I was
    not taking into consideration noting.  I was assuming that most
    people don't have the luxury of learning the more important aspects
    of a person before meeting them.  This is a whole different situation
    here.
    
    I was referring to meeting a complete stranger for the first time.
    That's all.  There's no way you can know and respond to the special
    inner qualities of strangers, and I think anyone who tried would
    be considered weird.  Also, in life today we meet lots of new people
    all the time and it's simply unrealistic to expect to spend time
    getting to know each and every one.  There is SOME initial screening
    process that we all use to determine who interests us enough for
    deeper study, and who does not.  That's what I interpreted as "what
    turns you on".
    
    I also interpreted it as a lighter question than "what sexually
    arouses you".  So did all the other noters.  No one seemed to outline
    specific acts, techniques or settings, so that reinforced my perception
    of the question.
    
    So sure I can handle the fact that you love your guy for what he
    is rather than what he looks like - I would NEVER suggest that love
    should be any other way!  I just didn't think we were discussing
    love...
    
    Sandy
                                                                

    
    RE: .38 & .40
    
    Sandy, you "hit the nail right on the head" as far as your
    interpretation of what the title of this NOTE is intended to ask.
    Perhaps when I wrote it, it would have been better for me to give
    it another name, but what I DID mean is "what attracts you to another
    person [stranger] initially"!!  Thank you for understanding that
    and your attempt to get it "back on track"!!  This is NOT in ANY
    way to belittle any of the other REPLYs in this NOTE, just to clarify
    what my intent in writing it was!!
    
    Yes, inner qualities DO mean a LOT to me, more than exterior ones
    (as those of you who know me realize), but I also know that I find
    myself attracted (interested in a non-sexual way) in certain females
    who I've had NO opportunity to get to know about before by something
    in their looks/actions/etc.  What I am referring to are some of
    the things already mentioned in this NOTE - obviously female (for
    me), eyes, age, hair, etc., etc.  No argument that it's the "inner
    person" that I mostly seek to know, but in all honesty, I think
    all of us will admit (truthfully) that our heads have been turned
    at some time, somewhere, by a person of the opposite sex, without
    sex as being the motivating factor, by SOMETHING about that person.
    It is that "something" that I am interested in knowing what others
    find attractive and I feel that could enlighten us all!!
    
    So, enough of my .02 - I hope what I have said here will eliminate
    any more controversy in this NOTE - no harm is intended, REALLY!!
    
    				Joe

    The thing that turns me on most when I see a woman is an air of
    self-assurance.  Someone who will look you in the eye, has a smile
    on her face and stands up straight.  Oddly enough, most of the
    women whom I find attractive in this manner are NOT conventionally
    beautiful.  When I've met someone like this, and gotten to know
    her a bit better (unfortunately, to date, only in a business context),
    I find that my initial impressions are correct and I continue to
    be attracted.  Women who defer all the time, or who "play dumb",
    seem less attractive, no matter how pretty they are.
    
    				Steve

I have just gone through 43 REPLY's to this note and have finally
formulated a stock answer that should please most participants.
And if --by the way-- you get the impression I am not convinced
of the sincerity in most of these replies, then --by gosh--
you're absolutely right.

So, here goes:

	What really attracts me in a woman I've just met
	for the first time is her inner warmth, her radiant
	intelligence and her IQ.

	I look for other redeeming qualities as well, such as
	her ability to recite Shakespeare and selected verses
	from the Bible, her balanced personality, her generousity
	and her sense of bubbling humour, which I can usually
	detect immediately.

	I am never conscious of her looks, not to mention her
	other anatomical details.

Seriously, though, I hate to disappoint yo'all, but the facts
don't support that bull. If memory serves, a different opinion
was presented in Psychology I, a required course at Northeastern.

The second or third week of that course touched on the question
of "what makes people like others?" It turns out that --even
though most people CLAIM otherwise-- "liking" stems from physical
attraction, with very, very few exceptions. Most people equate
"pretty" to "good hearted" and "wise", believe it or not. This
has been proven by rigorously conducted scientific experiment.

As a saving grace, it was also discovered that people CONTINUE
to like those that are similar, not neccessarily those that are
good looking.

You disagree? See "Introduction to Psychology" by Hilgard,
Atkinson and Atkinson (Sixth eddition) - start reading at page
529, Interpersonal Attraction.

-- Ron

    Re:  .44.
    
    Unfortunately, you seem to have proved once again that Psychology
    is a highly theoretical science  --  which, when put into practice,
    doesn't work.
    
    "Pretty" doesn't equate with anything since everyone's opinion of
    what "pretty" is different from all other opinions.
    
    Sure, purely physical attributes are what catch the eye at the first
    instance.  However, in most cases, other attributes such as charm,
    intellegence, depth of feeling, etc. soon overtake the purely physical.
    
    I will also stipulate that all of these attributes are valid only
    in the eye of the beholder, but that is also  true of the physical
    attributes.
    
    It is all purely personal preference.  In most cases I don't know
    (or even care) what exactly it is that turns me on (engages my
    interest)  all anyone can do is subjectively decide for themselves.
    
    	"How do I love thee?
    	"Let me count the ways _ ".  If you can.
    
    (With apologies to Elizabeth Barrett Browning).
    
    
    Dirk
    

re: -1, -2,

	I agree that Psychology is very theoretical - that's what makes
    it so fun to study.  However, I do feel that there is a difference
    between a "turn-on" and love.  For example, my wife and I will some-
    times sit at the beach and scope out various people who we feel are
    real "turn-ons", yet we also love each other for all of the afore-
    mentioned reasons which, in itself, is a "turn-on" of sorts, but not
    the same kind of "turn-on".

	I feel that the expression "turn-on" would imply that the "turnee"
    was previously "turned-off" and that something happened to make them
    become "turned-on".  Since I don't remember that I have ever actually
    been "turned-off" by my wife, then I find it difficult to think that
    she must do something to turn me back on each time.  I think that being
    in love is somewhat like being electrically wired to each other, in
    that you both become one circuit which can then be turned on or off
    by various internal and/or external stimuli.

	Obviously my wife and I were both initially "turned-on" by each
    other when we first met, and this phenomenon persisted as we became
    better aquainted.  But somewhere after the initial "turn-on", we
    entered the phase where we sort-of "grew on each other", and this was
    where we discovered all of the other reasons which we loved each other.

	Anyway, I think that there should be a distinction made between
    love and "getting a rise" out of something or another, but I still
    vote for the eyes (except at the beach - where they're hidden behind
    sunglasses and other body parts become more important).

						-DAV0

    Suzanne, you've got it right.  It isn't exactly looks.  That's the
    whole purpose here, I think, to find out what "it" is.  Wish I had
    seen Amadeus!
    
    And Dirk, you've got it right, too.  What is an attractant to one,
    is not necessarily an attractant to another.  But don't dismiss
    this whole topic because of that, because that difference is precisely
    the REASON for this topic!  If it were the same for everyone, we'd
    all know the answers, and everyone would strive to look pretty much
    alike, i.e. posess the "right type" of attractive attributes and
    that would be that!
    
    An interesting old Twilight Zone episode called "Number 13 Looks
    Just Like Me" is about just this very thing.  They FOUND what "it"
    was, and for a price, you could check into the "institute" and after
    a few hours or days of surgery, depending on how far you deviated
    to begin with, you emerged as the ideal.
    
    But it's subtle and mysterious even to ourselves why we find 
    person A "interesting" and person B just ok.  You say you
    don't care what it is.  I doubt anyone here is concerned about 
    "it" any more seriously than it being just a real interesting
    topic to ponder in a notesfile.
    
    Sandy  
    
    ps: BTW, I'm attracted to guys with long legs, lush, dark hair,
    and are a bit reserved.  I like the still waters that run deep!

I expected many to object to .44, that stated attraction --on
first meeting-- is the result of external appearances. This is
not a Psychological theorem. Rather, it is a fact, discovered
by Psychologists, through rigorous, meticulously run, studies.

To quote: "Two questions usually concern us... will they like
	us and will we like them...

	To most of us, there is something mildly undemcratic
	about the possibility that a person'a physical appearance 
	is a determiner ... it seems "unfair" to use it as a
	criterion ... And, in fact, SURVEYS HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE
	DO NOT RANK PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS AS VERY IMPORTANT
	IN THEIR LIKING OF OTHER PEOPLE..." (My capitalization)...

	"But research on actual behaviour shows otherwise. For
	example ... [a study of] a "computer dance" ... in which
	each person was randomly paired with a partner. At the
	intermission ... each person filled out an annonymous
	questionair... THE RESULTS SHOWED THAT ONLY PHYSICAL
	ATTRACTIVENESS MATTERED..." (Again, my capitalization).

There's a lot more to this than I care to key-in, but trust me:
it goes on in the same vein for several pages.

I rest my case -- Ron.

re .49

>	SURVEYS HAVE SHOWN THAT PEOPLE
>	DO NOT RANK PHYSICAL ATTRACTIVENESS AS VERY IMPORTANT
>	IN THEIR LIKING OF OTHER PEOPLE..." (My capitalization)...
>
>	"But research on actual behaviour shows otherwise ...
>	THE RESULTS SHOWED THAT ONLY PHYSICAL
>	ATTRACTIVENESS MATTERED..." (Again, my capitalization).

Since this is a scientific survey, I'll assume that the phrasing of the
questions and report was done with care.  What it says is that one tends to
like people who are "physically attractive"; that is, one likes people to whom
one is attracted physically.

