T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
186.1 | 2 car attached on a cap | NATASH::MCGREAL | Pat McGreal | Tue Oct 14 1986 16:33 | 25 |
| I am also planning on building a 2 car 24' x 24' attached to my
cape. The only differences are that I don't have a shed dormer
and my dinning room is a bump out that is 10' x 12' on the same side
of the house where the garage will be. A top view of the house looks
something like this.
----------------------
! !
!____ !
! !
! !
-----------------
I am proposing to have the garage roof be parallel to the existing
roof line. There is a house in my neighborhood that has the
garage roof perpendicular to the house roof lines. This looks quite
nice and the pitch of the roof is the same as that of the house.
My concern is that the roofing is more complex when two roof sections
are perpendicular to one another. This will be the largest project
I have undertaken and I don't want to get in over my head.
I have not fully resolved how I will deal with the roof lines
issues. I am interested in what you decide to do with your
project.
Pat McGreal
|
186.2 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | | Wed Oct 15 1986 11:40 | 6 |
| One advantage to having the garage doors in the "end" of the building
(under the peak) rather than coming in the side: the rain running
off the roof won't be going down your neck when you get out to open
the garage door on bad days.
Steve
|
186.3 | electric door opener | NATASH::MCGREAL | Pat McGreal | Wed Oct 29 1986 11:49 | 13 |
| < Note 418.2 by AUTHOR::WELLCOME >
> One advantage to having the garage doors in the "end" of the building
> (under the peak) rather than coming in the side: the rain running
> off the roof won't be going down your neck when you get out to open
> the garage door on bad days.
Just get a garage door opener and you won't have to get out at all...
Pat
|
186.4 | Copper/* roofing? | YODA::BARANSKI | Searching for Lowell Apartmentmates... | Tue Feb 17 1987 18:42 | 10 |
| Does anyone know anything about using roofing materials other then the standard
ashpalt singles? what about clay/slate/* tiles or copper/tin/galvanized/*
sheathing? If you used these, would you still need to ventilate the roof during
the winter? (the big reason for this seems to be to prevent cooking your
shingles)
Cost??? I expect it to be more, but maybe If I hijack a semi load of sheet
copper... I've always liked the look of the green patina of aged copper...
Jim.
|
186.5 | Slate is no problem, if you have the $ | DRUID::CHACE | | Tue Feb 17 1987 19:37 | 10 |
| The biggest reason for attic venting is to allow moisture which
has risen from the heated space below to escape, rather than to
condense on the cold rafters and roof decking. If this is allowed
to happen for any length of time, the rafters and roof decking rot.
I have worked with slate a little. It isn't hard to install, but
it is slower and MUCH more expensive than asphalt. How about real
cedar shingles?
Kenny
|
186.6 | | ALIEN::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Feb 17 1987 19:38 | 24 |
| The reason for venting the roof is to give condensation from the house a chance
to escape so that it doesn't soak your insulation and rot out your roof. So no
matter what roofing you put up, you'll need to provide venting.
Asphalt shingles are typical of American thinking. In the short run, they are
the cheapest available form of roofing. In the long run, they are probably one
of the most expensive. Sure they're cheap, but the best asphalt shingles carry
a 25 year warranty. Cedar shingles will last 100 years, and many of the other
options mentioned, copper, slate, and especially tile will last many hundreds
of years. The down side of course is that they will cost much more, sometimes
more than an entire order of magnitude. Don't forget that for many of these
options, the roof needs to be much stronger to hold them up.
An interesting option that I've read about is metal terne roofing. It is a
multi-layer metal alloy that comes in wide pans. It is left natural, or it can
be painted, and it lasts for hundreds of years. It is applied by a cleat that
is nailed to the roof, pans are laid between the cleats, and a special crimping
machine clamps them all together. Needless to say this is not a DIY job.
In short, although asphalt shingles are inferior to almost every other form of
roofing available, if you want any other option, be prepared to spend several
thousand dollars for it.
Paul
|
186.7 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Wed Feb 18 1987 13:14 | 14 |
| I looked into aluminum shingles as a possibility. You've probably
seen them on the false fronts of gas stations and fast-food places,
in day-glo orange or something. They also come in more aesthetic
colors, allegedly looking like weathered shakes. I got some samples
from a place in Manchester, NH (can't remember the name offhand)
and they wern't too bad looking. $112/square, roughly, and supposedly
good for 50+ years. Easy to put on, they claim; probably true if
you've done it once. I eventually decided not to get them because
my roof has lots of valleys and angles and I wondered if the local
roofers would know how to do the job properly. I also decided that
they looked too massive for my house, and they would be impossible
to walk on if I ever needed to get up on the roof. But they do
have a lot of advantages. I think they would look really good with
a brick house.
|
186.8 | then again there's.. | FROST::SIMON | Mister Diddy Wah Diddy? | Wed Feb 18 1987 14:27 | 5 |
|
You could always look into an "Earth Roof", but you'd have to
build quite a sturdy structure to hold it up.
-gary
|
186.9 | | SMAUG::FLEMING | | Wed Feb 18 1987 15:41 | 9 |
| in response to .2
"cedar roofs will last 100 years" , come on, 30 or 40 years is more
like it.
In passing, I bought the materials to put on a cedar roof for about
the same amount as it would have cost to have a ashphalt room
installed. It was a lot of work, much more then it looks, but it
was worth it.
|
186.10 | consider steel | CORE::PATTERSON | The process is the product | Wed Feb 18 1987 16:37 | 13 |
| I looked into copper roofing about 4 years ago when I re-roofed
my house. However, the cost was too much. I eventually did it
with steel - it comes in sheets about 3' wide and cut to any length
you want. There are many colours and patterns (size and shape of
ridges) available. I think it cost me about $.50/sq. foot whereas
the price for copper was about $3.00/sq. foot. Also, the steel
came ready to apply to the roof - the copper was flat sheets, meaning
that you would have to have ridges formed in it and maybe brazed(sp?)
together.
In my opinion, the ease of application of the steel compared
to asphalt shingles (scraped knuckles and a lot of nailing) outweighs
the difference in price.
_Neil P.
|
186.11 | Simple questions | JOET::JOET | | Wed Feb 18 1987 18:53 | 9 |
| re: steel roofing
What do you do to prevent rust?
Isn't it noisy in the rain/sleet/etc.?
Does the snow slip off easily?
-joet
|
186.12 | Why Not Asphalt/Fiberglass ??? | TRACTR::DOWNS | | Thu Feb 19 1987 11:00 | 18 |
| I feel steel/aluminum works well in areas where snow fall is very
heavy, upper New England, Canada, etc.,. These types of roof will
shed the snow load every so often and deposit it along the edge
of your house. The sheet metal roof are noisey and harder to work
on when they need repairs (painting, renailing, sealing, etc.,.)
but some people really like there old country appearance. Cedar
shingles look great but try walking over a seasoned wood shingle
roof......
Asphalt/fiberglass shingles have numerous advantages over older
style roofing materials. They are easily installed, light in weight,
easily repaired, easy to walk on (important if your a wood burner
who likes to clean your chimney alot), fire retardent, come in every
color of the rainbow, inexpensive, most newer shingles will last
25+ years (most people don't live in the same house 25+ years anyway)
etc.,...... Today's asphalt/fiberglass shingles come in so many
styles, anywhere from architectural cedar looking shingles, to roll
shingling, so why would you want anything else?
|
186.13 | | CORE::PATTERSON | The process is the product | Thu Feb 19 1987 11:15 | 17 |
| re .7
rust: the top of sheets are coloured, the bottom is galvanized.
noisy: can't hear a thing in the house because the attic is
insulated, but in the garage one can hear the rain -
I kinda like it!
snow slides: the first 2 years no snow could stay on the roof,
but the steel seems to have lost some of its slip now.
My roof's slope is `6 in 12', but most bungalows today
are built `4 or 5 in 12'. I can walk on my roof in
running shoes without slipping.
The only problem with steel roofing is the flashing around the
plumbing vent - not as easy as with asphalt shingles.
p.s. to joet::joet. How did you enter that `o with 2 dots' into
your personal name?
|
186.14 | | JOET::JOET | | Thu Feb 19 1987 16:17 | 11 |
| re: .9
> p.s. to joet::joet. How did you enter that `o with 2 dots' into your
> personal name?
On a VT2xx (I use a VAXstation II/GPX, but it has a VT200 emulator in
it) type the sequence <Compose Character><o><"> (leaving out the >'s
and <'s). All of the characters are described in the VT2xx Owner's
Manual.
-joet
|
186.15 | OHJ | VIDEO::DCL | David Larrick | Thu Feb 19 1987 17:19 | 7 |
186.16 | Super Warranties for Real? | 37989::SUNG | Hoopbusters - de agony of de feet | Mon Feb 23 1987 00:54 | 15 |
| Everyone has been talking about 25-50 year guarantees on various
roofing materials. Now seriously, most people don't even own their
homes that long. In any case, a shingle fails to give adequate
performance... so how in the world do you collect on your warranty?
Remove it, take it back to where you bought it (assuming they're
still in business), show them the original receipt (yeh right!)
and have them give you a replacement shingle (assuming they still
have the same color and style)??!
I was always wondering how these super-extended warranties work
especially for construction items which do not necessarily have
the brand listed on it (like pressure treated wood). Anybody
ever exercise their guarantee on this stuff?
-al
|
186.17 | another one | Q::ROSENBAUM | Rich Rosenbaum;mail->Boehm::Rosenbaum | Mon Feb 23 1987 02:09 | 4 |
| re: .-1 (extended warrantee's)
I hope all you people buying silicone based adhesives are holding
on to your receipts for fifty years...
|
186.21 | time for a new roof | MIZZEN::DEMERS | No NeWS is Good NeWS | Mon Feb 23 1987 16:15 | 17 |
| Well, this winter's snow has managed to deal my roof the final blow.
I'm preparing for the 'professionals' by trying to read and learn
more than them (so I can stay one step ahead!).
I welcome any words of wisdom on this topic. Areas of concern:
- some gutters need to be replaced - are gutters just 'gutters'?
- should I consider taking off the old roof to save money (and possibly
lose my life!)?
- types of roofing shingles
- time for a ridge vent?
- recommendations in the greater Hudson(MA) area.
tnx,
Chris
|
186.22 | Here's one to watch out for! | SYSENG::MORGAN | | Tue Feb 24 1987 13:22 | 33 |
| Chris,
I can tell you this much. DO NOT CONTRACT THE JOB TO CARMEN DIPIETRO,
of Stow, Ma.
I live in Maynard and the Dipietro name is typically synonomous with
roofing jobs throughout the area. Unfortunately, I didn't ask for
references because of this. Big mistake. It turns out it was his
father, brother, or cousing that earned the accolades.
I got a phone call from my wife one morning last summer. She was
in tears. Water was literally pouring in our kitchen (newly plastered
walls and ceiling) and dining room. This is the bottom floor.
All four rooms upstairs also got a heavy shower from Mother Nature.
The fool had stripped the roof but failed to cover it with anything
for the weekend. If you recall, last summer was quite wet. He
then had the audacity to ask me for "another $500 for materials".
By this time I had already given him ~50% of the estimate. Needless
to say that was all he got. I was compensated handsomely by insurance,
but to see 3 years worth of work get flushed down the tubes in one
day really hurt.
He also said the job would take 1.5 weeks to complete (it took 9 weeks).
Be very wary of roofing contractors. I'm sure there are many reputable
outfits out there, but there are also some real losers.
Stripping the roof yourself is usually not the best of jobs, but
it is something that can be done pretty easily. The big problem is
getting rid of the stuff.
Steve
|
186.23 | When to Re-Roof? | FRSBEE::PAGLIARULO | | Tue Feb 24 1987 13:37 | 10 |
| How can you tell when a roof needs to be replaced? I'm assuming that
there are warning signs before you reach the wet wall stage. My roof is 17 yrs.
old and is starting to look kind of worn and brittle.
I've been told taht if you only have one layer of shingles on the roof
you can apply a second right on top of it and don't have to strip anything.
When you are applying a second course of asphalt shingles over the first is
there anything you have to be careful of or can you just get up there and
start nailing? Does anything have to be protected from the rain while work is
in progress?
|
186.24 | | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Feb 24 1987 14:42 | 17 |
| > When you are applying a second course of asphalt shingles over the first is
> there anything you have to be careful of or can you just get up there and
> start nailing? Does anything have to be protected from the rain while work is
> in progress?
If the shingles are still flat on the roof, yes, you can just start nailing.
It goes fairly easily because you don't need to worry about snapping chalklines
or anything, just butt the new shingles up against the edges of the old ones,
and they serve as a guide. You will need longer nails - say, 1 3/4". If the
edges of the shingles have started to curl, then you really ought to strip the
roof. You do need to worry a little about rain, since water will be able to
get under the new shingles until you finish, but a solid bead of roofing tar
along the top seam ought to keep things pretty dry. But unless you've got a
huge roof, if you have all the prep work done beforehand and if you get a
couple of friends to help, you ought to be able to do it in a weekend.
Paul
|
186.25 | Try Assabet Roofing | HPSCAD::GODSELL | | Tue Feb 24 1987 15:12 | 8 |
| to .0
My roof was replaced two years ago (over the old roof) and
it was done by Assabet Roofing (Hudson Ma). They did a
good job and it took , as I recall, about 3 or 4 days.
Sue
|
186.26 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Tue Feb 24 1987 19:17 | 7 |
| I'm a great believer in taking off the old shingles in all cases.
I think the new shingles stand up a little better if they aren't
put over old shingles, but that's mostly personal opinion. You
could strip the roof yourself, it's just hard work with the off
chance of falling on your head. You'll need a BIG tarp or two to
cover up with. Having done one roof and proved to myself I can do
it, I'm paying somebody next time.
|
186.27 | 30 feet is too high for me | MIZZEN::DEMERS | No NeWS is Good NeWS | Tue Feb 24 1987 19:36 | 8 |
| Steve,
I plan on spending the summer on my back; floating in my pool, not
flat in a hospital bed. But, I just got done dealing with
'professional' kitchen installers that kept me on my toes even after
doing all my homework. I want to be prepared for this as well.
Anyway, I'm not crazy about heights, a rather large handicap!
C
|
186.28 | stripping is good for you... | TOYBOX::BENNETT | blue skies and tailwinds... | Tue Feb 24 1987 21:24 | 8 |
| Re: stripping the old roof... I believe that most shingle-makers
will not honor a warantee unless their product is the first and
only layer. Thus, it doesn't matter whether you buy the 15, 20,
or 25 year variety of shingle - if it lifts and curls in 5 years
it's not their concern.
-Steve
|
186.18 | warranty 25 years or 1 hail storm whichever..... | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | | Wed Feb 25 1987 03:16 | 11 |
| In Colorado Springs the life span of a shingle is rated in hail
storms 8-) I have replaced my roof(insurance paid) once in the 3
years I've had the house and it had been replaced the year i bought.
My parents on the other hand have replaced theirs 6 times in the
17 years they have owned it.
Who worries about if it will last 25 years when you get a new one
every 3-5 years.8-) Actually given the choice I would rather wait
and see if they would last.
-j
|
186.29 | a little info from past experience | STUBBI::J_BOUTHIETTE | | Wed Feb 25 1987 11:36 | 20 |
| Re:stripping the old roof...I had worked as a carpenter for approx
10 yrs before coming to DEC I would strongly suggest stripping
the old roof if it is curled or buckled at all. The shingle
manufactures will guarantee their product for up to 2 layers. Also
there is a new product out , by Bird , to help prevent ice backup
leaks. I cannot remember the name of the product but it has been
used quite a bit lately and is highly recommended by my father who
has been in the business for over 30 yrs! It is a rolled rubber
type sheet the has a self sticking back, comes in 3 and 5 foot wide
rolls. The soft rubber seals the nail holes so that if water backs
up under the shingles it does not penetrate the rubber sheet!
AS far as different types of gutters , there are different grades
as with any product. Be sure to get a good grade to prevent bending
under snow and ice loads!! Do not put up the 10 foot sections from
places like Somervill lumber ect, not worth the savings!!!
hope this helps
john-
|
186.30 | roof's definitely coming off | MIZZEN::DEMERS | No NeWS is Good NeWS | Wed Feb 25 1987 16:23 | 15 |
| re .8
I definitely will take off this layer. I need to assess any damage
done to the soffet and facia. I also have a cedar dripedge that
has disintegrated and may have damaged the plywood. I did see that
Bird product on "This Old House" and I do plan on putting it down.
My gutters on the original part of the house appear to be in good
shape. They're one piece. The addition has the cheap ones pieced
together and they're falling apart, not to mention that they
*constantly* leak at the seams.
Thanks to all for your comments. Still looking for more
recommendations (if any exist!).
C
|
186.31 | Yes for a ridge vent | TALLIS::GALLAGHER | | Wed Feb 25 1987 16:50 | 24 |
|
Regarding installing a ridge vent, I intend to reroof this spring,
and am planning to install a ridge vent (see the huge note about
ice damms a little ways back). I also plan to use the Bird product
since I have nasty ice damming on the rear roof (which also happens
to face the Northeast side of the world).
Ridge vents are a very good idea, but in order to work correctly
they need to be installed in conjunction with soffit vents. If
you don't have soffit vents already, you'd be best to go with the
continuous type. If you already have soffit vents, you may need
to add more, since there is a ratio of ridge venting to soffit venting
you should follow. The reason is that the ridge vent has the effect
of "sucking" outdoor air in through the soffit vents, and then
exhausting the air and moisture through the ridge vent. If you
only have a partially ventilated soffit, depending on the pitch
of your roof, the areas of the ridge vent without matching soffit
vents could have negative pressure and let the weather in.
All in all though, the installation of this venting system is pretty
simple and straightforward, keeps a cool roof and attic, and doesn't
really cost too much.
Good luck
|
186.19 | | MILT::JACKSON | So many Arbys, so little time | Wed Feb 25 1987 18:20 | 41 |
| my father and I installed a terne (is that how it's spelled) roof
on his house about 4 years ago. At that time, there was only one
place in the COUNTRY that sold the stuff. (it was Follansbee Steel,
in Folansbee WVA) Terne is tin plated so it doesn't rust, and is
usually painted on the outside.
Each of the sheets is shaped like this:
__ ___
| | |
| |
------------------------
You lay them on the roof with small little straps that are nailed
into the roof and hook over the working end (that is the one without
the extra little piece of metal that hangs down)
Then you lay the next piece on, and crimp the pieces together.
What this gives you is a roof that looks like this (this is known
as a "standing seam" roof)
_____|______________|______________|____
It was VERY expensive for him to do this. I think it came out to
be somewhere around 4 times the cost of an asphalt roof. He did
it because he has an antique farmhouse in western Pa, and it was
originally built with a metal roof, and also because he likes the
looks of the standing seam roof (it does look nice) There can be
NO roof under it and there must be space between the roof boards
to allow the roof to breathe (else it will rust from the inside
out)
He painted the roof the next year (so that it had some time to
wash the oil off the roof) and figures that he'll have to paint
it every 8 or so years. With regular painting, it shoudl last well
over 150 years (that's how old the roof on the barn is, we think)
-bill
|
186.32 | You have the ridge vent 'formula'? | BEING::PETROVIC | If you don't do it, no one will | Thu Feb 26 1987 13:24 | 11 |
| re: .-1
> If you already have soffit vents, you may need
> to add more, since there is a ratio of ridge venting to soffit venting
> you should follow.
Can you enlighten us to that formula? I've got 30' of vent on a 40'
ranch roof with 4 16"X8" (or thereabouts) soffit vents on each side. I
was contemplating adding two more on each side, but if what I've got is
enough...why bother?
|
186.33 | To further confuse the issue... | JOET::JOET | | Thu Feb 26 1987 13:33 | 16 |
| I just read (Home Mechanix?) that there is a formula for how much
venting you need in your attic. The article said that you need
1/150 of your attic's square footage (if there is such a a word)
as gable venting.
What this has to do with ridge vents, I don't know. If the
relationship holds for them also, I don't know if that would be
total, or you'd need that amount in the ridge vent and an equal
amount from your eaves.
-joet
P.S. Excess ridge venting would cause the low-pressure scenario
described, but I can't imagine how excess eave venting could cause a
problem.
|
186.34 | | TALLIS::GALLAGHER | | Thu Feb 26 1987 17:25 | 10 |
|
Re. 12
I have a handout (filed somewhere) I obtained a couple of years ago when I
took a homebuilding course at the Greater Lowell Regional Vocational
School. The article was about attic venting, the different systems
and the ratios. The article was *very* clear and in-depth. I'll
locate the article, and reiterate the portions about the ventilaton
and venting systems here.
/Dave
|
186.35 | Attic venting | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Thu Mar 05 1987 12:36 | 24 |
| I had some time to kill at home this morning, and I remembered to find the Fine
Homebuilding article on attic venting. The article says that you should aim
for 1.5 cfm of ventilation per square foot of attic floor area. To achieve
this, you need to figure the Net Free Ventilation (NFVA) area necessary, which
is a measure in square inches of how much air a vent will let through. The
NFVA necessary is different depending on what kinds of vents you use, a ridge
vent is approximately twice as efficient as gable vents.
Anyway, to figure the NFVA necessary, find the square footage of your attic,
and multiply by 1.5, if using a ridge vent, or by 3, if using gable vents.
This will give you the NFVA in square inches. This area should be equally
divided between intake (soffit) and exhaust (gable or ridge) vents, and the
soffit vents should also be divided equally to each side of the roof. For
ridge vents, figure 18 sq in of ventilation area per lineal foot.
So, for example, suppose you have a 24x40 house and are using a ridge vent.
That's 960 sq ft of attic space. Multiplied by 1.5, gives 1440 sq in of
venting necessary. 40 feet of ridge vent gives 720 sq in, or exactly half of
that (makes you think someone planned it that way). You would then need to put
360 sq inches of ventilation area in each soffit. The article also mentions
that if you back up the soffit vents with screening, you should add 25% to the
area.
Paul
|
186.20 | EASY WITH ONDULINE ! | CNTROL::STLAURENT | | Thu Mar 12 1987 16:04 | 15 |
| Onduline roofing/siding offers a corrugated panel that comes in
two sizes and two finishes and a multitute of colors.Its easy to
apply and can go directly over just about any type of exsisting
material. All you need is a fairly flat surface to istall a nail-
ing strip 24" on center. This stuff comes with a lifetime limited
warranty and if painted on an as need bases should last longer.
The cost is about .50/sf for the sheets,the tiles are alittle more.
For more information on the product and installation guide call
or write to: Onduline roofing/siding
Route 9 , Box 195
Fredericksburg,VA 22401
1-800-336-7663
I haven't used this material (fiber impregnated with asphalt) yet,but
plan to in a house construction this fall!
|
186.36 | I do not understand | IKE::HOUSEMAN | | Wed Mar 18 1987 16:35 | 7 |
| The math for the number of square inches of vent space scares me.
If you need 720 square inches of vent along soffit you need a vent
nine inches wide for the length of the roof. I do not recall seeing
any vents with that width. The continuous run vents are two to three
inches wide with built in screening material. Is there something
wrong in my interpretation of the formula
|
186.37 | | VINO::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Wed Mar 18 1987 17:16 | 5 |
186.124 | Should I buy house? - roof and water heater leak | EAGLE1::KONG | DTN 226-6332 | Fri Apr 03 1987 13:27 | 45 |
|
Hi, this is a hoping-to-be home owner seeking advice.
I am planning on buying a house in Nashua and did the home
inspection yesterday with Hallmark (Bob Giroux,
who by the way, did a good job as far as I can tell.)
The major problems requiring immediate attention
are the roof and the leaking water heater.
Other problems like rotting window sills and rotting
door threshold I can hopefully deal with eventually.
Can anyone give me an idea of how much it cost to
have professionals redo the roof? I called a number
of places in the Nashua area and left many messages
for the roofers to call back, but haven't heard
from anyone yet.
The foundation is roughly 24 * 36, the house is a
cape with dormers on the back. My estimate is
that there are around 1500 sf of roof, half of it
is probably at 45 degree slope, half of it not so
steep.
What are typical prices for reroofing if I want to:
1) have the old shingles stripped, any rotting underneath
fixed, new tar paper, new shingles.
2) just have a second layer of shingles laid on top
of original (assuming there is only one layer currently
there)?
Seems like material itself will cost over 1K assume a $10
bundle of asphalt shingles covers 25sf. No?
Also, how much will it cost to put in a 40gal gas hot water
heater installed and inspected by in NH? Will electric
hot water be cheaper in the short run (<5 years)?
Sorry if I asked too many questions, I havent' have time
to do the necessary pricing myself and I have until
April 6 to withdraw my offer, so I want to have a good
idea of what I'm getting myself into before doing anything.
Thanks in advance for the info,
/tom
|
186.125 | roof parts and labor = ~$2/sq ft | HEADS::OSBORN | Sally's VAXNotes Vanity Plate | Fri Apr 03 1987 13:44 | 29 |
| We had the old shingles stripped and new shingles installed on
about 2,000 square feet of 10/12 pitch roof (that's about a 45
degree slope) plus replacement of about 500 feet of flat roofs.
Date = December 1985 - January 1986.
Location = Maynard, Massachusetts
Price = $ 4,400 <-->
Roofer = Unforgettable! The roof job was part of a much bigger
job, all of which our general contractor handled for us. He will
NEVER use that roofer again!
Work was slow, but the really painful part was that the workers
forgot to install the canvas dropcloths against the walls of the
house and then played frisbee into the wind with the old shingles
(instead of dropping them straight down).
Every time a shingle hit the house, it left a black streak, which
became a very dark gray smudge when they rubbed gently and then
became a light gray (shiny, like aluminum) smudge in the middle
of a bigger dark gray smudge. We had to insist that they STOP
trying to clean the smudges because they were destroying the
aluminum siding. We got a $200 price reduction, but we still
have ugly, offensive, black streaks and smudges -- just waiting
for me to clean them up somehow myself in my spare time.
Of course, we're still finding the nails and small pieces of
shingle. But that's normal -- a friend finds nails in the grass
five years afterwards.
|
186.126 | Get a real roofer up there! | KELVIN::RPALMER | Half a bubble off plumb | Fri Apr 03 1987 14:03 | 14 |
|
Pay a real roofer $50 to take a look at the roof. I went through
the same thing last year when I had my house inspected. The inspector
climbed on and said we needed a new roof. I panicked and called
for roofers to take a look. They were weary about giving a free
quote on a house I didn't own. I paid a roofer $50 to take a look
and all he found was leaky chimney flashing. He fixed it and applied
the $50 to the payment. Well worth the money. Home inspectors
know a lot but are not experts in everything. Get some more time
from the home owner and investigate.
One reason people get nervous about roofs is that you never
know the real costs until you get the shingles off. If there is
rotting wood it can be big bucks.
=Ralph=
|
186.127 | Deja Vu | STAR::NISHIMOTO | | Fri Apr 03 1987 18:18 | 32 |
| I went throught the exact same thing last year (July) moving into
my house in Amherst. A few points:
1) The inspector (did a good job) estimated that the roof would
be $1000. I got 3 estimates, from 900-1400 so he wasn't far
off. He also suggessted a ridge vent to help taking moisture/heat
from the attic.
2) I used Apex roofers. The men did (I thought) a good, decent
job, including picking/cleaning up. The final cost was $1650
(inspector didn't include the ridge vent). I had the roof
entirely stripped. It was suggested by the roofer (the inspector
didn't get up to the roof - it wansn't that much more to have
it stripped). Note that it is suggested you re-roof only over
2-3 layers. More than that is trouble. Also, make sure your
roofer checks for rot under the existing shingles.
3) (and this is the worst part). You are at the roofers/contractor's
mercy when it comes to having them call you back. I called
(and called and called...) 10 roofers in the Nahusa area. Only
3 inspected. Only 1 (Apex) called back after the we had discussed
the inspection (asking if we had chosen a roofer yet). You may
be out of luck if you have only to 4/6 to respond. My suggestion
is to take the price of the roofing (best guess+50%) and the
heater and make it part of the purchase price contingencies.
Hope this is of some help.
Pete
|
186.128 | quick formula? | MIZZEN::DEMERS | No NeWS is Good NeWS | Fri Apr 03 1987 19:57 | 12 |
| If I figure out the pitch of the roof and the square footage, is there
a formula (even a crude one) that I can use to figure out how much
it would cost to:
- strip the old roof
- install a new roof
I understand that repairs, flashing etc would have to be included,
but I'd like to get some $ ranges in my head before I call anybody.
tnx,
Chris
|
186.129 | Ballpark roofing prices | CLOVAX::MARES | | Sat Apr 04 1987 18:52 | 14 |
| Pricing from the Cleveland Ohio area:
20 year Fiberglass shingles installed over existing roof: $50/square
Same as above but strip off old roofing and install tar paper
over existing roofing surface: $100-150/square, depends on the
type of shingles currently on roof (old single tab shingles are
lots of extra work for the tear-off process). Roofer hauls aways
all debris. Repair of roofing surface, flashing and trim are extra.
One square = 100 sq. ft.
Randy (who just did his own 22 square roof -- tearoff to flashing)
|
186.130 | Get plenty of estimates | SYSENG::MORGAN | | Thu Apr 09 1987 13:40 | 13 |
| In the Maynard area it costs approximately $75/square to shingle
over existing roofing, with 20 year Fiberglass shingles. If you want
to remove the existing shingles you can double the price (it is
now VERY expensive to dump this stuff), so figure $150/square.
It also depends on the market. If things are busy, which they probably
still are, contractors can pretty much ask whatever they want, so
look around.
We had a few boards of the subroof that were on the rotten side so
the contractor replaced them for nothing.
Steve
|
186.131 | Tin roofing needs help | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Fri Apr 10 1987 18:19 | 25 |
|
Our Victorian has a huge front porch, about 20 by 50 feet. The
original roof was tin, and the last three feet are an extension
which was covered by (hold your nose) asphalt rolled roofing.
The rolled roofing failed, and failed a long time ago I might add.
I can deal with removing the rotted framing members and rebuilding
the roof. I have no idea how to tie in that rebuilt section with
tin to match the original.
I can't even find it mentioned in any of the how-to books. I've
been unsuccessful in locating a roofer in Southern NH who will try
tin. The old timers gave it up before the war. I suppose I should
have predicated this by remarking that I like the sound of rain
on my tin roof and really want to make the whole roof tin rather
than rip it all off and do something else.
Does anybody know how to work with tin roofing? Know of someone
who does, or have a book that describes it? My roof is made of
18 inch squares of tin, folded to interlock and then soldered. If
it was just a straight edge I might buy some tin and give it a
whack for fun, but there are two valleys involved. (Maybe the
previous owner had a good reason for covering his addition with
rolled roofing).
-Bob
|
186.132 | OHJ, natch | VIDEO::DCL | David Larrick | Fri Apr 10 1987 18:40 | 3 |
| The Old House Journal has had at least one major article on metal roofing
techniques within the past year or so. Try your friendly public library,
or hit up one of the OHJ readers in this conference.
|
186.133 | FHB and Pointer | ERLANG::BD | Brian D. Handspicker | Mon Apr 13 1987 15:07 | 16 |
| The latest Fine Homebuilding also has an article on standing-seam
metal roofing. It looks like a reasonable DIY job for folk with
patience.
At the last Home Show I saw a booth for Boston-area roofer who claimed
to specialize in roofing large victorian houses. The booth included
displays of copper-work and (I believe) standing-seam roofing.
I do not need a roof, yet I was drawn to their booth by the competent
display and detailed job site pictures. At least they have a good
show staff.... From a quick glance through the Yellow Pages I think
the name was "O'Lyn Roofing, 30 Elm St. Dedham 617-329-6099". They
may be willing to venture north for a large, specialized job.
Good Luck,
bd
|
186.134 | Go North, young DIYer | MYCRFT::PARODI | John H. Parodi | Mon Apr 13 1987 15:45 | 6 |
|
Since you see more tin roofs the further north you go, why don't you try
talking to a roofing contractor from, say, Conway or Berlin NH? They
might actually have some experience in the matter...
JP
|
186.38 | Safety Considerations | FRSBEE::PAGLIARULO | | Tue Apr 14 1987 15:00 | 9 |
| I can strip off the old roof, I can repair any damage to the
sub-roof, I can put down new paper and shingles BUT how do I make sure
that while I'm doing all of this I actually stay up on the roof and do not
end up on the ground unexpectedly? In other words, what safety precautions
should be taken, and what apparatus should be used to prevent an accident?
Thanks
George
|
186.146 | 1/2" or 5/8" ply for roof - also, how much insulation? | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Tue Apr 14 1987 17:14 | 15 |
186.147 | One opinion... | JOULE::CONNELL | It's mine! mine! all mine! | Tue Apr 14 1987 18:28 | 26 |
186.148 | Another opinion | SEESAW::PILANT | L. Mark Pilant | Tue Apr 14 1987 18:38 | 12 |
| I suspect that the 2x12s are a bit of overkill. Some basic things
that determine the size of the rafter/joist are: 1) the material,
2) the distance spanned between supports, 3) the pitch (for rafters),
and 4) the type of load (live or static).
The family room I'm building has a (vaulted) roof with a 1 in 6 pitch,
with an unsupported span of 21ft. According to most of the tables, a
2x10 was the minimum size I could use. I actually used 2x12s 24 feet
long for the rafters. This allowed me to put a fair amount of
insulation up there, and still have reasonable ventilation.
- Mark
|
186.39 | | WHOARU::DIAMOND | | Wed Apr 15 1987 14:04 | 8 |
|
Nail in some 2x4's for footing. Don't nail them all the way in.
Make it easy to pull them off once you'r done. Then remember to
repair the hole(If any) it left. I would also recomend renting a
scafold. This can save you a lot of headaces with getting the shingles
to the roof.
|
186.40 | Pros use triangular braces | STAR::SWIST | Jim Swist ZKO1-1/D42 381-1264 | Wed Apr 15 1987 15:05 | 28 |
| Professional roofers use triangular staging braces. Most adjust
to any slope. They have slots which hook around the heads of roofing
nails. The technique is to lift up a shingle where you want the
brace, and slip the end of the brace under the shingle and around
the head of one of the nails holding the course below. This avoids
putting nails through your finished roof. The braces are easily
moved upward as you progress. You then just lay some boards (a
couple of 2x8's is good) on top and you have a nice horizontal work
surface.
Unfortunately I don't know where you get them or their precise name.
They do not look expensive at all.
-------- -------- /
| 2x8 | | 2x8 | //
-------- -------- // <-- End of brace slipped under
____________________/ shingle and around nail.
-------------------/
| /
| /
| /
| /
| / <-- Finished portion of roof
| /
| /
| /
| /
(etc)
|
186.135 | Tin or Terne-coated steal? | SKINUT::GROSSO | | Wed Apr 15 1987 15:50 | 29 |
| Well I've since learned there are three styles of metal roofing
application, Batten, Standing-seam, and Flat-seam. I've got flat-
seam.
RE: .1
Very good article in OHJ Jan-Feb '84 titled "Rescuing
a Porch Roof". There was a very clear description of how to fold
and solder tin roof pans. I now understand why a patch of rolled
roofing was used. Like other roofing material, you start the first
course at the edge and work up, only each seam interlocks before
soldering. I have enough good roof, (and the soldering sounds
sufficiently tedious that I may have to opt for a less elegant overlap
and solder patch where the new will meet the old.
OHJ April '83 had a useful discussion of old roofing materials and
modern replacements. I'm still unclear as to whether I have tin
or Terne-coated steel and not sure whether it matters which I use
for redoing addition. i.e. can I mix and match. Can anyone tell
me how to tell the difference?
By the way, Nashua Public Library has some OHJs.
RE: .2
Yes, I too was attracted to their exhibit. I was told there
that they only handle copper, no tin.
RE: .3
Thanks, that sounds like an idea worth pursuing. I can check
next time I go north.
|
186.41 | the hole is easy to fix...... | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | | Wed Apr 15 1987 23:26 | 11 |
| I have used roof jacks and I highly suggest trying to hit the rafter
below with at least an 8p double headed nail. The hole left is seldom
a problem or can be covered with tar below the shingle.
When you are 20'+ off the ground you cant be too careful.
You really get a sense of exposure when you get 40' up on an a-frame
and the wind starts to blow hard. The balance you have trusted for
years dosent seem so trustworthy anymore.
-j
|
186.149 | 2x10 & 1/2" CDX | AKOV01::MCPHEE | Tom McPhee GIA Field Service | Thu Apr 16 1987 12:55 | 11 |
| Did you say whether your 2x12s would be 16 inches on center? I
am the king of overkill (laughed at by my family of professional
builders), but I used 1/2" CDX on my roofs (8" pitch). I used 2x10
rafters at 16" on center. My family laughed, but I slept well.
There is no sag in my roofs.
Tom
p.s. If you will sleep better at 2x12s and 5/8" CDX, spend the
extra money.
|
186.42 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Apr 16 1987 13:33 | 25 |
| Yes, you want a BIG nail for the roofing bracket, 10d or more I'd
say. Certainly more than a shingle nail. And try to hit a rafter.
A lot depends on how steep the roof is. I happen to be in the midst
of reshingling my roof (between rainstorms!) and some parts of it are
a fairly gentle pitch so walking around is no problem. For those
areas I'm not bothering with any sort of staging or brackets. Another
section of the roof is 12:12 or maybe 13:12 pitch. I can just barely
crawl up it. For that part I'm using the roofing brackets.
A lot depends on experience too. After doing it for a while you
may get your "roofing legs" and feel more comfortable. If you're
feeling unsure though, by all means use whatever safety measures
you need to make you feel okay.
If the roof is a shallow pitch but you want some extra protection,
putting a line of roofing brackets and a board down at the eaves
would probably help. A 2x4 nailed on would do the same thing, but
then you have holes you have to patch. You put the nails for the
roofing backets under the tab of a shingle and just drive them in
when you're done.
When I did my old house I rented scaffolding to work from. For
that job I had to replace all the roof boards too, and the scaffolding
helped a lot. This time around I'm not bothering with it, both
because the roof isn't as high and I don't have to replace many
boards.
|
186.150 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Apr 16 1987 13:42 | 8 |
| If you believe in plywood at all (personally, I'm a fan of rough-sawn
1" pine from the local sawmill for roofs), 1/2" plywood is adequate.
The addition on my house has 1/2" plywood; yesterday I was up there
stripping the old shingles, and the plywood was comfortably solid.
I think building code minimum is 3/8" plywood for roofs, would you
believe....
|
186.151 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | | Fri Apr 17 1987 00:31 | 6 |
| The 1" pine makes a very solid roof but is a real bear to strip
the old shingles off of. Then you have to go back and pull the 20,000
nails that were left behind one at a time.
I had to go thru this about two years ago what a job!
-j
|
186.152 | | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri Apr 17 1987 12:20 | 6 |
| I'm not really worried about strength (12" joists). For the span I need
(less than 14') I'm sure I could even get away with 2X8's. It's purly for
insulation purposes. My sole question is, is it worth the extra bucks (I
suspect I'll probabaly do it)...
-mark
|
186.136 | | ARGUS::CURTIS | Dick 'Aristotle' Curtis | Thu Apr 23 1987 19:19 | 7 |
| The Home Show in Worcester had a place in Worcester that did that
kind of thing. I think that their name was "Holden <mumble> Roofing"
or some such thing. Suggest that you check a Worcester-area phone
book (secretaries may have one, or a large library).
Dick
|
186.163 | flat roof woes | FACVAX::RJOHNSON | Bob Johnson | Fri May 01 1987 17:04 | 8 |
| I have a flat roof that is leaking and I have been considering
ripping up the existing rolled roofing and replacing it...
any suggestions on materials or technique??
-bj-
|
186.164 | Ditto | WELFAR::PGRANSEWICZ | | Fri May 01 1987 17:14 | 8 |
| Same problem here! I'm interested in how to fix it without
significantly destroying the relatively new shingles. My problem
is a flat portion of roof over a jog measuring roughly 18" x 18'.
Cheapskate builders didn't do it right 35 years ago! Who said older
houses are built better?
Phil
|
186.165 | | GALACH::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Sat May 02 1987 00:32 | 6 |
| We have many flat roof houses out here and they all seem to have
the leaking problem. It seems the only way many have been able to
solve the leaks for good is to install a pitched roof.
-j
|
186.166 | Single-membrane Firestone material | ALEX::ALEX | Alex Conn, ZKO | Sat May 02 1987 01:34 | 9 |
| There is a new Firestone material which is a single-membrane rubberized
material that is supposed to be much better than roll roofing. We are
planning an addition in which a shed roof will require something like
roll roofing. The contractor suggested the single-membrane material
which shrinks and expands as necessary and supposedly will last as long
as a good shingle job on a normal pitch roof (20 years at least).
However, it costs about double that of roll roofing.
Alex
|
186.167 | tell me more.. | FACVAX::RJOHNSON | Bob Johnson | Mon May 04 1987 12:19 | 9 |
| The area I have to cover is approx. 12X23. The firestone stuff sounds
interesting is it available retail?? if so from who?.... I need
to keep the flat roof as I have several large peices of furniture
that go out that way and I would like to put some kind of flooring
or decking over it.
-bj-
|
186.168 | Bituthene.. | FROST::SIMON | Mister Diddy Wah Diddy? | Tue May 05 1987 19:58 | 10 |
|
I've heard about this stuff called Bituthene (sp?) that is
basically a waterproof membrane. I saw it being used on
underground houses to seal the wall. It is used commercially
for other things I believe. I may even have a brochure around
somewhere, but I'm not positive. Let me know if you're
interested.
-gary
|
186.137 | Good news/bad news | OCELOT::COFFEY | | Mon May 11 1987 14:03 | 20 |
| The roof on our (~100 year old Victorian) home was also tin and
ended up leaking through one of the ceilings in our house. The
work was done by the Barnard's in Worcester, MA...
Some good news and some bad news: you could replace the tin roof
with copper for about the same price. At least that's what the
Barnard's claimed. At the time the roof was originally installed
tin roofing (actually tin plated steel or iron) was fairly inexpensive
when compared to copper. Now (probably because of tin prices) they
are comparable. Copper is easier to work with and probably easier
to solder. The bad news is that BOTH are expensive.
The Barnard's have been in business for a long while and also do
other roofing (like slate). They might know of someone in your
area who does tin/copper roofing.
Good luck!
Mike
|
186.153 | Staging | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon May 11 1987 16:29 | 6 |
| I think I'm gonna break down and buy/make some staging for doing my shingling.
Has anybody ever bought those brackets you always see roofers using to hold
their staging? What are they called? How much do they cost? Does Spags
sell them? Is there any special dos/donts in using them?
-mark
|
186.154 | 2 ladders and a hook | CADWRK::BUTLER | | Tue May 12 1987 12:33 | 6 |
|
I use 2 16 ft ladders with ladders staging, the type that hook
to the rungs, works quit well.
al
|
186.155 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Tue May 12 1987 14:48 | 19 |
| Re: .7
Are talking about roofing brackets, on the roof, or some sort of
brackets for staging for working at the edge of the roof?
Roofing brackets for the roof are the only way to go if the roof
is at all steep.
You can get by without staging for the edge - it just takes a little
longer. You have to shingle 3 or 4 courses from a ladder, until
you get up far enough to put on the roof brackets.
You may be thinking of "pump jacks" that go on a vertical 4x4; you
use them in pairs, to support a plank. They can be moved up and
down the 4x4 by pumping on a lever. There have been some stories
in this notes file about pump jacks slipping, with unfortunate results.
If you use them I'd suggest a nail or two to hold the pump jack
in position after it's set at the height you want it. And adjust
them from a ladder, not while you're standing on the plank. And
if you're going to all that trouble, why not just get a couple more
boards and build some simple staging and save the cost of the pump
jacks.
|
186.156 | roofing brackets | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Tue May 12 1987 16:00 | 6 |
| re: -1
Steve, you came so close to answering my question and then didn't. I guess
it's roofing brackets that I want. Where do you get them? cost? safety tips?
-mark
|
186.157 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Tue May 12 1987 16:55 | 37 |
| These things?
\
\
\------|
\ /
\ /
\/
\
\
I'm not sure where to get them - the carpenter I'm working with
brought his own. I suspect an inquiry at a real lumberyard
(i.e. not Grossman's, etc.) would give you a source.
They look as though they should be fairly cheap. There is not
much to them, really. $5-$10 apiece? Half a dozen ought to be
plenty for anything. Notice that if the roof is steep you need
to leave the bottom ones in place as you work your way up, so
you can get down again.
Safety tips - use about a 10d nail to hold them in place, and if
you're working on a plywood roof be sure to put them over a rafter
so you have something solid to nail into. When you take them off,
just drive the nail down flush, so it stays in the hole.
Also nail your staging plank to the front of the brackets (there's a
little hole in the front of the brackets for a nail to go through).
There is a sticker on the brackets with instructions for use that
should tell you most everything you need to know.
It shouldn't be too difficult to make up some brackets out of 2x4's,
for that matter. I'd want to notch the 2x4's forming the triangle
so there was no chance of anything slipping, but if you're doing
only a single pitch roof and don't need adjustable brackets that might
be the way to go. Get a piece of (about) 1/16" x 2" steel strapping
material with holes in it to put on the back, to slip under the
shingle tab to put the attaching nail thorugh.
There is another discussion of roofing brackets in this notes file
somewhere, I think.
|
186.158 | right device, wrong price | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Tue May 12 1987 19:44 | 4 |
| I just called Moores and they want $27 each! Does anyone know if SPAGS carry
these?
-mark
|
186.138 | $copper = $aluminum? | YODA::BARANSKI | 1's & 0's, what could be simpler?! | Tue May 12 1987 20:10 | 5 |
| My Bro' in MI is just finishing up his built-in-the-side-of-the-hill house, and
was able to get copper roofing and trim for the same price he would have paid
for aluminum. Of course he didn't have a whole lot of roof...
Jim.
|
186.43 | availability of continuous soffits | MIZZEN::DEMERS | Buy low, sell high | Wed May 13 1987 18:15 | 7 |
| Well, thanks to Paul Weiss I have my soffit measurements. Are the
continuous types generally available (Somerville, Spags, etc)?
Chris
ps - With one more estimate to go, looks like Assabet is leading
the pack. Negative comments very welcome, hurry up!
|
186.159 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri May 15 1987 14:00 | 3 |
| RE: $27.00
WOW!!!
|
186.160 | | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri May 15 1987 16:09 | 5 |
| So do you have any suggestions on where to get them cheaper? How about a
group purchase (probably a bit silly). how about selling them to a rental
place when done?
-mark
|
186.44 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri May 15 1987 17:08 | 21 |
| A note on the special "water and ice" membrane stuff for the edge
of the roof. I tried it on the north side of my roof during my
current reshingling project. It looks as though it ought to work
very well. It is STICKY!!!! though, and you will definitely want
help putting it down, especially on a warm day. If it folds back
on itself, forget it. I put down the metal drip edge along the
eaves first, then put the membrane over it.
BTW, for drip edge, you can get either aluminum or galvanized. My
carpenter recommended galvanized as more sturdy, and I'm glad I went
with it. The aluminum folds over if you lean a ladder against it,
but the galvanized stands up to such treatment pretty well.
The other day I found another reason to strip off the old shingles
first: it gives you a chance to check the condition of the roof
deck, especially at the eaves. I uncovered a place that had been
leaking (and rotting) for years, which required some major patching.
If I'd cheerfully shingled over the old I would never have found it.
Continuous soffit vents ought to be available at most any lumberyard.
I just picked some up at Coldwell's in Berlin, Mass.
|
186.45 | Do not use Korean shingle nails! | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri May 15 1987 17:10 | 3 |
| WARNING on shingle nails. DO NOT get shingle nails made in Korea.
The heads come off if you have to pull them out. Sometimes they
come off when you drive them in. They are a colossal pain.
|
186.161 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri May 15 1987 17:35 | 6 |
| Re: roofs, also see note 823.*
At $27 apiece, the build-your-own-from-2x4s approach sounds pretty
good. You could glue and nail 1/4" plywood to the sides of the
trianges, and the result would probably be stronger than the metal
variety.
|
186.162 | I'm definately gonna make my own | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon May 18 1987 16:21 | 7 |
| Over the weekend I founds some scrap metal braces. I think it's the stuff
that industrial metal shelves are made of. Looks like angle iron and has
lots of holes in it. Very strong!
I figure I can make LOTS of brackets out of this stuff. Sure beats $27 a piece.
-mark
|
186.46 | OHH NNOO | DRUID::DIPIETRO | | Wed Jun 17 1987 15:53 | 15 |
| Carmen DiPietro OOHH NNOO
That is awfull!!! and you are right you do not want Carmen.
My husband is Daniel DiPietro a brother and was tought by and worked
with the same father and uncles that started DiPietro Roofing Inc.
but Carmen does not have the same pride in his work as his father
and uncles did. I Know this does not help you now but there are
really a lot of GOOD contractors out there and I hope you have better
luck!!!!!
MILLY
|
186.47 | Help matching shingles | DSSDEV::AMBER | | Wed Jun 17 1987 17:45 | 20 |
| I just completed framing an addition and have started trying to
find shingles to match or at least come close to those on the rest
of the house.
No luck. It seems that none of the major manufacturers have anything
even close.
Does anyone have any suggestions, short of reroofing everything?
The details are 10 squares of "architectural" asphalt shingles, brown
with significant white specs (a lot more white than and thus a much
lighter looking brown than anything currently on the market), 8 or 9
years old, and preferably with ridge shingles available.
Perhaps that's a bit much to ask, so the next question is what about
alternatives. Will it look stupid if I ignore matching (both roofs
are visible in the back yard)? Will I be the only one to notice
and so on?
|
186.48 | how about 1/2 a roof? | BOEHM::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Thu Jun 18 1987 12:33 | 13 |
| I have the same problem with an addition I'm building. Since I'ma glutten
for punishment, I'm probably going to reroof the entire house and garage!
However, one of the alternatives I cam up with that I think makes sense is to
simply reshingle a single side of the roof up to the peak. Since it's
impossible to see both sides of the roof unless you're in a plane or on a hill,
this may be acceptible.
One other thing to consider is the age of the existing roof. Mine is close to
10 years old so I'm figuring it may only have another 5 years or so to go
anyways.
-mark
|
186.194 | roof window rough framing | TWOBOS::LAFOSSE | | Thu Jun 25 1987 19:47 | 8 |
| I'm thinking of putting in a couple of roof windows in my moms roof.
she has a ranch with a pitch that is conducive to having them, what
i would like to know is should i double up the rafter on each side
of the window and will i need to build a header both top and bottom?
any suggestions.
the rough opening is approx 24" wide by 60" tall.
