T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
128.1 | I can't afford one | ZEPPO::SULLIVAN | Spontaneity has a time and place | Tue Nov 18 1986 15:39 | 5 |
| My brother-in-law works for Acorn. Send me mail if you want more
information.
Mark
|
128.2 | expensive, be careful! | NETCOM::HANDEL | | Wed Nov 19 1986 18:58 | 10 |
| I agree that they are great looking houses!
However, I know someone who built the "model", in NH, and it ended
up costing them over 400,000 dollars! I guess the husband did the
contracting or whatever and ended up having to redo alot of things.
Don't know the whole story, just that they took out a third mortgage
on the house and now can't afford to live there!
|
128.3 | We're having one built right now. | BANZAI::ELLIOTTE | | Thu Nov 20 1986 16:25 | 25 |
| I'm having one built (even as we speak)...a 2500 sq foot Country
Cottage. Pre-fab is not entirely correct. Things come already
cut to size, but the traditional house building must still be done.
We purchased the materials from Acorn and are having Beebe Construction
in Hollis, NH do the rest. We already had the land (Brookline,
NH). We spent a little over a year looking a plans before deciding
on Acorn. We are scheduled to move in mid-December.
We were very please with the materials, top of the line stuff.
I personally think the lady who work with me to do the kitchen
design and fill our cabinet needs is probably underpaid. She
really knew her stuff.
The strange things about Acorn was payment. We have a construction
load and Acorn would not deliver the package unless money was given
on the spot, and the bank would not give money until the package
was delivered. So we ended up having to arrange for a bank officer
to call a account officer at Acorn and everything was 'arranged'
over the phone....a little strange for someone use to traditional
bank deals and who keeps all paperwork on such things as I do.
Hope this gives a little info, give a yell if you want more, and
of course you are welcome to come see the house if you like.
Deb.
|
128.293 | Should we buy this fixer-upper? | SCFAC::CHANG | | Mon Dec 08 1986 20:13 | 63 |
|
We are going to be first time home buyers and need some input from
all your experience!!!
We just looked at a house this weekend (in Sunnyvale, California)
that will need considerable fixing up.
This is a description of the house:
About 30 to 40 years old.
Hardwood floors throughout (the carpeting has been pulled up so
it has numerous staple and nail marks).
Three bedrooms, one bath, living room, very large kitchen.
A family room has been added on (with no permits) that blocks half
of the unattached garage in the back of the house.
The water heater is in a closet outside of the house.
Subterranean termites exist under the house but the kitchen and
bathroom floors have been redone (re-floored and treated).
The unattached two car garage has major roof problems (you can see
blue sky from inside!). And the roof of the house will need to
be replaced in one to two years.
Our problem:
We will want to tear down the family room (that has no permits)
and put in it's place a much smaller utility room (with permits)
and back door.
We will want to enlarge the bathroom.
We will want to refinish the hardwood floors, insulate the whole
house (either drill and blow in insulation or take down all the
white boards (which may have lead paint anyway) and put up batting.
May have to upgrade the electrical.
Upgrade the kitchen with counters, floor, cabinets, appliances,
sink.
Re-roof both house and garage and paint.
Now the seller wants to sell by the end of the year (it was rental
property). He is asking $159,000 our realator says she wouldn't
offer more than $145,000. We have reason to believe we can get
it for $135,000 to $140,000. The other houses in the neighborhood
are selling for around $160,000 to maybe $170,000. We need to know
can we do all that work for under $25 or $30,000? Will we get the
money back upon selling in 5 to 7 years? And should first time
buyers get into this much of a fixer upper? What would YOU recommend?
I'm afraid we are being alot naive about the potential of the house
and our interest in fixing it up.
Your advice would be appreciated.
-Gina
|
128.294 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | | Tue Dec 09 1986 03:56 | 6 |
| Sounds like the property is very high there! The same house minus termite
dammage or sky lights in the garage in Colorado runs $40,000
I bought into a fixeruper that alomost got the best of me
and I dident have half of what you are looking at there.
Unless you want/can do it yourself I would say PASS.
|
128.295 | BE READY FOR THE WORST!! | DEBET::BOWEN | | Tue Dec 09 1986 11:09 | 9 |
| From the information you present I would avoid getting involved
in this piece of property. Consider the problems that you can see,
nail holes in a floor, a roof that needs repair, a floor that was
replaced and treated due to termites. Now consider the problems
you can't see; plumbing problems, major electrical problems,
major structural problems. A question to ask, if you owned a
house would you let it fall into this state of disrepair?
|
128.296 | Wow a contractors heaven | LOCH::KEVIN | Kevin O'Brien | Tue Dec 09 1986 11:32 | 8 |
| .1 and .2 seem to be giving good advice. Everytime I have opened
up something in an older house, there is always 2 or 3 other things
to do. I think that any profit you'd realize would be nil at best.
I'd keep looking for something a little less ambitious!
KO
|
128.297 | Don't bite off more than you can chew! | FDCV13::SANDSTROM | | Tue Dec 09 1986 12:31 | 27 |
|
Buying your first house is a scary experience. Unless you are
*very* handy in the DIY department or have lots of extra $$$$ for
contractors, I would definetely pass on this one. Besides, if you
have the extra money for contractors you should probably use it
to buy a different house. ;-) But if you want to do it yourself,
don't forget to check into whether or not you can do your own plumbing
and electrical work without being licensed!!
If you want to get into a house like that, be prepared for the
worst. My husband and I bought a fixer-upper but our house is
structurally very solid. Most of what we've been doing is pulling
down horsehair plaster, insulating, plastering, re-finishing hardwood
floors, new walls/ceilings, yard work, etc. We do all the work
ourselves, we haven't had to contract out anything yet. We work on
the house nearly every weekend for a year and a half (and haven't
even come close to touching the kitchen) but we enjoy it. And that's
the key - we enjoy doing the work and we've both had lots of
experience beforehand. .3 has an excellent point - when you start 1
thing, 2 or 3 other things will need to be done at the same time!
I'm not trying to discourage you, because you have to start
someplace, but if you're a novice DIY'er a less ambitious project
would be advised.
Conni
|
128.298 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Tue Dec 09 1986 12:33 | 18 |
| I'd say, if you have to ask if it's worth buying or not, DON'T.
You're describing what sound like (3,000 miles away) to be rather
major flaws. IF you felt confident of your own abilities to
evaluate the problems, IF you had done a lot of repairing/rebuilding
and felt as though you were walking into it with a good appreciation
of what was involved, then you might want to give it a try. But
it sounds as though you've not had that much experience with houses
needing a lot of work, and I'd suggest extreme caution. If you
want a place to experiment on to learn about repairing a house
it might be a great opportunity, but I'm not at all sure you want
that.
Would you break even on expenses when you sold the house? Who knows.
If you place a value on the amount of aggravation you'd go through
getting things fixed up, probably no way.
I'll have to agree with the other replies too - for every problem
you see, there are probably several you don't see.
Do they have home inspection services out in California? A 3,000-mile
analysis leaves a lot to be desired....
|
128.299 | You've probably decided by now, but | ARNOLD::WIEGMANN | | Tue Dec 09 1986 15:02 | 20 |
| As a fellow novice, I agree with all previous replies. We just
bought our first house this spring to "practice" on, and one thing
I hadn't really considered was the cost of tools. Sure, when I
had an apartment, I could pound nails enough to hang pictures with
the heel of my boot! But it seemed just when we figured the cost
of supplies, my husband (new, also!) would say, "You realize we're
gonna need a drill, tablesaw, whatever"! Along the lines of finding
2 or 3 more things that need done, you realize what things need
done *before* you get to the part you wanted to do - "Let's repaper
the kitchen" really means let's strip the old stuff, prep the walls,
figure the paper, get razor blades, plumb line, trowels, paper brush,
ladder, buckets, sponges, and since we're pulling the appliances
out anyway, why not repaint them....
Part of our problem was we got possession end of April and had to
get it presentable to have our wedding there in July - so we didn't
have much leisure time! And just last month replaced 3 floors of
carpeting - just like moving all over again!
But we'd do it all again - and probably will :-)
|
128.300 | Thank You!!! | SCFAC::CHANG | | Wed Dec 10 1986 16:29 | 14 |
|
Thanks for all your advice!! We decided not to touch that house!
Although I just loved it, it would definetly be too much work and
we have no experience. Instead we are going to find a house that
requires only minor cosmetics such as new carpet, paint, maybe re-work
the kitchen counter tops or floor, etc.
Eventually we will build enough experience to remodel an old house
or build a new one. In the mean time...... The search is still
on!
-Gina
|
128.301 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Dec 11 1986 11:31 | 9 |
| Good luck to you! .6 raises one good point about the business of
remodeling - it all gets wound up together. For example, I want
to sand the floors in the upstairs bedrooms. But the plaster in
the rooms needs to be redone (old horsehair plaster, rather the
worse for age), and there's no point in sanding the floors first
and then grind plaster dust into them. While I'm redoing the plaster
I can insulate the walls, and it would also be a good time to replace
the windows since those aren't too great either, but all I REALLY
want to do right now is sand the floors....
|
128.302 | A couple of other things to consider | SAVAGE::LOCKRIDGE | | Fri Dec 12 1986 15:41 | 14 |
| Couple of points that seems to have been missed. Besides having the money
and experience to take on a project (such as the one you are passing
on) you also have to decide if you can -
1. Live in a huge mess for a long period of time
-and-
2. Be prepaired to spend ALL of your free time working on the
house which CAN get old very quickly.
Might want consider these points too, when looking at a house.
-Bob
|
128.4 | We had one built, also. | DEBET::BRESNICK | | Thu Jan 15 1987 12:25 | 7 |
| Just had one built - don't have good feelings about Acorn's contracts.
Cost was VERY MUCH higher than estimate. Acorn has some materials
on backorder (for a year). House design is super.
Call if you would like to know more.
Jan
|
128.303 | Wary word about real estate brokers | CAM2::BLESSLEY | Life's too short for boring food | Thu Jan 15 1987 18:45 | 8 |
| I thought I read in .0 "The broker says don't bid over xxxxx". Keep in mind
that the broker ("your broker") is the sellers agent just as much as the broker
they listed the house with. Brokers are people too (sounds like a bumber
sticker, don't it?), but the law says they are NOT working for you.
-scott
|
128.304 | exit | LSMVAX::POWELL | Reed Powell - LCG Marketing - 297-4261 | Fri Jan 16 1987 13:38 | 9 |
| At least in Mass, "brokers" do not sell - they run the agency.
However, the note that all sales reps work for the seller is
technically correct, but in practice if you have an agent and the
seller has an agent, then your agent tends to be working more on
your behalf, as his/her work is not tied to that particular piece
of property (ie, your agent wants you to buy a house, preferably
expensive. The seller's agent want you to buy THAT house, preferably
expensive).
|
128.305 | | ARNOLD::WIEGMANN | | Fri Jan 16 1987 18:00 | 18 |
| This sounds familiar! Bought our first one this summer and what
I did was pick up Money magazine's special issue on Homes, Buying
and Selling, to get familiar with the basic terminology. Then,
in talking to friends, connected with someone fresh out of real
estate school (I hear those groans!) but, she was looking for
experience, we were looking for cheap, so we basically hired her
for her consulting services - to have our best interests as her
priority. I think as it turned out, we gave her $100 cash, she
gave us three evenings of her time plus took us to showings to compare
different factors. She purposely took us to houses she knoew we
would not want to buy to eliminate any bias, but so we could learn
how to look for potential problems.
As it turned out, we din't buy at the time we were looking, so when
we were ready, we were on our own, but prepared. Got a lawyer for
the closing and to write a new will, too.
I don't know if this is/was legal, but it served our purpose!
|
128.8 | EEstimating the cost of a new house | STUBBI::DA_WEIER | | Thu Jan 29 1987 01:01 | 11 |
| I am interested in the approximate cost of building a Garrison
colonial in Massachusetts, minus land and added extras.
2 by 4 framing First floor 26 by 36, Second floor 28 by 36,
14 by 22 family room over double garage. Fireplace, oil heat
fhw. Skim coat plastered walls. Any ball park figure will be
appreciated
Thank you,
|
128.9 | | ULTRA::PRIBORSKY | Tony Priborsky | Thu Jan 29 1987 11:43 | 3 |
128.10 | a builders cost | AMULET::YELINEK | | Thu Jan 29 1987 12:17 | 6 |
| I spoke to a friend of mine whos been a contractor for 22 years.
He said to figure on anywhere between $75-$85/sq. ft. of finished
area. I thought this was a tad high but from this file and others
I've spoken with, the number is in the ballpark.
Mark
|
128.11 | 75-85 is high. | VIDEO::FINGERHUT | | Thu Jan 29 1987 12:38 | 6 |
| I contracted my own house and it cost about $50/sq ft. It's fairly
high quality construction (hardwood and ceramic floors, post & beam,
Pella windows, etc.) I think 75-85 is including more than $20%
for the contractor. I think it's high. $50/sq ft. included the
cost of the land.
|
128.12 | Costing data for home building | TARKIN::HARTWELL | Dave Hartwell | Thu Jan 29 1987 14:27 | 14 |
| I built my home (almost a 100% match for what you want) approx 2
years ago. I was the contractor, did my own
painting(interior/exterior), insulation, hang doors, install all
trim, built decks and railings. It came to approx $38 /sq ft. with
my labor.
Contact me for more info if you want. I have a decalc program with
all cost data for evey major catagory.
Dave Hartwell
Jabba::hartwell
226-6396
|
128.13 | sure it's high | AMULET::YELINEK | | Thu Jan 29 1987 17:43 | 12 |
| re: .3
Who said contractors were limited to profits of $20% ? The costs
of materials certainly hasn't increased like the prices for 1-2
family dwellings. The profits have run rampant with the demand....
people get a lot more for land nowadays 'cause the demand is there.
and contractors don't have to be as careful in estimating a job
as they used to be. They pad it abit when they've got plenty to
do..and if you hire 'em ok...if not, do you think they're concerned.
But I guess thats why were involved in this notes file...
'cause we enjoy working around our homes without having to rely
on the hired hand.
|
128.14 | Construction Estimates | ERLANG::BD | Brian D. Handspicker | Thu Jan 29 1987 17:49 | 23 |
128.15 | watch out for those allowances! | EXODUS::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Thu Jan 29 1987 18:51 | 6 |
| I thinks it's easy for a builder to quote you $60 per square foot. BUT
what is he giving you for allowances for appliancers, flooring,
fixtures, etc. It would be VERY easy to blow anywhere from 10K to 20K
on just the kitchen!
-mark
|
128.16 | | BINKLY::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Fri Jan 30 1987 02:36 | 6 |
| are the per sq ft costs
per sq foot of foundation?
per sq foot of living area?
per sq foot of floor area?
or.?
thanx
|
128.17 | A slightly different view | LOCH::KEVIN | Kevin O'Brien | Fri Jan 30 1987 13:06 | 27 |
| I have a friend that just built a house very similiar to what has
been described. The actual cost per sq ft. of floor area should
be between $45 and $50. What you pay on the other hand maybe
significantly different. It really depends upon how the contractor(s)
feel. Since this is an upper middle income type home they probably
feel that your ability to pay will sustain a quote of $80 per sq.
ft. Therefore that's what you will be quoted.
When I built my home I took a slightly different approach. I estimated
that it would cost $43 per sq. ft. (resonably accurate at that time).
The land was $xxxx. Then I went to a builder with a house design,
said that I could afford so much money and do these kinds of work
myself. I expected that he would come back with a quote of up to
5% more. (the real budget) Instead he came back with the price
I gave him. He worked the rest of his profit margin off the sale
of my (then) current home with an exclusive to his realator vs the
commission on this home.
The point is that if a builder wants your business he will get
creative. If you just walk in and say build me this house, chances
are that he'll just throw in a free cross that you'll get nailed
to. If you dicker with a builder, it won't be cheap but at least
you won't have holes in your hands. It may not work, but it might
be worth a try.
KO
|
128.312 | Building in Fla. Question | CNTROL::BROSNIHAN | BRIAN | Wed Mar 04 1987 14:13 | 19 |
|
We will be building a home in Florida within the next two
months in the Deltona area. All of the builders down there
offer either cinder block or wood frame construction. All
homes are built on slabs. Here's the situation..... if I go
with c/b the house stays damper than w/f and you are limited
to the exterior design i.e....you more or less have to stick
with stucco or stucco brick. If I go with w/f, the house breaths
better and I can go with cedar, half brick and cedar vinyl or
whatever, BUT you have termites to worry about unless you spray
the foundation twice a month. If any diy'ers have lived there
or experianced a related situation, all info would be helpful.
I realize that everyone is not really crazy about Fla. but
it's a family thing, we really loved down there, and we can
just about pay cash for the house, so any comments not relating
to the questions above would probably be better left unsaid. 8^)
ADthanksVANCE..................../BB
|
128.313 | what little I know | SCOTCH::GRISE | Tony Grise | Wed Mar 04 1987 16:00 | 19 |
|
I have a cousin who built a house in Jacksonville. His house
is on a slab, the walls are 2x4 with a synthetic board type
material used as exterior sheathing. The sheathing is sided
with brick. It looks nice. the interior walls are sheetrock.
He has had no termite problems. All the windows are vinal
and the window sills are a marble looking type material.
The only exposed wood is in the roof overhang.
He has had some mildew problems with the overhang.
The house is 2 1/2 years old. I believe the construction
cost was somewhere around $30/sqft. He has a hard time
believing that contractors around here get $100/sqft.
Tony
I hope that helps
|
128.314 | At least 2 of us will be jealous | MEDUSA::KWILSON | | Thu Mar 05 1987 01:11 | 14 |
| But there are a lot of us who ARE crazy about Florida. Those
of us will remain jealous since you are getting out of New
England into an area where we would like to go. I hope the
builders there are more dependable than they are here. Did
they quote any difference per sq/ft for the type of construction?
There are quite a few more "stick built" homes down there
than there used to be so I can't imagine that the termites
will all be rushing to your new home. Saw a really neat custom
built cape style home in Vero Beach for only 299 K...but that's
another story. Best of luck...is all of Lenny's old group destined
for Florida?
Keith
|
128.315 | | CNTROL::BROSNIHAN | BRIAN | Thu Mar 05 1987 15:06 | 7 |
| Kieth,
there is no price difference between stick and block
building down there. I think I've decided on the wood
frame, I'll just spray every now and then.... about
Lenny's group.... everyone is destined for Florida, so
start packing!!!!
/BB
|
128.316 | Concrete block house construction info | OBLIO::DROBNER | | Thu Mar 05 1987 16:33 | 31 |
|
I different point of view - I has born and raised in Florida (Miami)
and had always lived in a concrete block/slab floor single story
house untill moving up here a few years ago. Boy was wood frame
two story houses a suprise!!
Concrete block house came into being after the BIG 1929 hurricane
that devastated the South Florida coastal area. Most wood frame
house that were built before the storm were no longer around after
the storm. The South Florida building code requires a tied down
roof and renforcements over all windows and doors. Typically a
concrete slab is poured and then concrete blocks (exterior walls)
are built up, with concrete poured at the corners and over all windows
and doors.
Both of my parents houses only had insulation in the roof, that is
there was no wall insulation. This is not that much of a problem
for airconditioning since the temperature differantial is not that
great between inside and outside. But during the few weeks of winter
temperatures below 45 degrees F the outside walls are extremely
cold and this makes heating very expensive. If fact one of my parents
houses had no central heat source, use to make use of portable electric
heaters in the bathrooms.
Note even with a concrete block house the roof and interior walls
are built of standard wood framing materials and you can still have
termite problems. In fact a termite inspection is considered a
requirement for the sale of houses in South Florida.
/Former Floridian - who will never return!!!! Howard
|
128.264 | Stinking House | LABC::FRIEDMAN | | Fri Aug 21 1987 17:15 | 3 |
| What is the best way to deodorize a house, for example when there
are pervasive tobacco and/or pet odors?
|
128.265 | Try this | DRUID::MEANEY | JIM | Fri Aug 21 1987 19:07 | 12 |
| A couple of suggestions:
1) Burn it down
2) Hire a professional cleaning crew to go through it from top to
bottom. Tobacco tar permeates every part of a house, even into
radio and TV switches, and it would require a very thorough top
cleaning to get rid of it and the animal dust and hair.
I prefer the 1st alternative though
JPM
|
128.266 | Time is on your side | STAR::GOLDSTEIN | Andy Goldstein, VMS Development | Sun Aug 23 1987 02:42 | 15 |
| I wouldn't paint quite such a grim picture. Our house was previously
inhabited by smokers and smelled pretty bad when we first took
posession. Fortunately it was during the summer, so we just left the
windows open until it was time to turn on the heat. The floors were
not a problem, but cleaning the walls was not in the cards because
they are all wood panel. The one major cleaning move we made was to
send the living room drapes to the cleaners (they are large custom
drapes and replacement was not in the budget). In just a few weeks
things were tolerable; by the next spring it was clean even to my
sensitive nose.
Maybe our place wasn't that bad to start with. If there's an extreme
problem, like the dog's been peeing in the back hall for the last 5
years, you may have to resort to drastic measures like completely
tearing out and replacing the finish floor or whatever.
|
128.267 | Fumigate it! | SAGE::DERAMO | | Mon Aug 24 1987 16:51 | 16 |
| Several years ago, the oil tank in my mother's basement rusted through,
and left quite a (smelly) mess. After everything was cleaned up
with detergents, etc., the smell of oil remained. The insurance
company paid to have the house "fumigated" with a deionizing mist
that was supposed to neutralize the odors. It really worked! The
same procedure is used to eliminate smoke odors from houses that
have had small fires; I would assume it works for cigarrette smoke
and pet odors.
I really don't have any more info on the process. Check in the Yellow
Pages under "Fire & Flood Restoration Services." There's quite a
few companies listed there.
Joe
|
128.268 | Clean the wood, too! | TASMAN::EKOKERNAK | | Mon Aug 24 1987 19:09 | 14 |
| re: .2
I would (no pun intended) even wash the wood paneling down. I
am cleaning a house whose first owners were smokers and has a wood
stove. You'd be amazed at how gross the wood gets (or rather, how
much better the wood looks after being cleaned)! I'm using Murphy's
Oil Soap. If you're sensitive about the water, use a wood cleaner,
but clean the wood.
It'll thank you later. It probably can't breathe from all the cig.
junk!
Elaine
|
128.269 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Mon Aug 24 1987 21:46 | 6 |
| If you are trying to rid pet odors from the carpet try oil of
bergamat(SP?) I have used it before and it really works and leaves
a nice smell.
-j
|
128.270 | | BEING::PETROVIC | If you don't do it, no one will | Tue Aug 25 1987 13:28 | 11 |
| It's been listed elsewhere in this conference, but I'll enter it again
anyway. The best product I've found so far for ridding one's home of pet
odors is 'Odor Disposer'. It's available in pet shops and works by
enzymatic action. You first clean up the area conventionally, then soak
the area with this solution. Let it dry and the odor's gone.
We had a similar problem (n cigarettes, just a dog) in our place. Try it
if all else fails.
BTW...the product works for ALL types of protein-based odors.
|
128.271 | Odors in carpet padding | POP::SUNG | In search of a personal name | Wed Aug 26 1987 16:37 | 7 |
| Alot of times pet odors are due to urination on carpets (yuck!).
It usually penetrates the padding, especially if the padding is
plain old foam rubber. In this case probably your only option
is to change the padding. The carpet can be cleaned by you or
the rug person, but the padding is hopeless.
-al
|
128.272 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Thu Aug 27 1987 00:04 | 11 |
| I suggested oil of bergamat in aan earlier notee. This oil by its
nature absorbs smell(I dont know how) and neutralizes it.
I used it to descent a basement that had been used to hose many
cats. This basement dident smell when it was dry but when humidity
when up so did smell. Since using the oil there has been no smell
at all even after a slight pipe break that made it really humid.
I have used the enzyme stuff before and it does work but not in
all cases which is where the oil shines.
-j
|
128.273 | | STAR::GOLDSTEIN | Andy Goldstein, VMS Development | Thu Aug 27 1987 04:05 | 4 |
| > I used it to descent a basement that had been used to hose many
> cats.
Uh, the MSPCA find out about the folks hosing cats?
|
128.274 | Earl Grey | VIDEO::DCL | David Larrick | Thu Aug 27 1987 13:53 | 2 |
| An almost totally unrelated fact: oil of Bergamot is what gives Earl Grey
tea its distinctive aroma and flavor.
|
128.275 | | OBSESS::COUGHLIN | | Thu Aug 27 1987 14:44 | 1 |
| Where can you buy oil of bergamat?
|
128.32 | 1785 Weatherbee House | JOKUR::MCCONNEY | | Fri Mar 18 1988 13:02 | 19 |
| I'm still trying to figure out how the topic of the Weatherbee House
situation, featured on THIS OLD HOUSE, ended up in note 1903,
"Building a Shower" but.....
I contacted TOH a couple of years ago to see if they were interested
in renovating my old house; after reading about the Weatherbee
House, I'm glad they refused. They claimed that they do not travel
over 30 miles from their broadcasting station. I understand that
they are currently in California; you figure it out!?!
Anyway, I recently heard that there was an article in the Wall Street
Journal regarding the Weatherbee House situation. Has any one seen
it? If so, please indicate the date of publication. I'm trying
to keep in touch with the outcome of this case because I find it
interesting and educational.
Thanks,
Chip
|
128.33 | Check out 1974. It is worth the trip. | HPSVAX::SHURSKY | House < $200k = Mass. Miracle | Fri Mar 18 1988 13:53 | 4 |
| You obviously haven't read note 1974. (This Old (and expensive)
House) Do, it is great! It was up to 113 replies at last check.
Lots of chuckles/note mostly at the expense of Bob, Norm and the
featured yuppies.
|
128.34 | | KLAATU::BERUBE | Claude G. Berube | Fri Mar 18 1988 14:51 | 4 |
| I beleive the article you want was in the March 4th (friday) issue of
WSJ.
Claude
|
128.35 | House burned/Recovery Story | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Mar 18 1988 15:12 | 22 |
| On January 9 my house burned out and my 86 year-old mother died
in the fire. The fire was intense, completely gutting the living
room the contents of which were shoveled on to the front lawn by
the fire department. The rest of the damage was caused by heat,
smoke and the fire department. The door from the dining room to
the kitchen was closed, but the heat was so intense things like
a blender, microwave oven and a clock melted.
Thanks to the Fire Department, the house is structurally sound and
thanks to St. Anthony I got house insurance for the first time in
November. I need new floors, ceilings and walls, new wiring and
plumbing, a new kitchen, a new first-floor half-bath and a second-floor
full bath, all new windows and exterior doors.
If no one objects I would like to chronicle my progress and problems
in this file and ask for advice and council from all you experts
as I go along.
David Fitzgerald
|
128.36 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Fri Mar 18 1988 16:45 | 3 |
| Sorry to hear about your disaster. Yes, I (for one) would certainly
be interested in your story of the reconstruction process.
Just out of curiosity, where are you located?
|
128.37 | Location & Style | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Mar 18 1988 17:37 | 10 |
| My house is in Newton Centre, one block North of route 9 and less
than a mile West of Bloomingdales, so the location is prime. It
is a side entrace Dutch colonial with three large bedrooms and one
small bedroom I have been using as an exercise room. The house
has been in my family for forty years and very little in terms of
improvements have been done to it during that time, so this will
be a wonderful opportunity to update it.
David
|
128.38 | Heh, Maybe T.V. coverage | SVCRUS::CRANE | I'd rather be on my bicycle | Fri Mar 18 1988 22:41 | 3 |
|
Just don't call Bob Villa for help. Then you'd really be in trouble.
z
|
128.39 | Windows | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Mon Mar 21 1988 12:28 | 23 |
| I did offer my house to "This Old House" but got no answer to my
letter.
I got my first check from the insurance company last week and met
with my contractor on Saturday; it was a bit overwhelming. I found
myself caught between him and my designer--between reality and my
wish list. My designer suggested all sorts of interesting windows,
including bays and rounds. The first estimate I have for windows
is $14,000 and the budget for exterior work is $9,000. So I have
eliminated all the bays. I will be able to have a new Brosco round
window in a new half bath off the kitchen and one in the front hall.
I also want mullions, top and bottom, in all windows. Mullions
is a new word for me, the criss-cross wood strips on the glass.
Now you can get them either enclosed in two panes of glass, or as
complte units which can be removed to wash the window.
My contractor says wood windows are best to save heat, but they
have to be painted. I am considering vinyl-clad wood windows.
Any advice? Brands?
David
|
128.40 | How about adding a medium? | BAKHOE::KENAH | My journey begins with my first step | Mon Mar 21 1988 16:26 | 12 |
| David:
You already plan to chronicle the rebirth in words. May I suggest
that you also trace the rise from the ashes in pictures as well?
Get a good camera and take pictures, both color and black and white.
Take lots -- trace as many steps as you can. If nothing else, you'll
have a remarkably complete story, both in words and pictures.
