T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
198.1 | | ELGAR::LEWIS | | Mon Jan 20 1986 15:38 | 11 |
| Sounds like a very slow leak of the flush valve. It might just need cleaning.
What to look for is kind of a round flap at the center of the tank bottom
that covers a pipe. This is what gets opened when you flush. If its not
sitting tight, it can leak unnoticeably and occasionally the tank will refill
when the water level has dropped a little. I hope I interpreted your question
as meaning that you hear water running occasionally and not that it actually
flushes itself at random times.
Good luck.
- Rich
|
198.2 | | SIVA::PARODI | | Mon Jan 20 1986 15:51 | 10 |
| It may also be that the valve mechanism has just worn out. Older tanks have
a ball-on-a-slider mechanism instead of the newer flap valve at the bottom
of the tank. After 15 or 20 years immersed in water, the ball can stick
as it travels down the slider because the whole mechanism gets grungy/corroded.
In any case, it's fairly easy and cheap to replace the entire thing -- ask
the counter person at a hardware or plumbing-supply store. In the meantime,
you can often stop the running water by jiggling the flush handle.
JP
|
198.3 | | Q::ROSENBAUM | | Tue Jan 21 1986 19:39 | 3 |
| also..
If this is a fairly new installation, the chain between the handle
and the flapper might be set too tightly.
|
198.4 | | FURILO::JOHNSON | | Wed Jan 22 1986 13:54 | 13 |
| This may seem like a strange question but do you get your water from a well
or town? IF its from a well what may be happening is the toilet does not
fill up all the way sometimes because well pressure is down. When pressure
drops low enough to kick it in water gets pumped back up to max pressure. At
some point this higher pressure level forces the toilet valve open again
to put more water in. At this point the toilet seems to come to life on
its own.
Just a thought,
it happens to our toilets all the time
peter
|
198.5 | <<Tricky Trickle>> | WILLIE::TIMMONS | | Fri Mar 07 1986 15:30 | 21 |
|
Had this happen to me once...
I kept hearing water running into the toilet. I have the type of
tank whereby an arm directs the stopper. The arm is adjustable,
so I adjusted. And adjusted. And adjusted. Nothing seemed to
help.
Then I found the REAL culprit. A plastic tube extends into an opening
at the rear of the tank. After the stopper is in place, this tube
provides a slow supply of water into the bowl. The outlet end of
the tube was so far down into the opening, it was below the level
of water in the tank. It was being siphoned out!
As the tube was plastic, it would not stay in one place. So, I
took about 1 ft. of solid copper wire, removed from leftover Romex,
put it into the tube, and then formed the wire/tube so that it would
remain in the opening, but now fall below the water line. Works
like a champ!!
Lee
|
198.6 | <<OOPS in .5>> | WILLIE::TIMMONS | | Fri Mar 07 1986 15:32 | 3 |
| Ref .5
Last line should read "Not fall below water line". Sorry
|
198.7 | Replaced the rubber... | COOKIE::HOE | | Mon Jun 02 1986 20:12 | 5 |
| My similiar problem was repaired only when I replaced the rotted
rubber gasket that was between the nylon/rubber flush valve and
the tank.
/cal
|
198.21 | Toilet flange too high | CHARON::BEMPKINS | | Thu Jul 03 1986 15:09 | 18 |
| I HAVE A problem with a plubing project I am currently doing.
I'm in the process of installing a bathroom in the second floor
of an unfinished Cape. THe contractor who built the house roughed
in the drains and feeder lines but he did something strange on the
toilet drain. The T into the main drain seems to be placed too
high so that the drain pipe extending out from the T is not low
enough below the subflooring. When I put a short-sweep 90 degree
ell on the drain pipe the floor flange ends up between 1 & 2 inches
above the top of the subfloor. (The drain pipes are all PVC)
Anyone ever come up against this problem? Any suggestions?
I've heard a few.... eith er move the drain T down (a difficult
job) or put the toilet up on an elevated box which might be unsightly.
I want the job to look good.
Scott
|
198.22 | | LATOUR::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Thu Jul 03 1986 18:17 | 13 |
|
1. Are you try-fitting the connections dry? Sometimes, they slide
together quite a bit more when the cement is applied. When try-fitting
in tight places, I've sometimes had to apply a little dish detergent
to the joints to get them to bottom out (then wash well and clean
with PVC cleaner before cementing).
2. Are you applying the floor flange over the *finished* floor surface
(that is, over any plywood layers, vinyl, ceramic tile, etc)?
3. Is there any excess at the top of the elbow, that you can trim
off and still get a good connection with the flange?
|
198.23 | Did you try a street elbow | NOVA::PAL | Paul Lemaire | Thu Jul 03 1986 22:51 | 22 |
| -> When I put a short-sweep 90 degree
-> ell on the drain pipe the floor flange ends up between 1 & 2 inches
-> above the top of the subfloor.
Do you mean a street elbow? A street elbow is male on one end and female
on the other. You could fit the male end directly into the flange without
an intermediate stub of pipe.
==============
| | <- FLANGE
| |
| | <- You may be able to cut a bit off here
| | | |
| | ____ ---- | S |
\ \______/ --------------------------- \___| T |
\ STREET ELBOW PIPE A |
\_________ ___ C |
\____ --------------------------- ____/ | K |
| |
| |
|
198.36 | Basement toilet needs two flushes | CLT::ZIMAN | | Fri Jul 11 1986 17:07 | 13 |
| I have a problem with the bathroom toilet in the basement
of my split. It needs to be flushed twice in a row before it
actually flushes. The first time it fills with water and the
second actually flushes. The owner before me finished off the
basement and I believe he installed the bathroom. With the
cost of a plumber visit so high I was wondering if anyone
had any ideas on what the problem might be or things to check.
Any help would be appraciated.
thanks
-lz
|
198.37 | Time to climb inside (yuk) | MAY11::WARCHOL | | Fri Jul 11 1986 17:16 | 7 |
| Sounds like the ball or flapper valve that opens to allow the water
from the tank to empty and flush the waste away has developed a
leak and the water runs out between flushes. What I don't understand
is why the toilet isn't running (trying to fill) all the time. If
this is the case then what may be happening is that the ball valve
is not seating properly and the first time that you flush you seat
it well enough to allow the tank to fill.
|
198.38 | Water savers are cute... | JAWS::AUSTIN | Tom Austin @UPO - Channels Marketing | Fri Jul 11 1986 17:58 | 17 |
| Look inside the tank.