Fra
|
186.195 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Jun 25 1987 19:59 | 11 |
| Depends on the size of the existing rafters, and whether or not
you're cutting out a rafter to put in the window. If you don't
have to cut out anything (rafters are on 24" centers and that's
enough to get the window in), then there's no problem. If you
do have to cut out a rafter to get the window in, ...it all depends.
When I put a skylight in my kitchen, I doubled up the rafters
because it made me feel better. The carpenter I was working with
said with the 2x8 rafters I had I "probably didn't need to."
You will need a DOUBLE header, top and bottom. (At least according
to the guy who helped me.)
|
186.139 | Metal in hand, ready to start! | SKINUT::GROSSO | | Fri Jun 26 1987 15:30 | 15 |
| Yup, since so little tin or terne coated steel as its called, is
sold, I got lead coated copper for less bucks. A three by eight
sheet costs in the neighborhood of $40. My brother has a supplier
for tin down in PA for anyone looking, but the factory they are
all getting it from is in West Virginia. I located the leaded copper
at Cambridge St Metals (617-254-7580). The lead on the copper makes
it easy to solder and also possible to paint so I can have the roof
look the same when I'm done.
I've got the old extension removed and am ready to begin reconstruction.
I'll report later with an update on the outcome. Thanks for the
useful input to date. If I get stuck its comforting to have some
leads to call in a pro.
-Bob
|
186.196 | | VLNVAX::SUMNER | Yes dear... put it on my list. | Sat Jun 27 1987 01:13 | 13 |
|
A header and sill are a must. Glass has very low compression
strength and headers and sills will assure that all of the
weight of the wall or roof will be displaced to the studs around
the glass. As for the double rafters, if you can fit the window
within present rafters then you probably don't need to double-up
but it wouldn't hurt. If you have to cut out any rafters then you
should double up to strengthen up the frame. A little extra time
and a couple of rafters now is easier than tearing the whole thing
apart later becase the roof shifted and caused the window to crack
and/or leak.
Glenn
|
186.140 | Terne Plate - Folansbee Steel | MILT::JACKSON | Bill Jackson DOESN'T take American Express | Mon Jun 29 1987 17:34 | 14 |
| Yup, the place in WVa is Follansbee Steel, in Folansbee WVa. My
father did his roof with Terne about 4 years ago (it looks tremendous)
but it was rather easy for him to get the stuff. He lives about
20 miles from Folansbee.
When he picked up his roofing there was a man from Toronto there
buying roofing for his house. He told my father that Folansbee
was the ONLY source for Terne roofing in north america! (he drove
down from Toronto to buy the stuff, so I'm sure it's the closest
place to New England)
-bill
|
186.49 | The only stupid question.... | MILRAT::HAMER | Go Some of You Red Sox! | Thu Jul 09 1987 18:46 | 17 |
| To keep from plunging into the sun room in an unpredicted and
traumatic manner, I'm replacing a flat deck/roof. This has not turned
into my favorite all-time project: not one of the joists (2x6 as
measured) are on 16" ctrs; but that doesn't matter because most of
them are rotted badly anyway; there has been a minimum of 9 layers of
tarpaper and tar to remove; and two crisscrossed layers of worm-eaten
1" pine boards ostensibly designed to hold the whole thing up.
I'm almost done and find that, among the many other things I haven't
known, I don't know if the dripedge goes under the tarpaper
underlayment or over it. I read in an earlier reply to this note that
it goes under the rubber stuff (at $125 a roll I'm using the older
technology!) but I don't know if that is true of tarpaper, too.
Please help.
John H.
|
186.50 | Both under and over | DSSDEV::AMBER | | Fri Jul 10 1987 12:15 | 4 |
| The drip edge goes under the paper at the eave and over the paper
at the rake.
|
186.51 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri Jul 10 1987 12:41 | 16 |
| I always do as in .29. Imagine water running off the roof; you
want it to run off the paper and onto the drip edge, not under
it. (Of course, the shingles cover up the whole business anyway,
but that's what would happen if they wern't there.)
BTW, when you speak of "tarpaper" I assume you are using 60-pound
smooth roll roofing for the strip along the edge in place of the
"high-tech" stuff; I don't think 15-pound felt would do much for
you as far as guarding against ice dams, etc.
If you had ice dams last winter you might think of getting one roll
of the "high-tech" stuff for just those areas. When I reshingled
my roof this past spring I used the "high-tech" approach along the
north side where I got all the ice dams and 60# smooth roll on the
other sides. At $100+ a roll you're right - one thinks long and
hard about getting it! But my impressions from putting it down
are, the stuff certainly should do a good job.
|
186.52 | Hail, the roof's damaged again! | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Thu Jul 16 1987 00:20 | 9 |
| The time has come to replace my roof after hail damage. This is
the second time in four years this has been done. Anyone out there
know of hail proof roofing? Asphalt shingles last an average of
7 years in my location and that is for the lucky ones.
Any suggestions?
Free roofing instruction given to anyone interested.....
-j
|
186.53 | | 3D::BOOTH | Stephen Booth | Thu Jul 16 1987 11:16 | 6 |
|
Just out of curiosity, how can hail damage a roof ?
-Steve-
|
186.54 | It knocks big holes in it. | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Fri Jul 17 1987 00:14 | 19 |
| When they are 2-3 inches in diameter it is not that hard.
The damage takes the form of holes in the shingles. When the hail
stone hits it shatters the shingle in the impact zone.
There were about 100 places where the shingle was broken all the
way thru.
This is nothing new to anyone living in the Colorado Springs area.
The hail storm that damaged my roof caused a total of $30 million
in damages to the area. Replacing a roof every 3-4 years is
considered normal in this area.
My parents have replaced the roof on their house 5 times now in
the 19 years they have lived there.
-jerry
P.S. all of the damage was not limited to houses. Several million
in damages occured to cars too. My neighbors car looks like someone
took a ballpeen hammer to its hood.
|
186.55 | | 3D::BOOTH | Stephen Booth | Fri Jul 17 1987 11:10 | 6 |
|
Thats what I get for assuming you lived in MASS !
-Steve-
|
186.56 | 'Slate, but not too late | TASMAN::EKOKERNAK | | Fri Jul 17 1987 12:51 | 4 |
| Sounds like a situation where an investment in slate would be cost
effective!
Elaine
|
186.57 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Sat Jul 18 1987 02:30 | 20 |
| re.35
Anyone out there have a slate roof or have any idea what it costs
per square? I have considered a tile roof but it dosent match
the style of the house. Besides the cost is very high for tile.
My guess would be the slate is very high too. I dont even know
of any places here where slate is quarried.
My neighbors cedar shake roof is in worse shape than mine.
Last night it was very windy and half his shakes were in the front
yard.
I really wish there were a way to get out of this cycle since it
really is a pain. I had vacation scheduled next week to go out
of town now I will be roofing instead.(read VERY unhappy)
At least I wont be alone, so far all of my neighbors i have talked
to recieved damage and will be re-roofing at the same time.
Geez maybe this is a good time for a roofing/block party!
-j
|
186.58 | slate breaks too | SVCRUS::KROLL | | Tue Jul 21 1987 00:42 | 2 |
| Slate breaks well also. Ask my grandmother. Also it is hard to
get someone to work on it.
|
186.198 | Roofing prices, safety, DIY vs contractor | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri Aug 14 1987 12:30 | 12 |
| Like most DYI'ers I'm always curious as to how much I can save on any particular
job. I'm facing putting on a new roof as part of my additon project which will
involve reroofing the entire house! I've got multiple roofs and I figure it's
going to be a multiple weekend job (around 22 suqares). With all the other
junk I have to do I was just wondering how much a roofer normally gets. I
would assume they charge by the specific job rather than just the number of
squares, but I'm kinda looking for a ballpark figure.
I'm sure I'll end up doing it myself, but if the price were right I might be
tempted to think twice about it.
-mark
|
186.199 | | VIDEO::DCL | David Larrick | Fri Aug 14 1987 13:40 | 29 |
| I don't have dollar figures, but I do have some non-monetary considerations
for you:
Pro DIY:
1. Relatively few specialized tools, equipment, or skills.
2. You'll be more careful than pros would be to avoid damage to your house,
plantings, etc.
3. You'll know exactly how well the job is done, and you'll be intimately
involved in any decisions.
Con:
1. Trash disposal costs and hassles. See recent discussions elsewhere in
this conference.
2. Safety. One accident more than counterbalances your DIY savings.
3. The working conditions for roofing are seldom pleasant, and are
unbearable in many types of weather.
4. Schedule. With their superior skill, larger crew, and fancy machinery
(e.g. electric elevator to lift bundles to the roof), the pros can get a
lot more done than you can during the rare outbreaks of good weather
here in New England.
|
186.200 | | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri Aug 14 1987 16:37 | 16 |
| You've stated my concerns exactly! Some folks down the road had a roof about
2/3'd the size of mine replaced in 1 day. DIY is fun, but sometimes it's kind
of nice to let someone else do the work for you.
re: safety... This is probably the only one that bothers me. I have a 30
degree roof which is not too steep to climb on but steep enough that it's easy
to forget yourself and loose your balance. I was putting some tar paper over
the new section the other week when I slipped, slid a few feet and caught on to
the side in time to stop my fall. The thought of spending multiple weekends in
that environment has at least caused me to think about it.
on the other hand, I got a whole pile of some real neat angle iron which I had
planned on making roof staging out of. I figure I could cover the entire roof
with the stuff and minimize the risks...
-mark
|
186.201 | recommendation against makeshift staging... | 3D::WHITE | Randy White, Doncha love old homes... | Fri Aug 14 1987 17:14 | 17 |
| Hi Mark-
>on the other hand, I got a whole pile of some real neat angle iron which I had
>planned on making roof staging out of. I figure I could cover the entire roof
>with the stuff and minimize the risks...
Caution is the better part of valor. Makeshift staging is exactly
that I made the mistake of makeshifting in this area once fortunately
without any major problems, other than the realization of my own
*mortality* :-) We went right out and got some roofing jacks, they're
not that expensive and well worth the investment.
Roofing is a good DIY project but safety can't be overlooked. The
idea of falling even 10 ft. or so doesn't thrill me, I think we're
all familiar with the impulse to step back and see how it looks :-}
Another old ASDer Randy
|
186.202 | Roofing Prices | DRUID::DIPIETRO | | Fri Aug 14 1987 18:36 | 10 |
| Hello,
I think I can give you a rough idea on what they charge.They usually
price it by the square but when they give you the final total they
do not tell you that. $100.00 a sq. if the roof does not have to
be stripped and $200.00 a sq if they have to strip it, but this
includes the price of the shingles and labor plus the workers pay.
There are some who charge around $80.00 to either put on a new roof
or to strip a roof and then put the new shingles on but they are
the ones that I would question the work that they do.
|
186.203 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Mon Aug 17 1987 07:50 | 17 |
| IO just finished doing mine and must say that it is a great DYI
job as lond as the pitch of the roof is not extreme I have a 4-12
pitch on my roof which is not very steep. I second the idea that
you should use good staging.
In my case the insurance company paid to have the job done since
the damage was caused by hail stones. They paid for shingles and
labor I paid myself $980.00 for having done it myself.
That is enough to start a whole new project paid in advance!
One other route is to invite all your friends over for a roofing
party and bar-b-que.
I found that working a few hours each morning and evening works
fine and avoids the scorched feeling.
-j
|
186.204 | what's wrong with DIY staging? | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon Aug 17 1987 12:10 | 24 |
| re: staging
There is nothing wrong with making yourself as long as you know what you're
doing. For example, I spent this weekend putting down the plywood for the roof
using some homemade staging my father-in-law whipped together. Looks flimsy as
hell but it'll still stand up to anything. All he did was to take the ends I
cut off my 2X12's which have the exact pitch of the roof and nail them top
sheets of plywood and put a plank on top. Then all you do is nail the plywood
to the roof over some joists. I can easily stand up on it while hauling up
5/8 sheets of plywood and it's as solid as a rock.
When the time comes to do the actual roofing (and I'm REALLY leaning towards
doing it myself), I don't plan on using that staging bu rather making other
stuff. I've seen it at the store for something like $10, which is certainly
cheap enought, but I want at least a 5-10 pairs or more so that I don't have
to spend all my time moving them. My roof is close to 35 feet from top to
bottom and 50 feet across (in back)! If I only had one or two pair, I'd
never have any time to do any roofing.
btw - I also have some homemade staging for working off. It's all made by 14'
2X4's braced together with strapping and I bet it's more solid that the type
you buy with the pump jacks. Now those are flimsy...
-mark
|
186.205 | more on staging.... | 3D::WHITE | Randy White, Doncha love old homes... | Mon Aug 17 1987 12:40 | 22 |
|
>re:staging
>There is nothing wrong with making yourself as long as you know what you're
>doing. For example, I spent this weekend putting down the plywood for the roof
Agreed, as long as you know what you are doing and accept the risk.
>btw - I also have some homemade staging for working off. It's all made by 14'
>2X4's braced together with strapping and I bet it's more solid that the type
>you buy with the pump jacks. Now those are flimsy...
Yeah but you can't beat the commercial metal staging for ease of use,
flexibility in placement and portability. Fortunately for me my
Father-in-law bought three or four complete sections of this stuff
just before I bought my house four years ago. This and the
availability of his dump truck have come in kind of handy over the
years :-)
Good Luck with your roofing job, I remember the last time we shingled
in August, my brother's footprints are still in the shingles ;-)
- Randy
|
186.206 | actual case history | CIMAMT::LOWE | Chris Lowe | Mon Aug 17 1987 15:46 | 11 |
| We have a 1500 square foot hip roof (15 squares). We got quotes
to remove the old layers (2) and felt, nail 3/8 inch plywood down,
put up two strips of membrane and then new felt and shingle the
roof. Contractor wanted $8000.
I got a bunch of friends and hired a contractor to supervise the
job. Materials and labor $1500. Trash hauling $600. Savings?
almost $6000. It was worth it, but it will take longer than you
expect.
Chris
|
186.207 | how thick should roof decking be? | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon Aug 17 1987 16:01 | 15 |
| 3/8 plywood on the roof? I was actually going to put in a note about this but
it seems like it was started for me.
I currently have a 1/2 roof against which I'm butting some more roofing. The
plans I have call for 1/2" but it's SO flimsy. Actually, it's really about 3/8
when you look at it - is that what you mean when you say 3/8"? The old roof is
1/2" but closer to 7/16". After listening to my father-in-law badger me about
cheap construction these days, I bit the bullet and am putting up 5/8 decking
and I'm glad I am. I can see slight dips between the joists even from the 1/2"
stuff. I can't imagine what 3/8" would do. When you're only talking a couple of
bucks per sheet for the thicker stuff, why not do it?
Then again, one shouldn't spend $$$ just for the sake of it either.
-mark
|
186.208 | Don't need it, but it's a better job... | STAR::SWIST | Jim Swist ZKO1-1/D42 381-1264 | Mon Aug 17 1987 16:34 | 13 |
| Roof sheathing doesn't need to be very thick since it mainly has
to handle a static load, and a uniformaly distributed one at that
(snow).
But you are absolutely right, 5/8 has a much better feel and gives
you a much more solid roof.
Spec builders don't do it because its a few bucks more, and 25%
heavier - which translates into more labor to put it up.
Lots of custom work has 5/8 roof sheathing. Go for it.
|
186.209 | Roof shingle tape ??? | LDP::BUSCH | | Mon Aug 17 1987 16:47 | 13 |
| In putting shingles up on a shed roof I just built I came up with
a question. The folks at Sommerville lumber said to remove the strip
of clear tape that protects the adhesive on the back of the shingles.
The instructions say that the tape is there to increase the holding
power of the roofing nails. I suspect that the tape also helps
seal the nail holes. On the other hand, it seems intuitive that
the additional adhesive under the tape would help to hold the shingles
down.
Who is right?
Dave
|
186.210 | there's no end to their misinformation! | PHENIX::CONNELL | Ha..I'd like to meet his tailor.. | Mon Aug 17 1987 16:59 | 10 |
|
Follow the instructions on the shingles. The people at Slummervile
are ignoramuses. The plastic strip serves two purposes: 1) to protect the
shingles from sticking together while they are bundled (without them, the
gobs of tar would stick to the shingle above it); 2) To give a little added
strength to the shingle at the point the nails penetrate it by distributing the
load somewhat.
--Mike
|
186.211 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Mon Aug 17 1987 21:09 | 2 |
| Ditto on .12 (this was discussed someplace else in here, but Lord
knows where....)
|
186.241 | Re-roofing an almost flat roof | OPUS::STYLIANOS | | Sun Aug 23 1987 17:01 | 30 |
| I have a roof that leaks
a) when Ice dams form and
b) in heavy rains
It is quite low pitch 1.2"/foot (6" rise in 5"), I don't like
clearing snow from it in the winter and winter is coming Sooo I looks
like time to get the roof replaced.
The house is a ~30 year old contemporary, Decking over beams
that is visible inside the house.
Is it reasonable to expect to get to the No leak state?
Is the roof too flat for ordinary shingles?
Currently the roof has roll roofing over shingles (previous owner
not me!) over the heated portions and shingles over the deck and garage.
Is the roof too flat for roll roofing?
Seems like when I did the roof on the porch of my old house there
was a note on the roll roofing about the suitability for low pitch roofs.
The other alternative is some sort of membrane. Does this require a
Special contractor? or can any bozo with a truck SUCCESSFULLY install it?
(I am going to contract it out)
Any information would be appreciated .....Tom
|
186.242 | | ALIEN::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Aug 24 1987 13:03 | 10 |
| It's definitely too low a slope for regular shingles - they usually reccommend
4" per foot (although I've used them on 3" per foot with no problems). 1" per
foot is too low though. It might be too low for roll roofing, but I don't
think so. I remember putting on roll roofing where we painted on a solid coat
of something like roofing tar only thinner, and bedded the roll roofing in
that. I imagine that would seal pretty well, and should be enough for your
roof pitch for most of the roof. You probably want to investigate the
possibility of a membrane for the edge though, to combat the ice dams.
Paul
|
186.243 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Mon Aug 24 1987 13:32 | 7 |
| Mineral-surface roll roofing should be okay. If you look on the paper
wrapped around a roll of of the stuff, it explains how to install it
on a flat roof. Seems to me that there's some made that is only
1/2 mineral surface; you goop up the bare half with roofing cement,
then lay the next strip on it, to get double coverage, but I may
be making that up...try going to your friendly neighborhood lumberyard
and asking what they'd recommend for a flat roof.
|
186.244 | Flat roofs are a %*#$(@ | MODL29::LEMKE | | Mon Aug 24 1987 14:14 | 23 |
|
re:.0
I have the same style roof, about 1.5"/foot rise, and had my roof
re-surfaced last year with double coverage, by a contractor.
I did have him install a membrane on the bottom 3' before the eave
to help prevent any leaks from ice dams, but I still remove the
snow from about 4' to 5' up from the eave just to make sure I don't
get any leaks from ice dams.
Didn't have any leaks last year with all that snow load we had,
but I still get a leak from long heavy rains, have since discovered
that my chimney is in such bad shape that water is leaking down
in through the mortar, or lack there of.
If you're planning on re-surfacing, and you already have two
layers,rolled roofing over shingles you'll have to strip off all
the existing roofing to bare wood, most contractors will not put
on three layers of roofing because the structure would not be able
to handle the weight of all that roofing plus the snow load.
|
186.212 | Roofing prices | JENEVR::GRISE | Tony Grise | Mon Aug 24 1987 17:11 | 13 |
|
I am building a new house and had roofing prices range
from $35 to $50/sq. The guy I went with was $40/sq. This
did not include materials. He did an excellent job, lots
of hips and steep pitches.
Shingles range in price from $20 to $75/sq. I went with
an IKO Cambridge line shingle. This is an archtectual shingle
rated for 25 years. It looks very good, much better than
a flat shingle. I paid $45/sq for the shingles.
|
186.268 | Roof leaks at chimney | ERLANG::BLACK | | Tue Sep 08 1987 17:12 | 48 |
| I've found lots of stuff on roofing, but no answere to these particular
questions.
(1) I have leaks where my roof meets the chimney:
[ ]
| | /
| | /
| | /
| |/
| /<-- leaks here
| /|
|/ |
/ |
/| |
/
This is obviously a bad spot, becasue all of the water that hits the roof
above the chimney runs into that V-shaped area, and some is getting in.
The mason that fixed my other chimney told me that I needed a cricket - from
what I understand, that is a little dormer that fits in the V, sideways on
to the main roof, so that the water will spill off to either side of the
chimney.
Questions: is he right? Where can I find someone to put this up? (The
roof is two stories up with a 40 degree pitch ... I have lots of other jobs
I'ld rather do.
(2) I have no gutters, and a combined drip-edge/vent. I'm happy to have the
water fall down to the ground, and not have to clean those gutters - we put
five tons of crushed stone down this summer fo it to land on. But where my
side door opens, I don't want the drips, and I want the ice build-up on the
step even less. Two solutions I've seen are a piece of gutter over the door
(only) and a sort of diverter built into the roof near the eaves, to send
the water to either side of the door. Diverter is like an inverted
V.
Questions: What is this thing called? Which is better? Can the diverter thing
be put up after the roof is in (House is six years old)
(3) What is the story on DiPietro Roofing? I remember reading about
DiPietro & Balicki, Carmen DiPietro, and Anthony DiPietro. One had a good
recommendation, and another had a story about letting the rain into some poor
guy's kitchen (two floors down) during a re-roofing job. Which is which?
Andrew Black
|
186.269 | Moving to Arizona might help, too | STAR::BECK | Paul Beck | Tue Sep 08 1987 17:56 | 26 |
| One set of answers:
(1) A cricket would solve the problem if properly installed.
Just make sure that where the cricket joins the existing
shingles it gets lapped adequately and/or the seam tarred;
I have a big cricket joining two roofs that leaked quite
a bit until I resealed it all around the edges. With a
reasonably steep pitch, it shouldn't be much of a problem.
As to other solutions - depends on where the rain is getting
in. I'd guess it's climbing up inside the flashing on the
chimney side rather than backing under the shingles, but
either (or both) is possible. A cheap solution might be to
assume both and tar over both the first 2-3 rows of shingles
and the bottom of the flashing, but this probably needs yearly
inspection, and probably causes some other problems that
somebody else is about to jump in and lecture me about.
(2) It's called a rain diverter, you can get them at any decent
hardware store in a variety of sizes. Can be added easily
to existing shingles, provided you don't have roof rolls
at the edge like I do. The gutter approach is probably more
effective (the rain diverter won't stop rain that falls within
the "V" from flowing over the edge), but arguably visually
less appealing, especially if it's just a short chunk of
gutter.
|
186.270 | Tucson or Phoenix? | ERLANG::BLACK | | Tue Sep 08 1987 18:25 | 5 |
| Thanks for the advice. Please be sure to let me know if DEC has
any openings in distributed systems in Arizona.
Andrew
|
186.213 | update | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri Sep 11 1987 12:21 | 28 |
| re:-1
$40/square? where the do you live? what's your roofer's name?
I just got two estimates, one included stripping the roof and disposing the
shingle in MY dump (I plan on checking with the town and it seems if they'll let
contractors dump there (he is a resident), they should at least let me do the
same). Anyhow, he wanted $180/square!!!!!
A second guy said I'd only have to strip the part of the roof I was modifying
and could simply put a second layer over the front froof. He only wanted $100
a square.
The REAL bad news is that I remeasured more carefully and came up with 34
squares. SO - the good news is I can save over $3000 doing it myself but the
bad news is that if I can do 5 squares a day it will definately take a good
4 weekends assuming no rain.
btw - what are opinions about a second layer of roofing? somehow I feel like
I'd be better off removing it even if it is a lot more work
how about drip edgses? the second roofer said I should use them and
I've noticed most houses don't. what do they do - prevent tar from
"leaking" down the sides of your house? if that's all, I haven't seen
many stained houses.
-mark
|
186.214 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri Sep 11 1987 12:44 | 13 |
| Re: .15
My feeling is, remove the old shingles. That way you can see what
the condition of the roof deck is, and fix any rot problems you
may have. "Out of sight, out of mind" is definitely NOT the way
to deal with structural problems! Take off the old shingles, see
what you have underneath, and fix anything that needs fixing.
Drip edge protects the edge of the roof from water. It keeps water
off the edge of the roof deck, and helps prevent rot. Try to get
the galvanized drip edge if you can, as wide as you can. The
galvanized tolerates having ladders leaned against it much better
than the aluminum drip edge does. Not everybody carries it, but
it is available.
|
186.271 | Action Roofing | ERLANG::BLACK | | Fri Sep 11 1987 14:02 | 18 |
| Well, for the record, here is what happened.
I called ACTION roofing (in Lowell) on Tuesday, and spoke to an
answering service. The guy called back! He came out on wednesday
and gave me an estimate for $180 to fix the leak. He said that we
didn't need a cricket, but just a decent job done withthe flashing.
He also quoted me $135 to do the rain diverter, which is an 8' long
peice of heavy gauge alluminum L section.
Before I moved to mass, I used to try and get three estinates.
Now I'm pleased that I can get one. So we told the guy to go ahead...
Now the shocker -- he did the work yesterday morning (Thursday)!
That's ACTION ROOFING! I'll let you know what happedns when it rains!
Andrew
|
186.215 | | RUTLND::SATOW | | Fri Sep 11 1987 14:18 | 7 |
| re: .15, .16
Drip edge also helps prevent mildew on the fascia. It's relatively
inexpensive, and a lot easier to apply when your reroofing than
later.
Clay
|
186.216 | | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon Sep 14 1987 12:02 | 15 |
| re:.-2
In reference to removing the old roofing to see what the deck look like, that
sounds like a good idea in most cases, but in mine, the whole house is only 10
years old and I've already seen the back half of the decking and it's virtually
brand new.
btw - I finally started roofing over the weekend and found I could do a bundle
in about an hour which would translate into rought 5 squares in an 8 hour day.
However, the one factor that wasn't taken into account was physical damage to
your body. I only got up 2 square since much time was spent at the lumber yard
and putting in a skylight, but even after only a few hours of roofing my legs,
feet and back felt like they died!
-mark
|
186.217 | | SAURUS::JOEL | | Mon Sep 21 1987 18:42 | 13 |
|
I have a 100 yr old cape with a square pitch. I've replaced several
shingles due to wind damage, but feel I'm not up to the whole job.
The single layer of asphalt shingles are nailed directly to 1" brds
nailed directly the the rafters. From the attic they appear to be
solid. The top of the ridge is straight.
How should I have the new roof mounted? Directly to the boards with
a layer of paper? Plywood over boards? Replace boards with plywood?
- Joel
|
186.218 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Sep 21 1987 19:09 | 24 |
| re: .19
If the old boards are reasonably solid, they should be fine as is.
Gaps up to 3/4" wide or so are tolerable, in fact, although the
fewer gaps the better, of course. You don't need paper under the
shingles; just put the new shingles directly on the roof deck.
The only purpose the 15# felt serves is as a temporary cover if
you get more stripped off in a day than you can reshingle.
Think about doing something along the eaves to control ice dams,
either a strip of 60# smooth roll roofing under the shingles, or
a strip of the high-tech ice and water barrier synthetic membrane
stuff.
I strongly suggest taking off the old shingles, especially with
a roof as old as yours, so you can see what the condition of the
roof deck is. You may find you need to replace a board or two,
especially at the eaves.
Try to get galvanized drip edge - it's more forgiving of having
a ladder leaned against it than the aluminum variety is.
All this has been discussed at endless length in other notes -
check 'em out.
|
186.219 | use the 15# underneath all your shingles | 3D::WHITE | Randy White, Doncha love old homes... | Tue Sep 22 1987 13:03 | 24 |
| re:-.1
Hi Steve-
> fewer gaps the better, of course. You don't need paper under the
> shingles; just put the new shingles directly on the roof deck.
> The only purpose the 15# felt serves is as a temporary cover if
> you get more stripped off in a day than you can reshingle.
I disagree, though the felt does serve as a temporary cover during
installation I believe it also adds some to the life of the roof (shingles)
For one thing it flattens out the surface the shingles lie on, especially
the old style board sheathed roof, its also an additional barrier against
water penetration. I've never done a roof without it and don't think it
wise to do so.
I strongly agree with the rest of your reply and any roof I have
seen done that way has withstood the test of time. If you have gutters
the aluminum drip edge should be fine since the gutter takes the weight
of the ladder.
These are just my thoughts and I have been known to be wrong before ;-}
Randy
|
186.220 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Sep 22 1987 13:31 | 18 |
| Re: .21
I used to be a paper underlayment believer too, until recently.
Then I thought about it, talked with a couple of people, and
became convinced that it serves no useful purpose. In fact, in
some cases I think it can be a detriment because it tends to
buckle, and can make bumps you then have to shingle over. In
the course of reshingling my house this past spring one section
I stripped off (the "new" (20-year-old) addition) had one layer
of shingles, with no paper underneath, and it was fine. I could
see no difference in the conditon of the roof deck or the shingles
when compared with other (older) areas of the roof where paper had
been used.
But to each his own. Plenty of roofs have been done using the 15#
felt underlayment, and they've worked just fine. I've done roofs
that way, with no problems. If it makes you feel better to use
it, do it.
|
186.272 | Resurfacing a flat roof? | LIONEL::SAISI | | Tue Sep 22 1987 19:50 | 6 |
| My garage has a flat roof that is covered with what looks
like big sheets of course black "paper", not shingles.
It leaks and I would like to resurface it. What should I
use/how should I do it? I am planning on *not* removing
what is there now unless there is some compelling reason
to do so.
|
186.273 | | LIONEL::SAISI | | Tue Sep 22 1987 20:15 | 8 |
| While I'm at it, I know there was a discussion here on
foundation cracks, but I can't find it in the directoryu
listings in 1111. What is the best substance for filling
1/2-1" cracks in a concrete foundation? They are mostly
above ground, so they don't let in water, but rather cold
air. Is this a bad sign (house is 70+ yrs. old)?
Will filling them prevent further cracking?
Linda
|
186.221 | If its no good why do they use it? | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Tue Sep 22 1987 23:38 | 16 |
| re.21 I agree
re.22 I disagree
For the very small price and minimal effort to put the paper on
I belive it to be the best way to go. My insurance company thought
so also when they quoted the estimate for materials. The inspector
belived it added to the life of the roof and the plywood decking
it was nailed to. Why do so many people worry about 20 bucks when
in the long run it can save them much more to spend it up front
not to mention the time and effort next time?
Besides, it is almost 100% that the job will take longer than expected
and it will rain on at least two of the days you plan to be roofing
on. Also if the paper is properly installed there will be no more
imprefection in than in the shingles above it.
-j
|
186.274 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | the Gort | Wed Sep 23 1987 00:09 | 23 |
| re.0 The roof is called composite and is actually several layers
of roofing paper and the board you describe. That form of roofing
was very popular here in colorado springs around the late 50's.
You can have it repaired but it WILL leak again soon. The best repair
is to have a pitched roof added over the top(no need to remove the
old) which will last about 3-5 times as long. The main problem with
the flat roof is to get proper drainage even the best done job will
have low spots that will hold water and sooner than later leak.
Several homes in my parents neighborhood were built with this style
of roof and all have since been replaced with a pitched roof.
As I remember it they said it was only slightly more expensive(long
run) to pitch the roof -vs- repairing the old one.
re.1 Those are some pretty good sized cracks! I would suggest haveing
a pro look at them since they could effect the overall strength
of the foundation. The smaller ones could be repaired with hydralic
cement fairly easy. BTW- patching them wont prevent further cracking
in most cases. Do you have any idea why it cracked in the first
place? That would be good to know and might help us suggest a way
to stop further cracking.
-j
|
186.222 | The joys of spousal competence... | JOET::JOET | | Thu Sep 24 1987 15:14 | 8 |
| I just had my shed dormer reshingled, and my wife and the contractor
both agreed that on a low-pitch roof, flatness is of utmost importance.
Hence, we had them put down new plywood over the 45 year old cupped and
warped boards.
-joet
P.S. They also decided on double coverage rolled roofing.
|
186.278 | Patching Nail Holes on a Roof | TSE::LEFEBVRE | Yankees Stink | Wed Sep 30 1987 11:14 | 10 |
| A quick question on a minor roof repair. Due to the angle of my
garage roof, I nailed a couple of pieces of 2x4 to the roof in order
to stand safely while staining my house.
Once I remove the 2x4s, how should I patch the nail holes to prevent
a leak.
Thanks for your help.
Mark.
|
186.279 | a little dab will do ya' | WFOVX3::KOEHLER | Here-there, hell I'm lost now! | Wed Sep 30 1987 12:41 | 9 |
|
I have patched nail holes with clear silicone. I just put the nozzle
of the calking gun in the hole and filled it leaving alittle around
the outside of the hole.
In the future nail a piece of sheet metal to a 2x4 and slide
the sheetmetal under a shingle and nail it. That way you won't
have exposed holes. This has worked for me in the past.
Jim
|
186.280 | | TSE::LEFEBVRE | Watcher of the skies | Wed Sep 30 1987 13:13 | 3 |
| Thanks for the tip, Jim. I'll try it.
Mark.
|
186.245 | Who knows about Aluminum roofing? | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Tue Oct 27 1987 21:27 | 13 |
|
I, too, have a shed roof that *desperately* needs fixing (it
rains inside almost as much as outside!). The roof is over my
garage/barn. Does anyone know anything about Aluminum roofing
(corrugated or otherwise)? As this is just an old barn and the
roof is not visible from the road (roof slopes toward the back
of the property), I am not terribly worried about appearance -
my main concerns are price, durability, and ease of installation
(for a DIYer). Thanks.
TM
|
186.246 | Rat-a-tat-tat | 15934::PALMER | half a bubble off plumb | Wed Oct 28 1987 11:20 | 8 |
|
How close is your house from the barn? Are bedrooms located
on the same side as the barn? My friend bought a house that had
an corrigated aluminum roofed shed right next to the house. Every
time it rains it sounds like a machine gun attack and he can't get
any sleep. He is planning to reroof in the spring.
=Ralph=
|
186.247 | Noise shouldn't be a problem | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Mon Nov 02 1987 19:09 | 12 |
| RE: 1444.5
I don't think that noise should be much of a problem. The barn
is about 20 feet from the house, and I am amazed at how little
noise can be heard inside the house, from either the outside, or
other people in the house (it's a 3 family). The heating system
is the only noise I usually hear (the old steam pipes). However,
to be sure, I guess I should call up the local NRA, to hear
demonstrate the sound of a machine gun.
TM
|
186.281 | Huh? | DECWET::FURBUSH | EF Hutton says: #@%$! | Thu Nov 05 1987 14:36 | 3 |
| re: .1
How do you nail UNDER a shingle?
|
186.282 | | AKOV76::CRAMER | | Thu Nov 05 1987 15:17 | 10 |
| re: .3
You gently lift the tab of the shingle so that you can get a
nail in. Roofing nails are good for hanging this kind of staging
as long as you are not talking very heavy loads. If you are loading
bricks to re-build a chimney or something use 8d common and make
sure you hit the rafters. If the tab cracks a dab of roofing cement
on the underside will prevent a leak.
Alan
|
186.283 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Nov 05 1987 15:54 | 5 |
| Re: .4
Personally, I'd ***NEVER!!!*** trust just roofing nails to hold
roofing brackets. Heavy loads or not, those brackets are holding
ME!!! 8d nails at least, and more than one per bracket, into the
rafters.
|
186.284 | How high matters too | AKOV76::CRAMER | | Thu Nov 05 1987 16:20 | 11 |
| re: .5
You're basically right. Better safe than sorry. However, I've seen
an awful lot of roofing done on staging held in place by roofing
nails (1 3/4" or longer). I should probably add that you shouldn't
span more than 6', 4' is better, with your staging and no matter
what kind of nails you use, use 3.
The roofing nails I always use are the hot dipped galv. which do
have pretty good holding power for light work.
Alan
|
186.285 | Use roofing nails | STAR::SWIST | Jim Swist ZKO1-1/D42 381-1264 | Fri Nov 06 1987 13:27 | 9 |
| re .4
Overkill. Prof roofers use plain old roofing nails. The nail is
placed in a strict 90 deg shear load by the bracket arrangement.
You would need a structural failure of either the bracket, the nail,
or the roof plywood to have the bracket let loose. The nail is
not going to be pulled out. And roofing nails have better holding
power and larger heads, so they are actually better for this
application than larger size common nails.
|
186.286 | | AKOV68::CRAMER | | Fri Nov 06 1987 13:40 | 18 |
| re: .7
I have done roofing as a professional and as I mentioned in .4
roofing nails are fine for normal loads. On extra heavy loads
common nails are better and must be in the rafters. The most
likely points of failure are the head of the roofing nail coming
off, and, if you don't hit a rafter, splitting out the edge of
the sheathing (much more likely on board sheathing). One of the
dangers is caused by the difficulty of hitting a nail square
when your working under a shingle. It is easy to damage the head
of a roofing nail this way. When you are working with
heavy loads (or too light planks) the staging can bounce and
exert pressure against the head.
Alan
PS Always place your load (tar paper, shingles, etc.) directly
over a bracket.
|
186.287 | Use 8d or 12d common nails. | LDP::BUSCH | | Tue Nov 10 1987 16:18 | 26 |
| < -< Use roofing nails? >-
< re .4
< Overkill. Prof roofers use plain old roofing nails. The nail is
< placed in a strict 90 deg shear load by the bracket arrangement.
< You would need a structural failure of either the bracket, the nail,
< or the roof plywood to have the bracket let loose. The nail is
< not going to be pulled out. And roofing nails have better holding
< power and larger heads, so they are actually better for this
< application than larger size common nails.
Re .-2, .-1
I agree, the heads of roofing nails are not the strongest. Also, they are not
that long that they can't be bent and thus be pulled out easier, especially if
they are only nailed into the sheathing.
Besides, after you're done with the bracket in one position and want to move it,
it's easier to lift the bracket off the common nails (through the keyhole shape
in the bracket) and simply hammer the nail all the way in. With roofing nails,
you have to try to remove the nail, possibly removing the head while you're at
it.
Dave
|
186.292 | ROOF LEAK QUESTIONS ????? | MPGS::HOFFMAN | | Mon Nov 30 1987 10:59 | 17 |
| On the "A" frame portion of my house, there was, or maybe I
should say is, water dripping from an exposed beam that runs through
a room. Earlier this year I installed a skylight, but this leak is approx.
2 to 3 feet above the skylight. A few questions that I have are:
1. WHAT SHOULD I DO 2. Will the wet insulation above the ceiling
cause any problems 3. Are there any interim "bandaids" that I can
apply till the rain stops 4. With the weather being dubious, what
are my options.
Although I did not climb onto the roof during the heavy rain,
I did notice from the ground that in the approx. area of the leak
there is a plastic vent pipe going through the roof. The pipe has
metal flashing at the base and appears to have black sealer where
the pipe and the flashing meet.
Thanx in advance for all replies.
/Al
|
186.293 | What a drag ! | 3D::BOOTH | Stephen Booth | Mon Nov 30 1987 11:58 | 12 |
|
Sounds like the vent pipe to your bathroom is leaking. I would
stop by the hardware store and buy some roof sealer and a cheap
paint brush. Go onto the roof and and spread it around the affected
area. If your not sure where the leak is and you have access to
the inside of the roof then bang a nail thru the roof as a reference
and then patch from the outside. Fix it real SOON !!!! This water
will cause major damage to the walls and ceiling !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
-Steve-
|
186.294 | Wet insulation stinks! Literally! | AKOV75::CRAMER | | Mon Dec 07 1987 15:38 | 11 |
| Wet insulation is a large problem. 1) it doesn't insulate. 2)
it retains the moisture so that you will almost certainly get rot
if you don't clear it out pretty soon, and 3) it can mildew and
cause very unpleasant odors which are next to impossible to get
rid of.
Also, tracing your leak can be a real bear. The easiest way I know
of is to wait for a sunny (or at least dry day) and use a hose
on the roof. Work from the bottom up until your leak starts dripping.
Alan
|
186.248 | roofing | TWOBOS::LAFOSSE | | Sat Jan 23 1988 15:00 | 11 |
| putting up a tin roof is a snap... we did one in august in vt over
our hunting camp. We had 4x8 sheets of corrugated aluminum roofing,
and it's nothing more than nailing them down along the ridges with
special nails (2" - 2 1/2" roofing nails with rubber washers under
the head) every foot or so. Tin snips where necessary and your done.
one recomendation, be sure its cool out and not overly sunny out,
as the tin gets awfully hot, and a roof is no place to be on a hot
sunny day.
Fra
|
186.313 | Fastening/unfastening roof braces | CIMNET::LUNGER | Dave Lunger, 291-7797, MET-1/K2 | Tue Feb 16 1988 14:02 | 19 |
| I've used different methods to solve the following problem without
finding any really good method, so I'd like to ask in case someone
whose nailed into roof's has a good answer, or in case you havn't,
maybe the collective notes file brain can come up with some ideas:
You are painting your house and using pump-jacks, or working on a roof
and installing roof braces. In any case, you use 12 penny or 16 penny
nails to fasten a brace to the roof. You pick up the top flap of shingles,
and bang the nail in, piercing the lower shingle, and either going into
a rafter or just sticking in free space inside the roof (or some spiders
web). Do you bang the nail in part way, and then bend it over the brace
for easy removal? Do you bang the nail in all the way? Then when you
are done with the roof brace, and remove it, do you remove the nail... or
just bang it in all the way? If you remove the nail, then you have a hole
in your roof. If you leave the nail in, then you've got an elevated spot
where the upper shingle may wear away a hole.
Any advice would be appreciated...
|
186.314 | it's all in the keyhole | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Tue Feb 16 1988 15:27 | 21 |
| You're making it too hard. If your roof brackets look like the ones I've used,
they have a keyhole in them something like:
--
| |
| |
| |
/ \
| |
------
The nail head is big enough to fit through the bottom but too small to fit
through the top. So, when you're ready to remove them, you tap the bottom of
the bracket forcing the nail to land in the wider part and the bracket comes
right off. Then you simply pound the nail the rest of the way in.
ONE CATCH!!! make sure the heads of your nails are indeed smaller than the
wide opening. I've been using 8d galvanized nails and feel they are plenty
strong.
-mark
|
186.315 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Feb 16 1988 15:32 | 4 |
| Yep, leave the nail there, just pound it in all the way. If you're
paranoid about leaks, put a dollop of roofing cement or silicone
on it.
|
186.316 | Yep, and Yep | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Tue Feb 16 1988 17:49 | 11 |
| Having worn through the knees of many pairs of pants and the toes
of shoes shingling roofs, I third the advice in the previous replies.
If you have used nails too big to fit through the keyhole, use a
flat bar to pry out the nails. You shouldn't bend the nails over
'cause it is too easy to tear the shingles.
It is a good idea to use a dab of cement under the tabs, in any case,
to seal the tab down against the wind.
Alan
|
186.317 | | TRACTR::FOSS | | Wed Feb 17 1988 11:51 | 6 |
| A couple of things. 8d common nails will work fine for roofing
brackets, just make sure when you nail them they are centered above
the throat of the shingle below. This makes sure that the tab for
the next shingle will cover the nails.
When using pump staging you can use double headed 8d nails to secure
the bracket.
|
186.318 | Hit a RAFTER | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Wed Feb 17 1988 12:08 | 8 |
| The most important thing in placing roof braces is hitting a rafter!
You shouldn't rely on just the sheathing, if hitting a rafter means
putting the nail in a slot, move your bracket up, or down, a course.
Alan
PS. As long as you are under a tab and use some cement when done
your nail doesn't have to be centered under the tab
|
186.59 | re .1: Is Anthony the "good" DiPietro? | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Thu Mar 03 1988 18:31 | 12 |
| Under roofers, my Concord/Maynard yellow pages has ads for
Anthony J. Di Pietro and Sons
and
Carmen A. Di Pietro Construction Co.
The latter is clearly the roofer that .1 warned against.
Is the former the roofer with the good reputation in Maynard?
Thanks,
Larry
|
186.540 | Stucco House with Slate Roof? | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Mar 11 1988 15:09 | 11 |
| We're considering buying a two-family in Brookline MA (for a
heated discussion of the financial side see TALLIS:REAL_ESTATE
note 735.*).
The house has a painted stucco exterior and a slate roof.
The owner says the roof needs (and has received) annual
maintenance of approximately $300 and that the stucco needs
occasional patching (twice in their 12 years' ownership) and
regular painting (every 5 to 7 years?). Are there any
particular problems with this kind of exterior?
|
186.541 | Slate is Great | KRAPPA::GRILLO | Harley potato | Fri Mar 11 1988 19:25 | 18 |
| I've owned a two family with a slate roof for 12 years. I figure
that the roof is over 75 years old and if I maintain it properly it will
probably last longer than I will. There are 300 year old houses in New
England that have slate roofs. I have replaced most of the missing slates
myself and the damaged ones that remain have not shown signs of leakage.
The one thing I noticed about a slate roof is that in the middle
of the winter on a warm day you could expect an avalanche of snow to come
down off the roof. A heavy snow load is one of the things that can cause
damage to slate. Ice dams cause damage to the slates at the edge of the
roof. In 12 years I'v had to replace 6-8 slates. I usually do a post
winter inspection of the roof to see how bad the winter damage was.
I don't have a stucco exterior so I can't help you there.
guido
|
186.324 | leaky roof on cross gable | DELNI::GOLDSTEIN | Resident curmudgeon | Fri May 20 1988 17:39 | 21 |
| I'm surprised this hasn't come up yet, but I didn't find it in 1111.73.
My roof has a small leak. It's an asphalt roof, rather steep (maybe
55 degrees at that spot), and while it's supposed to not be very
old (5-10 years, claimed the RE agent who just sold us the 1932
vintage house), that area might be an older roof.
The house is a side entry colonial with a cross gable sticking forward;
the gable roof begins to rise about halfway through the second floor.
On the interior, it forms an alcove whose walls begin to close in
at 4 feet above (second) floor level. A foot or so above the spot
where it slants, the recent rains have caused a roughly 7" wet spot
on the interior wallpaper. (The wallpaper is loose all around...)
So we're leaking near the bottom of the gable roof. (For fun, the
gable has no vents, and is attached to the attic on the outside,
so it's not open into the attic.)
I can reach this roof section by standing on the porch roof. Are
there roof patching compounds that make this easy to fix, or do
we need a real roofer?
fred
|
186.325 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Fri May 20 1988 17:59 | 36 |
| I can't visualize the structure you're talking about, but here
are a few general thoughts about patching roofs:
The leak may actually be some distance (possibly several feet)
away from where it's appearing. The water can come in under
the shingles, run down the roof deck for a ways, come through
the roof deck, run down a rafter for a ways, drip down the rafter,
run along the top of the ceiling for a ways, then finally come
through and be visible. So you may have to do a bit of careful
scrutiny of the actual roof surface to determine where the leak
really is. Areas to view with great suspicion are any valleys,
around chimneys or vent pipes, where the roof meets any dormers
or other structures, and possibly along ridges. It's pretty rare
to have a leak in the middle of a section of roof, although it is
possible. By the time that happens though, the roof is usually
in such bad shape that it's obviously in need of replacement.
"Roofing cement", otherwise known as tar, applied in sufficient
quantity, will fix almost anything. It's about $6.00 a gallon,
last I knew. There are a couple of different consistencies available,
one is really thick, the other is allegedly thinner but it still
pretty thick. Personally, I'd opt for the thinner variety. It's
a little easier to spread around. (I've got an unopened gallon
I'll sell you for $5.00, if you want it.)
Wait for a dry day, get up on the roof and spread the roofing cement
on likely-looking leak places, and hope for the best. Remember
that water runs downhill, and as you're patching things do so with
water flow in mind. The idea is to encourage the water to run off the
roof.
Wear old clothes you don't care about ruining, because you probably will.
Roofing cement is incredible. I think it has a magnetic attraction
for skin.
Roofing cement will work if you have a localized leak you can plug
up. If your roof is generally deteriorating, you'd probably be
better off to tear off the old one and re-roof, although patching
with roofing cement might buy you some time.
|
186.326 | | FRSBEE::DEROSA | because a mind is a terrible thing | Mon May 23 1988 12:14 | 11 |
| When I added an addition to my house, the roof leaked a little in
the valley where the addition roof met the original roof. I was
able to find the leak easily because the inside of the addition
was not finished yet. To fix it, I just bought some roofing cement
and put it all along the valley and like magic, the leak went away.
Of course, adding roofing cement is not a substitute for replacing
roofing shingles that are in bad condition. But if your roof is
in good general condition, this should work for you too. The only
hard thing is to FIND the leak....
Bob
|
186.327 | maybe the valley, maybe condensation? | DELNI::GOLDSTEIN | Resident curmudgeon | Mon May 23 1988 13:55 | 18 |
| It's been very humid (not to mention rainy) for the past few days
so I've had more time to observe the problem.
The moisture is now visible on both sides of the gable, opposite
sides of its roof peak. On the side on which I hadn't noticed it
at first, the moistest spot is pretty far out from the main house.
But on both sides, the moisture accumulates at the point where the
vertical interior wall becomes a slanting interior wall.
From the outside, all of the shingles look excellent, not old.
It's possible the joint between the gable roof and the main roof
is at fault. But condensation could also be involved. There are
no vents above the ceiling of the gable. Would venting it into
either the main attic or outside at the (little) soffit be likely
cures for this type of leak? Is there any good way to distinguish
condensation from roof leakage? (Usually, when it's that humid,
it's raining.)
fred
|
186.328 | Dormer flashing? | 20988::CRAMER | | Mon May 23 1988 18:13 | 29 |
| I believe that we have a terminological problem here. It sounds
to me that you are describing a gable end dormer, true?
----------------------------------------
| |
| | Top down view of roof
| |
| |
| |
---------------------------------------- <--- ridge of main
| | roof
| |
| /|\Gable end dormer |
| / | \ |
| / |<--- ridge of dormer |
----------------------------------------
Pardon the graphics, but, if this is what your roof looks like
10 to 1 that your leak is at the point where your dormer
meets the main roof. This is a particularly hard place to
water-proof due to the way that the flashing has to be cut.
Tar the hell out of this point and a way down each valley
and you should solve the problem. Make sure that you get
the tar UNDER the shingles at least to the height of the slot.
Alan
|
186.329 | water then runs inside the gable/dormer? | DELNI::GOLDSTEIN | Resident curmudgeon | Tue May 24 1988 14:43 | 13 |
| I don't think it's technically a gable-end dormer, but the junction
is the same. (By my understanding of the architectural term, a
dormer doesn't extend the foundation size of the house; a cross-gable
does. It's an ell grafted onto the house, with a crawlway foundation
in front of the main foundation. And it's front-gabled, while the
main house is side-gabled. Does that make it a cross-gabled ell?
