Conference 7.286::home_work

    You can buy a masonry cut-off wheel for a hand held circular saw.
    I've used one in my Black & Decker to cut bricks and cement blocks.
    The bricks are much easier to cut since the cement usually has small
    quartz pebbles in it which slow down the saw and also wear it down
    faster.
    
    Dave

    P.S.  You can also get a saber saw blade which has abrasive grit
    instead of teeth on the edge. It is useful for cutting through plaster
    laid over metal mesh lath but whether or not it will cut through
    brick I don't know.
    
    Dave

Are you cutting this hole for the purpose of inserting a stove pipe?
     If so, then don't worry about how perfect the hole is.  When you
    fit the pipe throught the hole, use one of those donut-shaped metal
    rings around the pipe where it meets the brick wall.  That will
    cover any imperfections.  You can get the rings in silver, black
    or brass and in different sizes.  Check at a woodstove shop.
                                                    

    Cut as much of the brick as possible with a masonry blade in a
    circular saw.  If you're cutting a round hole, just spin the saw
    a few degrees each time and let it rip.  This results in a lot of
    cuts and a big mess, no doubt.  Then have it with a chisel, and mortar
    the pipe in place.  As .-1 mentioned it'll all be covered by 
    the metal ring.
    
    					Steve

    Also, have someone hold the nozzle of a shop vacuum cleaner near
    the cut to reduce the cloud of dust that will be generated.
    
    Dave

    re .3, .4   Yep, it's to insert the ceramic (fired clay) thimble
    for a wood burner.  Nope, a circular saw won't work; 6" hole.  The
    pieces of brick I am attempting to remove are preventing the thimble
    from sitting level; instead, there is a noticeable  tilt away from
    the stove.
    
    Dwight    

    I keep cleaning my brick patio with 50/50 solution of
    water and muratic acid, after which I rinse with water.
    Every time it dries there is this white chalk like color 
    on the brick. I read the notes on cleaning in this file 
    but I didn't find an answer. Has anybody got a suggestion?
    

    Have you tried scrubbing with a stiff brush (and rubber gloves)
    while the acid is on the surface?...mwr
    

    Sounds like calcium carbonate or calcium chloride is in solution 
    (probably from the mortar) in the cleaning mixture and upon drying 
    is deposited on the brick.  If your brick is clean, stop using 
    muriatic acid and clean with water and maybe just a push broom or 
    scrub brush.  I haven't done this, so this is just a suggestion.
    
    Stan

    I recently put in a concrete patio with brick ribbons.  My contractor
    said the phenomenon you are experiencing is called effervesence.
    It is caused by minerals in the water.  Because brick is very porous,
    moisture in the ground and from above is absorbed by the brick and
    as it evaporates the minerals are left on the surface.  My bricks
    turn very white on warm windy days.
    
    My contractor recommended;
    
    Hit it with the acid/water wash a scrub with stiff brush as you
    described.
    
    Then, immediatly (after bricks dry) seal them.  He recommended a
    water based sealer.  Apparently products like Thompsons Water seal
    are not water based and eventually yellow.  I found a product called
    Pheno-seal which is water based.  Very hard to find, try paint stores.
    One store told me they quit selling those because of some chemical
    in them is harmful (who knows?).  Anyway the down side to water
    based sealer is you need to re-apply bi-annually or as required.
    
    My experience;
    
    I cleaned the bricks and sealed them (2 coats).  Looked great!
    Found the mineral deposits returned rapidly.  Sooo, cleaned bricks
    with mild detergent (no acid, too many applications of acid will
    discolor the brick) and sealed again.  Looks great (semi-glossy)
    and very little mineral deposits returned and now they just hose
    off.
    
    If you can't find the water based sealer I'd go ahead with the other
    flavor as sealing is the key.  Also, the mineral content in the
    water in your area will have something to do with the amount of
    effervesence you have.  But, it can't be worse than where I live.
    
    Regards,
    
    Eric Who_couldn't_make_his_reply_any_shorter

    Thanks for all the suggestions. I scrubbed my brick patio with
    TSP (trisodium phosphate) a strong cleaner that you mix with water
    It looked better, but still a little hazy or white looking. I think
    I will try a lighter detergent soon and if that doesn't do it I
    will try what .3 suggested with a sealer. I hate to use something
    that will lead to some sort of routine maintenance as one of my
    reasons for brick was to get away from any type of maintenance.
    
    If anyone has experience with different sealers please advise
    
    Thanks Gary     

    
                How to Cut Bricks?
    
    I am in the process of building a brick walkway.  Due to the pattern
    that I am using, staggering the bricks, every other row has a half
    brick on each end.  All of the literature that I have read about
    building a brick walkway states that you should wait till the end
    of the project to cut the bricks.  I'm about half done and am getting
    frustrated looking at the number of bricks that I'm going to have
    to cut.  What is the best way to do this?  Any recommendations or
    experience that anyone has had will be appreciated.
    
    Anyone know anything about or had any experience with masonary power
    cutters or is the old hammer and chisel the best way?
    
    thanks

    I've cut bricks pretty easily with a cold chisel and a hammer. 
    Mark the brick where you want to cut it and light ly tap along that
    line until the brick breaks.  Usually they break pretty cleanly.
    
    George

      I went down to the local hardware store and bought a special
    blade that fit my skill saw. It worked great all I had to do tap
    the brick and presto a cut brick.
    
                   Rick

    
    The landscaper that just finished a brick walkway for me used a
    regular circular saw.  Obviously must have had a special blade on
    it, but it seemed to do the trick quite nicely.
    

    re .0	I've never built a brick walk way, so I don't know if
    you use anything like a regular brick layer's trowel or not.  Anyway,
    if you have one the simplest way is to just hold the brick in one
    hand and chip with the trowel edge along the line you want to cut.
    With practice you'll be able to halve a brick in two or three hits.
    Its important to hold the brick, if you lay it down its likely to
    break, you want it to crack along the line you're "suggesting" to
    it.
    
    	Reg
    
    Forget flying brick chips from saw blades & such !
    

