Conference 7.286::home_work

    I have just bought a 3.2 acre building lot that is completely
    wooded, and I am looking at different brands of chain saws.  
    The majority of the trees are around 12" since the land was cleared
    in '71.  I can get a good deal on a Shindiawa chain saw but, I have
    never heard of them.  Parts are available, so that is not a problem
    in the near future.  Can anybody tell me if these saws are any good???
    
    
    
    Don

    Check out DELNI::TOOLS (hit KP7 to add it to your notebook).  I think the
consensus there was that the best saws are the big three - Stihl, Husqvarna
and Jonsereds (in no particular order).  Somebody-or-other White, in Nashua,
has all three brands.  I don't recall much discussion on your brand.

    
    
   re: .1
    
    the Big three also mean big bucks and some of them are real mean
    machines. --- BUT --- don't let the $$ frighten you. The most expensive
    tools in your box are the ones you don't have or the wrong ones
    for the job. If you want to clear this lot yourself get a good name
    brand saw that has the right size bar for what you will be cutting.
    For trees that average 12" dia. you will want at least a 16" bar.
    Also, don't get the homeowners model. Go with an industrial machine.
    For the amount of cutting you describe it would be worth it plus
    when you finnish, if you don't have a wood stove resale value will
    still be there. 
    
    A cheap saw or cheap chains will cause more problems than they cure
    and may even lead to accidents. 
    
      

    My dad operated a one-man sawmill operation all his adult life.
    He cut down trees and stockpiled them all summer (when sunny) and
    sawed them into lumber all winter.  He would own nothing but a
    HOMELITE.  He bought a McColough (sp?) once (and only once). I own
    a HOMELITE 16".  It is a pleasure to use.

    re .3
    
    No doubt your dad had an older Homelite model (blue in color), because
    the recent Homelites suck. 
    
    Even a friend of my dad who sold them and repaired them for a full
    time business agrees that their quality has gone way down. I remember
    reading somewhere that Homelite recognizes this problem and is trying
    to rectify it.
    
    Steve

    I agree with .-1  No reflection on .-2's dad.  I own a Mculloch
    and would not recommend it.  The only reason I bought it was that
    it was the biggest machine I could get and handle with one hand.
    I could hold the limb with the other.  (It's more dangerous but
    can be done if your careful.  Oh God please don't barrage me with
    "I'd never do that" $SET RATHOLE/CLOSED.)
    
    I now have a STIHL, 16" bar and it just dannces around what I used
    to be able to do with the MAC.
    
    I now take my Dad's sage advice with a grain of salt.  In this era
    of hi-tech and quality imports times have changed.  Some things
    don't change like your attitude towards things.  Tools have.

	I own a older Homelite 16" (8 years red in color) that I inherited 
from my Dad, and neither my father or I have had any trouble with it. 
In fact my father replaced it with a Stihl yet still has me bring it along 
when he's cutting trees on the farm.
	This is not an endorsement for Homelite! as I've looked at the 
new models and don't care much for them.


	While I'm here...
	
	I do have one problem with use of my saw. Seems I can't remember
what the GAS/OIL mix ratio is. The last time I made up 2 gallons was about
2 years ago and had trouble finding out then.
	Does any one know what the ratio is for this size/age saw is?
I seem to remember 16/1 or 4/1 or 32/1, but they are very different and I don't
want to make a mistake.
	Oh by the way I do not have the manual lost many years ago.

			...thanks...
				
					...Dave

    I went last night to R.H. White Equipment Center in Nashua and bought
    a Husqvarna model 50.  I try it out and they adjusted the carb before
    I left.  I tried it out at home also, it cuts like the proverbial
    hot knife through butter.  I also got one of those helmets with
    the ear muffs and the face shield.  Thanks to the info given here
    and in other places, I avoided the Shindaiwa saw and got the same
    size (.1 cu. in. bigger) husky for $9 more money.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Don

    For the right mix ratio, just go to your friendly hardware store
    and get the small cans of oil (1/2 pint I think), pour it into a
    gallon can and fill the can with gas.  If you are too cheap to pay
    for those little bitty cans, find out how much they hold and mix
    your own.
    
    My Dad used to use the old Homelites, true, but they were red or
    red and green.  He always had two or three around and fixed them 
    himself.  He even filed the chains himself.  He only took them to 
    be serviced if he couldn't fix them himself (unusual).  He, of course, 
    got the BIG mothers that would handle a BIG oak.  
        
    I got the 16" Homelite for weight considerations, as well as my
    fathers history of use.  I can use it with one hand while up a tree
    hanging on with the other.  (I know, kill the safety lecture!) I
    am normally very safe, but you can't do everything safely all the
    time.  I have a very healthy respect for chainsaws.  They are without
    doubt the most dangerous power tool.  Besides, I have spent more of 
    my time in trees than most people have spent on the ground.  I used 
    to say "my father was a monkey, and don't think it wasn't hard on 
    my mother".  My shirt sleeve is 36" if that gives you any clue.
    
    Stan

        I too went to R. White and bought a Husqvarna 40, and I've used it
        for about 4 hours so far.  It runs great, and cuts through
        hardwoods like a champ.  It's got a 15" bar, which is fine for
        what I need, mostly cutting up firewood. 
        
        White's also carries Stihl, Jonserred, Poulan, and Olympik.  He
        used to carry Shindaiwa, but told me that he had had bad luck with
        the brand and didn't bother with it any more. 
        
        He has the Huskys on sale through the end of the month, so if you
        are looking to get one, now's the time to act.  He also has a
        selection of used saws, logsplitters, Kubota generators, and some
        mowers and snow throwers (I think he handles Simplicity). 
        
        Tom

    I'd go with the Husky if I was buying another saw.  
    
    If their saws are as good as their dirt bikes you will have a real
    long lasting reliable machine.  I've owned many dirt bikes over
    the past 12 years and the last two Husqvarnas have been exceptional.
    
    If you shop N.H. you'll save the sales tax but if you must buy in
    Mass a good choice would be Joe Morel's Husky Dealer on RT 1 in
    
    North Attleboro.
    

    I agree that the 3 choices for saws are Stihl, Huskvarna and Jonsereds
    (which is made by Husky.)
    

    Well, I have to get my 2 cents in....
    
    The Shindis are an excellent saw.. .I will put the models up against
    any Sthil, Huski, Jonsi, and it will perform equally if not better.
    
    
    The secret is the promo pricing and a 2 year warranty. You cna't
    beat the price. 
    
    How do I know ?? 
    
    I sell the things on the weekend and get to see the returns, not
    to mention the units running. 
    
    I particularly like the idle adjustment for the Shindi. You can
    actually adjust..
    
    As far as cutting is concerned it depends on the type of chain being
    used and the power driving it.  The bar size is only an issue when
    determining what you cut....
    
    Merle

re .6:

	I think a suggested mixing ratio is given on the oil container.  
I've been using Jonsereds "super two cycle oil", which claims it may be 
diluted 32:1 for "modern" engines or 24:1 for older engines or for 
heavy-duty service or high temperatures.

	I vaguely recall that my Stihl 016AV manual (I can't find it) 
recommends 24:1 for break-in and 28:1 thereafter.  I usually use about 26:1.

	I suspect that the "optimum" ratio depends upon quality of oil and 
model and condition of saw, as well as conditions of use.  But anything
within the ranges suggested by either saw manufacturer or oil manufacturer
should be adequate.  I'm sure they're both somewhat conservative -- neither 
wants to buy you a new saw because of failure caused by following their 
instructions.

    RE:.12  YOU WOULDN'T HAPPEN TO BE BIASED NOW WOULD YA!
    
    FRA

    re: -1, Nope, just practical. 
    
    I don't care which saw someone purchases. I point out the varied
    features of each and let the decision remain with them. 
    
    It is interesting though, to evaluate which they will purchase by
    knowing where they live....Think about that one. So far I have been
    fairly accurate.
    
    Again, for the money paid, the Shindi is a good investment. The
    Jonsi is a good investment as well, you just pay more. 
    
    The logic remains sound. Determine what type of cutting you do,
    determine the power and chain and then find a saw which YOU are
    satisfied with (just make sure you have all the relevent info on
    the product) and go cut wood. 
    
    Merle

    
    
    	back in '78 i bought a sthil o30av with a 16" bar
    	ran it for many cords of wood.
    
    	moved out into my own place (apt) and sold it to my brother.
    	(very cheap i might add) but anyway bought a house and needed
    	a saw so i wanted to try jonsered. i ended up with the model
    	525 it cuts like a mutha.
    
    	just alittle better than the sthil but i suppose this is like
    asking whats the best car to buy ford chevy etc.
    
    	just my 2 cents worth.
    
    	mike
    

    We're considering buying a chain saw.  I thought I'd rent one to get the
feel.  I called 6 rental shops (3 near work, 3 near home) and found out that
5 of them rent Stihl only, one had Stihl (bigger ones) and Olympik (smaller).
    I suppose there may be other reasons rental shops start renting one brand
(sales promotions, gimmicks, etc) but to stay with them, I think, is a great
testimonial.  And rental saws probably see nastier use (considering novices
may cut dirt and nails and shin bones) than even the pros' saws.
    And the Stihl 032 we rented worked fine.

    
    	I think one of your considerations should be how often you intend
    to use it.  My mcculloch works just fine for home use.  I cleared
    my entire lot with it, and cut all my wood for the season with it.
    Granted, if I was going to use it 365 days a year it wouldn't be
    my first choice, but realisticly you just don't use it that much
    when cutting wood for heat use.

    My Mcculloch worked fine for a while ... now I can't even get parts
    for it.  I purchased it around 1975 or 6.  It was not the biggest.
    It had a 14" bar and since I was cutting all alone, it was the largest
    saw I could get and still control it with one hand.
    
    I now own a Stihl 028 that I bought in '84.  It cuts circles around
    the mac.  It'll cut circles around a bigger mac too.  I have a feeling
    that in later years I'll see better support for this than I found
    for the macculloch.  I was really disappointed that an american
    made saw only 10 years old was no longer supported.  Macculloch
    was basically saying "Time to throw it away and buy another from
    us."  I threw my macculloch away all right - the whole damn company!
    
