Conference 7.286::home_work

    Hi, This is a qeuss, but it should be one of two things. Either
    thewasher was not properly leveled after it was moved, or the second
    load was not distributed evenly inside the washer i.e. all the heavy
    clothes ended up on one side. Hope this helps
    
    
    
    

	Whirlpool has an automatic leveling system in the back.  If that is
	properly set up the washer will not be stable.  The procedure is to 
	make sure the rear legs are in place such that when one leg goes up
	the other will go down.  With the front level pull the washer forward
	and let it come down hard enough to set the rear legs.  If that does
	not help and it is not just a load balance problem then you should 
	check the suspension system.

	Re: .1,.2
		   Looks like I have to work on the leveling the washer 
	this weekend.  Thanks for the quick responses.  Really appreciate
	them.  
		

    The Whirlpool (at least new ones) front legs are two parts, the
    leg itself and a nut. The leg will screw into the washer and you
    adjust until level. Then tighten the nut up against the washer.
    If yours don't have the nut, buy one and add it on. If you don't
    tighten the nut, the legs are not really steady and cause the machine
    to vibrate.
    
    Ed

      For a little encouragment..... we bought a Whirlpool washer &
    dryer 8 years ago, and after doing ~ 5 loads a week they are running
    like new! (knock on wood)

	I bought a Whirlpool washer last year and the people who delivered
	it leveled the washer as previously mentioned (tilting forward, then
	back).  I completed the rest of the installation according to the
	directions in the owners manual.  Washed the first load of clothes
	and the machine went bonkers.  It didn't drain correctly after the
	wash and made strange noises.  Time to re-read the installation
	directions.  Everything listed was dutifully checked.  Then I noticed
	the writing on the back of the washer lid.  One item left out of the
	installation directions was that the drain from the washer MUST be
	higher than the washer back.  It's worked fine ever since.  I don't
	know if this may be your problem or not.  Any ideas why it was mine?

	Phil (DYIer on training wheels)

    If the drain is lower than the top of the washer, you can get a
    aspirater (I believe this what they call them). It's a device that
    lets the water flow through while allowing any air in the waste
    hose to escape. I paid $3 or $4 dollars for one, needed it in my
    previous house, from your local repair man.

    If the machine is properly levelled and it still continues to
    vibrate, check the snubber.  The snubber is the round piece of
    rubber mounted in a metal loop, which is attached to the side of
    the cabinet.  Just lift the lid and you'll see it.  Since you
    mentioned that the machine was used, you should check this
    as they tend to wear out quickly.
    
    
    Mark
    

	Over the weekend I took the assistance of a friend and lifted
	the washer's rear end about a couple of inches and let it drop.
	The installation manual recommended this for levelling.  

	And now the washer seems to behave itself.  Thanx for all the
	recommendations.. I learnt a few new things about washers in
	general.

    Today, when my wife was washing clothes, she went into the cellar
    to find that there was an inch of water on the floor and the washer
    was still filling.  It was over flowing over the top of the tub.
    What "part" went bad that needs to be replaced?
    
    While I'm at it, awhile ago it decided to use only cold water. 
    It won't pump hot water into the tub.  Any ideas on this too?
    
    Chris D.
    

if its a GE or hotpoint, call 800 626 2000 and ask.  some other 
manufacturers have a similar hotline.  (if its a MAytag, be careful 
when you awake the repairman :-)

    
    Overflow:
    
    The sensors I've seen use air pressure. A thin plastic tube connects
    from the bottom of the tub to a pressure switch behind the control
    panel, close to the water level switch. I would first check for
    a broken or disconnected tube, then blow into it from the bottom
    end and check the operation of the pressure switch with an ohmmeter.
    
    No hot water:
    
    If it happened suddenly, first suspect the hot water inlet solenoid.
    Switch the wires to the hot and cold solenoids, and get into a cycle
    that calls for both. If you still get no hot water, it's the solenoid.
    If you get hot and no cold, look for a problem in the timer or whatever
    hot/cold manual controls you have.
    If it happened slowly, check the filter screen where the hot water
    hose attaches to the machine.

    Anyone out there ever replaced the top of a washing machine?
    Ours is rusted, sears said part costs $67, labor to install
    is $83.  Is this that tough a job?

    
    Not hard to replace yourself if you're semi-handy with tools.
    Just try taking it off, but don't push any farther than you know
    you can backtrack. Easy way to save $83.
    
    But why not try this while you have the top off. Wirebrush and sand
    the rust away (at least where easily possible, use a rust converter
    product to stabilize the rest). Prime with a Rustoleum-type rust
    preventer, then finish with an epoxy-type appliance enamel (assuming
    you can get some the same color as the washer, which is why I buy
    white). Total cost - $15?

    A couple of months ago....Sears contacted me to tell me that my
    Maintenance Contract for my dishwasher was about to expire and would
    I like to renew it at this time....
    
>>       Dishwasher purchased new - Main. Contract cost: $35.00
         Coverage for two (2) years. (Of course the new machine carried
          its own limited warranty of 1 Yr.) The contract stated that
         anything that went wrong would be covered 100% parts & labor
         for the 2 year period. The contract also made available a
         FREE yearly maintenance check-up. So naturally one would take
         advantage of this check-up (once a year) weather anything was
         wrong or not.
    
    Anyway...to make a long story short....
    
         I did not renew the maintenance agreement w/ the dishwasher.
    The cost (its not newly purchased anymore) was $55.00 / 1 year..
    so I figured ayy forget it. BUT I asked what it would cost for a
    contract on my CLOTHES WASHER it being ~8 yrs. old. The woman replied
    with the same figure $55.00/ 1 year   so I said give me 2...two
    years that is for $110.00. I figured it was about time something
    was going to go wrong. The water pump was replaced two years ago
    or so (cost:$~57.00) out of pocket.
    
    Soooooo anyway.... A couple months go by and I asked my wife to
    set up the FREE maintenance check-up we're intitled to...remember
    once a year you're intitled to it..regardless of weather the machine
    is operating ok or not.
    
    So the Sears maintenance guy arrives, does his thing, Says that
    there was a few seals that required replacement along with the
    drainage hoses which became rusty where they connect to the faucets.
    These materials had to be ordered (funny these wern't in stock?)
    In the mean time the washer started to act odd. The big huge
    thing you see (agitator) when you open the lid wasn't consistently
    turning when the washer was in operation. When the Sears guy showed
    up with the parts he ordered...he diagnoised the problem as being
    the washers' TRANSMISSION!!!!! I asked him what it cost...and he
    said just be glad you have the maintenance agreement. He came back
    in 1.5 wks. installed the NEW transmission and I was all set. Total
    cost of all materials was ~$175.00. Such a deal, right in the nick
    of time. I hate working on the clothes washer myself!!!!
    
        Soooooo. I'm not one for buying all sorts of extended warrantees
    on cars and other equipment I own....(Sears wants to sell you one
    for all their products.) but the contracts for things like old clothes
    washers and maybe the dish washer (when it gets to be 5-6 yrs. old)
    might make sense...at least in light of my past experience. Perhaps
    this is an option for you as well.

    
    MArk   (I have enough gasoline powered machines to maintain without
                                               the Sears products too.)

    Depends what you mean by "top". If the top also includes the piece
    with all the control knobs etc, then just be aware of the fact that
    you will have to dismount and remount all that stuff.  Most multiple
    cycle washers have zillions of wires going to those controls - they're
    almost always connected with some kind of simple quick-connect lugs,
    so that's no problem - just be sure that either you have a decent
    wiring diagram or you very carefully note where all the wires have
    to go.

    Even with this glitch I gotta believe you're better off than spending
    $83.
        

    Well, I called the 800 number and he had me check some stuff with
    an ohm meter and then said that it was the level switch.
    Re:.02.  Do I switch the hot and cold wires right at the hot/warm/cold
    switch?  By the time I got done talking to the technician, I forgot
    all about asking him about the hot water.
    
    Chris D.

    
    I would switch wires first at the solenoids, then get into a cycle
    that demands both hot and cold water, and see which solenoid works.
    That's the easiest thing to check. After that, you have to start
    worrying about how the timer and the temp switch interact.

    Is the selenoid the gadget that the hoses connect to at the back
    of the machine?
    
    Chris D.

    WAIT!  Before you swap the wires at the solenoid, use the ohm meter
    to check them.  The switch may have been blown by a short in the
    solenoid.  Measure the resistance across each solenoid coil.  the
    resistance should be low, but measurable.  If it is 0 (zero), then
    replace the solenoid, as well as the switch.  Better safe than sorry.
    
    /bruce

    I have to top section apart right now waiting for the level switch.
     When I get the new level switch, I'll check the selenoid with an
    ohm meter.  Thanks for the help.
    
    Chris D.

    Well, I got the new level sensor switch and that problem is solved.
    As far as the selenoid goes, I couldn't find another ohm meter to
    borrow (my father was gone for the weekend), so I attempted to switch
    the wires on the selenoid.  I still had no hot water, so I switched
    them back the way they were and put everything back together figuring
    that we usualy wash in cold water anyway so there's no hurry.  I
    didn't flick the switch back from "hot wash" to "cold wash" when
    I was done and when my wife put in the next load, we had HOT water.
    What do you think, did testing the selenoid by switching the wires
    give it the "jump start" it may have needed?

    Solenoids are made of a big coil of wire molded in plastic to keep it
    waterproof etc. A common failure mechanism is that the wire from the
    coil that connects to the lug (that you see), breaks off inside. Since
    the whole thing is molded the broken can wire become intermittent.
    Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. This happened to me on a
    dishwasher.... I'd replace it! 
    
    
    ...bill

It cold have been that just re-seating the connection did it.  Who 
knows?

Something in your note caught my eye though.  You said you hadn't 
switched back from "hot wash" to "cold wash" when you put the wires 
back.  If you had switched the hot-water wires to the cold solenoid and
vice-versa, then running the machine set to "hot wash" would really only
have tested the cold water inlet.  Which would explain why you got only
cold water. You would have wanted to switch wires, and run the machine
on "cold wash" so the cold-water wires would go high and switch on the
hot-water solenoid. 

But as long as everything's working it comes under the "if it ain't 
broke don't fix it" rule.
					>>>==>PStJTT

    I did keep the switch on "cold wash".  When it didn't work then
    I moved the switch to "hot wash" just to make sure the cold water
    would start and that it wasn't the switch itself.
    
    Chris D.

    I recently installed a washer in our house, including putting in the
    electrical and plumbing necessary. I'm looking for some suggestions on
    how to solve a draining problem. The problem is that this is a
    basement, and the ceiling is about 8' (measured in between the joists
    all the way up to the sub-floor). The waste exits into the ground on
    the other side of the house, and I have tapped into the kitchen drain,
    which runs across the house about a foot below the joists, that is,
    about 6'6" above the basement floor. This is a 2" pipe with a
    reasonable slope. I inserted a 45 degree branch into this, and added a
    P trap and as much standpipe as I could, which is unfortunately only
    about 14" before it hits the sub-floor. 
    
    When I did this I wasn't even sure that the washer could pump the
    water this high, so I was prepared to put in a separate drainage
    tank and pump. As it happens, the washer seems to have plenty of
    power to pump the water, but it can't seem to get through the trap
    fast enough, so it backs up and the standpipe overflows.

    I'd like to know if anyone has any ideas how to make this setup
    work without adding the separate holding tank. Is it feasible to
    attach the washer hose directly to the waste line with a coupling
    so that it can't back up, or would this cause some damage to the
    washer? Is there any other kind of trap that the water could get
    through faster, or could I possibly move the trap farther down the
    line? Any other creative thoughts?
    
    Thanks.

    Sounds like the 14" of standpipe isn't enough.  You NEED the trap
    in the line.  You'll need the trap even with the pump, I believe.
    Sounds like the numbers aren't going to work out.  Is a sump pump
    to a drywell a possibility?
    

    
    I don't know if it's called a siphon breaker or not, but my
    father-in-law's hookup uses a solid plumbing connection to a trap
    via a one-way valve. Has worked fine for years. Actually, if the
    valve does its job, I can't see why the trap is even necessary.

    RE: .2
    
    From re-reading the base note, it doesn't sound like the problem
    is siphoning (at least as it exists now).
    
    RE: .3
    
    Wouldn't a one-way valve would slow the water down even more than
    the trap causing the water to backup quicker?
    
    
    Maybe you just need more pipe before the trap to accomodate the
    volume of water being pumped from the washeras you suggested.  2"
    pipe sounds big enough.  How is everybody else's hooked up??

    re: .4
    
    That's right, it seems like the problem is not having enough stand
    before the trap. I already took out the 1.5" that I originally put
    in and replaced it with 2", however, and it wasn't enough. I guess
    I'll look into the possibility of a direct connection with some
    kind of valve. That makes sense to me, but I wanted to make sure
    it wouldn't damage the washer in any way. Thanks.
    
    - Ram

    
    I would forget the standpipe and just connect it up direct.  You'r
    running a pressureized line (from washer) to a non-pressureized
    line (drain).  Any sypon action would be done away with by the
    standpipe that allready exhists in the kitchen drain up stream.
    Think of how a dishwasher is connected up.  Usually to the sink
    drain, and any venting that is needed is provided by the drain
    that is allready there.
    
    I would caution you about one thing.  What if the sewer backs up?
    As they say @$#% flows down hill, and what do you have waiting for
    it: a nice big tub (your washer).  You'r P trap won't stop that:
    it's job is 1) to prevent sewer gasses from getting into you house
    and 2) to trap dirt/large objects.  Both of witch will be taken
    care of by your washer (just by the way it's drain and filter
    is designed).  As a solution I would suggest inserting a check valve
    in line with the washer.  The same kind they use for pumps to keep
    them from loosing their prime.  They can handle the large volume
    of water and keep the drain from backing up into the washer.
    
    Anyway, if I were you that's what I'd do.  Hope this helps.

    All of the suggestions that have been given sound good, but I'm
    having trouble finding the necessary parts to do the job. I've been
    to several hardware stores and several plumbing supplies, and none
    of them have anything that would permit a washer hose to be connected
    to a waste line, not to mention the proposed "bleeder" valves to
    insert inline in the washer hose. I did see a couple of valves similar
    to the one mentioned in .6, one of which was designed to screw onto
    a pipe end (as in a sump pump application), and the other of which
    was designed for use with dishwashers and had fittings to accept
    tubes, but of different diameters. It was suggested to me that it
    is common practice to just stick the tube into the pipe and tape
    it up with duct tape. This seems a little crude, but I'm willing
    to try it unless someone has a better suggestion.
    
    After reading .7, I think the idea of having something to prevent
    backflow would be a good idea (even though the washer is a long ways
    from the toilet waste). Have you seen anything like this that could
    be inserted in a washer hose?
     

    In general, I've found that there are enough plumbing fittings to
    adapt anything to anything, although you may need to go through
    six or seven different fittings to get from one to the other.  It
    shouldn't be quite that bad though....
    You should be able to find a plastic fitting the hose will push
    onto, either secured by a hose clamp or by ridges in the fitting
    (the same way the other end of the hose goes on the pump in the 
    washing machine), with threads on the other end:
    
threads ^^^^^^^-----\_\_\_\_\_\-\
on      |			|
this 	|			|	<--hose pushes on this end
end    	^^^^^^^-----/-/-/-/-/-/-/
    
    From that, you ought to be able to find a combination of threaded/
    soldered/glued fittings that will let you go to the drainpipe, and
    in the process of getting there you can include a check valve.
    I'd suggest keeping the diameter of all these pieces as large as 
    possible, to keep the restriction to a minimum.
    
    The odds are very much against your finding a fitting that will
    let you go directly from A to B.
    

    
    	Thanks for the info folks. I happened to have the same problem
    as .0 of an overhead drainpipe and a washer to connect. As a result
    of some trial and error and reading this notesfile, I am implimenting
    the following solution:
    
    				-----------------    <PVC
                                |   ----------  |
                                |   |        |  |
                                |   |       |____|   <Check valve
              Overhead drain>  (     )      \    /   <Adapter #1
                                -----        |  |    <Adapter #2
                                            ||  ||
                                            |    |   <washer discharge
                                                           hose
    
                                                         
    	The check valve serves 2 primary functions - it stops sewer
    waste from backing up into the washer and it stops sewer gases from
    escaping through the washer (since it normally holds 1 - 2" of water
    above itself). The whole setup is sealed using a hose clamp, 
    PVC glue and plumber's tape (for the threads on the adapters and
    check valve).
    
    works like a chaaam
    LB.

I have the exact same problem as .0   My dimensions are slightly
different.  The trap is about five feet from the basement
floor, the bottom of the main sewer pipe is about 4 and a half
feet from the basement floor and exits sideways into the septic
tank.  

Will the following arrangement work?  The guy at the hardware
store insists that it'll still overflow the stand pipe
and sold me just enough fittings to mate the washer drain hose 
directly to the stand pipe (about 8 to 10" long).  I'll try it 
tonight but am afraid if the washer pump stops while the toilet
upstairs is flushed, the toilet fluid may be siphoned into the washer.

I suspect the following will work if the stand pipe is long
(I can make it 3 ft before it hits the ceiling of the basement.)
The way I see it works is that when the washer discharges, the
flow rate exceeds the unpressurized flow rate of the trap, so
water backs up into the stand pipe and water level in the stand
pipe rises.  This continues until the water level is high enough 
so that the pressure at the trap is high enough for the flow 
rate to equal the discharge rate of the washer.  At this point water level
hopefully stablizes below the top of the stand pipe.  When the washer 
pump stops, water is siphoned back into the washer due to gravity,
but the stand pipe provides venting and allows air to enter, thus 
preventing sewer stuff from being siphoned into the washer.

Is there anything wrong with this arrangement before I try it?
I hate mopping the basement and having to run to the hardware 
store too many times.

By the way, if this works, does it obey plumbing code?


Thanks,
/tom


                  |  |              |         |
           stand  |  |              |         |
           pipe   |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
                  |  |              |         |
         /--------   |              |         |
        /  -------   |              |         |
       /  /       |  |              |         |
   to washer      |  |              |         |
                  |  |       /------          |
                  \  \      /  -----          |
                   \  \    /  /     |         |
          trap ->   \  ----  /      |         |
                     \------/       |         |
                                    |         |
                                  main sewer pipe

    If you are really as close to the main waste line as the picture shows,
    I think I would be hesitant to do that without the check valve. By the
    way, I finally wound up following the advice I was given at the
    plumbing supply and just wrapping duct tape around the washer hose and
    the top of the standpipe to prevent it from overflowing. It seems to be
    working fine, but I'm a long way from the main waste line, so I figured
    there wasn't much chance of the water getting sucked out of the trap
    and allowing sewage gas to back up through the washer. I also don't
    believe that the washer hose has enough volume to cause it to siphon
    out the trap when the washer shuts off (I put in a 2" trap).
    
    I think this would work for you if you are some distance from the
    main waste. Otherwise, I'd go with a check valve.
    
    - Ram

RE: -.1

Yes, I'm only inches from the main waste line, that's why
I'm worried about siphoning.  What kind of check valve
are you thinking of?  A one way type valve that allows
water to go out but not come in to be put in-line with
the washer drain hose?  Or a air suction valved described
previously that allows venting to break the siphoning action?

Which kind of valve should I use and where should I put it?

Thanks for the reply,
/tom

    I was thinking of a valve to check the back-flow, but I can't really
    help because I was never able to locate such a thing. I am just
    going on the assumption it must exist in some form.

    - Ram

    
    Last night I took the pump off the washing machine because it was
    leaking. It was leaking from the shaft that attaches to to pulley
    that powers the pump.  
    
    What I found was a worn washer/seal at the base of the shaft. I
    took a faucet washer and put it, plus the worn seal back together.
    
    Will This Last????? or am i just postponing the inevitable. The
    pump is fine, mechanically, just the seal leaks. Is there some
    other material that i should have used instead of the neoprene????
    
    The new washer also made the pulley harder to turn, requiring
    me to tighten up on the fan belt. This caused some squeaking
    from the belt when running, but did stop the leak.
    
    Anyone experienced in this type of repair??????
        (or am I in the wrong note) 
    
    Steve
    

      There are stores which specialize in selling repair parts for
    appliances. You should be able to get the exact seal you need at
    one of these. There aren't a lot of them, but there are some around.
    I know of one in Nashua NH. Just a hole in the wall, but can get anything
    you need.
    
    					Kenny

    
    Well my temporary fix was just that....temporary. One day of washing
    and kaput, water all over the place. 
    
    New pump = $34  Finis! and fixed.

This problem has been with me for years and I want to fix it now that I've
finished my family room , laundry room and extra bedroom in the basement.

The tank works fine, we use Ridex often and degradable paper.
The problem occurs when the tank gets full enough so the level is such that the
paper can float accross and get stopped by the baffle in the tank and pile
up into the soil pipe.

I really wouldn't mind so much if the only problem was the toilet backing up
once in a while. You usually get some warning. The thing that really
bugs me about this is the way the laundry system is connected.

The drain from the washing machine goes into a trap that is connect to the
soil pipe. When things backup into the soil pipe it comes out the laundry
drain!!! 

Now I can solve this problem by getting the tank pumped. But that only lasts
until the level is up again and then without warning I've got a mess in the
laundry room!

Anyone got suggestions on how to fix this one?
Can I alter the baffle to let the paper go further into the tank without
screwing it up?

Is there some kind of check valve I can put on the laundry drain/trap?

Here's a picture as best as I can do. (obviously not to scale or complete)
/tb/
    

Washing mach. hose goes here                     top of Tank 
and water exits!               |--------------------------------
         V                    ||  Paper backs up here
        ||                    ||       |      
--------||------------------------     V     ||  <--Baffle in tank
        ||      <-------- ###################||
        ||   ||           ###################||
---------\\_//--------------------...........||<---liquid/solid level
          \-/                 ||             ||
           ^                  ||             ||
           |                  ||            
           |                  ||_______________________________          
 Drain for laundy             |_________________________________
                                      bottom of tank


                     
              


    

    I think that the problem is your laundry trap is too close to the
    septic level. The back pressure is sufficient to cause the laundry trap
    to backup. We had a similar problem in our last house and solved it by
    taping the connection between the washer discharge hose and the trap.
    Got away without using a check valve though it would probably be a good
    idea. 
    
    - Rich

    You might also try to install a deep sink between the washer trap
    and the washer. Then discharge the washer into the sink and let
    the sink drain into the septic. My guess is that the washer discharge
    velocity might also be c contributing factor, thats the reason for
    the deep sink. The sink will drain at a much slower velocity thus
    releaving the rapid discharge into the septic inlet.
    
    P.S. I'd recommend getting the washer out of the septic system.
    You could install a small drywell or even let it run out onto the
    lawn (if this is allowed). Washers dump alot of water into a septic
    tank fast (50 - 60 gals/wash) thus turning them into a sewage blender.
    As a result, things don't get to settle down and separate properly
    and solids may work their way into your leach field, plugging the
    whole mess up. 

    What kind of toilet paper are you using?  Maybe change to the
    designed-for-septic-systems stuff?

re: .1

	The trap probably IS too close to the septic level but I don't like
	the idea of taping up the hose connection ... then the backup
	could go into the washing machine. ugh!


	The back pressure is casued by the paper plugging up the outlet
	of the soil pipe.


re: .2

	The sink won't help. I failed to mention that the washing machine
	is BELOW the level of the septic tank.

	Yes I think I may just have to get the washing machine out
	of the system. Anyone know what note discusses dry-wells?

	That still won't solve the problem of the
	paper backing up into the soil pipe.

re: .3

	Is there a particular brand that's designed-for-septic?
	There are a couple of brands that cause more problems than
	others - I'd have to ask the boss which ones. I don't know
	which brand she's been getting lately. I'll check it out.

/tb/

    

    I've seen some special toilet paper in marine-supply places, for
    use in boat toilets, but it may be a bit expensive.  I've had good 
    luck with Scott Tissue.  Colored paper, of any kind, seems to be
    a no-no, and I think the super-soft stuff tends to be worse too.
    
    By chance do you have some kids who typically use vast quantities of
    TP?  Perhaps a few words on the home front might help.    

    Read the fine print on the packaging; it should say "safe for all
    septic systems" or "septic tank safe" or some such.  Also, it should
    have minimum (none) perfume and no color (ie, white).  Charmin (white,
    only) and Northern brands are two such.

    You might try and check how well water is flowing a) from the
    septic tank to the distribution box, and b) from the d-box to the
    leaching field.  I had a busted pipe between the tank and d-box
    and the system backed up into the basement when we used the
    washer (and very occasionally when a toilet was flushed).
    When the cover was pulled off the baffle, I found the same
    thing you've found.  The baffle was very clogged with TP, etc.
    Unclogging the baffle would take care of the problem until
    the next load of laundry.  The real problem was that the
    tank itself was not able to dump a sufficient amount of
    water out to the d-box and the tank remained very full of water.
    This allowed the paper, etc to get caught in the baffle.
    
    When we pulled the cover off the d-box, it looked pretty dry,
    and trying to run a snake through the tank-to-d-box pipe could
    not be done.  Digging up the pipe turned up the crushed pipe.
                                            
    If you don't have a broken pipe or clogged leaching field,
    the system should be able to handle the output from a washer
    without backing up.  I still prefer the idea of installing
    a drywell for the washer, though.  I am thinking of having
    one put in myself.

    Problem found!
    
    I had my neighbor (pro plumber) take a look last night. We discovered
    that the outlet side of the tank is installed too high. That's what
    regulates the level in teh tank. It's too high so the paper does
    not drop when it enters the tank.
    
    I dug up the outlet pipe to discover if I had enough drop available
    between the tank and the distribution box so I can lower the outlet.
    
    Looks like I can. The bad news is I have yet to find the d-box!
    The oulet goes nice an straight about 15ft and then there is a
    90 deg turn! I have not finished digging but I beginning to get
    a real bad feeling about the folks that installed this system 12
    years ago.
    
    To give you an idea of the quality of their work...the oulet pipe
    actually has a kink in it where they "adjusted" it to get it to
    the tank (too high no less!).
    
    Thanks for all the advise - looks like I can do this myself with
    a little help from the pump man ( really don't want to lower that
    outlet with the tank full!)
    
    /tb/
    

    re: .8
    
    Not all systems with a leach field use a distribution box.  Some
    have a branching treee set up like this.
    
    
    +--------+
    | septic |===============================================
    | tank   |                      |       |       |       |
    +--------+                      |       |       |       |
                                    |       |       |       |
                                    |       |       |       | <---leach
                                    |       |       |       |     field
                                    |       |       |       |
                                    |       |       |       |
    
    
-willie    
    
    
    

    Yeh...that's what I expected too.
    
    So far I have this
    
    
    +---------+
    |         |
    |         ----------------------------
    |         |                           |
    +---------+                           |
                                          |
                                          |
    
    I'll dig some more - it may just go out further before it hit a
    box. From some of the other things the builder did with this house
    nothing would suprise me! Even finding a 1 pipe drainage field!
    
    /tb/
    

    
    
    	Need information about washers and dryers (electric). I have
    a dryer that is no longer giving hot air. When it died there was
    a burning type smell to it. Before that (weeks) it would not start
    after two or three loads worth. But, if you gave it a good rest
    period it would work again. It's an old Maytag but I would like
    to fix it if possible ...any ideas.....???
    
    
    	I also have a portable electric washer which doesn't go into
    the spin cycle from time to time. I tried to manually place it into
    a spin a few times . It normally worked but when it didn't I had
    to lift the lid until the reset clicked in then the cycle would
    start. Any ideas ?????
    
    
    
    trying to do it myself
    
    leo

        Well, the dryer may have some sort of temperature limiting
        relay that has bit the dust, or maybe you've blown out the
        heating element.  Either of these could be the source of the
        burning smell.  Also, possibly the control switch, but the
        symptom of not starting after several loads suggests some sort
        of over-temperature limit relay.  You need to get the wiring
        diagrams for the unit (are they in the owner's manual?) and
        start checking for an open circuit.
        
        As for the portable electric washer, that sounds like the control
        switch has bit the dust.  Once again, you probably need to
        get the circuit diagrams and start checking the control circuits,
        but it's probably fixable if you can get to the switch to replace
        it (and if you can get the parts, should not be impossible
        if it's a major brand, do you have the owner's manual / repair
        info?).
        
        Tom

    Oodles of notes have been written on these subjects.  You may
    want to check out #478, 910 & 1194 for your dryer problems,
    and #696, 962 & 965 for your washer problems.

        Also on the washer, they usually have a relay/switch to make
        sure the load is balanced, to avoid damage if the load is too
        much off-center.  That could be the problem, too.  Again, it's
        probably a fairly cheap part, but possibly a nuisance to get
        to it to replace it IF it's what's bad.
        
        Tom

    If you have fuses, check them first.  My dryer is on a sub-panel
    with 2 fuses.  If one of them blows, the heat element doesn't work,
    but the dryer stills spins.

    
    
    	My best friend owns an appliance repair shop and he sees this
    thing all the time. Electrical parts are not returnable and when
    you buy them you own them. Most of the time customers spend more
    money on the parts to fix an electrical problem then it would have
    cost for the repair man to come out.
	Just my $.02
    
    	-Steve-
    
    

    Just want to second .4.  This has happened to me several times and
    I have always found that one of the two fuses had blown.
    
    If cartridge-type, check each one for continuity (after removing
    them from the box, of course).  Chances are you'll find one is gone
    (no continuity) and the other is OK.
    
    Pete

    RE: .5
    
    Usually true, but Sears did take electrical parts back for me. 
    One was even a special order.  They charged me $1 to send it back.
    Unbelievably reasonable, I thought!

    RE the dryer. Once apart, you'll find the area under behind and
    in the flu full of lint dust. You might have a vacuum handy to rid
    of the stuff.
    
    /cal

	My washing machine has a strange problem.  It does not go through
	the washing cycle (when I use NORMAL mode), it makes a spattering 
	sound during this cycle. However, when I am using the GENTLE mode, 
	it does the washing, but, it leaves water in the drum at the end.  
 
	Can this idiosyncracy be the Timer, loose connection somewhere ???  
	If it is the timer then I can replace it, however, before I spend 
	$ 68 , I thought I will ask the experienced folks in this 
	conference for their input.

What brand is it?

GE, Whirlpool and likely others have telephone numbers that you can call to ask 
such questions. Some are 800 numbers.

    
    There are loads (HA!) of notes in here dealing with flakey washers.
    Have you looked there yet?
    
    Was the washer just installed or has it been running well until now?

    

    Is your washer in your basement, and if so, what's the
    temperature?
    

	Re: .1
		It is a Whirlpool washer, and I called the 800 number
		and the person thought it may be a belt problem, however,
		I have checked the belt - the tension seems okay.  Also,
		if it was a belt problem then the drum will not spin -
		so I assume the belt is ok.

		His next suggestion was to contact the approved Whirlpool
		repair shop in this area.  I shall call them after all
		my efforts are exhausted.

	Re: .2
		I looked up the other notes on this subject, but none
		seemed to address a problem like this one.

	Re: .3
		The washer is in the basement, but my basement does not
		get very cold (below 0 deg C), so freezing can be ruled
		out, I guess.

	All:
		The washer is old (5 yrs, maybe) since I bought it used.
		It was working fine for about a year now.  What perplexes
		me is the fact that the behaviour is not consistent in
		the various modes (NORMAL,GENTLE,PERMANENT PRESS) etc.

    

>    		It is a Whirlpool washer, and I called the 800 number
>		and the person thought it may be a belt problem, however,

    
    Does it have the Magic Filter?  (It would say so right on the machine).
    If so, it can become clogged.  You
    can bypass the filter pretty easily.  I'd bet your problem is either
    the pump or the filter and not the timer, since your real problem
    is that the water doesn't drain out.
    