Well, I already knew that initially, I tend to like people to whom I am
attracted, though I have been disappointed later on.  The question that this
topic is addressing is, just what is it that makes a person attract physically?
I think that personality is a factor in this attractiveness.

	RE: .49
    
    	Another point one may pick up on in this "scitentific" study
    is that physical attraction is related to a physical activity -
    i.e. dancing.  This test should be performed with other activities
    as well (chess, perhaps...) and with the types of people that find
    this other activity interesting.  It seems to me that if you group
    two strangers in an activity based on physical movement, they're
    bound to rate one another on characteristics linked with that (i.e.
    how well they looked physically).
    
    	Dan (a non-dancer)
                                   

    I consider the attributes I listed for what I find attractive to
    be physical attributes.  I find I am attracted to women with a sparkle
    in their eyes and a posture of self-confidence, even before they
    utter a single word.  Those women whom I have been attracted to
    in this manner cover a wide range of appearances and traditional
    beauty.
    					Steve

    
    
    	What turns me on?  Happiness. Smiling faces and happy eyes.
                           Positive attitudes. And big gazanzas to
                           play in. :^)
    
    	C.
                    

    What turns me on a lot about people (not necessarily physically
    but caringly) is when I see someone sensative and fortunate enough
    to read through all the walls and see the real person for who they
    really are.
    
    - Deep voices - HAIR - that accidental touch - that casual smile 
    from across the room indicative of interest -  a clean
    home/person - causul with $$ (when there's obviously a lot) - 
    
    When I think of it, maybe too many things.  I like alot about people
    and life, and so many of them turn me on!
    
    
    
    

    re: .42
      
    
    
    Suzanne, I agree.  
    
    I should enter that in the "what turns you off" file.
    
    Find a man who is attractive (and somewhat hypnotic) - and like
    a slap in the face -- MARRIED!  | ^ (
    
    Makes you want to cry!!
    

    
    
    What seems to be the big deal about being married??  Is it not possible
    to establish, or maintain a relationship with the opposite sex because
    they are married??   Or is it that being turned on is strictly
    something related to sex??  I have many married friends that turn
    me on if they didn't they wouldn't be friends, and just because
    they do doesn't mean I must lust after them.
    
    

    Re:.57
    You are absolutely right.  It shouldn't be associated with sex.
    But the experiences I have had seem to turn in that direction. 
    Which makes me sad/uncomfortable, and usually alters the friendship.
    
    I tend to avoid situations that are uncomfortable, and marriage
    must be one of them. ( to a lot of others also ) I mean, I tend
    to avoid married men!
    
    Being a married woman, presently going through a divorce, I have
    experienced a lot of the similar avoidance.  I don't know if it
    is done consciously or not.  But it just made me realize that I
    only help the cirle continue.
    
    Will have to work on that.  
    
    Watch out - all you married Men!!!
    
    
    
    Laura
    
    

Turn ons ...

EXTERNAL
--------

EYES - I can get lost in them, especially baby blue or gray.  Don't know why, 
but a definite weakness for me - I can stare into them forever.

REDHEADS - A rare enough commodity, always turn my head.

FIGURE - I guess I must confess to being attracted by a good figure, and that 
can be in jeans or sweaters or a bikini or anything or nothing.  Just call me 
an animal!


INTERNAL
--------

OPEN - A closed person is a definite turn off; someone who's open and willing 
to share themselves rates way up there for me.

HONEST - Goes with being OPEN.  Dishonesty a fatal turnoff.  But HONEST means I 
can TRUST them.

EMPATHY - Anyone who's got a good dose of empathy - the capacity to feel for and 
with another - goes to the top of my list.


There could me many more items for either list.  That's enough for the moment.

-Steve-

    It seems to me that all the points that I identify as "turn-ons" are
    already identified by the advertising profession.  Some are primal,
    but the majority seem to be subject to programming by TV, Magazines,
    mannikins.  In either case, the advertising overlay creates enough
    confusion that I might to well to decide that "turn-ons" are a pleasant
    feeling but don't indicate anything.
    
    I am referring to "turn-on" in the sense of a reaction to sensory
    data about a person, like visual, olfactory, etc, rather than a
    reaction to who the person is.
    
  

A friendly personality.... A gal that when I give them a hard time(Just
    jokingly) will see my sense of humur and then give me a hard time
    back!! (Just Jokingly)...  AT that point anything can happen and
    it gets exciting!! Not to mention really fun!!
    
    Zing!!

    I am attracted to a man possessing confidence in himself with a
    touch of humility.
    
    
    AND a sense of humor is MANDATORY!       ;^)
    
    
    Nancy

Physical:	Lotsa things.  Particularly brown eyes
		cute nozes and natural smiles.

Personality:	A sense of humor as warped as mine.

    
    At first glance:
    
    Nice smile
    Longish hair, moustaches, & beards
    Friendly (non-snobbish) attitude
    Slightly off-beat style of dress (such as one earring)
    
    After talking to:
    
    Makes observations I consider witty, original & intelligent
    Can talk about just about anything
    Can make me laugh
    Has ideas which prove he thinks for himself
    Is obviously intelligent
    Seems to be kind and care about others
    Responds to me as though he considers me to be attractive
    
    
    Lorna
    

    Someone with a sharp mind, a keen wit and (when appropriate) a feisty
    mouth, who shows zest and love for life and others.

    A little mystery here.  I have been told all my life that I have
    really nice eyes (very blue with dark hair).  However, it seems
    that it is just that part of me that scares a lot of guys off.
    My eyes are very intense; in that I mean, they show every emotion
    I feel which pretty much bares my soul.  It's like they see the
    fire there and are afraid of getting burned, however, I don't think
    they would complain if they tried.  
    
    

    RE: Tweety...
    
    	I pity those poor souls that can't take the intensity.  No guts,
    no glory...as they say!  Burn me!
    
    						Phil

RE: .67

I've been told that I and my eyes are too intense as well...  I thought about
wearing sunglasses, for a while, :-) but decided, why should I hide myself?

Hi Cheryl!

Jim.

I like the "sense of humor as warped as mine" reply.  Definitely
 true for me, too!  I'm also turned on by happiness and a lust for
  life.

If locations mean anything, I find scenic outdoor places, especially
 woods, to be quite the turn-on.
  <_Jym_>

    Well, this is my first attempt to go from "peeper" to "noter"...
    
    Definite turnons for me are...
    
       -  a man's eyes...especially if they are so intense that I could
          drown in them
    
       -  a smile that makes me feel comfortable and at ease
    
       -  a good-looking guy without ego problems
    
       -  a man who is comfortable in jeans or a 3-piece suit
                         
       -  a man who knows when to work and when to have fun
    
    As for settings, I love the beach, the woods...especially during
    autumn, and in front of a roaring fireplace.
    
    Diane
    

    Physically speaking, I'd be lying if I said that a tight, proportional
    body and a pretty face weren't nice.  And, there is a certain something
    about someone with auburn hair.
    
    But, the things that are a real turn-on (for me) are...
    
        a sense of humor, specially one that enjoys the unusual.
    
        interesting eyes, ones that can communicate without words.

        a smile that makes one feel happy and at ease.

        a quiet self-confidence that comes from feeling secure about
        oneself.
    
        a gal with smarts, and who knows how to use 'em.
    
        Dave

    
    
    	o Humour. Gotta have a sense of humour to be around me.. :-)
    
    	o Balance. A nice combo of sillieness and seriousness. The ability
    		   to balance that most times would be a nice change.
    		   I'm a silly person but also very serious at times..
    		   (or is that visa-versa?? :-))
    
    	o Looks.   I'd be lying if I didn't say they were important.

    	o Attitude. A positive attitude is a must.. I want someone to
    		    have at least as good an attitude about living as
    		    I do. (Enjoy it! You may not be around forever!)
    
    	o Eyes.     Eyes with emotion. Eyes that look into me and not
    		    at me.
    
    								mike

    When meeting a person for the 1st time we don't know a lot about
    them.  That takes time.  1st impressions do make a difference.
    
    	What I notice 1st is their appearance.  By appearance I mean;
    is he clean, conservative, does his clothing fit properly, etc.
    
    	I just can't talk to someone who smells or hasn't brushed his
    teeth in the last week.  I also have a hard time talking to someone
    who has pink or purple hair that is 1/2 shaved. 
    
    	2nd on my list is manners and mannerisms.  
    	
    	3rd, is he taller than me?  It shouldn't be a problem, I'm short.
    	Is he within 30lbs. of his correct weight?  I like to hug people.
    	I want to be able to get my arms around them.
    
    	4th is he intellegent, honest, convident, unselfish, affectionate,
    	and romantic.  I'm an incurable romantic, and I don't want to be cured.
  
     Some of you have been saying that by making a list you may be leaving
    some good men/women out.  I say, if your looking for a relationship
    and you know yourself, then you'd be wasting a lot of peoples time
    or worse starting relationships that a doomed to fail.  I for one,
    prefer honesty over maybe hurting someone later.

    My $0.02 worth    	

    what turns me on ??
    
    women who can handle a porsche - i luv 2 drive fast
    
    women who can take control of any situation
    
    women who keep themselves in shape
                                       
    women who can laugh at anything - ( like my paycheck )
    
    an older women -                    
    

    I havent been able to describe what turns me on after reading the
    previous 75 replys. So, I will attempt to try anyway.
    