Is there a water saver inside of it? If so, remove the water saver
or the bricks or whatever is reducing the volume of water the tank
stores and try it again.
Otherwise, look at the float valve and the water level in the tank
when it stops filling. If it 'fills up' (i.e. shuts off flow into
the tank) when the water level is still low, you have to adjust
the float (probably by bending the arm it's on ... carefully) so
that the tank fills more completely before the valve shuts off the
water flow.
If you do try to bend the arm, do it carefully -- if you aren't
careful, you can break the valve the arm is connected to or you
can break the float... if you want to break something, destroy the
float ... it's cheaper (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-: (-:
|
198.39 | Check the filler tube | LATOUR::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Mon Jul 14 1986 17:03 | 0 |
198.40 | Check the filler tube | LATOUR::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Mon Jul 14 1986 17:44 | 38 |
|
> I have a problem with the bathroom toilet in the basement
> of my split. It needs to be flushed twice in a row before it
> actually flushes. The first time it fills with water and the
> second actually flushes.
What "fills with water" on the first flush - the bowl? If there
is little or no water in the bowl after the toilet has been flushed
successfully and the tank is again full, the problem is probably the
filler tube. This is a narrow tube that originates at the float valve
and is clipped onto the overflow tube so that it discharges down the tube.
While the tank is refilling, this tube carries a small flow of water
from the float valve, down the overflow tube and into the bowl,
to establish the proper water level in the bowl for the next use.
To see if this is the problem, slowly pour water from a pail into
the bowl until the level will rise no higher (this level is set
by the height of the trap that is built into the toilet pedestal).
With the proper amount of water in both the bowl and the tank, you
should witness a successful flush:
o water from the tank causes the level in the bowl to rise,
starting water movement through the trap;
o vigorous water movement through the trap siphons the remaining
water out of the bowl, which appears to empty for a moment;
o as the tank fills, a small flow through the filler tube
reestablishes the water height in the bowl and the trap.
In toilets that are tuned to use minimal water, a low level in either
the tank or the bowl will usually botch the action. However, if
the tank was habitually low, I would expect the toilet to rarely
if ever flush properly. If the bowl level is low, the first flush,
while not creating enough momentum to completely evacuate the bowl,
could leave behind enough water to create the proper momentum during
the second flush.
|
198.41 | | CLT::ZIMAN | | Tue Jul 15 1986 13:57 | 13 |
| The tank fills fine but there may not be enough water in the bowl.
I did fill the bowl up with water and it flushed fine....now
how to I modify the mechanism to allow more water to go to the bowl.
It appears that right after a flush the most water goes into the
bowl and then it trickles in after that. The mechanism in the
tank looks simple enough but I'm not sure what needed to
changed. BTW there aren't any water saving devices in the
tank.
thanks
-lz
|
198.42 | BEND THE ROD | JAWS::AUSTIN | Tom Austin @UPO - Channels Marketing | Tue Jul 15 1986 14:17 | 9 |
| If you have a float on the end of a brass rod (10-14 inches long)
and the float-rod assembly operates the valve that fills the tank,
then hold the rod end that attaches to the valve securely and bend
the rod so that the float goes up higher in the tank (and the water
level goes higher in the tank) before the valve shuts off. Be careful
not to apply force to the valve itself while bending the rod --
some valves can be broken quite easily -- and make sure that the
float isn't so high that the water continues to run while it's dumping
down the overflow tube.
|
198.43 | | LATOUR::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Tue Jul 15 1986 16:49 | 23 |
| Re: .4, .5, .6
If the toilet flushes OK after putting water into the bowl, the
problem is *not* the water level in the tank. Either the filler
tube is not connected to the overflow tube, or water flow through
the filler tube is restricted.
1. Make sure that the filler tube is attached to the top of the
overflow tube, so that it discharges down the overflow tube while
the tank is refilling.
2. While the tank is refilling, you should see a steady stream of
water flowing out of the filler tube, down the overflow tube,
and into the bowl. If the water is trickling or not flowing,
remove the tube and make sure that it is clear. Remove the top of
the float valve and check for obstructions at the filler tube port.
If you can't get a steady stream after cleaning, replace the float
valve.
3. As a temporary fix, after flushing and while refilling, depress
the flush handle just enough to raise the flapper valve a crack
and allow a trickle of water into the bowl, until the bowl level
looks OK.
|
198.24 | < all systems are go!!> | CHARON::BEMPKINS | | Fri Jul 18 1986 18:41 | 8 |
| Thanks for the replies... I ended up trimming the top of the street
elbow enough to reduce the height of the flange. With the addition
of the subflooring and underlayment, the flange sits right on
top of the floor like it should.
Thanks again.
Scott
|
198.54 | Sweating toilet - washer drainage | STAR::FARNHAM | Sheep must go. | Mon Jul 21 1986 20:22 | 16 |
|
Two plumbing-related questions:
1. What to do about the condensation that forms on the outside of
a toilet tank? We have a deep (300'+) well, and the cold well
water turns the humid summer New England air into a puddle on
my bathroom floor.
2. Our washer has difficulty pumping the approx. 5 vertical feet
from its basement location to our waste line. Does anyone
have experience with laundry tub/pump installations? I'm interested
in cost of materials/difficulty of installation/sources of materials
(in the Nashua area).
Stu
|
198.55 | Something for question #1 | PAXVAX::NAYLOR | Mark E. Naylor | Tue Jul 22 1986 00:50 | 10 |
| 1. I know of two possible solutions - one is easy, the other is
more involved. You can line the tank with foam rubber (1/2"
thick is enough). I even think some hardware stores sell
liners specifically for tanks. If that does not work, the
only thing I know to do is install a temperature value that
will add some hot water to the cold to raise the temperature
of the water in the tank.
Mark
|
198.56 | ANOTHER VOTE FOR LINERS | BEAUTY::SMICK | Van Smick | Tue Jul 22 1986 12:05 | 12 |
| I went the liner route with excellent results!
Grossman's had a kit for ~$10 which included 1/2" styrofoam and
an adhesive. The styrofoam was sliced so it was easy to shape it
into the front corners. The only catch is you have to let the adhesive
dry for at least 17 hours. I put one in on a damp Sunday, and had
to let it dry for 48 hours.