>    		I have checked the belt - the tension seems okay.  Also,
>		if it was a belt problem then the drum will not spin -
>		so I assume the belt is ok.
    
    Not necessarily.  The belt can spin the drum and still be too loose
    to turn the pump, but if you say the tension is okay, it probably
    is.
    
    My guess is that you need a new pump.  These are easy to replace.

    Check to see if water reaches the pump.  If it does, then the pump
    is your problem.
    

    I just went through this exercise last week! Best bet is to take
    a VOM, find the wiring chart, set the timer to the problem cycle
    and start checking voltage at the end of the wiring harness. (Connector
    at the motor). In my case the water would fill but the motor would
    never turn on to wash, spin or pump. Also, the timer would just
    wind away to the end of the cycle. First thing I found was that
    the timer was bad. Installed new timer and heard the motor hum away. 
    (Wouldn't start.) Pulled the pump off and found a sock sticking out of the
    inlet and outlet. Evidently the pump stalled the motor and the timer
    fried! Probably could have reused that pump, but decided
    to spend the $20 for a new one. Timer, BTW, cost $75
            
    
    
    
    
    

    Timers are expensive and fail several times in the life of a washer.
    Therefore, I've learned to fix them at the first sign of trouble.
    
    The timer consists of a clock motor driving a pile of cams that
    operate a dozen or so switches.  The switches' contacts frequently
    become pitted and burned as they switch large motor loads or highly
    inductive water-valve loads.  I carefully remove the timer, writing
    down exactly where all the wires go, take it apart and then clean
    the contacts with VERY fine sand paper.  Be very careful putting
    it back together to make sure that the switches ride on the cams
    and don't get stuck between them.  Then reconnect the wires as they
    were.
    
    My Maytag has lasted through 7 people (including lots of diapers)
    for over 15 years, thanks to periodic cleaning of the contacts.
    
    doug
    

    RE:-1 I tried to repair my "burnt" timer, However a couple of the
    contacts looked like they experienced a meltdown! I agree that it's
    worth a look before spending $70+ for a new one!

Anyone knows the everage life for the belt inside the washer? It seems that
my 3 year old Sears washing machine is having a loose belt. Once in a while,
the machine won't spin at all, I opened the back, the motor was running,
but the belt was not. Any thought? If it is the belt, has anyone done the
replacement before?

Thanks in advance for any idea.

    If the belt is loose, then it doesn't need to be replaced, it needs
    to be tightened.  There is a bolt which is in a rectangular shaped
    hole that you can loosen and pry back along the hole, then tighten
    again.  You can use a long screwdriver to pry it back to where the
    belt will be tight.  

    I can't give much more details. I've tightened one once on
    a whirlpool, and I've seen the same setup on my Sears.

    I can't remember if you access it thru the bottom of the washer
    or thru the back.  But it's not very far inside.
    

    
     On the sears machine the nut for motor is on the left hand side
    of the machine looking from the back. It is right above the motor
    and there is a slotted adjustment groove. Loosen the nut and slide
    the motor to the left to tighten the belt. The spec says the belt
    should deflect a 1/2" with 9-10lbs of pressure applied to the belt
    between the motor and the large pulley. You want to know why I know
    all this??? I just replaced the belt and the pump in my ten year
    old sears washer this past weekend.
    
     Now if I can only figure out why the spin cycle doesn't work
    anymore!!!! Anybody got any ideas???? No leaks anymore but no spin
    either. I knew something was wrong when the belt and the new pump
    went right in with no problems or skinned knuckles. I'll have to 
    look at the clutch mechanism again. a big sigh!!!
    
    
      -mike
    

    
       The no spin problem was caused by the spin clutch activator rod
     not being seated properly into the clutch plate. It was an easy
     fix but I had to drop the transmission down again to properly seat
     the activator rod. A pain in the butt to do but an easy fix.
    
      -mike
    

    What does it involve to convert from 110V to 220V?  I just bought
    a condo which has a washer/dryer hookup, but no 220V for the dryer.
    How expensive is it - can anyone recommend an electrician (I'm in
    the Lowell, MA area).
    
    Also (this may be a stupid question) - I have gas heat, so is it
    possible to use the gas for the dryer as well - somehow?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    Sue
    

>    What does it involve to convert from 110V to 220V?  I just bought
>    a condo which has a washer/dryer hookup, but no 220V for the dryer.
>    How expensive is it - can anyone recommend an electrician (I'm in
>    the Lowell, MA area).
  
There is no "conversion" process.  The 220 is there already.  It just
requires a double pole breaker of the appropriate amperage installed in
the panel.  See one of the notes in the 2000-2050 range for recommendations for
electricians.

>    Also (this may be a stupid question) - I have gas heat, so is it
>    possible to use the gas for the dryer as well - somehow?
 
Not a stupid question at all--  Gas dryers are as readily available as 
electric.   

							--Mike

    I would recommend talking to an electrician and/or the builder of
    the condo. See what provision was made. I always assume GAS and
    220 are available. A few times GAS is NOT available in new construction
    and I have NEVER heard of 220 NOT being available SOMEWHERE for
    you to get to. (Although it DOES require and electrician or similiarly
    experienced person
    in most cases to get at it (in a condo situation).
    
    M
    

    	I believe that there are gas dryers available that run off
    110v so you wont have to bother with 220. 

as far as I know
ALL gas dryers run off 110V (15A)

The last time I looked (it's been a while), there were wiring 
directions on the back side of the access cover of my 220v electric 
dryer. If I recall correctly, there were instructions on wiring the 
thing for a 110V supply. I assume it would not dry as quickly when 
wired like this. 

It's about a 10 year old GE.

Chuck

My gas dryer uses 110.

/Dave

    I'm looking for specific information on replacing the motor in a
    Kenmore dryer, and would appreciate hearing from anyone who's done
    it. The dryer is 14 years old and otherwise appears in good shape.
    The symptom is that when you try to start it, sometimes it will
    buzz loudly and then quiet down and begin to tumble after a few
    seconds, and other times it will just sit there and buzz for as
    long as you press the start switch, like an overloaded electric
    drill. A repairperson had previously stated that the motor would
    soon need replacing. Since this particular dryer belongs to my mother,
    and is 200+ miles from my home, I'd like to have the proper parts
    and tools to get it done right the first time. My mother will order
    the motor; are there other replacement parts that should also be
    on hand? Any special tools, procedural gotcha'a, etc?

    We need to find a way to make sure we can use washer and dryer 
    OUTDOOR! 
        
    This may sound stange, but we have a need to move our washer and dryer
    to outside or our garage(not heated) to allow public access. There are
    more than one family need to access them. 
    
    The problem is that we assume the water left in the washer can not be
    drained completely and will freeze and rupture the pump in the winter.
    The ideal solusion is to find a washer that will drain all the water so
    this doesn't happen. 
    
    May be we have washer experts here to tell us if this assumption
    is true or not.

    If the assumption is correct (will freeze) and if we can't find
    a washer which doesn't trap water, the alternative is to build a
    shed around to keep the washer warm all winter. This is the last
    and costly resort, and we may just have to do it.
    
    Anyone out there have outdoor washer experience? 
    
    Thinking fiarsely!
    
    REgards, -Grace
    
    

    My washer and probably most washer DO store some water in the pump.  My
    Maytap simply runs the pump backwards to keep the water in and reverses
    it to keep the water out.  If the drain hose were to be lower than the
    washer, it would simply empty itself by gravity.  Many years ago, I had
    a G.E. which had a real valve in the drain.  I was able to completly
    drain it by placing the machine upstairs and running the hose through
    the floor.  (I did this to bypass the broken pump, which I didn't care
    to replace.)  The real answer is: it depends on the machine and how it
    is placed relative to the drain.
    
    BTW, Don't forget about freezing of the feed lines, hoses and valves,
    including the electro-valve in the machine itself.
    

    I would definitely NOT put a washer outside.  How big is the garage?
    Is it large enough to put a small wall around the washer and dryer?
    
    How about an electric heater set to heat the small room to just
    above freezing (on a thermostat).  That would give you 24 hour 
    protection and you could turn it up when the machines are in use.
    
    Bob O.
      
    
    

    I can tell you about Sears washers.  I assume others work the same
    way.
    
    Water remains in the pump while the washer is off.  When it freezes,
    no damage occurs until you try to run the washer.  There is a metal
    arm that sticks out of the pump that moves about 45 degrees to turn
    the pump on and off.  When the mechanism tries to turn the arm and
    the pump is frozen, the arm bends and the pump can't be operated.
    To fix it you have to remove the pump and rebend the arm in the
    proper position.  (If you call a repair person, they'll just replace
    the whole pump, unnecessarily).  
    
    There shouldn't be any problem storing the washer outside as long
    as you make sure it's all thawed out before using it.  Also, realize
    how long it takes for ice to thaw at 40 degrees.  It probably has
    to remain above freezing for several days before you can use it.
    
    I'd build a small shed and put the washer inside it.  Turn on a
    heater in the shed 6 hours before you want to use it.
        

        First of all, I don't think you'll find an automatic washer
        that doesn't leave some water in the pump when it is idle.

        Secondly, do you want to rely on the machine never freezing
        up during "normal" use?  Any washer can be left stopped in
        mid-cycle, at least by using the on/off switch and usually
        also by the lid being raised.  And many washers turn off if a
        load is unbalanced .  If the machine is accidentally left in
        such a state during freezing weather, you could wind up with
        a total loss if the tub and pump freeze.  Do you really want
        to take the chance that the user will never get distracted
        (by the phone or a child) or forgetful?

        But even if you could accept this risk, don't forget that a
        washer -- even a wringer washer -- needs a water supply.  How
        will you keep THAT from freezing up, including the connecting
        hoses, during freezing weather?

        Bob

    Don't forget that your energy consumption will be higher with the
    dryer outside in the winter. The dryer has to get the air from
    somewhere, then heat it up. This either means more energy to heat
    it to the same temperture, or more energy since the dryer must run
    longer.
    
    	Marty Sasaki

    Hey, everyone's reply is so helpful!
    
    I guess what we have to do is to partition the garage just large
    enought to keep the washer warm. Use washer one day/per week so
    that we only need to turn on the heater for that day.
    
    Wrap all exposed water pipes with electric heater wire to prevent freezing.
    What is the electro-valve in the washer that .1 referred to? Can
    i wrap it with heat wire or just insulate it.
    
    I would like to open another question...Drainage Our plumer suggested
    to dig a drywell in the back of the garage to dispose the water
    according to code. This involves perk test, and digging ($1400 job). We
    would like to have a second opinion on this if anyone know an
    alternative. 
    
    To give you a clear picture... There is a heater, furnice in the
    garage set up for the living quarter upstairs. There is even a drain
    pipe in the garage along the ceiling (8 feet from floor) connect
    to the main house. The plumber forfeit the use of this drain pipe
    because the washer just won't pump water so high and an auxillary
    pump will cost $300 (not include labor), and there is always a chance
    to break.
    
    Ya, someone has suggested to jack the washer on a 2 feet
    platform to reduce the height, still 6 feet is too high and the
    pump in the washer's will not last for a year. 
    
    I probably should reframed from telling you the whole story,
    to give you a clean slat to explore your idea!

    
    REgards,
    -Grace

    A lightbulb placed inside the washer (in the back, under the tub)
    will keep the washer from freezing.  Turn the light on when the
    temperature drops.
    
    This approach is only recommended if the washer will see short periods
    of below 32 degree weather.  If the washer will be exposed to sustained
    low temperatures (like a New England winter!), the washer, water
    lines, etc. will have to be protected and heated.

    Unless you want to keep water circulating through the machine
    and connections, I don't see how you can keep it from freezing.
    Heating it once a week won't help and once the pump freezes
    it takes forever to thaw.  And, if anything thaws too fast, it
    breaks.
    
    In case you're wondering how I know, we had a washer backed
    up to the kitchen in an unheated mudroom.  We now have a new
    one, moved into the main part of the house.
    

    We recently moved our ~5-year old Whirlpool washer.  When I moved
    it, there was some oil speckles all over the floor underneath. 
    I don't know anything about washers, but would guess that the motor
    or transmission (there is one, right) is leaking somehow.
    
    Any ideas on costs to repair?  Is it easy enough to DIY or should
    I get the repairman to fix it?
    
    I'm trying to determine the break-even point for this washer to
    be repaired vs buying a new one.  Seems like a washer should last
    at least 10 years?
    
    	Ted

    If it's just "speckles" you may not have to worry about it at all.
    I probably wouldn't worry about it unless it started to be a
    "puddle".  

    I have a WHIRLPOOL LA5580XK. We put some rugs in it a few times
    that became lopsided and thrashed around to the point that a banging
    noise resulted. It sounded like the drum was hitting against the
    washer enclosure. Now a small load will cause the same problem. 
    
    I opened up the top to look at the spring loaded disk that pushes down
    on the drum to keep it from rocking around so wildly. What is this
    supposed to look like?? It looks fine to me but of course I've never
    seen one before. Could this be the problem or is it something
    underneath like rollers???
    
    When I grab a hold of the tub, I can wobble it into the back of
    the enclosure. 
    
    The shock mounted rods that the tub is suspended from seem fine.
    
    Harry
     
    
    

    We also have a Whirlpool; it does this occasionally.  Pry up the
    spring loaded damper (it takes a lot of force) and wipe the 
    mating skid plate and damper face with a non-linty towel; don't
    remove all teh lubricant, just clean it up and spread it around
    evenly.  If you call a washer repairman, this simple fix will
    cost you anywhere from $40 - $70.  It's worth a try.
    
    pbm
    

    Woops...
    
    I cleaned both surfaces completely. The damper is plastic though,
    does it really need a lubricant? Mine was all covered with old soap
    residue etc. Wouldn't that act as a lubricant?? If I do have to
    replace the lubricant, what do I use?
    
    Does Whirlpool have an 800 number?
    
    Harry
    
    
    

  I couldn't find this problem elsewhere in here so I'm starting a new note.

 I've just moved into an old 2 bedroom house with only one entrance (door) 
which is in the inside of the house. The problem I have is the Washer and 
Dryer has been set up in the spare bed room by the previous owners and MUST
be brought downstairs to the cellar for use of bedroom. So far so good, well
the washer and dryer will not fit through the door to go down stairs. Even
if I took the door and casing off it won't fit.

 I've been told you can take the washer and dryer apart and bring them down
in sections, has anyone done this? Are there people who will do this for you?
repairmen maybe? I rather not do this myself unless it's not too difficult,
once it's down there I want it to work again. In case it matters the washer
and dryer are Whirlpool.
 
 Would appreciate any help, this needs to be done yesterday.

Ted

    Not even sideways and upside down?  I'm not sure taking the washer
    or dryer apart will help you much; my impression is that the main
    case of a washer or dryer is basically one piece, so short of bending
    somthing it won't get much smaller.  
    THe great burning question is: How did they get in the room in the
    first place???
    
    Through the window, maybe???

    >Not even sideways and upside down?
    
      I can understand sideways which would be it's smallest width,
    but upside down??? Do you mean the top through the door first?
    
      
    >The great burning question is: How did they get in the room in the
    >first place???
    
    
     There is no problem moving it about through the bedroom and hall
    doorways, the problem lies with the cellar doorway, It's width is
    smaller than the washer, and dryers smallest width. I'll check again
    for exact sizes when I get home tonight.
    
    

    How about cutting a hole through the floor.  You would probably
    have to cut only one floor joice, and I dont think it would be too 
    difficult to repair after, especially if you have carpeting.
    
    
    

    The "upside down" part was a feeble attempt at humor...forget it.
    
    I misinterpreted your note the first time around - I thought the
    problem was with the bedroom door, and was really confused!  But
    on to the cellar door....  
    First thing I guess is to take a close look at what the dimensions
    are of the largest piece(s), to see if the taking apart business
    will help at all.  I'm trying to remember how mine are put together,
    and am not doing very well.  If you decide that taking apart *will*
    help, don't be too afraid of doing it yourself.  If you start taking
    them apart you will probably be amazed at how simple washers and
    dryers really are.  Just a few guidelines:
    1. The first rule of intelligent tinkering is to save all the parts.
    2. Put labels on everything, especially wires.
    3. Draw diagrams and pictures; don't rely on your memory.
    4. Put nuts and bolts and screws back in the holes where they go,
       and you won't lose them or forget which one goes where.
    5. Order of disassembly (and assembly) may be important; if it's
       not wanting to come apart, see if perhaps some other part ought
       to come off first.

      Does your cellar have an outside entrance? If it does, could you
    bring the washer and dryer outside, and then into the cellar through
    the outside entrance?
    
    					Kenny 

     I reread .0 and realized I didn't make things too clear about the
    door. What I meant to say is there is only one entrance to the cellar 
    and thats inside the house. The door to the cellar is a smaller width
    than the average door. Sorry about the confusion!   
    
    re .4 I thought you were kidding at first, but I've seen serious
    answers in here that boarded on insanity. 8-) 
    
    Ted
    
    

    
    did you remove the basement door? you might gain a couple inches
    by removing it from it's hindges.

    I just bought a house and will be moving in late December.  I was planning
   on buying a washer, dryer and refridgerator to be delevered the day after
   I move.  I never even considered whether the appliances would fit through
   the door or not.  I haven't purchased them yet so it isn't too late, but is
   it common for appliances not to fit through doors?  Assuming that I have
   standard sized doors, should I be worried about them fitting through?
   What size is a "standard" size door?  Since the sellers of the house are
   still living there I can't just measure the doorways without making
   arrangements to stop by at a mutually convenient time.  Should I make a
   point of doing this?

   -Kurt*

re .8:

Standard door sizes these days for exterior doors are 32" or 36" wide.
Interior doors are usually I guess 28" to 32".  In older homes, doorways,
especially the cellar door, are often smaller.  It would be a very good 
idea to check the widths of the doors before ordering.

re .0:

Regarding getting the washer/drier into the cellar -- have you considered
installing a bulkhead?  I know, it's an insane idea if the only point is
to get the washer/drier downstairs, but having a door directly to the
outside from the cellar can be useful -- you may want to hang clothes to
dry outside (and not want to walk the long way around), you may want to put 
a freezer down there, or you may need to store large objects that there is
no room for upstairs.  Or suppose you decide to renovate and need to
store 4' x 8' plywood or panelling?  If your cellar stairs turn, then
that also may not fit down the stairs and you'll be living with it
upstairs until the project is done.  

	Larry

This might be the time to think about building a bigger door to the cellar.   
I would bet my last dollar that the washer would not if you took it apart 
and put it back together.  I would think that widening the opening would be 
easier then cutting a hole in the floor and would be more usable in the future.

	Brian, who had to remove a window to get a queen size box spring 
	upstairs because the the clearence in the stairs was 2" to short
	(a code violation:-). Thank God I had a double wide window or I would
	have been out $500 bucks.

re:.6

>    re .4 I thought you were kidding at first, but I've seen serious
>    answers in here that boarded on insanity. 8-) 
    
Do they room there too? :^)

Paul

	I just looked at my washer, also a W-pool.  The sheetmetal
	body looks as if it would get very upset if it was bent
	out of square.  And unless you squash the body into a
	non-rectangular parallelogram, you can't shrink it to fit
	through a narrow door.

	How about selling your washer and dryer, and buying a set
	of those compact units that stack on top of each other, the
	kind made for apartments?

	Or sell your house, and move to a house with a bigger door.
	(So why do you think the previous owners sold?)

	I bet you can't make the door wider, because it opens onto
	a narrow stairwell, right?  So if you _could_ get the machines
	through the door, they wouldn't fit into the stairwell.  This
	means you have to move a wall to widen the stairs.

	If I were you, I'd reevaluate the importance of moving the 
	machines out of the second bedroom.  It's probably easier
	to blend them into the decor.

	Regards, Robert.

    	I don't think you'll be able to take the metal box apart, move
    the pieces and then reassemble the washer.  I had a similar problem
    in my old house and ended up putting in a larger door in the cellar
    (no fun).  I thought the standard sizes of washers, dryers and 'fridges
    (without doors) was 28" wide?
    	My folks house was built for a man in a wheelchair.  It has
    36" interior doors, 42" exterior doors and a 48" square shower!           
    It's a breeze to move things in and out.
    				=Ralph=                                                 
    

    Well I didn't get a chance to measure the door and washer last night
and forgot to do it this morning. I'm going home at lunch time so I'll
check then.


  re .9:

 > Regarding getting the washer/drier into the cellar -- have you considered
 > installing a bulkhead? 

   A bulkheads out of the question, no place for one.
 
 >                          Or suppose you decide to renovate and need to
 > store 4' x 8' plywood or panelling?  If your cellar stairs turn, then
 > that also may not fit down the stairs and you'll be living with it
 > upstairs until the project is done.  


   When I moved I had a couple sheets of 4' X 8' plywood brought with me,
their now in the garage. (It's a small detached one so please don't suggest
I put the washer and dryer there.)

  RE .12


>	How about selling your washer and dryer, and buying a set
>	of those compact units that stack on top of each other, the
>	kind made for apartments?
        
        If I have too I will, I'd rather make it a last resort do
        to the size (clothes capasity) of it, if they are smaller.
       
     
>	Or sell your house, and move to a house with a bigger door.
>	(So why do you think the previous owners sold?)

        Previous Owners are getting divorced, 8^( Which is why I got
        a good deal 8^). The house has been renovated inside and out
        including inground pool. They origionally moved it (Washer,Dryer)
        from the kitchen. They had no kids so for 2 people it makes
        a perfect laundry room. 


>	I bet you can't make the door wider, because it opens onto
>	a narrow stairwell, right?  
  
                 The stairwell is narrow, have to check the casing
         on the door.

>                                  So if you _could_ get the machines
>	through the door, they wouldn't fit into the stairwell.  This
>	means you have to move a wall to widen the stairs.

                  This I'm going to have to check! I know the stairwell
        is not smaller then the door opening with casing on.

>	If I were you, I'd reevaluate the importance of moving the 
>	machines out of the second bedroom.  It's probably easier
>	to blend them into the decore.

        Bedroom is small enough with just a twin bed, etc... This
        is going to be done one way or another.

 good ideas so far, after I measure, it should eliminate some questions.

Ted
                                                                  

    Do you have any large windows that can be removed?
    
    Jim

     
     No, it has the basic small rectangular windows.
    
    Ted 

    Ted, the only reason I mentioned the window was that my neighbor
    removed a window to put in large sectional for their living room.
    An upholster wanted $300 to take it apart and it cost a tube of
    caulk to replace the picture window.
    
    Jim
    
    I put in an 8' slider to move furniture in and out. My wife changes
    our house like most people change their sheets. We have a living
    room set that is only a year old, now she doesn't like the color.
    Guess where we'er going tonight......(she makes more money than
    I do........knock your self out honey.

    
       Well I measured the Cellar Doorway, the Washer, and Dryer.
    
     The Doorway measures 24 1/2 inches with casing and 27 inches
     without the casing.
    
     The Washer is 25 1/2 inches sideways!! Close but I think it'll
    squeeze through. 8^)
    
     The Dryer is basicly the same size except the drum extends out
    the back and extra 2 1/2 inches for a total of 28 inches. 8-( 
    
     When you open the dryer door you can see that it's just the back
    wall of the drum that sticks out. When the drum turns the back 
    is stationary. There are screws on the outside back of the dryer 
    to remove the back of this extra section, but will I be able to
    remove the back of the drum??? Clear as mud, right? 
    
    Ted   
    
    
    

    Sounds like you may have to take part of the door frame off, if the
    dryer won't fit through even dismantled after you take the door off the
    hinges.  Not much fun, but do-able...
    
    Reminds me of bringing my hsuabnd's pinball machines into our basement
    - the largest one sat in the garage for years because it would not fit
    through the door, let alone dodge the furnace that is right next to the
    door in order to get it inside the basement from there.  We did finally
    take the door off and part of the frame, as well as the door on the
    other side of the furnace (from the utility room to the rest of the
    basement) and got it in.  I hope it is a long time before we have to
    get it OUT again, too!   It was also so heavy (this thing is an old
    mechanical "shooting-gallery" - it is something like 38" wide by 42" by
    more than 6' high, and weighs about 300 lbs.) that we have to use a
    bunch of broomsticks as rollers for it (no room to put it on a dolly).
    
    My father-in-law's addition to his house (the addition is maybe 5 years
    old) has at least one door that is only 24" wide, into a bathroom -
    it's like walking into the linen closet!  OK unless you are carrying
    something big.  There was some good reason why a normal-width (32" or
    36") door could not be used; I think the door, which is in a sort of
    elbow corner of the big master bath, is between the wall to a bedroom
    and a load-bearing wall, or something. 

    Most driers are fairly uncomplicated.  I'd look at removing the
    back and then the drum (usually belt-driven).
    
    It sounds like you have no problem with the washer if you remove
    the door casing.

re .-1:

>    Most driers are fairly uncomplicated.  I'd look at removing the
>    back and then the drum (usually belt-driven).
    
    Didn't he say it was a Whirlpool?  They use direct-drive.

    I bought a refrigerator too big for my doors.  Had to remove the
    frig doors and almost the doorframe.  Door frame removal can at
    least make for a memorable story.  A friend of mine had to move
    a piece of furniture into an apartment in Boston by climbing on
    the roof of a pickup truck, then hauling it onto a balcony by rope,
    then through French doors, down a drop to a spiral staircase in
    the rain.  After that having to remove the door frame was easy.

    
                           MY .02 WORTH
    
    PUTTING IN A BULKHEAD WHERE THERE WAS NONE CAN BE QUITE EXPENSIVE.
     
    MY ALTERNATIVE TO YOUR PROBLEM, IS TO TRY AND SELL YOUR 2 PC
    WASHER/DRYER SET AND THEN GO OUT AND BUY A WHIRLPOOL, ETC 1 PC
    WASHER/DRYER SET (THE WASHER IS ON TOP AND THE DRYER IS ON BOTTOM)
    THEY ARE 1 PIECE UNITS AND SMALLER THAN THE NORMAL SIZE ONES.
    CHECK PRICES AND COMPARE, BUT I THINK THIS IS YOUR EASIEST/CHEAPEST
    WAY TO SOLVE IT.  I AM NOT SURE, BUT I THINK THESE 1 PIECE JOBBIES
    COME IN TWO SIZES.
    
    HOPE IT HELPS
    DON
    

    
    
    CORRECTION TO .23 ....
    
    
    THE DRYER IS ON THE TOP AND THE WASHER IS ON THE BOTTOM ..
    
    SORRY ABOUT THAT
    DON
    

    The 'apartment size' stackable washer/dryer combo may seem attractive
    because they can squeeze into small spaces. However, dollar for
    performance/capacity just isn't there. If you can take apart the
    door frame, you're much better off.
    
    Now, once you get you machine - whatever type you select - is your
    basement equipped with the right plumbing and wiring? This could
    be a very expensive item ...

    Re .25
    
    There are some top of the line stackable units that are large capacity.
    Maytag makes a very good one - however they are quite expensive
    (we bought one for my mother a couple of years ago and it was $1100.00
    at Waltham Stove).
    
    Guess the deciding factor will be which is strongest - the author's
    back or wallet.
    
    ep

Re .25    

>    Now, once you get you machine - whatever type you select - is your
>   basement equipped with the right plumbing and wiring? This could
>   be a very expensive item ...

    At this time it isn't, but I plan on just bringing the plumbing and
   and wiring being used now (it's set up on a wood board on the wall) straight 
   back down through the floor to the cellar where it comes from. Once I've 
   cleared the right spot for it to be set up I'll get a plumber to rearrange
   the piping. It shouldn't take a plumber more than a couple hrs.

    I've got to make sure the dryer can be taken apart first. If not I 
   should sell them together. Tonight I'm gonna take a look at the dryer.      

Ted

    My clothes washer has a problem.  The rinse cycle seems to continue
    for about an hour and a half.  My wife described the problem to
    me so I don't know whether it's just a single rinse cycle or rinse
    and spin, but it takes longer than it should.  Also, I think it's
    just for a permanent press wash, not regular.
    
    I assume it's a timer problem but I've never tried to fix or diagnose
    these things so I don't know.  I'd like to either fix it myself
    or sound intelligent enough to a repairman so the cost of fixing
    it will be reasonable.
    
    It's a Speed Queen.
    
    Thanks in advance.
    

      If you find you do need to replace the timer, you'll find that
    it's not hard to do at all. 
    
    	1. Get the correct timer, either from the manufacturer of from
    		a replacement dealer.
    	2. Unplug the washer, open the back of the top section where
    		the timer is.
    	3. Remove the MANY wires that are plugged into the old timer.
    	4. Take out the old timer, put in the new timer.
    	5. Put the wires back on, put the back on, plug it in and go!
    
    					Kenny

    I just got off the phone with someone at an appliance parts store
    in Quincy who told me that a bad timer will not do this but a bad
    fill valve would.
    
    He suggested that I set the rinse temp to cold, set the dial to
    fill or rinse, and see how it fills.  Then, turn it to warm or hot
    and do the same.  If there's a difference, one of the valves should
    be replaced.  The valve is a $20 part and, he said, easy to replace.
    What's the minimum service charge?

    One thing to check first (yes, I had a similar problem - guess who's
    dirties started piling up until I got around to looking at it...)
    is any type of water filter on the hot/cold water lines. I pulled
    the hoses off of mine and noticed there were plastic inserts in
    the water line stubs sticking out of the back of the washer. These
    were meshed, cone shaped deals that were there to catch larger
    particles.
    
    I had *never* cleaned these since I didn't know they were there.
    Every time we move the washing machine, I just unscrew the valve
    end...
    
    They were pretty clogged. This kept the fill rate down on the machine.
    
    Worth a check anyway. Failing that, I'd second the valve guess.
    You can be relatively certain that the slow-down is because the
    water is being impeded by *something*.
    
    Lotsa luck.

    We had what sounds like the same problem on our Speed Queen -- just
    kept filling and filling and filling. Had to stop the machine and
    start over. Sometimes the problem would recur, sometimes not.
    
    Turned out we had a siphoning problem. The outlet pipe had fallen
    below the top level of the washer tub, allowing a siphon effect
    to occur under the right condiitions. I wired the pipe higher with
    a coat hanger (very attractive, I know), and the problem was gone.
    Cheap fix.

    Well, I finally had some time to check out this problem this past
    weekend.
    
    I set the dial for cold water wash and checked the water pressure
    - it looked acceptable.  I changed the temp to hot and it looked
    the same.  So, I pretty much ruled out the filter or the valve as
    the source of the problem.
    
    Then I examined the drain hose and noticed that it was lower than
    the top of the washer.  There was enough slack for me to be able
    to pull it over the shut-off so I did.  The wash then worked properly.
    
    Thanks to all you who replied.  I wonder how much we would have
    spent to get somebody to diagnose this properly.  In fact, not too
    long ago, we paid a plumber to move the washer and dryer and reconnect
    the plumbing, so he evidently didn't know as much as .4 did.
    
    Why, by the way does this happen (siphoning)?  The water in the
    washer began draining out before it got as high as the uppermost
    bend in the hose, so why this happened is a mystery.  Can anyone
    tell me more about this magical physical law?
    
    Michael

    O.K., is my wife nuts or is this just some bizarre probem?  My wife
    claims that our Kenmore washer is putting holes into our clothes.
    It appears to be cotton T-shirts, jogging pants, etc.  New, old,
    it doesn't matter, just as long as it is cotton.
    
    Bob

Tiny little holes?  Looks like thread is wearing out ?


I'll be willing to bet that SOMETHING you have has battery acid
on it.  Washing it will then spread it around.  It'll probably
go away due to diulution of the acid, but if you could find what
has the acid on it, you'd be wise to keep it out of the wash.


-bill

  I finally solved the Washer and Dryer problem and thought I'd write
in the results. 

