Conference noted::equitation

    I used Purina Pure Pride 200 and 300 for many years.  I liked the
    consistency of the quality and feedability.  (The horses liked it and
    did VERY well on it.)  Pure Pride is pelletted, so many people don't
    like it.  I never had a problem with horses choking on it, however.  My
    horses' coats were so shiney they looked like I used Show Sheen on them
    every day. 
    
    I used Pure Pride because I had a hard time getting consistant quality
    in my grain mix when I ordered it from the local grain mill.  (Oats
    were sometimes dusty, sometimes light, too much molasses, too little
    molasses, grain that froze solid during the winter...)  At least
    in our area, Purina has a guaranteed analysis.  Plus, both Pure
    PRide and Omolene had almost exactly the same components and the
    same percentages as my custom mix.  And I ended up feeding about
    a fourth to a third less in weight.  (I wonder if pulverizing the
    grain to be pelletted increases the digestibility?)
    
    I mostly fed 300 (16% protein) which is VERY high.  I would NOT
    recommend it for everyone.  But I had 3 horses which were hard keepers
    and poor eaters.  I wanted to get as much nutrition in them per
    mouthful as possible. Also, the horses were out on 12 acres of pasture
    during the day all year 'round so they had plenty of room to run (which
    they did!).  They are no longer fed such a high protein mix.  And
    I would not do it again unless I had a really good reason to.   

    Mary Jo

    I'm wondering if anyone mixes feeds? My mare is currently on 5 qts
    of Blue Seal Charger (14% protein sweet feed) daily, plus 4 flakes
    of hay. Her turnout does not include grass. I had her on 8 qts of
    this but she was getting flighty, and since she is only ridden about
    3 times a week I thought I'd be okay to cut her down some. Well,
    now she's losing weight after being on the lower volume for the
    past few months. With winter coming she will be ridden even less,
    maybe once a week, so I hesitate to increase the amount of sweet
    feed for fear she'll be a hyper wreck all winter. Problem is,
    she's finicky. Charger is the only thing she'll eat consistently,
    presumably she likes the high volume of molasses it seems to contain.
    Last winter I had her on it, but she was so antsy all year and I'm
    wondering if by mixing a complete pellet feed (such as Trotter)
    with the Charger I can put back the weight she's lost without
    increasing her enery level?  I think she'd eat it mixed, but I'm
    wondering if it's common practice? She gets all the hay she wants
    and won't eat much more than 4 flakes daily, has free access turnout,
    and is wormed the 1st of every other month. Any suggestions on
    putting back the lost weight without having her get so hyper she
    resumes fence-jumping and ariels daily? Thanks!
    
    Linda
    

    I've had good results mixing complete pellets with sweet feed, for just
    the same reason -- they need the weight, but the sweet feed makes them
    goofy!  I've also had good results (even better, in fact) by mixing
    alfalfa pellets in with the sweet feed, but some horses just refuse to
    eat this mixture.
    
    Another way I've found to get weight without craziness is to add some
    vegetable oil to what you're feeding.  Do it gradually, though.  Some
    horses are more tolerant of this than others.  
    
    good luck,
    ellie

    Hi Linda,
    
    I am currently feeding all 4 of mine Trotter and Pacer mixed, equal
    amounts of each.  I believe both of these are 12%, one may be 13%
    though.  I always try to cut down on the sweet if mine get too hyper
    and that seems to work well.  I also feed a lot of hay, in the winter
    it keeps them warmer and also gives them something to do when they
    aren't working.
    
    Linda
    

    I haven't seen a problem mixing feeds, though I have seen my horse get
    very hyper when on too much sweet feed ("too much" varies btw seasons!).
    What has helped put weight on has been adding corn oil to his dinner.

					-Caroline

    Hi Ellie and Linda,
    
    Thank you both! I think I'll stop and get some pellets on the way
    home tonight and give it a try. I like the idea of the vegetable
    oil as well, but I don't know that Miss Finicky will eat it. Guess
    I'll try the grain mixture first, if she eats that I'll try adding
    a touch of veggie oil.
    
