Conference terri::cars_uk

    Tony are you sure that she wasn't confusing the XR2i with the RS Turbo.
    
    The RS has always has Recaro seats and alloys as standard.
    
    Last year Ford did a special promotion on XR2i's where they offered
    Alloy wheels, met paint and Heated front screen as no cost options.
    
    Phone a Ford dealer for the current spec.
    
    Roy 

    
    
    Well, I ordered an XR2i - if they want to give me an RS for the same
    price then I don't mind  8^).
    
    I wanted the XR2i because it has all the performance that *I'm* ever 
    going to need/use (I'd kill myself in an RS) and it was free (other 
    than the ABS etc..).
    
    The lady in Hertz specifically said that as of October 1991 the XR2i's
    would have said options as standard.
    
    Oh well, come January we'll see (however, if they have got an RS
    instead I supposed I could force myself to keep it).
    
    Cheers,
    -Tony

>>    I wanted the XR2i because it has all the performance that *I'm* ever 
    
    One of this year's 'dogs' in CAR magazine...
    
    J.R.

    Re: 'dogs'
    
    Its all a matter of opinion.
    
    Compared to all the hot hatches on the market, the XR2i could be
    described as luke warm. However, Tony is honest with himself and isn't
    after the all out performance.
    
    The engine is well proven and should return reasonable performance with
    reasonable economy and good reliability.
    
    Let us know what spec you get and how you get on with it.
    
    Roy

>>    described as luke warm. However, Tony is honest with himself and isn't
>>    after the all out performance.
    
    Certainly, I think it's good to see someone buying a vehicle with
    some sort of 'go-faster' image and admitting that it is not all that
    fast, but is at least good enough for the purchaser.
    
    
    Re dogs and opinion
    
    Almost all comments on cars are pure opinion, after all the facts
    are more often than not quite boring (even if important).
    
    The CAR panel are only expressing their opinion (as in their GBU
    section).  Just because they are paid to write articles, doesn't
    mean that their opinion is really much better than anyone elses.
    Another point, they list the Alfa Spider as one of this years 'dogs',
    and then say that if they had room in their garage, they'd want one.
    
    'dogs' in their description is meant to mean that the vehicle isn't
    really up to the required market standard.  It doesn't mean that the
    vehicle is actually all that bad, just not as good as they would like,
    or perhaps expect, from that particular car.
    
    
    Re the XR2i
    
    I wouldn't have one, but that's purely my own opinion.
    
    At least a few extras included in the price one was expecting
    to pay cannot be anything to complain about.
    
    J.R.

    
    I agree with John,
    
    Another thing when judging if a car is 'up to the mark' is to decide
    where the mark is. There are a lot of (probably quite excellent) cars
    which I consider to be just too damned expensive. Everyone has their
    limits and mine are different to people who'd buy an Integrale or a
    BMW M3 (much though I'd like either), let alone a Mercedes 500 SL or a 
    Porsche 911.
    
    If you want a car which is going to be cheap to run in 5 years time you
    probably could do a lot worse than a Ford. I can walk into main dealers
    and pick up bits for the 21+ year old Ford mechanics in the Marcos, I
    bet you'd have trouble getting 5 year old bits in a Toyota dealer! 
    
    Mark

    
    No problem getting parts for my 4 year old Toyota; mind you it only
    seems to need tyres...
             
    William.

    Also remember many years ago most car writers slagged the Renault 5
    Turbo as a 'dog'. A few years later they all raved about it!
    
    Times change, everyone has different opinions and choice, otherwise
    what a dull old world it would be!
    
    Greg

    Wandering off the subject a little perhaps, but how does the XR2i
    bear up the the old XR2 MKII as far as performance is concerned ?
    
    Has anyone out there owned both ? How do they compare ?
    
    Tim

    	I haven't owned both, but I did have an XR2 as a lease car for 18
    month until it was stolen. A few months ago I had an XR2i as a hire car
    for a journey from Ayr to South Queensferry, about 90 miles on cross
    country twisty A roads. I was disapointed with the XR2i. As expected
    it was a bit faster than the XR2, but it just didn't have the go kart
    feel. The springing is very soft and the body rolls a lot on corners. I
    found the car trying to bounce itself across the road if the direction
    of the road changed at the wrong part of the springs bounce. I would
    say that on those sort of roads it would probably be slower than an old
    XR2. Ford seem to have softened the suspension up to stop it rattling
    your fillings going over manhole covers, but I didn't find it as "fun"
    to drive. 

    
    			XR2 vs XR2i
    
    I owned an F reg MII XR2 and currently own an XR2i.
    I thought the XR2 was faster but that was only because I had put slick
    50 in the engine and put a K&N filter charger on it. Hopefully when I
    do the same to the XR2i it will be a bit faster otherwise I'll be 
    disapointed.
    
    The XR2 has a more sporty sitting position than the XR2i.
    Due to the XR2i's shape the roof is a bit low for me, my head nearly 
    touches it ; this was the reason they couldn't put a slide sunroof in,
    which is a shame.
    
    The XR2i idles badly some times it idles at 1100 rpm and some times at
    900 rpm. Apparently this is common.
    I miss the kick the old XR2 used to give when the kicker in the carb
    used to cut in , this used to make the car feel fast. The XR2i throttle
    responce is just smooth.
    Handling on both cars is ok, but I suspect the old XR2 to have the
    edge.
    
    
    Does anyone know if the Fiesta RS TURBO wheels fit an XR2i ??
    