      Because the Dryer was too wide (extended in back), I decided to 
      sell the Washer/Dryer and buy a new set (seperates, NOT stackables).
      Their large capacity, same dimensions as the old set except NO 
      EXTENDED BACK on Dryer.

  I started by building the flooring, and surrounding walls for it to 
go in down cellar. Next I decided to tackle the plumbing and wiring 
myself since I was just bringing it to the room below, plus to save some 
money. The wiring was easy since I only had to shut off the power and 
move the electrical connections downstairs. As for the plumbing, I've 
never done it and really didn't want to, but someone suggested I use 
the PVC (?) line and connections by QEST for the HOT and COLD water 
lines. I was a little leary about using PVC instead of the normal copper 
pipes but considering it was only going to the Washer I thought I'd give 
it a try. Well the QEST piping was very easy to assemble and all I needed 
was a pipe cutter to cut the the original copper pipes (pipe cutter 
courteous of original owner). I assembled some 1 1/2 inch PVC (again 
courteous of original owner) for the waste water line and the set up 
was complete. 

  The next thing I had to do was remove the cellar door and casing,
the casing and frame was a little problem but I got it out. The frame 
top came off the sides so it's gonna be fun putting it back together.
Well now that the doorway was clear of door and frame it measured 27
inches and the new washer and dryer measured 25 1/2 inches. Plus going
down the stairwell one wall was brick and the other side was a supporting
structure which measured 27 inches apart, so once you got it through the
door you still had to squeeze it down the stairs.

  Saturday (12/17) was the big day, they came with the new W/D and it 
squeezed down the cellar stairs!!!YEAH!!! and lady who bought my old 
W/D picked the W/D up that same afternoon!!!YEAH!!!(That yeah was from
my daughter in her room where the old W/D was.) ;-)

  I want to thank everyone who offered their ideas and suggestions towards
this situation. I learned a lot doing it and am looking forward to my
next project, after I put the cellar door back together. :-(

Ted
      

    I sorta thought of battery acid, but the batteries in all the cars
    are the maintenance free, sealed shut type.  I didn't take a close
    look at the holes.
    
    Is there anything around/under the agitator that could be snagging
    things?  Are there any moving parts under the agitator that could
    be snagging things during one of the cycles?

Sounds like your wife wants a new washer for Christmas!  8^)

I can't think of anything in the washer that would make holes in your 
cotton, but ignore the rest of the wash.   Sure you don't have moths?

8-)

    mine did that two and it was only 2 months old.  found out that
    the soap when dumped on the botton, clothes on top then the washer
    added water it ate the holes.
    
    now I let the washer start filling.  put in the soap. then the clothes
    now no holes.  by the way the soap is sa8 from amway.

    My Sister-in-law had a similar problem and it was driving her husband
    crazy. All his t-shirts, jeans and anything else made of cotton
    were full of holes.
    
    It turned out she was using too much chlorox bleach.

    re: the last few
    
    Hmmmm. Maybe I'm part of the problem.  I'm usually the one that
    gets the clothes from the washer to the dryer but, recently, I've
    been getting them into the washer and I've been putting in the soap,
    then the clothes, then turning the machine on.  For a while, the
    machine was overflowing the water.  It turns out my wife was putting
    in the soap, starting it filling, and then hunting down the clothes
    to be washed.  Quite often, it would start agitating before she
    put all the clothes in.  I blamed the spillover on her stuffing
    clothes in after the washer had put in what it was the proper amount
    of water for the size load it had.  It sort of sounds like we are
    both at opposite ends of the spectrum and the solution is somewhere
    in between.  I'll make sure that if I put clothes in the washer,
    that there is some water in it before I start putting clothes in.
    
    I hope that's the problem.
    
    Thanks and Merry Christmas to all,
    
    Bob

    
    Regardless of what brand of soap or bleach is used we have discovered
    that if we cut the vendors recommended quantity in half it works
    just as well - if not better. The less soap and bleach you use the
    better the clothes rinse. This gets proven every time the kids try
    to do the wash. 
    
    For bleach we always use the dispenser built into the washer. Before 
    we got the one with the dispenser we would cut the bleach with water 
    before adding it and even then we would always pour into the water 
    NEVER on the clothes.
    
    If it is not soap and bleach residue destroying the clothes (and
    yes they like to eat cotton _read tee-shirts/jeans_ as much as moths)
    then you may have rough edges on the agitator. If you do tennis
    shoes they are brutal. Check the agitator blades and under the bottom
    rim near the drum look for pocket type stuff. combs, pins, jewelry,
    kids toys.

Face it, Bob...   Your wife wants to make sure she has a new washer
before you go out an blow the family savings on that Cherokee!  8^)

Bob

I've got a problem with my washer.  Last night, it didn't drain during the 
rinse cycle and didn't spin.  I tried setting other positions on the dial,
but that made no difference.  I ending up bailing it out and wringing the 
clothes by hand.  When I set the dial to the spin cycle, there was a burning
smell and the sound of the motor running.  My friend opened the back for me
and we checked the belt.  The belt is fairly new and seemed to be set right.

Does anybody have any idea what the problem might be and how expensive it might
be to fix?  Its an old Sears top-loading washer.    

Thanks.

							Terza

    
    I had the same problem.  I'm not sure that my description is accurate
    (my machine is at home, and I'm not), but, if you look into the
    machine from the back (with the access panel removed), you will
    see two solenoids on a metal frame.  I believe that this frame is
    mounted to the transmission/gearcase.  These solenoids control the
    motion of the basket depending on where the machine is in its current
    wash cycle.  With the machine unplugged, feel around behind whatever
    is in the way, following the wires from the solenoids.  You should
    find that one of them has fallen against the belt and has been cut
    through.  It is then a simple matter (with all the extra space you
    have in there where you can't see *!*) of splicing the wire, wrapping
    it up and running the machine.  If this doesn't work, swap the wires
    on the solenoids and see if it spins, but doesn't agitate.  Mine
    didn't agitate, but it spun.  I thought I had burnt out a solenoid,
    but it was just the cut wire.  Runs like a charm; over ten years
    old and no problems.
    						Speedo
    
         

Mine is an old Kenmore and the problem when I had it turned out to be the lid
open switch up on top. The metal flapper on the switch had rusted ALMOST through
and was bending with the pressure from the door. This can be checked simply by
using a nail and depressing the latch and listening for the microswitch to click.
Cheap and easy to replace as you only have to raise the cabinet top and swap it.

    I've also had the same problem. In my case it turned out to be a
    sock stuck in the drain pump. The sock jams the pump so the belt
    slips and burns and the water can not drain because of the sock
    stuffing the line. 
    The fix is to take the intake line off the intake line of the pump
    and then usually you can pull out the offending item. You'll need
    a new hose clamp because they usually use the kind that you you
    can not reuse. It's allso wise to have a bucket handy to catch the
    water left in the hose.
    

    My 8 year old Sears washer would fill up with water, pump the water
    out and fill up, pump out..... I thought the problem was the timer,
    went to Sears got a new one, tried it out, brought it back, While
    i had the machine apart, i noticed the belt was wearing, so while
    changing the belt i noticed a cut wire that goes to the soleniod.
    I spliced the wire and now it works fine.
    
    

I think that I have socks in my washer -- hard to see where else they
could be, unless they've made it into my dry well.  Anyway, I gather 
from .27 that there's often a screen between the basket and the drain
pump.  So I'd like to take the basket out and see what's under it.

But I can't get it off!  Disassembling the top and removing the
agitator is easy enough, but I'm blessed if I can see how to detatch
the nut/whatever that is holding the basket onto the drive shaft.
It's too big for an ordinary wrench.  It has four notches around
the outside, but banging on a screwdriver inserted into the notch
didn't budge the thing.  The outer nut seems to be screwed onto
an inner expansion sleeve, which sits on top of the outer drive shaft.

My machine is a Sears, but a friend's Maytag had the same arrangement
(we never managed to get it apart, either).  Do I need a special tool
to get that thing off?  If so, who might carry it?  (Spags?)  Or
am I barking up the wrong tree, and there aren't likely to be socks
under the basket after all?

	Thanks,
	Larry

    I had a sears machine which rusted through the outer tub  and  I had to
    remove the basket to epoxy the tub.  I unscrewed the nut  by  putting  a
    punch,  not  a  screwdriver, on one of the slots, and hitting it with  a
    hammer.   If you don't have a punch you can use a chisel but  the  sharp
    edge will tend to chew up the nut.
    
    Try  to aim the punch as tangentially as possible.  You may have to hit
    it fairly hard.  Alternate hits in different slots in the nut.  Spray it
    with WD40 first.    Once  it  has  broken loose, water pump pliers are
    adequate for retightening and reloosening (If needed!)
    
    I  think  your screwdriver trick didn't work because the  plastic  handle
    absorbed the shock needed to break the nut free.
    

   	The special tool is called a spanner wrench.  It is
   	shaped like a sickle with a tab at the end of the 
   	curve to fit in the slot.  It usually curves for 270 
   	degrees or so, and is an inch or greater in width.


   				____
   			       /    \
   			      /      \
   			      |     _|
            		      \
   			       \____
   				 II
   			handle =>II direction of force
   				 II  to loosen
   				 II   ===>


   	To tighten, you flip the tool over and push clockwise.
   	You need a different size wrench for each diameter 
   	(unless	they make a "one-size-fits-all" type).

   						Frank

    I had a similar problem with and old Kenmore. The tub would turn
    but would not spin because the water took twice as long to empty
    from the washer, so that by the time the cycle was through the 
    washer had just finished draining its water but the clothes would
    be soaked. The problem turned out to be the Drain Filter had worn
    out and was not allowing the normal water flow out of the machine.
    My filter(upside down cone shape) was located in the back of the 
    washer at the bottom in a corner, not the easiest thing change.
    
    
    
    Jim
                         

    
    I've got a similar problem, but I've been told I'm trying to pump
    water too much distance.
    
    from the base of my washer to the drain is 84 inches.  I've been
    told that 72 inches is a maximum height that I should have the washing
    machine pump to the overhead drain.  My problem is that there is
    still some water in the washing machine after the rinse cycle, not
    a whole bunch, but enough so that I can ring some water out of the
    clothes on the bottom of the load.  This makes the dryer run longer
    to get everything dry.
    
    I think that at the end of the rinse/spin cycle the last bits of
    water that haven't made it up to the drain are coming back into
    the washer.  I thought that installing some type of back-flow check
    valve down closer to the washer would stop this from happening but
    I've been told that I'm making the washer work harder than it should
    and this will decrease its "life span".
    
    The washer is brand new (sears) and I want to do the right thing.
    Does anyone else pump water this high from the washer to the drain?
    
    What other options do I have?
    
    				Ira
    

    I'm in the same situation as .15.  As an interum solution, I put in a
    check value.  So far so good.
    
    I know of three options:
    
    	Move the washer upstairs
    	Install a holding tank and pump
    	Install an on-demand pump
    
    Moving the washer upstairs would add to the noise and take away from
    the living space.
    
    The holding tank and pump would be the "right thing to do" because it
    can then be used for the half bath I intend to install when I finally
    manage to scrape enough bucks together.  But the tank and pump ain't 
    cheap ($800-1200 installed).
    
    An on-demand pump is just a second pump to augement the pump in the
    washer.  It is intended to drain a utility room sink.  Water leaves the
    sink, enters the pump from the top, trips the pressure switch and turns
    on the pump.  Simply replace the sink with a couple feet of 2 1/2" PVC
    pipe and there you go.  The pump runs about $150-200.  (When I first
    tried it, I just stuck the washing machine drain directly into the
    pump.  The pump managed to suck the water out during the fill cycle!?!)
    
    Regardless, if you are pumping up, you definately want to install a
    check value.  I put mine in low based on the theory that there was no
    way to empty the pipe without it back flowing...  I dunno whether that
    is the right place, but it has worked for three years so far.
    
    
    John B.

    
    I don't know how reasonable this is but I have seen this done,
    
    Build a platform about a foot and a half high for the washer and
    dryer, leave enough room to stand in front of the machines and
    have one or two steps to get up, this would leave you about
    68" to pump and lessen the load on the washer....
    
    don't forget to tape or secure the hose to the drain pipe, if
    it comes out the washer has no problem pumping the water onto
    the floor! I have first hand experience there !
    
    ace
    

    Thanx for the suggestion in .17 but the washer and dryer are already
    raised a foot.  
    
    I guess my problem is extreme because I have a sunken living room
    which is on the other side of the house from the washer dryer.
    
    
    kitchen floor
    ---------------------------------------|
        +-----+                            |
      w |     |                            |   livingroom floor
      a |                                  ----------------------------------- 
    ^ s |
    | t |
      e |
         Wash   dryer
         er
       +-------------+
       | platform    |
       |             |
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     basement floor
     
    
    The washer vibrates too much right now because I don't think the
    platform (built by former owner) is sturdy enough.  I'd have to
    rip out what is there and think about pouring some cement (yuck)
    to make something that high (I guess we would be up to about a 2
    1/2 ft high platform).                  
    
    The check valve (some inline connector that allows water to go up
    but not come back down) is certainly going to be the easiest/cheapest
    option, but again I'm concerned that I'm going to be working the
    washing machines pump too hard.
    
    				Ira
    
    

    Hmmm, maybe this would work.
    
    How about letting the washer drain into  a  large  plastic garbage can,
    and having a sump pump sitting in the  garbage  can,  the  hose of said
    sump pump pumping the water up into the waste line..  Might work..
    
    gjd
    

    Our setup has the washer draining into a roughly 2x2x2 plastic utility
    sink, thence into a Zoeller waste pump, up through a check valve
    into the drain line.  This is pretty standard.
    
    pbm
    

Re .19 and .20

Thanx for the input.  I was thinking of doing this but discounted it as a 
solution too quickly because "it sounded funny".  I've already got a 
sump pump that hasn't clicked on in 3 years, as the basement has been 
very dry so I think I'll try this.  

				Ira

    
    
    Heres my washer woe......
    
    when the washer goes into the agitation cycle, water leaks onto
    the floor.
    I looked under the washer and none of the hoses or anything visable
    seems to be leaking.....  between the drum and everything else is
    a metal plate or guard that the drum seems to set on. there is a
    slot in the plate at the front left corner, that is where the water
    is coming from. I don't know if the drum is leaking, splashing over
    or what. The drum can fill and drain without leaking, it only leaks
    when it agitates. Any ideas ....
    
    ace
    

    Does the washer have a lint catcher.  If so, it may be that while
    it is agitating, the pump is circulating the water.  If that's the
    case, then a cracked hose in the recirculating system might be what
    your seeing.  If its up against something, the water could be runnign
    down the side and appearing at a spot removed from the actual leak.
    
    	Ken

         We had your exact problem about a year ago.  Luckily, the
         washer was still under warranty and a man came out and
         replaced a seal (that's all he wrote down).

         As a matter of fact, it's still under warranty until 5/30 and
         has been walking about the room when it spins.  We called
         service again and they found that the feet had never been
         locked down when it was installed.  They said that that
         oversight had caused the leaky seal a year ago as well as the
         extreme vibration now.  They locked the feet and all is well.

    
    
    now that you mention it....  we moved about a year ago and the
    washer has been walking quite abit. It is 11 years old and has
    done gazillions of loads of laundry !! I just chalked it up to
    wear and a slippery linoleum floor (was on cement before).
    It is a Whirlpool with self adjusting back legs, maybe they
    aren't set right !?! I'll check tonight .
    
    thanks for the quick replies and I'll watch for more.
    
    ace
    

    Here's an interesting washer problem.
    
    My Father-in-Laws washer was not draining the water out. So I took
    apart the timer & polished the contacts. Put the whole thing together,
    and it worked. A week later. No drain. Try the rebuild. Still no
    drain. 
    
    Somebody earlier suggested checking the 'full sensor' using a meter.
    How? What am I looking for? Open or closed? 
    
    Any other suggestions?
    Ben

    The idea in .19 works . I did it that way . the whole set-up cost me
    lest than a hundred bucks. The caution is make sure the garbage can or
    bucket has enough reserve capacity to handle the volume of the washer
    that the startup and pump time of the sump pump needs, otherwise.
    
     Bill
    

    
    re: .33
    
    Well I broke down and called our local repair man to look at the
    washer. He suggests we buy a new one !
    It seems the drum is cracked and the suspension is shot. He says
    this is common in the super capacity Whirpools, the drums are to
    big for the machines suspension and people of course fill the
    drum, it would cost $90 for a new drum and $200 for the suspension.
    
    Well, can anyone suggest a good place to buy a new washer at a
    decent price ? what brands are good ?
    I was going to try Highland Superstore in Nashua and Spruce Appl.
    in Ayer/Fitch.
    
    by the way, our repair man Forrest Appliance, Townsend Ma. did not
    charge us for the bad news and he does sell appliances but did not
    try to sell us one. 
    
    ace
    
    

    This might already be discussed in the CONSUMER Notesfile, but I'll
    let you know my experiences in purchasing a new washer & dryer.
    
    My wife and I bought a Whirlpool set at Percy's in Worcester (Gold
    Star Blvd, off Rt 190).  They had the best prices, compared to
    Lechmere's and Highlands and also offered a discount through Mass
    Buying Power, because I was a Digital employee.
    
    According to recent Consumer Reports articles, Maytag and Whirlpool
    are among the best brands to purchase.
    
    - George

    I have several GE applicances.  I don't like the dishwasher, but the
    washer and dryer are fine.  What I like about GE is they have a 24 hour
    800 number that you can call and ask dumb questions ("The dishwashing 
    powder dispenser won't close?"  "You have the control knob on some
    position other than off".)  Their own service center also does repairs
    on Saturdays around here.
    
    

    
    Re: .22  I've been thinking about doing that also, but have had trouble
    getting info on pumps.  The small submersibles may/may not clog with
    laundry output.  Somerville sells a system for $190 which consists of a
    pump and a SEALED plastic bucket, thus ensuring that if the pump dies
    the water will back up into the sink above it. 
    
    I'm planning to run a dehumidifier and the washer into this thing.  Can
    people recommend pumps that have been working for them in this
    situation?  Also, how much water does a standard washing machine use in
    a cycle?  The positive seal on the pump mentioned above might be a
    life-saver if the pump should quit, keeping the floor dry.
    
    On the other discussions about stand-pipe length, I have my washer
    draining up 7+' and going into a standard 2" pipe which is 3' over the
    trap.  No backups, no problems at all with siphoning...

    Well, Theoretically speaking, you could put old  pantyhose, doubled up,
    on the end of the washing machine drain  hose.    The  pantyhose should
    filter out all the lint and a lot of  the  dirt.    This would have the
    added benefit of keeping the lint out of the septic  system.    I would
    guess you have to change the pantyhose once a year or so.
    
    I don't have anything against the pump in a sealed bucket  idea, but if
    the pump dies on you it would seem that:
    
    a) Can't get to it without a hassle.
    
    b) The sink overflows on the floor anyway.
    
    c) Can't examine it to see if it is linting up (presuming they have that
    problem).

    
    Enjoy,
    
    gjd

    Does anyone know if "combined" washer/dryer units are sold in
    the USA?  I'm looking for a unit that attaches only to the cold
    water inlet.  The machine has a heating element for warm
    wash cycles.  The same heating element is used in the dry cycle.
    
    I'm looking for names of manufactures, distributors, and any comments
    as to their repair frequency (satisfaction etc...) .
    
    Many thanks in advance.
    
    Cheers,
    Chris

    I know that some mobile home and apartments have a over-under setup
    where the dryer and washer are combined and the dryer sits on top
    of the washer and fits in a small closet.   I don't know if they
    had a water heater element available.  You might try asking at Sears
    for a over-under model.  Sorry, I don't know of any specific brands.    

    My parents had a washer/dryer, but when they went to replace it in
    the  mid  60's,  washer/dryers  were  no longer available, so they
    bought  seperate  units.  I  don't  know whether it used only cold
    water.  I  doubt it, as it takes a lot of energy to heat that much
    water. It drew a tremendous amount of power, and was wired with #8
    wire.

--David

  Your question hints that you're aware that such appliances exist in
  Europe. I've never seen one in the States. If I were in your position,
  I'd try to locate someone (store or individual) who'd be willing to
  import one for you. It will work fine on the 240V house current in
  the States, requiring only a change of plug.

    Are you sure you WANT one?  I was talking with someone about this
    idea just this weekend, and we concluded that they wouldn't be very
    useful, really, since MOST people do sequential batches of laundry
    and dry one batch while another washes.  Yes, you could do the whole
    single batch in one fell swoop, but it would take a loinger time
    span totally to finish the wash.  Also, the only models (old or
    new) that I've ever heard of that do both are specificlaly for
    apartments, and they are tiny.  Certainly not for family use.  Try
    a good appliance store for information.  In Nashua, I'd visit PE
    Fletcher's on Main Street, for one.
    
    Good luck!
    
    Sherry

  I think you hit the main reason why someone would want one: they're
  tiny. That's why they exist in countries where apartments are often
  much smaller than the 2-acre puppy ranches many of us Americans own.

  The capacity isn't necessarily less than a standard American washer,
  though. The 2.5 kg Vedette washing machine we had in France had a
  capacity only slightly smaller than the humongous extra-large-capacity
  Maytag we have here (and did a better job, I might add). But, if you
  have enough space, the disadvantages already mentioned (consume lots
  of electricity, take a long time) would outweigh the space-saving
  benefit.

My washing machine's belt broke. the machine is Kenmore heavy duty 70.
Well, I replaced it!

I spent two hours (along with a helper) working on the machine, 
following the instructions printed on the plastic wrapper of the new 
belt, without results, until we said :the hell with the instructions, 
let us use our head. And half an hour later the belt was in place.

However, following the instructions, besides spend two hours of not 
accomplishing anything, we also abused the machine. A result of this 
abuse (I believe) is that the machine spit out to us two plastic 
piece. I do not know where these two pieces came from!

Now the belt is on, the machine does everything it supposed to do 
except spinning. At the spin cycle the belt is going but no spinning.

When I call Sears Roebuck, they give me service companies, and they 
are no good to help me fix my problem.

Any idea whom to call for such help?

demetri

    Don't know if it will help, but Sears appliance repair store in
    Manchester, N.H. has a book on repairing washing machines for about
    eight dollars.   It is a general book, not specifically for Kenmore
    machines.
    
    Jim D.

    Demitri, I suspect the problem has to do with being too relaxed
    from Homebrews.  When you followed the instructions, were they 
    right-side-up?

    Chuck

re: 6

Chuck, 
You would have been right, if the machine were in my house.
The machine is in Cape Cod, and it requires an hour and a half of 
travel!. Of course dry....

However, I did something stupid. I tear open the plastic bag, before 
looking. And sure enough the tear was made where the instructions were 
printed!. Even so, I still could read the instructions. But as I have 
said, I would have been better off having not read them....

demetri

    	This reply will only help future purchasers of washing
    	machines. BTW, I'm not an expert, but I used to work
    	in an appliance store and am fairly familiar with
    	Maytag, Whirlpool, and Sears (Whirlpool) washers.
    
    	In my opinion, Maytag is the only way to go. They are
    	generally more expensive than most washers, but they
    	last for a very long time.
    
    	They're also very easy to work on. Both belts for the
    	machine are on the bottom. All you need to do to change
    	a belt is tip the machine, pull off the old belt and
    	put the new belt on. Takes about five minutes. Whirlpool
    	(another very washing machine) requires that you remove
    	the transmission to change the belt. We could do it
    	in about 45 minues. Most DIYers would take about
    	2 hours.
    
    	For what it's worth,
    	Scott (Yes, I own a Maytag)

    FWIW, the  new Whirlpool washers (at least the extra large capacity one
    I got) don't  have a belt at all.  they are direct drive from the motor
    via a gearbox. Of course, we will see how long it lasts...
    
    gjd
    

Hello,

We inherited a GE washer from our home's former owner and it is finally
strting to die.  The cold water valve is malfunctioning and rather then
pay $$ for a serviceman, i want to replace the part.  I don't have a owner's
/service manual.

Does anyone have any info on where i can obtain this part?

Spag's doesn't carry them so now i'm lost :-)

Thanks.
-jim

	For GE (Hotpoint) parts.....

		GE Co. Factory Service (Parts outlet)
		57 Commerce Way
		Woburn, Ma.

		1-800-221-1231

    GE also has a HOT line number (800 number) that you can call to
    get help on repairing their appliances.  I don't have it handy but
    you can call 1-800-555 1212 for information or look in the phone
    book.  They will help you identify the problem or parts/part numbers
    that you need to order.  I found the one time I had to use it very
    refreshing; they are very helpful and courteous and they are available
    on Saturdays too.  (I think I saw a commercial last week for their
    800 number on TV...great selling point)

    Get the Model No. and the Serial No. from the machine and take this
    to any dealer/repair shop that advertises your brand, it also helps
    significantly if you also take the old part.
    
    Most water valves are ganged for hot and cold, i.e. both the hot and
    cold are molded in one piece. You will have to remove about two screws,
    two hoses, and four wires. The hot and cold hoses and valve inputs you
    should make a note of, and particularly the wires you take off - it
    is really not a big job; there is not too much to screw-up.

      I replaced this part on a GE washer about 5 years ago.  Aside from
      about seven zillion sheet metal screws to remove so the back  will
      come  off  the  job  is  very  straight forward.  You won't need a
      service manual unless you're a real klutz.  I asume you're not.
      
      Checking  the  Manchester  NH  phone book I found Bill's Appliance
      Parts at 720 Valley Street. 625-5440. I'm pretty sure that's where
      I got the part.  As I recall the price was in th $10-20 range, but
      not sure on that.
      
      I  suggest  the  same advice as in a previous reply:  Take the old
      part with you when you go for the new  part.   Makes  life  a  lot
      simpler.

Thanks for all the info - i will file it for future reference.  Last
week one of our DYI members was kind enough to supply me with a 
valve which he had in his spare parts box (you never know :-)).  
I installed it yesterday and it worked (thanks Don).  
Gee, i love this conference.

-jim

    I really need some help with this problem....
    
    Our washing machine is leaving what looks like rust stains on our 
    clothes.
    
    I can't figure out where the "rust" is coming from. I checked out the
    water and it doesn't have alot iron or "hardness". 
    
    Can anyone give me some idea of what I can do for this problem. I was
    thinking about tearing the washer apart this weekend to try and find
    it.
    
    The machine isn't old (five years) and there is no visible rust on
    the tub.
    
    I really need to resolve this problem.....
    
    Jim

    Remove the agitator and see if the tub is chipped, or the agitator
    shaft is rusted, or a bearing, or a seal, etc.

    
    Sure it isn't coming from the dryer?

    What town are you in...?
    Many towns in eastern Mass have a lot of iron and manganese in their
    water, and not all towns can afford the expense of water treatment
    which removes these elements.  If you are using bleach, it can cause
    soem of these elements to come out of solution and satin your clothes.
    
    Another thing that you may wish to check is your water heater. 
    When was the last time you flushed out the system?  If your water
    supply is prone to iron, the sediment could be building up to a
    point where it is now more noticable.
    
    Good Luck,
    Chuck

    Could be the inner tub or the backside of the main tub.

    Also, check the filter screens on each water hose. Each hose as
    it connects to the washer should have a screen. This might help
    in determining if the rust is coming from outside of the washer.

    In the meantime, if you're wondering how you can remove the rust stains
    from your clothes, Amway sells a product called "Redu", it's made
    especially to remove rust stains.
    
    Lori B.

    You can call the Tri-City Sales repair store in Lynn MA.  They service
    GE and Whirlpool appliances and carry many parts in stock.  If they
    don't have the part they could probably tell you where to get it.
    
    Michelle

    Thanks for all the replies...
    
    I'm gonna tear the thing apart this weekend. I'm wondering if it's not
    a carry over problem from my old house in N.J. . We had a well and the
    water was very hard. It used to corrode fixtures. So, I'm thinking that
    the back of the tub may be rusted.
    
    I've never really taken apart a washer. It's your basic whirlpool top
    loader.
    
    Anyone have any hints/tips/directions8^)....
    
    Jim

    re: .7
    >                 -< I'll try some Redu...thanks for the info >-
    
    
    If you don't know where to get it, send me some mail, and I'll 
    help you out.
    
    Lori B.

     Someone on my block sells Amway...or at least she did over the summer.
    If she doesn't, I'll letcha know...thanks.
    
    Jim

    Help on taking machine apart:
    	1. Shut of water and unplug electricity.
    	2. Remove top. Top should snap in place at the front. Pivot
    	out of way as best as possible.
    	3. Remove top of agitator. This is a hard part. Down inside
    	of the agitator is a nut that has to be removed to remove the
    	agitator.
    	4. Remove aditator and underneath should be several screw heads.
    	5. Remove these screws and you should be able to remove the
    	tub.
    
    Then you can examime the complete inner tub and the outer tub.
    
    Good luck.

    
      I had the same problem once. When I lifted the top cover I found
    two spring loaded rubber or vinyl coated bars which sat on top of the 
    inner tank. I'm not sure what they were used for. The material wore off
    and the exposed metal rusted. The rust migrated into the washer
    tank. When I replaced these bars, the problem disappeared. Take
    a look at yours to see if you have the same problem.
    
                                                    Bill

    If you are on Town Water, your local water works typically has rust
    remover for your use in the laundry.  They get it in barrels and
    will give you all you want if you bring a container.  Your local
    water lines tend to build up scale of mineral deposits and a jolt
    to the pipes such as flushing hydrants and firefighting etc can
    looosenthis scale and result in rust in the household water.
    
    Chuck

    Thanks everybody...I'll let ya know what I find....
    
    
    Jim

    Do you have a well?  I have iron and manganese in the water.  The water
    softener takes care of the iron problem (as well as the hardness and
    some of the smell).  Iron in the water eventually stains the fixtures
    in the house as well as clothing.  If you have a dishwasher, the
    inside gets rusty colored as well.

    Well, I found the problem...it actually turned out to be simple.
    The hot water hose was rusty where it connected  to the faucet.
    It wasn't only rusty, it was corroded as well.
    
    My old house in NJ had a well with very hard water and I'm sure
    that's where it all started. In any case, I took the washer apart
    and found that the screen where the water comes into the washer
    was rusty. So, I pulled that piece out, I think it's called a
    concentrator, and took it apart and found it had alot of rust collected
    in it. And, that part feeds the water into the washer through this
    plastic reservoir type thing (I'm getting real technical here...)
    which also had lots of rust deposits. 
    
    So, I replaced the hoses, replaced the concentrator, and cleaned
    the plastic reservoir so I think I'm all set. 
    
    I took the agitator apart and there was no rust anywhere, and the
    back of the tub didn't have any either.
    
    Thanks for all the suggestions, I'm pretty sure the problem is
    resolved.
    
    And, after all that, I tried it out and it still worked...amazin!
    
    Jim

    I have heard that if your washing machine is in your house, you
    should turn off the water valves whenever you're not home.
    Otherwise the hoses could burst and your house will get
    flooded.  Is this good advise?  How likely is such a flood?

    I have never seen this happen.
    
    I did have a connection corrode, but the failure was gradual and
    not traumatic.
    
    My valves are shut off for a different reason. Whatever device stops
    the water from filling the tub is slightly outta whack. My tub will
    slowly fill (3-4 days) if I don't shut the water off.
    
    Edd

The last reply touches on why I have always been told that you should shut off
the valves when the washer is not in use.

As explained to me, it isn't the plumbing letting go that you are worried about.
It is the control valves in the washer. They are known to be the weak point in
the system and could let go under pressure. Unlike in the previous reply, they
could completely let go and allow the wash tub to be filled to overflow point.