    Thank you both again!
    
    Linda
    

You could also try feeding something like Golden Bulky, which is actually a 
cow feed.  I think it's made by Blue Seal. You wouldn't want to feed it
exclusively, since it's not made as a complete feed for horses, but for the
horses I've fed it to (and seen it fed to), it had the effect of keeping them
in good flesh without making them bounce through the roof.  It has molasses in 
it so it's tasty.  I forget exactly what else it has, though.

If you prefer to stick with 'traditional' feeds, I'd vote for mixing in some
Trotter pellets.

    my gelding lost a ton of weight last winter.....I won't go into 
    details...grrrr
    
    Anyway, what the vet and my trainer recommended was to feed strider.
    It has less protein, so it takes less energy to `process', therefore
    they won't lose heat/energy/weight.  (authors note:  I am trying to
    remember back a year.......my reasons may be a little off...but the
    general idea is correct).
    
    Since there was no green grass at the time, and he was being fussy
    about the hay, I fed 1 lb am and pm of alafalfa pellets mixed in
    w/ grain.  I also added 1 TBS corn oil to pm grain.
    
    The other biggie was not to feed more than 4 lbs of grain/feed at a
    serving.  Any more gets wasted.
    
    My gelding gained back the weight.
    
    My girlfriend's horses also had a weight problem (again I won't get
    into it........real big GRRRRRRR)
    
    She followed the same plan and her horses are looking much better.
    
    I know it's a weight gaining plan, but maybe you can take the necessary
    info out for weight maintainence.
    
    m

    Hmmm...some very good suggestions here! I will ask at the feed store
    tonight which pellet feed is lowest protein level and go with that
    mixed with the Charger for now (I suspect I'll have to keep the
    Charger even though it's high protein just to keep her eating).
    So many seem to recommend corn oil that I think I'll try adding
    a tblsp in her evening feed as well. Unfortuneatly she has to be
    on a twice daily feeding plan, I'm just not available to feed any
    more than that, although that in itself has never seemed a problem
    with her. She does get all the hay she can eat, which is generally
    about 4 flakes before I start seeing leftovers scattered around,
    and what I've been getting seems to be good quality. Thanks again
    everyone, and keep the ideas coming!
    
    Linda
    

    I feed a 12% pelleted feed to my kids. It took a while to wean them off
    of the molasses type feed but done gradually it works. Pelleting makes
    the feed easier to digest so you get more nutrition for your money. I
    was also feeding an old horse with very little teeth left, that was
    losing weight. After the switch to all pellets, he went from needing
    five pounds of sweet feed to only needing two pounds of pellets to
    maintain the same weight. It convinced me that it was the way to go for
    everybody. I use a high protein and vitamin suppliment to take care of
    the different needs my baby (2 yr old), has.
    Sandy
    

    I find Strider pellets (11% protein) is best for putting on
    weight.  A problem that can happen with straight sweet feed and
    hotbloods is that they get so high they burn off weight instead of 
    putting it on.  So I use the pellets as a base and add some sweet feed
    for the flavor.
    
    Mary

    I HAVE A QUARTER HORSE MARE THAT IS A VERY HARD "KEEPER". I USE 50%
    PACER AND 50% BEET PULP FROM BLUE SEAL. BEET PULP IS VERY INEXPENSIVE
    AND IS EASY FOR A HORSE TO DIGEST IT.
    
    
                                                      GREG

    
    The barn where I keep my horse mixes feeds all the time. We've got one
    big guy (17.3) that gets a mix of pellets, mash and sweet feed
    everynight. (he's a hard working dude!)
    
    Nancy
    

    
    
    I had the same problem with my TB mare when she was on a 12% protein
    sweet feed.  I would have to lunge her 30-45 minutes everytime I wanted
    to ride her before I dared to get on her with out taking my life in my
    hands.  I also could not keep weight on her as she had so much energy
    she spent all of her time in the stall pacing.  It was very hard to
    keep her coat nice in the winter time as she would walk so much in the
    stall that she would rub all the hair off of her shoulders.
    