    I really like a woman that will look me in the eyes when she speaks
    to me I can tell what she is thinking that way. I have (so I'm told)
    very intense eyes that look through people and this makes many
    uncomfortible. My own manager wont look me in the eye!
    All this over brown very normal( i think so) optical sensors.
    
    I like attractive appearance. Yes, I havent the slightest idea what
    i mean by that remark. I Find true beauty to have many forms and
    to say that any specfic feature "is the reason" is a lie.
    
    Brains. I like a person that that has a good feel for what they
    know and neither flaunts it or HIDEs it. I have dated both.
                                                                 
    All in all who really knows what turns them on? I do however know
    when I am turned on by a person and is that not what really matters?
    
    -jerry
    

    My personal preferences are honesty, fidelity, neatness and a pleasing
    personality.  Inner beauty means more than outward appearances.
     I am attracted by eyes with a sparkle, a sense of humor, someone
    who is caring and sensitive----a friend.
                              
                                        frankie
    

    she's gotta like anchovies on our pizza!
    
    /bruce :-)

    
    be lucky,
    
    Steve
    

    Khadijah (my 4 year old daughter)
    happiness
    love
    security
    my man
    peace of mind
    champagne
    and good friends to share all of the above (except my man)
    
    CC
    
    

    A lot of things "turn me on", and I could put them all under the
    heading of LIFE.
    
    However, to answer the original intended question (I think) of the 
    base note...

    ...not just what I look for in people, but what REALLY turns me on...

    ...and I'm not talking about "private" turn-ons because we all want to 
    keep this conference alive...
    
    I would say, just in passing, what "turns me on" is...  good fitting
    jeans.  (Doesn't seem like an intelligent reason, so it must be
    animal instincts. ;^) 

    Jerri    

    Seafood, the taste, the smell, the thought of....
    
    Just can't seem to get enough of it!!
    
    Cat

================================================================================
Note 2.2                           Directories                            2 of 2
BRAT::NEFF                                            7 lines  25-JUN-1987 15:41
                              -< A REAL TURN-ON >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    What turns me on?  I'm a very physical person. I love to touch and
    be touched.  I greatly enjoy flirting with strangers, so to be
    painfully honest I would have to say the ultimate turn on for me
    is knowing when I've turned someone on.  Fortunately I'm single,
    and LOVING it.
    
                       Shirley

    
    Is Shirley accepting E-Mail?
    
    Sherman_who_was_physically_"touched"_by_Shirley's_outlook_on_life_and_
    who_also_has_my_mum's_name.
    
    Hi Shirley :^) :^) :^) :^)
    

    Bob, Bob, Bob.........I'm really surprised at you.  Weren't you
    the one who said,"no rules is a lot more fun."  And here you are
    trying to catergorize me.   I guess I must be the exception, huh?
    
    Don't worry Sherman, the last time I looked I was definately a female.
    I enjoy 'turning on' the male species, not that I think my sexual
    preference should make a bit of difference to anyone, but myself.
     
    I was only trying to answer the original question without skirting
    the issue.  I guess I should have elaborated.  
    
    oh yes, about 'following up' after turning someone on......why bob
    turning them on is only half the fun. If the person happens to turn
    out to be a decent, kind, caring, etc... person why not turn it
    into something more?  I can only gain a friend and/or lover.
    
    
    By the way there is another name for people like me.....
                    
                                LOTS OF FUN
    
    
                                   Regards 
                                   Shirley
    

    In order to justify my insistence on this under the topic title
    above, I'll say....People like Shirley! :-)
    
    But Shirley, you didn't answer my question concerning mail. :-(
    
    I know, you can send me mail. :-)
    
    Or come to Colorado Springs. :-)
    
    Sherm_glad_you're_a_female_cause_bob_had_me_goin'_for_a_minute___phew!

    This may sound wierd, but I have always "gone for" musicians, and
    I
     just LOVE long, black hair.

    A man who can dance really turns me on, there just aren't many men
    who can lead a woman on the dance floor anymore.
    
    Also, a hairy chest does it for me too!
    
    Kim
    

    RE.90 Send her over to SOAPBOX to meet Boris_the_dancing_Bear
    
    :-)

        You just have the wrong model of a dancer in mind. Think
        of Gene Kelly instead.
        
        JimB.

    Been a long time since anyone's been turned on (or at least wanted to
    communicate it!) 
    
    o  a sense of humor (particularly a wry one) 
    o  passion - about life, loved ones, professional wrestling
    o  the desire to see the ABT at Lincoln Ctr one night and the NFL at
       RFK the next
    o  unusual physical features like moustaches, eye color, moles, birthmarks
    o  a sense of ease with his body, be it muscular or cuddly or slim
    o  smiles, lots of smiles
    o  the ability to understand and accept my run-on and/or incomplete
       sentences
    o  the ability to see when I've made an incomplete and/or run-on sentence
       :^) just joking!!
    
    I used to like men who were "into" their bodies, ie tall, god-like
    - until I dated a man who was not very much taller than I am (5'1");
    then I thought that "older" men were perfect - until I dated a man
    who was 3 years younger than I was; then I thought I only liked
    men of my own race - until I dated a man who was not; then I ...
    ran out of criteria!  The obvious things that usually attract can
    wear out - I find that almost any man can win me over with his ideas
    and self-confidence, no matter what package he's wearing over them.
    As long as he is intelligent and creative ;^)...
    
    Joanne

    
    just 'flip' it....

    
     The birth of OUR daughter, Ashleigh Ann Martin.  Born on monday
    the 11th at 8-8 and 19 3/4 in.  We now hav a boy and a girl. the
    perfect "YUPPIE" family.  Now All i need is a job that pays 60k
    and a beemer.  
                                              Happy Daddy.

    RE: .95
    
    Hey Alan, congratulations! 
    
    I was born on April 11'th, too.
    
    Somehow, though, I suspect that I might just be a tad older than
    your daughter. :-)
    
      Alan

    MY BIGGEST PROBLEM IS MY SMILE. MY TEETH AREN'T PERFECTLY STRAIGHT.
    WHEN I SEE A GUY THAT I FIND ATTRACTIVE I JUST LOOK INTO HIS EYES.
    WHEN HE LOOKS BACK INSTEAD OF TURNING AWAY QUICK. I JUST SIT THERE
    AND STARE. THEN I GIVE A LITTLE SMILE (WITHOUT SHOWING MY TEETH).
    I HAVE BROWN EYES TOO !!!

    I agree with the 90% who says the eyes have it!  I LOVE green eyes,
    they are rare.  Also, you can find out more about a person by what
    goes on in the eyes. I also love those young men running around with
    the "innocent little boy" faces.  Must be the "mother" in me.  I
    like guys who aren't afraid to admit they can't handle it all, do
    all, know all, etc.  Unfortunately, it seems pounded into the poor
    things from birth.  But there are a few who have escaped the curse
    of being ruled totally by testosterone(SP?) Lucky souls! And last
    but not least is the SNUGGLER!! That one trait ties with nice eyes.
    The best is if you can have both!

    Someone who knows how to scratch my back properly. 
    
    Aaaaah!

    	I am really turned on by a smooth broad back and wide
    	shoulders, nicely tanned, somewhat muscled but not
    	like a body-builder.  I also like hairy legs and arms
    	...a hairy chest is optional.  I usually go for beards
    	and mustaches but not all the time...
    
    		I guess I like hair :*)

    
    Well I agree with you completly! Well almost completely. Except
    
    I don't really like beards that much. theyre ok though. But I do
    
    like mustaches.
    
                                        -LAURIE "just a co-op"

    yes...backs..backs...backs - an attractively built man walking away
    from me in nothing but formfitting (not constrictive) bluejeans,
    Not-overbuilt shoulder muscles rippling gently with each stride....(*sigh*).
    (of course, at some point he has to turn around and walk towards
    me so I can see his eyes...which can be devastating to me as well).
    
    I tend to like long, wavy hair on men, but those finds are few and
    far between, and sometimes accompany some pretty quirky people...
    
    most important (need I even say it?) - intelligence, and a sense
    of humor.
    
    -Jody
    
    
    

    The hair has it...nothing is sexier than a man with a beautiful
    face and either/both a mustache and/or beard!  Other than that,
    I like BIG guys...6 feet and over (I'm 5 ft) and it doesn't matter
    whether they are heavy or thin...Mountain men....those rugged guys
    you see in Marlboro Country commercials (and we are not talking
    about DEC's marlboro either!) ;-)
    
    Jill

The thing that attracts me about backs, is dancing with a woman who has a firm
muscular back with a nice indentation for her spine just right for my fingertips
to rest in.  This makes it very easy and pleasurable for both of us for me to
lead.

Sometimes, though, it would be nice to be lead instead of leading in dancing. 

Jim.

    I can see the "new" advertising of the nineties:
    
    
    theme music building up in the background.
    Scene: a beach at sunset, waves in the background
    
    
    A tall male with no shirt but tanned and wearing tight blue jeans is
    seen running, in slow motion, backwards towards a seated woman,
    who starts to get up to meet him.  His back muscles rippling with
    every step, his ...
    
    The music peaks as he twirls around to grasp her in his arms as
    she realizes that he is actually a ... wolfman!
    
    
    OBSESSION -- On sale in better stores

    		I forgot to mention that I like "dark" hairs...
    
    		and eyes that penetrate my soul...
    