Good luck in your endeavors.
andrew
|
128.41 | Photos & 10%ers | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Mon Mar 21 1988 19:47 | 17 |
| Good idea, Andrew. I have pictures of the wreck, and video tapes
of the television reports of the fire. It was on all three Boston
TV channels that night at 6 and 11. It must have been a slow news
day. There must have been a dozen reporters and photographers at
the scene. My brother tried to punch one of them out. I had not
thought of photographing the rebuilding, but I will.
Another category of persons that show up at fires is the 10
percenters. They usually arrive in a Mercedes or Lincoln and try
to get you to take them on as an independent insurance adjuster.
They take 10% of whatever you get from the insurance company. They
are goulish but I understand from the Fire Chief who was very
supportive of me that day that they do earn their money. Fortunately
I didn't need to use one.
David
|
128.42 | The Contractor | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Wed Mar 23 1988 12:25 | 18 |
| One of the first things to do with a project like this is get a
contractor. I didn't know any.
#1 recommended by the city didn't call me back.
#2 recommended by a decorator gave me an estimate of $168,000.
#3 I found by asking a neighbor who had additions put on both sides
of her house last summer. I really like the additions, and she
said she was so pleased with the job, she had a party for the
contractor, the architect and their spouses when the work was done.
His estimate was half of #2 and the insurance company even cut that.
#3 is local and this is important because there is a lot of calling
back and forth. He recommends vinyl-clad wood windows from J.B.
Sash of Chelsea, formerly of Somerville and Cambridge. Any comments?
David
|
128.43 | SASH SIZES | FACVAX::SPENCER | | Thu Mar 24 1988 17:23 | 7 |
| Sorry to hear of your loss. If your rough openings for the sash
are close to standard sizes, many builder I have talked with
recommend Peachtree vinyl clads. Of course there are always the
old standards, Pella, Marvin & Anderson. If your goal is to eliminate
as much rework of the pocket size as possible then you may have
to go with customs such as J.P.
|
128.44 | J.B. Sash | 3D::BOYACK | nothin's easy | Thu Mar 24 1988 19:04 | 10 |
| For what it's worth...
My bro-in-law is a 1-man contractor when he's not working as a
facilities engineer (i.e., most of the time - he's good enough to
be picky about who he'll work for and where) and he recommends
J.B. Sash. He uses them in his own house. He and my other bro-in-law
(who has installed some Andersons in his house) don't think much of
Andersons.
Joe
|
128.45 | sash | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Mar 25 1988 15:07 | 4 |
| Thanks for the word on J B Sash. I am going to look at the windows
tomorrow morning.
David
|
128.46 | The Designer | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Mar 25 1988 15:29 | 24 |
| One of the first things I knew I wanted when I started this project
was a designer or decorator. I have some design background myself,
enought to know that I need a pro, both to see possibilites and
help me avoid mistakes. I talked to one decorator who showed up
to tour the wreck in a white coyote coat and high-heel boots. Her
price was $90 an hour. Then I realized that I have a friend who
could help me, an exhibit designer with lots of building experience.
I offered him $30 and hour and he was delighted; he would have done
it for lunches. I plan to put most of the insurance money into
the house rather than furniture anyway.
He has earned his money already by what he suggested I do with the
kitchen. I have a smallish kitchen with a breakfast nook, and nitches
for the refrigerator and stove; a convoluted tiny back hall and
a long front hall. By taking down some small walls in the back
hall and the nitches, adding a few feet from the front hall the
kitchen size increases to 203 square feet up from 120. And I still
have a portion of the breakfast nook for a 6 by 4 new half bath.
I hope this is clear enough.
He has guided me in numerous other instances and I am very pleased
so far.
David
|
128.320 | Opinions on below-ground-level homes | EAGLE1::BRUNNER | VAX Architecture | Wed Apr 06 1988 02:49 | 33 |
| Moderator:: I couldn't find a topic which really addressed this question.
If such a topic exists, please move this note as appropriate.
What are the advantages/disadvantages to homes which are mostly in the
ground -- a glorified cellar with a roof?
I am very ignorant about these things. But, I guess it would have certain
advantages assuming that it is done right:
(1) Perhaps, cheaper than building an above ground house.
(2) If properly insulated would keep heat in better during the
winter, and be cooler in the summer.
(3) Expandable to an above ground house, if the foundation is properly
laid out.
(4) Exterior of house is easy to maintain -- not much to paint either!
Of course, you would have to watch out for:
(1) Water leakage
(2) Concrete cracking
(3) Humidity
(4) Security -- windows are at ground level
(5) Must have multiple exits in case of fires and such
I think it would have to be constructed a little more carefully than a
normal basement: maybe better concrete, more care in making the concrete
floor, and much better drainage below the floor and on the sides.
Anyone out there have any insight into this?
Thanks,
- Rich
|
128.321 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Apr 06 1988 13:25 | 27 |
| Some friends of mine built one several years ago (they've since sold it
and are now living on a boat in the Carribean, but that's another
story). I visited them several times, and it was "interesting".
In general, they were happy with the place. They had one side open
(earth on 3 sides and roof), with all glass windows on the open
side. In addition, there was a glass-roofed atrium to let light
into the back rooms. There were problems. The atrium was COLD
in the winter, until they put reflective film on the ceiling windows;
nowadays I think you'd want to use low-E insulated glass for that
kind of application. The windows on the open side all had aluminum
frames, and they were COLD too. So were the windows, for that matter.
They installed floor to ceiling Levelour (sp?) aluminum blinds,
which reflected the room heat back in and made a big difference
in how the room felt. However, the window and door frames still
kept getting frost on them (on the inside).
As far as being a comfortable place to live, generally, it was.
Maintenance was indeed low. They did have one roof leak - that
kind of house needs a perfectly-done waterproofing job, as well
as good perimeter drainage, etc. Also plenty of styrofoam insulation
on the outside of the all the concrete.
It was an interesting house. Places like that do have advantages,
especially if you can get that perfect south-facing hillside lot
to put one on. I'm not sure I'd want the kind built on level ground,
with rooms surrounding a central courtyard, in this climate (New
England, or any place that got snow). If we got another blizzard
of '78 you'd be snowed in for sure. I'd think you might also have
problems with drainage of water in the courtyard.
|
128.322 | See also note 1850 | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Wed Apr 06 1988 14:52 | 0 |
128.323 | | CIMNET::NMILLER | | Wed Apr 06 1988 16:26 | 4 |
| If you believe in the radon boogeyman (I do), you'd want to design
to eliminate that worry, since you'd in effect be living in the
basement of your house.
|
128.324 | Life in the bunker | PLDVAX::TRANDOLPH | | Thu Apr 28 1988 17:00 | 3 |
| Another thing to consider - it's depressing to live below ground level unless
the layout is well thought out, with plenty of sunshine, like in one of the
previous replies (guess how I know?). -Tom R.
|
128.47 | The Insurance Adjuster | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Apr 29 1988 13:46 | 40 |
| Last November I got home insurance for the first time: $100,000
coverage for the house, $50,000 for contents and living expenses
for nine months. I had also said a prayer to St. Anthony at about
that time.
The insurance adjuster (Allstate) met me at the house at 9 am the
morning after my mother's funeral. The first thing he said to me
was, "Do you need a cash advance?" Fortunately I didn't, but the
offer was encouraging. He also suggested that I might want to get
a trailer for my yard and live there until the house is reconstructed.
I said, "No way," and headed for the Embassey Suites Hotel in Allston
right at the entrance to the Massachusetts Turnpike. The suite
was comfortable but pricey, even at the corporate rate of $105 a
day. (I learned always to ask if there is a corporate rate,
particularly if the hotel is near a Digital facility.)
The next step, according to the adjuster, was to get a contractor
and an estimate of the cost of repairing the house. A decorator
I had spoken to suggested her contractor. I met with him and he
came up with an estimate of $168,000, which the adjuster felt was
off-the-wall. I found a second contractor who was local and had
done a beautiful addition to a house near me. He came up with an
estimate of $87,000, and the adjuster even cut that to a final figure
of $83,000 for the house and $30,000 for the contents. All of this
took three months. The thinking is probably to drag out the process
until you will accept just about anything.
During this whole period I was bugged by a species I had never heard
of: the ten percenter. This is an independent insurance adjuster
who negotiates for you with the insurance company and takes 10%
of the settlement. They know what things are worth and how to deal
with the insurance company; you are a babe-in-the-woods. In retrospect
I now know that I should have gotten a 10%er. I probably would
have gotten $10,000-$15,000 more, and I am going to need every penny
to repair the house. There are details of this process that I don't
want to put in this file, but if anyone wants more information,
send me mail.
David
|
128.48 | The Fire | GEMVAX::FITZGERALD | FITZ | Fri Apr 29 1988 20:55 | 72 |
| There was heavy snow Saturday morning, January 9. I shoveled the
driveway, leaving only a couple of feet at the end for the city
to plow back in. I watched wrestling on television until noon and
then went out again to finish shoveling and do some errands.
I got back just after 1 pm, because my mother wanted lunch then.
She had fallen two days before and was afraid to walk, even tho
she used a walker. She was 86 and very frail. I had called her
doctor on Thursday to try to get her into the hospital for the weekend
but couln't get to talk with him. When I got back to the house
I parked in front and went in the back door with my German Shepherd.
The kitchen was filled with brown smoke. For an instant I thought
that I might have left something on the stove, but realized I hadn't
used the stove that morning. I tore down the hall. The living
room was totally black. I yelled. There was no sound from my mother.
I could hear flames, but I could see no light. I tried to get lights
on, but nothing happened, whether or not the lights went on, I couldn't
tell. The smoke was so bad, I ran to open the front door for air
and then back to the living room. I realized I had to get the fire
department. I screamed for the dog, but he didn't come. I yelled
again and he went by me like a bullet. I ran across the street
and got a neighbor to call the fire department. When I got back
to the house, flames were coming out the front windows. I couldn't
get back in. A neighbor yelled at me to move my car from the front
of the house so the fire truck would be able to park there. And
then I waited a very long few minutes for the sound of the fire
department.
The fire and police departments arrived in minutes and droves of
spectators descended, including neighbors, friends, media people
and insurance adjusters. Firefighters wore gasmasks to get into
the house; the knocked out every window and axed a hole in the roof
to let the gasses escape. They extinguished the fire quickly.
The fire chief who was extremely solicitous of me, came over to
me and told me that they were not able to save my mother and that
they had moved her to the kitchen. My reaction to this was surprise;
I just assumed she was gone. I asked him if the house was a total
loss, and he said, "No, the house is structurally sound." It was
the insullation in the walls of the house that my father installed
years ago had save it.
At some point I called my sister and she called my brother. They
arrived with their families and were able to get through the roadblocks
set up by the police. (The Newton police, as well as the firemen
were fantastic.) The first thing my brother did was try to punch
out a photographer. My sister was distraught with grief. The fire
chief told me I should call Allstate to get the house boarded up.
The police chief asked me if I wanted to have a guard posted for
the night and I agreed. Then my brother wanted to go home. I said
I was going to stay to the bitter end. The medical examiner arrived
and asked me questions. The hearse arrived and my mother was taken
out in a body bag; I could see the shape of her body.
The fire chief then asked me if I would come to Headquarters to
meet with the state fire marshall and give a statement which I did.
Then I went back to the house to get a few things before going to
my brother's house in Westwood. I particularly wanted the dog's
crate, because he is huge and can be difficult to manage. When
I got the crate I saw that he had soiled it. Apparently he was
so frighted when we came into the kitchen with all the smoke he
ran into his crate for safety. He probably would have stayed there
if I had not yelled for him.
I hope this was not too grizzly. I have wanted to write it down,
but have found it difficult until now at 4:50 on a Friday afternoon,
four months later. Thanks.
David
|
128.49 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Sat Apr 30 1988 11:22 | 2 |
| Thank you for sharing that story. There are things we can all learn
from it...and I think it helps to share grief, too.
|
128.50 | cause? | CHOVAX::GILSON | | Thu May 05 1988 17:27 | 2 |
| What agony this must have been for you. Have I missed the cause
of the fire in preceding replies?
|
128.325 | | SAACT3::SAKOVICH_A | Cogito ergo Zoom! | Tue May 17 1988 22:23 | 35 |
| I remember looking into Earth-bermed housing a few years ago. Got
an excellent book on the subject (if I can find it, I'll relay the
appropriate info). As far as your questions go, I'll see what I
can answer off the top of my head...
1. Cheaper? More than likely. If not immediately, then in the
long run. No painting, no roofing (unless you consider mowing your
roof a problem), lower heating/cooling costs.
2. Insulated? Not much insulation required, even in New England
(except for in the roof). Ground temperature below the frost line
(i.e., past 3' down) varies little from the mid-50's year 'round.
3. Expandable? You shouldn't have to go to an above ground house;
who'd want to live in a flimsy matchstick structure covered with
paper and cardboard when they'd be much safer (re: earthquakes,
tornadoes, hurricanes, blizzards, and such) in a strong, firmly
mounted, securely built home? If you still want to expand, then
seriously consider an above ground earth-bermed structure rather
than a below ground unit. Then all you have to do is scrape your
lawn away from the wall you want to expand towards.
4. Exterior? John Deere does roofs!
All the other "watch out" points are valid. Note that in most cases,
each room (with the exception of some states that exclude bathrooms)
must have an exit.
You don't have to be limited to concrete, either. Current wood
treatment technologies allow you to use wood walls and ceilings,
also. Foam seems to be an up and coming thing, too.
Let you know if I find my book.
Aaron
|
128.52 | Finishing a house that's half complete? | ROXXY::AKI | Kemlo | Tue May 24 1988 15:45 | 50 |
| I think this is a unique situation, so I'm posting it as a separate note.
Feel free to move it to a more appropriate place if necessary.
(Also posted in TALLIS::REAL_ESTATE)
My husband and I have recently found a house in NH that we like in a
location we love. Unfortunately, there's a catch - the house is for sale
"as is," which means:
No electric
No plumbing
No well
Approved septic plan, but only 1/2 done
No wall board, flooring, cabinets, insulation
No heating system
Foundation walls, but dirt floor (floor needs to be poured)
Basically, all that's done is the roofing, siding, windows, doors, and
framing. I've been told this is about "1/3" of the work involved in
building a house. Seems to be excellent quality; high-quality doors and
windows, solid 2x6 construction, plywood instead of particle board, etc.
No, we're not crazy. The asking price is great and, if we can just get some
estimates on the costs to finish the house (at least, to get it to a "move
in" state), we'd like to buy it.
What I need to know is:
1. Can someone recommend a good Professional Engineer?
(We'd like to be sure the existing structure is sound.)
2. Any cost estimates on what it might take to finish this house?
Cost for a well?
Cost for finishing a septic system?
Cost for FHW or FHA heating system? (Furnace or boiler cost?)
Cost for bathroom fixtures? Kitchen?
Cost for insulation? (Full fiberglass, vapor barrier)
3. How much is a house in this state of construction worth (roughly)?
I've heard the "$60-80" per square foot estimate, but I don't know how it
applies in this case. This house is about 2000 square feet.
I'd appreciate ANY help or suggestions you might offer.
Thanks!!
Kemlo Aki
381-1164
|
128.53 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Tue May 24 1988 16:03 | 12 |
|
Sounds like your starting with a weathertight shell, which is
probably more realisticly 1/4 complete. First, I'd forget about
the professional engineer and just talk to your local building
inspector to make sure that the current owner/builder did every-
thing to code. The inspector is the one who would have either
passed or failed everything done so far. He may even give you
an opinion on the quality of materials used and the building
technique. Best of all the info is free.
As far as prices, how much if anything, are you planning on
doing yourself? How many rooms? Bedrooms? Bathrooms? Lots
of variables here.
|
128.54 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue May 24 1988 16:49 | 34 |
| No well yet, huh? In New England there is *usually* no problem
hitting water, but there are definitely cases when there are.
I would strongly suggest that you ask around and see what the
wells are like in the neighborhood. If all the neighbors have
100' wells at 20 gpm, this place probably will too. If, on
the other hand, they all have 600' wells and barely get 2 gpm,
and one guy had to drill three times before he did even that
well, ...it tells you something. If there is a local well driller,
give him a call. If you tell him where the property is, he can
almost certainly give you an idea of what your chances are. And/or
make it one of the questions to the local building inspector, as
suggested in .1. Talk to the neighbors, too. Occasionally they
can be a goldmine of information. Basically, ask a lot of questions
of anybody you can find. The town clerk, if he/she's like ours,
knows everything about everything in town.
Wells are/were somewhere around $10/foot, more or less, all depending.
Then plan on about another $1000 for a pump and getting it installed.
That also depends on the well; if you're pumping from 600' you need
a much bigger pump than you do if you're pumping from 50'.
How much is the land worth? I'd figure a price of $20,000 plus
the value of the land, maybe...but since I've never seen the place,
that $20,000 may be way off.
Why is the septic system 1/2 done? What does "1/2 done" mean?
Is it 1/2 done because they ran into ledge all over the place
and it's going to cost $15,000 for somebody to come and blast it
out?
Why is the place being sold in its present state? Is there a big
GOTCHA lurking in the background someplace that the present owner
is trying to get out of? There may not be...but then again, there
may be. Ask questions!
|
128.55 | Details on work to be done/financing | ROXXY::AKI | Kemlo | Tue May 24 1988 17:11 | 34 |
| Re: .1
Good idea - we'll contact the local building inspector.
Here's some more detail for cost estimates:
There are 8 rooms: Kitchen
Dining
Living
Family
Master -----| All the bedrooms are on the
3 other bedrooms -----| 2nd floor.
Baths: 2 full, 1 half
We're completely inexperienced - never owned a home before. (Yes, we're
naive, and maybe this is crazy - but we've been looking at houses for
almost 2 years now, and this lot and house really appeal to us.)
Although we'd love the luxury of hiring a contractor and getting it all
done for us, we may not have the $$$ for doing it all at once. However, I
have done painting before, so I'm planning to do the interior, and possibly
exterior painting. We'd also like to work on the insulation and dry-walling
(but not the plastering; save that for a pro).
What we need to know is about how much it will cost to get the house into a
"move-in" state. We don't mind finishing the house slowly, leaving 3 of the
4 bedrooms unfinished, and 1 of the 3 baths unfinished for a while.
As for financing, we're hoping to put 25% down on the existing structure,
and then get a construction loan. Once the house is ready for occupancy,
we'd roll the construction loan over into a mortgage.
Keep those suggestions coming...
|
128.56 | no free lunches | NYEM1::MILBERG | Barry Milberg | Tue May 24 1988 17:17 | 15 |
| additional questions to ask:
1. why is it half finished
2. who did the work that is done and did they get paid
3. were complete plans filed and by who
4. what is in the neighborhood- is this part of a subdivision
before worrying about finishing - find out why this is 'such_a_deal'
-Barry-
|
128.57 | Get a lawyer | VIDEO::DCL | David Larrick | Tue May 24 1988 17:24 | 8 |
| Don't even think about completing this transaction without a good real
estate lawyer on your side. There are a million gotchas here, and the
lawyer's job is to identify them and protect you from them if possible.
The sooner the lawyer is involved, the better.
Since the occupancy permit is issued by the building inspector, "What will
it take to bring this house up to livable condition?" should be high on
your list of questions for that official.
|
128.58 | Explanation for the septic & seller motivation | ROXXY::AKI | Kemlo | Tue May 24 1988 17:28 | 33 |
| Re: .2
If the local inspector can't tell us about the well, we'll call the local
well driller, too. Neighbors aren't very close by, so I'm not sure how
much they can tell us, but we'll ask around.
The land is an 8 acre parcel, with beautiful mountain views to the South
and West (which explains why we love it!) Judging by land prices in the
area, it's probably worth around 60-80K (I'm guessing). I was assuming that
the building was worth 40K (assuming 60K/sf times 2000 sf, and I thought
the work was 1/3 done, but maybe 1/4 is a better estimate).
We're thinking of offering between 100K and 120K (he's asking for more, but
the cost of his construction loan is "motivating" him to sell lower). If he
won't take our offer, we'll have to walk away, but it's worth a try.
We're going to investigate further, but the current explanation for this
strange situation is that the guy started his own business selling bathroom
fixtures, etc. and decided to get out of construction. He started this as a
spec house, but didn't want to invest any more money into it (he needed as
much money as he could get to start the new business). I know it sounds
suspicious, but it might just be a good opportunity for us. If we complete
the house, I'm positive (judging by the area, size, etc.) that it will be
worth alot more.
As for the septic system, the septic design is done and approved and
the leach field has been done. It just needs a tank (or is there more
to a septic system? I've never used one before...) I'm planning to
check out this situation more thoroughly. We'll also include some
protective clauses in the P&S (we have a great lawyer).
Anything else we can do to estimate costs or avoid getting "taken"?
|
128.59 | some more thoughts | JENEVR::GRISE | Tony Grise | Tue May 24 1988 17:37 | 22 |
|
re .3
My experiance has been;
o It cost just has much to hire someone to do insulation as
it would be to DYI
o You are looking at 200 sheets of sheetrock, if you've
never done it before, it could be tough. Many tapers
do not like taping rock that has been hung by
non-professionals.
o In order to move in, you need to have 1 fully working bath.
All exterior doors hung, with stairs and railings. A door
on 1 bedroom. Working smoke detectors. No exposed bare
wires. Properly functioning ( and inspected) septic system.
Railings on stairways.
Tony
|
128.60 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue May 24 1988 19:47 | 39 |
| You've never done anything like this before.... Well....
All I can tell you, if you take this on it will be more
work and headaches than you could ever possibly imagine.
You are married, I take it; if you take this on and are
still married at the end of it, you are home free for the
rest of your life, because if a relationship can survive
living in a half-completed house while finishing it, the
relationship will survive anything.
Not to say that you shouldn't give it a try. If you do, and
succeed, the rewards (emotional and otherwise) will be
tremendous. And it IS possible; I know a couple who did
it. However, they knew a lot about what they were doing.
But the house was in worse shape to start with (it had had a fire),
so you have a slight win there.
Whatever cost figures you finally come up with, add 25% for unforseens,
because they will definitely be there.
Hanging blueboard (or sheetrock) is a colossal pain, and I'm
not sure it's worth it. A pro can come in and do the whole
house in about a week (probably). You'll be at least two months
at it. And putting that stuff on ceilings is truly an amazing
experience. Especially after you've just worked an 8-hour day
here at the Digital Salt Mines.
I would figure out costs based on hiring professionals to do
*EVERYTHING* that needs to be done to make the place livable.
Absolutely everything. I wouldn't count on doing *ANY* of the
work to make it livable. It just takes too long. If you could
take the summer off and just work on the house, that might be
one thing, but I assume the paychecks have to keep coming in while
you're doing all this. If it turns out that you can do some of
the initial work required to get you into the house, great, but
don't figure your budget that way. There will still be plenty
left to do after you move in.
I don't want to talk you out of giving it a try, if you really think
you want to do it. However, I want to be sure you realize, at least
slightly, what you're getting yourself in for.
|
128.61 | determine final cost and final value | ORS1::FOX | | Tue May 24 1988 20:14 | 10 |
| What town is this in? Granted, 8 acres is a lot, but 80K is a lot
for land in NH. (excluding your half dozen high priced towns)
You also have to figure what *his* cost for the land was. If he
built a subdivision, put a road in, etc, hit net cost for each
lot may be quite less than what you pay for a ready-to-built lot.
Given your offer of 100-120K for the house as is, (1/4 to 1/3 comp)
you're looking at 200K+ when complete. Will that be a reasonable
market value for that house completed?
John
|
128.62 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Tue May 24 1988 20:30 | 34 |
| I concur with .8 and would further add that you need to be
very realistic as to your abilities. If you are not a very handy
person around the house now, you've got some BIG surprises in
store for you. Construction is not easy and there are quite a
few "tricks of the trade" that professionals use to make a house
look good. When I was looking for a house, I saw more than one
where the realtor said, "Yes, they built it themselves" and
believe me, you could *TELL* that they did it themselves. Some
of the stuff looked horrible and certainly was nothing to brag
about. The trick is to do it yourself, but make it look like a
professional did it. You should ask yourself if you have that
capability.
Another suggestion. Check out the terms for construction
loan contracts *NOW* before you go any further. Although you
say you wouldn't mind getting the house into a "moving in"
condition, most construction loans require that the house *AND*
land be completed 100%, and only give you a limited amount of
time to finish the project, usually six months. You may be
able to get an extension, but it will probably require another
application including fees and closing costs. (This just happened
to my neighbor)
Be prepared for the burden it will place on you and your family
as stated in .8, but remember to keep thinking about the finished
project. Don't let the setbacks, either big or small, get the
best of you. Every big project like this has them, you just have
to hang tough and see them through.
Setting aside an amount for cost overuns is a GOOD idea. You
will more than likely have them. If you are lucky enough not to
use it on the house, you can use it for a vacation after the work
is done. You'll need it!
Lastly, Best of Luck.
|
128.63 | Hire Professionals | GRANMA::GHALSTEAD | | Tue May 24 1988 21:23 | 22 |
| .8 and .10 are so right.
Two years ago I decided to be the General Contractor for my new
house. I hired professionals to complete it to a stage where it
would pass final inspection so I could move in. I would then finish
it. Just managing the subs was a full time job. I moved in 6 months
later and now 18 months later the house is still only 80% complete.
It takes me 10 times longer than professionals to complete different
jobs. You also tend to mess up the house (sawdust, plaster dust,
scratched walls and floors) as you work. After a lot of jobs are
completed you often say well I would do it different next time and
I could have done a better job, etc., etc. If you talk to homeowners
that move into completed new homes they keep plenty busy just
maintaining/decorating.
I enjoyed being the General Contractor and I was fairly lucky in
that I had minimal problems with them. BUT if I ever do it again
I would DEFINATELY have the house completely finished by professionals
before moving in.
|
128.64 | get prices | GRANMA::GHALSTEAD | | Tue May 24 1988 21:29 | 5 |
| If you have the time I am sure in this Notes file you could find
the names of Subs and get estimates required to finish the house.
You could then get a General Contractor to give you a price on taking
this job. You would at leasthave an idea of what kind of costs you
would be facing.
|
128.65 | Correction - it's 3000 sf!! | ROXXY::AKI | Kemlo | Wed May 25 1988 14:13 | 59 |
| Well, thanks to everyone for all the information. We went back to look at
the house again last night. We also picked up a more detailed listing for
it. It seems we seriously understimated the size of the house (and, thus,
the cost to finish it). If you're interested in the details:
It's actually closer to 3000 square feet. A portion of the house is
26 X 36, both upstairs and down. Then, there's a huge "wing" that includes
three rooms: a sunken living room, with a spot for a fireplace;
a "sunroom" with four skylights, 8 casement windows on the south side, and
6 casement windows on the east side; and a den. All three rooms have
cathedral ceilings (no, I wouldn't want to do the wall board for those!)
There are about 6 large custom windows in various spots, and many other
casement windows throughout the house. There's also three sets of glass
doors (french doors?). All of the windows are low-E by Marvin.
So, I was wrong, there aren't 8 rooms. Actually, the rooms on the first
floor are as follows:
Kitchen (very large; approx. 17 X 14)
Dining
Family
Laundry (small room; not in a bathroom)
Sunroom (17 X 14)
Study (14 X 14)
Living Room (17 X 14)
1/2 Bath
2 car garage
Foyer
Also, the stairs that lead upstairs curve around into a right angle,
leaving a nice opening from the 2nd floor to the 1st floor.
For the second floor, there are:
2 full baths (one off the master)
Master bedroom (framed for a walk in closet and a large bathroom, with
possibility of a Jacuzzi and 2 sinks). Also, has a small balcony, which
looks out at the Southwestern view.
3 bedrooms (approx. 7' X 10', 10' X 10', and 10' X 17')
All the bedrooms are framed for large closets.
There also appears to be some attic space.
RE: .9 Yes, I think this house would easily be worth more than 200K when
it's done.
Unfortunately, I think it will probably cost a fortune (read: more than
100K) to finish it. After reading your suggestions, I realize that we would
be better off hiring someone to do all of the work for us and finish the
house before we move in.
I'll post a note (in fact, probably many "help" notices!) if we decide to
move on this property. Chances are that it's just a pipe dream for us.
If we pass it up and anyone else is interested (and has lots of spare $$$),
I'll post the location and realtor.
Kemlo
|
128.66 | Why do it ALL now? | SALEM::PAGLIARULO | | Wed May 25 1988 20:30 | 8 |
| The house sounds like it would be a real jewel when finished.
If you don't need all that room right away maybe an option is to
finish what you need (kitchen, bedrooms, family room etc.) and leave
the others until the cash register is re-stocked.
Good Luck
George
|
128.67 | Good Luck! | SMURF::FLECCHIA | | Fri May 27 1988 17:33 | 41 |
|
We've (my husband and I) been building our house for 2 years now.
We subcontracted to have the frame built, windows in, roof and siding
done which was a HEADACHE. We ended up breaking our contract with
this person, because he had overcharged us by 25%, and was stealing
things off the lot, because we weren't their during the day the
police dept. said we couldn't prove it. But thats another story..