    Re .1
    
    You'll have a job putting a K&N filter on a XR2i..it has no carb!
    Yes RS Turbo (Fiesta) wheels will fit on a XR2i no problem.
    
    Does anyone know how the MkII & III compare to the MKI ?
    
    ..Craig

>>    You'll have a job putting a K&N filter on a XR2i..it has no carb!
    
    But it does still have a filter element, which can be changed.
    
    K&N do replacement elements for various injection models.
    I guess the increase in airflow may be less of a benefit since the
    original air intake/housing is still used, but you have a choice.
    
    J.R.

    
    It doesn't matter whether the car is carbed, injected or has a turbo
    they all have air filters which generally can be replaced by a K&N
    filter or similar.
    
    Putting a K&N filter on my old XR2 made it fell like a totally
    different car, it sounded like an old RS2000. It had totally
    different throttle responce, probably due to the change in jetting.
    It also made the engine look good as well.

    But I would have thought a K&N filter on a injected engine made little
    if no difference at all?  After all fuel injection doesn't rely on air
    intake as a carb does.  (or does it?)
    
    ..Craig

>>    if no difference at all?  After all fuel injection doesn't rely on air
>>    intake as a carb does.  (or does it?)
    
    Injection systems won't use the vacuum to draw fuel through jets,
    but they do still rely on air intake.  Without it, it won't run  ;-)
    
    Anyway, with almost all tuning mods, the trick is to get the
    engine to flow a greater volume of fuel/air mixture.  Changing
    for a filter element which allows more air through can result in
    more power being produced, assuming the injection will put in more fuel.
    
    One other possible gain in fitting a K&N or similar, is that you
    do not have to renew the element, just clean and oil it.
    
    J.R.

    Electronic Fuel Injection systems usually have a 'Mass flow sensor'
    in the air intake system. This measure the amount of air flowing
    through it (this varies with the pressure and the speed of the air).
    The amount of fuel to be injected is then calculated and the injectors
    told to supply the appropriate amount.
    
    If you increase the air flow (by reducing the resistance caused by the
    filter) then you will automatically get more fuel injected - until you
    come to some limit imposed by the Computer or mechanics of the fuel
    injectors. At the limit you will start to run too lean. I would expect
    that the mechanics of the injectors would have sufficient extra
    capacity, but the computer might not be programmed to deal with much
    more than the designed air flow (also the air flow sensor might be
    operating at the limits of its design range, so be less accurate).
    
    Andrew

>>    capacity, but the computer might not be programmed to deal with much
>>    more than the designed air flow (also the air flow sensor might be
    
    For the injection system on a Manta GT/E (K- or L- Jetronic ?)
    there are alternative components available to deal with the
    increased air flow/fuel delivery requirements of a tuned engine.
    
    When I do eventually get around to dropping in the 2.2 lump, I'm
    quite likely to make these changes to the injection system...
    
    J.R.

    
    Has an XR2i got a limited slip differential?
    I know the RS TURBO has.
    If this is the case I will be unable to put slick 50 in the engine?

Why is that?

>>    Has an XR2i got a limited slip differential?
    
    I very much doubt it.  It's no use unless you have some power ;-)
    
    
    Unless Ford have gone back to the old Mini-style transmission,
    why will you expect problems putting crap in your engine ?
    
    The final drive ought to be a separate unit from the engine...
    
    J.R.

    No the XR2i nor the Fiesta RS has an LSD. However, the Escort RS has.
    I assume this is the model to which you are referring.
    
    Roy

    
    Back to the original note, I just phoned Anchor Ford in Reading and 
    they said that Recaro seats and alloys are part of a new package 
    introduced, for an extra charge - so they are an optional extra after
    all.
    
    However I'm assuming that Hertz have opted for this package, coz if my
    car arrives without alloys, it goes back!

    Unless you specified alloys on your quote/order or they are standard
    equipment, I don't think Hertz would be very impressed if you refused
    the car because it didn't have them fitted.
    
    Still lets hope you get them. Let us know.
    
    Roy

    
    I did specify them on the order.

    
    Well, got my XR2i on Saturday and it has come with Alloys and Recaro
    bucket seats.
    
    I really like the car. Its nice and solid and runs smoothly. Its farily
    quick and eats the Cortina and A reg Escort brigade, but would't stand up
    against the big guns.
    
    Overall I'm very glad I ordered it. Will I still be in a months time ?
    We'll see.
    
    -Tony

    Well done Tony. Pleased to hear you got the Recaros after all.
    
    Roy

Just watch out for Nova GSI's "keeping up with you"!!! ;-) ;-)

Mark.

    
    8^)

    Hi,
    
    I have booked a test drive in the XR2I with the new Zeta 1800 engine
    next week - has anyone drive one yet.
    
    I am replacing a Celica and hoping to save some money by buying a
    cheaper car that's just as fast.   I am test driving the MR2 as well.
    
    jenni
     

    
    	I've driven an MR2 and I was very impressed with the cars
    performance,but as the MR2 is basically a mid-engined car you'll
    probably find it noisier than the Celica.The old XR2I,I found to be
    quite noisy also,and the performance wasn't as good as the MR2,but I
    don't know much about the new Zeta engine.
    
    			Hope this helps.
    
    		Andy ....In-a-helpful-mood-but-dislikes-Fords....
    

    I'm sure the XR2i can only be better with the Zeta engine when compared
    to the old CVH model... are you sure it is a 1.8 though? I thought the
    Fiesta RS Turbo 1.6i turbo CVH engine was being replaced by a 1.8 Zeta
    engine. Maybe the XR2i has a 1.6 Zeta ?
    