    		(re: Jim)
    		and the feel of my partner's hand around my waist
    		as we dance together...

    		(re: Mike z)
		>  Have I got a guy for you ...

    		anyone I know?

    	By the time he turned around as his back muscles rippled, I
    	doubt I'd much care if he was a wolfman or not!  WOW!  Great 
    	imagery, Jim!
    
    	Broad shoulders, slim hips, tall, blonde, and athletic.  Alas, 
    	I was a swimmer surrounded by Speedos for too many years and 
    	such preferences are now emblazoned in my heart.  (And a few
    	other places as well.)
    
    	As far as what I like, a slow foot massage without many words 
    	on a quiet evening spent sipping wine equates pure pleasure...
    	(For starters.)
    
    						   Carla
    

    
    TURN-ONS
    
    Beautiful hands (and what he does with them....)
    Eyes
    Sense of humour
    Ass
    "That triangular shape" - hips narrower than shoulders
    Suntan
    Scent - natural or bottled 
    Beautiful voice            
    Good proportions 
    ....and a sense of occasion....
    
    TURN OFFS
    
    Loadsa body hair (sorry guys,I'm a non-hairy chest fan)
    Especially hairy shoulders
    And beards
    Squeaky voices
    Bitten/grubby nails
    B.O.
    An inability to grin warmly and genuinely....
    
    A                               
     
    
    

    Well, since my last reply worked so well, here's another
    turn on:
    
    Someone who laughs at my stupid joke, and actually sees
    what I was trying to get at DESPITE the fact that the
    joke was pretty desparate.  Now *that's* love!
    
    --Louise

    
    a MAKE script that works... the first time.

    
    		what is a MAKE script?

    
    
    Being a diehard romantic, I like a woman who is very feminine, soft,
    but knows what she wants.  I nice figure would round that off
    perfectly.  An Irish-Italian mix is your best bet.  Cute, a little
    tan here, a little freckle there, a wisp a red, blue eyes and a
    bright smile, and a temper to tell you where you can go if you screw
    up.  Whew!!!
    
    Like flowers??  Day or Night, Rain or Shine, WE WILL DELIVER!
    
    

	Loooong flaming red hair.

	Extra padding in the hips - My dad told me to get a 
	  well-reared woman :-)

	A long slitted dress - a tantalizing peek.

	A smile

	A come-hither look.

	Soft soothing voice.

    .-1
    
    Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention "THAT look".  Thanks!!
    
    						-Red
    
    

    A deep soft voice...
    Clear baby-blue eyes...
    Broad shoulders...
    "weathered" face...
    Hairy chest...
    
    
    will do nicely, thank-you!

>                    -< Ivory Girls - 99.44% Pure?  Hmmm... >-

    
    Well, there IS that last .66% to play with...
    
    						>:^)
    
    

    
    
    
    Watching the sun set over the ocean on a balmy summer
    night, while the moon simultanesly begins to rise and
    shed new light on an old place..
    
    All of the magic and glory is permanetly captured on
    film.
    
    
    deb

       RE: .106
       
       	Trying to fix me up again Mike????
       
       					hehehehehe	
       							mike@Cannes

    
                              GUYS !!!
    
                                                  -laurie

       RE: .127
       
       	hehehehehe, Oh well, so much for the suspense!
       
       RE: .128
       
       	{smirk}
       
       							mike

    
    	re: .127 etc
    
    	you kept me in suspense...
    
    	and now I'm in the dark :*)

    Thunderstorms.  Best if I'm sitting in a sheltered place
    outdoors, about sunset so it's not quite pitch black, and I
    can feel the wind, almost feel the thunder...

    Massages.  Giving *and* getting.  And not just back-rubs!  :)

    A man's scent when he's aroused.  (blush)

    -- Linda

    soft hair that begs to be touched
    a smile that lights the eyes
    fingers that touch softly, spontaneously
    giving massages...shoulders, arms, legs, hands, and feet.  and neck
        and back
    the touch of breath on my neck
    taste
    spooning
    
    (sigh......)  8*)
    
    tony

    I don't know about the rest of you but!
    	
    	I like Pina Colada 'n' getting caught in the rain,
    	I am not into health food I am in to champagne,
    
    Remember the song - thats what warms me up!
    
    A lady who cares about herself, feels good about herself and wants
    to be with me. A Carribean beach, a Pina Colada on a moon lit night.
    
    Give me romance any time....
    
    Love and Kisses
    
    Jon

         I could go for the walking in the rain.  The song is at least
    partially right.
    
                                    Greg

    
    I love driving down a country road early on an Autumn morning (like
    6.00am) -
    it's been raining and the sun is shimmering on the wet road. The
    air is damp and crisp and a bit misty - the car window is open.
    The morning smells *wonderful*. And there's some really good music on the
    car tape.
    When you just *know* that it's going to be a fabulous day.
                                                
    Abigial
    
            
    

    RE .133 It's by Rupert Holmes on the 'Partners in Crime' album.

    re: .137
    
    	Every night I can do that.  I work until 2:00am and then 
    commute to Lowell from Marlboro (30 Miles on 495).  It's great.
    (If I would ever disobey the speed limit  0;-)) 
    
    Bill
    (The 0 in the smile is a halo.)

    
    Re: .136, .137
    
    Yeah, and late-nite driving...........those sweet hours (for me
    between 3.00-5.00am - too many others around at 2.00am these days
    ;-) - but I need to get the music right. Perhaps "Diamond Life" for
    cool driving in the dark, maybe Billy Idol for a 6.00am start as
    mentioned in .135........
    
    Abigail (who-is-a-car-an-music-fanatic-though-her-car-is-nothing-to-
    note-about)                                                         

    I get soooo turned on by the "look" in a women's eyes, what does
    it say to me, when I let my intutive feelings and sensors out, and
    what vibrates in my heart/mind when I interpret the response. There
    have been times when just the feeling of this vibratory sense, has
    had such an impact on me, that the overall feeling has just put
    my heart on wings...soaring, and howling at the moon and stars....
    
    -Arthur 
    

    I personally like hands.  A man must have nice looking hands.
    Strange???!!  You can tell a lot by looking at somebodies hands....
    I also agree on the eyes topic, direct eyes, the darker the better
    and more appealing!
    

    RE: 141
    
    Interesting... Tell me please, I can understand learning a lot about
    somebody from their hands but, what kind of hands turn you on?

    Can't resist....
    
    	SLOOOOOOOW hands.  of course.

    Skilled hands, driven by dedication and intellegence.
    
    A close friend of mine and I were talking about apperance
    and I commented on how I found her very attractive.  Whereas she
    pushed her hands in front of me and said "Tell me *these* are
    attractive!".
    
    Her hands are small and smooth.  Her nails are not all perfect and
    her cuticles (SP?), well they look like mine ;-)  Not *beautiful*
    in the sense of 'playboy', but quite attractive, to me.  You see,
    these hands have the skill of the artist, back by the mind of a
    poet.  The creations that result *because* of those hands can not
    lend them any discription other than beauty, in my eye.
    
    They are strong hands, skilled and quite sensuous (sp?), full of
    love and untireing.  Perfect hands.  To me.
    
    jim
    

    actually, mike....hands really *are* an important part of what attracts
    me to a woman, too.  i find hands to be very expressive and can
    often speak volumes that are impossible for some to utter verbally.
    
    in fact, hands often say what our hearts really feel, when our tongues
    are stumbling over the right words.
    
    tony who_has_expressive_hands_and_appreciates_them_in_others
    

re: 144

That was a very nice reply, Jim.

She's a lucky lady

M

    Apparently it's not so wierd (in the sense of "unusual").  I've
    had several women say they thought my hands are attractive, an
    opinion I don't share (they look kind of gnarly to me).  I got
    to wondering, though, if it's the hands themselves or what they
    do.  Every time I've received a compliment, it's been from someone
    who'd seen me play (guitar).  And, come to think of it, I find our
    keyboard player's hands as somehow more attractive - I jes' *love*
    to watch 'em do their thing.
    
    Steve
    

    I think that the hands hold a special place in many peoples hearts,
    either consiously or otherwise.  It is with the hands that we create
    in the 'reality' what our minds create in the 'sureality'.
    
    Some people say that thay can see a persons soul by looking into
    their eyes.  I can do the same when I see what has been created
    by the hands of an artist, and how it was created.  I am not speaking
    of the artist in the conventional sense, with paint and canvas,
    but any and all free creation where the complexities and beauty
    of the mind are transformed into physical reality.  Be it in sculpted
    works, written word or the formation of a dazzling mathematical
    proof.
    
    True, there are many ways in which this expression can take form
    that do not involve the hands, singing for one.  The hands just
    hold a deep fasination for me.  Maybe because I have had the chance
    to see such delicate beauty from the roughest hands and firm testimony
    from the most delicate and fragile hands, and most in between.
    
    To me, the hand, next to the mind (which controls the hand) is the
    most complicated and diverse part of the human body. Hence the most
    satisfyingly erotic, next to the mind that controls it.

    My opinion, and quite comfortable with it too  ;-)
    jim
        
    
    

	 Well, maybe I'm kidding ... (MAYBE...)  :-)

	 Eyes have got to have it...deep penetrable eyes that sparkle
	 and that you can almost, but not quite, "read they're mind"
	 through...   Uhm..yea...that's it...!  