But the results were well worth it, no sweating, no puddles, and
no problems!!
|
198.57 | | STAR::FARNHAM | Sheep must go. | Tue Jul 22 1986 12:26 | 10 |
|
re: .2
Sound like I could buy a sheet of rigid foam insulation and a
can of contact cement (or other waterproof adhesive and make my
own kit.
re: .0: What about the "pump-up" laundry tub?
|
198.58 | Try an electric bilge pump | CACHE::BRETSCHNEIDE | | Tue Jul 22 1986 12:48 | 6 |
| It may not be the cheapest way to go, but what about using a Jabsco
110v bilge pump? They will pump at least 5 gpm. If that isn't
enough, you can get larger ones that will pump more. They cost
a lot more too.
bb
|
198.59 | | STAR::FARNHAM | Sheep must go. | Tue Jul 22 1986 12:51 | 11 |
|
re: .4
Can you quantify "not the cheapest" and "a lot more"?
Also, I'd prefer whatever I install to operate automatically (a
la a sump pump) so that we don't have a flood it we forget to
turn the theing on.
Stu
|
198.60 | Pump prices coming | CACHE::BRETSCHNEIDE | | Tue Jul 22 1986 21:15 | 7 |
| Sorry for the lack of clarity with respect to the prices of the
Jabsco pumps. It was so long ago (1974) that I bought one that
I am not sure any more exactly how much it cost, but I remember
that it seemed to be somewhat expensive. I think that the 25 gpm
model cost somewhere around $125 back then, but it sure could move
water. I will call a local pump dealer and find out what
they cost these days. I will post the results here.
|
198.61 | $75 pump made by TEEL | MAY11::WARCHOL | | Wed Jul 23 1986 14:55 | 5 |
| I general purpose centrifugal pump is listed in the W. W. Grainger
catalog for around $75. It is a non self priming (not needed since
it will be below the sink) but does not have a automatic switch
set up. I'm sure that you could rig up something with a sump pump
switch for about $10.
|
198.62 | How inexpensive is real cheap ? | EUREKA::REG_B | Ninety nine .9 percent TV free | Wed Jul 23 1986 21:41 | 9 |
| I don't know who makes them, but Northern Hydraulic (number and
address elsewhere in this conference) lists an automatic bilge pump
for boats at $28, 600 GPH, with a magnetic switch, 12V of course.
It looks very much like the Selmer (sp ?) pump that I see advertised
for lots more; also 12V, a claimed "feature" so that you have sump
pump when storms simultaneously take out power and flood your basement.
Reg
|
198.63 | Jabsco info - finally | CACHE::BRETSCHNEIDE | | Fri Jul 25 1986 13:13 | 20 |
| Sorry for the delay in getting back with the data on Jabsco pumps,
but I couldn't access this file for several days. I called a Jabsco
distributor and found the following:
Model # HP Capacity $ Comments
12210 1/12 3.4 gpm 117 Sleeve brgs on motor
12510 1/6 2.8 " 233 Ball brgs-heavy duty
12520* 1/6 6.0 " 223
11810* 1/3 10.0 " 261 capacitor start
*in stock
As I said, this isn't the cheapest way to go, but I know that these
pumps last. For those prices, they should do that though. Honestly,
they are more expensive than I thought. I would have guessed more
like $50 for the cheapest one to something like $150 for the most
expensive.
bb
|
198.64 | switches avail separately, too | Q::ROSENBAUM | Rich Rosenbaum | Fri Jul 25 1986 17:07 | 8 |
| Also, you should be able to buy a mercury float switch separately,
if necessary.
My pump (42 gpm!) has a float switch that terminates in a 110V plug/socket
combination that fits between the pump plug and the wall outlet.
The float is fastened onto the outlet pipe, near the pump.
__Rich Rosenbaum
|
198.65 | Where and how much (again) | JOET::JOET | Thela hun ginjeet | Fri Jul 25 1986 19:41 | 9 |
| re: .10
Where can you get such a switch? What do they cost. Spag's doesn't
have them and I really need one.
-joet
P.S. I assume that you're talking about a rubber ball kind of thing
that closes an internal mercury switch when it floats.
|
198.66 | good question.. | BOEHM::ROSENBAUM | Rich Rosenbaum | Sun Jul 27 1986 18:16 | 15 |
| re: where do you buy a float switch..
Yes, it is a rubber ball with an internal mercury switch.
Where do you find 'em? Good question. A plumbing supply distributor,
I guess. The trick is to get them to sell you something if you're
not a contractor.
Sorry I don't have a better answer.
__Rich
The reason I said you should be able to get them separately is that
mine broke, and my plumber just replaced the switch. {later, the
pump broke, too, but that's another story..}
|
198.81 | Leaky toilet | SUPER::MATTHEWS | Don't panic | Thu Jul 31 1986 19:38 | 16 |
| I had to take the tank off my toilet (to remove some wallpaper behind
it). While I was at it, I decided to replace the big round gasket
between the tank and the toilet, which was in okay but not great
condition.
I screwed the tank back on as solidly as I could... but water seeps
out between the tank and the toilet. It never leaked before.
Should I try a different gasket? This one looks different from the
old one, but it claims to be a standard gasket and I've got a standard
toilet.
Should I call a plumber? (If so, any recommendations in the Nashua
area?) Thanks for any wisdom...
Val
|
198.82 | Hope you kept the old gasket | EARTH::GRILLO | | Thu Jul 31 1986 22:32 | 10 |
|
If you still have the old gasket take it to a hardware store and
get one thats similar. Also, make sure the area where the gasket
seats is clean, any sand or grit will contribute to a leak.
Make sure when you tighten down the tank you do it evenly. Don't
tighten one side first the the other, this will give you problems
too.
Guido
|
198.83 | Fixed it with RTV | CACHE::BRETSCHNEIDE | | Fri Aug 01 1986 13:15 | 6 |
| The last time I had this problem, I seated the new gasket in RTV
and coated the top side of it with the same stuff. When I put the
tank in place a bunch of it oozed out. I cleaned the ooze away
and had no problems with a leak.
bb
|
198.84 | Don't forget hold-down bolts | NOVA::PAL | Paul Lemaire | Fri Aug 01 1986 15:12 | 4 |
| Perhaps your problem is with the bolts that hold the tank onto the bowl.
These have rubber washers to prevent leaks; the washers tend to lose
their elasticity over time. You can buy a little kit with BRASS bolts
and new washers at any hardware store.
|
198.85 | DON'T OVER-TIGHTEN! | AKOV05::MURRAY | | Fri Aug 01 1986 16:55 | 4 |
| Also be aware that it is VERY easy to crack a porcelin toilet by
over-tightening the bolts. Take it from one who broke 2!