    A masonary blade is the easiest way to go. A few tricks I've learned
    are: 1  build yourself a jig to hold the brick in place, keep the
    	    sides of the jig lower than 2" so the face your scoring
            with the blade is exsposed. you can get fancy and build
            in a stop if all the cuts are the same.
    
    	 2  set the blade to about 1/2 to 1" deep. Scribe the brick.
            Then place the brick in a box of sand, scribe side down
    	    and hit opposite the scibe with the edge of a hammer head.
    
    	3   Because of the mess work outdoors. And your cutting stone
    	    so safty glasses are amust. And lasty the blades wear down
    	    quickly, but a couple at a time.
    
    /Jim     	

    I think you'd probably have better luck with a mason's hammer than
    a trowel, but the approach is the same.  A mason's hammer has an 
    adz-like blade on one face, and a regular hammerhead on the other.
    You use the adz-like blade to score and crack bricks to a line.
    In theory.  There were some guys laying brick for the new sidwalks
    here in Maynard a week or two ago and they seemed to be able to
    cut bricks very accurately that way.  Of course, they probably had
    had a lot of practice.
    For us ordinary klutzes, sawing may get better results.  You can
    rent a wet saw with a diamond blade (sort of a super power miter
    box for stone-cutting) from places like Taylor Rent-All, that will
    do a superb job.  Probably cheaper to buy a mason's hammer though,
    or just use a wide cold chisel, if you can get acceptable results
    that way.

If you're going to cut a lot of bricks with a saw, be careful of damaging
the saw.  After I did my chimney, I noticed my new skil-saw sounded like
someone poured sand in the motor.  It stills works, but I think I reduced
its life expectancy.

Brad.

    I AGREE WITH THE METHOD MENTIONED IN REPLY #5.  THE ONLY DRAWBACK
    IS THE DUST MENTIONED AND THE RESULTS MENTIONED IN REPLY #7 COULD
    OCCURE.
    	
    ALOT OF THE DUST CAN BE ELIMINATED BY USING RUNNING WATER ON THE
    CUT.  THE AMOUNT MUST BE CONTROLLED,BECAUSE YOU ARE USING AN 
    ELECTRIC SAW!!

    
    
    	I have one of the PBS Hometime tapes for building walkways and
    patios. They recommend renting a pneumatic brick cutter. It looks
    to be about the size of a table saw, has a cutting blade that slides
    down on top of the brick, locks in place, and then you apply steady
    pressure via a foot pump until the brick breaks. On the tape, it
    took about 4 or 5 pumps for the brick to break and each one broke
    cleanly (ah the miracle of TV!!).
    
    	Has anybody had any experience with these things???
    
    Jim Halpin
    

     I've cut masonry bricks, slate, tile, etc., using various methods
    and if you have a lot of cutting to do, I'd recommend renting a
    wet saw. If there is only a few cuts you can get but with any of
    the methods mentioned above, caution... the dust generated from
    the use of a skill saw and a masonry blade is substantial and will
    shorten the life of your circular saw. I've seen gadgets that hook
    up to your skill saw that will put water on the cutting area but
    I'm not comfortable with the idea of using a saw designed for cutting
    materials (mainly wood) in a relativing dry environment, to now
    use it around water. My vote is to save the cutting to the end and
    rent the wet saw. The wet saw cuts through stone as easily as a
    normal saw through pine and the cut is nice and clean. What ever
    you choose make sure that if their is any water and electricity
    around, make sure your getting power from a GFI Protected Circuit.
    Buy the way the last time I rented a wet saw it cost me $15 a day
    and you can do alot of masonry cutting in one day.

    These are walkways, aren't they?  Some of you sound like you're
    putting cabinet furniture together.
    
    I have always used a chisel (I have forgotten the exact name - it's
    a cold chisel as wide as a brick) for years and I figure three whacks
    (well-placed, easy to learn on 3-4 bricks) a brick is faster and
    plenty neat enough for a walk.
    
    Pete

    This question is for a friend: he has check around in the Yellow
    Pages but has not been able to find INTERLOCKING concrete patio
    bricks. Anyone out there know of a place within 35 miles of
    Harvard, Mass that sells them?

    
    Thanks, Steve

    Foster Masonry on LawsBrook Road in Acton manufactures much of the
    masonry material in the area, including a lot of speciality items.
    They would be my first bet.
    

    Did you try Risi in Berlin, Mass?

    Yes, he did try Risi.

    
   	 Try IDEAL block, I don't have their addresses handy but they
    	have offices in Westford and Waltham.
 
    	 If I'm not mistaken, this company has featured some of their 
    	stuff on This Old House.
    
    
    	Glenn

Sometimes they are called "pavers". Each brick is pressure molded
with concrete and is therefore denser than normal concrete.
Prices are around $1-$2/ sq.foot. The best sources are:
1)Neighbors who have interlocking driveways, sideyards or
  drive around residential area. Unfortunately, I don't know
  of a good way to approach the owner (besides ringing
  the bell).
2)Shopping centers. They have gained popularity. Ask the
  administration for the name.
3)City sidewalks. Call City Hall.

    I bought some of the same ones used on "This Old House" from the
    Wetherbee Farm project.  They used the "Uni" paver.
    
    I got them from Ideal Block on Powers Road in Westford.  I paid
    $1.79/Sq Ft/delivered to Hopedale, MA.  I have done my front walkway
    and I am in the process of putting them around my in ground pool.
    
    I have found them to be very easy to work with and to easy to cut the
    odd angles around my Grecian shaped pool.
    
    
    IDEAL CONCRETE -- (617) 692-3076 -- 52 POWER RD, WESTFORD, MA 

    
    			
    
    		C. John

    There is a masonry store just down the street -closer to Acton-
    from Wickes on rte 27 in Acton. Don't remember name

    Just for a check, call Routhier in Nashua, NH. I was surprised to
    find that both the cost of bricks AND DELIVERY was cheaper that
    getting them at the local supplier (Sterling, MA)

    Any good for driveways? Available anywhere near Weare,N.H.?

    
    	re .10
    		 The pavers from IDEAL block in Westford MA are touted
    		for their durability, especially on driveways. The base
    		for a driveway is at least as important as the blocks
    		themseleves and should be prepeard very carefully by
    		compaction or a concrete base.
    