Where the water goes from there depends on your house. In my case it would be 
all over the furniture and hardwood floors in the foyer and living room! Not
really, we had a copper pan with drain installed under the washer. But I'd
rather not test how well it works. We shut the valves off when the wash is 
done.

						Mark

	Hi,

	I bought my house a year and half ago. Early one morning last fall by
wife woke me up. Said she heard steam leaking from the cellar. (we have steam
heat). I went down stars to check it out and found 3 inches of water on the
floor. It took a few minutes to find the problem, but sure enough one of the
washing machine hoses had burst. We were lucky nothing got ruined.

	I would recommend getting the shutoff valve. Or to save some money
(in the short-term) you could just change these hoses, say, every 3 years 
to simply avoid the problem. I choose the later because short-term money is
tight.

bob

Another reason to shut it off sometimes is the valve may corrode in the open
position so that it won't shut off properly.

This happened to me.  I bought a house and when I went to move in, there was a
garden hose running from the basement bulkhead with water flowing from it.  It
was connected to the (former) washer's cold-water supply.  The valve was closed
yet water was running.

Found a note from the previous owners.  It seems that when they took their
washer, the cold-water valve wouldn't shut off since it was never shut off for
so long.  When they shut off the main at the meter, *it* didn't shut off all
the way because *that* valve hadn't been used for so long, either.

-Mike

    The night after my new neighbors moved in, the hose connection failed
    with the feed line valves open.  I guess it wouldn't have been so
    bad if the washer were in the basement or garage.  It was on the
    second floor instead and ran all night.
    
    Also be aware that an "overflow" type problem can occur with some
    washers when anti-syphon devices are installed at the hose-to-line
    connection, and one line is turned off.  As the washer tries to
    fill in a normal turned-on mode, it will put a back pressure against
    the line that is closed and the anti-syphon thing will let water
    be pumped out.  My explanation sounds goofy, but the problem can
    be prevented by removing or not installing the anti-syphon devices...a
    code violation in most places.

    I guess it seems like my malfunctioning control valve MAY have saved
    me some aggravation.
    
    Edd

    There is a device on the market what you will connect between the hose
    and the tap. It will allow only a limited amount of water (adjustable)
    like 10 gallons to get out in one flow. If more it will shut off.
    Everytime the washer stop with water intake, the device will reset
    itself.
    
    	Henk

    
    
    Yes, shut them off, I had a hose burst on me 2 weeks ago at
    2 in the morning, glad the washer was in the basement and that
    I was awake at the time, it only flowed about 16 gallons of water.
    My wife and I are moving the washer and drier to the first floor
    in the near future.
    

    I would think that working for a computer company would have taught
    you not to put your faith in electromechanical devices :-).  We
    shut off the water supply to the washer whenever it's not in use.
    True, the probability of a hose bursting is very low, but it only
    takes once to cause thou$and$ in damage.
    
    Particularly if you have what is euphemistically termed a "country"
    water system - a well, pump, and storage tank - your system can 
    import dirt and ground rock which will eventually jam the solenoid
    operated valves in your washer (and dishwasher), with resulting
    overflow and damage.
    
    I can't imagine why anyone in his/her right mind would locate a
    washer/drier on an upper floor; the convenience isn't worth the 
    risk, IMHO.
    
    pbm
    

    In a similar subject - I am just getting ready to re-finish the
    basement.  The water heater is down there (washer and dryer upstairs).
    The previous owner had a water heater burst and flood the basement,
    ruining lots.
    
    Before I start construction - is there anything anyone would suggest
    to protect against a future water heater leak or burst?
    
    	-Barry-
    

    The local hardware store sells plastic pans which have about a 2 inch
    lip.  In theory, if you have a leak, the pan saves the day.  The
    problem I see is, how is a 5 gallon pan going to stop a 80 gallon
    water heater from flooding your home?  Ideally, you could have a pan or 
    retaining basin with a drain line connected to it.  The retaining area
    would be able to handle some amount of water while the rest is draining
    away.  

    One easy way I see of doing this is to raise the water heater above the
    floor level, set in a plastic pan or concrete basin with 4 inch walls,
    and run a 4 inch PVC pipe outdoors or to a dry well.  Put screen over
    the end of the pipe outside to keep critters out.  Gravity feed will
    drain basin and the basin will provide some initial protection if the
    pipe cannot handle the water flow. 

    A washer could be set in the same manner.

    They make a shutoff valve asmy that is a lever that shuts off both the
    hot and cold lines at one shot. Easy and convenient to use (I specified
    it when my house was built).
    
    Eric
    

    re .11  Hello Bruce
    
    That is ok, IF the basement is above grade, or if you have a sump
    pump.  If neither, then do you trust the ac condensate pump to handle
    the overflow?  I think not.
    
    
    re .12  Hello Erik
    
    My washer outlets are on one of those and I also have shutoff valves
    on the lines, down below in the basement.  The 'gadget' has dual
    faucets for the hoses to attach to and a single shutoff lever.

    	-Barry-

    re .9
    
    I'm one of those people who must not be "in their right mind" because I
    located our washer and dryer in a second floor bathroom.  It simply
    sits in a copper pan that has a drain line to the main drain.  We also
    have a one lever shutoff valve.  I do not lose sleep over this setup.
    Since we have a one year old and we wash our own diapers, and a five
    year old that goes through clothes like crazy, we think this setup 
    makes a lot of sense.  But then again, were not in our right mind,
    according to an alleged expert in home improvement and apparently,
    psychology.
    
    Bob 

Well, I think I am in my right mind since I am left-handed. However, I also have
located the washer, in both of my houses, on the second floor where the bedrooms
are. We think it is the best place for it.

I would agree that if no safeguards are taken, it would not be a wise move. 
However, like .14, we have a copper pan with a drain underneath the washer.
The wall behind the washer is covered with formica with the seam between the
pan and the wall caulked. The pipe/drain setup has a small pan around the drain
pipe which is also well caulked. If the pipe connections ever leak, the water
will be sent down the washer drain. If that were to clog, the overflow
would run down the formica wall and into the copper pan.

I sleep fine at night with this setup.

    My fill valve froze, thawed, and cracked a couple nights ago.  Not
    too much water on the floor since we do shut off the taps when not
    in use.  I had the same thing happen last winter (shame on me for
    not fixing the problem before this winter).  I pick up a new valve
    assembly this afternoon (another $14.95).

    It was down to 3 below last night and is supposed to be colder yet
    tonight, so I won't install it until the weekend.  However, I
    would be interested in hearing people's opinions on the best way
    to keep the hoses and fill valve assembly warm enough to prevent
    freezing until this spring when I tear down the flimsy laundry
    addition tacked onto the back of the house and replace it with
    something that's insulated (and bigger).

    The alternatives I'm considering are:

    1.  Heat tape wrapped around the fill hoses, drain hose, and fill
        valve assembly.

    2.  Heating pad placed where the fill hoses screw onto the fill
        valve assembly.

    3.  A light bulb judiciously placed.

    4.  Wrapping insulation around the hoses and the back of the
        washing machine.

    1, 2, 3, 4, or other?

    Sid

    re> a few
    
    If the left side of the brain controls the right side of the body,
    And the right side of the brain controls the left side of the body,
    Then , only left handed people are in there right minds.
    
    					Author unknown.

    To all you 'upstairs' people,
    
    	I'm trying to convince my wife we should move the washer/dryer
    upstairs when we do a bathroom next summer. She complains about the
    noise involved. 
    
    	So, Do you think that you are bothered more by the noise with
    the w/d upstairs? (please feel free to contact the homebody for
    an opinion, if there is one...)
    
    thanks,
    Ben
    

    If you are concerned about noise, consider insulating the walls when
    you remodel.  Standard 3 1/2 inch Fiberglas WITHOUT vapor barrier will
    reduce the noise considerably.  For more involved noise reduction,
    refer to 1111.94 for a list of all the notes.

    Think about the time of day your household does laundry and then about
    what part of the house most of the people are occupying at that time.
    If you are doing laundry during the day and most people are in the
    kitchen/den/playroom/out of the house, then it does not matter about
    the noise on the second floor.  If you do laundry at night when people
    are in the bedrooms next to the laundry, then it is more of a concern.

    I live in a single story without a basement so I don't have a choice as
    to where the laundry room is and therefore can't readily offer an
    opinion.

    Ours is right above the kitchen/family room opening.  You can hear it,
    but it's not bothersome.  The dryer is very quiet; it's the washer that
    makes the most noise.  
    
    The dishwasher in the kitchen is a lot noiser (and more irritating).
    
    Bob
    

RE: upstairs/downstairs

Having the washer/dryer upstairs means that you don't have to carry the laundry
down and back up.  *But*, it does mean that you have to climb up and down
between each and every load.  Unless you have something to do on the 2nd floor
for the entire duration of the wash.  

>    Standard 3 1/2 inch Fiberglas WITHOUT vapor barrier ...

      Why  the emphasis on "WITHOUT"?  A vapor barrier on one side of an
      interior wall shouldn't make a difference so far  as  moisture  is
      concerned.   (Yes, you should NOT put vapor barriers of BOTH sides
      of ANY wall!)  Does it make any difference in sound attenuation?

      I  ask  as  one  who  has  several interior walls with kraft faced
      fiberglass installed for sound control.

    	re. .22    Acoustically, there would be no difference w/ or w/o the
    kraft facing. A facing can effect absorption when in free air, but when
    it lays upon another surface, there is no effect. The transmission loss
    of kraft paper is negligible. You do want absorption in a wall cavity so
    that the two (or more) wall materials (typically sheets of gyp. board
    on each side of a stud) act independently acoustically, rather than as
    a lumped mass. If there is no absorption between the sheets, air
    vibrations from one sheet tend to drive the other sheet, giving you a
    sort of coupling effect. The absorption breaks this coupling.
    	Note: the effect of the facing in free air would probably be
    beneficial - the effect is to increase low frequency absorption at the
    cost of some high frequency absorption. The gyp. board provides enough
    TL at mid and high frequencies, but you can always use some improvement
    at low frequencies (the story of a Noise Control engineers life!).
      - Chris

    The moisture generated by the washer/dryer would be trapped in the room
    and could lead to possible mold/mildew problems.  Without the vapor
    barrier, the moisture is allowed to pass to other rooms and disperse
    more evenly throughout the house.  A 1% increase in humidity household
    wise is better than a 5%-10% rise in one room (Numbers purely
    hypothetical).

    The other side of the argument could be made to install a vapor
    barrier and an exhaust fan to keep the moisture out of the insulation
    and surrounding rooms and eliminate the problem of moisture all
    together.

    Will the insulation do very much good since both walls are on the same
    studs?  Have read about 'spring clips' and double walls if you want
    real noise control!
    
    RE .20-
    
    	Just replaced our dishwasher with a new GE and it's quiet even
    in the kitchen!
    
    	-Barry- 

	Ours is at the top of the stairway which is located in the family
room. Once in awhile, I will notice the washer noise while watching TV but
I just turn up the volume a little. It doesn't bother me. I would agree
I find the noise from the dishwasher much more annoying.

	As stated in a previous reply, we do most of the washing during the 
day/early evening so noise next to the bedrooms hasn't been a bother either.
The laundry room is right next to my 2 year old daughter's room and she 
doesn't seem to notice. Probably less bothersome than the TV noise from
below.

						Mark

    re. .25   The TL of the wall will increase quite a bit if the gyp.
    board sheets are not connected (using staggered 2X4s on a 6" wide
    plate) or resilient hangers are used. But at about this level of noise
    isolation, flanking paths become dominent - vibrational energy passing
    thru the feet of the unit into the floor and the floor radiating the
    sound energy. If you really want to noise isolate an appliance, you
    have to look at all the energy paths. - Chris

    Let me try to get back on track (soundproofing is really a topic for
    another note).
    
    I've never heard of anyone putting their dishwasher in the basement to
    limit damage in case a valve fails and it floods.  Is there an
    important difference between dishwashers and washing machines that
    makes the latter more likely to flood?
    
       Gary

    To get back to the *first* rathole... ;-)
    
    Locating one's laundry on the first floor makes some sense to me, as
    when one is up and about, one is likely to be on the first floor for
    much of that time.
    
    Locating one's laundry on the second floor makes some sense to me, as
    most people tend to do most of their clothes-changing in either their
    bedroom or bath (here I'm assuming that the second floor is where the
    bedrooms are;  bonus points for the convenience of a bath there as
    well).
    
    Locating one's laundry in the basement sounds convenient mainly w.r.t
    plumbing, particularly if one is adding the plumbing to an existing
    structure.  One could also put it there intending that the exercise of
    stair-climbing would keep one moderately fit.
    
    Dick

>    I've never heard of anyone putting their dishwasher in the basement to
>    limit damage in case a valve fails and it floods.  Is there an
>    important difference between dishwashers and washing machines that
>    makes the latter more likely to flood?

Dishwashers are normally plumbed with solid pipe, either sweat or 
compression fittings, as compared to the rubber hoses of washing machines,
which can get brittle and crack.  (Or your rabbit will gnaw on them
and make them leak, as ours did - fortunately, my wife is a "turn off 
the faucets when you don't need them" advocate.)

And dishes weigh more per unit volume than clothes, so you'd notice
the trips up and down stairs more.....

- tom]

    Any news on .9
    I have a similar problem. I have an old dryer that refuse to turn
    its drum all the time. When the start button is pushed it sometimes
    just cause a buzz sound. I can "kick start" it by releasing the
    spring tension that is holding the belt to the motor. However,
    sometimes the motor whon't even turn. Any idea of what's happening?
    
    How do I trouble shoot the motor. There are 5 leads going into the
    motor. It numbers 3 2 1 5 4?
    
    Thanks.
    

re: << Note 3639.30 by REGENT::POWERS >>>

>Dishwashers are normally plumbed with solid pipe, either sweat or 
>compression fittings, as compared to the rubber hoses of washing machines,

      Not in my world. Although I know it can be done, I've never seen a
      dishwasher drained by other than a rubber hose.  I've  seen  water
      supplied by rubber/plastic hose and by flexibile copper, which is,
      in my opinion, at least as break prone as rubber hose.

          ...but this would be another rathole, I guess....

It seems to me that the component people judge most likely to fail is the
valve.  On a washer, the valve is connected to a full-size water intake
and is designed to allow large quantities of water through.  In a dishwasher,
the valve is connected to small tubing and only opens part way.  You could
still get a flood, but nowhere near as fast as with a washer.

			Steve

    Ever have the float that shuts the water off in your dish washer stick
    because it was loaded up with gunk. Luckly we were home but you would
    be suprised how much water can be pumped through a 3/8 inch line in a
    short time. 
    
    (RAT HOLE ALERT)
    
    Yes hoses break my parents had 8" of water once in their "completly"
    finished basement due to a hose bursting.
     
    Even with this experince we have a laundry room on the first floor. The
    better half insisted. It also allows me to check to be sure the water
    is off and a failure will be noticed much sooner. I like the drain idea
    and with a first or second floor installation that is a fairly easy
    option to add because you can connect to the main drain. Basement
    installations don't always have that option. In my case I would need
    to either mount the washer 3' off the floor or add a sump pump or punch
    a hole in the floor and hope I don't strike water.
    
    Don

    Please do not generalize about the ease of plumbing in the basement!
    
    	-Barry_who's_waste_line_is_24"_above_floor_and
    
    		who's_wife_wants_a_darkroom_with_sink
    
    			and_if_you're_doing_it_a_full_bath
    

Sounds like the starting circuit of the motor is bad.  Depending on the motor,
it could be a special starting winding, a starter capacitor, or a centrifugal
switch in the motor, or perhaps elsewhere in the starting circuit.

Household single-phase motors won't necessarily start turning by themselves
without these circuits, as you're finding out.  If a motor just sits there and
hums, it can usually be made to start by giving the motor a twist (be sure to
turn it in the right direction and WATCH YOUR FINGERS if you attempt this!)

-Mike

    re: .10
    Had the exact same problem for a couple of weeks with my dryer which
    is a Whirlpool unit approx 15 yrs. old. Finally, last week it just
    wouldn't start turning. I tested the start switch, the centrifugal
    switch and the motor according to my fix-it-yourself book and also
    contacted the Whirlpool Cool-line (800-253-1301) and verified that
    I was doing it correctly. Everything tested okay, however, I was 
    convinced the motor was the problem, so I bought a new one and it
    solved the problem. Cost was $70.00 and about 1/2 hrs. work to put
    in.
    
    Phil 

    Thanks for the replies. I think I will go get a new motor.
    
    By the way. Is there any reason that the dryer stay warm with all
    the switches off. Someone mention that the defective motor can cause
    that. Any explainations.
    
    Thanks,
    Kin

Back on the subject of washing machine floods...  Yes, turn off the water 
between uses.  My parents new carpeting off the laundry room had not
been down two days before the washing machine flooded the whole room
with a couple inches of water.

Also,  you know that drain hose that comes out of the back of the washer
that you stick in the drain pipe?  Tape that sucker to the pipe with
electricans tape.  One day while the washer was draining the pressure
forced the hose right out of that pipe and all of the water drained out onto
the floor.  Yes the washer was on the main floor , yes the carpet got soaked
and no there was no drain!  
Like the saying goes, "Older, budweiser..."
John...

    Regarding taping the hose to the drain pipe...there's a wire gadget
    that came with my washer (Maytag) that holds the hose to the pipe.  You
    may be able to buy these at a hardware or appliance store.   Seems to
    me that tape would come loose over time.  Especially if you have water
    running through the pipes....could be some sweating.

Make sure you don't tape the drain hose so tightly that air can't get in, or
else you'll have problems draining and may strain the pump motor.

			Steve

My Maytag washer has a problem.

After the first wash cycle, it will drain, then spin dry, getting ready for the
rinse cycle.  But when the valve opens to allow the rinse water into the 
machine, the drain valve does not shut, resulting in the rinse water being 
drained out immediately, and the entire cycle being hung up.  I have to go
down and advance the cycle manually to get the cycle to continue.  It then
proceeds to the end of the cycle.

Would this also be a timer problem?

Steve

    Are you sure that the rinse water is entering the washer to begin with?
    I had a similar problem with at brand new washer and it turned out that
    the cold faucet was off.  The washer will take only cold water for the
    rinse cycle and was just sitting waiting for the cold water to fill the
    tub.  
    
    It was embarassing because I called out the installer and he pointed
    out the problem.

Are you sure the drain valve is open?

I had a problem with a Kenmore washer where after the drain cycle, it would
turn on the water for the fill, but never fill up.  It turned out that my
drain system (installed by previous homeowner) had no vent, and the drain
cycle started a siphon.  The fill cycle just fed the siphon forever (there
was no drain *valve*, the drain cycle turned on the pump.  The siphon could
pull water through even when the pump was off).  Stopping the fill cycle for
a while would break the siphon and allow the fill cycle to work.

The solution was to install a vacuum break vent where the drain hose entered
the pipe.

    
    
    My washing machine has been giving me problems for the past few weeks.
    It has been getting stuck on cycles. It appears the knob/switch
    that is rotated to indicate which cycle to start from remains in
    the position it was set in, rather than continuing thru the various
    cycles (wash-spin, rinse-spin, rinse again-spin). It started by
    not completing the final spin. Then started acting up in earlier
    cycles. Now it appears it just remains in the set position.
    
    I pulled the panel containing this switch and looked it over. 
    Nothing appears to be out of place. I lightly sanded all the point 
    contacts asuming a possible carbon buildup. No fix. I did notice a 
    clock type electric motor in this timmer assembly and maybe this is 
    on the blink or dead. I will check for AC over the weekend with
    my VOM...but I believe this will just confirm the need for a new
    rotory switch.
    
    Has anyone had to replace one before? I'm just concerned over price
    and would like to know what I should expect to pay for such item?
    
    Anyone think of other ways to prove this part  defective?
    
    Dave' Not_in_the_financial_position_to_replace_la_machine.
    

    Let me also add that all wires are attatched using connectors and
    one ground connection so I think I'll have no technical problem
    with replacement.
    

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Paul [Moderator]

    
    This washer is a Kenmore Heavy Duty with some age on it...left behind
    by prior residence.
    
    My washing machine has been giving me problems for the past few weeks.
    It has been getting stuck on cycles. It appears the knob/switch
    that is rotated to indicate which cycle to start from remains in
    the position it was set in, rather than continuing thru the various
    cycles (wash-spin, rinse-spin, rinse again-spin). The problem started by
    not completing the final spin. Then started acting up in earlier
    cycles. Now it appears it just remains in the set position.
    
    I pulled the panel containing this switch and looked it over. 
    Nothing appears to be out of place. I cleaned all the point 
    contacts asuming a possible carbon buildup. No fix. I did notice a 
    clock type electric motor in this timmer assembly and maybe this is 
    on the blink or dead. I will check for AC over the weekend with
    my VOM...but I believe this will just confirm the need for a new
    rotory switch. All wires are in connectors with one cetral ground
    point. so replacement's a piece of cake.
    
    Has anyone had to replace one before? I'm just concerned over price
    and would like to know what I should expect to pay for such item?
    
    Anyone think of other ways to prove this part  defective?
    
    Dave' Who_is_not_in_the_financial_position_to_replace_la_machine.
                  

Re: .41
	It sounds like the classic rotory timmer moter is the fault. I've
replaced just that. It was cheaper $70 verses $40 for just the motor.


	I can't say that yours is two pieces, but you should check to
see if it is and the price. I know it's crazy, but sometimes the whole
assembly is cheaper.


	And it is is easy to d-i-y.
    
				Bill

       I have a Frigidaire, about 5 years old. Here's the problem: 
     Sometimes the agitator won't start without a little 'help', just a
    little twist and it's off and running. This shows up in all the cycles.
    Then it will do several loads with no problem at all.
       Another problem also shows up in the spin cycle, the tub won't spin
    without the same little 'nudge'. Is this a trans. problem maybe? The
    belt seems okay.
                                       Denny

RE: .12

	Sounds like the motor starting capacitor is bad. Can you determine
if the motor is turning but the agitator is not? A little 'help' to me
means that you are doing just a little twist of the motor and it would
start. This is what the the starting cap does.

				Bill

       Thanks Bill. I'll check it out. Where would I usually find it? How
    big is it so I know what to look for? Guess it's time to get some use
    out of my Time-Life books.
                                                Denny

       BTW, is it the same cap for both the agitator and the tub?
                                     Denny

Denny,
	The cap is usualy located near the motor. Its size/shape is similar
to a round pill bottle. This cap will make the motor start turning and in many
cases will be the device to decide which direction the motor would be
turning. Most washers have only one motor located near the bottem of the
washer. follow the wires back if the cap is not mounted onto the motor.

	The time-life books should help in locating it too.

			Let us know how this turns out.

					Bill

    See note 962.28.
    
    I had similar problems,  check the wires going to the solenoids
    for breaks.  Peel back the black tape and check under that, as
    that is where my wires were broken.
    
    mike
    

Denny,
	I just saw another note that may help. 962.43  It refers to a
possible broken wire. This also could very likely be your problem. On the
back of the washer is usually a schematic diagram od the wiring. You should
also check the contacts and wires for possible bad contacts / broken wires.

	The trouble could be that the cap is not allways getting connected
into the circuit.

			Bill

    	It could also possibly be the starter winding of the motor
    intermittently making/breaking.  The cap will be much cheaper as a
    first go fix.  (INTERMITTENT problems are FUN TO FIX!!!)  Since the
    motor starts with just a little help, I would tend to rule out the
    contacts in the timer.  So, check the wiring, cap, and motor for the
    problem.

    
    I still think it's the timer. We can get la machine to work in all
    timer positions. I would think of a wire were broken, I would loose
    some other function, like no spin, no fill, no agitate...something!
    Maybe not though.
    
    re:- How much was the sears timer for your machine? From the sears
    service center?
    

    
    	Our washing machine (Sears Kenmore heavy-duty, 2 years old) has
    started to give off a musty smell over the last week.  (It still works
    fine when in operation.)  My wife has tried cleaning it what she could
    easily reach -- ie. no disassembly has occured yet --, but the smell
    is still there.  She claims that the sock-monster must have taken a
    sock and tucked it away in some dark corner of the washing machine.
    (And no, we don't know for sure that we've lost a sock last week.  That
    would make life too easy.)
    
    	Has anyone's washing machine started smelling musty like this?  If
    so, what was it?  Thanks!
    
    								-craig

    The lid should probably lift up and back from the front. (lid meaning
    the top of washer, that the lid is connected to...) Maybe lint has
    built up on top of the area around the top of the drum.
    Washers dont eat socks, people misplace them... 
    Jean

>< Note 962.46 by SMURF::PINARD >
>                         -< Check under the hood. ;^) >-

    Washing machines certainly *do* eat socks. I've pulled more than one
sock out of a washer pump. This problem occurs when the machine is overloaded.
The sock gets pulled between the inner and outer tub (near the top of the machine).

Ross

                       <<< Note 962.45 by BCSE::YANKES >>>
                          -< Smelly washing machine? >-

    
    	Our washing machine (Sears Kenmore heavy-duty, 2 years old) has
    started to give off a musty smell over the last week.  (It still works
    fine when in operation.)  My wife has tried cleaning it what she could
    easily reach -- ie. no disassembly has occured yet --, but the smell
    is still there.  She claims that the sock-monster must have taken a
    sock and tucked it away in some dark corner of the washing machine.
    (And no, we don't know for sure that we've lost a sock last week.  That
    would make life too easy.)
    
    	Has anyone's washing machine started smelling musty like this?  If
    so, what was it?  Thanks!
    
    								-craig


> This worked for me.  Run the washer thru a complete cycle with no laundry,
> and 1 gallon of distilled vinegar.  The vinegar will clean out all the
> Scum and deposits in the system.
> 
> Sounds bizzare, but it worked for me.
>
>	/J

    r .47
    
    I thought about that occurance after I entered that comment..
    I thought there might be a chance that they get swept over the top,
    but don't think they are likely to make it through the pump, but 
    maybe there is a chance of that too... I did find a dime in the 
    pump once...
    
    :^)

    Maybe mildew in the lint trap or somewhere. When running, it gets warm
    and eliminates the odor. After cooling, the odor returns.

    
    Re: .50
    
    	Have you been sniffing around our washing machine?  ;-)  You
    described the symptoms perfectly!  It smells fine after being used, but
    later on the smell comes back.  I'll look around for the mildew.
    
    	Thanks for all the replies!
    
    							-craig

    
    
    Let us know what you find! Mine has been doing the same off and
    on for a couple of years and I can never find the source.
    
    

    
    	Well, what I've found out thus far is that taking the top off of a
    Sears Kenmore washer isn't exactly easy.  I started taking it apart on
    Saturday, and put it back together once it got to the point where I
    could see part of the tub.  Along the upper two-three inches I could
    see "stuff" that is probably mold or mildew.  The next step (didn't have
    enough time over the weekend...) is to manually fill the tub up as high
    as I dare to and put bleach or vineger in it.  My wife has already put
    bleach and vinegar (not together, but separate trial runs) in it and
    ran it through a cycle, but it didn't cure the problem.  From where I
    saw the mold/mildew, it looks high enough in the tub that a normal
    cycle wouldn't get it wet, but that it might get splashed on every now
    and then.
    
    	I'll update as things happen.
    
    								-c

Re: .53

I don't know if this applies to a lot of the Sears models, but I spent
an entire afternoon trying to remove the guts of my 2.5 year old Sears
washer, only to watch the service guy do it in about 30 seconds.  You
remove the screws at the bottom front of the control panel and swing it
up.  Unhook any electrical connectors and dispenser hoses.  Then pry up
the two metal clamps that hold the shell to the back.  Lastly, tilt the
shell back and lift it off.  All the guts are attached to the back panel
and the frame.

(My problem was a casting defect in the transmission that resulted in
a puddle of oil on my basement floor - I didn't even notice until I moved.
They replaced the part free of charge under the 5-year transmission
warranty.)

				Steve

    
    	Steve,
    
    	Yup, that's how its done.  Too bad it took me over an hour to
    figure it out...  Well, I never did fully get the back off.  Before
    going that far, I could see into the tub and spotted the mold/mildew.
    Sounded to me like a fine excuse to stop pulling it apart further.
    
    	Actually, the hardest part for me was putting it back together. 
    Once the back is unscrewed, the whole washer body seems to lose a lot
    of its structural integrity and thus everything starts to move on its
    own.  I was "close" to getting it together several times before finally
    getting every hole to line up properly at the same time.
    
    							-craig

Re: .55

I know - and I found myself wondering how the factory ever managed to get
all the pieces to fit in.  I felt like such a doofus when I saw how it was
SUPPOSED to be done.

				Steve

    My friend (a professional plumber) has an apt. over his shop with
    washer installed in copper 2" deep pan with drain. The water couldn't
    drain fast enuf and ran under the door and down the stairs into his
    office. He read his tenants/parents the riot act about running any
    appliance when they wern't home.
                   I would love to have a laundry room off my kitchen,
    (which I never get out of). Ours is down celler. I always forget the 
    last load on Sun. nite and find it mouldering away next Sat. morn.
    Hubby brought out the bazookas for this battle. EEEK!
                   I have convinced myself that it's a coin toss. If it
    stays down celler I am not going to get "I told you so's" if it floods.
    The laundry stays out of sight down celler, and out of mind. If Hubby
    can't find his favorite boxer shorts 'cause I forgot, he'll do more
    laundry.
                   We would both like a laundry chute. Dirty laundry
    accumulates everywhere. I would have access to it on the first and
    second floor.I would design it like a mailbox (kids and cats wouldn't
    fit. What about fire stops?
                   It does help that we have a resonabley clean and well
    lit celler.

    Your talk of having a laundry chute (wish I had one!) reminded me of a
    funny old story!
    
    The house I grew up in had a BIG laundry cute.  The top of it was a
    tilt-out panel under the bathroom cabinet (which was a big deep one,
    not a medicine cabinet), and the bottom of it came out over a wheeled
    cart in the basement bathroom (which we had added; before there was a
    downstairs bathroom, laundry landed in a basket), next to the laundry
    room.
    
    One day when we were kids, my mischievous kid brother managed to lock
    the bathroom door from the outside such that it could not be opened
    with the key.  Now, the house was on a steep hill, so the bathroom,
    which was on the back side of the house, was way above ground level,
    like about 20' - and anyhow, the window was locked shut.  After trying
    several methods to get the bathroom open without breaking down the door
    (the hinges, and the screws for the lockset, were on the inside), my
    folks got the bright idea of having me CLIMB UP THE LAUNDRY CHUTE from
    the basement end, crawl out over the tiltout, and open the door from
    the inside.  I was about 7 or 8 at the time.  It was quite a show! 
    There wasn't a lot to step on or hold onto once I got above the top of
    the kitchen step ladder (not enough room inside the bottom of the chute
    for a real step ladder), but I eventually managed it!  Boy, did my
    brother catch it....
    
    Anyhow, laundry chutes are great!  I wish I had room to install one in
    my current place.  I like having the machines downstairs, so that the
    occasional mess, and the noise, are not right in the middle of the
    living areas.  Then again, I never forget a load of laundry, since we
    don't own enough clothing between us - it is immediately obvious if I
    forget on Thursday night to retrieve the white clothes from the dryer,
    because then on Friday morning neither of us have any clean underwear!
    
    
    /Charlotte

    Wouldn't you know it, but this happened to my sister last week.
    Hose burst in the middle of the night. They got a call from a
    neighbor the next morning saying "you're foundation looks wet...".
    About an inch of water all thru the first floor.
    Anyway, my brother-in-law was curious as to how a 2 year old
    washer (and hose) would burst. He had a plumber come in to test
    the pressure (city water). It was 85 PSI (at 5:00PM, probably more
    at 3:00AM!). Is that higher than code? If so, who is responsible for
    bringing it down, the builder, or the water dept? House is two years
    old, by the way.
    