Dave
|
198.86 | | SUPER::MATTHEWS | Don't panic | Fri Aug 01 1986 19:20 | 6 |
| I did get new bolts with gaskets. They came with wing nuts, so given
the strength of my fingers I'm not worried about cracking the toilet.
'Scuse my ignorance, but what is RTV?
Val
|
198.87 | RTV | JOET::JOET | Thela hun ginjeet | Mon Aug 04 1986 12:32 | 6 |
| re: RTV
That's the silicone bathtub caulk stuff that most everything I have
is practically made of. It stands for Room Temperature Vulcanizing.
-joet
|
198.88 | another gasket worked | SUPER::MATTHEWS | Don't panic | Tue Aug 05 1986 02:39 | 8 |
| Thanks for all the words of encouragement. I hate to call a plumber
for something a mere mortal can handle.
I got another gasket that matches the original more closely, though not
exactly; made up the difference with plumber's putty, and it works.
Sometimes there's no substitute for trial and error...
Val
|
198.67 | Ready made solution | USMRM2::CBUSKY | | Tue Aug 05 1986 21:06 | 8 |
| Somerville Lumber has a pump and tank assembly for a $150 or so, that
maybe what your looking for. Its a pump with a float switch inside of
a bucket (five gallon size or so). It has an inlet for a small drain
pipe (1.5 - 2 inch size) and an outlet that you hook into to your
regular waste pipe.
With this set-up you can also install a sink in the basement and drain
the water into this device.
|
198.68 | SUMP PUMP IN A BARREL | MARY::MARUCA | | Wed Aug 13 1986 01:50 | 30 |
| -< Where and how much >-
re: .11
> Where can you get such a switch? What do they cost. Spag's doesn't
> have them and I really need one.
I bought this mercury switch at Miley's Hardware in Derry N.H. for
$22.00 .
re: .0
In regarding the washing machine's pump having difficulty pumping
water at approx. 5 verticle feet to the waist line, I assume that the drain is
about 5 feet from the floor. In which case the washer's pump should be able to
handle that. I've heard that generally speaking, the average washing machine's
pump is designed to pump water up at about 6.5 ft. Any distance from the pump
to the drain that exceeds 6.5 ft. will prematurely kill the washer's pump
eventually. I suggest weighing the cost of replacing the washer's pump vs.
buying a barrel, sump pump, mercury switch,hose for the sump pump's output,and
a lint catcher (screen)so the water containing lint doesn't gradually clog up
the sump pump (which happened to me). If you feel that the drain is vertically
too far up for the washer's pump to drive out the water, then let a sump pump
do the work. The cost? $80 - sump pump, $22 Mercury switch, $8 - barrel, hose
- (garden hose) $8, screen - I use a strainer.
Mike
|
198.536 | Replacing closet flange | EXIT26::TURI | | Wed Aug 13 1986 16:45 | 11 |
| I'm re-doing my bathroom and have run across a problem....
It seems the flange portion of my closet flange is broken and the
entire flange needs to be replaced. I get the feeling that this
is the one step in the project I'm going to have to get a plumber for.
If anyone has any experience in replacing a closet flange I would appreciate some
advice.
Thanks
Al
|
198.537 | Sunset has some good books | NANDI::CONN | Alex Conn | Wed Aug 13 1986 17:08 | 5 |
| I haven't done it, but I just did a bathroom repair noticed a section on it
in the Sunset book on plumbing. (The Sunset book was, by the way,
particularly helpful with a bathtub trap problem I had.)
Alex
|
198.538 | Plumber it or lag bolt it | COIN::GARDINER | | Wed Aug 13 1986 20:59 | 18 |
| It depends on the type of soil pipe you have. Is it PVC or Black
Iron? If it is Black Iron the flange needs to be set on the pipe
with Oakum and lead. That is a job for a plumber, not an amatuer.
If the pipe is PVC you need access below to cut the PVC with a Hacksaw
and put a short section in with a new flange.
This is not a job for the "non-handyman".
The best advice for the amatuer is to ignore the break in the flange
and put a new wax ring on the flange and lag bolt the toilet to
the floor (don't over tighten the lag bolt or you'll need a new
toilet). Use a bronze or stainless Lag bolt so you won't get rust
from condensation.
Good Luck!
Jeff
|
198.539 | | EXIT26::TURI | | Thu Aug 14 1986 15:37 | 9 |
| re .2
I should have mentioned it- Its a cast iron pipe with oakum and
lead.
Thanks on the lag bolt suggestion. I'll see it I can make it work.
If not I'll be asking for the name of a good plumber in the
Leominister/Sterling area.
|
198.540 | | WHOARU::HARDING | | Thu Aug 14 1986 18:00 | 7 |
| Just as a word_of_caution when you start bolting it down you
should do it slowly. Tighten down the bolts a little at a time.
That gives the wax ring a chance to flatten out. If you don't
as mentioned eariler, you'll need a new toilet.
dave
|
198.541 | | LATOUR::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Thu Aug 14 1986 19:32 | 6 |
| The correct bolts for lag bolt installation are standard items at
any decent plumbing supplies source (I've even found them at
Channel). The regular bolts have flat, oblong heads that lock into
the underside of the flange, and machine threads that will stick
thru the pedestal. The lag bolts have wood threads on one end and
machine threads on the other.
|
198.69 | Pump Belt? | GENRAL::HUNTER | from SUNNY Colorado, Wayne | Fri Aug 15 1986 21:20 | 10 |
| As a reply to part 2 of .0, how long has it been since you checked
or replace the drive belt from the motor to the washer pump? Had
the same problem with my Maytag (10 year old unit) except that it
wouldn't pump the water up 1 foot above the washer level. Turned
out to be a stretched and old, dirty pump drive belt. $2.00 at
auto parts store for replacement. Worth a try before spending a
lot on something else.
Sorry about being so late into this conference, but just learned
of it in another notes conference.
|
198.542 | found a good plumber | EXIT26::TURI | | Tue Aug 26 1986 22:00 | 19 |
| After close inspection of the flange I determined that doing anything
but replacing the flange is taking a chance.
Taking the advice I got from the replys to this note I contacted
a plumber.
For the plunber to come out, take out the old flange (what was left
of it), and install a new cast iron flange came out just under $30.
The plumber did a good job for what I felt was a reasonable rate.
Seem like a good guy to do business with....
George Torigian
617-692-2343
Works the Chelmsford MA area
A. Turi
|
198.93 | Fixing a leaky Toilet | ASTRO::OBRIEN | | Thu Jan 22 1987 11:22 | 8 |
| I have a Toilet that's leaking at the base on the floor?
