Conference 7.286::home_work

    	Bugs Bugs everywhere!  How do I get rid of "Earwigs"?  My wife
    unloaded some laundry from a hamper this morning and out came the
    masses of earwigs and off went my wife screaming bloody murder.
    So now there is a "red alert" out for me to get rid of the earwigs
    pronto.  I know they are usually found around moisture and with
    all this humid weather they are bound to come out.  Where are they
    usually found as far as nests or eggs and outside of burning my
    house down what are some tried and true ways to get rid of them?
    Any info is appreciated!
    
    						Thanks
    						Jorge'

    I can understand exactly how you and your wife feel.  You see,
    we had the same problem for the first time in our lives last
    summer.  They were in our apartment and there was not one room
    they had not gotten into.  The living room carpet was infested
    with them.  They were even in my aquarium and if someone left
    a glass out over night, they were in that too.  We had the horrors
    for weeks and weeks.  It's true they like moisture and having
    a very old house, managed to get in from the outside.  We never
    found a nest, but what we ended up doing was buying a bug spray
    and spray around doors, window sills.  Either that did it or
    they left on their own as the season ended.  Probably a little
    of both.  I'm getting goose bumps writing this.  We have since
    moved so haven't had the problem again (except they are in our
    mail box, so I took the bug spray and did some heavy duty spraying).
    Good luck!!

      Just last night I set out three shallow pans of water and cooking
    oil(mix the oil and water as best you can) around the bushes by 
    the house. It attracts and drowns 'em. For each female you drown,
    you reduce the number of eggs layed for next year.
    
    Terry 
      

    It works! Three pans of drowned earwigs.
    
    Terry

    	Well I tried some bug spray and it seemed to work but then they
    all moved upstairs.  I then tried the pans of water and not one
    earwig was in them but they still seem to appear in the same areas.
    Last night was the last straw.  My wife (horrified at any insect
    what-so-ever) found one in the baby's (3 wks old) crib.  She
    immediatelytook the three kids out of the house and I got 6 bug
    bombs and bombed every room, celler and attic.  After i aired the
    house out I found many dead or dying earwigs lying around the house.
    But I still don't feel free of this problem because of my ignorance
    about the little critters.  
    
    	I would like to know more about them and don't have a bug
    encyclopedia around.  Can anyone help me with some info like:
    
    	What kind of insect is an earwig?
    	Where do they come from and what kind of places do they like
    	to live in?
    	Why do places get infested with earwigs?
    	And for you real experts, how long do they live? and are they
    	especially resistant to bug killers?
    	Do they fly? Lay eggs? what do they eat?  What danger do they
    	pose if you get pinched?  
    
    	Please excuse my naivete but I'm reaching panic level.  I'd
    appreciate any info.  Thanks......Jorge'

    Hmm... let's see what I can remember.
    
    Earwigs (I think) do not fly, and are not dangerous.  I don't believe
    those nasty looking pincers on the abdomen are for pinching people.
    I think they are rather fond of woodsy places -- piles of old sticks,
    pine cones, wood piles and the like.  Better than roaches.
    
    		George

    They really don't burrow into the ears of sleeping people and drive
    them insane as was one believed, either.  Ugly looking little SOB's,
    nonetheless.
    
    -joet

    
    Earwigs really like wet wood, but they are not destructive - BUT
    they may be a precursor to an invasion of carpenter ants that
    definitely are destructive. So, find out if there might be a wet
    patch around your sills and take care of it.

    dick

	I'd be more worried about the 6 bug bombs than the earwigs.
	
	--ed/

    Use Diazion (sp?).  It works great on ants, earwigs and other crawling
    bugs.  You can buy it at any garden shop.  It is made by ORTHO.
    BE CAREFUL it is a serious chemical.  I just sprayed my foundation
    and it wiped out all the ants.
    						Ralph
    

    
    	re .4

	From Swan and Papp's "THE COMMON INSECTS OF NORTH AMERICA":
	
	"The earwigs are medium to large insects, usually brownish in 
	color, with short, leathery forewings and longer membraneous
	hindwings which fold straight back under the front pair.  Some
	species are wingless.  The body terminates in a pair of curved,
	pincers-like cerci which can exert a fairly good pinch;  they
	use them in defense, and to grasp attacking ants from their
	bodies.  ...Eggs are laid in a nest in the soil and are brooded
	by the mother.  The nymphs [young] are cared for until ready to
	leave on their own.  ...Feeding habits are exceedingly variable;
	some species are at various times plant feeders, scavengers, and
	predators;  others are largely carniverous.

	"While some species of earwigs are considered pests, it appears 
	that their value as predators may outweigh the harm they do.  
	Much of the objections to these insects stem from their offensive 
	appearance and odor and their habit of showing up in garbage cans
	and occasionally indoors.  Long persisting putrid odors come from
	secretions sprayed at enemies."

	and then some detail about the European Earwig, common in New
	England:

	"...coastal areas mostly. ...Adult: Reddish brown.  Cerci of the
	male curved, those of the female nearly straight.  It can fly
	only by taking off from a high place;  the wings are not strong
	enough to take off from the ground or for sustained flight.
	...Nymph: ...period from hatching to maturity lasts about 68 days.
	Broods average 30.  They hibernate in the egg stage and as adults
	under boards, stones, and cells in the ground.  One or two broods
	[per year].  Food:  Various garden flowers and vegetables, ripe
	fruit, garbage, a variety of insects including fleas.  An 
	introduced parasitic fly contributes substantially to control."

	Joe O.
    

    Has anyone had any experience with getting rid of silverfish?
    
    Here's the situation.  My wife and I bought an 80 year old house
    in July.  There is also an in-law apartment over the garage and
    my mother-in-law will be moving in after some remodeling work is
    completing.  For the time being, however, she is living in the house
    with us and using a guest bedroom.  The guest bedroom was an addition
    to the house by an owner prior to the one from whom we bought
    the house.  My guess is that in this addition, there is insufficient
    ventilation in the wall, because we have a problem with silverfish
    (and only in this room).
    
    The little critters are driving my mother-in-law crazy, and it was
    only recently she made me aware of the problem (she can be really
    quiet...the best kind of mother-in-law to have...apparently she
    didn't want to cause my wife and I to get upset about bugs in the
    "new-to-us" house).  She has been trying to kill the silverfish
    as they appear (one or two each night when she is in her bedroom).
    The other night while trying to kill one, it landed on her arm and
    did she holler!
    
    So, I am going to try spraying around the baseboard as this is the
    only area I can find that they can get in, but does anyone have
    any other advice short of calling a professional exterminator (which
    I will do if this fails)?  I do plan to have the carpenter working
    on the garage do something about the ventilation problem in the
    wall area, but for right now I need to get rid of the silverfish.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Carl Olson
    

     They do like moist areas. I has this problem in a wall that abutted
    an outside chimney. There was a slight problem with the flashing,
    allowing a small amount of water to get into the wall, thus making
    for a silverfish and carpenter-ant playground. Eliminating any moisture
    is the area should go a long way toward getting rid of your silverfish.
    
    				Kenny

    
    	Yeah,
    I agree with the last one. I bought a 60 year old last year and
    the bathroom was a disaster. The water use to fall on the floor
    from the shower and seep into the flooring. Since this was not
    taken care of the bugs started invading. The cellar was 3/4 
    cemented and dirt was exposed. I 1. cemented the rest, and 2.
    totally ripped out the bathroom and did it over. 
    
    		A professinal exterminator was called in AFTER the
    cementing and was a total waste of money. They never got rid of
    the silverfish at all. I go with the moisture, if you notice
    water somewhere , stop it.
    
    						al
    

    And as a last resort, about 240 grains of hard-ball will do the
    trick....
    
    
    (Humour ok.?)
    
    M
    

    You can buy packets of something-or-other that you can put around
    to kill silverfish.  They look kind of like packets of sugar.  My
    parents had a silverfish infestation in their attic (the beasties
    like to chew on books, among other things) and putting a goodly
    number of these packets around seemed to solve the problem.  I think
    my mother got them by mail from someplace, but I assume they could
    be bought in a store...if you can find the right store!
    
    Steve

    
    OK, as I am hearing it they like Moisture, Books, Attics and Garage
    apartments....sorry I can't put all those facts together to help
    me any. I got them on the 2nd floor of a Cape - I'm beginning to
    see them on the first floor too. I suspect they have residence in
    the knee wall where we store all kings of junk and venture out for
    -water? I have dusted the baseboards of all areas I think they would
    go with a pretty potent insecticide ( I don't have Pets ) and it
    has had no effect.
    
    ......Back to the packets thing. I've heard about them too in one
    of those Mail Order catalogs but cant seem to find out which one
    has the merchandise.
    
    Hardly a day goes by that I don't mash 1-2 of them on the ceiling.
    and it makes me mad 'cause they leave a stain and i gotta clean
    off the residue.  I also notice them at night when I get up for
    a drink or something. They're quick little buggers - no pun intended.
    
    				___GM___

Just a few suggestions...

   Could they be 'based' up in your attic (knee wall)?  If you have an older
roof or rotting facia boards that may be the source of water.  If you suspect
this, try using some 'bug bombs' in the attic.  My neighbor reccommended this
to me, he couldn't believe how many dead ants he found up there after bombing.

   Also, what type of insectiside did you use?  DURSBAND and DIAZINON (sp?)
are extremely potent.  They can both be bought in spray bottles.  Try spraying
around the windows and electrical boxes, they may be getting in there.

...Ken

	Despite the snow spring is almost here and I'm going to have to do 
some landscaping.  Along side my back stairs is a slope that I want to 
terrace into 3 or 4 small areas which I will then use for a flower garden. 
I'm planning on using railway ties to hold back the soil.  Is it ok to use the
dark ties or will the presevative that is used (creosote?) leech into the 
soil?  How far should the ties be set into the ground?  Do I need to worry
about the frost line at all?

George

I've done quite a bit with RR ties.  One summer I built a wall out of 30 of
them.  I've never really worried about setting them below ground other than to
keep things level.  I've also never put them against a lawn so can't say about
the creosote.  However, we DID have a long row of them already installed and
the grass never grew within 2-3 feet of them  Never thought about it but maybe
it WAS the creosote causing it.

If you're building a high wall (3 or 4 ties), you should probably anchor them
(more on that if you want).

Finally, as far as connecting them, some people like those 10-12" spikes and 
nail them together from the top.  I've always used 60d nail and toe-nail them
together from the back with a 5 lb hammer.  Works just as well and is probably
a lot easier than drilling holes, etc...

-mark

    George,
    	I would recommend using something other than RR ties with creosote.
    Especially if these are flower beds, you will be working on your
    knees alot, and constantly rubbing against the wood.  The stuff
    is tough on clothes and if you sit on a tie and later sit on your
    new couch it can be tough on your relationships.
    	What is the angle of the slope and how wide do you want the
    beds???  Narrow beds on steep slopes are better because you don't
    have to have one big wall.  It also provides a better presentation
    of the flowers.
    	If the walls are not too high, use RR ties as footings and the
    first few layers, then top it off with pressure treated lumber.
    More expensive but cleaner.
    
    Ric

      I have some creosoted RR ties in the middle of my lawn surrounding
    a tree-well. The grass grows right against it. Maybe this just means
    my timbers were aged a little before they were put in place? 
      Can you still get real creosoted timbers easily?
    
    I built a fairly large (45 timbers) retaining wall in NH, in a place
    where there is quite a bit of frost heaving. The retaining wall has
    been totally unaffected. Just make sure you tie the wall into the
    banking, and step each level back 1/2" to 3/4" to help keep the wall
    tight against the banking.
    
     One note; if you use pressure treated timbers, you will not have
    to worry about THAT stuff leaching out. It is NOT water soluble.
    
    					Kenny

    We have RR ties bordering our driveway.  The lawn butts right
    up to them, so I don't think there is a problem with that.  The
    point that was raised about them being dirty is a good one to keep
    in mind.  My son has ruined more than one pair of pants playing on 
    these things.

    I countersunk them about halfway, and used the 60d nails to tack
    them together.
    
    					Steve

Re: .2

	The stairway is a cement stairway curved to the left.  Each stair is
about 3 ft deep.  There will be one terrace for each stair and they will be 
about 10 inches high - something like this (oh, for a decent graphics 
capability):

		 -----------------------
		|			|
		|	Stairs		|
		|			|
		|			|    R.R Ties
		 -----------------------============================
		  |		      |
		  |		      |
		  |		      |
		   -------------------================================
		 /		     /
		/		    /
	       /		   /
		------------------========================================
	    /			 /
	   /			/
	  /		       /
	  --------------------=============================================

It sounds like pressure treated is the way to go for cleanliness if for nothing
else.  Do pressure treated last as long as creosoted ties?

    My railroad ties are well seasoned and the grass will grow right
    next to them, BUT big leaves such as squash touch the same ties
    and die a black death!  The stuff remains toxic for 50 years. Do
    avoid RR ties around a garden if you possibly can.
    
    RMM
    

      If you get the good ones (they have labels on each), they are
    guaranteed for 30 years. 

    My experience using dipped RR ties is that they rot from the inside
    out, in about three years (those in contact with the soil). I'd
    say away from DIPPED ties if I were you. Use only certified pressure
    treated ties.
    

    Yes!  I have used both types.  Dipped rotted out in 3-5 years from
    the inside out.  The pressure treated are still sound and you don't
    get tar all over you if you touch them.
    

	Creosote is nasty, smelly, toxic stuff!  I'd stay away from it
	myself.  I wouldn't want it around my house.

	Just my opinion, but.....stuff reminds me of railroad yards.

    You can buy real RR ties at RR square in Pepperell Mass, if anyone's
    interested.
    

    of course, you realize, don't you that RR ties for landscaping are
    out this year ? ;})
    
    Dwight

    What's the source of the fashion trivia?
    
    -al

Are the authentic, old RR ties as dirty as recently dipped ones?

    I just moved into a 35 year old home this summer and as the winter
    months approached I noticed something strange. On cold sunny days
    there were quite a few flys buzzing around between my storm windows
    and the inside windows.  This didn't bother me too much until those
    little pests found a way to get into the house.  For the last month
    my wife and I have placed fly swatters in convenient locations so
    we're always prepared.  We call ourselves the "swat team".  We've
    gotten to the point were it's no longer a game and we'd like to
    get rid of these annoying creatures.  We have a 4 month old baby
    so we want to avoid the use of any dangerous insecticides if
    possible.  Has anyone had this problem?  If so, what did you do?
    Where do all those flys come from anyway, I thought they die in
    the winter?  Any thoughts or ideas on this would be greatly
    appreciated.  
                                       Thanks,
    
                                                Dave S.

    We had the same problem this winter.  I just got a can of Raid and
    fired a little between the inner and outer windows, then shut the
    inner window.  Since it is a small space, you don't need much. 
    
    Later I went around with a brush and vacuum and carefully cleaned out
    the 'tween windows space.  That seemed to take care of the mysterious
    appearances.  If they have gotten into the house and you don't want to
    use a house fogging bomb (cover or close away all food, plates, and
    clothing/bedding, plan to disappear for several hours while it works,
    and air the house some when you get back), a few diligent nights of
    brushing and vacuuming all the nooks and crannies where dust
    accumulates, along with serious search and destroy with the swatters
    will work too.
    
    /Dave 

You're lucky.  When we built our house, it was open for a long time, so a large 
number of wasps made their homes in it.  After we moved in, we must have killed 
200 wasps that came out on sunny days that first winter.

I think insects have the ability to go into an almost suspended-animation state
when it's cold and then come back to consciousness when it warms up.  I doubt 
they can do this if they actually freeze, but I'm not sure.  I remember one 
day I was working outside on a cold winter day moving a woodpile, and I found a 
fly.  For some reason (?), I put him in my hand and started to breathe on him.
He was lying on his back, and after a few breaths he started to wiggle his 
legs.  I kept breathing on him, and after a bit he flipped himself over and 
stood up, and started cleaning his wings.  Soon after, he decided to take off, 
which wasn't wise because within about 15 feet he had frozen solid again and 
fallen to the ground.

As to what you can do, you might open up the windows and clean out all the 
'dead' flies from between the window and the storm.  There are probably some 
more hidden in cracks, but you might get a lot of them that way.

Paul

The old ties can be extremely dirty, in places there can be caked up creosote
as much as 1/4" thick.

re: fresh dipped

Are you SURE these are railroad ties?  If so, they must be over $20 apiece!

-mark

    re .14 (or so): source of the fashion trivia...
    
    	My wife read it to me out of (I _think_) House&Garden or a similar
    	magazine...

    We had a similar problem in our new house; we jokingly considered
    leaving before being invited out or the stench hit our clothing.  Our
    problem, though, was the entire unfinished second floor of our Cape.
    Fortunately, the very cold temperatures over the winter seems to
    have 'iced' most, if not all, of the little buggers...

    This phenomenon happens at my home (5 yrs. old) every year. The
    2nd year it was terrible. Once the cool whether begins in Fall
    it seems that the flys hide 'within the track' where the top sash
    slides up and down. There they lay their eggs..I believe...as I
    see very small cocoon type pods which appear to be vacated by ...
    the fly.....larva in this state...?
    
      I figure they get past the storm/screen when there is the occasion
to open the screen and pull down the storm during rain. The only good
    thing about all this mess is that when they (the flies) finally
    become airborn, they fly so slow that you can easily snuff up 95%
    of them w/ the shop vac.
    
    MArk
    

    
    I have the same problem in my 30 year old home. I was told that
    the fly eggs are laid in the wood and the insulation. Each afternoon
    when the sun comes in the west windows and warms up an upstairs
    bedroom, the little pests come out and drive me nuts! I have tried
    vaccuuming them up, swatting them... it works for one day, but the
    next day they are back again. I think that I will have to use "The
    Bomb" when the weather gets warmer.
    
    

	One sunny warm October day (yup we occasionally get a few in 
	Vermont) I came home to my 1 year old house and literally 
	found every g**d**n window in the place covered with flies.
	Must of been 50,000 of them suckers in there.  Out came the
	"bomb".

	Ate dinner in a restaurant that nite...

	-gary

	P.S.  Still have problems with them little b*st**ds.

    Thanks for all the replys.  It's good to know we're not the only
    ones with this problem.  Has anyone ever talked to an exterminator
    about flys?  I'd like to get rid of those flys once and for all,
    no fooling around.  Possibly a minature nuclear bomb would do the
    trick.  
             Dave

    I just finished a landscaping course taught by a landscape architect
    who does all the large projects in the boston area for landscape
    companies. He says railroad ties are out. the preasure treated is
    in. 

>        I just finished a landscaping course taught by a landscape architect
>    who does all the large projects in the boston area for landscape
>    companies. He says railroad ties are out. the preasure treated is
>    in. 

    I know it!  I just had to have all my RR ties replaced with pressure
    treated for the spring.  My neighbors were all starting to move
    out!
    

    Real railroad ties *are* monstrous.  10' lenghts exists,
    but are unusual.  8' or so is more normal.   Real ties usually
    are oak, and are pressure treated with hot creosote.  I've seen
    50 year old railroad ties still in everyday use on mainlines.
    Older ones have 'date nails' in them, indicating the year that
    they were laid.   Nowadays the ties are cut in three pieces when
    removed from the tracks.
    
    				George

    Please inform this real DYI neophyte:
    
    	1) How deep do you bury the bottom most tie?
    	   (I only want about 1 or 2 ties sticking up
    	   out the ground
    	2) Do they just stay in?
    	3) Some pressure treated ties I've seen are
    	   only 4X4?  Are these really useful?
    	   What size should they be?
    
    			Thanks guys,
    
    			Pete
    

    Put on rubber gloves, take the solid bar out of a solid fuel "pest
    strip", crack off a tiny chunk and place it between the storm window
    and the inside window in the fall when you close the storm windows.
    If the windows produce a lot of condensation you may want to put
    the chunk in a small wire hanger thumbtacked to one side. Be sure
    to lock the inside window to keep children away. Try a few different
    sizes then see which size lasts all winter. 
    
    	Rick
    	Merrill
    

    re: .21
     
    1. bury the bottom one about 1/2 way, if your only going to go 1 
    or 2 high. 
    2. If supported well, they'll stay in place.
    3. If talking about 4x4 landscaping timbers, they worp pretty easy.
       If I was using those I'd nail team together, with 6" spikes.
       Get the presure treated wood.
    
    Mark

    RE: 6" spikes
    
    Do you just take a hand sledge and whack 'em in?  Or do you need
    to pre-drill a small pilot hole?
    
    -al

    I have the same problem with the same bugs.  Every year I go thru
    cans of spray and every spring they are back.  According to a pest
    control place, all you can do is keep spraying and hope that someday
    you've hit every last one of them.  They are not too picky about
    where they live.  It all started when a rotten tree fell near the
    house.  I've since found nest under loose clapboards, in the ground,
    and under my porch.  If you decide to go nest hunting, look on the
    south side of your house.  Wherever the sun is, that's where they
    are.  Good luck.
    
    Chris D.

I think you mean "Box Elder" beetles.  They are attracted to the area by 
trees called Box Elders (no surprise.)  I believe the beetles are only 
attracted by one sex of the Box Elder, and if you give your county 
extention agent a call, you can get all the details.  I seem to remember 
reading that if you clear all the Box Elders in the area, then the 
population will dwindle and die out.  I don't know how long it takes.  I 
don't know what a Box Elder tree looks like either.  (But there must be 
some 'way back in the woods, 'cause I sometimes see the beetles but not 
often enought that they're pests.)
					>>>==>PStJTT

    
    
    	I think I'm going to get a siphon can at Spags to attach to
    my hose.  The county extention says that Diazinon is a good contact
    killer for the little basta***.  If I'm going to have to lend my
    attention on a yearly basis, I want a cheaper way to do it.  The
    Box Eldah "elms" are all in my neighbor's yards.  Thanx for all
    the help.  
    
    	Does anyone know if Diazinon will kill my cat???
    
    	rgds_mb
    

>        	Does anyone know if Diazinon will kill my cat???

    It can but you might have to mix it in with his food or he might
    not eat it.

    Diazinon is an excellent pesticide and (of course) spags has an
    excellent price on it. You should use extreme caution with it however
    and follow directions carefully. It can kill small animals that
    eat seeds/grass/flowers etc. that have been sprayed. I always alert
    my neighbors before I spray so they can call in their pets. It can
    also cause a myriad of health problems in people so treat it
    with respect.
    
    Jim...

Re:.3
	You might try talking to your neighbors.  If the trees are in 
their yards, the beetles must be driving them crazy too.  They might 
agree to take down the trees.
					>>>==>PStJTT

I have used both pressure-treated railroad ties and landscape timbers.  The
landscape timbers have rotted out and will need to be replaced this year.  The
rail-road ties are doing fine.  Using a chain saw is probably a good idea.  I
used a circular saw without a face mask.  I felt very ill for a day or two
after cutting the landscape timbers and generating a lot of creosoted smoke.

I am surprised that you can still find creosote landscape timbers anymore.  I
think they have been banned around here for environmental reasons.  Most of the
lumber yards are carrying "Outdoor Wood" type pressure treated landscape
timbers now.  That is what I plan to use to replace my rotted steps.

/Steve

    I don't know about box elder beetles, but a lot of similar pests
    don't like to be around marigolds -- I guess they don't like the
    smell or something. 
    
    It's still too early to plant marigolds, and you may not like them
    anyway, but you can plant them around the house without worrying
    about killing the cat.
    
    --b
    

    What are good places and prices for landscaping timbers and
    R.R. Ties?  I'm in the Littleon area and am looking at a
    Moore's sale flier advertising 6"x6"x8', 40-year warranty
    pressure treated timbers for $10.69.  Is this a decent
    price?
    
    /Dave

    
    
    	Check out Wickes Lumber in Acton on Route 27.  They have a sale
    running until May 2 and in the flyer I saw two sizes of pressure
    treated landscaping timbers.   I think the prices were in the vicinity
    of 3.99 for the narrow ones and 8.69 for the bigger ones that look 
    like RR ties.
    
    Conni       

    Dave, on those 6x6x8'...Grossman's has them at $15.49, pressure
    	treated on sealed. They're CD Grade .40 and I was pleased with
    	them last year, so I grabbed some more on sale this year. The
    	ones you found for approx. might not be of the same caliber.
    
    					Good Luck, gfc
    

    Well, I picked up 30 landscaping timbers at Moore's last week. 
    They are the .40 CCA pressure treated 6x6x8' stuff that all the
    other places are advertising for 12.95 or more.  The sale runs till
    this Saturday, so I may go back for a few more.
    
    /Dave

    The general advice that I hear is to stay away from the
    'railroad ties' (the kind dipped in icky black stuff). The icky
    black stuff is not good for contact with human skin and doesn't
    do a whole lot to protect the wood either, as the ties rot out
    in a couple of years.
    
    Louise

    If it rots in a couple of years, it's not a real railroad tie.
    
    Real railroad ties are pressure-treated with hot creosote
    (icky-black stuff, to be sure), just like power poles.

    They don't rot.  I've seen sixty year old ties in use (on railroads).
    
    I suspect a good deal of what is sold as railroad ties isn't.

    If they are attracted to suger put a little in a jar lid and mix
    boric acid with it and place between windows.
    If they are attracted to light put out the lights at night and leave
    a night light over a bowel of sopy water.
    
    cauck your storm window so they can not get in again.
    
    Also those electronic bug aways work too.

	re -.1:
    
>    Also those electronic bug aways work too.


	What electronic bug aways?  Do you mean the ultrasonic ones that
	they took off the market and were giving refunds to people who
	bought them cause they didn't really work?

    I had a simular problem with earwigs in calif and I finally put
    Boric acid powder around the base of the house.  I had to renew
    it every two weeks for a while then once a month then only once
    a year.

    re .10  Try those electronic bug fryers with the electric blue light

    a little late...maybe 
    
    there are about 4 types of timbers used for landscaping
    
    1. Dipped (dark black stuff..is NOT creosote) 4X4 or 6X6
       No Good..rots out in a couple of years
    
    2. Dipped (pale green like a cuprinol color)  no good either
    
    3. Pressure treated (green color will fade in time but is fully
       impregnated with a copper sulfite chemical)
    
    4. Old RR ties usually well aged impregnated to the core with
       creosote all ties are very hard wood species not just oak.
       they'll hav holes and plate marks where the rails were.
    
       RR ties are the only way to go. and if your gonna use them
       for a retaining wall you better put in some deadheads to keep
       them from leaning and/or collapsing
    
       FYI ya can't get creosote any more for consumer use and any
       substitute is junk.
    
    				___GM___

	What about used telephone poles?
	Are these equivalent to round RR ties?

re:< Note 880.28 by CNTROL::COTE "Dave (Peck) Cote" >
   
>	What about used telephone poles?
>	Are these equivalent to round RR ties?

    Dave,

    	I don't know about used phone poles for ladnscaping, but if you 
want to have the round post look for your landscaping, then phone poles 
will last and last. They are as heavily treated as any piece of wood  ican 
think of.

    As far as equivelent to round RR ties.....THEY aint no such beast....
Railroad ties are square, usually 8" x 8" X 8' and very heavy, 200 
pounds each. The crap they sell as rounded edge landscaping timbers are no 
closer to being RR ties than the railroad car they arrived on.....if anyone 
says they are just as good or just like RR ties, they are full of boloney.

    real RR ties will, unless new, have definate marks on one side where 
the tie plates rested to hold the rails. Also spike holes about 3/4" 
diameter, probably 2 or more per tie plate. Real ties are out of our price 
range. I think they cost the RR about $22-$25 in bulk. Real RR ties also 
are FULLY impregnated with creosote, not just pressure treated or dipped.
You can smell the creosote for quite a distance, evne years after they are 
treated. That is probably the best reason for not using them around your 
house, the smell lingers forever!

    Vic H

    The creosote also is a bitch to get out of clothing when the kids
    decide to use the pole as a seat. As a matter fo fact, it doesn't
    come out, just fades. Plus, exposure to crosote is skin irritating.
    
    Worked on a survey crew once where they were pile-driving. The piles
    looked like telephone poles. Everybody who worked close to the
    machinery always wore hats, long sleves, and a scarf for the neck.
    If you got sprayed for any length of time you felt it that night
    or the next day.
     

    I have a bug problem that just started yesterday.
    
    When I arrived home from work, the second floor bathroom was teeming
    with very young (not flying yet, just sort of wandering around)
    winged what-looked-like very large ants.  Are these carpenters?
     I've read through notes on carpenter ants, but can't tell if that's
    what I have.  They have the three-piece ant body, but the tail-end
    is much more tapered than round.  The wings are nearly transparent,
    and as long as the body.
    
    They were mostly playing on the windowsill (the window was open,
    so they set up little gatherings in some of the other rooms on that
    floor.)  However, the window is sealed tight with storms, and I
    can't imagine how they'd get in from outside.  I'm inclined to believe
    there might be a nest in the attic crawl space over that bathroom.
    
    However, my puppy has been doing quite a bit of digging under some
    evergreens just outside that window; a previous note on carpenter
    ants mentioned that the queen burrows into the ground to lay eggs.
    