    Like cameras, once you get to the good ones, nikon, cannon, pentax
    minolta - the differences come down to personal preferencs mostly.
    
    Once you move up to the johnsered, Stihl, Husqvarna, there's another
    I can't remember Olympia or soemthing like that - they all cut well
    and stand up well.  It probably comes down to what feels right to
    you, if you hit a sale, and what kind of dealers are near you.
    
    I'm glad to hear the rental testimonials.  I also recommend the
    Stihl.  You may not cut all year, but when you do you really notice
    the difference.  The Stihl only cost me only 30% more than a comparable
    macculloch and I feel I got a 100% better saw.

    Chainsaws are DANGEROUS. 
    
    I would be concerned about renting one. If you know the saw is in
    good condition, OK. Dull saws or saws not properly cared for are
    more dangerous than well cared for saws.
    
    When buying a saw, buy quality. Your body parts will thank you.
    Your buying an engine, not a bar. Don't go by just the bar size
    compare engines. Learn how to care for a saw, before you buy one.
    
    After you buy a saw, keep it in excellent condition. Believe me
    its important.
    

    The industrial grade Macs are just as good as the Stihl, and cost
    just as much.  My father now has three Macs (one commercial grade,
    and two industrial grade)  The first one (commercial grade) came
    in about 1977, the others in 1981 and 1985.  
    
    He buys the Macs because there is a farm equipment dealer about
    a half mile from his house that sells them, sells parts, and services
    them.  The guy who owns the shop is very reasonable and he's got
    a good working relationship with him.  Parts for the older models
    have been absolutely NO trouble, but then again, it's probably got
    lots to do with the dealer that he deals with.
    
    One thing that you find that's different from the commercial grade
    macs and the Stihl/industrial Mac is the power of the engine, the
    sound deadening, and the width of the chanins.  The stihl and big
    macs are really noisy, have great power and have the much wider
    chains which don't need to be sharpened as often.
    
    
    Quality is not only in the Stihl products, but the Macs too, you
    just have to get the ones that can take lots of abuse....
    
    
    -bill

    I was not aware of an industrial grade MAC - thanks.
    
    The parts problem - they are not available from macculloch.
    It's not a dealer problem.
    
    Hopefully they support their industrial stuff a little better.
    Like other consumers, I've been burned by the company.  I'd be very
    reluctant to give them any more money.  As for this notes file,
    I believe that is very useful information.  If the numbers of folks
    burned by a company or product outweighs those that are happy ...
    I may very well be burned by Stihl later on.  I don't know that
    yet.

                <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;2 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2630.0                        Power Saws.                           1 reply
FDCV30::CALCAGNI "A.F.F.A."                          28 lines  12-SEP-1988 15:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    
    
    I looked around but couldn't find anything on Power saws, .
    
    I have a old Pioneer model 1111 power saw with a 16" Blade.
    
    Sunday I decided to cut up a pile of logs that I picked up last
    week. Everytime I would start the saw and take the choke off, it
    would die. I took it apart as far as cleaning the Air Filter, and
    checking as best I could the carb, it's a Tilliston.
    
    I also changed the Spark plug putting in a C-J6. I finally took
    the saw apart as best as possible, and ran a thin wire into the
    fuel lines. This seemed to help a little? I could then take the
    choke off, but when I gave it the gas it died. 
    
    I again pulled the air filter, pulled the top off of the carb and
    cleaned around here some. Putting the top back on the carb, then
    wiggling the fuel intake line it ran a little, but then started
    acting up again.  I would've thrown the sucker in the road, but
    I have a hell of a lot of wood to cut up!
    
    So any ideas, or is it time to send it to the Doctors. I would like
    to fix it myself if possible. I don't think it's going to be a easy
    job to pull the fuel line..
    
    Cal.
    

    
    re:-1
    
    "Light bulb pops on!
    
    Good info and most of it does fit your suggestions!
    
    Carb gasket.
    Diaphragm gasket.
    AND
    I have detected a small leak in the feed line from the fuel tank
    to the carb.
    
    Mucho Grazie!
    Cal.
    

    
    
    It might also be worth the effort of checking the fuel filter. This
    is usually on the end of the fuel line that is in the tank. 

    
    Just to let you all know.
    
    I bought a can of Gum Out Carb cleaner, got out a piece of old fuel
    line left over from??
    
    Sat down Saturday afternoon and took the saw apart, as much as
    possible.
    Replace the fuel connection, emptied out the gas, and flushed the
    entire system.
    
    Put it back together, and no extra parts, pulled the starter and
    it WORKED!
    
    It did the trick, and I saved a few bucks too.. Now to attack that
    wood pile.
    
    Cal.
    

Well, here's I've got to clean up after the tornado, and my chain saw
won't start.  It's a HOMELITE S2 that I picked up at BJ's a couple of
months back.  I've tried the stuff in the owners manual -- check air 
filter, change spark plug, check that spark arrester screen isn't clogged,
and I've adjusted the lo and hi idle to one turn from off (which is a
bit richer than they were set), but nothing has any effect.

The second to last time it ran it worked fine.  The last time, it was
hard to start and smoked a fair amount for the few minutes that it ran.
Then it stopped and won't restart.  I've noticed that gas leaks out
the muffler while I am trying to start it (10 or 20 pulls per try).

Any help appreciated.  I looked in the woodworking_and_tools notes file,
but there are no notes there about repairing the things, except for a
cahin that pulls.  

	Thanks,
	Larry

PS -- The thing is under warrantee (assuming that I can find the sales slip), 
so if it looks tough, I'll get it repaired at a shop.  However, I need the
thing to run soon, so if it's something I can do myself, I'd like to try.

    Try a "new" spark plug. Two cycle engines don't like to get there
    plug wet. I have pulled my arm off on stuborn chainsaws/snowmobiles,
    and never realized that it was a wet/shorted plug. For some reason
    when they are under compression, they won't fire. 
    
    
    
    Course you could always "jump start" it like my neighbor did to
    his 1 yr old Homelite. He was so pis*ed at it because it wouldn't
    start, he drove his garden tractor over it 15 times, then he threw
    it over the fence and said if it runs again I could have it. Luckly
    it was on his lawn and nothing was damaged too bad. I installed
    a new plug and we cut down a tree in his yard.
    
    BTW I gave him back his chainsaw and asked him not to run over it
    as many times, so it wouldn't be so hard to straightin out the handle.
     
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim

                       (at least it was over the phone)

1.  Fell tree.
2.  Watch tree fall in unsuspected direction.
3.  Abandon saw - run backwards 92 mph while watching falling tree try its
    best to drop other trees (perfectly innocent trees you wanted to save)
    as well as settle gently down somewhere *very* close to your saw.
4.  Recover wits, breath and saw - all of which have stopped.  Check to make
    sure you have all required parts - yours and the saw's.
5.  "If you fall off a horse, get right back on."  Or, "You've still got
    a dozen more to go."  Re-start saw.  Fail.
6.  Re-re-start saw.  Fail again.
7.  Consider discretion the better part of value and go home, wondering
    about the child you mortgaged to purchase this 3-day old saw.
8.  Call saw shop.  Attempt to sound knowledgeable.
9.  Ask why the saw won't start.
10. Hear a variation of the standard line "Did you try the re-start switch?"



Seriously, tho.  My Stihl has an anti-kickback gizmo protecting the top wrist.
If there is a kickback (or a tree nudges it) this gizmo clicks into place,
stopping the chain instantaneously (I guess).  It also renders the saw
completely unstartable until the gizmo is put back in its right place.

Now I know the above situation doesn't apply in your case because:
   - your Homelite may not have this shutoff thingie
   - the preceding story cannot possibly be true, it's gotta be fiction, right?

    Well, if gas was coming out the muffler and it was smoking alot,
    it was running too rich.  Turn the mixture screws back where they
    were then maybe and 1/8 to 1/4 turn, change the plug (don't just
    try to dry it) and try to start it.  There is no way that saw is
    going to start with a gas fouled plug.
    
    The chain break on my saw will stop the chain but it won't stop
    the saw from running or restarting, it just won't turn the chain.
    
    
    
    Don

    My Homelite tends to be sensitive to stale gas.  If it's been
    a while since you last used it you might try emptying the tank
    and refilling it with new gas.  
    
    Steve

    Also make sure your gas/oil mixure is correct. I mix my homelite
    for a 30:1 mixure of high grade gas a two cycle oil.
    
    I have problems starting mine every once in a while, untill I learned
    the trick to it.
    
    Set choke, give it gas while attempting to start. When you hear
    a sputtered attempt to start. Take it of choke and don't give it
    anymore gas. It should fire and stall. Now your plug is a little
    hot and it should start with very little choke, if any at all in
    this warm weather.
    

    1 - A little "winter starting fluid spray" (ether) will get you over the
    hump. 

    2 - All gasoline engines have a "starting drill", just so much priming,
    just so much pulling, just so much throttle.  With some of them (my old
    BMW bike, for instance), you could pound on it all day without starting
    it, but one kick will start it if you use the right drill.  The correct
    drill may even be mentioned in your documentation. 

Well, I'd already tried a new spark plug, so tonight I took the plug out
and pulled the starter rope to clear gas out of the engine.  After a
couple of pulls it was really spraying out, then a couple more pulls
and it seemed to stop.  Then I waited 1/2 an hour to let the fumes
clear, then put the plug back in (it looked the same as when I first
installed it two days ago) and tried again.  As a matter of fact,
I don't always remember to turn on the start switch, but I did this
time -- and a couple of fruitless pulls always reminds me.

No luck.  From the sound, I can't even tell if the plug is sparking.
The sound is the same as if I pull the cord with the starter switch off.
I'm not sure how to safely check for a spark -- especially considering
that holding equipment against the plug while I'm pulling (or removing
the plug and holding it against the side of the engine while I'm
pulling) would take more hands than I've got.

