Conference 7.286::home_work

    I  use next unseen to read notes in this file.  I also use the 
    directory in 1111.* if i am looking for information on something.
    
    mike
    

    I use next unseen in the batch extract, very convienent way to do it.
    John

    I use "NEXT UNSEEN" for general reading to follow what going on
    in HOME_WORK.
    
    Just as an aside...I'll say that qwuestions/inquiries I've posted
    as replies to existing topics get the same "favorable" reply rate
    as questions asked as new topics.  So.......I have NO problem with
    the MOD's writelocking "redundant" topics.  
    
    Keep up the good work!!

    I use next unseen all the time.  Also use the directories (although
    I have been known to screw up and enter a new unnecessay note
    occasionally 8-).
    
    George
    

    Yes, I use it and as an aside I believe this is the best run conference
    I've come across.
    
    Brian
    

I use NEXT UNSEEN for ALL conferences I access... how else can I see 
what's new since the last time I accessed the conference ??

Keep up the good moderation.

Arlan

I use NEXT UNSEEN when reading this and most other conferences.

This conference is run very well.  Keep up the good work.

-Mike

    Another NEXT UNSEEN user.  But you almost didn't get a reply to the
    question as I pressed it by habit.  Good thing there's also previous
    message above next unseen.
    
    On another subject, I think we need a single note for stuff that
    people want to sell and...  Shields up :-)
    

I use next unseen all the time in the conference. As a matter of fact I usually
don't reply to a new topic note for a few days because most of the time the
question or topic is somewhere else. I wait for it to be moved before I reply.

I very much like the way this conference is run.

						Bill

P.S. I guess that I replied to this new note before wainting a few days,
but I know the person who originally asked the question. I know he wouldn't
open up a new note if it was allready being discussed.....

    Me too!

    I also use NEXT UNSEEN and use the keyword directory when looking for
    information or a place to ask a question.
    
    However, my one gripe is that I don't care for "votes" like this where
    one is invited to reply to the note.  This sort of poll should be
    conducted by MAIL, so as not to clutter up the file with information
    of limited usefulness!  I think the moderators should do something
    about this! :-)
    
    						Steve

    I use it...
    
    Edd

    Al the time....
    			Kirk

I use next unseen.  I also find it useful for skipping over notes like this one.

As for the moderating standard set by this conferences, when I hired a guy to
run a notes conference for VAX Document (among other support tasks) I pointed
him directly at this file as an example of how to do the job.

next unseen user

Dave

    I use it.  I also support the write locking of repetitive entries and
    even moving them under the appropriate note.
    

    Me too. Only way to go.
    
    John

    
    I use next unseen. I agree with every moderation policy you've adopted.
    
    CdH
    

Yep, me too.  Your doing a good job.

al
    

    Always use next unseen.  Moderator control is appropriate level,
    thanks.
    

    Press here
    
    Jim

I use next unseen for all the conferences I read or participate in.  The only
way to go.

- Mark

    Just as important is those people who read/reply on a regular basis who
    do NOT use Next Unseen.  This will help make the poll more of a
    "temperature gauge" of those "for" and those "against".

I use next unseen all the time.  I also vote with general consensus that the 
moderators do an outstanding job.  This is one of the best run conferences that
I've been in.  

Anyone who does not use next-unseen is probably missing most of the information
in this or any other conference.  All that wasted time re-reading older topics
and replies to find the unseen replies...

I'd like to go as far and say that "Anyone who doesn't use next-unseen doesn't
know how to use NOTES", but I'm sure that someone would flame me :-)

    I use it. I also appreciate the excellent moderation of this
    conference.
    
    John H.

    No other way...
    

    It also shows that you are a good manager of your time.....
    

< Note 3714.0 by BEING::WEISS "Trade freedom for security-lose both" >
                          -< Do you use next unseen? >-

>>If you use next unseen, either in normal reading or by batch extract, could you 
>>please just post a reply to this note? 