    
    		Glenn
    

    re .10
    
    These pavers are available at BRICRETE in Goffstown.  For a modest
    fee, they will deliver.  If the quantity is large enough, it might
    be free.  Be warned though that they only accept check or cash,
    no credit cards.
    
    Dan

    
    	Was wondering if anyone has any favorite places to purchase
    	construction bricks (as apposed to landscaping bricks). I
    	like the 'used' brick look for the fireplace hearth that I am
    	putting in. Figure for the whole job I'll need about 600 
    	bricks. I can haul them in my truck, but prefer not to move
    	them more than an hour drive from my home in Bolton, MA.
    	Any pointers to some good deals appreciated. 
    
    	
    
    /Kevin 

    I've used M.J. Pirolli in the past for my masonry projects and I
    would recommend them to you.  They're on Irving Street, off of Arsenal
    Street in Watertown.  They're right off the Pike so you should beat
    the 1 hr. time limit to Bolton but, to be honest, I don't know if
    it's a good place to buy your brick since it is rather far for you.
    
    I bought used and "Cape Cod" (if I remember right) bricks there
    and they were priced competitively.  If I remember right, I paid
    32 cents @ for the used brick.  Mind you, any sales below pallet
    size, you have to load onto your truck, which is good and bad. 
    Good because you pick the used bricks you like and bad because you
    have to load all of them yourself.  Net net, I much rather go through
    this trouble since there is a wide spectrum of quality in the used
    brick section.
    
    Alfonso

	Monday my wife and passed a recently demolished building, a
    crew was leveling the site, we asked, and took home twelve hundred
    bricks.  Most will have to be cleaned, and we will get some breakage,
    but the price was right, nothing, but sore backs loading and unloading.
    If you are not in a rush watch for a building coming down, another
    source is DEC Notes classified, and the Want Advertiser.

    
    I've used Martingetti in Woburn for sand, bricks, stone, etc. 
    
    The prices are always good. They're also very knowledgeable and
    helpful. Give them a ring before you buy. 
    
    I did some work last year requiring a few hundred brick and a ton of
    sand. Even with a $ 45. delivery charge to come out to Acton, they were
    still cheaper than anyone else in the area.  
    
    Check out used brick in person, the condition varies a lot. 

    Try Risi, in Berlin, their prices have been competitive with
    other suppliers in the area.  I have also bought brick from
    DelGreco (route 20 in Northboro) and Handyman (route 20 in
    Marlboro).
    
    
    Mark
    

    re .3 I wasn't able to get a business listing for "Martingetti"
    	in Woburn. Could you post a number? Thanks.
    
    /Kevin

    I think I should have spelled it "Martinghetti"
    The phone # is 617-935-6677.  

    I am taking down an old fireplace and chimney which I will be 
    replacing.  I would like to use the old bricks in the new fire place
    What is the technique for getting the old mortar off the bricks ?
    
    Paul
    
    

Get a brick hammer and go to it.  I know of no easier way.  That's part of the 
reason used brick are generally more expensive than new.

Paul

>> Get a brick hammer and go to it.  

Yep.  I took a course on Masonry at NH Voc Tech.  You can also use a 
brick chisel (about 3-4" wide) and a good masonry hammer to remove mortor.


                                Kurt

    reply: 2 and 3 are correct but depending on quality of lime vs cement
    used in the origional mix your job could be less ofa headace.
      Try saturating brick in water or spraying excessive amount on
    the pile. If the brick was manufactured from clay the job will go
    easier since clay takes on water and expands. Lime base motar will
    flake off by itself. (to some degree)
     Bricks baked in the last 15 years are another story. This is where
    the chisel and hammer come in. I've seen people grind the old cement
    off but this is excessivly dirty and dusty. 
     One other means that works well in either case was to clean the bricks
    around this time of year. Semi-frozen bricks clean easier.
     Three years ago I cleaned 18K using the above mention teck. Water and
    steel is the answer. Hopefully you'll use very little steel. Good
    Luck in any case.     

I want to cut some brick in half length wise to use to face an old chimney which
I have unearthed.  Does that sound possible?  Do you think it will make a
difference in the ease of cutting if I have perforated or solid bricks? I
imagine the perforated brick wouls be easier.

I'd like to cut the bricks in half to lessen the weight I'd adding to the
chimney, which was obviously never meant to be exposed.  Or should I just
use the Zbrick stuff?  I'd be willing to use it if it is real brick, and
was fireproof, and I could get some that looked like real brick.

Jim.

    You can buy real face brick, try a few of the places listed in this
    notes file, Ideal block is one that springs to mind.
    								Chris

    Add a twist to the original question - how can I remove and replace 
    orignial bricks on my 1904 house; I have sufficient original brick, 
    so size and age are no problem. I want to replace singles here and 
    there, how can I remove and more importantly how do I do a good
    replacement job especially getting the mortar in the slot and
    finishing? Is there such a thing as replacing only the face as in
    veneer??

    re .4
    
    As I understand it, in addition to the problems of technique that you
    mentioned (about which I know nothing), you'll also have problems of
    material.  It's good that you have original bricks; you also need
    old-style mortar, and not just for reasons of appearance.  Apparently
    modern mortar is incompatible with old mortar and bricks.  The new
    stuff is enough harder, and expands/contracts with temperature
    differently enough, that it damages older materials it's applied to.
    
    The distinction between old and modern is the introduction of Portland
    cement into the mix.  (It occurs to me that this transition began in
    the 1880s, so your 1904 construction may be OK.)
    
    I read about all this in a recent issue of The Old-House Journal.  That
    issue also had a recipe for old-style mortar.

    
    >It occurs to me that this transition began in
    >the 1880s, so your 1904 construction may be OK
    
    From what I've seen it was still used in the earl 1900's. 
    
    As for what should be used?  Well, if it's not mixed with the
    old mortar, I think it would be OK.  BTW, the new style of mortar was
    used in the Mill for a lot of patching/rework.  I don't know if
    it's created many problems or not, but you can check it out. 
    

    Thanks for the input re old vs. new mortar. Any input re special types 
    of chisels for removing the old mortar from the bricks while
    they are still in the wall?? 