I've never fixed anything like this before so could some
of you DIY'ers give me some clues to what it is I'm up
against and how to fix it. Or should I just call the Plumber
and wait.
Thank's
MIke
|
198.94 | no problem | FROST::SIMON | Mister Diddy Wah Diddy? | Thu Jan 22 1987 13:14 | 21 |
|
Toilets are pretty easy.
-just shut off and disconnect the water,
-unbolt it from the floor (usually two bolts),
-most likely all you need do is replace the wax ring which
is about a $2 item,
-carefully rebolt the toiled down using just enough pressure
to seat the wax ring,
-reconnect and turn back on the water.
It may be easier if you take the tank off the base first. That
is what I have done in the past. I had my toilet out twice last
winter when I was working on my bathroom. There are usually two
bolts that hold the top to the base and a rubber washer ring
between them.
good luck
-gary
|
198.95 | Remember To Flush! | TRACTR::DOWNS | | Thu Jan 22 1987 14:06 | 5 |
| Just one thing to add, after you turn off the supply of water to
your toilet remember to flush it again. this will reduce the chance
of having some extra water where you don't need it. This sounds
like a dumb thing to forget but it happens.
|
198.96 | | FROST::SIMON | Mister Diddy Wah Diddy? | Thu Jan 22 1987 14:50 | 3 |
|
Also manually bail out the bowl. Make less mess.
|
198.97 | not too tough, but be more specific | EXODUS::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Thu Jan 22 1987 15:12 | 23 |
| Before you start, you first have to figure out where the leak is, since
the solution is dependent on this. I believe there are three
possibilities:
o the feed line (that's where the water comes into the
tank)
o the seal between the tank and the bowl
o condensation (not a leak at all - it's very possible to have
moist air condense on the cold tank, producing a lot of water
on the floor)
I would start by first identifying where the leak is and post it here.
Then this discussion can proceed in the correct direction.
btw - most leaks are at the feed and that's what I believe the previous
replies were directed at. BUT even if it is in the feed, it could be in
the shut-off, the connection between the shut-off and the tank or the
seal where the feed goes into the tank. All these also have different
solutions so PLEASE be specific.
-mark
|
198.98 | Another possibility | WELFAR::PGRANSEWICZ | | Thu Jan 22 1987 16:07 | 11 |
| One other possibility is the shutoff value failing to close and
the water leaking around the flush lever. This recently happened
to me. The overflow was higher than the flush lever! .5 is right.
The problem could any number of things. Wipe things up. Flush
it and see if you can see roughly where it's leaking. Depending
on how old the toilet is, maybe the rubber gasket between the bowl
and tank may be gone. Whatever it is, it's not worth a plumber!
Do it yourself and you'll see how simple and easy a toilet is to
work on. One word of caution, though. Before removing the toilet
make sure the shutoff value works. Mine didn't but a new plastic
valve just twisted on. It really is easy.
|
198.99 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Jan 22 1987 16:21 | 16 |
| Toilets and I just don't get along for some reason, but the other
people are right, toilets are basically simple and easy to fix.
(At least, they SHOULD be easy to fix! Why it always takes me a
week to fix any toilet problem I don't know.)
A couple of suggestions from one for whom everything about toilet
repair always goes wrong:
Have a second bathroom in the house, so fixing the toilet is
not a Supreme Emergency Panic.
Do it someday when your friendly local plumbing supply store
is open, because something is almost guaranteed to break when
you try to take it apart.
When something does break, take the old part along when you
go to get a new one. There are at least 5 different kinds of
American Standard flapper valves, for example, and I don't think
any of them are interchangable. Similarly for everything else.
|
198.100 | | BINKLY::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Thu Jan 22 1987 19:15 | 11 |
| When you move the toilet- make sure you first disconnect the water
feed - best done at the bottom of the toilet tank - but make sure the
bowl is empty (I just throw all my old towels on the floor, and then
do a laundry load of towels.
Anything you need, and help buying it, can be had, cheap, in the
plumbing department at spags.
While you're at it, pick up one of the new-fangled, single-piece
no-backwash internal fill mechanisms there for $5 (replaces the float
with a more reliable, easier to adjust mechanism)
|
198.101 | RE: .7: 5 kinds of Standard, eh? :-) | YODA::BARANSKI | Laugh when you feel like Crying! | Fri Jan 23 1987 16:53 | 0 |
198.102 | | NISYSE::PAHIGIAN | | Sun Jan 25 1987 22:46 | 12 |
| If your problem is the wax seal, you should know that one of the most
common causes of this seal's failure is that the hopper is allowed to
"rock" on the floor.
When you put the base back on the outlet, put the toilet seat UP and place
a bubble level on the rim. With thin wedges of wood, shim the base of the
toilet so that it's level. Then tighten down the base bolts, but just
enough to keep the base from moving around when someone's on the seat; as
was mentioned earlier, porcelain cracks easily.
- craig
|
198.103 | ALWAYS replace the WAX ring... | CLOSUS::HOE | | Mon Jan 26 1987 20:02 | 18 |
| All the above advice is excellent; .9's reply reminded me of my
apartmrnt in my college days. The floor rotted from the leaks so
the hopper was a-rockin'. What I finally convinced the land lord
to do was have a carpenter replace the floor, then have the plumber
comeback to replace the wax ring. That was the last of the $45/hour
service calls the land lord had to pay for my apartment.
The wax collar MUST be replaced whenever you remove the toilet from
the floor. You must scrape the old stuff off before reinstalling
the hopper. It smells and is quite grimey but you can wash your
hands after. (No, you won't get AIDS or any other dreaded diseases).
The rubber seals under the bolts holding the tank to the hopper
usually rots if you have high mineral content in your local water
supply. RTV silicon will reseal the stuff. Let the RTV silicon set
for 24 hours before using the toilet.
/cal hoe
|
198.130 | Stubborn toilet seat cover bolts... | CAMLOT::DAVIS | Are we having fun yet? | Wed Feb 11 1987 22:27 | 16 |
| Folks,
I could use a bit (a lot?) of advice.
Seems the bolts holding on the toilet seat cover which I now
want removed had frozen solid. Nylon nuts, metal, rusted bolts.
Out of frustration I finally pried off the toilet seat itself
and now these rusted bolts sit staring at me... I have tried a hacksaw
to no avail.