Shows what I get for reading A Field Guide to North American Houses.)
Sounds like that _could_ be it, although the wet spots are forward
of the valleys on both sides. BTW on closer examination the asphalt
shingles are of the white-speckled variety, but there's some tar
at the junction of the gable/dormer and the main roof anyway. I
presume tar is always black. (Is there clear silicone roof sealer?)
|
186.330 | Check the ridge | 20981::CRAMER | | Tue May 24 1988 15:28 | 15 |
| re: .5
Okay, now I understand. You're right, a dormer doesn't extend the
foundation. Somehow, I missed the fact that this was and added on
ell.
Remember that the point where the leak shows up is only slightly
related to the point that is actually leaking. I've seen a leak
from one side of a roof show up on the opposite wall, the water
was running across a collar tie.
If you have two leak through points, one on either side of the roof,
my bet would be, especially if the roof looks okay, one leak somewhere
along the ridge.
Alan
|
186.331 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue May 24 1988 16:27 | 9 |
| You might think about cutting an access hole through from the main
attic into the inaccessible area; start with a small hole first,
just enough to see what's in there, then enlarge to body-size
if you want to get in. I wouldn't cut a large hole at the very
beginning; see how the framing is laid out on the other side first
before you do major surgery.
And, of course, make sure you cut in the right place, so you break
into the enclosed area and don't just go through the roof into thin
air!
|
186.332 | Flashing and drip edges when reshingling a roof | SALEM::PAGLIARULO | | Tue Jun 14 1988 16:42 | 29 |
| I've got a couple of questions on reshingling a house. The
present roof is in good shape as far as curling or buckling is
concerned so I'm going to reshingle over the current roof rather
than strip it. Currently there is no drip edge around the perimeter
of the roof.
When I install the drip edge before I reshingle should it go under
the first layer of shingles or should it go between the first and
second layer?
As far as the rest of the flashing is concerned (stack, chimney,
dormer wall) should it just be repeated so that in effect waht I end up
with is two layers of flashing, the flashing for the first layer and
the flashing for the second?
The shakes on the dormer walls come right down to the shingles.
When I put on a second layer the surface of the shingles will be
higher than the bottom of the shakes. Should I cut 3/4" or so off
the bottom of the shakes to give me room to slide flashing up behind
them?
Finally, I'm also going to be installing a ridge vent. Should
I put the vent on and then reshingle or reshingle and then put the
vent in? Does it matter?
Thanks for the help
George (who hates to pay for ANY DIY type job if I don't have to)
|
186.333 | Drip goes in between | FRSBEE::DEROSA | because a mind is a terrible thing | Tue Jun 14 1988 17:25 | 12 |
|
I can answer the drip edge part of it. The drip edge goes between
the two layers. You can do two things... One is to cut the overhang
off of the old shingle and put you drip edge over that so it is
flush with the fashur(sp?) board. The other thing is they make special
"J" channel drip edge that wraps around the old shingle and "hides"
it and it works like regular drip edge.
The first one requires an extra step but looks neater. The second
is easier and it looks almost as good as the first....
Hope this helps
Bob
|
186.334 | | SHOREY::SHOREY | a legend in his own mind... | Tue Jun 14 1988 21:04 | 23 |
| how old is your roof?
i shingled mine 3 weeks ago. there were some places they had never
put drip edge, and some places they had. the roof was 24 years
old (i assume it had never been done), and was in so so shape.
i contemplated shingling over what was there, then decided to strip
the old one off (just for chuckles).
every place there wasn't a drip edge the plywood underneath was
rotted for 12" - 16" up the edge of the roof. i also found out
that the plywood was only 3/8" thick.
i'm glad i stripped it, because i never would have suspected the
rot, and i wouldn't want 2 layers of shingles on 3/8" plywood.
of course if you strip yours you may find everythings ok underneath,
but if you shingle over what's there you'll never know.
for the 1/2 day's work it was worth it for me. better to be safe
than sorry.
bs
|
186.335 | Ridge vent goes on OVER the last course... | BEING::PETROVIC | Looking for a simpler place & time... | Wed Jun 15 1988 14:08 | 15 |
| < Note 2390.0 by SALEM::PAGLIARULO >
<
< Finally, I'm also going to be installing a ridge vent. Should
< I put the vent on and then reshingle or reshingle and then put the
< vent in? Does it matter?
<
Most ridge vents are applied over the final course, however, I've
seen some that are called 'shingle-over.' These look nicer in
that they are covered with the last course of shingling somehow.
Mine are of the older style, so it's applied when the job's done
by smearing a little roof cement on the underside of the vent
lips, nailing down with roofing nails and gooping over the
nailheads.
Chris
|
186.336 | weight | TPVAX2::MCELROY | | Wed Jun 15 1988 19:44 | 5 |
| There are definite limits to the amount of weight that any given
roof can support. Make sure that you have only one layer of shingles
currently on the roof before you add another. (The fact that the
current roof is so high up on the dormer might indicate more than
one layer already there!)
|
186.337 | | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Thu Jun 16 1988 00:40 | 16 |
| I guess I agree with the previos replies and will only attempt to answer the
other questions. Where the new shingles are higher than the siding, my vote
would be to remove enough siding to get IT to overlap the shingles. The
shingles should NOT even touch the siding or capilary action will suck in
water every time it rains and you'll get rot for sure. As far as flashing, if
you can get any in, that's great, but it's not easy (nor will removing 1/2"
or so from the siding). If you can, use STEP flashing and not long strips.
STEP flashing is $.10 a piece at Spags.
As far as dealing with the chimney, I'm stumped. My guess (and believe me,
it's only a guess) would be to simply butt the new shingles up to the chimney
and under the existing flashing. I'm not really sure how to deal with where
it is overlapped by the old shingles, but as with most things, when you get
there you simply do what makes sense at the time.
-mark
|
186.338 | Never was very observant..... | SALEM::PAGLIARULO | | Thu Jun 16 1988 15:59 | 18 |
186.339 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Jun 16 1988 16:29 | 16 |
| Personally, I'd strip the roof. At least four reasons:
1. You'll find any rot or structural problems that may exist.
"Out of sight, out of mind" does NOT work with house problems.
I found some dandy problems when I stripped my roof last year.
2. The new shingles will last longer...at least, that's my opinion
based on personal observation.
3. You'll be able to do a better job.
3. You'll get rid of a lot of weight. Sure, the roof will probably
hold it, but why have it there if you don't need it?
But, if you still don't want to...I expect the 3/8" plywood will
hold up okay with two layers of shingles.
|
186.340 | How much overhang? | LDYBUG::MCGOLDRICK | | Fri Jun 17 1988 16:29 | 8 |
| What's the purpose of the shingles overhanging the drip edge?
My DIY book says 3/8", but I've noticed that some roofs have the overhang,
and some just line up the shingles with the drip edge.
Also, if you use the J-style drip edge, the drip edge already
forms an overhang. Do the shingles also have to overhang this?
John
|
186.341 | | AKOV68::CRAMER | | Fri Jun 17 1988 17:24 | 20 |
| Shingles overhanging the drip-edge do so to help prevent water seeping
back up between the two. At least that was the rationale given
by the boss I had who did it that way. Of course, I had another
boss who swore that they should be even for aesthetic reasons and
because the overhang would sag in hot weather.
My personal approach is to make them even but have cement the shingles
to the drip edge.
re: two layers
A second layer of shingles (asphalt) will wear out much faster
than one layer. The reason is that the top shingles are not supported
well in two places; 1) the slots of the lower course and 2) the
change in courses. When the weather gets very hot the shingles
will sag at these points. When the weather turns cold they will
crack and leak. I've been told that a 25 year roof can last as
little as 10 years because of this.
Alan
|
186.342 | Flat surface for shingling | SALEM::PAGLIARULO | | Fri Jun 17 1988 18:05 | 14 |
| >>> A second layer of shingles (asphalt) will wear out much faster
than one layer. The reason is that the top shingles are not supported
well in two places; 1) the slots of the lower course and 2) the
change in courses.
One of the roofers I talked to explained the following: when you
shingle over an existing roof before the first course is applied
a row of shingles should be applied with the notches pointed towards
the peak. This course is butted up against the end of the second course
of shingles, nailed down and the excess overhang cut off. If you do
this then it provides a flat surface for the first and each succeding course
of shingles. I think it would eliminate both on the above problems.
George
|
186.343 | correction to last reply | SALEM::PAGLIARULO | | Fri Jun 17 1988 18:09 | 8 |
| reading my last reply I realized I explained things wrong. What
you want to do on the first course is use the part of the shingle
without the slots. That way you end up with a flat solid base for
all the succeeding courses. The way I explained it in the last
reply would leave you with the notched part of the shingle on the
first course.
George (who wishes notes had a graphics option)
|
186.344 | Stip the old | FREDW::MATTHES | | Sun Jun 19 1988 09:02 | 14 |
| Strip the roof. By the time you get done preparing per the
last 2 replys, you would have had it stripped.
We are running out of places to get rid of this stuff (landfills).
The NEXT time you need to re-roof, it will cost 10 times to get
rid of the existing roof than the materials for the new. By keeping
the old roof now you just doubled that cost.
Ya, I know, "I ain't gonna be here." Suppose you are. Even if
you aren't, why screw the next guy.
Besides, given the extra weight, extra prep, wear, unseen rot, it
just doesn't make sense not to strip it. It's not that tough a
job when yopu come right down to it.
|
186.345 | | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Mon Jun 20 1988 15:06 | 8 |
| re: .11 & .12
That only helps the first course. All succeeding courses will still
be in the same relation to the underlying layer, and the slots in
that layer provide a weak point in the top layer due to the sag
caused by hot weather.
Alan-who-used-to-do-that-stuff-for-a-living
|
186.347 | Still got the slots | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Mon Jun 20 1988 19:55 | 7 |
| RE: .15
This will work if the exposures are the same for the old and new,
but, will still not support the new layer where it bridges the slots
in the old layer.
Alan
|
186.349 | | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Tue Jun 21 1988 12:06 | 20 |
| Re .17
The process, which I have seen first hand several times, is that
the sun heats the top layer till it sags into the slot, when it
cools off it cracks ( the cycle has to be repeated alot, but, we
are talking years here ) With each cycle the sagging and cracking
loosens the granules of the shingle which are washed out by the
rain. This is especially notable at the point where the rain drips
off a course directly onto a sagged/cracked area.
When I have stripped roofs it has always been possible to see exactly
where the slots on the underneath layer were, by looking at the
wear pattern on the top layer.
You are right as far as lack of support on an original roof if there
are cracks in the decking. It also has the additional potential
to warp (assuming non-plywood). This is the reason that good carpenters
or builders make sure that the roof decking is smooth.
Alan
|
186.368 | Add hip rafters to gazebo roof? | BUSY::AKOZAK | | Tue Jun 21 1988 15:19 | 29 |
| I am now up to the roof portion of my gazebo (16'). I have all
the rafters in place, and am now putting the cedar 1x8 tongue an
d groove on. The question is as follows:
The span between rafters at its most distant point is as much as
60". In the middle, about 24", and at the very top, just a few
inches.
Should I add hip rafters? Hip rafters start at the end of a rafter,
and are about half as long. You nail a hir rafter to the inner
sides of 2 long rafters, and they meet somewhere in the middle,
as follows:
x x
x x
x x
x x x
x x x x
x x x x
x x x x
x x
Well, that's the idea, anyway. I know that it will add a lot of
strength, but except for shingling, no one is going up there anyway.
The roof has a VERY steep pitch on it for snow loads.
Any help is appreciated.
Andy
|
186.369 | 24" Stud spacing | CURIE::BBARRY | | Tue Jun 21 1988 16:30 | 38 |
| You basically answered your own question. Snow load. In general,
the span between nominal 1 inch lumber(as opposed to plywood) should
not exceed 24".
< Should I add hip rafters? Hip rafters start at the end of a rafter,
< and are about half as long. You nail a hir rafter to the inner
< sides of 2 long rafters, and they meet somewhere in the middle,
< as follows:
I think you mean jack rafters or specifically hip jacks. I was
confused by your graphics and description. It appeared that
the tops of the rafters were free floating which would increase the
sag on the sheathing. Here is a crude drawing of what a hip rafter
and hip jack is. A "hip" is the line where two adjoining roof surfaces
meet in an convex angle. Hip jacks run from the hip rafter to the
wall plates.
x x x
x x x
x x x
x o x
xvvvvvo ovvvvvx
x o v v o x
x o v v o x
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
o Hip Rafter
v Hip Jack
Side question, It sounds as if you did not get your plans approved by
the building inspector. They don't necessarily have to be checked
(e.g. no plumbing, no electrical, not attached to the house, obvious
set back). Why no building inspector, or permit? If you are using
T&G sheathing, you are probably building a high quality(i.e. high
investment) structure.
Brian
|
186.370 | Add jacks, 60" sounds too far | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Tue Jun 21 1988 16:32 | 29 |
| If the bottom of your drawing is the outside wall, I think that
you have it backwards. The rafters you have installed are the
Hip rafters. What you may need to add are jack rafters which run
from the hip rafter to the top plate of the wall.
Note, on your drawing that at the wall you still have the 5' span.
Adding jack rafters will decrease the span. On a normal hip roof,
the geometry of a gazebo roof is too complicated to explain this
for, the jack rafters are parallel to the normal rafters. The diagram
is a normal hip roof frame seen from the top. That is one hip of
a roof.
The ridge and center jack rafter are +++
The hip rafter, which runs from the buildings corner to the
ridge, is ***
The normal rafters are :
The jack rafters are --- and |
* | | : :
*| | : :
--* | : :
*| : :
----* : :
*: :
+++++++++++
Note that jack rafters from from the wall to the hip rafter,
and normal rafters from the wall to the ridge.
Alan
|
186.371 | Seconding the motion | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Tue Jun 21 1988 16:35 | 6 |
| re: .1&.2
Simultaneous entries with the same message. BBARRY by a nose.
:^)
Alan
|
186.372 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Jun 21 1988 17:03 | 16 |
| Whatever you call 'em, 60" is too much span and you need some more
support in there. Probably two per wedge, so you divide it roughly
into thirds. I hope I'm visualizing this correctly. Another attempt
at abysmal graphics, a picture of one "wedge" of the roof, from
the top:
/\
/ \
/ \
/| |\
/ | | \
/ | | \
/ | | \
/----|----|----\
|<----60"----->|
|
186.373 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Jun 21 1988 17:05 | 2 |
| By the way, I'm afraid I don't follow your drawing or explanation
in .0 at all....
|
186.374 | | AMULET::TAYLOR | | Tue Jun 21 1988 17:19 | 11 |
| re: .0, If you live in the Maynard area, take a ride to Dunstable,
someone (the town??) just built a Gazebo in the center
of town by the schools/church/town hall on Rt113
looks real nice, I haven't taken a close look
but maybe the roof framing is exposed inside and you
could see how it was done..
Royce
|
186.375 | Answer to .1 | BUSY::AKOZAK | | Tue Jun 21 1988 17:35 | 6 |
| Thank you for your excellent comments in .1. I do have a building
permit; the plans came from Better Homes and Gardens. I am now
in the situation of every time someone sees the gazebo, that I get
"Oh by the way, did you ever think of .....". Seeing that in spaces
that I do have greater than 24", but an extraordinarily high pitched
roof, I thought I would ask. Thank you. AK
|
186.376 | AGREE WITH REPLY 4 | GRANPA::JRUBBA | | Wed Jun 22 1988 05:16 | 5 |
| I agree with reply 4. This should prove to have the best appearance
from inside. It will also give you nailing about 20 inches o/c
(on center) in the area with the 60" span.
jar
|
186.60 | Two Layers of Shingles | IAMOK::DELUCO | Jim DeLuco | Tue Jun 28 1988 16:37 | 8 |
| I saw some earlier comments regarding putting new shingles over
old ones. Cautions were mentioned if shingles have curled. I have
a 20 year old roof and the shingles don't appear to have curled
but I lost some during a severe thunderstorm (more like a tornado).
Are there any other considerations when doing this? How will this
look? Will it be obvious that there's two layers?
|
186.61 | Can't see it from my house | AKOV88::CRAMER | | Tue Jun 28 1988 17:54 | 5 |
| re: .39
It will not be obvious.
Alan
|
186.62 | See also Note 2390.* | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Jun 28 1988 18:05 | 1 |
|
|
186.545 | Straight house - crooked street problem - HELP | BPOV06::TORTORELLI | | Wed Aug 03 1988 16:50 | 22 |
|
We have a BIG problem with the boundries to our property and our
new next door neighbor.
Apparently when the city of Worcester put in the street they did
not put it in according to the original plan for the area which
was filed at the Registry of Deeds.
Now what happened is that the person who built the house built it
squarely facing the street that was there - but according to the
Registry plans the house is on the lot at an angle.
Our new neighbor is now claiming that his land runs on an angle
to within 13 feet of our house at the rear and claims a good part
of our back yard (right in back of our house).
Has this ever happened to anyone before? We are trying to straighten
it out, but right now we are fumbling in the dark - not sure of
where to do and to whom to do to for help.
Phyllis
|
186.546 | | ULTRA::PRIBORSKY | Swamps professionally drained. | Wed Aug 03 1988 17:16 | 1 |
| Sounds like survey time. Hope you bought title insurance.
|
186.547 | | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Wed Aug 03 1988 17:58 | 11 |
| The boundaries of your land should have nothing to do with where the house is.
The house may be mis-sited on the plans, but I haven't seen any land deeds
that reference the house for setting boundaries. Besides, it should be a
simple matter just by looking at the North arrow on the old plot plan (assuming
there is one) to determine whether either the road or the house has changed
since the deed. Even if there is no plot plan, you should be able to determine
if the road has changed since the deed was written.
Definitely sounds like survey time.
Paul
|
186.548 | Another source for question | HPSMEG::LUKOWSKI | Nat'l apathy week & nobody cares! | Wed Aug 03 1988 20:04 | 2 |
| You may also want to adress this in the REAL_ESTATE notes file.
KP7 to select.
|
186.549 | Title Coverage | CHOVAX::GILSON | | Fri Aug 05 1988 16:55 | 4 |
| This is a matter which should be covered by your title insurance.
Before the company issues a policy it requires a survey which they
should have on file if you don't. Check with them before escalating
the problem.
|
186.550 | Title Coverage???? | BPOV02::TORTORELLI | | Mon Aug 08 1988 12:02 | 27 |
| This is the first time I have ever heard of Title Insurance, so
I would guess we don't have it. When do you get it? No one ever
told us anything about it when we bought the house -which was 21
years ago.
We do have an old survey we got from the bank, but it is a tape
survey and from what I have heard they are not very accurate. The
tape survey shows our house set on the lot at an angle - but the
house measures exactly the same from both corners to the front of
the street. I called city hall and they said it was impossible
that the street would have been put in differently than the original
plan. The original plan was drawn in 1915 and the street was paved
in about 1974 - prior to that it was a dirt road.
I guess it is time to have a good survey done, but it makes us angry
that we have to put out the money because the jerk next door won't
do it and he is causing all the trouble in the first place.
The funny thing about it is, if our house is set on the lot on an
angle all the houses in our section of the street are also on an
angle as they are all even with the street.
It seems like things like this only happen to us - sure makes life
more interesting.
Phyllis
|
186.551 | | BINKLY::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Mon Aug 08 1988 16:11 | 11 |
| >< Note 2523.3 by HPSMEG::LUKOWSKI "Nat'l apathy week & nobody cares!" >
>> -< Another source for question >-
>
> You may also want to adress this in the REAL_ESTATE notes file.
>
>
>
>I would really suggest this, there is some good expertise there...
>
>TALLIS::REAL_ESTATE
|
186.552 | Attached to Mortgage | CHOVAX::GILSON | | Mon Aug 08 1988 17:37 | 5 |
| re .4
Most mortgage companies require title insurance before they make
the loan. If you have a mortgage, the policy may be attached. Re
addressing your questions in REAL_ESTATE, I second the suggestion.
|
186.553 | | CIRCUS::KOLLING | Karen, Sweetie, & Holly; in Calif. | Tue Aug 09 1988 01:18 | 10 |
| The surveys commonly attached to bank documents are not very helpful
ones. You want to hop down to city hall and ask to see the plot
plan for your particular lot, which should say exactly how far your
lot boundaries are from some fixed marker, perhaps little metal
gizmos you're never noticed in the sidewalk. I wouldn't shell
out money for a survey -- if your neighbor thinks the lots are
incorrectly defined, let him pay the money. If a licensed surveyor
says he's right, then you need to see a lawyer. Even if the lots are
incorrectly defined, you may have some right of possession.
|
186.382 | Moss growing on my roof! | EXIT26::MAAS | Ken Maas | Tue Aug 09 1988 11:51 | 15 |
| I wonder if anyone can help with my problem.
I have a roof that is for the most part flat. Although it
has a slight slope, it tends to "pond" water after a rain storm.
As a result, moss has been growing on the roof. Does anyone have
any suggestions as to how to get rid of the moss. If I could
afford it, I would re-do the roof to add more of a slope. Also
we have a fair number of trees that block some of the sun from
hitting the roof and drying it out.
Any thoughts? Someone suggested putting a bleach solution on the
moss to kill it?
Ken Maas
|
186.383 | Copper flashing | PALMER::PALMER | half a bubble off plumb | Tue Aug 09 1988 12:03 | 7 |
| I've seen a strip of copper flashing bent in a V and run length
wise down the roof peak to control moss. The rain runs down the
flashing, picks up a bit of the copper and acts like fungicide for
the roof. I've only seen this done with cedar shingle roofs and do
not know if it will stain asphalt shingles.
=Ralph=
|
186.384 | | CLOSUS::HOE | Sammy's daddy | Tue Aug 09 1988 12:53 | 0 |
186.385 | Acid rain strikes again | WFOV12::BISHOP | | Wed Aug 10 1988 16:28 | 2 |
|
Alan
|
186.554 | DIY surveying | NAC::S_JACOBS | Live Free and Prosper | Wed Aug 10 1988 17:01 | 16 |
| You can do a quick check of the property line by yourself, and then
decide if you need to hire a surveyer. Your deed should have all
the specs on the property lines written down, and referenced to
something (usually a more or less permanent marker somewhere near
or on your property). Get out a compass and tape measure, and try
to determine the boundaries yourself. Remember to account for the
magnetic deviation from true north, which is fairly high around
here (16-17 degrees in S NH).
Your new neighbor's deed should also be on file. Its possible that
the description of the boundary in their deed is referenced to
something more recently established than the reference in your deed.
Good luck
Steve
|
186.555 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Aug 10 1988 17:15 | 12 |
| Just to make your day more depressing...!
It's not very likely, but you may have a situation like "The Gore"
at the western border of Mass. and NY. In the early days when that
line was first surveyed, the surveyors determining the border for
Mass. drew one line; the surveyors for NY drew another line. In
between was a very thin wedge of land, about 5 (?) miles wide at
its end, not claimed by either state. All kinds of nefarious
characters went to live there, because it wasn't under any government
juristiction...at all.
Except, in your case, it sounds as though the surveys for your
neighbor and for you overlap instead of diverge. Not very likely
though.
|
186.556 | squatters rights | SVCRUS::KROLL | | Thu Aug 11 1988 02:10 | 2 |
| do you also have squatters rights. If you have been using the land
for x number of years it now becomes yours?
|
186.557 | Get a plot plan done (couple hundred $$) | VAXWRK::BSMITH | Carnival Personnel Only...DAMN! | Fri Aug 12 1988 12:31 | 22 |
| RE:.5 >
> I guess it is time to have a good survey done, but it makes us angry
> that we have to put out the money because the jerk next door won't
> do it and he is causing all the trouble in the first place.
Chances are, he had a plot plan done by a surveyor when he bought the
house (you said he was 'new' in .0), so he has already paid for it.
I wouldn't call him a jerk, yet, he may not be too happy about owning
your backyard either. As far as squatters rights go, you probably have
earned the right to use the land, but never to own it. Ask to see his
proof, and if he shows you a certified plot plan, hire your own
surveyor to verify his evidence. If worst case, and it's true, try
to get him to sell you the land, keep things amicable because right now, from
your perspective, he has all the aces. I had a similar problem because
my builder set our house too close to the lot line, and managed to put
my septic system in my neighbor's yard. We got nowhere with the builder
until I let it be known that I didn't give a damn, he could just move the
house.
Keep us posted,
Brad.
|
186.558 | Re:.12 | BPOV06::TORTORELLI | | Mon Aug 15 1988 13:31 | 41 |
| I don't think he has a plot plan because he paid cash for the house
and the land. A couple of weeks ago metal stakes appeared on the
land, but I seriously doubt they were put there by a surveyor because
one is about a foot out of the ground and painted white and the
other is at the back of the lot about four feet out of the ground
and not painted any color and those are the only two stakes. From
all the information I have been told, surveyors use orange paint
and mark all four boundries or they use cement markers at the
boundries.
As far as still being friendly - we are not. We went on a 16 day
vacation and when we came home he had hired a bulldozer and cleared
his land filling in quite close to our house with a six foot high
banking (also burying anything we had in the way (a wheelbarrel
for one thing and also our kids sand box area).
Then the bulldozerover the banking he had all the debrie (sp?)
such as several huge tree trunks, asphalt, roofing shingles, and
a rock about six feet round. When we looked out any
of the windows all we saw was this terrible mess.
As you can imagine we were not very happy. We called the Board
of Health and he told him to clean it up as alot of it was what
they classified as hazardous material. Well he didn't, he just
got another bulldozer and scrapped more dirt over the banking making
it bigger and closer to our house and buried everything. The board
of health came back and were quite upset with what he had done,
and told him as the debrie came up he would have to have to trucked
away.
That ended any kind of amiciable relations we had!!!
Now he throws grass clippings, rocks, tree limbs, etc down the banking
and yells "It's my land". Nice guy, huh? Said to us if we didn't
like it to build a fence, then went into a back yard with a regular
metal tape measure and measured past my clothes line and said he
owned all of it. So now I don't even want to ask him if he has
a certified survey, because I do not want to have to talk to him.
Part of what he is claiming is a dirt driveway we have always used
(21+ years).
|
186.559 | | CHART::CBUSKY | | Mon Aug 15 1988 14:24 | 8 |
| YOU NEED A LAYWER AND YOUR OWN SURVEY FAST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And yes, I was shouting! Get a survey done and if it turns out the
he has been filling in your lot then get him to restore it to what
it was, this is where you will need the laywer because from the
sounds of it, the guy can't be reasoned with!
Charly
|
186.560 | And I thought some of my neighbors were beauts... | VAXWRK::BSMITH | Carnival Personnel Only...DAMN! | Mon Aug 15 1988 14:32 | 15 |
| Well the only thing I can suggest is get the property surveyed,
and then find a good lawyer. Don't do what we did, we were in a panic,
rushed around to find a lawyer, finally settling on a woman attorney who
had a 'reputation' for being a good litigator. What we should have done
is interviewed several attorneys before making our choice. This quick
decision has been regreted ever since, she did not protect our best interest,
was a terrible negotiator with the builder, (we ended up doing the
bargaining), and basically screwed us is the only way to put it. Getting
the lawyer is your most important step because he/she is the one you'll
depend on for a long time, think about us while you search for one.
Finally, if the plot plan shows this creton is wrong, go directly
to court and have a les pendens or lein put on his property and sue.
Brad.
|
186.561 | Check with lawyer, surveyor, insurance co, start diary | TOKLAS::FELDMAN | PDS, our next success | Mon Aug 15 1988 15:20 | 45 |
| Reply .15 makes a good point. It isn't enough to have a lawyer;
you must have a good lawyer. Shop around, get recommendations,
interview a few, ask pointed questions, and then pick one.
But I dont' agree with the notion that this can wait. Certainly
don't put off looking for a lawyer until after the survey is done.
Surveys can be expensive, and the lawyer may tell you they're not
necessary. Still, you can shop around for a surveyor while you
shop around for a lawyer.
Ask the lawyers what direct actions you can take or the lawyer can
take on your behalf. Also ask whether or not to deal directly with
municipal agencies -- building inspector (in case your neighbor is
doing construction without proper permits), Board of Health (as you've
already done), police (for tresspassing or dumping charges), etc. I'm
not suggesting you actually contact them, just that you discuss
all options with the lawyers. Finally, ask the lawyers whether
your insurance company should be involved.
Which brings me to the subject of insurance. You may be insured
against some of your neighbors actions, if they come under the heading
of vandalism or theft. In order to collect from your insurance
company, you are required to notify them within a reasonable amount
of time (typically within a few days). So take out your insurance
policy, read it carefully, and contact your company. The difficulty
in this case may be that your homeowner's insurance won't protect
you against the claim your neighbor is making against what you believe
to be your land. Your lawyer and the insurance company's lawyer
will have to coordinate efforts. I don't know whether the insurance
company's lawyer can also work for you, so check out that option
too. And, as people have suggested both here and in the REAL_ESTATE
notes file, find out as soon as possible whether or not you or your
bank have title insurance. Again, you will lose the protection
of whatever title insurance exists if you don't notify them on a
timely basis.
Finally, just so you don't feel entirely helpless in the short term,
buy a notebook on the way home today. Use it to start a diary.
Write down everything that happens that could possibly affect this
situation, including dates and times. Include things like your
calls to the Board of Health, their visits and orders, each act
of dumping and tresspass committed by your neighbor, etc. This
log will be vital for you to collect damages.
Gary
|
186.562 | Enough talk, time for some action ! | REGENT::BENDEL | | Mon Aug 15 1988 16:35 | 19 |
| I agree with .15, don't wait to get a lawyer, get one now. Your
neighbor seems to be pushing the issue of the land being his, and
making drastic "improvements" to "his" land.
However, if the land is yours, you should not file a claim
against your homeowners policy, but instead should sue the neighbor
because he is liable for the damages he incurred, not your insurance
company. You want the responsibility for any damages to fall in
the right place.
Why don't you stop screwing around and get some proper legal
help, that's the only way you're going to solve your problem,
not in this notes file. You've gotten plenty of good tips, now
it's time to move.
SB
good luck
|
186.563 | | CHART::CBUSKY | | Mon Aug 15 1988 17:15 | 10 |
| As .15 AND .14 said :-) Get a Lawyer and possibly a surveyer FAST!
But in regard to contacting city agencies, I would suggest that you do
it, building department, health dept., DEQE if appropriate and
especially the POLICE. Next time any activity occurs on your "property"
(buldozers, dumping ,etc.) call the POLICE. Let your neighbor know
that you mean business. The city might even be able to force him
to stop everything until this is resolved.
Charly
|
186.564 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Aug 15 1988 17:47 | 19 |
| A good lawyer, yes. One that is good for this kind of case. You
need one. One that's not afraid of a fight, I'd say. Some lawyers
seem to spend a lot of your money being "agreeable" and "mediating",
and while that's fine and necessary, it sounds to me that in this
case you need a lawyer who's also willing to perhaps get a court order
to stop this guy from doing anything more until the land ownership
is resolved. (I think it might be called a writ of jurisprudence,
but I'm not sure).
Notebook idea...EXCELLENT!!! Write down EVERYTHING, with dates
and times.
The lawyer may be able to recommend a good surveyor. You'll need
the surveyor pretty early on here, because he's the one that will
show clearly if you have a case or not. I hope you do, but also
be prepared for the possibility that this guy just might be right
about the boundary.
Hang in there!!! I'm glad I don't have your neighbor....
|
186.565 | Get a CAMERA! | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Mon Aug 15 1988 18:20 | 8 |
|
Along with the notebook, you might want to get a polaroid instant
camera, so you can get photos and write the dates and times, and
what they are doing, etc. A picture is worth a thousand notes you
know.
-tm
|
186.566 | May own Right_of_Way! | PENUTS::HOGLUND | | Tue Aug 16 1988 18:48 | 3 |
| If you have used a dirt drivway for 21 yrs, you may have a legal
right-of-way or even own the dirt driveway. See a lawyer.
|
186.567 | Seek allies | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Thu Aug 18 1988 04:05 | 18 |
| re .21: Yep. From what my lawyer told me on a different subject,
"adverse posession" takes effect when you openly and notoriously use the
land for a long time, I guess 21 years. So it seems very likely that you
have a driveway easement, plus the right to use the land as your backyard,
put in a sandbox, clothesline, whatever. But ask your own lawyer.
I disagree that you should wait to talk to your lawyer before doing
other things. Call the building inspector and explain the situation.
If the guy doesn't have a permit, he's in big trouble. Even if he does
have a permit, the building inspector may be able to do something, so tell
your story and see what happens. Same with the police. He's destroyed
your private property by burying it, ask the police what your options are.
You've only got so much energy and so much money to use to fight this guy -
get as many other people hassling him as possible if you want to win.
Luck,
Larry
|
186.568 | Keep a Diary | EPOCH::JOHNSON | Whoever dies with the most toys, wins. | Thu Aug 18 1988 13:30 | 6 |
| Based on what turned out to be a happy and profitable experience,
I'd say...
Buy a spiral notebook and write down everything you can remember
with as much detail as you can remember (i.e., dates and times)
and keep this diary religiously.
|
186.569 | Good luck, you're gonna need it | ULTRA::PRIBORSKY | All things considered, I'd rather be rafting. | Thu Aug 18 1988 15:26 | 29 |
| Set mode/flame/intensity=high
This attitude of "get a lawyer, sue the guy and let the courts settle
it" really rubs me. Really, folks, the courts have better things
to do, like keeping convicted child-molesters of the streets.
Set mode/flame/intensity=simmer
Now, do approach this reasonably and in the proper sequence. If you
have a disagreement about the survey, hire your own surveror FIRST. If
it turns out he has encroached, then get a lawyer. If it turns out
you've been using his land for 21 years, then you should also get an
attorney. If he recently purchased HIS land, then be prepared to lose
(or at least a long and drawn out battle). Such an encroachment may
not be binding on him since it probably wasn't noted on HIS title or
survey.
One of your title insurance companies will probably be responsible for
coverage, and you should get them involved *before* filing suit, since
they will probably want their own counsel involved. The attorney
should have this under control. I *sure* hope you have title
insurance. When I bought my house in Mass., I had to ask for it. It
isn't "automatic" here, whereas it was in Colorado and Arizona.
Getting a "good litigator" is the wrong thing to do. Look for
one with a good track record of out-of-court or mediated settlements
in which his/her client won. Let the courts handle more important
things.
|
186.570 | | TOKLAS::FELDMAN | PDS, our next success | Thu Aug 18 1988 18:43 | 23 |
| Re: .24
> Now, do approach this reasonably and in the proper sequence. If you
> have a disagreement about the survey, hire your own surveror FIRST. If
> it turns out he has encroached, then get a lawyer. If it turns out
> you've been using his land for 21 years, then you should also get an
> attorney. ...
I don't understand. These are the only two options, and in both cases
you suggest getting a lawyer. Why spend money on the surveyor (several
hundred dollars, minimum) without first spending a half-hour with
lawyer (typically free, at most $100 for an hour's consult), and
getting the lawyers opinion? The lawyer may say that the surveyor
isn't necessary.
Gary
PS Once someone has been convicted of a felony, it's the job of the
prison system and not the courts to keep that person off the streets.
There aren't that many child-molesters waiting for the court system, in
spite of recent publicity; it's small-time hoodlums who clog the
criminal justice system. Besides, this is a civil case, and has
little to do with the criminal courts.
|
186.571 | Lawyer First/Survey Second | CURIE::BBARRY | | Thu Aug 18 1988 19:44 | 30 |
|
< This attitude of "get a lawyer, sue the guy and let the courts settle
< it" really rubs me.
Getting a lawyer and sueing someone are two different things. A
good lawyers involvement in a timely manner can prevent a suit. 90%
of a lawyers job is protecting your rights. Most suits are settled
out of court, but filing a suit helps protect your rights and forces
the parties to negotiate in a reasonable manner. Most of the rest of
your statements I agree with.
Get a good lawyer before you hire the surveyor and have your lawyer
either hire or recommend the surveyor. If your lawyer does not know a
surveyor, you are talking to the wrong lawyer. The lawyer must have
confidence in the survey because it will be a major piece of evidence.
When you visit your lawyer bring all the paper work from the closing
on the house, the registered deed, and any building permits or surveys
used for remodelling.
If you have the equipment, set up a video tape and camera to watch your
back corner during the day.
Your lawyer should notify the following of possible legal action:
Title Insurance Company, Board of Health, Conservation Commission,
Building Inspector, Police Department if a restraining order is issued.
Do not notify the mortgage company unless required by contract or
a lein is placed on your property.
Brian
|
186.572 | So .0, what's going on anyway?? | VAXWRK::BSMITH | Carnival Personnel Only...DAMN! | Fri Aug 19 1988 11:52 | 22 |
| > This attitude of "get a lawyer, sue the guy and let the courts settle
> it" really rubs me. Really, folks, the courts have better things
> to do, like keeping convicted child-molesters of the streets.
Unfortunately, this approach reflects reality in our society today. Also,
court is sometimes the only way to get an attitude adjustment, and I think
a new neighbor that gets a bulldozer and rearranges your yard needs one.
> Getting a "good litigator" is the wrong thing to do. Look for
> one with a good track record of out-of-court or mediated settlements
> in which his/her client won. Let the courts handle more important
> things.
Speaking from my experience, once the 'other side' knew we had hired a
'good litagator', they suddenly became very interested in negotiating
a settlement. If your lawyer sucks in court, and the opposing parties
know it, why should it interest them to talk to you at all, they have
nothing to fear?? And if that happens, now you have wasted your money
on one shark, and have to go start over with another one, this time a
'good litigator'.
Brad.
|
186.573 | | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Tue Aug 23 1988 18:47 | 34 |
| one more re .24:
This attitude of "get a lawyer, sue the guy and let the courts settle
it" really rubs me.
Absolutely. Suing should be considered the absolute last resort.
There's lots of other stuff to do first, and if that stuff fails,
then decide whether you want to sue or drop it. I'm certain that
filing a lawsuit will be a really painful and frustrating experience,
unless you enjoy fights, and even then it would be very time consuming.
But when somebody attacks your yard with a bulldozer, it's best to
consider all the possibilities.
If he recently purchased HIS land, then be prepared to lose
(or at least a long and drawn out battle). Such an encroachment may
not be binding on him since it probably wasn't noted on HIS title or
survey.
I am positive that this advice is *wrong*. Reason: within a year of
buying my house, an unrecorded sewer pipe was found under my property,
and in all the subsequent legal discussions about easements and adverse
possession, the fact that I had bought a year before was never raised
as relevant. Besides, most deeds in Mass. are "quitclaim" deeds, meaning
that the person selling to you sells you whatever claim they *may* have to
the land. I could sell you property I don't own under a quitclaim deed
and you would have nothing, except the right to sue me for fraud if I
knew that I didn't own it. That's why you need title insurance.
Anyway, as .24 says, talk to your title insurance company asap. Also,
the lawyer who can win for you out of court is better than the one who
takes you to court. That's what you want - to win out of court.
Enjoy,
Larry
|
186.386 | | CHEFS::YEOMANSD | We also serve... | Thu Aug 25 1988 14:47 | 7 |
| I've got the same problem.
Can anyone tell me the best way to remove it (rather than prevent
it)?
Dave.
|
186.387 | | STAR::BECK | Paul Beck | DECnet-VAX | Thu Aug 25 1988 21:24 | 1 |
| Get out your lawnmower. Set the blades REAL low...
|
186.388 | | CHEFS::YEOMANSD | We also serve... | Fri Aug 26 1988 14:51 | 6 |
| Paul,
Cheers.
Dave.
|
186.389 | | STAR::SWIST | Jim Swist ZKO3-4/U14 381-1264 | Mon Aug 29 1988 18:43 | 2 |
| Rotate the house so the affected roof section is facing South.
|
186.390 | | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Aug 29 1988 18:54 | 10 |
| > Rotate the house so the affected roof section is facing South.
But that's only a short-term solution, since the turning the house in that way
will just turn another side of the roof to the north, eventually causing a moss
problem there.
What you really need to install is a whole-house turntable.
Paul
|
186.391 | Don't know if they have them across the pond, though. | LYCEUM::CURTIS | Dick "Aristotle" Curtis | Mon Aug 29 1988 19:46 | 9 |
186.392 | | BINKLY::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Mon Aug 29 1988 20:03 | 3 |
186.393 | Here we go again. | RLAV::BAKALETZ | Mike Bakaletz NJCD-SWS 323.4079 | Tue Aug 30 1988 13:46 | 4 |
| Oh No! Not the air-shredder again. My sides still hurt from the
laughing.
MB
|
186.394 | Maybe leave it be? | ASD::DIGRAZIA | | Tue Aug 30 1988 16:42 | 27 |
|
I'm not too keen on these whole-house turntables. You better
get an expert to figure it out before installing one.
My friend Harley had one, but he forgot about the 8-guage
electic wire running under the lawn over to his 2-car garage.
When he tried out the turntable, it worked fine, until it made
one full revolution. Then the garage couldn't hold against the
tension built up in the wire wrapped around the house, and it
popped off its concrete blocks, skidded across the lawn, and
smacked into the family room, where Harley's mother-in-law was
watching TV. "Coulda been worse." said Harley. "Coulda been
my damn Jeep in that garage."
On the subject: if the moss isn't bothering anyone, can you leave
it alone? Is it digesting the roof? Maybe the occasional roof
excursion to tear off moss chunks and chuck them off the roof
will be sufficient. Otherwise, spray it with hideously toxic
weed-control poison you can buy in any garden-supply store.
Does sunlight ever strike it? Maybe you can paint it black, and
absorbed sunlight will overheat it.
I used to have a slate roof, and lichens grew on it. They were
cute.
Regards, Robert.
|
186.395 | | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Aug 30 1988 17:59 | 30 |
| > When he tried out the turntable, it worked fine, until it made
> one full revolution. Then the garage couldn't hold against the
> tension built up in the wire wrapped around the house, and it
> popped off its concrete blocks, skidded across the lawn, and
> smacked into the family room, where Harley's mother-in-law was
> watching TV. "Coulda been worse." said Harley. "Coulda been
> my damn Jeep in that garage."
Well, he just had an incorrectly installed turntable. What he should really do
now is sue the installer for several million dollars. If he installed it
himself, then he can probably sue the supplier for gross incompetence in
selling the turntable to such an obvious cretin as himself.
The thing that makes the turntables so expensive is the cost in making all the
utilities deal with the revolving house. For example, for the electric service
that you mentioned, you need a large ring contact installed around the pivot
on the foundation, and a sliding contact on the house that rides on the ring as
the house rotates. I don't even want to talk about the plumbing. And don't
forget the heavy duty casters on the front steps, or you'll dig up all your
landscaping.
The better turntables have some nice options, such as a beeper on the front
door that is activated by a little transmitter on your key chain, so those of
you who sometimes come home drunk can find the door.
Do goats eat moss? Maybe you could tie one on your roof.
Paul
|
186.396 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Tue Aug 30 1988 18:23 | 22 |
|
RE: plumbing
Don't let this discourage you from buying a turntable. All
you have to do is make sure the incoming pipe from the ground
is at the houses' center of curvature. Next, get a correspond-
ing bigger pipe with installed o-rings and insert it over the
main supply. Be sure to lubricate the o-rings so they don't
get pinched as the house revolves, and then the o-rings will
create a water tight seal while revolving around a single point.
If your funds are low, you can "jury-rig" one of these units
from one of those fancy hose hangers. They use a similar type
design. The only problem you can run into is if you elect to
purchase the more expensive turntable which pivots on two points
thereby causing the house to pivot in an ellipse. The ellipse
is preferable to the circle since you not only benefit from
the circular motion which gives sun on all sides of the house,
but you also have the added benefit of a motion similar to the
earths orbit which creates the illusion of longer days. More
sun; less moss.
|
186.397 | | TOKLAS::FELDMAN | PDS, our next success | Tue Aug 30 1988 19:33 | 14 |
| All this stuff about buying a turntable really seems extravagant
when there's a dirt cheap solution.
Get a large flat rock. It should be as large as you can handle
and toss around, and as flat as possible. Toss it up on the roof.
As it slides down, it will scrape the moss off.
Just remember not to use a round rock, because it will roll. And,
as we all know, a rolling stone gathers no moss.
Gary
PS Sorry. I tried to resist. Honest I did. I held out for a day,
but just couldn't make it any further.
|
186.398 | PS does it again! | CRAIG::YANKES | | Tue Aug 30 1988 20:16 | 18 |
|
I hate to inject a moment of seriousness (sorry...), but Popular
Science did have an article (house plans) around 15 years ago on a
circular house that could rotate on a pedestal. The plumbing and
electrical wiring in the pedestal were definitely interesting things
to solve -- especially the plumbing. At least the wiring you can run
through concentric rings that maintain contact as it goes around, but
the plumbing was a different story. I think it was done with a type of
seal that could rotate and had one pipe inside the other pipe so that
both the water-in and assorted_gunk_out lines were both centered on
the pivot point.
Now, anyone want to guess at how many code items this house
would break?
One item not discussed was moss, however...
-c
|
186.399 | possible drawback (hic!) | NSSG::FEINSMITH | | Tue Aug 30 1988 20:21 | 8 |
| If I remember the article in .16 properly, the house was built for
an Italian artist who always wanted his studio to face the sun,
so the codes were not U.S. spec (and I have no idea what the codes
are like in Italy). One problem I do invision is after a party and
perhaps you've indulged too much, if the house has rotated, imagine
how you feel when the front door is not where you left it!!!
Eric
|
186.400 | :-) :-) :-) | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Tue Aug 30 1988 20:57 | 4 |
|
I hate these magazines that always publish solutions 15 years
earlier than when I think them up.
|
186.401 | | ALIEN::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Wed Aug 31 1988 12:53 | 6 |
| > One problem I do invision is after a party and
> perhaps you've indulged too much, if the house has rotated, imagine
> how you feel when the front door is not where you left it!!!
See .13 for a solution to this problem.
|
186.402 | If you don't want a rotating house... | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Aug 31 1988 14:51 | 6 |
| Another possible solution to the moss problem:
Douse it with a bleach solution; not full strength, but maybe a
cup per gallon of water. I have no idea if this would work or
not, but the idea occurred to me. After all, it kills mildew.
|
186.403 | Moss Kill | DECWET::MCWILLIAMS | How you spell Klactoveesedstene? | Wed Aug 31 1988 21:07 | 23 |
| Ken, the house turntable idea notwithstanding, I'd recommend you try what folks
out here in the moss capital of the world (Seattle, WA) do to get rid of roof
moss.
Start by renting a pressure washer to blast away even the most stubborn moss.
Then pick up any of the products (available at most home centers / hardware
stores) designed to kill moss and prevent it from returning. (Can't think of
any brand names right offhand, but Moss-Kill is one -- it's a powder you shake
around on the roof; other manufacturers make liquid versions).
I think the active ingredient in most of these products is zinc. Moss seems to
hate it. If you like Safer products, they put out a moss killer which is
bascially soap and may work just as well. BTW, the zinc stuff is hard on
Rhodies and maybe even grass, so read the label and be careful.
I wouldn't use bleach on the moss.
You can only permanently keep the moss away by removing the conditions it
likes (cool temps., ample water, and some crud to grow on). Since these
are often hard to control, you may have to regularly resort to poisoning
the moss.
-Brian
|
186.542 | How to replace Slate? | OBLIO::QUEBEC | Finish what you've started. | Thu Sep 01 1988 11:58 | 12 |
| re .1
How do you go about replacing the slates??
My brother and I have a two family house with a slate roof. In
the recent rain we have noticed the roof is leaking and if you look
at it from out side there are 2-3 slates missing and that appears
to be where the water is getting in.
Any help would be appreciated.
Rae
|
186.404 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Sep 01 1988 13:25 | 15 |
| A guy from Seattle ought to know about moss!
The bleach idea was just speculation; something specifically designed
to kill moss would certainly be a better way to go.
I assume that when you use the pressure washer, you've got to be
careful to wash from the top down (get on the roof and wash down
towards the eaves) or you'll peel up your shingles.
Another speculation: if zinc is bad news for moss, I wonder what
would happen if you got a strip of sheet zinc, say 4" or so wide,
and attached it to the ridge? Would the rain washing over it
leach out enough zinc to keep the moss at bay? (There was a very
recent note in here someplace suggesting using a copper strip like
this; this same note maybe???)
|
186.405 | | NEXUS::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Thu Sep 01 1988 13:57 | 11 |
| My ex-father in law had a problem with moss growing on his roof
and on advice of a neighbor(this was in CT we dont have that problem
here in the colorado desert) to install copper flashing on the peaks
of the roof. It had something to do with copper oxides washing down
over the shingles would make them toxic to the moss. I never did
find out if it worked or not but helped install it.
Anyone have ideas if it would work? I cant call to find out for
obvious reasons...
-j
|
186.406 | At least the moss isn't in your lawn ... | DECWET::MCWILLIAMS | How you spell Klactoveesedstene? | Thu Sep 01 1988 16:14 | 27 |
| RE. -2
> Another speculation: if zinc is bad news for moss, I wonder what
> would happen if you got a strip of sheet zinc, say 4" or so wide,
> and attached it to the ridge?
There's a product available out here just like you described. Don't know
who makes it, but it comes in a roll and is supposed to slowly release enough
zinc to keep moss away. I recall hearing someone say they don't work too
well; perhaps the amount of zinc isn't sufficient, or it doesn't disperse
well enough ...
In any case, the author of .0 seems to have a flat roof, so such a product
probably wouldn't work.
RE. pressure washing a roof:
Yes, you have to be careful. Some of these things are quite powerful. (On
cedar shake roofs you need to be careful not to erode the edge of the shake.)
Besides the precaution about working from the ridge downward to prevent water
from getting under the shingles, obviously the footing up there can get
slippery and it's tougher to keep your balance when you're toting a spray wand.
Of course, you could always hire a professional pressure washing service,
if the DYIer in you was waning.
Brian
|
186.574 | Any Developments? | FDCV13::PARENT | | Fri Sep 02 1988 13:44 | 5 |
| Have there been any recent developments with this matter?
I may be faced with a possible adverse possession myself so
I'm very interested in what the outcome will be.