    Thanks for the input re old vs. new mortar. Any input re special types 
    of chisels for removing the old mortar from the bricks while
    they are still in the wall?? 

>> I had a mason remove & replace some bricks from my fireplace and he 
>> used a drill with a masonry bit to remove most of the old mortar.  It 
>> worked like a charm and probably did a lot less injury to the rest of 
>> the masonry.


                                      Kurt

< Note 3087.8 by RITA::HYDE "Migratory Database Worker" >
                             -< Consider drilling >-

    Thanks for the input re old vs. new mortar. Any input re special types 
    of chisels for removing the old mortar from the bricks while
    they are still in the wall?? 

>> I had a mason remove & replace some bricks from my fireplace and he 
>> used a drill with a masonry bit to remove most of the old mortar.  It 
>> worked like a charm and probably did a lot less injury to the rest of 
>> the masonry.


                                      Kurt

    There are special chisels that masons use to remove mortar between
    bricks that are in place. It is a cold chisel that is about 1/4" wide
    with a long snout, so that you can get between the bricks. Masons also
    use some very wide chisels for cutting bricks - these would only be
    useful if the bricks were loose. 
    
    You might also try a *small* rotary hammer, switched to chisel mode.
    You can rent one at your local rental place. Get the largest that looks
    practical, don't get one intended for really big projects. 

    I am not familiar with a rotary hammer, can anyone shed some light
    on this; is it electric, pneumatic, bigger than a bread box, ...
    
    Thanks,

    Having just completed repointing the brick in my foundation (set on
    top of fieldstone 6" underground on up) I can relate my experience. 
    Our house is 119-131.  Mortar was lime based.  I used Type"O" mortar
    which is 1 part portland cement to 2 parts lime to 7.5 parts sand. 
    Where I did wholesale reconstruction I beefed the mix to 1:1:3. 
    Installing and repointing was fairly easy, definitely a diy job.  Water
    worked fantastic in removing the mortar (also a wire brush and an old
    stanley wood chisel I use for beating about).  If you repoint, get a
    "tuck pointing tool either 3/8 of 1/4.  It speeds up the job alot. Ken

    
    
    		This hopefully will fall under this note although it is
    	180 degrees out of phase...  I noticed when inspecting my chimmney
    	that one row of bricks about 4 rows down from the top has loose
    	mortar all around.  It is possible to buy some material that would
    	work like calking that could be inserted as the old morter is taken
    	out?  What I am really saying is that for one row it seems like a
    	lot of work to work up a batch of mortar just for that row!  Any
    	ideas on this one would be appreciated.
    

    Having done a search in the Bricks and windows directories and not
    finding what I need, I'll try my luck on a new note. I'm about to
    begin construction of a 20' x 12' outbuilding that I'll be using as
    a shop here in Texas (yes, I'm now there and not in Nashua any longer).
    The local building code requires the building to me brick (like the
    house), so some new fun. I've done many projects like this, but all
    have had wood or shingle siding. The slab foundation was done as-
    suming brick, but my questions are about rough opening door/window
    openings and positioning said doors/windows in the wall. This was
    straight foward with wood, but what differences are there in brick
    (besides the need of lentels above the openings. Thanks for the help.
    
    Eric

Eric,
	Don't know if this helps but the Marvin window catalog I have
shows how their windows are placed into both wood and brick. I got mine
at the local window store.

		Bill

  The bricks in my chimney seem to be disintegrating.  The brick seems
  to be flaking off in layers.   There's always chips of brick laying
  on the ground within days of cleaning it up.  They're not all doing
  it but significant numbers are.  I've more or less ignored it for
  a couple of years now but some of the bricks are starting to look
  like one quarter of the width has fallen off.  It's down to past the
  mortar line.  Any ideas on how to stop this?
  Thanks,
  John

What is probably happening is that the brick is porous and water enters the
brick surface, freezes and flakes the brick.  You do live in a beautiful :-)
climate like New England, right?  Do you notice all the flaking in the spring?
Like in May? ;-)

Try sealing the brick with a masonry sealer.

Stan

  Yes, I live in New England.  I think it is the worst in spring.
  Would masonry sealer change the color of the brick?
  Thanks

re: 4235.0 -< bricks breaking up >-


>The bricks in my chimney seem to be disintegrating.  The brick seems
>to be flaking off in layers.   There's always chips of brick laying
>on the ground within days of cleaning it up.  They're not all doing

    I don't think its the New England climate. I have some really old
    bricks in my chimney (the house dates back to 1849); and I have been
    on my roof an average of three times a year; the bricks are not doing
    what yours are.
    
    I think I'd call some Masonry expert (other than New England
    Brickmaster) for professional advice. It sounds like the bricks are
    failing. Are they very old bricks; or modern ones ?
    
    Are they decorative pseudo-bricks or full bricks ?
    
    Is it in a chimny, fireplaces, walkway, etc ?
    
    The brick in my fireplaces "probably" are as old as the house. and
    though the surfaces have deteriated some; it sounds nowheres near as
    bad as the ones desribed in .0 .
    
    It is my understanding that there are many grades of bricks, even
    brick substitutes that look like brick; but are made by a different
    prcess (cheaper), and intended only for decoration. There is no
    telling what a shoddy contractor or DIY'r might do.
    
    _bob
    
    

No, they're not old.  The bricks are part of the chimney (outside) for
a new addition that was put on about 8 years ago.  They don't look like
they were used brick.  May be a good idea to get an expert opinion.
Thanks,
John

As .3 said there are a lot of different bricks around.  They vary widely in
strength and porosity.  If they are too porous they are subject to freezing
problems.  The age of bricks without problems only testifies to their quality.

Stan

    We just had all four of our chimneys repaired (and five fireboxes as
    well). In some cases, not much repair was needed.  One section of one
    chimney, however, looked like Swiss cheese.  (This particular section,
    which was partly visible for inspection from the attic, was within the
    wall of an upstairs bedroom -- surrounded by nice, *dry* lathing!)
    
    It seems that "soft" or porous bricks had been used in some places, and
    these were the ones that disintegrated.  Other bricks -- the "hard"
    ones -- were still just fine after some 200 years.  The exterior
    portion of the chimneys were made using hard bricks, but sometimes the
    soft bricks were used in the interior where they presumably were less
    exposed to the elements.
     