    I guess I just need some advice, or at least some help identifying
    what these revolting little things are, where they likely live,
    and how to get rid of them.  (Also, why they selected *my* bathroom
    - my husband's is on the third floor, and has no problems [yet];
    why me?  Is this some odd punishment for a past transgression?)
    
    Thanks to anyone who can offer advice
    
    Karen Troy

    Do they have stripes on the rear portion?   The Carpenter ants in
    my house had gray and black stripes.  I think the best advice is
    to have an exterminator look at them.  I had ants in the sill of
    my house and had to jack up the entire house to repair the damage.
    These are not bugs you want to fool around with!
    
    The cost to have my house exterminated was $60 (3 bdrm colonial).

    Thanks for the quick response.  These guys do not have stripes on
    the rear portion.  They are solid ant-color, and the rear portion
    is quite pointy (so much so that at first I thought they might be
    wasps or hornets or something else that would sting me...now I'm
    not so sure.  Oh, and I forgot to mention that they are about one
    inch long.
    
    Karen

    Could be termites or carpenters.  As previous reply recommended...get
    some to an exterminator....fast.  I would recommend taking them
    to at least two exterminators so that you have a second opinion
    and a second price.

    We had carpenter ants last month. They did not have wings. I think
    termites have wings, however. We paid $175.00 to an exterminator;
    haven't seen an ant since. Good luck.
    
    Mike

Carpenter ants grow wings when it's time for excess ants to go find a 
new home, so it still could be them.  This is about the time of year 
they make that kind of decision, too. But they're not especially pointy 
on the end (at least not to my way of thinking) so it's still not 
certain.  Take a bottle of bugs to your local exterminator and ask. 

					>>>==>PStJTT

      There's a lot on this in note 69 "Black ants in winter".  It didn't
    start off as a discussion of carpenter ants but eventually evolved
    into that.  In my case, I did have carpenter ants and was told that
    the 'one inch long' ones were the egg laying ones.  I'm sure that's
    just what you didn't want to hear but if you DO have carpenter ants
    and they ARE that big, you'll want to do something about it quick.
    I won't recommend that you look for the nest unless you are REALLY
    prepared to attack it when you find it. There were billions and
    billions, maybe even hundreds of them above the door jamb at my
    house.  I was told by the exterminator that carpenter ants don't
    necessarily have a nest next to moisture but that they just need
    a source of moisture that they can bring back with them to their
    nest.  The only way I know of telling whether or not you have carpenter
    ants is to look at the mandibles(jaws). If they are pronounced,
    i.e. you can see the 'hooks', you got 'em.  If that doesn't work,
    look to see what kind of power tools they carry around. :^)

    -Jim

    	I had the house I just bought exterminated. Termite damage had
    been found in the garage face but nowhere else. After paying $700
    for a complete de-Bugging I felt pretty confident that I would 
    not see anything for at least a year. Wrong. About two weeks after
    the treatment, roughly 250,000-500,000 winged creatures began to
    exit the ground in a 1" space across the front of the garage. 
    	I called the exterminator and he said that was normal because
    it takes time for the chemicals to roust them if they're deep in
    the ground. Shallow dwellers die. I sprayed the area with "SEVIN"
    and used a shovel to remove the bodies.
    
    They were exactly what you described------Termites.
    
    Get to an exterminator fast to verify. 
    
    BTW.........We're in the midst of a terrible dry stretch and TERMITES
    and CARPENTER ANTS need moisture to survive. We all should be checking
    around our foundations for Termite Trump Towers coming up next to
    the concrete. Take some time to spray your foundation this weekend
    (in the evening) with Malithion or Sevin and sprinkle Diazanon around
    the structure too. There'll be no relief before Tuesday at the earliest
    and the bugs are becoming water starved. (I'm Vaccing my pool daily
    to rid the bottom of all of the suicides)
    
    Ken

Termites Vs Ants

Although either may have wings the two are easily distinguished.

The ants are distinctivly ants - very pronounced three piece body, each 
piece approximately equal in size: Head (big mandibles), middle, and 
tail. For what it's worth, I've never seen a termite as large as some 
of the carpenter ants running around.

Termites - bodies are much more elongated than that of an ant. Also, 
termites tend not to wander around in the open; you usually have 
to dig for them (unless it's those mound builders in Africa) in the 
ground or in wood. Carpenter ants aren't that shy, until you try to 
stomp one and miss, in which case they can move very quickly.

chuck

    I believe a good way to distinguish them is the waist: ants have a 
    very narrow waist (like a wasp), while termites have a more 
    pronounced waist.
    
    However, since I haven't had termite problems, I can't say this from 
    direct experience. (Not that it's stopping me...)

    
    Thanks to all for responding so quickly, and for insisting that
    I act quickly!
    
    I called an exterminator; from my phone description of the little
    darlings, he determined that they are indeed carpenter ants.  He
    also said this is my *second* infestation (something about their
    being on the second floor and having wings).  I do have what I assumed
    to be plain old regular black ants in the kitchen, which he said
    are likely my first infestation :-( .  
    
    Anyway, he's coming tomorrow morning to blast the place.  I just
    hope I don't have to shovel corpses like some of you have - bleck!
    
    Again, thanks for all the help!
    
    Karen

    I appreciate the details concerning carpenter ants, termites, other
    ants, and the subtle differences.
    
    But does it really matter?  Don't you want to get them exterminated
    ASAP regardless of what they are?  I suppose that if they flew in
    one day, and out the next, you wouldn't care, but these seem to
    have been around for several days now.
    
       Gary

    it matters when you write the check - i believe carpenter ant removal
    is $100 - $200, while termite removal is $700 - $800.
    
    when i bought my house the bank forced me to have a carpenter ant
    treatment because there were signs of old damage.  i watched the
    guy, and the treatment wasn't too involved.  it involved spraying
    the foundation, around the eaves, etc, and saturating the damaged
    area.  he told me i could do it myself with diaznon spray.
    
    last year we discovered my grandmothers garage was infested, so
    i treated it myself with the diaznon.  we got piles of ants, and
    there are no more signs of them.
    
    i wouldn't hesitate to do it myself. i'll be a lot more thorough
    on my house than someone else will.
    
    also, i know of people that have had exterminators come to remove
    carpenter ants only to have the ants come back a few weeks later.
    some exterminators will allow you to pay half the bill up front,
    the other half in a month or so when you know they've been successful.
    a good incentive to get the exterminator to come back if he has
    to.
    
    good luck,
    
    bs

	Diazanon works well on carpenter ants!
    
    	An exterminator told me to look for the dead ants the day after
    a spraying (they die in one or two piles, very strange), and spray
    the piles.
    
    	Carpenter ants carry their dead away and re-spraying the dead
    ones will help spread the pesticide.
    
    -mike z

    I came home from a trip about two weeks ago and found about 1/2
    gallon of saw dust on the foundation and a stream of ants carrying
    more out of the sill.  Fortunately, my next door neighbor is an
    exterminator and proved most helpful.  The best part was the cost,
    $0.  Here's a few things I learned in this experience that I didn't
    see in the prior notes.
    
    1.	He used a gas made from some type of flower to kill the ants
    near the hole.  I lasts for only a couple of hours, but appears
    to have done the trick.
    
    2.	He said that the nest may be within a couple of feet of the
    saw dust and I should use a stethascope (sp?) to listen for the
    ants.  I did it late at night when all was quiet and didn't hear
    any munching, which he said sounds like playing with aluminum foil.
    This was good news, but periodic listening is still recommended.
    
    3.	He identified carpenter ants by the little 'hairs' on the back
    of the head.  This is a description I didn't see earlier.
    
    4.	As for termites, he advocates placing wooden stakes all aroundthe
    foundation at not more than 10 foot intervals.  These should be
    checked every six months and rotton ones replaced.  After ten years
    of his advise, I quickly ended two infestations caused by the builders
    burying wood near the house.  The next time I find a stake eaten,
    I walk next door and get help.
    
    I hope this is helpful.  Your inputs, although a little different,
    were for me.
    			doug
    

    	Some free advice:  (well not really, I just can't think of
    	a way to collect a fee for it  :-) )
    
    	I have those continuous soffit vents for the attic, along with
    	a continuous ridge vent.  The soffit vent has multiple elongated
    	holes along the length to let the air in, and unfortunately,
    	ant, bees, and other crawly things.  The holes are apparently
    	big enough for the critters to crawl through, so I had to go
    	along the entire length of the house on both sides, and install
    	screening to keep them out.
    
    	During construction of the house, I never even gave the vents
    	a second thought, about whether bugs would be able to get in
    	or not.  It would have been much easier then, to add the screen-
    	ing.  I guess I have to accept the blame though, for assuming
    	that the manufacturer would have taken this into account.
    
    	So, those of you who intend to use the continuous soffit vent
    	would be well rewarded to add the screening before installation.

    I have the same problem and attacked it the same way with screening
    on the soffets. I have not figured a way to seal the ridge vent
    yet without taking it off and putting screening underneath it and
    possibly destroying the vent.
    What did you do about the ridge vent ? I have mega-bees,flies,moths,
    etc in my 2nd floor (unfinished).
    
    
    Thanks
    Chris

Someone must have had you guys in mind, because when I bought continuous 
soffit vents and ridge vents last year, they had aluminum screening 
built-in.  I thought it was pretty clever...it must have come from the 
experience of many consumers.
					>>>==>PStJTT

    
    	RE: .2
    		Figures.  I hate being the guinea pig.
    
    	RE: .1
    		I was hoping they wouldn't be able to get through my
    		ridge vent, since the holes are smaller than the ones
    		in the soffit vent.  Some ridge vents though, do have
    		rather large holes.  If you can get to the attic, you
    		could tack screening to the peak from the inside, in-
    		between rafters, or do as I plan to do since part of
    		my house has cathedral ceilings, tuck the screening
    		under and over the ridge vent between the vent and
    		shingles.

    	I found 2 rather large (.5" body length - w/o legs) spiders in
    my house this weekend.
    
    	They are black with gold markings on the abdomen and cephalo-
    thorax. They appear to have 2 'teeth'. The body is not bulbous.
    Looking through a book on insects, I couldn't turn up a positive
    ID for these spiders (but the body shape is close to 'labyrinth'
    spiders).
    
    	Does anyone know if these are something I should be taking
    care of?  Are they just another variety garden spider? And
    lastly, how about recommending a good insect reference book?
    
    -mike z

    I think you're talking about "golden garden spiders".  There may 
    be a more official name for them, but that's what I've heard them 
    called.  Basically harmless (as much as any spider is).  

      For what it's worth, I believe that the only 'true' poisonous
    spiders in this country are the 'Black Widow' and the 'Brown Recluse'.
    I'm pretty sure that the Brown Recluse only lives in the south (much
    warmer climates).  Of course, if you have severe allergic reactions
    to spider bites, all bets are off.
    
    -Jim

    My house has a stone a stone wall as one face. There are 4 windows
    in  that wall, each of which has what looks like a railroad tie as
    the  lintel  above  it.  These  look  as if they were treated with
    creosote,  and  have areas that need to be be retreated. The house
    inspector told me to just paint some creosote on them, but all the
    hardware  stores  I've  asked  (in  MA)  tell  me that creosote is
    illegal.   One   guy   suggested  using  Cabot's  stain  (Cuprinol
    explicitly says not to use it over creosote.)

    Is Cabot's  really  different  from Cuprinol? If not, any ideas on
    what to use? 

--David

    If this is somewhere mod's please relocate.  I could not find it
    with key words...
    
    a friend of mine (yea, we heard that one before) has a small problem
    with roaches and ants.  He has had a fumagator (sp) come in and
    they are still there.  He has "bombed" twice and they still proceed
    to exist....   What should he do???
    
    He bought the house with little or no down and cannot afford to
    leave, plus he doesnt like the idea of rescrewing someone else...
    
    He would like to solve this but is at his wits end...  with two
    exterminations and two bombings what else is there???
    
    OH, One more point.  I told him that the problem is probably steming
    from the graveyard in the back of his house... heard that from
    someone....can someone confirm or disprove this?  
    
    I know that there has to be a solution in here somewhere.... so
    lets hear em...
    
                                thanks a lot.  AL

See note 1111.62 for a directory of all notes with the keyword "PESTS".  There 
are several on what to do about ants.  No roach notes, though (surprise!).

I changed the title of this note to reflect what seemed to be the unique 
feature of your question.

Paul

re .0

what is the exterminator's excuse for his service not doing the job for you?

    It apeared to work for about two months or so....
    
    Chuck told me that the Exterminator let go on the WHOLE place (his
    words not mine)  And yet they still pear...  
    
    Your question.... That is what the Ext. said.  The graveyard os
    causing it.  Chuck went around to the other neighbors and asked
    them if they had any problems with ants or roaches and one said
    yes and the others (not sdure of number) said that they had the
    usual amount of ants (mostly carpenter) but no roaches.  A couple
    said that they have had nothing to date... 
    
    I might add that this place is over 150 years old and is within
    spitting distance of the graveyard.   He has about had it.  Dont
    blame him, I'd have moved out long ago.  YECK!  Hate bugs!

Re: .3    
>    Your question.... That is what the Exterminator said:  "The graveyard 
>    is causing it.  "

I'm pretty dubious about this excuse/explanation.  Sydney is the roach capital
of the world (you thought it was crocodiles 'eh?) - even the emblem of New
South Wales is a cockroach; the state football team are called the COCKIES, and
you can guess what that's short for...   Seriously, the exterminators round 
here usually hit the place and then it's free for 12 months or so, even though
the cockies are roaming around outside.  Sounds like a bum exterminator to me.

Just as a bye-the-bye, what sort of cockroaches are they ?  If they are the
big buggers (African cockroaches) they will wander hither and yon in search of
food.  Hence I would expect those to also infest the neighbours houses.  If 
they are the little ones, then they don't go far, hence they are localised to
the house, hence if the exterminator can't zap them then he is NO DAMN GOOD.

FWIW  Todays trivia:  I am told that the two sorts of roaches smell different 
when you squash them. I've never investigated this.  Anyone want to try ?

Henry Gillard - TSC Sydney

    
        I hope this will work. This is a "trick" that I learned while I
    was working in "ROACH HAVEN", rental property. It works well and
    for quite some time as long as you use proper maintenance procedures.
    
        Believe it or not, you must vacate the building for approx.
    1 week during the winter. Get some  good industrial strength bombs 
    from any pest control business, open all closets i.e. kitchen,bathroom,
    bedrooms, ANY AND ALL CLOSETS or spaces. Drain all water from the
    entire building ((toilets are most difficult, the tank is most
    important, bowl water will expand ). Shut the water off at the meter
    from the street. Drain the Tank if artesian. BOMB the house,sealed
    tightly overnight. In the morning,open all windows and FREEZE the
    house for at least 24 hours. This will kill the buggers that have
    been driven deep into the woodwork by the bombing. 
    
        So far you have used two days. Go back in, close the windows
    and begin to bring the house back up. Allow the water back in slowly
    Make sure all valves are open, The toilet may require hot water
    or alcohol, (which can be added prior to freezing). After the house
    gets up to around 70 degrees, late afternoon, BOMB again, but this
    time use an agent with residual action. DO NOT REOPEN THE HOUSE
    FOR AT LEAST 12 HOURS. This will nail any hearty souls that lived
    through the previous actions and make them walking time bombs for
    any of the unborn. 
         The next step is to go in and do a "STEM TO STERN" cleanup.
    Wipe down walls,ceilings,scrub floors,shampoo carpets, shampoo
    furniture.
    
         For the maintenance part, spray with "ORTHO" roach spray every
    6 months. Spray foundation inside and out paying careful attention
    to the sill, spray underneath accessible areas that are dark and
    cool. Spray behind dark areas espescially in the kitchens and bathrooms
    
         The preceeding method is very drastic but works excellent in
    areas of heavy infestation. It will most likely be very difficult
    to perform the steps listed above in an occupied dwelling, but is
    not impossible. If your sewerage system is the cause of your infes-
    tation, the maintenance steps listed at six months will have to
    increase to about every other month.
    
          GOOD LUCK and GOOD BUG HUNTING      \ /
                                              o o
                                               ^
                                              ---
    
    
    
    

.5:  And you do this yearly?  Yikes!

.0:  If you believe that the roaches are re-entering the house from 
outside after being bombed, then consider some passive defense.

I used to live in an apartment that was right next door to the floor
garbage room - 'nuff said.  Spraying helped practically not at all.
We sealed around all the electircal outlets, vents and baseboards,
and then put down boric acid (sold as Roach Proof) for good measure.
It worked - we never saw another roach inside our apartment.

We just bought a 62 year old house that had an ant invasion whenever
we'd so much as leave a little honey on the outside of the honey jar.
I've been gradually working my way around the windows, baseboards and 
other cracks, sealing them up with caulk.  After just a little bit of
this, we've stopped having invasions.  We do still get isolated ants
wandering about, so I'll keep at it.  

Sealing up every crack in the house is a big job, but you can do it a
little at a time.  Also, you can live in the house as you do it and it
helps with your energy efficiency, too.

Incidentally, you can't starve out roaches.  They can even eat the glue
off the back of your postage stamps.  But roaches need water.  The boric
acid works by scraping off their waxy coating so that they dehydrate.

Now if only I could be sure that none of those ants are carpenters
who are living in my walls...

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    Can this boric Acid be used INSIDE the house or just outside...
    
    .5:
      I tell chuck that and he'll tell me to go to hell....:-)
                               
    

<    Can this boric Acid be used INSIDE the house or just outside...
 	
	Boric Acid comes in powder form.  Insecticide Boric Acid has been 
	died blue so it will not be mistaken for powder sugar.  For roaches it 
	is normally applied dry and for ants it is mixed with syrup to attract 
	them and stick better.  Boric Acid kills by ingestion, not contact 
	so bugs will carry it back to the nest to spread to others.       

	Boric Acid is normally used indoors, not outdoors, because it 
	dilutes and breaksdown quickly in water.  Boric Acid is highly 
	poisonous to people and animals, so care must be used in applying it.
	It should only be applied where kids and pets can not get at it,
	typically behind the refrigerator, stove, baseboards and kick plates.  

	On the otherhand boric acid is safer then bombs or sprays.  Most manmade
	insectcides are more toxic then boric acid, kill on contact, create
	airborne particals to injest, and breakdown into complex organic 
	compounds.  Roaches also develop a physiological and intellectual 
	immunity to most insecticides.  Roaches do not develop an immunity to 
	Boric Acid.  

	If your exterminator went around the kitchen with an accordian  puffer 
	bottle, he probably applied boric acid.  If he did not, you may want to
	consider another exterminator.  Boric acid lasts about 1 year.  In
	New England an application on Labor Day and another on Memorial Day
	usually works.  Boric Acid losses it effectiveness in humid weather, so 
	this summer required an extra dose.  FYI, Towne Paint in Marlboro has 
	big bottles of boric acid for a cheap price.
	

    
      I use keyword pests and could not find anything about cockroaches.
    
      Is there anybody out there who could help me eliminate this seem
    to be an eternal problem .Cockroach, Yes How can I eliminate them
    aside from burning the whole house.

    Call an exterminator and have them professionally executed.

      An idea that my mother got from a friend when we lived in South Carolina
    was to mix Borateem (sp?) and sugar.  The cockroaches either couldn't
    distinguish between the two or didn't care.  It worked incredibly
    well.  I don't know what's in Borateem but I believe it is just
    a household cleaner.  Just lay the stuff out anywhere you suspect
    their trails are.  When you mix the two, you won't be able to
    distinguish the two by looks as Borateem is white also, so I don't 
    suggest you use this if you have small children in the house.  That
    pile of 'sugar' may look too tempting.  After a day or two, you will
    find all the roaches...dead.  Just vacuum them up. 

    -Jim
    

    Borateem is Sodium Borate.  The most common roach killer is Boric
    Acid, which is related.  Boric Acid is also MUCH cheaper and more
    potent.
    
    				Steve

    I spent a summer in the florida keys the roaches there were huge.
    My friend that I was staying with had  accounts with the best
    exterminators in the area there were so many and he still couldent
    get rid of them all so...
    He decided to make the best of it.
    Went to a local departmant store bought a BB gun and took up
    target practice. He would sprinkle a bit of sugar around on his
    porch to chum them in and would shoot them with the BB gun as they
    ate. Every time we hit one my friend would let out a fiendish laugh
    and say Great sport. I still laugh when I think about it today.
    
    -j
    

    
    
    THOSE WERE PALMETTO BUGS. Florida wouldn't dare have a roach problem.
    How could they with all the rich yankees moving down there for the
    winter. 8*)

    re-.1
    
    Call 'em what you like they's still roaches 8^)
    
    -j
    

    I've used a product called "Combat!" and it worked where boric acid
    (with and without sugar) had failed.
    
    	Marty Sasaki

    Has anybody else ever had a problem with fruit flies?  Our problem
    seemed to start when a banana was left out to long.  But that's
    happened before, we'd get rid of the banana and the flies would
    disappear, but this time for some reason, they seem to enjoy my
    house and they're calling all their little friends to join them.
    We have tried spraying them with Raid but that doesn't seem to have
    any effect on them.  We have hung flypaper and that has helped some
    what.  I'm going crazy trying to figure out what is attracting them. I
    have scrubbed down the kitchen, including the walls and make sure
    nothing is left out and the trash is taken out everyday. Not only do they 
    enjoy my kitchen, they seem to love the bathroom. Could it be the moisture?  
    Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
                                                     
    Thanks in advance,
    Roberta and family
    
                                                    
    

    I vacuum them up with the vacuum cleaner hose; they're not too
    difficult to catch when they're on a window, they just buzz around
    the glass and you can corner them without too much trouble.  Saves
    washing fly guts off the woodwork from swatting them, and avoids
    poisons.  Seems like I have to do it just about every warm day at
    this time of year though.

    My mother said it's a great application for a dustbuster, especially
    on expensive, dry-clean-only drapes.
    
    Elaine

    We had a few in our house last summer.  We just killed them as we
    saw them.  Unfortunately, my wife got pinched by one while she was
    attempting to kill one.  As a result, if even one appears in our
    house this next year, I will be in "deep yogurt".
    
    I don't want to use insecticides inside the house, and want to know
    how to kill them before they enter the house.  I am planning on
    spraying Diazinon or some similar insecticide around the foundation
    in the spring.  I also thought I would begin using a fertilizer
    with bug killer in it.  Any other suggestions on my intended plan
    of attack?
    
    Randy

    we had that problem in southern california with the earwigs and
    finally dug a 2 x 2 inch ring around the house and put ditamous
    earth in it.  this stuff can be found at any pool supply house.

    There is a product called ROACH-PRUF.  It looks like baking powder.
    Comes in a quart cardboard container much like oatmeal.  I believe
    it has a yellow and black label.  You leave a trail of the stuff
    along the walls between your unit and your neighbors.  The roaches
    will not cross the line.  Now that they are out of your unit, they
    will try to come back but will be retarded by the line of powder.
    
    I believe Paul Harvey advertises the stuff.

    How do you exterminate a building ?????

>    How do you exterminate a building ?????

See note 2088

	Re: .9 (Bruce Ramsy)

>    There is a product called ROACH-PRUF.  It looks like baking powder.
>    Comes in a quart cardboard container much like oatmeal.  I believe
>    it has a yellow and black label.  You leave a trail of the stuff
>    along the walls between your unit and your neighbors.  The roaches
>    will not cross the line.  Now that they are out of your unit, they
>    will try to come back but will be retarded by the line of powder.

>    I believe Paul Harvey advertises the stuff.


	I have heard of ROACH-PRUF, and it's supposed to work very well.
	However, I have never seen it advertised or for sale anywhere.

	Does anyone know where/how (mail order?) I could get some of 
	this stuff?  Is it still on the market?


	>>Andy<<

	I believe I saw it yesterday in Builder's Square in Nashua.  You might
want to call them to confirm it.

								-craig

    I didn't see a note where this might fit in, so here is my problem.
     My house has picked up fleas from an old couch which came out of
    a barn.  Now, the doctor says I have to get rid of them to get rid
    of the infections on my girlfriend.  So, I am going to have to "bomb"
    the house.  I have no idea what precautions to take, where to buy
    the stuff, etc.
    
    I have a cat, dog, bird, and fish.  The house is carpeted with cruddy
    old carpeting that I don't want to rip up just yet.  Do I have to
    open the cabinets in the kitchen?  What do I do about the fish?
     I was planning on draping a plastic over the tank, but do I have
    to somehow seal it on the bottom, so the bomb will hit the carpet
    under the tank, but not get in the water?
    
    Any help would be appreciated.
    
    Ed..
    

    Remove the cat, dog, bird, fish, yourselves, and anything made of
    plastic - TV, stereo, casual furniture - before bombing the place.
    
    To avoid this, you might try a premises spray first, and then bomb
    only if this does not solve the problem.  Also, you'll have to do
    it twice, about two weeks apart, to get all the generations of fleas.
    
    This advice comes from our veterinarian.  For us, the spray worked.
    
    pbm
    

    Are you saying that I can't somehow just cover the fish tank with
    plastic (say wrap it under and tape with ducttape)?  Also, what
    happens to plastic that it would have to be removed?
    
    We have to bomb the place because the fleas are in the furniture,
    etc.  I believe the doctor even said they have probably gotten into
    the mattress in the bedroom.  So, I don't see any way around this
    terrible job.
    
    Where do I find these things?
    
    Are there other cautions?  Like when we return?  We planned on doing
    it while we were at work.  Start it up in the morning when we leave
    and it would be done when we get home.  How do we clean up afterward?
    Does all of the furniture (tables, etc.) have to be wiped down?
     What about clothing?  Does it all have to be washed?
    
    Also, do the drawers and cabinets have to be open?  If so, I assume
    the dishes would have to be washed afterward?
    
    Ed..
    

Has anyone had a problem with a grasshoppers in the house?
Over the last couple of weeks I've removed 30 or so of them.

They seemed to be isolated to the living-dining room areas of
my house (upper floor of split level) which is located next to
a grove of pines.

There could be a nest but I believe that they
enter when the windows are open. When the windows have been
closed there don't seem to be any grasshoppers I've
visually inspected the windows and screens and couldn't see any
obvious problems. And of course, they are sneaky. They enter when
I'm not looking!


Questions:

Why are they entering?

Do they pose a health hazard?

How to stop them!



thanks for any information!


dave

    Answers:
    	(1) Grasshoppers are among the most curious of insects, and
    are likely just looking for a wheat field;
    	(2) They only pose a health hazard if two of them simultaneously
    invade your nostrils while you sleep;
    	(3) Get an iguana.
    

    Well with the weather here in Mass. this week being warm, we have
    been swamped with flying something or other. They come out in the
    afternoon and just walk around the living room and kitchen floor.
    We have been vacuuming them up and about an hour later when it
    gets cooler they are gone. We see these flying things outside on
    top of the pool water by the hundreds in Sept. I really don't think
    or hope, they are the same thing being discussed here. Any other
    idea's on what they could be, they sound just like what has been
    written, but don't think carpenter ants would be on the water. Seems
    like the sudden change of temperature brought them out. Have two
    more days of this weather to go. HELP.

    
    
    Now that creosote is banned what can you use to kill gypsy moth eggs?
    Would kerosene work?  
    
    Thanks for the help.

    I thought that gypsy moths were no longer going to be a problem
    because of the virus or fungus that was introduced that has spread
    like a plague throughout the gypsy moth population.  Anyway,
    I never used creosote, I just scraped them off into a can of
    paint thinner.  But it was pretty useless because you could never 
    find all the egg masses.  The biological spray stuff was extremely 
    effective on the caterpillars.
    						- Vick

    re.1 The virus killed off the huge population that was around
    a couple years back, however a replacement population has found it's
    way back here. 
    
    	Dave

    The virus, like any plague, needs a population density in order to
    spread.  So when there was a large enough population per square mile
    the virus could spread and kill.  After it spread and killed there was
    no longer a sufficient density for the virus to multiply so it exists
    in very small numbers waiting for the population to again multiply.
    
    Meanwhile, our oaks barely recover before the next onslaught of gypsy
    moths.
    
    ed

What .1 refers to is a "newly" discovered fungus that seems to have 
made major inroads into the gypsy moth population.
I say "newly" because the fungus actually dates back to gypsy moth 
control efforts that took place around 1910.  At that time, researchers
tried to import a Japanese(?) fungus known to kill gypsy moths.
Their work failed, ironically, because the population density
of the moths was too low and the fungus wasn't widely enough distributed
(geographically) to build to critical control levels.  This almost-forgotten
work has now come to light since traces of the fungus have been found
in most of the Northeast, finally far from where the first work was done.
The comments I've read in the press (Boston Globe SciTech, Discover magazine,
and Science News magazine) do seem to indicate that this might be a permanent
and stable control for gypsy moth populations.

The fungus is, of course, different from the naturally occuring virus 
that normally wipes out the population when it reaches critical levels, 
and the bacterial spray (sold as BT) used as an applied control.

- tom]

    Check PICA::GARDEN for lots of info on Gypsy Moths and BT.
    

    
    
       Having a background in entomology the only thing that I can
    say about the war between man and insect pests is that there are no
    permanent controls or cures, the best we can hope for are 
    effective controls for a particular generation.
    