Had our well and septic put it. We did things on and off by ourselves
having never really done any of this. Our house is LARGE 11 rooms
the foundation is 51 X 58 has 3200sqft. When it came time for some
of the larger projects we hired out. We moved in last July/August
and had still NO heat, sub-floors only, toilets connected no tub
sheet rock wasn't even up but scheduled for end of August etc.,.
We learnt by those wonderfull Time-Life books. Since last
August, we have put in the kitchen and bathroom cabinets, layed
3 floors with ceramic tile and grouted, had carpet put in
professionally trim is up around all windows, stained and on the
baseboard, we just installed our outside lights, but not in the
garage yet. Takes time, time and pressure we have both been under
since day 1. We have a daughter who will be 3 this July, and
we have the attitude now that she comes first and if we get to the
project (yes there are many left) we get to them. Our only priority
for the house this summer is putting up the railing upstairs and
hopefully have enough $$$$ to put up a deck of the back door (its
only about 15FT off the ground) guess we should make it a priority.
We also obtained a Construction Loan, which is very different from
a regular loan. Everything is broken down by percentage. YOU MUST
PAY FIRST then the bank reimburses you after the appraiser goes
out and says yes it was done. It is good for 6 months, we had to
extend ours for 3 more months which cost us but I don't remember
how much it wasn't alot.
I wish you all the luck in the world. Would I do it again? NO,
it put alot of pressure on our marriage and we lost 2 years of our
daughter growing..
Best wishes
Karen
|
128.68 | We're going to pass on it... | ROXXY::AKI | Kemlo | Fri May 27 1988 20:18 | 20 |
| This has been interesting... In addition to the construction "stories"
in this notes file, people have called and stopped by my office to relate
their building experiences. It's been very helpful and informative.
My husband and I have thought about it, discussed it, and thought some
more. We've decided that there are just too many things going on in our
lives right now to devote all our time and energy to finishing off a house
that's too expensive for our current budget. (I can already hear the
boo-ing and hiss-ing from you hardcore homebuilders :^)
Maybe our next house...
If anyone else is interested: The house is located in Dunbarton (Robert
Roger's Road), and the listing agent is Heidi Palmer RE in New Boston. I
still think the house offers alot and might be a great opportunity for
someone. If you decide to check it out, enter a note or send me mail - I'd
be interested in what someone else has to say about it. I'd *love* to see
what it looks like when it's all done...
Kemlo
|
128.69 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Sat May 28 1988 12:14 | 13 |
| Maybe later on in your life. There will be plenty of work to do
(if you choose to do it) on *any* house that you buy, and you can
try doing some things and see how you like it. If you discover
you really enjoy it, and decide you're pretty good at it, there
will always be another dream house to build.
It's really amazing how long stuff like that takes to do when
it's juggled in between a "real" job and all the ordinary life
chores like going to the dump and grocery shopping that have to
get done too. I enjoy a moderate amount of home fixup work.
When I *HAVE* to do it, it soon becomes *WORK*. I find it's
much more fun if a project doesn't consume every spare instant
of my time for months on end.
|
128.70 | | CSSE32::NICHOLS | HERB | Tue May 31 1988 14:18 | 11 |
| re .16
If you hear anything from the "hardcore homebuilders", i think it
will be expressions of support.
I have been following this correspondence with a great deal
of interest. Several times - because I have no HARD evidence- I have
resisted the temptation to discourage you from this undertaking.
I believe it was a very wise decision. It takes major committment
AND ability to undertake what you planned.
Kudos to all, in particular .15, for the comments.
herb
|
128.51 | | AKOV13::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Tue Aug 09 1988 17:08 | 20 |
| About the 10%ers - I don't think you would have been better off
with them. If I understood the numbers correctly,
$83,000 - house
$30,000 - contents
-------
$113,000 - total
$ 10,000 - additional by 10%er
--------
$123,000 - new total
This would have made you give $12,300 to the 10%er, leaving you
with $110,700. It seems that this would have cost you $2,300.
It sounds like you were ok on your own.
How is the house coming along?
Ed..
|
128.317 | | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Fri Dec 09 1988 16:50 | 10 |
|
Whatever method you choose, make sure the house is really *tight*,
or the friendly palmetto bugs will find a way in. They often make
there way in along the sill area. I've seen some awfully shoddy
construction down there.
I'll take snowy New England over palmetto bugs, thank you.
-tm
|
128.318 | | OFFHK::SCANLAND | Tubes, or not tubes? That is the question. | Fri Dec 09 1988 22:44 | 13 |
| Re: palmetto bugs.
It doesn't matter how tight it is they get in anyway. They can flatten
themselves down to a couple of atoms thick, or at least it seems that
way. That ain't the half of it. They fly, too.
Couldn't count how many times I stomped on one or smacked one with a
newspaper only to have the darn thing go airborne (and often as not in
my direction).
at least they don't bite
Chuck
|
128.319 | | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Tue Dec 13 1988 14:14 | 14 |
|
RE: .6 Atomic sized palmetto bugs :^)
Seriously, it *does* mattter how the house is built. True,
it is not going to entirely prevent them from getting in,
but it can sure make the battle easier. I've seen homes so
poorly built that full sized palmetto bugs could walk right
into the first floor (and yes, I do mean "full sized").
>at least they don't bite
yet. :^)
|
128.89 | HOUSE PLANS FOR SLOPING TERRAIN NEEDED | DNEAST::BOUCHARD_MIK | | Wed Feb 22 1989 13:54 | 38 |
| I'm currently planning to build a house. I have been shopping for
houseplans in local bookstores without much success. Here's what
I'm looking for:
- Design for upward sloping terrain
- 3000 square feet
- 4 bedrooms
- 3 car garage
- energy efficiency
- design statement (not a box)
- design for functionality
I have a reasonably good size lot (5.3 acres), so a large foundation
size is not a problem.
I have limited money available and need to spend it wisely. I am
willing to pay for advice, but need to make sure I am not throwing
money away due to inexperience.
I have gone to some local Architects
but am not impressed. They don't offer more than local lumber yards
except a much higher fee ($2,000 to $6,000 for a full set of custom
plans). I don't feel I need "custom plans", but am willing to pay
"consultants fees" for sound engineering advice once plans have
been selected.
Any help out there?
Mike Bouchard
DNEAST::BOUCHARD_MIK
DTN: 271-6860
|
128.90 | Design it Yourself | OASS::B_RAMSEY | Bruce Ramsey | Wed Feb 22 1989 22:20 | 65 |
| Do you have an idea of what house you want to build??
Do you want gabled roofs and turrets with large sweeping porches
(Victorian) or do you want steel and glass modern? Do you have
to accommodate physically handicapped and have it all one story or
do you prefer to have the sleeping/private quarters on a different
level from the living/entertaining/public areas?
Are you concerned about fuel efficiency or are you looking at
independence from outside fuel suppliers? Energy efficiency can be
built into most any style house but complete independence from fuel
sources often dictates the the style and physical orientation of
the house. Passive solar houses take advantage of some aspects of
solar gain and window placement where Active solar houses require
more thought out design.
Are you concerned about maintenance? Brick, stucco, and stone exteriors
require virtually no maintenance while wood siding requires regular
painting/staining. Slate roofs last basically indefinitely and cost
more initially while asphalt shingles must be replaced every 25 years
but cut the cost of building the house.
Personally, I would like to design my own house and then take it to an
architect to clean up obvious errors and prepare blueprints. I would
think that answering some of the above questions may force you to build
one style of house or to modify a common style into a structure you
are happy with.
Different people use houses differently. As mentioned in another
recent topic, the noter felt disappointed because a contractor would
not offer suggestions as where to put the windows in an addition.
The reply given was that the noter should make the decision based
on how they plan on using the space. A sun room usually has more
and larger windows while a study/library needs more wall space for
shelves.
A book you may want to look at for concepts about how to design
a house is the topic of note 1522. _A Pattern Language_ discusses
the need for small children to have hidey-holes and entertaining
areas to have higher ceilings to promote the feeling of grandeur.
Adults need private areas for reflection and escape from the
distractions of everyday life.
Also think about the location of the house. A log cabin looks out
of place in a contemporary suburb but fits a private mountain top
or secluded lake site. A large stucco with tile roof mixes the
Spanish heritage of Florida with the practicality of the rot
resistance needed in bug invested, humid, sandy area.
I have not given you a place to look for plans other than inside
yourself. Buy a couple of the magazines with floor plans and look at
what you like and decide what you cannot stand. Try to incorporate
this into a plan of your own. A good architect is going to ask you
similar questions.
Note 2883 contains thoughts from readers of this conference about what
makes up the perfect home. Note 1111.10 lists all the notes with the
keyword Architecture&Design. These notes should show you that everyone
has a different idea of the perfect house.
Sorry I droned on so long but I felt you were attacking the problem
from the wrong angle and I wanted you to see that maybe you are
asking the wrong questions of the wrong people.
|
128.91 | Live Like a Hobbit | CLOSET::T_PARMENTER | Bite the wax tadpole | Thu Feb 23 1989 12:05 | 3 |
| On a slope, energy efficient, architectural statement. How about
a berm house, built into the side of the hill? _Mother_Earth_News_
had an article about them in the last year or so.
|
128.92 | My $.02 worth. | JULIET::MILLER_PA | Niners, SUPERBOWL CHAMPS | Fri Feb 24 1989 17:56 | 14 |
| re: -1
If you build the house into the hill, use the top as a garage/carport
and also for insulation. Put solar panel on top of the garage and
the hill will also be a _great_ insulator.
I've been thinking about building a house like that for years!
Keeps us posted on how the construction goes and what you finally
decide to do.
GREAT luck and go for it...
Patrick
|
128.93 | How to put a house into storage | RAINBO::LARUE | An easy day for a lady. | Fri May 05 1989 15:48 | 10 |
| I sm looking for advice from you all on closing up a house for long
periods of time. This house is wooden, in a small rural town in
West Virginia, has all it's plumbing indoors. I am wondering what
it is that I need to do to keep it as free of damage from animals,
weather, temperature as I can. I am thinking of pipes, furniture,
furnace. Not having closed up houses for more then a couple weeks
at a time, I'm sure there are things to be done that I'm not aware
of.
Dondi
|
128.94 | Winterizing in 1563 | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Fri May 05 1989 16:00 | 6 |
| See 1563 for the winterizing aspects of closing up a house. Since
closing up is a superset of winterizing, let's continue the broader
discussion here, but try to separate the winterizing-specific
information and post it in 1563.
DCL, moderator_splitting_hairs
|
128.95 | < House Plans With Handicapped Access > | SAHQ::SHULER | | Wed Jan 03 1990 12:56 | 17 |
| <House Plans With Handicapped Access>
Does anyone know of house plans (capes or other single story)
that are designed with the handicapped in mind?
I know that the doorways, outside access and baths need to be
a certain size. Gardens can also be designed so those who
are wheel chair bound can still enjoy gardening.
Do you know of any good books/magazine articles on this subject?
If you don't want to reply to this note, you can reach me on
sahq::shuler.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Gina
|
128.96 | A few ideas | OASS::RAMSEY_B | Don't become a statistic | Wed Jan 03 1990 17:39 | 56 |
| One of the fellas I worked with for about 4 years was a paraplegic.
He was in the process of building a house when he left DEC. He said
one of the concerns for him was a very level lot. The garage had to
be one the right side of the house so that he could open the door to
his van and roll into the house. All doorways were at least 3-0 (36
inch). He tried to eliminate hallways as much as possible, wasted
space and more space he had to transverse to get to his destination.
He tried to eliminate doors if at all possible. Those that he had to
have, he was going to use pocket doors so that the door would not be in
the way when opened. Door knobs were going to be of the lever type
because he had little use of his fingers and it was difficult for him
to grasp a knob and turn it.
All flooring was going to be of a hard substance. Shag carpet is hard
to roll a wheel chair on. All electrical outlets were going to be
placed higher on the wall because he could not bend over to plug stuff
in. Switches would be lower so that he did not have to reach up to
turn lights on/off. All counter tops would be only 18 inches deep
because it was difficult for him to reach all the way to the back of a
24 inch counter. They were also going to be lower than the standard 36
inch height. The sinks in the house were designed for the handicapped
and did not have vanities underneath so that he could roll up under the
sink.
The bathroom would be all tile. There would not be a tub. The shower
would be a larger than normal so that he could roll his chair in and
take a shower in his chair. He had two chairs, one for showers and one
for everyday use.
He had an architect that specialized in designing homes for the
handicapped. If you would like, I can try to contact my friend and see
if he can get you contact information for the architect. We live in
Atlanta, so if may not be convenient for you. You might try contacting
your local colleges/universities which teach architecture and they may
be able to give a list of architects in your area. I imagine that
there is a professional organization for architects which might be able
to give you a pointer to one in your area which caters to the needs of
the handicapped.
As to gardens, raise the garden by using planters so that wheel chairs
can be pulled up alongside and they can access the soil.
Most of the suggestions I have mentioned assume a person in a wheel
chair with no ability to move their legs, fingers, and only limited
ability to move their arms. Mike had to be strapped in to his chair
because he did not have control of the muscles which would enable him
to sit upright.
We have two visually impaired women who work here who have a different
set of requirements. They say that each handicap has limitations which
need to be catered to. For instance, Deaf cannot hear alarms, so smoke
detectors, wake up alarms, stove timers, etc. must be equipped to flash
a light.
Ask the handicapped in mind and I am sure they can offer many clues as
to things they would like changed to make their life easier.
|
128.97 | I saw one | HPSTEK::EKOKERNAK | Lighter later | Wed Jan 03 1990 18:22 | 7 |
| I believe there was an article in TFH (The Family Handyman) a while ago
on how to make a home handicapped accessible. It had some good
pictures in it, too. I'll see if I can get the exact reference for
you.
Elaine
|
128.98 | | VISE::LEVESQUE | Never ever enough | Wed Jan 03 1990 18:40 | 9 |
|
My Mom was injured in a fall back in 82 and has been paralyzed from
the waist down since. My folks live in a large cape that required alot
of remodeling to accomidate her. A new kitchen and bath and wheel chair
ramps. My mom wanted to stay in this house even though she hasn't seen
the upstairs in 8 years and has never been in the basement either.
BAL
|
128.99 | found a book! | NYEM1::MILBERG | Barry Milberg | Wed Jan 03 1990 23:06 | 20 |
| one of the remodelling books we've 'invested in' had a whole section
on designing for the handicapped. it is-
Adding Space Without Adding On
by Herb Hughes
Creative Homeowner Press
ISBN 0-932944-60-4
$8.95 (list)
purchased at Home Depot (in NJ).
pages 27-29 cover wheelchair dimensions, doors and ramps and bathroom
special fixtures. There are chart with reach dimensions for the
handicapped.
If you can't find the book, send me a mail message and I'll copy
the pages when I get back to the office (2 weeks).
-Barry-
|
128.100 | another possibility | IAMOK::ALFORD | I'd rather be fishing | Thu Jan 04 1990 11:00 | 7 |
| If you are in the Boston area, you might try giving the
Boston Society of Architects a call (617-267-5175) and they
may be able to recommend specific architects, books, offer
plans for sale, etc.
deb
|
128.101 | < Thank You > | SAHQ::SHULER | | Thu Jan 04 1990 13:32 | 6 |
| Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for all your ideas. You have been a lot of help!!
Gina
|
128.326 | Garrison colonial - exterior detail | TLE::DMURPHY | Dennis Murphy | Fri Jan 05 1990 20:03 | 13 |
| I'm interested in adding some exterior details to my garrison colonial.
What I really want to build are those "things" that look like christmas
tree ornamets and hang from the outside corners of the garrison overhang.
So.. what's the question??
What do you call those "things" and where can I get plans for building
them.
Thanks.
Dennis Murphy
|
128.327 | Pendants | TALLIS::LEACH | | Mon Jan 08 1990 08:42 | 5 |
|
They're called pendants. I think I have some plans/pictures of some
period designs. I'll check and get back to you.
Patrick
|
128.328 | recommend Fypon (tm) | VIA::GLANTZ | Mike, DTN 381-1253 | Mon Jan 08 1990 12:24 | 24 |
| I'm sure this reply would be more useful in another note, but I don't
know exactly which one. Mods please move if appropriate.
At many large lumber yards and home centers (Mullen, Somerville), you
can ask to see a catalog of Fypon (tm) products. This company makes
hundreds of decorative and ornamental pieces for colonial period
construction, including crown and dentil moldings, lentils, plinths,
medallions. rosettes, etc. Their products are made of injection-
molded, pre-primed synthetic foam (feels like a cross between urethane
and ABS), whose main advantages are:
- incredibly large selection
- much cheaper than equivalent wood piece
- resistant to rot, mildew, insects
- easier to work with
and whose main disadvantages are:
- can't be stained
- slightly more fragile than wood while working
We've used several pieces on our house, and they're beautiful, and,
when painted, you can't tell them from authentic wooden pieces. Highly
recommended, especially because of wide selection.
|
128.329 | Another OHJ plug | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Mon Jan 08 1990 14:01 | 2 |
| There are companies besides Fypon in this business - both real wood and fake
wood - and many of them advertise in the Old-House Journal.
|
128.102 | From The Family Handyman | HPSTEK::EKOKERNAK | Lighter later | Mon Jan 08 1990 14:03 | 13 |
| The Family Handyman article is in the October 1988 issue, p. 40-42.
It's called "Adapting your home for special needs". It references work
done by The Hartford Insurance Group.
I'll quote now:
" For information on "the Hartford House", a prototype home built to
display products like those we've featured, send a stamped,
self-addressed business size envelope to The Hartford House, Dept. FH,
Hartford Plaza, Hartford, CT 06115"
Elaine
|
128.330 | You want I should send you some copies? | TALLIS::LEACH | | Tue Jan 09 1990 08:04 | 6 |
|
I found some pictures of pendants that I will Xerox for you, if you
want. Let me know. Making them will be no problem, provided you have
access to a bandsaw.
Patrick
|
128.103 | Urine smell throughout house - fixable? | DPDMAI::NORTON | Jean Boggess - Austin, Texas | Tue Aug 21 1990 16:24 | 7 |
| We are considering buying a fixer-upper that has a few problems, the
smell of urine being one. The house has hard-wood floors in most
rooms, and carpet in one room. I don't know yet what is underneath it.
How do you get rid of the urine smell that permeates an entire house?
Jean Norton
|
128.104 | | NRADM::PARENT | IT'S NOT PMS-THIS IS HOW I REALLY AM | Tue Aug 21 1990 16:55 | 10 |
| Re .0
This house isn't on Old Connecticut Path in Framingham, is it???
If so, they'll probably have to burn the house down to get rid of
the stench from all those cats.
Aside from the obvious....do you know what caused such a strong
odor? (ie: little boys with bad aim or overrun with animals, etc??)
Be Careful!
|
128.105 | | AUSTIN::BOGGESS | Jean Boggess Norton | Tue Aug 21 1990 18:29 | 5 |
| I'm not sure what caused the strong odor. I suspect dog or cat, but I
have no way of knowing for sure. I expect I will have to sand down the
hard-wood floors and refinish them, but I'm not sure if that will work.
Jean
|
128.106 | clean, seal, or replace | TOOK::M_OLSON | | Tue Aug 21 1990 19:05 | 30 |
| You need to figure out where the urine smell is actually coming from.
Then you have three options:
clean and deodorize
seal
replace
It helps to know what kind of animal caused the problem. Enzyme
cleaners (expensive, available a pet stores and mail order through
pet catalogs) do a good job on hard and mildly porous surfaces:
tile, basement floor, carpet if the problem is fresh. If the problem
soaked through carpet, you need to treat the floor underneath the
carpet. I discovered an odor problem in our tiled front entry
after moving in; three or four enzyme cleanings fixed it.
The longer the urine sat, the further it soaked into the surface in
question and the harder it will be to clean. If the problem is in
the subfloor under carpeting, I would seal the subfloor (thus sealing
in the odor) and replace the carpet. Urine soaked into plywood subfoor
is going to be almost impossible to remove. Urine soaked into concrete
or tile grout can be removed by soaking the effected area with enzyme
cleaner. Wood, wallboard, and very porous surfaces have to be attacked
promptly or replaced.
If a male cat sprayed on the walls, you will have to either find a
way to seal them, or replace the wallboard. Male cat spray has the
strongest odor.
If you ever get a cat or dog, spend 10 dollars on enzyme cleaner the
day you get the animal. Clean up problems promptly with the cleaner
and you will never have an odor problem. Let something soak into
a porous surface and you will have big odor problems.
|
128.107 | urine stains are not beautiful | SHALDU::MCBLANE | | Tue Aug 21 1990 19:46 | 7 |
| I don't know how sanding floors will effect the odor, but if there
is really urine on them, the stains will not come out. You will
probably want to count into your "fix it" estimate installing new
hardwood floors or carpets ... and then deduct this cost from the
offer you make on the house.
-Amy
|
128.108 | | NITMOI::PESENTI | Only messages can be dragged | Wed Aug 22 1990 10:52 | 3 |
| If the animal was a male, it is not unlikely that it urinated on the
walls, baseboards, woodwork, etc. After all, the boys often lift a leg
when they go. So you may have to paint the walls and trim, too.
|
128.109 | paint not sufficient | TOOK::M_OLSON | | Wed Aug 22 1990 15:37 | 3 |
| .-1: painting the walls and trim won't seal them and therefore
won't solve the odor problem. You would need to use shellac
or polyurethane or something like that.
|
128.110 | Could it be Ureaformaldehyde Insulation in Walls? | AMELIA::SEGAL | Len Segal, MLO6-1/U30, 223-7687 | Wed Aug 22 1990 16:53 | 15 |
| Call me a little suspicious, but if the smell is in all rooms of the
house, maybe it isn't urine at all? [We once moved into an
apartment that had wall-to-wall carpeting in the living/dining room,
with large stained/bleached areas from an incontinent dog that the
previous tenants had (and they had lived there for ~7 years)...BUT
there were absolutely no odors from the carpet/floor.]
I'm not positive, but I seem to remember odor problems from
Ureaformaldehyde insulation that people used to put in their walls.
This stuff was blamed for causing cancer and (I think) outlawed for
use as house insulation.
You might want to check out what I noted above with a Building
Inspector in any Town/City. If this is the cause of the odor, I'd
run away from this house as fast as my feet would take me.
|
128.111 | big job | GOLF::BROUILLET | Undeveloped photographic memory | Fri Aug 24 1990 13:08 | 6 |
| I know someone who bought a house like this. Cat urine had soaked into
the particleboard subfloors in every room. They had to replace ALL the
subfloors. Lots of work - those ring nails don't come out very easy.
I'm not sure if sealing the floor would be 100% effective. You'll only
be able to seal the top surface.
|
128.112 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Fri Aug 24 1990 19:31 | 27 |
| I'm not going to pick on cats and dogs -- they make wonderful pets
-- but caring for them properly is lots of work. When owners'
don't care for their pets they can cause serious damange to the
homes in which they live.
It is my understanding that when "animal smells" -- including the
smell of human animals -- permeate a house it can be difficult and
expensive to eliminate them. In some cases is is impractiaclly
expensive.
If the house was allowed to be come this filthy I would also
suggest that you inspect carfully for insect and/or rodent
infestation, and for the damage that these pests can cause.
If the odor problem is limited and it is practical to tear out and
replace the odorouse parts of the house, then you may be O.K. to
go ahead with the "fixer-uper". If the problem is spread
throughout all or much of the house I suggest you seriously
consider finding another property.
If you do want to consider this property you might want to
consider looking for a professional service that would give you a
guaranteed price for "de-odorizing". That price would be taken
into consideration in your making an offer for the house. Problem
is I don't know if you could find anyone willing to offer such a
guarantee -- which leads back to the suggestion that you bypass
this purchase.
|
128.113 | another smell story | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Sat Aug 25 1990 05:11 | 18 |
| Well, I'll just mention a positive experience to balance all the negative
ones. A friend bought a house in which the living room carpet had been
mega-soaked with dog urine. They didn't know before they bought it --
apparently the owner used lysol liberally before showings. And it wasn't
in other rooms, just the living room (the basement had horrors of its
own, but that's another story).
What we did was to scrape up the living room carpet... literally. Then
they had the hardwood floor refinished. The contractor used a bleaching
agent to lighten the stains, but the worst ones never came out. That
doesn't matter, though, as my friends have a rug that covers most of
the floor, so no stains are visible. And the smell was entirely gone.
But oh, boy, was it a disgusting job to get the carpet and foam padding
off that floor!
Luck,
Larry
|
128.114 | | VLNVAX::OLEKSIAK | | Mon Aug 27 1990 17:02 | 3 |
|
I agree with .7 just to be on the safe side check the walls for
Ureaformaldehyde insulation....... jo
|
128.5 | Any recent experiences? | 3304::ROCH | | Wed Nov 07 1990 03:05 | 2 |
| Has anyone worked with Acorn since .5? I'm considering them as an
alternative and would like some more recent experiences.
|
128.6 | live in an acorn | TOOK::M_OLSON | | Wed Nov 07 1990 14:56 | 17 |
| We bought an Acorn 2nd hand a year and a half ago; it is now about 4
years old. It is a very nice house to live in; Acorn thinks about
things like air circulation. We have had some problems with the
solarium that are being fixed under warranty (it transfers to new
owners).
We also looked at building an Acorn, but rejected it mostly due to the
time and energy required. However, talking to them it was very easy to
see why people wind up with a house that costs too much. Their
estimates don't include land, foundation, driveway, wells, or septic,
since the price of those things varies so much by site. Then there are
the usual upgrade issues that apply to any house you have built.
One thing: never ever ever put a down-draft range in an open plan
house. This is the one serious goof the previous owners made. In
their defense, we thought the down-draft was great until we moved in
and actually lived with it.
|
128.7 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Thu Nov 08 1990 13:37 | 3 |
| The downdraft range digression has been moved to new note 4026.
Paul
|
128.115 | Build a new house or buy an existing one? | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Thu Nov 29 1990 14:54 | 28 |
|
Hello all,
I am writing this note because we are in process of MAYBE building a
house in the spring. I have a ton of questions and have looked at
many a note in this conference. Since this is 1991 almost and
house construction and sales are in a severe slump, I thought I would
try to get better figures on latest costs. My wife and I have a budget
of 130-140k for everthing except legal fees. My first dilemma is
is how big of a cape cod style house with full dormers in sq ft. can I
build for 110k not including land, septic, well, clearing, at today's
rates. How much are general contractors making nowadays? I heard that
the 20% rule is no longer true but 5-10% is more reasonable. I have
finished off a basement. That's about it for my construction experience.
Should I hire a general contractor or should I be one? Should I buy a
house on the market or should I try to build one. Any replies would be
much appreciated.
Thanks
|
128.116 | | AKOCOA::SALLOWAY | The Owls are not what they Seem | Thu Nov 29 1990 15:00 | 13 |
| I would think that in a bad real estate market, its to your advantage
to buy an existing house rather than building. The costs of building
may go up or down a little bit depending on the market, but they are
relatively inelastic. On the other hand, your chance of finding a
real bargain from someone who has to sell, or a house that been on the
market for a long time are very good. The upshot is, that for $130k,
the house you build is about the same in 1986 as today, but the
existing house you can buy is a much better house today than in 1986.
Throw in the stress/aggravation/risk of building, and I think you can
do much better by finding a house that already exists.
-Brian
|
128.117 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Thu Nov 29 1990 16:27 | 10 |
| Please direct any discussion about estimating the cost of building a new house
to note 742. The old title of that note was "Garrison building costs", but it
is really not specific to Garrisons. I renamed it to "Estimating the cost of
building a new house."
This note remains open to discussion about whether to build a new house or to
buy an existing one, and I've renamed it to reflect that.
Paul
[Moderator]
|
128.118 | And there's more around | ISLNDS::CALCAGNI | A.F.F.A. | Thu Nov 29 1990 17:07 | 9 |
|
There are a lot of houses around that only have the outside done.
I was able to find one that only had the inside partitions up.
I changed the inside around to suit my tastes and finished the house
off. I saved quite a sum of money this way and was able to move
into a new house for less then a older one.
Cal.
|
128.119 | I just went through this and am building | EISKPS::SLATTERY | | Thu Nov 29 1990 17:22 | 42 |
| I am in the process of building a house in N.E. (actually a builder is on my
behalf)
We looked at about 40 existing houses. We figured they would be cheaper.
Some conclusions:
1) Most sellers expect more than their house is worth
-It takes 6-9 months of sitting on the market to convince them that they
are unrealistic and drop the price.
2) It is possible to find an existing house in a "fire sale" (we missed one by
6 hours...someone else scooped it up) but you have to look a lot
3) If you live in a "Digital" area check with VTX homes. You can get a VERY
good deal on these
Given this, why are we building?