    Unfortunately, the chimneys had never had dampers.  So rain and snow
    fall right in (not to mention birds, but that's another story!). 
    Furthermore, tree and fire damage had allowed water to seep down the
    wall.  So...take these ingredients, add time, and mix...and you can
    figure the rest. 
    
    Needless to say, I highly recommend having chimneys inspected
    *thoroughly*, by a skilled stonemason.  (I can recommend one in the
    Southern New Hampshire area.)
    
    -steve
    
    
    
    

    I had a chimney built about 5 years ago. The mason used at least three
    grades of bricks. One interior, two exterior. The exterior bricks
    are much harder and do not absorb much water.  the interior bricks were 
    used "used" bricks and were not very hard. The exterior bricks
    were new "used" bricks and were less pourous. 
    
    He also purchased about a dozen higher grade bricks to use where the
    fireplace slopes, as this area would be subject to constant dripping
    when it rained. We had a few bricks left over and they were stored
    outside behind the shed. The interior bricks that were stored outside 
    are now mostly flaking apart. 
    
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    Hello,
    
    Does anyone know how to remove paint from mortar between bricks?
    The owner of the house before us painted between the bricks a gray
    color and it looks awful. 
    
    I'd appreciate any help you can offer.
    
    Thanks,
    Joyce

    
    That's a definate no-no for most folks, because;
    
      The only SURE-FIRE way to REMOVE the paint is with a sand-blaster!
    
      Not the cleanest/safest way...just the most effective.
        **   D***ed dust gets into EVERYTHING!
    
      Sorry 'bout that.
    Dick (not an expert)
    

    
    I've cleaned brick with diluted muriatic acid and a stiff brush.  I'm
    not sure if this will lift paint or not but its cheaper than
    sandblasting.
    
    Now, is it acid to water or the other way around...
    
    -Ian

    
    Are you certain tha it is paint over the cement and not a pigment
    added to the cement?  It must have taken the previous owner a long
    time to paint the joints...
    
    If it is paint, then it will be difficult to remove without staining
    the brickwork - assuming you use a chemical remover.  Sandblasting is
    one sure way, but is messy, expensive etc.
    
    You could try a wire wheel brush in a hand drill.  Pointing cement is
    usually not a very stron mortar mix and the surface becomes friable -
    so the paint might not be adhereing too strongly to the mortar surface.
    
    Another way would be to cut out the old pointing with a sharp pointing
    chisel and then re-point the brickwork.  If the pointing mortar is old
    and soft, you can remove it even more quickly with carbide routing bit
    in a hand drill.
    
    Bear in mind that you do not want to be doing any pointing work in
    freezing weather - it will crack and fall out in a few months.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    

    If it were me, I'd call my local mason and ask his/her opinion.  They
    do stuff like this all the time, and often they don't charge much for
    it, since they do it so quickly.
    
    Ours washed down the whole chimney (inside the house) with acid as his
    last act.  It looks beautiful now, and I didn't have to deal with the
    acid.
    
    Elaine
    

Try using lye.  It often removes paint.

just don't use the lye and muriatic acid at the same time, things could get
"interesting"...  :-)

-Mike

    Notes 791.13 and the string beginning at 28.22 discuss a chemical
    product called Peel-Away-<roman_numeral> that supposedly removes paint
    from masonry.  I bought a gallon but have yet to try it out.  Cost was
    $20-$25 over a year ago.
    
    	Marlene

    I just bought a red-brick house. It has a rougher brick surface and wider 
    concrete seam betweem bricks than other brick houses I've been seeing.
    Is this because of the quality of the bricks and the way builder out
    them on?
    
    I wonder if anyone knows if the wall like this should be refinished
    and how to finish it and at what cost, etc..
    
    I'm new to this note. If this has been mentioned in other topics please
    give me a point.
    
    Thanks in advance!
    Jason

    I just bought a red-brick house. It has a rougher brick surface and wider 
    concrete seam betweem bricks than other brick houses I've been seeing.
    Is this because of the quality of the bricks and the way builder out
    them on?
>>>Impossible to tell without being an expert and seeing the work. Did you 
have a house inspector do a full report on the house? It doesn't sound like 
it. We have recommendations in here for many good house inspectors and 
discussions of why they are worth every penny you pay them usually.
    
    I'm new to this note. If this has been mentioned in other topics please
    give me a point.
    
>>>May I suggest you read 1111.24, the index on bricks, and 1111.90 
exterior siding, non-wood for nearly 100 discussions already in here on 
brickwork, including cleaning, quality, and repairs. you may get some ideas 
about whether you should be worried or not. I won't write-lock this note 
now, I don't have time to see if there are specific notes that deal with 
your question, but do read the index as I'll bet you will find lots in 
there already on brickwork that you need to know.

    Vic

    
        I want to put in a "flagstone" style walkway leading to my
    children's sandbox/swingset. I want to use something whimsical like
    a block in the shape of a foot print (about 18x10). I know I 
    have seen these somewhere, but I can't remember where. Please
    help me out!
    
                                       Thanks,
    
    

    You can make your own out of concrete (cement) with a mold of whatever
    you would like to make.  You can also color the mixture with whatever
    color you would like to make it fun for them.  Or you could paint them
    afterwards.  This is more work, but less expensive and it could be a
    fun project for the kids to participate with you.  Let them sign their
    work on each "toe"...
    
    Just my $.02 worth...      have fun with whatever you do.

    Hi all,
    
    I am going to re-brick/re-face the fireplace (woodstove hookup) in my
    home.  I need to know roughly how many bricks I will need to complete
    the job.  The opening is 7.5 ' by 5 '.  And I will be using standard
    4"x8" bricks to do the job.  How many bricks will I need?
    
    
    Thanks for the help
    
    Kevin "Who_is_not_a_masonary_person_by_far"

    	If you are re-bricking just the face, can't you just count the ones
    you already have ???
    
    	Ray

    Is a brick 4x8? I thought they were nominally 3x6x3.
    