       Insect species breed so quickly and have such short life-cycles
    as compared with larger creatures that a good control for one
    generation would be a minor annoyance to subsequent generations
    which have adapted genetically to resist particular controls, the
    same can be said of many other living organisms, some take longer
    than others.
    
       What has been found as indicated in previous replies is the fact
    that a control (say 50 years ago that became ineffective) may now
    be once again effective because the organism has genetically altered
    to fight off new controls leaving no protection against controls
    previously used against forebearor's.
    
       A somewhat good parallel would be crop rotation when farmers
    use tracts of land alternately between production and fallow to
    prevent draining the soil of good nutrients or allowing pests to
    establish themselves effectively due to the changing rotation.
    
      Sorry, for the lecture, but we must avoid the headset of
    "this is a permanent cure" otherwise one day we're going to get
    whacked from behind because we've sat back nice and comfortable
    for a few years while changes were occuring.
    
                                 Mark.
                                                

    re:0 You might try dormant oil on the egg masses. Most good gardening
    centers should have this.
    
      Re:-1 The fungus cures are naturally occurring methods of battling
    the gypsy moths. Unlike 20 years ago when they sprayed DDT and
    knowingly killed birds as well as beneficial insects the natural
    controls help preserve the predadtory populations.
    
    

    I couldn't find any topics fitting to this, so here goes;
    
    This morning I walked into the kids playroom and heard a distinctive
    *crunch* under my foot.  I looked to see what toy I had just squooshed,
    and to my surprise, there was nothing under my foot.  So, I stepped
    there again, and heard the rest of this disgusting *crunch*.  OBVIOUSLY
    something UNDER the carpet.  
    
    Based on the fact that it was under carpet (and probably padding), and
    I was barefoot and stepped rather lightly, I'd have to believe that it
    was a rather 'fragile' bug (not like a cockroach).  Also, since it was
    near the doorway, it has not been there for long (it would've been
    squooshed long ago!).  And it must have been a decent size.  Without 
    having the courage to look, I'd have to guess something like a June bug.
    
    So my question is .... how could such a big crunchy bug have made it at
    least 20 feet from the nearest outside door, and MORE IMPORTANTLY -
    anyone want to take a guess about what has taken residence there?? 
    It's a good 5 feet from the nearest seam in the carpet, and I really
    would rather not lift the carpet if I don't have to - but things going
    crunch underfoot give me chills.  
    
    It's probably worth noting that with 2 small boys in the house, food
    and the like is not always where it should be, so whatever it is
    probably has a great supply of cookie crumbs and hidden crackers etc.
    
    Suggestions?  Ideas?  Anyone want to buy a house???
    
    Thanks!
    Patty-who-USED-to-love-to-sit-on-the-floor!!
    

    Seems like the first thing to do is {gasp!} *look under the rug*...
    
    Maybe it's not even a bug!
    
    Edd

    whatever it is, is MUST have been alive, because there's no other way
    possible that it could've gotten there.  To lift the rug, I would have
    to break a seam where the hall rug meets the playroom rug, as well as
    pull off of 2 walls to get to the 'area in question'.  
    
    Anymore helpful hints??
    
    Patty 
    
    p.s. re: Edd .... I wish it WAS a snake - I LIKE snakes! ... but they
    don't crunch  8^( 

    This may be out in left field, but assuming that the subfloor is
    plywood, could the noise be caused by a 'flaking' of the wood
    underneath, perhaps from moisture, or a void in the wood? 
    
    If the sound was heard more than a couple of times, I would rule out a
    bug, since it would probably be squashed beyond recognition by now and
    wouldn't have enough resistance left to crackle...
    
    Now, maybe if there was a whole family of bugs.....;^) ;^) ;^)
    

    Well, feeling a little more 'adventurous' last night -- I tried  to
    make whatever it was 'crunch again' - but there was nothing crunchy
    anywhere.  So I guess this means that I probably just smooshed whatever
    was left of whatever it was all over the place. YUCK.
    
    Never thought of the subfloor - which is plywood.  The area in question
    is probably about 2"x2" (GUESS!) - if it were the subfloor, would it
    still be crunchy??  PLEASE say no .... (-:
    
    THANKS!
    
    Patty

    
    I have the same noise.
    
    Do you have wall to wall, did they use track strip to hold you carpet
    down.
    
    My noise if from the carpet setting back on the tack strip.. Wood
    with tiny nails.
    
    Cal.
    

    The carpet is wall to wall.  I'm not sure how it was installed - Dean's
    did it (if that helps any) when we had the house built.  It appears to
    be somehow 'tucked under' against the walls.  The seams are excellent
    and the carpets match perfectly.  
    
    I'm sure that the crunch came from underfoot (as opposed to the edge of
    a wall), and was only 2 crunches, never to be heard from again.  
    
    Do you THINK that something the size of a June bug could really have
    crawled far under a carpet?  I don't know a lot about bugs and what
    they can/will tolerate.
    
    One other thing that may matter - we had a barbecue the day before and
    the doors were open all day, so ANYTHING could've crawled in (maybe
    don't necessarily 'live' there - just got stuck? (she says hopefully).
    
    	THANKS!
    	Patty

    
    Patty,
    
    The Carpets are sometimes tucked under on the edges, rather than
    cut.  
    I honestly believe it is only the carpet settling on the nail strips.
     
    I have exactly the same noise as you have in several spots on my
    floor.
    
    I have very good carpet , all the same color and I put it in.  I
    have one seam in the middle and used the tack board on the outside
    and some in the center.  This particular room sits over a full two
    car garage.
    
    It sounds funny, and does resemble the crunching of bugs, but is
    actually the carpet.  
    If it still bothers you have a carpet installer come out and possibly
    stretch out the carpet a little more.
    
    I really don't think you have bugs.
    
    Cal.
    

    I had a similar crunching noise happen at an apartment I used to
    live in.  At the time I thought it sounded like stiff burlap
    tearing.  Now that I know what the back of wall to wall carpet
    looks like I believe the carpet backing was breaking apart in
    that spot, probably due to a poor installation.  I understand that
    too much flex in the carpet backing (a poor installation) will
    cause the carpet to wear faster.  Does the your carpet flex a lot
    when you walk on it?  If so, it may be a good idea to follow .7's
    advice and have it stretched some more.
    
    Who installed your carpet and how long ago?  I believe you said
    Dean's but do they have their own installers or do they use various
    contractors?  You may want to check the reputation of whoever
    installed it just in case.
    
    Good luck!
    Ruth

    Hmmmmmmmm -- now this sounds possible.  I don't know if Dean's has
    their own installers or contracts out.  The carpet does have some flex
    in it, but what might be more interesting is that we recently bought a
    new vaccuum (a VAX), which has INCREDIBLE suction, and actually lifts
    the carpet when vaccuuming.  The area in question is a very high
    traffic area, so it's possible that the rug is coming apart.
    
    I'm not quite convinced 'cuz I would think that we would've heard the
    same noise more than just twice, and possibly in more than one area?
    The carpet's 5 years old, and is in pretty good shape
    
    Or maybe the new vaccuum just puts things in weird places/positions and
    it was re-settling?
    
    Thanks!
    Patty

Bugs?  VAX?  Is this HOME_WORK?

    Patty,
    
    Along the same lines...  It might be something as simple as one
    of the staples holding the pad down coming loose after your
    vigorous VAX vaccuuming and then getting squished/catching on
    the carpet when you stepped on it.
    
    Since you're the one who heard the noise, you'll have to be the
    judge but I imagine it would be pretty tough to hear a bug getting
    crunched under a carpet since the carpet and foam pad would tend
    to deaden the sound.  As you can see, I'm prone to rationalizing
    away the possibility of bugs - I hate them.
    
    Nah, it couldn't be a bug,
    Ruth

    
    If it was a bug, and a crunchy one at that !  Maybe it got under the
    carpet from the bottom up....  Is this a first floor room ? Sometimes
    knots come out of the plywood or the seams are not tight and something
    crawled in from the basement ceiling ! I'd move out NOW !!
    
    but seriously, as has been suggested, it could have been the carpet
    or a bubble in the padding material, resulting from vaxing ....
    
    

    Another thought might be the padding itself.  Our recent installation
    of carpet in our addition had padding that was a composite of old
    foam pieces, "bonded" together.  Overall, it's held up great.  But
    one "downfall" is that, occasionally, you get a "crunch" or "pop" sound
    where you've essentially flattened a more porous piece of the
    padding.  And you crunch it once or twice, and then it's gone.  Could
    be that.........
    
    andy

    sorry I've been so long to reply .... been on vacation.
    
    	Gee, it really sounds like it might NOT be a bug, huh?  I don't
    even want to THINK about something crawling up from the basement.  The
    basement ceiling has 2 layers of insulation, so it wouldn't be easy to
    tell.  And if it was, I'd have to move out NOW! (-:
    
    	....and then the other day this HUGE black flying water beatle (?),
    on a suicide mission got in the house and had my husband and I running
    for cover.  ~3 inches long, 1-1 1/2 inches wide, flies REALLY fast into
    walls and people, but couldn't crawl worth a damn.  It only took about
    2 hours to finally dispose of the thing - THE BUG THAT WOULDN'T DIE.
    .... unless it's his relatives living under the carpet - then I would
    move!
    
    	Thanks for all the suggestions!  The pad for the carpet is a foam
    rubber, so that's probably not it - but even if it was a bug, I haven't
    heard anything else, so I'm willing to chalk it up to a lost pest!
    
    that thought of things crawling around my basement ceiling is going to
    keep me out of there for a while (-:  yuch!
    
    Patty

    The thing flying around sounds like a June bug. Ugly, but realativley
    harmless, and an erratic flyer. 

    About the crunch.... is it possible that a little mouse was storing
    up nuts/seeds for a cold winter day, and found a crack or hole in
    the floor that he thought was to a small mouse pantry?  Maybe after
    the crunch he/she whisked them off to a safer spot....

    re .-2  Definitely not a June bug.  MUCH bigger than that.  We've got
    June bugs everywhere, and they do seem like they're kamakazees, but
    this thing was huge. Yech!
    
    re .-1 - I doubt it's a mouse - to get to the floor from the basement,
    he'd have to be able to crawl up a cement wall and then hang upside
    down and balance on the insulation - too much work when there'd be
    plenty of other easy access places.  Besides that, I've never
    seen/heard a mouse in the house or any traces of one, and the cat is a
    pretty good 'moler' so I assumed he'd go after mice as well.
    
    Unless of course the crunch WAS the mouse.  Double Yech!

    I'm at the end of my rope - I hope someone can help, soon, before I do
    something drastic.
    
    I have what I'm almost positive are June Bugs (AKA the bane of my
    existence) in my bedroom.  They're not in any other room in the house. 
    They don't come out when I'm relaxing in bed pre-bedtime.  They like to
    come out a few minutes after I turn the lights out and I'm ALMOST
    asleep.  I hate to admit this, but a few nights ago I was awake from
    10-12:30, standing on my bed, tissues in hand, killing them.  At least
    they're stupid and are killable.  (I hope no one from the ASPCA is
    reading this.)  I can't see any holes in the screens; there aren't
    multitudes of other bugs in the house (I'm good at keeping the doors
    closed, etc.).  The only other thing of interest is that they seem to
    come in batches - like about 10 or 15 the night I spent 2 1/2 hours
    with them.  Then there will be a few each night, then another batch. 
    I've thought maybe they're breeding in the bedroom....?  And they're
    not even shy - they think nothing of getting into bed with me, landing
    on me, etc.
    
    Does anyone have any suggestions?  I've had the house for 5 years and
    this is a first....
    
    THANKS!
    
    Carol

    Are they really June bugs???
    
    June bugs are pretty big, fat beasties. Basically dark brown or black,
    orangey underneath,with smallish wings...
    
                          / / /
                       O(      )    Life size
                          \ \ \
    
    ... and have a fairly difficult time righting themselves if they end up
    on their back. 
    
    Edd

    Gee ... our June bugs are about twice that size.  Another interesting
    point is that they tend to fly AT things in a Kamakazee sort of
    fashion.  They seem particularly interested in going for people's
    heads!  Mostly they seem attracted to light.

    
    Anybody have a cat you can borrow? My cat used to eat them like potato
    chips (that's what they sounded like to me when she munched on them
    ;^) ). Kitties love bugs (catching and eating!)
    
    Fred

How about installing a ceiling fan and turning it on high?  Might get a little messy...:-)

Dave

    It's a little late in the season for June bugs.  If they are greenish
    in color you may have Japanese beetles, which are in great profusion
    right now.  If so you could get a Bag-a-Bug Japanese beetle trap and
    (following the instructions) install it 30 feet downwind from your bed.
    
    					- Vick  :^)

My question is, Has anyone succesfully covered the oozing oil/slime in a RR tie?
I have ties that are part of my front steps, and a couple of them are oozing.

Would a good scraping, and a covering of blacktop sealer work?

						.dave.

    I had the same problem, I used sand. I stopped the tar like stuff
    not to be tracked around.

    I've searched through all the pest notes, and I nothing seemed to
    address this.
    
    Yesterday we came home to a bunch of redish brown winged ants (?).
    They were all about 1/4 inch long, and were crawling all over our 
    front concrete steps. 
    
      1) Do these sound like harmful pests, from this limited description?
      2) What bugs would be swarming at this time of year (Massachusetts)?
    
    Thanks,
       Vin

    From the description, and you can hope I'm wrong, but it could be a
    termite swarm. Termites swarm when the nest becomes too large or when
    they become disconnected from their nest. Typically, the weather is
    warm and follows a cold spell.
    
    Since termites typically build mud tunnels from the ground along
    concrete foundations to the wood entry point of your house, you may
    have found such an entry point. Pay close attention to cracks along the
    foundation near where you spotted these. Then look for an entry point
    and damage to the wood. You'll also need a more specific description of
    the critters you found. Are the wings falling off a lot of these bugs?
    
    But don't worry, for a $1000 bucks or so, you can get rid of the
    termites.

    The easiest way to distinguish termites from the various varieties of
    ants is to look at their waists - ants have wasp-like pinched waists
    while termites have wider waists (it's all that fiber in their diet).

    Also the wings are much longer than the body.

First, thanks for the responses.

I closely examined the dead bugs (I killed them with bug spray when
I first saw them, and collected some in a jar.)

  They do have small waits and a tappered back end. They look very wasp-like.
  Most of them are reddish-brown, but there are some smaller black ones, too.
  (The reddish-brown ones are about 3/8 inch long, INCLUDING wings. The black 
  are about 1/4 inch long, INCLUDING wings.) Their wings stick out past their 
  bodies by a length equal to the length of their back end. None of them have 
  lost their wings.

  Diagnosis?

  Thanks again,
   Vin

Termites!!

I would definitely have a pro come to your house and do an inspection of your
house.

:-(

Kevin

Wait a minute. I thought termites were very UN wasplike.  They have no waists,
right?  I thought they looked kind of like little grubs with legs and antennae.

Whatever these things are, I don't think they're termites.

Paul

I got my info from someone who was reading her description and said that's what
his termites looked like.

Hmmm... Maybe he got ripped off!! :-)

I any case I would definitely have someone take a look.

Kevin

    You used to be able to take samples to your county extension office
    (in Mass., that is the UMass Extension Service - see your phone book)
    and the entomologist (sp?) would tell you what it is.
    
    I once had a swarm of similar thingies and was told it was a form of
    wasp.
    
    Are the wings long and thin, like the body, or kind of like a delta wing
    (triangular shape) when crawling? I suspect long and thin is a termite,
    triangular a wasp.
    
    Go get 'em!

    The wingtips are rounded. I can't remember the position of the
    wings when the bugs were walking around. But when they're dead,
    the wings go straight back.

    
    Does anyone know what "Maryland" ants are?  This is what the manager of
    my apartment house says the ants that are crawling out from under my
    toilet are.  His wife said he used a commercial product called "Enforcer" 
    to spray at where these disgusting things are crawling out and I was just 
    wondering what was in it.
    
    Thanks,
    
    CQ

    
    I know this is a very old note. BUT.
    I have a question does a what does a SILVERFISH
    look like. 
    
    Thanks
    steve

    Like a 1930's train.  They are bigger at the head than at the tail but
    real smooth taper from a bulbous beginning to a point at the end.
    
    Kind of a large round head which tapers back to a split tail with lots
    of little legs along the side.  They are flat and have a silver-ish
    tint to them.  They have a segmented body kinda like lobster tails.
    
    I have always heard that they eat paper, espeically books and magazines.

To add to .8  (based on those things that I was *told* were silverfish)

1/4" to 3/8" long.
Very quick.

    
    re: last 2
    
    Thanks 

    I heard they like glue .... like the glue that your wallpaper is stuck
    to the wall with.  And are also fond of carpet padding.  And BOY are
    they FAST!!
    

    I am in the process of purchasing a house and was thinking of using a
    bug bomb on the place before I move in mainly because the current
    owners had two dogs and a cat. Can anyone suggest a good bug bomb to
    use and also do I have to vacate the house for x amount of time before
    going into the house.
    
    Thanks
    Tom

    I've used the Vetkem brand available only thru a veterinarian I think. 
    They are made to kill fleas but seem to kill all bugs in the house and
    are suppose to continue working for something like 17 days (makes you
    wonder what they leave lingering around!)  They are somewhat expensive,
    I seem to remember ~$9 per 750 sq. ft., but they do the job.

    A vet ought to have some stuff.  We did it once.  It's quite a
    production.  If you can do it before you move in, that's definitely
    the best time.
    Bascially, what you do is get enough cans to cover the area you
    need to cover, set them out in the middle of the chosen rooms,
    then go through and set off the cans, working towards an exit.
    Go outside and wait for several hours, then open windows, doors, 
    etc. to ventilate.  I set up a window fan beforehand so I could
    hold my breath, go in, open the window and turn on the fan, and
    dash out again.  I also opened (from outside) an opposite door
    for cross-ventilation.  After half an hour or so, I went back
    and opened more windows, upstairs and downstairs.  I'm not sure
    that amount of caution was required, but I felt better about it.
    
    Don't forget the attic, cellar, etc.  If you're doing it, you may
    as well do the whole works.
    
    I heard (possibly another "urban rumor") that somebody one did this
    and managed to slip and fall on the way out, knocking themselves
    unconsicious, and the gas killed them.  So, make haste slowly!
    

There are 2 varieties of flea killers available.  One kills adult fleas, the 
other deals with the "pre-larva" form.  Most pet shops carry them.  Zodiac and
Harts Mountain make them, as does Raid (discount stores carry these, too).
The last time I dealt with an infestation, I had to buy 2 kinds, but I vaguely
remember seeing a 2-in-one bomb available since then.

The adult killer is just a run of the mill insecticide for fleas.  BUT, eggs
can outlast the insecticide, hatch and put you back where you started.  The
pre-larval stuff gets absorbed into the eggs causing them to hatch without 
mouths and thereby starve.  The only problem is the larvae which are not 
affected by either, and can sometimes reach adult form after the adult 
insecticide wears off.  This problem is solved by reapplying the adult killer
after a couple of weeks.   Sounds complicated, but it isn't, really.  The scary
part is the stuff that mutates the eggs.  It kinda makes you wonder about what
it might do to you..., but after a couple of flea bites, you stop worrying and
go for it.

    Our vet recommends a product called Premise.  It's a spray, not a bomb.
    It's the only thing he would recommend for use with a sick old cat
    like we have.  You don't spray it on the cat, but on the floors and
    furniture.
    					- Vick

    I've never tried a bomb, but what was VERY effective for us when we
    moved into a flea-infested apartment was ..... go to the local
    supermarket and pick up a few cans of the Flea Powder for Dogs (it's
    stronger than that for cats), at about $2.00/ea, then sprinkle the
    flea powder all over the floors, then leave it for a while (we did it
    before work), then come back and vacuum it all up.  Worked perfectly!
    
    **IMPORTANT**!!  You MUST treat the entire house at the same time, or
    the fleas will just jump from room to room.
    
    I figure if it'll kill the fleas if they're on the dog, why won't it
    kill 'em if they're on the floor?!  Cheap too.

Most flea powders for animals are repellants, not killers.  So, unless you 
provide a nice place for the fleas to vacation, powders won't do much.  Of 
course, it depends on how bad the infestation is.  I returned from vacation 
one summer to find an infestation so bad that as I sat on the edge of the
bed trying to figure out what to do, I could see the fleas hopping around 
on the wood floor.  I sprayed some cutters on me and my bed, and went to sleep.
The next day, I bombed the house.  The result was staggering.  I was able to
sweep the fleas from my bedrrom alone into a PILE!  I mean on the order of a
half cup of fleas from just one 12x12 room.  I took about a week to totally
recover, what with vacuuming all the rooms and washing all the dishes, etc.

       I'd highly recommend anything with precor in it. This stuff which is
    found in some sprays and bombs is s growth inhibitor for the larvae. So
    if eggs do survive and hatch the larvae never develop into adult fleas.
    An application of precor lasts for about 180 days too so it really
    breaks the cycle. All of the powders I use most certainly do kill the
    fleas at leat the ones with pyrethins or cabaryl..
    
    Bob

    This will probably sound like a stupid question to most of you " locals
    " but I'm relatively new to this fair land so here goes. My question
    concerns moth damage to clothes. Does it occur in the winter, summer or
    both ?. I had assumed that it was a spring / summer phenomenon where
    you would put your winter wollies away in a cedar chest or something
    but I have noticed that places like K mart and CVS have started to
    display moth balls etc in the last month or so. Made me wonder if I
    should be taking as much care when storing my summer stuff as I do with 
    my winter stuff.
    
    Moth-eaten of Acton

    I really don't know what time of year that the moths are active, but
    one thing I was told was that dry cleaning your sweaters (anything
    wool) will prevent moth holes. This was because the moths dislike the
    solution the dry cleaners use.
    I've been doing this for 7 years and haven't had to worry about holes.
    		Cindy
    

    I thought I saw a reference to this certain bug in one of the 1111.74
    notes, but can't seem to find it.
    Last week I found a few flying insects both in and out of the house.
    They are about 3/8-1/2 inch long, are black (not shiny) with a
    brown stripe across the middle of their body. They have an even
    width to them, about 1/8".
    Anyone recognize these, know what they do, and how to get rid of
    them?
    
    Thanks,
    John

  We've got 'em too. It's a beetle. I forget which kind, but it's not a
  Japanese Beetle, and they haven't done any sort of damage around our
  house, so we just leave 'em be. They apparently eat some plants, but
  none we're concerned about. Are they a problem for you in any way?

    HEY!  We have 'em too!!  They move _real_ slow ?  Impossible to kill?
    The stripe runs width-wise, not length-wise, right??
    
    We've had 'em for years, and hardly ever see them unless we spray, or
    occassionally we'll find one in the corner someplace.  If anyone knows
    what they are (and WHY they're there - yech!!), it'd be nice to know!
    
    Patty

    Sounds like larder beatles. Usually found where people have leftover
    crumbs and other stuff that might be left after a hurried or careless
    cleaning. Basically harmless, but indicative of less than thorough
    cleaning.

    re .30
>  none we're concerned about. Are they a problem for you in any way?
    With an infant in the house, and with our house on the market,
    I'd like to keep the uninvited guests out of the house!
    
    re .31
>    HEY!  We have 'em too!!  They move _real_ slow ?  Impossible to kill?
>    The stripe runs width-wise, not length-wise, right??
    
    Exactly. Sounds like the same bug. I've never seen them until last
    week.
    
    re .32
>    Sounds like larder beatles. Usually found where people have leftover
>    crumbs and other stuff that might be left after a hurried or careless
>    cleaning. Basically harmless, but indicative of less than thorough
>    cleaning.
    Hey! Did you hear that .30, .31? (course, .32 wouldn't know about
    these unless...  :-)
    
    Actually, I found them in the living room, and there is no food ever
    in there (anywhere else, I might buy that). Also on the outside
    near the living room. When I see the same bugs in and out, I get
    nervous.
    However, if they are basically harmless, I'd rather not do anything
    drastic.
    
    Thanks,
    John

>    Sounds like larder beatles.
>    [...] indicative of less than thorough
>    cleaning.

  Unless the previous owners did any thorough cleaning, our house has
  never had one, nor will it! It's lucky if it gets a cursory cleaning.

  As to whether these are larder beetles, though, ours are strictly
  outside in the yard and around the deck, and the stripe runs
  lengthwise. So who knows?

Moderator: I couldn't find anything in the PESTS directory, so I'll 
write a new note.  If there's discussion elsewhere, please move this 
note.

We're having problems with moths in the house - clothes moths.  
Can anyone suggest ways to rid the house of these little guys 
short of bug-bombing the whole house?

We've moved the wool stuff into plastic, but they're still 
around.  This is the second year.  Last year, they got several 
items of clothing (ouch), and we don't want anything else 
attacked!

We've tried the little hanging moth repellents, but those are 
hard to live with...

Any suggestions?

    
    I have been told that moths do not like the fluid used in dry cleaning. 
    So have ALL your clothes dry cleaned and store them in sealed plastic
    bags immeidately when you get them back.  Aromatic red cedar is a
    natural method of deterring pests.  Line your closets with cedar.  
    That is why Lane lines they blanket chests with cedar and install an
    air tight seal on the chests.
    
    You can find old cedar blanket chests for about $75 if you look around. 
    If the odor has diminished, sand the cedar and the odor will become
    more strong again.  Eddie Bauer outdoor clothing catalog used to sell
    oil of cedar to rejuvinate old cedar.
    
    I have lined our closets with cedar and my wife complains that the
    smell of cedar reminds her of the cedar shavings that her childhood pet
    gerbil lived in.  If you line the closets, you need to keep the door
    closed to help contain the odor of the cedar in the closet.  
    
    You must clean your clothes because the moths do not eat the clothes,
    the larve eat your clothes.  The mothes lay eggs in your clothes and
    then when they hatch, they eat your clothes.  Killing the moths is too
    late.

Speaking of cedar shavings, it's a lot easier and cheaper to hang bags of
cedar shavings in your closets than to line them with cedar.  You can get
a huge bag of cedar shavings for a couple of bucks in a discount store.
Stuff the feet of old pantyhose with shavings and tie them to hooks or
closet rods.

    Ummm...cedar smells nice and has a great reputation for repelling
    moths and all that, but I seem to recall reading someplace that
    in fact it doesn't do a thing except make your clothes smell like
    cedar; it has no effect on moths at all.  I can't verify, but I
    think I would not put too much faith in it.
    
    Probably the main thing to do is wash/clean EVERYTHING to get rid
    of the larvae.  And there are always mothballs.

Since everyone is presently telling tales of insect woes, I thought I'd kick in
with mine.  It is gypsy moth caterpillars.  They are everywhere on my property.
I have oaks all around (apparently their favorite food).  I have a huge oak at
the end of the driveway.  It looks like an explosion in a salad bar underneath 
it.  I am also working on a dry stone wall/pillars under this oak.  EVERYTHING
is in constant motion: crawling, wriggling, climbing.  I reach for a stone and
*splut* I have a hand full of green slime from a crushed caterpillar.  When it
rained and I walked down the driveway, I nearly killed myself.  Their green 
sh*t is very slippery when wet.

They are crawling all over the house.  They get in the garage under the doors.
I have found a couple in the house!  I found one in my car one morning!  The
best part is the driveway.  They crawl out on that in this hot weather and 
never make it to the other side.  My driveway is the "elephant burial ground"
for the caterpillars.

They hang from the trees, my eaves.  I walk out the door and into one of them.
Truly gross.  I think they even spelled something on the back wall of the 
garage but it was in Hungarian or Romanian so I couldn't read it.  It is like 
living in a bad B movie.

Stan

    Population's definitely up in the Northeast this year.

    The last really bad infestation (trees looked like December in mid
    June) ran from about '80-'82. Looks like the next one is starting,
    pitting neighbor against neighbor ("You can't use Sevin near my
    house!").

>    The last really bad infestation (trees looked like December in mid
>    June) ran from about '80-'82. Looks like the next one is starting,


	I have two stories!  One kinda funny, one kinda creepy!

	FUNNY:

	It was Memorial Day weekend in '81.  Had the whole gang there out
	in the backyard doing the usual picnicky type thing.  Had a lot of
	kids there too.  One thing they DON'T like is PEPPER on their
	steak!  I told them to eat it anyways, was good for them.  Found out
	the next day (after seeing these so called catepillar walking all
	over the place) that the "pepper" was really Catepilla S**T!  I never
	told the kids, but after getting grossed out about it, I thought it
	was a bit comical!!!

	CREEPY!!

	Sometime in June of '81 I left the house with my then 3-year-old to
	go to the bank, about 10 minutes down the street.  I returned no more
	than 1/2 hour later.  I drove up the driveway and stared at my house.
	The whole loser half of the house was MOVING!!!!  Not just part of
	the house but ALL THE WAY AROUND THE HOUSE was covered with these
	things.  I couldn't get into the house because when I tried to walk
	to the door, they were under foot about 2" deep and at least 3 feet
	from the house!  My white front door look 1/2 white 1/2 black!

	This was the CREEPIEST feeling ever!