Can you help?
thanks,
Marge
|
198.131 | Use high tech | HOMBRE::DIGRAZIA | | Thu Feb 12 1987 03:20 | 15 |
|
I guess you don't mean the nylon nuts are frozen to the
rusted bolts. You must mean the bolts are frozen to the
toilet, or to a metal nut holding them to the toilet.
Try rust remover. Daub a little on every so often and
let it work its way into the rust. Use Naval Jelly,
Exrust, or Coke. You might try some thin petroleum
stuff, like Liquid Wrench. I think none of these
things is likely to damage the toilet, but try to
keep the stuff off the porcelain.
By the way, the rust "removers" work by yanking the oxygen out
of the rust, I think. I guess this leaves raw iron behind,
presumably not frozen to anything.
|
198.132 | Brute Force | CSCMA::JOHNSON | CSC/MA Advanced Technology Systems Support | Thu Feb 12 1987 10:49 | 6 |
| I have always had to use bolt cutters (handy for lots of other things,
too) or vise-grips (bend back and forth until it snaps) to get these
things out. The first couple of times I did it I worried about
damaging the porcelain but that has never happened.
Pete
|
198.133 | Try a keyhole saw | AKOV04::COLES | | Thu Feb 12 1987 11:30 | 12 |
|
You may want to try using the hacksaw blade by it self (without
the saw frame) or use a keyhole saw with a metal cutting blade.
This approach will allow you to aproach the bolts from more directions
then the assembled hacksaw would.
I've just gone through replacing almost everything that wasn't
ceramic on a toilet and cutting frozen metal pieces with a keyhole
saw is the way most things came off.
Good luck,
Richard Coles
|
198.134 | Remember the gloves | CACHE::LEIGH | | Thu Feb 12 1987 12:07 | 6 |
| re -1
obvious comment, but use a good pair of gloves to hold the blade; using
the blade by itself is the only way I've had success with the bolts.
Allen
|
198.135 | | CAMLOT::DAVIS | Are we having fun yet? | Thu Feb 12 1987 13:10 | 8 |
| Thanks, all... and to the mail comments as well...
I'll try the rust remover first and then the keyhole saw or
dis-assembled blade...
thanks again,
Marge
|
198.136 | use a reciprocating saw | STING::JELENIEWSKI | | Thu Feb 12 1987 13:43 | 6 |
| I have replaced many toilet seats in my apartments. I usually dont
even fool around trying to unscrew them. I take out the "sawzall"
with a metal cutting blade and the toilet seats off in about
10 nanoseconds. Same goes for the flange bolts if you need to
replace the wax seal.
|
198.137 | | VINO::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Thu Feb 12 1987 16:03 | 6 |
|
Would it be an option to drill the head off the bolt? (Use a drill
bit ever-so-slightly wider than the bolt, and drill straight into
the head until it falls off - pilot hole with a small bit is
appropriate.)
|
198.104 | What about a sweaty toilet tank??? | VAXWRK::BSMITH | Brad Smith | Thu Mar 26 1987 21:49 | 5 |
| I have a toilet that sweats so much that puddles of water form under the
tank. Is there an easy way to stop this other than leave a towel under
there??
Brad.
|
198.105 | ZAAAPP.. :^) | KELVIN::RPALMER | Half a bubble off plumb | Fri Mar 27 1987 11:27 | 5 |
| I've seen devices that heat the toilet water with a coil heater
hung in the tank. By heating the water to room temperature the
condensation does not form. I have no personal knowledge of how
much they cost to run or what happens if the coil shorts out :^)
=Ralph=
|
198.106 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Fri Mar 27 1987 11:27 | 12 |
| Three ways I know of. One, you can get a foam liner about 1/4"thick
that goes inside the tank and insulates it. The cold water coming
into the tank doesn't cool off the outside as rapidly, so there
isn't as much of a tendancy to condense water.
Two, lower the humidity level in your house. If it's sweating now,
I wonder what it will be like in the summertime. If the problem
is just because you're taking showers and the bathroom gets steamy,
an exhaust fan in the bathroom would help a lot.
Three, you can buy a mixing valve that mixes a little hot water
in with the cold water as it goes into the toilet tank, warming
it up to more-or-less room temperature.
|
198.138 | Toilet obstructions. Watch out for cleaners! | MENTOR::HOPEWELL | Mark Hopewell | Wed Jun 10 1987 13:34 | 29 |
| I haven't seen any notes on toilet obstructions so I wanted to share
this information. My wife used to use a toilet bowl cleaner that
looked like a bar of soap and hangs over the side of the toliet
bowl. One day I noticed that the toilet wasn't flushing and that
the cleaner was missing. After interagating my 3 year old, I found
that he had dropped it in then flushed the toilet. To get the stupid
thing out I had to take the toliet off and take it apart. Using
a hook made from a wire hanger I managed to get it out.
I told my wife not to use this kind of cleaner anymore. She went
out and bought a cleaner I have never seen before. It looks like
a small plastic disk. You put this in the bottom of the tank and
it disolves and turns the water blue. Well after this was in the
tank for about a week, the toilet would not go down all the time.
Again I had to take the toilet apart to see if my 3 year old had
been up to hid old tricks. I discovered that as the cleaner disk
disolved it was coming apart in small clumps and was plugging up
all the small holes under the rim. This decreased the water pressure
enough so that the water would not got down. I took the toilet bowl
off and took it outside and spent the next hour flushing out this
goop from the inside of the toilet. Now the toilet works great and
I have threatened my wife with death if she uses anymore toilet
bowl cleaners.
Watch out for this plastic type disk that is suppose to disolve
and keep you toilet clean. All it does is clog up all the plumbing.
Mark
|
198.139 | Cleaning supervisor - watch out for flying tools! | VINO::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Wed Jun 10 1987 15:09 | 10 |
| (...picture of Mark exiting the bathroom, with the bowl brush inserted
horizontally into his mouth, painfully stretching his lips; in the
background, one can hear quite distinctly, "YOU clean the damn thing!")
We use a blue solid that's packaged in a jar with a perforated plastic
cap. The stuff dissolves slowy and seeps out the holes during each
refill, and the whole thing is heavy enough not to migrate, so it
hasn't caused an obstruction.
|
198.517 | Toliet Flushing Pressure | DEVO::NISHIMOTO | | Sun Jun 28 1987 13:50 | 8 |
| My down stairs toilet doesn't seem to flush with the same force
that my upstairs toilet does. Quite often it plugs up on an amount
of stuff that would have flushed down the upstairs toilet easily.
Can anyone give me some hints as to what to look at?