    John

    The city supplies the water at some variable pressure.  If
    you want to regulate it, you'll need to add a pressure
    regulator after your water meter.  Logic would suggest the
    plumber would put one in as a matter of course, but then,
    that's just logic.
    
    If by "responsible" you mean "who can I blame", you'll
    probably find out "no one".  If you're wondering who will
    have to do something to correct the problem, you will.

re                       <<< Note 3639.41 by GOBACK::FOX >>>
>                   -< too much pressure, who's responsible? >-

The city supplies water pressure to  my  house  at  an average of 110lbs.
This only happend a couple of years  ago.  We went from not being able to
wash the car (20lbs, the city-required minimum) to  being  able  to shoot
down birds on the power lines.  The water  heater  CAN add 30lbs pressure
to what comes in.  The safety valve on the heater is set for 150lbs;  not
enough of a margin.  Also, soon after the pressure went  up,  I had to go
around  and  tighten all the outside taps and the water meter connection,
they all started to leak.

I installed a pressure regulator and set it for 85 lbs.  Everything works
fine, now.

Dave

    After the plumber checked the pressure, it was obvious a
    pressure reducing valve was necessary. That's not what I
    was asking. In a municipal water situation, who is responsible
    for ensuring water pressure is up to code?
    When my development was built, we had the same problem.
    Water pressure was sky high. However, the plumbers that
    installed the reducers were not the same ones that plumbed
    the entire subdivision. Whether that was so because they
    were contracted by the city or because the original plumber
    was on another job is the point.
    
    John

    re: .44 - Who is to blame....
    
    We had a situation in Merrimack (NH) a couple years ago where they
    put a water tower on line one sunny day.  Noone in the surrounding
    area had pressure regulators or anything.  Within minutes, the
    H2O pressure rose from about 50psi to about 150psi.  Needless to
    say, our neighborhood started looking like geyser-city.  In some
    houses, the hoses from washers went.  In others, the toilet let
    go.  In ours, fortunately, the pressure relief valve on the gas
    water heater let the pressure off.  The next day, a surge of 
    plumbers came to our neighborhood putting pressure reducing valves
    on EVERYONE's water line.
    
    Who was to blame?  Well, it sure wasn't the MK Village District (water
    dept)!!!  They claim that in their charter, it says something like
    they're not responsible for water pressure problems or line problems
    or other such things inside the house.  It was up to us to have our
    house properly "protected" from things like water pressure increases.
    They "claimed" they sent out letters to folks in affected areas
    to warn them of this new water tower being put on-line months before.
    The next day, we found letters in our front doors.  Kind of like
    closing the doors after the cow's left already....
    
    But, the bottom line is that we were on our own, and even though they
    shared in our frustration, it was basically tough luck.  I don't
    know about local codes about having to have pressure reducing valves,
    although most recent houses I've seen in the area had them already,
    so maybe it's new in the past 8 years.....
    
    andy
    

    RE: 43 - 85 PSI seems way too high - I keep mine at 40-60.
    
    Few people in Maynard have pressure regulators either - one day a
    pressure spike knocked on my door and blew the top off of my electric
    tankless water heater - after that I installed a pressure regulator.
    
    

    I agree the 85 PSI seems high.  The over-the-counter DIY plumbing books
    that I have read indicate that 55-65 is the recommended range for
    residential supply plumbing.  I replaced all my supply plumbing in my
    house about 18 months ago and installed a pressure regulator.  I
    adjusted mine to run 65 psi.  My regulator is rated at 35-75 psi.  
    

re .42
>    If by "responsible" you mean "who can I blame", you'll
>    probably find out "no one".  If you're wondering who will
>    have to do something to correct the problem, you will.
    
    Perhaps, but say you bought a new house and shortly thereafter
    the roof collapsed. Looking over the remains, you found the framer
    used 2x4's 24" OC for rafters. Would the above be true? I think
    not. I'm asking if there's is a specific code which states that
    water pressure must be no greater than a certain PSI. If so,
    who is responsible. If not, then I agree, the owner is S.O.O.L.
    
    John
    

RE: .48

>    I'm asking if there's is a specific code which states that
>    water pressure must be no greater than a certain PSI. If so,
>    who is responsible. If not, then I agree, the owner is S.O.O.L.

	I think that there is no specific code for min-max water
pressure. For who to blame.....

	- House inspector for not informing you it needed a pressure
	  regulator.

	- City water dept if they did something to raise the pressure (like
	  water tank) and didn't notify you.

	- Previous owner. If she/he removed the regulator.

	- Yourself if you didn't get an inspector for the house.

	- The Builder, if this a new house and she/he shortcutted the 
	  the plumbing. Hard to prove...

	- The regulator company if you just installed a new one and it
	  failed..
    


	I hope this answers your question....

				Bill

    
    
    
    	Need help.......It seems that everytime we do a load of wash the
    	washing machine spots some of the clothes with grease.....I haven't
    	lubricated the machine at all and was wondering if anyone has an
    	idea where this grease may be coming from and how to fix the
    problem.
    
    
    					Thanks
    					Bob
    

    
    Is there some kind of fabric seal bwtween the drum and the back wall of
    a dryer? does it have a technical name that a parts person would
    recognize?
    
    My dryer has started chewing up socks and small garments.
    

    >>My dryer has started chewing up socks and small garments.
    
    Your dryer is sick, very sick. If it were functioning correctly,
    these socks and small garments would be disappearing completely.
    
    A dryer off its feed can not survive long.
    
    John H.

    
    
    Re -2
    
       Yo  "Wild Bill"...
    
       You got it...there is a sort of highly dense felt type seal/slip
    ring on the back of the drum of most dryers, the ring (rotating) rides on 
    a outer ring (fixed) of teflon/plastic stuff. If the rotating seal ring 
    gets damaged it creates a gap which is filled with small items such as 
    socks and so forth...this failure mode gets your socks with brown friction
    burns on them..particularily with synthetuic fabrics like rayon/dacron...
    
      If the plastic fixed ring gets a raised or rough edge on it it will 
    start to rip said items to shreds bigtime.
    
      I would recommend taking the dryer apart to see which (or both) seals
    are shot before investing in a parts order....its very easy to do even
    for a non mechanical type such as myself...
    
      Cheers
    
       Ed
    

    
    Thanks for the info. I hope it's the seal, and not some type of newly
    aquired fetish...
    

The smoke pouring out of the washing machine was the belt frying.
So with new belt happily in hand I discovered that getting the new one in
without cutting it, is not the same proposition as removing the old broken
one was. 

Two questions:  

1) So how does one put a new belt in an old Whirlpool washingmachine?  
Someone talked about dropping the transmission. What hunk of ugly metal under
there was the transmission?  The one with the cobwebs?  

2) Suppose I get the new belt on.  Am I going to then discover why the old 
one fried?  Like is there a sock in my pump too?  How does one dissect a pump.

3) So I lied and asked more than two questions.  I envy you folks that tackle
big appliances.  Is this really a DIY or should I call the repair man.  Is there
a handyman's book in the public library I should head for?

Help - the diapers are piling up all around us and the next baby is due in
three weeks!

-Bob

Bob,

You might talk to an appliance parts store and purchase a book
with the exploded drawing of your machine while you buy the
replacement belt. TimeLife books produces a series of books for
the home handy-man. They take time to list the tools and pointers
before you start the project.

About the appliance exploded drawing, it shows the relation of
the parts to you will see what parts are needed to be loosened to
change the drive belt. Usually, the motor mount has a bolt or two
to adjust the belt tension; thus loosening the motor mount might
allow you to see how the belt comes off. If you have not cut the
belt or if the belt is not destroyed, you can get a fairly good
idea how it all comes apart.

Couple of hints,

1 the washer will have some water left in it; in the pump or the
hoses. Have a few rags and abucket to drain the water into.

2 unplug the power and disconnect the hoses; hot, cold and drain
hoses before starting the project.

3 usually after one time of repairing, you might decide what you
can do or what you'd rather pay hard earned money for others to
do.

cal

Thanks for the pointers.  I had hoped it would be obvious by looking under
the machine which bolts to undo, but when previous noters talked of 
spin cycles no longer working that kinda queered my enthusiasm for 
experimenting.  I've got enough else on my mind right now, (like getting
my toilet off the side yard and installed back in the house-- heck of a
bird bath)

I haven't heard the report yet from my wife who was going to
check the Nashua Public Library today for some useful books but I'm 
hoping she can turn something up.  Somebody mentioned Sear's handbook
for the DIY repairman.  Anybody able to compare that one to the Time/Life
set?  Going back to the supply shop is a good idea and we may work that
one also.

-B

A week more like this and I'll have to start wearing my nice clothes.
They'll all think I'm interviewing for a new job ;-)

I have a "Fix It Yourself" and a "Do It Yourself" book put out by Reader's
Digest.  It's my first point of reference for any around-the-house DIY
stuff.  I'm positive that there's a section on appliance repair.  They
should be available at any reasonable bookstore.

>Thanks for the pointers.  I had hoped it would be obvious by looking under
>the machine which bolts to undo, but when previous noters talked of 
>spin cycles no longer working that kinda queered my enthusiasm for 
>experimenting.

	Usually why this happens is that whe you take off a bolt you forget
where it goes or a spring flies off, etc...

	If you tackle yourself... Go slowly and whatch for those things also
many things can goe together differently so a good rule of thumb is to 
reverse your steps for reassembly...

		Bill_who_has_spent_hours_in_past_placing_those_extra_bolts...

Last night I disconnected all the hoses and and didn't find any socks or
obvious obstructions.  Did find the pocketful of BBs I must have lost to 
the wash 20 years ago when the machine was my Mom's.  te he.

Question:  I manually spun all the pullies like the library book says and
yes the water pump was hard to turn.  So what's too hard??  I could turn 
it but it took an effort.  Should it spin freely like all the other pullies
did?  Is it time to replace the pump, or should I burn out the new belt
and then go back and buy a belt and pump for round 2?  :-)

    Bob,
    
    	We have the same problem every now and again ... after washing
    greasy clothes.  I'm no expert, but it seems to me that some of the
    grease ends up stuck in the washer, and subsequent loads pick it up. 
    Try running a couple of cycles with ALL HOT water, and some strong
    detergent and see if that helps.  Our usually goes away within a few
    loads (but not before several things are ruined!)
    
    pw

re: -.1  
	I'm confused. My problem is the belt quit turning and the motor pulley
kept going which burned through the belt.  I'm wondering whether the pump has
gotten too hard to drive.  It is hard to turn by hand but how hard is too hard?
It is definitely tighter than all the other pulleys under there but I can turn
it by hand if I grip hard. 

-Bob

As a general hint (in addition to the previous one, to have rags handy),
one of the "kinks" I learned is to pull the machine out a couple of feet
from the wall, and tilt the whole washer back so the top is resting
against the wall. You can then work on the bottom without groveling on
your belly.

I watched while a repairman did this, popped the water pump open and
removed a penny from the pump. That penny cost me $30+. I've made all
subsequent repairs myself. Including replacing our dryer belt just last
week. That one was also fun.

Art

	Whirlpool has an 800 number that you can call for technical advice on 
repairing your own appliance. I just used them to fix my Whirlpool refrigerator.
They were extremely helpful and friendly. Here is the number in case you are
interested - 1-800-253-1301.

    
    
    RE .15.....should turn freely..bet theres a sock in there!
    
     E
    

re: .17, Yes I'm interested, thanks for the number.

re: .18  Well I laid the machine right over on its face like the book says
and that makes getting at stuff much easier.  In fact, there ain't no way
I'm laying on my basement floor.  Yech.  This project has spanned the course
of several evenings, but last night, with machine already on its face 
removal of the water pump required loosening three hose clamps and two 
bolts.  Not even a five minute operation.  Nothing was rusted or stuck
or anything.  Amazing.  The book says when you replace the hose clamps not
to put them back on the same grooves as that promotes leaking.  Guess all
the squeeze is out of that there groove. 

The pump really was hard to turn so my wife got a new one today and she
says the new one is practically free turning.  The book says the old water
pump is rarely worth repairing.  You open it to remove the obstruction and
just about always trash the seals which are now old and creatures of habit
so when you close it you've got a leak.  The new pump was $28 and the
counter man said the worst they get is $30.  So I saved the old one and will 
open it up just for fun tonight and see if I find anything interesting.

-Bob

-Bob

The pump should turn easily (no belt attached). If there's lint
or other materials in there, it would jam the pump or make it
hard to turn.

Pump comes apart easily but some appliance repair folks will not
repair a pump; only replace them since the pump might leak later.
If you rea a DIY person, taking it apart will determine if it's
worth to replace the pump. Some of the newer pumps are nylon
plastic, screwed together and have a rubber O gasket between the
two halves.

Our Magic_Chef washer developed a squeal so I had Judy call the
repair folks. They found the pump hard to turn so they tried to
sell a new pump. Having a smart head on her shoulder, Judy said
no and had me take the pump apart; I discovered that there was a
small nut that I had left in my pocket, that jammed the pump and
scored the plastic housing slightly. Job taking the pump apart
took 20 minutes. Works great now.

cal

Well, I dissected the old pump.  No lost socks.  Just a leaky gasket and
a rusted shaft.  It was kaput.  I installed the new pump and ran a few loads,
toasted our cleverness and success and put in a huge load and went to bed.
Woke up the next morning to the sound of the washer motor still running.
Sigh. It burned out the new belt and the motor just kept going all night.  
I felt very stupid.  But amazingly enough the motor appears to be fine.  So I
installed a new belt.  My wife, bless her, went down and bought the second
belt. I didn't have to guts to face the man at the supply store.  Now we're
limping along.  The machine will do small loads just fine and the new pump is
happy but if I put in a full load she just doesn't make it out of the agitate
cycle.  It'll croak going into the rinse or into the spin.  If I wasn't there
nursing it along and ready to dive on the switch, I'd've burned out another
belt. I tried tightening the belt and it didn't run at all.  I read loosening
it will ensure it will slip and burn.  While it was on its face it leaked a
black slimy fluid which I suppose came out of the transmission.  So I'm
figuring this machine doesn't owe me a thing and may not be worth further
effort.  So we're limping along with half loads with our eyes open for a new
machine. 

There was one thing I did that made me nervous.  This is going to be
uncomprehensible if you've never replaced a belt, but I'll try to explain it.
When you replace the belt, you remove all support brackets.  You also remove a 
bolt on one bar that has a little spacer that falls out so you can slip the
new belt through.  Right next to that is another bar/shaft that has a spring
attached and a nut on it.  I found out too late that you don't need to mess
with that nut.  When you loosen the nuts on all the other support shafts/bars
(whatever those things are called that mount the transmission) then the whole
lousy assembly moves and you get smash your knuckles and you jam the new belt
through the gag that opens between that nut and pressure plate that grabs to
make the tub spin.  Still with me?  Well I messed with that nut and I'm sure
it adjusts how that pressure plate grabs the basket when the machine does
its breaking and spinning.  But the book never mentions that adjustment and
of course now I have no idea if I should tighten or loosen it.

Two questions.  

Q1: Anybody know about that adjustment and what it does?

Q2: With it leaking transmission fluid, is this thing a goner now?
    I left it laying face down overnight and lost probably a tablespoon full.

-Bob

With apologies to those who could care less about the continuing saga of
the old washing machine.
 

Q1: Anybody know about that adjustment and what it does?

Q2: With it leaking transmission fluid, is this thing a goner now?
    I left it laying face down overnight and lost probably a tablespoon full.

-Bob

THe black goo sounds like the grease overheated and turned black.
Some grease are black so colour may noy be total indicator. If
the grease is enough to flow, then it's definitely overheated
somewhere along the line.

Do you have a service book for the washer or access to one?

cal 

RE: Do you have a service book for the washer or access to one?

Nope.  I've been working from a generic washer repair book from the 
library, but the photos look like they were taken from my machine (minus
the rust, spiders ...).

This weekend the machine choked again, this time on half a load.
I was standing by the switch and shut her down.  Reaching under and 
tugging on the belt, I ascertained that the restriction was the 
transmission now.  So I finessed the entire issue and bought a Maytag.
What a world of difference.  I had the salesman prop the machine back 
and you really can change the belts in a matter of minutes on that machine.
When I got it home I popped off the front cover.  Oh yes, you perform 
any other service from the front with it standing upright!

Anybody looking for an almost new waterpump from a Whirlypuddle?

-Bob

    Does anyone know why my washing machine does not drain water? I started
    the washing machine, water ran into tub, clothes washed, and when it
    came time to drain the water from tub and begin the spin cycle, the
    machine just sat there and did nothing.  
    
    I still have water in the machine, any suggestions as to what is
    wrong? Is this easily fixable or should I call a repair person?
    
    

By "did nothing", do you mean it made no sound or motion, or it did but the
water didn't move?  The problem might be in the electrical switching circuits
including the timer, may be in the pump, or elsewhere.  Does the washer
spin and agitate normally?

It is likely to be something you CAN fix, if only you can figure out what
is wrong and where to get the parts.  Whether it is worth the aggravation
is up to you.

				Steve

    The pump may have seized up, or broken a belt.  You may be able 
    to get the front panel off without tilting the machine back, and
    if so you can probably check the pump and belt situation.

    In answer to 965.21, the washer did fill with water and the agitator
    did spin properly during the wash cycle. When the water was suppose to
    drain, the machine clicked (going into next cycle) and did nothing. The
    washing machine cover did lock as it normally does during the
    drain/spin cyle. If I turn the cylcle dial into wash mode, the machine
    works. For whatever reason, the water will not drain.
    

    Had the  same problem, with my G.E. washer last year.  Tightened
    the belt, and it's still running.

    another suggestion, how about a clogged drain hose. If the motor goes
    into the drain cycle, and appears to be pumping, but nothing is coming
    out, then I would look for an obstruction of some sort.

    That sounds like what's happened to me three times so far with my
    current washing machine (Kenmore). The first time, I watched the
    repairman as he changed the drain pump. It took him about half an hour
    and cost me close to $100. The second time, I went to the Sears parts
    place and bought my own drain pump for less than ten dollars and spent
    two hours replacing it. Two years later, the drain pump died again and
    I replaced it in about 45 minutes. The symptoms were exactly as you
    described. You loosen up the belt, undo a couple of bolts, take off 
    the hoses, take the new drain pump and reverse the procedure. Just make
    sure you have a catch basin for the water in the hoses. Also, I used a
    wet/dry vac to get the water out of the drum before I started.

    Thanks for everyone's help.

    I was looking at my washer last night and trying to figure out
    how to get the top off.  I have the exact same problem as the
    original noter - rust out around the top/lid area.  I'd like to
    see if I could sand/cleanup and re-paint as some one suggested
    but I don't understand how to get the top off!  the top of my 
    machine has a raised section in the back with the typical nobs -
    load size, water temp, wash cycle selector.  There is one screw
    that I can see inside the lip of the washer - the part that butts
    up to the lid when it is closed.  There are also two - one on each
    end- brackets (?) with a screw in it on the back of the upright
    control section.  I tried un doing the screws on the brackets so 
    see if this would allow me to swing the top section either back
    or forward but it doesn't seem to make any difference.
    
    How do I get the top off?  I don't want to ask my husband to attempt
    this until I have a pretty good idea of what to do.  Until our clothes
    are covered with rust marks - just a few occasionaly spots to date -
    this is NOT going to be a priority item on his list!
    
    Thanks,
    
    kathy

    re: .28
    
    Not sure...but I think I'd try taking the front off, and see if
    that led to any insightful revelations.  On my Maytag, the front
    comes off fairly easily with two (?) screws down at the bottom
    edge of the front panel.  (This is a 1970-vintage machine, so the
    design may have changed since then, and if yours is not a Maytag,
    all bets are off....)
    

                                                    
    
    I believe that most top loading washing machines have pull-up tops 
    hinged at the back.  Simply open the loading lid, grab the top from the 
    inside front edge and pull up.  It usually takes a fairly hefty pull but 
    it should pop right up.  Once you have it open, you should be able to 
    remove the entire lid by removing the hinges.   
    
    Good luck,
    
    /Jeff

The Kenmore washers have the entire shell clamped to the back.  You remove
the two screws that secure the control panel from the front, swing it up, then
pry up the two metal clamps.  After unhooking the hoses and wire connectors,
the shell will then tilt back and lift off.

				Steve

    My Kenmore washer has two spring tabs in the front, approximately an
    inch in from the outside edge. Standing at the front of the washer, 
    I have to take a putty knife and push the tabs back and the front of
    the top comes up. I then lift up the top and the back edge is held on
    with two clips so all I have to do is slide the top towards the back.
    Disconnect the wires, taking care to mark them or draw a good diagram
    of how they're connected, and you're all set. I've had to sand, prime
    and paint my washer top once. It seems to be a fairly common occurance
    with Kenmores as both my parents and my in-laws have had the same
    problem.

    Well the top of the washer is sitting in my basement with a fresh
coat of paint on it!  Now if I get the machine back together okay
everything will be great!  Take it apart was really easy once I
read Steve's (.31) description of how to take the top off.  The 
control panel came off with two (2) screws, one tube (for the water
level control), one plug and a ground wire.  I had a little problem
with the top but once I figured it out all was fine.  Took me about
three hours total to take apart, scrap & sand, wash & dry and paint.

One more question.  I have one cost of rustolium paint on the area
that I cleaned up, can I put a second coat of paint on top of it 
tonight?  The can doesn't say anything about applying a second coat.
Should I sand lightly and apply a second coat or just leave it a lone
and go with one coat?

Boy I was so proud of myself yesterday for getting it all apart, I 
just hope I get it all back together!

Thanks for all the help! 

Kathy (who_thought_she'd_have_to_buy_a_new_washer!)
    

    re: .33
    
    Did you use Rustoleum primer?  If so, a color coat of Rustoleum paint
    should work well.
    
    You should sand lightly so there will be a good 'grip' and a nice
    smooth surface.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    I've found that Rustoleum takes longer to dry than they claim, but
    ond day should be long enough so you can paint over it.  I think
    you'll find though that the paint will be more durable after about
    a week though, so be a bit careful of it for the first couple of
    days.

    Well I put another coat of rustoleum on last Thursday night
    when I got home.  On Friday it was dry enough to handle so I
    re-assembled the washer. Guess what it works!  After I put
    it together I ran extra small load - only the shower curtain
    liner through just to make sure I had everything connected 
    correctly.  Boy this really was an easy fix, and to thing I
    was ready to buy a new washer because of the rust!!  
    
    I'm sure glad I checked this file before I did anything else!
    
    Thanks for all the help!
    
    Kathy

    
    
    well now that that problem is resolved!...I have a problem with my
    Kenmore with its spin cycle. When it spins, I hear a clicking noise
    (like a relay clicking)approximately twice per second. I looked into 
    the back and the clicking seems to be coming from what looks like
    a relay assembly (two coils) as two slotted rods alternate back and
    forth  under the coils in the assembly. I'm trying to figure out
    what this relay/mechanical assembly is supposed to do. It seems to
    be mounted on what I believe is the transmisson.
    
    Thanks ... rob

    The wig wag, they called it at the parts store...
    one of the relays in mine died , actually a solenoid type thing and 
    my washer wouldn't spin... replaced it rather inexpensively...
    Wasn't too hard to replace, sears parts store had it in stock.
    Don't remeber the price but have it at home...
    
    Jean

    Update on the rusty washer question: Has anybody tried repairing a
    cracked drum? At present there's a small rusted area on the top edge of
    the drum - would it be feasible to try patching it before it gets too
    extensive, or is it more likely to be a sign of imminent
    disintegration? I'd guess some kind of epoxy filler might hold, but if
    anybody's had experience at this I'd appreciate their comments.
    
    -b

    
    re .37
    
    Check with the manufacture of the washer. Even though it may be past
    warrenty, the drum may not be. My Mom had a whirlpool that rusted after
    10 years of use. They sent a whirlpool rep out and they replaced the
    drum for free. But 2 months later the motor burned up. 8*(
    
    I wouldn't try a epoxy filler. I doubt that it will hold.
    
    Mike

    All this talk of rust brings up a problem I've encountered on a
    somewhat intermittant basis...Have a Kenmore washer @5yrs...and every
    once and a while there will be rust spots that show up on some of the
    clothes after the final spin cycle...they are about the size of the
    small holes in the side of the tub. I've gone over the inside of the
    tub with a flashlight to see if there is any apparent rusting on some
    of the holes but find nothing...
    ???Has anyone encountered this before ???
    
    	What can I do to locate / fix the problem...?
    	
    	..
    	 >
    	 O--~~
    
    
    

I'd bet the rust is in the water coming in.  Do you rust stains in the tub?

A water filter will help, but not eliminate the problem.  

To eliminate the problem the town will have to dig up all the old water mains
and replace them.    

    Has anyone ever heard of or seen plans for a base that can be used
    to put a washer and/or dryer onto so that it can be easily moved?
    I have a washer and a dryer in my downstairs bathroom and it is
    currently sitting on linoleum.  Whenever I have had to move my
    washer, it has ripped up the linoleum.  I plan on tiling that
    floor in the next few months and would like to build some sort of
    base with wheels, that I can put my washer and dryer on so that
    moving them will have no effect on the flooring.
    
    Anyone ever seen this? or should I just build my own?
    
    				
    					Thanks,
    					Eric

    It should be fairly easy to build a platform with heavy duty castors. 
    But a word of caution:  washers tend to vibrate quite a bit, especially
    during the spin cycle.  You might be better off finding a way to add
    legs aling with the castors so that you have a stable base.
    
    Dan

    
    
    There are whhels available for appliances that are paret of an assembly
    so you can roll out the appliance (ususally a refrigerator) and clean
    behind it. I assume you could use tis for an electric dryer. 
    
    The washer presents a problem, as if it was simply on casters or
    wheels,
    it wouyld dfinitely walk due to the even slight out of balance on a
    spin cycle.
    
     I would be tempeted to buil a woooden platform with locking casters
    for the washer. This way you could move the washer into position, lock
    the wheels and you would be ok. When you went to move the washer,
    simply unlock trhe casters and oll it away.
    
     Locking casters (they are available in swuiveling/non swiveling)
    have a foot operated locking mechnism tat locks the wheel , with the
    same effect that the parking brake on a car has. Checj your local
    hardware tore- true value hardware stores should carry them.
    
    
     Dick
    
    
    

    I would think, that unless you must move the washer/dryer very often,
    that wheels would be over-kill.  Being a single homeowner, I often must
    move furniture and other heavy stuff by myself.  Having hardwood
    floors, means one can't slide stuff around.  Here's my solution:
    
    Take four, one foot square pieces of carpet.  Place one under each leg,
    pile side down.  One little guy like me, can push a sofa across the
    room with one hand.  For a washer, I'd lever each corner with a 1 x 2,
    to slip the carpet under and use two hands to push.
    
    Alan

My mother had a Maytag on a caster base. We'd roll the washer up to the
sink, connect it up, and pull a lever that came out of the caster base.
That lever caused the machine to drop slightly, and the wheels to go up
slightly, with the end result being that the washer feet were not sitting
solidly on the floor. When it was time to roll it way we pulled the
lever in the opposite direction, which jacked the machine up off the
floor and forced the wheels down. 

I have *no* idea where that base came from, but I wanted to tell you that
at one time in one place in the world there was one.

ARt

    I don't think you'd want the washer, at least, to be able to roll very
    easily, so I like the idea in .4.  If the washer can move easily, you
    are sure to eventually have a load in it that doesn't balance well and
    have the thing go all over the room; that's why washing machines have a
    big counter-weight bolted to the bottom (well, mine does, anyhow - a
    big cement-block-like weight).  You may be able to use locking
    furniture wheels if you make a base for it to move on.  Also, if you
    have a front-loading washer, you might have less trouble with the thing
    moving around when not balanced than a top-loader like mine has.
    
    /Charlotte

I'm not sure this will meet all of your concerns,but if all you need to do 
is move the things in one direction, I'd cut a platform out of half or
three-quarter inch plywood, then use a 1 or two inch spade bit to 'route'
out depressions in the plywood for the appliance's wheels (so it won't 'walk'
off the platform), and then put a pair of those applicance rollers (available
at Somerville or Spag's) underneath.  Quick, simple, reliable, but one direction
movement only.

thanks for all the suggestions.

I think I may just go with .6 and just put a piece of plywood with
wheels on it under each unit.  I don't have any problem with moving
the dryer, it's lighter, and newer, and has plastic legs that don't
damage the floor.  The washer is old and has the metal legs and just
rips apart the linoleum.  When I tile the floor, I want to make sure that 
moving the washer won't damage the floor.  Since it is older, I have had to
work on it about once every six months or so.  Single direction wheels
are fine.  I could even slide it on those wheels and they won't damage
the floor like the metal legs do.


I may also try the carpet trick mentioned first.  If that works good
on linoleum, its sure to work fine on tile.

    
    I picked up some 'things' at the home show last weekend which
    are rubber on the side you put against the machine and teflon
    coated hard plastic on the other side.  I don't know if I'd want
    to use that on hardwood (i use the carpet trick...) but on linoleum,
    tile, carpet, etc these worked great!
    
    deb
    

    Re: .8
    
    I also have some of these "Glisdomes", which I also bought at a home
    show.  They work well, but would allow a washer to slide around a bit.
    
    			Steve

    I'm having a problem that I haven't seen directly addressed in any
    topic. The problem is with a washer. During the spin cycle the washer
    will ONLY spin until most of the water is drained and then shut
    down,(about 1 minute) Instead of spining until all the water is drained
    and the clothes are rinsed and spun dried.(about 10 minutes) I've seen
    problems in these topics about washers not spining at all, But this one
    spins fine, just not long enough. I,ve checked the drain hose for
    kinks, or any obstructions, but it seems fine.
     The washer was just moved from one house to another, And was laid on
    it's side (A truly stupid decision) during the move. It was working
    fine before the move, So I'm thinking this had something to do with it.
    Any help would be appreciated.
    Thanks!
    -DAVE-

    Sounds like perhaps a wire was dislodged from the timer or some
    other location.  I'd pop the lid and such (with the power off!)
    and see if I couldn't locate a loose wire.

      I tried that last night. I removed the back to look for any loose
    wires,belts, or anything else that didn't look right. no luck.
    The timer seems to work fine at all the other cycles. It also seems
    to spin only to drain out what water thats in it. If I set it at 
    the spin cycle with no water in it, or at the spin only cycle, it
    does nothing.
    -DAVE-

    Isn't there usually a sensor switch used to detect off balance drums
    and shut the spin down ?
    
    If so, it's possible that the switch was damaged or jammed in the move.
    
    Stuart

          I also thought about the problem being a balance problem.
    But if it were, why would it be balanced with water in it, and not
    balanced without water? The drum does seem to move around alot, when I
    move it with my hand (OFF), But it seems to spin fine when running, And
    seems to shut down at the exact same moment everytime.(when the water
    drains from the basket)
    -DAVE-

    If I remember how my washer works, when it goes into the spin cycle,
    the pump first goes on to begin draining water out of the drum. Then
    the spin begins, but all of the water is not yet out of the drum. So if
    the "out of balance" switch is damaged, it wouldn't do anything till
    the drum started spinning.
    
    Eric

    
    After the tipping, your washer may be confused about the amount of
    water in the drum.
    
    If the water level sensor is connected to the drum by a platic tube,
    drain all water from the drum, disconnect the tube from the sensor, blow
    out and reconnect the tube, and try again.
    
    I don't think the spinning should start until all the water is out of
    the drum (except, of course, that which will be spun out of the
    clothing). I can always hear my pump start to suck air at least 30
    seconds before the spin starts. The only times it started to spin with
    standing water still in the drum, I fixed it either as above or by
    cleaning out a partially clogged pump.
    