About the other suggestions.  The chain moves pretty freely on the
bar, so I don't think there's a chain brake problem.  I adjusted the
idle screws back down a bit.  After 10 or 20 pulls, would it be
normal to have some gas come out the other end?  Speaking of the
gas, though, it was gas that had sat in it for about a month, and
which I had mixed about 2 months ago.  Surely the stuff ought to 
last 2 months in a sealed container.  I did put in more from the
gas can afer it died, although I didn't shake it up first.  Does
the oil settle out?  Oh yes, and the gas/oil ratio could be a bit
heavy on the oil, since the manual suggests a 16:1 ratio, "regardless
of the ratio given by the manufacturer of the oil", and the oil that
I got said it should be 32:1 (I went with Homelite's instructions).

Finally, I'm not sure where I'd get ether, and I'm pretty sure that
I'm doing the same incantations that used to make it start.  I feel
a bit like the cartoon of a guy sitting in front of a terminal that
just exploded, thinking "it never did that before".  

Anyway, thanks for all the tips -- even if they don't get me going 
this time, I'm sure they'll be useful in the future.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

Ether is controlled pretty well due to the uses in the drug culture...

If you're trying to use it on the chain saw though ;^) you could use wintertime
car engine starting fluid. This stuff is REAL flammable so be careful. I had
an old lawnmower that had something major wrong inside but a shot of starting 
fluid in the spark plug hole would get it started (and it was ok once running)

Sounds like a service call might be the best bet long term.

    If you want to check for spark, but do not want to hold the plug
    near the saw, try an automotive inductive timing light, clip it
    on and point it towards you. That would give you a better idea if
    the magneto and points are ok. I have a timing light that runs on
    batteries which makes it easier to use-no 12v battery connection.
    Where are you located?
    
    							Chris

    As long as we have gotten into helpful hints:
    
    I use a large alligator clamp with a sparkplug (new) attached via
    a small hose clamp (I drill a hole in the clamp and attach it to
    the alligator clamp at the top.) All I do to test for spark, is 
    attach the clamp to head/ground and attach the plug wite to the 
    plug, and pull the motor thru and watch for a spark. 
    
    The Mad Weldor....Jim
    
    
                                       

It looks like it has been about a year since any comparative analyses have been
done in here.

I just watched my cheap Mac Beaver bite it and want to replace it with
something that will outlast its warranty.  I can get a Stihl-011 down here for
about $260 or about $240 at White's.  They suggested (over the phone) that I
look at the Stihl-024 for about $290.

Any comments on saws somewhere between homeowner and pro?  I don't cut often,
but when I do I cut a lot and like I said, I want this saw to outlast its
warranty.

Thanks in advance,
Pete

To close out the story I started a month ago, it seems that my Homelite
did not have any simple kind of problem.  It's been out for repair for
2 weeks now, and the guy said that he's waiting to get a new ignition
module.  This after less than 3 months, and on about the fourth time
that I used the thing.

One piece of side information, though -- the guy at the repair center
suggested not keeping mixed fuel for any longer than 1 month.  The
Homelite manual simply says not to keep it from fall until the 
following spring, but apparently the fuel breaks down a lot faster
than I expected -- or else a Homelite is particularly sensitive
to fuel that has started to oxidize.

	Thanks,
	Larry

re .40

I bought a Husky mod 61 about 4 years ago and have been completely satisfied
with it. It is a 3.9 horse that came with a 16" bar that I upgraded to a 20".
I bought mainly because I was clearing my own house lot and needed something
that could do a lot of work, and this thing can certainly do that. It goes
through pine like a hot knife through soft butter and hardwoods barely slow
it down, especially if you keep the chain sharp. The price is a little steeper
than what you quoted, about $349 at that time but it was well worth it. Now I
also don't cut often but cut a lot when I do and this saw takes a lickin' and
keeps on tickin'. It will definately outlast its warrenty. It will probably 
outlast me.

re .41

My husky has been on the same can of gas for the last year and a half. Since
I don't cut very often, I mixed the gas and just shake it up before reloading
the saw. So  far it has run fine. I'm getting down to the end so I'll have to
get another can mixed up. I mix 5gal. at a time. As long as I remember, between
uses, to put the RUN/STOP switch in the run position, it only takes 3-4 pulls
and away we go.

 Cowboy

    I also have a husky, a model 50 which is the next one down from
    the 61 (a friend has a 61).  The 50 is a 3.0 cubic inch and it also
    comes with a 16" bar but will take up to a 22" bar.  I have been
    cutting wood 2-3 days a week for the last couple of months and it
    cuts great.  It is not as heavy as a 61 but also does cut quite
    as well.  I think you can get a better deal on a Husky over a Stihl
    but Stihls are excellant saws, as are Johnsereds (sp?).   I bought
    my saw at R.Whites in Nashua and have been very happy.  My friend
    bought his 61 at the a fair, DEERFIELD I think, and he said he got
    a good deal but, he had to set it up.
    
    
    Don 

    And out behind Don, I cut with a Stihl 028 and have been extemely
    happy with it.  I don't cut that often, but when I do ...
    
    When I bought it, I cut 6 big pines down and now do a grapple load
    about once every 2 years.
    
    Only problem I had, was when I first got it, I set it down to cool
    [and take a breather] and refuel.  Started it back up and the damn
    chain was jammed!  I was just about to call R. Whites in Nashua
    to see how soon they could fix it [as I really needed it then] when
    my neighbor came by to see what all the fuss was and proceeded to
    push pull on the chain brake.  Yuh you guessed it!
    [Hey come on ... first saw I've had with that feature.]

I have a Husky 44 that is now 3+ years old. Was used to clear my  house
lot (close to 100 Oaks), then cutting firewood each year.

Still on the original spark plug and bar. 2nd chain. I pulled it out this
weekend for the first time in 2 months and it started on the first pull.
Worth every penny I paid for it.

							Mark

    re:.45   2nd chain?????!!!!!!  wow..... whats it made of??? I must
    definately be using the wrong brands I guess.
    
    I've had a Stihl now for 8 years, same bar and plug (30 or so blades)
    and on the average I probably cut 2-3 cords a year, plus alot of
    pressure treated 4x4's and landscape timbers for tie walls...
    
    I havn't had a pinch of trouble with it and it usually starts on
    the 2nd or 3rd pull.... To me there no comparison. Why mess with
    success?  I looked at the huskys, heard alot of good things about
    them, but my neighbor and father-in-law both have Stihls that are
    well over 10 years old and both love em, so I went with a Stihl
    and hav'nt regretted it yet, don't believe I will.
    
    good luck,   Fra
    
    tell me more about those chains!!!!

Well, let me qualify a bit. Most of the Oaks are what a friend of mine in the
tree cutting business would call scrub (Pin) oaks. Only 12" or so in diameter.

I also cut them down chopped them up in sections about 3' long. The idea
was to get them down and out of the way quickly. I still need to get them
down to stove size and split them. (I've got enough wood down and stacked for
at least 4 years!).

	The chains I purchased with the saw from Mosciarelli's (I know that
isn't the right spelling) in Maynard. They make them to size from large reels
of chain. I think the secret is that I take very good care of them and
the saw. The chains get sharpened and rotated(by me) after every 8 hours of use.
The bar gets flipped each time too. Neither chain has ever hit a nail or
rock. And I have also be fortunate enough to never have one seriously
bound or crushed during a cut. I never put the saw down on the ground.
Even a bit of dirt from the ground will shorten the life of the chain.

	These are all tricks I learned from someone who cuts trees for a
living. I was very impressed with how much respect he has for his equipment
and his safety. 

	I will admit that they have both about had it by now. Enough so that
I want to get new ones next time I am in Maynard. They are old enough now that
I am worried about their strength (the famous weak links)

							Mark

    
    
    	Back when I was in high school my next door neighbor went into
    	buisiness cutting firewood after school and weekends. I worked
    	with him for a couple of years.
    
    	We started with a couple of Homelites, we thought they cut pretty 
    	well. The biggest problem with them was that a new clutch was
    	needed every few months but then we'd cut around 100 cords per saw
    	in that amount of time.
    
    	Once the buisiness took off he replaced the Homelites with
    	Husqvarnas. What a difference ! It cut like a hot knife through
    	butter. One of them was a big sucker and it was incredibly fast the 
    	smaller one was a maybe a little faster than the Homelite it
    	replaced but about half the weight and maybe 10% of the vibration.
    	Believe me after you spend a couple of hours with the saw in your
    	hands it makes a *big* difference.
    
    	The cost of a small Husqvarna starts about the cost of a medium to
    	large Homelite after working with one I'd opt for the Husqvarna.
    
    						Mike
    						----  
    

    There probably is a filter in the gas tank. Check that it is
    not blocked by a lot of dirt, etc. Unless your neighbor played
    with the mixture settings, it is highly unlikely you will find
    any permanent improvement in that area.
    
    Also check the air filter, while you are at it.
    
    	Steve

    
      The symptom you describe is that of the engine running too lean
    in the high speed. The fact that the low speed works makes it sound
    like a filter is clogged. If your neighbor poured oil into the fuel
    tank instead of mixing it in a seperate container the oil itself
    could be clogging the filter or carburetor. 
      Soooo, check the filters (air + fuel). Dump out the gas and add
    properly mixed gas, and see what happens from there. If the clogging
    is due to improperly mixed oil, it may take a little while to clear
    out.
    
    					Kenny

    Sounds familiar to me. Don't fill the gas tank beyond 2/3 full.
    There needs to be some air space left in the tank. Also check plug.
    I would certainly drain the gas and check all gas lines.

    Almost forgot. Take the muffler off and check/clean any carbon build
    up. This is something that should be done periodically anyway on
    two cycles.

Sorry to take so long getting back here...

As far as the fuel filter is concerned, the instruction manual is one of those
semi-generic type that you sort of guess which parts apply to your unit and I
have found at least 2 instances where my unit didn't match anything in the
manual.

The manual mentions grabbing the fuel line in the tank with some sort of a
hook and pulling it and the fuel filter out the filler hole.  The tank is
a translucent white that allows you to see the fuel level, but that's about
it.  I've looked into the filler hole, etc. and can't see the end of the
fuel line to see what the filter looks like.  I guess it is time to go fishing
with a clothes hanger or something.