1) We couldn't find exactly what we wanted (except for the house we missed by
6 h6 hours)
2) New construction was not more expensive than a "non fire sale" house
- L- land drives the price a lot and land prices are off severely
- B- builders are realistic about the market and know that they won't
get 1987 pricing
The bottom line to us is:
1) We are getting exactly what we want
2) It is new
3) We are paying the same or slightly less than a comparable existing house
under non fire sale conditions
There is no doubt that better deals exist but you have to factor in time, effort
and aggravation. If we got the house that we just missed it would have been
a better deal than we are getting; however, we missed it and another didn't
present itself.
Hope this helps
Ken Slattery
|
128.120 | Go existing construction | CIMNET::MOCCIA | | Thu Nov 29 1990 17:25 | 13 |
| $130-140K will buy a cape of about 1000 sq ft about ten miles
outside of Boston, existing construction, on about 1/4 acre.
This is considered a "starter home". You'll have a hard time
inducing a builder to construct a small home; there just isn't
enough profit in it for the builder. This means you'd be doing
all the subcontracting yourself. I would second the suggestion
that you look for an existing home, several of which are
probably available at depressed prices. This is not generic
rambling; I just sold such ahome in a Boston suburb and I'm
resonably familiar with the present market in this range.
pbm
|
128.121 | I'm contracting an addition right now - some hints | BRANDX::SULLIVAN | none | Thu Nov 29 1990 19:26 | 29 |
| I'm adding on to a house right now - an expanded kitchen and family room. My
wife and I (mostly myself) decided to act as the contractor basically because
our tastes are more expensive than our budget. We got some estimates from
contractors in the 75k range. We will do it (whenever it gets done) for
somewhere in the low to mid 50k range - while putting lot's of extras in it.
As to whether or not to act as a contractor yourself...One book that helped me
decide was "A guide to Building Your Own Home" (I have to check the author).
The first part of it basically informs you what is involved and provided me
with the assurances that it could be done. The other part of the book
provides very detailed cost estimating and planning information, including a
sample master plan (thus, I should post this in 742 also). One of the main
things I remember was it's emphasis on the contractor role as being the planner,
estimator, and scheduler, and not as the worker.
I have done some of the work, and enjoyed it. But, for example, my insulation
was done today by a subcontractor for not much more than it would have cost me
to do it myself. My blueboard and plastering will be done Monday and Tuesday
and will come out much better than I could do it myself.
There have been a lot of headaches (for example, just this week I considered
placing my wife in the wall before plastering when she said "I want to change
the kitchen design").
I don't know if it makes more sense for you to build or buy. For us it seemed
to make more sense to add on and get what we want (within budget), versus
moving, trying to sell our house, losing a good mortgage rate, and having to
compromise more on what we got.
|
128.122 | New house underway | MAY10::STOJDA | | Fri Nov 30 1990 10:54 | 21 |
| Like .4, I am also in the process of having a new home built and for
the same reason. My wife and I looked at a lot of homes (probably
200-300) before deciding to build out own. I ultimately bought a lot
at a forclosure auction. We just broke ground last week. Having
spoken with builder as far back as 2 years ago, I can say that prices
have certainly have come down on building in eastern Mass. by 20-30%.
I'll put in more information in the price note when I get a chance, but
for the contractor we chose, the price is ~160K for a 3,000 square foot
contemporary colonial.
If you can find a reasonably priced piece of land, I think you can
certainly build a good sized cape for 110K. Depending on the floor
layout you have in mind, you may want to consider modular construction.
We did, but our layout did not lend itself to going modular.
You will find, as we did, that in the current real estate maket, the
builder are also hurting. Of course, this means you have to be extra
careful when picking one.
- Mike
|
128.123 | | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Fri Nov 30 1990 12:16 | 13 |
| I am a little confused by some of the answers I got. I guess I would
want to build/buy in the Westminster/Ashburnham area. One of the
replies said I could buy a '1000 sq.ft' House for 130k. Then another
reply said I could build a 3000 sq.ft house for 160k. There is a big
difference there. Seems like from the answers I got so far that
building is the way to go to get the most house for my money. Also
I could probably live with a house that was not full finished right
away ( just live on the sub-floor, no carpets or hardwood, one bath,
etc.).
Thanks for the replies
|
128.124 | Don't forget to figure in land cost | MFGMEM::S_JOHNSON | Underdog: The Movie | Fri Nov 30 1990 12:20 | 11 |
| re <<< Note 4042.8 by AQUA::CHINNASWAMY >>>
> Seems like from the answers I got so far that
> building is the way to go to get the most house for my money.
Hmmmm.....I'd bet if you did a survey of price per sq ft for both
existing and new construction, the new construction would cost more.....
|
128.125 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Fri Nov 30 1990 12:25 | 18 |
| > I could probably live with a house that was not full finished right
> away ( just live on the sub-floor, no carpets or hardwood, one bath,
> etc.).
Just a warning - you will have a tough time financing this. Normal mortgage
companies like to have the house completely finished (at least the first floor,
they seem better able to cope with unfinished second floors) before they will
give you a mortgage, because it's a pain for them to sell an unfinished house
if you default on the loan. It will also be difficult to get financing if
you try to be your own contractor - "Hi, I never built a house before but I
want you to give me $130K to build one" doesn't fly well with banking types.
It can be done, but don't expect it to be as easy as a normal house mortgage.
I don't really want to steer this discussion in that direction, see note
1111.40 for notes on financing to explore that avenue further. But I did want
to flag the issue for you as one you'll need to give a lot of thought to.
Paul
|
128.126 | FWIW | CSDNET::DICASTRO | Global Re-leaf! | Fri Nov 30 1990 15:08 | 33 |
| I would venture to state, that purchasing a pre-existing home in a
receeding economy is a far better option for a non-builder. If you
have already secured your $$$, an auction sale is very desireable.
I mention the already secured $, because payoff is usually required in
30 days. If you look in the Sunday Boston Globe auction pages you will
find thousands of properties. Some are even selling at "best price
offered, no minimum". Several recently sold on the cape, and we
fabulous deals. But be weary, and understand the conditions of the
sale.
Also there are several benifits to purchasing pre-existing homes.
Water, and sewer (or well), are already in, home performance is already
known EX, cost to heat, cool, water in basement?,also landscaping is
already done, as well as driveways, etc........
Also, purchase prices of homes are dropping, and yes people are leaving
Taxachusettes, leaving good deals behind.
As far a building one your self, as the previous noter mentioned,
construction loans are usually for one year, and then you need to pay
it off/convert the debt into a mortgage. And for being your own General
contractor,....that is discussed else where,your results actual may
vary.
Dont forget, w/ pre-existing homes, the cost to build in 70 was say...
50k, sellers may not mind reducing an appreciation. On the other hand
to build a new one , you pay todays material prices, and builders
rates. Very little compromise available......
Bottom line.... best bet is to get the $$$ (some how), and glean the
auction/forclosure sections of your favorite Sunday paper.
My .02$
|
128.127 | Theory and practice sometimes diverge | EISKPS::SLATTERY | | Mon Dec 03 1990 16:42 | 33 |
| Several notes have taken a theroetical view of the market.
I agree with the theory that
"Existing construction should be cheaper than new..."
It just didn't pan out for me in the real world.
Foreclosures exist as do motivatied sellers.
My impression of these (after 3 months of looking) was, if you happen to find
the house you want under these circumstances great!!!! You won't beat the
deal.. However, if you expect to find 5 properties in your area to your liking
that fit this description...I think you are mistaken. Maybe we were just picky
but we found only one house (out of at least 10-15) Digital/relo/motivated
seller that we would consider putting an offer on. We did but were 6 hours
late. If there were 4 more around, we would be living in one now.
Another thing is that we decided we did not want to invest the time/risk of
looking at foreclosures.
After all was said and done, we think we got the best deal financially, going
with new construction (before looking at other things like not having to
replace ugly carpet).
People selling houses by our same builder were asking 5-10% above the builders
asking price for a 2-5 year old version of our house (probably what they paid).
I guess the only way to choose is to try all alternatives and make your own
personal choice.
Ken Slattery
|
128.128 | Ditto on .12 | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Mon Dec 03 1990 17:06 | 18 |
| At least in New Hampshire, a lot depends on the age of the existing
construction at which you are looking. If the house is in the 3-5
year old range, chances are very good that the owners paid such a
high price that they can NOT afford to negotiate downward, especially
considering that real estate hasn't exactly appreciated over the past
3 years.
The only "buys" in that age range would be relocation properties where
the seller HAS to sell and is either going to absorb the hit or will be
reimbursed by their employer.
We found that builders were more willing to accept a smaller profit
on new construction, probably just to keep afloat and ride out the
current economy.
That was our experience during the February -> June time frame when
we were looking at existing construction. New construction seemed
to be a better alternative in our eyes.
|
128.129 | How far can you reasonably go with fixing up? | SNDPIT::SMITH | Smoking -> global warming! :+) | Mon Dec 03 1990 17:44 | 13 |
| We are kinda looking at new housing, and after looking at a couple of
'pre-ruined' places, I had a question:
Since the 3 criteria for selecting a house are Location, Location, and
Location, what if find a not-so-great house in a great area? What
would it cost to rip out all the floor coverings, appliances, fixtures,
doors, and windows in (say) a 4br house and start over with new stuff,
including paint/wallpaper? Is this worth doing? Has anyone ever
removed a vinyl-lined inground pool? I really doubt it would be worth
buying a house only to knock it down, but some of the ones we've seen
it would be easier...
Willie
|
128.130 | Buy a new house, fix up the old, or spin. | LVSB::GAGNON | Iraqnophobia...catch it! | Mon Dec 03 1990 18:27 | 13 |
| If you really like the location, and you can get the place for a
steal, then I'd go with fixing it up. Someone I know did just that.
They literally gutted the entire inside of the house, replaced
everthing including 95% of the plumbing, all the electrical, installed
a new heating system, new sheetrock, refinished the floor in 4 of
the 8 rooms and replaced the other 4.
I was told that after doing almost all the work themselves (not
the heating or electrical, but did do the plumbing.) the bill was
estimated at right around $32,000. The house has been appraised
at $60,000 more then they paid for it.
Kevin
|
128.131 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Dec 03 1990 19:11 | 13 |
| A friend of mine bought a crumbling old Victorian in the Historical district
in Sudbury for less than the price of the land about 20 years ago. Yes, less.
The house was in such bad shape (abandoned for years, all the ceilings
collapsed, etc), that he convinced the owners that it was worth less than the
land would be if it were vacant, since he'd have to pay to demolish it. After
he bought it, he decided to save the house. He's probably put about $70-100K
more into it over the years he's owned it, fixing it up a room at a time.
It's currently valued at over half a million dollars.
Extreme, but you get the point.
Paul
|
128.132 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Dec 04 1990 12:56 | 11 |
| I vote for buying an existing house and fixing it up. It depends on
what you want though. I like a house that has a lived in feeling,
and you just don't get that in a new house. Some call it "character."
You can also get a vast array of features that you just can't get in a
new house, unless you are prepared to spend mega-amounts for custom
carpentry. It may take a while to find what you want, but there are
*so* many houses on the market today your choices are pretty broad.
Others favor the brand-new, antiseptic pristineness of a new house.
Your choice.
|
128.133 | Location, etc. | CLOSET::DUM::T_PARMENTER | Boogie in the Dark | Tue Dec 04 1990 15:24 | 4 |
| The worst house in a great neighborhood is one of the best buys in real
estate, as a couple of previous replies show. The value is depressed because
of the comparison with all the other houses, but the payback after
renovation is also greater and for the same reason.
|
128.134 | | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Tue Dec 04 1990 15:49 | 26 |
| Assuming that I can get a builder to build me a new house for
$60 sq. ft.. and I verify these land prices. These figures
seem to point out that building is a better deal:
2300 sq. ft. @60 sq. ft. == $138000
price of foreclosed land 1 acre == $15000
well & septic == $10000
---------
$163000
My brother-in-law's owns a company that does surveying, septic system
design etc. so these thing should be free. I might even getter a
better deal that 60 dollars per sq. ft.. If it 50 dollars a square foot
the total price would be 140000. I really doubt from looking thru
the real estate magazines that I could get a 2300 sq. ft. house for
anywhere near this price. I have gone out with a realtor once 6 months
ago and the prices were still crazy. For instance a tiny 24X32 ft.
cape was 140000 in the Milford MA area. I have been reading the
real estate magazines and I haven't seen one house that is this
big and cheap. Aside from foreclosed property or VTX HOMES I have to
agree with the previous note writer that it is better to build still.
|
128.135 | | MOOV01::S_JOHNSON | that does not compute, Will Robinson | Tue Dec 04 1990 16:04 | 12 |
| Also, think about the things not included in the 60/sf builder's price like...
landscaping, driveway paving, carpeting, appliances. And the fact that you'll
likely get cheap kitchen cabinets, appliances, woodwork, etc, unless you pay
extra...
And you won't have any trees within 50 feet of the house, since builders
knock them all down to make their job easier.....
You'll have to watch the builder like a hawk, to prevent him from cutting
corners, which they all do today.
|
128.136 | In what universe? | SNDPIT::SMITH | Smoking -> global warming! :+) | Wed Dec 05 1990 19:53 | 5 |
| re: .19
Where can you find an acre of land inside Rte. 495 for $15k?
Willie
|
128.137 | land outside 495 area. | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Thu Dec 06 1990 10:36 | 1 |
| The land is out in Ashburnham, Winchendon area..
|
128.138 | Leominster? | USEM::LMARINO | | Fri Dec 07 1990 12:08 | 10 |
| There is a development in Leominster that has Capes for 139K
and colonials starting at about 142K. Its only about 1600 sq. ft
of living space. It comes complete with appliances, carpets, lino,
etc. It abuts conservation land.
My cousin just built a beautiful home out in Templeton for a steal
no where even near 140K and about 2 acres of land. He did a lot
of the work himself though.
|
128.139 | more info on cousin | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Fri Dec 07 1990 14:09 | 6 |
| Did your cousin buy the land and then act as a general contractor or
did he buy the land and hire a builder? What type of work can you
do yourself and still get a cert. of occupancy.. I really wouldn't
mine doing flooring, trim, painting etc. after I move in.
Thanks
|
128.140 | General | FDCV06::MARINO | | Fri Dec 07 1990 17:42 | 10 |
| I believe he bought the land and acted as a general contractor.
He is a plumber so he knows quite a few people invloved in
building homes. I don't think it matters who does the work
as long as you get it inspected by the building inspector, but
that is a novices guess. I remember he worked on his house
during the weekends. I only see him on holidays so I don't
know the exact step-by-step process. But my roommate is his
sister so I will check with her and see if she knows more.
|
128.141 | thanks | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Fri Dec 07 1990 18:13 | 1 |
| thank's
|
128.142 | Wish I had time to write more.... | MARX::SULLIVAN | We have met the enemy, and they is us! | Mon Dec 10 1990 15:30 | 29 |
|
There are good points in all of the replies that have been mentioned so
far. I think I can add a few things...
If you are really commited to building your own special home, do it. It
is not more expensive. Not less either. I finished building my dream home two
years ago. It ended up less expensive than a contractors spec house but only
because I did much of the general contracting and work myself.
If you could find one already built, or partially built, that meets
your needs I'm sure you could get a great deal too. There are a lot of
contractors/banks in trouble right now who would be willing to make almost
any deal. I live in Bolton, MA and there are several LARGE homes that have
been on the market for a long time. Many of them unfinished.
We took our house far enough to get an occupancy permit. We did not
have carpets, the walls were unpainted plaster, and none of the molding/finish
woodwork was done. Nor was there any landscaping. We were able to get a fixed
rate mortgage. Not all banks will let you. But ours didn't seem to have an
issue. And the mortgage has been sold on the secondary mortgage market.
This was at the height of the building boom. It may be different now
but I would say it might be easier. With many banks holding tons of defaulted
property (homes and land), they may be more willing to bend their strick
rules about completion if you have a good credit history and they can write
a good loan in these tough times. Of course, they may not be willing to add
to the housing inventory either.
Mark
|
128.143 | what he said... | SALEM::LAYTON | | Thu Dec 13 1990 12:17 | 6 |
| I agree with .27, we did the same thing, no carpets, landscaping, etc.
The cost, as .27 mentioned, will be about the same. What you save on
general contracting you'll spend on upgraded material. My mortgage has
not been sold on the secondary market, though.
Carl
|
128.144 | how much for sq. ft. | AQUA::CHINNASWAMY | | Thu Dec 13 1990 15:32 | 5 |
| I don't if I should I ask this question here but here goes.
Could you please tell me what you payed approx. for sq. ft.
of house.
thanks
|
128.145 | Cheap land is the key | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Thu Dec 13 1990 15:54 | 13 |
| Looking over these replies, it seems that all the cases where building is
cheaper than buying involve *low* land prices. When I was buying, I got
my house for roughly twice the price of the lowest priced acceptable lot
within the area I was interested in. I priced spec built new construction
-- it would have been at least 50% more expensive. A modular would have
saved some money, but not enough. Being my own general contractor wasn't
an option for various reasons. Of course, I'm talking about $80K to
$100K/acre lots (2.5 years ago), not far outside I-495. If you can live
far enough out to be able to get land cheap, or find a cheap foreclosed
lot, the balance changes.
Enjoy,
Larry
|
128.146 | Land is the most volatile factor | EISKPS::SLATTERY | | Fri Dec 14 1990 19:23 | 51 |
| Re: .30
Whether land price is low is dependent on what the market is. I agree that
land prices can and do vary more than construction costs.
From my travels looking over the last few months (and choosing new construction
in Westford, MA) I conclude that
1) Land prices are down about 35% from two years ago. The hard evidence here
is a lot in Westford that I almost bought. It listed for 89k, the
lot next door sold for about 130k two years ago.
2) New construction prices are down about 15% over the same period (this
is through comparing the cost of my home to an identical home built
two years ago.
3) If we roll these two factors together, lands "contribution" to the lower
price is greater than the construction itself. I attribute this to
the fact that land generally has no cost basis (i.e. a builder has
to pay for materials and labor, land for sale is generally paid for
and thus has no "cost" to the seller)
I disagree with the conclusion that, as I understand it, you have to get the
land at a foreclosure auction in order to make building more attractive. As
I have said, I feel I got a better financial deal (not a lot better) with new
construction than I could have with existing.
This conclusion assumes that the existing home owner is no more motivated than
the builder. My builder is sound financially (which is rare today) but is
realistic about the market. I relate this attitude to an existing home owner
that wants to sell for a "fair" price and will wait a reasonable amount of
time to do so.
The conclusion that I draw is that new construction is comparable with existing
homes under the same circumstances. (i.e. foreclosed land (at 15k) that is
built on will be FAR cheaper than an existing home with an unmotivated seller
and comparable with an existing home with a motivated seller...the same is true
on the reverse side.)
If someone looked at this 2 or 3 years ago it may have been different since the
builders may not have been hungry for business.
The bottom line, after all the points, is that you have to look for yourself
and decide for yourself. We personally like new construction so my views are
biased in that direction.
Ken Slattery
|
128.147 | | KOALA::DIAMOND | No brag, Just fact. | Mon Dec 17 1990 13:28 | 13 |
|
My wife and I have been looking for land for a couple of years now, and
for our observation of the Southern NH area land prices have not
dropped at all. People arn't as desperate to sell land as they are
homes. Usually the people who have land to sell own it outright, they
don't have a $1k mortgage payment eating in the pockets every month.
Raw land in NH is going for $9k - $50k. It was the same price for over
3 years.
Right now there are much better deals on existing homes then there is
raw land.
Mike
|
128.148 | WOW -2B$ | CSDNET::DICASTRO | Global Re-leaf! | Tue Dec 18 1990 14:41 | 7 |
| FYI.current state of affairs.
On NPR this morning, I hear that the real estate value on MAss. has
dropped 2 billiojn dollars in the last 2 (?) years. A 25% reduction
in value.
FWIW/bob
|
128.149 | perhaps my arithmetic is wrong? | VMSSG::NICHOLS | It ain't easy being green | Tue Dec 18 1990 15:19 | 14 |
| I remember hearing the report on PBS TV(?) last night. I too was STRUCK
by the percentage of 25% however
I think you are missing one or more zeroes
2 billion=25% ----> 8 billion = 100%
Lets assume avg home worth 100k
8 billion divided by one hundred thousand =
8,000,000,000/100,000=8,000 homes
I believe 8000 homes must be incorrect by at least a factor of 10.
(there must be 1000 homes in my town alone, and there are 451
(whatever) citys and towns in Massachusetts
|
128.150 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Tue Dec 18 1990 16:53 | 3 |
| > -< perhaps my arithmetic is wrong? >-
Yep. Should be 80,000. Still too low.
|
128.18 | Guidelines for material costs? | MEIS::TOWNSEND | Erik S. Townsend (DTN) 247-2436 | Tue Mar 05 1991 13:29 | 23 |
| A few of the (old) replies touched on this, but a more current answer would
be useful.
I'm interested in the cost of MATERIALS to build a house. For instance,
given the usaul $75 - $85/ft prices (before the recession hit, anyway)
for finished living area, what's the material cost?
I'm asking because I have thoughts of DIY'ing a vacation house over several
years of work. I'm thinking of something like a 1500 sf house. The land,
well, and septic are already paid for. I'm guessing that by the time I pay
a little more (not getting contractor discounts on some things) it ought
to cost a total of about $25 - $30/foot (i.e. $38k - $45k) by the time the
house is finished. Obviously, any work I contract out would be more. Am
I in the right ballpark?
Also, any rough guidelines to use to determine how much a builder ought to
charge to "shell in" a house? I'm talking framing, roof including shingles,
sheathing but no siding. No electrical, plumbing, heating, etc. Just enough
to get it weathertight.
Thanks in advance.
Erik
|
128.19 | Shop Around | ODIXIE::RAMSEY | Rappellers do in on cliffs | Tue Mar 05 1991 13:56 | 8 |
| If you do buy your own materials, check with all the local suppliers
first. Tell them up front that you are building a house and you are
going to buy all the matierials from them. Most places will give you a
discount because of the volume you would buy building a house. Get
deals arranged with *all* the local suppliers. They don't have to know
that you may buy some supplies from store X and some from store Y.
That way you can shop the sales with your discount and pick and choose
the quality of items based on each stores strengths.
|
128.20 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Mar 05 1991 16:54 | 11 |
| As a very rough guideline, figure that a contractor's cost is about 40% labor,
40% materials, and 20% overhead and profit. The labor/materials ratio is
slightly different for each building trade, but they average out close to the
same. The overhead and profit is the most variable. In boom times, this can be
much higher than 20%. In hard times, it can nearly disappear.
Given that you usually can't purchase materials as cheaply as a contractor, if
you figure material costs at half of contractor's rates, you'll probably be
pretty close.
Paul
|
128.21 | One data point | NATASH::MARCHETTI | In Search of the Lost Board | Wed Mar 06 1991 11:17 | 9 |
| Three years ago, a contractor gave me a bid for adding a floor to my
house (1000 sq ft). The "complete" price was $85K. When I regained
consciouseness, I asked him for a "shell" bid. That came in at $45K
and included rough electrical and rough plumbing for one bath.
Goes to show you what finish work (especially plumbing! 8-( ) goes
for.
Bob
|
128.22 | framing estimates for house shell | USMFG::JKRUPER | | Thu Mar 07 1991 19:20 | 11 |
| Three years ago I was quoted a price of $4.00 - $5.00 per sq/ft
for labor in framing a house (ranch, colonial, etc.). This included
installing the windows, exterior doors and roofing. All materials
were not part of the quote. Given you're planning to build a 1500
sq/ft house, the labor for framing (house shell) should be around
+/- $6500. There are many framers out there looking for work.
Don't
just go with the first estimate, get at least three or four.
|
128.151 | Construction makes my house *SHAKE*! | BCSE::WEIER | Patty, DTN 381-0877 | Fri Apr 05 1991 13:06 | 55 |
| I'm not sure if this really belongs in this notesfile, but I couldn't
think of a better place for it ....
Across the street from my house, they are doing construction, building
houses, and (starting Wednesday), adding a small road. This morning
our whole house was shaking A LOT. When I looked out, there was a
tractor w/ a roller-type thing driving back and forth where the road is
going to be. Everytime he drove over a particular section of the
'road' the house would start shaking.
We've always suspected that there's a huge slab of ledge from about
that same area and under our house, because occassionally they'd drive
heavy machinery over that area of ground (over the past few years), and
the back of our house would tremble.
THIS is UNBELIEVABLE!! I went out to talk to them to make SURE that
they realized the impact they were having, and they told me that it was
(something like) a vibrating compactor, and the thing weighed 20 tons
and we were bound to feel some vibration. Vibration I can live w/, but
this is the SHAKES! My next door neighbor came out when she saw me out
there, and apparantly she's feeling it a bit worse than us - all her
pictures are crooked, and a couple things have jumped off the counter.
The construction workers told us not to worry - they'd only be doing
this for a couple more DAYS!
I went across the street and talked to the guy who owns the land and is
running this whole thing, and he basically laughed at me, and said if I
had a problem, I should contact the City because they're the ones that
make them compact the fill for the road. He also said our foundation
should be ok. SHOULD??????!?!??!
It worries me that they don't realize what we're feeling, and no one
was interested in going into either house to experience what we're
experiencing. When I was talking to the construction guys, the tractor
was no more than 50 feet from me, and I could feel a tremble in the
ground, but that's it. It's **MUCH** **MUCH** worse in my house!!!
We're concerned that the walls might crask (does plaster board crack?)
or that the foundation might crack or that the house might settle more
and cause either of the above. I'm not opposed to the new development,
but I'm INCREDIBLY opposed to someone hurting my house!!
Has anyone ever dealt with anything like this?? Is there anything that
I can do? Will everything REALLY be ok?? If it was just tremors or
shudders, it might not be so bad, but this is SHAKES through the whole
house - you CERTAINLY could never sleep through it - I thought it was
an earthquake!
My other concern also, is that if there IS ledge there, then everytime
someone drives down the road, will our house shake then, too??
*HELP!!*
THANKS!
Patty
|
128.152 | just a few thoughts from a novice ... | RICKS::SHERMAN | ECADSR::SHERMAN 225-5487, 223-3326 | Fri Apr 05 1991 13:29 | 6 |
| I think I would make a call to whomever is insuring your house. After
all, if you have damage, won't they be paying for it? Also, you might
contact the City if only to keep communication lines open and in case
this winds up in court.
Steve
|
128.153 | | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Fri Apr 05 1991 15:11 | 4 |
| Yes, call the city, e.g. the building inspector. Maybe you can ask the
building inspector to come out to your house while they are working?
Larry
|
128.154 | THANKS!! At least we're covered! | BCSE::WEIER | Patty, DTN 381-0877 | Fri Apr 05 1991 18:25 | 31 |
| Well, I called my homeowners insurance, and no one is sure what to do.
They said if the walls/foundation should crack, then it would be
covered providing it was accidental cause and not just settling. I
asked how we could prove that if we had to, which is about when
everyone ran out of ideas. The best ideas so far have been;
Take pictures of the inside of the house, walls/foundation etc.
Send a registered letter to the town, the contractors and the guy who
owns the land just to raise the point (of course by the time they get
that, they'll be done!)
Pray a lot (-:
The lady at the insurance co said that if the foundation should leak,
that the fact that we've lived there for 6 years and it never leaked
before should be proof enough that 'they' caused the problem, and that
my ins. co. would cover it.
GAWD I hope they remember me if anything happens!!!
THANKS!
Patty
p.s. I did call the city .... I couldn't get past the lady answering
the phone, who told me ....
if it's bothering you, call the police!
ARGH!!!!!!!!!!
|
128.155 | Avenues to try | HPSTEK::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Fri Apr 05 1991 19:07 | 11 |
| You live in a city, you should call your city councilor, the city
engineer, the building inspector and the chairman of the planning
board.
You can get their numbers at City Hall. Sometimes these people are
more easily reached at night.
In my city, the city councilor is the most effective person to call.
Your mileage may vary.
Elaine
|
128.156 | _DON'T_ call the building inspector | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Wed Apr 10 1991 12:43 | 10 |
| re: suggestions to call the building inspector
I don't know what kind of building inspectors you have in your towns, but I
have known several who would be the absolute _LAST_ persons you would want
involved in a situation like this, as they would feel it their civic duty
to cite you for some violations of code in your house' construction. Calling
councilmen, etc. should be a good idea as their interests differ from the
building inspector's.
-Jack
|
128.306 | Buying a fix-me-up house... | CRAIGA::SCHOMP | The Lone Ranger | Mon Jul 15 1991 16:57 | 50 |
| Hi Folks,
Trying to buy a starter house with a limited budget is tough, even
though the market is supposed to be getting a little better!
Our situation is that we are looking at a house right now (in our
price range) that has years of living potential for us (and our
plans of children in the future too). It is a four bedroom, 1.5 bath
house with large rooms. It has a big kitchen, living room, dining
room, 2 car garage and big basment. It has a fireplace in the living
room and in the basement. Work needing to be done:
- kitchen cabnets needs new doors
- kitchen counter tops needs to be replaced
- kitchen floor needs to be replaced (linolium?)
- hardwood floors throughout the rest of the whole house
needs to be sanded and resurfaced
- all the windows need new putty in the frames
- both bathrooms needs work: fixtures, cabnets, some wall
rebuilding, etc.