	At night-time I could hear them munching on my veggie garden as well
	as my Oak trees out front!  (I now have the goose bumps recalling
	this incident from over 10 years ago!!!!)

	Just thought I'd put in my 2 cents worth!

	Are you real sure they are back????  Do I need to get my axel grease
	out again!!!????


	Y U C K!!!!

    During the last invasion....I tried everything. The best solution was
    to use the old grease trick.
    
    But a band of metal around the tree,then apply bearing grease thickly
    to the metal. Stops them cold!
    
    Marc H.

  Just to elaborate on .11, I use aluminum foil, duct tape, and petroleum
  jelly.  The duct tape is to ensure a good seal between the tree and
  the bottom edge of the foil.  It doesn't take a very large crack to let 
  a lot of caterpillars through.  This year I've protected our 2-year-old 
  shrubbery as well as trees this way.  I've tried the ready-made wrapping 
  tapes and I think they are basically useless as well as very expensive.

  The other useful tactic (and it may be too late for this now) is spraying
  BT (bacillus thuringensis, though I wouldn't bet the ranch on that 
  spelling).  BT kills 'em when the beasties are less than about 3/4 inch
  long and it slows down the bigger ones.  But BT washes off after a
  rain and they recommend spraying every two weeks anyway.

  The last-ditch tactic, which I've had to use these past two years, is
  spending an hour or so examining the fruit trees and shrubs and killing
  them by hand.  Not pleasant work but better than watching them destroy 
  our landscaping work.

  The 81-82 infestation was so bad that we lost many hemlock trees in
  the woods around our house (Epsom, NH).  This one looks to be at least
  that bad and I sure hope that virus shows up before they reproduce...

  JP

    
    
    Arrrrraaaauuuuugggghh!  Not Again!
    
    Where are all of you people located? Where is the infestation now? I
    haven't seen anything in the Maynard area yet.

  Epsom is about 15 miles east of Concord, NH -- say, 45 miles north of ZK.
  For the past two years the infestation has been pretty patchy in and
  around Concord.  Last year, on a drive up I93, you'd have seen large 
  areas that looked like mid-winter and other areas that seemed untouched.

  JP

    I've seen a handfull of the beasts in Millbury. (South of Worcester)
    
    Edd

    what is the banding intending to accomplish?
    
    It is a bit of a leading question so i'll flush it out.
    My understanding is that a goodly portion of the distribution of the
    caterpillars is airborn. Comments?

    sigh....we have them in Fitchminster.  One nearly fell into my beer can
    the other afternoon while working around the house.  It's like a
    regular paratrooper invasion with all of the little s.o.b.s dropping on
    thin threads from seemingly everywhere.  ALways sounds like it's
    raining in the yard too.   
    
    I don't
    
    - Leave the sunroof open in the cars
    - Leave beveridges unattended
    - Leave food uncovered outside (Barbecue type activity)
    - Yawn alot 
    
    I do wear a hat more often now though.  
    

    Yup, the Leominster/Fitchburg area is loaded with the bastards... 
    their everywhere (i.e. roof, siding, foundation, fascia, trees, shrubs,
    lawn furniture, deck, drinks, you name it) we had a BBQ last saturday
    and the table looked like someone dumped a 5 lb bag of poppy seeds on
    it.
    
    My wife took to spraying the 2 trees i planted last year (maples) with
    the soapy solution someone mentioned to us.  Killed the caterpillers,
    but burned the leaves and damn near killed the trees in the process.
    
    re: exploding salads... excellent analogy ;^) still laughing
    
    Fra

    I've used a solution of dish detergent mixed to dishwater strength to
    rid my asparagus fern of aphids. Maybe this would work on trees and
    gypsy moths as well. Can't imagine why such a solution should harm
    trees. If you used one of those sprayers that attack to a garden hose
    you could probably do good coverage, although you would have to repeat
    whenever it rained.

    The grease keeps the catepillars from climbing the trees.  They
    seem to come down to the ground on threads (I think) at some
    point during the day (maybe at night?) and the grease keeps them
    from getting back up the tree again.  I could be wrong about this....
    
    Some reassurance (for what it's worth): nearly all trees can
    withstand one year of defoliation, so don't panic if the beasts
    devour your prize oak tree; it probably won't die.  Pine trees
    will survive if the catepillars don't eat the very base of the
    needles, down where they come from the branches.
    
    It's not anywhere near as bad (yet) in the Maynard/Bolton area as
    it was in '81...I hope it doesn't get that bad around here again!
    For all of you who are in the middle of a full-scale invasion, my
    sympathies.
    
    I wish they ate poison ivy....
    

    The disgusting things climb up and down the trees, so new ones can't
    arrive once you've banded the tree unless they get through a crack or
    whatever.  I haven't seen any this year, thank goodness - I liv right
    near HLO, Hudson, MA.  I remember the last time they were real bad - I
    had just panted a new crabapple tree, and it got completely defoliated
    three times that summer before the BT took hold - luckily it survived
    and is doing OK now.  My nextdoor neighbor was trying to paint his
    house that summer.  He gave up and did it the following year - he was
    only managing to make a really tremendous mess!  When the caterpillars
    are on the ground, they bit me when I was working in the flower garden
    beds - a real pain.  And the oak woods behind MRO, where I was working
    at the time, looked like the dead of winter.  These things are a
    plague!
    
    /Charlotte

   Gypsy moths can be a pain... Aside from the "high tech" solution of using
a virus to get them, the band around the tree works.  However, I would wonder
how safe is any grease - with all the heavy metals, carcinogens, etc. If you have
a well, its another consideration if you want that stuff leaching into your water
supply.  It only takes a little bit, and then, years later problems arise -
you get the picture.  There are organic goo's available which I've used on the
last infestation and they last a very long time before its time to "repaint"
them. Comes in buckets.  Since we were well aware of upcoming infestation
(County and Rutgers Agricultural Ext.)we put the stuff up.  Took a few weekends,
but we got every tree with a ring of goo ( no need to use tape or metal bands).
( few hundred trees!!!) and the 'pillars left us alone.  Ate the neighbors'
trees and you could see the difference.  Larva are always on the ground and crawl
up, so if you get 'em early they starve. After a rain, they have to crawl up. 
That's why you ll see the bigger beasties.  The ones on the house are a nuisance
more than anything else unless they jump to the trees.  Spraying rarely helps,
since you ve got to coat every leaf. (not to mention the chemical hazard, again)
Good luck!

  As people have said, the airborne part of the assault is when they slide
  down their threads.  They go lots farther when they are small and when
  the wind is blowing.

  Re: <<< Note 3613.22 by NYDVIA::PIZZELANTI >>>

  I think petroleum jelly is fairly safe but I'd like to hear more about
  this organic goo -- has it got a trade name?  I was told that putting 
  the jelly right on the bark would kill the tree by girdling it (but
  I don't know whether or not this is true), so that's what the foil is for.
  The foil tends to get pretty tattered as the squirrels and racoons travel 
  over it...

  I have see some stuff called "tanglefoot" but it was very expensive.

  Spraying BT is not a chemical hazard, by the way.

  JP

    Re: 3613.22
    
    Well,I do not think that putting NEW grease around the tree is going to
    make my home into a toxic waste dump!
    
    Grease is mainly oil and soap. The "fancy" stuff has other metals in
    it. You only need the cheap stuff to do the job.
    
    The last time I tried to stop the moths....the grease trick worked
    very well.
    
    Marc H.

re .17:

>    sigh....we have them in Fitchminster.  One nearly fell into my beer can
>    the other afternoon while working around the house.

Now there's an idea, but how do you get them to work around the house?
Threaten them with BT?  Do they do windows?

    my neighbor used a bag attached to a stick (sold in hardware stores)
    which attract the female moth (white), they crawl in and can't get out. 
    Work very much like a beetle trap.  Only problem I can forsee is that 
    they only work after they have defoliated your trees and turned into a
    moth.  But the flip side is that you'll be cutting down on the number 
    you see next year, i don't know what the average litter is per moth but 
    you can bet it's in the high hundreds.
    
    Fra

I have protected all the ornamental shrubbery (read: the stuff I paid $$ for)
with tin foil and Vaseline around the trunk.  I have been using mechanical
removal (read: picking the little bastards off with my fingers, dropping them
on the ground and then stepping on them) almost daily to remove any paratrooper
assaults.

I didn't think banding the trees would do any good if they were already up
there but from what it says in these notes it looks like I should band my
indigenous oaks.  I noticed they are getting hungry enough to eat the pines.

I have been unable to find an off-the-shelf neutron bug bomb.  You know, the 
kind that leaves the buildings and trees standing but kills the bugs.  So I
have been working on a DIY version.  I am still short about 4 lbs of fissionable 
material and a kryton tube.  Maybe a note in the "For Sale/Wanted" note...
(for any FBI guys out there - this is a joke. haha - see smiley faces :-):-)

I am in North Andover.  I understand my street is a "pocket".  It would cost
$180 to call in the Air Force (read: aerial spray).  Less if I can get the 
neighbors to go in on it with me.  I am considering it.  I have a bottle of 
Sevin.  I may go nuts with it this weekend.

Stan

Unfortunately, I've already seen plenty in Maynard, though the
crisis hasn't yet reached the proportions it did ten years ago.

Ick Ick Ick.


Liz


P.S. That wasn't the sound of them munching. It was their shit
dropping. These creatures are gross.

 RE : few back...
    John is right - the goo is called tanglefoot. there are other products
that are different brands ( ie band-aids, curity adhesive bandages same
difference!) for this product.  It wasn't too bad on price- used about two buckets
(some left over) for a really wooded lot (1+ acre).  A little goes a long way.
When everyone was mentioning axle grease, etc.  I was wondering. even now, soap
and oil, ie motor oil?  that's what I'm afraid of... but anything else, including
petro jelly would work.  Its a matter of permanance - jelly is probably more 
expensive than the tanglefoot, but it seems cheaper 'cuz you re buying it in 
little 59c jars.  the tanglefoot lasts longer.  
   Girdling is stripping the bark for a complete ring around the tree.  the
bark is a sort of skin or nail on a tree that is sloughed inward and outward. Some
loggers do this as a way of seasoning the wood in place.  Placing the goo
on the tree wouldn't do any damage and its a lot less work than the banding.
Oaks are a bear to do,but all you need is about an 1/2 to 1 inch band
and very thin smear goes a long way(!).  Birches you can do quickly. Try the 
stuff, you ll see its a lot tackier than petro jelly. Most workable in hot 
weather or warmed over ( micro wave!!!!) .  I used a spackle brush.  Cleanup
with soap.  Looks like carmel.   
  FWIW, I ve recently got a book on trees, will extract other pertinent info and
post .  
  And now, onward with the rathole...

    Around mid july you should look for their pupa, you can scrape them
    off the trees and kill them (bon fire?) Late July to early August
    look for and kill the white female moths, I understand they don't
    fly, only the males fly.  Later you can search for and destroy the
    egg masses which will be on lots of their favorite trees.  The masses
    are beige in color and about the size of a quarter.
    
    As a cyclist, I do my part by aiming for the little buggers when I
    see them crossing the road.  When they're as thinck as they were in
    '82 that's not a good idea, though. [slip slidin' away]
    
    ed

You can now buy waferboard sheets of cedar.  It's in standard 4x8 sheets, 1/4"
thick, of chopped aromatic cedar wafers.  A real inexpensive way to cedar-line
a closet.

Paul

    Re: banding a tree with foil & goo
    
    I was told that the purpose of this setup was to make the 'pillars
    get stuck in the goo, so that when the sun shone on the foil, it heated
    up enough to kill them. True or false?
    
    Re: moth traps
    
    be very careful in how you handle one...the lure is *quite* effective.
    
    Back in '81/'82 during a big infestation, we were at the in-laws doing
    the typical BBQ-thing, when my mother-in-law asked me to help set up
    one of those gypsy moth traps. As I assembled it, I opened up a small
    sealed envelope which contained the lure. It was a small piece of white
    material, about 1" or 2" square. Being the city boy that I am, I couldn't 
    believe this harmless-looking stuff could actually do anything, so
    (trying to be funny) I waved it around before putting it in the trap, 
    and called out "Come and get it!"....within *seconds*, I had *hundreds*
    of gypsy moths swarming all around me...it looked like a takeoff on
    Alfred Hitchcock's "The Birds"!!! I was immediately banned from the
    BBQ, and had to take a shower and change my clothes in an attempt to 
    wash off the scent...Powerful stuff...

    In view of the observation that caterpillars move from tree to tree by
    being wind blown...
    
    I sure would like to hear definitively whether banding the trees with
    *anything* is of any particular merit.
    
    Sounds like it MIGHT aid in prevent caterpillars from getting OUT
    rather than getting IN. Of course, if they slide down the shaft of
    yarn, then they wouldn't be getting back IN.
    

    The banding most definitely saved many of my oaks.
    
    Firstly, the caterpilli don't get stuck in the grease, they practically
    REFUSE to touch it. So much so that the area beneath the bands looks
    like a wiggly, furry sweater. The only way I ever saw them get thru
    was when so many piled up at the edge that others crawling over them 
    made a kind of "bridge".
    
    If I remember correctly they feed at night in the tree, and rapel down
    during the day. They instinctively climb. Altough there will be some 
    that get blown tree to tree a majority will touch down and have to
    climb for their next meal. (Grass seems to be a last resort meal.)
    
    Banding is well worth the effort...
    
    Edd

  Banding keeps the critters from climbing up the trunk, period.  The
  vaseline will kill them if they try to cross it but most don't.  As
  to how effective it is, all I can do is point at the banded trees in
  my yard.  Below the band, you'll see a writhing, furry mass of stymied
  caterpillars.  The foliage of these banded trees look slightly
  tattered but the unbanded trees in the woods are approaching complete
  defoliation.

  Much as we hate to do it, we're about to escalate this war to include
  limited chemical warfare.  Last fall we took out some hardwoods in one
  corner of the yard and left the hemlock saplings.  Our plan was to let
  the hemlocks grow up into a nice, opaque evergreen shield between us
  and the road.  But those tender young hemlocks are just _covered_ with
  caterpillars and soon the trees will be dead, if we don't do something.

  So (at the advice of the local county extension service) I'm going out
  tonight with some Sevin (which I think is the pesticide rotenone).  If
  anyone else takes this step, please remember this stuff is very harmful
  to bees.  The extension service recommended using it in liquid form and
  then only in the evening (when the wind has died down and the bees have
  gone home).  This gives it a chance to dry before morning.
  
  JP
    

I think Sevin is synthetic.  Rotenone is a resin derived from the roots of a
South American plant and a Malaysian plant.

    Ok. sounds convincing.

    Tell me, to they always LEAVE the trees by rapelling or do they
    sometimes climb DOWN the trunk. Perhaps they eventually get to heavy
    for the ropes they spin?
    Just what to the furry little critters do during the day, anyhow?
    
    
    				herb
    

I've never seen them on top of the band so I assume they always repel out of the
tree and then climb back up it. 

The goo works great but I used to like to get out side with a propane blow torch 
occasionally and fry whatever critters I saw around each band and then burn off
the white cocoons also. Usually the torch won't even kill them directly but it
makes them curl up into a little ball and drop to the ground for easy squishing

:-)

Now that I'm in the Northwest I haven't seen any of these critters but you east
coasters would love to see a full scale slug invasion :-) ugh


John

  Herb, 

  Since they just hang out under the band (in ever-increasing numbers),
  they don't appear to like to climb down.  From the sound of the
  caterpillar droppings in the woods around my house, I'd say they eat 
  day and night, conditions permitting -- my guess is that they break
  out the rappeling ropes when it gets cold, rainy, or windy

  Not sure if they get too big to use silk.  I have noticed that when they
  get to be 1.5 inches long and 3/8 thick or so, they will double themselves
  up and _jump_ off a tree trunk if threatened.

  Last night's chemical attack went well -- the hemlocks are clear this
  morning.  And I also noticed the first signs of that virus (aka wilt or
  blight) -- when they little beggars hang upside down with their back ends
  attached and their front ends hanging free (an upside-down "V").

  JP
    

    We are lucky enough to just have a few of the caterpillars in our yard.
    Many years ago we had a bad infestation, but it never got as bad as
    the horror stories we've heard from other people.
    
    The wilt/blight/virus seems to be well established in our yard.
    Consistantly, year after year, the caterpillars die before they
    can mature.  This year I managed to find only 1 egg mass, even though
    I was looking for them.
    
    Personally I dislike spraying chemicals to try and kill them. What I'd
    do if I had a bad problem is try and get the wilt established in my
    yard.  What I'd do is find some sick caterpillars and put them among
    the healthy ones, hoping that they all catch the wilt, and that the
    wilt will get established.
    
    Rich

  Ah yes, my biological warfare sub-approach.  Yesterday was the first
  time since 1981/82 that I saw a "wilted" caterpillar in that distinctive
  upside-down V position.  I put it carefully among the caterpillars
  on one of the banded trees and I have high hopes for infecting them
  en masse.

  But last year I saw quite a few caterpillars that died before the
  cocoon-building stage from some unknown cause (there was mention of 
  some Japanese fungus that saved the day in parts of Mass.).  I collected
  some of those caterpillar corpses and saved them in a sealed container.
  Last week I broke that open (the smell was enough to give a jackal
  the dry heaves) and spread it among the critters on a different banded
  tree.  I haven't seen any effects from that but I'm still hoping.
 
  I've asked the extension service about culturing and spreading these
  GM blights but they just shrug.

  JP

    Last year, the ba... er, critters reached a length of about 1 inch
    before they started showing up in the inverted V.  This year, the
    population is a little higher, but not epidemic as in '81-'82.
    I'm hoping that the disease is still hanging around; I haven't
    used BHT and I'm trying to avoid using Sevin unless they declare
    nuclear war on the oaks.
    
    Regarding feeding: an entimolog... entommo... bug article I recently
    read indicated that they feed mostly at night, and return to the
    ground to sleep it off under the dead leaves and thatch.  However,
    as they reach maturity, they become ravenous and will feed night
    and day until they pupate.  This usually happens late June.
    
    PBM
    

    A couple points.
    
    o Be careful where you spray (not that it will do much good) so as
      not to kill honey bees.  During the last attack in 81 I lost 
      7 big hives to "seven"! Back then they were worth about $200 each.
    
    o I have said this before and believe it's still true. "They will
      all be here,  after we are all gone". The ants, the bugs, the flies
      they were here first, they be here last, and nothing we can do to them
      will even make a dent.
     
      Buzz
     

    About those wilted GM catepillars... I read an article that said you
    should collect a bunch of those inverted V catepillars into a
    container, add some water and mash 'em up real good.  Then go out and
    spray the stuff on the catepillars or trees.  This would spread the
    disease much faster than if you just placed whole infected catepillars
    out there.
    
    -al

re .-1:

That's called "bug juice," and it's effective against other insects as well.
Apparently some insects are repelled by mushed up compatriots.  I'm pretty
sure it's discussed in the gardening notesfile.

BTW, I'd suggest getting a blender at a yard sale rather than borrowing
your spouse's.

    
    (Remember the Saturday Night Live "Bass-o-matic" commercial? :-)
    

  Re: a few by Gerald Sacks

  Right you are about Sevin not being rotenone.  Sevin is lots nastier
  than rotenone -- the directions for using Sevin are frightening and
  rightfully so.

  I haven't seen any evidence that these caterpillars find mashed
  compatriots at all off-putting.  By now, most of our shrubbery is 
  surrounded by dead caterpillar slime and new bugs keep arriving on
  the bushes at an amazing rate.  And I'm told that at least some insects
  are merely enraged by mashed brethren (e.g., some types of bees).

  There was an article by the extension service in a local paper on
  the subject of these bugs.  Because this spring has been so warm, dry,
  and windy, the caterpillars are not as vulnerable to the fungi and viruses 
  (viri?) that usally kill quite a few of them.  And the windiness has meant
  that some areas will see caterpillars even though they didn't see egg
  masses or have an infestation last year.

  JP

    Weird.  I remember them being black.  This year they are flourescent 
    yellow.  They are all over my new apple trees.  Time for banding. 
    Thanks for all the advice!
    

    
    
       They're back....................
    
        Acton, Mass between AKO1 & 2 and in my yard in full force in
    Westford.

I've seen only a few of the buggers so far, and haven't heard the
munching yet (this is Acton/Boxboro area). I recall somebody saying
last year that the area around Lunenburg/Fitchburg was hit bad, but we
were pretty much spared. What's the prognosis for the Greater Maynard
Area this year? By the way, our town's been spraying BT for mosquitoes.
Does this have any effect on the Gypsy Moth caterpillars?

    I always thought BT was for gypsy moth caterpillars, not moquitoes.
    
    

    BTi is used for mosquitoes (note the "I").  It has no effect on
    gypsy moth catepillars.
    
    -al

There are various strains of BT.  The first one to hit the market targeted
caterpillars.  BT israelensis (it was discovered/developed in Israel) kills
mosquito larvae.  There's another variety that kills Colorado potato beetles.

(I love how I have the same problems now that people had years ago...;-)

newly purchased 6yr old house - 

	- I have wasps in my attic.  They seem to find ways to get in the
		house occasionally.... I'm hunting for all entre's.
                I've already zapped most of the lower nests on the outside.

	- My ridge vent doesn't appear to be screened.
	- Not clear the soffit vents are either.

The attic is a b**** to get around in.  It's a hip roof with FHA/AC ducting
all over, like a big octopus.  I need to haul up some pieces of plywood
just to get around without falling through.  Getting down to the soffits
appears impossible in some places.  I presume that the person that 
retro-screened his soffits (.0 or .1), did it from the outside?   
Not clear it's worth it for me based on hassle per sheer footage.

_Has_ anyone retro-screened a ridge vent?
Ideas?  Comments?

Ignore the wasps?  (the attic is unusable for storage space, but I do have
a garage loft that will have the same problems.)

	Dave.

I have wasps getting into my newly constructed garage, too.  However, I
get them in all sizes and I don't think the bigger ones would fit through
the ridge vent.  I've discovered, though, that there are other holes --
e.g. gaps over 1/4" where the clapboards meet the roof angle on the
gable ends.  Rain cannot get in these holes, but insects would have no
problems.  For that matter, mice could get in if they climbed the wall.
I found another large gap at the end of the ridge vent -- it is covered
by shingles so that rain won't come it, but I expect insects can find it.

Anyway, my first advice is to look for other possible holes.  I found mine
by noticing dim light where none should be -- it took a bright day and
no lights on to see it, plus being fairly close to the holes.

My second advice is to not try to do anything with the soffit vents from
inside the attic.  I spent part of the spring putting up insulation
blocks so that I could insulate my attic, and was that ever a bearcat
of a job!  I've still got scabs on my head from the roofing nails that
I could not avoid -- a hardhat wouldn't have helped, because if it cut
down my headroom by as much as 1/2", I couldn't have done the job at all.
And I wasn't trying to reach down inside the soffits, I was just reaching
out to the ends of the ceiling joists.  It didn't look like it would be
that tough a job, but it surely was unpleasant.  It would be easier with
a more steeply pitched roof, but mine is 6 in 12.  

If I close up all the other gaps and the wasps still get in, I'll try
screening my ridge vent.  I've got Cor-A-Vent -- that plastic stuff that
looks like corrugated cardboard.  

	Luck,
	Larry

    Anyone ever heard of Particle Beetles?
    
    what do they do? where do they come from?  How do they rank compared to
    Carpenter ants?
    
    thanks
    Joe

re: 4653.0              Particle Beetles? who are they?              No replies
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    Anyone ever heard of Particle Beetles?

Though I'm no expert, is this a synonym name for "Powder Post Beetles" ?

The "Powder opst Beeetles" (so I have heard them called), tend to make their
homes in dead pine wood. If one is quiet enough, you cna actually hear them
munching their way through dead pine trees and cut logs. They are 
easily identified by the very fine pine powder coming out of the 
entrance hole .. vey easily blown away ... and relativley noisy for their size.

I have some in my barn stairs, and I have seen evidence of them (past tense),
in my cellar. They seem partial to softwoods.

Any help ?

Bob

    Powder Post Beetles seem to like hardwoods too. They have eaten into
    my oak beams too. They seem to be MOST prevalent where the wood is wet
    or damp. After stoping the leaks in my house and keeping the
    basement dry, I have pretty much stopped them.
    
    Marc H.

Are Powder Post Beetles the critters that make big dead pine trees go
creak-creak-creak ?  These suckers are loud!

-Mike

    thanks for the input, but I have another question...
    
    are these as bad as termites?  or once identified and eliminated, is that
    the end or does the damage continue?
    
    thanks again,
    Joe
    

    Some years ago I rented a converted barn in Boxboro that had powder
    post beetles in the beams.  It was pretty wierd to sit in the living
    room on a quiet summer day and hear all this munching going on around
    you.  They were tough to get rid of.  The owner had someone in 3 times to 
    spray and they still didn't get them. They're pretty tough to get at when 
    they are burrowed in the wood.  I don't believe they are as bad as 
    termites.  Rather than workng in colonies they are individual insects that 
    cause much less damage.   Of course anything that eats your house will 
    destroy it over time.
    
    George

    
    Long ago and not so far away, before the developement of modern
    pesticides, home owners would use paint as protection against PP-Beatle
    damage.  If the damage isn't plain enough to see and you have painted 
    beams in your cellar or barn, it's a good indication that at one time 
    there was a problem with them.   
    
    If they're as loud as advertised, I guess mine have moved out!   
    
    /Jeff

    If you have a problem with powder post beetles, there is a new product
    on the market called Impel rods.  You drill in the post/beam and insert
    these rods.  The borate in the rods moves to the moist area of the beam
    by osmosis, and is apparently very toxic to these beetles, as well as
    carpenter ants, fungi, and other wood destroying organisms.
    
    Look in any issue of Log Home Guide, Log Home Living, or Timber Frame
    magazines, at most bookstores.
    
    Our beams were green when the beetles moved in at the mill.  But once
    they dried out, the creatures left because there wasn't enough
    moisture.  But the magazines will tell you all about that.
    
    Elaine

    RE: .7
    
    Indeed.....the bug holes in my old house were caused either from the
    inital bugs in the wood when the wood was cut, or when the wood was 
    wet due to a leak.
    
    Marc H.

i have a bug question - not sure if this is the appropriate note

I live in Worcester, Massachusetts.

I have noticed some moths particularly in the kitchen and around the house.
These moths are tiny and they lay their eggs on the ceiling a lot.
I notice the eggs hatch into tiny catapillars.

are these gypsy moths or what

I have never seen these before this year and have lived in mass a long time.

darryl

Gypsy moths are relatively large - about the size of a quarter.  They come 
in two colors:

	Male - Brown with some slightly darker markings,
	Female - Your basic off-white

The female lays an egg mass about the size of a dime that looks like tan felt.
(round and fuzzy)  This happens end of July, beginning of August.  The eggs
should hatch next spring.

Stan

    These are probably miller or cereal moths.  You
    are apt to find their little white caterpillars in
    your rice, flour, cereal boxes.  They are a real
    pain once they get established.  The only way
    to reduce their population is to keep all such food
    in tight containers, or even in your refrigerator.
    
    	Dick
    

    DO you have a pet bird? Or a bird feeder near by?  Bird seed mixtures
    have a little bug in them that usually is in a larvae state until it
    gets warm.  Then they hatch into those pesky little moths.  I keep bird
    seed in the freezer, likewise with whole-wheat flour that I don't use
    very often.  My other grains get used up quickly.  Check your cabinets!
    Sarah

no pet bird

it is hard to figure out where they come from but they prefer the
kitchen mostly. i will attempt to look at all the food areas and
seal off any exposed food.

darryl

    Your problem sounds like one I had in a previous residence. I heard
    that they were also called "flour" moths. The moths are about 1/2 inch
    in size and are brown in color. If you examine your grain products in
    your house, (ie: crackers, cereal, pasta, etc...) you may notice some
    parts of the package appear to have some cobwebs inside. If that is the
    case you have an infestation.
    
    	The only way I found to control these little buggers was to keep
    *all* cereal/grain products in the refrigerator. I did this for a
    *year* and they appeared to have gone away. Then I took out my grain
    products and they came back!
    
    	I finally solved the problem... I moved.

I found a bag of spilled Soy flour that had been in the back of one
cover. The bag also had small holes in it. when i looked inside I
saw a lot of them using the bag as a spawning ground.

The covers were cleaned out and any open bags or boxes thrown out

i can still find them but not as many. I am finding most
in the white catapillar stage. I am hoping that these are the residuals
and that after a couple of weeks more, the number will dwindle to
insignificant. I hope that by spraying the entire kitchen, it will get
many of the remaining eggs i suspect exist.

and if they have no food supply ... they may vacate the place

darryl

    We had two different kinds of bugs infesting our kitchen
    at the same time.  There were the ants that came out looking
    for goodies anytime we started working at the countertop
    (in fact, we could "call" them by tapping a glass on the
    countertop!).  And at the same time there were these little
    beetles, black, very small, may 1/32" in diameter, that seemed
    to like meal and grain, but spread throughout much of the
    upstairs and migrated in droves to the nearest window.
    
    When my family went on a month's vacation leaving me alone
    I decided to get rid of them once and for all.
    