I'd look for a kinked hose. The machine doesn't really know how much
water is in the drum. It spins for a set amount of time. If, in that
time, the water hasn't had a chance to exit (due to the kinked hose) it
will exhibit the symptoms you mentioned.

ARt

    After reading your responses, I've realized a few things.
    First, The fact that the drum starts turning, and draining at the same
    time does seem odd. I didn't think about it till it was mentioned here,
    But I believe it sould drain first and then begin to spin. 
    Second, It almost seems as if the spin cycle is working backwards.
    Instead of draining for 1 minute (?) and spining for 10 (?), It's
    draining AND spining for 1 minute and doing nothing for 10.
     As stated earlier, This is a used machine. So it's either fix it
    or trash it for a new one. So I appreciate all your responses.
    - Thanks - P.S. It is a KENMORE, If that helps any.
     -DAVE-

    Dave,
    Now that I know it is a KENMORE, i'll offer some advice.
    I have a Sears washer (now about 13 years old).  
    Check the wires going to the wigwags, they tend to break
    easily and when they do the machine does what it wants.
    I got tired of fixing broken wires on mine and rewired
    the machine with better wire and lots of shrink tubing
    to transfer the movement of the wire to a different location
    on the wire.  If its not that, my next guess would be the
    timer.
    
    mike
     

I was given a gas dryer which was converted to LP, and I want to convert it 
back to natural gas.  Sears's parts department said that to convert it back to
natural gas would be ~$130 for parts, as converting to LP distorts some parts
(hence the high price tag). 

Has anyone out there done this before?  Any ideas where I can get a used
burner at a reasonable (cheap) price?  I contacted the local towns (I live in
Grafton, MA) and they contract out appliance pickups to places that won't let
me rummage. 

I'm also pursuing this in the Classified Ads notes file.

Thanks.

								-- Chuck Newman

    re: .28
    
    Chuck,
    
    Our house was originally LP (piped underground), and was then
    converted to natural gas.  The gas company came out to convert
    all of the burners (furnace, stove, water heater, dryer).  IN
    every case, the solution was to modify the vent/orifice for
    the burner.  They never had to replace an entire burner or
    anything.  The dryer we have (wards, made by norge) took about
    2 minutes to convert.
    
    Soo - you don't need a new burner, so you save $$ there.  But
    you need to have someone who knows exactly what to modify come
    out and make the change.  The only difference between LP and
    natural gas (to a burner, anyhow) is the pressure coming in
    (LP high, Natural lower), and the orifice/vent change is all
    that's necessary.
    
    good luck,
    andy
    

When I went to convert my Nat Gas dryer to LP the kit cost $40.00.  The guy
told me that they were converting all of the "ice cream cone" style burners to
stainless steel because of problem they were having with the Nat Gas versions
eating away at the normal metallic ones.

$120 sounds high (very) for the conversion back.

Brian

    Usually, the only difference between the LP and the Natural gas version
    is the orifice. However, if the replacement part is out of production,
    a new gas valve may be the best solution.  You can usually take the
    information off the present gas valve (manufacturer, model #, etc) to a
    heating contractor and they can get the needed parts for the
    changeover,  if available.  If not, they can sell you a replacement gas
    valve. Sounds like Sears is charging you for a new gas valve at their
    markup price.  Unless it is a real odd-ball, ~130 sounds a tad high for
    a gas valve.
    
    You DO NOT want to get a used gas valve.

     re:27
    
    what is a wigwag?
    
    Tony
    

    You could invest in a $50 2 wheel-dolly and move anything you want
    in your house quickly and basically effortlessly.
    
    Steve

My washer is a Norge.  The way I think it is supposed to work is when the
motor turns one way - that is the spin cycle,  the motor reverses to agitate. 
There is also a brake on a solenoid that is  engaged except during the spin
cycle.

Last night it was not working.  I found I could get it to spin and pump out the
water by manually releasing the brake.  Sometimes the solenoid would work and
release the brake, but not in the correct sequence ( according to the sequence
chart ).  Timer needs work ?  Right?

Also it would not agitate.  During the wash cycle it would fill, then the motor
would come on but would not turn.  The lights dimmed way down, a smoky smell
came from the motor.  Shortly a thermal breaker opened.  I took the belt off
and tried turning things by hand.  The transmission can not be turned by hand. 
I thought I should be able to??   What could be wrong, transmission?

Also while I had the belt off, I ran the motor through the cycles with no load. 
The motor ran in both directions as I thought it should, but it seemed to run
roughly with vibration and it got quite warm ( it had cooled from the previous
smoking ).  I thought the motor would have been cool when run with no load??
I wonder if the motor is OK?

My normal experience when things break and do not work is that there is usually
only one thing wrong with them; but I seem to have a transmission problem, a
timer problem and maybe a motor problem?  Is it time to get a new one? ( this
one is about 8 years old ). 

I have a Kenmore washer, approx. 8-years-old, that is experiencing problems 
similar to those described in earlier notes:

During the Normal cycle, it will seem to get 'stuck' in the Rinse/Spin cycle --
that is, it fills with water and agitates endlessly.  If I manually forward
the dial to the point that it begins draining, it drains most (but not all)
water from the tub.  Because water is still in the tub, the spin cycle never
begins -- it just sits there (no noise, not a sound except for the occasional
shot of rinse water which is common during the spin cycle) while the timer
forwards the dial eventually to the end.

Looking over previous notes, I decided to dive in and check things out.  I 
removed the top panel and checked for anything obivously wrong (burnt/broken/
loose wires or contacts) but found nothing.  Removed the top of the machine
and followed all wires that lead from the top panel to other parts of the
machine -- again, found nothing obviously wrong but tried reseating all wires
I could get to reasonably easy.  

Frustrated that I didn't find what I was hopeing was an easy fix, I put 
everything back together and decided to try another cycle.  I cannot recall 
exactly the steps that led to it but I did get the tub to drain.  After 
this, I moved the dial to Spin Only and it worked like a charm.  So, I again 
forwarded the dial to the Rinse/Spin cycle.  This time, the cycle went from 
agitate to drain successfully without any manual intervention.  However, this 
time it did not drain completely.  I am now back where I started.

There are no kinks in the hose and, as I said before, it does drain most of
the water.  No loose belts.  It spins fine once the tub is drained.

I would like to find the most timely, yet cost efficient, way to go with this.
I am hesitant to go to Sears and buy a timer because I am not certain it is 
the problem, and I am not altogether confident Sears will accept a returned
timer.  Sears wants $35 just to troubleshoot, and then will charge parts and 
labor (book labor) on top of that.  I estimate their total charge (assuming 
it to be reasonably easy like a solenoid or timer) to be at least $150.

Any advice would be appreciated...

-Andy

Re .65 -- Never mind...

    This is my first-ever NOTESfile entry, but this problem is driving me
    nuts.  When our washing machine begins it's spin cycle, the little
    "doughnut" that holds fabric softener (sitting atop the agitator) is
    supposed to spin.  The spinning is supposed to force the fabric
    softener over the sides of teh "doughnut", out into the clothes.  So
    far, I understand, and it works right, *most* of the time.
    
    The problem is this:  Every couple of days, instead of spinning
    normally, the little "doughnut" flips part way off the top of the
    agitator with enough force that it pops the lid on the washer up about
    1/2 inch.  This is just enough for the fabric softener to fly
    completely out of the washing machine, whereupon it proceeds to
    *splatter all over the walls in the laundry room*!!!  Incredible mess,
    and it's even worse if the stuff dries before we get it cleaned off.
    
    I have tried cleaning the several years worth of sludge out of the
    "doughnut", no help.  I have recently replaced the drive belt between
    the motor and the drum, and the problem seemed to abate, but it came
    back again yesterday.  I already know I have to repaint the laundry
    room, but would like to correct this problem so I only have to repaint
    it once.
    
    Exasperatedly,
    Steve

    I don't believe I've seen a setup like you're describing, but
    perhaps it's similar to what I've got.  On our machine (Maytag)
    there's a little cup that sits in the top of the agitator,
    which I presume is for the same purpose (we never use fabric
    softener, so I don't know).  Anyway, I've found that if there
    are LOTS of suds in the water, the soapbubbles can force the
    cup up and out of its hole in the top of the agitator.  Perhaps
    you can run a wash cycle in your usual manner, stop the machine
    just before the spin phase, and check on the position of what
    you're calling the "doughnut" and the plentifulness soap bubbles.

    The point in the cycle where this occurs is just after the "low speed"
    spin where the dirty soap-water has been pumped out.  In the most
    recent incident - the clothes were spun to the outside of the drum (not
    wrung out, by any means, just away from the center) and the machine had
    started to (1) spin rapidly, and (2) add rinse-water.  No soap-suds
    present...
    
    I thought the problem may have been from an "off-balance" load, so
    (after cleaning the walls again) I overrode the interlock to watch with
    the lid up.  The drum wobbled, but not excessively...
    
    Steve

    
    Well, this is a WAG, but it seems to me that the only possibility
    for creating an upward movement violent enough to lift the cover and
    spatter liquid on the walls is a worn gear, which may be popping out of
    line once or twice as it attempts to overcome the inertia of the
    basket of soaked laundry (perhaps from a larger-than usual load?).
    
    My test for this hypotheis would be to run half-loads until I was sure
    the unacceptable behavior was not recurring.
    

    re: .69
    The suds wouldn't have to be present at the time the problem 
    occurred - the "doughnut" may have been forced out of position
    previously, enough so when the spin cycle starts it gets flung
    up/out because it's already unbalanced, out of line, or whatever.

    re: .70 
    Lid is propped open by the "doughnut" when it comes off of its
    "seat"... it angles up 15 or 20 degrees.  Not far enough for the
    interlock to cut out the motor.  Only raises lid about 1/4 inch, just
    enough room for softener to spew out.  Will try the 1/2 load technique,
    but it seems like a waste - if that is problem, probably better get a
    new machine.
    
    re: .71
    Hadn't thought of that.  Will check into it.  Maybe switch to low-suds
    soap, if I can find any.
    
    re: both...
    Thank you.  I have been at wits end.
    
    
    Steve

Could it be that your "doughnut" is worn/deformed so that it is not a snug fit? 
This could cause it to pop off when your spin cycle gets up to take off speed.  
It would be a shame to buy a new machine for the price of a "doughnut".  Buy a 
new "doughnut" and check it out.  I hear Dunkin' Donuts is running a special...

Stan

    Could it be that your overfilling the machine?  Do you throw the
    clothes in before the tub's filled?  we used to have machine problems
    and noticed that they only happened when one particular daughter would
    wash clothes.  Turned out she liked to watch the washer fill.  So, she
    would throw in the clothes after the water had already hit the right
    level, causeing it to rise even more.  If your washer is filled too
    high, it may be causeing the doughnut to "float" off of it's perch.
    
    Chris D.

    Did you lock down the agitator?  Mine is removable and I could envision
    its starting such an ejection as the spin cycle starts.
    
    ed

    re: .73  Will check for worn doughnut...hadn't thought of that.
    
        .74  don't think it's a "too full" problem...I'm the "fill it
    first" washer in my family, and it usually pops when my wife is using
    the machine.  (could that be because I only use it 10% of the time?)
    
        .75  The mechanism that locks the agitator down is pretty tired. 
    You may be right.  I will check at the GE parts center (machine is a
    Hotpoint) to see if they carry agitators, or doughnuts.
    
    Steve

    
         Throw it in the trash and but dryer (Bounce) sheets.
    
                                          Sounds simple enough!
    
                                                   A Yankee

	How bout this....


	Have a Whirlpool heavy duty washer that spins ok but leaves clothes
soaking wet when through the cycle. What should I look for? Clogged hoses???
Works ok occasionally.... Had it fixed while under warranty but now the 
warranty is through. 


	Also anyone know where the lint trap is on such a washer usually ?

	Also anyone know the 800 number for whirlpool???

	thanks in advance

	leo

    
    Whirlpool Factory Service
    25 Walpole Park So.
    Walpole MA 02081
    
    (508) 668-1067
    (800) 622-2129
    
    

Does anyone have the number for Maytag?  My brother has one of those ones that 
has the dryer mounted over the washer.  He has lost his manual and wants to get
another.  The model is discontinued and I suggested he contact Maytag about
getting one.  So, hence the question.

Ed..

He could probably go to any Maytag service shop and order one.

			Steve

    Hi, I've read through this note a couple of times, and its seems like
    its been awhile based on the last entry.  I, too, have a similar
    problem as the base noter (.0).  While this information here gives me a
    lot of ideas I have some basic questions.
    
    Throughout the replies, there have been references to siphon breaks,
    check valves, and one-way flow valves.  Can someone provide some
    further description of what each term means?  
    
    As I would like to try some of the advice, I want to make sure I know
    the function of the various devices so that I can get the right pieces.
    
    Thanks
    Carl
    

Last night, I came home to about 3 inches of water in the laundry 
room. The washer (Sears) was off, but it was still filling with 
cold water. Should the cold water valve be the first place to 
look?

thanks
daryll

Not normal.

The thing I would look for is whether the dial to the washer was turned
enough to allow the water in but not start the machine on its cycle.

I wonder if your warranty (which probably expired last week) covers basement
damage (unlikely) for this type of equipment failure.

The water valve should be on.  The machine brings the water in and shuts it
off.

Bummer to hear about.

I checked it again last night. The machine was off. When I turned 
on the cold water supply, it began filling the washer. It seems 
to be just the cold water.

I'll have to look at the manual tonight and see if there's 
something I've missed.

FWIW, this washer is the top of the line Kenmore. It less than 3 
years old. It's also the LAST appliance of any type that I buy 
from them. 

daryll

    Mine did the same thing you describe.  Mine is a Frigidaire (SP?).
    Did you take the filler hoses off and check for lint/dirt?  My hoses
    have a cone shaped filter in each hose. Believe it or not that's what 
    was causing mine to fill even without being turned on!
    
    Marie

    What has likely happened is that the shutoff valve in the washer has
    failed. When you leave the supply lines to the washer turned on all of
    the time these valves get more "wear". The wear is especially bad if
    you have any kind of a water hammer in your plumbing. Most likely these
    need to be replaced.
    
    	My experience with this came when a neighbor in my condo asked me
    to see where the water was coming from in her unit. We eventually
    traced it to her washer. Her valve has developed a small leak. This
    leak was too small to notice readily but over 24hours was able to fill
    her machine to the point of overflow.
    
    	Good advice is to turn off the supply lines to your washer whenever
    you are done with it. You can purchase a special twin valve that can
    control both the hot and cold supply at the same time.

    
    I came across the same problem once. The machine would fill up when
    turned off and would NOT fill when running! The culprit was a small
    pebble in the input valve. This particular brand (?) used an input
    valve which was a rubber diaphram and solenoid. What was happening is
    the pebble was stopping the diaphram from seating when the machine 
    was turned off, and plugging the intake hole when the valve was
    energized. I took the valve assembly apart, cleaned it up, and voila!
    problem gone. Could be your valve assembly is dirty because the
    screens, if you have them, have rusted or maybe you have hard water.
    Try looking at the valve and if possible, disassemble and clean it.
    
    Roger 

    Hi,
    
    My two year old Kenmore washer won't fill.  The agitator runs and it
    spins and I can hear the pump working...the thing just won't fill, no
    water, hot or cold.
    
    Any ideas, suggestions on how I can troubleshoot?
    
    Bernie.

      I  had  this problem once with a GE washer.  The solenoid operated
      water valve in the washer was  the  culprit  --  as  suggested  in
      previous  replys.   On the GE it was easy to get a replacement and
      easy to fix -- once you removed the 10 zillion screws that  secure
      the  back panel.  There is no reason to think it would not be easy
      on the Kenmore washing machine.  DIY is highly  indicated  as  the
      labor would likely cost more than the part.

re: 962.78                  Random washer problems                     78 of 78
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>    My two year old Kenmore washer won't fill.  The agitator runs and it
>    spins and I can hear the pump working...the thing just won't fill, no
>    water, hot or cold.

Sounds like the "water solenoid" control.

In the older timers there is a cam which operates the Water Solenoids.

Since both are non-functional, I'd check that circuit. Some libraries
carry DIY books on various home appliances.

Sometimes the problem can be simply fixed by burnishing the contacts
of the relay controls. If the control opanel needs to be replaced, it can get 
costly (up to 1/3 the cost of the machine). 

Or the intake valve may be clogged.  This is a very easy repair on Kenmores, once
you figure out the magic way of removing the shell on the washer.  (You remove the
two screws on the front which hold down the control panel, swing it up, pry off
the two clips which hold the shell to the back, remove any ground wires and
hoses, and tilt the shell forward.  Even if you have to replace the valve,
it's pretty simple.

				Steve

I pulled the valve apart and cleaned it last weekend. Put it back 
together and it seems to be working fine.

I keep the lines off when the washer isn't in use....

Thanks to all.

daryll

    My washing machine problems are similar to one several back;
    
    The washer was running through the wash cycle, when smoke started
    coming from the machine.  The machine would not spin, nor drain.
    
    Now, the machine will wash (still smells "smoky" when running) BUT it
    will not spin and drain.
    
    Also, the cover doesn't LOCK anymore.
    
    The repairman says the motor is gone, but if that's the case,how can
    the machine go through the wash cycle??
    
    Any ideas?
    
    Regards,
    cj
    

    
    
     Thee are probably two sets of windings in the stator (non-moving part)
    of the motor - one is used for clockwise rotation, and the other used
    for counter clockwise. One set of the windings burned out.
    

    Sounds to me like the repair person wants to make a few bucks.  My
    washer did the same thing, smell and all.  So, I moved it away from the
    wall, removed the back, and ran it through a cycle.  Know what?  When
    the machine got to the drain cycle and the pump kicked in, the belt
    would slip.  The pump wasn't turning and the belt was burning.  And, if
    the tank does not empty, the machine will not spin.
    
    My solution, tighten the belt.  Cost me $0.  A year later, it happened
    again.  This time, the pump bearing was gone.  Which was starting to go
    a year previously, hence why the belt was slipping.  Replaced the pump,
    cost me $18.
    
    Check it out, before you pay megga bucks for a new motor.
    
    Alan

    I had a similar problem on mine (Kenmore), and it turned out to be
    a bad relay. Isolated the problem and replaced the part myself, at
    a cost of about $12. If you _must_ have it repaired by a repairman,
    I'd recommend getting a second opinion before you just let the first
    one replace the motor.
    
    Dale

    I have my washer and dryer up on pallets just in case water finds it's
    way into the basement (old fieldstone foundation, some evidence of
    watermarks on previous owner's stuff when we looked at the place). 
    This is turning out to be a bit of a problem when there is an
    unbalanced load.  The pallet surface doesn't provide enough traction
    when the washer tries to spin an unbalanced load.  Before the thing
    shuts it self down and sounds the alarm, the washer will move.  I
    believe this movement was the cause of one of the fill hoses failing
    and leaving a large amount of water on the basement floor the other
    day.
    
    Any suggestions on how to better secure the washer to the pallet?

A couple of thoughts, not knowing what the feet on your washer look like:

 - If they are threaded feet, replace them with a long bolt, drill a couple of
   holes in the pallet, and bolt the sucker down.

 - Might try a couple of heavy duty strip magnets attached to the pallet

My $02...   Bob

    I'd probably fasten 1x2s against the feet on all 4 sides of the
    machine so in effect the machine would be sitting in a very shallow
    box with no space to move.

    
    You can also get metal clips, some new stoves come with them and they
    call them anti-tip brackets. DEC computers also are shipped with a 
    clip that holds the threaded feet down. If you see field service
    installing a new system (the larger ones that have a built-in ramp on
    the skid) you might be able to get the clips for free.
    
    			Dave Saunders

    
      I would think that the whole thing would dance around then. 
    Think about building a platform out of concrete or mortared
    blocks then level the washer and dryer like you would on a normal 
    floor. Wood is bound to rot sooner or later and give you some
    new problems to deal with. BTW my  washer and dryer saw about
    8" of water one unusual rainy spring about 4 years ago and they
    are still going strong after 14 years of heavy use. Maytag must
    know that these things are bound to happen to some of us lucky folks.
    If every product I bought for my home was as good as these I would
    be delighted.

re .-1:

Why not a couple of layers of patio blocks?  I don't think you'd have to
use mortar -- they should stay in place by their own weight.  You could
always build a wooden frame around them if you were really concerned that
a dancing washer would move them around.

	    Wouldn't unbalanced loads be a major contributor to reduced
	washing machine life?  First off, I'd try to insure that the 
	clothes are distributed evenly inside the machine when it's being
	loaded.  It's doubtful that you could completely rid yourself of
	vibration but you might be able to eliminate the walking washing 
	machine.
	    Now, to solve your problem.  Take the pallet out from under
	the washing machine and replace it with four of those large/flat
	cinder blocks.  I have our washing machine on those and it does
	not seem to move at all.
					Tim

    I have a Kenmore washer which is starting to act up during the regular
    wash cycle.  During the wash cycle the machine will abruptly stop,
    start draining for 2-3 seconds, then resume washing.  This occurs
    several times, always at the same intervlals.  The result is
    that eventually there is not enough water left to wash the clothes.
    Another wierd occurance is that near the end of the wash cycle, the
    machine will drain completely, do a rinse-spin cycle, and then refill
    completely only to wash for about 1 minute before entering the real
    rinse-spin cycle.  I have gotten around the problem by placing the
    drain hose so that it drains back into the tub, until it is supposed
    to drain, then I turn the machine off, reposition the drain hose, and
    resume the spin-rinse cycle.  This really is a pain, so... any clues
    or similar experiences out there?
    
    BTW, it is a Kenmore 70 series heavy Duty, about 7 years old.
    
    
    -Chris

    re:.88
    
     Sounds like a bad timer to me- if not, there are a bunch of wires
    shorted!

    re:89
    	How do you test the timer, and where is it?
    
    -Chris

    re.88
    This happens to my Kenmore whenever some pea-brain decides to "speed
    up" the washing process...turns the dial during a cycle to get to the
    next.  It seems to mess up the timing mechanism for a couple of loads
    afterwards, but then works fine.  Just a thought.            Sarah

    
    
     I am assuming your washer has a mechanical timer. there is usually a
    wiring diagram on the back of the washer- some even have a timing
    digram that is displayed also.
    
     If you don't have any experiene with using a meter, or don't have a
    meter ( Volt/Ohm meter), then you may want to consider calling in a
    serc=ice rep. IF you feel comfortable using a meter and can read a
    wiring diagram, I would head to your nearest applinace repair store and
    get a service manual for your machine,. THis will tell you how to take
    the machine apart, get the timer out, etc.
     
     The timer is usually located right behind the knob that is used to set
    the type cycle and to start the machine. That knpb is connected to the
    shaft of the timer.
    
     I hasd an old GE that used to eat contacts on the timer- I finally
    ended up going to the dump one day and extracting the timers from about
    5 GE washers.  I then just replaced contacts when they would burn up
    by soldering some of the good ones from the junk timers.
    
     IF you are pretty sure it is the timer, they are not hard to replace-
    just make sure you mark all the wires and the connector they go to.
    
     Again, if you are not familiar with the use of a Volt/Ohm Meter, and
    are not familiar with wiring diagrams, this job is best left to a
    professional.
    
     Dick
    

>	Have a Whirlpool heavy duty washer that spins ok but leaves clothes
>soaking wet when through the cycle. What should I look for? Clogged hoses???
>Works ok occasionally.... Had it fixed while under warranty but now the 
>warranty is through. 


	In addition now the washing machine makes a horrible squeeling noise 
which only happens through the spin cycle. Any ideas??? Other that durin the
spin cycle all is fine

	leo

>	In addition now the washing machine makes a horrible squeeling noise 
>which only happens through the spin cycle. Any ideas??? Other that durin the
>spin cycle all is fine

Check the belt. I had the same problem. The squeel is probobly the belt 
slipping. I bought a new belt and made sure it was adjusted correctly.

Bill

Check the belt. I had the same problem. The squeel is probobly the belt 
slipping. I bought a new belt and made sure it was adjusted correctly.

Bill


	Will do...The whirlpool person over the phone said he thought
mine was direct drive and had no belt. Haven't looked yet,,,for cost
sake I hope you're right...


	thanks

	leo

	We had the same problem and also thought it was the belt. I checked the
belt but it seem to be OK. I readjusted it anyway but it didn't help. So I 
looked around some more what I found (only because it was made of clear 
material) was that there was a sock stuck in the water pump. After opening it
and taking the sock out I had to go to a auto store and buy some gasket
material cause no one sold a gasket for the pump. Its been working great now
for three years with no problems. 

  JR (who coming out with the M.S.F (missing sock finder) soon)

	We had the same problem and also thought it was the belt. I checked the
belt but it seem to be OK. I readjusted it anyway but it didn't help. So I 
looked around some more what I found (only because it was made of clear 
material) was that there was a sock stuck in the water pump. After opening it
and taking the sock out I had to go to a auto store and buy some gasket
material cause no one sold a gasket for the pump. Its been working great now
for three years with no problems. 

  JR (who coming out with the M.S.F (missing sock finder) soon)

*******************************************************************************

	Took off the hoses at each end and found nothing...should I be looking
deeper? Do I have to open the pump (plastic as it is)? I tried to repair from 
underneath as I have had no luck getting the shell off the machine. 

	leo

	As I said I could see into the pump. I don't recommend opening the
pump just to look in side.  I suggest

 1. UNPLUG the machine.

 2. Disconnect the hoses from the water pump and move them out of the way of
      any they may hit.

 3. plug the machine in and go right to the spin cycle (don't let it fill up).
      UNPLUG the machine. If the problem goes away (the pump is spinning and the
      squealing noise stopped). Then go to step 4 if not go to step 5. You could
      combine some. ex. Check the output hose of the pump for any blockage. If 
      it's good, connected back up to the output and check it for air coming out
      when you turn the machine on. But remember if there no air you'll want to
      see the pump is spinning.

 4. With the hoses off the water pump,try to move air through the hoses (blowing
      through them should be OK). Replace the bad hose.

 5. Disengage the water pump from its drive mechanism (you don't tell us if
      it was belt or direct drive so you make the call if it's too complicated).
    Gently spin the water pump and check for freedom of movement,binding
      ect. (if it moves freely put your palm over the opening and spin it. you
      should feel a small positive or negative pressure)
    Put you finger into the pumps opening and feel for a blockage as you
      slowly spin the pump (watch your finger). you should be able to feel the
      fins in the pump and the space between the fins.

 6. If all seem to be OK then check the timer. Is it running a full spin cycle
      or is it getting up to speed and shut off? Check inside the shell but out
      of drum for anything that may be preventing it from getting up to speed 
      for a good spin cycle.

JR

    I have a Kenmore 7 year old washer. The dial that moves from cycle to
    cycle seems to have some kind of loose connection or something. It
    moves when it wants to so half the time I have to move the dial myself
    to get it through cycles. If it stops and I touch the dial and wiggle
    it a bit it will start going again. Anyone know what this problem could
    be and how easy/hard to repair?  
    
    Thanks....

    
    Yeah.. the timer is going... last time I checked the timer itself was
    about $50 - $75, then you'd have to install it or have it installed.
    
    Keith
    

    Update on .88
    
    	Well I took the control panel apart and took a look at how the
    	timer works.  It pretty much works like a music box.  Anyway I
    	think I found the main problem.  The contact which controls the
    	water pump has a poor connection.  That is when ever this
    	connection is supposed to be closed, there is a slight sparking
    	which occurs which coincides with the random pumping of water.
    
    	I tried to sand this particular connection, I though maybe there
    	was some oxidation occuring.  However the problem persists.  Is
    	there a better way to handle this problem?
    
    	-Chris
    
    One of the contacts seems to 
    	arc in conjunction with water being pumped out.  This 

    Arcing is not unusual (when it makes contact), but not after.
    It was a good Idea to clean the contacts to bad it didn't work.
    What usually happends is either what drives (cam) the contact or the
    contact itself is worn away. Sometimes you can bend "this-or-that"
    such that the contact will have more pressure.
    Sometimes you can rob peter to pay paul. Sometimes contacts are
    double sided and only one side is used and you can flip them over.
    Or once I stole a contact from a "cycle or feature" we did not use
    to get the main one working again. Actually the feature that we didn't
    care about ended up working because it drew less current.
    
    If you've gotten this far your probably well qualified to change the
    timer yourself and save considerable $$$.
    

    I'll try some of the fixes you suggested, since a new timer will
    cost $76 from sears.  Is there any place that sells used parts?  Maybe
    there is a cheaper alternative if the fix don't work.
    
    -Chris

Why not try a few appliance parts places?  When GE wanted over $50 for a
stove control, I called around and found a "universal" control for about
half the price.  Both the original and the replacement were made by
Robertshaw, so it wasn't a question of "you get what you pay for."

    
    They don't stock the little parts because the labor would be to
    high to have a tech. replace them. These small parts are not really
    designed to be replaced either. But you can get them out, sometimes.
    

    I fixed the switch by bending the contacts closer together.  So far
    I've run several loads and there has been no problems.  Thanks.
    
    -Chris

    				Gas Dryer Hookup
    
    	I am in the process of purchasing a washer and dryer.  At one
    place, they'll delver it, for a charge and install the washer, not the
    dryer.  Another place will deliver them no charge, install the washer 
    and have their person install the dryer for $80, or I can get someone
    myself to install the dryer.
    
    Who would I call to do this?  Is it usually $80 for this kind of
    insallation?  Is installing a washe a difficult job?
    
    
    Thank you in advance,
    Tracy
    

    Installing a washing machine is simple - no need to pay someone to do
    it.  All you have to do is get it into position, connect the hoses to
    the faucets and connect the drain hose to the drain pipe - no sweat. 
    If your basement floor is like mine, you will need to fool with the
    levelers on the bottom of the washer's legs, too, to get it basically
    flat (helps if you own a level), but don't worry, it will run fine even
    if it isn't completely level - if it "walks" a little with an
    unbalanced load, it probably won't end up being level anymore anyhow. 
    The hardest part of the whole thing is moving the washer around - those
    counterweights are HEAVY - my washer has a big cement weight bolted to
    the bottom of it.
    
    I don't know where you live, but in Massachusetts, you technically are
    doing something illegal if you do your own plumbing, even if it is real
    simple, such as turning off a gas shutoff valve, unscrewing the
    flexible (if you are lucky, though they don't use these anymore!) pipe
    from the old dryer, hauling away the old dryer, moving the new one in,
    connecting the fitting, and turning the gas back on (assuming it is
    pilotless, like mine).  Don't tell anyone in authority, but I will
    admit to doing my own plumbing, but I don't mess with gas fittings
    (water is just messy; gas can explode) and I hired someone to do this
    job despite its simplicity so I could get the official permit for it. 
    Don't recall what I paid, but it was many years ago anyhow.  Any
    plumbing outfit can do gas fittings.  Moving a dryer around is no
    problem - since they rotate  on a horizontal axis instead of vertically
    like most washers, there is no heavy counterweight, and the thing
    doesn't weight much more than, say, a dishwasher.   My plumber makes
    more than I do, so it wouldn't surprise me if it cost $80 to do this
    15-minute job (with an hour minimum labor charge plus an hour minimum
    transportation time charge), but check with one before you pay the
    appliance dealer to do it.
    
    You do want to pay the new washer/dryer place to haul off the old ones,
    if there are old appliances you are replacing - getting rid of them
    otherwise is hard, and you usually have to pay a rather hefty fee. 
    Plus, they won't fit in most normal vehicles, so you also have to pay
    someone to haul them, as well as to dispose of them.
    
    
    /Charlotte

    Based on the tone of .0, it's sounds like your not a DIY with regard
    to this subject. You can't get much of anything done by a professional
    licensed plumber for less than $80.00. Legally they have to have a
    licensed plumber. If it's someone like sears they will subcontract a
    local guy. And I'll assure you someone like sears will not rip you off
    but it may be no bargain either.
    