    Gary who hates Vauxhalls, right Andy :-)

    
    	I've been told that the Zeta engine is a 1.8 16v engine,which is
    supposed to be quieter and more efficient.
    
    		Andy who really can't stand Fords, 8^p.
    

    
    I Thought there was going to be two versions of the 1.8i Zeta engine,
    one rated at about 115bhp and one at 130bhp, so you would think that
    the lesser one would go in the XR2i and the other in the "RS Turbo", or
    whatever they call it.
    
    Matt.

    Re: .30
    
    jenni, when you check out the new Fiesta could you post the names of
    the new model range.
    
    I'm confused. I thought that the new zeta engined model was the RS not
    the XR2i.
    
    Roy

    
    	I'll go along with .33
    
    	The 105bhp 1.8 Zeta unit would go in the XR2i
    	and the 130bhp unit to go in the RS.
    
    	then again I could be wrong.
    
    		Tony

    
    RE.30
    		Jenni,have you thought about buying a VW Golf GTI
    16v.Surely this car has got all the qualities of the XR2I,while not
    looking as good as the MR2,will provide the power your after.There are
    very few hot-hatches that could match this,
    
    	0-60 in a little over 7 seconds
    	Top speed of around 125mph (slightly modified will do 135mph)
    	
    	I could go on forever in my jealous stupper.
    
    	Nevermind.
    			I just thought i'd try to drag you away from the
    clutches of a Ford pony(right Gary!!!! 8-p)
    			Cheers
    				Andy.
    

    I thought the Golf would be too pricey, but I might try one out after
    all.   I think I have the info on the Zeta engines at home, if so I'll
    post it.
    
    The MR2 will take some beating especially if its below 1300 cost to me.
    
    
    jenni

    I took the test drive today in a XR2i 1800 16v car.   It's 105ps, the
    RSturbo is the 130ps engine.   It was fast - and quiet running at well
    over 70, but I was not impressed with the comfort and interior.   It
    had recaro seats (why is that so important?).
    
    I won't be ordering one tho'.   It wasn't that comfortable, and the
    friend sat in the back said it had less room than the Celica in the
    back, which is hard to credit.
    
    They didn't have any brochures for it yet.
    
    I looked at a Honda Primera and may take one out, although it looks
    very like the Celica.
    
    jenni
    
    

    I don't think it will be turbocharged, just the 1.8 16v lump (130bhp).
    Can you imagine a Fiesta 1.8 16v Turbo!
    
    ..Craig 

fwiw

What Car have something set up with Ford this month. Buy What Car, ring
a number then you can arrange a 24 hour test drive of any 16v Ford.
Need the voucher that comes with What Car at the time of the test.


Greg

    
    No way a 16V turbo model Fiesta (Currently having problems with the
    EMS) being a production car. The RS turbo was planned to be replaced by
    a faster 16V zeta engine model (as of 4 months ago). but Ford is marketing
    driven not engineering driven so thats probably been scrapped.
    
    Sean 

    RE.43
    		What are the terms to this 24 hour test-drive?
    	>Do you have to be a certain age?
    	>Do you have to have been driving for s certain amount of years?
    	>Do you have to actually pretend to like Fords?
    
    	Andy.Who-doesn't-like-Fords-but-who's-game-for-a-test-drive.
    

I think you have to be over 23, with a full driving license. No you
don't even have to pretend to like fords. You just gotta buy What Car

    
    re: .43
    
    Greg, when you say "this months" What Car, is that the April or May
    issue ?
    
    Roy

May. The one with the Orion vs Astra test on the front page

Greg

     	
      Hi
    	I've got it sat here on my bench.The cars available for test are,
    Escort,orion LX,Ghia,Escort XR3I,Orion Ghia,Si,Fiesta XR2I,but not RS
    or Cabriolet models.Insurance is paid for,(Fully comp)all you need to
    do is to phone up,book the drive and go.
    	If you want my coupon give me a shout(Sadly i'm not old enough)
    
    	Cheers
    			Andy...There-had-to-be-a-string-attached...
    

    re .40
    
    Well it was red anyway!!!!!
    

    I was down at the bodyshop (Ford not aromatic perfumes & soap shop) at
    lunchtime and saw a brand spanking new Fiesta RS 1800. It was in that
    excellent dark blue metallic that the Escort RS 2000 is available in.
    Basically it is a Fiesta RS Turbo with a different engine, Escort RS 2000
    alloys and black bumper/side inserts instead of green. The interior has
    the same Recaros and same cloth trim as the turbo had. No bonnet bulges
    nor vents either :-( Chipping potential is also out the window too.
    
    Gary.

    Oh and the mirrors are colour-keyed this time too (I think).
    
    Gary.

    
    	How about fury dice? Kevin and Sharon sticker on the windscreen?
    
    	The things that Fords usually have as standard.
    
    	
    		Andy......I'm-on-form-today.
    

    >> I'm-on-form-today
    
    Is that some sort of glue ? :^)
    
    Gary.

    Are there any differences with the new engined XR2i. I mean is it
    badged differently, does it have different wheels ?
    
    Presumably both the RS and the XR2i have discreet "16v" badges on the
    back.
    
    Roy

    The new Fiesta RS 1800 has a silver badge saying so on the tailgate in
    the same style as that found on the Escort RS 2000. I didn't notice a
    16v badge, but they are usually stuck over on the right, and I only
    peeked around the left rear of the car.
    