- the house has no gutters and the basement does seem
to have had some water in the past.
- the metal entry pull up door to the basement from the
outside isn't there any more and is covered over by wood!
- the basement is a mess and needs *lots* of cleaning up...
This is stuff we can see and not including stuff we can't see...
Oh... one other thing... there is electrical boxes and wires all
over the garage and alot of wiring has been done in the basement.
It seems that someone who had been there was really into electrical
work. I do know that the house is 30 something years old and owned
by an older single woman who didn't do much up-keep work (the house
is an estate house). Finished off, I think the place would be great
but it does need alot of work.
My wife and I don't really know how to do home improvement work
other than painting etc, but are willing to learn and aren't put
off by doing the work. What sort of work could we do? What sort of
work should we definately not do? What sort of questions should we
ask about the house even before we buy it? What sort of things can
you look for to point to possible big expensive work just waiting
to happen to you?
Also, does anyone have any rule of thumb ideas for how you can value
a house like this and what your offer on it should be? It should keep
in mind a top dollar value you want to pay after all repairs are done.
Thanks for any help,
Craig.
|
128.307 | | FLOWER::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Mon Jul 15 1991 17:34 | 15 |
| Re: .3
Wow!!! Lots of good questions. I'll try some.
Until I had bought a house,I didn't own a hammer. Now,I have alot of
tools. Attitude is everything toward fix up.
I would check the condition of the things that you are not "likely" to
do..i.e. Condition of foundation,sills,roof. Check for water damage
and resulting bugs,as these could be big time money sinks.
Check the plumbing and wiring. Whats the size of the main supply?
These are the area's where you can spend alot of money.
Marc H.
|
128.308 | | POBOX::KAPLOW | Set the WAYBACK machine for 1982 | Mon Jul 15 1991 21:00 | 4 |
| Pay the bucks and have a licensed inspector go thru the entire
house. Have him list everything wrong, and estimates of repair
costs. It's the best insurance you can have on an old fixer-uper
like this one. Only then can you decide if the price is right.
|
128.309 | | ELWOOD::LANE | | Tue Jul 16 1991 11:33 | 25 |
| Taking a quick shot at it, in order of importance based on repair cost:
Check for rot and termites - especially sills. Bugs can be got rid of but
the damage that's been done is _very_ expensive to fix.
attic ventilation and/or roof rot
basement water - if the basement is any kind of living space
sewage problems - septic tank? slow drains?
uneven or loose floors
windows - fixing is not bad, replacing is.
the bathtub. Any leaks, problems?
plaster/lath vs. sheetrock walls. The former are a lot more
difficult to work with.
Not a complete list and subject to revision but it's a start. I didn't list
electrical because I don't consider it much of a problem - I'm sure others
consider it differently.
Mickey.
|
128.310 | A few considerations .. read, read, read .. | AHIKER::EARLY | Bob Early, Digital Services | Tue Jul 16 1991 11:49 | 79 |
| re: 4287.3 -< Buying a fix-me-up house... >-
Not to echo, but to underscore ... get a very good House Inspector, and
be there when he does his inspection. Be up front with him and tell
him you need to know the costs of doing this stuff, and what codes
need to be met.
>is stuff we can see and not including stuff we can't see...
>Oh... one other thing... there is electrical boxes and wires all
>over the garage and a lot of wiring has been done in the basement.
>It seems that someone who had been there was really into electrical
Neither wiring nor plumbing is any big deal, but certain rules
MUST be followed. Does the city where its located permit DIYrs to
work on electrical / plumbing / structural repairs ?
I'm on my second "old" house, my first being a 6 room 1900's
house in Nashua; my current one being closer to 150 years old.
>My wife and I don't really know how to do home improvement work
>other than painting etc, but are willing to learn and aren't put
>off by doing the work. What sort of work could we do?
Depends on how handy you want to be. Mind getting your hands dirty ?
>What sort of work should we definitely not do?
Personally, I won't do "waste" plumbing, simply because I am afraid
of a mistake. However, I did have a "waste line", installed by a
professional, fall out of the wall and dump waste all over the floor.
(where waste=sewer line)
>What sort of questions should we ask about the house even before we
buy it?
There are several books in the library, with mundane titles like:
What questions to ask before buying a house, how to fix up old homes,
buying 'handyman specials', etc.
>What sort of things can you look for to point to possible big
expensive work just waiting to happen to you?
#1: The Sill !! The sill is what the house sits on. I had an real
estate agent point out in one home that the sill was an 4 x 4, and
would probably cost less than $100 at the lumberyard. The House
inspector pointed out that a sill can cost "more than $1500" to
replace, and is not a job for an amateur. There are stories about
houses "falling down" while jacked up.
#2: City house or country:
Even in Leominster, a city of over 35,000 people; Nashua with over
100,000 people; some houses still have Septic systems !
A bad septic system can be very pricey .. around $5,000 ? In some
towns; the Septic System Inspector just happens to be the local
Septic System Contractor. So .. if you hire someone from outside the
town, expect major delays for inspections.
>Also, does anyone have any rule of thumb ideas for how you can value
>a house like this and what your offer on it should be?
I think the modest rule of thumb is to take the "market value if all
fixed up"; estimate the cost of fixing it up, subtract that from the
first value. The offer price is then some number between the high
and low; depending on how much you want that house.
Talk to some Realtors about 'how to estimate'. Keep in mind the
demand for 'handyman specials' is lower than those all fixed up, or
just needing cosmetic 'fixing up' (paint, linoleum, etc).
_bobE
|
128.311 | Handy-man specials not for everyone | HPSTEK::HAUSRATH | Too many projects, not enough time | Tue Jul 16 1991 15:49 | 15 |
|
One thing that must be kept in mind when buying a Handyman special is
that banks will not loan you money based on a future value, but only on
the present value (especially in todays credit market). Repair costs
must come out of your pocket up front, with the potential to reclaim
the added equity with a second mortgage or refinancing at a later date.
Unless you are cash rich, it's not a good idea to buy a first home in need
of serious repairs based on simply finances. Usually with your first
house you have enough trouble scraping up the down payment and closing
costs alone. With a H.M. special you'd be adding the cost of needed
repairs to the up-front money you will need.
/Jeff
|
128.71 | | SAMUEL::MARRA | | Thu Jan 02 1992 13:05 | 26 |
128.72 | get it inspected first, and get estimates | CADSYS::HECTOR::RICHARDSON | | Thu Jan 02 1992 14:18 | 12 |
| Before you put any money into such a deal, I think you better get an
inspector to look over this unfinished house real carefully, and then
take the results and have a couple of heating and plumbing contractors
go over everything carefully and supply written estimates of what it
will take to make this house habitable. I expect the bank will want
the same info itself before writing a mortgage on a house that isn't
complete enough for you to move in. Of course, it could turn out to be
a real bargain, but I wouldn't put any money down on the house until I
had spent a bit of money on these inspections to find out what I was
getting into.
/Charlotte
|
128.73 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Thu Jan 02 1992 15:43 | 50 |
| RE: .19
I agree emphatically with .20. "Half finished" can mean lots of
different things. For example, does the well need to have pipe and
electric run from the house to the well head? Is there and
expansion tank and controls in place? You could have a $500-1000
DIFFERENCE in this one item (well) depending on the exact
situation. And depending on the condition of the water in the well
you could spend anywhere from $0 to several thousand for
filtering/purifying equipment.
Same for hot water -- are pipes in place so that only a heater is
needed? And for space heating -- is ductwork and/or radiators in
place, ready for a furnace to be connected?
No one can give you a good estimate without actually looking at
the home. Also, you may find it is difficult to get a firm, fixed
price estimate. There may well be areas that look like work is
done, but when you actually go to hook something up you find that
work is missing or that it is done wrong and has to be torn out
and re-done.
Presumably the work was abandoned because someone -- builder or
owner -- had financial problems. It is likely that these financial
problems left hidden problems in this unfinished home. You'd be
sort of buying a pig in a poke, not knowing how the project got to
where it is. I recommend caution.
Are you planing to do any of the work yourself? If not, maybe you
can bargain with the bank. You might be able to persuade them to
finish the home and sell it to you for a fixed maximum cost. Keep
in mind that right now this home is a total loss for the bank. It
may well be that the bank is willing to deal in order to re-coop
some/most of their loss as quickly as they can.
At the very least I think you'd want to have the reasonable
expectation, based on the best possible estimates, that the price
you pay plus the cost of finishing the home doesn't much exceed
80% of what a similar, finished home in the same area would bring
in today's real estate market.
Oh, yes. Check with the local building department to be sure that
the home isn't involved in any code or zoning violations. If the
local building ispector is a decent person you may find out more
than the bank would like you to know.
As I said, caution is called for. But, at the same time, this may
be a great opportunity. If everything checks out you may be able
to end up with a real bargain. But be careful. Keep asking
yourself why this great bargain has sat empty for several years.
|
128.74 | | SAMUEL::MARRA | | Fri Jan 03 1992 13:22 | 19 |
| To help clear up some of your questions, and mine...
The baseboards are all in place, all the pipes appear to lead to the basement.
All the wastewater plumbing appears to run all the way to the basement.
All the walls are complete
All the windows are complete
All the doors are complete
All the external plumbimg appears to be complete
All the kitchen cabinets are in place, only no appliances or fixtures
The well is in place, and a pipe and wire exit and enter the house, there's
a spicket on the pipe entering the house; i haven't checked it yet.
The builder stopped and waited for a buyer before putting in the finishing
touches. Then he lost it. The house appears to be of EXCELLENT craftsmanship.
I'll be looking at it next weekend in great detail.
thanks,
.dave.
|
128.75 | | WUMBCK::FOX | | Fri Jan 03 1992 14:55 | 16 |
| I've made offers on incomplete houses before, and yes, inspections
and professional estimates are critical. I'm surprised the bank
hasn't already done so (or they have, but aren't providing the
info).
Have a few GC's come in and give you a price for the all the work
completed. That will be higher than asking subs to price out their
own pieces. Everyone out there is dying for work, so you'll have
no problem getting people to come out. Once you're satisfied all
required work is accounted for, prepare your offer to the bank.
Naturally, use your highest estimates to yield the lowest offer.
Make the offer contingent upon an inspection not turning up work
undiscovered by the contractors, code violations, zoning violations,
anything you can think of.
Oh yeah, why has this house been sitting for 3 years?
John
|
128.76 | probably in a recession area - like where I live! | CADSYS::HECTOR::RICHARDSON | | Fri Jan 03 1992 15:53 | 10 |
| I had simply assumed that the unfinished house was somewhere in New
England, or some other area in the grips of the recession - it took my
neighbor almost a year to sell a completely finished almost-new house
(much larger and fancier than my place, and on more land, but not a
mansion by any means). And he was lucky! In this case, though, it is
the builder rather than first owner who went broke, so I guess I would
feel more confident that the existing work was probably done reasonably
properly - and I would still get it inspected, etc.
/Charlotte
|
128.77 | might be interesting to find out | WUMBCK::FOX | | Fri Jan 03 1992 16:05 | 9 |
| True, a year is nothing these days with a conventional sale.
However bank-owned, or distressed property is either dumped,
or sold at auction before too long. If the builder had the
means to keep the loan up to date, that would explain why the
bank didn't move on it sooner, but why wouldn't the builder
also try to complete it if he was financially able? It would
certainly be easier to sell that way.
John
|
128.78 | | BGTWIN::dehahn | 98...don't be late | Mon Jan 06 1992 11:25 | 13 |
|
If the owner went Ch. 11 or worse Ch. 7 then he may not have had a choice
whether or not to finish the house...it may have been siezed by the bank
Re: .dave.
The well pump may be ok, but the seals could be shot or it may have been hit by
lightning. How much a new one will cost depends on the type of pump and the size
and depth of the well; this could range from $200 or so for a jet pump to over
$800 for a submersible for an exceptionally deep well. Add labor to this, plus
you didn't mention if the well controls were there, add another couple hundred.
CdH
|
128.79 | | SAMUEL::MARRA | | Mon Jan 06 1992 15:40 | 15 |
| Thanks for the information. Saturday I'll bring my camcorder with me and
try to capture as much of it as I can. Then I'll make a list if what I think
it needs. Then i'll talk to some GC friends and see what they say, then
bring 1-2 of them out there...... Actually I think I only need someone to
hook up a furnace, HW, Well, and waste. I can do the kitchen myself.
I'll probably need to get a quote to run the LP gas since I want it to run on
LP gas (no natural in the area)....
Could be fun.
.dave.
Yes the house is in the southern NH area. It's been sitting for this long for
the obvious reasons.
|
128.80 | I'd call the town about it too - just in case | WUMBCK::FOX | | Mon Jan 06 1992 16:31 | 17 |
| >bring 1-2 of them out there...... Actually I think I only need someone to
>hook up a furnace, HW, Well, and waste. I can do the kitchen myself.
>Yes the house is in the southern NH area. It's been sitting for this long for
>the obvious reasons.
What's not so obvious to me is why it wouldn't have been completed
years ago, if that's all it needed.
Assume the builder was solvent, but hurting. He needs to sell this
house to keep his business alive. If it needed so little work to
make it much more marketable, wouldn't he do it? However, if it
needed *a lot* more work - more than he could afford, he probably
wouldn't be able to do it.
Now assume for whatever reason, the bank took it over. Would they
sit on it for 3 years? Heck no. They'd either dump it quickly, or
get someone to finish it and sell it like any other house.
John
|
128.81 | | SAMUEL::MARRA | | Mon Jan 06 1992 19:23 | 24 |
128.82 | Long delays and bankruptcy? | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Tue Jan 07 1992 09:48 | 28 |
| I believe .29 contained the key piece of information here - the
bank foreclosed in September. I can relate this to an attempt
I made to purchase an "almost completed" house in Nashua about
two years ago.
The builder was in Chapter 11, undergoing reorganization, trying
to get back on his feet. He was finishing and selling a few
houses in various subdivisions he owned. We saw a house in Nashua
which was within four weeks of completion - plastering was done,
only needed finish electrical, plumbing, and cabinets. To make a
LONG (5 month) story short, eventually the builder was forced into
Chapter 7 by the bankruptcy court because some parties to the
proceedings were squabbling and couldn't be satisified with the
builder's plans for completing/selling the subdivisions.
About six months later the bank tried to auction off the two houses
and subdivision; no buyers. About four months after that the bank
did finish the two houses and sold both.
The key point here is that EVERY real estate agent with whom we were
in contact with stressed they would NEVER get involved with anything
relating to bankruptcies again, unless and until someone obtained
a clear title to the property. There were just too many hassles.
Two years bankruptcy court in Manchester had a several month
backlog. I would imagine it is far worse today, so I can well
imagine how a house could stay in the described stage for several
years if bankruptcy is involved.
|
128.83 | inspect, inspect, inspect | WUMBCK::FOX | | Tue Jan 07 1992 11:37 | 39 |
128.84 | Yes I will Inspect, Inspect, Inspect... | SAMUEL::MARRA | | Tue Jan 07 1992 13:39 | 13 |
| This is great, i'm getting lots of usefull information.
Some more info on this house. It was listed by a realty company up until
the day of the Auction, and then was listed by the bank that bought it
at the auction; the price was reduced... So the builder was still trying
to sell it.
I have another question. The house owed back taxes. When the bank completed
the auction, did they have to pay those back taxes? Or will I eventually have
to pay them out of my pocket; and yes, i'll check with the town to see
as well, just wondered if anyone knew the answer.
.dave.
|
128.85 | Yes, you would be liable for back taxes | SYORPD::DEEP | Bob Deep @SYO, DTN 256-5708 | Tue Jan 07 1992 15:26 | 4 |
| Typically, a tax search is required to secure a mortgage. Even if you aren't
getting a mortgage, you should do the tax search.
Bob
|
128.86 | back taxes are not deductable, btw | WUMBCK::FOX | | Tue Jan 07 1992 16:24 | 11 |
| On who pays the back taxes... In a situation like yours, I'd say the
bank would. However make sure it spelled out in the offer, and at
closing. Buying from a bank is more conventional than at auction,
so you'd work it where the taxes were pro-rated depending on the
closing date, imo.
If you bought at auction, you would probably be liable for back
taxes. I've seen cases at auction where the bank and the buyer
split the back taxes, however. It all depends on the terms and
conditions of the sale.
John
|
128.87 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Tue Jan 07 1992 17:33 | 29 |
| You can check on back taxes due at the office of the town (or
city) tax collector. I understand that this is public information.
You should have no problem getting it.
Normally any back taxes will be paid by the closing agent and will
reduce the proceeds that go to the seller.
Any unpaid taxes are the responsibility of the current owner, the
bank in this case, unless you agree to pay them. Nevertheless, the
town will go after the property rather than the previous owner if
the taxes are unpaid. Thats just the way the world works.
If there are taxes due on the property, the seller CANNOT give you
clear title. It is almost certain that your purchase agreement
will require that you be given clear title. (But READ the damn
thing all the way through to be sure!!!!) Hence the taxes will
almost certainly be paid at (or before) closing.
Which brings up the question of TITLE INSURANCE. This sounds like
a case where it would be worth your while to consider purchasing
title insurance for your benefit. If you take a mortgage on the
property, the lender will almost always insist that you buy title
insurance for the lender's benefit. The added cost to cover you
too, is not much -- in the range of $100-150, I think, depending
on the value of the property.
The first house I owned turned out to have unpaid taxes that
WEREN'T caught in the title search. I made one call to the title
insurance company and this was no longer my problem.
|
128.88 | Get an inspection from the one who'll lose if he's wrong | KAYAK::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Tue Jan 07 1992 18:53 | 10 |
| re .20,
In my experience from two of the inspectors who came recommended in
this conference, don't waste your money on an inspector. They're great at
spotting torn wallpaper and toilets that don't flush, useless on the
non-obvious. Find a good general contractor because this situation is out
of the league of the inspectors I've dealt with.
my $.02
-B
|
128.157 | What's wrong with this 1-year old house? | BROKE::RAM | Ram Srinivasan @NUO, Nashua | Fri Jan 31 1992 20:14 | 21 |
|
In the past members of this conference have requested and gotten
help from other members for information or advice. In this note,
I am asking for help of a slightly different nature, which I hope
none of you will consider improper (especially the mods!).
I purchased a new construction in Nashua a year ago and have to
shortly submit a year-end punch-list to the builder to fix things
wrong with the house. This is my last chance to get things done by the
builder. So far, we haven't found any real big things wrong - like
water in the basement or leaks, etc. What sort of things should I
be looking for ? Secondly, would any experienced members of this
conference be interested in poking through the house for possible
problems ? I am asking this of readers of this conference, because I
know that not only are many of you experienced in this stuff but
also enjoy this kind of thing.
If you would like to help, please send me mail at BROKE::RAM or
call me (DTN - 264-1231, home 603-888-7988). Thanks in advance.
(This note is being cross-posted REAL_ESTATE conference.)
|
128.158 | How about a real inspector | NICCTR::MILLS | | Tue Feb 04 1992 18:47 | 9 |
|
I actually heard almost this same question on AM talk radio Bruce
Williams. It was for a house that the warranty was going to be up. And
what the caller asked was should I hire an inspector. And Bruce
Williams said I never thought of that it sounds like a great Idea. I
think it would be a great Idea in your case also. I think some
inspection companys will warranty up to a year if they said something
is good and it wasn't.
|
128.159 | Design Assistance on proposed new house | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Wed Feb 12 1992 15:04 | 80 |
| Ok, folks.
I am asking the collective minds of this body to help us out. We are
house-hunting. We have looked at a place that has much of what we
want. However, there is one slight predicament. The house is built
very wierd. I have tried to show below the floor plan. Any thoughts
that you may have on how to change this (if it can be), would be
appreciated. Some guidelines:
- We are not against removing and relocating walls
- Additions are acceptable
- We would like a master bedroom, if possible
- We would like to end up with 3 bedrooms including master bedroom
Keeping the above in mind, can you help us think of how we might be
able to change the floor plan? We have already considered taking the
kitchen and extending it out onto the deck. The current master bedroom
is located in a loft portion of the house. This is the only upstairs
to this house. Also, there is a bathroom in the loft (shower, small
vanity, and toilet).
In the living room, the ceiling goes from a cathedral ceiling over the
fireplace to about 7 or 8 feet high over the outside wall (opposite the
fireplace).
The kitchen will need to be complete gutted and redone. We were
thinking we could push the kitchen wall out onto the deck and thus
double the width of the kitchen. This would leave alot of room to work
with in the kitchen. It would remove the extraneous door in the small
bedroom. We are not totally positive where the septic system is.
There is a possibility it is behind the house. If so, it makes things
harder. But, if not, we could put an L extension off the back of the
house. This could be where the bedrooms or whatever could go.
We thought about the ability to raise the roof and create a legitimate
second floor. But we can't totally vision this.
The kitchen has a door that leads to a sunken laundry room. The laundry
room then leads to the garage.
As houses go, this one is in somewhat tough shape. It doesn't really
have any character to it. The wiring will need to be checked and
possibly upgraded (it is at least 200 amp service). The wook trim
is nothing spectacular - it is average.
Any help you can give would be great.
Pictures are difficult in this medium, so please bear with me. Also,
the picture is not completely to scale (it is as close as I could
make it).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| | | | Cabinets | |
| | Bathroom | |--------------| --|
| | | Small Dining Area | |*|
| |-----/\------- (or whatever) \ Kitchen --|
| Bedroom | / \
| / | T &/
| \ Hallway |--------| |----------/o\-----|
| | |STAIR TO| | Deck # |
| | | CELLAR | | |
|--------------------------------- |--------| \ |
| | | | S | Door to |
| Little | Fireplace | | T | Deck |
| Nook |------------------ | A | / |
| | | I | Small | *********** |
| | R | | * D E C K * |
| | | Bedroom | *********** |
| | T | | |
| Living Room | O | | |
| | | | |
| L | | |
------------------------------/ \---------O-------------------------------------
Front F
Door T * = Fireplace with insert
(in kitchen)
& = Door to laundry room
and garage from kitchen
# = Atrium-style door to
Deck
|
128.160 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Wed Feb 12 1992 15:09 | 9 |
| From the base note, people might be wondering what we liked about the place.
Well, it has lots of room for animals (horses, dogs, etc.) It has a
building that would make a nice workshop for me. It has a barn that,
with work, will serve our needs. It has 14 acres (with the possibility
of another 13 acres). It has no neighbors to speak of. It has plenty
of horse riding trails. It has room to build an indoor arena, if we
decide to later. It is just the house that doesn't work.
Ed..
|
128.161 | start fresh - go modular | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Wed Feb 12 1992 16:01 | 22 |
| a few suggestions - free and worth every penny:
Consider tearing the place down and starting over with a modular
home. If the foundation is on good condition and is the right size a
modular house can be dropped onto it and made ready in 1-2 days!
The cost of this approach might even be comparable to whatever
renovations you might end up doing to "save" the old house. It there
anything about the old house that is worth saving?
I've seen modular house plans that start at $40k. Once the house is
up you would *never* know that it was factory built... unless you knew
construction and knew where to look inside the house.
You give no details on your foundation dimensions. What are they?
If we can assume that ripping out all of the walls and starting over is
an option, how big do you wnat your bedrooms to be? Are you even sure
that there is enough square footage to allow all of the rooms that you
want?
Mark
|
128.162 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Wed Feb 12 1992 16:13 | 23 |
| To be honest, tearing the house down was one option that I was considering.
I was afraid to mention it to my wife (you know how they can be). I have
no idea what it would cost to build a new house. If we could get the
place for a low-enough price, it would be worth doing major work.
I am not real excited about modular homes.
I am not real sure of the dimensions of the foundation. I have the paper
work at home. I will check. I know that the main house has a full
cellar, and the kitchen extension has a crawl space.
As you say, there is not a whole lot to say about this house. The
owner has had trouble selling it (for obvious reasons).
We are trying to get a feel for whether there is anything we could do
with the existing house. I was thinking if we could come up with
a final goal, and do it in stages, that it would be workable. Say,
putting an extension on first. Then, gutting the kitchen. Then
changing the living room. Etc.
Any ideas are open for discussion. Even tearing down the house.
Ed..
|
128.163 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Feb 12 1992 16:28 | 9 |
| Read "Mr. Blandings Builds His Dream House". Twice.
I agree that the current layout is very strange. I don't like the
walk-through dining area to get to the kitchen. You could do a "bump-out",
but I think the whole layout needs rethinking. Just be aware that you could
be letting yourself in for something that far exceeds your worst nightmares
for problems and expenses.
Steve
|
128.164 | | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Wed Feb 12 1992 17:01 | 19 |
| If you are not sure about modular homes, do yourself a favor and check
out the homeshow. I don't know how you formed your opinions on them but
they *really* are worth a close look. The modular home that they are
building today can be every bit as good as a stick build home. Often
times they are more sturdy because they must be build to withstand
shipping to the site. In addition they are built under controlled
conditions, (factory). Another factor to consider is that you have
*far* fewer hassles dealing with contractors.
I have some friends that put up an oversized cape. You would
*never* realize that this was a modular home from the outside! They
love the house.
You might find that you can get better quality at a lower price with
modular homes. I know I will be seriously considering one in the next
few years.
Mark
|
128.165 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Wed Feb 12 1992 17:23 | 11 |
| I will check out modular homes. In all honesty, I have had a low opinion
of them - not good quality, compromise on features, etc.
I will check them out, though. So, any more ideas?
Why would we be getting ourselves into such problems - as mentioned by an
earlier reply? What kinds of issues would we be running into? Knowing
these might make it possible for us to get the house cheap enough to
be willing to put up with the hassle for a couple of years.
Ed..
|
128.166 | looking for more infor | LEDS::MUNIZ | | Wed Feb 12 1992 18:11 | 19 |
|
Ed, How about some more information? Could you include a lay out of the loft
showing how its over laps the down stairs. Also could you say what your
feelings are about the down stair bedrooms are. Would you consider moving or
removing the fireplace? How do you feel about an open kitchen-dining area or
do you keep a close kitchen (closing off with doors).
I do like the idea of a modular home. If your short on cash (and who isn't)
or if you have a small family. Some places will sell you a setup where you buy
the down stair (one-two bed rooms,kitchen,living room and of cause a full bath)
and as your family grows or as you get more cash you can buy the up stair
(two-three bed rooms (good size master) and a full bath, the down living
become the new dining area and two down stair bed rooms become the new living
room and you use the old roof). But if your looking for something you can do
over time or just want to see what you can do have whats there, then who knows
and who's to say maybe we'll end up laying out your new modular home.
good luck
JR
[EOB]
|
128.167 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Wed Feb 12 1992 18:37 | 53 |
| Well, for starters I don't think you want to move the fireplace
and probably not the stairs either. If you need to do that much
you'd probably be better off tearing down and re-starting.
Is the deck on a full foundataion? If it is or if you can put a
full foundation over it, this is what I'd suggest doing. Then put
two bedrooms in the area where the deck and "small bedroom" are
now. Use some of the kitchen space, too. Add a new deck outside
the existing area.
Move the kitchen into the dining area (or whatever). Put the new
kitchen wher the bedroom is and let it open into the living room
(through the little nook) and also open ito the hallway/bathroom
area, which is the new dining room. (I like open areas; use walls
if you must!)
All of which assumes that the interior walls are not structural,
or that you can solve the structural problems and move walls at
will. Unfortunately, this might mean big $$.
Upgrade the existing loft (perhaps adding or enlarging a dormer?)
to include a full bath for your master bedroom suite.
All of which may just cost lots more than re-building, but if you
do what I suggest, it'll look something like this. You'll have to
play with dimensions to see if this works.
new door
------------------------------------\ /-----------------------------------------
| _______________| | | |
|C| | | Bathroom | |
|a| Dining | (& Laundry?) | |
|b| Room |_________ ___| Bedroom |
|i| Kitchen | |
|n| | |
|e| |--------| | |
|t| |STAIR TO| | |
|s| | | CELLAR | | |
|-| --------------------- |--------| | |
| | | | S | |- --------------- ---|
| | Fireplace | | T | | |
| ------------------- | A | | walk |
| | I | | in |
| | R | Bedroom | closet |
| | | |--------|
| Living Room | T | | walk |
| | O | in |
| | | | closet |
| L | | |
------------------------------/ \---------O-------------------------------------
Front F
Door T
|
128.168 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Is the electric chair UL approved? | Wed Feb 12 1992 18:58 | 18 |
| If the house itself is in good shape structuarly, you may be better off
gutting it and laying it out with a more sane pattern. .8 has some
good ideas.
Things to consider:
The wall behind the fireplace is probably structural. A wall will probably
have to remain here. Of course doorways or openings can be added if done
competently.
Try to get the bedrooms bunched together and the kitchen/dining/whatever
together, with the "main" door here.
You may want to put "stairs to basement" under "stairs to loft", this
eliminates an otherwise immovable object that has to be worked around as
well as gaining a small amount of floorspace.