Yes, I do use "next unseen"; greatly reduces the chance of chaos.......

    Yep!
    

re Note 3714.0 by BEING::WEISS:

> Lately I've had a couple of people who have been pointed off to old notes 
> claim that no one uses next unseen.  I beleive this to be untrue, at least for 
> the people who are likely to answer questions in this file.

        I read at least one of those notes that complained "no one
        uses next unseen", but I think that that may not be the
        problem that they are really complaining about.

        I note that keywords are only used on topic notes (.0), not
        on replies.  While for some discussions this might be
        adequate, it probably isn't for many of them.  And if one
        uses "show keyword", they just get pointed off to some of the
        oldest notes for a topic.

        To answer a question not asked:  I don't generally use the
        directory notes (1111.*).  I use batch procedures for general
        conference searching, and they are designed to work with
        conferences in general.

        (Besides, for those who don't know my work orientation, I'm
        one of those "automatic indexing/full text search"
        iconoclasts who views manual indexing as a dinosaur. :-})

        Bob

	Well, it could be just the Statistics class I'm currently taking
	that makes me respond this way, but what constitutes a succesful
	poll?  

	By just asking for "Yes" answers, all you've shown so far is that
	33 people out there in there in the world use Next Unseen.
	Is this significant?  There's no way of knowing.

	(I happen to NOT use next unseen, primarily because I don't have
	the time to read through a lot of responses I don't care about.
	I do use note 1111 when I am looking for information on a particular
	subject.  When looking for further information on a subject which
	may originally have been posted several years ago, there is the
	potential to miss valuable answers from people who also don't use
	Next Unseen.  However, I agree the conference is well organized and
	moderated, so I'm not complaining, mind you.)

	-gary

	34 replies...  So here's another:

	I use a batch mailer, and skim the directory it prepends to the daily
	(large) Homework mailing, which approximates "next unseen".

	When using Notes, I use "next unseen" so automatically, I sometimes
	wish I hadn't.  We need a "recently seen" command...

	Regards, Robert.

Yes, I use it too...

but Paul...  in all fairness... Are you REALLY :-) expecting anyone to
FIND AND ANSWER this note and say that they DON'T use Next Unseen? The
typical Non-Next-Unseen-User or (NNUU) is not in this file reading
every note sequentially, they are usually looking for a specific piece
of info and probably won't come accross this note unless they DO USE
Next Unseen. 

What they, the NNUUs, don't realize though is that you are doing them
a favor by write locking these redundant notes and keeping the
discussions from spreading too far and too thin. 

Another thing that the recent Air-Conditioning note writer doesn't
realize is that he doesn't have to wait for answer to HIS note... the
information that he is looking for is probably ALREADY in the file
just waiting for him to find it and read it. 

You and the file are doing just FINE, You just can't please everyone. 
Keep up the GOOD work.

Charly

I normally use Next Unseen, unless I'm actualy researching something.
Keep up the good work.

    I use next unseen.  I think the moderators in this conference do
    a terrific job!!

    I use NEXT UNSEEN in all conferences I follow.
    
    Only way to go - and for those conferences I don't follow
    "regularly", I always make an effort to abide by the rules
    of that conference.  Simple as that.
    
    andy
    
    

    I use next unseen, too.

    I use next unseen all the time. It allows me to skip notes that
    I am not intersted in. 

    	I use it frequently...
    
    Ken

    I use next unseen,

    	But - I didn't for my first couple of years of noting because it
    takes much longer than just looking at the new (highest number) notes.
    You do pick up replies to older notes, but you end up seeing a lot that
    you don't really want to, which you can avoid by picking note titles in
    the directory.  I wish there was a command to delete note numbers from
    future scans.