    Looks well in that blue metallic colour alright, but could do with some
    mean bonnet vents/bulges.
    
    Gary.

    
    	The new XR2I has a few changes.The external mirrors are colour
    coded,the body now has no stripes(blue was the previous colour I
    think!),it looks as though it's had a small ripple put inn the side.
    
    	And of course the dice,and banner.
    
    	Andy....I'll-take-one-on-anyday.
    

    
    Well,where do I start.
    	I took the new XR2I 16V 105Bhp for a test drive yesterday.I just
    happened to be walking passed my local Ford dealer when I thought i'd
    ask if they had the new XR2I in.Much to my delight they did.The Woman
    showed me round the car and I asked her what see thought of it,she told
    me that she hadn't driven it yet (it only had 30 miles on the
    clock).Then she said to me "Shall we go for a spin".
    
    		This is where I eat humble pie.The car is a dream.It
    absolutely flies,it's smooth,quiet and very easy to drive.The steering
    is very light but very precise.The car is a definate for those who have
    no desire to keep there licsence.
    
    	The saleswoman was very friendly,and a loonatic driver,and now for
    the cost #11 533 pounds.And worth every penny.
    

    
    Andy,
    
    What other cars in this class have you driven?
    
    Mark

    Andy you should have asked for a blip in the Fiesta RS 1800. It should
    have even more poke. Did they have one though ? Maybe not an RS
    dealer...
    
    Gary.

    
    	RE.60
    
    	I'm a bit of a test-drive freak.I've driven a pug 205 1.6 GTI,a pug
    309 GTI,a Golf GTI 16V,MR2,MG Meastro,Escort RS turbo(chipped up),XR3I.
    
    	RE.61
    		Unfortunatly Pangbourne Ford isn't an RS dealer.I'll have
    to try another garage.
    
    
    	I'll get back to you if I succeed with the RS1800 test-drive.
    
    	Cheers
    		Andy.
    

    
    Anchor Ford in Reading (Basingstoke Road) have a gorgeous red RS 1800.
    
    Do you think Hertz would mind if I painted my stripe and door mirrors
    red ? 8^)
    
    -Tony

    RE.63 (RS 1800)
    	Tony,
    		Do you think they'd let a young boy racer like me take it
    for a test drive? Some garages are quite tight on who they allow to
    take there cars.
    
    	Anyone been to Anchor Ford for a test drive?
    
    		   Andy.....VRooooooommmm......
    

    
    I took an RS Turbo for a test drive (I'm 21). Don't see why not.
    
    (They'll probably ask you to make an appointment tho').
    
    -Tony

    
    	At lunchtime I went to Wokingham town with my friends.The guy who
    drove in to town drives an H reg XR2I.We were sat at the lights at
    Winnersh,when a Renault 11 pulls up a long side.
    			Well the outcome was that my friend is now
    receiving a great deal of stick,because the Renault pulled away at very
    high speed,leaving him with a rather red face.
    			
    		Andy...1 up for Renault........
    

    The Renault was obviously equipped with a superior Ford engine. Either
    that or the XR2i had a Renault engine ;-)
    
    Gary.

    
    Renault 11 Turbo with a chipped engine? Shouldn't be too difficult to
    produce an XR2i eater... (I bet Skoda could do it! :^)).
    
    Mark

    
    	RE.68
    
    		The Renault was just a plain old,slow,TE model.
    
    		I also agree that a skoda could chew,gobble and spit out
    the XR2I.
    
    
    		Keep'em comming Gary!!!!
    
    		Andy.....
    

    
    Well, a guy in my band has a Renault 11 TE and I am always playing
    silly buggers racing him, and always winning. Usually, I don't need to
    bother with third gear!!
    
    Sounds like your mate is driving a Popular Plus, or you're making it
    up!!
    
    -Tony (XR2's rool ok)

    
    RE.70
    
    	Tony,I can honestly promise you that I'm not telling porkies.As
    much as I love Fords.I was just so surprised that the Renault flew away
    as it did.Obviously if i'd have been in my Astra it would have been a
    different story.
    		Andy......VAUXHALL...no competition....
    

    8^)

    
    	Andy's side of the story is slightly different to
    	mine (the driver of the XR2i). The subtle differences are 
    	that 1. I was casually pulling away from the lights with very
    	        little accelerator use.
    	     2. The renault was bouncing its valves going flat out.
    
    	If I tried to race every boy racer or girl racer as it happened to
    	be, that fancied their chances, I would have to take out a contract
    	with a tyre company and Ford for new a new clutch every week.
    
    	
    		Regards Simon (who cares about his car enough not to wear
                               the rev limiter out)
    

    >> VAUXHALL no compitition
    
    Exactly, there wasn't any. Even in the wet the turbo Ford's superior 
    mid-range punch was enough to see off the Vauxhall Cavalier SRi :^)
    
    Gary.

    Thats because SRi's are total crap!

    
    Funny, I thought it was because an SRi was a four door family car
    whilst Gary's Escort is a breathed-on hot hatch! :^)
    
    Mark
    

    RE:74,75
    	
    	I couldn't agree more.The cavalier SRI is totaly useless.But the
    Astra SR isn't....8^)
    
    RE.73
    
    	Everyone loves a smart Alec.
    
    	 Regards Andy..(Who doesn't need new clutches or tyres to see off 
    			an XR2I)
    
    
    P.S.Who's not a boy racer Simon???????
    

RE: .74;

Sorry, was that mid range paunch or punch??

Mark

    yes. It was probably going too fast for you to take it in :^)
    
    Gary.