The tank was low, so I did fill it up with properly mixed fuel/oil.  The
air filter looks O.K.

If worst comes to worst, how can I tell if it has been run with too lean a
mixture and damaged?

Bob

BTW, isn't it a pain keeping different fuel containers for each power tool?
My mower takes one mixture, and the trimmer another, and I'll bet if I bought
an edger, it would take a third.  Why can't these things be standardized?

     I had a similar problem and finally found the problem was a clogged
    screen on the exhaust port. I cleaned the screen and got full power
    restored. I can appreciate the frustration you face working on those
    engines. I ended up tinkering with mine on-and-off for 2 weeks when I
    found the clogged screen somewhat by accident. Good luck
    

    Don't forget to dump the gas in the tank and refill with fresh gas/mix.

Well, I went fishing this weekend and got the fuel line and filter out.  A quick
suck on the end of the filter got me a mouth full of gas fumes, so I don't know
that the filter is a problem.  I might as well replace it since it is out.
I might put a little fuel in tonight and run it briefly w/out the filter to
see if that is the problem.  If not, I guess I should look at the exhaust port.

Bob

re Note 3504.8 by THEPIC::AINSLEY:

> A quick
> suck on the end of the filter got me a mouth full of gas fumes, so I don't know
> that the filter is a problem.  

        Careful -- gasoline is poisonous and carcinogenic (besides
        being explosive when combined with air in the right
        proportions).

        Bob

    Can you say "inspiratory pneumonia"? A wonderful thing to get if you
    get gasoline into your lungs.
    
    Eric

Why not BLOW through it??

    On two cycle engines there are usually two jets in the carburetor.  One
    is the high speed jet, the other is the idle jet. I have seen this
    problem before on 2 cycle dirt bike engines.  If you can locate the
    high speed jet and blow it out with compressed air your problem will
    probably be solved.  On 2 cycle dirt bike engines the symptom is
    exasctly what you described.  Idle is fine, because the idle jet is
    clear, but as soon as you give it any gas it switches over to the high
    speed jet, gets no gas because it's closed, and dies.
    
    Regarding how to tell if it's too lean and running too hot... Take the
    spark plug out and look at the insulator around the electrode.  If it's
    black it's too rich, if it's slightly brown it's about right, and if
    it's almost pure white it's too rich.
    
    I am not familiar with grass trimmer engines like yours so I can't tell
    you how to locate the high speed jet.  If there's a achematic with it
    it may show it.  You may want to try turning out the mixture screw all
    the way and the jet may be behind it but that's only a guess.  Also, if
    you do locate the jet and it looks clear, blow it out anyway because
    you the contaminant is often so small that you can't see it.
    
    good luck.

    Typo on last memo...
    
    If electrode is white, it's running too *lean*
    
    /

    I recently purchased a used saw at a yard sale. It definately
    needs a new chain, however I don't know how to determine the
    length. Is this done by measuring the length of the entire bar,
    or just the part that's exposed? It's a Jonsered 920, btw.
    Also, Superior Saw on Elm St. in Manchester, NH is having a
    sale. Chains about half-price, as well as other accessories.
    They're marking down all Husky models as well.
    
    Thanks,
    John

         John,
    
    
         BRING THE SAW WITH YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Most places recommend
    that you bring the saw.
    
         Chris D.

    Why is that? I can see bring the bar and chain, but why the whole
    saw? Just curious.
    
    John

    That sale on saws and saw supplies at Superior Saws in the city
    of Manchester is this Saturday only, btw.
    
    John

    re: .51
    
    I don't know, but I guess it's 'cause there are soo many different
    sizes.  I got a card in the mail a month ago about a sale on chains
    and it said right on it to bring the saw.
    
    Chris D.

    The chain on my saw takes too small of a bite out of the wood.  I've
    been told that it is dull, but it has been used maybe 10 times in 8
    years and I use that handy-dandy sharpenning file, with the angle
    indicator on it, after every use.  I was wondering if there are
    different chains for different amounts of use or types of wood that are
    beeing cut.  All previous use has been on maple, but now I am cutting
    oak.  The cutting piece of chain has a "nub" preceding the cutting part
    to prevent too much of a bite, but it is turning my "Sears" brand saw
    into something that every Boy Scout should be issued to start a fire.
    There is a sharp edge on each blade though.
    
    Should I get it sharpened by a professional?
    
    What's it cost for a new chain these days?
    
    Charlie T.
    

    re .54
    The chain should still be useable, unless those 10 times it was used,
    was pretty intense use!
    I also sharpen mine after every use (or two), but the pros definately
    do a better job. I'd have a shop do it - should run you 3 or 4 bucks.
    As far as different chains for different type of wood, I don't think
    they exist. However, some folks sharpen at a different angle when
    cutting soft vs. hardwood.
    Fyi, new chains run anywhere from 10 to 30+ plus bucks depending on
    size.
    
    John

    If you don't mind not having the extra protection (anti-kickback)
    that those "nubs" give you, get a real chain without them.  I got
    rid of the safety chain on my husky and use the "LG" chain with
    is a Low Guard chain.  Any chain saw shop should set you up with
    a good chain.  Kepp in mind though, you will have to sharper the
    chain much more often with a low guard chain.  I sharpen mine every
    tank of gas.  I cut about 25 cords of wood this summer and really
    noticed the difference in the chain.
    
    Cutting wood isn't too bad, it's moving it that bites... :-(
    
    
    
    Don

Those little nubs are there to prevent the saw from taking too big of a bite 
and bogging the motor or kicking back.  But as the chain is sharpened, the nubs 
need to be filed also.  If you look at the chain, you'll notice that the top of 
each cutting tooth is sloped down from the cutting edge.  So every time you 
sharpen the teeth, you are also slightly lowering the cutting edge.  After 
enough sharpenings, the cutting edge is lowered to the point where the nubs 
prevent them from cutting at all.  Just take a flat file and file a bit off all 
the nubs.  Use the same number of strokes on each, just like when sharpening 
teeth.

I usually file back the nubs every 3-5 sharpenings.

Paul

    
    I'm not a very experienced chainsaw user, just a home owner with a
    wooded lot!
    
    I have a homelite 16" chain saw and I like it ok, although there have
    been times when I thought it would be nice to have a little more
    power. My questions are also about chain wear. I have not had much
    problem in this area before, until I started cutting the stumps from
    the black locust tress I cut down last summer. I wanted just to cut the 
    stump at ground level so the lawn mower could get over them.
    
    I put a new Oregon chain on and started in. The stumps wern't that big,
    trees maybe 14/15 years old, maybe max 12" across. After about three of
    these, the saw wouldn't cut through anything. The chain had gotten a
    tad loose, so I stopped and readjusted and that helped, but not
    significantly. I ended up putting another chain on and doing the
    remainig six stumps, and by then the second chain seemed dull!
    
    Are Oregon chains really theat crummy? I was mighty close to the
    ground and probably caught some dirt, would that have dulled it
    that much that quick? Locust is tough stuff and stumps are probably the 
    worst. Would that be it? Maybe a combination of factors, including 
    operator error.
    
    These chains are 2 for $24! I think I'll by stock!
    
    Opinion and conjecture welcome,
    
    Dave Kinney

    I wouldn't replace a chain the first time it gets dull unless I had an
    awful lot of unnecessary cash hanging around.

    You sharpen dull blades. If you don't have a chain file, go to a
    hardware store and get one with an angle gauge built in so you can
    strop the chain at the correct angle. Your Homelite instruction manual
    should describe how to sharpen dull chains, or you might be able to
    find instructions with a chain file.

    If you're picking up any dirt while cutting the stumps, I can believe
    the chains will get dull pretty fast.

    And if you're not very experienced, be reasonably frightened of the
    chainsaw and treat it with a lot of respect. I call mine "sir" and take
    it to dinner a lot.

>    And if you're not very experienced, be reasonably frightened of the
>    chainsaw and treat it with a lot of respect. I call mine "sir" and take
>    it to dinner a lot.

    You probably get a lot of respect in restaurants.

    The Carlton chain co. makes a nifty little filing plate for sharpening
    chains, the best setup I've seen.  It controls all the angles and
    depths so you can do a tolerable job with any sort of talent at
    all.  Lacking the talent or the confidence, take the chain someplace
    to get it sharpened (probably $4-$5).  Trouble is (aside from the
    $5 charge), professional sharpening grinds off significantly more
    of the chain than is lost by filing, so chain life is reduced. 
    But you do get basically a sharp-as-new chain out of it.
    
    If you're going to be doing this a lot, you do need to learn to
    file your own chains.  I haven't done much cutting for a while,
    but back in my heat-with-wood phase I think I'd file the chain
    to touch up the teeth about every half hour or so.
    
    Black locust does a number on chainsaws...I had the same sort of
    experience.  If you're cutting down near the ground, that just makes
    it worse because of the grit.  Figure the chain is turning at a
    few thousand rpm, it doesn't take very long for one bit of grit
    to whack all the teeth.
    
    I've never used Oregon chain, but as far as I know it's tolerably
    good.

    

    Stump cutting is the hardest of any cut on a chain for a number of
    reasons. The chain tends to hit dirt. (sand is abrasive and will dull
    the chain) the chip chute will not clear as quickly as normal because
    of the angle of the saw so you are now cutting the wood all the time.
    Also because of the strange angle that you may be holding the saw you
    are probably putting a lot of side load on the chain. All of these
    things tend to cause the chain to heat up, even with the bar oil
    flowing freely, and a hot chain gets dull much quicker than a cool one.
    You are not getting ripped off on your chains. get them sharpened or
    get a chain file and do it yourself and the next time you cut normally
    you will see that the chain will last almost as long as what the first
    one did.  

    My dad is a retired lumber jack,,,, He is extemely!!!! carefull not
    to allow the blade to hit dirt. If it did,,,,, out comes the file.
    It only take one slite contact with dirt to necesitate sharpening.
    