    My rough calc is as follows:
    
           W x H
     ------------------
       (a + x)(b + x)
    
Where:  W = width of wall in inches         90
    	H = height of wall in inches        60        5400
    	a = height of brick                  3        ----
    	b = width of brick                   6        20.32
    	x = half the width of the joint.     .25
    
    Which I calculate to be 265 and add another 5 for breakages: 270
    
    Colin

    
    
    	When I asked about how many bricks I'd need to build a walkway,
    	the people att Courriveau-Routhier said 'Multiply the number of
    	square feet by 4.5. If you plan to do a bunch of curving or
    	cutting, multiply square feet by 5'.
    
    	Sq. ft. X 4.5 = number of bricks needed
    
    	I do not vouch for this formula, as I have managed to convince my
    	wife that the walkway can wait till next spring.
    
    	John
    

    
    -1  
    
    Is that for laying them face up, or edge up?
    
    C
    

    Re .1  
    
    The original wall was put up only halfway and half-assed...The spacing
    between the bricks was varied.
    
    Re .2 + .3
    
    Thanks for the input.  Those numbers sound good.  I talked with the
    people at Home Depot and they gave me a figure of 450.....
    
    Re .4
    
    They will be put in face-up.
    
    Thanks for all the input
    
    Kevin

    
    You're right about the size in the US - commons are typically 2.75x8x3.25
    The estimating figure is 6.16 per sq ft, which is 231+ for your wall.
    maybe the HD estimate was for double thickness?
    
    C
    

    
    you have to sort through the bricks before you start the project
    and look for rejects.  5 xtra isn't enough.
    
    Since these are going to be visible, you may find out that some
    bricks are un-usable because of color, shape or cracks.  Better 
    to keep them aside for fillers.
    
    
    Gary

    Brick vs Pavers --- Which is Better and Why?
    
    Hi,
    
    We're having a brick path put in.  At least I thought it would be
    brick.  The mason recommends using pavers instead (they look like
    brick, but aren't).  I've noticed that lots of new homes are using them
    too.
    
    Pavers look fine.  But does anyone know anything about them?  Why
    they're being used?  Advantages/Disadvantages?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Gale
    

    
    
    See 1191.4   In short Pavers are concrete and hold up better than
                 regular (clay) brick...
    
    
    /Charlie

    
    Apart from unit cost, the concrete pavers are very uniform in size
    and quality so the installer can lay them quickly. They also
    stand up a lot better to the freeze/thaw cycle that you get in
    the NE.
    
    Even best SW kiln paving bricks are less uniform - prone to internal
    flaws that cause them to crack and flake.  As you lay each brick
    you should visually inspect it for flaws and strike it with the
    edge of a trowel so the it "rings". A flawed brick produces a dull
    sound.
    
    You can improve the weather-resistance by treating a brick path with
    a silicone product like thompsons.  It prevents the water soaking the
    brick, which is what causes the cracking during freezes.  But you
    have to accept that the path won't hold up as well as if it were
    paved with concrete pavers. 
    
    

I was surprised not to see the keyword 'masonry' in 1111, but perhaps this topic
can be found under something else...

I want to brick over both an existing concrete stoop as well as precast concrete
steps.  The question is "should I try it myself?"  The answer is "I think so,"
but I thought I'd see if anyone else has already tried this. 

I guess the thing that worries me the most is keeping the brick clean!  I know
that when you do the 'pointing' it can get somewhat messy and needs to be 
cleaned with muriatic [sulphuric] acid.  I'm just not sure how easy/hard this
step really is.  Having done a lot of floor tiling, I suspect there are 
similarities, but I also suspect there are unique parts as well.

The other thing I wonder about is cutting the bricks.  If I could do the job in 
a single day, it might be worth it to rent a wet-saw, but being my first attempt
it could take a lot longer and multiday rentals start to add up.

-mark

You can seal the bricks before you start in order to facilitate
cleanup of stray mortar later, and to prevent it from staining
to some degree. Any ceramic floor dealer would carry sealers
that will work (same stuff used on quarry tile). Or, you could
be careful. :^)

As for cutting, get yourself a mason's chisel and hammer. You'll
get the hang of it quickly (though you will waste a few bricks.)

>I was surprised not to see the keyword 'masonry' in 1111, but perhaps this topic
>can be found under something else...

CHIMNEYS&BRICKS

Do not buy a masonry blade for a mitre saw (assuming you have one)  They 
don't work (believe me I know).  About the only thing they are good for is 
cleaning up the edges once you cut them with a brick set (chisel).  A brick 
set (and a 5lb sledge) worked fine for me on pavers (which are hardened) 
and would probably be a breeze with regular brick.  I brick set will cost 
you $10-12.  However a brick set will only really work for straight cuts 
about in the middle of the brick.  If you need angles or other more precise 
cuts, rent the saw.

    While enjoying a fire tonight, I noticed a crack running from the upper
    left of my fireplace opening up and under the mantel.  It zigged around
    some of the bricks, cracking the mortar, but also went straight through
    some bricks.  I've called the contractors and they'll stop by next
    week, but I figured I should get some advice here in advance.
    
    I'm assuming the crack is cosmetic - no sign of settling - so I have
    two choices - replace or cover up.  Replacing would be a mess and some
    of the bricks are partially covered by the mantel.  Also, the chances
    of matching the original mortar are nil, so you'll see the outline of
    the new mortar.  So repair looks like the way to go.
    
    The crack is about 1/16th, so pushing in new material in the mortar
    cracks should be ok.  Not sure about the bricks.  What's the best way
    to match the color.  Do I tint mortar?  refractory cement (easier to
    push in the crack?).  Should I mix some sort of epoxy concoction to
    reinforce the bricks to prevent further cracking?
    
    Would a "regular" mason know what to do or do I need a restoration
    expert with his bag of tricks?
    
    tnx
    
    Chris

>    some of the bricks, cracking the mortar, but also went straight through
>    some bricks.  I've called the contractors and they'll stop by next

>     I'm assuming the crack is cosmetic - no sign of settling - so I have
>    two choices - replace or cover up.  Replacing would be a mess and some


    These two statements don't jive. If you've got cracks going
    THROUGH a brick, then you've got some type of shifting or settling
    going on.  Have your contractor or mason check it out, but you
    may opt for choice 3, Ignore it!