    I solved the problem by changing her grain to a 50-50 rolled oats/
    rolled barley mix and she is like a different horse.  She doesn't 
    pace the stall all the time and she finally has a brain instead of
    being wired out of her mind.  I buy a 50 pound bag of rolled barley and 
    a 50 pound bag of rolled oats and mix them together in the grain bin
    and then feed from that.  The mix is about 10% protein with about the 
    same nutritional balance as sweet feed.  I have no problem now getting
    her to gain weight or to keep weight on and she seems to like the feed 
    just as well.  
    
    Pat

    re .14
    
    I'm really interested in your rolled barley method.  I too have TB's
    and they get -crazy- when they are overfed on high energy grain.  I've
    heard of using different fillers, but not barley.  Is it available at
    most feed stores?  Sounds like something I'd really like to try.  Did 
    you have to do anything special to get your horse to et it?  Or do they
    just seem to like it?
    
    
    ellie

re: beet pulp
	One thing to be very careful of if you use beet pulp is to be sure you
soak it thoroughly before feeding it.  It absorbs a lot of water, which you 
*don't* want to happen in your horses stomach.

    HERE"S MY BEET PULP FORMULA. 8 CUPS OF WATER TO 3 CUPS OF BEET PULP
    PELLETS. IT TAKES ABOUT 2 HOURS TO SOAK UP.
                                                      GREG

    
    
    Re. .14
    
      I have found that barley is available at most feed stores if you 
    ask for it.  You have to use *rolled* (cracked) barley as unrolled 
    or whole barley is too hard for the horses to chew and digest.  The 
    rolled barley smells like it has molassas in it when you open the bag 
    and I am assuming that it tastes as sweet as it smells. 
    
    I have never had a problem getting her to eat it.  She has always been 
    a good eater (make that a piggy) and she has always cleaned up every last 
    bit of her grain.  I just changed her over one morning and it took
    about three weeks for her to calm down and start acting like she had a
    brain instead of being on speed all of the time.  I find that we have
    fewer arguments when I try to teach her something new and the lessons 
    with my trainer are much more productive for both of us.
    
    Cost for the oats runs about $8.00 for a 50 pound bag and around $7.00
    for the barley.  I use up 100 pounds of the 50-50 mix about every 4-6 
    weeks and find that I am feeding less grain and getting better results.
    
    
    Pat
    
    
      

    We use Trotter Pellets and sweet crimped oats plus bran.  If I want to
    add weight to any of them I add some brwers yeast and sunshine pellets.
    They all seem to do well on it.  (Sorry that was brewers yeast).
    
    I personally don't like the "sweet feeds" as some of them have
    everything but the kitchen sink in them and in addition I found the
    corn made them hot as well as one mare break out in hives...molasses
    and corn combination.
    
    Good luck
    

    One more thing...you can add soaked beet pulp for volume if you want.
    Some people swear by it in the winter mixed with warm water.
    

    Word of caution on feeding cow feeds...some horses have a big problem
    with it due to their digestive systems.  The cow's is much stronger.
    
    

    
    
    Also, cattle feed often times has additives in it that will kill a
    horse.  I remeber reading about two cases (Equus?, Blood Horse?) where
    a feed mill did not adequately clean out the mixer and contaminated a
    batch of horse feed with a cattle feed that had an antibiotic mixed in
    with it.  Several horses died and more had to be distroyed due to the
    internal damage they suffered from the antibiotic.  I will try and see
    if I can find the article.  I believe one case was in California and
    the other was on the East Coast somewhere.
    