    Now myself,, I am not so carefull, in fact, I cut down 23 trees in
    my yard, dug down 12 inches around the tree and cut them off below
    the earth with the saw. What I did do to minimize chain wear was to
    take a hatchet and cut the bark away all the way around the stump. 
    This minimized the amount of dirt encountered but I still had to
    sharpen it after every tree.  
    
    Don't let it get too dull.  I sharpen mine by hand , being carefull
    to take the same number of strokes on each tooth.  Sharpen every 
    other tooth from one side of the saw (mark where you start) then do
    the same from the other side.  If you are even with your stroke,,
    the blade will sharpin nicely and will continue to cut straight.  If
    you sharpen one side too much the saw will tend to wander in that
    direction.   A nice sharp saw will produce a good sized wood chip,
    as it dulls, they get more like dust, untill eventually it doesn't
    cut.  Bar chain oil is cheap,,,, use a lot of it.  After you have 
    sharpened your chain quite a few times, or if after hand sharpening
    it still doesnt cut well, bring it to a pro and have the cutting 
    angle of the tooth checked.  There are devices that help you with
    filing at the correct angle but I've had good luck sharpening by 
    hand (of course I saw my dad do it enough times, I guess some of it
    rubbed off!!)
    
    Good luck and be carefull!! carefull!!!! carefull!!!! Short cuts can
    cause accidents and could change your life!!!  Wear proper clothing
    too!!
    
    signed-someone-who-plans-every-move-before-starting-the-dam-thing!!
    
    Bruce May                                                         
      
    

    I use nothing but Oregon Chains on my Husqvarna saw and I think
    they are very nice.  I always seem to forget to file the chain but,
    they stay pretty sharp.  I didn't like the way the saw cut that
    much until I put on a "low guard" chain A.K.A a chisel tooth chain
    and now it cuts great but you do have to pay attention, chisel tooth
    chain are not safety chains by any means!  My father needed to cut
    out some stumps so I told him he could my saw if he planned on buying
    a new bar and chain when he was done. ;-)  After about 4-5 minutes
    of cutting stumps, the chain was junk, it wasn't even worth sharpening.
    The bar had a little slopp in it but it was still usable and I keep
    it as a spare.  I file the chain when it starts to cut slower and
    have it professionally sharpened after I get a nick it.  So far,
    I've cut about 8 cords with this last chain and it still looks new.
    I've still got another 3 or so cords of wood to cut before they
    can start digging the cellar hole and the saw/and chain are holding
    up fine!
    
    
       When you cut wood, if you get the chain anywhere near dirt or
    really dry hard wood, the chain will get dull in nothing flat!
    
    
    
    Don

    I had a couple of chains sharpend last year. It cost $6 (half the cost
    of a new chain), took a week and the results were disapointing. The chain 
    did not seem even close to as sharp as a new chain.
    
    I read in an earlier note that the little kick back humps (for lack of
    the real term) need to be filed also, so the actual cutting edged is
    exposed for a good attack angle. This may have been the problem. Eh?
    
    I replaced the chain because: A. I had one, B. It takes less than 5
    minutes, and C. I need to find a file system like the ones mentioned.
    Probably like most others, I have limited time to work around the
    house, what with job and family demands, so keeping spare/new/almost 
    new chains and other high wear parts at the ready make for more
    efficient use of time. BTW, once I develop the skill to some resonable
    level, how long would it take me to sharpen the chain? 
    
    Dave Kinney
    

    re -1
     
    How long to sharpen chain???
    
    Takes me between 5 to 10 minutes tops!!  But the key is not to let it
    get too dull.  I normaly can sharpen the chain with about 4 to six
    strokes per tooth. 
    
    
    Bruce
    

    How long?  Not being very fast, it took me maybe 10-15 minutes...it
    depends on how much you want/need to do.  If it's just touchup,
    it's pretty fast.  If you let it go and have to file a lot, then 
    maybe half an hour to really work it back into condition.  As
    .66 says, the key is not to let it get too dull before you touch
    it up.

    Re .65
      
  >>>  I read in an earlier note that the little kick back humps (for lack of
  >>>  the real term) need to be filed also, so the actual cutting edged is
  >>>  exposed for a good attack angle. This may have been the problem. Eh?
    
           
       A chisel tooth chain doesn't have those "bumps", that is why
    they cut so fast.  However, those "bumps" cause the teeth not to
    sink into the long at the tip so you don't have the saw kick back.
    A chisel tooth chain will kick back on you if you don't pay attention.
    
    
    
    
    
    Don
    

    re: .68
    If I'm interpreting what the "bumps" are correctly, any chisel tooth
    chain I've seen does indeed have them.  They control the depth of
    cut for the teeth, and do need to be filed.  They are directly in
    front of the cutting edge of each tooth, by 1/4" or so (depending
    on the size of the chain).  Drawing of a chainsaw tooth:
    
    			+__
    	+----+    	\  ~~--__
        / X  |   	 \       \		File down X so it's
       /     |           |       |		slightly below cutting
      +      +-----------+       |		edge of tooth
      |                          |
      |				 |
      +--------------------------+       

    Those "bumps" you refer to are called rackers. They control the
    depth of cut. I cut then .020 to .030 lower than the cutting tooth.
    
    
    Jim

    Steve,
        
         My original chain looked like this.
    
    
    			+__
    	+----+    	\  ~~--__
        / X  |   	 \       \		File down X so it's
       /     |           |       |		slightly below cutting
      +      +-----------+       |		edge of tooth
      |                          |
      |				 |
      +--------------------------+       

    
    My new chain looks like this.
    
        			+__
    	        	\  ~~--__
                	 \       \		
       ______            |       |	   The chain is pn # 33lg66	
      /------\-----------+       |		          (Oregon)
      |                          |
      |				 |          Which denotes a 66 tooth
      +--------------------------+          low guard chain. 
    
    
    
    
    Don
    

I moved the notes about how to fell trees to their own note.

Paul

    I need to cut down 3 good sized trees (12"-14" dia) and 4 smaller ones
    (6" dia) in my backyard, then cut it all up for firewood, so I'm
    considering buying a chainsaw.  Since, after this, I probably won't
    have any use for it ever, I want to keep the cost as low as possible.
    
    Anyone have any experience with Sears "Craftsman" chainsaws?  There's a
    sale this week on a either 14" or 16" (I forget which), 2.3 c.i., for
    $179.  Would this be sufficient for my needs?
    
    Opinions on electric chainsaws?  Sears is also having a sale on a
    particular model.  The reason I ask about electric is that, after a
    storm last year, a rather large limb snapped and was just hanging, and
    my neighbor offered me this dinky little electric chainsaw which did a
    surprisingly decent job.......
    
    Also, are there any places that sell used chainsaws in north-east MA or
    So. NH?
    
    Thanks.
    
    John

    re .-1
>    I need to cut down 3 good sized trees (12"-14" dia) and 4 smaller ones
>    (6" dia) in my backyard, then cut it all up for firewood, so I'm
>    considering buying a chainsaw.  Since, after this, I probably won't
>    have any use for it ever, I want to keep the cost as low as possible.
    
    Sounds like the perfect example of why companies like Taylor Rental
    do so well. Should cost you about 10-20 bucks for the day.
    
    Don't forget head/ear/eye protection and chaps for your legs (you
    should be able to rent those as well). Wear solid boots and
    gloves. Additional common sense rules apply.
    
    John

    Actually, I didn't consider renting because I didn't think it would be
    cheap, as you say, $10-20 for 1 day.  Also, I didn't want to feel
    rushed- do the whole job over the course of a couple weekends.  I will,
    however, at least give Taylor Rental a call now......
    
    What should I know about renting, like what will I need to get in
    addition to the chainsaw (and the optional safety equipment)?
    
    John

    
    
    	The Taylor Rental near my house is more expensive. $35.00 for the
    	day. They supply the gas, oil and a monster saw ( big Stihl ).
    
    	I don't think they supply eye or ear protection.
    
    	The saw is big enough so you should be able to cut down and up
    	a few big trees in a couple of hours or so.
    
    							Mike
    							---- 

    	I went the dinky Craftsman electric chainsaw route to clear the
    land for my addition. Trees up to 12" or so... I prefer the electric
    to the noisy gas ones. It worked fine. I did have to get a spare chain
    so I could swap chains as soon as one got dull (happens fast when you
    let the chain touch earth or a stone!).  A good 12 gage 100' extension
    cord had to be part of the purchase ($35 from Harbor Freight - it has
    come in VERY handy since in the addition).
    	Summary: I wish more people would use electic. Glad I did. - Chris

    You should be able to buy a 14 inch electric chain saw for about
    $50 on sale. As long as you will not use it more than about 100
    feet from an electrical outlet they have many advantages over a
    gas model. They work just about as well as a gas saw, are much
    lighter, you don't have any starting problems, no gas/oil to mix, etc.
    
    I've used an inexpensive WEN electric for years and find it adaquate
    for occassional use.
    
    Ray

I don't have any complaints with the electric Craftsman saw so far, though I
haven't used it for anything larger than 8" diameter or so.  I didn't even have
any problems the time I used it at the end of 250' of extension cord (100' #12,
the rest #14) as long as I didn't try to load it down.

BTW, Spags has (had?) 100' #12 gauge cord for $26.50 or so.

-Mike

    
>    What should I know about renting, like what will I need to get in
>    addition to the chainsaw (and the optional safety equipment)?
    The things I mentioned should be sufficient as far as safety goes.
    There is a helmet that most saw shops carry that combines head
    and ear protection. A nice item to have if the saw happens to kick
    back and your head is in it's path. I would think rental shops
    would offer that item. They might not have chaps tho. Standard
    goggles or safety glasses work fine for eye protection. Those are
    cheap (and handy) enuf to buy. If you cutting only a few trees,
    you'll be surprised as how fast it goes (as long as obstacles
    (houses, etc) are not a problem). One day will probably be more
    than enough. Thinking back, $10-$20 may be a little less than
    going rates. It's been quite a while since I rented one.
    I never understood how they came up with rental amounts. Certainly
    not based on cost of the item. You can rent a bobcat for 125 - 150.
    They cost around 15K, right? What's a good saw cost? $400 will get you
    an excellent saw, $700 for a pro model. Is the rental cost equivalent?
    (sorry for the tangent...)
    