Pete
|
198.518 | | ZEN::WINSTON | Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA) | Mon Jun 29 1987 03:33 | 3 |
| do you have septic? May be a sign that its not flowing easily. There
also may be something in the toilet (happened to me once - same
symptoms - was a toothbrush)
|
198.519 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Mon Jun 29 1987 16:47 | 4 |
| Check the water level in the tank. Maybe the water is shutting
off before the tank has a chance to fill completely, so you aren't
getting a good water flow when you flush.
|
198.520 | Straight run. | AKOV04::WILLIAMS | | Tue Jun 30 1987 14:21 | 20 |
| Ah yes, the toilet bowl with less than adequate pressure. Believe
it or not, the last hoem we lived in was difficult to sell because
the downstairs john did not flush with 'acceptable' force. The
test most often run was placing one sheet of toilet paper on the
surface of the water and then flushing. If the single sheet was
not cleared a probelm was assumed. After much effort at DYI fixes
I called in a plumber who laughed at the test and wrote a note saying
the test was stupid. He also checked the toilet and determined
the waste pipe's straight run was sufficiently long as to hamper
the clearing of the bowl (the run can reduce minimize the poser
of the water pressure). With the plumber's note, the home sold.
Our new house has one sink which doesn't drain very well at
all (upstairs bathroom). The problem? Yup, a long straight run
right after the elbow. The builder designed the bathroom for a
different vanity than the one we chose and was too sloppy to make
the correct compensations. I will 'grade' the straight run myself
one of these days.
Douglas
|
198.145 | <Slow toilet> | LEELA::MYEE | If you can dream it, you can do it. WDisney | Tue Aug 11 1987 20:22 | 13 |
|
I have a toilet that flushes slowly (i.e. after pushing the
flush lever, the toilet flushes with a rush of water, BUT drains
slowly). What could be the cause of this?? The problem is in a
old house that I just bought. And the previous owners said
that the toilet was always like this. I am thinking that the venting
pipe may be clogged. Or may be more likely, the toilet drain is
clogged. Is there anyway to tell the difference? What should be
done for either case?
ADVthanksANCE,
-Mike
|
198.146 | | VLNVAX::SUMNER | Senility has set in | Wed Aug 12 1987 00:35 | 12 |
|
How old is the house? Vent pipes don't usually become clogged,
unless you have something unusual like a bird nest. I'm not being
sarcastic but are you sure that the toilet is even vented? It might
be worth your while to buy a heavy duty "snake" at the hardware
store (about $25) and run it down your vent pipe. If that doesn't
work then you probably should remove the toilet and run the snake
down the toilet drain (have a replacement wax-ring handy for
re-installation of the toilet.)
Glenn
|
198.147 | Standard Toilet? | JOKUR::MCCONNEY | | Wed Aug 12 1987 13:02 | 17 |
| I'm experiencing the same problem with my toilet and my house is
old as well. A plumber told me that it may be because of the type of
toilet I currently have; the "throat" is located towards the front of
the bowl as oppose to the rear which is how the newer models are made.
He explained that the curve in my toilet bends sharper than newer
models causing passage problems during "large movements". Does
anyone agree with this theory?
I'm planning to replace my toilet but I'm wondering if I have to
relocate the flange (hole) since it appears to be towards the front
of my toilet or is the flange location (dimension from back wall to
flange) standard?
RE 1416.0 > Another possibility; Does your house have a septic tank?
It could be full or not operating properly.
Thanks for any help, Chip
|
198.148 | if you have a septic system, check this. | VICKI::PAHIGIAN | The first cut won't hurt at all. | Wed Aug 12 1987 14:39 | 9 |
|
If the house has a septic system, it's possible that there's a clog at the
inlet baffle of the tank. Most tanks have 3 caps; one over the inlet baffle, a
main cap over the tank proper, and a cap over the outlet baffle. It's possible
that some non-flushables have accumulated inside the inlet baffle. It can be
cleaned out with a tire iron or something similar.
- craig
|
198.149 | I've seen other sizes | WELFAR::PGRANSEWICZ | | Wed Aug 12 1987 15:01 | 11 |
| RE: .2
> I'm planning to replace my toilet but I'm wondering if I have to
> relocate the flange (hole) since it appears to be towards the front
> of my toilet or is the flange location (dimension from back wall to
> flange) standard?
I believe the standard is 12" from wall to center of the flange.
However, I think in some older houses it could be different. I've
seen some toilets for sale for 14" and others.
|
198.150 | ...my problem.. | LOONMT::MEDVECKY | | Wed Sep 02 1987 16:39 | 12 |
| Well, I have a new house and am having problems with a toilet in
the master bedroom upstairs.....sometimes it flushes completely,
and other times it seems to flush, but not with enough force to
clear everything.....since its a new house I cant imagine having
problems relating to clogged pipes, etc.
Any suggestions as to why I having this erratic problem....sometimes
I use a plunger and then it seems to be ok....
Rick
|
198.151 | | CHOVAX::GILSON | | Wed Sep 02 1987 20:13 | 1 |
| Check your vent.
|
198.152 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve | Thu Sep 03 1987 13:42 | 2 |
| Check water level in the tank. It should fill to just below the
level of the overflow pipe.
|
198.153 | Pull it and snake the drain | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Fri Sep 04 1987 13:17 | 23 |
| Well, it's somewhat naive to assume new construction means no
obstruction in the plumbing. A plumber friend of mine said it was
murder keeping the electricians from using the plumbing before it
was connected. The trash and soda bottles weren't the worst of
it. If the vent checks out fine, it's not all that tough or discusting
to pull a toilet.
I've been in my house a year now living with a slow toilet since
week one. Only last month I finally decided we had enough company
coming to warrant my finding out why the commode was so slow. It'd
fill right to the brim and then slowly decend. Plunging would help
for a while. So we located all shutoffs and verified they worked,
and then drained tank and bowl. I had the new wax seal on hand
and spread out the newspapers. I got lucky in that both bolts securing
the bowl came off without a hacksaw and I had the toilet out on the
side yard in about a half hour from starting.
After flushing thoroughly with the hose I tipped that baby back
and with rubber gloves on, removed the toothbrush firmly wedged
in the trap. Holding it aloft like a surgeon with an offending
appendix, waiting for the praises of my assistants, my wife remarks,
"So that's where that went. I lost that while cleaning, the week
we moved in." :-}
|
198.154 | vote for toothbrush | NUTMEG::FOX | | Fri Sep 11 1987 18:18 | 3 |
| I second the toothbrush in old or new house it happened to me in
my chalet. If you try to look for the brush remember that to remove
toilet you may have to open bolts and twist before removing.
|
198.107 | non-standard spud nut problem | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis (formerly SWSNOD::RPGDOC) | Tue Sep 29 1987 14:40 | 15 |
| My problem is a little bit different, but then so is my toilet.