    
    
    
    I have an 89 XR2i and I have made SRi 130's and Astra SR's into little 
    Dots on my rear view mirror......Vauxhall...they are crap....
    
    As for my opinion on the XR2i......It may not be the quickest car on
    the road but I have held my own against an RS Turbo Escort, 
    Pug 205 GTi (1.9....and this is not a typo..)...this is proof that 
    Ford are moving in the right direction......
    
    What do you think of the chances of a Fiesta Cosworth..??..sounds
    Lovely to me....!!!...
    
    Arnie 
     
    
    

    
    A pint of whatever that man's drinking! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    The honest truth :-
    
    I've *BEAT* an RS Turbo Escort in my piddly 92' XR2i (not 16v).
    Once the thing got going and the Turbo kicked in it would smoke me, but
    bottom-mid range, its slooooooow and due to traffic constraints it
    didn't get a chance to. I've also smoked Peugot GTI's (1.6), the new 
    style 16v 1.6i Escort Ghia and various other fodder foolish enough to 
    cross my path.
    
    Having said that I *LOST* a race against a 1.1L Mini Metro (old shape,
    looked bog standard, doing 90mph+). It was a bit suss though considering 
    my girlfriends Metro drives like a small artic.
    
    -Tony

>>    The honest truth :-
    
    Bull !  The examples you give don't exactly prove anything, do they ?
    
    J.R.
    
    On this vein, may I point out that my CJ-7 can beat XR2's on the road ?

    
    Well, what would I have to prove by lieing (which is what you are
    accusing me of aren't you ?).
    
    Take a cold shower my friend, wake up and smell the coffee.
    -Tony 

>>    Well, what would I have to prove by lieing (which is what you are
>>    accusing me of aren't you ?).
    
    Not lying, just being rather particular with the truth.
    You did point out that traffic conditions prevented any real 'test'...
    
>>    Take a cold shower my friend, wake up and smell the coffee.
    
    Admittedly, I am tired and may have mis-read the tone of the note.
    
    J.R.
    
    PS Performance comparisons of a CJ-7 with a XR2 only applied below 30mph !

    I also pointed out I was discussing bottom-mid range.

>>    I also pointed out I was discussing bottom-mid range.
    
    How about comparing performance in the same gear and at the same revs,
    rather than at the same speed.  I'd guess that the other vehicles mentioned
    would already be travelling quicker, since they are [probably] set up
    with higher ratio final drive.  Then who's would be quickest ?
    
    Anyway, each to his own.
    
    J.R. (not a Ford fan, as pointed out in another note today)

    I know what you mean about the lack of very low down welly in the
    Escort RST, but you can feel boost developing quite low down at around
    1,500. From about 2,750 on though it's whooosh, whizzzzz stick to the
    back of your seat time :-)
    
    Gary.

    
    Fancy your chances against a 4WD Turbo Calibra, Gary? You won't win
    (given even drivers).
    
    The Fordists answer is match a Cossie against a Turbo Calibra. My point
    exactly. How can you compare a chipped RS Turbo with a bog standard
    Cavalier SRi?
    
    Mark

    Well, this topic (and much of this conference) really seems to be
    developing into a for/against Ford discussion of late.  A shame.
    
    Comments about an XR2 losing a 'race' against a Metro, or winning
    against an SRi130 are just a waste of space.  I'll avoid making any
    further replies on this sort of subject from now (which will make
    some people happy, I am sure).
    
    I have a fair idea of what is and is not a fast car.
    
    Hot hatches generally don't count - unless compared to a slow hatch...
    
    A modified car changes definitions somewhat, a different point.
    
    
    Discussions on these definitions would be fine, but I don't want to
    hear the 'my car is faster than yours' type of statements, because
    there will *always* be a quicker car around somewhere.
    
    
    J.R. (who's car is not what I would call fast either)

    
    Well I saw a Toyota Starlet beat an AC Cobra in a race once!
    
    And that's true! 
    
    Mark

    
    
    
    Could someone please inform me the prices for the new XR2i 16v
    and the RS1800.....
    
    Are they going to stop making the RS Turbo ?
    
    Have Ford modified the suspension since the XR has more power than
    before ?
    
    Has anyone driven the first XR2i/RS's and driven the new XR/RS ?
    If so, how do they compare ?
    
    Why not put a Cosworth engine into a Fiesta......Ford seem to be
    putting Cosworth engines into everything lately ? 
    
    Arnie
    
                                              

    
    re .92
    
    Yes, that's true. But those car-magazines that compare different
    cars are more reliable than those car-owners who "have beaten"
    other cars at traffic lights; it is always the matter of both
    driver and car. It needs skill to use full power.
    
    I remember one magazine compared XR2i and Fiat Uno turbo 1.3 ie.
    They were quite equal. 
    
    
    Hannu

    
    
    >> Yes, that's true. But those car-magazines that compare different
    >> cars are more reliable than those car-owners who "have beaten"
    >> other cars at traffic lights; 
    
    If that is true, why are the speed specifications on cars GREATLY
    different from magazine to magazine ?
    
    -Tony

    
    re: .96
    
    Of course they get different results! Drivers are different, driving
    conditions are different...but the comparison in one test with same
    guys testing all cars in similar driving conditions is fair, isn't it?
    
    Hannu

    
    
    Yeah, but it doesn't work like that. All you get is all these poxy
    little magazines running around saying 0-60 in blah blah blah, all
    giving big differences in times. At the end of the day it distorts the 
    truth and nobody takes a damn bit of notice as to what they say anyway. 
    