	 What turns me off?  BEARDS....  I seem to be living in the
	 wrong state for that one, that's for sure!  :-)

	 kathy

    re: .150
    
        Oops.  I better shave then.
    
        - Larry  ;{)#  <<<<  Moustache and beard, best I could do...

	RE:151....

Yeah...but I love beards and mustaches! Hmmmmmm.....

Mel

re: .150,

>                            -< Ears!!!!!!!!!!!  ? >-

>	 Well, maybe I'm kidding ... (MAYBE...)  :-)


	This reminds me of a rather amusing sub-sub-plot of last week's
    LA-Law T.V. program in which the woman (formerly from the Partridge
    Family T.V. show - forget her name), and her lawyer SO (sorry, I'm
    not sure of his name either) were busy off in the corner practicing
    ear-kissing in the midst of some other sort of "important" disscussion.

	The woman was coaching the man on how to perform the ultimate
    ear-kiss and the conversation went something like:

		"Well...that's not quite it.  There's more
		of a flick to it...", she said as he once
		again moved back to her ear and began to
		flick her ear with [presumably] his tongue.

		The woman seemed somewhat interested in
		this new attempt as her eyes rolled slightly
		upward, but she quickly grew impatient at
		his imperfection and stopped him, "No, you
		still aren't quite doing it right.  I guess
		it's really more of a flit than a flick"
		she decided.

		"A flit...", said the man with a stern look
		of concentration on his face.  He then returned
		to her ear and began to "flit" her ear instead.
		The woman was now looking upward with a most
		intense anticipation of the success of her
		pupil, and to her delight, the flit was it!
		Euphoric giggling followed.

	Now, the moral to this story is perhaps there is a bit of a
    hidden turn-on associated with people's ears after-all.

				-davo

	This may sound strange but, I've always been partial to arms.
    When I see a man with strong looking arms, (not muscle bound but,
    we're not talkin' Pee-Wee Herman either, know what I mean?) I just
    want to be held by them.  Also the song, "Songbird" by Kenny G.
    THAT does it too.;-)

    Re: .154
    
    Speaking of songs... D'ya Think I'm Sexy by Rod Stewart ALWAYS gets
    me goin' Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm;)
    
    Barb

	 "Hold on to the Night" by Richard Marx will get me EVERY
	 TIME...

	 talk about putty..... 8^)

	 kath

    
    Another Rod Stewart vote - "Tonight I'm Yours".
    
    Quiver!
    
    Abigail
    

    
    	Music ?
    
    		Kitaro - Silk Road
    
    		Jonny Mathis (Anything)
    
    There's so much more, but I'm afraid Heavy METAL doesn't  really
    go with a romantic dinner. :^)  (Just kiddin' fellow METALheads.)
    
    Matt :^)

    Heavy_Metal goes with anything!!!!8-) 
    
    The Sentinel (ooops forgot what notefile I'm in....)

    
    
    	Now now!!  Let's not start going "off subject" here 
    	fellow HMer's!
    
    	Turn ons??  Hmmm...
    
    	Long hair (yes, on guys) that I can run my fingers through,
    	Earlobes!
    
    	Tigg~~

    Its tough to beat soft kisses on the back of the neck along the
    hairline, moving over to the ears or down the hollow of the back,
    whispers, goosebumps, bubble baths, candle light, massage oil, 
    light touches, Andreas Vollinwieder's (sp?) harp or Bolero as 
    background music.....
    
    be still my beating heart..
    

    wine, new age music and a fire in the fireplace...
    

    When I used to have long hair, having female fingers running through
    my hair was a definate TURN on....
    
    Bill (Dark Helmet to the HMers)

    
    Re:.160
    
    
                Oh Really???? ;^)
    
    

    
    		<< Feeling loved, wanted, desired.. >>
                
    	...although I agree 100% with re.161, I'd like to add
    	to that.   There's no bigger "turn-on" than the feeling
    	of being loved, wanted, and desired, by the right person.
    	The idea that you are so *very* important to your SO can
    	make worlds turn....
    
    	...and I really believe it can work a few miracles, too.
        
    
    	
    	
    
    
    

    Re: .163

    >When I used to have long hair, having female fingers running through
    >my hair was a definate TURN on....

    That's why some of us males choose to keep our hair long. :-)
    
    -- Mike

way,to go Mike -

I also like *long* hair on guys.  I think its a real turn on and sexy.

Meredith

    
    Re: .167
    
    Gee, Mikk, you ought to see me now!  (How long has it been?)
    
    Bob_H
    
    PS: What's with the a.k.a?
    

	 a sexy, deep voice....




				and a self-confident attitude.

	 k    

    Re:   a few back....
    
    That's why I'm letting it go long again....Should be sholder length
    by April.....
    
    Bill
    

    
    
    		S L O W  dancin' ! ! ! ! ! 
    
    			
    					My

    Lots of things, but for now:
    
    A certain look in the eyes.  
    A warm, friendly smile, nice teeth & mouth.
    Big shoulders, small bum.
    Paco Rabanne aftershave.
    Candlelight and soft music.
    Sexy lacy underwear, or sometimes lack of it.
    Passionate kissing.
    Touching.
    Cool, clean bedsheets.
    Waking up next to one I love.
    
    -Dotti.
       

    
    
    warm scented baths
    
    the feel of silk
    
    the smell of magnolias on a warm summers eve
    
    a full yellow moon
    
                                         -sunny-

    Having both kids either asleep or out somewhere on a weekend 
    afternoon!

    POOF---I'm a marshmallow!!!
    
    Don

    
    Count me in on the long hair!!!
    Since I was 8 years old, I have thought that long (well-maintained--
    very important!) hair on men was extremely sexy.
    
    Long dark hair
    Latin-lover types
    An accent or English as a second language types (I always seem to end 
    up with foreign men!)
    Musicians (something passionate about them)
    Aramis cologne (I can smell it a mile away)
    Skinny, skinny, skinny
    
    I definitely fall for a "type"--you could line up my SO and all
    my exSOs and you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
    
    Stacie
                                               
    

    	Stacie, I love long haired men also.  But that should come as no
    	surprise to you.  ;-)  Long (and I mean LONG) hair, a long neck,
    	long legs, a wild style of creative expression...
    	
    	Something happened in the last few months that's made me fatally 
    	attracted to the young rocker types.  That naughty look in their
    	eyes that just dares you to dream.
    
    							Carla
    

    
>    I definitely fall for a "type"--you could line up my SO and all
>    my exSOs and you wouldn't be able to tell them apart.
>    
>    Stacie
    
    
    		Hey Stacie.  Maybe if you tried a different type, the
    		lineup of ex's wouldn't be so long :-)
    
    

    Re-1
    
    Ha ha ha
    You funny.                
    And by the way, there aren't all that many, 3 important exSOs,
    and I just turned 21.  It's not like they're lined up for miles,
    ya know!;^)
    
    You do have a point there, though.  Those rocker types are known
    to have a closet "sworn to fun, loyal to none" attitude.  They fake
    well, though.  One conclusion I can draw from experience is that
    true musicians (not the lipsticked posers) tend to be deep and
    passionate about all aspects of their lives, and that kind of thing
    can be very sexy!!  Sum it up to say "when they're good, they're
    the BEST, and when they're bad, they're the WORST.
                      
    Carla, you have the "fatal attraction" thing pegged!  It's something
    that takes a hold of ya;^)
              
    Either they're worth it or I have something wrong with me and keep
    going back for more.  The latter seems more likely.
                           
    Stacie

    
        >Stacie, I love long haired men also.
    
             Well, so much for getting a haircut.  8^)
    
    	>Something happened in the last few months that's made me fatally 
    	>attracted to the young rocker types.
    
             And I REALLY should learn how to play my guitar.  8^)
    
                                                       Shawn L.
    

    re: .181 (Stacie)
    
    	But if you're not looking for something serious, then they're
    	perfect partners!  There just is something so addictive about
    	the unbridled attitude they have, and it brings out a side of
    	me that I really like.
    
    	I think you know exactly what I mean!
    
    re: .182 (Shawn)
    
    	I heard stories about you the other night.  ;-)
    
    							Carla
    

    Well it looks that there is no way in hell that I'll be getting
    the locks cut.  I never realised how many of you ladies like the
    long haired type.  I felt more comfy with long hair, and it added
    more to the wild-man image I seem to portray.
    
    
    Wild Bill

    Shawn,
    
    Don't you ever work??!!!;^)
    
    You're always saying that to me because *I* note so much, but you're
    always right in there with me, aren't you?;^)
    
    Carla,  You'd be  surprised, they *can* be faithful.  You just have
    to teach them!  (Good luck!)
    
    Wild Bill, good to meet you the other day.
    
    Back to the originally scheduled program...
    
    Long hair definitely makes a statement about the type of person
    someone is.  It is a statement of rebellion, an attitude, and says
    a lot about the person.  Some of what it "stands for" (in the rock
    and roller sense, at least) I don't like at all.  I mean, all this
    attitude and rebellion can be sexy, but it loses some of it's appeal
    when  it's used in the context of a meaningful relationship, right?
         
    Anyway, all you so-inclined men out there, grow your hair!  You
    can get away with it today!  It's *in*, read GQ!
    
    Dilly (aka Stacie for all you HR noters)

    
>>        Anyway, all you so-inclined men out there, grow your hair!  You
>>        can get away with it today!  It's *in*, read GQ!
      
    Ahhh, hey Mikki!  Is that why you keep renewing the subscription
    for me?!?!
    