    If it's just a (flex line) hook up and you want to illegally save money
    have a handy friend help you. Don't use an old existing flex line if
    you go this route.
    
    If it's a plumbed in hook up (no flex line) $80.00 is probably very
    reasonable.
    
    If it includes putting the hookup in (plum from gas suply to dryer
    location) it's a steel and probably not reality.
    
    Some states, some towns, some people will not allow/use flex lines.
    A flex line is sorta like using a good garden house instead of copper
    pipe to hook up a sink.

Gee, and I thought the $53/hr my plumbers charged was expensive!  $80!!!!
I'd suggest calling around and getting other bids, the actual work is minor -
just attaching a flexible pipe to the dryer and the gas cock (assuming there
IS a gas cock, otherwise one needs to be installed.)  Then the vent hose
gets hooked to the vent hood and the dryer is plugged in.  However, the
gas line needs to be hooked properly, using the correct kind of pipe dope
where needed, and it needs to be tested for leaks. 

I did my own, but I'm aware of what the risks are (and I'm in NH).  I wouldn't
advise someone unsure of themselves to try it.

				Steve

Speaking of gas plumbing, do you need an in-line pressure regulator when hooking
up a gas stove?  The one I have has some sort of in-line component between the
gas shutoff and stove.  (I'm not talking about a union)

				Steve

I've done some gas plumbing too.  If it means running any black iron pipe, 
$80 is really cheap.

One other comment.  When you insert the waste hose from the washer into the
house waste system, it doesn't hurt to tie it there.  Washer pumps can really
move water.  It can be quite amusing if the washer waste hose hops out of the
waste pipe and a washer full of water winds up on the floor.

Stan

    RE. >> do you need an in-line pressure regulator when hooking up a gas
    stove?
    
    In Mass. you do.  I bought a used gas stove when I moved into my
    apartment 10 years ago and was told by both the gas company and the
    plumber that I needed to have the regulator added.  The plumber had one
    with him so I was all set.
    
    Marie

    I ran my own feed to the heater in my greenhouse the job was not tough
    with the proper tools (pipe threader,cutter not your EMT/Cu variety).
    The bigest thing is to be 100% sure there are no leaks you don't want
    to come home some night turn on the light and get blasted into orbit.
    
    -j
    

    Yes, you generally need a pressure regulator with a gas stove.  The
    cooktop I had installed required its use.  The idea is not to allow
    the flame to jet much further than it is designed to.
    
    				Steve

    Oh boy! Did you guys get me in trouble!!!
     
    Just a bit of dirt to be sanded off the switch contacts. Ya right!
     
    This probably belongs in a more humorous notes, but what the heck.
    It all started a while back when I noticed my clothes weren't getting
    quite as clean and sometimes a random spot would be created *doing*
    a wash. Then I noticed that it took a long time for the washer to start
    after the water filled the machine. Well this weekend I became a house-
    husband whilst the wife took a much deserved 3 day ski vacation with
    friends. Being a good doobee, I decided to do a load a laundry and find
    out why the washer was taking so long to start in the process. So I
    stood in the cellar watching the washer fill, do nothing, spin, rinse,
    and spin again while my kids were upstairs practising their fighting
    skills and generally tearing the house apart. So after reading this
    notes file I decided to do a frontal lobotomy on the control panel and
    timer mechanism. So I intuitivly started taking the thing apart, only
    to find a mass of wires with long thin metal strips that go into the
    timer body. As I was yanking out the wires and metal strips I heard
    something rattling. AHA!, I said, that must be the broken part. So 
    when I had all the wires/strips disconnected I shook a little metal
    gismo out and heard more lose pieces. After several reiterations of
    shaking/finding metals bits all was quiet. Then it dawned on me that I
    was in trouble. I examined the inside of the timer and discover that
    all it had was a motor and a plastic disk with zillions of little
    bumps on it. Then I looked at the schematic and determined that the
    thin long metal strips were actually contact switches mentioned in
    earlier replies. Sure enough, the contacts on switch #1 were toast!
    Further analysis of the schematic showed that the little metal bits,
    with the random bevels described them as cam followers. Why didn't
    you guys tell me about these little buggers, held in place only by
    *gravity* ???? The schematic only describes the order that these bits
    go back in. It doesn't show wether the bevels go up/down/backwards/
    forwards etc.. It took my best verbal skills to convince my wife
    that (A) the washer hasn't been working right for weeks, (B) I'd
    gone to superhuman levels to fix it (C) she wouldn't be able to do
    any laundry till the factory authorized repair crew comes with new
    parts. PHEWWW!!!
     
    The telephone conversation, this morning, with the repair service was
    a strange mixture of laughter and consternation with a warning quote
    by the repair service that "Those cam followers are hard to put back
    in correctly". My humble reply was "Yeah, I know!". He offered to
    sell me a switch, to which I said "NO, you bring the switch to me
    and make sure that the repair person knows how to install cam followers
    too". So, by Wednesday afternoon I'll know if the washer is fixed or
    if I'll have a 12 year old Hot Point washer for sale cheap!!!
     
    I've learned my lesson. I'm going to stick to the easy stuff like
    carpentry, plumbing, plastering, air-shredders, and neuro-surgery!
    

      If you do your own hookup and
      If it fails and
      If  it  can  be  shown  that the failure is the result of your not
      doing it properly
      Then the $80 will look _REAL_ cheap!
      
      Seriously: The consequences of a poor job hooking up gas pipes can
      be disastrous.  It could result in lots of  damage  and  liability
      claims  against you.  If the hookup was done illegally -- i.e. not
      by a licensed plumber -- your insurance may not cover you.
      
      If  you  are  less  than totally confident in your ability, hire a
      professional.

    Hooking up a gas dryer is a simple task.  Just purchase the correct
    materials, shut off the gas, run the pipes, turn on the gas and you are
    done.
    
    However.......It helps to know what materials you need; lots of pieces
    of different length black pipe, reducers, shutoffs, pressure
    regulators, "krinkle pipe", goop, etc. It helps to know how to do the
    job correctly and safely; also helps to know how to test your work.
    
    Long ago, when I had materials, time, etc; I did not hesitate to do the
    job myself.  Now, I pay the relatively small $$$ for labor (need to buy
    the materials anyway) and the job gets done without me running around
    looking for parts I forgot to get before I started.
    
    I recently paid a plumbing contractor to come in and hook up a new gas
    dryer that replaced an electric dryer.  A couple of hours later and he
    was done; I spent the time logged on.  Seemed like the ~$75 for labor
    was a good deal.
    
    Dave{
    

    
    I'm little bit confused and some timers are built different from
    others. But I believe the "FRU" (Field Replacable Unit) will be the
    WHOLE timer (cam,metal strips etc). That is, they will throw away
    everything from the knob up to the wires. Service repairman rarely
    "fix" timers. They just replace the whole thing. So all you did was
    attempt to fix (read disassemble) something that will be thrown away
    anyway. I'm surprised you were able to "pull out metal strips" so easy.
    

    .9 is absolutly right. .10 is right but must realize there are people
    that are just not handy with a wrench. I know I've been on both sides
    (.9 and .10). But .10 is taking it a little to lightly which prompted
    this reply. There are also many people that are handy, and confident,
    but are NOT careful. Nobody should talk someone into something like
    this. Unless someone (already commited) is asking specifically for (how
    to) help or technical details.
    
    Adding to .9, you should also consider that you are liable even after
    you've move out of the home 20 years later.
    
    Also consider, if you did talk someone into doing such a task and you
    didn't realize that they are very careless. And blew the house of the
    foundation while the family was in it.
    
    I'm sure we are on borderline corp. policy here also.
    
    By the way .10, I'm just as guilty.
    
    P.S. The base note was only asking about price !!!!
    

I reread the base note.  It asked whether $80 was a lot of money to hook
up a gas dryer.  The answers ranged from "yes, my plumber charges $X/hour"
to "no, he's got to do such-and-such" to "why don't you do it yourself?"

The real answer is "it depends."  If there's already a gas dryer hookup,
$80 is high -- it's probably no more than a half hour's work, and *expensive*
plumbers charge $50-$60 an hour.  If there's any pipe to be run, it's cheap.

I agree that suggesting DIY gas plumbing to someone who simply asks about
plumbers' prices is bordering on the irresponsible.

    
    RE .-1 That's about the 3rd time that's been said too :-)
    

It looks like we'll be replacing our electric dryer soon and I was wondering
if the motor would be useful for other things?  The heating coils are getting
old, but the motor is fine.

What would be the typical hp rating for such a motor?
(I have a small lathe in the garage that could use a motor)

Will it run on 110v (I'm assuming the 220 is needed for the heating coils)?

Any other useful parts I could scavange before tossing the dryer?

Dave

    
    
    
    Why not just replace the heat coils..... I had to do this once on a
    kenmore and it was quite easy and around $40 bucks...
    
    Ben,
    

after talking this over with a friend, I think that is what I will do.
Much cheaper and for the price difference, I can buy a *LOT* of motors for
the garage....

Dave

    
    I have an OLD Maytag.   Tried doing some wash tonight and noticed that
    during the wash, the inner 'rotor' was spinning ever sooooo slooowly.
    There was a little bit of a funny smell... burningish.
    
    Anyway, does this sound like the motor burning out or possibly just the
    belts being too loose and need to be adjusted?  I checked the belts but
    have never repaired a washing machine before so I'm not sure what the
    tension is suppose to be.  An earlier note referred to adjusting the
    belts 'properly'.... What is 'properly'?
    
    The belts seem very loose, but even if tightened, the motor is on a
    spring like device that allows the belt to be loose or tight.... Are
    they all built like this?
    
    thanks for the advice.
    
    regds.	
    	-John

    Probably worn belts.  New ones don't cost all that much; give it
    a try.
    It could also be worn pulleys.  If the pulleys are worn too much,
    they'll no longer grip the sides of the belt the way they're supposed
    to.

    Just replaced the drive belt on our Kenmore. Same symptoms, slow turn,
    then ours stopped and geve off a burning rubber smell, tar like. Went
    under the machine and grabbed the belt, it broke apart in my hand. I
    got a replacement at Sears ($6.00) and it came with instructions right
    on the bag. Not the most fun project ever, but covered pretty well on
    the bag, and everything is OK now.

    Called a couple appliance places and the maytag belts are standard. 
    Two belts... the guy rattled off the part numbers right off the bat.
    
    However, they're each $15(another store is 12.65).  Wondering if a car
    fan belt would work???  May be MUCH cheaper??? Is it worth trying?
    
    thanks
    		-John

    I'd get the right belts.  Worth trying if you want to though, I guess.
    Shouldn't hurt anything.  Before just going out and buying a car
    fanbelt though, if you're in/near Worcester, go to Hudson Belt Co.  
    They will be able to match the old belt, probably exactly, and it 
    will probably be cheaper.

    RE: Belts
    
     Is it true that the newer models have direct drive, thus requiring
    no belts ?
                                                             -Jeff
    

    Well, I went out and purchased the two new maytag belts and put them
    on(all of 30 seconds)....
    
    NO good.  Still the same problem.  Just happen to have a spare washer
    and will take apart the Maytag as a 'when I get the time' project.
    
    -J.

    
    	Any chance you can remove the inner rotor on this Maytag?  Maybe
    	something has wrapped itself around the shaft and is both slowing
    	the rotor motion and causing the burning smell (something like that
    	string used in the waist of track pants for instance...).  
    
    	Just a month-late WAG...
    
    		-Ian

    Thanks Ian,... yes, that's actually what I'm hoping. I'll open it when 
    I have nothing better to do  OR our backup machine dies.  Haven't even 
    tried yet.
    
    regards,
    		-John
          

    Re: removing the agitator on a Maytag.  Our washing machine died a
    few days ago (after 21 years!) so I've been dissecting the old one
    to see how it is put together.  After considerable effort, I've 
    concluded that the agitator on this particular Maytag was pressed
    onto a splined shaft.  To get it off, I think one would have to use
    some sort of special puller, because I sure can't get it off by
    hand.  I have hacksawed off all except a small remaining hub of the
    agitator (try using a hacksaw inside the tub of a washing machine
    sometime!) and I still can't get what is left to come off.  I guess
    I will have to chisel it, or something.  

    
    
    Steve,
    I think they do come off.  The old catch is you have to take
    them off once and a while or they'll freeze like yours 
    did after 21 years....
    
    JD

    To remove a stuck agitator:
    
    Take a bicycle tire tube (deflated), slightly smaller than the outside
    diameter of the bottom of the agitator, and work it under the agitator. 
    Inflate it.  Agitator pops up.
    
    I should confess that I've never personally tried this, but have heard
    that it works, and it does sound like a good idea.
    
    /Don

	Hi,

        My parents just gave me a used washing machine (GE), approximately
	10 years old.  History: never a problem, never anything replaced
	or fixed on it; used 6 months of the year, sits unused during the
	winter months for the past 5 years.

	Well, I now have it and it leaks from the bottom, maybe 1 or 2 
	pints of water.  It also makes alot of noise (whirring) during
	the spin cycle and perhaps during the agitation cycle.  

	My husband and I know absolutely nothing about washing machines
	but would like to determine what the actual problem is before
	getting someone to fix it.  If it is an easy fix, we may even
	do it ourselves.

	Question is: What should we look at to determine the source of
	the problems?  Where would we get GE parts if we decide to fix
	it ourselves?

	Thanks,

	Karen

    Most likely you have a leak in the hoses - are you sure the water is
    coming from under, rather than behind, the tub?  You can order GE parts
    easily - the brochure on the washer should have the parts line phone
    number in it.  I have ordered replacement intake hoses a couple of
    times and replacement mini-tubs (for washing delicate stuff, usually
    sweaters) a couple of times - they UPS them to you and charge your
    credit card, very simple.  I also found that one of the local appliance
    stores carries some of the parts and was able to get a replacement
    drain hose from them.  If I remember, I'll look up the parts phone
    number for you.  I did NOT try to replace the motor when it died myself
    - the washer is extremely heavy thanks to the big counter-weight
    mounted on the bottom of it, and I have a bad back; I paid the local
    appliance store to replace it with a refurbed motor (more than three
    years ago now), which including labor was the same price as if I had
    ordered a new motor from GE and done the work myself.  The washer is 14
    years old.  Works great.
    
    /Charlotte
                                                               

re: .99,.100

        Well, we determined the source of the leak.  There is a seal at
	the top of the pump that is leaking... probably needs to be
	replaced and I have no idea how to do this.  

	As far as the churning noise goes, it happens throughout the
	cycle getting louder at certain times.  The strange thing is,
	the noise stops almost completely when the washer is in a full
	spin!

	We have a repair person scheduled to come in.  He is charging
	us $36.95 for the first 15 minutes and $12 for each successive
	15 minutes.  Any idea how long this should take him?  I don't
	want him to be taken advantage of.

	Karen                                                               

    He'll replace the whole pump.  That's something you could probably
    do.
    

    Karen,
    
    If the serviceman is Franks Appliance in Milford, he will change the
    pump. Our pump leaked for about a year in the cellar, Frank finally
    talked us into a new one. Found several socks in the old one before
    he carted it away. :-) He charges to cart it away, the same price the
    town charges to pick it up. What a racket.

	  I talked more with Franks Appliance in Milford and from the
	  description I gave, they think that the clutch is going as
	  well.  Estimated cost of repairs is over $200 if indeed the
	  clutch and pump are both in need of repair.  At that rate,
	  we might as well get a new washing machine.

	  Do any of you live in or near Milford and know something
	  about washing machines?  I would like to just verify that
	  the pump and clutch are the actual problem before replacing
	  it and Frank charges $36.  We are going to have a hard
	  enough time coming up with the money to replace the washer
	  as it is!  If you know about washing machines and would like
	  to help me out, please let me know!  

	  Karen

    I've just finished dismantling our 21-year-old Maytag washing machine
    that finally gave up.  I am *impressed* by the quality of construction
    in a Maytag washing machine!  All the bearings were still in good
    shape; the gears in the transmission showed no wear; all the controls
    still worked.  
    
    The machine finally gave up because for some reason (which I really 
    wasn't able to identify dispite total disassembly) "the works" became 
    so hard to turn the motor couldn't hack it and kept stalling out.  
    I think that water may have worked its way down through the seals 
    and caused enough rust to make the shafts bind, although there was 
    not much evidence of that.  Or, the gear oil in the transmission may 
    have coagulated so much that it got too thick for the motor to turn 
    the gears thorough it.  The stuff was *really* gooey.
    
    Whatever the cause for the stalling out, the washing machine was
    otherwise basically about as good as it was when it was first built.
    Maytag builds a *good* washing machine!
    
    (My opinion, anyway, based on a sample of 1, having compared it to
    no other brands....)

            -< Unsolicited testimonial for Maytag washing machines >-

>    I've just finished dismantling our 21-year-old Maytag washing machine
>    that finally gave up.  I am *impressed* by the quality of construction
>    in a Maytag washing machine! 
>    Maytag builds a *good* washing machine!
    
    Well, My 23 yr old Maytag washer and dryer are til going strong as 
well......it doesn't sound like you got a fluke, Steve!

    Vic H

I took my parents old Maytag washing machine with me after I left college.  It
brought up a family of five kids from diapers through graduation gowns before I
took it.  I don't know if the cross-country move hurt it, or just sitting a year
or two before I started using it, but it had the same sluggishness as in .-2 and
I decommissioned it after using it for a year (it would go if I would be around
to give it a helping hand to start turning on a couple of the cycles).  Again,
can't really complain for the amount of use it got.

Needless to say, we bought a Maytag when we got married and bought a house.

								-- Chuck Newman

    Can anybody suggest what precautions need to be taken in order to
    prepare a washing machine and dryer (electric) for moving.  Are there
    moving parts (wash tub, tumbler drum) that should be shimmed to lock
    them into place to prevent movement during transport
    
    Thanks for any suggestions,
    
    Jonathan

My washer came with a ring to hold the tub from moving.  How far is your move?
I've moved washers cross town in a pickup several times with no ill effort with-
out any chocking.  If it is cross country, why not check with an appliance 
store?  I bet when they do an installation all that packing goes to a landfill
and they might help you out by saving it for you.

-Bob

	I am having a problem with my washing machine that is 
resulting in blue-streaking stains on clothes.  I have run the 
machine several times with hot water to try to "rinse" the 
problem out, but it still seems to happen.

	Any insights/hints?

Thanks
Jon

You're not by any chance washing new blue jeans with the clothes that are
getting the blue streaks?

    Powdered bleach?
    
    Edd

    I stopped using WISK because of this and have never seen it again.

Got Kids ?

FIrst thing that comes to mind, is maybe a bluie crayon ?
(or blue anything which will run).

Second run the washing machine on a small load with nothing in it 
(after checking the washing tub for obvious deposits like a blue crayon.)


If it still some up with some blue spots ... 
like my wash machine runs water continually through the filter whole 
washing to take out lint and stuff (blue carbon paper from credit cards
in pocket?) ..

then the <whatever> may be stuck in the water pump path ?? 

/Bob

    
    Anyone want some free spare parts for a Sears 70 Heavy Duty Plus?
                     ~~~~
    
    I have the complete control panel (water level, programmer)
           motor
    	   inlet valve
    
    
    Send mail
    
    Colin
    
    

    Anybody ever experienced this?
    
    Washing machine seems to be O.K. but it tears little holes in the
    clothes. Looked for sharp edges but could not find any.
    Could it be the speed is too high???
    

    
    Could be too much bleach...
    
    JP

    I had a similar problem once with a brand new washing machine.  turned
    out to be sharp edges on the plastic agitator, but you could not
    see them until you removed the agitator and turned it upside down.
    i guess there was just enough room for some items of clothing to
    work their way underneath enough to get damaged.

CU did a report on washing machines recently, and noted that a common
agitator design has little slots near the bottom that can catch clothes.
It's a pity, because it is by far the most effective at getting the 
clothes to circulate.  That shouldn't cause little holes, but it could 
tear off buttons and the like.  Unless, of course, there are sharp
edges hidden under there, like .78 found.

	Larry

    	I've owned a Frigidaire cone agitator (pulses rather than
    oscillates) washer for 14 years and recently replaced the main bearings
    and seals to hopefully get another few years out of it....
    
    	Local parts dealers always say "nobody works on those" when I order
    parts, "they're a pain to fix". Well, if there are any DIY diehards out
    there who need help with one of these machines, send mail or call. I
    have part numbers and a lot of experience with leak repairs. Why do I 
    bother with a 14 year old washer? Well, it has the biggest tub I've 
    ever seen (holds lots of fabric) and the $80 in parts vs a new
    non-matching-the-dryer washer for $300-400+.
    
    Phil

    A similar situation to some of the previous replies.  New washer
    isn't pumping out all of the final rinse water.  Because of the
    height of the drain/stand pipe, had to add about a foot of hose
    to the waste hose.  Probably stands about 6 feet off of the ground.
    Because our septic tank is well below the floor level, I don't
    have a problem with backing up water, etc.  Right now the
    drain stand pipe is about 2.5 feet high.  In experimenting with
    the drain pipe, if I drop the drain hose from the washer about
    6 inches, more water drains from the hose.  So, my basic
    question is - is there some sort of "minimum" height for
    the drain stand pipe to be?  Will going down to a 2 foot
    stand pipe be a problem?  Alternative is to cut the stand pipe
    out of the existing system and replace it lower in the main
    waste pipe - but am looking for a simple fix first.
    
    thanks,
    andy
    

    The instructions for my Sears washer says: "2 inch minimum standpipe,
    34 inch minimum height, 72 inch maximum from floor.  What's happening
    to you is that the column of water in the drain hose is draining back
    into the washer when the pump shuts off.
    
    			Steve

    reply .27 and.....
    
    One way of relieving the symptom is to come off the main pipe and drop
    a pipe down and then back up as in a trap.  The water will stay in the
    trap instead of running back in the washer.  However, since the water
    WILL remain in the trap, you run the risk of "standing water odors". 
    That can be resolved by sealing with tape the gap where the washer hose
    goes into the pipe.
    
    It worked for me, at least.
    
    Dave
    

    Ok - so far it makes sense.  Would an anti-siphon valve be the
    right solution here?  This extra spinout activity is getting to
    be a pain...
    
    thanks!
    andy
    

You don't need an anti-siphon valve - the air gap between the drain hose and the
standpipe is supposed to serve to break a siphon.  I would be wary of having
too short a standpipe or excessive obstruction (you do need at least one
trap), as this can cause the water to back up.  (When I bought my house,
the previous owner had run 1-inch rubber hose about 50 feet for the washer
drain, hard-clamped to the washer's drain hose.  It worked, I suppose, but
probably didn't do wonders for the washer pump, besides being unsafe.)

If you have a minimum of 34 inches from the top of the standpipe to the
trap, you should be fine.

			Steve

  When I had a similar problem, I just put my washer up on a row of concrete 
blocks.  Where the washer was in the cellar it really didn't matter.  If you
need something more asthetically pleasing, a small platform could be built
for the same purpose.

Al

    Well, I got fed up with the backwash of rinse water into the
    washer.  My advantage is that the waste vent pipe (which
    is where the washer drain was originally) goes all the way
    to the floor next to the washer (albeit at a 45 degree angle).
    I went to Home Depot and picked up the proper PVC piping to
    tap into  a lower point in the vent pipe and create another
    drain for the washer.  After about 30 minutes of DYI plumbing
    last night the results were dramatic!  On a heavy load of towels,
    the load has never been spun out with such force and ended up
    being almost dry on its own before putting into the dryer.
    Apparently the washer was never able to get all the water out, and
    that small amount in the bottom of the tub was preventing a full-
    throttle spinout and was the majority of the problem.  It ended
    up that the top of the stack was dropped by about a foot overall,
    which made all of the difference.
    
    andy
    
    ps - This is the first time I've ever worked with PVC,and found it
    very easy to do.  ONly gotcha - that adhesive dries in a hurry.
    When I tapped into the 45 degree vent pipe (2 inch variety), I
    put the "T" in so the outlet section was not quite horizontal.
    By the time I figured it out the pipes were set forever.  I assembled
    the whole unit and ended up with a pipe at about 80 degrees instead
    of the 90 degree straight-up I'd have liked.  It's hidden behind
    the 4" waste pipe for the main septic, so you can't see it, but
    if it bugs me enough I may redo everything.  But for now, it works
    and doesn't leak.......
    

    Way to go Andy.....
    
    Now, if you were in Mass. you would have to have had Plumber do the job.
    
    
    TMW

Andy,
	If there is no standing water in the pipe there is a real easy fix.
Get a heat gun and heat the PVC and it will bend very nicely.  If all you're
looking for is to bend it 10 degrees, that'll be easy.  

	I've played with bending PVC and have found I could do it with a 
propane torch and even if you scorch it, there's no harm done.  I successfully
recovered fittings from used runs of PVC by softening the pipe feeding into the
fitting and removing it with pliers and a knife.  

	I learned the trick from my brother who regularly installs 10' runs of
PVC 4" vent in 8' walls without cutting and couplings by softening the middle,
bending it into a "V", inserting both ends and then straightening out the pipe.
That bending trick can be a real saver on the more expensive fittings if
you've got to move the run just a little bit to avoid an obstruction. 

-Bob

    
    I have a problem with a shutoff valve for my washer hookup. It's called
    a "Watts" valve. It shuts off both the hot and cold with the lever.
    anyway, it's leaking from the lever. I was wondering if I need to hire
    a plumber to fix it or if it's simple enough for me to attempt myself.
    It looks like it might just come off by loosening the two screws in front of
    the valve. Is this correct? I figure that the leak is probably coming
    from a worn seal of some kind. Are there repair kits available? Or
    should I replace the whole thing?
    
    Steve B.

    Yeah, if you take out the obvious screws it comes apart, and there
    are standard-looking washers and stuff inside.  Shouldn't be a
    problem.  Worth a try, anyway.  Take it apart and see what it
    looks like.  

    RE: .0
    
    If by screws you are talking about the two on the front, they are used
    to mount the unit, not take it apart.
    
    I'd buy a new one.....
    Marc H.

      If  yours  is like ours there is a large slotted screw head on one
      side.  (I forget which  one.)   I've  managed  to  stop  leaks  by
      tightening  that  screw.   I think that is how you disassemble the
      valve to replace washers.
      
      If  you  want  loosen  or  to remove that screw, FIRST turn of the
      water and release the pressure in the pipes by  opening  a  nearby
      faucet.  (Alternatively, wear a wet suite.  ;-))

    
    Thanks -.1
    
    At least I now know that I don't have to sweat a new one into place. I
    can handle unscrew old, screw in new. I've never sweated pipes (or
    anything else for that matter). And yes, I will remember to turn the
    water off before I begin disassembling the thing :-).
    
    Steve B.

    
    re .3
    
    Mine has two large slotted screws, one on each side. 
    
    I messed up my last reply it should be thanks to .2.
    
    
    Steve B.

    
    I went to Somerville Lumber last night and bought a new one. Went home,
    shut off the water (this took the longest), unscrewed the old, screwed
    in the new one, DONE!!! Works like a charm. I wish I knew from the
    beginning it would be that easy!! Thanks for all the free advice!!
    
    Steve B. 

    re: .27
    
    Just to close the loop on all of this drainpipe stuff, in 
    .27 Steve said his Sears washer manual said "2 inch min standpipe,
    34 inch min height, 72 inch max height".  At first glance, this
    could be construed as 34 inches from the water trap.  However,
    what it really means is 34 inches from the floor - because that's
    the height of the washer itself (appx), and the top of the standpipe
    needs to be at least that high to prevent natural siphoning.
    I kind of thought that a 34 inch standpipe on top of the trap was
    a bit tall, and the manual for our Norge washer cleared this
    up with a nifty picture.  However, in no source does it talk about
    how tall the standpipe needs to be in reference to the trap to
    prevent backflush during the pumping out of a washer.  Our existing
    standpipe was 18 inches above the trap, and I copied this when I
    re-plumbed the new drain - and it works just fine.  I never could find
    an accurate rule of thumb on this one - it was just kind of using
    the brail method.....
    
    Just thought I'd close the loop - the new drain is working well after
    2 weeks, and I haven't had a single load of clothes with water
    remaining at the bottom of the tub - a miracle!!!!
    
    andy
    

    More problems w/ the washing machine....
    
    I have an OLD Kenmore and it doesn't seem to want to turn off the water
    when it gets to the correct water level.  Actually, it doesn't turn off
    at all; even w/ it NOT in the WASH part of the cycle.
    
    I have yet to really take it apart... just wondering if anyone had any
    suggestions as to what this could be?
    
    thank you
    
    	John

RE: <<< Note 965.81 by LANDO::OBRIEN "Give it a TRI" >>>
    
 Probably a bad water shut off solenoid. They do wear out and are low dollar 
to replace. There are 2 in the mixing manifold, one for the hot water and one 
for the cold.
 
 You might be able to get away with taking it apart and cleaning it but if 
you are going to go through all of that anyhow and it still don't work, 
another 3 or 4 bucks for a new solenoid in the beginning is worth it.

    
    Two possibilities are:
    
    	o  the solenoid in the inlet valve is burned out or jammed
           open with mineral deposits.
    
    	o  the float (or alternative) in the water level switch is stuck,
           or the plastic feed pipe is gummed up.
    
    You have to take the front off the machine to access both parts, but
    they are easy to clean or replace.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin

    Thanks Colin & Corky(?)

    Just went to Sears Parts and purchased the inlet valve/mixing unit(the
    two solenoids are part of the unit).

    As for the water level switch... Is that part of this unit?  ie/
    does this device regulate how much water should go into the tank and
    then turn off?  Or is there actually a 'float', like in a humidifier,
    that turns off the machine?

    Your help is GREATLY appreciated!

    regds,
    	John
    

    
    It depends on the model. On a model with a single water level, it's
    usually a separate part - just a float that closes a switch when the
    water reaches a preset level.  It's electrically interconnected with the
    programmer/timer and the inlet valve solenoid.
     
    A model with multiple water levels also has a pipe that runs to the
    water level switch - it looks like a vacuum switch.   The switch/float
    will be located near the top of the tank and a clear plastic pipe feeds
    it from the bottom.  The whole thing is usually joined together with
    hose clips if you need to dismantle and flush it.
    
    C.
    

    The other day my washer started leaving puddles.  (fwi: it is a lady
    kenmore, maybe 3-4 years old.)  I traced the problem to the automatic
    fabric softener dispenser.  There was a build-up of fabric softener
    such that the holes that should have dripped the softener into the
    washer were plugged up.  I scrapped them out, and now it is fine.  I
    just wondered if anyone else has seen this?  I used my fingernails and
    a safety pin to clean the holes - is there any solvent that might have
    been faster and easier, and still be kind to the plastic?  It was also
    in a very tight spot that was hard to see and hard to get my hand into. 
    Is there a way to get the top of the machine off without specialized
    tools?

    Thanks
    Debby

>    a safety pin to clean the holes - is there any solvent that might have
>    been faster and easier, and still be kind to the plastic?  

	    I'd try rinsing the container/dispensor with some hot (almost 
	boiling) water.

					Tim

    I am trying to find the problem with my washing machine.  It leaks
    water. I know it is not coming from the drain or the hot and cold
    water feed lines, and last night I experimented further.  I put in 
    one hand washed article and just put it into the spin cycle for a 
    few minutes.  At this point all the water that was in the jersey
    ended up on the floor under the machine.  Any ideas where it could be 
    coming from.  I have spent numerous nights watching this stupid thing and it always
    seems that the water appears on the floor when I am not looking.
    Any input is appreciated.
    