    John
    

"optional safety equipment"?

Cutting down (and cutting up) four 40-60-foot-tall trees is the most dangerous
thing you're going to be doing this year.  If I were you, I'd find someone
who owns a chainsaw and who's done it before and appoint myself his or her 
helper.

re: Note 1612.80 

>    I never understood how they came up with rental amounts. Certainly
>    not based on cost of the item. You can rent a bobcat for 125 - 150.
>    They cost around 15K, right? What's a good saw cost? $400 will get you
>    an excellent saw, $700 for a pro model. Is the rental cost equivalent?
      
      No, the rental cost is not "equivalent".

      Certainly a return on capital is part of the rental price, but not
      all.   There  are  also  transaction  costs,   maintenance   cost,
      replacement costs, etc. These costs are a much higer percentage of
      capital on a $3-700 chain saw than on a $15K bobcat.

    Another reason for constant resharpening or filing of saw blades is
    that the duller you let them get between filings, the more meat you
    have to remove from the teeth to get a new edge, therefore diminishing
    the life of the blade.  It is feasible to start with a new blade and
    run a saw till it's dull enough to not be able to have it resharpened.
    
    I use anywhere between 4-8 blades during a typical afternoon cutting, 
    much more efficient to be cutting during the daylight hours than 
    spending precious time resharpening blades.  When i'm finished, i'll 
    file them all down to be ready for the next outing.  Any that beyond
    filing, get professionally resharpened.
    
    The sharper the better... and the duller the more dangerous.
    
    Fra  
    

    re .-1
    You mean chains, not blades, right?

    correct!
    
    Fra

    
    
    	I would like to find a 'chain' sharpener in the Hudson,Ma. area.
    
    	I have been filing my chain(s) for a year now, and it's time for a
    good sharpening, but the guy that I used to go to ...died over the
    summer.
    
    
    	Does anyone know of a good place(Sharp/true/depth gauge checked)
    	that is reasonable in the Cent. Mass Area??
    		 (I've had $20/chain mentioned!!! and I use 4 chains!)
    
    
    		Thanks,
    
    			Chuck
    

        HELP!

	I'm using  a  borrowed  10 year old (but not-much-used) Stihl 14" chain
	saw and am having a distressing problem with the chain.  If it matters,
	the saw has no chain stop.

	I can't  adjust  the  chain  so  the saw is happy.  If I make the chain
	tight,  it won't turn.  If I make it medium (where I think it should be
	set),  it  binds somewhere  seemingly near  the  clutch sprocket.  [The
	sprocket spins freely without the bar and chain made tight].  If I make
	it  loose  (so  it  hangs  1/4"  below the bar), the chain spins around
	freely  albeit  loosely.   In  a bind to finish the job this weekend, I
	used the saw at that tension setting (extra loose).

        As I'm  cutting  with  the  chain  visibly  LOOSE, gradually, the chain
        TIGHTENS up on me so tight (over twenty minutes) that I can't even make
        it turn by hand!

	What makes  it  go from TOO LOOSE to TOO TIGHT! The bar is clamped down
	very  tight  (I  thought  that might have been the problem).  The chain
	goes  loose to tight (and back to loose) on me when I move the chain by
	hand  too,  unless  it's  a one in forty chance that I hit some magical
	adjustment where it doesn't bind by hand (but does later when I saw).

	Any ideas?  It's  been driving me crazy! Saw for twenty minutes, adjust
	the saw for forty, cut for 20, adjust for 40.  Used the saw three times
	before I quit in frustration.  What a pain!

        -Erik


	PS- All  the  adjustable  screw lets you do is to push the bar out into
	the  chain  (providing the tension).  I adjust the screw for the proper
	tension, then tighten down the nut clamping the bar onto motor housing.
	The  tightened  bar  shouldn't be out of line with the alignment of the
	sprocket,  but  that's  all I can figure the problem might be.  Doesn't
	look so visually.

               xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
           xxx     BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBx
         x00       BBBBBBBBBB                                                   BBx
       x00  00          T   BBBB                                                  BBx
         x00       BBBBBBBBB  P                                                 BBx
           xxx     BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBx
               xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

                              ^ P = adjustable screw w/ pin
          ^ sprocket  ^ T = solid pin the slot in the bar slides onto
          B = bar
          x = chain

    RE: .87
    
    I don't know the answer to your problem ( I use a husky..), but,
    ****DONOT USE THE SAW ANYMORE UNTIL IT IS FIXED!!!!!****
    
    Bring it to a Stihl service center...now!
    
    Marc H.

>    ****DONOT USE THE SAW ANYMORE UNTIL IT IS FIXED!!!!!****
>    
>    Bring it to a Stihl service center...now!
    
    Follow this advice.  Either that or get your wife ready with
    the Camcorder, you might be able to make some money from the
    911/EyeWitness Video shows when you severe one of your arteries.

    Running a saw with the chain visibly loose like that is insane.

    George

The only idea I can suggest is that the adjustment screw is turning and 
tightening the chain.  Can you lock it in place.  (Using a nut or Loktite)

This doesn't sound reasonable if you lock the bar in place.  Like I said,
it's all I can think of.

Stan

   Any chance you don't have any chain oil or the chain oiler is broken/clogged?

   Does the chain actually tighten to the bar or is the chain/engine hard to 
move?

	   I'd check on the oil, too.  It doesn't make sense that the chain
	would shrink as you use it.  Heat would expand it and tension would
	stretch it.  I would guess that the links are binding due to too
	little or `no' bar and chain lube.  If this is the case, the saw
	wont be long for this world.
	    Pull the bar and chain off and check on the flexibility of the
	links. The chain may need to be replaced; they're not too expensive.
	While it's apart, use a screwdriver and/or brush to clean out all
	the woodchips, etc. that have built up around the drive sprocket,
	oiler and the like.  See if you can run a straight edge down the
	groove in the bar and make sure the bar sprocket looks good.
	    When you put the saw back together, install the bar upside down.
	This shouldn't effect your tension problem, but it helps to wear 
	the bar more evenly for longer life.
	    And remember, "A chain saw doesn't know the difference between
	a leg and a log!"

					Tim

   First off, George (.89), you're being a little quick and harsh there, 
   aren't you?
    
>    ****DONOT USE THE SAW ANYMORE UNTIL IT IS FIXED!!!!!****
>    
>    Bring it to a Stihl service center...now!
>    
>    Follow this advice.  Either that or get your wife ready with
>    the Camcorder, you might be able to make some money from the
>    911/EyeWitness Video shows when you severe one of your arteries.
>
>    Running a saw with the chain visibly loose like that is insane.
>
>      -< Mandatory safety features are there to protect people like you >-

   "Protect people like me"? Like me what?

   This is  the  family chainsaw that my mother brought back with her from home
   (Germany).  The saw is a fifteen (not ten as I found out) year old original.
   It's not a low-end plastic gadget picked up at an American department store,
   loaded  with plastic safety features.  It's a professional's "climbing saw",
   compact but _very_ mean.  No chain stop, no chain stop bar shield, no second
   safety  lock-out  switch,  no trunk-holding spikes on the housing, the chain
   spins  around until friction stops it, it doesn't even have a cover over the
   red  hot muffler, and the biggest difference, the handgrips are tight and up
   close  together  so  your  hands  are almost touching each other (unlike the
   current  saws  where  one  grip  is  up  front and the other is in back, far
   apart).   Maximum  maneuverability  while up in trees and below, but minimum
   torque in your grip and control of the saw.  This is one mean saw.

   I have  MORE  than a healthy respect for this saw, it borders on fear.  I do
   not approach the saw lightly, or as a toy.  Nor am I someone who is a novice
   at  using this saw, sharpening the chain, taking it apart, etc.  I've felled
   more  large trees than I can count.  This weekend I was cutting two 60+ foot
   oaks  on  the  hill up front of my house, towering over the power line below
   and would have hit the house too if they fell in the other direction.  I was
   able  to  fell  them  precisely  where they had to go.  I've been doing this
   since I was a teenager.  People like me _what_?

   The chain  is normally supposed to have 1/8" to 3/16" slack when you lift it
   up  from  the  middle  of  the bar.  I was running it with 1/4" slack, which
   'looks' (ie, visibly) loose (ie, looser than 3/16" slack).  If the chain was
   indeed  as  loose  as  you  must have pictured (hanging down limply from the
   bar),  the  noticeable  show-stopping  side  effect would first be the chain
   slipping  and  skipping  teeth on the sprocket, making a pounding racket and
   feeling  like  all  hell.  I don't think even the most novice would continue
   using  a  saw  that was skipping and pounding like that.  From my experience
   and  more  from  what  I'm  told, it takes a huge amount of slack to get the
   chain  to  be  able  to  jump off of the end of the bar where the tension is
   greatest.   The  concern  is  more of a weak link breaking from the pounding
   it's getting as it's skipping teeth and banging around at the sprocket.

   As for  bringing  it  to  a Stihl service center, my mother did exactly that
   before  loaning  it  to me.  She paid $40 to tune it up for spring use.  She
   paid  $40  for  nothing  apparently.  The chain was not sharpened completely
   (only  one side was done), the engine could not even idle (it shut off after
   3 seconds) or hit it's peak power, the chain was much too tight, and the saw
   had  _no_  bar  oil  in the tank.  I think she got ripped off (being a woman
   with  an  accent they felt they could take advantage of? Stupid move by them
   if  something happened and she sued for liability).  I needed to get the job
   done  this weekend and didn't have the time to drive it all the way back, so
   I  worked  on  it myself.  I'd like to know what the guy did for $40 though,
   nothing  from  what  I  can tell.  Not even clean it.  This was someplace in
   Plainville, MA fwiw...