-Mike
|
128.169 | A new home for BV! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Thu Feb 13 1992 09:51 | 15 |
|
HUMMMMMM, Sounds like the movie "The Money Pit"!!!!!
I take it that this is a very old house? If so, it sounds
like it was build around the old horse barn. I would look
into what the main frame of the structure is before thinking
about moving any walls. Does the main section center around
the fireplace? Like if you took the stone away, the house would
fall into itself?
Opt #2. If you did rebuild, I'd go with a stick built. It might
take a day or two longer, but you can alway change things as you
go. IMHO, your still getting a better house and it wont cost any
more.
JD
|
128.170 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Thu Feb 13 1992 11:02 | 17 |
| Thanks for the thoughts. Well, the house is somewhat old. It seems that
it had burned down at some point and the owner at the time had it rebuilt.
So, I am not real sure how old the whole building is. It is definitely
not built around the barn. That is farther away.
Moving the cellar stairs is something I had not thought of.
We are thinking of seeing how low we can get the price. If we can get
it low enough, it may just be worthwhile.
The realtor is checking where the septic system is located. That will
make a big difference to what can be done.
Someone else said we would almost need to get the place for the cost
of the land.
Ed..
|
128.171 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Feb 13 1992 12:36 | 16 |
| Well, if you can get the place cheaply enough so that tearing down and
starting over is a viable option, there's no reason not to go for it.
Move in as is (weird though it may be, I assume you *could* live there),
think about it for a while, then when you decide what you really want,
do the work. You may decide, eventually, to tear it down. Or you may
decide to remodel. I don't think you have to decide, for sure, what
you're going to do before you buy it as long as you are sure that you
can do whatever you eventually decide to do when the time comes.
Living there will give you a chance to investigate which walls are
load-bearing, etc. and allow better analysis of the possibilities.
I suspect you'll be better off remodeling, but it's hard to say for
sure.
The only drawback is that remodeling a place while you're living in
it is a colossal pain. In this case, if you decide to gut the place
(or tear it down) you'd have to move out for a while.
|
128.172 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Mon Feb 24 1992 12:26 | 17 |
| Well, things are looking pretty ok with the sale of our house. We have been
seriously considering an offer on this place. We would only get it if it
came with the full 27 acres. Some had expressed concern that we would be
getting into something really bad. Can you expound on this line of thought?
I am trying to think of all of the bad things, as well as the positives.
I like the floor plan in .8. But, there does seem to be one major
problem. The driveway comes up along the front of the house. But the
kitchen is at the back of the house. There is only one entrance to the
house from the front. That is right into the living room.
We were also thinking of taking the loft upstairs and basically expanding the
second floor to go out over the kitchen. This would allow 2 bedrooms
upstairs, instead of a loft area. What would be the thoughts around
this?
Ed..
|
128.173 | The Smart House in Groton? | DAVE::MITTON | Token rings happen | Fri Jan 22 1993 14:23 | 14 |
|
Has anyone been to the "Smart House" in Groton yet?
Where is it? The phone number does not answer.
Two weeks running the Globe has printed articles about this house
in Groton that has all of these whizzy electronic features and
unique styling.
It is open for public touring through Feb.2 Tues-Sunday 10am-4pm.
So far I have not been able to figure out where it is.
The phone number for info is 508-957-6006
Dave.
|
128.174 | | MANTHN::EDD | Jiggle the handle... | Fri Jan 22 1993 14:47 | 5 |
| > The phone number does not answer.
Don't sound so smart to me!!
Edd
|
128.175 | | ALLVAX::JEFFERSON | | Fri Jan 22 1993 15:39 | 4 |
|
it's on Town Forest Road, which is off of Rte 225 heading west from
Groton Center...
|
128.176 | What I've heard | DELNI::HICKOX | N1KTX | Fri Jan 22 1993 15:45 | 15 |
|
The tour is $2.50 per person and as previously mentioned is
off of Route 225 in West? Groton after the nursery.
I was going to go there on Monday, but found out that was the
only day it was closed (so much for planning).
Maybe someone else has been there and can post some comments.
P.S. I was informed that the $2.50 is suppose to go to some charity,
I haven't verified this, and not sure what charity it is, but
I assume it is a local one.
Mark
|
128.177 | | DAVE::MITTON | Token rings happen | Fri Jan 22 1993 18:41 | 8 |
| I first tried the phone number on Sunday, but then decided that it
must be some office somewhere.
The home is a private home, and is only open through some arrangement
with some sort of Architecture/Building trade convention that happens
to going on around about now.
Dave.
|
128.178 | Open thru Sunday | DAVE::MITTON | Token rings happen | Tue Feb 02 1993 19:21 | 81 |
| Okay, been there. My previous date & time information is incorrect.
It is open through this Sunday, Feb 7th, 10am - 4pm.
The admission is $2.50 going to charity.
There are lots of things going on in this house, and unfortunately a
bit of marketing hype in the tour. You get a 10 min video describing
the system, a tour of the house from one of the people, (I got the wife
of the owner) you get dropped in the basement for a heating system
description, then you can wander out at your leisure.
Despite the attempts to appear integrated there are several distinct
systems in the house that are "bridged" together in the basement.
[as I describe the house, I'm going to use computer terms. The owners
don't think that way, and couldn't describe how the guts work.
They just know how to use it]
- The main electrical system is novel, in that all switches are "soft",
that is they send a "keypress" to the system, and the system controls
outlets and fixtures. Dimming functions are built-in standard.
Even a shutoff has a delay and ramp down. Any switch can be programmed
to control "any" light or appliance or group and possible sequences.
Group "modes" are given names and can be programmed for things like
morning wake-up, unoccupied house (arm the alarm, setback the
thermostats) etc.
There are several "master" control panels with an LCD display that
is menu oriented and lets you control everything. The main panel
in the basement had a DB9 to connect a PC to down-load the
configuration.
The standard junction box has positions for electrical outlets and
video and telephone. They use seperate cables and are mass terminated
on the back of the unit. The video has an IN and OUT RG jack, where
the IN goes down to a headend amplifier/distributor, so that VCR and
security monitor inputs can be fed to any TV in the house.
A multiline phone system (AT&T) services the house, and connects to
the smart system for remote control. A voice"mail"-style phone control
lets you interogate the house and do control functions remotely.
As I indicated previously, you have program the doorbell to autodial
a number and intercom with the front door.
The electrical outlet cable has 3-wire power, and a 6 wire control.
They hype that you can control "any" outlet or appliance in the house
but from my observation, that is only if you install the relay
controlled outlets everywhere. Many of the outlets are not controlled.
My guide also claimed that the system could detect faulty appliances
and turn them off. But she couldn't explain how, and I couldn't see
how either. "Smart Appliances" are in the future plans.
- The security system was a top of the line ADEMCO system, "bridged"
into the system somehow, so it could be interoperated somewhat
remotely. There were standard security panels in the normal places.
- They had a BOSE central audio system in many rooms. Volume switchs
in the walls, but no real integration there.
- The Smart system had someway to turn the master bath shower on and
off. (a feature?) This was coupled to the "Awake" mode/event and a
bathroom wall switch.
- The video indicated that you could have controlled gas appliances
also. Some of these components are not availible yet. (vaporware
alert)
- The house was heated by hot water sub-floor radiant heat (Rich
Trethewy would be proud) with baseboards in rooms with carpet.
Heat functions were controllable from the smart system.
Because of hw, they also had a Central A/C cooling, and an air
exchanger system for ventilation and humidity control.
- The whole house is very nicely furnished with nice glass and
other touches. There is a stained glass window in the foyer. All the
rooms have been decorated with loaned furnishings from numerous
companies.
All in all, it is a very interesting look into what can be done with
the current state-of-the art in home wiring.
Dave.
|
128.179 | | TUXEDO::YANKES | | Thu Feb 04 1993 18:05 | 12 |
|
Re: .5
Great, just what I'd need: spend a lot of money to get several
zillion more things that will need repair and have to worry about my
kids (when they get to the age) reprogramming all my wall switches to
control things that I'm not expecting. No thanks! This sounds to me
like "gee-whiz" technology instead of useful technology. I bet some
future owner of this house will enter a reply in the "why did they ever
do that?" note. ;-)
-craig
|
128.180 | another view | TUXEDO::MOLSON | | Thu Feb 04 1993 19:29 | 45 |
| I also visited this house (and met Richard Trethewy, Expensive Heating
Systems R Us in the basement).
Some what they demonstrated was useful, some of it silly.
Good things:
* the radiant heating is (according the the tour guide) very efficient.
* the sockets detect whether it is a plug being plugged in, and don't
turn on if it is a child's finger or a paper clip
* the light groups looked useful. You could turn on all the lights
between point a (the bed) and b (the bathroom) at half intensity
with one switch
Silly things:
* why turn on the shower from your bed????
* the basement and garage floors are heated. What a waste!
Notes:
* all the outlets boxes (a box with an electrical outlet, video in and
video out) were bench built. They are going to production late
spring.
* there were an unbelievably enormous number of wires in the basement.
Labor alone is non-trivial as this system is currently designed.
My feeling was that it would be 5 to 10 years before a rational person
would install this stuff.
There is a technical overview of the Smart House system in the
February issue of The Computer Applications Journal.
Non-Smart-House comments:
This house is a huge pseudo victorian. It does not have the oversize
windows or high ceilings that real victorians (modern or old) have.
The decor is similarly pseudo victorian.
For such as techno-whizzy house, it ignored modern energy and comfort
research. Properly placed shade trees plus glass give you solar heating
(and nice bright spaces) in the winter without baking you in the
summer. Victorians are comfortable in the summer (in ne) without
airconditioning because of the high ceilings and large windows. Add
a whole house fan to one and you will not use much a/c. This house did
not have a whole house fan. It did have a/c. To my way of thinking,
this more than negates any energy saving from the radiant heat.
|
128.181 | Actually I sort of like it, but... | DAVE::MITTON | Token rings happen | Thu Feb 04 1993 20:07 | 24 |
| Coincidently, Circuit Cellar INK sent me a promotional copy this
month, and I have looked over the article on the system.
(after visiting the house)
Unfortunately, what is frustrating me is my techno-nerd need to
understand _how_ a damn electrical outlet is going to tell the
difference between a child with a paper-clip and a regular desk lamp?
I have this inanate feeling to distrust any feature I don't understand
how it is implemented, therefore I don't bindly believe it's going to
protect me. And it's not like I want a circuit schemantic. We all
trust GFCI's these days, because we sort of understand the concept
of detecting a current imbalance. I just want that level of
explanation.
The article talks a lot about the stucture of the system, that is how
the wiring works to carry info to and from the control, and their
protocols. But not a lot about how the controls work. It did admit
that the boxes do have 7 states, but not what they mean.
sigh... It actually looks like it could become something interesting
in the future, but it needs some more cost reduction.
Dave.
|
128.182 | | PSDVAX::DFIELD | | Fri Feb 05 1993 19:58 | 13 |
|
I visited this house last Sunday and was quite impressed with the possibilities.
There was marketing hype and the staff couldn't answer all the questions but
but remember that the hype and the selling is going to help drive the penetration
of this type of system in the marketplace and the folks selling it aren't
neccessarily going to implement it correctly or understand all the possibilities.
What impressed me is that I think this is the beginning of a standard for a new
level of wiring that will essentially be a bus for power,data,video and phone
for the entire house. This has great possibilities
-Cheers,
Doug Field
|
128.183 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Feb 05 1993 20:24 | 6 |
| Unfortunately, there are about a half a dozen competing "standards", and
it's beginning to look like HDTV - just around the corner for the past 15
years. Popular Science has done a number of articles on the subject,
including one just recently.
Steve
|
128.184 | Tom Edison was a believer in DC | TUXEDO::ROSENBAUM | Rich Rosenbaum | Sun Feb 07 1993 17:33 | 16 |
| re: house wiring of the 90's
I had a recent thought - with the increasing number of household devices that
need an AC adapter, I'm wondering when homes will be wired thoughout with
+6VDC. (or maybe 12VDC unregulated, or +3.3v for the next generation Alpha
computers, or..)
All those AC adapters are neither efficient or convenient.
Rich
Now that I think about it more, my house only needs 110/220 VAC for major
appliances, motorized stuff, and lamps (most of the other devices just
convert the line current to low voltage DC). Now if I convert my house
lighting to low-voltage halogen..
|
128.185 | time to ask for those pay raises | UPSAR::WALLACE | Vince Wallace | Mon Feb 08 1993 13:00 | 7 |
| One of the most amazing aspects of the wiring was its price. The
guy explaining the electrical system in the basement said it had cost
$40,000 to wire the house. He tried to downplay the cost by saying
that the house would have been expensive to wire anyway (they have
a 400 amp service, they have several hundred feet of underground
cable to the street, etc), but for that price I can continue to turn
the shower on by hand!
|
128.186 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Mon Feb 08 1993 13:08 | 3 |
| Sounds like a waste of Money.
Marc H.
|
128.187 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Feb 08 1993 14:22 | 10 |
| Part of the expense is the need for three (at least) separate sets of
wiring. It's amusing to note that the one "smart" system which has the
best chance of succeeding is the one that's been in use for years, X-10.
It's simple and uses the AC line for signalling.
I'm not sure I'd want to live in a computer-controlled house, anyway. Anyone
seen "Electric Dreams"? (Or "The Demon Seed"?) Do we really need a
computer-controlled toothbrush?
Steve
|
128.188 | Why not 12VDC? | TUXEDO::YANKES | | Tue Feb 09 1993 13:59 | 13 |
|
Re: .11
Interesting, I was just thinking that same thing last evening but
on a slight different angle. I'm suprised that the "smart house"
wasn't wired also for 12VDC outlets to make it easier to couple
alternative energy sources to the house. (Then again, if they could
afford $40,000 for wiring, they probably aren't worried about paying
the monthly electric bills all that much... ;-) 12VDC appliances are
available, and having the wiring in place to distribute it as such
avoids the inefficiencies of converting the 12VDC to 110/220 VAC.
-craig
|
128.189 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Feb 09 1993 14:25 | 4 |
| Moving 12VDC over long wires is inefficient and you'd need big conductors
for any serious amount of current. But the idea is intriguing.
Steve
|
128.190 | a nice warm transformer to sit on too.... | SMURF::WALTERS | | Tue Feb 09 1993 16:53 | 12 |
|
Why move it a long way? A single transformer per household,
and even the heat lost from the transformer could be recaptured.
Many electricity substations have elaborate cooling systems that
use toxic chemicals (PCBs?), so there's a green benefit too.
The labs at my college all had a 9v DC outlets throughout
the building. Everyone carried a tap to power their Walkman.
regards,
Colin
|
128.191 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Tue Feb 09 1993 17:23 | 1 |
| But Walkmans (Walkmen?) use 3 volts.
|
128.192 | this was when they were heftier | SMURF::WALTERS | | Tue Feb 09 1993 17:36 | 11 |
|
Politically correct - "Walkpersons" - at that time a lot of them used
4 AA batteries (in about 2 hours) and were happy with any input from
3-9v.
regards,
Colin
|
128.193 | | TUXEDO::YANKES | | Tue Feb 09 1993 18:47 | 11 |
|
Re: .16
I'll echo .17's comment about "What long wires?". I wasn't
suggesting that all the homes in a neighborhood be wired for 12VDC
so that they could share a common source a few miles away, but rather
that a house be wired for 12VDC so the rooms are supplied from, perhaps,
a bank of batteries (fed from whatever) out in the garage. Longest run
of wires perhaps 50 feet? Maybe 75 feet for a larger house?
-craig
|
128.194 | | FORTY2::PALKA | | Thu Feb 18 1993 10:29 | 23 |
128.195 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Feb 18 1993 10:55 | 5 |
| RE: .21
Good point.
Marc H.
|
128.196 | maybe not for the cooker.... | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Feb 18 1993 12:40 | 45 |
|
> The only thing you could use a 12V distribution system for would be low
> powered devices (things you could run off batteries).
Andrew,
That was what I was thinking about, I already have at least five of
these cluttering up outlets and preventing me from backing furniture
closer to walls. But don't forget that many other low-power household
appliances also contain internal step-down transformers that do not
draw many watts - radios, small hifis etc. These could all be
eliminated, producing smaller, lighter, cheaper consumer units. Any
items that required higher wattages could then be hardwired,
eliminating many safety problems with outlets. This seems less of a
challenge than installing "smart outlets" that can detect a kid's
finger!
I wouldn't know where to begin doing the math, but it also strikes me
that all these different transformers can't possibly be as efficient
as having a single transformer? At least you could have a heat
recovery system that uses the energy normally lost as heat.
Another advantage would be flexibility. I wouldn't need to call an
electrician (which is also economical!) every time I wanted
to change the living environ. You could have a hifi system based on
amplified speakers that was highly configurable to changing room
acoustics, configurable low-level lighting.
Because there's less of a requirement for insulation, a low voltage
system could be more like a power "bus" probably built into the
structure of a house. It could even use structural metal as a
conductor, just like a car chassis. It would be easy to supplement
the supply with your own roof solar panels during the daytime,
and even store this solar energy for night-time use in a battery array.
I've recently seen on (This Old House - a US DIY program) a system that
was based on a remote transformer and it didn't seem to be using very
thick wire to throw off more light than conventional tubes and bulbs.
What about the halogen system you have in the foyer of DEC park there
in Reading? As I recall, it has wire that is as thin as fishing line!
Regards
Colin (ex Reading)
|
128.197 | | FORTY2::PALKA | | Thu Feb 18 1993 13:36 | 41 |
| I dont think you would reduce the number of mains sockets, as you need
them conveniently placed for lights, TV, vacuum cleaner, HiFi, PC and
all the other appliances that you need, so there is no saving there
(and the safety problem remains as well - you dont want to call an
electrician to install them).
I dont think the 12V power bus is cheaper (or more efficient) than
adapters. Consider the cost of wiring and installing a socket. This is
probably already as expensive as an adapter, but you probably need 3 or
4 times as many sockets installed (most sockets are inevitably idle,
because they are not in the right place). Then you need to include the
transformer in the basement. Some of these costs could be reduced if
the 12V distribution is installed alongside the mains distribution
(with cables and outlets carrying both voltages - this would also
provide power for the intelligent switching in the outlets).
Also you already have a perfect heat recovery system with adapters -
any heat lost is used to heat up the room. With a transformer in the
basement any heat lost is lost to the basement, where it is no use.
(OK, so in summer the heat lost in the adapter requires more A/C).
Again the voltage used for most small equipment is not 12V.
3V, 4.5V and 6V or 9V are common for small portable things. You would
need to convert from 12V downwards. This would result in as much loss
as the mains adapter! Hi Fi systems need more than 12V - common
circuits operate from 25 to 50 V (although you can just about get 20W
from a bridge amplifier on 12V, but that is not HiFi quality).
Converting DC upwards is more expensive than converting from AC.
As for halogen light systems. The large size of wire is not needed to
prevent the wire melting, but to keep the voltage drop down. Low
voltage halogen light systems normally have the transformer mounted
within a few feet of the lights. Also some of these halogen systems are
24V, which reduces the wire size by a factor of 4.
I can't comment on the system you saw on This Old House, save to say
that they may have been keeping the cable runs short, and possibly
providing extra voltage from the transformer to compensate for the loss
in the cables.
Andrew
|
128.200 | Feedback on house layout change wanted | ONE900::BRODERICK | I hate it when this name gets truncated | Tue May 25 1993 20:33 | 155 |
128.201 | Some thoughts | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Wed May 26 1993 12:16 | 29 |
|
Cost-wise you might be better off relocating ;-}.
Most splits, including the one I owned, have a downstairs that
feels somewhat "underground" (even when it isn't fully). Since you
mention the need for dehumidifying as well as heating concerns it
sounds like yours probably does. If that is the case, I'd recommend
NOT following this plan.
I certainly wouldn't buy a New England house whose main living
area feels basement-level and requires a dehumidifier.
>> Will it be warm enough (comnfortable) in the winter (w/ padding, carpet,
and better heat? (Will this overcome the current problems?)
I'd recommend a more elaborate floor than that considering that this
is mostly bedroom space. Sealing followed by roofing paper, followed
by screeds (PT if necessary), insulated in between screeds, followed
by 3/4" subfloor THEN your padding and carpeting. Sounds elaborate
but all three of my homes had finished rooms over concrete and only
the one built as I described satisfied me.
One other item: I think your 10x22 Master Bedroom would feel like a
large hallway. You might try relocating the closet over to the wall
against the staircase (as well as moving the closet in bedroom2) to
gain more width.
-Mac
|
128.202 | re: .1 | ONE900::BRODERICK | I hate it when this name gets truncated | Wed May 26 1993 15:04 | 17 |
128.203 | A way to get more ceiling height | PASTA::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Wed May 26 1993 18:44 | 54 |
| First, let me say that I think you've come up with a neat way to convert
a raised ranch into a colonial. Personally, I like the colonial floorplan
(kitchen/living room downstairs, bedrooms upstairs) far better than either
single floor or any other 2 story style. I like to play with house plans,
too, and I like the way you've set yours up to be a modular project that
can be carried out DIY over a period of time, as spare time and finances
permit. It's not a cheap proposal, but I feel that you have saved some
big bucks by keeping the roof and foundation unchanged.
However, for it to be successful, I feel that the result has to look and
feel like a colonial, NOT like a raised ranch that has been modified.
I think this is a very important point that should not be minimized.
For example, your 7'6" ceiling downstairs is pretty typical, and back
when I was house hunting I visited many splits and raised ranches that
had the same ceiling height, and that had rooms put in downstairs by
laying carpet over the slab. All of them were damp and cold. All.
The problem with a cement floor is that it lets dampness through and
conducts heat really well. I'm not certain that you need to put
insulation into your subfloor, but if you want to make a dry, warm
comfortable space down there in this damp climate, I feel that you
really need to have your floor raised above the slab, with a high
quality vapor barrier in between (4mil plastic, not roofing paper).
Also, don't forget to build out the walls around the edge of the
space so that you have good insulation and a good vapor barrier between
the side wall concrete and the inside of the room. Even 2 extra inches
of wall thickness would help a lot. I can advise you on how to extend
your window sills inward without replacing them if you are interested.
Now, the problem is how to achieve this given that you only have 7'6"
of headroom. I agree that you don't want to reduce the headroom any.
In fact, the ceiling is already lower than ideal, I think. But given
that this is already a pretty big project, I wonder if it would be
practical to remove the slab floor entirely! That shouldn't disturb
the foundation, which I believe goes down 4' from grade to the footings.
You could excavate out as much dirt as you wanted to (you may even be
able to get a Bobcat in there) attach PT headers to the inside of the
foundation walls with lugs, a nail gun or whatever, and hang floor
joists from it. Of course, you would want to lay down plastic on
the exposed earth to stop dampness.
Now, I've never done nor read about anyone doing anything like this,
except in a basement. So tell me, folks, is this a practical idea?
Waiting for a larger house to become available in the same area might
still be a better alternative, but would this plan work?
Enjoy,
Larry
PS -- Don't start such a project unless you have pretty stable employment
or feel sure that you can find another job without moving. :-( LS
|
128.204 | I *like* our slab | CRLVMS::BLACK | Andrew P. Black | Thu May 27 1993 04:18 | 63 |
| Our house (in Westford, Massachusetts) is a two-story colonial style
built on a slab. The plans call for a basement, but when you see the
amount of ledge in our garden, you can guess why the builder didn't did
one.
Of course, I have no way of knowing how much insulation there is under
the slab. A well-build slab should have some. I suspect that our
house has none.
Thermal mass in one's house is *good*. The slab keeps our living and
family rooms *warm* in winter and cool in summer. Recall that the
earth a few feet down is at roughly 50 degrees F all year round. In
the summer the downstairs of our house stays pleasently cool all day,
so long as I can convince my wife and kids to keep the doors nad
windows shut tight. The upstairs becomes hotter than hell, although
the atic fan that I put in last year means that now it's only a little bit
hotter than hell. :-)
The downside of having all of this nice thermal mass in the floor is
that the coldest part of the room is the carpet, so there is a tendency
for water to condense there in the wet season (mid to late summer),
which can promote mould. For the last couple of years we have run
dehumidifiers in the summer to counteract this. And also to keep the
piano repair man at bay. Air conditioning or moving to a place with a
better climate are the alternatives. Note that the issue is not
letting water _through_ the slab: the fill underneath should be dry and
well drained, and I presume that you know that this is the case to
even consider your plan in the first place. The problem is water
condensing out of the air, just as it does on your cold beer glass.
By the way, what we have over our slab is ordinary 3/8" or so foam pad,
and a decent fitted carpet. Last year I laid a floating hardwood floor
over the slab in our dinning room; it "floats" on 1/8" foam over 6mil
poly. It's georgeous :-)
I notice that you have a firplace in the basement. Seriously consider
putting a wood stove into it when you remodel. And put a minimum of 6"
of insulation in the walls. You will be cosy in there.
I second the reply in .3 with respect to making the finished conversion
look as though it was always meant to be that way, and not like a
converted split. What about the entrance? If I were buying your
house, having to go down stairs to get to the living room would turn me
right off. I would want an entrance on grade, or better still, a
couple of steps above.
Are the walls of what is now your basement half concrete, or do the
studs and the siding go all the way down to the ground? Exposed
concrete would also be a give-away that you had done a conversion.
Concrete on the inside can be firred-out and insulated, concrete on the
outside can probably be sided over, or maybe finished with a stone
veneer. I am guessing that the cold in your basement is due to the
concrete walls more than to the concrete floor.
Finally, if those sliders are aluminum-framed "builders' specials" like
mine, replace them with a hinged terrace door. The difference in terms
of warmth has to be felt to be believed.
One last point. One of the things that makes many basements feels like
basements is inadequate natural light. Can you put in enough big
windows to make it feel "bright" all year? Will you have to cut into
a concrete wall to do this? Will you have to regrade? These things
are expensive.
|
128.205 | re: .3 .4 | ONE900::BRODERICK | I hate it when this name gets truncated | Thu May 27 1993 17:47 | 75 |
| Thanks Larry and Andrew. Other's feedback still welcomed!!
re: .3
>However, for it to be successful, I feel that the result has to look and
>feel like a colonial, NOT like a raised ranch that has been modified.
>I think this is a very important point that should not be minimized.
I guess I wouldn't expect the end result to look-n-feel just like a colonial
I'd expect it to be sort of a hybrid (better layout than a typical mid-entry or
raised ranch but not quite the same as a colonial.) So it sounds like you guys
saying that the hybrid look is a big turn-off and definite no-no? The lower
level would be finished real nice, but your expectations (from looking at it
from the outside, would not be met when you walked in the front door, (not a
typical split).
>practical to remove the slab floor entirely! That shouldn't disturb
>the foundation, which I believe goes down 4' from grade to the footings.
>You could excavate out as much dirt as you wanted to (you may even be
Seems like all that work would end up more costly than an external expansion if
you have to break up the floor and remove it (concrete and gravel/sand below
it) and lay a new floor? Also, what about the main support posts down the
middle that bear the load of the upper floor (currently just 2 4x4s in the
family room and 3rd (possibly lally column?) hidden in the laundry room wall.
What would they stand on without a floor?
re: .4
> The downside of having all of this nice thermal mass in the floor is
> that the coldest part of the room is the carpet, so there is a tendency
> for water to condense there in the wet season (mid to late summer),
> which can promote mould. For the last couple of years we have run
> dehumidifiers in the summer to counteract this. And also to keep the
That sounds almost exactly the level of moisture problem we have.
> converted split. What about the entrance? If I were buying your
> house, having to go down stairs to get to the living room would turn me
> right off. I would want an entrance on grade, or better still, a
> couple of steps above.
There'd be a second entance at grade where the garage door is now. It wouldn't
be the main entrance. The mid-level entrance already has small roof with two
big white columns (sort of stately look?) on the concrete steps. That would
remain the main "formal" entrance, but the other would be used most of the
time. BTW, I didn't want to move that second entrance to the side after
reading here the potential big cost of cutting the foundation for that (up to
1K for 2 single door in 1/2 height wall).
Is 7x8 adequate for the heating unit and oil tank for this size house? Could I
get away with a tad smaller to make that second entrance way wider?
> Are the walls of what is now your basement half concrete, or do the
> studs and the siding go all the way down to the ground? Exposed
They're half concrete.
> Finally, if those sliders are aluminum-framed "builders' specials" like
Yep, got one of them "specials", which would be probably upgraded in the
process. One other thing just occured to me. When I took down some of the
ceiling in the family room (part barn board) to run a phone wire, I noticed
that the insulation had the vaper barrier down?? (The previous owner used the
family room as a large bedroom.) Why would it be done that way? And would
removing that (or inverting it) make a significant difference in the moisture
levels (dampness in summer) down there?
> One last point. One of the things that makes many basements feels like
> basements is inadequate natural light. Can you put in enough big
I'd plan to add as many windows as possible (big one on kitchen, 2-3 in dining
room, possibly more next to sliders
_Mike
|
128.206 | | CADSYS::FLEECE::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Thu May 27 1993 18:01 | 11 |
|
>> Is 7x8 adequate for the heating unit and oil tank for this size house? Could I
>> get away with a tad smaller to make that second entrance way wider?