    Bob_H

      
>    Ahhh, hey Mikki!  Is that why you keep renewing the subscription
>    for me?!?!
    
aaaay- yup!

    Doesn't anyone like short hair???  8-)

    
    Re: -.1
    
    "Doesn't anyone like short hair???  8-)"
    
    Sure, it looks good on Marines !
    
    Grins,
    Bob_H
    
    

>	Don't sweat it, Jerry.
>    
>    	Us guys with short hair get our share of babes.
>    
>    -mike z


This is probably true, Mike.  But what would I do with my fingers?...;^)

Mikki

>>	Don't sweat it, Jerry.
>>    
>>    	Us guys with short hair get our share of babes.
>>    
>>    -mike z
>
>
>This is probably true, Mike.  But what would I do with my fingers?...;^)
>
>Mikki


Oh come on! Use a little imagination! I'm sure you can think
of something to do with your fingers!

Melinda

[grin]

>    	Us guys with short hair get our share of babes.
    
    I guess they're the quiet, elusive type...

>    	Us guys with short hair get our share of babes.
    

	 Sorry, Mike...I agree with Carla and Dilly....DEFINATELY long
	 hair....actually, I REALLY like the look with the hair short
	 in the front and long in back....

	 oh baby! 8^)

	 kat

    Not all of us are quiet....I have mine short so I can ruin the rep
    of people with short hair..."Look out it's one of those short haired
    punks!!!!!!"
    
    Bill

    Hey kat...
    
    That's how I have mine when it's long.  I told you we were made
    for each other ;-)......
    
    Bill

    Well...   I happen to think that in between hair is perfect...
    The military look is out where I am concerned, but I happen to like
    people to be able to tell who is the female and who is the male
    just by looking at our hair when we are walking down the street...
    
    Personally, I'd take a moustache any ole day! :-)
    

>    Personally, I'd take a moustache any ole day! :-)

    	But Gale, you'd look kinda silly with a moustache!  ;-)  ;-)

    Gotta agree, though, moustaches and beards (well-trimmed) are great
    on guys.  More hair to run fingers through! :-)

    	Amy

    RE: -1
    
    Yeah, I guess it would ruin the effect of make up huh? :-)
    
    Although I have to agree that a "well-timmed" beard is on my top
    ten things I notice on a guy....  
    
    sigh....

    >    Although I have to agree that a "well-timmed" beard is on my top
    >    ten things I notice on a guy....  
     
    No five o'clock shadows for you, huh?
    

    RE: -1
    
    
    Ah, well, um, all right...  they have their time and place too :-)
    
    double-sigh...

    I like "short" hair for a man, but as Gale already stated, not MILITARY
    short. 
    
    I don't like long hair on men, but that's just MY opinion. I,
    too, want to make sure that I know I'm with a man, not a woman. 
    
    And as far as running my hands through his hair, I'd much rather have
    him do that to my long hair.  (Even tho I do grab the back of his
    head....sometimes.  Yup, there's enough hair back there for me!!) 
    
    Just one woman's opinion...
    
    
    -Dotti. Who_also_likes_moustaches_and/or_beards.

    
    I like a guy that has at least shorter hair then I do!!!  And I
    have real short hair!!!
    
    Katie

>>>>	Hey Carla, Billy Idol has short hair ...

	 But Billy Idol has MUCH MORE to make up for his short hair!
	 8^)

	 Bill....ah, well, grow it long and we'll see! 8^)

	 kat

    re: .205
    
    >>	Hey Carla, Billy Idol has short hair ...
    
    	I know and it's cut like mine.  There are special exceptions.
    	Everything that boy has turns me on.  If you need specifics,
    	Zarli, send me mail.  But his growling voice in my ear is a 
    	good place to start.  =8-)
    

    
    I don't have any problem at all "making sure the person I'm with
    is a man and not a woman..."
    
    No doubts.
    
    I don't personally find facial hair attractive on men either.
    Or women for that matter;^)
    
    Dilly
    

    	Dilly, I'm with you.  I think facial hair is as attractive on 
    	men as it is on women.  As for knowing whether the person I'm
    	with is male or female, I'm relatively certain I can make the
    	distinction without relying on the length of their hair!
    
    	But it's great we all have different tastes, or all the women 
    	would be interested in the same men and that would be a living
    	nightmare.
    
    							Carla
    

    To answer the original question -
    
    	A mature, articulate, well groomed, warm, gentle woman who is
    honest and sincere in her dealings with others - Looks are not all
    that important - some of the most undesirable people around are
    endowed with good looks.
    
    	Hair length ? Facial hair ? Totally unimportant and trivial.
    
    
    					Guy B.
    

         Guy,
         
         That was beautiful. And more importantly, it embodied
         truth.
         
         Thank you.
         
         Melinda

    re: 211
    
    Absolutely!
    
    The only real turn-on.
    
    -Dotti.

    RE .212 AND .213 - thanks for the vote of confidence, at times >I
  feel out of "synch" - old-fashioned, but trends change quickly, not
    so values.
    
    	Guy B.
    

    
    I always make passes at girls who wear glasses.
    I know it's a little wierd, but I feel that women are much more
    attractive if they're wearing glasses. I don't like women who
    don't wear glasses if they need them. I look at glasses as being
    an accessory. Ofcourse a women needs the right glasses, and with
    all the different styles available, most women I know make the
    right choice.
    J.D.

    
>>    I always make passes at girls who wear glasses.


	 I look like a yuppie in my glasses....

	 I guess the question is....do I *WANT* to look like a yuppie?





	 :-)

	 kath_with_the_teal_green_Yuppie_glasses

    What turns me on Eh !!!!
    
    Women that wear a tee shirt around the house. (Just a tee Shirt)
    
    Woman that are unpredictible
    
    Woman that will try anything once. Twice to make sure they didn't
    like it the first time.

    Woman with great Teeth... (No Joke)
    
    I love women in general all sizes, shapes and color.  
    
    Steve...

    New thing, new thing...
    
    When my SO talks Portuguese to me in *that tone*....
    
    Portuguese has gotta be the sexiest language out there.
    I've just heard bits and pieces before, but the other day I
    heard a whole conversation.  I'm hooked.  I don't even care what
    he's saying, just as long as he says it in Portuguese...;^)
    
    Dilly_who's_SO_hit_on_a_major_turn_on_this_weekend

    dark black hair, blue or brown eyes, nice hairy chest, long strong
    hairy legs, nice big arms, a deep dark tan. 
    
    

    Longish, dark hair, a nice hairy chest (a hairy back is an added
    bonus), expressive eyes (the kind that smile along with the mouth),
    strong hands that know how to be gentle and knowing how to kiss
    the way I like.

    Debbie
    

    addendum to .-1
    
    A beard or moustache, neatly trimmed, in addition to all the rest.
    (How could I have forgotten!!!).
    

    Long, well-muscled legs (the proportions of a Greek statue) and
    a sly sense of humor.  I'm partial to brunets, but not exclusively.
    The legs of Christopher Lambert (of _Greystoke_ and _Highlander_)
    are particularly drool-worthy.

    What's all this with Body Hair......yeeeeuch!!    I'm glad I don't
    have any....I don't wanna look like George "The Animal" Steele,
    or King Kong.....
    
    Bill

    I'm with Bill, I like short hair, not military but really short.
    Hair on the chest is nice, but not necessary and a clean shaven
    man is on the high side of my scale.  I do tend to like mustaches,
    but the rest of the face without hair.
    
    I guess I'm showing my age!
    
    Lorna
    

    Actually, my first name is Lorna-Lee...  But there are more out
    there then you'd think!!
    
    Okay, I know what's coming next...  Cookie, Crumbs, Doone.  Go ahead
    and make my day!
    

    The human species is related to the peanut, it's not the shell but
    the NUT inside which is the most delectable.

    
    As to what turns me on- hands!!  A nice looking hand, with groomed
    nails and relatively long fingers.  Even better are Big hands.  I am
    also quite partial to tall men- the taller the better.  This has nothing to
    do with the fact that I'm 5'0'!!  Intelligence is also extremely
    important.  I'd date someone who was short (I have dated men who
    were short), but I'd never date anyone who was dumb.  I love really
    smart men.  I also love a good sense of humor. 
    

    The main turn on for me is a Gentlemen - I like to be treated like
    a lady.  I also like a nice bum and a good sense of humour.  It
    is important for me to be friends, and to be able to find even a
    mundane occurance enjoyable.  Its nice to get on with someone even
    under stressful situations.  My motto is be friends, and don't take
    things to seriously, but don't be flippant.
    
    As far as looks go - a nice personality shines through.  Your eyes
    will hopefully display all..... 

I agree basically with the previous note--perhaps a Gentleman isn't
    QUITE what I want all the time, but a man with a sense of courtesy,
    and kindness and not afraid to open the door for me, but willing
    to accept that it's all right if I get muddy sometimes.  That's
    the big plus--a wonderful sense of humor only improves it.
    
    Looks are nice, of course--but I have rarely been turned on by sheer
    looks alone.  The personality needs to shine through--I don't want
    to become involved with a beautiful, empty piece of china (so to
    speak), or a petty, self-center boor either.  Conceit I cannot
    stand--and sheer superficiality is something else I cannot abide
    either.  I don't want to be bullied, but I don't want to always
    have to lead.  I don't want to be told I CANNOT do something, as
    I would never tell anyone the same.  And I like being treated like
    a lady, but not a breakable one.
    