Hang in there!
|
186.407 | Zinc | EXIT26::MAAS | Ken Maas | Sat Sep 03 1988 02:53 | 4 |
| Thanks for all of your suggestions. The roof is flat, and I think
the best approach might be the zinc powder. I'll let you know what
happens.
|
186.408 | | BINKLY::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Sun Sep 04 1988 00:35 | 2 |
| Oh, well, now that I know that the roof is flat, its obvious why the
turntable solution is inappropriate. good luck with the powder
|
186.409 | Moss on the roof - whole house turntables 2536 | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Sep 06 1988 13:33 | 5 |
| re: .26
No, it just means that this particular house needs the "Model B"
whole house turnatble with the special tilt option available at
extra cost....
|
186.575 | Just curious | MCIS2::DUPUIS | Lauren's Mom | Wed Oct 05 1988 12:54 | 3 |
| Has this been resolved yet?
|
186.415 | How to frame a gambrel roof? | NRADM::BROUILLET | Don Brouillet, NRO5, 234-4696 | Tue Oct 18 1988 14:41 | 25 |
| I checked the keywords, and several notes on framing and sheds,
but didn't see this covered....
I'm planning to put up a storage shed, and would like to build a
gambrel roof to allow extra storage space overhead (plus, and this
is the real reason, my wife thinks it would look better).
So - how do you frame a gambrel roof? I have the basic idea, but need
help with a few points..
- what angle to use for each slope?
- how to join the rafters (I've seen splice plates made from plywood
for something similar - would that work?)
- do I need any collar ties on a gambrel roof?
- what do you do on the outside where the side slope meets the
top slope? I doubt that shingles would wrap around an angle like
that.
- and, if I try to pre-build the rafters on the ground, how do I get
the hole mess up there and held steady until I nail it together?
Suggestions?
|
186.416 | One approach... | NHL::MARCHETTI | Mama said there'd be days like this. | Tue Oct 18 1988 17:14 | 25 |
| I recently had a gambrel roof added to my house and here's what
what was done:
*
* * <-----5:12 pitch
* *
*-----------------------------*
* rafters | *
* | *
* | * <--About 8:3 pitch
* | *
* | *
* | *
^-knee wall
-The angles can be whatever is pleasing to you
-The steep pitch rafters,ceiling joists, and 5:12 rafters were just
spiked together (forms a truss like configuration)
-Collar ties were required by the code
-The knee angle was simply shingled over. The shingles will bend
as long as it's not too cold
Bob
|
186.417 | More open space? | NRADM::BROUILLET | Don Brouillet, NRO5, 234-4696 | Wed Oct 19 1988 14:29 | 24 |
| Thanks for the input. I'd like to modify it a little if I can get away
with it. I want to keep the "attic" space as open as possible. Would
this (below) work? Keep in mind, this is only a storage shed, so it
doesn't have to meet any codes. It DOES have to remain standing for
several years, however.
How about this design:
Modifying .1's drawing...
_____ 2X6 ridge board (16' long)
*/
splice * | *
plate --__ * * ___ splice plate
\ * * /
* *
* * ___ 2X4 rafters
* */
* *
* *
* ----------------------------------------- *
2X6 ceiling joists
|<---------------- 12'------------------->|
|
186.418 | Add colar ties | BAGELS::RIOPELLE | | Wed Oct 19 1988 15:47 | 21 |
| I'm also in the process of building a shed. Though I won't be building
a Gambrel style roof, won't match my house lines. I do have a book of
designs that has a gambrel roof in it, which if I may make some changes
to your layout is as follows :
| <----- 1 x 8 Ridge board
splice *----------* <-----------1 x 6 collar tie
plate --__ * *
\ * *
* *<--- 2 x 6 Purlin
* *
* *<-----2 x 6 rafters
* * (why 2 x 4 ??)
* *
* ----------------------------------------- *
2X6 ceiling joists
|<---------------- 12'------------------->|
|
186.419 | OK, how far down? | NRADM::BROUILLET | Don Brouillet, NRO5, 234-4696 | Wed Oct 19 1988 17:42 | 15 |
| OK, I can throw in collar ties without taking away too much space.
Does your book give any dimensions, i.e., how far below the peak
should the collar tie go? (BTW, where did you get the book? I
couldn't find anything on sheds in the normal series of home projects
books)
RE your note, "why 2X4's?", the answer is simple: they're cheaper
than 2X6's. I also don't see the need for a 2X6 for that span -
all the premade $1000+ sheds I looked at use 2X4 rafters.
Purlin. Thanks, I knew they weren't called rafters, but couldn't
think of the word. I'll have to work that into my everyday vocabulary.
-db
|
186.420 | | BAGELS::RIOPELLE | | Wed Oct 19 1988 18:44 | 10 |
| The collar would cross from side to side on the first bend in
the roof. Strangly enough I picked this book up in building 19.
Its called outdoor storage by ortho books and I've seen the same
and many books in books stores, and lumber supply yards, also
plans and other books on the same topic. A purlin is the joint
formed in the roof line, where you said you would use a splice plate.
Good luck ! let us know how it turns out.
|
186.576 | Don't leave us hanging! | LEDDEV::HASTINGS | | Wed Nov 02 1988 20:16 | 2 |
| I'm waiting to hear too! What happened?????
|
186.350 | How much flashing to expose? | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis the Menace | Wed Nov 23 1988 12:11 | 23 |
|
I'm reshingling a 1st floor roof, having stripped off the old shingles
and replaced the roof decking with new boards. My question concerns
the 4" X 6" pieces of aluminum flashing that get bent at a right angle
and inserted at the end of each row of shingles where the roof forms an
angle with the wall of the 2nd floor. The previous job had a gap
of almost 1 1/2 " of exposed flashing between the shingle and the
clapboard. My thought was that I would replace these clapboards
in the Spring, and would then make a tighter fit with less flashing
exposed. I got to wondering though, if there wasn't a method to
this, in that if I bring the clapboards too close to the roof there's
more likelyhood of rot from leaves, ice and gunk getting caught
in the angle.
___________/\/
clapboards __________/\/
_________/\/ roof
________/\/
_______/\/
^
exposed flashing _/
|
186.351 | Try copper? | PAMOLA::RECKARD | Jon Reckard, 381-0878, ZKO3-2/T63 | Wed Nov 23 1988 12:22 | 9 |
| > ... if I bring the clapboards too close to the roof there's
> more likelyhood of rot from leaves, ice and gunk getting caught
> in the angle.
I'm inclined to agree with this.
An alternative to aluminum flashing is copper flashing. It all depends
on personal taste and style of house, etc. but I think copper has more class.
Has more impact on your wallet too.
|
186.352 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Nov 23 1988 13:18 | 12 |
| I'd leave some flashing exposed - an inch or so - for the reasons
you gave. Having the clapboards up a little way makes it easier
to deal with the flashing when re-roofing, too.
Incidently, when you put on the new clapboards, be sure you don't
nail through the flashing - you want to be able to (maybe) pull it
out and replace it when the time comes to reshingle the roof, and
if the old stuff is nailed in, or if nails are down near the edge
of the clapboards, you can't do it very easily. You can put a nail
through the flashing to hold it in place when you nail down the
shingles, and that's plenty.
|
186.577 | What I learned about adverse possession | ERLANG::BLACK | | Sun Dec 04 1988 01:32 | 35 |
| It appears that the initiators of this note have been burrid by
the bulldozer ...
Seriously, there are a lot of flames in here, so I thought I'ld
add some facts. As the defendent ina adverse possesion suit that
lased about two years, I'm pretty sure of them.
(1) If you have lived in your house and garden for 21 years without
that possession being challenged, YOU OWN THE LAND BY ADVERSE
POSSESION. Period. It doen't matter if your dead was drawn up wrong
in the first place ... if no-one objects for ten years, it's yours.
Well, I guess that there are a couple of caveats. One is that you
can't get land from a public authority (Town, City, etc) by adverse
possession. And seccond, if you have been living there by
"permission", you don't have adverse possession. In other words,
if you were a tenant, or if your driveway, say, was an easement
over someone else's land.
Second, title insurance probably won't help you a jot. The standard
policuies explicitly exclude boundary disputes.
Third, since your "neighbour" is obviously challenging your ownership
rights, you will have to get your deeds updated to show your possesion.
This means going to court, or getting a mutual agreement with the
neighbour (sounds unlikely)!
In fact, it sounds like the nighbour is trying to establish his
own adverse possesion case. When he shouts "It's my land", he's
doing just that. It will take him ten years, though!
Andrew
|
186.543 | Source of info | NAC::GODDARD | | Thu Dec 15 1988 13:32 | 13 |
| For anyone interested in slate roofs - the following book covers
all aspects of slate roofs from planning to repair:
Title: Slate Roofs
Author: National Slate Association
Reprint available from: Vermont Structural Slate Co.
Fair Haven, VT 05743
Cost: $11.95
This is quite a good book covering all aspects of slate roofs in
detail. I also found Vermont Structural Slate to be quite prompt...
a real pleasure to deal with.
|
186.421 | How to measure the pitch of a roof | ERLANG::BLACK | | Mon Jan 02 1989 17:35 | 9 |
| How is the pitch of a roof measured in the building trade?
My roof is a 3-4-5 triangle, that is, for each 4 feet horizontally,
the rise is 3 feet. My trusty tangent tables say that teh angle
is therefor ~37 degrees.
But "the trade" taks about "10 pitch" and "12 pitch" roofs. What
does this mean?
|
186.422 | | MTWAIN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Jan 02 1989 20:52 | 3 |
| A "10-pitch" roof has 10" of rise for each foot of run; a "12-pitch"
roof is 45 degrees.
So, you have a 9-pitch roof.
|
186.423 | Is it like Slow Pitch? | PAMOLA::RECKARD | Jon Reckard, 381-0878, ZKO3-2/T63 | Tue Jan 03 1989 14:04 | 5 |
| Additional clarification: I've heard the term "ten pitch" used interchangeably
with "ten twelve pitch" corresponding, I guess, to "rise run" or "y x". So
the people using the terms you (.0) heard dropped the "twelve" which is
perfectly acceptable, according to _The Definitive Grammar of Construction,
the Tool you Woodn't Want to Be Without_, by Bob and Ray (uhhh, Norm).
|
186.578 | C'mon - what happened? | EPOCH::JOHNSON | Someday all the dots will be connected. | Mon Mar 06 1989 18:05 | 0 |
186.439 | roof -pebbles over tar repair? | WFOOFF::DAMON | | Thu Apr 13 1989 20:23 | 20 |
| here is my problem. i have a roof about 20+ years old. it seems
to be small stones over some kind of tar/roll roofing. (i am really
a novice so bear with my description) needless to say the roof
is leaking. it is a flat or very low pitch, so where it is leaking
from seems to be a low point that the water just collects in.
what seems to be a common solution,certainly in the long term is
to put up a pitched roof, probably right over the current one.
but as luck would have it i am planning to put a second story on
this house somewhere in the next two years (currently saving up
the $) so a new pitched roof that is a long term solution seems kind of
wasteful, as would tearing up the current one and replacing it.
any ideas on an inexpensive, 2 year solution that could be handled
by a real inexperienced dyi??? buy the way the leak is somewhat
localized ( about 100 sq feet) so i'm not sure the whole roof needs
to be covered. what lloks to be the issue with a partial is how
to provide a water tight seAm between the pebbles on the part i
don't cover and the part i do. i am really just mubbling here so
i'll just leave with a big HELP!!
|
186.440 | Can be coated | WORDS::DUKE | | Fri Apr 14 1989 11:30 | 23 |
| < Note 3163.0 by WFOOFF::DAMON >
-< roof -pebbles over tar repair? >-
Since this is a house not a commercial building, I expect you
have a double coverage rolled roof. Basicly the same
material as three tab shingles but in rolls and sealed
together with asphalt. There is a coating material for this
type of roof. If is mopped on with a brush. A liberal
application should get you the couple of years you need.
I would try to locate the leak or leaks prior to coating. If
they are tiny, they can be filled with roof cement before you
coat. If there is a 'suspicious' looking area I would either
cover it with a piece of rolled roofing or cut out the bad
area and patch with rolled roofing. In either case seal well
with roof cement then coat the entire roof.
Your shoes will be pretty black when you are done, but other
than that it isn't a bad job. Of course, like all roof work,
it is hot up there. The coatings and cement work much nicer
in the heat, just tough on the people.
Pete Duke
|
186.441 | 1096, 1444, 1588 | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Fri Apr 14 1989 11:56 | 18 |
| This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.
To the author: This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title. Please look at these notes; you may find that your
question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question would
be an appropriate continuation of the discussion. Note that since nearly
everyone uses NEXT UNSEEN to read notes, your question will get the same
exposure whether it is a response to a two-year-old note or it is its own new
note. These topics were found using the keyword directory (note 1111), and you
may find other notes relating to this subject by examining the directory
yourself.
We do, however, welcome new notes if they explore a specific aspect of a
problem that may be under general discussion. And this moderator has been
known to make mistakes. :^) So if after examining these notes, you wish to
continue the discussion here, send me mail.
Paul [Moderator]
|
186.169 | roof-pebbles over tar repair? | WFOV11::DAMON | | Thu Apr 20 1989 17:02 | 27 |
| <<< JOET::DUA1:[000000.NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
-< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 3163.0 roof -pebbles over tar repair? 2 replies
WFOOFF::DAMON 20 lines 13-APR-1989 16:23
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is my problem. i have a roof about 20+ years old. it seems
to be small stones over some kind of tar/roll roofing. (i am really
a novice so bear with my description) needless to say the roof
is leaking. it is a flat or very low pitch, so where it is leaking
from seems to be a low point that the water just collects in.
what seems to be a common solution,certainly in the long term is
to put up a pitched roof, probably right over the current one.
but as luck would have it i am planning to put a second story on
this house somewhere in the next two years (currently saving up
the $) so a new pitched roof that is a long term solution seems kind of
wasteful, as would tearing up the current one and replacing it.
any ideas on an inexpensive, 2 year solution that could be handled
by a real inexperienced dyi??? buy the way the leak is somewhat
localized ( about 100 sq feet) so i'm not sure the whole roof needs
to be covered. what lloks to be the issue with a partial is how
to provide a water tight seAm between the pebbles on the part i
don't cover and the part i do. i am really just mubbling here so
i'll just leave with a big HELP!!
|
186.170 | | CURIE::KAISER | | Fri Apr 21 1989 12:14 | 18 |
|
1. Sweep the gravel away--leaving only gravel firmly attached to the
roof by the tar.
2. Wash down area to remove dust/dirt which will reduce adhesion
of new roofing cement.
3. Apply roofing cement very liberally to area.
4. Add new gravel/reapply some of the gravel you swept to the side.
Tar/gravel roofs are very common in California--I did this to a
house there, hoping to extend the life of the roof by 2-3 years;
it ended up lasting more than 10 additional years.
It is very simple; but best done on a hot day, so it is not a great
deal of fun.
|
186.171 | how do they work? | ATEAM::COVIELLO | | Fri Apr 21 1989 16:28 | 8 |
| can somebody tell me how a flat roof works? the reason I'm asking is
I have a friend that would like to insulate his 3rd floor apartment
ceiling, but is unsure if it would affect the snow melting in the winter
in boston. any thoughts out there
thanks paul
|
186.172 | how do they work II? | ATEAM::COVIELLO | | Mon May 01 1989 19:58 | 6 |
| is there any body out here to give as much as a hint as to what
to do? we are planning on ripping out all plaster within a week
or so, would appreciate any suggestions
thanks
paul
|
186.173 | They work pretty good | CLOSET::T_PARMENTER | red beans and ricely yours | Tue May 02 1989 16:21 | 20 |
| ! <<< Note 1096.8 by ATEAM::COVIELLO >>>
! -< how do they work? >-
!
! can somebody tell me how a flat roof works? the reason I'm asking is
! I have a friend that would like to insulate his 3rd floor apartment
! ceiling, but is unsure if it would affect the snow melting in the winter
! in boston. any thoughts out there
Well, it's kinda hard to see what you're getting at. Flat roofs work by not
being flat; they have to have a little slope or water pools up on them. If
you insulate the ceiling under a flat roof, the snow will be less likely to
melt and the room underneath will be definitely warmer. I doubt that the
extra weight of snow will cause any problem. If it does, the roof needs
repairing or rebuilding.
While you're up under the ceiling, you might search for leaks by spraying
the roof from othe outside to search for leaks. Flat roof leaks are
relatively easy to fix by using gobs of roof cement to restore the
impermeable membrane that is the fundamental principal of the flat (or any
other) roof.
|
186.174 | my theory | ATEAM::COVIELLO | | Tue May 02 1989 18:10 | 11 |
| now I know insulating will keep that apt warmer but why would it
slow down the melting of snow? when you have the roof re-tared
they usually put down insulation board before pouring new tar
I always thought it worked on the principle that since roof was
black it would attract the sun, much the same way as a street/sidewalks
would during the winter. I just want to make sure we don't end up
with an overloaded roof.
thanks
paul
|
186.175 | | CLOSET::T_PARMENTER | red beans and ricely yours | Wed May 03 1989 15:58 | 6 |
| It will slow down the melting of the snow because no heat
will be escaping from the room to the out of doors.
If you can stand on the roof to work on it it will probably
hold any amount of snow you're likely to see in southern
New England.
|
186.176 | Don't throw gobs of cement at leaks! | POOL::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-02/Y05 -- dtn 381-2684 | Thu May 04 1989 14:35 | 19 |
| > <<< Note 1096.10 by CLOSET::T_PARMENTER "red beans and ricely yours" >>>
> ... Flat roof leaks are
> relatively easy to fix by using gobs of roof cement...
First let me acknowledge that I am not a roofer. But I have
directly heard several roofers complain that "using gobs of roof
cement" is *NOT* the way to fix any leaking roof. And I've heard
of (i.e. indirectly) numerous other roofers expressing the same
opinion.
The concensus of opinion is that "gobs of roof cement" won't fix
the problem for very long, but that they WILL disguise the problem
so that you will need to re-roof the entire roof because you can't
locate the problem area which might be patchable.
If you can locate the problem, patch it as is appropriate for the
type of material used on your roof. Or maybe its time to ro-roof
the whole thing?
|
186.177 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | It works!! | Fri May 19 1989 04:26 | 10 |
| I am in the process of buying a place which has a large shed with a flat roof.
Its rafters are about 20' long and are either 2x4s or 2x6s (I forget which),
and are supported in the center with posts. "Someday" I'd like to remove the
posts. Is there any way I can reinforce the existing rafters to make the span
by doubling them, or must they be 2x8s or larger? (I suspect the answer is
"No way, Jose" if they really are 2x4s) There is also a leak, so I don't
want to spend $$$ on the roof only to possibly replace the roof structure
later.
-Mike
|
186.178 | Try the library | VICKI::DODIER | | Fri May 19 1989 12:00 | 12 |
| A good carpentry book should have a table which indicates the
maximum span for a given dimension and type of lumber (i.e. spruce,
fir, yellow pine, etc.).
I'm not 100% sure but I believe that two 2x4's nailed together
gives you the strength of a 4x4 for all practical purposes. You
can most likely verify this again with a decent carpentry book.
Try looking under "Headers" for this as it is very common (and more
cost effective) to nail two 2x? together for a header than to use
one 4x?.
Ray
|
186.179 | 2x12 Rafters for 20' Span | CNTROL::STLAURENT | | Tue May 23 1989 17:28 | 9 |
| reply : 15
The only thing that will work for your 20' span are 2x12's of either
NO.1 or NO. 2 Douglas Fir or NO.1 Southern Pine.
That's for Flat or Sloped Rafters 16" o.c. with 40LB./Sq.Ft.
Live Loads Supporting Plaster or Dry Wall Ceiling.
Courtesy of "The PocketSize Carpenter's Helper".
|
186.180 | Asking on Mike's behalf | LYCEUM::CURTIS | Dick "Aristotle" Curtis | Tue May 23 1989 19:13 | 5 |
| .16:
Would your Carpenter's Helper mention anything about 4 x somethings?
Dick
|
186.181 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | What have I gotten myself into now?? | Tue May 23 1989 21:03 | 12 |
| re .16:
As .17 states, I am more interested in whether doubled 2x6s will work, opposed
to 2x12. Installing 2x12s means removing the entire roof and installing a new
one from scratch. Doubled 2x6s means just adding lumber. Even tripling them
would be cheaper and easier.
I do know doubled 2x6s won't be as stiff as 2x12, but they should be the same
strength, and since it is a roof of a shed, not the floor of my house, I don't
care about the stiffness, but do care that it will survive the weight of snow.
-Mike
|
186.182 | | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Wed May 24 1989 13:29 | 10 |
186.183 | The posts will have to stay... | RAMBLR::MORONEY | I survived... | Tue May 30 1989 14:39 | 10 |
| I asked a carpenter friend about this, and he stated pretty much the same as
an earlier note. I'd need 2x12s, 12" centered.
For anyone interested, the roof is 2x6 construction, 16" centered, and the span
from inside wall to inside wall is 19' 6". The walls are 2x4 construction,
and the roof is supported in the center by 6x8 beams, and the 6x8 beams are
supported by 6x6 posts. The roof isn't entirely flat, but the pitch is about
1" rise in 12" run. The 2x6's are "real" 2x6s, they actually measure 2"x6".
-Mike
|
186.184 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Madman | Fri Jun 23 1989 14:38 | 7 |
| When joining the ends of two rolls of asphalt roll roofing, what is the proper
method of sealing the joint? I have to repair the roof of my shed, which is in
good shape except where the ends of two pieces met, where it leaks like a
sieve. They just butted the ends together and covered the joint with tar
(which cracked)
-Mike
|
186.185 | Overlap the joint with tar - it won't EVER leak! | STAFF::CHACE | let's go fishin' | Fri Jun 23 1989 14:46 | 7 |
| The joint should be overlapped 6", tar put between the pieces where
they overlap, nailed from above, then the heads of the nails covered
by a small spot of tar each. Also the nails should be put close
together (~4" apart), and ~1" from the edge of the joint.
This type of joint will NOT leak until the roofing itself wears out.
Kenny
|
186.186 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Madman | Fri Jun 23 1989 18:24 | 7 |
| re .22:
Is there a particular type of tar that won't crack? The problems I have now
are caused by the lack of overlapping you describe and the tar getting hard
and cracking.
-Mike
|
186.187 | Apply another strip of roofing OVER the joint! | STAFF::CHACE | let's go fishin' | Fri Jun 23 1989 18:52 | 7 |
|
I doubt any of the roofing cements would hold properly in the
situation you described. What you can do is to cut a 1' wide strip
to put OVER the existing joint, with roofing cement underneath and
nails on both sides.
Kenny
|
186.188 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Madman | Fri Jun 23 1989 19:36 | 8 |
| I figured that a 1' strip over the joints was the way to go, but I was
wondering if the tar over the nailheads would crack and leak. But now that I
think of it, a small area like that wouldn't crack like the 4' strips of tar at
the joints I now have.
Thanks a lot!
-Mike
|
186.189 | You can use caulk to seal the nail holes ... | REX::MERSEREAU | | Wed Jun 28 1989 14:56 | 11 |
|
> I figured that a 1' strip over the joints was the way to go, but I was
>wondering if the tar over the nailheads would crack and leak. But now that I
>think of it, a small area like that wouldn't crack like the 4' strips of tar at
>the joints I now have.
when I roofed my garage, I used clear silicone caulk to seal all
the exposed nails. I put a little underneath the nails, then
some on top after pounding them in. That stuff will last a lot
longer than roofing cement.
|
186.579 | And the answer is?????????????????????????? | JULIET::MILLER_PA | Strike THREE! You're outta there | Wed Jun 28 1989 22:35 | 7 |
| I, too am curious as to the outcome of this issue.
Please, let ALL OF US know what the outcome of this is.
Thanks
Patrick
|
186.442 | Rubber roof stinks. Literally. | TOPDOC::PRESCOTT | | Mon Jul 31 1989 17:46 | 17 |
| I looked through the roofing notes and didn't see any reference to my
peculiar problem.
We just had a large porch re-roofed with rubber membrane material. It was
recommended by the roofer (who I trust because of the fine job he did
re-roofing the main part of the house last summer) and by a couple of other
people I talked to, so, because it was considerable less expensive than the
metal roof that I would have preferred, we went ahead with it.
Well it smells. During the day, when the sun shines on it, it gives of a
horrible burnt rubber smell both on the porch and throughout the second
floor of the house (windows of two bedrooms overlook it).
Does anyone have one of these roofs? Do they ever stop smelling? Is there
anything you can put on it?
Thanks.
|
186.197 | Doubled rafter - How far up? | FRAGIL::MCBRIDE | | Fri Aug 04 1989 18:58 | 48 |
| We are buying a house and have decided to add two or three large skylites
ganged together. The house is an existing cape/saltbox with a cathedral
ceiling but very dark on the inside hence the need for more light. I am
confident I have the skills and tools necessary to do this myself and I have
been reading up on installations. I still have a few questions regarding the
necessity to double up rafters between and on the outside of the skylights.
The windows will be as large as possible without going custom, looking at
Velux VS series or ROTO SV series. Approximately 30 x 55. The windows cannot
be closer than 3.5 inches because of the flashing requirements so I will
double all of the rafters in between windows. The roof skeleton looks like
this:
| > rafter, == > support beam, + > window frame, * > rafters in question.
* * * *
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
=========================================================================
| ||++++++++++++++||++++++++++++++||++++++++++++++|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||+ +||+ +||+ +|| | |
| ||++++++++++++++||++++++++++++++||++++++++++++++|| | |
=========================================================================
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | |
The ideal situation is to place the windows exactly between the support beams
and exaclty between the rafters so I only have to cut every other one. but I
think I will have to install headers and cripple studs etc. The big question
is do I have to run the doubled rafter all the way from the outside wall to
the peak of the roof or can I simply go from support beam to support beam as
shown? If I have to go the full length (Cringe) is there any graceful way of
doing this without ripping out the ceiling materials? I do not have an attic
with an unobstructed roof to work with. The ceiling is insulated almost all
the way up and I am afraid there is wiring in the ceiling also. Suggestions?
Help? Ideas?
Brian
|
186.410 | Mold, mildew, moss .... it's all green and ugly | FRSBEE::WEIER | | Thu Aug 24 1989 17:05 | 17 |
| To start this up again .... we have a Gambrel, and the front of
the house faces North, so the front of the roof never gets enough
sun to fully dry out. Not quite moss, but quite a lot of mold is
starting to 'grow', especially along the sides of the dormers where
most of the rain runs. The roof is quickly turning QUITE noticebly
green (it's supposed to be black), and it looks horrible.
We thought about bleach or other mildew-killers, but aren't sure
what that might do to the shingles, and/or the bushes and grass
when it runs off. Has anyone had any luck with the zinc or copper
strips??
I don't think it would need a lot of anything, as it's taken 5 summers
for it to show up.
Any help would be appreciated!!
Thanks!
Patty
|
186.411 | | CIMNET::MIKELIS | Just browsing through time... | Thu Sep 07 1989 19:23 | 9 |
| RE: -< Mold, mildew, moss .... it's all green and ugly >-
I have the same problem and i see that after reading through
28 mostly facetious replies, we still do not have a definitive answer.
I will try washing with a bleach/soap solution, first, and will post
the results here.
-jim
|
186.412 | This is not a facetious reply | BAGELS::MONDOU | | Thu Sep 07 1989 20:16 | 9 |
| I had a company called "Sparkle" wash my entire house to remove
mildew, etc, from the aluminum siding. They also washed a portion
of my roof that had a fairly heavy coat of mildew. This took place
a year ago. No mildew yet.
I don't know what type of chemical was used. They did wash all
my shrubs with water before and after. I did not lose any
shrubs or plants although a couple had some mild "browning" on the
ends. I simply pruned them and no problems.
|
186.413 | Where? | LUNER::WEIER | | Fri Sep 08 1989 01:12 | 5 |
| where is 'Sparkle' based from?? I live in Nashua.
Thanks,
Patty
|
186.414 | | CIMNET::MIKELIS | Just browsing through time... | Fri Sep 08 1989 13:29 | 6 |
| No, the bleach/soap solution did not work. My roof is a little too
steep for my comfort when i'm up there trying to scrub away. If
i do find a cleaner, i'll have to attack it from the ground with
a brush on a long pole, or something.
-jim
|
186.446 | Hornets in my roof | TUNER::GLEESON | | Mon Sep 11 1989 16:27 | 17 |
186.447 | 1346, 1753, 3151 | BEING::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Sep 11 1989 17:21 | 18 |
| This note has been temporarily write-locked pending approval of the author.
To the author: This subject is already under discussion in this file, under the
topics listed in the title. Please look at these notes; you may find that your
question is already answered, or you may find a note where your question would
be an appropriate continuation of the discussion. Note that since nearly
everyone uses NEXT UNSEEN to read notes, your question will get the same
exposure whether it is a response to a two-year-old note or it is its own new
note. These topics were found using the keyword directory (note 1111), and you
may find other notes relating to this subject by examining the directory
yourself.
We do, however, welcome new notes if they explore a specific aspect of a
problem that may be under general discussion. And this moderator has been
known to make mistakes. :^) So if after examining these notes, you wish to
continue the discussion here, send me mail.
Paul [Moderator]
|
186.448 | Problem with roofer - bagged the job after 4 months | GIAMEM::COLEMAN | | Thu Sep 21 1989 14:43 | 48 |
|
I need some advice. We have a flat roof on a portion of our house
that leaks. Back in July we requested several roofers to give us
an estimate on replacing it with a rubber roof. The contractor
we chose was MULTI-STATE ROOFING due to the fact they had experience
with flat roofs and they had the best price and a 2 year warranty
on labor. We received a signed estimate from them on July 19 and
on July 24th I called and gave them the verbal go ahead to do the
job. They agreed and said they would get back to us with a start
date. In the meantime, we decided to take out a loan to cover the
cost of the repair work and to fix some other leaks at the same
time. We called Multi-State back and asked them to come out to
give us an estimate on the cost of the additional work. They said
they would come out the next day. Two months have passed and I have
called them no less than 5 times asking when they were coming out to
give us the other estimate (we needed to know how much in total we
needed to borrow). During the last call to them they mentioned they
would be out this week to replace the flat roof. Since we had hoped they
would do the additional work at the same time they came out for
the flat roof, I finally had my husband call the owner, since I
didn't seem to be getting anywhere. The owner apologized for the
delay and said he, personally, would come out to do the estimate.
No surprise - he never showed up either! Now, two days later, my
husband called back to find out why they hadn't shown up again.
The original estimator got on the phone and said they changed their
minds, they do not want to do the job after all. They said it wasn't
worth their while (original estimate $2700 with possibly at least
another $1,000 - $2,000 in additional work). My husband was furious
and told them that I worked for Digital and would let everyone know
about their unreliability, unethical practices, etc. They said
in effect, "who cares!".
The roof is leaking so badly now the ceiling below it is caving in.
We have held our breaths all this time knowing that soon it would
be fixed.
I am frustrated - do I have any recourse against this company?
Judy
I am writing this note (my first note ever) to let everyone know
that this company is extremely
|
186.449 | | AKOV13::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Thu Sep 21 1989 16:40 | 10 |
| As much as I hate to say it, I don't believe you have any recourse
against this company. There was not a formal contract in force. They
simply decided they didn't want the job. While that is definitely bad
business, it is their right. What I would do is get another company as
soon as possible and let anyone who wants to know about this company.
I wonder, sometimes, how a company like this stays in business.
Ed..
|
186.450 | | SALEM::PAGLIARULO_G | | Thu Sep 21 1989 17:00 | 10 |
| Let me know if I've got my head up my a** but even though the
company is scum it might not be a good idea to threaten them with
spreading the word about them through Digital. Especially if the
notes file is mentioned. Seems like something like that would put
DEC on shaky legal ground.
That's not to say the word shouldn't be spread. Just questioning
the method.
George
|
186.451 | A word from the moderator...
| HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Thu Sep 21 1989 17:30 | 20 |
| Please DO NOT threaten contractors that you're going to write scathing
non-recommendations of them in this conference. Doing so could make Digital
subject to unpleasant legal consequences, and Digital's natural reaction would
be to cut its losses by shutting this conference down.
Mentioning that you work at Digital and that you intend to communicate your
displeasure to many co-workers is OK (as far as I'm concerned). It sounds like
that's what .0 did.
Discussion in this topic should be limited to whether .0 has any recourse (which
is, after all, what she asked).
Note that the story in .0 would be seen by more people if it were posted in
2021, the roofing contractors' recommendation topic. If you choose to do so,
Judy, please rewrite the story to make it more factual and less emotional;
the emotional details given in .0 are, in my opinion, relevant to the question
"do I have any recourse?", but not appropriate for the recommendation topic
(where we have to be very careful to be strictly factual).
DCL, moderator
|
186.452 | "Sharing your experience" | VOLKS::JACKSON | KEN | Thu Sep 21 1989 17:50 | 8 |
|
If you would like to "share" your experience and get some
additional exposure, enter your note in LYCEUM::CONSUMER.
Companies like the one you mention deserve all the exposure
they can possibly get.
|
186.453 | Thanks for advice | GIAMEM::COLEMAN | | Thu Sep 21 1989 19:04 | 18 |
| To .1, .2, .3 - thank you very much for responding. I certainly
had no intention of getting Digital involved or this notes file
in trouble, I simply wanted some advice, and a chance to let other
people know about their unfair treatment, and, of course, to get
advice on what possible recourse I might have. I appreciate your
comments and will, indeed, add the note to the "consumer" area.
Other people have mentioned contacting the Better Business Bureau
and filing a complaint against them. I think I will do this.
It made me feel better just knowing other people agreed that this
company was unfair. Maybe in a way it was a blessing they didn't
do the job. God knows what I would have gone through if the roof
ever developed a leak later!
Thanks, and until I can get another roofer lined up, I'm praying
like crazy that we don't have that hurricane tomorrow or Saturday.
Judy
|
186.454 | Consult your attorney | VINO::DZIEDZIC | | Fri Sep 22 1989 11:17 | 9 |
| I'd suggest you ask your attorney whether or not you have any
legal recourse. While it is true you had no signed contract
(what "formal" in .1 implies?), courts have been know to
enforce verbal contracts. Since you received a written
estimate, and then gave a verbal OK, it COULD be construed
that you had a valid verbal contract.
At the cost of an hour of your attorney's time you can get
a definite answer, instead of notesfile speculation.
|
186.455 | Consult you attorney | GIAMEM::COLEMAN | | Fri Sep 22 1989 13:14 | 17 |
| .6 - I thought of that, and I honestly believe we did, indeed,
have a legal verbal contract (if I remember by Business Law
correctly). However, even if I won the case and the roofer was
forced to perform, I don't think I would have a great deal of comfort
that he would do a quality job, and if the roof ever leaked after
he finished, I would probably have another legal battle trying to
get him to come back to fix it. All in all, I decided it wasn't
worth it. I'm hoping that a few people will come up with some
reliable names for me of dependable, honest roofers. I have learned
a valuable lesson from all this. I will never again use a contractor
without first checking the Better Business Bureau and/or asking
for references.
Thanks for your note.
Judy
|
186.456 | you may still want a lawyer | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Sun Sep 24 1989 19:44 | 26 |
| You may still want to talk to a lawyer, and you may want to take them to
small claims court, which wouldn't require paying a lawyer for anything
except consultation. The point wouldn't be to force them to do your job.
The point would be to collect for:
1) The additional damage that happened to your ceiling between their
agreeing to do your job and their backing out of the agreement,
2) The aggravation and time that it cost to you try to get them to
fulfill their agreement, including their many broken promises, and
3) The extra cost over their written estimate (if any) of having the
job done by someone else (get another contract before suing them).
If you are like me, the psychic cost of taking them to court may exceed
what you could get from them. On the other hand, it would be a good
chance to learn how to use the court system. What have you got to lose,
except for some more time? You could always file against them and try
for an out-of-court settlement. Or you could rest content that there
are now tens of thousands of people who will *not* use their service --
or will be if you post appropriately modified copies of your note as
suggested in prior replies. Do you know how to use the referral notes
to get ideas on who else to use?
Luck (and thanks for the warning),
Larry
|
186.457 | | IAMOK::DELUCO | Jim DeLuco, Corp VTX Program | Fri Sep 29 1989 15:54 | 15 |
| Regarding references, do a directory/title=roof and you'll probably
find notes with recommendations. I recommend Assabet Roofing, Hudson,
Mass. They were the least expensive and did a good job for me last
year.
Regarding suing Multi-State, you will have to find some evidence that
you were damaged in some way, or that they caused you some expense you
wouldn't have otherwise encountered. You may find something in the
fact that additional damage was caused as a result of them not starting
the job on time but you are still responsible to mitigate the damages,
so their response may be that it's your responsibility to avoid
further damage as a result of your leaking roof. For example if you
schedule a roofer and while you're waiting the roof begins leaking, you
still have to try to stop the leaking or avoid damages. You can't just
claim that the roofer didn't start on time so it's their fault.
|
186.458 | Ahem! | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Sat Sep 30 1989 12:11 | 17 |
| .9> Regarding references, do a directory/title=roof and you'll probably
.9> find notes with recommendations. I recommend Assabet Roofing, Hudson,
.9> Mass. They were the least expensive and did a good job for me last
.9> year.
No. All recommendations in this conference are in the series of topics
starting at 2000. Roofing contractors, specifically, are at 2021. If
you want your recommendation to be seen by people looking for roofing
contractors, please post it there.
DIRECTORY/TITLE and (much, much worse) SEARCH make enormous demands on
JOET and on the network, and keep you waiting a long time, since
HOME_WORK is so large. And these demands are completely unnecessary
and wasteful, because of the index in 1111.*. Use it and leave some
bandwidth for the other users of the conference.
DCL, moderator
|
186.627 | Itemized List of Re-Roofing Tasks | SKYLRK::NG | DTN 521-4394 | Fri Oct 06 1989 19:01 | 14 |
| I would appreciate any help I can get. I am in the process of reroofing
and am tearing off old wood shakes and putting on fiberglass shingles.
I am writing a contract for the roofer and need an itemized list of
work that reroofing should cover. It's fixed price ($8100 for 40
squares roof) so I want to make sure nothing is overlooked. e.g
Tear off old roof
Lay down Plywood
etc
I need this as soon as possible. Thanks for your help,
Pin
|
186.628 | | HKFINN::GALLAGHER | | Mon Oct 09 1989 15:43 | 23 |
|
Well, here's some starters:
Flashing for the valleys (I don't recall the thickness -- someone
else should be able to fill in this blank). I'd use metal and
the stuff that the Bird Ice Belt is made of
Lead flashing if any chimmenys need to be repaired,along with
the necessary mortar to attach to the bricks that will need
pointing
At least a 10 yard dumpster -- if you haven't discussed disposing
of the old shingles, do it now. 40 squares of shingles, tarpaper,
and old roofing materials is a lot of construction waste, and
getting rid of it isn't cheap. (See the topics listed under
the keyword in 1111.*whatever.
I see by your node location that you're in California and I
assume you don't an ice belt or ice belt protection.
Despite the cost of waste disposal, I think your decision to strip
the roof is a good one.
|
186.629 | A few more ideas | SHARE::CARDINAL | | Tue Oct 10 1989 11:30 | 18 |
| THings I can think of:
Determine grade of shingles to be used. Decide color.
Depending on slope of roof may want to discuss ice damming
(ice backs up under shingles due to low slope).
Felt paper us usually applied under the roofing.
You may want to specify the number of nails per shingle
(Correct is four per/ cost cutting is two per)
You will need a drip edge all the way around.
You will probably need gutters in some areas.
If you have shakes and are going to shingles you probably
require a new underlayment (plywood) for shakes were generally
applied to strips of wood to allow breathing and this would be
an inappropriate sub-surface for shingles. If you need an
underlayment, you need to specify thickness (3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4)
The right choice depends on your rafter spacing (and maybe pitch?)
.1 is correct: Don't forget the garbage. You may also ask for proof
of insurance from the contractor. Finally, don't give all the $
up front. Good Luck, Ken
|
186.581 | Need used Roof Slates Suppliers | CSSE::CACCIA | the REAL steve | Mon Oct 23 1989 14:27 | 14 |
|
Buried somewhere in the several thousand notes and replies are the
names of at least one and possible more salvage companies. The ones
that knock down houses/buildings and then sell the used parts. I cannot
find them. Either because they are buried under some cutesy title or
because they are very specific with a company name. I am looking for
specifically roof slates.
If I've been dumb and used the wrong search/dir combination please
excuse.
Thanks,
Steve
|
186.582 | Architectural salvage company pointers | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Mon Oct 23 1989 15:43 | 20 |
| I think these are what you're looking for:
120 2 Olde Boston Architectural Antiques
1499 4 Report on OLDE BOSTONIAN in Boston
The replies to 120 contain the names of a couple of other such companies.
1499 appears to be about the same company that gives 120 its name; obviously
one of the spellings is erroneous. With the note titles so screwed up, it's
not surprising you couldn't find what you were looking for; I might combine
these two topics and make the title more descriptive sometime.
Your own title, by the way, isn't especially meaningful. I might change it if
more useful pointers accumulate here (or you can change it yourself).
My strategy for finding these, by the way, was to look in 1111.97, SUPPLIERS.
By looking in 1111.85, ROOF, I also found
2103 3 Stucco House with Slate Roof?
which may be of interest.
|
186.583 | Soldering Copper Flashing | SHARE::CALDERA | | Tue Oct 24 1989 19:37 | 24 |
| I have read the three NOTES 1327,1733 and 2990, they are great
for what most normal people want to solder.
I would like to cover a roof deck railing with copper flashing,
where the corners come together I would like to overlap them
and solder the seams to make it water tight.
Does anyone have any ideas or helpful hints as to how to
solder a long (8-12 inch) latteral seam.
Should I first run a bead of solder along the two surfaces to
be joined, put one ontop of the other and re-heat ?
Or just unroll a piece of solder between the two pieces and
pour on the heat.
I know in any case to have my wife standing by with a fire
extinguisher in one hand and the other ready to dial 911.
Thanks,
Paul
|
186.584 | 808, 1000 | OASS::B_RAMSEY | half a bubble off plumb | Wed Oct 25 1989 00:23 | 6 |
| These are some notes about metal roofing and possibilities for
suppliers and installation tips. I seem to remember somewhere in
here someone talking about having a brother-in-law installing a
copper roof on a bay window extension but can not seem to find it.
It seems we could use a note to tie it all together. Have at it.
|
186.585 | Go For It ! | WFOV12::BISHOP | | Wed Oct 25 1989 11:04 | 15 |
| I just completed a mailbox, covered in copper flashing. Made it
like a wooden box (the size of a mailbox) then covered with copper.
Same for the door.
Bending will be a problem, for your project. (mine too) The big
problem you'll encounter, is warping from the heat. The copper
flash will do all kinds of bending and twisting, while you solder
it.
You will need a flux, or flux core solder. I tried a big old iron.
Not enough heat. A torch works best. Have no idea, what the wood
looks like, under the copper. It's covered now. Anyway, there
wasn't much smoke. And no smell, of burnt wood.
Alan
|
186.586 | | TRITON::CONNELL | Down on Toidy-toid 'n Toid Avenue | Wed Oct 25 1989 11:30 | 9 |
| Paul,
The June/July 1988 issue of Fine Homebuilding magazine has an article
on fabricating an all-copper chimney cricket. It has good information
on soldering long sheets of copper. I just happen to have the issue
sitting in front of me right now...if you'd like a copy of the article,
just drop me a line (with your mailstop) and I'll send it to you.
--Mike
|
186.587 | You need to find a big iron | MAY11::WARCHOL | | Wed Oct 25 1989 13:15 | 14 |
| To solder sheet metal without a lot of warping you need an extremely
large iron. Something in the 350 watt or higher range with a tip over
1" in diameter. A torch can't concentrate the heat enough to keep the
buckling down. These irons are big and heavy and are not found at your
local tool store.
You also want to use soldering acid and solder in a bar form. Liberally
apply the acid to the surfaces to be joined, heat the joint and the
solder should wick into the joint just fine.
My father's the one that showed me, and he's been doing sheet metal
work for almost 40 years.
Nick
|
186.529 | Asphalt shingles visible from attic & frost on nails | AIMHI::MMAZIALNIK | | Tue Dec 19 1989 14:52 | 17 |
| I have another question about another house that I'm looking at.
When I went to inspect the attic (big walkin type) I noticed 2 things
1. You could see the asphalt shingles. Aparently theres about a
2-3 inch gap between the boards.
2. There was frost on the nails (condensation?)that hold the
shingles on one side of the roof.
Besides the normal cost of reroofing the house do these sound like
potential problems that might add significantly to the cost of
reroofing or is this just typical on older houses (~50 years old)
Thanks
Mike
|
186.530 | Quite normal | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Tue Dec 19 1989 16:52 | 2 |
| Typical, in my experience. The condensation indicates less-than-optimal attic
ventilation, but that's typical too in houses of that vintage.
|
186.531 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Dec 19 1989 17:55 | 17 |
| The gaps between the boards may be a problem when reshingling.
Asphalt shingles should ideally be laid over a solid deck;
they aren't particularly good at spanning gaps. Although
you didn't say, I strongly suspect you have multiple layers
of shingles on your roof.
When the time comes to reshingle, I think you'll want to do
something about the gaps (say, any gap over about 1/2" to 3/4"
wide). I had this same problem a couple of years ago when I
reshingled my roof, and ended up replacing about 1/3 of the
roof boards to tighten everything up. Another alternative I
considered was putting a layer of 1/4" plywood over everything.
Personally, I'd urge you to keep the boards. I found that the
shingle nails held *much* better in the boards than in the
1/2" plywood roof deck of the new additon.
I wouldn't worry too much about the frost on the nails, except
you may want to improve the attic ventilation a little.
|
186.532 | Attic snowballs | ASD::DIGRAZIA | | Thu Dec 21 1989 13:38 | 21 |
|
I also see little snowballs on the shingle nails.
I humidify the house, and I believe the ceilings do not have
vapor-barrier paint.
The house is about 5 years old, and has vinyl siding.
The eaves are covered with perforated vinyl, which I'm told
doesn't allow enough air flow, even though there's a ridge
vent.
If you fiddle with the roof, try to install a ridge vent.
Maybe you can fill the gaps with 2" strips.
Also, since you see moisture in the attic, you probably
ought to shun skylights.
Regards, Robert.
|
186.580 | | MCIS2::DUPUIS | | Thu May 17 1990 16:42 | 35 |
| Curiosity finally got the best of me, so I finally wrote the author of
this note and here's her reply...
Hi,
Sorry I never got back into the file, but I don't really go in that file
too much AND there is not much to report.
I did call some surveyers and they couldn't come out for several months and
the prices they quoted were unbelieveable - over $1,000, can't remember for
sure it's been so long.
We have been kind of ignoring him and he has been doing his usual staring
at us. He is a very, very strange person!
I suppose we really should go into court and get a final adverse possession
put on our deed, but that probably costs a small fortune (knowing how
lawyers charge) and right now we just don't have the money.
Also he bought the land from someone else about six or so years ago and we
don't know if that makes a difference.
I am waiting for him to fall through the fill he put in. He mows with a
power mower and he buried all kinds of trees stumps, and miscellaneous
items - our wheel barrel for one thing - and those things do rot and the
earth will cave in one of these days.
Sorry for keeping you all hanging!
Phyllis
|
186.275 | seeking adice on installing a flat roof | HOYDEN::BURKHOLDER | 1 in 10 | Fri May 18 1990 12:56 | 28 |
|
I am building a house which for now consists of a poured
foundation, open to ground level on one side, and the 1st
floor floor, which serves as the roof. I call it my cellar
hole. In 5 or 10 years I may erect the other two stories.
Initially I covered the roof with 3 layers of 6 mil plastic.
It lasted a year before the sun deteriorated the plastic
and the wind broke it into tiny pieces.
I am looking for a more permanent roof, something that will
last about 10 years and I am considering installing a rubber
membrane roof. Rubber membrane is probably more expensive
than ashphalt roll roofing, but it would be reusable after I
build the rest of the house (a wonderful tarp for the wood
pile!).
Seems like membrane would be easier and quicker than roll
roofing. Simply lay out the sheet, fasten the edges, and
place a bunch of tires on top to prevent the wind from
lifting it up.
I would like to hear from anyone who has had experience
installing a flat roof or buying and installing rubber
membrane roofs. I am interested in cost, availability,
durability, and installation issues.
Nancy
|
186.276 | Do you really want to live there? | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Mon May 21 1990 14:32 | 4 |
| re .3:
That sounds a lot like that place where a whole family died in a fire.
Is it safe to live in?
|
186.277 | | ALIEN::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon May 21 1990 15:17 | 16 |
| > That sounds a lot like that place where a whole family died in a fire.
> Is it safe to live in?
Of course it is. The family that died in the fire would have been just as
dead in any other house. The guy started a fire in the woodstove using
gasoline, and left the still-open gasoline container in the room when he lit
the fire. Of course the container exploded, covering everything in the room -
including the occupants - with burning gasoline. The kind of house had nothing
to do with it.
I didn't want to delete your question or anything, but I wanted to stave off a
possible rathole about the safety of house-in-a-foundation.
And now, back to the question of rubber membrane roofing....
Paul
|
186.223 | Let's update roofing prices... | GOSOX::RYAN | DECwindows Mail | Tue May 22 1990 16:06 | 12 |
| After three years, I imagine the typical prices have changed
a bit... Also, most of the estimates in this note are for
shingled, sloped roofs, which isn't my situation...
Roughly how much can I expect to pay to replace two small
flat roofs (total area about 110 square feet) and about 40
feet of gutters with about 15 feet of downspouts? This is in
Pepperell, MA. It looks like these roofs are no stranger to
leakage, so I'm not going to be surprised if more needs to
be replaced than the roofs themselves...
Mike
|
186.295 | Small, mysterious roof leak | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Mon Jun 04 1990 16:48 | 47 |
| Here's a question from Jeff Winston, HOME_WORK (and Digital) alumnus - he works
for Kurzweil now. His house has a roof leak that's sufficiently mysterious to
make him wish for some advise from HOME_WORK. I owed him a favor, so I agreed
to front for him. I'll take care of sending any replies back to him.
----
Help Roof Experts! I have a older roof in good shape, except for one
small leak which is nevertheless very difficult to find. Any ideas on
how to track and fix this leak would be greatly appreciated.
The leaking section is over a cathedral ceiling. Inside, there are
exposed beams just below the ceiling with vertical pieces of pine on
either side of each beam (see drawing below). I have two dribble leaks
(like 4oz per day in heavy rain) coming down off one beam - between the
beam and the piece of pine, about 4 ft apart.
.....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~X QQQQ:X~~~~~~~~~~~ = ceiling
X QQQQ:X X = pine
X QQQQ:X Q = beam
X QQQQ:X : = assumed path of water
:
(for proper perspective, tip your terminal about 10 degrees to the left).