    -Tony

    I lost faith in magazine test reports after Autocar & Motor rubbished
    the Fiesta RS turbo when it first came out.
    
    They didn't like the car from from start to finish. I guess some people
    would agree with them on some of their points.
    
    However, after test drove one I liked it. Thats why I got it.
    
    Test reports are always interesting, but a personal test drive is
    essential before making any decision on a car.
    
    Roy

    
    re -1:
    
    True, but I still think they are more reliable than those people who
    like to praise their cars just because no way they would admit that
    their car is not the ultimate one in it's class.
    
    Best thing to do is listen to nobody but yourself.
    
    Hannu

    
    
    	I have an XR2i and I'm interested in lowering the suspention
    	so as to give the car better handling and  make it look
    	visually better (there is alot of space between the tyres and
    	the wheel arches). The fiesta RS Turbo looks very sporty due to
    	the fact that the wheels are closer to the arches (the wheels
    	are bigger). Does anyone see any problems I may encounter:
    	I intend to lower the car by 1.5 inches.
    
    			regards Simon

    Why not fit RS turbo wheels to start with?  They look a lot better and
    are bigger like you said.  Your car will go faster too 8-)
    
    Insurance companies like to be informed if you lower a car - it can get
    messy. (Thats assuming you will tell them) 
    
    ..Craig

    
    Depends how you go about it. Simple cutting one and a half inches off
    the existing coils is not to be advised, you're likely to compress the
    springs to fully closed or stretch them past their limit of elasticity
    when going over bumpy roads.
    
    Best bet is to buy a set of stiffened springs from somebody like Koni.
    
    Insurance companies (reputable ones) aren't too bothered about
    improvements to suspension, they are more concerned with engine
    modifications, just tell them what youv'e done.
    
    Chris
    

    Simon,
    
    When i was considering putting a 2l engine  into my old XR2 i spoke
    to  a  company  called "Power Plus Engineering". I  can't  remember
    which  topic.notenumber it  was,  but it's  well worth  speaking to
    them. They  do this  kind of thing professionally  all the time  to
    all manner of cars (Fords, VW's, Hondas...). If you cannot find the
    old note, i'll  try and find  details at  home, but don't hold your
    breath, the Fiesta was quite a while ago!!!
    
    Regards,
    
    					Lewis.

    re .105
    
    Yes acceleration would be less in the same gear, however you would be
    able to stay in a lower gear for longer.
    
    I.e. if you currently have to change out of third at 65 you might now
    be able to stay in third until 70. This would increase the acceleration
    at some speeds and would offset the loss at other speeds.
    
    Andrew

    RE: Roy Shellye's note on replacing his Fiesta RS-Turbo.
    
    Having driven Roys car, and mine, I can say that both have good amounts
    of torque at low revs. It is much nicer for town driving to drive a
    muscular small car.
    
    I think Roy will be disappointed with most of the current hot hatches,
    they may develop more power, but they do develop it at higher revs.
    
    I liked the Clio 16V, it felt right, handled better than my 5 (no mean
    feat). However, it needed to be revved much more. Lovely looking motor
    though!
    
    Mark.

    Just to add some info. on the 2l engines mentioned in .106 I've found
    the article in Car Mechanics from years ago..
    
    The address is:-
    
    	POWER ENGINEERING
    	The Power House
    	8 Union Buildings
    	Wallingford Road
    	Uxbridge
    	Middlesex
    	UB2 2FR		Tel. 0895 55699
    
    The affects of putting a 2 Litre Engine in an XR2 are:-
    
    	0-60    	7.3secs
    	Max Speed	129mph
    	Average MPG	33.0
    
    Cheers,
    
    		MattB

    RE .105
    
    I was thinking more in terms of second hand RS wheels with tyres.  I've
    seen a few sets for sale lately going for about 250ish pounds.  
    Don't forget you will be able to sell your wheels/tyres for about 170 (all 
    depends on tyre condition).
    
    You'll have an instant RS Turbo (almost)
    
    ..Craig  
    
    

    
    
    
    I just received the new Ford book and it had the new XR2i in it.
    
    The 1.8i 16v (catalyst) does 0 - 60 in 8.9 sec's and the top speed is
    only 113mph.
    
    The 16i model does 0 - 60 in 9.0 secs and the top speed is 119mph.
    
    Why is the new car slower when it has an 1.8i 16v engine and it has 14"
    wheels where the old XR2i has 13" wheels.....  I was expecting the top
    speed to be about 125mph.
    
    I personally do not think much of the new model so I think I will be
    sticking with my 89 model.
    
    Arnie.
    
    P.S. Alloy wheels & heated front windscreen are NOT standard. 
                      
    

>>    Why is the new car slower when it has an 1.8i 16v engine and it has 14"
>>    wheels where the old XR2i has 13" wheels.....  I was expecting the top
    
    This will of course depend on the diff ratio fitted, but if the
    engine doesn't have enough power, then it will have a lower top
    speed if it cannot pull the higher gearing.  Then again, maybe the
    tyres on the larger rims are of substantially lower profile (for
    looks, no doubt) and the difference in rolling radius may be minimal ?
    
    J.R.

    Well said Chris.
    
    Laurie.

What is Ford doing?

Ford purposely de-tune their engines for a number of reasons, economy
and reliability among them. How often do you see old Vauxhalls,
Rovers, Nissans, Toyotas etc... in the same proportion as old Fords?
On any day, you can still see Cortinas, early Escorts and Volkswagen
Beetles on the road being used as daily transport. This cannot be said
for Vauxhall Vivas, early Astras, Datsun Sunnys to name but a few.