    These are the thing dreams are made of....  ;)
    
    kim

    I absolutely agree with .230.
    
    I like to go camping and walking and parachuting and lots of other
    things that china dolls could not possibly do.I don't expect perfect
    manners all of the time, but consideration.  I work with men all
    day - sometimes I despair at the way they talk about women, its
    usually because they are all 'men' together, but YUK.....
    
    I don't think they are the norm or are they.  Ive got three brothers
    and they always talk about women with a great deal of respect...

    
    
    	More turn-ons.  (Other than the long hair that I mentioned
    	before)
    
    	...Lips.
    
    	/K




They gotta have lips somewhere... keep looking! :->

Jim.

    Recently discovered (for me).....
    
    Wanna guess?
    
    
    Not physical!!
    
    
    
    CHIVALRY!  Something about putting on my coat for me....brrr!  ;)
    
    kim

    re: .236
    
    I don't know Kim, I think I'd look real silly wearing your coat.
    
       :-)
    
       - Larry

    	Chivalry and thoughtful gestures are definite turn-ons.  After my
    	nightly midnight loo visits, my boyfriend always holds the covers 
    	open for me as I crawl back into bed.  There are few things which
    	please me more!
    
    							   Carla
    

    Agreed completely!!  Chivalry is a definite turn-on!!  
    
    There's something about a man opening a car door or helping me with my
    coat that just sends chills up and down my spine!!!
    
    Holly
    

    As long as he'll let me open his door or help him with his coat,
    too.  Chivalry is not a strictly male perogative.
    
    --bonnie

    RE: .240
    
    Agreed with that too!  
    
    Holly
    

I think just giving/recieving is a big turn on, whether it's having someone cook
you a romantic dinner, or cooking it for them, whether it's helping put their
coat on and wrapping your arms around them, or holding the covers open and
sliding over to warm them up (Yum!)

Jim.

re. last few.   Thank you all for sharing these things..

                It has made me realize something - None of these things
                cost a cent and they  are soo nice!...

                Now isn't that terrific?!...8^)

Mikki_who_loves_hugs

.242>	I think just giving/recieving is a big turn on,
    
    	I agree, Jim, 100%.  Thanks for pointing that out.

    							Carla

    re: -.1

    Oooooo...no way!  Chainmail/chainletters are a definite turn-OFF! 
    Especially the ones that say "You'll die a horrible and horrendous death
    unless you mail 2,000 copies to all of your friends"

       JMHO,
          Larry  

    Larry -
    
    Wrong type of chainmail....
    
    Ie - jewelry and clothing made out of woven links (circles) of metal.
    (or plastic in the case of Cher...)
    
    grins,
    
    clark.

    I like, like (as opposed to just like) EYES that smoulder with total
    honesty.  Doesn't matter what colour, but if they can sear my soul
    in two seconds flat then I'm a gonna!! (^;  The occasional five
    o'clock shadow and always watching you shave.
                              
    What doesn't - beards, mo's, long hair and crew cuts.
    
    ..dale
    

    re: .247
    
    Methinks thou hast played Dungeons and Dragons way too long...
    
    I'm not even going to ASK where you can pick up chainmail (armor) as
    clothing.  Except maybe for halloween...
    
    	- Larry (a might bit confused young lad)

    
    King Richards Faire, carver mass.
    
    among other places...
    
    grins,
    
    clark.

I have seen chainmail at the Renfest every year in Larkspur Colorado.
(Renaissance Festival) The company is called

Negra-Khan. They have made the headpieces that Cher and several others
have worn in Renaissance Era films. They have them displayed in a photo
album and even have autographs of the more famous customers.

The card I have  has the following information:

Negra-Khan

Chainmail Jewelry & Armour

Frank Lieberman
Head of House Negra-Khan
3129 E. 63rd Street
LongBeach, CA 90805                   (213)422-8140

    A friend of mine has a chainmail helmut he got in Larkspur. It looks
    quite nice. He keeps it on a styrofoam wighead which also wears
    sunglasses. What he may use it for I haven't a clue ;*), liesl

    I'll probably regret saying this in public :) . . .
    
    but I've always wanted a chain mail bikini top . . .
    
    No, I don't know what I'd use it for.
    
    --bonnie

    You can find chain mailers at renaissance fairs and science fiction
    conventions.  Lord Randolph Markham is one of them.
    
    -Jody
    

>    but I've always wanted a chain mail bikini top . . .

Hehehe....I'd like one too...actually, I'd like a chainmail top like
Cher wears in the US Swim and Fitness (Holiday) Health Spas.  But I 
suppose I would have to have the body to go with it, eh?

kat

RE: Chainmail bikini's

I've seen them at SF cons...  They are... shall we say riveting! :-)

Actually, it's what they are not that is interesting.  They can either be quite
revealing, or not, depending on the size of the rings and the number of
interlocking rings that go through each ring.

I'm sure they'd be fun for SM/BD too... :-}

Jim.

    Kathy,
    
    I think that you could carry off a chain mail outfit with
    aplomb! and also class and style.
    
    :-)
    
    Bonnie

>    I think that you could carry off a chain mail outfit with
>    aplomb! and also class and style.

Hummm.......now, Bonnie...is that a compliment or not?!?!  :-) You 
realize, though...that chainmail can really hurt when parts of 
your body get caught between the links!!!!  :-)



PINCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Yow!



/kath

    Which is why people who wore chainmail wore some kind of cloth shirt
    beneath it.
    
    				Nigel

>>    Which is why people who wore chainmail wore some kind of cloth shirt
>>    beneath it.

Yes, but that takes all the adventure out of it.....


	Kat

    How about a couple of strategically placed bandaids?
    
    --bonnie

>How about a couple of strategically placed bandaids?


	flesh colored of course...

	Funny, I was thinking about this last night.  I've noticed that someone
who smiles, and does it such that you just *know* it comes from deep within her,
well, it has the characteristic of lighting up her whole face.  And *that* I
find to be very attractive.


Brian

    
    My god, I've created a monster...
    
    RE - chainmail pinching - if it is properly made, it won't.  At
    least I have never heard of it pinching...
    
    It will rub however... :-)
    
    re: shirts under chain - normally worn for more
    padding/warmth/modesty...
    
    RE - chainmail bikini tops - Those can be had, but I am not sure
    at what price...(varies from shop to shop)...Just beware flash pictures
    :-) (snicker snicker...)
    
    (I could say more, but I would get hit for it....)
    
    grins,
    
    clark.
    

    the chainmail itself doesn't do the pinching..... 
    
    ;-)
    
    anyways, i met several people dressed in chainmail at noreascon.
    yes, ahem, certainly does catch the eye.......
    

    re: .265 (noreascon)
    
    Yes; although I wasn't there, I heard that impeccable posture
    of a couple of individuals sporting chainmail was quite striking.
    
    multi ;-)
    
    Steve

I couldn't believe it! After reading all these notes about chainmail, what do
I see walking down the main street of Syndey.... Some guy wearing a knee length
chainmail coat with matching helmet! (no sword)

Gotta say tho'.... it did *nothing* for me... too baggy and shapeless for
my taste... but hey! each to his own 8^) 8^)

Hugh.

    re: "too baggy and shapeless..."
    
    Well, that guy just needs a better tailor. :-)
    
    	Jon

    I understand meat cutters wear some sort of "chain mail" to keep them
    from cutting themselves.  Don't now about the helmet, though.
    
    P.

I saw some *really* nice looking studded leath wristlet bracers at NERO this
weekend.  Turned out that they were for working with sheetmetal to keep you from
cutting up your forearms.

Jim.

	Re: .269

>    I understand meat cutters wear some sort of "chain mail" to keep them
>    from cutting themselves.  Don't now about the helmet, though.


	The only chain mail I've ever seen meat cutters wear is a kind of
	half glove that protects the thumb and first two fingers.  (Although
	who knows what they wear after hours :*])


	>>AL<<

	 Not to cause an uproar over chainmail again, but.....

	 I was at a bar tonight listening to a band that I go see a
	 lot, and struck up this conversation with this girl....turns
	 out she makes chainmail....

	 gave me a quote on a 1/2 shirt tank top ($300) and a bracelet
	 ($10 usually $20)......

	 :-)

	 Now, I'm going to see if perhaps crafty little me can make
	 one myself.....

	 kath

    I'm sorry, and I hate to sound stupid, but what the heck is chainmail
    (as far as something to wear, that goes)?  I know about the letters!!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Virginia

    RE: chainmail
    
         THINK days of olde when knights were bolde.
    
                                      Greg

	 Chainmail is what the knights of the middle ages wore as part
	 of their armor......

	 If you have ever seen Cher's commercial for the health spa
	 (US Swim and Fitness here, Holiday heath spas in New
	 England), the tank-top like shirt she has on is
	 chainmail...actually, after talking to the girl last night,
	 it isn't actually chainmail, its just made up to look like
	 it.


	 kath

    Virginia,
    
    Chainmail is links of metal, connected in such a way that it can
    actually look like woven cloth.  In olden times, it was worn either as
    armor or under armor, depending on how tightly the "weave" was (4 links
    to one, 7 links to one, etc.).
    
    It's neat looking stuff and very popular with the Renaissance Revelers,
    the Society of Creative Anachronism, and so forth.  Drawbacks are that
    it can be very heavy, very hot on hot days, and very expensive!
    