The roof is not real steep, 2 layers, the most recent about 12 years
old. It appears (and roofers have told me) to be in good shape, sheds
water well, etc. The only problem appears to be a few 'ridges' across
the roof caused by the lower layer "sinking". It was thought that the
resulting depressions caused water to backup under the shingles, and
repairs so far have been targeted at filling in or sealing around these
depressions, to no avail. However, I went up on the roof in the rain
this week, and didn't see any water retention anywhere. However, what
struck me odd is that wherever I lifted a shingle, a little water ran
out, and the roof surface seemed <wet>. Should the shingles absorb
water like this? One other thing, it really takes 5-6 hours of heavy
rain to trigger the leak. A lighter rain doesn't cause it.
So, I guess I'm looking for sage advice on how to track down and
eliminate this leak. I think that if I do, I will get a few more years
out of the roof. On the other hand, if you think replacement is in
order hope not), what's a good price (I was quoted $90/sq), should I do
the whole thing, or maybe just the half that has the leak? (I do know I
should think about adding a ridge vent....) Any and all advice greatly
appreciated - thanks /j
|
186.296 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Mon Jun 04 1990 18:42 | 37 |
| This sort of problem can be lots of "fun" -- the leak on the
inside of the ceiling can be a l_o_n_g way from the probem on the
outside of the roof! Water can get between the layers of roofing
and or between the roofing and the roof sheating and travel to
another spot before driping into the house.
The first thing is to check the overall condition condition of the
roof. You've already done that. Check with special care in the
area over where water drips inside. check 2-3 feet on each side of
ths spot and all the way up to the ridge. Check the ridge
carefully; The shingles caping the ridge and the ridge vent, if
any, can be weak spots.
Is their anything that sticks through the roof or is attached to
it? Like a chimney pipe or a brace for an antena? If so check
where they are attache to / pass through the roof. -- If there are
any skylights they ar prime candidates.
Is this section of roof the only or highest roof on the house? If
not there must be an interesction, probably with a wall to the
higher levels or possibly with a higher roof. Check the flashing
at the wall or the transition point to the higher roof.
Whatever you do, dont OVERdo the caulking. Excess caulk won't help
the problem but will make it more difficult to locate. Remember,
roofs are NOT designed to be "water proof". They are designed with
layers of overlaping shingles and fashings so that the water that
gets through one layer will run bakup out on top the next layer of
shingles/flashing. Don't caulk the lower edge of your shingles or
flashing. If you do you trap any water that gets in and force it to
back up and eventually leak. Look for places along the upper edge
or sides of shingles and flashing where water could get in and
caulk these places. Also look for any nails/screws that penetrate
the shingles. A bit of caluk on the nail/screw head can help. On
skylights and chimneys caulk along the top edge and sides, as
appropriate for the flashing system they use. In generaal you need
not caulk the bottem edges.
|
186.297 | Small isn't neglible | SMURF::KEGEL | Clone me, Dr. Memory! | Mon Jun 04 1990 21:18 | 10 |
| One thing I learned about roofing is that water is very fleixble ;-) It doesn't
take much of a "hole" to take in water. I put hole in quotes, because the last
roof leak I fixed didn't even have a hole, per se, there was just a spot that
was "worn" or "scratched/rubbed" looking. It was producing a couple of cups of
water, only in heavy storms. An inch or two of silicone roofing cement, and
the problem was fixed. I almost didn't apply the cement -- I figured I would
have to call in a roofer for some real detective work -- but I did and it
worked.
So, watch those small holes.
|
186.298 | "Roofing time??" | SA1794::DOWSEYK | Kirk Dowsey 243-2440 | Tue Jun 05 1990 17:46 | 24 |
| My small leak started as a very small damp spot on the side
of a rafter. Note no drips, only a small damp spot. I checked the
outside of the roof and found a problem in another area that did
not leak. The damp spot dried and never returned. I 'fixed' the
bad spot. But this spring a kitchen window fell out!!
What happened was that when the roof was built some of the joints
between the roof boards were not staggered, many board ends butted
together on the same raftes. The roof started to leak over the joints,
along the top of the rafters, and into the side wall of the house.
There was no sign that rain water was pouring down inside the wall.
As a result I have to replace the entire wall, inside and out, and
the support structure along 20 feet of the house. There is not one
foot of wood in that wall that is not rotten.
I have found out the hard way that when the shingles on an old roof
are replaced that the old uneven roof boards must be replaced or
covered over with plywood. I also will never assume that because I
don't see water dripping on the floor that the roof is good.
Kirk
|
186.299 | Check Chimney Brick-Use Water Seal | EBISVX::HQCONSOL | | Wed Jun 06 1990 15:40 | 9 |
| This problem brought back not so "fond" memories of a leak we
encountered with a cathedral ceiling in the additon we built.
The source of the leak was the chimney......and after rechecking
all the flashing, the contractor found that the chimney brick
was "absorbing" rain water like a sponge and running down a
roof rafter where it dripped through the ceiling. The fix was
to "treat" the brick with Thompson's Water Seal. The contractor
said that this is not uncommon with older brick chimneys.
|
186.224 | BUYERS MARKET | HEFTY::LEMOINEJ | ANOTHER POINT OF VIEW | Fri Jun 08 1990 12:27 | 15 |
|
I presently getting estimates for having my house reroofed this
year and can tell you at least here in Western Massachusetts
roofing contractors have dropped their prices quite a bit since
last year. Last year I decided after getting estimates to wait
another year before doing the roof but got estimates averaging 2500.00
for stripping two layers of old shingles and putting on a new 25
year roof with ridge vent, this year getting estimates from the same
contractors the price has dropped on the average of 500.00 bucks!
Definitely a buyers market this year for new roof installations,
a least here in Western Massachusetts, but the way the house I'm
refering to is a 7 room cape...
john
|
186.225 | send them 3 hours south | PCOJCT::MILBERG | I was a DCC - 3 jobs ago! | Fri Jun 08 1990 12:47 | 12 |
| WOW!
Next guy you talk to with such good prices, IF they have references for
quality - ask them if they want to come down to Northern NJ and do my
house! I'll even give them a place to sleep and feed them.
Since the economy here is (relatively) good and there is so much
remodeling constantly going on, prices are outrageous. Just got a bid
of $2000 for a 9 x 12 deck!
-Barry-
|
186.300 | More from Jeff W. | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Fri Jun 08 1990 22:36 | 52 |
| From: DECWRL::"winston%lsrhs.UUCP@XAIT.Xerox.COM" "Jeff Winston" 7-JUN-1990 18:59:59.28
To: hannah::dcl
CC:
Subj: thanks for the replies
I had 2 roofers out last saturday, told me the same thing - which was different
than what the roofer who put the roof on told me, perhaps for obvious reasons..
they said that when the 2nd layer of shingles was put on, the tops of the
shingles weren't lined up "as they should be" so when you lift a shingle,
about 1/2 up under the shingle you see where the top of a shingle from a
lower layer. this causes two problems:
1) a ridge across the middle of the upper shingle, causing water retention
behind the ridge
2) an "exposed" crack between 2 shingles from the lower layer which water
can get into if it is blown under the top layer.
basically they claimed the roof was prematurely failing because it was done
wrong.
On one hand, what they showed me made a degree of sense, on the other hand -
its lasted this long without problems, and most of it is still lasting, so
i'm not sure if it was defective construction or not (anyone else know?)
Anyway, they both recommended looking UNDER all the shingles in the suspect
area and filling all cracks, etc. I did so, and found 2 or 3 suspiciously
loose nails right near the leaks, so I filled around them as well.
Now, all I have to do is wait for the next storm - keep the comments coming!
/j
PS: TO amateur roofers, I have been using roof sealer in a caulking gun, allows you to do patching real quickly. There are some latex 'asphalt' sealer products
which flow easily out of the caulk gun, i wouldn't use them for large exposed
areas (they don't stand up to the sun as well) but they're great for small
patches or patches under the shingles. For sunny areas, use oil-based roof cement (also available in caulk cannisters)
/j
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 90 17:54:39 EDT
From: winston%lsrhs.UUCP@XAIT.Xerox.COM (Jeff Winston)
Message-Id: <9006072154.AA06661@lsrhs>
To: hannah::dcl
Subject: thanks for the replies
|
186.226 | Barry 9x12 deck | HPSTEK::MNORMAND | | Tue Jun 12 1990 18:31 | 5 |
| Barry
Figure 5.00 - 7.00 dollars for labor plus materials so $2k is about
right......mfn
|
186.227 | | HPSTEK::MNORMAND | | Tue Jun 12 1990 18:32 | 3 |
| Barry,
5.00 - 7.00 Dollars per square ft
|
186.228 | re .28 and .29 | NYEM1::MILBERG | I was a DCC - 3 jobs ago! | Wed Jun 13 1990 02:29 | 15 |
| maybe my 'old math' is out of date, but...
9 feet x 12 feet = 108 square feet
$2,200 / 108 square feet = $22 per square foot
or
108 square feet x $7 per square foot = $756
There IS a factor of 3 missing someplace.
-Barry-
|
186.229 | | GIAMEM::RIDGE | Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Wed Jun 13 1990 15:39 | 4 |
| I believe that you could get the deck installed for $10-$10.50
per sq foot. Including lumber.
9x12 = 108 x 10.5 = $1,134
|
186.301 | question | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Fri Jun 22 1990 20:19 | 14 |
186.230 | contract? | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Mon Jun 25 1990 20:16 | 17 |
|
I'm going to hire a roofer to roof my house. This is the first time
I haven't done my own work and I'm concerned lest I neglect something
important. Do these guys come with some standard boilerplate contract?
What is normal to expect for a guarantee, such as leaks or problems?
Do I take his word for it that he's insured or do I ask to see something.
What's the expectation for cleanup? I don't want to see a single nail
left lying around as my tenant does child care. Does one write that in
a contract?
Should I care what kind of shingle he uses? The first quote was for
20 year fiberglass shingles. That sounded fine to me but then I read
somebody in here talking about 25 year shingles. Worth the extra $$?
Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks,
Bob
|
186.231 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Jun 25 1990 20:24 | 17 |
| You should definitely care about these things. Feel free to request to
amend the contract to specify whatever you want - the roofer may say no or
may change the quote, depending on what you ask for. I would expect that
all debris would be cleaned up and material removed, but get it in writing
if you want to be sure.
As for the shingle, you should do a bit more investigating. Ask to see the
manufacturer's brochures, look at samples. One roofer offered to bring over
a bundle of two different kinds and nail them up on my roof so I could figure
out which one I liked better. Remember you'll be living with these a long
time.
The 25-year shingles are thicker and will typically last longer. The
price difference isn't that much. If you start getting into "architectural"
shingles, the price goes up.
Steve
|
186.232 | ask how he'll do it. | SHALDU::MCBLANE | | Tue Jun 26 1990 12:44 | 7 |
| I would be inclined to ask HOW he intends to get all of the nails up.
He could put tarp down all around your house. The bushes would have to be
tied back or the tarp would have to go over the bushes. Or, he could
use a magnet bar after the fact. But, if he just plans to rake them
up, I doubt he'll get them all.
-Amy
|
186.233 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Jun 26 1990 15:14 | 8 |
| Given the cost of the labor for putting it on, the materials cost
for a new roof is trivial. I'd get the best possible shingles
available. Even if they cost twice as much as the others, it
will add maybe 10% to the total cost of the project (totally
random guess). Even if it costs 20%, it's still trivial when
one considers the aggravation involved in getting the job done.
Bird has 30-year shingles that are about $45/square, by the way.
|
186.533 | Fixing roof where shingles do not overhang on the sides | CONCRT::MCGOVERN | | Wed Jun 27 1990 04:09 | 35 |
| My father-in-law had his roof redone 7 or 8 years ago by some
friends. The roof is two flat sections pitched at about 30
degrees with gutters at the lower ends of the roof and no gutters along
the front and back sides.
Some friends. They left no shingle overhang on the sides of the
roof. The ends of the roof (at the gutters) have OK single overhang
and drip edge, but the shingles on the sides of the roof are cut flush
with or in some places not even beyond the edge of the fascia (sp?)
board. These boneheads even sealed the soffit vent that ran the entire
length of the roof ends! (I already opened that up.)
Can I insert flashing or some specialized drip edge along the
sides where the shingles have no overhang? I'm going to have to
replace some sections of fascia board and I'm afraid I may have to
replace some sections of roof, too (I'm sure the decking is soft in
there by now.) I hope to get away with minimal repair and putting
in the flashing or drip edge.
TOP VIEW Ridge
| /-------Side w/no overhang
____________________________________/_____
| | |
| | |
--> | | | <--
| |_________________________|________________| |
| / |
end with gutter side w/no overhang/ end with gutter
I'm looking for feedback on this approach or any other approach
someone might suggest. Please prompt for more details or clearer
illustrations if necessary.
MM
|
186.534 | And Another Thing... | EWDSYS::MCGOVERN | | Wed Jun 27 1990 14:04 | 8 |
| I also considered cutting shingles into 5 or 6 inch pieces and placing
them on the roof with the proper overhang. I figured I'd seal themn to
the underlying shingles with roofing cement after nailing them in
place.
Comments on this approach?
MM
|
186.535 | | STAR::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Wed Jun 27 1990 17:30 | 8 |
| The other thing you could do is remove all the cut shingles from the roof and
replace them with ones with the proper overhang. Removing the shingles needs
to be done carefully, and is difficult if the shingles have become brittle, but
I've done it successfully.
This is also assuming that you can get matching color shingles.
Paul
|
186.234 | Roofers and what to watch for, couple of thoughts | CARTUN::VHAMBURGER | Foresight is great, _after_ the fact! | Thu Jun 28 1990 12:47 | 27 |
|
Couple of random comments about contracting for a roof based on my
experiances.....
1. My first roofer took my deposit and never came back......Need I say
more? If you contract for a roof, look me up on ELF and call, you don't
want to get hit by this guy. Policy won;t let me post his name here, but
you can be sure I will be happy to share it with you over the phone. I now
have a warrent for his arrest from Worcester housing court, plus I did a
few other tricks to keep him busy with the tax folks for a while.....I may
yet see some/all of my money back, it is just taking longer than you can
imagine.
2. Second roofer was better, but tried two tricks to watch out for. First,
he delivered Ico brand shingles instead of Bird windseal 25 year shingles.
The Ico stuff, while reasonable quality, was 20 year stuff, but it does not
say that ANYWHERE on the package. I refused the work, cost the roofer a
days pay for his help, and annoyed him no end...Tough! I also sent back the
Electro galvanized nails, and demanded hot dipped galvanized. much better
nails, the EG stuff is JUNK! I had specified the Bird shingles in the
original contract, but when I found the Ico's were 20 year, I really came
unglued....I am sure the difference in price would have saved the roofer a
couple of hundred $$ on my total roof. Latly the clean up was fair, but I
had 2-3 grocery bags of scrap to get rid of....plus 2-3 dz nails around the
house that had to be picked up.
Vic H
|
186.235 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Jun 28 1990 14:11 | 5 |
| re: .36
Electrogalvanized nails...yeah. Some of them are okay, but I got
a batch from Korea or maybe Taiwan that were ***JUNK***. The
heads came off if you tried to pull them out. I eventually got
a box of nails from Canada that are light-years better in quality.
|
186.236 | I vote diy on this one.. | FNATCL::QUEDOT::DVORAK | dtn 297-5386 | Fri Jun 29 1990 22:41 | 19 |
|
Based on my experience of re-roofing my garage (400 square feet) I
would suggest you DIY. I had no previous experience, and was initially
very apprehensive about attempting this project. However, by following
the brief directions in Fine Homebuilding I ended up with a (nearly)
perfect job. It took 3 man-days to cover the roof (and I finished the
day before a big snowstorm). Roofing is hard work, but the skills get
picked up pretty fast. You will need: a hammer you are comfortable
with, a Stanley razor knife, a framing square, a can of roofing cement,
nails, a tool pouch to put nails in, and shingles. I bought my
shingles at Builders Square on sale, for about $25/ 100 square feet.
(Owen corning 20 year? shingles). I felt that I was unlikely to be in
the house in 20 years, that the added cost of 25 or 30 year shingles
was not justified in my case. One final tip: You do not! need to
remove the clear cellophane strip that covers the self-stick tar strip
on the underside of the shingle (I only figured this out 1/2 way
through *groan*).
gjd
|
186.237 | like eating sour balls in the wrapper? | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Sat Jun 30 1990 00:37 | 10 |
| re: -.1 huh? If you don't remove the celophane how's the gunk supposed to
stick to the shingle underneath?
As for DIY, that's a judgement each person makes based on time, skill, resources
and $$$. This job is being hired out.
I did get some good advice I'll pass along. It was recommended that I request
the roofer have his insurance company mail me proof of insurance coverage.
-B
|
186.238 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Jul 02 1990 12:36 | 8 |
| The cellophane is to prevent the shingles from sticking together
when they are piled in bundles. When the shingles are laid out
in their installed position, so they overlap, the cellophane isn't
anywhere near the tar of the shingle it's on top of. Furthermore,
the cellophane tends to strengthen the shingle right where the
nails go through (my opinion), so you do *NOT* want to take it off.
The directions *SAY* not to take it off!!!
|
186.239 | | RUNAWY::QUEDOT::DVORAK | dtn 297-5386 | Mon Jul 02 1990 16:59 | 12 |
|
Steve, I think what you meant to say was that when the shingles are
installed there is a layer of tar on the top surface of the
"underneath" shingle that aligns with the cellophane. The cellophane
in turn covers the tar strip on the bottom surface of the "on top"
shingle. After installation the tar of the "underneath" shingle sticks
to the cellophane.
Didn't you?
gjd
|
186.240 | | HKFINN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Jul 02 1990 17:41 | 31 |
| Re: .41
No....I don't think so. Unless you meant to say that "...*before*
the shingles are installed [when the shingles are in the package],
there is a layer of tar on the top surface of the "underneath"
shingle that aligns..."
After the shingles are installed, the cellophane doesn't align with
any tar at all.
A stack of shingles in a bundle:
T
------------------ tar on top of shingle aligns with
C cellophane on bottom of shingle
T above it, so they don't stick
------------------ together.
C
T
------------------
C
Installed:
T
-----------------
C ^ <---tar on lower shingle sticks to upper shingle.
T
-----------------
C
T
------------------
C
|
186.592 | Install fascia before or after roof plywood? | FSTVAX::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Mon Jul 09 1990 16:20 | 11 |
| should i install the facia board on the tails of roofing rafters BEFORE
i lay on the roofing underlayment (plywood)???? or does it make any
difference?
also, at what point should I install the plancier?
also, i am installing a ridge vent, so the plancier must be vented, so
should I use vinyl, aluminum, or build a wooden one?
tony
|
186.593 | OK, I give. | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Jul 09 1990 17:49 | 3 |
| What's a plancier? I've never heard of it.
Paul
|
186.594 | | FSTVAX::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Mon Jul 09 1990 19:50 | 24 |
| Plancier is one of several names for that flat surface under the rafter
tails (overhang) between the wall and the facia.
\***********\
\**********\ <-- roofing shingles over underlayment
\***********\
\***********\
_________+ <-- drip edge
+----+ |
| |
| |<--facia board
| |
************************| |
| ^ +----+
| |___ plancier
|
|<-- wall
sorry, not very good at graphic illustrating
What I am interested in is should the facia be installed before the
plywood underlayment on the roof?
tony
|
186.595 | Facia should go first | BIZNIS::CADMUS | | Tue Jul 10 1990 15:12 | 11 |
|
PLANCIER- ANOTHER NAME FOR A SOFFITT!
Install the facia BEFORE you put down the underlayment. All rafters
are not equal, and if you put down the underlayment- you will have
a bear of a time getting a fit between the facia and the underlayment.
I made that mistake once- on a small shed- It would be disastrous on a
house.
|
186.596 | Plywood first, then facia... | SMURF::PINARD | | Tue Jul 10 1990 15:27 | 10 |
| We always put down the roofing plywood first, using a straight edge
on the front of the rafters to make sure the top edge of the plywood
was flush with the rafter front... Rafters were made with a jig and
all were very even, may have to trim one sometimes but don't remember
doing it except on some trusses we had made for us.
The facia is put on all around afterwards, using a straight edge
on top of the plywood to make sure the front top corner doesn't
go above the plywood.. (because of angle, back corner is lower..)
Then drip edge... icebreaker (tar paper) etc...
Jean
|
186.597 | new fascia, existing roof? | MAST::DUTTON | Ed don't know broccoli | Wed Jul 11 1990 15:44 | 11 |
| Hmmm... this has me wondering about a job I need to do on our house
this summer...
Some of the fascia boards on the house are starting to show signs of
rot, mostly where the old gutters used to be attached to them. I had
planned on replacing the fascia boards this summer before the problem
advanced any further -- should I anticipate difficulties in fitting
the new fascia in? Has anyone out there had to do this kind of job?
|
186.598 | guess i'll do it this way. | FSTTOO::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Wed Jul 11 1990 16:52 | 11 |
| seems to be a split decision. so i decided to install the facia first.
i'll do that, then lay the plywood underlayment on top, right up to the
edge of the facia. then i'll put down 36" of that adhesive rubber
stuff sold for ice prevention, and then the drip edge over the
corner... finally the shingles on top of all that, with the shingle
edges slightly (1/4") over the edge of the drip edging.
how's that sound?
tony
|
186.599 | Icebarrier on top of drip edge... | SMURF::PINARD | | Wed Jul 11 1990 17:21 | 6 |
| r .6
I've built lots of houses, never did it that way...
The ice barrier should over lap on top of the drip edge.
Any other opinions?
|
186.600 | | FSTVAX::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Thu Jul 12 1990 20:07 | 6 |
| makes sense... i just moved up here from south texas... never had to
use an ice barrier before. ;^)
thanks for the tip
tony
|
186.601 | Cake | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Mon Jul 16 1990 22:40 | 5 |
| re .5 ("new fascia, existing roof"):
Just did it this past weekend on our 90-year-old house. Took quite awhile to
get the old boards off, even with my Sawsall. But putting the replacement
boards up was quick and simple.
|
186.602 | done! | FSTVAX::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Tue Jul 17 1990 00:07 | 7 |
| well, it's done now. I wound up putting the facia on first. it
actually helped me align the first row of underlayment, so I think it
was the right thing to do.
thanks for the input/help
tony
|
186.603 | hard off, easy on | MAST::DUTTON | Recursion: see recursive | Tue Jul 17 1990 17:20 | 5 |
| re: .9
Whew! That's encouraging! But why the Sawsall?
|
186.604 | A Sawsall is just a power crowbar | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Tue Jul 17 1990 18:48 | 12 |
| > But why the Sawsall?
The fascia was nailed into the rafter ends and into the soffit edge. The old
wooden gutter (previously removed - replacing it is the object of this whole
exercise) had been nailed to/through the fascia. The drip edge had been nailed
to the fascia. All of this nailing was done by exuberant advocates of the "if
using a few nails is good, using lots of nails must be great" school. Quite a
collection of nails, 90 years of fastener technology, little hope of pulling
any of them out of 90-year-old wood. The Sawsall was used to open up holes to
get some prying space, and to lop off nails from behind.
Besides, any excuse to use my Sawsall is good enough for me. :-)
|
186.443 | Rubber Roof | CECV03::LECLAIR | | Thu Jul 26 1990 14:40 | 4 |
| Any answers to this question yet? I am planning on putting a rubber
roof on a porch with an almost flat surface that keeps leaking with
regular flat roofing material. Anyone had any good luck with rubber
roofing? Any problems?
|
186.444 | my rubber roof doesn't smell of anything | WSINT::HOUSE | Kenny House - MLO5-2/B6 - 223-6720 | Thu Jul 26 1990 17:47 | 6 |
| I just had my porch roof and the back half of the main roof (full shed
cape) replaced with rubber roofing. This was about a month ago, and
there's been no smell at all.
-- Kenny House
|
186.445 | No smell with roll roofing | CURIE::DERAMO | | Mon Jul 30 1990 17:12 | 5 |
| I just re-roofed my front porch roof with double-coverage asphalt roll
roofing. The roof is near flat (4" drop in 7'), and was previously
covered with tin. Although I don't like the appearance of roll roofing,
I feel it was a good solution for this roof (which cannot be seen from
the ground).
|
186.607 | Roofing after a Rain | MILPND::ROSS | | Thu Sep 27 1990 11:16 | 20 |
| Here is a question regarding appropriate time to begin a re-roofing
job after a rain. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
A barn with one layer of older, warn roofing, lying flat. Underlying
roof wood in good condition, but roof has several minor leaks in
strong rain.
The question: after an overnight shower, how long should one wait
to let everything fully dry out before putting another layer of
roofing on this?
Is one day of decent weather enough? Longer?
Is there no real concern as long as it is not raining at the time
of roofing? If there is any dampness in the underlying wood will
it easily dry out on its own anyway?
Thanks for anyone's help.
Bob Ross
STING::ROSS
|
186.608 | | STAR::BECK | Paul Beck | Thu Sep 27 1990 20:40 | 18 |
| No help here, just a reminder of some folk wisdom (not all folk wisdom should
be followed):
"Hey, farmer!"
"Ay-yuh?"
"I see your roof's leaking."
"Yup. It does that when it rains."
"Why don't you fix it, then?"
"You durn fool, it's rainin' too hard."
"Then why don't you fix it when it's not raining?"
"Don't leak then."
|
186.609 | Don't need to wait... | OPUS::CLEMENCE | | Mon Oct 08 1990 15:32 | 7 |
| Bob,
I wouldn't think you would have to wait for the roof to dry out any
more than you would need to not slip off it. the extra moisture will
disipate out of the roof after a while. A shingle roof is designed to prevent
water from getting in not to prevent all moisture from transfering trough it.
Bill
|
186.319 | How to Climb a steep roof ? | BAGELS::RIOPELLE | | Wed Dec 19 1990 14:57 | 28 |
|
Well over the weekend a pigeon poked a hole in one of my shingles
right through the shingle, tar paper and splintered the plywood.
Our house is only 4 years old, and the roof I'd say had about a 45
degree pitch (see below), well I nailed a board up in the attic
to the rafter just in case the little devil comes back. I doubt it
especially after I wet it down the last cold night we had, he feel off
the roof and ran into the woods. I'm usally not crule but this bird
really got me mad. So now I've got to get a look at that spot. I've
walked roofs before, but not one with a pitch like this. I was thinking
of using a ladder flat on the roof roped off to the other side of the
house as an extra precuation. But what do I use to hold the ladder in
place on the roof ? Will these roof brackets to the job ?
/\
/ \
/ \ <- Pigeon poked hole here half way up
/ \
/ \ Walk Up attic
----------
| |
| | First floor
----------
| |
| | Second Floor
__________
|
186.320 | ladder hooks | OASS::BURDEN_D | He's no fun, he fell right over | Wed Dec 19 1990 20:53 | 3 |
| Try some of those ladder hooks that hooks over the peak of the roof.
Dave
|
186.321 | | BAGELS::RIOPELLE | | Thu Dec 20 1990 13:50 | 7 |
|
I thought about that too. But from the edge of the roof to the peak
i'd say is 25 to 30 feet, and the ladders that I have are all 20' long.
So even if I get the ladder to hook onto the roof peak, I'm not sure
how'd I get to it after.
|
186.63 | Remove first 2 courses on a reroof? | RUTLND::MCMAHON | Code so clean you can eat off it! | Thu May 30 1991 14:25 | 14 |
| With the help of a friend, I'm going to attempt a re-roof this weekend.
I had a roofer come out for an estimate and I've got 12.5 square to put
down. I've read all the notes and replies on putting a second layer on
over the first layer but the roofer confirmed that I don't have any
buckled or curling shingles so I'm going for it. My question is that I
have two sources on how to reshingle. One says to strip off the first
two courses of existing shingles, the other one doesn't say that this
is necessary - what do you recommend? I've bought the shingles and
they're being delivered and put on the roof with a boom truck. The $50
boom charge is certainly worth it considering I won't have to lug 38
bundles up to the roof. I haven't bought the nails yet but I figure
I'll get 20 lbs. of hot dipped galvanized, 1 3/4 inch. The slope's not
bad so I'll probably just go with nailing 2x4's. All in all, it should
be an interesting weekend.
|
186.64 | | WEFXEM::COTE | The keys to her Ferrari... | Thu May 30 1991 15:14 | 6 |
| I just had my roof redone, including stripping off the 2 that were
already on there. There were no courses removed when the second layer
went on 15+ years ago, and I had no problems. The underlayment was
in absolutely *perfect* condition...
Edd
|
186.65 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Fri May 31 1991 15:32 | 3 |
| The only reason I can see to remove the first two courses is so you
can check the edge of the roof deck for rot, etc. Which might be
a good thing to do....
|
186.66 | cosmetics ?? | FREDW::MATTHES | half a bubble off plumb | Fri May 31 1991 17:15 | 15 |
| Do you in fact mean the first two courses (rows) or the first two
layers ??
If layers, then I believe two at most are allowed due mostly to the
weight. If courses, then it may be for inspection.
When I did mine, I stripped the single layer. (If I stay in the house
the next time I'll put another layer on top of this - I won't make it
to the third.) However as a first course, I used roll roofing. So for
the first three feet I have no joints or seams to worry about leaking.
If this is the idea behind removing the first 2 courses, it's more like
six courses.
It may be pure cosmetics when you look at the edge of the roof from
below.
|
186.67 | | CSC32::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Tue Jun 04 1991 04:21 | 10 |
| RE-.1
Depending on local code you can go to 3 layers. I currently have 3 on
mine now and will have to strip them off this year to put on another
after last years hail storm. BTW-this is the 4th roof I have put on
my house in the 8 years I have lived there all due to hail. I recently
checked into steel roofing at $8k for steel -vs- $1200 for fiberglass
shingles I imagine I'll probably be replaceing it again within the next
few years.
-j
|
186.68 | Onduline.... | SALEM::GINGRAS | | Wed Jun 05 1991 11:14 | 7 |
| RE .46
Four new roofs in 8 years seems almost impossible, even with hail. You
may want to look onto Onduline roofing. This type of roofing is
certainly durable and has a lifetime guarantee. My guess is that it
is also significantly less expensive than steel.
|
186.69 | Almost all done! | RUTLND::MCMAHON | Code so clean you can eat off it! | Wed Jun 05 1991 15:13 | 12 |
| Well, this weekend, a friend and I went to town on our roof. Since the
roof had only one layer (the original from 25 years ago), we roofed
over. The roof is about 12.5 squares total and all except about 2
squares are on. I have to finish one small valley and the ridge. If I
were staying in the house, I'd put a ridge vent in. If the new owners
want one, they're welcome to do it. :-). I had the shingles delivered
to the roof by boom truck. It sure made it easier than hauling up 38
bundles! Our neighbor is a carpenter and he said that when he worked in
Florida, they used to always deliver the shingles to the roof but this
was the first time he's seen it done in Mass. Anyway, I'll be finishing
the roof off when I get home from work this week, after the rain
anyway. Thanks for all the advice.
|
186.70 | | CSC32::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Fri Jun 07 1991 01:53 | 8 |
| re.47 >> Four new roofs in 8 years seems almost impossible, even with
hail.
Not really golfball size hail is pretty common here in Colorado Springs
at least a small part of town gets it every summer but I do wish it
were impossible I *HATE* roofing and I'm too cheap to farm it out 8^)
-j
|
186.71 | | CNTROL::MACNEAL | ruck `n' roll | Fri Jun 07 1991 17:49 | 6 |
| Hopefully your insurance policy covered you for all of that hail
damamge. After we sold our Texas house we found out that the new
owners went up on the roof and found hail damage. Somehow they were
able to trace/blame it on a hail storm that happened while we still
owned the house and their insurance company covered the cost of
repairs.
|
186.72 | | CSC32::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Tue Jun 11 1991 01:09 | 7 |
| re-.1
Yes they covered it without questions (Farmers ins.) Colorado Springs
is infamous for it's golfball size hailstorms. The adjuster said that
hail damage in my neighborhood alone on the last storm was well over 2
million!
-j
|
186.73 | Need help with roof-on-a-roof | BUFFA::HALL | Brew Free or Die! | Mon Jul 08 1991 19:15 | 42 |
| I own an old (1955-ish) 8'x39' mobile home which is used at a campground.
Some years ago, a former owner built a pitched roof over the mobile home's
original, slightly-domed roof, in an effort to stop leaking. The leaking was
stopped, but I'm afraid the poor old mobile isn't dealing well with the weight
of the pitched roof. There is visible bowing of the ceilings in two rooms,
the aluminum skin is showing signs of compression (bowing out in places, and
screws popping) and the floor and walls are separating in a few places.
The roof was done by placing rafters of spruce 2x4 studs on 19" centers, more or
less, on a 2x4 frame around the perimeter of the original roof. I forgot to
scrutinize the ridge board, but I think it is a 2x6. For sheathing, rough-cut
pine boards were used, each 1" thick by 6" wide. These were covered by asphalt
shingles. There are 11 courses of these pine boards on each side of the roof.
From eave to ridge is 6', and from eave straight across to other eave is
probably about 9'. The roof surface is approximately 4.8 squares.
It was clear to me that the existing roof had to go, and I was reluctantly
going to rip off this perfectly functional pitched roof last week and then
tar the flat roof. However, someone suggested that I rip off the pine boards
and shingles, leave the stud frame, and cover it with galvanized roof panels.
Why hadn't I thought of that?
The total weight of the steel panels will be 340 pounds, plus the ridge cap
and nails. I've borrowed a book on roofing from the library, and have found
that a square of asphalt shingles weighs around 250 pounds, so I know there
is at least 1200 pounds of shingles up there. What I don't know is the
weight of the pine boards, and the stud frame. Obviously the roof will
weigh less without the pine boards and shingles, but my concern is about the
weight of the stud frame remaining. I don't want to waste time and money
to find out that there's still too much weight up there, but I also don't
relish the thought of tarring a roof every year, and driving 70 miles every
week in the winter to shovel snow off of the roof.
So, the purpose of this long note is to solicit ideas, comments, and opinions,
and also to ask the following questions: does anyone know how much aged 2x4
kd spruce weighs? My guess is that there is about 350 linear feet of it
involved. How about the 39' of 2x6? And rough-cut 1x6 pine boards (approx.
860 lf)?
The last thing I am is a carpenter or roofer, so any comments are appreciated.
-Dan
|
186.74 | weights.... | DOMINY::TAYLOR | no tool like an old tool. | Tue Jul 09 1991 11:38 | 13 |
186.75 | Assuming my math is correct, here's the numbers | BUFFA::HALL | Brew Free or Die! | Wed Jul 10 1991 18:53 | 16 |
| re: .53
Thanks Bruce. Using the figures you posted, I arrived at approximate
total weights of from 2435 to 3293 pounds currently, to 715 to 820
pounds after removal of the pine boards and the shingles, and
galvanized panels in their place.
The actual final weight will go up a little more, because I've got
to add purlins to the current structure to support the steel panels.
However, my feeling is that the total reduced weight will be adequately
borne by the trailer's roof, so I'm going to make the modification.
But first, I'm going to consider fiberglass panels, which are currently
on sale at Grossman's. Anyone have opinions about their durability?
-Dan
|
186.610 | Roof Pitches | ALLVAX::DUNTON | Frankly my dear..... | Thu Aug 29 1991 16:46 | 11 |
186.611 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Aug 29 1991 18:08 | 15 |
| I'm confused by your terminology. What do you mean by "7.8 pitch"?
Normally, roof pitch is expressed as "rise over run" with the
run always being a foot, so "6/12 pitch" would have 6" of vertical
rise for every foot of horizontal run.
Anyway...don't worry about snow sliding off the roof or not. It
probably doesn't now. It's not a big deal. A bigger concern is
the roofing. I think the recommended limit for asphalt shingles
is about a 3/12 roof (the roof ought to have at least that much
pitch, below that you ought to think about roll roofing; I may be
wrong on that though). Personally, I'd keep it above 4/12, but
that's strictly personal preference. If you keep a relatively
shallow pitch, it will be a heck of a lot easier to reshingle
when the time comes, although with roof jacks it's not all that
bad in any case.
|
186.612 | | ALLVAX::DUNTON | Frankly my dear..... | Thu Aug 29 1991 18:26 | 11 |
|
that's what I meant by the 7.8 pitch - 7.8/12.. for every 12 inchs
of run.. it rises 7.8 inches (or ~ 7 3/4").
My concern about the snow sliding off is .. my parents' house has
a small pitch (I'll guess and say it's about a 4/12 - it maybe less)
and mom noticed the roof leaking the other day (during Bob if it makes
a difference). Now she's saying something about a 20 yr warrenty and
it's only been 15 or so years. They have roofing shingles. I don't
want to be up on the roof again in 15 years when (most all) the shingles
offer 20 yr warrenty
|
186.613 | | EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Thu Aug 29 1991 18:37 | 4 |
| The roof on our house is 3/12. We put it on 7 years ago, with standard
shingles, and have never had a problem.
Paul
|
186.614 | Not a normal case! | XK120::SHURSKY | Over-the-hill is a state of body. | Fri Aug 30 1991 12:26 | 10 |
| > and mom noticed the roof leaking the other day (during Bob if it makes
> a difference). Now she's saying something about a 20 yr warrenty and
> it's only been 15 or so years. They have roofing shingles. I don't
A hurricane can blow water were it is not meant to go...like uphill or in any
tiny little crack. I would tell mum not to sweat unless it leaks under more
normal conditions. Besides the phone lines will be jammed at all the roofers,
etc. for the next couple of weeks. ;-)
Stan
|
186.615 | | FLOWER::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Tue Sep 03 1991 18:16 | 7 |
| When I added my addition,I put on a 4/1 4 ft rise in 12 ft run. I used
standard type shingles....no problem yet.
I believe that 3/1 is the minimum for any type of shingles. Less than
that and you need rolled roofing.
Marc H.
|
186.616 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Wed Sep 04 1991 15:05 | 6 |
| I must have missed something in the base note. You said you were going to
widen the garage to handle bigger doors. How would that do anything to the
pitch of the roof? Wouldn't you simply maintain the same pitch on the extra
4 feet?
Ed..
|
186.617 | saves weight too.. | ALLVAX::DUNTON | Frankly my dear..... | Fri Sep 06 1991 10:36 | 13 |
186.618 | | EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Fri Sep 06 1991 11:53 | 7 |
| Talk to your lumberyard. You CAN get 18' framing lumber. If they can't order
it try a bigger lumberyard.
It is special order and so more expensive, but it may wind up being a cheaper/
better option than lowering the roof pitch.
Paul
|
186.76 | Should I get another bid? | 35986::GRILLOJ | John Grillo @ Decus | Mon Sep 23 1991 15:01 | 7 |
| I got a price of $1200 to reshingle my roof and an attached sun room
with 17 squares of Bird windseal 80 (20 yr. guarantee) asphalt 100f (?)
shingles. He will be just covering over 1 set of shingles. Is there a
formula to determine if this is a fair price for putting down 17
squares of shingles?
Thanks.
|
186.77 | I'd get 3 to 5 bids... | DEMON::DEMON::CHALMERS | Ski or die... | Tue Sep 24 1991 13:24 | 9 |
| As a general rule of thumb, I'd get at least three bids. If you only
get one bid, you can't always tell if you're getting hosed. With two
bids, you can't really tell if the one with the lower bid is trying to
lowball you. With a third bid, you have a better way to evaluate the
bids: if two are high and one is really low, he might be lowballing
you; if two are low and one is high, you might feel that the lower bids
are legitimate...
Just my humble opinion...
|
186.78 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Sep 24 1991 14:08 | 9 |
| More important than the price, I think, is deciding if you have a
reputable contractor. A good contractor may charge a little more,
but to my mind he'll be well worth it in lessened aggravation. (And,
of course, a good contractor may be cheaper because he knows what
he's doing and can do it faster...and also because he's willing to
charge a fair price instead of the maximum he thinks he can get out
of you.)
Having somebody you can work with comfortably is worth a lot, IMO.
|
186.79 | Italian Method | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Tue Sep 24 1991 15:47 | 9 |
| I heard of one way to evaluate bids that I believe originated in Italy.
1.) Seek bids and collect as many as possible.
2.) Throw outthe highest bid - he's looking for a free ride
3.) Throw out the lowest bid - he doesn't know what he is doing
4.) add up all remaining bids and determine the average bid
5.) pick the contractor who's bid came the closest to the average. He
knows what he is doing and his price is fair.
|
186.619 | Need Advise on a Roof | WILLEE::SKOWRONEK | | Wed Sep 25 1991 19:06 | 52 |
|
I need some advise . . . . I am in the process of having alot of work
done on my home. Some of the work I will do myself, but for the big
stuff, I will need to contract out.
The major area that I am looking at is my roof. I definately need to
have a new one soon. I have had at least 6 roofing contractors and
general carpenters come to my house to give me estimates. Now comes
the tough part -- Picking the Contractor. I have narrowed it down to
4 "companies". Of the four, 2 specialize in Roofs/Siding, and both
have been highly recommended by people in this conference. The other
two are just general carpenters.
What I would like to have done is -- 1) Have new shingles put on OVER
my existing roof (my existing roof - 1 layer - is in good enough
condition to do this) 2) Have a ridge vent put on (there is not
adequate ventilation) 3) Have a Drip edge put on 4) Have new
aluminum/vinyl trim put on (soffit & Facia).
One Roofing Contractor will do all of the above (w/ 20 year shingles)
except for the Trim for $1970 (estimate).
The other Roofing Contractor will do all of the above for aprox $3000.
(estimate)
One General Carpenter will do the Roof (w/25 year shingles) for $1400,
and the trim (Soffit & Facia) for $800 (estimate).
The other General Carpenter will do the Roof & Facia only for $2200
(still waiting for written estimate to get the details on type of
shingles, etc)
My dilema is this --- I am worried that if I go with one of the General
Contractors with a less expensive price, I will get a less-quality job
than I would if I went with someone who specializes. I am also worried
about the insurance. I have been told that if a contractor does not
carry adequate insurance & they get injured while putting on the new
roof, they not only can go after their own insurance, but then can go
after my home insurance. I have also been told that this is the reason
why roofs are getting more expensive ---the roofers insurance is going
up daily due to cover for their disability (I guess this is one of the
professions with a high rate of disability).
I don't want to regret my decision a year from now, so I would greatly
appreciate any advise that ANY of you may give me . . . You can respond
here, or by VAXmail . . . .
Thanks
Debby
|
186.620 | | MANTHN::EDD | We could be heroes... | Wed Sep 25 1991 19:43 | 4 |
| Firstly, ask ALL of them for proof of insurance, and immediately
elliminate those who don't furnish written proof.
Edd
|
186.621 | | GIAMEM::S_JOHNSON | | Thu Sep 26 1991 14:50 | 2 |
| I'd use a roofing specialist, not a "handyman" who is probably a jack of all
trades and master of none. Even if it cost a bit more.
|
186.622 | Use a Roofer, and negotiate | ASDS::PADOVANO | | Fri Sep 27 1991 15:39 | 13 |
| I recently had roof work done, and received a wide range of estimates
for the same work when I spoke with both roofing companies and
carpenters. Roofing compamies had the best prices and most always came
out to $1.50 per square foot for 20-year shingles. This work included
adding the necessary drip edge and removing the original layer, as well
as installing the new layer. I had the old layer removed because it was
crumbling and because I've heard that leaving it on would shorten the life
of the new layer. Be sure to specify that they are to protect(i.e. cover)
shrubs or whatever around the house should you decide to have them take
off the old stuff.
You can always negotiate with these guys; it's a very competitive business.
I live in Sudbury; send me a note if you want specific references.
|
186.623 | | TOKLAS::feldman | Larix decidua, var. decify | Mon Sep 30 1991 16:38 | 13 |
| Check out their references. Then go look at the jobs they've done in the past,
and judge for yourself.
We had our GC put the roof on our garage when he built it. It just seemed like
too small a job to justify calling in specialists for all the various tasks.
We had seen his previous work, and we are quite satisfied with the roof (and
everything else).
Installing asphalt shingles just isn't that difficult a trade. It's not
like constructing a chimney where you do want a specialist with years of
experience doing that one thing.
Gary
|
186.624 | A different roof. | EMDS::PETERSON | | Mon Sep 30 1991 18:34 | 28 |
|
Right now my roof is in good shape, but I thought I'd throw this in
here, to get a little future information.
I have one of those Split Entry style homes that has a low pitch
roof.
I have the idea that a much steeper peak, some beefing up of the
joists, and a little but of planning would open up 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 mor
rooms in the house.
Has anyone in this file Done this? I don't mean finishing off an
attic, I mean replacing a (ex.) 100 degree at the peak roof with a
(i dunno) 45 degree at the peak roof-and THEN finishing it off.
This is not something I am all hot to do, I know it sounds
expensive. I was thinking 5-8 years down the road.(so I can start
saving now!)
|
186.625 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Oct 01 1991 09:57 | 6 |
| Re: .5
It shouldn't be a problem, although if you are going to all the trouble
of taking off the roof and replacing it with one of steeper pitch,
you might consider going for the full treatment and putting on a
complete second story. At the very least, you'd probably want to
think about dormers, either a full shed dormer or window dormers.
|
186.626 | Roofers vs General Contractor | VLNVAX::MNOLAN | | Mon Oct 07 1991 18:20 | 12 |
| Roofers vs General Contractors will likely deliver similar quality for
similar work. My best expierence has been with small to medium size
contractors. If your getting large differences in price, the contractor
may not understand what your asking to be done. If the contractor is
higher in price by a significan margin, the contractor may not need or
want the work. Some food for thought from one contractor I know:
"I have no argument with the man who has the lower price, for only
he knows the true value of his work."
r
Matt
|
186.249 | wanted: quick fix | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Wed Oct 16 1991 17:14 | 28 |
| I need advice on a quick fix.
We just bought a camp that has a nearly flat roof. (2' rise over
18') The roof leaks - big news ;-}. It will leak in different spots when it
rains hard, and it appears to have serious ice dam leaks as well.
In any event I am looking for a quick fix since I am hoping to tear
the place down and start over from scratch within two years. the
existing roof has at least two layers. There appears to be tar paper
strips over roll roofing. I know this because the 18" strips have
shrunk enough to expose what is underneath. I don't know what is under
the roll roofing.
The roof is subject to bombardment from acorns and branches from
nearby trees. In its present state it has numerous chips and dings from
falling debris. I swept off a generous accumulation of pine needles and
branches, some of which had been up there long enough to decompose into
a fairly nice loam. (This was right about where the worst leak was
too.)
Would it be worth my while to throw a layer of tar paper over the
whole thing? If it gets through the winter I will be satisfied, but I'd
like to see it last two more years tops.
thanks in advance,
MArk
|
186.250 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Oct 16 1991 17:23 | 7 |
| I guess I'd use 90# roll roofing. It's pretty cheap, goes on
relatively fast, and ought to last you 2 years with no trouble
even if you put it over what's there. I'd probably tear off
the existing roofing and put down the roll roofing. How large
is the roof? I assume relatively small, if it's a camp. You're
probably looking at a couple hundred bucks, tops.
|
186.251 | tar paper vs Roll roof | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Wed Oct 16 1991 17:42 | 13 |
| the roof is a little under 1000 ft square. I checked out roll roofing
at the home depot. I'd need about 20 rolls of 90# double coverage. I
don't remember the exact price but I think it was *about* $15 per roll.
My concern with roll roofing is the extra stiffness and weight will
make the job harder.
My concern with tar paper is will it be waterproof? I expect to use
fewer rolls because I will not overlap as much. I expect lower cost and
weight, and I expect an easier time forming the edges due to its
greater flexibility over roll roofing.
Mark
|
186.252 | | XCUSME::HOGGE | Dragon Slaying......No Waiting! | Wed Oct 16 1991 17:48 | 9 |
| But if the tar paper is subject to bombardment from the trees, it's
going to get tears rather quickly. AS for the extra stiffness and
weight, if you heat the roles up first, say keeping them indoors at
about 90 degrees over night, they should roll out rather easily and
quickly for the job.
FWIW.
Skip
|
186.253 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Oct 16 1991 17:56 | 3 |
| You don't need to do the 90# stuff as double coverage either - just
overlap about 4" and put a bead of roofing cement in between.
|
186.254 | should have remembered this when you stopped by | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Is the electric chair UL approved? | Wed Oct 16 1991 20:29 | 9 |
| You can get single coverage roll roofing. A roll will cover 100+ sq ft. and is
about the same price as the double coverage. On a roof as flat as yours, it
will eventually leak, but if you are sure you are going to tear the place down
in 2 years or so it will last until then.
Tar paper by itself won't last past the first storm. It wasn't intended for
this purpose.
-Mike
|
186.255 | I'd try a tarp | KAYAK::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Thu Oct 17 1991 11:45 | 6 |
| I've been driving past a house that's been 'roofed' with one of those huge blue
tarps for several years now. I thought I'd seen a 20 by 40 for less than $100
in the Northern catalogue. Any ideas how that would hold up? I got one winter
out of 4 mil plastic on my porch roof so I figure those tarps might hold up
well. You've a flat enough roof that rocks and logs would hold the tarp
flat if you didn't want to punture it by overlaying strapping.
|
186.256 | tarp might cause condensation | RAGMOP::WALTERS | | Thu Oct 17 1991 12:20 | 17 |
|
A tarp will probably work fairly well as a temporary cover on a roof
that flat. Clean the roof very well before you lay it and test for any
low spots where pools might form. Hold it down by nailing a furring
strip around the edge of the roof (assuming nothing prevents this.)
Rather than rocks or logs, cover it with stone chips which will aid
drainage/evaporation act as a thermal barrier and prevent the wind
getting under the tarp.
The main risk will be condensation forming under the tarp and keeping
the sheathing damp - could lead to rotting.
Regards,
Colin
|
186.257 | under cover | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Thu Oct 17 1991 13:49 | 14 |
|
I've used the black plastic before. If your going to restructure
the roof anyhow, so whats a little mildue.... drape it over
the sides of the roof and nail it with a furring strip to the
underside of side of the building. The place a few old pine
boards on the top just to keep if from looking like a dome house.
If you should happen to get a hole. make a patch out of the left
over, slap a little tar on the spot and place the plastic over it.
The plastic is cheeper than the tarp. I seem to get about 2 years
out of thoes blue ones and thats all. Atleast you can reuse the
plastic on the wood pile or something.....
JD
|
186.258 | We did it! | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Mon Oct 21 1991 17:59 | 61 |
| Well we did it. I got some helpers and put down a new roof. I've got
the aches and pains to prove it. I also learned a few things.