    Pat  

    The poisoning was in NJ, I thought the source was chicken feed.
    The problem in CA was from hay cubes,that caused botulism poisoning.
    Both were discused in Equus. This months has a followup on the NJ case,
    they are running a long term study on the survivors to see if they
    could predict which ones would not have made it faster to prevent
    suffering. After 8 months some are back to normal while others have had
    to be put down. The feed additive affected the heart.
    Sandy
    

    I JUST FOUND OUT FROM MY GRAIN DEALER THAT BLUE SEAL CAME OUT WITH A
    NEW FEED CALLED OLYMPIAN (sp?). IT FORMULATED SPECIALLY FOR HORSES THAT
    HAVE A WEIGHT PROBLEM. MY DEALER TOLD ME ITS IS A PELLET FEED WITH 14%
    PROTEIN 8% FAT 7% FIBER. TO ME, IT LOOKS LIKE IT HAS A HIGH FAT
    CONTENT. HAS ANYBODY TRIED IT ,OR HAVE ANY MORE IMFO ON IT?
    
                                        THANKS 
    
                                                             GREG
    

    
    
    I dug out my back issues of Equus last night and found the stories they
    did on the contaminated feed in the November 1989 and November 1990 
    issues.
    
    From the November 1989 issue:
    
     A mechanical error at a production plant is being blamed for the
    addition of Monensinto feed that by early Sept. had sickened 75 New
    Jersey horses and killed 19 more.  An antibiotic compound routinely
    added to poultry and cattle feed, monensin is toxic to horses even in
    minute amounts.
    
    Monensin (trade name Rumensin) is often added to beef-cattle feed to
    facilitate weight gain.  It is also used to prevent coccidiosis, an
    intestinal disease affecting cattle, goats, chickens and horses. 
    Horses, however, have no tolerance for the compound and as little as
    one or two milligrams per pound of horse feed is enough to poison them.
    
    There is currently no antidote for monensin poisoning, which damages
    the horse's heart, liver and kidneys.
    
    The November 1990 issue contains the update on the horses that were
    moved to the University of Pennsylvania's New Bolton Center shortly
    after the contaminated feed was discovered.  
    
    Of the 57 horses that began the study, 34 pleasure, show and racehorses 
    were able to return to their previous perfomance, while eight other 
    animals resumed their breeding careers.  Four yearlings, who ingested 
    monensin through their dams' milk and in feed as weanlings, also survived. 
    The remaining 11 study subjects were eventually euthenized when it
    became evident that the extent of their heart damage precluded a return
    to normal.
    
    Pat

    
    
    	Question..
    
    	I have been feeding Lady and MAXi Crimped oats for the 
    	last year and they have been doing great on it .. 
    
    	But, lately I baught new hay and they are eating that
    	before they eat there grain.
    
    	I know that all the grain gets eaten because there is 
    	nothing in there buckets when I get home but, I was
    	worried that they don't like the crimped oats.. 
    
    	I got the crimped oats from agway this time and they are
    	dusty.  
    
    	My husband is going to go to blue seal tonight and buy
    	some new crimped oats.
    
    	Questions:
    
    	Has any one used the molasse crimped oats.?
    
    	Has any one seen there horse turn up grain for hay?
    
    	Has any one had problems with crimped oats..?
    
    

    Every horse I ever had would go for really good hay with as much
    gusto as oats. but they would ignore both for sweet feed. Oats and
    hay are generally not balanced nutrition, I always use an allinone
    pellet for my walker to be sure she got a balanced ration. I then
    give hay to prevent boredom, just a good quality grass hay. Walkers
    will stay fat on any diet practically, but poorly balanced nutrition
    show in the coat quality and feet. Your new hay might just taste better
    than the oats do.
    Sandy
    

Sounds like you got a load of yummy hay. And it sounds like your last batch
of crimped oats aren't quite all they should be. Between the fact that your
horses are going for the hay first, and that the oats seem *dusty*, it might
not hurt to feed those to the birds and get a new batch for the horses.

..regarding balance of diet....most vets will tell you that the hay quality
is more important than grain. You can eliminate grain all together if you
have good hay and plenty of it. Most of us have to supplement with grain
in the North East for a number of reasons, including lack of turnout and 
the quality of available hay. It makes sense, horses eat more hay than grain,
and everyone knows that you are what you eat..:-)

I'd buy a new bag of oats!

	JoAnne (amateur horsey nutrition expert ;-)

    
    
    	We also give the horse vitamins Pemwood.
    