    First, I got rid of the ants.  I bought this "terro" ant killer.
    It's a sugar solution with some sodium borate in it. (It used
    to be sodium arsenate in the "good old days".) You put it on
    a piece of paper whereever the ants are, and they come and drink
    and take it back to the nest and poison everything there.
    
    So I put some out on a piece of paper, and literally "called"
    the ants.  For about a week it was like cattle around a pond,
    as they came and went, taking the stuff to their nest (which,
    incidentally, was under the foundation; their path to the
    kitchen started in the basement at the main drain, went up
    about six feet, branched off horizontally for maybe another
    15', then up again a couple of feet, then horizontally
    again another 8', finally exiting in the kitchen.  Quite
    the explorers those ants were.) At any rate after about two
    weeks there was only the occasional ant coming to gather
    goodies.  So it was time to start the second phase of the
    assault.
    
    I figured the beetles were nesting in some old boxes of food,
    so I started cleaning out the pantry, which, of course had
    been accumulating archives of ancient food for some
    time.  What an experience.  Towards the back there were beetles
    crawling around everywhere.  I noticed that they had actually bored
    right through some of the boxes.  In one case they actually bored
    into a container of hot Hungarian Paprika.  Finally I found the
    real "beetle hotel", or more accurately, 2 hotels: a couple of
    boxes of pasta we'd been saving for about a decade for a "special"
    occasion.  The boxes were literally solid beetles.  I was surprised
    that what with all the holes that they didn't fall apart.
    
    All in all I threw away maybe $50-$75 worth of food.
    That got rid of the immediate food source, but the house was still
    crawling with a bunch of hungry beetles.
    
    The next day was a beach day, so I went to the local hardware store,
    bought some fumigation "bombs", and set them going while soaking
    up some rays.  I opened all the cabinet doors in all the rooms; one
    "bomb" was started in the kitchen, another in a distant wing of the
    house.
    
    When I got home there were piles of dead beetles all over the place.
    A lot of them had made it to the windows in the apparent belief that
    they could get out.  In any case, it took me maybe a half hour to vacuum
    up most of the dead little buggers.
    
    For the next few days I watched carefully for any signs of life; and I
    found some (sigh!).  Well, at least the last few ants had been
    discouraged.
    
    Apparently quite a population of hungry beetles existed in our area
    rugs.  I say hungry not because they were eating the carpet (which
    they weren't), but because at the time of fumigation they were
    apparently already migrating through the rugs towards the windows,
    and hadn't been close enough to the fumigation bombs to be killed.
    They probably hadn't had a bit to eat in days.  So as the days went
    on I started seeing these stragglers arriving at their destination.
    
    Well, another convenient beach day was just about at hand.  So I
    bought 3 more fumigation bombs (the package had claimed one was
    enough, I had used 2, and that wasn't quite enough...).  Oh yeah,
    I also noticed that there were some trapped between the windows and
    the storm windows so I had to open the inner windows as well.
    
    At any rate when I got back from the beach there were more piles
    of dead beetles.  This time they had literally crawled out of
    cracks in the woodwork, where some of them had escaped to the
    first time.
    
    It's been well over a month now, and so far we've seen no more.
    We also did a really thorough cleaning of every nook and crannie
    in the pantry and removed additional piles of dead beetles, and
    even threw away some additional food that was suspect.  We still
    find dead beetles in pots and pans that are seldom used, casualities
    from the assault.
    
    

    re: .6
    	You might be surprised. The flour moths nests seem to be made up of
    a kind of material similar to cobwebs. After my initial adventure with
    them I thought I had won the battle. After about a year I had an
    occasion to open up a light switch box that was near the kitchen. I was
    "surprised" to find a nest there. I don't know how long the eggs can
    remain viable, but from my experience, I would assume that for all
    practical purposes it is forever. 
    	(Doncha just love the idea that until you discovered that you had
    this infestation you were probably eating their eggs in your food and
    you didn't even know it? >-{ !
       
    
    	Throwing away all cerial foods is a good start. While you have the
    cabinets open I would suggest vacuuming them out thouroughly to get any
    traces of food dust that migh have been left behind.
    

    another source of their favorite food happens to be dog biscuits. I
    brought home a box of biscuits and until I discovered the source, had
    these *%*# moths and worms everywhere. Needless to say, the better half
    was not amused. We used to keep the biscuits under the kitchen sink 
    but now, I only buy them in the clear bags. Believe me, I check very
    closely.
    
                

	I have a problem with spiders on the front of my house.

	I have lots of them.  I can sweep them away and hose down
	the frnt of the house and they come right back.

	does any one know what draws them or how to get rid of them?


	tom

    
    Neat.  Ecologically sound halloween decorations.  Either that or you
    had a dead relative returned from the Amazon jungle recently?
    
    Maybe because there's spider-food there - got anything that might attract
    flying insects, like a porch light that's on continuously?  Nest of
    carpenter ants?  Jovan Musk aftershave?
           
    C.
    
    
    
    

    I'd work on why they are staying. Spiders ain't dumb. They will stay
    there as long as there is a food source. Eliminate the food source, and
    they will likely disappear.

RE:                   <<< Note 2509.3 by SUBWAY::YATES >>>

	>I have a problem with spiders on the front of my house.
	>I have lots of them.  I can sweep them away and hose down
	>the frnt of the house and they come right back.
	>does any one know what draws them or how to get rid of them?

     Your place sounds sort of like mine.  I can't say that I have a "lot",  
     but there are noticeable webs being constantly built in the summer.
     I attribute them to the several fruit trees in the yard.  The fruit trees
     attract multiple forms of flying insects, and the flying insects (spider
     chow) attract the spiders.  I just keep the webs which get in my way
     hosed-off, and they tend to build webs elsewhere.

     There is one large spider which I had the urge to spray (for self-defense),
     but it made such a fantastic web that I felt compelled to leave it alone.

                                         Greg  

    
    
    
    	Spiders eat bugs. Spiders are our friends! If you have spiders you
    can be sure that you have fewer bugs that you would otherwise.
    
    	In some cultures spiders are considered good luck!
    
    

    RE: .2
    
    My son was bitten by, and treated for, a Brown Reluse bite this past
    Spring.  Since the incident, he has killed two more in his NH dirt
    cellar.
    
    My garden, attic, and basement are home to a variety of spiders,
    snakes, and other life.  Basically, I am an advocate of "Live & let
    live;" however, I draw the line at sharing my home with poisonous
    creatures.  Had I discovered Brown Recluse living in my home, I too
    would have dispatched them.
    
    I first heard of the Brown Recluse in the '60s where they were common
    in the Mid West.  Apparently they are adapting to the New England area
    as well.  It can be identified by a violin-shaped marking on its
    abdomen (I guess you check this the same way you check the hourglass
    marking on the abdomen of the Black Widow - very carefully ;-) ).  The
    bite is seldom fatal, except the possibility is greater in infants,
    sick, and elderly.  
    
    Treatment has been refined since the '60s.  The time was, when the
    affects of a Brown Recluse bite would linger for months, even years, as
    the venom destroyed muscle and tissue, causing swelling and pain.  To
    our mutual relief, the medicos cleared all symptoms in a matter of a
    week, with no adverse reactions.
    
     	-mike-

    
    
    Thanks a lot for telling me all of that right before I plan to go under
    my house to insulate the crawlspace!!!!  :-{
    
    

RE:                 <<< Note 2509.10 by KEYBDS::HASTINGS >>>
    
>    Thanks a lot for telling me all of that right before I plan to go under
>    my house to insulate the crawlspace!!!!  :-{
 
     You've got to get into the right frame of mind for such escapades.  What
we did was to rent the "Arachnophobia" tape and watch it before grabbing our
dust-busters and climbing up to the attic to clean out the webs.  It made
a dirty chore pretty amusing (blood-curdling screams from seeing a spider the
size of a tic-tac).

                                       Greg   
    

re .10:

Gee, Mark.  How did you survive working on 21-4 with all its "mascots" in the
windows?

:-)

-Mike

    You may need a magnifying glass to find that violin.  Brown recluse
    spiders are only about the size of a dime.

    re: .12
    
    	Mike, if you think that you've seen spiders based on what you saw
    in 21-4 all I can tell you is "Ha, you ain't seen spiders." I have so
    many spiders on my property that more often than not I will find
    webbing on anything left undisturbed for more than a few days.
    
    	Why there are some days when my machete gets dull just cutting
    through the webbing, I mean I needed to put lead weights in my baseball
    bat because without them I coudn't do more than temporarily stun the
    bigger spiders, I mean...   ;-} ;-} ;-} ;-}
    
    re: .13 
    	OK so now that I have my magnifing glass how do I pick up the
    spiders to examine them??? (Remember one hand has to hold the
    flashlight and baseball bat ;-}  )
    
    
    Seriously though, I am aware that spider bites can sometimes be
    dangerous. I have one friend who was once bitten by what they think was
    a spider. She was bitten on the foot and as a result has to spend 3
    months in the hospital, almost lost the foot, and finally got away with
    only a skin graft. It seems that the bite got infected with strep
    somehow.
    
    BTW what are the symptoms of a Brown Recluse bite?
    
    
    	<Gawd doncha just love the info that this conference yeilds!>
    
    
    					Mark

    Spiders are a constant source of amusement and protien for my two cats. 
    If you'd like a kitten, I can you in touch with a friend who has four
    new ones.
    
    Karen
    

re .14:

Since I know you are on water I know of the huge brown water spiders you
probably have on the dock.  Add to that all the "regular" spiders that are
attracted by all the bugs that live near water. We had a place on a lake as a
kid.  I've seen up to almost 5" legspan on the water spiders there.  Here
the water spiders don't make it up to the 4th floor so you only see the
little ones, actually.

Supposedly, brown recluses have a venom that digests flesh somewhat.  I've
heard that they produce huge sort of hollowed out sores, and can result in
amputations in extreme cases.  Fortunately they're rare, and reclusive so
they're unlikely to be encountered.  I've never seen one (that I know of).

-Mike

    
    	Where can you get waferboard cedar sheets?  I work in SHR- would
    	Home Quarters in Shrewsbury, Mass have them?  How much do they
        cost?
    
    					Thanks!
    
    					Jane.

    Here's a new twist for you.
    
    We recently received a blender from my in-laws.  It was their blender,
    but they gave it to my wife.  As it was coming from a known roach
    environment, I disassembled it.  Sure enough, it contained at leas a
    dozen roaches, and was coated with roach poop.  I killed every roach I
    saw.  Unfortunately, I could not completely remove the motor from the
    machine, so I could not inspect for eggs.  Does anyone know how long it
    takes for a roach egg to hatch?  I figure that I need to be vigilant
    for the maximum amount of time.
    
    Thanks,
    	   JAM

    Spray around the motor area (but not directly into the motor) with a  
    good roach killing spray.... The fumes will kill the eggs.
                                    
    Jim

    Roach eggs come in egg cases with between 40 and 50 eggs each.  The egg
    cases are fairly large (about 1/3 the size of an adult roach) and
    shouldn't be hard to spot.  It takes about 6 weeks from when the egg
    case is dropped by the female until they hatch.  Pesticides, heat, or
    cold are not particularly effective against roach eggs.
    
    You could keep the motor sealed in a plastic bag for 6 weeks.  Then
    you'll know if you got them all. 8-)
    
    Bob

    You could then ask youself, "Do I really want a blender this badly?".
    
    Jim

    re:.17 my thoughts exactly. What is the cost of having an exterminator
    come out to spray for an infestation compared to the cost of a new
    blender???

I believe the life cycle is expressed in terms of weeks - at most a month -
which explains the monthly visits of an exterminator at a previous employer.

bjm

A new blender is what. $15?  Seal it in a plastic bag, throw it out and
buy a new one.

			Steve

Throw out a prefectly good blender just because it might be infested?
Doesn't sound environmentally responsible to me.

    Ok, so burn it!  :')
    
    Jim

Which environment?  Inside the house or outside?

Stan

    Thanks for all your inputs.  Yes, risking infestation to posess a used
    blender does not make much sense, but there are occasions when my wife
    can be stubbornly irrational.  Also, the blender does have some good
    points.  It's an Oster, and is old enough to be mostly made of metal. 
    Repair should be relatively easy, if needed, and even the plastic parts
    were made to last.
    
    Well the blender is in a plastic bag out in my garage.  I've marked my
    calendar to check it in January.  I think I've taken all the necessary
    precautions to avoid six-legged housemates.
    
    Someone said that cold doesn't seem to bother cockroaches.  In your
    opinion, would you say even six weeks in winter tempretures 24 hours a
    day would not kill roaches?
    
    Regards,
    	    JAM

    > Surviving 6 weeks in the garage...
    
    I've heard roaches will survive a nuclear blast (at least better than 
    humans!)...
    
    I'd suspect 6 weeks in the garage will simply amuse them.
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    
    	Re: .24
    
    > Surviving 6 weeks in the garage...
    
    	I've never seen a herd of cockroaches migrating south for the
    winter, so I bet they probably survived plenty of cold winters before
    nice warm New England houses were built a couple of centuries ago...
    
    	If your wife won't let you pitch it, I'd put it into a big
    see-through plastic bag first, so that I could look at it without the
    risk of opening a bag full of cockroaches to see if any of the little
    buggers are in there.  Then I would put the plastic bag into a larger
    bag that I couldn't see through -- such as a regular 30 gallon garbage
    bag.  I would then put that garbage bag into a larger box with some
    other items that you don't really need: labeling the outside of the box
    with all the contents except for the blender.  I would put this box
    somewhere in the garage where it will clearly be in the way.  (By the
    way, have you considered that the coldness might suspend the growth of
    the eggs and it might take longer than 6 weeks to determine if its 
    safe?)  Once spring arrives, wake up one day with an "out of my way
    world, I've just _got_ to clean out that garage!" attitude.  Pitch the
    box.  End of worry.  :-)
    
    							-craig

    I hope all you people are just kidding this poor fellow along. The
    thought of roaches living inside the motor case is just plain silly.
    The egg pouch is large and can be easily identified. If you do indeed 
    soak it with roach killer...they will die. I worked part time for 
    a pest control co. in Fla.(which by the way has some large hard to kill 
    bugs), that never had any trouble controling bugs. The climate did help
    the population alot. Up here in the North they are not as prevelent. In
    fact, I have not seen any in this area.
    
    Jim
    
    ps you can always take the blender to a pest control co. and tell them
    the story about the blender's history. I'm sure they would inspect it
    for you.

Cockroaches are quite prevalent in New York City.  I admit they don't compare
to the ones in Florida.  In Jamaica they supposedly have flying cockroaches
that are the size of a small bird.

>    I've heard roaches will survive a nuclear blast (at least better than 
>    humans!)...
    
      A  nuclear  blast itself will kill roaches about as effectively as
      it kills humans. However, any surviving roaches will will tolerate
      the high levels of radioactiviy better than surviving humans.

    
    	Re: .29
    
    >>    I've heard roaches will survive a nuclear blast (at least better than
    >>    humans!)...
    >
    >      A  nuclear  blast itself will kill roaches about as effectively as
    >      it kills humans. However, any surviving roaches will will tolerate
    >      the high levels of radioactiviy better than surviving humans.
    
    	We might be really crawling down into a roach-hole here, but I read
    somewhere that the cockroach's body can withstand much higher levels of
    overpressure than the human body can.  Since most of the damage from a
    nuclear blast is overpressure damage, cockroaches really would have a
    higher immediate chance of surviving it.  (Or course, buildings get
    destroyed in overpressures much lower than what will kill a human, and
    it is the building falling apart that kills a lot of the occupants.
    Since cockroaches have adapted so well to our buildings, perhaps this
    evens the score. ;-)
    
    	But, from the sounds of it, the blender in question would probably
    survive the nuclear blast *including* the house collapsing around it.
    
    							-craig

Put some boric acid in the bag along with the blender bottom.  That way any
roaches that do hatch will die quickly.  Perhaps then leaving it in a warm
place will encurage hatching so there are no nasty suprises after you put the
blender into service.

Boric acid is pretty harmless to people, when you remove the blender base clean
it with a vacuum cleaner and a damp paper towel.

-Mike

    Be careful, all that disassembling and roach searching could
    "accidentally" render the blender inoperable, and with a little
    research, it might even be irreparable.  But, I'll bet a penitent
    look and one of those new roach free blenders wrapped with a big red 
    ribbon, would lead to total forgiveness...

    As a side note to this. If you were to run the blender for a while..
    it'll kill the little suckers (if there is any) all by it's self.
    Electric motors produce ozone, and the litle buggers have trouble
    with the stuff....
    
    :-)
    
    
    Jim

    
    To the tune of "There was an old woman who swallowed a spider":
    
    	Oh, there was a young feller,
        With a roach In his blender
        If his wife had seen it
        Nuts it would send 'er
    	(Perhaps she'll cryyyyyyyy)
    
    	So he sealed in Ziploc(tm)
        Put out in the cold
    	So if them bu**ers hatch
    	They won't get too old
    	(Perhaps they'll dieeeeee)
    
    	He put in some spiders
        To get the survivors
    	And sprayed it with Deet
    	To make it complete
    	(I don't know whyyyyyyyy)
    
    
    'Course, then we'd need a bird to catch the spider and cat to catch the
    bird an....

	    I remember reading about tests done on roaches to see how
	much abuse they can handle.  It seems you can literally freeze
	a cockroach for a year and when you thaw it out, it will return
	to the land of the living.  Put your lunch down for this:  If
	you chop of a roaches head, it can continue to do it's thing 
	for several hours.  Although, I imagine it would have trouble
	eating, also.
	    I believe the little buggers can go ??? months without food
	or water.  

					Tim

    Yeah, but how long can they survive any of the following:
    
    1.  Listening to rap music
    2.  Hearing about the latest royal family news
    3.  Watching America's Funniest People
    4.  Re-runs of Murphy Brown
    5.  Listening to Barry Manilow or Barbara Striesand
    6.	Watching Love Story
    7.	A King Family Christmas special
    8.  Being sat on by Delta Burke
    9.  Mama's Family
    10. The Golden Girls

>    Yeah, but how long can they survive...
      going down rat hole in notes conferences?
      
      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      
      I   remember  hearing  about  "Wonder  Roach  Powder",  which  was
      guaranteed to kill roaches *PROVIDED* that it was  used  according
      to directions. The directions told you to catch the roaches, put a
      funnel in their mouths, pour 1  pound  of  the  powder  into  each
      roach, and then smack each one with a 10 pound hammer.
      
          Wonderful stuff that Wonder Roach Powder!

    > ...then smack each one with a 10 pound hammer.
    
    Wouldn't that cause them to *exhale*, blowing the powder all over?
    
    Edd

>    > ...then smack each one with a 10 pound hammer.
>    
>    Wouldn't that cause them to *exhale*, blowing the powder all over?
      
      Did I leave out the part about stapling their mouths shut?

    
    There was a classic psychology experiment done with headless roaches:
    
    	teach a roach how to perform some trick like find food in a maze
    
    	cut off it's head & drill a small hole in the upper shell
    
    	get another roach, drill a hole in it's back
    
    	glue the headless roach on to the back of the new roach, upside
        down so that both holes are in contact
    
    	new roach will perform the trick that the old roach could do
        without the need for any teaching.
    
    	both roaches will live for several weeks.
    
    no practical applications as yet.
    
    C
    
    

Classic psychology experiment or classic case of a psycho?  I'll bet the
perpetrator pulled the wings off flies as a kid.

    re 41 Not a psycho at all.
    re.40. Did you take a bio course at the U. of Fla. also?
    
    TMW...former Southerner...

>>    no practical applications as yet.

I dunno... maybe used in the next TFSO???

    TMW,
    
    Experimental Psych at University of Reading, UK.  South, but
    not in the same country.  Did they do that work in your alma mater?
    
    C
    

    We had wild cockroachs all over the place. We used to get those
    "bleeding heart groups" that did not want us to test on white mice..... 
    so the 3 inch long insects were the next best thing. I even got hell
    from an bunch, cause I had a shinned and dried Bull Frog that I used
    for a muscle lab. It was too big for my brief case so it's head and
    feet stick out the ends of a seperate folder.... it was a dead
    give away. 
    
    TMW
    
    
    btw we did some real serious testing with some strong and deadly
    pesticides. Glad I didn't follow that field. 

re .45:

Now I know why you're The *Mad* Weldor (TM).

    Actually we did some good research there. It wasn't all fun and games.
    When you get a bunch of "very bright students" and a sort of inventive
    crazy guy like myself, you have a very interesting course. I was taking
    a few courses for my job .....Pest Control! I really didn't learn much
    for my job, but I did learn how to kill bugs with some serious stuff.
    We even did some stuff to sterilize the female roach to cut down the
    population. But the chemical was harmful to other helpful insects and
    was shelved. We had some chemicals that made them dizzy so they could
    not fly....but they still found each other. They are one hearty breed.
    
    TMW

    Are Carpenter Ants in landscaping timbers a sure sign of rot, or
    potential rot?

    Rot or not, you should do something about the ants before they decide
    to invade your house.

    ...is there a nest, or just lots of "scouts"?
    
    A nest would be indicative of them having found something soft to
    burrow in. They don't eat wood, although it's little consolation to
    know they simply munch it up and spit it out in order to make a burrow.
    
    They look for two things; water and something soft. 
    
    Edd

    
    Looks like a sign of things to come......  The ties are
    starting to rot.  So the ants have a new home.  I'd get
    some Diazon liquid and see if you can spray in an around
    the ties before the ants move in with you for the winter.
    
    JD 

    Did the RR ties have creosote on them at one time?
    
    Marc H.

    Its actually a house I was thinking of buying that had a retaining wall
    in the yard.  The inspector, Paul Cornell,  said the timbers were
    rotting out and that they were infested with carpenter ants.  He said
    within 5 years we would have to replace them.  The timbers did'nt look
    like real RR ties, so I don't know if they are soaked in creosote or
    not.
    
    The construction of the wall is poor, its pushing out at the corners. 
    The owner has offered to strengthen the wall with metal pins at the
    corners.  He can't afford to replace the timbers.  
    
    I feel that the wall should be replaced now instead of just
    strengthening it.  If the wall falls apart it would be a real mess,
    especially since its holding up a good portion of the driveway.
    
    Thanks for your answers,
    
    Ted

    Well, these six weeks have simply flown by!  This weekend, I brought
    the infamous blender back in from the garage.  I removed it from it's
    hemetically sealed bag (read: plastic grocery bag with a twist tie).  I
    found no cockroaches in the bag.
    
    Once again, I disassembled the blender and inspected all the inner
    workings.  I used a strong light.  I saw no adults, no babies, and no
    egg sacks, not even a wiggling antenna.  I also ran the blender, but
    this didn't cause any mass exodus when it was housing cockroaches.
    
    That was three days ago.  The blender sits on our counter.  My wife is
    happy, I hope I'm happy (don't want to get too smug yet!).
    
    Thanks for all the input and humor.  I got alot of mileage out of the
    song!  Any chance for a final verse?
    
    JAM

    I was wondering if roaches live in furniture? We have had a few
    encounters with the pests and had a professional exterminator in as
    late as November. We have not seen any critters but the people across
    the hall and under us have seen some. When we did see any the most we
    saw at one time was three, and that was in one day. 
    
    The problem is we are moving and I don't want to take any eggs or 
    anything with us. The furniture is already at the new place so I hope
    that their aren't any eggs in the furniture.
    
    Any advice or comments?
    
    

    I have successfully moved from a cockroach infested environement.  Here
    is what I suggest:
    
    Shake out every article of clothing before packing into boxes.  Seal
    every access of every box with tape.
    
    Open all likely appliances and determine that you are not taking any
    freeloaders.
    
    We didn't do anything to the furniture as the roaches stayed
    predominately in the kitchen where we lived.
    
    When we moved I discovered only one roach after we moved in (with an
    egg sack no less!)  I crushed this unwelcomed roommate and never saw
    another one.
    
    My father-in-law is moving this weekend.  He's taking none of these
    precaustions (I don't think he can envision a roach-free environment),
    so I expect that he will take a few with him.  I haven't seen any
    evidence of roaches in his new apartment.
    
    Good luck!
    		JAM

My bedroom was next to the kitchen in a roach-infested apartment I
lived in once.  There were some roaches living in my bureau.  I
emptied the drawers, took the bureau outside, removed the drawers and
sprayed every crack I could get at with roach spray, inside the bureau
carcass and out.  About six roaches came running out of hidden areas,
curled up writhing and died (most satisfying!).  I still have the
bureau, and it's still roach-free.

-Chris

My sister-in-law just moved from an apartment (which has roaches) into a condo.
I helped here move in and set up her electronics.  After hooking up the A.V.
stuff, we went to play a laser CD.  Opened the tray, and a roach came out on it.
Didn't move when the mechanism was moving, and we were able to kill it.

								-- Chuck Newman

i know someone who claims they are being bitten by mites

i couldn't see a thing.

i used to think mites only ate dustballs etc but was told
by a pest control guy that certain kinds do feed off people
like bird mites etc.

how does one prove or disprove mites, lice, bedbugs or the hard 
to see bugs. if one can't see them, how does one figure out what
bugs they are.

darryl

    I read just this morning that a swarm of mites can have 50 million
    mites, totalling in weight less than an ounce.
    

    This may be a dumb question, but are mosquitos attracted (or offended)
by any particular color.  We live in a very buggy area and are 
considering restaining our house.  It just occurred to me that perhaps 
I could scare them off by coloring the house in psychedelic patterns  
;-)


/Phil

    
    re: -1 mosquitos
    
    All I know is they tell you not to wear bright color when outdoors
    trying to eschew mosquitos.

They're also supposed to be attracted by carbon dioxide, so holding your
breath would help.

Bright colors can attract bees, wasps and yellow-jackets, but I don't think
mosquitoes or black flies care.  Blood-sucking insects seek carbon dioxide
and warm skin.

				Steve

    I second the base question.  (how to detect small biting insects?)
    
    I think I have something in the house, but I cannot prove it
    or figure out exactly how to treat.  (other than bug bombs
    which I'd rather avoid)
    
    If I cannot find them, I cannot figure out when I've wiped them out.
    
    	Dave.

Could be fleas?

We had a flea infestation in our house once.  We had little red bites
on our legs.  After a while of scratching, etc., we finally caught on
that there was a problem.  Then we would notice the fleas jumping up
out of the carpet onto our legs as we were sitting.

Does this person you know have pets that go in and out of the house?

-Chris

    
    On one TV special awhile back about bees, it showed a circle
    of black cloth, maybe 6" in diameter fastened to something I
    cannot recall, and it drove those killer bees nuts!  They
    attacked the h_ll out of it.  After a short time, the patch
    was retrieved ( don't recall how) and it showed hundreds of
    stingers stuck in it.
    
    FWIW
    
    Fred

    
    	I saw a similar study that used cloth-covered cardboard cutout
    steers to find out how black flies/mozzies detected their prey. Seems
    they use a combination of stimuli - heat, CO2, movement, sweat odours. 
    That's why they don't get easily fooled by single-stimulus lures. 
    Their visual systems are highly tuned to movement (I guess being
    swatted for 200 million years can do that to a brain) rather than
    static patterns or colors.  There's some evidence that yellow/black
    stripes are a kind of universal warning stimulus, but probably not for
    mozzies. Would you like to try a yellow & black striped house?
    
     %-)
              

    Haven't you ever heard of No-See-Ums???
    
    Geesh I get bit by those little buggers every year.
    
    Joyce

50 million mites equals 1 oz. .... eeeeeekkkkk

i have personally gone through flea problems and yes you can detect them 
jumping on the legs but maybe not see them. this person has used 4000 cans
of flea spray. they did have a dog before but not since a year or so ago.

fleas were what i thought they might be but the flea spray has pretty
much cut down the population considerably.

i was told by pest control that sometimes the fertilizer on lawn can send
the mites out of ground and into house but there was none used.

in the past, i too have thought there were things crawling on me but
when i look, i see nothing. who knows, it could be mites especially
if they are such tinee weenie buggers.

food for thought:
i have heard that humans normally have large colonies of living organisms
on their bodies. right now, as you sit and read this, billions of organisms 
are crawling all over your skin living as a parasite. and some of you
may have thought your life had no purpose. think of all the homeless
bugs there would be without you.

darryl

    I hear mosquitoes are absolutely repulsed by pink and yellow polka dot
    houses....I know I am...
    
    ;-)
    
    tim
    

>in the past, i too have thought there were things crawling on me but
>when i look, i see nothing.

Sounds like the DT's.

    A camping tent company once advertised blue tents on the basis that
    mosquitos are attracted to the color blue and  would thus (once in the
    tent) be attrated to the tent and be less likely to bite  you.
    
    	Yeah, right...

I'd read that bit about blue also.  I figure the less you look like a deer or
a moose the less yummy you'll appear.  Anybody read anything about the zebra's
stripe somehow faking out the tse-tse fly?

DT's .... ???

    
    
    How about not taking a shower for about a week.  that should
    keep most everything away!!!!!
    