Re: Ford Bashers.

Within the last month I have travelled over three and a half thousand
miles in a Ford Granada. This included a round trip from Brussels to
Sevilla, each one thousand three hundred miles leg was made virtually
non-stop, apart from petrol, toll booths and changes of driver. I have
also made similar journeys in my previous car a Ford Orion 1.6i.
Neither of them complained or showed any signs of not wanting to carry
on.

OK this is a gruelling journey, a Ford can do it. Notice I am not
saying a different make can't.
 
Comments along the lines of Ford/whatever are cr*p/sh*t are I'm sure
purely a reflection on the author's ability to make a reasoned argument
for purchasing the make of car they have and not a Ford/whatever.

I buy Fords because they have never let me down, this doesn't mean I
won't buy a different make. It just means that currently I will stay
with the Devil I know.

I challenge any one, if not all, of you Ford bashers to take my car for
a drive and tell me of any other car in its class which I could have bought
for a similar price with the same trim level, economy and comfort.

                         *PUT UP OR SHUT UP*

Chris

    Yes,
    	Why do you think I drive a Honda.
    
    	My last Civic did 65,000 miles and the only thing that needed
    replacement was one set of tyres at 52,000 miles. Everything else is
    original - OK, except for the oil filter + plugs etc.
    
    	Rik

>On any day, you can still see Cortinas, early Escorts and Volkswagen
>Beetles on the road being used as daily transport. This cannot be said
>for Vauxhall Vivas, early Astras, Datsun Sunnys to name but a few.

Guess this depends where you live. I see many, many old cars all made
by the above companies.

>I challenge any one, if not all, of you Ford bashers to take my car for
>a drive and tell me of any other car in its class which I could have bought
>for a similar price with the same trim level, economy and comfort.

Ok, you define trim level, economy and comfort. Everyone who buys a
car, buy's it for their own reasons. What you think as good trim level,
may be poor in someone else's book.

The fact is, their are people out there who like Fords, and people out
there who don't. 

Greg

Greg,

> Ok, you define trim level, economy and comfort. Everyone who buys a
> car, buy's it for their own reasons. What you think as good trim level,
> may be poor in someone else's book.

Trim Level:  Electric Windows All Round
             Electric Sunroof
             Air Conditioning
             Cruise Control
             Power Steering
             ABS
             Alloys
             Heated Seats
             Lumbar Adjustment
             RDS Radio With Seperate Equalizer Unit
             Heated Windscreen
             Electric Wing Mirrors
             Front/Rear Fog/Driving lights
             Trip Computer
             Alarm
             Graphical Display Unit (Shows status of bulbs and doors)

Economy:     30  mpg suburbs (I don't take my car into town)
             40+ mpg cruising 80ish

Comfort:     I've given my requirements as far as comfort is concerned.
             The ability to spend happily 1000+ miles/24 hours in a car.
             I do this at least four times per year.

> The fact is, their are people out there who like Fords, and people out
> there who don't. 

Just because somebody does not like a car, Ford or otherwise, does not mean
that any other make is bad.

I'm not adopting a pro-Ford anti-everything else stance. I'm pointing out
to anti-Ford noters that what they say about Ford is, in my experience,
unfound. I accept quite readily that there are good cars out there by every
manufacturer. I have never before said and never will say that a car is bad
just because it is not a Ford, neither have I said nor will I say a car is
good just because it is a Ford.

The, I can't understand why people buy X, type of reasoning reflects on the
persons inability to have open eyes. I just hope that this type of person is
never in a position of responsibility.

Chris

    Re the XR2i 1.8 16v
    
    There are 2 versions of the 1.8 16v engine, they come in 105BHP (for
    the boy racers) and 130BHP for the older more sensible drivers.
    
    Grant

    Hi Chris,
    
    I didn't want to get into a spec argument, either, just pointing out
    people's definitions vary.
    
    I put the note in a few back saying the Ford Escort I had was cr*p. Now
    I'm not saying all Fords are cr*p, I'd love a Cosworth, or a Granada
    with all the gizmo's your has got.
    
    What I would say, was in my price bracket <14,500, Ford didn't have a
    look in!
    
    
    Greg
    
    IMHO of course

    
    Forgot to mention the spec is standard. This is why I don't believe in
    price comparisons of cars between the UK and the rest of Europe.
    
    If you haggle you can get good deals on large cars. It has something to
    do with the general belief that they guzzle gas and the popularity of
    so called hot hatches, give me comfort any day.
    
    I paid a lot less than 14,500, but then it was almost a year old. While
    I was looking I saw a 2 year old Jaguar saloon for 10,000 in a Jaguar
    dealer's showroom.
    
    Chris
    

    
    I drove a Granada Scorpio once. It was horrible. Barge like handling,
    non-communicative steering and poor build quality (on what was a >20K
    car). I would suspect (I'm not saying for certain, as I don't know)
    that Audi, Vauxhall, Rover, Alfa Romeo, BMW etc could all compete very
    effectively with THAT car at the price.
    
    Now, I'm not saying that my subjective opinions are going to match with
    everyone's view of what makes a good car (Chris, you are obviously very 
    satisfied with your Ford), but whenever I've driven or travelled in a
    Ford I've come away dissapointed (I've never driven a Cosworth,though!
    :^))
    
    Mark

    
    
    RE: .119
    
    The 1.8 16v (130BHP) is the engine that Ford are putting into the 
    Fiesta RS1800.
    