    	

    I suggest that you take the dusty oats back to Agway for another bag. 
    or a refund.  I use Agway choice pellets and Choice texture...and my
    two have never turned up grain for hay.  But then, my hay is just hay
    and nothing special.  Mostly just filler..
    
    If you decide not to take the grain back to Agway, at least mention it
    to them.  You might get a bag free!!!
    
    Caryl
    

    re >You might get a bag free!!!
    
    A couple months ago, we had a problem with a couple bags of Purina's
    Omelene 100. We returned them to the stores we had bought them at for a
    refund. I also wrote a letter to Purina complaining about their quality
    control. I got a nice letter from a manager at Purina thanking me for my 
    letter because they want to know about such things. The letter also
    included a voucher for a couple of free bags of Omelene 100 which we
    could pick up at our local feed store

I appreciate the comments about returning the "bad" bags.  But, we have tried
Agway twice and had the same results both times.  Why buy Agway, when we can get
10 times the quality with Blue Seal?  We tried.  We learned.  We won't buy
Agway again.  My wife only bought the Agway because she was picking up hay and
didn't want to stop a second time.

We really should return the one bag we have left.  I may do just that.  I have
no problem with the service we get, at least from the Agway in Merrimack.  I just
don't like their grain - and their prices tend to be higher than others.

Ed..

    
    
    	I thinks we figured out the problem..
    
    	We ran out of pemwood(vitamin supplment) about a month
    	ago but, they continued to eat there grain so I never
    	assocaited the two..   Then we were getting cold nights
    	so I was feeding them corn (only half cup) so they continued
    	to eat.
    
    	Then I ran out of corn and decide that they were getting
    	to hot under the collar so I elimated that too.  So they
    	were getting the crimped oats plain.
    
    	Last night I gave them crimped oats and sweet feed and they
    	gobbled it down.
    
    	We are picking up the pemwood over the weekend. 
    
    	I didn't think it would make that much difference.
    
    	Learn something new everyday.
                                            

    
    	Is anyone feeding Classic EQ horse feeds?  What do you think of it?
    The local hardware store stocks this feed - it's expensive but the 
    claim is that you can feed less.  It's extruded (I think) and puffed
    and looks like Purina dog chow.  There's a formula called 'New
    England Mix' (or something New England) and the producer suggests
    feeding it as a supplement to alfalfa hay - which is odd - alfalfa
    hay is not a popular hay to feed around here - even *if* you can 
    find some.  
    
    	I'm not familiar with the entire line - but it looks like
    a quality feed.
    
    - Janice
    		
      

    > ...the producer suggests
    >feeding it as a supplement to alfalfa hay - which is odd - alfalfa
    >hay is not a popular hay to feed around here - even *if* you can
    >find some.
    
    I know this will probably start fist fights etc, but ... Straight 
    alfalfa hay is *not* a good feed for horses in general. Many people
    in CA are having problems with enteroliths(i.e. stones in the horse's
    gut) and vets think it is due to feeding straight alfalfa hay. For
    another thing, alfalfa is *too* high in protein for horses. It's
    freqeuntly at/over 20% protein when the recommended rate of total
    protein in horse's feed is in the 8-10% range. Now don't worry because
    your grain mix is 12-18%. Your probably not feeding enough grain to
    change the total protein percentage in the ration after you count the
    hay. Another thing I don't like about alfalfa is that it makes a lot of
    dust from all the small bits of leaf that break up.
    
    Your milegae may vary but you won't catch me feeding straight alfalfa.
    

    Hi John,
    
    	I totally agree with you - when I was in Arizona, where alfalfa
    is fed exclusively (and growing all around us for miles and miles
    year round) I fed a mix of Bermuda grass with the Alfalfa.  I 
    couldn't get my hands on any northern species like Timothy/
    Orchard grass/clover, etc.  There's a connection with white and
    gray horses having sun sensitivity problems and increased
    Melanoma when fed alfalfa.  There was also a C:P imbalance
    in the hay out there and was noted to be a concern for 
    young horses and their bone development.  Let that alfalfa
    bale get 1 raindrop on it and I swear the whole thing turned
    to mold - I was very careful to check every flake.
    