   As for  the  rest  with  pointers  for where to look, thanks for the help! I
   think I found the problem last night.  There was a little play between where
   adjustment  screw pin fit into the adjustment hole on the bar.  I got rid of
   a little bit of saw dust in there and made sure the adjustment screw pin was
   firmly  and cleanly against the metal outer edge of the hole.  That explains
   why  the  chain  was  loosening and tightening on me.  The one main bar bolt
   isn't  enough  to  prevent the bar from moving up or down entirely by itself
   (with the force put on it while sawing), the wood dust in the adjustment bar
   hole gave it room for play.

   There was also wood dust in the chain oiler area so the oil couldn't come up
   freely.   I'm  sure  that added to the problem as well.  Is there any way to
   lessen  the  amount  of  sawdust  that gets in there? Do people clean it out
   after every gas tank refill?

   The bar,  the bar groove, and chain links all looked fine.  The chain became
   a  little  discolored  from all the tree sap though.  It might be time for a
   new  chain  soon, but it still gets pretty sharp when you sharpen it by hand
   and is still very flexible.

   Thanks for the pointers!  We'll see if the fix and saw works tonight...

   -Erik

    RE: .93
    
    Your inital note didn't contain all the info you just stated. Your
    first impression was of a rank amateur, about to cut off a leg!
    
    Folks were trying to help....
    
    Marc H.

    > first impression was of a rank amateur, about to cut off a leg!

    	Doesn't mean an expert won't either. :-)

    	I wasn't trying to give an impression either way, guess it came out
    	sounding novice. Glad people were concerned...

    	Actually, I am glad I am not that frequent/expert a chainsaw user.
    	I've had two family members (grandfather and father) who have hurt
    	themselves severely on power tools, tools they used everyday in
    	their hobbies and work. Both times it was because of becoming
    	too 'comfortable' around their tools. I used to look at my still 
    	having fear of the chainsaw as a weakness to overcome. Now, I'm
    	glad I have it and hope I don't lose it, having a natural amount 
    	of fear for having a screaming monster in my hands that can get 
    	away and bite me the second I don't treat it as such.

    	-Erik

>   First off, George (.89), you're being a little quick and harsh there, 
>   aren't you?
 
    Your first note sounded like someone who borrowed a chainsaw for the
    first time.  It sounded like you didn't know how to adjust one, and
    most likely not how use one.  

    Stopping by a chainsaw place and asking them to tighten the bar up
    for you would most likely have been low cost and the safest thing
    given the above assumption.

    I just spent the whole day saturday felling trees and cutting wood
    myself.  I wouldn't have reacted so strongly if I just hadn't spent
    so much time with a saw.  I could envision you doing all kinds of damage
    to yourself.

    George

>	Is there any way to
>   lessen  the  amount  of  sawdust  that gets in there? Do people clean it 
>   out after every gas tank refill?

	    You may have to file down the rakes.  They limit how deeply
	the teeth sink into the wood.  The rakes should be filed every 3
	or 4 sharpenings.  If they're too high, you'll get more sawdust
	than wood chips.  You'll also get tired quicker trying to push 
	the bar into the wood.

					Tim

    	Hmmm... thanks for the reminder! I'll have to check them, it's been
    	a while and at least two chain sharpenings since they've been filed 
    	too.

	-Erik

               <<< VMSZOO::DISK$WORK2:[NOTES$LIBRARY]RC.NOTE;2 >>>
                  -< Welcome To The Radio Control Conference >-
================================================================================
Note 1601.0                Paramount/Poulan/Weedeater                  2 replies
BRYAN::ARCHER                                   6 lines  16-MAY-1994 16:20:18.76
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've got a chance to get a gas motor for a boat I'm considering.  It's call a
Paramount.  Anybody heard of one?  It say you can use Poulan or Weedeater parts
in the thing.  Its a 21 and I'm considering it for a 55" Scarab that a friend 
has but doesn't want (read: will sell cheap!).

b-
================================================================================
Note 1601.1                Paramount/Poulan/Weedeater                     1 of 2
STRATA::BERNIER                                 8 lines  17-MAY-1994 09:45:30.24
                                -< Question... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    
    	Stupid question:  Does 21 refer to .21 CI as in airplane engines?
    
    	If so, a 55" Scarab?
    
    	/ab
    
================================================================================
Note 1601.2                Paramount/Poulan/Weedeater                     2 of 2
BRYAN::ARCHER                                   2 lines  17-MAY-1994 09:54:54.27
                                 -< more info >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 21 refers to cc (cubic centimeters) and the boat is a 55" Scarab made by
Dumas.

    
    
    I checked for a previous note on this subject using keyword "Chainsaw"
    with no luck, if one exists, Mod, please feel free to move this......
    
    I need to buy a chainsaw to clear some land.  I am going to leave the
    larger trees to someone who want to cut them for firewood.  The largest
    trees I will be cutting will be ~6 inches in diameter.
    
    I want to make sure I get one that will suit my needs. I am at a loss 
    as to what type to buy.  What size?  Do you mix the oil in some and 
    others are automatic? 
    
    Do some need more maintenance than others?  How long to the blades
    last?
    
    Suggestions are appreciated.
    
    Thanks!
    
    /Andy
    

    I've owned a Poulan 16" for 15 years - good quality - dependable - and
    I believe that they OEM them for Sears (Craftsman) brand. 
    
    d.

    I have a Stihl 011avt and love it.  
    
    Primarily I bought it because it appeared to be one of the safer
    chainsaws I could afford.  In addition to the anti-kickback bar and
    chain, it also has a chain brake built into the upper hand guard.
    Basically, you can activate it by pivoting the hand guard forward, 
    which is real easy to do (while holding the upper handle, just pivot 
    your left(for us rightie's) wrist forward - or the saw back.)  Note
    that if the saw kicks back, the chainsaw will pivot back activating
    the chain brake before it gets a chance to slice you in half.  (A
    kickback is where the tip of the chainsaw catches on something, and the
    chain/engine momentum kicks/pivots the saw violently backward towards
    you.)
    
    I also always activate the chain brake while starting the engine, and
    whenever else the engine is running while I'm not cutting wood.
    You may not understand what I'm talking about, but if you find a local
    Stihl dealer I'd ask about it (other brands may have this feature now
    too - but it wasn't common when I bought mine 8 years ago).
    
    I'd also recommend a rubber mounted handle, which helps damp the 
    vibration to the user, and a quiet engine (also features of this saw).
    
    One final note: A chainsaw may be the absolute most dangerous tool
    you'll ever use.  Whatever you buy, read the manual and pay attention
    to it!  Consumer reports had an article on them several years ago which
    was quite informative.
    
    ...Ken

I have a Jonserrads (sp?) which I've owned for just eleven years now and
I swear by it. It has all of the features Ken described in .-1. I had
owned/used several Craftsman saws previous to this with no happy memories.
(And, for the most part, I'm a _big_ fan of Craftsman's line.) Perhaps
the bottom line is "Buy a European brand." I don't hear lots of good
stuff about McCullough (sp?) or John Deere.

-Jack

    I'd also recommend Jonsereds or Stihl.  I guess Husquevarna is supposed 
    to be good.  There are undoubtedly other good ones too, but basically
    I think you get what you pay for.  Johnsereds, Stihl, etc. won't be
    cheap, but they will be reliable.  They also have rubber-mount motors
    so they are much more pleasant to use than cheaper saws.  If you get
    a good saw, it will have automatic chain oiling.  I think these days
    almost all saws probably have it.  But, you'll have to mix the gas+oil
    for the two-cycle fuel mix.  That's no big deal.
    
    I'm not sure the place is still in business, but if you're able to get
    to the Nashua, NH, area, go to Roland White's Small Engine Repair (or
    some such name) on Deerfoot Drive, off Route 101A (I think that's
    right).  When I got my Jonsereds there, about 15 years ago, they had
    logs outside and test saws you could try out, so you could get the
    feel of different saws.
    
    As far as how long chains last; a lot depends on how well you maintain
    it, and the bar.  If you keep the bar edges filed square as they begin
    to wear, if you sharpen the chain properly, little and often, if you
    don't have the bad luck to hit a utility pole tiebolt embedded in a
    tree trunk, if you keep an eye on the automatic oiling mechanism and
    make sure it's working, they'll last quite a while.  A chain ought to
    last several years, at least, at the rate you're likely to be able to
    use is.
    
    For size: a 16" bar is PLENTY.  You could probably get by with less.
    Don't be lured by too big a saw.  They get heavy after using them for
    a while.  12 to 13 pounds is heavy enough. 

    
    I have 10 year old second hand Jonsered... starts on the 1st or 2nd
    pull everytime, has VERY little vibration and goes through hardened
    oak with little effort. Jonsered and Husqvarna are made by the same
    folks... higher on the price curve than many, but worth the money.
    
    Also see PORI::STOVES for a long list of opinions.
    
    								- Mac

    
    I have had a Husqvarna for four years.  It works great and is
    comfortable to use.  I do not hesitate to recommend it.
    
    John

    
    Roland White's is still in business.  They have a large selection and
    knowledgeable staff.   I'd suggest going there and taking some for a
    test drive in their back lot (I'd sure hate to live nextdoor to them).
    
    I bought a Stihl there about 6 years ago and it's still going strong.
     The main reason I picked a Stihl was that it was the lightest of
     all the saws with the same size and power.
    
                                                                joe m
    
    

    How many trees do you need to cut? A big chainsaw can really do some
    clearing. You may wish to think about renting one for a day or two. 
    I have done that, taking it back at lunch and saying it was dull. Got
    a freshly sharpened one.
    
    Or check with neighbors. When hurricane Gloria came through a couple of
    years ago, I had a tree on my powerline. Before I could mix a batch
    of fuel for it, 3 neighbors were out there asking if they could help me
    chop it down.  Tell the neighbor you will buy them a new chain or
    bar/chain if they let you use it. Cheaper than a total saw.
    
    I own a 16" Echo. It has the name Black and Decker on it, but Echo
    makes them for about a dozen companies from what a service guy told
    me. On some, the 12-14-16 inch models are all the same, just the bar
    and chain gets larger.
    
    Unless you are into a lot of cutting activities, why spend a lot of
    money? There are a lot better power tools to accure first ;>)
    
      john

    
    I've had my 520SP for 10 years now and she's still "right there"
    ready to go to work whenever I ask her to....  
    