    I must cast a dissenting opinion on the moderation: I much prefer the
    conferences where the moderator moves notes into the proper note as a
    reply, rather than write-locking. That's less heavy handed. There's got
    to be a middle ground between HOME_WORK and FELINE and I think CARBUFFS
    and MECHANICS come the closest. (FELINE is undermoderated, with many
    repeats of the same questions/topics.)   - Chris

                One previous reply said and a few others implied that
        Next Unseen wasn't the "cure all" that it is cracked up to be.
        Of course it alone isn't (although it goes a looooooong way). 
                
                If you look at the definitions of Next Unseen (keypad
        ,), next reply (keypad 3) and the keypad Enter key (it does many
        things depending on context) and understand them; then you have
        a very powerful set of controls for noting.
                
                When I teach someone who is new to notes how to use it,
        I emphasize those three keys and also add about 5 others in a
        low key way. It seems to work.
                
                As might be obvious by now - I use N U!
                
                /s/     Bob

    I use NEXT UNSEEN while reading this conference.  I do this primarily
    because I enjoy the discussions and keep up with this conference
    frequently.  There are many other conferences that I use only as a
    reference source and avoid using NEXT UNSEEN. It would take a
    significant amount of effort to wade through 3-6 months of notes since
    the last time I needed to use that reference.  

    I would guess that there are two kinds of readers:
    	a) Devoted readers that follow the discussions frequently and
    	   use Next Unseen.
    	b) Reference readers that only enter this conference to get a 
    	   single piece of information and see an unseen count in the
    	   1000's.

    -JFK- (shouldn't this survey be done off line via mail?)

    I have tried using next unseen but am quickly discouraged when
    I see we are up to 3714 topics and the first time I use NU I am
    back to somewhere in feb 86'. I end up as one of the previous replies,
    said they use:
    Notes> dir 3700-* for all the latest topics.
    
    Drew (who always gets write locked)
    

Dissenting to the dissention...

Until recently (this week, in fact) our cluster had not updated to notes 2.0, 
so we didn't have SET NOTE /NOTE_ID.  We (the members of this file) decided a 
while back that it took too much moderator time to extract, delete, move, and 
repost notes.  But we (the moderators) just privately agreed to change the
policy on misplaced contractor requests and for sale ads so that now we move
the notes (using SET NOTE /NOTE_ID) and then send mail to the authors informing
them of where their note went. 

But duplicates don't work quite the same way.  The majority of duplicate 
questions asked in this file are already answered, not just asked.  Probably 
10-20% of the notes locked as duplicates are re-entered in the old notes.  If 
the notes are just moved, then the question will often be asked immediately 
following the answer.

Also, there is rarely exactly one note that is an appropriate duplicate.  In
those cases it would be possible to move the note, but it's more often true
that there are several notes which could be appropriate, and I as a moderator
am not going to choose which one.  First, it would take too much time to read
the notes and find which is the most appropriate.  And second, the person who
wrote the original won't know about the others, which might be where their
question is already answered. 

Plus, if you move the note, it is still counted as SEEN.  If members of the 
file who have an answer to a question hold up on that answer until they see 
what is going to happen to it, they'll never see it again when it moves to its 
new home, and thus never enter their answer.

And then there is the (not infrequent) case where we as moderators are WRONG.
The note *should* be a new note.  It's easier to leave it where it is.

Anyway, back to NEXT UNSEEN

Paul

The reason I'm doing this here instead of offline via mail is so I can point 
future people who complain about it off to this note...

Paul

I always use next/unseen.  I was a little surprised to see the assertion that
it has been "proven" that most people don't.

				>>>==>PStJTT

    Me too.
    

I always use next unseen with this conference and use it with most other
conferences as well. I can't see any reason NOT to use it.  If the conference
has a lot of notes that I haven't seen, I simply do a SET SEEN and read the
old notes at my leisure.  I can then use next unseen to keep up with the 
current discussions.

Mark Parenti

    Always....

I always use next unseen -- usually I read all newly opened topics every 
couple of days.  That is a great way to gain a general eductaion on how
to do it yourself, aide from the chance to sound off on topics I think
I know omething about.