I decided to take Mike Moroney's advice (thanks Mike) and go with a
single coverage roof. I did not remove the old roof which was about two
layers. We put down approx 1000 sq ft in about four hours.
The old roof was double coverage roll roofing. Someone had covered
it with some kind of sealant. Bad idea. The sealant did not grip the
gravel that they use to surface the roll roofing very well. It had
eventually blistered and formed pockets that trapped water between the
sealant and the old roll roof. I don't think I will *ever* put any
sealant on a roof like that. It doesn't work and just makes it that
much harder to find the source of the leaks.
As we progressed I kept looking at the stack that was jutting from
the center off the roof. It was left over from when the previous owners
had a wood stove, and was no longer of any use. Someone had jammed a
cap into the open end of this stack to keep out the rain. All of a
sudden it hit me, that was the source of my worst leak! The cap was
formed from some kind of flashing. Instead of putting it on the outside
of the stack it was jammed *inside* the stack. The top of this cap kept
the rain from falling directly down into the stack, but and rain
blowing up against the side of this cap could easily run down into the
stack!
One the rain got down inside, it would land on the Styrofoam ceiling
tiles that they had put over the livingroom ceiling. From there it ran
down to the wall and proceded to do very little good for the structural
integrity of the building. I *will* fix this problem very soon!
THINGS I LEARNED:
1.) It is better to buy a little too much and have to return the extra,
than to run out of materials in the middle of a job.
2.) Don't forget to have paint thinner on hand when working with Lap
Cement. (Arraugh! it gets *everywhere*!!!!)
3.) Drink plenty of fluids! We had a perfect 70 degree day but we still
got unbelievably thirsty working up on the roof even though no one ever
broke a sweat.
4.) Don't forget to buy collars to place around pipes that stick
through your roof.
5.) secure your ladders. You never know when a strong wind might come up
and blow them down, and narrowly miss your future sister-in-law.
6.) Make sure that you have some real friends to help out. Roll roofing
really needs at least two people to help position the material.
7.) Be carefull! Especially when breathing in the fumes from the lap
cement! We couldn't have asked for better "ventilation" than we had up
there on the roof. Still, we found ourselves getting a little spacey,
especially when nailing near places where there was fresh lap cement.
Now let's see how long it all lasts.......
Mark
|
186.459 | Vent pipe through roof | ELWOOD::LANE | | Mon Nov 11 1991 14:02 | 28 |
| I checked the index and surprizingly - no mention of this...
I need to put a plumbing vent pipe up through an asphalt roof:
.
. |
|
| .
| . <- roof line
| .
! | !----------
! | !
! | ! <- 2x4 outside wall
|
vent
I expect that the vent will be one and a half inch black plastic pipe. At the
point where the pipe must go through (in the attic), I have about 5-6" of
space between the top of the wall and the bottom of the roofing planks. I was
planning on running a long drill bit up through the whole thing and then use
a hole saw from both the top and the bottom.
My concern is sealing the joint on the roof.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Mickey.
|
186.460 | Get a flashing kit | GIAMEM::JELENIEWSKI | | Mon Nov 11 1991 14:40 | 5 |
| I don't know where you are, but Somerville Lumber carries a
flashing kit for that use. you will have to lift some shingles,
etc, but they work well. If you don't live near a Som. Lmbr. try
a good building supply house.
|
186.461 | To elaborate a little . . . | LJOHUB::BOYLAN | | Mon Nov 18 1991 16:08 | 31 |
| First, and perhaps most important - check your plumbing code!!! 1 1/2" sounds small
(damn, I wish I had a complete set of code books next to my workstation! :-). If
I remember correctly (and I may not), you may need to use at least 2" pipe and
black plastic may not be approved for exposure to sunlight.
Some plumbing codes allow the use of smaller pipe for venting, but require you
to use an expansion to a larger size of pipe which goes through the roof, to
prevent the vent from being blocked.
Second, just be aware that using a hole saw on the top of a slanted roof won't
give you the size hole you think you're getting! You may need to use a size
or two larger than the diameter of the pipe.
Finally, "GIAMEM::JELENIEWSKI" is right - lumber yards and plumbing suppliers have
a part that's just what you need - vent pipe flashing. In the old days, it was a
metal plate with a funny-shaped cone stamped into it to fit around the pipe. I
discovered when we re-did the bathrooms last year that the newfangled item is a
metal flashing plate with a rubber boot that fits tightly around the pipe. The pipe
just fits through the boot, and you seal the flashing plate between the shingles
with roofing cement. (I found that DAP packs roofing cement in handy tubes for the
caulking gun!)
In my case, I had a plumber do the piping (we did two bathrooms with a brand-new
soil stack, toilet, sink, and shower/tub in one, toilet, sink, shower stall, and
claw-foot ("essex") tub in the other). If I had tried it myself, I'd still be
doing the plumbing. Of course, since plumbers don't climb ladders, you-know-who
was up on the steep roof putting the flashing around the vent pipe!!
Have fun!
- - Steve
|
186.462 | | ELWOOD::LANE | | Mon Nov 18 1991 17:34 | 21 |
| >First, and perhaps most important - check your plumbing code!!!
>1 1/2" sounds small ...
I know a plumber in town that will know the answers to that.
>Second, just be aware that using a hole saw on the top of a slanted roof won't
>give you the size hole you think you're getting! You may need to use a size
>or two larger than the diameter of the pipe.
Either that or drill vertically... :-)
>Finally, "GIAMEM::JELENIEWSKI" is right - lumber yards and plumbing suppliers
>have a part that's just what you need - vent pipe flashing.
I have no idea why this didn't occur to me - thanks.
>Have fun!
Yeah, right.
Thanks to both of you,
Mickey.
|
186.80 | Which style and why | KAHALA::DUNTON | | Mon Dec 02 1991 12:54 | 16 |
|
Hoping this is the best place for this... Old Garage with old
sagging, leaking roof. Garage is currently 20' wide x 36' long.
I'm interested in widening it to 24'. Considering putting a
barn style (Gambrel?) roof on it instead of standard pitched
roof. Was wondering pros & cons of either style roof. Costs
of either style - obvious and hidden. How about the longevity
of either - does the Gambrel 'wear out' sooner ? Why / why not..?
With a standard pitched roof, I'm going to need supports in the
center of the roof, will I need supports with the gambrel ? or
can I make the 'upstairs' open..? This is a springtime project,
but I'm planning for it now, any other suggestions will be appreciated.
thanks,
K-
|
186.81 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Dec 02 1991 14:10 | 22 |
| Why do you think you need supports in the center of the roof if it's a
standard pitched roof? 24' isn't all that wide a roof. I'm not sure
what you're thinking of.
The gambrel will give you more useful loft space; that's its main/only
advantage that I can think of. However, if you put on a relatively
steep regular roof (10:12 or 12:12), you'll get quite a bit. The
gambrel will be more expensive, I imagine, because of more complexity
in framing. It will also be more difficult to shingle. Not that any
of this would cause insurmountable problems or expense; people build
gambrel roofs all the time. A more steeply pitched roof lasts slightly
longer than an flatter roof, so the steeply pitched part of the gambrel
might marginally outlast a regular roof...but the flatter top of the
gambrel might wear out slightly sooner. I wouldn't worry about longevity
of either style.
Personally, I think gambrel roofs on garages are often extremely badly
proportioned and ugly, but that's just me.
If you're widening the garage to 24' and rebuilding the roof...what's
left??? Sounds to me as though you're basically going to be building
a new garage.
|
186.82 | just looking for pro's/con's/ideas | ARCHER::DUNTON | | Tue Dec 03 1991 12:18 | 39 |
186.83 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Dec 03 1991 15:38 | 12 |
| Opps - I thought you were making it longer as well as wider. If
just wider, yes, you get to keep three walls.
If your present roof is sagging with 2x6's...that suggests to
me that they should have used 2x8's, perhaps. Are the side
walls bulging? Maybe the present garage needs more cross ties?
You should be able to build a perfectly fine standard roof covering
a 24' width, assuming the materials are sized correctly and the
framing is done correctly.
Why keep the same roof pitch, if you're building a whole new roof
anyway?
|
186.84 | Roof sag & some ideas | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Tue Dec 03 1991 15:42 | 37 |
| The biggest reasons I know of for a roof to sag are either that the rafters
weren't sized large enough, or there wasn't a strong enough tie between the
opposite walls. The weight of the roof, snow/wind load, etc. tend to make
the two sides push apart. Collar ties about a 1/3 down the height of the
roof help stop this, as do joists that connect the walls the roof sits on.
I have a friend whose garage roof is sagging badly, and he has all of these
problems. The rafters are, I think, 2x4's and the collar ties tore out of
the rafters. My own house has a roof that has sunk a bit over 65 years.
The collar ties (if any) are hidden in an inaccessible attic space, but there
certainly isn't much to tie the walls together where the roof sits on them.
24' is a standard house width, so any competent carpenter should have no
problem building a sturdy roof in that width. NOTE when calculating the
height of the attic area that you need at least 6'6" to the bottoms of the
collar ties, if people are supposed to comfortably walk around up there.
You can't get that with a 5:12 roof slope, but maybe you can with an 8:12
slope -- I haven't ever worked with that slope.
On the subject of gambrel roofs, I second the comment that they are often
done with very bad proportions. Unfortunately, I don't know the right
proportions -- I worked out the roof slopes on my garage from drawings --
and wonder of wonders, when we built it, it actually looked like the drawings!
You could try buying the plans for a gambrel roofed house, maybe $5 at a
home center, and adjust them to suit your taste. Or go out looking at
old barns -- that's where the gambrel roof comes from architecturally.
When calculating the length of your rafters, don't forget the eaves.
Tastes differ, but I feel that all buildings should have good wide eaves,
at least 16" and preferably much more. The eaves keep rain water from
splashing up against the side of the building, and keep most rain from
even touching the siding, which will prolong its life enormously. Most
builders like to build without eaves because it's quicker, but I think
that's a false economy. Besides, I like the look of eaves.
Enjoy,
Larry
|
186.85 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | DCU Elections -- Vote for a change... | Wed Dec 04 1991 11:03 | 26 |
| Re .61: Gambrel roof
. On my gambrel roof, the slope at A is
. A 22.5 degrees, or 6/12. The slope at B is
. 67.5 degrees, or 24/12. I think these are
. C fairly standard; what really makes or
breaks a gambrel roof are the details.
. For example, some builders will simply wrap
B shingles around the break at C; a much
. better look is attained by continuing the
top roof line just a little past C (ie,
. leave the top rafters square rather than
trimming them to fit the slope of the
lower roof; finish with a board across the
edges of the rafters, with continuous
soffit venting across the top; this creates a drip edge onto the lower
roof).
Another important gambrel detail is to maintain the line of the roof,
both back and front. On gambrel houses, it's customary to include a
full dormer across the back. On mine, the dormer stops a foot or two
short of either end of the house. Besides adding interesting interior
detail, this maintains the gambrel roof line, so that viewed from the
side it doesn't look like the roof is sliding off the front of the
house. (This is also very important, IMHO, for capes.)
|
186.463 | Roof condensation, help please! | YOUWOT::BLACK | Martin Black | Thu Dec 12 1991 08:54 | 18 |
|
Hi,
I live in an old house which has been improved over the years.
Amongst other things a new roof, properly put on with felt under etc,
has been put on.
To my horror I've just had a look up in the attic and discovered
condensation on the inside of the roof felt. The UK is in the grip of
a cold spell at the moment with temperatures not rising above freezing
and -8 to -10 at night.
I presume cold roof, warmish loft causing condensation. Has anybody
else experienced this and what was the solution. I presume putting vent
tiles in the roof?
/Martin.
|
186.464 | _Everyone_ has this problem! | ASD::DIGRAZIA | | Thu Dec 12 1991 12:07 | 13 |
|
Look around this file. You'll find bijillions of roof notes.
Is a "loft" an English attic? Sounds to me as if you need a
ridge vent, i.e. you have to get the warm, wet air out of your
attic and replace it with cold, dry air -- a familiar problem.
How can you see the inside of the roof felt? When you're inside
your loft, isn't there wood sheathing between you and the felt?
Can you open windows?
Regards, Robert.
|
186.465 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Thu Dec 12 1991 12:50 | 22 |
| You might want to try ASICS::DIY, which is the UK equivalent of this
file. Those folks would be much more likely to know about UK building
practices.
You speak of "vent tiles" so I suspect you have a slate/tile roof on
battens? That type of construcition, while not unheard of in the US,
is rather uncommon. Most of us won't know much about it or what can
or cannot be done with a roof like that.
But basically, the solution remains the same no matter what kind of
roof you have; you need ventilation so the moisture can get carried
outside. Possibly in the early days of your house the roof consisted
only of tile/slate with no felt, so the roof itself was permeable to
air and ventilated itself. Adding felt effectively sealed the roof
and is trapping the moisture.
Another option might be to install a vapor barrier between the loft
and the living space so the warm, moist air from the living space
can't get to the loft. You would also want to then add insulation
on top of the vapor barrier, however, so the vapor barrier would stay
relatively warm and moisture wouldn't just condense on the underside
of a cold vapor barrier, possibly soaking your ceilings!
|
186.466 | My attic was the warmest room in the house.. | AKOCOA::CWALTERS | | Thu Dec 12 1991 12:51 | 66 |
|
Martin - you probably want the DIY notesfile in the UK -- although
the problem is common the suggested solutions are different for
typical UK roof and typical US roof. Having renovated a 150 year-old
stone (16" thick walls) and slate cottage, I'm familiar with your
problem. You need to:
o stop warm air getting into the attic from the house.
o equalise temperature between the attic and the exterior
First, don't underestimate the risks if you have lathe & plaster
ceilings. The are full of hygroscopic salts which soak up the
moisture and will stain, show efflorescence or worse - collapse
one night while you are sleeping (yes, this did happen to me!)
There are probably no existing ridge vents or vents in the gable
ends (if you have them) Older houses did not have felt underlay and
tended to rely on the slate/ tile roof "breathing" plus a substantial
gap between the barge board (to which the roof gutters are attached)
and the tiles. In the winter months, heat from the brick chimneys
also helped to prevent condensation damage.
Recently, as people have been re-roofing older houses and adding loft
insulation, they have not been leaving adequate ventilation. Sometimes
the new felt is left to hang over into the gutters, preventing air from
flowing freely under the tiles. Blown fibre insulation is the worse
culprit. Installers are supposed to insert a stopper between each
pair of rafters a few inches from the eaves to prevent the fibre from
blocking the airflow.
Also, Improvements in windows and doors means that more warm moist
air finds its way into the attic and condenses on the underside of
the felt. Finally, I'm making the assumption that you have not done
anything to vent air directly to the attic such as a bathroom vent
fan
Start by checking the attic insulation. British Gas or your local
elec. board will supply an insulation package free. Do things like:
Go into the attic on a bright day and switch off the light.
You should see dim light coming in under the eaves. If you
see nothing then ensure that the existing insulation is not blocking
the flow of air at the soffits or barge-boards.
(this is the most likely cause).
If you have a gable-end, install a louvred screend vent.
this is easier than a ridge vent.
Insulate the back of the attic door with a block of polystyrene.
Make sure there is a good moisture barrier under the insulation.
Check where all pipes pass through the ceiling and through
the roof. It's not unusual for these to be leaking moist
air straight into the attic, especially where they come from
bathrooms or airing cabinets.
Ridge vent will be your last resort as it's most expensive and does
nothing to solve the basic insulation problem. If you still get
a problem after that, then *very possibly* there could be air
coming from the wall cavities - get the walls insulated.
Regards,
Colin
|
186.467 | Loft - Attic | YOUWOT::BLACK | Martin Black | Thu Dec 12 1991 12:58 | 12 |
|
Robert,
Yes a loft is an English attic, thanks for the advise I'll
investigate getting a ridge vent fitted.
The loft is not a room as such, more a loft space. In most houses it
becomes a dumping ground, much like your 'Lumber' rooms I believe.
Thanks for your help,
/Martin.
|
186.468 | | EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Mon Dec 16 1991 11:25 | 4 |
| Look at note 1111.104 for notes with the keyword VENTILATION. There are tons
of notes about dealing with attic ventilation.
Paul
|
186.190 | rubber roof questions | ERLANG::CHIU | Dah Ming Chiu | Wed Jan 08 1992 20:20 | 9 |
| I am about to contract a roofer to put up a rubber roof for my 2-family
house. I have asked a few roofers for estimates. It seems the cost
nowadays is around $2 to $2.5 per sq foot covered. They usually give either
a 10 or 20 year guarantee also (assuming the roofer is still around).
For those who know about these rubber roofs, could you comment on
1) Is it the better technology for flat roof?
2) Is the above cost roughly right?
3) Is there much difference between 045 and 060 thickness. I get the same
guarantee for both thicknesses, but the cost difference is $300-$400.
|
186.191 | Call the manufacturer on the warranty | SOJU::RESIDE | No Parking Except for Bob | Thu Jan 09 1992 11:46 | 18 |
| 1. Every roofer (5 bids) I had bid on my job said rubber membrane was
the way to go.
2. Your cost is considerably less than what I paid in Nov 91 for
approx 200 sq ft. My cost is more complicated becuase I had
board rot underneath that needed to be fixed also so it's hard
to compare.
3. Caution... call the manufacturer's rep regarding your warranty.
I am almost positive you will only get 10 years. The 20 year
warranty is for commercial buildings (2 family is not considered
commercial). You should get a separate warranty from the roofer
pertaining to labor (probably 5 years). Is this RPI? I have
the rep's number if it is.
4. Regarding .045 vs .060, are you going to put anything on top of
the membrane (ie deck)? One recommended .060 to me and the others
all recommended .045.
Good Luck,
Bob
|
186.192 | | ERLANG::CHIU | Dah Ming Chiu | Thu Jan 09 1992 13:47 | 33 |
| re .28 Thanks for your answer.
> 2. Your cost is considerably less than what I paid in Nov 91 for
> approx 200 sq ft.
My cost is based on an approx area of 1300 sq foot, which includes some
short walls along three sides of the roof. Also there will be no insulation
between the rubber roof and the current roof, but a 1/2 inch "recovery board"
(whatever that is). The $2 number is based on the thickness of 045.
> 3. Caution... call the manufacturer's rep regarding your warranty.
> I am almost positive you will only get 10 years. The 20 year
> warranty is for commercial buildings (2 family is not considered
> commercial). You should get a separate warranty from the roofer
> pertaining to labor (probably 5 years). Is this RPI? I have
> the rep's number if it is.
None of the roofers told me which manufacturer the rubber roof is from.
I thought the guarantee is from the roof himself. One roofer memtioned
a 10 year warrantee and another said a 20 yr warrantee.
From your answer, it sounds like the guarantee is actually from the
manufacturer rather than from the roofer. I would call the roofers to
find out. What are the typical manufacturers of this stuff?
> 4. Regarding .045 vs .060, are you going to put anything on top of
> the membrane (ie deck)? One recommended .060 to me and the others
> all recommended .045.
It's a roof without stair access, so I am not likely to put a deck on it,
even in the future. I am mainly interested in whether the additional
thickness is going to make it last longer (enough so to warrant the additional
cost). From your answer, it occurs to me that I can ask the manufacturer
about this.
|
186.193 | manufacturer warranties the roof | SOJU::RESIDE | No Parking Except for Bob | Fri Jan 10 1992 13:42 | 15 |
| I took the time to get several bids then I chose the most reputable
roofer (my estimation) and negotiated the price down a bit using the
other bids as justification (I think they expec this). It is
too difficult to extrapolate a cost from my bill that is just
attributed to the installation of the membrane.
Yes, your waranty will be from the manufacturer. Call them for
details. RPI, Goodyear, and Uniroyal are three that I know of. Also
most manufacturers will only warranty authorized and trained roofers.
You should get a labor warranty from the roofer. I'm almost certain
the most you will get is ten years. Talk to the manufacturer's rep
about the thickness.
Good Luck
|
186.86 | | ESOA12::GRILLOJ | John Grillo @ Decus | Mon Apr 13 1992 18:32 | 4 |
| I had my roof reshingled with Bird Windseal 80 shingles in August of
last year and noticed traces of the asphalt next to my downspouts. Is
this normal? I always thought that was a tell-tale sign that you need
new shingles? Should I call the roofer back?
|
186.87 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Apr 13 1992 19:58 | 3 |
| This is normal - some of the granules will wash off at first.
Steve
|
186.88 | Saved again | ESOA11::GRILLOJ | John Grillo @ Decus | Wed Apr 15 1992 17:09 | 2 |
| Thanks Steve, Now I can take the Early Retirement package. :-) I will
miss this part of DEC when I go in June.
|
186.288 | Nails Popping Through Shingles?? | AKOCOA::SELIG | | Fri May 15 1992 20:18 | 15 |
| We had our roof re-shingled 3 years ago. The roof was stripped before
nailing down the new shingles. I have noticed that nails are starting
to push back through the shingle surface in random places.
o Can anybody offer an explanation of why the nails are backing out.
o What to do....remove nail and put a new one in another spot under
same tab? Or drive original nail back in?
o Is this indicative of bad workmanship by the roofer...or a normal
failure??
Thanks for any suggestions,
Jonathan
|
186.289 | | CSC32::GORTMAKER | Whatsa Gort? | Fri May 15 1992 22:07 | 9 |
| Did the roofers strip the roof and clean the old nails too or just
strip the shingles? Sounds like they might have left behind the old
nails that diden't come out with the shingles.
Is the roof decking plywood or solid stock? Plywood dosen't hold nails
as well but either way I can't imagine the nails ever backing out on
their own.
-j
|
186.290 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 Pole 30D | Mon May 18 1992 14:58 | 8 |
| Are the nails long enough to go completely through the roof deck?
If not, I think that contributes to their working their way out.
I think it's also a function of the cheap nails they use now. The
"electro-galvanized" roofing nails have very smooth shanks compared
to the old hot-dip galvanized nails. I've found the made-in-Korea
nails to be especially cheap (as in not very good). You can still
get pretty good shingle nails from Canada, if you look hard enough.
|
186.291 | Some guesses based on a little experience .. | AHIKER::EARLY | Bob Early, Digital Services | Mon May 18 1992 16:33 | 27 |
| re: 1588.11 Patching Nail Holes on a Roof 11 of 11
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> as well but either way I can't imagine the nails ever backing out on
> their own.
I've seen nails 'backing out' both on my roof and on my siding.
For the roof, I think it has something to do with either the nails being
the cracks in the boards. FOr the siding, I thinks its due to the 'flexing'
of the house (and maybe that's for the shingles, too,) for these older
houses. Another prospect may be nails too short to hold properly.
Are these the cheap imported Aluminum nails or the zinc coated steel American
nails ? One thing I've noticed about the Aliminum nails is how smooth they are,
and just may not hold as well as the rougher zinc coated roofing nails.
I've seen nails pulling out on very old roofs (more than 20 years old);
but I just assumed it was due to age. Under some conditions, the zinc in the
nail can react electro-chemically, but I don't think that would cause it
to pull out.
Although I make no claim to being a roofing expert, I laid my
first courses with my Dad when I was 13, and have been putting shingles
on periodiclly since then.
Bob
|
186.424 | 3:12 ... 12:3 ... whatever ! | MILPND::STUART | | Tue Jun 30 1992 15:58 | 5 |
|
I bought a roof window that says minimum 3:12 or 12:3 (I forget)
pitch. Does this mean it should rise 12 inches in 3 feet ??
|
186.425 | | MANTHN::EDD | Turn 4 (Bang) Turn 4 (Bang) | Tue Jun 30 1992 16:03 | 10 |
| It means 3 feet up, after 12 feet linear...
.-----
. ^
. 3
...........__v__
| |
|<--12--->|
Edd
|
186.426 | Steeeeep! | XK120::SHURSKY | What's the "reorg du jour". | Wed Jul 01 1992 12:43 | 4 |
| Or twelve feet after three linear. That's pretty steep even for New England.
:-) :-)
Stan
|
186.427 | | MANTHN::EDD | Turn 4 (Bang) Turn 4 (Bang) | Wed Jul 01 1992 12:49 | 5 |
| ...but since we're talking a minimum pitch...
I believe 3:12 would also be considered a 25% pitch...
Edd
|
186.605 | fascia wood | TOSKI::ODENWALDER | Ode | Mon Jul 13 1992 19:20 | 10 |
|
Am replacing some #2 grade fascia on the rake of the roof and wanted to
know if anyone had success with #1 grade pressure treated wood? Is pt
wood even necessary when painting will cover the other choice?
Thanks,
Ode
|
186.606 | Try Cedar instead of pine | SEEPO::MARCHETTI | In Search of the Lost Board | Tue Jul 14 1992 14:19 | 8 |
| PT really isn't necessary for a fascia that will be painted. What you
might want to try is cedar instead of pine that is typically used.
Cedar holds paint far better than pine (it's also more expensive). I
have pine trim that needs scraping, priming, and painting about every
4-5 years. My cedar siding is approaching 8 years since the last paint
job, with minor peeling.
Bob
|
186.89 | Black Paper | VERGA::MACDONALD | Home of Digital Realtime Pubs | Fri Jul 17 1992 19:04 | 4 |
| What is the purpose of laying down the black paper on a roof before
shingling? I have seen some roofers use the paper and some not. Looking
at the material, it doesn't seen to have any added value other than to
provide alignment lines for the shingles.
|
186.90 | Not worth skipping! | MANTHN::EDD | You just need therapy... | Sat Jul 18 1992 22:33 | 8 |
| If installed properly (from the bottom up), it also provides an added
layer of protection against leaks, especially those caused by wind-
driven rain.
It's quite a bit heavier than "paper". A more common description is
"roofer's felt".
Edd
|
186.91 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Mon Jul 20 1992 12:03 | 7 |
| Re: .68
Cheap insurance. $10 per 400 sq feet.
It also has lines on it, to help laying shingles.
Marc H.
|
186.92 | | SENDAK::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Mon Jul 20 1992 12:29 | 12 |
| IMO, there is no reason to use it unless you need a temporary cover on
the roof to keep the rain out before you can get the shingles on.
(This from somebody who in the past was a strong believer in roofing
paper under shingles.)
I doubt that the paper would be of much use in keeping out water after
having zillions of shingle nails put through it. If your roof is in
such poor shape that it is likely to leak...fix it! I wouldn't count
on roofing paper under the shingles to save me.
I've never found that the lines came anywhere near where I needed them
to help line up shingles.
|
186.93 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Is the electric chair UL approved? | Tue Jul 21 1992 02:49 | 7 |
| Tearing up an old leaky roof I noticed a few spots where the old tar paper was
wet from a small leak in the roofing (roll roofing) and the wood underneath is
dry. So it appears to me it is able to prevent damage from tiny minor leaks
but has no effect on major leaks. I don't know if this is the real reason for
its existance or not.
-Mike
|
186.94 | ex | XCUSME::MALONE | I'm the Newest NRA | Tue Jul 21 1992 04:48 | 14 |
| I have a roof that is leaking. It's over my breeze way/garage. The
other roof is only 5 years old. This leaking roof was only patched or
re-tarred by my father-in-law. It's a flat roof with a little pitch to
the rear of the building. It leaks in different places. I don't think
re-tarring it does any good any more. If I strip off the tar that is on
it now, what do I have to do to re-roof it???
Do I just put paper down and tar it??? I'm not sure what I have to do
to stop it from leaking.
thanks for any help
dan
|
186.95 | | SENDAK::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Tue Jul 21 1992 13:17 | 12 |
| re: .73
I'd tear it all off and start over. For a near flat roof you'll
want, I expect, "90-pound mineral surface roll roofing."
Get the rolls of roofing, and the directions on how to install it will
be on the wrapping. The lumberyard can probably set you straight on
just what you need. Basically, you roll out a strip, use shingle nails
to attach the edges, then roll out another strip overlapping the nails
and seal the edge with roofing cement. I haven't done this for a LONG
time so I am pretty hazy on the details. It's not hard though, and it's
pretty cheap.
You'll probably want to get a new metal drip edge, etc. too....
|
186.96 | it's a %^&#@ pain... | RAMBLR::MORONEY | Is the electric chair UL approved? | Wed Jul 22 1992 03:11 | 18 |
| I'm doing this now.
What you want to do is round up a bunch of people who owe you favors/can be
bribed with beer/etc., make a sacrifice to the rain god to hold off long
enough to do the job, strip the old roof, be sure to pull all the old nails,
(optionally?) add roofing paper (see previous replies in this topic), and
install asphalt roll roofing. This isn't difficult, unroll it starting
with the lower edge, then the next layer overlapping the first following
manufacturers recommendation for overlap and nailing. You 'paint' the
overlapped area with lap cement to seal it.
If your roof has _very_ little slope (less than 2" per foot) use 'double
coverage' roofing. This type overlaps the previous layer by more than half
its width. "Single coverage" overlaps the previous layer by a couple inches.
Single coverage rolls are a little more expensive each, but each covers almost
twice the area of 'double coverage' so is cheaper to install. The 'double
coverage' is a better roof.
-Mike
|
186.97 | | LUNER::KELLYJ | Think for yourself | Wed Aug 12 1992 19:56 | 18 |
| Loath to write a new note, this seemed like a good spot for a couple of
questions relating to reroofing:
1. I'm planning to roof my 40 year old Cape. Is this typically a job
requiring a building permit? I live in Maynard, Mass.
2. Any comments on using staples as opposed to roofing nails to secure
the shingles? I'm planning to rent a pneumatic nailer or stapler.
3. Roof decking: I suspect that the deck consists of boards laid
across the rafters, as opposed to sheet (plywood, waferboard, ...)
decking. If this is the case, would folks recommend I add
decking? Like most DIY'ers, quality ranks (slightly) ahead of cost
as a requirment, so I'm not averse to spending the extra cash if
there's a decent reason.
Thanks,
John
|
186.98 | | MANTHN::EDD | Nimis capsicum | Wed Aug 12 1992 20:12 | 6 |
| I don't know about a building permit, but you should also check out
what it's going to cost you to buy a permit to dump the old shingles.
Big bux...
Edd
|
186.99 | permit required more than likely | SENIOR::HAMBURGER | Life is a Do_It_Yourself project! | Thu Aug 13 1992 12:13 | 12 |
|
Building permits are generally required in MASS for reroofing a house,
it is considered a major renovation type repair. Dumping old shingles as
noted will cost you, you probably can get it wrapped up into the price of
the small dumpster you will need.
the decking need not be replaced unless you see 1) signs of
deterioration, such as rot, soft and spongy boards, etc, or 2) indications
that the old boards will not support a new roof. If you are stripping the
old, then it should support a new without a problem.
Vic
|
186.100 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Thu Aug 13 1992 12:31 | 4 |
| Permit, quite likely.
If the roof boards are solid, they'll be fine. A board or two along
the eaves may be rotten, but you can replace boards individually as
needed. Personally, I think boards are better than plywood for a roof.
|
186.101 | Emotionally attached to the idea of a plywood deck | LUNER::KELLYJ | Think for yourself | Thu Aug 13 1992 13:21 | 22 |
| Okay, a call to the building inspector is in order.
Steve, I'm interested in why you think boards are better than plywood
or other underlayment for the roof deck. Is due to potential
delamination with moisture? What materials are commonly used as
underlayment, besides AC exterior plywood?
More questions [ I think this is a trend =8^) ]:
I'm going to use this opportunity to install a ridge and soffit
vents. I've read in these notes that folks removed the soffit
board(s) and ripped off a two inch slice and then re-installed the
soffit, possibly with an insect/rodent barrier over the soffit vents.
It appears on my Cape the fascia boards are installed after the soffit
boards; is this typical? Does one usually have to remove the fascia
to get at the soffit?
What about ripping a lengthwise opening while the soffit is in place,
by carefully setting the depth on my saw and perhaps providing a guide
fence to prevent a drunken cut?
|
186.102 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Thu Aug 13 1992 13:36 | 19 |
| Why I prefer boards...
For one thing, it's easier to replace a single board (along the
eaves, typically) than it is to tear up a whole sheet of plywood.
Also cheaper.
Delamination can be another problem with plywood, if it gets wet.
Plywood, because of the layers of glue, is virtually 100% waterproof,
so if you do get any water backup under shingles from ice dams, it
will stay there. When I stripped my roof a few years ago in May,
I found water under the edge shingles on the portion of my roof that has
a plywood deck. The portion of the roof that has boards was drier.
The cracks between the boards give a chance for trapped water to
escape, and the boards themselves are more porous to water, eventually,
than is a glued-up sheet of plywood.
I also think that boards hold nails better than plywood.
|
186.544 | | KAHALA::FULTZ | ED FULTZ | Mon Oct 12 1992 14:14 | 14 |
| Can someone recommend a good slate roof contractor? I have a 92 year old house
that has a slate roof. The attic is completely uninsulated. The roof is
a hip-roof, so this adds some complications. I want to have a contractor
come in and put the proper ventilation in that will allow me to insulate
the attic. I have had one contractor try to talk me into putting in
turbine vents. I absolutely do not want these. I have seen a hip-roof
with some kind of rectangular vent. But it was an asphalt roof.
So, any suggestions of contractors? I live in Chelmsford Mass.
I can insulate most of the attic without any ventilation being added. But,
the eaves (the parts where the hips join) are my area of concern.
Ed..
|
186.103 | which shingle? | PINCK::GREEN | Long Live the Duck!!! | Thu Nov 12 1992 13:36 | 17 |
|
I am having my roof reshingled and have a question about the different
brands of shingles. Originally, my contract was for 25 year
Bird shingles. I didn't really like any of the colours available but
was ready to compromise on one of them. Then, my roofer mentioned that
there is a 25 year GAF shingle that he thinks I will like and will
bring it over today.
So, are one of these shingles much better then the other? Am I better
of getting a colour that I do not love with the Bird shingle?
Amy
BTW: I have a hip roof and the house is down hill from the street.
You see a lot of roof on this house...
|
186.104 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Nov 12 1992 13:56 | 6 |
| I used a GAF "old wood" color 30 year shingle. Wasn't the standard
3 tab....used an overlapping design called????? Anyway, the shingles
came four bundles per square (100 sq feet). Cost around $70 per square
and look great!
Marc H.
|
186.105 | | MANTHN::EDD | She was a diesel fixer... | Thu Nov 12 1992 14:37 | 5 |
| I'm curious as to just what colors PINCK::GREEN is interested in.
;^)
Edd
|
186.106 | GAF is fine | VERGA::WELLCOME | Okay Bill...now what? | Thu Nov 12 1992 14:46 | 10 |
| GAF shingles are fine. I suspect that a shingle rated for 25 years
from GAF will last just as long as a 25-year shingle from Bird.
I wouldn't worry much about brand as long as it's a reputable one,
and GAF certainly is.
Bird also sells a 30-year 3-tab shingle, if you're interested. I
used them on my house. At the time, they were the only 30-year
"standard" shingles I could find. There are 30-year rated "designer"
shingles available (like .83 used), but they are significantly more
money.
|
186.107 | | PINCK::GREEN | Long Live the Duck!!! | Thu Nov 12 1992 14:56 | 15 |
|
Thanks all... now I just have to wait and see if I like the
GAF shingle...
re: .84
>>I'm curious as to just what colors PINCK::GREEN is interested in.
If I wanted either pink or green, I believe certain members of
my household would revolt! :-)
I just want a simple dark grey... not black, not brown, not full
of gold speckles...
Amy
|
186.108 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Nov 12 1992 17:24 | 11 |
| RE: .85
"Designer Shingles"????? Gad...........
Come on now....
:)
:)
:)
Marc H.
|
186.109 | Pink & Green! Not up noth heya! No sa! | CGVAX2::RUSSELL | | Wed Nov 18 1992 23:02 | 5 |
| Ah Yup! Must be one ov dem Florida types, dontcha know! :)-
Alan
|
186.469 | Want to extend roof with a new pitch | EDWIN::CHIQUOINE | AFoolAndHisMoneyAreSoonElected | Mon Jan 04 1993 15:03 | 35 |
| I'm building a greenhouse off the side of a cape and need to change the
pitch of the last few feet of the cape's roof to meet that of the
greenhouse. (Cheap character cell drawing follows)
\
\ <---Existing roof
\
\
\---
\ --- <---New roof
\ ---
\ |___
\ | ___ <---Greenhouse roof
___
...
The new roof itself is a 4:12 pitch, the cape is 12:12.
The new roof is only about a foot of surface area, just enough
to get the the pitch up to allow a 2x6 header for the greenhouse.
The existing roof is asphalt shingling over stress-skins.
For ease of installation, I'm tempted to attach a few wedges
to the existing roof, cover with plywood, and then shingle and
flash under the existing shingles. My concern is that I should
remove all existing shingling under the wedges first, as well
as worrying about a good way to securely attach this new roof
to the stress-skins partical board surface. Any advice on
whether or not I need to remove shingles or how best to attach
the new roof?
Thanks,
Ken
|
186.470 | ice dams? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Wed Jan 06 1993 12:16 | 32 |
|
As it's a cape, I assume that you are up here in the Northeast - correct
me if wrong.
I'd check this with a builder before you do it. My gut feel is that the
dead airspace under the roof extension would cause problems.
Condensation could form under it and soak into the waferboard causing
it to swell up & rot. Also, ice dams could form because of the
insulating effect of the dead air. This would allow meltwater to
back up under your proposed new flashing.
The bottom 3-4 feet of a roof normally has a horizontal strip of roll
roofing right across the width of the roof to prevent this meltwater
reaching the sheathing (and leaking through) if it backs up under the
shingles.
You'll probably need to strip back the old shingles, but you *may* be
able to leave the original sheathing in place and saw some holes in it
for air circulation. However, you will need to join in a section of roll
roofing to keep the ice dam barrier intact.
The other thing that might force you to remove the existing sheathing
is the method of connecting the new section of roof. Even though it's
only a small change in pitch, the extension rafters should probably be
nailed or bolted into the *sides* of existing rafters. Local code will
apply here.
Regards,
Colin
|
186.471 | Raising a Roof? | SVCRUS::DALTON | | Wed Mar 10 1993 15:45 | 9 |
| Does anyone have any experience with contractors in raising a roof?
We have a 1890's "Antique" Colonial that is basically 1.5 stories with
some rather strange angles, dormers etc. We would like to square off
the second story and are looking for names of reputable contractors
that do this type of work. The home is in the greater Maynard area.
Any ideas?
|
186.259 | Leak where roof addition meets house | WMOIS::FERRARI_G | | Wed Apr 28 1993 15:26 | 31 |
| I'm getting a leak on an almost flat roof, where the roof meets the
house:
|
| ---- House
| (Not even close to scale)
Leak ----- \
\ --- Roof
\
The roof was an addition for a back porch. I'm converting that porch
to a room. The roof drops about 3' over a 10' span. The 3-season
porch had a dropped ceiling that didn't leak. It only started when I
wanted a "semi-cathedral" ceiling in the room. I insulated and where
the roof meets the house, I installed some kind of vent that will allow
air flow up through the ceiling, and out this vent. The vent kind of
looks like so:
|
air vent ----- _\
|----
I installed this vent per instructions. House shingles over the
vertical part of the vent, and roof shingles over the horizontal part
of the vent. It's secure, I've caulked it, it has a downward slope; I
just can't see where the water's coming in. (I haven't climbed on the
roof during a shower yet, but I may have to).
Any ideas, short of calling in a roofer?
|
186.260 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Wed Apr 28 1993 15:30 | 3 |
| Use a garden hose to find the leak. Start low, build up to the house.
Marc H.
|
186.261 | | WMOIS::FERRARI_G | | Wed Apr 28 1993 16:49 | 2 |
| Thanx, Marc. Simple, but I never would have thought of it....
|
186.262 | | TUXEDO::WRAY | John Wray, Secure Systems Engineering | Wed Apr 28 1993 19:19 | 19 |
| > I insulated and where
> the roof meets the house, I installed some kind of vent that will allow
> air flow up through the ceiling, and out this vent. The vent kind of
> looks like so:
>
> |
> air vent ----- _\
> |----
>
> I installed this vent per instructions. House shingles over the
> vertical part of the vent, and roof shingles over the horizontal part
> of the vent. It's secure, I've caulked it, it has a downward slope;
Could you tell me where you found this vent? I've been looking for one
of these so I can do the same job (convert a 3-season porch into an
insulated heated room). I take it this is a strip that runs along the
hip joint - something a bit like half of a ridge vent?
John
|
186.263 | Hamshaw Lumber | WMOIS::FERRARI_G | | Wed Apr 28 1993 20:14 | 7 |
| I finally found it at Hamshaw Lumber in Orange, MA. I had tried
Grossman's, Somerville, etc., and everyone there had (1) not heard of
anything like it, or (2), recommended cutting a normal ridge vent and
trying to Mickey Mouse something together.
(There's also a Hamshaw Lumber in Keene, NH)
|
186.473 | CASH and carry roofing stuff | COSMIC::PETERSON | Kevin, ESB MLO5-5/E71 DTN:223-1805 | Thu May 06 1993 01:50 | 39 |
| Kevin Peterson
MLO5-5 E71
DTN: 223-1805
Please call home at 562-9293
Miscellaneous Roofing Equipment and Materials
A "benevolent" roofing absentee renter has "donated" a bunch of
roofing paraphenalia.
3 8'x2' assemblable ladder sections for "shingle hoist"
3 4'x2' || || || || || ||
2 8'x18" || || || || || ||
1 4'x18" || || || || || ||
1 2' gas hoist with caddy
1 18" electric hosit with caddy
1 25 lb box of roofing nails
Several bundles of shingles (great for dog house, et al)
3 16"x16"x2' Ceramic chimney flu sections
2 9"x9"x2' || || || ||
8 10' Beige Aluminum Down Spouts (new never used)
1 Box of miscellaneous step flashing
1 Large bag of 8" Common Spikes (Yes 8 inches, for landscaping
timbers maybe)
1 Behemoth antique table saw with 3 phase 1 million horse motor
(no blades, rip fence, or square and needs lots of work and
spare parts, but built to last!)
No reasonable offer refused. Note the aluminum alone is probably
worth a couple hundred dollars. This stuff is in Stow.
Gone
1 10'xn' Roll of rubber roofing (probably atleast 20')
12 Cinder blocks
3 4'x4"x12" End of Beams
3 of 11 10' Beige Aluminum Down Spouts (new never used)
|
186.474 | Remaining roofing stuff, BO | COSMIC::PETERSON | Kevin, ESB MLO5-5/E71 DTN:223-1805 | Mon May 10 1993 01:17 | 26 |
| Kevin Peterson
MLO5-5 E71
DTN: 223-1805
Please call home at 562-9293
Miscellaneous Roofing Equipment and Materials Left
(thanks for you support. Don't let the scrap man get this stuff.)
3 8'x2' assemblable ladder sections for "shingle hoist"
3 4'x2' || || || || || ||
1 8'x18" || || || || || ||
1 4'x18" || || || || || ||
1 2' gas hoist with caddy
1 18" electric hosit with caddy
8 10' Beige Aluminum Down Spouts (new never used)
1 Box of miscellaneous step flashing
1 Behemoth antique table saw with 3 phase 1 million horse motor
(no blades, rip fence, or square and needs lots of work and
spare parts, but built to last!)
No reasonable offer refused. Note the aluminum alone is probably
worth a couple hundred dollars. This stuff is in Stow.
Hey, did some one happen to walk off with an 8 foot ladder section
without paying? This stuff was best offer, not no offer!
$10 and I'll forget it happened.
|
186.377 | Erecting and shingling a gazebo roof | CRLVMS::BLACK | Andrew P. Black | Wed May 19 1993 02:30 | 60 |
| Tell me ...
This is about gazebo roofs, but not specifically about rafters.
Butthere didn't seem to be a better place ...
I cut my gazebo roof rafters last fall, and now I have some other
chores out of the way, it's time to put it all together. I know how it
will stay up when it's done, but I'm not sure how to get it there.
I have a 2' long octagonal "post" that will go right in the center of
the roof -- about 11 feet above the deck. Eight curvilinear rafters
will meet at the post; their bottom ends will be supported by the
corner posts of the gazebo. I have the corner posts in palce, and a
double 2 x 8 beam running between them.
Somehow, I have to get that octagonal post up in the air and getthe
first four rafters nailed to it. I have thought of two ideas:
(1) temporaily nail 2 x 4 "legs" to the center post, stand it on
the deck so that it comes to the right hight, guy it with rope. Put
the rafters up one at a time. Sounds as though it would work, but I'll
need a 12' step ladder to get up to the post so that I can nail the
rafters on to it.
(2) Working on the ground, nail two of the rafters to the octagonal
post to make a "V" shape. Lift this onto the top of the gazebo frame,
tie the open ends of the "V" to opposite corners, and then with poles
and ropes "hinge" the "V" into the upright position. I still have to
nail the other two rafters to the center post, which will still need a
long ladder.
Is there a Home_worker out there who has done this? Are there
other, better, methods? Anyone up for a roof raising on Memorial Day
weekend?
Once the eight hip rafters are up, and I have cut and installed the
(shorter) jack rafters, I have apply the roof decking. I bought (last
year) 1 x 8 ship-lap for this; I may have to groove some of the boards
longways to make them conform to the curve of the roof. Then come the
shingles ...
I have never put cedar shingles on a roof before. I have some
questions:
(3) what happens at the hips. On a gazebo roof, there are more
hips than roof! Asphalt shingles would probably conform to the hips,
but cedar won't.
(4) How should I flash around the octagonal center post? Should I
cut a groove in the post now, before it goes up, so that I have a place
to set the flashing into? How far above the top of the roof decking
should the groove be?
(5) Roofing paper will go over the shiplap. Should the shingles
be nailed directly to the shiplap (this is what the plans say), or
should there be strapping to keep the shingles off of the roof deck
to allow for ventilation (which is what my building books say)?
Andrew
|
186.378 | What, no engineers left out there ? | CRLVMS::BLACK | Andrew P. Black | Fri May 21 1993 13:53 | 5 |
| I'm disappointed that all of those budding mechanical engineers out
there havn't jumped on this one ...
Andrew
|
186.379 | shingle answer | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri May 21 1993 20:02 | 27 |
|
> (3) what happens at the hips. On a gazebo roof, there are more
> hips than roof! Asphalt shingles would probably conform to the hips,
> cut cedar won't.
Boston ridge/hip: A 6" metal flashing is fitted first and shingles 6"
wide are alternately lapped, fitted and blind nailed so that the
exposed edges are alternately lapped. (Basically, you make little
tents out of two shingles and overlap them as you work towards the
centre pole.)
You can get the ridge shingles pre-cut or assembled for a conventional
house roof, but the hip angle on your gazebo will probably be much
shallower.
Why not go for an ornamental copper flashing and extend a copper ridge
down each hip? Easier than fitting the ridge shingles.
Vertical flashing is normally 4" exposure above the covering.
As for the rest, I'd be heading down to Taylor rental and renting a
scaffold for the weekend!
Colin
|
186.380 | Civil War! | SNOC02::WATTS | | Mon May 24 1993 08:26 | 8 |
|
> I'm disappointed that all of those budding mechanical engineers out
> there havn't jumped on this one ...
That's because it is a civil engineering problem ...
Michael Watts B.E.(Mech)
|
186.381 | Civility pays off | CRLVMS::BLACK | Andrew P. Black | Tue May 25 1993 02:33 | 19 |
|
> That's because it is a civil engineering problem ...
You are right! So I walked over to my neighbours yesterday afternoon,
was as civil as I could be to them, and the four of us put it up -- it
-----
took about 15 minutes!
Before enlisting their aid, I had nailed three of the rafters at right
angles to the center post, to make a sort of giant spider. Then we
just walked across the grass with it, and hoisted it over our heads,
until it sat on the collar ties. Then two of us climbed ladders at
opposite sides, lifted up the "spider", and set it down in place.
It's amazing how I worried about how I was going to do this all winter,
and it turned out to be so easy. If only all of life was like that :-)
Andrew
|
186.302 | relatively new roof leaks... | SMURF::PETERT | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Thu Jul 15 1993 16:08 | 28 |
| I've got a pretty leaky roof. It's not as if we're using buckets to
catch things (yet) but during very heavy storms (like the thunder
storm last week) we find numerous wet spots on inside ceilings and
walls, all (except for the skylight ones) on the side of the house
that gets the most sun. We had a roofer out the other night
and he took me up to show me how the shingles on the sunward side
had numerous cracks running through them, which seemed like a
likely cause of our problem. Does this seem likely? Now
this is a new house constructed shortly before we moved in
6 years ago. So it seems a pretty short time for these shingles
(fiberglass we're pretty sure) to fail. Another problem the roofer
noted was that the ridge vent was nailed down apparently with
1 inch (ungalvinzed, rusting, some popping out) nails, where he
would have used at least 2 inch nails. After looking at some of
the previous replies here, I can also comment that there was no
caulking/sealing of any kind applied to these nails on the roof
vent. Due to the problems we've been having with it, and our
hopes of not living there forever, we decided to go whole hog and
re-roof the sucker, rather than patch here and there. He also
plans on redoing the roof ridge, replacing the aluminum contraption
there with a shingled ridge of some sort, I got the impression
that it would look just like the shingles, and just overhang the
ridge in a inverted V shape. Does this seem a reasonable approach
or are we just being too paranoid and in-experienced?
Thanks for any replies!
PeterT
|
186.303 | New styles of ridgevents available. | HDLITE::FLEURY | | Thu Jul 15 1993 16:13 | 9 |
| re: .-1
There are a number of styles of ridgevent now available which are
covered by a layer of shingles making the vest virtually invisible.
There are some which look like multi-layer corregated cardboard and
some that look like random strands of fiber. Both types are nailed to
the ridge then covered with cut shingles.
Dan
|
186.304 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Thu Jul 15 1993 16:31 | 6 |
| Better to do the job now, when it's relatively convenient to do
so, than to *HAVE* to do it in February....
There are all kinds of grades of shingles. Whoever shingled your
house may have used the absolute cheapest. When you redo it, get
the good ones....
|
186.305 | used roofing?? | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Jul 16 1993 11:45 | 10 |
|
Only 6 years out of a roof! sounds like they used "used" shingles!!
All your venting for the roof is working I hope. My roof had none
and it blistered the shingles but they were on for atleast 10-12
years.....
If you dont mind what you have for a ridge vent, re-use it and save
a few bucks. I used the Bird, Windseal brand. Light color to keep
the heat down.
|
186.306 | Fiberglass shingles can fail early | LANDO::DROBNER | Laser/Blazer Systems Engineering | Fri Jul 16 1993 15:24 | 7 |
| I have been told at a class this spring taught by one of the highly
recommended home inspectors that he has seen MANY roofs that have
fiberglass based shingles on them that have failed and are only 5 to
6 years old. His recommondation was to asphalt based shingles if you
can still find them around.