    The XR2i is to get the 105BHP Engine.
    
    Arnie
    
    
    

Just read a Performance Car report of the 24v Scorpio which was very positive.
main thing they didn't like was the "image" of the car. Otherwise they rated it 
well against the V6 Audi and Saab 2.3 Turbo.

    
    REPLY TO 1631.102
    
    I've eventually had my suspension lowered on my XR2i.
    Its been lowered by 1 inch.
    It has made the visual appearance of the car much more sporty.
    The difference in handling is amazing : the body roll has been reduced
    and the road holding is brilliant.
    I was going to lower the car by 2 inches but this would have altered
    the angle of the drive shafts too much so giving premature wear to the
    bearings, so 1 inch it was.
    The car is a little noisier, not sure why.
    But I am pleased with the mod.
    
    ...Simon

I would be very careful with lowering suspension,  did the installer adjust the 
camber angle to take account of the new smaller strut length?  

It could cost you a lot of money in tires!!!  (It cost me a lot!!!)

_Richard

    
    All that was changed were the springs, so the strut length should
    be the same. The tracking was readjusted  after fitting of the springs.
    Had I lowerwed the car by 2 inches then the camber of the tyres may 
    have caused premature wear. But I don't think an inch will make to
    much differnce.
    
    
    ....Simon
    

    
    Last weekend I treated my car with redex.
    I removed the spark plugs and poured some down into the cylinders.
    This is supposed to clean the carbon off the piston tops.
    I went a little crazy and started the engine up with out the air filter
    casing on and poured redex into the inlet manifold of the injection
    unit. I thought that this would clean the injection system.
    
    But after all this the engine now idles at 1500 rpm.
    Does any one know why this might be ?
    Has the redex blocked any holes or anything?
    Is there any way of altering the idling speed with out taking it to an
    injection spcicialist.
    
    
    ..Simon

    
    I adjusted the base idle screw so that the engine idled at 900 rpm
    after consulting an injection scecialist.
    I also cleaned out the idle speed mechanism which was full of carbon.
    The car now idles perfectly.
    
    note.
    The car has a motion sensor which increases the idle speed when the car
    is moving and decreases it when the car is at a stop.
    
    ...Simon

RE: Faster idle when moving.

Wow, what a good idea.

    
    A faster idle speed when moving means that when the car is moving and 
    the clutch is engaged the revs stay at a higher level as a pose to
    dropping to the stationary idle speed. This was probably encorporated
    into the design of the engine management to make the car less easy to
    stall whilst travelling very slowly.
    
    My friends XR3i was prone to stalling if you didn't pick the revs up
    sufficiently when pulling away ; Ford probably recognised this as a
    fault which could be rectified and did something about it on the new
    engine management systems by including the motion sensor on the
    gearbox, which signalled the above procedure. 
    My opion anyway.
    
    
    ...Simon

    
    I am hoping to get two canoes this summer and I'm not sure where to
    aquire a roof rack with some sort of device for holding the canoes
    securely.
    Has anyone any ideas of where I could purchase a roof rack of this
    description. I have a 1990 XR2i.
    
    ...Simon

    
    
    Try a  bike shop. Check out Yakima racks. They make accessories for 
    canoes, kayaks, skis, boxes, bikes, etc. They have custom clips
    to attach very securely to most vehicles. 
    
    
    

    Try MARSPORTS at Cemetry Junction in Reading, they specilize in canoeing 
    and produce their own range roof rack attachments for securing canoes to the
    roofs of cars in ever increasing multiples. Their number is 0734 665912 
    (they are closed on Monday's and normally open at 10am) ask for Paul.
    
    Neil

    
    Phil is just across the office, but for the benefit of others :-
    
    The only way you'll get back to the right number of keys (probably 2
    anyway) will be to go for a set of locks... very expensive.
    
    I tried this many years back, and as you can't order a lock with a
    specific key/lock number the only way to do it is to order a set.
    
    BTW, if it has got more keys than it should have, there are two options
    - either a previous owner had a new Petrol cap fitted, or more likely
    it's been nicked and had new door locks fitted.
    
    Graham

    I can confirm that on a Fiesta, one key should operate all doors
    (including tailgate), ignition and petrol lock.
    
    This would suggest a rear end prang with the need to fit new locks.
    
    How much did you pay for it out of interest ?
    
    Royston  (suspicious mind)

    
    Another, less worrying reason, may be that some 'person' tried to force
    the hatchback (or maybe both door) lock and ruined it leading to the
    replacement of the lock (or locks).
    
    Mark

The last time I had a Ford, it could be opened up and driven off with
a Morris Marina key...

I'd plump for the Marina, personally.

    
    When I used to drive Escorts I was always locking the keys inside but I
    never had to call out the AA/RAC. I would just stop the next motorist
    and kindly ask if I could borrow their keys to open my door. Other
    Fords worked every time & Vauxhall / BLs etc were pretty safe
    bets.....so my advice is just chuck 2 of the keys away & keep the
    petrol cap key which should work all the locks & ignition. 8-)
    
    JBG

    I have a problem that has just surfaced from my XR2i, and I was
    hoping someone could help!.
    
    When pulling away or driving slowly, a squeeking sound and a sound of
    rubber rubbing like creaking.
    
    I have been told that a rubber mount has worn, and the bearings are
    dry.
    If it is a rubber mount how can I fix this!. I was also told Ford
    are bad for this. my car is a 1989 G with 64,000 miles covered, I 
    have had it for 18 months.
    
    
    Martin