    If it doesn't get any bigger and doesn't affect the fireplace
    operation, then you just might want to leave it alone.

    Charly

The hard part about ignoring it is that I see it from every vantage point in
the family room -and- the FP is less than two years old with only about 6 fires
to-date.  But your advice has been received - as a typical AR homeowner, I can
think of lots of things I "fixed" that should have been left alone!

I stuck my head inside this morning to get a good look.  As with most modern
fireplaces, there is a "unit" that is installed that contains the damper and
the "ceiling" for the forward part of the firebox.  Based on the crack, I could
guess that it -may- be due to heat-related expansion of the steel.  Of course,
I suspect that should be taken into account during installation.  Then again,
it could be settling, although that is scary too.

I'll let you know.

Chris

    You might want to epoxy a bit of glass across the crack and leave
    it for a few weeks.  Do this across a pointing joint so that you don't
    get epoxy on the bricks.  If the glass keeps breaking indicating that the
    joint is still moving then it's probably not worth trying to fill
    the crack and you have to address the problem of what is causing it.
    
    Colin
    

Has anyone put down a brick walk???  I would appreciate some basic instructions. 
Should I mortar it or will sand fill do.  Is there a difference as to appearance
and durability??? thanks  Paul thibault

    Don't use mortar.  The best is to use crushed stone as a base and to
    fill in between cracks.  You can use bricks standing on end as borders
    to hold the bricks in place, but I think the plastic "edging" that is
    held down with humongous spikes (buy it where you buy bricks) is more
    durable.  You'll need a tamper to do a really good job.
    
    Consider using concrete pavers instead of bricks - cheaper and more
    durable.
    
    				Steve

    Consider renting a motorized compactor.  I put one in last year with
    paver bricks on 18 inches of stone dust.  I compacted it with a hand 
    tamper after wetting down the stone dust.  It settled one inch over the 
    winter.  Of course this was a real rough winter for frost heaving.  
    
    
    Good Luck
    
    Bruce  

    
    I installed a brick (Boston Pavers) walk which has been through 2
    winters now. This is what I did...
    Remove the topsoil down to gravel (8" max. in my case) 
    Backfill with stonedust to a level below grade the thickness 
    of the pavers.
    Level the backfill and pack. 
    Wet and let sit over night. 
    The following day fill low spots
    Install Pavers to the disired pattern leaving 1/4 - 1/2 inch spacing
    Sweep in stone dust between spacings. 
    
    Keep your rows straight with a length of 2x4 the width of your walk. 
    40" to 48" is standard width. 
    As I said, Mine has been through 2 winters now. Although the ground 
    heaves with frost it always smooths back to flat when it thaws. And 
    it is perfectly flat now with no high or low spots. It looks great.
    The only thing I would do different, mine has a slight slope in grade.
    And over time the pavers seem to be sliding down grade. I'd build up
    the grade and put steps in if I were to do it again.
    
    steve
     
    

I'm looking to cover an area 22' x 45' (patio) with brick. The base is crushed
stone with stone dust covering, all compacted and leveled.

The cost of regular pavers is higher than I expected ($1.80 to $2.20/sqaure). 
I've seen patio blocks which are poured cement (no compacted). The cost of 
these are 1/3 of the cost ($.65/square) of pavers and can be put down much 
faster/easier.

I'm looking to cover the patio for 3-5 years, then possibly pull the top
off and replace with pavers (possibly reshaping to the patio to accomodate
a pool).

Any info on what kind of service to expect from these bricks and any pros
and cons would be appreciated.

Doug.

    	With a proper base, either should hold up well. About the only
    problems I expect over time is that weeds seem to grow between the
    cracks no matter what you do (short of mortering them that is).
    
    	In this case, the patio block will have less crack available.
    Personally though, I find the brick much more asthetically pleasing.
    I guess this doesn't help much :-(
    
    	Ray

You can get concrete pavers which look remarkably like brick.  We have these in
our front walkway.  In fact, I'd say they look better than brick, and they
won't be as subject to cracking as clay bricks are.

					Steve

yes, concrete pavers are the prefered choice, but the budget is not
equiped to handle the $2/square it would cost.

For a patio, and one that is temporary, the patio blocks should be fine.

			Steve

    Well, maybe there are other options.
    
    What about the concrete brick forms where it is about a 2'x2' plastic
    mold that you fill with cement and then move it and fill it again? I've
    seen this in Popular Science, at home store and even on This Old House
    or Hometime. Somewhat permanent, but you can do it yourself.
    
    Then, in some of the expensive homeowner magazines, they have molds for
    creating round concrete "blocks" with patterns on them. You could make
    these, butt them together and file in the area left with stone or
    something. 
    
    Purchasing a finished paver job can be expense. I did it to replace my
    walk. I'm extremely pleased with what I got, but it was expensive.
    However, if you're handy, you can do a paver job yourself, but get some
    videos and really think about it. When I saw the video, I decided it
    was just too big a job and I wanted my front walkway to look really
    great. 

    Home Depot has the plastic molds for forming stones or bricks with 
    concrete.  Friend did the stones and it turned out ok.  His workmanship
    wasnt all that good though.  Depending on the size you want to cover
    it could be cheaper alot to use bricks then buying the mold and concrete.
    
    Gary

    re: cost
    
    	Ready-mix concrete is pretty cheap (~$2 for 60 lb. bag). I'd think
    that you could get at least 2 or 3 of the cement stone-looking molds
    per bag. Not sure what the mold costs, but after the initial purchase,
    the molded stone pavers themselves would be pretty cheap.
    
    	Of course this assumes that you DIY. If you had to pay someone to
    do this, it would be *much* more expensive. It is also going to take a 
    while to make enough blocks for a decent sized walkway.
    
    	Ray

what is the general thought on how deep one needs to go?  I want to put in a 
brick walk and from what I've been hearing, you put in X inches of crushed 
stone covered with Y inches of stone dust.  What I'm not sure of is how big are
X and Y...

-mark

Has anyone done anything with curved brick walks?  I'm particularly interested
in something that starts off straight then then curves.  Any pointers to any
books on the subject?