	Larry Seiler

    ME TOO
    
    john who_hates_replies_that_only_say_ME_TOO
    

    I use it.  I frequently move notes in REAL_ESTATE in an attempt to keep
    things semi-organized.  I then send mail to the author stating the new
    location of the note.
    
    Every so often I get hate mail (like the A/C one) that basically says:
    	"How dare you move my note?  Do you expect anyone to answer my
    	 request if it is a reply to a base note dated <some_time_in_the_past>?
    	 I want it to show up immediately when someone does a DIR LAST-1"
    
    These burn me up!  So keep up the good work here.
    
    -al (REAL_ESTATE moderator)

    .0:
    
    Some people don't understand how NEXT UNSEEN works, and how it's
    intended to be used.
    
    Some people don't understand how "NOTES" works, and how it's intended
    to be used.
    
    The "NEXT UNSEEN" command is of use if you don't intend to read the
    next N replies (which you haven't read yet), not now, not ever;  it
    will mark them all as "seen" so you won't trip over them later in this
    session, or in the future.  (I can honestly say that I managed to screw
    myself up a few times before I re-read the documentation and
    comprehended precisely what it did.)
    
    You can, of course, use it when you've hit the very last reply to a
    note, to find the next one you haven't seen -- in this case, ENTER and
    NEXT UNSEEN are going to do the same thing.  (See the help text
    generated by hitting HELP on any terminal/terminal-emulating device
    that has an LK201 keyboard.)  In such a case, what else would you do?
    Try "NEXT NOTE"?  "LAST NOTE"?  Good luck to you, if you are actually
    desiring to see if there are any more interesting replies.
    
    I submit that the question, as based on the (dubious) statements made
    to Paul, is poorly phrased, and I'm tempted to read between the lines
    and leap to some conclusions unintended by those noters.  My opinion
    is that they believe that there are two kind of readers of this file:
    one kind, those who keep it in their notebook, check the "unread" count
    periodically (once a week or more frequently, perhaps even daily), and
    if they don't read each note, at least they read a note in each topic
    and *then* say to themselves "Oh, I don't have an electric hot-water
    heater, so I'll NEXT UNSEEN this one";  the other kind probably doesn't
    keep this file in their notebook, nor "keeps up" on discussions, but
    pops in to look for a particular topic, problem, solution, discussion,
    whatever, and nothing outside of that thing is of any interest
    whatsoever.  And these people believe that there are a very small
    number of the first kind of noter (for this file, at least), and almost
    all the readership is of the second kind.
    
    All this, of course, ignores things like DIRECTORY/KEYWORD, and also
    the greeting provided when one opens the file;  it also suggests to me
    that those who gripe would profit by acquiring (and reading!) the
    fine manual for Notes.
    
    Dick (who uses NEXT UNSEEN for uninteresting things like heating
    systems not used in his place, and wishes he'd used it on the tirades
    mentioned in .0)

    I have to agree with .a-few-back that a great deal of people do not
    understand what NEXT UNSEEN does (or that it is on the keypad).  So I
    think education is the answer :-)
    
    So is this waste of space note on "Do you use next unseen" and all of its
    "yes I do" replies going to be deleted?

Is there any other way? ;^)
I read several notes files and NONE even approach the organization here.
Don't change a thing!

    I use "Next Unseen" constantly.  Whenever I log in here, I use it
    until I find a subject I'm interested in.  Then I use the next reply.
    
    Keeps me up to date.  How else could anyone stay current in here?
    
    Lee

       I always use it!
                                       Denny

    I always use it, and I like the way this conference is run.
    
    Dale

I always use NEXT UNSEEN when I read notes interactively, there's no other 
way to get thru everything in short order. As far as the attacks on the 
moderators, I think that was *_WAY_* out of line, uncalled for, and 
unprofessional. This has GOT TO BE one of the best moderated conferences 
around that I have read and those comments were not necessary. The only 
ways this file will be organized and kept in a logical fashion is for the 
moderators to keep some semblance of order here. 