    
    

    re: .7
    
    Delirium Tremens - acute alcohol poisoning.  Makes you see things
    that aren't there.  A similar thing happens from getting strung
    out on amphetamines (speed) - you get the sensation of bugs crawling 
    on and in your skin.  

    
    revision of .5
    
    I'm covered in bites after boardsailing on Tues eve.  We were getting
    bitten 'way out in the middle of the lake even though we were wet, cool
    recently sluiced and disguised by eau-de-lake & Cutters.  If they can
    detect body heat and CO2 at that range then they have better sensors
    than the Starship Enterprise!
    
    One thing we all had in common was a large, brightly coloured sail. 
    Mine was mainly blue.... :-O
                    ~~~~
                                 
    Colin

i think temperature and humidity changes maybe a culprit also

>    One thing we all had in common was a large, brightly coloured sail. 
							  ~~~~~~~~
	Colin,

	    You're in America now.  Daniel Webster dropped the `u' YEARS
	ago!  8^)  Then there was this American (werewolf?) in London.
	He was at a train station asking for a schedule (as in skedule).
	An Englishman who had overheard him became irritated at this 
	pronunciation.  "The word is pronounced shedule," he eclaimed, 
	"Not skedule!  Where did you learn to speak?!?"
	    The American, not to be rebuffed, immediately responded, "In
	shool!"  (Sorry, I couldn't resist.)

	    Back to the subject:  The mosquitoes have been brutal this 
	spring!  They're out in force in the middle of the day in full
	sun.  The wet spring we had must have been a real boost to the
	numbers being hatched.

					Tim

    re: .11
    
    nit: it was Noah Webster, not Daniel, who did the first American
    dictionary.

    
    OK, I'll invoke the spell checker!  years of schooling is hard to
    eradikate.  but only if people stop calling that nice Mr Clinton
    a "Welsher".  It's a nasty racial slur used only in US English. ;-)
    
    Colin.
    
    PS - Webster cannot spell either.  The current edition of Webster has
    the Welsh word for Wales spelled as "Cymry" or Kymry.  It should be
    "Cymru". There is no K in the Welsh alphabet and the alternative
    spelling offered is Breton, another Brythonic celtic language.
    C/ref to Welsh has the same error, so it's not a typo.
     

>    Delirium Tremens - acute alcohol poisoning.  Makes you see things
>    that aren't there.  A similar thing happens from getting strung
>    out on amphetamines (speed) - you get the sensation of bugs crawling 
>    on and in your skin.  

Thanks! It's been driving me crazy trying to figure out what that was on
my skin!

>    Delirium Tremens - acute alcohol poisoning.

	Aren't the DT's actually a symptom of *withdrawal* - not poisoning?

	Roy

    This topic is starting to "Bug" me....
    Mite me get back to the original note???

>    nit: it was Noah Webster, not Daniel, who did the first American
>    dictionary.

	    Doh!!! I HATE when that happens!  8^)

					Tim

    We had a bird make a nest right under our air conditioner one summer. 
    WE didn't bother to disturb it, since it wasn't disturbed by the
    compressor cycling on and off.  Live and let live - UNTIL I woke up in
    the middle of the night with the distinct impression that I was being
    bitten by something.  I turned on the light, searched everywhere.
    Nothing.  Back to sleep, thinking it was my imagination.  Happened
    again.  Under a fluorescent light (small portable camping light) I
    could see faint movement.  I followed it to the window...bird mites!
    You really can't see them unless you get your face right down, and with
    the right light.  So, out went the birdnest (luckily there weren't any
    eggs or little birdies in there, so my conscience was soothed) and in
    came a major fumigation with RAID.  They were smaller than, hmmm, let's
    see, what's that small? About 1/4 the size of . and I only spotted them
    because my sheets are white and they were in a very soldierly line.  

    
    
      We have an interesting problem around our house.  We live in a split-
    level.  We have an entry door off the drive-way at cellar (ground)
    level, there is a single car garage next to this door.  Our problem is
    like Arachnidphopia (sp?).  All over the exterior wall (white vinyl
    sideing) are spidder webs with various types of these critters.  This
    south of the house faces west.  My wife cleans the area almost daily
    with a broom.  However, early evening/night the webs and spidders
    are back.  
    
    Has anyone had or seen this problem?  And if so what is a safe way to
    rid us of these?  I know spidders are useful and more important I need
    something safe as my wife runs a day care out of our house.
    
    Any an all suggestions welcome!
    
    Thanks!
    
    Bob Montville
    DESG::Montville
    234-4974
    

    
    what's a spidder?
    
    thanks...
    
    Gary

There are sprays you can apply that will kill off the spiders, but if there
are so many of them there, they must be finding a lot to eat.  You may want
to attack the supply problem, which is likely more serious.  The sprays
only work for a while, however.

As you apparently know, the spiders are beneficial.

					Steve

    > What's a spidder?
    
    A spider that lives in my house.
    
    Edd

    Edd
    I have a lot of spidders in celler myself.  Seeing I burn
    wood and it looks like builder supply down there, makes it
    a nice place for them to make a home(s).  I'll take a saturday
    and let off some spray bombs and leave for the day.  The next
    day I'll run the shopvac around and clean things up.  Seems to
    work good for a year.
    
    JD
    

    why bother with the bug bomb...
    When I ShopVac'ed spiders, they don't seem to survive the impact
    against the horizontal baffle in the can.
    
    	Dave.

    
    Dave,
    If you bring in wood for the winter.  You also bring
    in other "things" that have made their home over the
    summer months in the wood pile.  So the BB does more
    than kill spiders.....
    
    JD

    I rented one side of a duplex once that had a lot of spiders in the basement
    which looked like it hadn't been cleaned since the place was built.  I
    wanted to put my shop down there so I cleaned everything up and soon 
    I started noticing centipedes instead of spiders.  I preferred the spiders 
    and left them alone from then on.
    
    George

Not sure if anyone has addressed the question in the base note.  The question
was if anyone else was getting rid of spidders only to have them return the
next day.  I would pose the question, "Is the wall in question lit at night?"
If so, that's what's causing your problem.  You're attracting bugs and they
are attracting spiders. 

Would a yellow bulb reduce the number of flying insects?  Isn't that why they
sell those things? I'm too cheap to leave lights on at night so don't have
this problem.  ;-)

	    I use the shop vac to get rid of them, too.  Breaking the webs
	up with a broom doesn't get the spiders that scurry off to hide in
	their secret crevices.  It's got to be frustrating as all heck for
	the spiders, though, rebuilding those webs every day after day.

					Tim

    I think the yellow bulbs, if not totally a matter of religious faith,
    are less attractive to bugs than white incandescents.  That is, the
    whites attract more, the yellows do not repel.
    
    Down south people put a wad of cotton wool on their screen doors to, in
    some way, baffle flies.
    

    We bought one of those yellow bulbs for an outside light and it didn't
    seem to make any difference.  There may be fewer bugs but not noticably
    so and they still get in the house when you open the door.
    
    							John

    Wether you destroy spider webs or not - I believe most, if not all
    species of spiders rebuild their webs each day.
    
    ....as for yellow versus white bulbs....I noticed a slight difference
    in the amount of bugs - mostly less moths than bugs really.
    
    Joyce

    The spidder on our front porch is lazy.  It isn't rebuilding once a
    day.  But I'm also not getting rid of its existing web.  Looks kind
    of pretty with the dew on it.  It's fun to feed random bugs to it --
    cheap entertainment for the kids...

     RE: .1

     I think a "spidder" is a New England species of arachnid.  Fortunately,
they can't get here from there.

     RE: Spiders

     I prefer to manage my spiders rather than eliminate them.  If the webs 
are in areas where people often go, the webs are removed frequently.  If they
are in out-of-the-way areas, I just keep them from getting too large.  I never
bother the spiders on the bushes and fruit trees.  They have special diplomatic
immunity from the shop-vac.

                                        Greg

According to TERMINEX, spiders are a sign there is a supply of ants around.
Many spiders means many ants.  The theory held true for me.  I had to have
treatment for carpenter ants - right away!

    
    Did YOU see any carpenter ants? Or did TERMINEX tell you they were
    there? ;-)
    
    Steve

    	Unless I've got my ants confused, carpenter ants only go after
    rotten wood. Terminex can only treat the symptom. A cure would require
    a carpenter to find, remove, and replace the source or the rotten wood
    (unless of course you had a rotten wood pile nearby.)
    
    	Ray 

    Carpenter ants are actually looking for water AND a place to burrow to
    make a nest. It's only coincidental that rotten wood satisfies both of
    these conditions.
    
    I've had them nest in a piece of wet insulation.
    
    Edd

    
    Back in the spring the power'n tel. co.s were adding poles and
    wires on my street to a new development. They had cut a section
    off a big oak at the roads edge in front of my property. 
    
    Sunday I put these almost 2' in diameter pieces on the splitter.
    One piece, as I was rolling and bouncing it along the ground,
    had carpenter ants comming out of little holes they had evidently
    burrowed.  4 or 5 seperate holes probably 2 to 4" apart and almost
    in line down one crevasse of the bark.  
    
    I split it in a way to expose where they were nesting. There was no
    hole in the trunk visible from the sawed ends.  They chewed thier
    way in and area which evidently was on the ground and kept moist
    and soft and made an area inside a little over a foot long, maybe
    3" wide and 1/2" thick.  The chewed out area was all black.
    
    Don't know how many there were, and not having any antkiller left
    I tried the flea killer we have for the cats.  Slower, but IT WORKS!
    
    And this wood was alive in the spring too.
    
    Fred

   > At the widest 
   > point of the nest, there was less than one inch of tree between the 
   > bark and the nest. In spite of this the tree was still alive and 
   > growing leaves.


If I remember correctly, the outer inch or so of the trunk is the only part 
that is really alive.

Clay

>If I remember correctly, the outer inch or so of the trunk is the only part 
>that is really alive.

and mechanically, the part that provides most of the strength.  -ced

Folks,
We just moved into a place where the previous owner had cat(s?). After we started
cleaning up, my bitter half started reporting red bite marks around ankles.
Then we disconvered there were fleas in the house? The bitter half has declared
all-out war and plans to get in professionals to do the job.
The local guy says they will do a one-time job guaranteed for 3 months at $165
The big national chain people want to come over, do a survey, charge us $135 up
front and $35 for a monthly contract. 
With my limited resources, I am trying to get the best bang for my buck. 
So...
Is the local guy better or the big guy?
Is there a guaranteed DIY solution which I can use without extreme damage to self
Is there any alternative to bombing that is sure to work?
If yes, where can I find such chemicals? I am close to Home depot and Sears.
Thanks in advance for any advice,
Vijay

    I used to have a cat that went outside and spent lots of time under the
    house.  Without fail, come fall, she'd get fleas.  They never seemed to
    infest the house, but once we took the cat to the vet to get dipped,
    we'd also bomb the house, just to be sure.  The bombs are easy to use,
    and safe.  I don't know what's in them, but they are meant to be used
    in homes.  You just have to stay away from the house for an hour or
    two.  I'd definately go that route before calling in a professional.
    
    Sue Rasmussen

    I thought there were some news items on TV in the past about some
    people using these home bug bombs and having their house burn down.
    The "gotcha" for them was their insurance company wouldn't pay off
    the claim as it felt that the occupant deliberately set the fire.
    I think the houses ended up being really "bombed out"!  Did anyone
    else see this program snipit?  If using the purchased bombs myself,
    I would monitor all areas of open flame carefully to shut them down
    before setting off the "bomb" and leaving the house.

    justme....jacqui

    
      Sue is right. I've used the bombs before, once after I bought a house
    that had a *severe* flea infestation. They work perfectly and are
    indeed safe enough. Follow the directions and make sure you have any
    animals you may own 'dipped' at the same time. It is *possible* that
    you'll need to bomb twice, to take out fleas that hatch from eggs in
    carpets, etc. after the first bombing. In any case, it works and it
    will be far cheaper than any pro. Just make sure you use enough to do
    all the spaces in your house at once.
    
    					Kenny

    I also found out that an application to the backyard with a flea
    sprayer for yards has helped.
    
    My wife and I walked into the same situation two months back.  Fleas
    everywhere.  We first tried to bug bomb alone.  That was no where.
    
    We then flea dipped the dogs and cat, and bombed on room using an ortho
    product.  (This was the bedroom which was our biggest problem, we tried
    the water/soap/light test and hauled in 73 fleas in a day)
    
    We also used the flea carpet stuff.  We are going to dip the animals
    once more and use the Ortho stuff all over since it ended a flea prob
    in the bedroom.  (It is the type of spray that prevents the larva to
    mature into adults as well as killing eggs/pupa/adults, it worked
    great)
    
    Good stuff.  It still ran us around 70 bucks after the many attempts...
    
    

    re .8
    If you follow the suggestions in .9 thru .12, your "bitter half" may
    become your "better half"
    
    Sorry. Couldn't resist.
    

    Re: .10
    
    There is no flame associated with the bombs I've used.  Purely
    chemical.  I think all you do is remove the cover, place bomb in the
    middle of a room, and leave.  Within a few moments, the can begins to
    spray the chemical up into the air.
    
    Sue Rasmussen
    

    As .10 mentioned the T.V. program 60 Minutes showed the aerosol can
    on a kitchen table spraying the chemical into the air.  Apparently,
    some chemical in the concentration of fumes would ignite under 
    certain conditions.  After seeing the program, I'd never use it
    in my house.

    I've used them plenty of times with no problem. We do the same thing as
    mentioned previously: we give our dog a flea-shampoo and dry her off
    and immediately take her out of the house. I have a split so I buy two
    bombs - one for each floor. I set them off and leave for a couple of
    hours. When we get back, throw the cans away and no more fleas!
    
    We have a gas-fired waterheater and gas furnace and have never had a
    problem. If I wanted to boost ratings for a show - I could easily set
    up a scenario where anything can be shown to be dangerous. Those shows
    have no credibility as far as I'm concerned. 
    
    Wanna see the exploding baloney-and-cheese sandwich sometime? 8-)

Most aerosols these days use flammable propellants like butane.  They used
to use non-flammable CFCs.

    
    I saw that show and believe it has merit. Unlike the GM scam where they
    rigged their test to ensure results, these house that burned down were
    reported after the fact. I believe it had to do with when the gas
    furnace fired up. To the people who say they have gas power and have
    used the bug bombs I say was you house configured, vented, insulated,
    heated and any number of other variables, the same as the ones reported?

    Instead of having a company like Flea Busters come out and charge
    $165. Just do what they do yourself and save about $160.
    
    The following approach has been verified by two vets, Flea Busters, 
    and two dog breeders...
    
    - Buy a one pound can of 100% boric acid powder.
      It sells at most hardware stores as roach killer 
      (such as "Roach Pruf", costs under $5). 
    
    Since you haven't moved in yet, the job will be easy.
    
    - Get yourself a push broom (we used this as an excuse 
      to buy a new one).
    
    - Vacuum all carpet and floor areas well.
    
    - Sprinkle liberally, the boric acid powder throughout 
      the house (floors. tile, carpet, garage, basement,
      porch area, whatever makes sense)
    
    - Take push broom and with short, quick strokes, work
      the powder into the carpet and floor cracks.
      This will be relatively easy because the powder is
      very fine.
    
    - Bomb.
    
    - Move in.
    
    
    The way boric acid works is by dehydrating the environment
    enough to cause the flea eggs to crack before maturity, thus
    breaking the reproductive cycle. It's best to spray in conjunction
    with the powder because it speeds up the results but it's not
    really necessary.  I would spray the yard, garage, basement,
    house and anything else that makes sense.
    
    We did this two years ago when we adopted a dog that was 
    infested with fleas.  My daugther is highly suseptible to
    flea bites and terrible itching so it was imperative to
    get rid of the fleas for the long term.  We haven't seen a
    flea in over 18 months.  And we live in California where 
    it's flea season all year long. 
    
    By the way, boric acid is considered harmless to humans and
    pets and will not harm the carpet but will kill other vermin
    like roaches and ants. Not a bad deal for $5 and a little time.
    
    Jodi-

    RE: Bug bombs and Fire Hazard
    
    I saw this show too. 
    
    The problem is that evidently most of these bug bombs do have a
    flammable propellent, and its not well marked on the label.
    
    The problem is compounded as you need to seal the area being bombed.
    
    The situation to be aware of is if:
    	- you are bombing a kitchen with a gas range with pilots
    	- or an area with any pilots or open gas flames.
    	  (eg: furnaces or HW heaters)
    
    Also, it may have been in the cases reviewed that the fires happened
    because they used more than one can (more is better NOT!)
    Increasing the "dosage" increases your risk of flamability.
    
    Personally I've bombed bedrooms several times and there are no flame
    risks there.  If I had an insect problem in the kitchen or basement
    I'd either extinguish all flames and potential flames (eg: shut down
    any thing that may turn on automatically). or use hand-applied sprays.
    
    	Dave.

    
    Regarding the "safety" of bombing. Note also that the use of flea
    bombs during pregnancy has been linked with severe birth defects.
    If you do choose to go the bombing route, pay strict attention to 
    the instructions (e.g. that part that says trigger the bombs, leave
    the house, when you come back open all windows and leave them open 
    for [up to] a few hours). Don't skimp on the ventilation afterwards
    to save your heating bill.
    
    Also be aware that most bombing systems require a second treatment in
    2-3 weeks due to the cycle of maturity in the fleas.
    
    I believe "Flea Busters" uses the boric acid approach which is
    considered virtually harmless to humans and pets.
    
    I suggest reading the DOGS::CANINE conference where there are reams 
    of info from people with plenty of experience. ;-)  
    
    
    	    							- Mac							 
                                                                     

Folks,
So does this mean that we should shut the furnace down altogether? There is a 
door to the furnace room which I can shut. I would like to bomb the basement too
but if it is going to create a fire hazard, I would prefer a house with fleas
to a house in flames!!!
So can I leave that room closed and expect minimal/no hazard?
Is there any more protection I should try?
Will the bomb affect boxes which we have moved into the house?
I was told to use the Zodiac name bomb. Hope this works? If you don't hear any
updates, it means I bombed out!!!!
Thanks for all the advice.
Next stop - chimney cleaning ;-)
Vijay

    Gee, I guess I was lucky when I bombed our house. The next time we
    bomb, I'll check the propellant and try to get one that is
    non-flammable. The Pet Warehouse has a good variety of bombs so if
    there is one out there that's not flammable, I'll bet they have it.
    
    You'd think that the manufacturer's of these bombs might have figured
    that there would be a significant portion of their customer base that
    has gas heat/hot water and that using butane as a propellant is
    probably NOT the best idea. No wonder this country is so litigious!

    It's not so much that you were "lucky" (even though you were).
    
    The manufacturers have studied the propellant density for a typical
    room, and concluded that it's "relatively safe".  It probably passes
    some fire safety tests too.
    
    The problem is these tests are made under controlled condtions and
    "in the field" things happen.
    
    One of the cases in particular, the owner used 2 cans instead of one and
    that probably raised the density enough to create a flash hazard.
    
    The _real_ kicker was that the Fire Department could show that the bug
    bombs were the cause of the fire, and the owners found themselves locked
    in a legal battle with their insurance company over arson!
    
    I'd rather be safe than sorry.
    
    	Dave.

    
      It is not the propellant that is flammable, it is the vehicle for the
    poison. As in most insect sprays, its a petroleum base - smells like
    kerosene to me.
    
      If you get *just* the right concentration of vapor in the air *and*
    you have a spark or a pilot light, it WILL ignite. But you need a very
    certain level of concentration in the air.
    
    				Kenny

    What is the water/soap/light test???

It worked!!!
I bombed out the place with a couple of bombs from the local AGWAY store. The
can says how many you can use for the place based on square footage and cubic
footage. Spent 4 hours chewing my nails wondering if there would be a house when
I went back. The furnace had been left on, but the furnace room had been closed.
The house is still there. The fleas have left/died. Life is almost OK.

Re. .-1 The soap/water/lamp thing is quite interesting. Its described in a 
previous note somewhere. (see 1111.74 and check notes on fleas). It attracts 
fleas and they basically drown in the soap water placed close to the lamp. But
for serious flea business, this bomb seems to be a better alternative. Stores
also carry flea "traps", which are lights with a card to which fleas stick. You
also get replacement cards. I think it is a hybrid of fly paper and the lamp
with soap water, but this is just my theory. I saw it while shopping for bombs.
Thanks all for the advice and help.
Vijay

     I have a plague of silverfish invading my home. Seems like they live
    in the attic crawl space and, when it's been real hot recently, they
    descend into my living areas. Is there any way to kill them short
    of fumigating the entire house? Silverfish traps? Any one know about
    the "little white packets" mentioned in an earlier note in this string?
    
            Thanks,
            Dave
     
    
            

    
      If you don't want to spray anything, try "diatomaceous earth" which
    I believe is ground up coral or something. The razor edges cut their
    soft bodies.  Most garden supply catalogs (possibly garden centers)
    have it. You sprinkle it around the perimeter of the room/carpet, they
    seem to like the edges and cracks. It can also be used outside in the
    garden for slugs, etc...
    
      I may be giving it a try shortly myself if my roof repairs don't
    remedy it. I only get an ocassional one though.
    
            Mark

    Diatomaceous earth ?? Thats the stuff in half the pool filters around.
    You can buy it anywhere they sell pool supplies. I cannot remember
    exactly what it is but it does not feel sharp in anyway. Very
    soft powder but excellent filter media for those D type filters.
    
    Just curious ?

    Yes, Diatomaceous earth.  But don't use what they sell for pool
    filters, it's been processed differently and doesn't have the sharp
    edges (which are really too small to feel by humans, but the bugs
    get torn apart by them).
    
    				Steve

    
    
      Anybody have any trouble sleeping with all of these "Sacada" SP?
    Katty dids bugs around? Im sure there is nothing you can do other
    than close your window and sweat or condition the air. Man, I havn't
    had a good sleep for weeks!!!  Has anyone been going through the same
    thing?
    
    WDL

Cicadas - no, there's nothing you can do.  I don't find them bothersome, though.
(A crazy robin which stayed up half the night squawking for several nights
in a row, though, was something else...)

Try some sort of "white noise" to drown them out.  A fan works well (if you
don't have AC), or you can buy small noise generators (Radio Shack has 'em)
that will mask the noises.

				Steve

	Geeze... you folks would love my house!  We have a pond directly
	behind the house and it is LOUD at night.  Doesn't bother me though.

	I also grew up on a lake and the shore was very close to my
	bedroom window.  I used to fall asleep to the lapping of waves
	on the shore... very relaxing!

	Karen

	I have a hard time sleeping if it's too quiet! Give me cicadas over
	dead silence any time...

	Roy

    
           O.K. Roy,
                      We have an Infestation of them, I will catch >100
      and have them forwarded to your pole.
    
    
    WDL  :)

    
    There's a two-pound cricket hiding in my basement.
    
    Anybody know of they make good house pets?
    

    
    Where are you and SUBPAC?
    
    Many moons ago, when I was growing up in New Jersey (please, no 'What
    exit?' jokes), there was a huge infestation of cicadas, which were
    also called '17-year locusts' (I have no idea whether that apellation
    is correct).
    
    The density of bugs was much greater than, say, any of the gypsy
    caterpillar infestations we've had in NH in the past 15 years. The
    noise from the cicadas was _deafening_ -- you had to shout to converse
    when you were in the woods among them. Then they departed, leaving neat
    little empty carapaces behind.
    
    JP

    
         We are in Central Mass, Worcester County...I set up a tent for my
     son and his cousin. They were all set with popcorn and drink in hand,
     since it was so close to the house I even put his television in the 
    tent with them. About 15 minutes after they shut the TV off they could
    not stand the noise. They came through the door dragging their sleeping
    bags behind them saying the stinken bugs were driving them crazy. 
    
     Its sorta funny in a way but gets old quickly.
    
    WDL

Re: .5

No, crickets can be incredibly destructive inside a house.  If you want to
keep it in a jar, that's fine.

				Steve

How are crickets destructive?

    re "17-year locusts"
    
    I've heard that term used to describe them.  I can't remember if it's
    in reference to the long time that they spend in the larval form in the
    soil.

re: Gerald

Crickets will eat/chew fabrics and paper products.

-Jack

    I have looked thru the topics in this file but have not found any
    info on fruit fly extermination. Here is my problem:
    
    Last week, we went away for about 4 days, unintentionally leaving an
    open pint of blueberries on the kitchen counter. When we returned,
    we had a fruit fly infestation. We promptly got rid of the offending
    berries and sprayed the heck out of the kitchen. A few hours later,
    we swept up the hundreds of dead fruit fly bodies and got rid of
    them, assuming our problem was solved.
    
    WRONG!! By Saturday, even tho we had rid the kitchen of every
    vegetable (potatoes, onions) and fruit known to man, the little
    suckers were back with a vengeance. So, I stripped the cabinets,
    washed them all with a good disinfectant, threw away any open boxes
    of food, re-sprayed, re-washed and re-stocked and it looked for
    a while like the problem was solved. NOT!! Every day we get more
    of the little suckers and I can't tell what is attracting them.
    
    Anyone have any ideas for finally ridding ourselves of these pests???
    They don't bite but they sure are annoying since they just love to
    dive bomb past your face!!!!
    
    Thanks for any help.
    
    Nancy

    The reason you keep having re-infestations is simple biology.  Fruit
    flys reproduce easily and rapidly.  Until you kill all the eggs, you
    will keep having new generations.  ;*)   

    Call in a local lab and tell them they can have all the fruit flys 
    they want BUT THEY HAVE TO PICK THEM UP!

    Seriously, just leave everything out of your kitchen and keep spraying
    morning, noon, and night!

    justme....jacqui

    I saw something in a catalog that was a sticky-surface device that
    exuded a pheremone to attract kitchen-infesting insects. Not sure
    how wide-range it is; it was in one of the garden catalogs, so maybe
    a large gardening outlet might carry something like it.

    We ran into something like this last year only with us, it was bananas
    on top of the refrigerator. They drove us nuts for about a week before
    I found that they were living out of the plant my wife keeps in the
    kitchen. I moved the plant outside for a couple of days and no more
    fruit flies!
    
    p.s. we used to use fruit flies (drosophila melanogaster) in genetics
    class back in college. They create a new generation every 8 hours which
    is great for tracking genetic trends but will drive you nuts in the
    home.
    
    Hope this helps.

    That is an interesting statement <<.15>>>.  I was going to start using 
    the Diatomaceous earth for controlling ants in the future.  (I've been
    using Diazinon for the past 8 years).  PK's sells Diatomaceous earth
    for exactly this reason.  Because Diazinon kills so many other things 
    that I do no really want to kill, such as worms, I thought I would give 
    the Diatomaceous earth a try.  But after looking at the price/quantity,
    I thought buying the earth thru a seasonal store where they sell if for
    pool filters would be the best bet.  Are you positive that the pool 
    earth is substantially different, or possibly just not quite as
    effective ?
    

Re: .16

Yes, it's different.  The pool-filter stuff is heat-processed and often has
other chemicals added to it.  It isn't effective against insects.

					Steve

    Does anyone else have a snow storm of moths in the Kitchen??? Or are
    they  they moths?  Ab
    
    Any suggestions?

Might be.  How big, what color?  Where do you find them?  They could be
"pantry pest moths" which get into containers of grain-based products.
Any holes in boxes in the cupboard?

					Steve

    We have them too.  They appear to be what I call "grain moths".  A few
    years ago we had them and I was able to find "traps" in the local
    hardware store.  The traps were made by the same people that make the
    Japaneese Beetle and Gypsy Moth traps.  This year I have not had any
    luck in finding the traps.  We have resorted to old-fashioned fly-paper
    strips.  Very unsightly but appears to work.

    
    There were some in our place when we moved in a few years back.
    About .25 inch long, delta wings, mostly light brown with a dark brown
    stripe on the wing.
    
    We just threw away all opened cereal products, emptied the cupboards
    and cleaned them out thoroughly. Also washed all containers in hot
    water as there were some egg sacs on the outside of glass containers.
    
    (I also sprayed a little bug killer in each empty cabinet before
    cleaning, although I wouldn't recommend it.)
    
    It's been several years and no reoccurrence.
    
    Colin
           
    

The traps are available lots of places - I've seen them in numerous stores,
or you can order them from Gardens Alive.

				Steve

    They are ALWAYS in the bird seed I have for the feeders.  I found that
    I used a sealed container they still end up flying around.  
    
    They are a pain but seem harmless.  The cat loves them.
    
    M
    

They're not harmless - they'll eat your food.

			Steve

    
    Or worse, if you don't chuck the boxes you'll eat their larvae.

A little extra protein, that's all...

    We have silverfish really bad.  We live in a condo, and our neighbors
    on either side have them too.  We don't know who got them first.
    
    The condo association has had a pest control service in twice but it
    hasn't helped at all.  I called a couple pest control services, and I
    get different stories each time.  Some say they like it wet, some say
    warm and dry.
    
    There are some patterns to these things, but I can't tell what.  
    
    First off, I would really like to understand the problem better.  Where
    can I find some factual information about these critters, their likes
    and dislikes, how to proof your home against them, and how to eliminate
    them once you get them?
    