    I was with Kathy when she met the chainmail "smith" (??) she was
    talking about a couple of notes back.  She showed us a chainmail
    bracelet that she had made.  Very impressive!
    
    And very appropriate for Kathy!  :-)
    
    Carol
    

    Thanks for clearing that up for me.  I thought folks were pasting
    letters together or something  ;-)
    
    Virginia

	 RE. .last


	 Hummmm....now THERE's a thought!  I once saw these gorgeous
	 stockings in a store in NYC......they were newspaper print
	 (or made to look like newspaper print)

	 :-)

	 kath

>    "STICKS AND STONES MAY BREAK MY BONES BUT WHIPS AND CHAINS EXCITE
>    ME !"


	 I love it!   :-)  Hehehehe!  That's great!  :-)

	 kat
    

    THIS IS NOT ME... THIS IS A RELATIVE WHO'S INTERESTED IN REPLYING:
    
    KISSING HANDS, A NICE HAIRY CHEST, A REAL NICE SMELL, THEY CALL
    YOU BACK, MAKE THE FIRST MOVE, WEIGHT IS PROPORTIONAL, NICE EYES,
    DEFINITELY NICE BUNS, CAN CONDUCT AN INTELLIGENT CONVERSATION, NOT
    SEXIST, PAYS FOR DINNER (AT LEAST HALF OF THE TIME), 
    
    IF ANYONE CAN MEET ALL THESE REQUIREMENTS, SEND ME YOUR NAME & ADDRESS
    AND I'LL FORWARD IT ON TO TWO VERY ATTRACTIVE (YOUNG) WOMEN.
    UNFORTUNATELY, THIS DATE WILL HAVE TO HAPPEN IN TEXAS AS THEY DON'T
    OWN A CAR YET.
    
    (MARRIED MEN NEED NOT APPLY)

    From a distance:
    	Long well groomed hair, pouty lips, big eyes, nice legs (big
    calf-small knees-strong thighs), strong buns, good posture.
    Any one of these physical qualities will turn my head but all of them
    on one woman will make me drool and follow like a lost puppie.
    
    Close-up (getting to know them):
    	Pouty lips that kiss me back, big eyes that look back with yearning
    for me, a sharp wit that comfortably compliments my own, honest
    valuable fearless feedback in conversation, an obvious sence of self
    worth, a positive outlook, and someone intelligent enough to tell me I
    screwed up without blasting me to 'smithereens'.
    
    						George

    Re .283
    
    
    >> ...valuable fearless feedback in conversation ..
    
               Agreed ! Meaning no bull-sh!tting ?

    
    I turn on to.......
    
    - Positivity!
    - Sense of humour
    - Enthusiasm
    - Strong beliefs, honestly expressed
    - Passion (in beliefs held, in attitude towards life)
    
    And yes! No bullshit conversations.
    The few people I've come across with the above attributes have always
    made me feel that around them was the best place to be - they make
    things happen.
    The physical stuff truly is secondary.
    
    Is it possible that, when we list personality attributes that we're
    attracted to, we're drawing a picture of how we'd like others to
    see *us*?
    
     
    

    RE: last
    	I think your right about your last comment.  I think it's a list of
    traits we strive to attain and respect in others.  A turn on for me is
    someone who can truely reflect back to me the way I am so I can
    acertain where I'm at and what I need.
    						George

    The aroma of Polo cologne on just about any man.  That stuff gets my
    attention more than clothes, body, hair, eyes, what-have-you.
    
    Cathy

    
    1) Shucking.
    
    2) Jiving.
    
    3) Leg pulling

    
    Re. -1
    
    From an ignorant Brit....what's "shucking"?
    
    'gail

    re: .289
    
    All three pretty much mean the same thing...
    
       - Larry

    When a man talks to me in Italian!  I don't understand the language
    but it turns me on....
    
    Sandie

    re: .291
    
    Ma perche?  Dovresti imparare la lingua, almeno un poco.  Forse lui sta
    dicendo qualcosa cattivo!
    
    Ciao,
       Larry

    Translation?????
    
    Skip

    Sorry Skip, but that's between Sandie and I.  ;-)
    
       - Larry

I still have my travelers dictionary from my trip to Italy a few years
ago any bids for silence or disclosure?

8^)

-j

    I've seen your traveler's guide, Jer...I'm not worried!  ;-)
    
    How's your garden doing this summer?
    
       - Larry
    

    Mike,
    
       Well, I knew that you'd have little trouble.  Actually, Sandie is
    the first Noter I've encountered that gets "turned on" by Italian, so I
    decided not to miss this opportunity.  Haven't heard any response from
    her yet, but who knows? ;-)
    
       BTW:  I think you can replace "Mi piace" with "A me piace".
    
       Later,
         Larry
              
    

    Oooooooo, Larry.....
    
    It's getting hot in here.  I think I'm in love.......
    
    Sandie
    
    P.S.  I don't know what you said but it sure sounded GOOD.

    If you're single and in your early to mid 20's...I'm yours.
    
       - Larry  ;-)

         Somebody's having a "Fish Called Wanda" flashback.
    
                                      Greg

    RE: 300
    
    Larry,
    
    Sorry.............I'm VERY married (to an Italian who talks to me
    in his native tongue all the time).
    
    Ooooooo......
    
    Sandie

    Gee, and I was going to take an Italian class this semester.....
    Sigh... oh well, back to German I guess.
    
    Auf Weidersein
    Skip

    Drat, there goes another one.  Sigh...maybe I'll go back to Italy.
    
    Yeah, Mike, that scene from "A Fish Called Wanda" was pretty hilarious.
    Especially, when he smelled her shoe/boot.
    
    I don't know about the rest of you, but foot odor is NOT a turn on for
    me!
    
       - Larry   ;-)

    
    Hello Skip
    
    Just to improve your German:
    
    Auf Wiedersehen
    
    Carina from Germany (any new word required - just ask)

re.296
The garden is doing great everything growing in leaps and bounds including
the weeds 8^)

-j

    
     <<< Note 16.307 by WR1FOR::HOGGE_SK "Dragon Slaying...No Waiting!" >>
    
    >>Gutten Tag
    
    GUTEN Tag, otherwise your spelling was good...;-).
    
    Bo

    Re: .307

>   Well... ummm ... er.... gee goes to show how rusty my German is!
>   
>   Course I've only had one year and didn't fair to well with it. 
>   
>   But who knows... maybe I'll get better if I study it instead of
>   the blonde who sat in front of me... ;-)

    And who sat in front of you during ENGLISH class?  Let's try that
    second sentence correctly:
    
    "'Course I've only had one year and didn't fare too well with it."
     ^                                         ^^^^ ^^^
    
    The apostrophe is there for the purists to indicate a contraction of
    "of course".  You are far from the only noter to misspell and/or misuse
    English.  It just seemed appropriate to point it out this time.  And
    now back to your regularly scheduled note.

re-.1
Feeling picky today?

-j

    Re .312
    Yeah, I was feeling picky.  I get jarred reading notes (or anything)
    that contains misspellings or misuse.  That is a topic for another
    conference.  It probably already has several hundred replies.
    Re .313
    The jets are cool.  I will now drop back into (mostly) read-only
    mode.

    re: .316
    
    Perhaps you should leave this rathole before you dig your grave
    any deeper...

>>    7.  If it really bothers you so much... start a notefile on it
>>    somewhere else.  This file was set up to enjoy, not pick nits. 
    
     "We are the `Knights Who Pick Nits!'"
    
     ...or is that "nyits"?
    
       - Larry

    Re. 311 >> And who sat in front of you during ENGLISH class ?
    
    A talkative brunnete and a gracious red-head (sp) ?
    
    
    Re  -< What turns you on ? >-
    
    Those who speak bad French with U.S.American accent.
    They always begin by saying, "voulez-vous...?"
                
     FaZari

    
    Gee, sure glad I'm back from vacation.  Looks like I missed
    some reeeeeeeeal important discussion :-)
    
    

    Eyes (doesn't matter what the color is) that make me lose my breath,
    just by the way they look at me.  That's #1.
    
    The way a man acts - as in *he* feels he's attractive, but isn't
    in love with himself and ONLY himself...a confident appearance.
    
    Nice bod - not a muscle man - just someone who cares about his
    appearance. 
    
    Someone who's sensual and romantic and likes to run his fingers
    through my hair....ahem....
    
    Someone who can make me laugh.
    
    And - I gotta admit - hearing someone talk Italian is a definate
    blood pressure booster.
    
    But first and foremost is the eyes....
    
    Lynne
    

    Cut the supermarket Italian, Mike!  8-)
    
    Zuppe di Pollo e Fagioli!  Capelli di Angelo ai Gamberi!!

    re: last two
    
    I can't believe you guys beat me to it!  :-)  Well, the last woman I
    spouted Italian to, turned out to be married...so I'll keep out of it
    THIS time...
    
       - Larry

    This discussion reminds me of a scene in the movie "Gregory's Girl".
    
    -- Mike

Actually, Mike Z had another film in mind, as indicated by the title to .323.

				Steve

P.S.  Mike Z, how's your Russian?

    re .329
    
    	Mike Z, you must have Roman hands and Russian fingers	;->
    

    Fish Called Wanda, of course...

    Fish called Wanda ?
    I would certainly prefer Ghost.
    
    THe eyes is also something very important .
    
    Virginia Jasmin
    Digital - EIS - Brazil