I think there has to be some distance between the oil tank and the heating unit.
Does any one know about this? All the houses I have been in have the oil tank
on an outer wall, with the heating unit at least half way across the same wall,
usually in the center of the house, but sometimes on an opposite wall, Is there
a reason for this?
Elaine
|
128.207 | | CADSYS::FLEECE::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Thu May 27 1993 18:04 | 10 |
| >> Also, what about the main support posts down the
>> middle that bear the load of the upper floor (currently just 2 4x4s in the
>> family room and 3rd (possibly lally column?) hidden in the laundry room wall.
>> What would they stand on without a floor?
Those columns are sitting on footings underneath the slab. The slab also rests
on these footings, as do the walls. This is one reason I don't see how you
could lower the floor.
Elaine
|
128.208 | some comments and more on door placement | PASTA::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Tue Jun 01 1993 17:38 | 70 |
| I agree 100% with the comments on insulating the exposed foundation wall.
Concrete has an R value of about R1 per foot, so your #1 priority for
making the lower level space livable is probably to get foam insulation
over the concrete (and wallboard over that, of course, for fire safety).
I don't agree that thermal mass is desirable down there. In a climate
where you need to heat the house, you want thermal mass where the sun
can shine on it. The earth itself provides all the thermal mass that
you need down below. It stays at a constant temperature all year round
and the presence of a concrete slab isn't going to affect that temperature
much. Quite the contrary, if you are heating to a temperature higher
than the earth, it tends to suck up the heat, which is why the floor
feels cold and why water condenses there. It would be far better for
the dew point (the point at which the temperature is low enough for
humidity to condense out) to be below the floor level -- and underneath
a vapor barrier.
From the description, I don't believe the walls rest on footings immediately
below the floor. That can only be the case if the grade level is at least
4' above the interior floor level. If exterior grade is near floor level,
the footings have to be correspondingly farther down.
I didn't realize that there was a support post, I guess I should have.
Its footing might be immediately below the floor level, since it is
assumed that the interior of the building will always be above freezing.
However, it isn't necessarily immediately below the floor level. E.g.,
for a garage that I had built, the top of the support post footing is most
of a foot below the finished floor level. Still, you can't know how deep
the footing is without removing the slab, which you don't want to do unless...
Even that problem could be fixed (e.g., is the support inside a wall?
If not, can it be put inside one?), but as I said, it would be a lot of
work and I don't recommend it. The issue is: do you need more headroom
or not? If you do, then I'd encourage you to make sure you get it, either
by lowering the floor or by doing an external addition.
Finally, about whether it needs to look & feel like a colonial. Well,
not necessarily -- and obviously it isn't going to *look* just like a
colonial, no matter what you do. However, whatever you do, I feel that
to be easily resellable, it has to work well, not just be a compromise
that is better than what you had but not as good as other houses with
the same amount of finished space. Having a main living level with
constricted head room, or having to enter the main living level by
going up half a flight and then down again, both detract from the
usability. Maybe you can live with the ceiling height, but possibly
something can be done about the entrance.
For example, as .4 did, I'd encourage you to move your formal entrance
to the lower level, and abandon your split level entrance. Maybe you
should move the entrance to the living room side. That would be better
-- it's a common pattern to enter into the living room, and much more
useful than entering next to the furnace room. The two half flights at
your existing split level entrance would become a full flight up with a
landing halfway. You could leave the wall open to the stairway on the
living room side, to further increase the sense of openness in that room.
Of course, cutting through the concrete (and eliminating the roof over
your current entrance) are both problems (though you'll have to cut
through concrete anyway to get big windows, if the concrete really does
run halfway up the walls). However, this is an example of what I meant
about the end result needing to work well: the current plans seems to
have two doors, neither of which really enter the house in the best way in
terms of circulation patterns. I'm just guessing, having never seen your
house, but I think that it's important to consider the circulation
patterns you'll have and whether they'll be convenient.
Enjoy,
Larry
|
128.209 | try wood heat, too... | VAXCAP::WEST | | Mon Jun 14 1993 16:20 | 24 |
|
You might consider a fireplace insert in your family room or a wood
stove piped into it on a hearth, and heating with wood for much of
your house.
The open concept between your family room and kitchen and dining
would allow heat to circulate (with fan help, too), the open stairs to
the upstairs would allow heat to rise to the bedrooms (which can be
cooler anyway since you just sleep in them), you might try some ducting
of warmed basement air upstairs, or just use the new furnace for the
2nd floor, closing off all ducts to the lower floor.
Heating with wood will heat the thermal mass of your slab and walls
and take away a lot of the chill problem of a basement -- I heat my
whole house similar in size to yours with a Jotul in the basement - the
floor slab attracts the cats who sleep on it even in the middle of
winter, and it stays warm even 12 hours after the fire goes out.
I'm not saying it is a substitute for insulation, but just another way
to make the lower floor friendly, warm, and comfortable.
|
128.331 | B'en MacLaren: John & Elizabeth Lawson Residence | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 16:05 | 45 |
128.332 | | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 16:58 | 26 |
| In the next three replies, I will include recent (not final) schematics
of the three floors that make up the house. They will be black/white
PostScript. I don't know what scale they will come out on your viewer
or printer, so suffice it to say that the largest squares are 32'x32'.
In fact, you will find that the relationships of the lengths of the
various squares follows the Fibonacci Sequence: I[n+2] = I[n+1]+I[n]:
Fibonacci Sequence: 0, 1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, ...
Sides of each square: .. 4, 4, 8,12,20,32, ...
There is a 4'x4' tower at the edge of each of the two 32'x32' squares.
This is the central structure of the entire building. The two towers
are the centers of two overlapping spirals whose "leaves" exhibit the
Fibonacci Sequence.
You should be able to print or view the schematics using the following
commands:
NOTES> extract/noheader FIRSTFLOOR.PS 5062.2
$ print/param=data=ps FIRSTFLOOR.PS
$ view/interface=decw/format=ps FIRSTFLOOR.PS
Or whatever the equivalent is for your particular installation.
Mage
|
128.333 | FIRSTFLOOR.PS | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 16:58 | 585 |
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savobj restore
end
showpage
%%Trailer
|
128.334 | SECONDFLOOR.PS | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 16:59 | 408 |
| %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-1.2
%%BoundingBox:18 18 476 774
%%Creator: DECW$PAINT
%%CreationDate: 25-AUG-1993
%%Pages: 1
%%EndComments
%%EndProlog
%%Page: 1 1
55 dict begin
/savobj save def
/picstr 175 string def
newpath
18 18 moveto
594 18 lineto
594 774 lineto
18 774 lineto
closepath
clip
476 18 translate
90 rotate
756 458 scale
/bd{bind def}def /sd{string def}bd /U{0 exch getinterval def}bd
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/z2 z 2 U /z3 z 3 U /z4 z 4 U /z5 z 5 U /z6 z 6 U
/o2 o 2 U /o3 o 3 U /o4 o 4 U /o5 o 5 U /o6 o 6 U
/I {codes cf read pop get exec} bd
/codes [{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}{I}
{z 0 -32 S}{z 0 63 S}{z 0 158 S}{z 0 253 S}{o 0 -32 S}{o 0 63 S}{o 0 158 S}{o 0 253 S}
{a1 0 -32 S}{a1 0 63 S}{a2 0 -32 S}{a2 0 63 S}{a3 0 -32 S}{a3 0 63 S}
{a1 -32 F}{a1 63 F}{a2 -32 F}{a2 63 F}{a3 -32 F}{a3 63 F}
{Nn}{N1}{h1 0 -32 C}{h1 0 95 C}{h1 0 190 C}
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{2 H}{3 H}{4 H}{5 H}{6 H}{7 H}{8 H}{9 H}{10 H}{11 H}{12 H}{13 H}{14 H}{15 H}{16 H}{17 H}{18 H}{19 H}
{20 H}{21 H}{22 H}{23 H}{24 H}{25 H}{26 H}{27 H}{28 H}{29 H}
{30 H}{31 H}{32 H}{33 H}{34 H}{35 H}{36 H}{37 H}{38 H}{39 H}
z2 z3 z4 z5 z6 o2 o3 o4 o5 o6] def
/H {cf imstr 0 4 -1 roll getinterval readhexstring pop} bd
/A {/val exch def cf imstr readline pop dup 0 exch
{val add 3 copy put pop 1 add} forall pop} bd
/Nn {cf imstr readline pop} bd
/N1 {cf h1 readstring pop} bd
/C {cf read pop add put h1} bd
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/F {cf read pop add cf h1 readhexstring pop 0 get exch dofill} bd
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o 255 380 dofill pop
1400 848 1 [1400 0 0 -848 0 848]
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9" & !
uO4010 O6!%682 N6( )6!%?85$b6?z
savobj restore
end
showpage
%%Trailer
|
128.335 | THIRDFLOOR.PS | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 17:00 | 223 |
| %!PS-Adobe-2.0 EPSF-1.2
%%BoundingBox:18 18 476 774
%%Creator: DECW$PAINT
%%CreationDate: 25-AUG-1993
%%Pages: 1
%%EndComments
%%EndProlog
%%Page: 1 1
55 dict begin
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18 18 moveto
594 18 lineto
594 774 lineto
18 774 lineto
closepath
clip
476 18 translate
90 rotate
756 458 scale
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savobj restore
end
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%%Trailer
|
128.336 | | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 17:03 | 8 |
| I also have a full-color pencil sketch of the South Elevation, but I
must find a working color-scanner to digitize that. Also, I suspect
that the shear size of the text of a Color PostScript document will
preclude me from posting it here. Those who wish a copy of that image,
should probably contact me via MAIL, and I'll SEND/FOREIGN it back to
you for VIEWing.
Mage
|
128.337 | Heating calculations | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Aug 25 1993 19:42 | 92 |
128.210 | Household formulas and algorithms | 7189::EDD | Look out fellas, it's shredding time... | Tue Sep 07 1993 17:58 | 5 |
| Got a formula that gets used around the house? A handy algorhythm?
Post it here! (So I can find it next time!)
Edd
|
128.211 | Error in .1 | 30188::WOODS | | Tue Sep 07 1993 18:29 | 13 |
128.212 | Thanks for correction... | 7189::EDD | Look out fellas, it's shredding time... | Tue Sep 07 1993 18:52 | 3 |
| Erroneous .1 deleted.
Edd
|
128.213 | | 2082::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Sep 07 1993 18:53 | 3 |
| Nit - the word is "algorithms".
Steve
|
128.214 | | 37401::LAURENT | Hal Laurent @ MEL | Tue Sep 07 1993 19:04 | 7 |
| re: .4
>Nit - the word is "algorithms".
Edd spends too much time over in COMMUSIC. :-)
-Hal
|
128.215 | | 7189::EDD | Look out fellas, it's shredding time... | Tue Sep 07 1993 19:14 | 3 |
| Geez, wrong formula, bad spelling. I ain't doing too well today am I?
Edd (I think that's my name)
|
128.216 | BTU formula, please. | GIAMEM::CASWELL | | Tue Sep 14 1993 16:51 | 8 |
|
Does anybody have the formula for figuring the BTU size for
a furnace? I would like to be able to take windows, doors and
zones into consideration.
Thanks,
Randy
|
128.217 | Quite a bit to it. | MPGS::MASSICOTTE | | Tue Sep 14 1993 18:21 | 19 |
|
Have to know the "R" factor and sq. ft. of each
door,window,wall,ceiling,and floor. Plus the dimensions
of each window and door for "crack" infiltration.
Do you have exhaust fans that discharge to the outside
from ranges, bathrooms, whatever? Fireplace damper?
Caculations for the greater Boston area are figured on
"ZERO" degrees outside, 68 inside - normally. Add 10%
for a "fudge factor". That'll give you what you'll need.
Stop down at your city library and look in the HVAC section.
You should find a book in there which should give you the
"U" factor conversions and a form to follow.
Suggest you ask someone who's done it before to assist.
Fred
|
128.218 | Try this | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Wed Sep 15 1993 13:45 | 17 |
|
For an *ordinary* house in the Mass/S NH area with R11 walls and R30
attic and not a lot of glass, this is good:
Square feet of house X Ceiling height X 4 = BTU *output* of furnace
So a 2000 sq ft house with 8 ft ceilings would be...
2000 X 8 X 4 = 64000 BTUs.
(The 4 is a correction factor that can be changed for different types
of houses and locales)
So with average efficiency, you would need a 100,000 BTU furnace which
would have about a 65,000 btu output.
Fred - Sorry if I made you cringe with this. :^)
Kenny
|
128.219 | Just a "wee-bit" | MPGS::MASSICOTTE | | Wed Sep 15 1993 14:07 | 8 |
|
Kenny,
:^) I did "cringe" a little.
Sure hope you don't plan on backing those figures with a guarantee.
Fred
|
128.220 | How does it go... your mileage may vary? :^) | GERALD::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Wed Sep 15 1993 15:39 | 18 |
| Nope, no guarantee, but they certainly will be ballpark. They were
the actual figures used when I got a furnace (last week) for my house
in southern NH. I DID go through all those 'real' calculations the last
time I bought a furnace for my vacation house in the mountains and now
that I think of it, the numbers would have worked the same for that
shortcut method if you took into account the greater temp differential
(-20F outside to 68F inside)
For furnaces like gas furnaces, they usually have jumps of at least
25,000 BTU between sizes, so as long as you have 'enough' without going
way overboard. (My choices were 67K, 100K, and 133K. These were all
input figures) Too large a furnace wastes money buying it and will
cycle on and off too much, too small can't keep the house warm on the
coldest days. Between the three choices I had, there was no contest.
Kenny
Kenny
|
128.221 | This old Canadian House | APACHE::BROWN | | Thu Oct 14 1993 16:14 | 49 |
|
Should title - "This old Canadian hopeless house" - We purchased a 125-150 year
old house in Nova Scotia last year and are in the process of restoring the
outside while modernizing the inside.
The main (original) section of the house has been stated as being post and
beam constructed (they did use Cut nails not wire nails), and the newer
section is modern construction (somewhere around 100 years ago) This has been
verified thru the local historical folks and Newspaper insulation dated
1800-1860) plus families memory.
I've had the first floor joist releveled and new 3/4 Marine plywood laid down
and I've checked the sills.
The carpentors stated the best way to insulate the stone foundation was as
follows:
o dig a trench around the foundation
o cement the rocks/rebond the rocks with a trowel
o pour a retaining wall (few (3-4 inches thick) leaning towards
the foundation
illustration below where a=original stone fondation
b=cement trowel work
c=new poured foundation
d=excavation to do all this
(it is not possible to do
from the inside of cellar)
|
house |
|
|
sill____L
( ) ___
) a (b|c| /d
( ) | | /
) ( | | |
( ) | | /
_cellar_________I_I_/
a b c d
Now the question(s).....
Is this the best way to insulate re-cement the foundation?
Is there a better way-not so labor intensive, and no I don't
have the $$$$ to lift the house and pour a new foundation.
Thanks for any input....
Bbrown
|
128.222 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Thu Oct 14 1993 16:42 | 14 |
| It sounds pretty reasonable to me. Of course, you could do what
they used to do in the wintertime - bank the house with hay (or
leaves, or whatever was handy).
Drive some stakes into the ground about 8" out from the foundation
and nail on some cheap boards to the height of the foundation.
Fill the intervening space with hay, then cover with a top board
leaning against the house at about a 45 degree angle to keep the
snow and rain out of the hay.
That was a regular fall ritual at my grandfather's 1757-vintage
farmhouse. Then in the spring, take it off so the sills can air
out.
|
128.223 | Eel grass too! | APACHE::BROWN | | Thu Oct 14 1993 16:48 | 10 |
| Steve
Thanks for the reply....Yup they been doing simular to hay except
they been using Salt-Water eel grass(lots of it in the area) I was
surprised after all this time that the sills wern't trashed with bugs.
In fact some walls are insulated with the grass---pretty drafty once
it's settled....
merci
BB
|
128.224 | Fire!! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Thu Oct 14 1993 17:27 | 7 |
|
Maybe you might want to put the grass in plastic
trash bags. It will keep in for getting wet and conducting
the cold and lessen the chance the meterman might drop
a smoke near the house....
JD
|
128.225 | Other benefit to eel-grass | VICKI::DODIER | Cars suck, then they die | Fri Oct 15 1993 12:03 | 6 |
| You probably know this already, but only fresh water rots out wood.
That's why wooden boats left in salt water don't rot out (unless rain
collects and pools.) The salt in the eel-grass probably helps keep the
wood preserved to some degree.
Ray
|
128.226 | Thanks | APACHE::BROWN | | Fri Oct 15 1993 12:07 | 9 |
| Ray
Nope did not realize that...kinda obvious...Thanks for reminder.
After spraying insecticide/preservative in cellar on new post and
new joist I was surprised to see so very little rot (used Petox-and
vacated house for a few days)
BB
|
128.227 | Insulating Stone Foundations | CIMBAD::CURTIS | | Fri Nov 05 1993 15:43 | 10 |
| Another way to insulate a stone foundation is by insulating the
earth that it is set in. If you insulate just below the surface
with 2 inch thick extruded polystyrene extending about 4 feet out from
the house (sloped to shed water away) then the ground containing the
stonework is insulated fairly well. This insulation could be butted up to
an additional two inch thickness attached to the above-grade foundation after
suitable pointing. The above grade insulation would need to be
stucco'd to protect it.
Chet
|
128.228 | House Option/Feature Wish List | BUMP::BFMAHER | | Thu Dec 16 1993 17:46 | 22 |
|
I am in the process of defining features/options to be included in the
house that I am having built. I am trying to identify options that are
much more cost effective if included while the house is being built than
if added later. Examples:
Plumbing for a central vacuum system = $50.00
I'll add the system later.
Additional recessed lighting fixtures.
Switched electrical boxes in the ceiling capable of supporting
a ceiling fan/light. I'll install the fan later.
Any additional options/features that you have or would have built into
your house would be greatly appreciated !
Thanks,
Brian
|
128.229 | Do all Cabling | HOCUS::RHODES | | Thu Dec 16 1993 18:14 | 6 |
| I would have all cabling done for all rooms to a central
location/panel. [ie. phone lines, cable tv/atenna lines, stereo
speaker wires and remote controlers (volume/balance)].
Take it from one who is snaking all this through a 50 year old house!!
Next house will be built to suit.
|
128.230 | | SUBPAC::LANGLOIS | | Thu Dec 16 1993 18:29 | 3 |
|
Chimney Jog....If you are not putting a fireplace in initialy youll
be glad you did.
|
128.231 | | WRKSYS::WEISS | | Thu Dec 16 1993 21:13 | 8 |
| I put in a 1.5" PVC pipe strait up from the basement to the attic.
This way I can easily snake any future wires/cables/etc between
floors (Pipe located within walls, of course).
Also, if you put in a fireplace jog & mantel header, you can always add
the brickwork later.
...Ken
|
128.232 | Not sure it's a money saver, but possibly avoids cabinet adjustments. | SOFTEY::CORRIGAN | | Fri Dec 17 1993 09:28 | 4 |
| If you are considering any ceramic flooring in the future ie. bathroom
or kitchen, but cannot afford to install at this time, I would consider
adding the underlayment required for tile in these rooms now. This would at
least avoid the problem of reduced kick-space beneath cabinetry.
|
128.233 | big drip | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Dec 17 1993 09:53 | 12 |
|
.....a big garage!!!!!!
Handy Andy says.... If you want something that requires construction,
Do it now! Its a little extra up front but it saves the mess of
doing it later.....
Plumbing.....put enought unions in so things can be taken apart
with little effort..
JD
|
128.234 | Wiring wiring wiring | NOVA::SWONGER | DBS Software Quality Engineering | Fri Dec 17 1993 12:03 | 8 |
|
Put in twice as many electrical circuits as you think you need, and
don't forget the outside outlets. Echoing what somebody else said,
things like cable-TV coax and speaker wires are much better done
while the walls are open. And don't forget to put phone jacks
everywhere.
Roy
|
128.235 | Misc ideas. | MPGS::RUSSO | | Fri Dec 17 1993 12:03 | 19 |
| Hi
Some more ideas.
1. Put in a perimeter drain and make sure they tar the foundation.
2. Make sure all pluming in the cellar is up high so you can finish
the basement later.
3. Add pluming in the cellar for a sink and possibly a bath if you
plan to finish the basement.
4. Put a drain in the garage if code allows. You may also want to
make sure the bottom of the garage has a cement edge. The problem
here for me is on one side of the garage dry wall goes to the floor.
When you drive a snow covered car into the garage eventually the
snow melts and the wall absorbs the water.
Joe
|
128.236 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Fri Dec 17 1993 12:12 | 3 |
| Add a standby generator setup.
Marc H.
|
128.237 | what I wish had been done for my house... | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri Dec 17 1993 12:23 | 30 |
|
A drain route for the catch pan under your weater heater.
Install a damp-barrier in the slab during pouring.
Install BOLTS for the sole plate in the foundation
A pipe path for a radon exhaust (OK, I know controversy rages, but
when you come to sell the house, they won't pull this one on you)
Water line to humidifier and fridge icemaker.
Frame a box for a through-the-wall airconditioner, if you
don't plan on central air. Lay in a 220V cable to the
heat exchanger if you plan to do central air in future
and form/pour a slab for it.
Pipe outside air in for the furnace to burn.
use w-rafters that allow for the attic floor to be load-bearing without
rafter modification, and allow standing headroom in the attic.
(as opposed to A rafters...)
lay pipes for central sprinkler system
install drywells if permitted.
Colin
|
128.238 | | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Fri Dec 17 1993 13:14 | 23 |
|
1. As seen on TOH:
Not only run a length of PVC from attic to basement for future
runs of cable/stereo/phone etc, but leave a bundle of strings
in the PVC labeled at each end. (Attach new wire to string "A"
in basement, go upstairs and pull on string "A" to draw the wire
through). Easy.
2. A second on the radon vent pipe. In many areas this is becoming
something a builder does without asking: Run a 3" PVC through the
basement slab and into the attic. If Radon is detected after
construction, slap a draw fan on the top of the stack and a pipe
through the roof. Quick fix.
3. EXTRA circuits in the garage and basement... frequently neglected
areas that often become workshops.
4. Low voltage wiring EVERYWHERE. To windows and doors for future
alarm systems, to appropriate areas for motion detectors, to
skylights for auto-open/shut devices.
|
128.239 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Dec 17 1993 13:48 | 5 |
| I would recommend running power cables in metal conduit rather than PVC. This
will reduce electromagnetic fields that can cause problems in your low-voltage
wiring. Some people would say that it is also healthier.
Steve
|
128.198 | Smart Humor | FREBRD::POEGEL | Garry Poegel | Fri Dec 17 1993 14:04 | 99 |
|
[forwards disinfected]
Tele-Communications Inc., the nation's largest cable television company,
is in talks to launch a unique pilot project in conjunction with Pacific
Gas & Electric Co. and Microsoft Corp. to design a "smart home." The home
automation industry is expected to triple in size, from $1.7 billion this
year to more than $5.1 billion by the year 2000.
[Here's what a diary might look like from a homeowner with this "smart
home":]
====== November 28, 1995
Moved in at last. Finally, we live in the smartest house in the
neighborhood. Everything's networked. The cable TV is connected to our
phone, which is connected to my personal computer, which is connected to
the power lines, all the appliances and the security system. Everything
runs off a universal remote with the friendliest interface I've ever used.
Programming is a snap. I'm, like, totally wired.
====== November 30
Hot stuff! Programmed my VCR from the office, turned up the thermostat
and switched on the lights with the car phone, remotely tweaked the oven a
few degrees for my pizza. Everything nice and cozy when I arrived. Maybe
I should get the universal remote surgically attached.
====== December 3
Yesterday, the kitchen crashed. Freak event. As I opened the
refrigerator door, the light bulb blew. Immediately, everything else
electrical shut down - lights, microwave, coffee maker - everything.
Carefully unplugged and replugged all the appliances. Nothing.
Called the cable company (but not from the kitchen phone). They refer
me to the utility. The utility insists the problem was in the software.
So the software company runs some remote telediagnostics via my house
processor. Their expert system claims it has to be the utility's fault.
I don't care, I just want my kitchen back. More phone calls; more remote
diagnostics.
Turns out the problem was "unanticipated failure mode" - the network
had never seen a refrigerator bulb failure while the door was open. So the
fuzzy logic interpreted the burnout as a power surge and shut down the
entire kitchen. But because sensor memory confirmed that there hadn't
actually been a power surge, the kitchen's logic sequence was confused so
it couldn't do a standard restart.
The utility guy swears this was the first time this has ever happened.
Rebooting the kitchen took over an hour.
====== December 7
The police are not happy. Our house keeps calling them for help. We
discover that whenever we play the TV or stereo above 25 decibels, it
creates patterns of micro-vibrations that get amplified when they hit the
window. When these vibrations mix with a gust of wind, the security
sensors
are actuated, and the police computer concludes that someone is trying to
break in. Go figure.
Another glitch: Whenever the basement is in self-diagnostic mode, the
universal remote won't let me change the channels on my TV. That means I
actually have to get up off the couch and change the channels by hand. The
software and the utility people say this flaw will be fixed in the next
upgrade - SmartHouse 2.1. But it's not ready yet.
====== December 12
This is a nightmare. There's a virus in the house. My personal
computer caught it while browsing on the public access network.
I come home and the living room is a sauna, the bedroom windows are
covered with ice, the refrigerator has defrosted, the washing machine has
flooded the basement, the garage door is cycling up and down, and the TV is
stuck on the home shopping channel. Throughout the house, lights flicker
like stroboscopes until they explode from the strain. Broken glass is
everywhere. Of course, the security sensors detect nothing.
I look at a message slowly throbbing on my personal computer screen:
"Welcome to HomeWrecker!!! Now the Fun Begins ... (Be it ever so humble,
there's no virus like HomeWrecker ... )"
I get out of the house. Fast.
====== December 18
They think they've digitally disinfected the house, but the place is a
shambles. Pipes have burst and we're not completely sure we've got the
part
of the virus that attacks toilets. Nevertheless, the Exorcists (as the
anti-virus SWAT members like to call themselves) are confident the worst is
over.
"HomeWrecker is pretty bad," one tells me, "but consider yourself lucky
you didn't get PolterGeist. That one is really evil."
====== December 19
Apparently, our house isn't insured for viruses. "Fires and mudslides,
yes," says the claims adjuster. "Viruses, no."
My agreement with the SmartHouse people explicitly states that all
claims and warranties are null and void if any appliance or computer in my
house networks in any way, shape or form with a noncertified on-line
service. Everybody's very, very sorry, but they can't be expected to
anticipate every virus that might be created.
We call our lawyer. He laughs. He's excited.
====== December 21
I get a call from a SmartHouse sales rep. As a special holiday offer,
we get the free opportunity to become a beta site for the company's new
SmartHouse 2.1 upgrade. He says I'll be able to meet the programmers
personally. "Sure," I tell him.
Michael Schrage is a columnist for the Los Angeles Times.
Copyright 1993 The Washington Post
|
128.240 | couple more | ICS::STUART | | Fri Dec 17 1993 14:58 | 11 |
|
- Make sure the placement of the furnace, oil tank, water system etc...
are placed as close to each other as code allows to give as much
usable space in the cellar as possible.
- Install a faucet in the garage to run a hose from to wash the cars
in the winter so you don't hassle with the frozen exterior ones.
- Put in plenty of cabinet and closet space.
|
128.241 | | RAGMOP::T_PARMENTER | Here's to you, Dr. Heimlich! | Fri Dec 17 1993 15:03 | 9 |
| Somewhere in here there's another note with the same subject matter.
I'll repeat what I said there:
In certain rooms, living room for instance, lots of outlets with one
plug switched and the other direct.
Plug up high in the kitchen wall for the kitchen clock.
|
128.242 | | CSC32::S_BROOK | There and back to see how far it is | Fri Dec 17 1993 15:04 | 10 |
| When running cords through PVC conduits for later wiring, consider using
continuous cord loops so that way you don't run out of "pull thru's".
Ensure that there are stop valves under every sink so that you can turn
off the water locally to replace the faucet washers etc. It is a real
pain to have to turn the main water valve off to replace a tap washer,
and then discover that the tap concerned uses some unique washer that
isn't in the kit you bought!!!
Stuart
|
128.243 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Dec 17 1993 15:05 | 2 |
| Figure out where to put a towel rod in the kitchen, so the towel
doesn't end up draped over the handle of the refrigerator.
|
128.244 | I've got one, couldn't find a clock with a cord | ASDG::SBILL | | Fri Dec 17 1993 15:13 | 7 |
|
Re a couple back...
Don't bother with the clock outlet. There aren't a whole lot of clocks
out there that don't run on batteries.
Steve B.
|
128.245 | A Light in the Attic | CADSYS::RITCHIE | Gotta love log homes | Fri Dec 17 1993 15:22 | 6 |
| Wire for a light in the attic, one that automatically goes on when the door
is opened (if you have the pulldown stairs), or a pullchain that is right next
to the opening, for the push-up access-way. My first house had one, and we've
added it to every house since. A simple and brilliant idea.