    Secondly, can anyone recommend "home remedies"?  I had considered doing
    a bug-bomb in the attic, since they mostly seem to be on the walls and
    ceilings of the second floor, but I wasn't sure if that would really
    help.  Besides that, I would like to follow up with something to keep
    them out if we got to the trouble of ripping up all the insulation to
    do the bomb.
    
    One thing I have noticed.  We have really bad bug problems.  That is,
    spiders, crickets, some kind of beetle that takes a hammer to squish -
    the list goes on. These damn things parade through our place all year
    round.  We obviously have, to bugs anyway, giant entrances that say
    "welcome".  I have insulated all the outlets and light fixtures, and we
    keep plug covers in the unused outlets.  I have caulked or siliconed
    all around the doors and sills, but still they come.  Our place is on a
    slab.  I've never lived on a slab before, and likewise, Ive never had
    bug problems like this before.  Is this just the nature of being "next
    to the ground", or is there something that can be done to seal our unit
    up better?
    
    Any and all advice appreciated (my wife if flipping OUT!  We killed
    TWELVE silverfish the other night!).
    
    Jim
    

    Check with your county extension service, often part of the state
    university system. They will often have entomologists on staff and they
    frequently have brochures that describe the critters, their habitat,
    their likes and dislikes, the most effective remedies, and references.
    Your taxes already paid for it, so it is a cheap yet effective source
    of info.

    The exterminator that tried (but failed) to conquer our infestation
    used boric acid. I was told it is available in drug stores (in the eye
    section), and have checked several stores to no avail.  Besides that, I
    have a feeling that otic quality boric acid will come in small
    containers and be expensive.  
    
    Where can I get large amounts of boric acid, inexpensively?
    
    And while I'm here, I've seen boric acid in a powder form as well as
    liquid.  I wasn't home when the exterminator did his thing.  Is the
    correct method to spray the liquid form, or to sprinkle powder?  Or
    both?
    
    Jim
    

Boric acid powder is a common cockroach pesticide.  Try the pesticide section
of home-center type stores.

    I got a nice big bottle from Walgreen's. It was fairly inexpensive
    (coupla bucks).

    Any pharmacy should have it pretty cheap...  Mark

I was just wondering whether or not another common boron compound - borax -
would be as effective? I know it's used extensively for both ants and roaches.
I'll bet it's a whole lot cheaper (from the laundry supply section at the
supermarket.) For crawlies, you simply dissolve as much as will dissolve
in any sweet syrup and leave it out for them to feed on. It not only kills
them, but they take it back to the colony where it kills others.

    Ineteresting.  I wonder if Silverfish need to consume the boric acid,
    or if they just need to be exposed to it?
    
    I have noticed that they will very obviously feast on the remains of
    their fallen comrades (the exterminator warned us about this).  That
    is, if I squish one on the wall and leave a stain (I try not to,
    but...) then others will return to the stain, even days later.  There
    couldn't be much there, but they obviously can find it and somehoe use
    it.
    
    So, if they need to eat the boric acid, then simply spraying it around
    wouldn't be enough.  The spray would have to contain something they
    considered edible.
    
    This is beginning to sound out of DIY league, at least for a real
    novice like myself.
    
    Jim
    

I have seen boric acid at supermarkets such as Purity Supreme, for a few
bucks for a 1 lb container.  Believe you just put in areas where they will
run through it.  I think Roach Prufe roach powder is also essentially boric
acid as well.

-Mike

I've read that boric acid gets under the shell (?) of roaches.  Boric acid
is a fine powder like talc.  Borax consists of much larger lumps or crystals,
so I suspect it doesn't work the same way.

    If there had been anything worth eating in Death Valley, roaches would
    have adapted to that too.
    
    ed

    Mix a little confectioners sugar in with the boric acid and they'll eat
    them both at the same time.

Silverfish
  Silverfish normally live outdoors under rocks, bark and leaf  
mold, in the nests of birds and animals or in ant and termite  
nests.  However, many do occur in homes and are considered a pest  
and a nuisance to the homeowner.
  Silverfish are not often seen by homeowners because of their  
night time activity habit and their swift running speed.   
Occasionally, they are found in bathtubs or sinks.  They crawl in  
seeking food or moisture and can't climb out.  These insects  
prefer vegetable matter with a high carbohydrate and protein  
content.  In the house, silverfish can feed on almost anything.   
A partial list includes flour, starch, paper, glue, cotton,  
linen, rayon, silk, sugar and breakfast cereals.  They can go for  
up to one year without food, so sanitation alone will not  
eliminate an infestation, although it may prevent new ones from  
starting.
  Adults lay eggs in small groups containing a few to fifty eggs.   
The eggs are very small and deposited in cracks and crevices.  A  
female normally lays less than 100 eggs during her lifespan of  
two to eight years.  Under ideal conditions, the eggs hatch in  
two weeks, but may take up to two months to hatch.
  Young nymphs are very much like the adults except smaller in  
size.  Several years are required before they are mature.   
Populations do not build up rapidly because of their slow  
development rate and the small number of eggs laid.  A large  
infestation usually means the house has been infested for some  
time.
  Spot spraying with residual insecticides, such as Diazinon,  
Dursban and Malathion will help control these insects.  Spray  
areas under the sink or along the baseboards.  Follow all label  
directions and precautions.  Routine cleaning and vacuuming will  
help control or reduce silverfish populations.  Place moth  
crystals in boxes in the attic or storage room where old papers,  
books, clothes or other material are stored.

For any of you bug-knowledgeable types - Can you help identify this bug...

Here in Mass. - Maynard area.

Looking at my neighbors pine trees, one notices black "blobs" on the north side
of the trunk.  These blobs can range from 3" diameter blobs to vertical strips
about 3" wide by 5 ft high (so far).  10's of blobs per tree.

On closer inspection, one notices that these blobs are colonies of bugs.  Each
bug about 1/4" long, antennae about 3/8 inch, dull black wings with faint
whitish veins folded back over body in a tent like fashion.  The thin, bulbous
body appears to have fine black and white lateral stripes.  In the colony, one
notices an occasional albino, and a few wing-less variants.

There seem to be thousands per colony.
They seem to reside on the pine bark surface - primarily on the north side.
I did notice a couple of blobs on the south side, but in areas of perpetual
shade.

This is the first year that I have noticed these.

What is it?
What do they do / eat? - Anything damaging (to us, house, gardens, property)?
Any known natural predators?  Birds do not appear interested in them.
Any other information?

Thanks,
Rick

Your local nursery should be able to answer (or let you look at their copy
of the Ortho Answer Book).

    I had them on my tree.  McLay's nursery said they were "mites" and to
    spray them with melathion (not sure of correct spelling). 
    It worked.
                                                       
    
                           

    malathion

Hi,

I abhor roaches.  I had a really bad experience with a true
infestation when I was in college, and the sight of a roach now
literally turns my stomach.  If I were to discover them in my home, I
would exterminate everything and move.  That's how much I hate them. 
I'm in New Hampshire, by the way. 

A friend of mine who visits once in a while from Pennsylvania will
soon be moving to a studio apartment in Manhattan.  She's very
cavalier about the roach thing, saying, "Oh, all those places have
roaches, but they (the landlords) keep them under control."  I told
her about my disgust for roaches and was just barely able to convince
her to *really* look for them in the apartment (under rugs, near
drains, in dark areas, &c) without feeling as though I was being a
royal pain.  Actually, I feel she was not "valuing my differences,"
shall we say, but that's another matter for another notes conference. 

I have every reason to believe she will bring roaches to my place the
next time she visits, whether she intends to or not.  I just feel it 
in my gut.  The blender story and the videodisk-player story were
enlightening, and I realize now that there are all kinds of ways for a
roach to conceal itself or its egg on its ride to a new and
previously-uninfested home.  A makeup kit.  A pocketbook.  A shoe. A
suitcase or overnight bag.  Right? 

I am on the verge of telling her she is no longer welcome to visit
because of the probability that she will bring at least one roach or
roach egg with her at some time in the future.   Purely from the
perspective of possible "roach relocation" (not from the human-
relations standpoint), do you think this would be a wise choice?

Thanks in advance.

    Re: .53
    
    Roaches are truly disgusting to most all of us who aren't zoology 
    researchers.  Your phobia is shared by many.  My 9 year old has an
    unexplainable fear of spiders, even the little household ones.  It's 
    unclear where she gets it, as my wife & I find the creatures ok - but 
    somewhat lacking in esthetic beauty.
    
    Your evaluation of possibly estranging a (presumably) good friend, due to 
    fear of a (somewhat remote) possible transmission of her local roach crop 
    seems to indicate a need for you to, IMHO, seek the services of a
    counselor.  Please don't take that negatively, or as an indication of
    anything other than a well meaning suggestion.  
    
    You obviously had a horrible experience in college.  Perhaps a counselor 
    could minimize the disgust level to not having to jeapardize a friendship 
    or require moving from an otherwise good (after extermination) home.  I 
    truly mean this only in the sense that some otherwise strong & positive 
    people go to desensitization sessions for things like exceptional fear of 
    flying, heights (my wife & bridges - it worked), etc.  It wouldn't cost 
    much, and might make you less stressed on this issue. 

    
    Having spent my formative years in the Bronx, I share a strong
    revulsion of roaches. (You haven't lived until you've walked into a dark
    kitchen in the middle of the night, and waited for faint scuttling
    sounds to stop before flicking on the light.)
    
    My experiences, both then and since then, tell me that if you live in
    your own, relatively clean home, you can eradicate a roach population
    fairly easily with off-the-shelf products. You cannot keep them out, no
    matter how hard you try, but their appearance is relatively rare and
    easily solved. I would not sacrifice a friendship to this cause. There is
    a higher probability that you will bring one home some day from the
    grocery store (my last sighting).
    
    The level of intractability of a roach infestation is proportional to
    population density. In a city highrise, you don't have a prayer
    of killing them completely; they just move from one apartment to
    another.
    

Hi again,

Thank you for the responses so far, but let me re-state the original 
question -- I am concerned only with the possibility of migration, not with 
therapy or fumigation or other matters:

2601.53> Purely from the
2601.53> perspective of possible "roach relocation" (not from the human-
2601.53> relations standpoint), do you think this would be a wise choice?

Thanks again, and keep 'em coming!  (The replies, not the roaches.)  :-)

    I look at roaches as more of a pain in the butt than anything else. My
    wife on the other hand, would have a cow if she every saw one in the
    house.
    
    Trouble is, they're sneaky little things. They can be around along time
    before you ever get a glimps of one. That's probably why they say that
    if you see one, COUNT on having many more.
    
    Anyway, the point I'm trying to make here is that if you think about
    all the possible places YOU could come in contact with a roach egg and
    bring it home without ever knowing it, you'd probably never leave the
    house again. Plus, like a previous noter suggested, in a clean isolated
    environment (single family house as opposed to appartment building), 
    they're relatively easy to get rid of.
    
    In my opinion, YOU have as much chance of bringing something home as your
    friend does of bringing something to you. I wouldn't ruin a friendship
    over it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

    >A makeup kit.  A pocketbook.  A shoe. A suitcase or overnight bag. 
    >Right? 
    
    	Wrong.  Roaches lay their eggs in nests, not in movable
        things like shoes and pocketbooks.  Your fear is unfounded.

    >I am on the verge of telling her she is no longer welcome to visit
    >because of the probability that she will bring at least one roach or
    >roach egg with her at some time in the future
    
    	The probability is zero.  I lived in New York, and moved to
    	New Hampshire, and NO roaches migrated with me -- and this 
    	includes NONE in boxes, packing material, etc -- much more 
    	likely sites for roach eggs.
    
        If you tell your friend this, then you're allowing your 
        paranoia to interfere with, and perhaps destroy, your 
        friendship.
        
        By the way, if you said something like this to me, I would
        be, to put it mildly, infuriated.

>    	The probability is zero.  I lived in New York, and moved to
>    	New Hampshire, and NO roaches migrated with me -- and this 
>    	includes NONE in boxes, packing material, etc -- much more 
>    	likely sites for roach eggs.

You're extrapolating from your one case to all cases.  I know of two
cases where someone _did_ bring roaches with them when they moved into
a household.  But as others have pointed out, they're easily controlled
in isolation (i.e., a detached single-family house with reasonable
housekeeping).  That may be cold comfort for someone whose aversion to
roaches is so strong.

I also had roaches move with me and some friends from an apartment in Brookline,
MA, to a single family house.  And I even took my bureau outside, took all the
drawers out of it and sprayed every crack and fissure inside it that I could
see.  About 10 roaches came fleeing out of that bureau.

-Chris

    	I went to a zoo in RI last weekend. I'm drawing a blank, but I
    think it was the Roger Williams Zoo. Anyway, they had a display of
    giant cockroaches from Brazil, I think. These things were great...
    about 3-4" long and about 2" wide. The woman with me ran out of the
    building as she felt her skin crawl. Me, I just wanted to jump in there
    with my hiking boots...or else rig up a roach motel the size of a
    shoebox!

    If I have nightmares tonight, it's *your* fault!   ;-)
    

My sister lives in Hawaii, and they put saddles on their cockroaches and give 
rides to small children...

In Hawaii (at least on Kauai), it is not the roaches you worry about.  It is
the hotdog_sized centipedes that you worry about. Really, no hyperbole.

Dave

    Saddled roaches, mega 'pedes...El grosso grande (translation: "I think
    I'll hurl)!
    
    Didn't see any of the monster 'pedes in Kauai, but did see some
    mini-cargo sized Butterflys that looked like they were in radio contact 
    with the mainland.
    
    Bill_reading_notes_while_onhold_with_DECSALE

Anyone know of a way to discourage spiders from coming onto or into a house? 
Are there things that they don't like ... moth balls or something?

I read the earlier notes, and the only suggestion, was "get rid of the
spider-food, get rid of the spider."  Well, there is no obvious source of food
(other than flys and such, which I can't control).

I just bought a house in Hudson, MA, and there are tons of spiders around ...
inside and outside of the house.  I've never seen so much activity.  We get at
least one in our bedroom per night.  All of the eves and some bushes are quite
well-webbed.

I don't so much mind spiders, but they can make the place look run-down.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rob

> Anyone know of a way to discourage spiders from coming onto or into a house? 

    I've heard that they don't like bleach, so you might try
    cleaning/spraying their hangouts, no pun intended ;-), with a
    bleach based cleaning solution.

    Charly

>I read the earlier notes, and the only suggestion, was "get rid of the
>spider-food, get rid of the spider."  Well, there is no obvious source of food
>(other than flys and such, which I can't control).

That's what spiders eat.
"Get rid of the spider food, get rid of the spiders" does apply.
This is not intended to be a snide comment:
Perhaps you need to be thankful of what they ARE eating.

- tom]

    No, your thinking is all wrong! Go the exact opposite of what you
    want to do - Halloween is coming! Get those spiders working overtime
    for that haunted house look!! Put a few gravestone markers on your
    front lawn, tell the neighbors that you're really getting Halloween
    this year in a big way!

    Our first house in Haverhill had more spiders than we cared to have. It
    took 2 years of ritual spider-bombs, vacuuming, and opening up of
    enclosed hiding areas to get the problem under control. First week we
    moved in we vacuumed up in excess of 100 large disgusting spiders. For
    the next two years we would routinely kill another 5-10 per week. 
    
    We got in the routine of buying those fogging bombs and setting 'em off
    once a month which seemed to work. The spiders stayed downstairs for
    the most part so fogging was easy. No small children or food to worry
    about. WHenever we left for an all day trip or an overnight we would
    set a couple of bombs off.
    
    ~jeff

    
    I read somewhere that there are approx. 20 million spiders
    per acre.
    
    Sleep well!

    
    	Tell may wife she didnt see a roach (NOT THE ONE YOU LITE)
    	come out of the bag from K-MART .
    
    		I am now looking at ridding roaches from my place .
    	Am I able to sue K-MART?? I my self have only seen one in the last
    	10 years .
    
    
    					
    
    
    
    
    			

re: .66

"disagree" with what?  There's 65 replies in this string before yours.
What are you talking about?

-Hal


                      <<< Note 2601.66 by SVCVAX::SMITT >>>
                                 -< disagree >-

    
    	Tell may wife she didnt see a roach (NOT THE ONE YOU LITE)
    	come out of the bag from K-MART .
    
    		I am now looking at ridding roaches from my place .
    	Am I able to sue K-MART?? I my self have only seen one in the last
    	10 years .
    
    
    					
    
    
    
    
    			

    sorry 
    
    	I am new to notes .
    
    	re: 2601.67 in regard to 2601.66
    
    	The note I refured to was 2601.58
    
     >I am on the verge of telling her she is no longer welcome to visit
        >because of the probability that she will bring at least one roach
    or
        >roach egg with her at some time in the future
    
            The probability is zero.  I lived in New York, and moved to
            New Hampshire, and NO roaches migrated with me -- and this
            includes NONE in boxes, packing material, etc -- much more
            likely sites for roach eggs.
    
    		I disagreed

 >   I read somewhere that there are approx. 20 million spiders
 >   per acre.
    
 	    And without them, life would likely be much less pleasant...
	because they help limit the insect populations.

					Tim

This will sound like a very bad horror movie...

On Sunday, while working in the garden on the south side of the house, I
noticed a large number (ok, they were swarming) of what appeared to be red
spider mites.  I figured they just hatched in the warmth and were looking for
food.

Yesterday afternoon, my wife arrived home to find the INSIDE of our south wall
and windows covered with these mites.  They're small enough to get through the
screens and, apparently, through small openings in the jambs/sill.  They were
everywhere!  Hours of vacuuming appeared to be successful, but I don't know if
I got them all - they move fast!  If they are mites, my houseplants are in
serious jeopardy.

I have never seen/heard of this.  I called the extension service and they said
to call an exterminator for advice.  Instead of taking their advice, I
immediately entered this note.

Anyone heard of this?

tnx

Chris

Can someone name this bug?  [not Joey or Janie... I mean entomologically
name them...]

There were thousands swarming in the air on one side of the house
for a few hours last evening. About an inch long with a tadpole-shaped
body, and two paddle-like wings, and 6 spider-like legs. Their long
tails were very thin. Many were paired and a-parently (pun intended)
mating. Many were paired in the air, but more than a few would land
on windowsills nearby giving me a good look, not that I was trying
to voyeurize them or anything.

My only worry was that they were looking for nooks and crannies
in the house to lay eggs or something, build nests, raise their brood, etc.
 Determining what kind of insects these were would help in forecasting what might
come next.

When paired in the air, they looked like wasps; but they were not.
Didn't have the bodies of ants/flying ants. When on a windowsill,
they looked like darning needles, but they did not look like
darning needles in the air: flying was more mosquito-like rather
than the hovering-darting-hummingbird-like flying of darning
needles.

Any ideas what these buggers might have been, and/or what they
might have done to the house.

One other note: I noticed them just after the septic tank was pumped...
I don't think there was any connection though since the swarming was
on the opposite side of the house.

It was really bizarre... looking up and seeing literally thousands of
these things.

    Sounds to me like dry wood termites.  They swarm around this time
    of year.  Question is were they swarming out of your house or
    into it.  If swarming out of your house, you may already have a
    large infestation.  You can look for signs yourself, bits of 
    sawdust-type stuff, but they are fairly hard to detect - they 
    often live behind your walls in the 2x4's.  Anyone have any hints
    for detection?  We had them once, went investigating after a swarm,
    removed baseboards to check behind walls and found them.  Had the
    house tented and gased, that gets rid of ALL of them, no matter
    where they're hiding.  Problem is they get back in when they
    swarm the next year ...  but hopefully in small quantities.
    
    Good luck.
    Janice

Carpenter ants are swarming right now - we've seen a bunch of 'em.

			Steve

We have found the absolute best way to get rid of ants is by using the liquid
poison, Revenge. This product is so good I'm sure it's probably  been discussed
in here before.

After putting the poison out (we put it on a piece of wax paper), the ants are
literally fighting themselves to get at it. They apparently bring the food
(poison) back to their nest, feed the colony, and die approx. 2 days later.

It really works and is MUCH easier than spraying.

Chris

    regarding   .477
    
    	there was no mention of color
    
    	if they had a greenish hue to them I would say May flies
    	

    re .480
    
    We just noticed some carpenter ants swarming out from our deck.  We
    bought some spray, but this Revenge stuff sounds better.  Where can I
    find the poison called Revenge?
    
    Thanks.
    
    - Lauri
    

    in response to the previous replies, here is some
    more info on the bug in question that may help in
    narrowing-down what it is:
    
    I've captured one in a jar and can say:
    
    o length of body is 1/2"; head is about 1/8" and
    the remainder 3/8" is the tail.
    
    o diameter of the tail is a pretty uniform 1/16"
    
    o seems to have 6 thin legs (3 right, 3 left) about
    1/4" each; 2 long thread-like hairs protrude from
    rear of tail
    
    o no apparent stinger
    
    o wings: 1/2" long 1/4" wide
    
    o color of body and tail is dark-brown or black;
    tail is made up of about 8 segments, each separated
    by a light tan line
    
    does this perhaps help narrow down what this is any
    better?
    
    thanks!
    
    d
    

I think you captured a May fly. If so, the adult stage that you see
before you is the end of their life. They live 11-29/30 months
underwater, and emerge to fly and mate - and live for about 24 hours in
that stage.

Art

    I second .484.  Because of their VERY short lifespan as adult insects,
    they tend to swarm and hurridly accomplish their business before they 
    expire.
    
    \Lou

    Thanks all! The most recent replies have made a match... its
    a mayfly.
    
    Not knowing much about them, I looked them up in Britannica,
    and today in an Audubon guide to insects.
    
    The specimen I found is most likely a "Small Mayfly", one of many
    families in the order Ephemeroptera. 500 species in North America.
    Characterized by two hind filaments, dark brown, 2-6 abdominal segments
    clear fore wings and very small hind wings. Live their lives in 
    water; emerge to mate and die within one day. They only eat while in the 
    water.
    
    From all this, I now presume the house and its wood to be safe
    and perhaps the only thing I should do is check my gutters for
    stoppages or standing water. The literature mentions that they
    are generally found at stream edges though.
    
    Thanks
    

    I'm looking for some advice on how to get a cricket out of my house.
    I've experienced them in a garage, and have always had success getting 
    rid of them, but this seems to be more difficult in my house.
    
    Last night, at 11pm, the cricket (2 days in the house) started it's
    chirping again.  It was behind the refrigerator.  We moved it, but it 
    was moving along with the refridgerator (can't move it very fast, or lift
    it!).  After another 15 min. in the dark, it was chirping again, and
    near the baseboard heater.  We turned on the lights, moved the kitchen
    table :), took of the front edge of the baseboard heater, and couldn't 
    find anything.
    
    With the kitchen turned upside down (we did roll the refrigerator back), 
    we went to bed.
    
    This morning, we heard it in the livingroom.  So once again we rushed
    to isolate it.  And once again, it ended up under the baseboard heater.
    
    How long will this guy live?  We have house guests coming in 4 weeks,
    and we'd like it out as soon as possible.  I think it'll overpower the
    TV tonight, since now it's in the livingroom! 
    
    Any suggestions appreciated.
    
    Lauren
    
        

    re. 482
    
    Lauri,
    
      Not sure where you live, but if in Central Massachusetts try
    Russels  in Wayland. I found Revenge there this weekend. BTW,
    the active ingredient is Boric acic.
    
    Mike

    Put a little sign near where you hear it that reads
    
    	"Buddy Holly backup singer tryouts tonight! Right outside..."
    

>    How long will this guy live?  We have house guests coming in 4 weeks,
>    and we'd like it out as soon as possible.

I think it's the Chinese who keep crickets as pets.  I assume they live for
quite a while.  They're considered good luck.

>                                               I think it'll overpower the
>    TV tonight, since now it's in the livingroom! 

There's nothing good on, anyway.

    
    Some environmentally benign solutions:
    
    o Lease an iguana. My understanding is that they love crickets, and
      they're easier to locate and remove after the cleanup is done.
    
    o Throw a party for neighborhood tots; 4- to 6-year-olds should do it.
      One of the games: "The first person to capture a live cricket IN THIS
      HOUSE (no sense importing more problems) gets $5 in Fun World
      tokens!" (In the short term, the noise factor of the solution will
      far exceed the noise factor of the problem. Cleanup might also be an
      issue.)
    
    o Attach that long thin nozzle that everything gets stuck in to your
      vacuum. Optionally, tape a Micro-Mag flashlight to the end of the
      nozzle. Wait 'till it's dark and quiet and go cricket-hunting. (Late
      in the season, the cricket may not fit through the nozzle; keep the
      vacuum running, stick the nozzle out a handy window, and shut off the
      machine. If the cricket does fit through the nozzle, remove and
      discard the dust bag immediately, unless you feel the need for an
      audible vacuum-cleaner-locator.)
    
    o Feed it; breed it; sell iguana food.
    

    Also, I think an air shredder would help here. Run it near where the
    cricket is chirping, and the shredded sound waves might set up a
    harmonic distortion that would disorient the cricket (i.e. make him
    forget that crickets are kept as pets in certain parts of the world)
    and cause it to wander about aimlessly. 

    	You can also release another cricket in the house and hope it's the
    opposite sex. It's chirping to attract a mate.
    
    	Ray

    Well, the cricket is gone!  With luck on our side, the cricket just
    decided to hop across the livingroom last night while we were there.  
    The room was well lit so we were very surprised.  
    
    Exposed in the center of the room, it was an easy target for a shoe!
    
    Thanks for all the replies, the funny ones sure helped, too!
    
    Lauren
    

    re .494 re .492

    
    ...whence comes the familiar maxim:
    
        "If all you have is an air shredder, everything
         begins to sound like a cricket."
    

    I haven't read all 496 replies to this note so please excuse me if this
    is a duplicate reply.  I've noticed a couple of "silver fish" lately 
    in my condo.  What causes them, but most important, what should I use to
    get rid of them or prevent more?
    
    Thank you,
    Linda  

    re: .497
    
    Pretty harmless, thank goodness, but not something you want around.
    They will eat paper, like books and stuff.  You can buy little packets
    to put around to kill them.  Probably ask at a decent hardware store.
    

    Thank you!
    

We have been seeing several black ants in the house - mainly in the kitchen
area.  So far, I was under the assumption that they were harmless.  Bought some
Raid bait traps..these didn't work at all!  So got some spray and sprayed it all
under the sink, near the garbage etc...the ants reduced in that area..now I see
them crawling along the ceiling line!  They were all into my cereal box!  So,
threw that one out!

These are black ants - they seem to be getting bigger day by day.  A friend told
me that these are harmless - just sugar ants.  I called an exterminator just to
be sure and he said that all black ants are carpenter ants.  He thinks they have
built a nest somewhere in the house since I am seeing them so regularly.  HE is
coming out to see them this week and give me an estimate on getting rid of them.

So, is this true that all black ants(reasonably big ones!) are carpenter ants? 
Now that they are all inside the house, will spraying the foundation with
Diazanon help ?

If they're black, and bigger than a poppy seed, they're carpenter ants.  
Treatment is fairly cheap, if they haven't caused structural damage.  You can't
buy the strength of pesticide the exterminator uses.  Let them do their job.

				Steve

    What I learned from my recent bout with carpenter ants:
    
    They don't usually cause structural damage, unless the wood is damp or
    they've been around for a long time.
    
    You see them when they are foraging for food.
    
    Baits have limited success with carpenter ants, though there are some
    new ones out that do work to some extent.
    
    Carpenter ants can live in your house, unlike termites which must return
    to the soil.
    
    Carpenter ants don't much care for dry wood; if they are around, you
    either have wet wood in your house or nearby. It's difficult to get rid
    of them permanently without finding that wet wood (this is why you
    NEVER bury wood scraps at a construction site).
    
    ...tom

I've had good success using Combat brand traps for carpenter ants.  The basic
idea of these is that the ants take the stuff back to the nest where the whole
colony feeds on it, and then the colony gets wiped out.  When I bought these
traps in the spring, Home Depot stocked them but were sold out, so I bought them
at Agway.

-Chris

Re. -2:

>Treatment is fairly cheap, if they haven't caused structural damage. 

How much can I expect to pay, if there is no structural damage?
And, assuming we treat it this year, is there any guarantee that we won't have
them back next year?  Or do the exterminators offer a 're-treat' option as a
general rule?  Once we get rid of them this year, would it help to use Diazanon
around the foundation next year, just to keep them away?

Thanks!

    I was recently quoted $150 for treatment.  It is something that needs
    to be done on a yearly basis - most exterminators will offer discounted
    retreatments.
    
    				Steve

I had ant extermination done a couple of years ago and they
treated the outside foundation as well.

be prepared to empty out cabinets and be prepared to stir up
some additional ant activity before they all die.  

As well as treating baseboards and such, the exterminator also
treated a few strategic spots inside walls with small holes
drilled in out of the way places

Most exterminators offer a choice of a one-time application for
$x or a repeats-are-free-for-n-months package for $x+n

    
    	I also had a treatment a few years ago.  At the time the
    exterminator gave me some tips:

    	1)  Buy an insecticide that can be used inside the house.  Spray it
    	    around the inside of the house where the toe plate and
            foundation meet and in any cracks in the foundation.

    	2)  Spray the same insecticide around the outside of the house
       	    up underneath where the wood overhangs the foundation so the
    	    rain won't wash it away.