    Vic H

I use next unseen to follow what's going on.  I also use keywords and note
1111.* regularly.

Keep up the good work!
Tom

    I use  next  unseen when reading, and the directories when looking
    for  specific  information.  It  works  wonderfully,  please don't
    change the moderating style.

--David

Yup, I use NEXT UNSEEN all the time.....

			-- Stan

I've next unseened past this note about 6 times now.

>If you use next unseen, either in normal reading or by batch extract, could you 
>please just post a reply to this note? 

     Yes, I do.

	About 70 times on this topic alone  -  so far, I'm sure there 
will be plenty more opportunities.

	R

    
    I've used NEXT UNSEEN too many times on useless topics like this one.
    This conference must have a lotta spare disk space to waste.
    Can you say "WRITE LOCK"? (I knew you could... ;^) ). Why was this
    topic started in the first place (besides making everyone aware of
    the benefits of NEXT UNSEEN in actual use, by having to repeatedly
    use it on this topic...)
    
    Signed,
    
    Pondering_NEXT_UNSEEN_and_wondering_why_topics_like_this_get_started_at_all
    
    ;^) :-) 8^P

	I always use "Next Unseen" - unless I am searching for a particular
	reference/note

	And a 1,000 thankyous to the moderators for doing such an excellant job.

	Also another 1,000 thankyous for keeping Home_Work open/on-line from
	the scare a few weeks back, would have hated to see it go, maybe would 
	have stoped doing jobs around the house! (Wife would have killed me!)

    
    I use it.
    
    Ray

    
    Next Unseen ALLLLL the time
    
    steve
    like right know

    I use next unseen all of the time, as well as the 1111.* directory when
    I am looking for something specific.
    
    Ed
    

    ditto on .81
    
    Elaine
    

    Always.  Is there another way (especially if one reads more than one
    notes file).
    
    -Bob

    I use it, ken

      I found this entry using NEXT UNSEEN.

I use NEXT/UNSEEN

I use NEXT UNSEEN.

    I use NEXT UNSEEN
    
    Ed
    

    
    Me also.
    
    		Joe

Yep, I use Next_Unseen.

    I do  - always.
    
    
    -Mark

    I use it and I like the way this conference is run (and I am even
    trying to immitate it on conferences I moderate!!)
    
    jeff
    

    Well moderated conference.
    
    I never use next/unseen.  I reset my mail profile so that I get
    the result of "dir/last" when I enter the file.  I scan the new
    topics for things of interest.  I use 1111.* when I'm trying to
    solve a problem, and sometimes use Search *.  But next/unseen throws
    me into too many old topics I'm not interested in, and I find it
    wastes too much time.
    
    And, hey, I kinda resent the implications that we who don't use
    NU are barbarians who don't know how to use Notes!  I think it's
    a great tool for work files on topics where you don't want to miss
    a single entry.  But for casual reading it may not be the most
    effective way, especially in big conferences.  So cut some slack,
    you NU fans!!
    
    Sherry

... now I don't read every day.

I think this note has provided the data point that was sought.

So, how about deleting it!!!!!!!!!!!    

    Use "NEXT UNSEEN" as well.

    
    Absolutely, ya crazy or somethin ???
    
    I don't have the time now to spend reading all the replies.  I scan the
    title and latest reply and hit next unseen a lot.

    >I don't have the time now to spend reading all the replies.  I scan the
    >title and latest reply and hit next unseen a lot.
    
    					Steve

    Next unseen is the only way, after Keywords, of course.
    
    Jacquie

    I use NEXT UNSEEN all the time......
    
    - Diane
    

    I also use next unseen...BUT, as an aside, what if I'm in the middle of
    a long note and the phone rings/I have something else to do/whatever,
    can I mark the note so that I can read it again as I would using next
    unseen?

    Yes, you can simply type MARK HOLDER or some other name and then do a
    SHO MARK later and press KP7 to go to that marker.  Markers are very
    useful if there are only a few notes you wish to follow in a large
    conference.
    