    

most washing machines have a panel on the back that can be removed.  Pull the
machine away from the wall as far as the drain hose will allow, get behind the
machine or strategically place a mirror so you can see under the machine, using
a flashlight to watch what's happening, go through the cycle again.  You'll
probably see the leak from 

       a: a split hose
       b: a bad fitting where a hose connects to the pump 
       c: the soleniod where the water is gated into the machine
       d: the pump itself
       e: some other place that I can't think of right now

If you use a small amount of water, you could drain the hose into a large 
bucket.

If you want to "divide and conquer" to figure out if the leak is supply side
or drain side, dump some water into the tub and advance the dial (with the
supply hoses turned off) until the water starts to drain/pump out.  If you get
water on the floor it's a drain problem, if not then look closer at the
solenoid, & supply lines....

Good luck,

Al

Just had a similar problem with my 8 year old white-westinghouse.  As .1
suggests, take the back panel off and start the sucker up.  Watch very closly
as the machine reaches each stage - for me I could turn the dial and move the
machine through each stage without waiting.

My machine was leaking from the seals on the pump.  The replacment parts are on
order.

bjm

    If you've got a Maytag, the front panel comes off.  There are two
    screws down at the bottom.  

And if you've got a Sears (or Whirlpool), the whole shell removes after undoing
clamps under the control panel.  You probably have either a leaky pump or
hose connection to the pump.

				Steve

    I just had a White-Westinghouse Washer repaired. It was leaking only
    when it started agitating. The seal on the main shaft going to the
    transmission was bad. The part was around $40. The washer was 5.5 years
    old.
    
    Scott
    

    We have an ancient Kenmore washer which has developed a problem.
    
    When it begins to aggitate or spin it goes for about 10 seconds or so
    and stops.  After several seconds, it comes back on-line for a few
    seconds and repeats its failure.
    
    I've noticed that after it quits, if I turn off the power, I can hear a
    quiet "click" in the region of the motor which seems to be responsible for 
    bringing the motor back on line.
    
    Is the motor likely to be equipped with something to cut off the motor
    in the event of overheating or somesuch?  Is such a switch likely to go
    bad?  Where would I find it (in the motor housing, perhaps?)?
    
    Sears wants about $85 for a new motor, so I'd like to see if there is
    anything else I can do rather than replacing the motor (if it requires
    a new motor, I'll probably see about buying another used machine rather
    than repairing this ancient machine).
    
    -- Russ

    
    
    I just talked to my dad while your note was on the screen and mentioned
    your problem.  He is retired from Sears and was an appliance repairman.
    He said the clicking is the thermocouple on the motor and that the motor
    keeps overheating.  He also said the motor was probably junk.  Diamond
    Head used appliances in Worcester may be able to supply you with a used
    one.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    /andy

    re: .87
    
    Thanks for the diagnosis (and thanks to your father, too)!
    
    I may have to look elsewhere for the motor, though, as Worcester is a
    bit of a long ride from Maryland!  8^)
    
    -- Russ

    
      I have a maytag that's been doing this for 5 years, though it is not
    so bad, it only does it in the hot weather. I rigged a 4" equipment fan
    to blow directly on it while it was running and it has stopped the
    problem.  In any case, its definitely the motor.
    
    				Kenny

    well, when our Maytag started doing that, replacing the motor helped
    but... it may be a sign that the bearings are wearing out and the
    motor is overheating due to the friction load.
    
    We played around with new belts and a warmup cycle (run the washer
    on spin or with a small load of just water) to keep using it until
    it was eventually scrapped.
    
    Dave.

    re: .90
    Yep, same thing happend to us on a 20-year-old Maytag.  We finally
    gave up on it and bought a new one.  I dissected the old one to see 
    if I could find out what was wrong.  After totally disassembly, I
    was *impressed* by Maytag quality; nothing was worn, or loose or
    showed any sign of wear at all.  I think the problem was that the
    gear oil in the gearbox finally oxidized to the point that it turned
    into about 6,000-weight gear oil, with the approximate consistency
    of soft road tar, and the motor just couldn't move the gears 
    through it.  There is, unfortunately, no way to change the gear oil
    short of taking the whole thing apart - at least, none that I could
    figure out - and parts were so frozen together I couldn't take it
    apart without destroying some of the pieces.  
    
    I think in 20 years, when/if our new Maytag shows the same symptoms,
    I might be inclined to try drilling and tapping the bottom of the
    gearbox for a drain plug, although that would be pretty difficult
    to arrange too...one would have to turn the whole machine upside
    down so the gear oil wouldn't run out when you drilled through. You
    would not want any of it to get on anything.  The gooiness of the 
    old gear oil was absolutely incredible.  Now that I think about it...
    I'll just throw it away and buy a new one.  It won't be worth the
    hassle.

    re: .90
    
    w.r.t. my problem -- the washer experiences this symptom even with NO
    LOAD in the drum; no water or clothes.
    
    The drum seems to rotate well during the few seconds that it actually
    operates.  Then, the motor cuts off.  The load doesn't seem to change
    the symptom in any noticeable way.
    
    -- Russ

     Could also be that the overload switch in the motor is on the fritz.
    
    The thing to do is measure the motor current with an ampmeter while its
    running. If the amperage is normal (not more than the amperage number
    on the manufacturers tag) its a good indication that the overload
    device is defective. If the amperage is high could be any of the things
    mentioned previously and  the motor itself has had it.
    
    If you need more detail on how to do this type of measurement send some
    mail and I'll elaborate.
    
    
    Paul

    Well, I found a place that sells reconditioned washers etc. (Peace &
    Plenty in Frederick MD) which would sell me a used motor for my ancient
    Kenmore ($30 + tax; not bad!).
    
    It started running like a top, but then shorted out (popped the circuit
    breaker).  The problem?  There is water leaking from the area of the
    tub bottom onto the motor, etc.
    
    After checking the hoses and finding nothing, I have come to the
    conclusion that the leak either comes from some unseen crack in the tub
    or that the seal around the agitator (assuming that there is such a
    seal) might be giving way.
    
    Naturally, I would like to remove the agitator and the inner tub to
    inspect the outer tub wall for problems.  But... how do I remove the
    agitator?  It doesn't seem to want to budge!  And I can't seem to find
    any "release" mechanism for the beast.
    
    Anyone have any insight into this (keeping in mind that this machine
    may be 30 years old; no one knows for sure)?  Another note mentioned
    using an inner tube to lift it on some other machine.  Is this viable 
    here?
    
    Thanks.
    
    -- Russ

    
    I had to remove the agitator from a very old washer some time ago. 
    Although it looked like one piece, it turned out that the very top
    was a sort of cap that hid large nut that held the assembly down. 
    Once the nut mwas removed, I was able to pull the agitator by looping
    a strap under the base and applying a LOT of force (after being there
    for 25 years or so, it did NOT want to budge). Perhaps yours is similar. 
    
    								    -Mac

    Well, the saga takes yet another left turn...
    
    In addition to the apparent leak, I began to notice that the new(er)
    motor began to exhibit the *exact same problem* as it's predecessor:
    the motor runs for a few seconds and then stops with (apparently) the
    overheat sensor clicking it back on again after a short nap.
    
    Based on this, I have to guess that perhaps something is amiss in the
    voltages going into the motor.  I don't know what else to think right
    now.
    
    So, in desparation, I tore open our newer, but non-functional, Lady
    Kenmore compact washer (about 75% the drum size and it has wheels; we
    bought it when we lived in a shoe box of a townhouse).  Lots of fun
    opening up this beast -- you have to unhook everything from the cabinet
    walls and then completely remove the housing by lifting it up and over
    the drum.
    
    Low and behold, the new(er) motor bought for the ancient Kenmore
    matched the specs of the dead motor in the Lady Kenmore.  After
    replacing the motor and reassembling the cabinet, the Lady Kenmore
    began working again.
    
    So, thankfully, we have a working washer machine -- even if it wasn't
    the one I had hoped to get working.
    
    But...  (you knew there had to be a "but..."  8^)
    
    The Lady Kenmore constantly drains while agitating.  It has to refill
    itself a dozen or so times to wash a single load of clothes.  It sounds
    like the drain mechanism might need to be replaced.  Does this sound
    correct?  It both drains into the sink and recycles the water
    simultaneously, so it seems it has forgotten how to close the drain
    valve.
    
    I want to try to get this right, as it is a _lot_ of work to get into
    the case to do anything to it.  Is there any other part I should check
    before trying to replace the drain valve?
    
    Any suggestions appreciated.
    
    -- Russ
    
    ps/ re: .95 Thanks for the hint, but I can't find any hidden nut on
    		the ancient Kenmore.

    Two dead (or one dead and one ill) washing machine and one at least
    over 25 years old! I realise this is not in the spirit of the
    notesfile, but perhaps a new washing machine might be in order here - I
    mean, a thousand bucks for a washing machine divided by 20 years is
    only 50 bucks a year?
    
    regards,
    Michael Watts.

    RE:.97

    >      a thousand bucks for a washing machine divided by 20 years is
    >only 50 bucks a year?

    	I'm glad I don't buy my appliances where your get yours.

    Joe

He's in Australia.

    
    He could be anywhere - only in the US do you have such low prices
    for consumer durables. A sight more durable too  :)
    
    Colin

    re: .97
    
    I understand your comment, but trying to support a family of four on a
    single salary in the greater Washington DC area hasn't left us room
    for large ticket items.  Either I fix the small washer (and perhaps try
    to sell/trade it for a larger model; it was more expensive than most
    full size washers when it was new), or I try to scrape together
    enough for a used/rebuilt machine.
    
    -- Russ

    
    
    .....Hummmmmm, back to the stone or washboard in the sink trick:)
    
    

The power of HOMEWORK notes proves itself once again...

With a broken belt on a Kenmore washer, this note has proved to be
quite useful in its repair. I'll now return the favor with a few additional
tidbits that might help others (that I have not previously seen before).
And, I'll even throw in one question that arose I do not have an answer to.

The question: while the washer was on its front, and the transmission
pulled away from the drum perhaps an inch or so, a handful of teaspoonfulls
of oil dripped out. What is the impact of this?

notes from the repair:

o I took things apart before buying the new belt, and thus before reading
  the directions that comes with the new belt that tells you to not
  pull the transmission too far [limits turning the attach bolts to 7
  turns]. As a result, some 5/16" ball bearing dropped out. Which I lost
  [temporarily]. Replacing it with a 7/32" bearing (largest I had), put it
  back together, and then the washer would not spin up to speed. Take it
  apart again, found the ball bearing, figured out how/where to put it
  [indent in the shaft, rotate a nearby plastic bushing till the corresponding
  indent lines up with the bearing].

o Check the electrical connections prior to putting all back together. In my
  trials and tribulations, I must have jarred loose a solenoid connection; 
  once I reconnected it, everything works great!

o Directions warns not to disconnect hoses, since they tend to leak afterwords.
  Well, before I had directions, I disconnected the pump hose. I replaced
  the chincy grip-operated hose clamp with a decent screw-operated hose clamp
  to ward off potential leaks.

    Discovered last night our washing machine drain isn't handling the
    water flow.  It just barely overflows, and I think its been going on
    for a long time, pooling under the kitchen cabinet.  (We're on a slab, 
    so there wasn't any telltale drip into the cellar...) 
      
    The drain is under the countertop next to the washer: ~2.5 ft open pipe 
    leading straight down to a trap & a couple elbows to the Y-pipe (at the 
    wall).  The washer hose is inserted into the open pipe.  Typical setup, 
    I reckon.
    
    With many tools, liquid wrench, swearing, & sweat, I got the trap plug 
    off.  Looks clear up to the elbows leading to the Y-pipe.  I could snake 
    it, but the best way to ensure its clear is to take it all apart & ream 
    out or replace the "bad" fittings.  Problem is, the straight pipe must 
    be removed before I can rotate the elbows & trap, and the straight pipe 
    won't budge.
    
    My wife won't let be blast, so I'd have to cut the straight section off 
    short & then remove the trap & elbows, and clean/replace as neccessary.  
    But I'm not sure that'll buy me much, as I still think its a capacity issue.
    
    What I'm thinking of doing is to buy a plastic reducer fitting to join
    (seal) the washer waste hose to the straight pipe, but I am concerned
    about the additional pressurized flow into the main drain as it joins
    it near the toilet drain.  Logically, the larger waste pipe would take
    the minimal extra flow, and not affect the toilet or back up into the 
    tub, but Murphy's Law sometimes prevails.
    
    So I'm looking for a sanity check/alternate suggestions. 
    
    Your thoughts?
    
    							Don
                                                           

    	Has this ever worked right or did it just start acting up ? I just
    happened to be reading something about this last night and from what I
    remember, it said that was the symptom of a drain that had an improper
    drop. 
    
    	The ideal drop in a drain is supposed to be a 1/4" per foot. That's
    why I asked if this ever worked right. The picture I saw in the book
    of this looked (crudely) something like this:
    
    
    
    			|   |<-Drop->|
    			|    ________
    			|   |
     			 \_/
    	
    			  ^
    			  |
    			 Trap
    
    
    	Hope this helps.....Ray

I definitely agree with .1.  If the waste water is backing up then it is usually
indicative of an incorrectly sloped drain system.  I will, however go way.....
out on a limb and say that it must have worked at one time (?????) when
it was initially desinged and built.  

If that assumption is correct, I would definitely snake the drain before I started
pulling things apart.  A washing machine may thro out a lot of lint and 
all around goop that can easily accumulate at the joints in the waste pipe.
You may be looking for a clog when only a restriction exists.  This would
also cause your problem.

As for increased pressure at the larger waste pipe I wouldn't worry about
it.  There is no significant pressure generated in a waste/sewer system.

good luck,
Wayne

     ________________
    | washer hose       Crudely done, but it should give you the idea.
                        Now that you mention it, it did work when first
    |                   used, but last year I replaced a bad solenoid 
    | verticle pipe     valve--this may have increased the flow past  
    |                   critical.
    |
    |   elbow                And as you can see, there's just the three 
    |     __   elbow         elbows between the trap & the "Y" pipe, and I 
    |    /  \__              can see part way up the first elbow.  So I guess 
    \___/      \|"Y" pipe    I'll do both: snake the elbows & hard plumb it,
         elbow  |            and hope that'll be the end of it.
    trap
                             Thanks for your inputs.
    
    								Don

              
    RE:  hard plumbing the outlet
    
    If the problem *is* that the outlet is filling too fast, don't you risk
    siphoning back some of the wastewater?  
    
    The gap at the top of an outlet is also intended to break vacuum and
    prevent siphoning.
    
    Colin
    

    	I went back and re-read the section of the book I was reading the
    other day. The reason behind the proper drain angle is as quoted -
    
    	"Too little fall will cause water and solids to drain sluggishly
    and may cause the line to clog. Too much fall, particularly on long
    runs, will cause the water to outrun the solids, which may also cause
    the line to clog."
    
    	This could be the case if you are/have been getting lint built up
    in the drain line due to an improper drain angle. The other reason I 
    asked if this has ever worked is in relation to the vent line. Here is 
    another quote from the book I was reading -
    
    	"Without properly vented drain lines, stools won't flush properly,
    sink and lavatory drains choke and high-volume appliance drains may
    overflow."
    
    	In the book they show a 1.5" vent line for the washer. The vent is
    likely enclosed in the wall where you can't see it easily. If you open up
    the wall for any reason, you will want to check this. Maybe you have a
    1" vent and it isn't quite sufficient. Hopefully that is not the case.
    
    	BTW - The book that I quoted from is the Popular Mechanics Home
    How-To book. I signed it out of the Kelly Library in Salem where they
    have at least two of them. It really does a pretty good job about covering 
    a lot of diffent areas. At $29.95, I may buy one just to have handy if I 
    come across one.
    
    	Hope this helps......Ray

    Re: .5
    
    A steep drain line shouldn't cause a problem. Newton's laws still hold.
    Plus, most homes "stack" is a straight vertical drop.
    
    Marc H.

Good advice - I hadn't thought of checking the vent pipe size - I just assumed 
it would be correct.  I don't think I fully understood the 'hard plumb' line 
that you used.  If you mean that you are going to seal the air gap between the 
washer outlet and the drain - I dont think its such a good idea.  It is there
to keep the washer from pressurizing the waste system and aslo from burning 
out the waster water pump in the washer.

Wayne

ps - if it worked once, chances are it was designed correctly.  I don't
see how a faulty solenoid would cause restricted flow rates other than 
when it failed.

    Re: .7
    
    Sealing the waste line is also a violation of many state building
    codes, and a violation of common sense.
    
    Marc H.

    When we bought our house, the previous owner had used a sealed
    connection from the washer drain hose to a 1" rubber hose that
    ran some 30-40 feet until it connected (again, sealed) to the
    waste pipe.  It was clear from the start that this was unacceptable,
    not only is it a health risk, but it puts incredible strain on the
    washer pump.
    
    My first attempt to resolve this was to attach a standpipe to the
    hose, but it would always overflow, the reason being that the hose
    was too small to allow free flow of water over that distance.  I
    replaced the hose with standard 1-1/2" PVC drain pipe, added a
    "Pro-Vent" to aid in venting, and it has worked fine ever since.
    
    				Steve

We're dealing with this problem too, and I'm pretty sure it's due to inadequate
venting (older two-family house, only one vent stack for _all_ plumbing, ours 
and the tenant's)

Steve, you said you delt with your problem by going to PVC and by 

>> add[ing] a "Pro-Vent" to aid in venting

Wassa "Pro-Vent"?  Is it some neat inline trick that means I don't have to 
poke new pipes through my roof?

S.

    Re: .10
    
    Yes, sort of.  A Pro-Vent is a gizmo with a one-way air valve.  If
    a sufficient suction is applied, it allows air in and then seals
    to prevent water/gases from escaping.  Some local codes don't permit
    their use, or restrict them, though I think for a washer drain line
    it would be ok.
    
    You typically install a Pro-Vent in a tee attached to the drain
    line; ideally there will be vertical run of pipe from the tee to
    the Pro-Vent; I have about 6 inches for mine.
    
    The Pro-Vents cost about $5 or $6 and can be bought at most
    plumbing supply stores.
    
    If you have a long run, you may want more than one Pro-Vent.
    
    				Steve

    
        I had a similar problem a while back, the washer never overflowed
      and then it started to slow just enough to overflow a bit.  I went
      and got a pipe extension figuring it only needed about another 2",
      but then discovered the washer drain hose had gotten a slight bend
      in it.  I straightened the hose so there were no kinks or bends in
      it and haven't had a problem since.  Just thought I'd mention it.
    
               Mark

    I live in Merrimack, NH and I just called my gas company (EnergyNorth) 
    about whether I could install my new gas dryer myself.
    
    They said yes, I could do it myself, and then they'd be happy to come 
    out and do a free safety check.  
    
    
    -- Jeff

    
    -1
    
    Did they happen to mention whether they'd include a CO and CO2 sniff
    in that check? 
    
    Colin
    

    
    	I have scanned all the replies in this note, but didn't
    see my exact problem addressed.
    
    	The washing machine fills with water and starts to wash.  After
    a few minutes, two or three gallons drain (like it would do if it
    were done the cycle), then continues to wash, then drain, wash, drain.
    Until the washer stops because the water level is too low.
    
    	Any idea what I (my husband) should be looking at.  The machine
    is a Kenmore and only about six years old.  My son goes away to
    school, so there isn't alot of laundry done per week.  And I really
    don't want to call Sears, if it is something we can fix.
    
    	Thanks, Linda
    

    
    Sounds like something is telling it to drain because the
    wash cycle is done, but isnt...   If you ad water with say a 
    bucket, would it finish its wash cycle and drain all the way or
    or would it try to wash again???  Might be just a relay going
    sour...
    
    JD

      Try to watch/listen to what is going on. Is it actually draining at
    times when it should be draining? Watch it fill, I bet it fills very
    slowly. Try checking the dirt screens in the water inlet lines. They
    *should* be right where the lines attach to the back of the washer, but
    they could also be at the house end. If they're blocked, the washer may
    fill too slowly and the timer may time out and start going before
    enough water is in. I always thought the timers waited for the tub to
    fill, but maybe not or maybe that part of your machine is not working
    now.
    
    				Kenny

    
    RE:  Last two.
    
    	The washer fills just fine, only takes two or three minutes.
    
    	What happens is that it is washing, then drains a couple of
    gallons on water (if I do a re-set, no additional water goes in
    tub).   It starts to wash again, then drain.
    
    	Its very frustrating when the washer stops due to lack of
    water in the tub.
    
    	I will listen to the machine when I do the next load.  Any
    particular noise I should listen for?
    
    	Thanks for your help, Linda
    

    Then my take on it is that the drain valve is not closing all the way.
    Its probably broken or at least jammed. But either way, if its the
    valve, it will need replacing.
    
      The problem is that it is very hard to diagnose long distance, but
    I'm trying. Hope it helps you somehow.
    
    				Kenny

    I'd like to tap into the collective knowledge.
    
    Our Washer, an 18 year old  Kenmore Heavy Duty Model 70, is experiencing
    problems. It drains but wouldn't spin.  We had a Sears Service man in
    today.  He wiggled the basket around and got it to drain & spin, but,
    though the machine is operative now, his diagnosis is that the "drive
    basket" is very likely gone.  Cost to repair is $62 parts and $54 labor.
    I've not yet proceeded with the repair.  I'm not very inclined to sink
    almost $120 into a machine this age.
    
    Does anyone know what the drive basket is?
    
    Do the described symptoms mesh with the diagnosis?
    
    Thx for any info you can provide.
    
    Jim

    If it is anything like the problem I had it is an easy fix.
    Not sure what the part is called because I just played around 
    watching the mechanics of the machine when it went through the
    different cycles.  The part I replaced had to solonoids on it that
    engaged or disengaged the drum for both spin and agitation.
    
    Did the repair person show you the part??  There is a sears parts store
    in Northboro Ma on otis st.  They are usually helpful and can bring
    up the parts on the screen.   I think I only paid $25 or so for the
    part.  I am sure the repair person tacks on a premium...

    
    
    
    
    	Re: -.1	
    	
    	I wasn't home at the time the repaiman was there, so I didn't get
    	any info directly from him.  My info was via my wife who is not
    	mechanically inclined in the least.
    
    	It's now going on 3 weeks with no further problems with the
    	machine.  I'm following the age old adage, "If it ain't broke,
    	don't fix it".
    
    	Thx for the info though.

    I had a similar problem.  Found that a rivet that rides under the drum
    and connects the solenoid on a armature was busted.  Replaced it with a
    cotter-pin.  I'd do what .-1 did.  First take a look now, while it
    works and see what happens when the spin cycle starts.  Next time it
    happens take a look underneath and see what doesn't happen.
    
    MikeB.

>    Our Washer, an 18 year old  Kenmore Heavy Duty Model 70, is experiencing
>    problems. It drained but wouldn't spin.  We had a Sears Service man in

	    I wonder if your machine has/had the same problem as ours.  It
	would spin a lot of the time but not all the time.  I found out that
	spinning the agitator 1/4 turn would be enough to make it work, but
	I wanted a permanent fix.
	    This weekend, I took the motor assembly out of the bottom of 
	the machine (I think it's a Sears or Kenmore Capris).  No belts, so
	I guess that makes it a direct drive.  I took the cover off of the
	gear box.  Not recommended; it was full of gear oil, gears and lots
	of other moving parts.  Everything looked fine.  I resealed the
	cover and put the gearbox back together (before I lost any parts).
	    Next I took the clutch ring out of the clutch assembly.  That 
	was easy to do.  The pads looked like they were hardly worn at all
	except for some smooth spots.  I sanded the smooth spots, cleaned 
	& wiped the assembly and put the machine back together.  I think
	the clutch was slipping because the pads weren't gripping properly.
	    The first load of laundry did spin.  Hopefully all future loads
	will spin as well.  It was a pain fanagling the motor assembly out
	from the machine but once that's done, the clutch is easy to get
	to.

					Tim

	Note:  I knew that I had overloaded the machine before with a king
	size bed spread (wont do THAT again).  I could smell that burning
	clutch odor.  If this doesn't work, I'll probably replace the clutch
	ring.

    My Kenmore will fill up with water, start the wash cycle and during the
    wash cycle the water slowly drains out before it is supposed to. What
    should I lookk for?
    
    Ben

    
.114>  My Kenmore will fill up with water, start the wash cycle and during the
.114>  wash cycle the water slowly drains out before it is supposed to. What
.114>  should I lookk for?
    
    Other than a large puddle on the floor?   :-)
    
    In the pump housing, look for a flapper-type valve that directs the water
    either back into the machine (during wash) or out the discharge hose
    (during drain and spin). Also look for a connecting rod from the gear
    housing that moves the valve. I would suspect one of the following:
    
      o  a foreign object preventing the valve from seating properly in the
         "wash" position (lint, a disappearing sock, or various objects
          normally found in kids' pockets)
    
      o  a broken of cracked valve flap
    
      o  a broken or loose linkage
    

    >>   Other than a large puddle on the floor?   :-)
    
    	Actually its never had a puddle anywhere so the water must be
    leaking out the discharge hose. The washer used to sit out in the
    garage and one week it got -15 and there must have been some water that
    froze and may have caused a broken or cracked valve flap. I'll check it
    out. 
    
    Thanks for the advise.

    Another alternative is a solenoid which activates said flap.

Hi,

I am looking for some help on stain removal in clothing; I didn't see any 
notes/keywords in the directory that pertained to laundry in general. Are 
there any such notes in this conference?  If not, does anyone know if there
are other notesfiles that deal with laundry/home cleaning type issues?  Didn't
see any listed in the VTX Notes listing, but... 


Thanks!

Greg...

    Note 1111.25 lists a few entries that may be appropriate.  Also
    try ERIS::THREADS or perhaps LYCEUM::CONSUMER.
    
    				Steve

    One recommendation:  
    
    If you have high IRON content in your water, do not use bleach!!! 
    Chlorine bleach causes the iron to precipitate, and the cloting will
    come out with more stains than when it went in.  If you do have iron
    stains, there are several commercial preparations that will remove them
    from clothes.  Many are the same as for removing iron stains from
    fixtures, just used in diluted form (IRON OUT is one that comes to
    mind).

    My washer has a problem and it sound like it may be related to what has
    been discussed in this note.
    
    The water leaving my washer is plumbed as follows:
          /~~\
          |  |
          |  |
      /~\_/  |    (The sewer pipe, on the lower left, has a vertical pipe
      |      |     attached to it.  This goes about four inches and then
     ~~      |     has an S trap.  This has another foot of vertical pipe
    (  )     |     attached.  At the top, there is a rubber hose which goes
     ~~      |     down to the washer water-out connection.
             |
             \___ washer
    
    When I run it with a small or medium load, it works fine.  The problem
    occurs when for large loads.  When it tries to fill the tub with water,
    as soon as the water rises to the level of the top of the exit hose, it
    immediately starts draining out and, though the washer keeps sending
    water into the tub, it never fills any higher.
    
    Question:  is the washer plumbed correctly, but the tube just needs to
    be higher?  Or is it plumbed competely incorrectly.  Note .35 mentions
    that the standpipe must be as high as the maximum water level.  What
    exactly is a standpipe?
    
    Thanks,
    
    -Joel
    
    

>    occurs when for large loads.  When it tries to fill the tub with water,
>    as soon as the water rises to the level of the top of the exit hose, it
>    immediately starts draining out and, though the washer keeps sending

>    Question:  is the washer plumbed correctly, but the tube just needs to
>    be higher?
			Yes.

	    The water level in the hose will be the same as the water
	level in the drum.  The bend in the hose has to be higher than 
	the water. 
					Tim

    RE: .27
    
    I'm wondering if the two inch pipe refers to a special size...or if
    the standard 1 1/2 inch PVC would be just as good.
    Comments?
    
    Marc H.

    
    Just remember, the head of a washing machine pump isn't much.
    
    My sewage line is 6.5 feet above my washer and I had to get
    sink-tray system.  (Pump inside a 5 gallon bucket).
    
    This sends the washing machine water up'n out without any
    problem.  
    
    Fred

    
    	My clothes washer has problems when it gets to the spin dry cycle.
    Sometimes it spins and sometimes it does not.  My roommate says that
    she gets it to work by giving it a good push.  Would anyone happen
    to have some pointers on what I should/could check to hopefully
    fix this problem?  The clothes are loaded from the top and it is
    a Montgomery Wards model about 6 years old.
                                          
    thanks for any pointers.
    
    gary.
    

    It may be a worn/loose belt.

Note 1111.9 lists a number of notes which discuss washing machine problems.

			Steve

>    nuts.  When our washing machine begins it's spin cycle, the little
>    "doughnut" that holds fabric softener (sitting atop the agitator) is
>    supposed to spin.  The spinning is supposed to force the fabric
>    softener over the sides of teh "doughnut", out into the clothes.  So
>    far, I understand, and it works right, *most* of the time.
 
This note from a couple years back intrigued me.  Are the automatic fabric
softener dispensors all just a cup on the top of the agitator that operate on
centrifugal force (dispense when the basket is spinning fast enough)?

I was wondering because we have an older Sears Kenmore model machine and there
is a small capped [completely enclosed] cup (1 1/2" around by 2" high) on the
top of the agitator, that just appears to cover a nut to remove the agitator. 
After reading the above, I was wondering if that cup is in the place where such
a fabric softener dispensor would attach.  (I.e., Might I be able to just order
such a fabric softener dispensor cup even though the machine didn't appear to
originally come with it?)  

Can anyone with a Kenmore machine with dispensor speculate if that might be
true?  (That's one really nice feature this old machine lacks so being able to
add it easily would be great.)

							_Mike

    Mike,
    
    we've got a 2+ yr-old Kenmore washer. The dispenser is approx 5" wide,
    4 or 5" tall, and is designed to slip down over the top of the agitator
    itself by about 1-2". Removing the dispenser reveals a rather flat, thin 
    (1/4"), round (3") plastic disk that gets popped off to allow access
    to the agitator bolt. The vanes on the agitator begin just slightly
    below the lower edge of this disk.
    
    As you can see, this setup sounds a lot different that yours, so my
    guess is that your's isn't readily adaptable. However, get the model
    number and call a Sears Service/Parts store. The have most IPB's
    (Illustrated Parts Breakdowns) on line and/or on fiche, and should be
    able to give you an answer over the phone.
    
    Good luck...

    I have a similar problem with my washing machine where I am pumping
    8', and we always have a little water in the machine.  One of the 
    earlier replies stated you could drain into a sink that would then pump
    the waste up the 8'.  I would like to add a sink in the basement and
    was wondering if anyone has any information on sinks w/pumps, price etc
    and if the pumps are more robust than the washing machines?
    
    Also where can I pick up a check valve to install into my current
    system?
    
    John

    
    I've got a washer problem, whenever I do a load of whites, I get some
    small orange spots (rust color) on the clothes. I thought maybe I had
    rust in the machine (its about 12 years old). The house is brand new
    less than a year old, and this actually started happening at our
    previous house.
    
    I was told recently that this was a hard water problem,and that using a
    water conditioner in the washer would solve the problem, unfortantly it
    only made it worse. The last batch of whites was much more stained than
    any previous.
    
    Have I got a rust problem or a hard water problem? or something
    completely different? Its a Kenmore with like I said about 12 years of
    fine service, has its time finally come or am I overlooking something
    obvious.
    
    Steve T.

   No answers, but questions...
   
   Is it only whites?  If so, what's different when you run a load of
   whites?  The answers may lead you to some likely places to
   investigate..
   
   Something to consider... when you decide on a course of action -
   laundry additives, parts replacement, etc, you may want to run an
   empty load before you try another load of whites.  For example, if the
   answer is to use something to clear out some rust or mineral buildup
   inside the washer, you might want to run an empty load with the
   additive so that the cleansing can happen without having any clothes
   to mess up..
   
   Random thoughts,

   - Tom