    	3)  Lay a 5 foot wide strip of diazion granules around the
    	    foundation.  I usually go a little wider than that.

    	Doing this twice a year has virtually eliminated any black ants
    around my house.   And most other insects, too.

    		Drew

	HELP	SCORPIONS	HELP

(moderator if this is in the wrong location please move)

I need help... I have a scorpion problem. I currently
live in Ga. in an apartment on the ground floor. For
the last 3 to 4 months I have had a scorpion problem
INSIDE my apartment... Every 3 to 4 days I "find" any
where from 1 to 4 scorpions. I have caulked, taped, 
screened, sprayed EVERY nook and cranie (that I can find)
but I still have the problem. The wife has been stung.
1 kid alergic to bee stings and I'm tired of staying up
most nights to make sure my son is o.k. Tired of "tearing"
down the bedding every night, tired of having "bug checks"
Most of I'm stressing because I can not figure out where
the heck they are coming from... 

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE HELP "US"

THANKS IN ADVANCE
BRETT

    	I know nothing about Scorpions, living in the Northeast my whole
    life. However, if you're renting an apartment, I would think the
    landlord was obliged to take care of this problem for you immediately!
    Typically, the contract specifies that the conditions must be livable
    and free of pests...and your conditions aren't. I would bring in a
    professional exterminator immediately to take care of this. Despite all
    your efforts, they're still getting in somehow and somewhere you
    haven't found yet. A professional will know just where to look.

    > RE:.509  A professional will know just where to look.

	Thats part of the problem.. the "professionals" that are coming
	say that they're doing everything possible..

	Management says "it's a part of life here in Georgia."

	I'm looking into moving.. I know that I have a fight on my hands.

	They have offered me another apartment... next to the woods..
	I am currently on my way to CA for somewhat of a vacation, so
	I'll have to deal with moving when I get back...

    What does the Board of Health say???

    re:508
    
    	Unfortunately, I too have lived pretty much in the Northeast all of
    my life, so I know nothing about scorpions. What I would suggest is 
    a trip to the local library and some research on your own.
    
    	You'll want to find out what they eat, their prefered habitat,
    breeding habits (i.e. live-bearing or egg-laying, how often, etc.),
    and how big the offspring are (i.e. can they fit though screen mesh ?)
    Hopefully, this will give some clue as to why they want into your
    apartment, how they're getting in, and what you can do about it. 
    
    	By all means, continue to persue the landlord route, but in the
    meantime, you may be able to help yourself. If you move, then encounter
    the same problem, you're no better off. Also, helping yourself may be 
    quicker seeing as how the landlord has a professional exterminator to 
    back him/her up.
    
    	Out of curiousity, what did the exterminator actually do ? How big
    are these scorpians ? If they're small enough to get in past your
    caulking and other precautions, they're probably small enough to get
    into your walls. If this is the case, you'd also have to caulk around
    all of your indoor trim (door, windows, walls) as well. 
    
    	Ray
    
    BTW - Do you have a dryer outlet ? If yes, does it have a screen ?
    

Ray,

Trust me... I've checked all of the trimming.. Gone as far as to lift the
carpet around the whole house to see if there is a gap there. (not done yet
)

Research. I've done... they are live bearing..reproducing anywhere from
4 months to a year. Babies are small, but not small enough to fix through
the screen mesh that I've put on ALL of the vents in the house.. 

As far as the caulking. There is no room AT ALL. What it was, was between
the window frame and building frame there was a gap. I caulked all 8 windows
all around..


ba    

    re: 513
    
    	Any gaps at the bottom edge of the sheathing near the toe plate ?
    You mentioned you're in a first floor apartment. Is there an apartment 
    upstairs ? Do they have the same problem ? Do scorpions climb, as in, will 
    they scale the side of the house ? What kind of house is it ? Does it
    have a foundation of any kind (i.e. pier type) or does it sit on a slab ?
    
    	You never did mention what the professional exterminator did. Do
    they have a bug bomb they can use to do the whole house at once, like
    they do with fleas or do they just spray ? If they got in through
    cracks in the windows, they are likely living in the walls. I'd expect
    a treatment to involve drilling holes in walls (at least around the
    windows) and spraying there as well.
    
    	Lastly, if all else fails, the next time you find one in the house,
    you may just have to follow it around and see if it returns to the
    point of entry. Not sure about scorpions, but ants leave some sort of
    scent trail to guide them back to their nest. Perhaps scorpions do the
    same ?
    
    	Ray

Re. Scorpions in GA

Now that you are here, you may want to add ATLANA::ATLANTA as a regular
conference (keypad 7).  See 205.* in there for this topic.  Other topics
will probably also be of interest.

Lew

Well, we got the expert in to look at our ant situation and here's his prognosis
-  he thinks the nest has been there anywhere between 3 and 5 years..we bought
the house four months ago and I guess the inspector didn't get to see the ants
since the inspection was in winter time!  The expert thinks that the ant nest in
the back wall in the kitchen..his suggestion is to drill small holes in the
siding outside and inject a fog into the wall..this fog will circulate through
the insulation in the walls and kill the ants - destroy the nest too if one is
found in that wall.  His charge for this and treating the foundation around the
house is 295$.  Does this sound reasonable?  Anyone had the fog treatment done ?
 How effective was this treatment?  ( I think the chemical name was Empire)..

	I've looked everywhere for the note on Yellowjackets.
	I know it was here a couple of years ago when I last
	needed this info.  I did dir/title=yellow and got nada.

	In lieu of finding the note, anyone have an idea of what
   	to do if the jackets' nest hole is not visible?  It's
	somewhere inside a shrub (spreading yew).  I'm not about 
        to go looking for the entrance hole very closely, thank you.
	Can I just douse the base of the shrub with something?

    Call an exterminator - they'll send someone over wearing a beekeeper's
    suit to do the job.  You need to saturate the entrance to the hive in
    order to be sure of killing it (if the queen survives, the yjs will go
    make another hive elsewhere!).  If it's way inside of a bush, you're
    going to have a lot of trouble killing the hive without getting right
    up inside the bush yourself, a much better job for a pro wearing the
    right gear.  The chemicals used will kill lots of other insects too,
    like honeybees.  Areas of my shrubs that had to be saturated with the
    spray have suffered, but the bushes have always recovered.  I don't
    know what would happen if you soaked a whole bush because you couldn't
    safely get at the hive deep inside it, though.
    
    /Charlotte

In general, I prefer an arms-length truce over genocide.  However, Yellow
Jackets have 0 sense of tolerance for other forms of life. So, when I am
pestered by yellow buzzing stingers, I grab a can of Wasp killer from Agway. 
It shoots a stream up to 20 ft' (about all I need for a running headstart).  I
have never been particular about getting the entrance to the dwelling,  I just
wait until after dusk (when they are all in there) and saturate the nest as
best I can.  I have not had a problem with them coming out after me during, or
after the saturation. 

Dave

You could always do the old 'flaming bush' method....

Dave

    I'd like to second Dave's recommendation to wait until after dusk as
    they should have all returned to the nest. If you can wait until the
    temperature drops (at night), it slows them down even more.
    
    Good luck. My youngest son has been stung several times by
    yellowjackets - and never a single sting, always from 3-6 at a time so
    we keep can of bee spray handy for when a nest starts to appear.

    We discovered a yj nest last week inside the wall next to our
    chimney. I was surprised at how non-aggressive they were. We
    did call an exterminator. He duct-taped the molding next to the
    chimney on the inside, then sprayed dursban into the opening from
    the outside. The incoming and outgoing bees didn't bother him a
    bit. Surprised me. 
    
    On a slightly related topic -- what are the wasp-like insects
    that are black and have white rings near the tail? We seemed
    to be plagued with those.
    Thanks,
    Sue
    

           <<< 12DOT2::NOTES$STUFF:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                                 -< Home_work >-
================================================================================
Note 5425.0                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                     22 replies
VMSNET::W_LATTA "Hero of the Stupid!"                38 lines  16-SEP-1994 19:57
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Good Day,
    
    I looked at the "pests" listing but didn't find one for this, so here
    goes.
    
    I live in Atlanta, and for some reason, perhaps because of the
    unusually moist summer we had here, my yard has become the location of
    choice for no less than 3 thriving hives of yellowjackets. I may be a
    fan of their football team, but definitely not of these ornery flying
    pests. 
    
    Fortunately, I found two of the hives before I mowed over them, and
    saved myself from being stung to death. However, the third surprised me
    and I got a very unpleasant surprise, but I survived.
    
    At any rate, I have been unsuccessful in eradicating the nests. Being
    that they are inground, it is a bit dificult to get at them. I tried a
    spray foam product I purchase at Home Depot, and managed to get rid of
    one nest completely, but the other two are not cooperating. I have
    treated the holes twice each, and they seem to die and go dormant for a
    few days, and I covered the holes up with dirt. But, after several days
    they reappear, from a new hole. I can't find exactly where the new
    hole is, but it is near the original one, so I suspect I am not able to
    kill all of the eggs, and they are hatching and then tunneling out
    another hole. Or do yellowjacket nests have more than one entrance?
    
    Anyone had any experiences with eradicating these pests? I've heard of
    pouring gasoline down the holes, but I don't want to poison the ground
    like that. If there is a pest-control notesfile around I could try
    there if someone could provide a pointer.
    
    Help! I have to mow the lawn again real soon.
    
    
    Whit.
    
    
================================================================================
Note 5425.1                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        1 of 22
WRKSYS::MORONEY "rearranger of rotating rust"        10 lines  16-SEP-1994 20:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A trick I've heard (that I've never tried myself) is to take a clear 2
liter soda bottle, cut the bottom off, leave cap on, and place one over
each of their holes.  Be sure they can't sneak out the bottom.

The idea is if you simply block the hole, they realize this and just dig a new
one.  But the clear bottles make it so they don't realize their hole is
blocked, and they simply buzz around in the bottle and eventually die.
A little pesticide in there will help with that.

-Mike
================================================================================
Note 5425.2                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        2 of 22
STRATA::CASSIDY                                      10 lines  16-SEP-1994 21:20
                       -< Ouch! bzzzzz, Ouch! bzzzz... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> But the clear bottles make it so they don't realize their hole is blocked,
> and they simply buzz around in the bottle and eventually die.

	    I would think banging their little bee faces against the plastic
	a few dozen times might give it away.  8^* 
	    If you were a whole lot further north, I'd say wait until it got
	cold and dig an access into the nest so you could blast them good!
	Bees get pretty sluggish in colder weather.

					Tim
================================================================================
Note 5425.3                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        3 of 22
REDZIN::COX                                          11 lines  18-SEP-1994 07:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground dwelling Yellow Jackets are in and out of their hole all day, but SELDOM 
in the evening or night.  Pick up a can of "get em with a stream from 10 feet
away", and a 6-pack of homebrew and a lawn chair. Plop down near the nest about 
an hour before dusk and wait.  Strenuoulsy resist the urge to go over to the 
nest and "knock on their door".  Those streams are great for 1 or 2, but not a 
fast-gun weapon for a swarm.

I firmly believe the only reason Yellow Jackets exist is that God wanted to 
find out what it takes to move this particular pacifist to genocide.

Luck
================================================================================
Note 5425.4                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        4 of 22
HDLITE::CHALTAS "I've got a little list..."           7 lines  19-SEP-1994 08:45
                    -< environmentall unfriendly solution >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I've had good results in the past by pouring 1 cup (8 fl. oz) or so
    of Gasoline down the hole followed by a match.   It's probably not
    safe, nor is it environmentally correct, but it sure did work!
    
    It didn't kill the critters that weren't at home (better to do
    it at night, I'd guess), but it did kill off the hive.   Works for
    bumblebees too!
================================================================================
Note 5425.5                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        5 of 22
WRKSYS::RICHARDSON                                   22 lines  19-SEP-1994 09:53
                             -< call in an expert >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I can sympathize - I've always had to call in an exterminator (who
    wears a bee suit!) to get rid of ground hives, but all of this year's
    "flying hazards" built above ground and could be wiped out by spraying
    the entrances at night when all the little monsters are home.  I'm
    allergic to the damn things so I have to get my non-allergic spouse to
    do the honors.  You have to really saturate the hive with the poison,
    because if you do not manage to kill the queen, who is well-protected
    inside the thing, the bugs will be back in just a few days, as soon as
    the queen repopulates the hive.  I don't like spraying poison all over
    everything either, but these monsters have GOT TO GO!
    
    One of my friends took a direct apporach to a hive in a tree one year. 
    it was right near his back deck and so was a hazard.  One very chilly
    evening he got up on a ladder with a hose in one hand and a propane
    torch in the other hand, and burned the hive up!  I wasn't there at the
    time...  and I sure wouldn't reccomend this technique!  He did not get
    stung, so I guess he had the element of surprise in his favor.  After
    the hive was history, he put out the fire in his tree with the hose,
    climbed down, and cleaned up the hive debris below.  Must have been
    exciting to watch, from a safe distance!
    
    /Charlotte
================================================================================
Note 5425.6                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        6 of 22
LEZAH::WELLCOME "Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33"  3 lines  19-SEP-1994 10:54
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    A friend and I, back in what passed for my wild youth, once got
    rid of a hive of yellowjackets by stuffing a burning red flare,
    tied to the end of a long pole, into the entrance.
================================================================================
Note 5425.7                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        7 of 22
KAOFS::B_VANVALKENB                                  15 lines  19-SEP-1994 11:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I tried 2 things...
    
    1. leave a running lawnmower over the hole for a couple of hours.
    
    	Pissed them off real good but only killed a few.
    
    2. waited until fall and then poured a few 5 gal. pails of boiling
       water down the hole.
    
    	Worked great no more pest...also no more grass. reseeded next 
    	spring all ok...
    
    
    Brian V
    
================================================================================
Note 5425.8                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        8 of 22
SMAUG::MENDEL "Welcome to the next baselevel"        22 lines  19-SEP-1994 12:33
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Just two weeks ago I discovered a YJ nest. It was discovered it by setting 
    up the tent for the wedding reception - hammering a big stake into the 
    ground 4 feet from their nest sure does make them mad. Fortunately, they
    got the guy from the rental place, and not me. Unfortunately, he got stung
    about 10 times, and we had to pluck another thirty or so out of his
    shirt, his pants, his socks... 

    The wedding was the next day. I *had* to get rid of them *instantly*.
    The nest was right next to where the bar would be.

    What worked (for me): Apply 1 wheelbarrow full of dirt onto the hole. 
    Poured on 2 cups of gasoline. Ignited it, and waited for it to burn out.
    Then thoroughly soaked a 2' diamater around the hole with gasoline - enough
    that I felt the gas penetrated farther than the bees could build. Then
    sprayed the entire area with yard guard.

    This may have been over-kill. (I would have used a small thermonuclear 
    device if I had had one.) But it worked. There were some bees flying
    around it as much as three or four days later, "locked out". Then that was
    that.

    Kevin
================================================================================
Note 5425.9                    Yellowjackets!!!!!                        9 of 22
MRKTNG::BROCK "Son of a Beech"                        6 lines  19-SEP-1994 12:46
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    As stated earlier, not environmentally correct, and a little bit
    dangeroous (but danger can be minimized by being careful) - pour 1
    cup of gasoline down the hole. Wait about 3-4 minutes. Ignite
    carefully - ensuring that any gas containers are FAR removed. It will
    burn for about 30 minutes. The little yellow SOB's that just stung your
    kids WILL be dead. Worked 3 out of 3 times so far.
================================================================================
Note 5425.10                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       10 of 22
MSE1::SULLIVAN "We have met the enemy & they is us!"  10 lines  19-SEP-1994 13:02
                            -< My prefered method. >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe still not environmentally sound, but certainly better than pouring
gas down a hole...safer too!

I've had success by sprinkling a powder insecticide at the entrance. This 
method takes a day or two but seems to work. The bees entering the hive 
carry the powder in on their little feet, thereby infecting and killing
everyone else.

						Mark

================================================================================
Note 5425.11                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       11 of 22
NUBOAT::HEBERT "Captain Bligh"                        9 lines  19-SEP-1994 13:08
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We just discovered YJ's entering the outside of our house, via a tiny
hole where the chimney butts the house. Most of the solutions so far
wouldn't be too groovey in my case. Is there a liquid pesticide I can
shoot into and around the hole that will have the same effect as the
powder mentioned here?

Thanks,

Art
================================================================================
Note 5425.12                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       12 of 22
RAGMOP::FARINA                                        7 lines  19-SEP-1994 13:20
                                 -< Diazinon? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I was going to suggested powdered or granulated Diazinon.  It says on
    the container to wait until night fall, and empty the entire contents
    (of canister size, obviously!) down the hole.  Good luck!  I really
    hate those things!!
    
    
    Susan
================================================================================
Note 5425.13                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       13 of 22
TLE::MENARD "new kid on the COMMON block"            17 lines  19-SEP-1994 13:52
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>We just discovered YJ's entering the outside of our house, via a tiny
>hole where the chimney butts the house. 

    We just had a similar experience; a ground nest in the garden next
to the front door (like, 4 inches from the front door; it was lucky
no one was stung before).

    We bought some of that 10-yd hornet spray, mentioned earlier, and waited
until almost dusk.  My husband then sprayed it down the hole.  Some 
stragglers came back to the nest after that, which he then sprayed individually.
They didn't seem to care that he was there, nor that he was picking off
their nestmates.

    Now, we did use 2 cans of this junk, but there's been no signs of
the little devils since.

	    - Lorri
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Note 5425.14                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       14 of 22
MRKTNG::BROCK "Son of a Beech"                       10 lines  19-SEP-1994 14:06
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    To the person who discovered the YJ's entering the house from the
    outside. 
    Had that problem too. Blasted 'em with the 10 foot spray from the
    outside. Thoroughly poisoned all areas by their entrance hole. Soooo,
    the little critters decided they better make for themselves a back
    door. Which they did, by eating through the sheet rock and entering my
    dining room. 
    
    Closing off the front door is not a problem when the front door is in
    the ground. Different issue when it's in your house.
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Note 5425.15                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       15 of 22
MKOTS3::SCANLON "oh-oh. It go. It gone. Bye-bye."    15 lines  19-SEP-1994 14:51
                            -< Wanna-bee driving? >-
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    Has this been a banner year for these things or what?  I have
    them on my CAR every day!  It seems they like the sap from
    the pine trees over the driveway.  Of course my SOs car, which 
    is dark red doesn't have a bee on it.  I've counted upwards of
    30 on my grey car (from the safety of my house, mind you) at
    high noon.  Have I just got a weird crop of bees, or is this
    a common problem this time of year?  I haven't seen them flying
    from anywhere in particular (of course I'd need binoculars, since
    that's about as close as I'll get), should I be looking for a nest?
    At any rate, the tree service people will be removing the pine trees, 
    thus solving that part of the problem.   I don't remember having bees
    on my car last year, however, and as I am allergic to these critters, I 
    think I might remember seeing 10 or more at a time.... :-)
    
    Mary-Michael
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Note 5425.16                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       16 of 22
WRKSYS::RICHARDSON                                   10 lines  19-SEP-1994 15:45
                           -< they like my car too >-
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    They get on my car, too - it's dark blue.  One time a year or two ago,
    they started building a nest on it over the weekend (I didn't drive the
    car for 2 days so they thought it was part of the scenery?) - I got one
    sting getting rid of them that time!  So far they haven't tried that
    trick this year, but it sure has been a good year for them!  The
    reaction gets worse and worse every time I get stung, and I am the one
    who gets saddled with most of the outdoor work, so I get really
    paranoid about these damn insects.
    
    /Charlotte
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Note 5425.17                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       17 of 22
PCBUOA::RIDGE "the trouble w/you is the trouble w/me"  2 lines  19-SEP-1994 16:33
                                -< Sevin works >-
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    Any powder insecticide containing Sevin, will do the trick. About 
    1/2 cup down the hole ought to do it.
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Note 5425.18                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       18 of 22
ASDG::SBILL                                          13 lines  20-SEP-1994 08:07
 -< Found them in the downspout, almost got killed getting off the ladder... >-
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This summer while cleaning the gutters I decided to take apart one of the
downspouts to make sure it wasn't clogged in the bend. A yellow jacket appeared
and I didn't think much of it until another and another appeared. They were
living in the downspout!. I was up on a stepladder and in my haste to get down
and run away I slipped and fell on the grass and almost broke my thumb (nurse
said that I did pull some ligaments though). 

Fortunately it was about time for my quarterly exterminator visit so I called
and had him take care of it for me. He sure did spray the heck out of that nest!
The red downspout was white when I got home that day. Not a sign of the little
beasts after that.

Steve B.
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Note 5425.19                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       19 of 22
MSE1::SULLIVAN "We have met the enemy & they is us!"  8 lines  20-SEP-1994 08:09
             -< Use sparingly...unless you have stock in pest co. >-
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Re: amounts of powder.

I've had very good success with MUCH smaller amounts than have been mentioned
here. I would guess about 1/4 cup. I use the ones with the "shaker" top and
just sprinkle some around the entrance hole. Seems to have worked for me
(at least 3 times over the years)
							Mark

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Note 5425.20                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       20 of 22
IMTDEV::COGAN "So, You Expect Me To Leap...Right?"   18 lines  20-SEP-1994 10:47
                             -< Yup, Diazinon... >-
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>                     <<< Note 5425.12 by RAGMOP::FARINA >>>
>                                 -< Diazinon? >-

>    I was going to suggested powdered or granulated Diazinon.  It says on
>    the container to wait until night fall, and empty the entire contents
>    (of canister size, obviously!) down the hole.  Good luck!  I really
>    hate those things!!
    
	Bingo!

	    I discovered this while treating the lawn for grubs. I use liquid
	diazinon w/ water in a lawn sprayer. It even says on the label NOT
	to spray around bees/wasps etc. as this stuff is extremely deadly to 
	'um. You don't even need to hit the nest. Just soak an area close to 
	it and the fumes will do the trick.

	....jc
	<who's allergic to the little pests>
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Note 5425.21                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       21 of 22
WRKSYS::SEILER "Larry Seiler"                        15 lines  20-SEP-1994 14:23
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    When using poisons, be sure to use no more than the amount listed on
    the label.  If that doesn't work, well...  But the discussions in this
    string show why some regions find their groundwater is now getting
    contaminated from household poisons, rather than industrial pollution.
    Lots of people faced with a personal threat tend to assume the more
    poison the better.  Of course, it's the people who poison a whole
    *yard* because of a localized grub or insect problem who really 
    cause the damage.  But it's worth keeping in mind that a lot of these
    poisons aren't just dangerous to the insects they are poured on.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry
    
    PS:  Yes, I've got a yellojacket nest, too.  Either mine were wusses
    or they were laying low -- I'll go back to see if I really got them.
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Note 5425.22                   Yellowjackets!!!!!                       22 of 22
VMSSPT::LYCEUM::CURTIS "Dick "Aristotle" Curtis"      8 lines  20-SEP-1994 14:34
                -< Felt fortunate to succeed without pesticide >-
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    Guess I was lucky with mine, some years back, because they were where I
    wanted to establish a compost heap.  Filled the (6 cu. ft) wheelbarrow
    with dirt and waited for nightfall...
    
    The following spring I moved the dirt out of the way and set up shop
    for composting.
    
    Dick

>                      <<< Note 1174.522 by STAR::LEWIS >>>
>                              -< flying critters >-
>
>    We discovered a yj nest last week inside the wall next to our
>    chimney. I was surprised at how non-aggressive they were. We
>    did call an exterminator. He duct-taped the molding next to the
>    chimney on the inside, then sprayed dursban into the opening from
>    the outside. The incoming and outgoing bees didn't bother him a
>    bit. Surprised me. 

But were they yellow jackets or were they (honey) bees?
They are VERY different creatures!
I wouldn't want either building nests in the walls of my house,
but I'd have very different expectations about what it would take
to clean out one over the other.
    
>    On a slightly related topic -- what are the wasp-like insects
>    that are black and have white rings near the tail? We seemed
>    to be plagued with those.

Wasps and hornets are more similar to one another than either is to bees.
Let's just call these "wasp-like" insects "wasps."

- tom]

>But were they yellow jackets or were they (honey) bees?
>They are VERY different creatures!
>I wouldn't want either building nests in the walls of my house,
>but I'd have very different expectations about what it would take
>to clean out one over the other.
 I'm no expert, but I think they were yellow jackets. Aren't yj's similar
    to honey bees, just not so furry? These were not furry. Of course, if
    we find honey leaking into our basement, or something else equally
    icky, we'll know we chose the wrong treatment.
    Sue
    

    Watch out for ants and others that go after leftover honey after bees
    are gone.

Yellowjackets are yellow and black and not hairy.

Honeybees are hairy and can be brown tan to blackish, never as yellow as
yellowjackets.   They always live in some preexisting hollow space, not
paper nests or dug holes in the ground.

BTW I tried the "clear soda bottle" trick a couple weeks ago.  Placed on
hole at night, put dirt around bottom to seal any leaks.  First day
was rather exciting, the bottle was filled with angry YJs trying to get out.
A couple days later there was little activity.  Next time I checked the bottle
was knocked over (think a skunk decided to have a snack) and the nest recovered
somewhat.  Replaced bottle.  I guess this method works but takes a while.
Environmentally friendly, though.

Honeybees in the wall of a house can be a real problem.  You can't just 
poison them since the dead bees/brood will rot and smell like hell, and
the honey will leak and ferment and draw rodents and other bugs.

The best way is a complicated process where a beekeeper traps them out but this
takes a while (6 weeks).  Another process is destructive, physically opening
up the wall/whatever and physically removing them.

-Mike (amateur beekeeper)

	All winter we've had small moths in our house they are about 3/8" 
long dark with a light grey band across the back.  Anyone know what these
are and are they destructive? How can I begin to get rid of them?

George 

We have an apparently ever-increasing clan of what I'm told are India Meal Moths
that arrived courtesy of a bag of premium dog food and took up residence in a
30 pound box of dog biscuits (feeds *a lot* of moths). They don't move very far
but they sure procreate like crazy. My favorite Mr. Death To Bugs Guy is
dropping by Monday to leave some sticky strips covered with India Meal Moth
pheremones (Probably smells like dog food). The dogs find them rather yummy and
tend to snatch any that fly by, but most just hang out in the closet and make
more moths. These buggers look similar to what you descibed. Their larva are
about the same length. If you have anything like dry pet food or open containers
of food about, it might be work a look. We banished the food to the garage,
however they're happily eating something somewhere else.

					Trace

    Meal moths ehhhh!!!!  We have to join you in this fun game.  The 
    pussy cat likes to play pounce with them and it is considered a 
    big kill if she catches one.  I try my hand at it too but don't 
    munch them down like she does.  Any other good tricks for eliminating
    them without bombing the whole house down???

>            <<< Note 1174.548 by BIGQ::GARDNER "justme....jacqui" >>>
>
>    Meal moths ehhhh!!!!  
>    Any other good tricks for eliminating
>    them without bombing the whole house down???

You just have to eliminate their food source.  If you're going to be hardnosed
about it, you'll probably have to discard it.  You'll probably want to 
discard it if you find it's people food.  You may be less finicky if 
it's just pet food.  In the latter case, segregation MIGHT keep in-house
stuff from getting re-infested.  However, if you fill the dog's dish in 
the garage but then bring it into the house, you'll be importing 
worms and moths if doggy doesn't chow down fast enough.

Our moths were breeding in my daughters' bird's food.

- tom]

I checked onteh web and hte descrioption of the meal moth doesn't seenm to fit what we have..but circumstances do.
 The description on the web says that these are bronze colored moths.  What we have is definitely dark grey with a
lighter grey band across the wings.  But.....we do have a pbtha bird and a cat.  The cat eats canned food so that
would't be a breeding place.  The bird food could be a candidate though. In the past I have noticed three or four
very small "caterpillars" on the wall in the vicinity of the birds cage.  I really didn't pay much attention to
them when I cleaned them up.  i figured that they were just part of the random fauna that infiltrates a house in
the woods and haven't noticed any more since.  Now it seems a  good bet that they were/are related.  Is there an
extension service around Hudson, NH that I could bring a sample moth to for ID?

George

   RE -.2 or.3  We had moths similar to the ones that you described.   Our
    moths got into our house via the bird food. Now, whenever we buy
    birdfood(Oats and Groats for our Cockatiel) we put the birdfood in the
    freezer for a couple of days before opening the bag.  The sub-freezing 
    cold kills the moths and larva.
    	The moths like dark places, closets, behind the cabinets etc.
    They're definetely a nuisance.
    
    	

They come into the house in people food too: any grain products like
rice, cereal, flour, etc.  We freeze stuff for a couple of days like
someone said and, after that, keep the stuff sealed up in plastic
containers in the cabinets.  If you've had them all winter, you might
go through and throw out any of your grain foods that look funny ...

There's an extension service in Milford NH: 

	UNH Cooperative Extension, 673-2510.

-Chris

    
    The sound just like the moths I get in my bird food.  (never had them
    in people food) the ones in the people food look different.  I too
    freeze all bird food - and I don't have a problem.
    
    I never had them in my dog biskets.  Do you have bird food?