I've been taking a closer look at some existing walks and all kind of weird
things happen since one ends up with rows of different lengths since you 
actually have concentric circles of increasing diameters!  In the walks I've
looked at, one periodically inserts half bricks to maintain the staggered
pattern.  Also, as the bricks don't butt up against each other evenly, one has
to either increase the width or reduce the number of bricks making up the
width.

I assume there's a method to doing this but don't know how to begin and was
looking for some tips...

-mark

Practice with dominos?  Sunset or Ortho or one of those series of home
improvement books lining the racks at Home Depot type places has one on
walks and patios with a very nice chapter on laying out brick.  My curve
went down very easily as I recall.  I was working with water struck brick
so they weren't all the same size anyway so that may actually have made
it easier.  I recall sometimes when two bricks lined up I'd swap for a 
shorter or longer and offset by some amount.  The walk came out very nicely.

The base really depends on your substrate. I've got excellent drainage and
a firm soil base so I laid 3"-4" of 3/4"gravel and 2" of stone dust and 
haven't had any problems in 6 years.  OK, one problem. My 7 year was looking
for worms for a fishing trip but we eventually got those bricks to lay 
flat again. :-}

-Bob 

    My husband did one for our front walk. There's not much of a
    straight-way, except right in front of the porch stairs. He
    basically made it S-shaped, and used two circles to mark
    the edges. The pattern I picked had enough "give" in it that
    I don't think he had to cut any bricks. The pattern was effectively
    two copies of the same square placed  side-by-side. We allowed the
    pattern to drift so they weren't always exactly side by side. I hope
    this makes sense.....
    Sue
    
    p.s. I picked the pattern from a book called "The Homeowner's Guide to
    Building with Concrete, Bricks and Stone", from the Portland Cement
    Association. 1988. Rodale Press.
    

the walk project is well underway as I've been doing a lot of digging.  Alas,
I'm still confused over what the base should be.  I've seen varying opinions
(and notes in here) ranging from a solid based up to 18" deep of stone dust,
to only going as far as below the topsoil (4-8 inches depending on how much
you have).  Some folks vote for crushed stone and only a few inches of 
stonedust.  Still other references talk about using SAND as opposed to the stone
dust.

Arguments for the crushed stone layer include drainage and less settling.  An
earlier noter talked about an 18" layer of stone dust that settled an inch.

I'm leaning towards the 2-layer model but would like to hear more...

-mark

I was told by the place where I picked up my brick pavers that no more than 4"
of stone dust should be used.  I WILL wash away.  He recommended any kind of 
non-organic fill to make up the difference of what you needed to remove to get
below the organic (aka topsoil) and the 2-4" of stonedust.

If you pack stonedust good - it does not settle at.  I don't think I would want
crushed stone/gravel under the stone dust - I would think it would lead to
"mini-pot-holes" under the walk as the stone dust found its way between the
crushed stone.

bjm

Mark,

I put 6-9" of "masonry sand" (sand which is used in concrete
mix) under mine.  Eight years later it looks as good as the day
I did it.

I guess you know what my vote would be.

					Mark

    They talk about this on the This Old House web site.
    ( http://pathfinder.com/TOH/ )
    
    Basically it looks like they do much the same as note 638.103,
    i.e. gravel and then 2 in. of stone dust. 
    
    (Of course, it's a TOH project, so you have to re-build your
     garage and plant a new lawn also! ;-)  )  
    
    

well I just got a ton (actually multiple tons) of crushed stone to spread the
bed for the stone dust, but I'm still a little confused.  I plan to put in
'soldiers' on either side of my walk, so I'll have 8" high vertical bricks
surrounding the walk.  

The problem is I've yet to see a description (or discussion) on how to deal with
the fact that the soldiers extend below the bottom of the relatively thin layer
of stone dust.  Does one put the soldiers directly on top of the crushed stone
(will the be stable enough) or do you need to do some strange tapering to get
a few inches of the dust under the soldiers while still keeping the layer
under the bulk of the walk down to 2-4 inches?

I'm also confused about the relationship between laying the soldiers and 
spreading the stone dust, screeding it, compacting it, etc.  While I think I
need to put the soldiers on both sides so I can do the necessary screeding, the
odds of them being EXACTLY the right distance apart is virtually impossible,
given the nature of the width of the brick (variable) and the reality that this
simply cannot be done with tight tolerances.  So, the question is how to
proceed: 

	o	only put in soldiers on one side, fill with stone dust, compact
		and lay bricks.  Finish up with soldiers on other side, being
		VERY careful not to upset the stone dust bed which will need to
		be shaved down to make roon for deeper brick.  This scares me!

		in this case, I'd need something other than the soldiers to run
		the screed against.

	o	put in soldiers on both sides, fill with stone dust, compact
		and lay bricks.  If the solders were layed too far apart, it
		will be necessary to somehow move them closer!  I have no idea
		how to do this.  If they were a little too close together (I
		think this would be better), it should be relatively easy to
		push them out a little (perhaps 1/2" or less if I'm lucky) and
		simply fill the gaps with more stone dust.

		in this case, the screed would be run across the tops of the
		soldiers.

I think I prefer the putting in both courses of soldiers and spreading them at
the end, but if I'm making some wrong assumptions on how to do this, someone 
please jump up and tell me...

-mark

I think the soldiers are supposed to rest on soil, not on the stone dust.

				Steve

>I think the soldiers are supposed to rest on soil, not on the stone dust.

but there is no soil for them to rest on as the excavation is deeper than the
height of the solder, so it's gotta be on the crushed stone, where is where I'm
currently leaning.  The only problem though is that this puts the soldiers on
crushed stone and the rest of the walk on stone dust.  Wouldn't that create a
potential instability between the soldiers and the rest of the bricks?

-mark

Sounds like the beginning of a military coup.

Mark,

The soldiers main function is to stop movement of the bricks in the 
horizontal direction.  The stone dust/sand/gravel prevent heaving
by frost and allows drainage.  Therefore, if it were me, I would
put the soldiers on the gravel/dust also.  They will be subject
to heaving problems the same as the bricks on the walkway.

						Mark