    Fred

    I bought a 50cc Husquavarna to clear trees off a lot when building my house 5
    years ago.  The saw has run like a champ, and I'm not particularly easy
    on my tools. 
    
    I would rec. getting a Husky.
    
    Scott

    
    	I have a lot of "Light" trees to clear.  As I mentioned, I will
    	leave the larger (Four of them) trees for somone who has more
    	experience.
    
    	I would prefer owning my own opposed to renting one.  What are
    	your reccomedations regarding engine size?
    
    	Thanks for the wealth of information contributed!
    
    	/Andy
    
    

    
    Judge your purchase by the largest diameter tree you figure
    you will want to cut.  Add 2" to the bar.  If by some chance
    down the road you encounter a much larger one, hey - there's
    no rule that says you can only cut from one side...  Just be
    EXTRA careful.   
    
    Not being a professional logger, accept the size of the engine
    that comes. It'll be plenty powerful enough.
    
    My cousin's into the lumberjack competition and has one of those
    with the megaphone exhaust, runs nitromethane and goes thru an
    (I think he said) 18" diameter pine log in about 3 seconds.
    The chain has a special grind to it also...
    
    With my 14" Jonsered, I've brought down oaks in the 2' diameter
    range, dead ones that is, for firewood.  No problem!  I believe
    it has a 3.0 CC engine.  Has all the power it needs.....
    
    Hope that helps...
    
    Fred

I've had a Stihl 028WB for 14 years. I've cleared my house lot,
clear fields for planting and have been cutting tree length logs
for fire wood. Runs fine; I'd buy another. In fact, I bought a Stihl
brush cutter for trimming around 2,000 + trees and it works great too.

The sign in the shop said:

	"Buy Stihl and you'll only cry once"

It took me a minute to get it, but its the truth.
They cost more than some other brands, but the reliability is the best.

Friends and my father have been on other brands. Theirs is in the shop
for one reason or another. 14 years and all I do is feed it, maintain
the chain and a new spark plug in the fall. 

Dan

    
    
    i like my 266XP Huski.  had it a few years.  cuts like the wood
    was a stick of butter...   But from the sound of thing your
    just going to play.  Some thing like a small Homelite might
    fit your bill.   Now if youd like me to bring my 266
    over and remove all thoes unwanted trees... I'll be glad to show
    you how good it cuts!  :):)  ZZZZZzzzz........crash!
    
    JD

When I was looking for my saw 8 years ago I did some research, and it came down
to 3 brands:  Stihl, Husquevarna, & Jonsered.  So far it appears to be the 
same now.  Buy any of those brands and you'll do fine.  Your choice can be
based on the dealer, and which saw feels most comfortable in your hands and
on your wallet.  (I bought my Stihl at O'Connor Hardware in Billerica MA 
(Tower Farm Road?), and would highly recommend them).

I think a 14-16" bar is a good size.  Unless you'll be frequently cutting 
very large trees, you won't need anything longer (and it would be heavier and 
harder to handle for trim work).  And, there is little reason to go with a
smaller bar since it won't save you much money or weight (and your neighbors
will laugh  :-)  :-)  ).

As far as engine size goes - if you buy a decent brand saw, the engine will be
big enough.  Besides, felling trees and cutting them into firewood size logs
will go quickly regardless.  You'll end up spending all your time trimming
the smaller brush off the trunks, cleaning up the brush, and moving all the
wood/branches/brush.  If your saw cuts twice as fast, you'll only save about
5 minutes a day.  (I think my Stihl 011 has a 2.1 or 2.3 Cu In engine, and it's
plenty -- they make larger saws which also have 16" bars, but I'm glad I got
the smaller/lighter one).

...Ken

    I bought two used Stihls out of the newspaper classifieds. Many folks
    buy them and use them very little and then decide to sell. I got them
    at 50% or less off of retail. 
    
    I like Stihl because just in case you need repair there are plenty
    of shops usually nearby.

    
     I used to work in a rental shop,and our chainsaws were only
     Stihl's. You wouldn't beleive the beating these things would
     take.(People who rent aren't always honest about what they are 
     going to cut!)
     Keep the plug and filter clean,chain sharp,and blade greased,
     and it will *always* start-up on the 1rst crank!
    
     Marc
    
      

    
    I been given a used Craftman Chainsaw and Craftman Weed-wacker. 
    Unfortunately they didn't come with users-manuals. Can someone tell 
    me what the fuel/oil mix ratio would be for these? 
    
    -John R.

Interesting question, given that I had a conversation with my
father-in-law about this. We were trying to guess the ratio for a
bush-whacker, and I said I'd guess it's either 32:1 or 50:1, and if we
used 32:1 and it was 50:1 it'd just smoke some but not damage the
engine.

He said no, that the oil you use must be the right oil, that 2-cycle
oil is labeled 50:1 or 100:1, etc., because you have to *that*, and
that one can only make a 32:1 mix with oil labeled 32:1. I said that I
was sure that 2-cycle oil is 2-cycle oil, that perhaps they modify oil
labeled for a certain ratio easier to mix for that ratio, but other
than that, just be sure you use 2-cycle oil and mix rich and not lean.

Who's all wet here?

Pete

    I think your F-I-L is correct, especially with the newer lean-mix oils.
    Back in the "old days" of 16:1 and 24:1 ratios, I think it was
    probably "just oil," but now I think it's a lot more specialized.
    Amsoil, for instance, has a 100:1 synthetic  2-cycle oil that
    (according to rumor, at least) should not be mixed richer than 100:1
    or it can gum up the piston rings.  But I'm no expert....
    

    re:1
    
    	Just to add some confusion to all of this, I have two stroke oil
    that gives a ozs. of oil/qts. of gas ranging from 16:1 up to 50:1.
    Perhaps the synthetic has a conversion chart, but the regular vanilla
    two-stroke oil is mixed according to the manual for the product.
    
    re:0
    	
    	A call to any Sears Service Center can probably get you a quick
    answer, if someone else here can't help.
    
    	Ray

    
       If you use an oil that is labeled for 20:1 use, then mix it
    20:1. If you buy the 50:1 oil mix it at 50:1. The oils are different.
    I believe the 50:1 oil is synthetic so it offers more protection than
    regular oil (organic ?). I always run it a bit richer on the oil to be 
    on the safe side. If you go too rich (oil) you'll foul plugs but you'll keep
    the bugs away with all that smoke.  8)  
    
                                                      Mark.

    	I went down to Wal-Mart the other day and they had two different
    brands of 2-stroke oil. Both had the charts on them for ozs. of oil per 
    gals. of gas. The charts ranged from 16:1 to 100:1.
    
    	Not to say that it doesn't exist, but I've never seen nor heard of
    2-stoke oil specially designed so that it can only be mixed at a
    particular xx:1 ratio. 
    
    	About the only thing close to this is that I have heard of outboard 
    manufacturers that claim that you should only use *their* brand of 
    outboard oil. Their claim was that it had some sort of additive which 
    made it flow better for use with oil-injection systems. 
    
    	Ray

    
    re-.1 The oil rating of the oil is the maximum mix ratio that it should
    be mixed at. So a 50:1 can be run at 1:1 up to 50:1. so i guess the
    100:1 could be mixed that high if thats what the manufacturer
    reccomends, but i've yet to see that. 
    
     In the old days everyone used to mix at 16:1 or 20:1, but now the oils 
    offer better lubrication so you don't need as much. Plus the new oils 
    (rated TCW-III) are better formulated to mix with todays gasoline and
    protect against carbon buildup.
    
     As far as the old use only the manufacturers oil... well they have the
    knowledge of just what conditions there motors will run at and can
    formulate their oil to meet it's need and not worry about any other
    brand motor. but I'm not convince they're any better than the top
    2-cycle oils out on the market.
    
     I've used golden spectral for all my dirtbikes  and older snowmobiles
    mixed at 50:1 and never had a problem. I use the manufacturer's brands
    for my oil injected motors in my snowmobiles only because of it's low
    temperature rating otherwise the non FI sleds get the golden spectral
    at 50:1. 
    
    You could check the boating/snowmobile/dirt bike notes files. They have 
    some pretty good discusions in there on this since they have thousands
    of $$$ in there machines.
    
    			   			/Mark

    	re:6
    
    	That sounds better. Note .4 made it sound like the oil was so
    specific, it could only be mixed at one particular ratio (i.e. 50:1 oil
    couldn't be mixed 16:1).
    
    	Ray

What is the proper way to prepare a 2-cycle engine for extended storage? 
SpecificalLy, what do I do to my gas trimmer to get it ready for winter?

AdditionalLy, does any know a good way to dispose of the left over fuel that
these engines use?  I know come next summer it will be all gummed up.  

TIA

    Use a gas stabilizer such as Sta-Bil.  Follow the instructions on the
    can.  Do this and your gas won't be gummed up.
    
    				Steve

FWIW, I keep a one gallon can of premixed 2-cycle fuel on hand at all
times, as I never know when I may need to break out the chainsaw in midwinter
for an emergency driveway clearing.

It hasn't ever caused me any problems in either my trimmers or the chainsaw.
The chainsaw is going on 13 years old and runs like new. I probably don't 
refill the can any more frequently than once a year, sometimes less. I don't
use any stabilizers in it.

The five gallon container of straight gas that I use to run the mower and
replenish this from, was last filled in 1992.

    
    
    Does anyone know if Poulan chain saws are now made by Husqvarna?
    
    My farther heard this from a friend. Also, the designs of the new Poulan
    vertical-cylinder machines do look very similar to those made by
    Husqvarna.
    
    John

    
    For every small gas engine I do the same thing. 
    
    Empty most of the gas out of the tank, put in some gas stabalizer,
    and run the engine until it stalls out.
    
    Wait a few minutes for the motor to cool, remove the spark plug, 
    spray some marine type engine store in the cylinder (I heard a 
    teaspoon of oil will also do), slowly pull it through a few of 
    times, replace the plug.
    
    Clean the air cleaner, lube it up, if it's a four cycle engine 
    change the oil.