Elaine
|
128.246 | | SNELL::ROBERTS | Gare | Fri Dec 17 1993 18:25 | 2 |
|
install a walk-in gun vault. maybe make it a hidden room.
|
128.247 | FWIW, .0 should of stated .0 is xposted to Real_Estate conference | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, PATHWORKS for Windows NT | Fri Dec 17 1993 20:11 | 0 |
128.248 | footing | SMURF::WALTERS | | Sat Dec 18 1993 15:47 | 9 |
|
another one:
If a deck or deck extension is planned for future, put in pre-cast
footings when you backfill.
|
128.199 | shape of things to come | NOVA::MICHON | | Mon Dec 20 1993 12:00 | 1 |
| Honey, could you answer the TV? Im' watching the phone.
|
128.249 | check these | GRANMA::GHALSTEAD | | Mon Dec 20 1993 19:01 | 23 |
| In my parents house which is 40+ years old they wired the closet lights
so they automatically come on when you open the closet door, its real
inexpensive, and a nice touch.
If you are building fireplace, a conduit for getting gas line into the
fireplace in case you ever want to add gas logs.
If your hot water heater is a distance from some bathrooms, or
kitchen, consider 3rd water pipe so you can constantly circulate
hotwater so it will be instantly available at any faucet. OR, wiring
at remote hot water taps so that small tankless kind of heater can
added at later date.
An electrical outlet in every closet comes in handy for mounting
recharable type applinaces (vaccum, flash light etc.).
What ever room you iron in, mount an outlet at ironing board heigth.
If your electrical panel ends up in a room thats finished, utility,
it is conveinant to have above and below accessible for future electrical
runs coming in from the attic or basement.
|
128.250 | | MKOTS3::PCTOGO::KENNEDY | Matt Kennedy - DTN:264-3423 | Mon Dec 20 1993 19:08 | 10 |
|
- If you celebrate xmas by placing candle lights in the front windows of the house then
if possible put an elec. outlet directly under each front window. No more extension
cords!!!
- If you are considering adding skylights later, select a brand and model and have
the correct rough opening framed in during construction. Then later you simply cutout
the framed opening for installation.
- Matt
|
128.251 | not up to date on code | TLE::MCCARTHY | Back to BASICs | Mon Dec 20 1993 19:51 | 4 |
| >> An electrical outlet in every closet comes in handy for mounting
>> recharable type applinaces (vaccum, flash light etc.).
Mr inspector said this is against code.
|
128.252 | Blueprint | VICKI::DODIER | Cars suck, then they die | Wed Dec 22 1993 15:49 | 6 |
| One thing that you'll find valuable for the future is to document
all your wiring/plumbing runs. It's definitely usefull to have a blueprint
showing these things that you cannot see nor remember long after the
walls are in place.
Ray
|
128.253 | | STAR::DZIEDZIC | Tony Dziedzic - DTN 381-2438 | Wed Dec 22 1993 17:12 | 5 |
| In addition to (or instead of) the blueprint, consider taking LOTS
of photographs of all the walls after all utilities (plumbing,
electrical, heating, etc.) are installed but before any insulation
is installed. These really come in handy when you need to do some
minor additions/remodeling.
|
128.23 | recent guestimates? | BSS::MNELSON | Won't ya try just a little bit harder | Thu Feb 03 1994 13:05 | 6 |
|
Has anyone had a custom house built recently, and if so, any rough
estimates on how much per sqr ft? This note is a couple years old
so any recent guesses would be appreciated?
Mark
|
128.24 | RE: 742.15 | 2HOT::MACPRO::Realmuto | | Thu Feb 03 1994 14:13 | 13 |
| Estimates I've gotten over the last 2 months on a custom 2354 s.f. ranch
with 2 car attached garage worked out to between $72 to $88 per square foot.
This included everything (site prep, home, septic, well, lanscaping, etc)
but the land itself. Since ranches aren't the most efficient cost wise and
my site costs were well above average, a typical custom 2-story home would
probably be at least 10-15% less.
Of course, cost per square foot can be very misleading. The kitchen and
bathrooms cost considerably more "per s.f." than a bedroom, for example.
And the garage isn't included in the square footage when figuring the "cost
per s.f."
--Steve
|
128.25 | | SUBPAC::OLDIGES | | Thu Feb 03 1994 14:14 | 13 |
128.26 | $74 - $96 s.f. | AWECIM::ERICKSON | | Thu Feb 03 1994 18:22 | 21 |
| I am building a 2800 s.f. hip-roof brick-front colonial (2X6). I own the land.
6 quotes from:
A large construction company (approx. 12 house under constr.)
A retired contractor
A very busy one man operation
Two bothers just starting out (First house)
Two partners with 10 years of experience.
One man operation with 15+ years of experience.
Builder's cost approx. $50 - $60 s.f.
$74 - $96 s.f. to build the house.
Add $2,000-$10,000 for going over allowances.
Add $4,000 more for Appliances.
I am building at $76 s.f.
Good luck!
|
128.27 | thanks | BSS::MNELSON | Won't ya try just a little bit harder | Fri Feb 11 1994 14:20 | 5 |
|
Thanks for the recent estimate info. It provides a great starting
point.
Mark Nelson
|
128.338 | We have water! | COOKIE::LAWSON | Carpe Heli Diem, eh? | Wed Feb 16 1994 21:13 | 13 |
| The drillers struck a decent vein today at 215pm (MST), after a
day-an-a-half of drilling. Our well produces just over 3
gallons-per-minute and is FIVE-HUNDRED (500) feet deep!
It had better be damned good water!
3gpm is not bad for this area, remember, Colorado is high desert. 500
feet is about twice the average. Time to start coughing up those
$14/foot.
Yikes. Now I need to find a deep-well pump capable of lifting a 500'
column of water. Where's the power going to come from? At least now I
know.
|
128.339 | Congratulations! | STAR::DIPIRRO | | Thu Feb 17 1994 11:06 | 4 |
| > Yikes. Now I need to find a deep-well pump capable of lifting a 500'
> column of water. Where's the power going to come from?
From your wallet once again, which, hopefully, is as deep as your well.
|
128.276 | ridding cigarette smell? | CUPMK::STEINHART | | Tue May 03 1994 18:37 | 41 |
| I'd like some advice about ridding my home of a cigarette smell.
After a year and lots of ventilation, my townhouse condo still smells
of cigarette smoke. The odor may be coming through the wall from the
neighbors but I dare not say a word to THEM. These people have a
serious 'tude. Or it may be that my previous tenants were the sole
culprits and the source of the odor is inside the unit.
The odor is strongest on the side of the condo that shares a wall with
these neighbors; it concentrates in both bathrooms and the stairwell
landing. Can a cigarette odor come through shared walls? (They have
sound insulation between the wallboards, so they're not TOO flimsy.)
I thorough-cleaned both bathrooms, removing yucky brown tobacco residue
that was mixed with dust in lots of crannies, even took off the ceiling
fan plates and wiped the fan blades. I washed the wall tiles (go 1/2
way up with wallpaper on top) and rinsed with bleach solution. This
helped for a short time.
I am contemplating the following steps to rid this odor:
1. Wash walls with TSP solution. OK for vinyl wallpaper? Likely to
streak painted walls?
2. If that doesn't work, get the whole house painted (interior).
(Drab old paint needs a freshening, anyway, but $ has been scarce, and
painting is NOT in my repertoire.)
3. If that doesn't work, get the carpets professionally cleaned.
(Like the walls, this is overdue anyway, but has been beyond my
budget.)
4. If that doesn't work, get an air cleaner (ionizer or ...?) to use
in the winter when the odor concentrates.
Do you think this is a reasonable course of action? (Moving is not an
option, so no sarcasm please.) Any other suggestions, short of doing
damage to my neighbors?
Thanks,
Laura
|
128.277 | | HYDRA::BECK | Paul Beck | Tue May 03 1994 18:44 | 8 |
| There was a story in the news recently about a lawsuit between
apartment neighbors over cigarette smoke passing between units. It
can and does happen. You might do well to look for places the air
could infiltrate (e.g. where the bathroom fixtures go through the
walls, or along floor-wall connections) and see if any sealing is
possible.
I wonder if an air shredder could help here?
|
128.278 | Exhaust fans? | SSDEVO::JACKSON | Jim Jackson | Tue May 03 1994 19:04 | 3 |
| Do your bathroom exhaust fans share a common duct with your neighbors?
In any case definitely go for thorough carpet cleaning.
|
128.279 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | Time to put the SHARE back in DCU! | Tue May 03 1994 20:23 | 5 |
|
.13> I wonder if an air shredder could help here?
It might -- but you have to be careful about second-hand shredding.
|
128.280 | | TLE::FELDMAN | Software Engineering Process Group | Tue May 03 1994 21:58 | 12 |
| re: .13, .14
>.13> I wonder if an air shredder could help here?
>
> It might -- but you have to be careful about second-hand shredding.
Seriously, you'd probably have to go with an industrial model
(ouch-expensive). While a consumer model can pulverize smoke particles,
they're not really destroyed, just cut into smaller pieces. They'll
still smell.
Gary
|
128.281 | | DAVE::MITTON | Token rings happen | Tue May 03 1994 22:02 | 9 |
| If you can't spring for professional cleaning, the rental carpet
cleaners aren't that expensive. I've seen them all over (hardware
stores, Ames, Kmart, etc.) Expect to buy cleaning fluids as well as
the basic rental.
Cleaning the carpet will make a big difference. There is a lot of dust
and odor in it.
Dave.
|
128.282 | | CUPMK::STEINHART | | Wed May 04 1994 02:33 | 18 |
| Thanks for the replies so far. All suggestions welcome.
I did clean the downstairs carpet myself with a rental machine from the
supermarket. This hasn't made a difference in the odor (which
concentrates in the tiled bathrooms). A cleaning is in order no matter
what, but I doubt it will be decisive.
A fresh coat of paint after washing with TSP will probably make more of
a difference. Is this correct?
Anyway, thanks for the tip about smoke leakage through the fan ducts
and fixtures (in my case, toilets and one sink). I can have the
carpenter check the ducts when he goes up to the attic to install a
whole-house fan in June. Along this line, its curious that I noticed a
pronounced stink in the vanity under the bathroom sink on the common
wall. Maybe the odor is indeed leaching through. Aargh.
Laura
|
128.283 | good luck! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Wed May 04 1994 11:21 | 10 |
|
You might want to check also is if the plumbing wall is a common
one. If so, ad caulk to any plunbing holes in the wall...
IMHO....Painting, cleaning maybe short term. The HHFan will
help. Maybe one of thoes, mount on wall timed deorderizer too..
But your best fix would be, get rid of the source of the smoke! :)
If a least send them an early Christmas present. A HHF of their own!
JD
|
128.284 | | DFSAXP::JP | And the winner is.... | Wed May 04 1994 11:33 | 24 |
| Beware of the whole house fan! If smoke is seeping in to your house
from the neighbors, a whole house fan will make it worse. Typically,
the whole house fan works by drawing air OUT of your house. This means
that air will get drawn In from the open windows, doors AND whatever
paths the smoke is now taking from the neighbors. So, you might end up
making the problem worse, at least in the bathroom.
Since the odor is the worst in the bathroom, it's reasonable to assume
it's coming in from there. So first check for any holes around the
fixtures, and seal them. Do a temporary job at first with tape and
newspaper. If it works, then go for a more permanent solution that is
more resistant to water and fire. Don't forget the electrical outlets
on the common walls. Assuming there is no window in the room, and the
exhaust fan is the only ventialtion, try turning on the fan and leaving
the room sealed for a while (preferably while the neighbors are home).
If the smell is stronger, it's a leak. If it's weaker, the exhaust fan
is suspect.
You might also tie a ribbon onto the fan grate and watch it when the
neighbors use their fan. A common exhaust might be allowing their
exhaust to blow back into your unit. (Don't leave the ribbon on when
you turn on your fan, though!)
Good Luck!
|
128.285 | | MRKTNG::BROCK | Son of a Beech | Wed May 04 1994 12:17 | 8 |
| If the smell is worst in the bathrooms, you almost CERTAINLY share an
exhaust vent pipe with your neighbors. Try removing your fan, and
simply living for a few days with the vent pipe stuffed with a
towel. If this makes it better, you t least know the source of the
problem.
If this IS the problem, you will likely have to reroute the exhaust
systems.
|
128.286 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Wed May 04 1994 12:32 | 2 |
| Or tape a piece of plastic over the fan grille; probably easier
than removing the fan.
|
128.287 | more thanks and more thoughts | CUPMK::STEINHART | | Wed May 04 1994 13:52 | 30 |
| Wow - thank you for all these common-sense ideas!
I looked in the sink vanity and found gaping holes around the sink
pipes. And guess what - they were blackish-brown around the raw edges.
A pretty good indicator, I'd say.
So what do you suggest for caulking up the pipe holes? I do my own
caulking - pretty hard to mess THAT up!
I'll try taping plastic over the fan vents and see if that helps, after
running the fan for awhile, door closed, to see if the smell gets
worse.
The downstairs bath is a puzzle, though. There's only a toilet on the
shared wall with the drain, as usual, through the floor. I'll have to
see if the inlet water pipe goes through the wall... (I think they
usually do?)
Meantime, is it OK to wash vinyl wallpaper with TSP?
I won't install a whole-house fan without thoroughly caulking in the
common wall. Good suggestion. When the carpenter installs it, I'll
have him check the bathroom fan vents, and rig up a separate system if
necessary. I think the net air freshening from the whole-house fan
will exceed any smoke leakage, because the windows will be open. I'll
also use the fan in the winter to briefly ventilate, because I seal all
the windows with plastic. I can close the bathroom doors while I run
the whole-house fan.
Laura
|
128.288 | Pretty Good Stuff... | STRATA::CASSIDY | | Thu May 05 1994 07:36 | 9 |
| > I looked in the sink vanity and found gaping holes around the sink pipes.
> So what do you suggest for caulking up the pipe holes? I do my own
You might be able to seal the gaps with an expanding foam product
called Great Stuff. It bonds instantly to skin and tends to be messy,
so wear the gloves (supplied). BTW, the nozzle will clog up when the
foam inside it dries. Without a nozzle, the can is useless.
Tim
|
128.289 | | PROGID::allen | Christopher Allen, DEC COBOL, ZKO 381-0864 | Thu May 05 1994 15:05 | 4 |
| When you clean your hands off with acetone after the job is done, clean out the
nozzle and the little straw with the acetone too.
-Chris
|
128.290 | another suggestion | PASTA::MCDONALD | | Thu May 12 1994 16:12 | 4 |
| You can add an air exchanger that looks like an air conditioner.
It exchanges air in the house without loosing heat.
Bill
|
128.291 | plans in place | CUPMK::STEINHART | | Thu May 12 1994 17:28 | 18 |
| This weekend I plan to use Great Stuff to plug the holes in the shared
walls where the plumbing goes through. Running the bathroom exhaust
fans noticeably increases the smoke odor.
I'm having all the carpets professionally cleaned next week.
If I have the energy, I'll wash the bathroom wallpaper with a mild
solution of TSP. Maybe do a few other walls, too.
If all this doesn't help, the likely next step is to have all the
interior walls and ceilings painted. But I have a hunch that won't be
necessary to get rid of the odor.
I'll probably install a whole-house fan for summer cooling anyway, so
that should provide enough periodic ventilation in the winter.
Thanks, and keep 'em coming because I check this note,
Laura
|
128.292 | mission successful (soon, anyway) | CUPMK::STEINHART | | Mon May 23 1994 06:07 | 16 |
| I got the carpets professionally cleaned by a local Chem-Dry franchise.
I highly recommend this process which doesn't soak the backing. It got
rid of most of the house odors.
Got Great Stuff and TSP, hope to soon plug leaks around pipes
(obviously a source of cig odor) and wash bathroom wallpaper for any
residual cig condensation.
Still have slight musty odor, tracked this to a vent and occasionally
open door to the below-level family room. If I get ambitious, I'll
attach some sort of temporary solid cover over or under the floor vent.
The rotating metal grate flaps don't help much.
Thanks for the suggestions. The problem is close to being licked.
Laura
|
128.340 | Size of a Colonial Saltbox? | BUDWSR::CUNNINGHAM | | Fri Dec 02 1994 17:57 | 12 |
|
I thumbed thru this notes file but couldn't find a topic that
covered standard house sizes.
I was wondering if anyone knew what the standard size of a Colonial
Saltbox was, (40 long x 38 wide??). Didn't know if someone just
built one or might just know of the top of their head. I know that
there probably are no standard sizes but I was just looking for
a rough estimate...
thanks,
/jim
|
128.341 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Dec 02 1994 18:07 | 13 |
| I think applying the notion of "standards" to colonial houses is
overreaching a bit!
It might help to think of what a saltbox house really was,
originally: usually a two rooms down, two rooms up house with a
one-story lean-to shed on the back with a triangular attic space
above it that might hold other (cramped) rooms or just storage.
Also think of how such a house would be framed with timber framing.
I lived in a for-real colonial saltbox for a while. It was quite
a house. The original two-down, two-up house had a hip roof, and
the later added lean-to addition on the back was of course just
a regular sloping roof.
|
128.254 | advice on house buying | 2913::BISWAS | | Tue May 02 1995 14:22 | 21 |
| Hi,
We are in the process of hunting for a house and unfortunately this is
becoming a time-consuming, extremely tedious effort. Recently we found
a house that we like a lot but it had radon problem once upon a time
and the owners fixed it. I am worried about the re-sale value of the
house. I did look into the radon notefile and except few I read thru
most of them. I did not find any note detailig buying a house with the
problem fixed.
On another note, how does one feel about a house that is situates in
a corner lot. Is that a major disadvantage ? This house is on a corner
lot or rather a wide fork. The two street only lead into the
development and both are part of the development and there fore very
quiet. The house is built with a lot of ground in the front so it sits
away from the road.
Any advice is welcome
Kasturi
|
128.255 | Etc. | TLE::PERARO | | Tue May 02 1995 14:38 | 17 |
|
We had looked at a house in Marlboro. It's original owner had put an
addition on it with cedar blocks. We liked the house, but it was small.
Over a year later we were still looking. We were taken back to the
house, as we did not remember it, and the people who bought it had a
radon problem. Must have been found when the had the house inspected
when the bought it. They installed a pipeing system that they said
relieved the problem, but even with that the level was down to about
2%, no guarantee it wouldn't increase.
We knew about radon, we had read about it when we started looking. We
walked away from the house for several reasons, 1) it being a potential
health problem, and 2) being a resale problem.
Mary
|
128.256 | Xref | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, That Group | Tue May 02 1995 15:13 | 9 |
| See topic 3013. Also note .0 is cross-posted to the Real_Estate
conference.
340 TRACTR::DOWNS 27-AUG-1986 49 Radon Gas Developments ?????
1814 TRACTR::DOWNS 21-DEC-1987 66 Getting Radon Gas Out!!
2631 MPGS::BARWISE 13-SEP-1988 56 Radon Gas Testing
3013 IMBACQ::SCHMIDT 13-FEB-1989 10 RADON -- Does it make for a bad investment?
3128 SALEM::ANDREWS 28-MAR-1989 27 Radon in well water
3795 COOKIE::SANDERSON 19-APR-1990 4 DIY installation of Radon Mitigation systems
|
128.28 | | MNATUR::LISTON | No Goals - No Glory - Attitude is Everything! | Mon Jun 12 1995 19:10 | 10 |
128.29 | the long answer is... | BIRDIE::JGREEN | Living beyond my emotional means | Mon Jun 12 1995 20:38 | 20 |
| I ended my research in November when we closed on a 8 year old home. At
that point, I had been quoted $62 -$85 / sq-ft, plus land for a 2400
sq-ft Colonial type thing with an attached 2 car. The garage came in
pretty consistent @ $15K (24' x 28'), living space at the above range.
That was for Rockingham county area.
Existing homes were relatively cheap compared to the cost of building.
Where we hadn't found the 'perfect' chunk of land yet, it wasn't
financially practical to build. What we wanted wasn't that different
from the rest of the homes available. If we had inherited a lot of
land, or found a nice flat, dry lot, that wasn't filthy with ledge, in
a nice development , we would have built as we loved the house we
designed on paper. :^)
$95-$100 sounds high but a lot varies once you start getting into the
options. Solid surface counter tops, jacuzzi, hardwood floors, italian
marble foyer, over-sized windows, solid core doors.... it all costs
money.
~jeff
|
128.30 | | WAHOO::LEVESQUE | Mr Blister | Wed Jun 14 1995 12:55 | 3 |
| We're building a house in Hudson, NH, and it's going to be around
$70-75 /ft^2 including a 2 car attached garage and the land (.75
acres).
|
128.31 | How about Colorado? | SPECXN::CONLON | | Wed Jun 14 1995 19:24 | 6 |
| Does anyone know what the average cost to build (per square foot)
is in Colorado Springs (in the back of the Mountain Shadows area,
for example?)
Thanks,
Suzanne
|
128.257 | HELP needed on 1785 house | WMOIS::POIRIER | | Mon Sep 25 1995 17:53 | 19 |
|
Gordon Poirier
WMOIS::POIRIER
dtn 264-3392
First, thanks Tim for the pointer to this conference!
My wife and I are looking at a house built in 1785 to restore, yes,
1785 I didn't think there were any of these left. Well, the question
is, does anyone out there know of any good restoration people. The house
will be on going so time is on our side, for awhile anyway. This is our
third "restore" job and our most difficult to date that's why the need
for help. The house is in the Barre area.
Hey, wonder if channel 2 would like to help out on this one-ya, right!
Thanks,
Gordon
|
128.258 | Not so fast, TOH might be interested... | ASDG::CRIPPEN | | Mon Sep 25 1995 18:28 | 15 |
|
Don't be so fast to write off This Old House. Depending where you live
and what theme they might have in mind for next season, you might have
a chance. I sent in a proposal 2 years ago for work on a Victorian and
got a personal phone call from the producer. He said he'd love to do
our house, but that it was too far out of Boston (I live in Winchendon)
to drag a camera crew every week. It seems that when they stay in
Mass. they like to keep the budget as small as possible.
If your up to the work, give it a try. A good presentation is
essential though, so get to the library, historical society, etc. and
find out as much about the house as you can. You might get lucky....
Stu (who lives too far out of Boston) :^)
|
128.259 | | SHRMSG::BUSKY | | Mon Sep 25 1995 19:03 | 9 |
| > got a personal phone call from the producer. He said he'd love to do
> our house, but that it was too far out of Boston (I live in Winchendon)
Winchendon and Barre are both in "Indian country" as far as
Bostonian's are concerned!
Ya see, first there's Bahstan, then there's Metro West (inside of
128, MAYBE inside of 495), then there's Injun country after that
all the way out to 'LA. ;-)
|
128.260 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Sep 26 1995 11:54 | 9 |
| re: .2 and geography
You've got it about right. I grew up in Williamstown, the extreme
northwest corner of the state, and one year the annual state teacher's
conference, usually held in Boston, was held in "the western part of
the state" so the teachers from out that way wouldn't have to drive
so far.
They held the meeting in Framingham.
|
128.261 | is that near mehfuh ? | ICS::STUART | I drive route zoo | Tue Sep 26 1995 12:48 | 7 |
|
Anything " westa Wuhstuh " is beyond the bounds of civilization.
|
128.262 | | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Tue Sep 26 1995 13:10 | 13 |
|
Well, I wouldn't call them "restoration people"... but my father-in-law
is a carpenter in Barre (lived there all his life) and he and his
cronies have been fixing/restoring/modifying all the oooold houses in
Barre for years. They've seen and tackled just about anything you could
come up with in an old house.
Your main problem will be getting ANYONE to go out there... (part of
the reason he and his crew are able to earn a living without straying
far from town... while working pretty cheap).
- Mac
|
128.263 | have the name of a spackler - that's it | LJSRV2::SCHLENER | | Wed Sep 27 1995 12:40 | 18 |
| Since my house is older than that... and we live in Phillipston you'd
think that I'd have some names to give you. Unfortunately, my husband
and I did all the work ourselves (new kitchen, new windows, spackling
etc). Ugh - living for a house is great for 2 years or less but not for
7+ years! However we did hire someone to spackle our living room
(about an 18' x 20' room - would have taken me years to have done it!)
this fall. His name is Mike Turner (Phillipston) and he did a really
good job. Unfortunately he's a contractor and the promise that the
work would get done in 4 days stretched out to 2 weeks (without a
living room/ family room - and all that furniture stored in our other
rooms). I guess that's typical of a contractor.
Depending upon what you need done you can find the individual
contractors here in this notesfile. However if you want to hire a
contractor to subcontract etc... I don't have any names for you.
Good luck. Next time my husband and I buy an old house I hope we don't
have to replace the kitchen!
Cindy
|
128.311 | | CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Thu Dec 28 1995 16:21 | 83 |
128.342 | shutting down a house | USMV01::DOUCETTE | Use your judgement | Tue Jan 30 1996 12:32 | 7 |
|
On returning home, after a vacation on the west coast, we found
our water heater had failed and created a minor flood in the
basement. A relative wanted to know why we didn't turn the water
off when we left. I never gave this much thought, but what are some
of the things people do to "shutdown" the house when leaving for
an extended period of time.
|
128.343 | Power and feed water | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Tue Jan 30 1996 14:15 | 11 |
| If you turn the water off to the house, and you have FHW heat, you
should also turn the furnace off. In the winter, this would only be an
option if you drained the whole system so that pipes didn't freeze and
crack.
If you have an electric hot water heater, I would turn the power
off to that *only* if it has a seperate shut off valve (which it
should). You should never turn the water off to a hot water heater of
any kind unless you can turn the power off to it as well.
Ray
|
128.344 | This comes from experience | GENRAL::KILGORE | The UT Desert Rat living in CO | Tue Jan 30 1996 14:47 | 23 |
| For extended periods of time (longer than a few weeks), it is recommended
that a refrigerator/freezer be emptied. We learned the hard way when one
failed at a summer cabin of my in-laws. Very nasty to clean up. Turn off
the water, turn down the HW heater or off completely. If gone during the
winter and the area is known for harsh winter freezes, we drain and blow
out the water pipes and leave the faucets open, drain the HW heater and
turn off power/fuel to it. Don't forget to drain the spigots located on
the outside of the house. Set the furnace to lowest setting or completely
shut down the furnace. This depends on whether there is artwork in the home
that needs to have a stable temperature/humidity. Close the flues on all
woodstoves/fireplaces. Ensure all windows and doors are secure. Unplug
garage door openers and secure garage doors.
When you return, remember to clean/check your smoke detectors and replace
the batteries (if used). If pipes were drained, close all faucets then turn
the water back on and listen for water escaping from broken pipes. Even the
best drain job may not be enough to keep pipes from freezing and splitting
or breaking.
Even if just gone for a weekend we shut off the water and turn the HW heater
to the lowest setting. We've seen the results of a pipe that broke when a
house was empty. Ruined hardwood floors, items in basement damaged, huge
water bill, etc.
|
128.345 | Watch those hoses | SMURF::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Tue Jan 30 1996 15:05 | 4 |
| The other big killer is those rubber hoses on the washing machine. Make sure
you shut the valves. If one of those hoses burst, you'll have a real mess
even if you have someone regularly watching the house. Also make sure the
shutoff is clearly marked so they can deal with the worst case.
|
128.346 | | ODIXIE::ZOGRAN | Atlanta, Home of the WS Champs | Wed Jan 31 1996 13:11 | 6 |
| (Not to start a rathole) I replaced the rubber hoses on my washer with
braided steel ones that I got at HD. Less than $10 each (I think).
Did this after I heard about one of the rubber ones bursting a ruining
a whole level of hardwood floors.
Dan
|
128.347 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Jan 31 1996 17:27 | 5 |
| Note that the "braided steel" hoses are simply rubber (or plastic) hoses with
a braided steel sheath. The sheath prevents the hose from bursting, which
is good, but don't assume the entire hose is steel.
Steve
|
128.348 | | EVMS::MORONEY | Operation Foot Bullet | Wed Jan 31 1996 18:51 | 10 |
| I assume the failure mode of washer hoses is probably similar to automobile
radiator hoses left on too long.
The walls weaken over time and the hose, without internal strength, swells like
a balloon. The "balloon" bursts.
The steel brading provides strength to the hose even when the hose itself
no longer has enough strength. Aircraft have used these for a while for
their hoses, and some people use them for their car radiator hoses (often
for the wrong reason, though [looks 'cool'])
|
128.349 | aeroquip (tm) | AIMTEC::STDBKR::Burden_d | Keep Cool with Coolidge | Wed Jan 31 1996 19:46 | 9 |
| >their hoses, and some people use them for their car radiator hoses (often
>for the wrong reason, though [looks 'cool'])
But a better comparision would be the braided steel lines for oil and brake
lines. These work very well and are a good example of a high pressure/temp
application. However, using them for the washing machine does sound like a
good idea.
Dave
|