/Howard
|
186.307 | Thanks for the replies... | QUARRY::petert | rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty | Fri Jul 16 1993 20:10 | 7 |
| The roofer is planning on using 20 year shingles. He uses them all the time
for a company he works for in Westboro (he's the roofer for a major
development there if I understood him correctly.). At least this time
we'll have the manufacturer and evidence. Hopefully things have
improved with the fiberglass shingles.
PeterT
|
186.428 | pitch of a farmer's porch roof? | MKOTS3::ROBERTS_CR | Rush is Reich | Tue Jul 27 1993 12:44 | 9 |
|
More questions about pitch of a roof. We're going to put a 'farmer's
porch' across the front of our house and want to be sure that the
pitch of the roof is such that the great light can still pour in
through the bow window in the livingroom and through the oversize kitchen
window. Is there a way to approach this scientifically or do we just
say 'here, the roof starts here and ends there' ?
Carol
|
186.429 | you need an astronomer or meteorologist | VAXUUM::T_PARMENTER | The cake of liberty | Tue Jul 27 1993 13:09 | 12 |
| I think the "pitch" of the sun is more important than the pitch of the
roof. The dang thing moves all over the sky.
My house is oriented north and south. I get great light in different
places and at different times of the day depending on what part of the
year we're in. I get great light in my living room several months a
year in the late afternoon and evening (right about now) and I get
great light in the bedroom in the morning several spring months of the
year. It depends on where the sun is, how high or low, how far north
or south.
|
186.430 | A picture might help | CADSYS::FLEECE::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Tue Jul 27 1993 13:25 | 27 |
| .8 is right, but you don't need to bring all the scientists into it. We have a
full length porch on the south side of our house. It blocks the sun from
coming in the windows on that side in the summer, when you don't need the heat,
but lets light come in in the winter, when the sun is lower in the southern sky,
when you really want the light. We get some summer sun in the outermost
windows, but the angle is almost directly down to the floor. The porch is high
enough above the windows to let the winter light in.
Top view
----------------------------------------
^ | | xx - windows
N | house |
| |
----xx----xx---------------xx------xx---
| porch |
----------------------------------------
I can't really tell what you are asking. Maybe you could type in a sketch of
your house, where the porch will go, and what windows you are trying to not
block?
Elaine
|
186.431 | In table form at your local library | VICKI::DODIER | Food for thought makes me hungry | Tue Jul 27 1993 13:33 | 20 |
| I believe the more important factor will be how far the roof
extends from the house. This has already been scientifically calculated.
Go to your local library and look under the title "Solar power". Based on
the longitude of where you're located, most any decent book that covers
passive solar power will give you a table to use. You can determine at what
points of the year you will/won't get sun in the house based on how much
overhang you have.
The summer sun is higher (steeper angle) than the winter sun. You
can get in down to which months you will start getting sun and which
months you'll stop getting sun.
Keep in mind that this was basically for an "overhang". You may
find that the optimal overhang for your needs is 24", which isn't very
practical for a porch roof. It will at least tell you the maximum
overhang you can use to be able to get any sun. You may also be able to
place a skylight in the porch roof at the optimal distance to get sun
into the desired window/s at the approx. desired times of the year.
Ray
|
186.432 | it's all trigonometry | COAL05::WHITMAN | Acid Rain Burns my Bass | Tue Jul 27 1993 15:00 | 16 |
| This is purely from memory of my solar design class at Worcester State.
As I recall the noonday sun on Dec 22 in Worcester is at about 22 deg above
the southern horizon and on Jun 21 it's about 60 deg.
In the class we were trying to maximize the sunlight that entered the window
in the winter yet miminize it in the heat of the summer. You should look
at one of the many solar design books that are put out (Rodale Press has a
few.)
With that information YOU have to decide how much of the room you want to
have lit in the winter, and how much you can tolerate in the summer. Then do
the math...
Al
|
186.433 | | ISLNDS::RIDGE | the trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Wed Jul 28 1993 16:34 | 4 |
| A related question: What would be the minimum pitch for this kind of
roof over a porch here in the Noreast.
Steve
|
186.434 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Wed Jul 28 1993 17:13 | 5 |
| 4 to 1 is the usual min. for shingle roof. The roofing packages have
design guides on them..........
Marc H.
|
186.435 | is less than 4-1 ok? 6-1? | ISLNDS::RIDGE | the trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Thu Aug 05 1993 18:23 | 9 |
| So for a 12ft porch roof I would have to come down 3ft? I don't think
I have that much room. I would hit the skylights on the roof of the
existing house. Working backwards. If I need a 7.5 ft elevation at the
outside edge of the porch, the porch is 12ft wide, so at the house I
would need to have 10.5ft in height for the roof. Following this plane
to the house would cover up 1/2 of my skylights. Now what?
You mention "the roofing packages have design guides". What a roofing
package?
|
186.436 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Aug 05 1993 18:42 | 9 |
| RE: .14
The roofing package is the outside paper covering on the bundle of
shingles.
From memory...a 3 to one is the minimum for a regular asphalt shingle
roof.
Marc H.
|
186.437 | old tool, new angle | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Aug 06 1993 16:30 | 4 |
|
most framing squares will tell you the pitch of you roof.....
JD
|
186.438 | I think I read 2" min for shingles, but not for me | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Tue Aug 10 1993 13:09 | 7 |
|
You can do less of a pitch roof, but you'll have to use roll roofing
instead. Not quite as good looking, but it still comes in colors and
with the roof flatter than ordinary, its hard to see from the ground
anyway.
Kenny
|
186.475 | Signs of roof needing replacing? | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Mon Sep 20 1993 21:08 | 20 |
| I bought my house about a month ago. I hired Paul Maida to do the
inspection (thanks to many recommendations in the REAL_ESTATE
conference). He pointed out that the roof (the original roof, over 20
years old) would need reshingling immediately (worn down to the paper,
and even to the plywood, in some places). So I requested a reduction
in price, but I naively said "replacing the roof" instead of
"reshingling the roof." The seller got a roofer out to the house and
went over it. His result was that the roof didn't need replacing, but
the west side (no shade from the afternoon sun) was not in the best
condition. We reached a compromise, and everyone was happy.
So now I'm getting estimates from roofers who have been recommended in
this conference. Most of them just measured, but one went up onto the
roof. He said that he could hear the plywood laminates separating when
he walked on them, which meant that the whole roof needed replacing (at
more than twice the cost of reshingling).
On the one hand, the votes are two to one that the roof itself is okay.
On the other hand, it _is_ the roof. So, how does one tell if the roof
needs replacing?
|
186.476 | Twisted rafters | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Mon Sep 20 1993 21:10 | 5 |
| Another roof question:
A few of the rafters have twisted, so you can see a slight ridge in the
roof's surface. How much of a problem is this? Does it depend on how
badly the rafter has twisted?
|
186.477 | Estimate time and cost then multiply by 2! | MSBCS::PAGLIARULO_G | Reality is a cosmic hunch | Tue Sep 21 1993 11:57 | 14 |
| If you can't get into an attic to look at the underside of the roof to
check on it then I think the only way to be sure of it's condition is to
remove the old shingles rather than shingle over them. Once the
shingles are off you can do an evaluation of the wood underneath. If
there's any question about the condition of the roofing then pull the
old shingles off. It will be well worth it in the end. It would be a
shame to have to rip up a new roof becuse of hidden damage that was missed.
And hey, if the roof or part of it does need replacing then you may have a
moisture problem so don't forget a ridge and soffit vents, and make
sure there is a clear air channel from the soffits to the vent and.....
Congratulations on your new home! :-) :-)
George
|
186.478 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Tue Sep 21 1993 12:00 | 14 |
| RE: .0
How old is the house?
Also, how are you with climbing on ladders? You really need a first
hand look-see.
If some of the sheathing is delaminating, it can be replaced....if the
whole roof sheathing needs to be replaced, you have to wonder what
type of rain has been leaking into your home!
I suspect that a couple of plywood sheathing pieces need to be
replaced........shouldn't be a big deal.
Marc H.
|
186.479 | Some things you can try | VICKI::DODIER | Cars suck, then they die | Tue Sep 21 1993 12:24 | 31 |
| Unless the plywood is the wrong type (i.e. not exterior grade), it
shouldn't delaminate enough to worry about. Depending on how many
laminates it has, and how thick it is, it may not be that big of a
deal anyway (i.e. 1/2" thick 5 ply with one bad laminate is probably
as strong as 3/8" 3 ply with good laminates).
One other way to think about this is, if these guys where walking
and standing on your roof, the force applied (their weight) is a
significant amount for any one spot. The only other problem I can think
of is if the first layer comes up in places where they try to strip the
singles off, leaving an uneven nailing surface.
I wouldn't expect that the wrong plywood was used as the exterior
stuff is usually also on the lower end of the price scale to buy. As
far as the rafters are concerned, so long as they're not rotten or
sagging downward (reverse crowned), it doesn't sound like a big deal.
Some of the twisting may be corrected by nailing pieces in between
the rafters, if it hasn't already been done. This is something you can
do yourself (assuming these are exposed in the attic). Just buy some
wood the same dimension as what was used for the rafters and cut pieces
to fit between the rafters. Nail them in place in the middle of the
rafters, with every other one staggered so you can nail them in from
the ends. This will also help strengthen and support your roof.
One other thought, you can always have the company that didn't say
anything about the plywood come back out and check it. Just tell them
someone else said it needed to be replaced and you want to make sure
you're not getting shafted.
Ray
|
186.480 | | ACESMK::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Tue Sep 21 1993 19:01 | 7 |
| Well, it sounds like I want to have the old shingles stripped off so we
can get a look at what's underneath, rather than go over the existing
layer. (Sigh, more money.) The inspection didn't find any signs of
water damage and the ventilation isn't the greatest (eight soffit vents
and two gable vents -- I'm getting at least 4 more vents and a ridge
vent put in), so if the sheathing is starting to go, it's a pretty
recent development.
|
186.110 | Advice on *partial* roof replacem't from eaves | HYDRA::BECK | Paul Beck | Fri Sep 24 1993 12:52 | 28 |
| This seems to be the closest topic ...
We had our roof redone from the decking up about 12 years ago. (This is
a Deck House, so we have (from the inside out) 3x6 decking (which
doubles as the cathedral ceiling), roofing paper, 2" Thermax rigid
insulation, and asphalt shingles (Bird 25 year). Because on a Deck House
the pitch is shallow (I think it's 14 degrees; real easy to walk on), we
had 6' of roof rolls installed along the eaves.
The Bird shingles still look like they're in fine shape and have caused
no problems. The roof rolling obviously has a much shorter lifetime,
looks like hell and is starting to split in places (and leak in a
couple). So it's clearly time to replace it. We're about to call in some
quotes.
Question for this august body (even though it's September): is it
reasonable to assume that it's feasible to replace the roof rolling
without replacing the entire roof? It looks real tricky because of the
overlap: replacing *part* of the roof starting at the eave means that
the intersection with the roof you're not replacing has to go *under*
the existing roofing. Are there standard techniques for this?
Reason for asking is so I have a bit more background should the roofers
say "Nope, gotta replace the whole thing from the peak down". (If we do
that I'll probably take it down to the decking again and get the
bidgithane (I *know* that's spelled wrong) membrane installed, but if
the Bird shingles have 10 years left in them, I'd rather not do the
whole job if it's not necessary.
|
186.481 | Roofing cooperative? | GNPIKE::SMITH | Peter H. Smith,297-6345,TSEG/DECfbe | Fri Sep 24 1993 20:25 | 12 |
| I'm going to need to replace my roof next spring. Minimum is to strip
two layers of shingles and the sheathing.
I'm too cheap to pay someone to do the grunt work, but I've also learned
enough to know that I can't handle this alone.
If there's anyone in the same situation planning to do the work next
spring, how 'bout trading labor? We do one roof and then the other,
working together to make each one (or n) go faster...
I can't put this off much longer -- the ants are getting too much to
drink...
|
186.111 | Don't need no stinkin' new roof.... | BUSY::JWHITTEMORE | Carp Perdiem | Sat Sep 25 1993 23:47 | 27 |
|
NO! You do not have to replace the whole roof and any contractor who tries to
sell you otherwise is raking you big time. The last run of shingles can be
lifted quite a bit without breaking the tabs and new material slid up under-
neath. If a deeper overlap is needed the last run of shingles can be pulled,
the same lift-n-tuck done on the next run, and then a run of matching shingles
put down using, again, the same lift-n-tuck. ALL the modular homes I've had
the pleasure to set have needed a run of shingles half way up the roof (there's
a joint there from shipping [they're roofed at the factory]), a few runs up
to the peak/ridge vent (installed on site), and a run two courses above the
drip edge as the overhangs are hinged for shipping also. These are 'new'
roofs so the shingles haven't 'healed' to each other but given a warm day and a
bit of care there'll be no problem.
When a storm drops a good sized limb on a roof and cuts up a patch of shingles
they just pull off the damaged ones and replace them - not the whole roof.
---
Joe Whittemore - From where the Westfield
Meets the Westfield
By the Westfield
In Huntington, MA. [in SPIRIT anyway.....]
busy::jwhittemore
jwhittemore@busy.enet.dec.com
|
186.112 | That's what I thought; thanks | HYDRA::BECK | Paul Beck | Sun Sep 26 1993 02:38 | 7 |
| That's what I figured (nobody had told me otherwise; I was just playing
worst-case scenario games). Though I've spent a lot of time on the roof
over the past 16 years (for various maintenance reasons) I've never
actually messed around with replacing shingles, so I wasn't sure how
readily you could get far enough under them to ensure sufficient
coverage. In any event, the first estimate I got confirms my feeling and
your assurance (and was for less than I figured it would be).
|
186.113 | | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:53 | 5 |
|
Yup, Joe is exactly correct. Partial replacements are done all the
time.
Kenny
|
186.264 | shingles = flat roofs | JOKUR::JOKUR::MCCONNEY | I'm a M.D. = Music Director | Mon Oct 04 1993 18:16 | 8 |
| re>It's definitely too low a slope for regular shingles - they usually
>reccommend 4" per foot (although I've used them on 3" per foot with no
>problems). 1" per foot is too low though.
Why do they not recommend using regular shingles on an "almost flat"
roof?
thanks, Chip
|
186.265 | | ASIMOV::CHALTAS | Fetchez la vache! | Mon Oct 04 1993 20:13 | 3 |
| because water creeps up under the shingles, resulting in a leaky roof.
Shingles aren't watertight, just designed to direct the water off of
your roof. If the slope isn't steep enough, they don't work.
|
186.266 | | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Tue Oct 05 1993 23:32 | 8 |
| Hi Chip!
re.-1 is right. Shingles aren't water tight at all, they just shed
the water by the way they are installed. It is not recommended that you
use shingles on a roof with less than a 2/12 pitch. I would personally
be nervous with even that, especially in NE with its snow/ice.
Kenny
|
186.267 | Roll With It | JOKUR::JOKUR::MCCONNEY | I'm a M.D. = Music Director | Wed Oct 06 1993 11:31 | 3 |
| Thanks for the warning! I have some left over shingles from another
roofing job - thought I could save some bucks and use them. I'll
definitely use mineral rolled roofing.
|
186.114 | Hole in roof | POWDML::MACINTYRE | | Wed Nov 17 1993 14:14 | 50 |
|
I've read through 7 notes after using a keyword search for
"ROOF". I didn't see anything specific to my question but I
think this is the logical note to use. Anyway, here goes:
While up in my attic getting things set up to add an new
layer of insulation I noticed (shock! gasp! Oh sh*t!) that I
have a hole in my roof!
I haven't had any signs of major leakage but my wife has
noticed a slight stain on our bedroom ceiling. Since it
wasn't big or spreading I initially figured that something
was spilled up there rather than there being a leak.
The hole is about 6 inches wide and as high as 4 inches high.
My roof is made up of boards rather than plywood. I've owned
it for about a year and 3/4.
The previous owners stated that the roof was about 8-10 years
old (I know, vague) and the inspector did not go up on the
roof but said it looked fine (yeah I know, should have
insisted). I don't want to beat myself up for not being more
thorough, I just want to fix it.
The hole is in the board. The paper is torn a bit and the
shingles are fine. The rest of the roof is in good shape.
Although not an expert, I've been up on the roof a couple of
time and there is not obvious damage or curling anywhere. I
think that the board split along a knot line from the force
of the hammer driving a nail.
Can I patch this from the inside or must I (or someone else)
get up there and tear up the shingles and patch from the
outside?
If I can patch from the inside, do I make a smooth cut and
stick in a new piece of board?
I don't want to work on the roof. Its about 25-30 feet up
and steep.
Any and all comments as far as my options go are greatly
appreciated.
Thanks,
Marv
|
186.115 | | TLE::FRIDAY | DEC Fortran: a gem of a language | Wed Nov 17 1993 19:37 | 7 |
| Re .93
If I understood your note correctly the hole is in the wood
but it's covered with shingles that are in good shape.
In that case, ignore it. It's the shingles that stop water
from getting into the attic; the wood does little more than
provide a base to nail the shingles into.
|
186.116 | just in case | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Nov 18 1993 11:32 | 4 |
|
Except that someone else may not be averse to walking on the roof
at some future time. I'd saw out the bad wood & scarf in a new bit,
securing it from the back with plywood reinforcers.
|
186.141 | Any successes? | STAR::KAYAK::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Tue Nov 30 1993 19:53 | 13 |
| Well here it is 6 years later and the leaded copper roof looks great, but the
original tin needs another paint job. I'm not pleased at all with how quickly
the paint I used lost its gloss (about one summer) and how quickly it started
to peel off the primer (3 years) and how soon till it rusted, (within 4 years).
The primer and top coat I used were recommended by the old timers at the local
hardware store here in Nashua but they were wrong.
Has anybody successfully painted a metal roof and been pleased with the results?
I've got three of these on my house and would like to find the right paint.
I'd like to stay away from the silver asphalt paints as I've heard there are
problems with them but that's about all I heard. Any opinions to the contrary?
Right now the roof is red and I'd like to keep it that color.
|
186.142 | Its all in the prep work and pure tin doesn't rust | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Wed Dec 01 1993 11:52 | 8 |
|
An oil-based deck enamel will likely last the longest. Did you
carefully clean and then etch the surface of the metal before priming?
My father suggests using a wipedown of straight vinegar as a final step
before painting metal. I have seen through the years that it really
does help adhesion.
Kenny
|
186.143 | This is an ooooooooold roof | STAR::KAYAK::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Wed Dec 01 1993 14:58 | 6 |
| As this was an old previously painted terne metal roof, my prep consisted of
running over it with a belt sander to remove scaled paint and rust. I then
swept with a broom and primed it.
Is the vinegar only for bare metal, or for prepping old paint as well? I'm
wondering if I shouldn't be using Rust-o-leum or something.
|
186.144 | | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Wed Dec 01 1993 15:55 | 7 |
|
Yeah, vinegar is for bare metal before priming. The best advice I can
give you for your current situation is to clean what is there very well
and use a good, oil-based primer first.
Kenny
|
186.145 | Use a membrane paint | UCLYPT::WATTS | | Wed Dec 01 1993 21:46 | 25 |
|
I painted a portion of our corrugated iron roof about 7 years ago. After some
investigation I used a flexible membrane finish (Emerclad), rather than a paint.
I can really recommend this as the way to go. The membrane finish is expected
to have a fifteen year life in a fully exposed position.
I was on the roof last weekend (putting mesh over the chimneys to stop amourous
pigeons falling down them) and the membrane is, except for fading, in mint
condition. We can't see our roof from the ground, so the fading isn't a problem.
But there is no lifting or peeling, and no apparent rust.
The difficulty with metal rooves is that they are subject to strong temperature
changes - where we are the air temp varies from about 0 degrees C (coldest
winter night) to about 45 degrees C (hottest summer day), but the temperature
of the roof iron varies from about -5 degrees C to around 110 degrees C. The
temperature expansion coefficients of the iron and paint have to be very close
to avoid the paint peeling in these circumstances.
Also, the roof gets exposed to full sunlight, thus UV, so fading is always an
issue - I was told the solution here is to use a light colour (fading less
noticeable) or initially paint 3-4 shades darker than desired, and wait for the
fading to work.
regards,
Michael Watts
|
186.353 | Drip edge size | BIGQ::HAWKE | | Thu Jun 30 1994 11:30 | 10 |
| I'm doing my roof this weekend and was at one of the home stores
pricing things when I saw drip edge in 5 and 8" sizes. Do you use
a different size for the bottom edge as opposed to the sides or
is the 8" better because its wider or what is the difference?
Also how is the drip edge held in place ? the nail through the
shingle, roofing cement or just stuck there ?
Thanks
Dean
|
186.354 | water proof membrane | BIGQ::HAWKE | | Thu Jun 30 1994 11:47 | 6 |
| one more thing...I intend to use that sticky rubber membrane
do you put that around every edge like the drip edge or is
standard practice to just use it at the bottom edge.
Dean
|
186.355 | | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Thu Jun 30 1994 12:18 | 8 |
|
Just the bottom edge. If your roof isn't particularly steep
(and you have the extra dough) you might consider running
TWO bands of it, overlapped (top over bottom) by a couple
of inches. This past winter large enough ice dams formed
on my roof to back the water up higher than the first band.
- Mac
|
186.356 | because I have a Fall project coming up... | HNDYMN::MCCARTHY | Languages RTLs | Thu Jun 30 1994 12:38 | 8 |
| >> one more thing...I intend to use that sticky rubber membrane
>> do you put that around every edge like the drip edge or is
>> standard practice to just use it at the bottom edge.
I think its called bituthane - and if you find it somewhere, let me know, none
of the "super" hardware stores seem to carry it.
bjm
|
186.357 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Jun 30 1994 13:11 | 4 |
| It's also sold as Grace Ice and Water Shield; a name you should be able to
find easier at places like Home Depot.
Steve
|
186.358 | ! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Jul 01 1994 11:27 | 8 |
|
large drip edge on the bottom. narrow on the sides.
When I did my roof, I used wood shingles instead. them extend out
more and your able to put a latter up against them. Little extra
work..
JD
|
186.359 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Jul 01 1994 12:53 | 3 |
| You can get galvanized steel drip edge, which is much more resistant
to ladder damage than the aluminum variety.
|
186.360 | info on ICE barrier membranes | SOLVIT::COLLINS | | Fri Jul 01 1994 14:49 | 7 |
| The rubber material used as an ice barrier on roofs (before shingling)
is sold at Somerville Lumber. I just purchase a roll 2 days ago. A 36'
by 3' Roll(108 sq ft) of BIRD "fire and ice barrier" cost $43. I believe
the 200 sq ft roll cost $81. Home Depot has a similiar product called
FL210 for $38. I chose the BIRD product because it is softer(more
resiliant) so I believe it will seal better around nail holes. The FL210
has a rough surface similiar to a roofing shingle and is much stiffer.
|
186.361 | slick or stick | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 11:17 | 9 |
|
Are you sure its not "Snow and ice?"... The "Fire and ice"
sounds more like Motor oil......:)
I think mine was a 75'x 3' roll. the softer stuff needs two sets of
hands. One brings to mind the image of trying to hang flypaper with
boxing gloves!..
JD
|
186.362 | 6' not 3' - hmmm flypaper huh? | HNDYMN::MCCARTHY | Languages RTLs | Tue Jul 05 1994 12:42 | 13 |
| >> I think mine was a 75'x 3' roll. the softer stuff needs two sets of
If that's the length, all I'll need is one roll.
Now, how does one go about overlapping this stuff.... does it stick to itself?
When I had my water damage in the winter, the guy I hired to brake the ice off
the roof said he would give me an estimate on putting 6' (not just 3') of
bituthane and after looking at how far up the ice damn formed, I don't think
that is such a bad idea... (oh ya, the guy never called me back to come do
the estimate).
bjm
|
186.363 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Jul 05 1994 14:24 | 5 |
| 6' is recommended if the pitch is shallow. I have 6' on the rear dormer
of my full-dormered Cape. If the roof is on the north side, 6' may also
be worthwhile.
Steve
|
186.364 | ruf | BIGQ::HAWKE | | Tue Jul 05 1994 16:34 | 23 |
186.365 | super stick | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Tue Jul 05 1994 16:43 | 6 |
| re: overlap..
Yes, it sticks very well. infact, once you stick it, its very, very
difficult to remove!!... Once its down, its home!!!
JD
|
186.366 | What about the old shingles....? | SALEM::ALLORE | All I want is ONE shot..well maybe 2 | Tue Jul 05 1994 16:47 | 9 |
| RE:Last
Did you find a way to get rid of the old shingles? I'm
going to be doing my roof soon and with two courses to strip off
I'm going to have quite a bit to get rid of.....
I was thinking about renting a small dumpster like they
do at some job sites.
Bob
|
186.367 | | MKOTS3::GELE | ARISE,SHINE,FOR THE LIGHT HAS COME | Tue Jul 05 1994 21:39 | 3 |
| Bob:
Your best bet is to rent a dumpster. I believe the cost is
$100.00 every time they come for pick-up.
|
186.482 | painting the roof | ROCK::ANDERSON | | Tue Aug 23 1994 16:40 | 18 |
|
Our old house has concrete/asbestos shingles on it that are still basically
watertight and sound, but starting to look pretty dirty and faded and sound.
They are also uniquely-shaped and suit our Victorian house very well so we
don't want to replace the roof.
A house inspector who looked over our house suggested that we might want to
power wash and then paint the roof to spruce it up and to make the shingles
that might be getting a bit porous, watertight.
Any one have any opinions about that suggestion; either the power washing or
the painting? Who does either of those jobs? Would a power-washing company do
roofs? Who paints roofs? Painters? Roofers? Any tips on what to watch out
for if I try to find someone to do this?
Thanks in advance.
Walker
|
186.483 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Aug 23 1994 16:46 | 2 |
| Be careful, if anybody goes on the roof, that they don't crack any
of the shingles.
|
186.484 | Regulated? | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Tue Aug 23 1994 17:07 | 13 |
|
Since power washing not only removes dirt, but can also removes loose
particles of the original material... you might find that it is
regulated in the case of asbestos/concrete shingles. Especially given
that one major caution they take in removing asbestos/concrete shingles
(wall shingles) is to attempt capture all particles that drop before
the come in contact with the soil. In the case of power washing the
particles would be suspended in water and be carried into the soil
more easily.
Might be something to look into before getting pinched by it.
- Mac
|
186.308 | Failing roofs | TUXEDO::MOLSON | Margaret Olson | Mon Oct 24 1994 17:11 | 21 |
| There are lots of roofs put in circa 1986, 1987 that are failing
now. GAF had problems with too sticky a sticky
back to the shingles. This prevents the shingles from moving
enough, and they crack.
Our 8 year old roof has cracked shingles all over the place,
including over the screen porch, which has about as much
ventilation as is physically possible. GAF has refused to
honor the warranty because we are the second owners.
These were allegedly 30 year shingles (we have copies of
the original sales receipt).
Bird has a transferable warranty. Needless to say, we
are replacing with Bird shingles, and we are more than
a little cynical about the original non-transferable
warranty from GAF GAF knows that very few people stay
in a house 30 years.
Most of the roofers we talked to had seen other houses
with GAF shingles and the same problem.
|
186.309 | Bird and GAF problem? | 56821::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Mon Oct 24 1994 18:18 | 17 |
| >There are lots of roofs put in circa 1986, 1987 that are failing
>now. GAF had problems with too sticky a sticky
>back to the shingles. This prevents the shingles from moving
>enough, and they crack.
I was told Bird shingles had the same problem those years.
How can you tell which you have? (We are also 2cd owners... with
the same problem - but no real 'failures' yet).
>Bird has a transferable warranty.
Hmmm, any idea how that works? Is it automatic with the sale of
the house?
Thx,
Dan
|
186.310 | Bird and GAF problem, | TUXEDO::MOLSON | Margaret Olson | Tue Oct 25 1994 14:12 | 22 |
| Dan,
I have also heard that Bird had the same problem in the same
time period, but I don't know of any failed Bird roofs. This
may just be because most roofs in our area are GAF.
The previous owners of our house left us their file with the
warranties, owners manuals, and receipts for just about
everything in the house from the shingles to the furnace
to the glass tub doors. It has been real handy. We used the
warranty in the file to make our claim (even though it said
first owner only - we thought the failure so egregious that
it ought to be covered anyway, but it wasn't.).
The way the transferable warranty works is that it has to be
handed from one owner to the next when the house changes hands.
If you know who built your house, that person can almost certainly
tell you exactly what shingles are on it, and how much those
shingles cost.
Margaret.
|
186.311 | maybe its not a warranty issue. | TOOK::MACHON | | Tue Oct 25 1994 14:38 | 3 |
| Given Shell Oil, Dupont and someone else I cant remember just set aside
$750,000,000 to settle claims that their plasic water pipes made 10 years ago
corroded and failed you may have the makings of a class action
|
186.485 | Corrugated steel roof problem | PEROIT::GOONAN | | Mon Nov 21 1994 15:08 | 17 |
| My dad who lives in Deming, New Mexico has a problem with his garage
roof. He has built an adobe garage and put a pitched corrugated steel
roof on it. As he tells me, at points where the corrugated steel comes
in contact with itself, it has apparently corroded leaving white
streaks which run down the length of the panels.
Has anyone else had this problem and solved it? He thinks there may be
a caustic substance that would remove the streaks.
Thanks,
Julie
|
186.486 | | MOLAR::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dogface) | Wed Nov 23 1994 01:28 | 2 |
| Is the corrugated steel galvanized?
|
186.488 | How to clean white rain-trails off roof? | LARVAE::DRSD28::FARRELL | | Fri Nov 25 1994 14:44 | 9 |
| My house has a red tiled roof with dormer windows. Over about 5 years
white lines have appeared either side of the dormer windows, where the rain
runs off them and then in straight lines down to the gutter below.
I tried scrubbing it off with soapy water but it hasn't made much
difference. I think it would work if I spent long enough on it, but
has anyone found a miracle cure for this problem?
Chris.
|
186.489 | Muratic Acid | USCTR1::LAJEUNESSE | | Mon Nov 28 1994 19:00 | 5 |
| I wonder if muratic (sp) acid would do it? It certainly cleans up
brick nicely.
Mark
|
186.487 | Yes, galvanized | PEROIT::GOONAN | | Tue Nov 29 1994 13:06 | 1 |
| Yes, it is galvanized.
|
186.490 | corrugated fiberglass roofing for pole barn? | UNIFIX::FRENCH | Bill French 381-1859 | Mon Mar 27 1995 17:56 | 24 |
| Has anyone had any experience using corrugated fiberglass as roofing
material?
I am halfway through building a pole barn (12' x 32') with steeply
pitched roof as a winter enclosure for my sailboat. There are no
windows. I am trying to decide whether to use all corrugated fibreglass
as roofing, or just do the uphill side which can't be seen from the
house and use a painted galvanized steel roof on the more visible side.
Also, I am considering using fiberglass of some sort to fill in the
peak in the back, which faces south. Since that is a vertical surface,
corrugated might not be needed. Anyone have any experience working
with corrugated roofing that will let light throuogh?
My local building supply place says I should use that wiggily
wood strip that matches the corrugations underneath, but that will
add a lot of cost to the roof.
How tough is it to nail the corrugated stuff without getting leaks?
Thanks,
Bill
|
186.491 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Mar 27 1995 18:10 | 12 |
| You use special nails with rubber washers for nailing corrugated fiberglass
roofing. It is tricky to do well so that it won't leak. Ideally, you should
have wood support strips between the fiberglass and the joists in both
directions (most people just do them horizontally - you can buy the wavy
strips along with the roofing).
I had my screen porch done this way. It leaked badly until I had the
contractor come back and he caulked every nail. I would not use this material
again - not only is it leak-prone, but it gets and stays dirty and looks
awful.
Steve
|
186.492 | | MROA::MACKEY | | Mon Mar 27 1995 18:18 | 3 |
| I need to fix my barn roof that has the corrugated galvanized.
Any idea where in central mass to get this stuff and what the cost
per sheet is?? How do you cut it, Tin snips?
|
186.493 | Similar to masonary blade... | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Mon Mar 27 1995 18:22 | 5 |
| I can't tell you where to get it but I know that they make a
circular saw blade for cutting metal that would probably work fine for
cutting something like that.
Ray
|
186.494 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Mon Mar 27 1995 19:09 | 5 |
| A neighbor of mine just built a barn with a standing-seam metal roof
that looks pretty good. I'm not sure if it's "real" standing-seam
or just panels that go on to look that way, and I'm not sure it's
strictly a do-it-yourself project. I think it looks a LOT better
than the corrugated stuff though.
|
186.495 | What is standing-seam ? | UNIFIX::FRENCH | Bill French 381-1859 | Tue Mar 28 1995 12:41 | 13 |
| What is standing-seam ? Is that mostly flat and only the seam areas
are raised? I looked at a neighbors roof like that over the weekend.
He had also nailed the standing seam although he was ambiguous about
the necessity of that.
Is it easier to nail than the corrugated stuff?
I'm thinking if corrugated is that messy, I'll go with an all
metal roof and cover the peak of the south wall with something
translucent to get some light inside.
Bill
|
186.496 | | MOLAR::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dogface) | Tue Mar 28 1995 13:49 | 23 |
| I built an 8x12 "modular shed" using the corrugated fiberglas panels about
13 years ago. At the time, I needed it to house rabbits during the winter
and it worked out very well as their body heat plus the solar gain kept
it above freezing all winter. I designed it in such a way that individual
"panels" framed with 2x4 and faced with corrugated fiberglas could be
connected with staging nails for the walls and laid between trusses
for the roof. I put the thing up and down twice a year for two years
and then installed it permanently in its present site about eleven years
ago. It's been standing there in the woods ever since as a storage
shed for various stuff. As Steve says, it gets dirty and stays that way,
but it's not a concern for my utilization. One weakness is that the
fiberglas has little strength. It will hold up to snow (which doesn't
stay on it long anyway with a sloped roof), but a windswept branch
will nicely puncture it without any difficulty, whereas metal will
stand up to that. I used drywall screws with homemade rubber washers
(cut from a tractor tire inner tube) to attach the panels to the framing
and never had any problem with leaks. The rubber washer not only acts as
a seal, but also prevents fracturing the fiberglas when it's snugged up.
The nice thing about it is that if you do get a roof puncture, the fix
is quite simple - clean around the edges of the hole, take another piece
larger than the hole to cover, and seal it in place with a good weatherpoof
silicone cement.
|
186.497 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Mar 28 1995 15:29 | 5 |
| re: .5
Yes, mostly flat with raised seams. It comes in colors - my neighbor
has a darkish red.
|
186.588 | Copper flashing: where to buy? | EST::RANDOLPH | Tom R. N1OOQ | Wed Apr 05 1995 13:48 | 5 |
|
Anyone know where I can find a roll of copper flashing? (Worcester-Marlboro
area)
This isn't for a home project, so I only need a small amount of it...
|
186.589 | | MOLAR::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dogface) | Wed Apr 05 1995 13:53 | 4 |
| If you need only a small amount (i.e. not a roll), I would think a phone
call to just about any roofer in the yellow pages might get you a contact
for a piece.
|
186.590 | try Home Despot | NOVA::ABBOTT | Robert Abbott | Wed Apr 05 1995 17:35 | 6 |
| Copper flashing is available at Home Despot.
You can buy step flashing: pre-cut pieces, roughly
4" x 4" in copper.
robert
|
186.591 | thanks! | EST::RANDOLPH | Tom R. N1OOQ | Thu Apr 06 1995 13:05 | 1 |
| A few 4" x 4" pieces ought to do it...
|
186.498 | Raising the roof | DELNI::FARWELL | | Thu Jun 15 1995 16:15 | 15 |
| We are considering raising the roof of our 3 bedroom ranch as an
alternative for expanding our living space. The main objective is to
gain a second bathroom. We are also looking at doing an addition as a
second alternative but this is a little less desireable that putting on
a second floor as it will consume already precious land space. I am
looking for advise from those who have gone through this or looked into
it. Should we seek an architect to go over our layout and draw up some
plans on how to implement or just look at several contractors and go
with their suggestions. I want to utilize the space in the best manor.
Anybody got any input?
Rgds,
Bob
|
186.499 | | OOTOOL::CHELSEA | Mostly harmless. | Thu Jun 15 1995 16:57 | 4 |
| My next door neighbors did this last year. I would suggest getting an
architect to do plans. This makes dealing with contractors easier --
you have them all bidding on the same specs; otherwise, you wind up
comparing apples and oranges and it gets very confusing.
|
186.500 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Thu Jun 15 1995 19:09 | 1 |
| See 3279.
|
186.472 | Xref | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, That Group | Thu Jun 15 1995 19:31 | 3 |
| 3279 AKOMON::KUMOREK 2-JUN-1989 7 Raising the roof on a ranch house
649 MRMFG3::J_FORAN 15-DEC-1986 5 Books for adding a whole second story to my house?
2335 AIMHI::POULIN 26-MAY-1988 5 HELP,Adding 2nd story to a ranch.
|
186.501 | In addition to xref in .2, see also .... | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, That Group | Thu Jun 15 1995 19:32 | 7 |
| 3279 AKOMON::KUMOREK 2-JUN-1989 7 Raising the roof on a ranch
house
649 MRMFG3::J_FORAN 15-DEC-1986 5 Books for adding a whole second
story to my house?
2335 AIMHI::POULIN 26-MAY-1988 5 HELP,Adding 2nd story to a ranch
|
186.117 | New Roof questions - me too!!! (Help!) | SALEM::MUNROER | Becca Munroe | Mon Sep 25 1995 18:22 | 20 |
| I need a new roof! (Just finished re-siding). I plan on covering the
old layer. I plan on DIY (with family assistance, of course ;)).
1) Any thingamajigs to help get the shingles up to the roof? Pulley
system? Maybe I should build my own block & tackle? I don't want
them delivered to the roof all at once, because I need to do this on
the weekends (and I want to keep the new ones out of the weather).
2) Can I put architectural shingles over "regular" old ones? Will this
look funny? The under ones are in good shape - just that the gaps in
the first course are worn away and I can see plywood (which seems to be
in OK-shape).
3) I don't want a vent along the top (I have a huge hole going out to
my addition and porch - plenty of ventilation). What do you put along
the ridge of the roof for architectural shingles? How do I cap it?
Thanks!
--Becca
|
186.118 | work fast - winter's coming... | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Mon Sep 25 1995 19:27 | 28 |
| 1) Roofers often use an open-elevator sort of thing that mounts to a
ladder, and uses a winch to crank the shingle loads up. I know
where you could buy one, but if you could afford that, you'd be
paying a roofer - so your best bet for small lots is to carry
'em up on your shoulder. Any lifting mechanism would have to be
hung from something above roof level - tricky if your roof itself
is the tallest thing, and you don't want to put holes in it.
2) While you can (subject to local codes) end up with as much as 3
layers of roofing, it's a better job if you strip it down to plywood.
This lets you repair any underlying problems, SEE them if they're
there, fix all the flashing, and lets the new shingles lay better.
If you've got exposed plywood now, you may have trouble. Removal
and disposal is a pain and messy, so that's one reason the 'pros'
will recommend avoiding it...
3) Ridge solutions are the same as any shingle, with or without
venting. Either the shingle maker makes specials or you just use
cut sections of the regular shingle.
Remove the old stuff (in sections if needed, with tarps available),
inspect and repair the deck and flashings, install tar paper, install
shingles. Be sure to follow the recommended nailing patterns, and
don't use staples - use real roofing nails, 4 minimum per panel, 6
is better. Strip the old stuff with rakes and shovels, or get a special
shingle ripping tool - just a large flat shovel.
|
186.119 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Sep 26 1995 12:08 | 28 |
| I second the recommendation to remove the old shingles. It makes for
a much better job, although it is messy and a lot of work. You can do
a section at a time. Those big blue plastic tarps are pretty cheap
and do a good job of temporarily covering up. If you can see the
plywood through the worn shingles, it would be a *real* good idea to
take off the old shingles so you can check for rot.
See if you can get a gofer to carry up the shingles. Maybe a local
high school kid or something. You can carry partial bundles at a time,
of course; a full bundle is pretty heavy when going up a ladder.
The shingle packages will give directions for installation. Read and
heed! The directions will explain how to do a ridge cap.
As per .97, use real shingle nails. I'd avoid the nails made in
Taiwan, Korea, or whatever. In my experience, the heads come off.
If you look around you can get Canadian-made nails that are good,
or possibly Spanish or Polish nails that are good. I don't know if
there are any US-made nails anymore....
I like to put drip edge along the gable ends as well as the eaves.
The galvanized stuff stands up to the weight of a ladder better than
the aluminum does, but of course the galvanized will rust, eventually.
Put a strip of the rubber membrane along the bottom edge of the roof
to guard against water damage from ice dams; if you're feeling poor
you can use 60# smooth roll roofing instead, but the rubber membrane
works better, probably.
|
186.120 | | DELNI::OTA | | Wed Sep 27 1995 17:38 | 9 |
| removing shingles is not messy, its a disaster. Our attic is used to
store many years of accumalated junk. There has got to be 2 " of crud
that fell in when they stripped my roof of shingles last week. This is
no exagerration. If you strip your roof clear your attic or cover
everthing in plastic. That stuff is so nasty you track it all over the
house. My wife and I have been vacumming for a week and a half. What
a pain in the neck.
Brian
|
186.121 | | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, Objectbroker | Wed Sep 27 1995 19:14 | 13 |
| > removing shingles is not messy, its a disaster. Our attic is used to
> store many years of accumalated junk. There has got to be 2 " of crud
> that fell in when they stripped my roof of shingles last week.
Well you must have an old house like me when I had my roof done.
On my house I had attic loaded with debri because the roof
sheething has large gaps between the pieces on purpose (I believe
they call this skip sheething, and was done to let the wood shingles
breath from underneath).
Someone with a plywood or osb sheething probably won't have this
problem (except for very minor as there should be like 1/8" gap
between the sheets to allow for expansion).
|
186.122 | | DELNI::OTA | | Thu Sep 28 1995 18:48 | 4 |
| Yes I had not realized the gap between the board till I could see
sunshine through them. What a horrific mess.
Brian
|
186.123 | Learning from one's mistakes | VMSSPT::LYCEUM::CURTIS | Dick "Aristotle" Curtis | Fri Sep 29 1995 00:24 | 22 |
| .100:
Yeah, I grew up in a house built in such fashion.
I grew up believing that the guy(s) who built it back in the '20s were
astonishingly cheap, and that they made a major contribution to the
establishment of building codes. (In fact, it may have been this
august forum where I learned the necessity of gaps to permit wooden
roof shingles to breathe.)
But even with the gaps as a requirement, they weren't spendthrifts --
I think every board had a trapezoidal cross-section, and many weren't
straight (so the gaps varied in width, big deal at the time...)
I still recall assisting my father with reroofing while in high school.
Took him much of one summer to get the front side of the roof done,
because for asphalt shingles the boards would have to be either
machined or replaced. It was a big enough PITA that he put off doing
the back until the following summer...
... and did it all with plywood.
Dick
|
186.312 | hard-to-understand roof leak | CADSYS::GRODSTEIN | | Mon Oct 02 1995 13:02 | 40 |
| I've got a leak in a two year old roof. It's over a shed dormer, with a
pitch of about 2 in 12, and is done with double-coverage roll roofing. There
is a ridge vent on top. There is no attic -- the ceiling is attached pretty
directly to the roof rafters. The leak is showing up at the lowest point in
the ceiling, right near the drip edge, about seven feet from the side of
the house.
There are a few interesting /confusing points.
1. the roof looks like it is in excellent shape. The roll roofing still looks
like new, shiny/oily and not brittle.
2. there are no stress points near the leak. The side of the house is seven
feet to the left, the nearest vent pipe is eight feet the other direction,
and the chimney is even further. I realize that leaks can travel pretty
far, but either of these would have required it crossing three separate
rafter bays in a _horizontal_ direction, without gravity to help it, before
it hit the ceiling.
3. I've spent several hours placing a sprinkler up on on the in various points
near the vents, chimney, ridge vent, etc, and cannot make the roof leak
with the sprinkler. However, it certainly does leak when it rains.
4. The ceiling is not actually dripping. Rather, it just gets very moist.
No matter how long it rains, it does not seem to drip.
One thought I had is about the ridge vent. It is a piece of what looks like
dense black foam about 1/2" thick, with shingles over it. The shingles are
overlapped side to side (in the standard manner for ridge shingles).
Several earlier notes have pointed out that shingles are not completely
waterproof, but rather work by using the roof slope to divert the water away.
So the obvious question is: since the overlapping is _sideways_, where there
is no slope at all, how do ridge shingles work? What stops water from leaking
through the ridge shingles, through the ridge-vent foam, onto the roof deck,
and eventually to my moist ceiling?
Are there any other theories or suggestions about what I should do? The
original roofer, of course, is being difficult to get a hold of, so I'm pretty
much left to my own devices or to hire another roofer.
+Joel
|
186.322 | Need access to attic dormer | VMSSPT::PAGLIARULO | | Mon Oct 02 1995 17:03 | 21 |
| This doesn't really fit under this topic but with so many roofing notes I didn't
want to create another. This seemed the best fit of all of them.
The roof of my house has a large dormer on one side. The dormer allows one side
of the house to jog out a little so a sort of "L" is formed like this:
_________
| |
| |
---------
|_|
If the dormer wasn't there the roof would be a normal cape roof. When the roof
was built the entire cape roof was sheathed and then the dormer section was
added. Now, I need to get into that dorner section of the attic but, except for
a small open space at the bottom that is too small to crawl through, it is
blocked by the sheathing on the section of cape roof behind the dormer. I want
to cut the sheathing away from between two of the rafters to get access to hte
dormer. Can I do that without causing any problem for the roof?
George
|
186.323 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Oct 03 1995 12:17 | 2 |
| re: .9
I don't see why enlarging the opening would cause a problem.
|
186.502 | Leaks in Garage Roof ??? | NETCAD::PERARO | | Mon Nov 13 1995 13:48 | 28 |
|
We seem to be having a problem with the roof on our garge. The house is
a year old and we have noticed the last couple of storms, like the
one we had this Saturday, we are getting a leak running down the
chimmney into the garage, and it soaks the wall.
We had a roofer come out and he said when the house was built they
should have done a cricket, but we don't have one. He said the
problem could be corrected, which he said he did, but in this Saturdays
past storm, we had water coming down the side again.
Our back part of our fireplace is in the garage so the chimmeny goes up
through the roof along the side of the house. He said he fixed the
flashing around the chimmney and garage roof, and made a curve so
the water will run off, but again, there was water in the gargage.
Now we are totally confused as to what is causing this leak. It
seems to run on both sides, and then makes its way down the side and onto
the garage wall. We have had no water appearing on the inside of the
house.
We've called the roofer again because what he did did not fix the
problem.
Any ideas as to what else we should be looking at??
Mary
|
186.503 | Xref | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Mon Nov 13 1995 14:14 | 5 |
| 1495 ERLANG::BLACK 8-SEP-1987 3 Roof leaks at chimney
1747 MPGS::HOFFMAN 30-NOV-1987 9 ROOF LEAK QUESTIONS ?????
2314 DELNI::GOLDSTEIN 20-MAY-1988 7 leaky roof on cross gable
2922 TARKIN::GOODY 9-JAN-1989 18 Help! Roof condensation leak...
3819 AIMHI::OFFEN 11-MAY-1990 2 Leaky Roof Between Addition and Mobile Home
|
186.504 | | TP011::KENAH | Do we have any peanut butter? | Mon Nov 13 1995 20:57 | 1 |
| So, anybody know why a cricket is called a cricket? (I don't.)
|
186.505 | | SMURF::PBECK | Rob Peter and pay *me*... | Mon Nov 13 1995 21:10 | 3 |
| It's the part of the roof that's most likely to bug you?
|
186.506 | Maybe it's related to def. 2 sub-def. 2:? | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Mon Nov 13 1995 23:48 | 10 |
| 1. crick.et \'krik-*t\ n [ME criket, fr. MF criquet, of imit. origin] 1: a
leaping orthopterous insect (family Gryllidae) noted for the chirping notes
produced by the male by rubbing together specially modified parts of the
fore wings 2: a low wooden footstool
2. cricket n [MF criquet goal stake in a bowling game] 1: a game played
with a ball and bat by two sides of usu. 11 players each on a large field
centering upon two wickets each defended by a batsman 2: fair and honorable
behavior
3. cricket vi : to play cricket - crick.et.er n
|
186.507 | The Builder?? | STRATA::GARRITY | | Wed Nov 15 1995 05:14 | 2 |
| If the house is a year old I would go back to the builder and see what
he did wrong.
|
186.508 | 3s ? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Wed Nov 15 1995 16:21 | 7 |
| Re Cricket: I'd hazard a guess that it's something to do with the
number 3 and the triangular shape of the cricket. Cricket stools and
(I think) cricket tables are three-legged with a triangular brace. The
wicket used in cricket also has three "legs".
Of course, I could be on a sticky wicket here.
|
186.509 | Out of warranty | NETCAD::PERARO | | Thu Nov 16 1995 12:55 | 16 |
|
Our warranty with the builder is up. They gave us a one-year timeframe
that they would come back to fix things. And to be honest, I'd rather
not have them do it, although I love my house, the people that they
have do things for them do them as fast as possible.
We spoke with the roofer who came the first time and he will be back
next week. We are probably going to have to put a cricket in now. This
really should have been done when the house was built.
No water this last rain, it seems it happens when we get typhoon like
conditions, and we live on a hill so the wind in the storms really
makes it worse.
Mary
|
186.512 | Is sistering of roof joists the way to go? | SEND::EIKENBERRY | John (Ike) Eikenberry | Mon Nov 27 1995 18:17 | 31 |
| New question for the ntoesfile...
My wife and I recently purchased a house and during the inspection a
problem was found in the attic. In a normal roof, the joists meet the
header beam without any major gaps. (sorry if the terminology is off -
not sure of the right names). In our roof, the joists have shrunk (?)
a bit and pulled off from the header.
Correct roof Our roof
header
###\ ###
###|\ joist ### \
###\ \ ### |\
\ \ \
\
The gap between the joist and header is only about 3/4" wide and there
are nails sticking through the header, across the gap, and into the
joist.
The house inspector indicated that this should be repaired and he
suggested that we sister the joists with another section of wood and
attach that securely to the header. During the house purchasing, we
negotiated a better price rather than have the previous owners repair
it (we didn't want lowest bidder work).
My question - is sistering the best way to go? Is there a better
method? Since we are doing it ourselves, I thought I would ask.