    Dave

    use next unseen lately just in normal reading, but have and expect
    to use in batch extract
    

    Next Unseen?  sure - Is there any other rational way to do it?
    

    I use "next Unseen" in all conferences.  Echoing previous replies,
    this is one of the very best run conferences. Keep it up.
    
    Chuck
    

    I use next unseen and the directory in 1111.*
    
    Michelle

    I use next/unseen about 95% of the time.  Merely stopped here after
    reading the base note...didn't read any of the 114 replies.
    
    	Ted

    A little late, but I haven't been in this noye for awhile. But I always
    use Next Unseen. And if I haven't been in a note in a long time, and
    that note has a lot of traffic, I'll SET SEEN/BEFORE=one week. Then
    I'll browse using NEXT UNSEEN.
    
    Regards,
    
    Rick

    I use next unseen and the directories in 1111.
    michael

    I use NEXT UNSEEN too.
    

    In this notes file NEXT UNSEEN is a must for me!!
    
    kevin
    

	You mean there's another way to read notes?!?!


						-sjk

    Ditto!
    
       REK

    This is a trick question, isn't it ?
    
    Dwight (yep, keypad "," is indented in my right middle finger)

I always use NEXT UNSEEN, but a strange thing has been happening when my
nightly NOTES_MAIL.COM procedure starts to extract all the UNSEEN HOME_WORK
notes. The problem is that periodically my command procedure extracts the
*entire* notes conference and mails it to me.  In fact, it has done this a
couple of times in duplicate -- I received two mail messages each containing
the entire file!. Luckily, I've deleted these files before my system
manager noticed how much space I was taking up.

This is the line in my command procedure that opens the HOME_WORK notes
conference and extracts all the UNSEEN notes.

OPEN HOME_WORK/NOAUTOMATIC
EXTRACT [gil_passolas]note.dat *.*/ALL/SEEN/UNSEEN

I have been using this command procedure for over a year now to extract
several conferences, but only just started having trouble extracting notes
from the HOME_WORK conference. Another person on my node has the same
problem.  We're not sure on which end the hangup is, but it *is* curious. 
I don't have the same problem extracting other notes conferences with the
same command procedure, but since my procedure hangs up on HOME_WORK, I
usually end up deleting the job from the batch queue and starting it up
again.

So, each day I open HOME_WORK, and each day it puts me at the first note in
the conference (1985?). So, I type SET SEEN, and hope that the extraction
will run okay the next day -- it usually doesn't.  I then do the same thing
all over again.

Any ideas?

Diana

    Aren't /ALL and /UNSEEN at cross-purposes?
    
    Dick

	The batch extractor I use has a count limit.

	Every so often, it reports that Homework has too many unseen
	notes.  I then find the unseen map (or whatever it is...) claims
	I've seen no notes.

	I can't say for sure whether I've seen this with other conferences.
	Maybe it has something to do with size.

	I use MAIL_VAXNOTES.COM, which I think I found in the toolshed.
	I found it several years ago, so I don't remember where.

	Regards, Robert.

re Note 3714.123 by CADSYS::GIL_PASSOLAS:

> The problem is that periodically my command procedure extracts the
> *entire* notes conference and mails it to me.  In fact, it has done this a
> couple of times in duplicate -- I received two mail messages each containing
> the entire file!. 

        I've noticed that, occasionally, when the network link goes
        down or Notes crashes (e.g., the system is shut down) during
        an operation like an EXTRACT, all notes are left "unseen."

        Bob

I tried using extract/unseen/seen on a batch job that I run on classified
ads, and the very first time I tried it, I got no notes extracted, but 
the entire file (I think) marked unseen.  So much for that command.
This was during the day, so maybe the link went down during the extract
attempt.  I run an batch extract nightly (without /seen) and I've never 
had all the notes in the file left unseen, although I'd assume that it
has crashed during the extract at least once.  So I suppose /seen is
the culprit.

	Larry