    	My point was, few owners feed alfalfa - I think the
    New England mix should be formulated to complement a
    Timothy/Orchard grass hay instead of alfalfa.
      
    	I'm looking to increase the protein and fats in 
    Dexter's diet - he's getting leaner with all the work he's getting,
    and the energy level is dropping off - I don't want him getting
    too thin.  I'd like to see an improvement in his coat condition
    as well.  He's on an 11% pellet - and, oh, sweet feed is
    not an option :^} (mistake learned the hard way).  He's on 
    Milk Plus for his feet - I would like to find 1 thing that 
    does it all.

    - Janice  
    
    

    Hi Janice,
    
    Oh, I understood your point OK. I was just on my soapbox about alfalfa.
    It was another bit of culture shock when we moved here from New
    Hampshire to find that *many* people here in WA feed straight alfalfa.
    Grass hay tends to be more expensive. I guess that's why. Alfalfa is so
    prevalent here that many boarding stables charge $25-$50 extra per
    month if you want the horse to get timothy or other grass hay.
    
    About Dexter's ration. I had a similar experience with Charity some
    years ago when I was conditioning her strenuously. Until she was
    working 90 minutes(e.g. 15 min walk, 60 minutes at strong trot & canter
    work & 15 min. walk), she did just fine on her "idle" ration. 
    
    When she hit the 90 minute mark, she started to lose a bit of weight.
    With her, I just increased her grain(which was 12%) by a pound or 2 and
    she was fine. But, she's an easy keeper. Another horse might need to
    have its grain doubled.
    
    If I were looking to increase protein and fats as you are, I htink I'd
    check out some of the feeds designed for performance horses. I know
    Purina has one. I think it's called Athlete or something with athlete
    in the name. I don't know what the specs are offhand but I recall
    reading a flyer that said the protein and fat levels were designed for
    the performance horse's needs. If you can find that or a local
    company's equivalent, maybe that would work for you.
    
    If all else fails, you can increase protein in the ration by using a
    higher protein hay(e.g. clover & grass mix if he's on straight grass
    hay or a mix with more clover if he's already on mixed hay).
    You can increase the fat by adding corn oil to his pellets. I know it's
    not the "1 thing that does it all" solution buts its a solution! 
    
    John

    Thanks John, 
            
    	There's a lot of options out there - I like the philosophy of
    starting with high quality higher protein hay and then try a grain 
    change or increase.  I'm always hesitant to change feed - but I
    like learning what people are using and how they like the results
    of feeding a particular brand.  If I could find a formula that
    contains everything that the grain with corn oil and milk plus 
    pellets offer - at a lower cost than all these ingredients bought
    seperately - I'd be quite pleased.  And the feed buckets would
    stay cleaner (oil makes a mess) :^}  
                                                     
    - JB
                                       

    Hi,
    	I am currently feeding Classic EQ horse feed.  However it is the
    formula (to be fed with grass hay).  This has a yellow tag rather than
    the Blue (Alfalfa hay).  I have only just started my horse on this feed
    so I don't know that much about the results.  I have been told by
    several people who live in my town that the feed is great, the horses 
    require about half the ration which they would normally get with pellet
    type feed.(which makes the cost aprox. the same per week.)  By the way
    the portion is measured by weight.  It seems the traditional coffee can
    method is not quite as applicable ie.( a 12/13 oz can is not equal to
    1LB of feed)  Given as the grain is "hollow" like dog food it is much
    lighter there by require aprox. 2 cans per "weighed" LB.

    Hi,
    
    	Thanks for the info.  The local feed dealer has a brochure but
    it doesn't list the different formulas.  I will ask for for a 
    analysis tag on the grass formula.
                                  
    JB

    Hi,
    
    	Well, If they can't get you the info you are looking for I would
    be happy to remove the tag from my grain and post the info from it
    here in this file.
    
    Wendy