Thanks in advance,
Ike
|
186.513 | | MOLAR::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dogface) | Tue Nov 28 1995 02:21 | 9 |
| > In a normal roof, the joists meet the header beam without any major gaps.
> (sorry if the terminology is off - not sure of the right names).
"Rafters" and "Ridge pole/beam" work well.
Are there not collar ties in place which join the rafters on opposite faces of
the roof? If not, I'm curious as to why the inspector wouldn't have recommended
them as a remedy. If so, it would appear that re-adjusting these should be a
more preferable solution.
|
186.514 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Tue Nov 28 1995 11:22 | 11 |
| I don't see why you need to sister on additional rafters - strength
of the rafters is not your problem. As .1 points out, it sounds
much more as though there aren't enough collar ties to tie the two
sides of the roof together.
The inspector may have had the idea of putting sister rafters up
snugly against the ridge board, which would be a way (sort of) of
fixing the gap, but that's not the real problem, I don't believe.
Actually, it probably isn't a significant problem anyway.
|
186.515 | plywood tie | SMURF::WALTERS | | Tue Nov 28 1995 11:48 | 28 |
|
There were a few rafters in my previous house that were gapping like
that. The inspector didn't see it as a problem as the nailing seemed
to be correct. There should be 3 10d nails per rafter into the ridge
board, and the rafters should be notched & nailed to the top plate
(possibly the ceiling joists also.).
I don't think the usual collar beams provide much of a "tie" to rafters
at that point. They are usually installed only on every third rafter
and provide "thrust" support for roof loads. One alternative fix is
to use a thick plywood reinforcement, notched around the ridge board
and nailed into both rafters:
+---+ +---+
/ | | \
/ +-+ \
/ \
+-----------------+
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
I've seen this used on heavy slate/concrete pantile roofs where
age/weight and sagging have caused the ridge joint to pull away.
Colin
|
186.516 | More info and a question... | SEND::EIKENBERRY | John (Ike) Eikenberry | Tue Nov 28 1995 12:23 | 14 |
| Thanks for the terminolog - they will do fine.
re .1
Okay, silly questions - could someone describe what a collar tie is? I
don't think my roof has any.
re .3
As for the gap, the nails span the gap currently, however there is no
notching of the rafter. Is this a concern?
Thanks!
Ike
|
186.517 | | PACKED::ALLEN | Christopher Allen, Ladebug, dtn 381-0864 | Tue Nov 28 1995 13:24 | 43 |
| The collar ties are the horizontal pieces of wood that you smack your head into
as you're walking or crawling along the length of your attic. As .3 said,
they're usually installed every 3rd rafter or so.
ridge beam |
|
V
+-+
/| |\
/ | | \
/ | | \ <--- rafter
/ | | \
/ /+-+\ \
+-------------+
collar tie ---> / \
+-----------------+
/ / \ \
/ / \ \
The notches are at the bottom ends of the rafters, not the end at the ridge
beam. The rafters are notched to sit on the tops of the walls, and the notch
forms what is called a "bird's mouth".
\ \
\ \
\ \
\ \
notch -------------------> +--- \
| \
+---------+ | \
top plate -> | | \ \ <--- bottom of rafter
+---------+ \ \
| | +----------+
wall ---> | |
| |
-Chris
|
186.518 | a few more thoughts | SMURF::WALTERS | | Tue Nov 28 1995 14:18 | 25 |
|
It sounds OK if you have three decent nails in each joist and they are
still deep in the ridge board. Repairs like this can be a problem if
you have to sell the house in future. If you don't do it, the next
(buyers) inspector may also notice it and the buyer can use it as a
price negotiation point. If you do it, they the next inspector WILL
notice it, and will start asking all sorts of questions about why it
was done, and may even ask for a structural engineering survey.
If you take the inspector's recommendation and sister the rafters,
you'll have to toenail the sister board into the ridge board, (which
is hard to do overhead in a confined space. Unless you have a framing
nail gun!)
If you don't intend to move, then a number of reliable and quick fixes
are possible, such as angled joist hangers or metal L braces. If you
think you might sell in a few years, you may want to head off any
potential resale problems and get a structural engineers' written
recommendation for a fix. If no fix is required, then you can produce
the report to a potential buyer in future.
Just some thoughts,
Colin
|
186.510 | chimney cracks ?? | ANGST::DWORSACK | | Wed Nov 29 1995 13:27 | 17 |
| Mary, yes i have one idea.
i had a problem for a long time with a leak arould a chimney.
for years i would spread goop around it (not a great thing to do),
trying to get rid of the water that would come down the wall around
the chimney and down the roof line to the first inside wall...
finaly i just thought about it hard, and went up and inspected
the top of the chimney close, and found cracks (1/16 to 1/8
large) running thru the bricks, and also between the top
layer of cement coating on the top and the first layer of brick.
i went and got a tube of caulk (dark gray cement patch) at home
depot. used a caulk gun, and put it in every crack i could find.
No leak since...
|
186.519 | Thanks for the responses - THings to think about now... | SEND::EIKENBERRY | John (Ike) Eikenberry | Wed Nov 29 1995 13:37 | 12 |
| .5
Ahh! Those are the collar ties - yes, I've banged my head on them.
However in my attic there are about 1/3 of the way down the roof. And
there are several of them. Okay, another name to remember. Thanks!
.6
You bring up several good points, even if the fix isn't necesarily a
major structural fix. We aren't planning on moving for awhile (if we
did, I would lose a lot of friends very quickly. There were kind
enough to help move but I'm not so sure now... :-) Thanks!
|
186.520 | | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Thu Nov 30 1995 17:32 | 22 |
|
About collar ties - despite common misuse, they're only
any good if they're at LEAST 1/3 of the way down from the peak.
When they're right up near the ridge (if any) they don't really
do anything.
An ideal roof cross section is a simple triangle - the
horizontal is the attic floor joists/floor below ceiling joists,
and the two angled sides are the rafters. With all these joints
solid (actually only the bottom two) nothing can move with weight
unless the rafters break. A ridge beam is unnecessary in this case,
but is often used to simplify construction.
Most of the trouble arises when you start messing with
'cathedral' roofs, and no longer have the bottom joist at the
base of your triangle, or your rafters were'nt attached properly.
Then you get the traditional 'sag' along the ridge, as the sides
of your house fall outward. Modern truss construction varies
all of these rules, solves some problems, and introduces others...
If anyone's really interested in this stuff, I've got tons
of construction references and magazines you can read.
|
186.521 | | DSSDEV::RICE | | Thu Nov 30 1995 19:48 | 11 |
| I'd just like to add a little to what Dave just said.
With 'cathedral' roofs a ridge beam is often used to carry the roof load. In
this case the base walls have no outward force applied. Also, the beam is a
monster.
When collar ties are used you won't find a ridge beam. This is the typical roof
where they use a runner board (like a 1/2x12 board) where a ridge beam would go
otherwise.
-Tim
|
186.522 | ...and he had a crooked house... | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Thu Nov 30 1995 21:03 | 40 |
| <<< Note 5729.9 by DSSDEV::RICE >>>
>I'd just like to add a little to what Dave just said.
>With 'cathedral' roofs a ridge beam is often used to carry the roof load. In
>this case the base walls have no outward force applied. Also, the beam is a
>monster.
>When collar ties are used you won't find a ridge beam. This is the typical roof
>where they use a runner board (like a 1/2x12 board) where a ridge beam would go
>otherwise.
>-Tim
All true and useful clarifications. The point I was trying
to make is that this is often a structural decision, and it's not
intuitive to most people and many builders, so don't mess with it at
random unless you KNOW what you're doing. The various elements interact
in many different ways, and you need to know how all the parts work to
predict what'll happen.
For example - the original question! If that was a structural
ridge (sounds unlikely if it's just a single 2xwhatever) then the
gaps described are a serious problem, caused by the house getting
wider, for whatever reason. If it's not a structural ridge, then the
gap could be because the original builder cut the rafters wrong, or
didn't tie the other ends to the top plate well enough, or because the
house is getting wider...
Best fixes? the original sistering idea, for about 2' at the
top end of each rafter, would work ok. A simple collar tie just under
the ridge would work against down loads (snow) but not wind loads on
one side...but a triangular plywood collar tie, with a slot for the
ridge, applied to both sides and nailed well, would work just like the
sistering. Before doing anything, though, I'd want to know why that
gap is there. Did the builder goof? Is there a similiar gap at the
birdsmouth cut? Is the gap at every rafter, or how does it vary? Is
the house getting wider? Is the ridge sagging? How old is the house?
Good luck, and have fun.
|
186.523 | | REGENT::POWERS | | Fri Dec 01 1995 11:51 | 17 |
| > <<< Note 5729.9 by DSSDEV::RICE >>>
>
>With 'cathedral' roofs a ridge beam is often used to carry the roof load. In
>this case the base walls have no outward force applied. Also, THE BEAM IS A
>MONSTER.
>
>When collar ties are used you won't find a ridge beam.
Theoretical questions:
Where is the monster ridge beam's load transferred to to carry the roof load?
Doesn't it still have to feed down the rafters to the side walls, or is there
a gable column or something to take the load to the ground?
Even with a ridge beam, what keeps the rafters from spreading without
collar ties?
- tom]
|
186.524 | fun with building | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Fri Dec 01 1995 13:37 | 31 |
|
With a 'traditional' (floor joists, rafters, perhaps collar ties,
perhaps ridge board) roof structure or a modern truss structure, all the
loads from the roof (transmitted down through the sheathing) are carried
down by all the rafter/trusses to the building side walls (we're talking
about a simple gable here). As long as the roof triangle holds together,
you get only DOWN force on the walls - only the outside walls for a typical
truss or roof (some attic loads may also travel down through a center
partition.) The ends of the gables take very little load - only one
rafter's worth, 16" of the end of the roof. So the gable walls at the
ends of the roof are not really load bearing, and are typically built
light.
For a full cathedral, you've got no floor/ceiling joists , so
your strong triangle is broken. Each rafter is held up by a ridge
beam at the high end and the wall at the low end. The center ridge must
be STRONG and all the load from it must be carried by the gable walls,
so typically you'll have a large post running down (loads are best carried
directly down, ridge to post to foundation.) The ridge will carry 50%
of the roof load, and each side wall will carry 25% - but remember that
all that 50% goes through the ridge and down the ends, so each end wall
post gets 25% of the roof load. Wood is good in compression, so it might
just be a double or triple 2x4, or perhaps a steel column. The ridge
must not bend, though, so it'll be large - perhaps a 6x12 or larger,
depending on length. These days it'll be engineered lumber - a large
lamination of some sort. You're still left with the house wanting
to spread, though - unless the roof is flat the rafters are pushing out
on the walls as well as down, so you often get a steel rod or something
spanning the building.
|
186.525 | alternative to collar ties? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri Dec 01 1995 14:32 | 26 |
| .12
Does it say anywhere in your references if it's possible to replace
conventional collar ties with angled ties like so:?
+
/ \
/ \
/ \
/ \
/\ /\
/ \ / \
/ \ / \
+-----+---+-----+
| |
(Assuming the load can be transferred to an interior wall)
I realize that it might require planning permission or a structural
engineering survey.
Thanks,
Colin
|
186.526 | a non-answer | EVMS::MORONEY | Operation Foot Bullet | Sat Dec 02 1995 00:59 | 11 |
| re .13:
The center shape is a 5 sided figure which could sag under load. For it to do
so, however, it would have to do something unusual like lift at the outer walls
because the other 2 triangles won't distort (without breaking), assuming the
outer rafters are one piece.
So I guess the answer is "it depends", esp. on the size of the outer triangles
compared to the center shape.
-Mike
|
186.527 | | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Mon Dec 04 1995 13:03 | 13 |
|
Don't make this kind of change without checking with a real
structural engineer (or a contractor that you really, really trust.)
Better yet, check with your building inspector.
A properly done, functioning collar tie stiffens the roof
rafters against sag and keeps the roof from flattening and sagging
at the ridge. Your proposal does nothing to prevent flattening and
adds appreciable forces to the joists and interior walls, whose
condition (load bearing ability) is unknown. In general, we (your
readers) don't know anywhere near enough to comment on this sort
of situation...so check with an expert, and hope THEY know what
they're talking about...
|
186.528 | just curious | SMURF::WALTERS | | Mon Dec 04 1995 13:30 | 16 |
|
Thanks for the input. Rest assured I'll make no modifications without
the right information. I was just wondering if it could be done. The
type of roof construction that I'm most familiar with (tile/slate) uses
purlins to take the load from the rafters and transfer it to the end
walls. An angled "joist hanger" is also installed every three rafters.
The reason I asked is that during recent house hunting, I saw quite a
few attics that had been converted, to storage and a couple had
elevated collar beams, and roughed-in kneewalls.
Regards,
Colin
|
186.511 | More of the problen | NETCAD::PERARO | | Mon Dec 04 1995 19:20 | 13 |
|
The roofer came up again and said that there was a big gap between
the chimney and the house. The wood piece that the builder used to
edge it off wasn't even in place. So they fixed the gap and sealed it,
they also fixed around the flashing and sealed along there, and around
the shingles.
We reported the damage to the garage wall to the insurance company and
they have paid for us to get the repairs done on the flashing and
roofing and to get the wall fixed in the garage.
Mary
|
186.130 | | CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Fri Dec 22 1995 13:26 | 18 |
186.536 | GAF Warrantee of Defective Shinghles | POWDML::SELIG | | Tue Jan 02 1996 13:05 | 18 |
| Hasd anybody had experience with defective GAF standard 3 tab
"Sentinnel" shingles? Our roof was reshingles (stripped & shingles 8 years
ago. The roofer who did this work is no longer in business.
Last week we had Mathew Fair (MGJ Roofing and Gutters) out to remove
some ice dams and he informed me that our shingles were showing both
vertical and horizontal cracks......a product defect that he had seen
before with GAF. He indicated that GAF is standing behind their product
warrantee (20 year shingle) but their pro-rating formula came up
significantly short of 12/20 credit......especially considering that
most of the cost is in labor (restripping and reshingling.
Does anybody have experience with negotiating warantee replacement of
this sort.
Thx,
Jonathan
|
186.537 | | NETCAD::FLOWERS | High Performance Networking; Dan | Tue Jan 02 1996 13:17 | 18 |
| > Does anybody have experience with negotiating warantee replacement of
> this sort.
Sorry - no experience...
But we have the same problem (lots and lots of mostly horizontal cracks)...but
were told that since we weren't the original owner, we couldn't collect on the
warranty.
What proof did you have to show that you were the original owner?
> warrantee (20 year shingle) but their pro-rating formula came up
> significantly short of 12/20 credit......especially considering that
> most of the cost is in labor (restripping and reshingling.
Does the 12/20 credit include labor costs? who's estimate of costs?
Dan
|
186.538 | Defective GAF Shingles | POWDML::SELIG | | Tue Jan 02 1996 13:29 | 22 |
| I have all the original material receipts from Concord-Littleton lumber
and the labor bill from the roofer.
I have copies of my tax bills from '87 that show me as the original
owner of the new roof.
GAF will only cover the material costs......they say their warrantee
specifically excludes labor. Back in the '87 the material costs were
approximately $800 for 30 sq. of hingles and 3 rolls of ice/water
barrier. The labor to strip and recover 30 sq. was $1900. I'm to too
pleased at all that GAF is will probably only offer <$500 towards a
current replacement cost of over $3500.
I'd be curious what "legal recourse" I'd have to challenge this warrantee.
Normally I'm not somebody quick to summon the lawyers, but GAF's product
defect is clearly the cause of roof leaks and now the need for a new roof
replacement.
Regards,
JBS
|
186.539 | hosed | TUXEDO::MOLSON | Margaret Olson | Tue Jan 02 1996 14:25 | 18 |
| I believe that there are various kinds of group lawsuits
in progress against both GAF and Bird for defective shingles.
For all practical purposes, shingles from 86 and 87 are
ten year or less shingles, regardless of what the warranty
says. Most of the money is a roof is labor, and most houses
turn over every 7 or so years, so the shingle manufactures
have not had to make good on their advertising/guarantee.
Be glad you are the original owner. Second owners are really
hosed.
If you buy a house, assume shingles from that time period are
worthless.
Bird now sells shingles that at least have a transferable
warranty.
Margaret.
|
186.630 | Cedar Breather | MROA::CHARBONNEAU | | Mon Jan 15 1996 19:32 | 23 |
| I'm not sure if anyone been reading this section on wood roofing
lately but hopefully someone out there has some experience on this
matter. I'm currently building a saltbox that has a style that
more or less dictates a wood roof, I can't argue the point, it does
make the house look awesome. The problem is the conflicting stories
about wood roofs. The plan originally was to put White Cedar directly
on the wood sheathing. I just don't agree with this method and I've
contacted the Cedar Bureau (yup that's right, I hope we're not paying
for this) they sent me some info. and shingles on plywood is not
one of their recommendations.
There is a new product on the market calls a Cedar Breather, it is a
mess, nylon typed product that sits on top of 15lb or 30lb felt and
then the plywood sheathing. It was seen in This Old House a about
a year ago. I can't find enough supporting evidence to use this
product either.
Any one else have White Cedar Shingles..how long..and what does happen
with fireworks landing on a wood roof.
Thanks a bunch.
Dave
|
186.631 | Strap it up... or don't do it. | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Tue Jan 16 1996 12:00 | 21 |
|
My front roof is a cedar roof installed over tar paper directly on
the sheathing (no strapping). The roof os about 7 years old now and
is not aging particularly well. I have moss growing in nooks and
crannies, splitting, warping etc going on. The roof looks great for
a week or so following some good rain... but when it dries it cups
pretty badly.
When my country-carpenter father-in-law saw the house from a distance
for the first time he said "That roof ain't done right... I can tell
from here".
When it's replaced, I'll probably go with a higher-end architectural
asphalt shingle. I've seen some that have very built up shadow lines
and have a nice cedar-ish look to them. Plus, there are a number of
new products (my favorite is made out of ground up computer housings)
that are remarkably cedar-like in appearance.
Strap it up, or don't do it at all.
- Mac
|
186.632 | Corregated metal roofing discussion | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Tue Jan 23 1996 12:53 | 24 |
| Guess this would be the appropriate place to continue the
discussion of corregated metal roofing ;-)
Someone had mentioned a problem about getting the ridge to not leak
when using this. What I was thinking of was to butt the corregated up
against a wooden nailing surface (i.e. 1x6) on both sides of the peak.
The nailing surface would be used to nail the ridge vent to.
A piece of flashing would first be attached to the nailing surface
that would extend down over the upper edge of the corregated. The wooden
filler strip which you can buy to fit into the corregated that looks like
this -
_ _ _
_| |_| |_| |_
would by glued/caulked to the top of the corregated near the peak and
also covered by the same flashing mentioned aleady. This should allow the
ridge vent multiple ventilation paths (i.e. normal one + up through the
corregated itself) and hopefully prevent even the most wind blown rain
from making its way up the corregated into the ridge vent.
Comments ?
Ray
|
186.633 | it's spelled "corrugated" | REGENT::POWERS | | Wed Jan 24 1996 11:45 | 9 |
| > -< Corregated metal roofing discussion >-
In the spirit of the activities that are meant to streamline access
in this file....
Just in case anybody would be trying a search for this stuff, the proper
spelling of the word is "corrugated."
- tom]
|
186.634 | Roof - Is tar paper rqd accdng to MA code? | PCBUOA::THIBAULT | | Mon Feb 12 1996 20:34 | 19 |
| I just had a house built and moved in one month ago. I have had significant
problems with leakage thru the roof. Basically, when we had the wind storms
during january many of the shingles, (fiberglass), which had not yet sealed
were blown off the roof and water came thru in torrents.
There is no tar paper on the roof and some one this weekend at the home show
told me that it was necessary, according to Mass building codes that this
paper or membrane of some sort be installed under shingles.
How can I verify this. How do I get a copy of the code. I have called the
building inspector and he got somewhat defensive and told me it is not
required by the code. At this point I am not sure I want to depend on
info from him.
Any help!!!!!
thanks PT
|
186.635 | | UPSAR::WALLACE | Vince Wallace | Tue Feb 13 1996 15:04 | 9 |
| What I've been told is that although tar paper is required by code,
virtually nobody ever actually uses it.
I can understand why the building inspector got a bit defensive. If
the tar paper is indeed required, I suppose he might be considered
somewhat at fault for not catching the roofers skipping it.
Vince
|
186.636 | I'd follow it up | SHRCTR::PJOHNSON | aut disce, aut discede | Tue Feb 13 1996 15:55 | 10 |
| You should be able to look this up in the code, but if you can't or
don't want to, either a lawyer or pro inspector should help for a fee.
Actually, the building inspector should help for no fee, but that
doesn't sound like it's happening.
This is important, because if it is required by code, then I'd say
your builder will have to fix all of your problems. If not, it's your
bill.
Pete
|
186.637 | Warranty ? | HYLNDR::DODIER | | Tue Feb 13 1996 19:49 | 10 |
| re:634
> I just had a house built and moved in one month ago. I have had
> significant problems with leakage thru the roof.
Isn't there any sort of warranty being that this is a brand new
house ?
Ray
|
186.638 | yes there is a Warranty | PCBUOA::THIBAULT | | Thu Feb 15 1996 20:39 | 25 |
| Yes, the builder will and has come in to replace the lost shingles. However
i am not sure that the shingles not replaced havn't suffered damage. Also the
builder will come in and repair the ceiling stains by bleaching the ceilings
when he gets chance!!!!!
Also I did determine that code does not require tar paper.
<<< Note 186.637 by HYLNDR::DODIER >>>
-< Warranty ? >-
re:634
> I just had a house built and moved in one month ago. I have had
> significant problems with leakage thru the roof.
Isn't there any sort of warranty being that this is a brand new
house ?
Ray
|
186.639 | | FREBRD::POEGEL | Garry Poegel | Fri Feb 16 1996 11:24 | 9 |
|
>> <<< Note 186.638 by PCBUOA::THIBAULT >>>
>> -< yes there is a Warranty >-
The warranty on the SHINGLES might require that tar paper be used
though. I think I remember reading that on the pack of 'Bird' brand
that I used this summer.
Garry
|
186.640 | opinion | DYPSS1::SCHAFER | Character matters. | Fri Feb 16 1996 14:03 | 2 |
| i can't imagine shingling a roof without subroofing. this is just
plain bad practice.
|
186.641 | tar paper? | GIDDAY::BACOT | | Thu Feb 22 1996 20:00 | 9 |
| Speaking of tar paper...
I'm about to have my roof re-shingled. They are going to remove the old
shingles and put new ones on. Should I specify that tar paper must
be used? It is an old house (80+) and I'm not sure if there is any
under the old shingles or if it would be any good if it *is* there.
Thanks, Angela
|
186.642 | | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu Feb 22 1996 20:55 | 63 |
| > I'm about to have my roof re-shingled. They are going to remove the old
> shingles and put new ones on.
If you only have one layer of shingles on the house now, you
might want to consider a layover (most towns allow up to 2
layers), assuming the reason for removing the old shingles
isn't for a reason other than your roofers looking for a bigger
job to keep them busy in the off-season.
It sounds like however it's quite possibly 2 or more on there
already given the age of the house :-)
> Should I specify that tar paper must be used?
Most definitily put that into the estimate/contract. It
should say the amount of felt/tar paper (usually quoted
in squares which I believe are 10'x10', same for of measurement
it should say for the amount of shingles), and the weight of
the paper (I believe you'd want 15 pound paper min.).
Also seeing you have an old house, if the first layer of
shingles is still wood then you most likely will need
either a 3/8" or thicker layer of plywood/underlayment
nailed down ontop of the existing skip (WIDE gaps between
the old long plank style underlayment used for wood shingles)
sheeting/underlayment, or have the old underlayment also
stripped/removed and probably 3/4" underlayment layed down.
(I just checked and my roofer had called the old underlayment
for the wood shingles "sub deck board")
Now (when it's stripp job) is the time to also make sure you
have at least a single course of ice&water shield layed down
on all the edges and any valley's. Remember to put these
all into the estimate/contract.
Also make sure that the estimate/contract includes drip edge
all around. Plus if you have a chimmney then to lead & tar
the chimney, and if you have any vent pipes (such as for sewer)
that you specify a new boots for those (they only cost $5-10).
Also make sure that the estimate/contract specifies that *all*
roofing/construction debri be removed.
Also is now the time to make sure your roof is properly vented.
Ie. your should probably have a ridge vent installed at the
same time (and I'd have the contract specically specify the
type, and maybe even the brand, and how much as on mine I
would of liked the ridge vent to extend closer to the ends).
Make sure you contract specically says that it includes
"removal of" the shingles and whatever else is to be removed.
And don't do like I did, and pay the final payment on the day/night
that they finished the job. I'd wait for a good rain storm.
Also make sure that they leave with you any leftover bundles of
shingles since you specifically have in your contract the number
of squares of shingles are included (the guy who my roofer had
help him on my roof kept for himself like 10 bundles of leftover
shingles).
And finally, do *not* have your roof done by Clifford Rich
(at the time he called his company Artistic Exteriors out
of Brookline, NH) with out first talking to me offline :-)
|
186.643 | A different opinion | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/L31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Feb 23 1996 13:41 | 19 |
| By all means, take the old shingles off! it makes a much better job.
From one who used to be a fervent believer in felt underlayment:
Forget the felt underlayment. It doesn't do anything for you except
keep the water out while they're putting on the shingles. If they
can cover up sufficiently without it, don't worry about it. I think
you're just as well off without it, and without plywood. Plywood
makes a lousy roof deck. It's virtually waterproof, and any water
that does get under the shingles just stays there, rotting the
plywood. If you have decent decking made of boards, I think you're
much better off, because the cracks between the boards give any
water a chance to evaporate. Having done both, I know it's also a
lot easier to replace (if necessary) one rotted board at the edge of
the roof than a 4x8 sheet of plywood. Of course, if you *do* need
a new roof deck, these days you'll get plywood, but if you can use
what you've got, as is, I'd encourage you to.
The 3' rubber membrane along the edge of the roof is well worth
it, however. It really seems to work.
|
186.644 | | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Fri Feb 23 1996 14:05 | 32 |
|
I have to dissent with the previous no-paper opinion,
for one practical reason - none of the shingle manufacturers
will honor their warranty if you install them without it!
Check the instructions on the shingle packages - it'll
have all the fine print, and it WILL specify tar paper underlayment.
I can't argue about the simplicity of replacing single boards
versus plywood, but I still think the paper is a good idea. The
first reason is protection while the roof is going on, in case of
rain. The second is backup for the shingles - another water-shedding
layer to protect the wooden roof.
Skip sheathing (boards with gaps) is essential for wooden
shingles, and these shouldn't have tar paper, but this is all for
ventilation and drying of the wooden shingles - asphalt doesn't have
to dry.
I'd say strip it all down, repair the roof if needed, check
all flashing and pipe boots, replace all edge flashing properly,
use tar paper (15lb minimum), use a strip of watershield along all
eaves, valleys, and around any skylights, and use good shingles - 25
year warrany at least. The shingle cost (unless you're going for
an architectural one) is small compared to the labor, so don't skimp
here. Also be sure to specify how they're installed - don't let the
installer use staples, as they pull out too easily. Unless you've got
high winds, specify 4 nails per shingle, hand or power nailed. High
wind areas get a 6 per shingle pattern (2 per tab).
And do fix the vents while you're up there - ridge and soffit,
as required.
|
186.645 | | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Fri Feb 23 1996 14:07 | 33 |
| > If you have decent decking made of boards, I think you're
> much better off, because the cracks between the boards give any
> water a chance to evaporate.
How wide/narrow are your cracks? Mine was/is like around 3 inches
(some of that probably due to shrinkage over 130 years
like the exterior sheeting on the Action TOH). What I'd
be afraid of is that the roofer or anyone else ending up
on the roof (chimney swep, chimney mason, etc) will end
up stepping right into a crack and putting a hole in it
(never mind potentially breaking a leg or falling), or
to a lesser degree, partially pushing through a crack,
enough to damage the shingles (especially in cold weather).
Even when I bought the house, and there was 3 layers of
shingles (1st course being wood shingles), my house inspector
(famous/infamous Paul Cornel) didn't go on the roof because
he said he was afraid he'd put his foot through it.
> Having done both, I know it's also a
> lot easier to replace (if necessary) one rotted board at the edge of
> the roof than a 4x8 sheet of plywood.
I guess if an entire sheet of plywood rotted, but just like
with a board, if you've got a rotted area, I'd assume you'd
just cut out the rotted area back to the nearest rafter on
both sides, and cut a new piece to fit in??
> The 3' rubber membrane along the edge of the roof is well worth
> it, however. It really seems to work.
Just in case it's not clear to .-4, the 3' rubber membrane
is what .-3 refered to as at least a single course (width)
of Ice&Water shield.
|
186.646 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/L31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Feb 23 1996 15:47 | 9 |
| re: .645
I'd say cracks have to be less than about 1/2" for asphalt shingles.
The shingles don't have to dry out, but the deck underneath does!
If you get water backup from ice dams, it will just sit under
shingles. I stripped a roof in May, and the plywood roof deck
was still wet under the shingles from ice dam backups that winter.
(or maybe the previous winter!)
|
186.647 | | HYLNDR::BROWN | | Wed Feb 28 1996 18:47 | 10 |
|
Although there is a traditional use of 15# felt, I've found a product
called Shingle Mate by GAF to be slightly superior at about the same
cost. Anyone who has put down 15# felt will probably recognize the
system of the "wavies" if there is high moisture content while things
are being put down. It becomes somewhat loose and wavy looking as
it will absorb some moisture. The Shingle Mate has a higher resistance
to water abosorbsion, stays flatter, etc. By the way, it looks and
feels like 15# felt, maybe a little shinier.
|
186.648 | REROOFING/FLASHING PROCESS?? | POWDML::ZABEK | | Wed Mar 27 1996 11:37 | 22 |
| I'm going to reroof my house this summer and have a question concerning
the flashing on the chimney. I will be roofing over 1 layer of
shingles (and I realize stripping the layer is best - but at the moment
not practical for me) and want to know:
1. Do I shingle right over the existing shingles which cover the
flashing or..
2. Do I lift the flashing from the 1st layer and lay back down over
the 1st layer and shingle over the flashing.
and 3. Since the flashing "looks" old with smudges of tar over it,
is it possible to remove the flashing and replace it all together??
... and if so what would be the process since they're tied into the
chimney mortar. I'd have to chisel them out and remortar. Would the
new "surface" mortar be enough to secure them in?? Would I lay the
new flashing over the old shingles and roof over as normal??
Thanks for any input or response.
Steve
|
186.649 | leak? what leak? | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Thu Mar 28 1996 14:59 | 14 |
| I think you need to go read some books that describe
proper flashing. Something like a chimney, properly done, has
two types of flashing. The first is right-angled sections of
sheet metal, with the 'flat' flange down on top of shingles below
the chimney and under each row on the sides. The vertical section
justs rests up alongside the chimney. Then there's 'counterflashing',
usually lead sheet in a chimney case. This should be firmly attached
in the grout seams of the chimney, either placed in flat while the
chimney is being built or installed in a slot cut in the grout lines.
These sections lay down over the upward sections of the regular
flashing, thereby keeping water from getting in (unless it's moving
up...)
The actual details vary depending on orientation (below, side)
and slopes. It's also difficult to draw in ascii...
|
186.650 | why take off the first layer? | SLOAN::HOM | | Wed May 01 1996 20:44 | 9 |
| In .643, Steve recommends taking off the first layer. Can someone
explain the merits of a "neater" job?
I read through this string and the reasons for not taking off
the first layer is
- it's cheaper,
- the extra layer provides another water barrier.
Gim
|
186.651 | | VAXCPU::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Wed May 01 1996 22:28 | 44 |
| > In .643, Steve recommends taking off the first layer. Can someone
> explain the merits of a "neater" job?
I can't speak for Steve, but one merit may be that a layover
may not give you as an aesthetically pleasing look as a single
layer job.
Also if you've had leaks, a stripdown to the underlayment lets
you check the condition of the underlayment for rotted board
(or plywood that has started to delaminate). Checking the
condition even if you haven't had any obvious leaks may also
be worthwhile.
And of course, while I've never did a roof myself, my guess is
it may be easier to strip two single layer roofs than one double
layer roof (ie. it will save you or someone the trouble down the
road).
And as I mentioned in .642, if you do do a stripdown, it gives
you the chance to put down a course or two of ice&water shield
on the eves and vallys.
> I read through this string and the reasons for not taking off
> the first layer is
> - it's cheaper,
> - the extra layer provides another water barrier.
.... plus if you already do have ice&water shield on the roof,
a stripdown is likely to damage it, and it may also be difficult
(or impossible) to cleanly strip off the old ice&water shield
given how well it appears to stick to the underlayment when it
is layed in the first place.
BTW, I can vouch that having more than one layer of shingles
does indeed provide extra protection. When I bought my house
some parts of the roof had 3 layers of asphalt, ontop of a layer
of likely the original wood shingles. That top layer was literally
breaking up and everyday I'd find pieces of shingles on the ground.
But yet the roof never leaked. It wasn't until I paid someone
to replace the roof (I would of done it myself but everyone was
afraid to help me given the pitch of the roof and it being 2 1/2
stories up) did my roof start leaking (mostly because they screwed
up the chimney flashing, and also certain rains from the ridge
venting).
|
186.652 | | ASABET::SOTTILE | Get on Your Bikes and Ride | Thu May 02 1996 12:57 | 3 |
|
In Mass anything more than 2 layers is illegal. It has to due with fire
codes more than anything else.
|
186.653 | | 18559::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/L31 Pole HJ33 | Thu May 02 1996 14:31 | 16 |
| I'm not sure it's fire codes or structural building codes. Shingles
are *heavy*!
Why strip the roof:
As mentioned, it lets you check for rot and other damange. Ignorance
is *not* bliss when it comes to rot!
I think the new shingles last slightly longer if they aren't over an
old layer. They lay down better (flatter), it seems to me.
The flashing can be done better (even though that's no guarantee
it *will* be done better, but that's a different issue.)
Those are some reasons I can think of offhand.
|
186.654 | Reread .650 :-) | VAXCPU::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu May 02 1996 14:41 | 9 |
| > In Mass anything more than 2 layers is illegal. It has to due with fire
> codes more than anything else.
More than 2 layers is against code most everywhere these days.
However if this is in response to .650 then it doesn't apply.
The discussion is specifically when there is only one (1)
layer on the roof currently, and .650 wanted to know why Steve
recommended stripping in this case when it's *legal* to do a
layover in this case ...
|
186.655 | Stripping can really add to the cost | ENGPTR::MCMAHON | DEC: ReClaim TheName! | Thu May 02 1996 17:00 | 17 |
| And if cost is an issue, then check into how much it will be to get the
old shingles carted away and legally dumped. I believe that asphalt
shingles are considered hazardous waste and this can really boost the
cost of disposal.
Just another thing to think about.
BTW: I did my own roof about 5 years ago. I had a roofer come out and
check out the existing roof and give me an estimate. He said that since
the shingles weren't cupping, I could add a second layer without
stripping the first. If I wanted the roof stripped, it would have added
about $2500 to the cost. I had the shingles delivered to the roof
(worth the $50). Roofing isn't that difficult, it's mostly gruntwork. I
saved about $1000 on a 5 room ranch by doing it myself and that's for
12.5 square.
Pat
|
186.656 | | VAXCPU::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu May 02 1996 17:57 | 24 |
| > And if cost is an issue, ...
> Just another thing to think about.
.650 already listed that :-)
> If I wanted the roof stripped, it would have added about $2500 to the cost.
You should of gotton another estimate, or waited til the off-season
to get your roof done. $2,500 to doa tear down (and debri removal)
is WAY overpriced. Sounds more like this roofer was either milking
you real good, or just wasn't interested in doing a job that required
more work than the very simple layover.
For comparision, it cost me around $3,600 to have my roof stripped
of 2 and 3 layers (some parts only had 2, the rest 3) of asphalt
shingles, and a single layer of wood shingles, dumping charges,
a layover of 3/8" plywood (old house and the gaps in the strip sheating
which is fine for wood shingles ...), ice & water shield on all eves
and the valley, 15# felt, and bird shingles. And this is on a
2 1/2 story high roof, with a steep pitch.
$2,500 to strip a single layer of asphalt shingles and dispose of it
is as I've said, not realistic, unless your the size of your roof is
very very large ....
|
186.657 | | BIGQ::HAWKE | | Thu May 02 1996 18:25 | 7 |
| I did the roof on my last house after a couple of 3k estimates.
I saved about 2k used ice and water shield 25 yr shingles (est for
20 yr shingles) and stripped 2 layers off. At the time my local
landfill accepted the shingles so that worked out well.
as always YMMV
Dean
|
186.658 | Dumpster wasn't *that* expensive!!! | CHIPS::LEIBRANDT | | Fri May 03 1996 01:49 | 12 |
|
I agree $2500 seems outrageous just for stripping...($250/hr???)
When I did my roof last year (with help), I rented a dumpster for disposal
of the the old shingles (1 layer, about 18 sq) and several sheets of
rotten plywood, total cost was about $325 for a 20 yarder. I did the
stripping myself, and it took the better part of a day,(actually, two 1/2
days).
YMMV...
/Charlie
|
186.659 | removal can be expensive | MAET11::SEGER | This space intentionally left blank | Fri May 03 1996 12:21 | 12 |
| while $2500 sound like big bucks to me too, I wouldn't be surprised with a
price in the $1K range or more! When I tried to find out how much it would
cost me to get my old shingles carted away (after ME doing the stripping) the
best I could find was a small dumpster for around $400.
it turned out my town dump (actually a transfer station) allows you to dump a
pickup truck full of construction material for $75 a load. only having a dodge
caravan, I negotiated multiple trips with that for the $75. since the car was
on it's last legs it didn't matter to me that I'd be finding bits and pieces of
shingles for the next year...
-mark
|
186.660 | $95/SQ (LABOR ONLY) for Strip & Reshingle | POWDML::SELIG | | Fri May 03 1996 15:13 | 8 |
| I just got an estimate of $3800 (labor only) from a NOTES recommended
roofer to strip and reshingle 40 Sq on a multi-level colonial.
The estimate does not include materials or dumpser service. This is the
first estimate I've received; I'll definately be talking to other
contractors for competitive bids.
|
186.661 | | STAR::BALLISON | | Fri May 03 1996 15:32 | 6 |
| $35 per square should be the going rate for architectural shingle
installation for a new roof. I got several bids in that area for my
new house. (8 gables and about 50 squares of shingles). I think it
also cost $20 for each skylight they had to go around.
|
186.662 | More on metal roofing | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Fri May 03 1996 17:06 | 33 |
| I've been kicking around the metal roofing idea, with "looks"
being the primary obstacle. Since I spent some time in Penn. on vacation
last week, I got to see a number of houses with metal roofing. Some had
the "terne" type, and others had the square patterned baked-on enamal
corregated.
Perhaps it was because there were other nearby houses that had it,
but it did not appear (to me anyway) to look chintzy, like I expected
it to. It actually looked kind of nice, but I didn't see any Gambrel
type house done with it either. I called around and found a supplier
that sells the corregated in custom lengths up to 40' for $1.97 / lin.
ft. based on ~30 square (initially miscalculated roof size). It's 38"
wide, and meant to cover 36" with a 2" overlap.
My house is about 23 sq., and allowing for about $25 a square for
shingles, and 4 rolls of I&W shield, materials come in at just over
$800. To go the metal roof would be about $1500 for the same roof. The
finish had a limited 20 year warranty.
Being that more and more dumps are classifying shingles as
hazardous waste, I'm wondering why you don't see more of it. A roofing
job for most residential roofs could probably be done in a day. You'd
never have to worry about exposing the roof to rain, leaks due to ice
dams, or disposal costs. A recycling center would most likely take (and
probably pay scrap metal prices for) the old roofing when it needed
replacement.
This is more to pass along info I've found out about, rather than
ask a question. As usual, I'm open to comments about it too. About the
only question I might have based on what I've seen so far is why it's
not more prevalent in this area ?
Ray
|
186.663 | standing seam questions | SMURF::FRANKLIN | | Tue May 28 1996 12:09 | 12 |
| We're considering putting a standing seam metal roof on a new house.
Any Southern NH refernces for installers? The new house site is near
the top of a hill and very windy (current residents are complaining
about shingles blowing off roofs) so we think that this might be the
best option - IF - we can find someone experienced in installing them.
Part of the roof will be over a cathedral ceiling. Any reason not
to using standing seam over a cathedral?
Thanks,
Patsy
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186.664 | Work backwards maybe ? | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Tue May 28 1996 14:39 | 12 |
| I had found a wholesale only source for the material in the
Manchester phone book. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name of the
place. I couldn't find any installers, but I wasn't really looking.
The point is, perhaps the wholesaler could tell you who they've
sold to, which would give you the info you're looking for.
Ray
BTW - Be prepared to spend some bucks. These roofs are not cheap. Rough
guesstimate will be 2-3 times what a conventional shingled roof will cost
you.
|
186.665 | | SMURF::FRANKLIN | | Mon Jun 03 1996 18:10 | 22 |
| Good advice! I've considered contacting a manufacturer (but none are
local). They should be able to recommend a local distributor and they
may have installer names.
I've been trying to read every article and manufacturers info sheet
I can get my hands on to do my homework before quizing installers
on their experience, installation and materials.
We're planning to build a new house on a high lot near a lake = very
windy. My husband had a house in Vermont with a standing seam roof.
They're pretty common in Vermont evidently.
Between the wind and last winters ice dams we're hoping this could
be an alternative to traditional roofs.
The articles I've read claim that pricing should be $150/square, twice
the price of an asphalt roof,...
*IF* they last 50+ years the price may be worthwhile to avoid dealing
with the problems of a leaky roof. I'll add info when I get it.
-patsy
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186.666 | Angle/Weaving help... | ICS::POMEROY | Swallowing Colors of the Sound I Hear | Fri Jun 28 1996 14:21 | 18 |
| Hi All,
I am adding a Screen house to an existing deck this weekend. I will be
putting a dormer style roof onto it as well. The 2 questions I have
are:
1.) I have a 5 pitch on the roof on my house..What is the angle of a
5 pitch or how do I figure it out....I can't remember math these
days.
2.) Can anyone offer me instructions on how to weave the new shingles
to the existing shingles when dojng valleys.
Thanks in advance for the help,
Regards,
Kevin
|
186.667 | you'll probably want to measure it.. | TEKVAX::KOPEC | we're gonna need another Timmy! | Fri Jun 28 1996 15:14 | 16 |
| well, it depends on what you mean by "5 pitch" ..
it could be:
"5 in 12", or 5" per foot. 22.6 degrees (atan (5/12))
"fifth pitch", or rise=1/5 the total width of the building.
Neither exactly matches the term "5 pitch". Neither is uncommon,
but I'd guess it's 5 in 12. Easy to measure, though..
You may find that for a lot of things it's easier to think in
terms of "5 in 12" than in terms of angles..
...rom
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186.668 | roofer suggestions-shrewsbury, ma | BUSY::JPIERCE | | Wed Aug 14 1996 13:25 | 8 |
| Looking for a roofer (need new roof - second one) in the Shrewsbury, MA
area - someone who is reliable and affordable.
I would appreciate any suggestions you might have!
Thanks!
Jeanne
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186.669 | | 2082::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Aug 14 1996 13:35 | 3 |
| Look at note 2027 and replies for recommendations.
Steve
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186.670 | | BIGQ::GARDNER | justme....jacqui | Thu Aug 15 1996 13:49 | 6 |
|
I just heard that there is a place in Worcester that sells
"seconds" of shingles for a REALLY low price. The person
couldn't think of the name but it sounds like it might be
something for DIYs to search out. How many of us get that
up close and personal to our roofs???
|
186.671 | | 19096::BUSKY | | Thu Aug 15 1996 15:30 | 20 |
| > I just heard that there is a place in Worcester that sells
> "seconds" of shingles for a REALLY low price. The person
The Grossman's store on WestBoylston St (Rt.12 North) is now a
"seconds" type of store. They have weekly ads in the local Sunday
paper advertizing bargins on things from building materials to
consumer items. It sounds like a real eclectic mix of items and
seems to vary from week to week.
I've never been there, so I can't say for sure.
> something for DIYs to search out. How many of us get that
> up close and personal to our roofs???
Looks aside, I'd be more interested in/worried about the quality
and longevity of my roof shingles.
Charly
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186.672 | | DELNI::OTA | | Thu Aug 15 1996 18:17 | 6 |
| Why would someone want to save a few bucks on something that sits on
your roof in the worst kinds of weather, in blistering sun that should
last you 50 years. Why take a chance in buying seconds for something
that critical?
Brian
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186.673 | in Fitchburg too | BIGQ::HAWKE | | Thu Aug 15 1996 18:37 | 4 |
| I'VE seen the recent grossmans ad that has unbundled (loose)
shingles at attractive prices. FWIW
Dean
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186.674 | | 18559::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome SHR3-1/C22 Pole A22 | Fri Aug 16 1996 15:35 | 9 |
| re: .672
50 years is a bit optimistic (20-30 is more like it) but I
certainly agree with your basic point: in the big picture,
the cost of the shingles is trivial compared to the cost
(and work) of putting them on.
Not to say it doesn't make sense to look for good prices, but
I certainly won't compromise on quality, at all.
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186.675 | | REGENT::POWERS | | Mon Aug 19 1996 12:58 | 3 |
| On the other hand, the average tenure of a family in a given house is
still only 7 to 10 years, so even one set of average shingles can last
a couple of residencies.
|
186.676 | Metal roofing - more to come | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Mon Sep 09 1996 14:01 | 11 |
| I got a call from NH Exteriors the other day and set-up an
appointment to look at their metal roofing. They sell and install
what I was looking for and mentioned a few notes back, which is
colored corregated.
I'll be looking at prices and warranties, and will post what I find
here in case anyone is interested. I'm considering this vs. a conventional
roofing to fix the ice dam problems once and for all. The roofing is
available in lengths up to 40'.
Ray
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186.677 | | SMURF::PBECK | It takes a Village: you're No. 6 | Mon Sep 09 1996 14:06 | 3 |
| > colored corregated [sic].
Yes, but is it correlated color coordinated corrugated?
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186.678 | Mega $ roof system | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Wed Sep 11 1996 12:27 | 16 |
| re:676
Well, it's back to the drawing board. The telemarketing droid I
spoke with on the phone used the term corrugated. What they sell is
actually an aluminum cedar-shingle-look-a-like panel roof system.
They only sell it installed, so I couldn't even get any idea of the per
panel cost, nor access to them if I wanted to do it myself.
Although it looked nice, when I asked how much it would be I just
got a "it will be 5 digits" response. It's a lifetime roof that has a
tranferable guarentee. After talking to the guy for less than 2 minutes,
he knew that's not what I was looking for, at least price range wise. My
roof is approx. 30 squares in size, which makes this stuff over $300 a
square installed !!! They don't even strip the singles for that price.
Ray
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186.679 | $340/square for lightweight concrete | SSDEVO::JACKSON | Jim Jackson | Wed Sep 11 1996 16:23 | 15 |
| Re: .678
I'm not surprised at your price of over $300/square.
In Colorado Springs, the average roof lifetime is 7 years. My
eight-year-old cedar shingle roof was totaled in a recent hail storm.
Because I'm in a designated "hillside" area, city code requires me to
replace the roof with something with a class A fire rating. Because of
local covenants, I'm restricted to fire treated cedar or lightweight
concrete tiles.
For 38+ squares, I'm being quoted $13K for the lightweight concrete, $11.5K
for fire treated cedar, and $10K for regular cedar. That's $340/square for
a "50-year" roof, or $260/square just to replace what I have now. Quotes
include removing old cedar shingles and full cleanup.
|
186.680 | Well, this may be competitive for you, but... | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Wed Sep 11 1996 18:39 | 14 |
| The key thing here is that the price does NOT include stripping the
existing roof. This step alone probably adds a couple grand to the
bottom line. The intent here is to go right over the existing shingles.
Also, this roof system comes in panels, which means it is also faster
to install (read - less labor) than any sort of traditional roof. I
expect the material costs to be higher, but the lack of labor does
nothing to offset this.
In essence, large profits are being made by the sales and/or
supplier. You're also paying big $$$ for what amounts to insurance
via the lifetime warranty. Too bad. It looked kind of nice.
Ray
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186.681 | OK to do roofing in extreme cold? | NETCAD::MORRISON | Bob M. LKG2-A/R5 226-7570 | Sun Nov 03 1996 14:30 | 11 |
186.682 | | NETCAD::MORRISON | Bob M. LKG2-A/R5 226-7570 | Sun Nov 03 1996 14:31 | 1 |
186.683 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | How serious is this? | Wed Nov 06 1996 15:49 | 9 |
186.684 | Our contractor said he worked in the winter... | BASEX::EISENBRAUN | John Eisenbraun | Thu Nov 07 1996 15:41 | 17 |
186.685 | a sunny day will do it | CPEEDY::BRADLEY | Chuck Bradley | Thu Nov 07 1996 20:48 | 7 |
186.686 | A shingle sandwich? | AOSG::CHALMERS | | Tue Nov 12 1996 20:09 | 27 |
186.687 | weight | VAXCPU::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Tue Nov 12 1996 21:15 | 5 |
186.688 | "strip and go with 1/2"" | HNDYMN::MCCARTHY | A Quinn Martin Production | Tue Nov 12 1996 21:44 | 7 |
186.689 | Another alternative | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Wed Nov 13 1996 15:24 | 24 |
186.690 | always fix the roof first... | PCBUOA::TARDIFF | Dave Tardiff | Wed Nov 13 1996 19:23 | 20 |
186.691 | Shouldn't have to paint | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Wed Nov 13 1996 20:40 | 6 |
186.692 | Follow-up on roof work in winter | NETCAD::MORRISON | Bob M. LKG2-A/R5 226-7570 | Thu Nov 14 1996 13:07 | 10 |
186.693 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | How serious is this? | Thu Nov 14 1996 14:27 | 6 |
186.694 | or go up on the roof w/a blow torch :-) | VAXCPU::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu Nov 14 1996 14:54 | 6 |
186.695 | noise factor ?? | PERFOM::MATTHES | | Mon Nov 18 1996 15:49 | 6 |
186.696 | Sort of... | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Mon Nov 18 1996 17:18 | 10 |
186.697 | | SMURF::PBECK | It takes a Village: you're No. 6 | Mon Nov 18 1996 19:45 | 11 |
186.698 | Metal Roofs Pop! | SALES::SIMMONS | | Tue Nov 19 1996 11:21 | 13
|