Ours is the old fashioned kind that has a separate tank and bowl
connected by an elbow. We've had the bowl off to replace the floor
and we bought a new spud nut and elbow. The problem is that the
opening in the porcelain is just a little too small for the standard
spud nut. We solved this by grinding a little of the brass off
until we could slip it in. Unfortunately, the rubber washer that
is supposed to seal the connection when the nut is drawn up tight
won't fit. We were almost able to tap it in around the spud using
vaseline and screwdrivers, but there's no way we can grind a little
off a rubber gasket. Does anybody know of a source in the Boston
area for a non-standard spud nut gasket?
I don't mind going out in the backyard, but it's starting to get
to my wife, and her mother's coming to visit next week.
|
198.108 | I don't think it's an oddball, and you have my sympathy | 3D::WHITE | Randy White, Doncha love old homes... | Tue Sep 29 1987 15:54 | 46 |
| RE:724.15
Hi Dennis-
My toilet is also a two piece circa 1929 and I had to do this job
just last spring, I had a leaking elbow, you know one of those
1 hour plumbing jobs that only take 5 hours to complete.
Anyways, while I was at it I noticed the old spud nut connector
piece was corroded away and had to be replaced also. Sorry to
say the rubber gasket does not fit easily and I thought I had the
wrong parts after trying for about 1/2 hour to get it all in there.
I went back to the hardware store which also happens to be a plumbing
supplier with the old parts, the new parts I bought from them and
talked with the boss. They were the correct parts but the job is
not an easy one. Below is a rough illustration of the parts I had
note that the cone shaped gasket was a kind of closed cell foam rubber
and must be compressed considerably to get it into the opening.
Bottom line, this part of job two hours, including installing
deinstalling pipe/adapters, two trips to hardware store, getting
up to relieve cramps in my back ;-). It took three attempts with
the gasket in the right place before I got it right, be careful
tightening up the mounting nut as you can dislodge the gasket before
everything is really snug. Now I understand why toilets are made
the way they are now.
|| <--------porcelain cavity on toilet
||
|| /|
_ || / | /|
---| |--/ |-/ |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
---| |--\ |-\ |
- || \ | \|
|| \|
| || |
| | |
\ \ \
\ \ ----- spud nut flange assy for bowl
\ -------- rubber gasket
------------- mounting nut for flange assy, spud nut required
to lock on elbow
|
198.109 | Here's what worked. | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis (formerly SWSNOD::RPGDOC) | Wed Sep 30 1987 16:10 | 29 |
| RE: .16
Thanks for your advice, but I don't see how you could have gotten the rubber
gasket inside the opening in the porcelain. Anyway, my wife had an idea
that worked. She suggested threading the metal washer and nut on over the
rubber gasket and then tightening it up gradually as we worked the gasket
in around the spud nut. Here's how it's supposed to look. A little liquid
soap helped.
metal || <--------porcelain cavity on toilet
washer ---> | ||
_ | || ||
| | | |---- /|
---| |-|-|-------- |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
---| |-|-|-------- |
| | | |---- | \|
- | || || |
| | || |
| | |
\ \ \
\ \ ----- spud nut flange assy for bowl
\ -------- rubber gasket
------------- mounting nut for flange assy, spud nut required
to lock on elbow
|
198.110 | Still not right. | TOPDOC::AHERN | Dennis (formerly SWSNOD::RPGDOC) | Wed Oct 07 1987 16:02 | 15 |
| RE: .15-.17 "non-standard spud nut"
I spoke too soon. It turned out that we weren't really getting
the spud washer in around the nut. Instead, we were simply folding
the edge down and compressing it. On close inspection we found
that the diameter of the rubber washer is very slightly greater
than the inside diameter of the porcelain. We tried grinding some
off of the rubber, but now it leaks where the flush elbow connects
to the bowl. In fact, it also leaks where the elbow connects to
the tank. Somnebody mentioned using a room temperature curing
silicone. Will that really hold? What if I take a knife and slice
out about 1/32 of the washer? Any ideas before I throw in the towel
and call the Licen$ed Plumber?
|
198.70 | Quick help needed | WELFAR::PGRANSEWICZ | Auhhhhh, I've been slimed! | Fri Oct 09 1987 17:49 | 7 |
| I've got a 3.5" threaded adapter that I have to remove and replace
with another one. My pipe wrench will just about handle it. However,
the adapter has pipe dope on the threads. I tried turning it but
it didn't budge and the last thing I need is a broken pipe. Can
the dope be loosened with gentle heating from a propane torch or
is there another way to do this? Besides calling a plumber. Oh
yeah, and I'm not in Massachusetts where DIY plumbing is illegal...;-)
|
198.71 | | 3D::BOOTH | Stephen Booth | Mon Oct 19 1987 13:14 | 7 |
|
Get a bigger wrench or put a pipe on the handle of the one you
have. They take alot of mussle to break the bead !
-Steve-
|
198.72 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Tue Oct 20 1987 14:29 | 6 |
| Heating with a torch would probably help and shouldn't cause any
problems, assuming there is nothing nearby/on/connected to the pipe
that would be damaged by heat. Since you're taking the joint apart
I assume you've drained the water out of it.
I assume it had water in it. If you're taking apart a pipe that
went to an oil tank, I don't think I'd try the heat-it-up trick....
|
198.207 | Noisy toilet | PASTA::SWEENEY | | Mon Nov 02 1987 12:29 | 7 |
| My toilet gives off a loud humming noise everytime we flush it. The humming
takes place after the flush is complete and the tank has started to fill
up. The noise lasts for approximately 1 minute.
Anyone out there have a solution?
/Jay
|
198.208 | buy a video camera and see if you can get a spot on MTV | ERLANG::SUDAMA | Living is easy with eyes closed... | Mon Nov 02 1987 16:11 | 1 |
|
|
198.209 | this one's easy | PLDVAX::TRANDOLPH | | Mon Nov 02 1987 16:11 | 3 |
| Check the shut-off valve in the tank supply line - sometimes they'll
make very strange noises if they're not opened all the way.
-Tom R.
|
198.210 | | HOBBIT::RIDGE | | Mon Nov 02 1987 16:13 | 1 |
| My guess is that it just likes it's work.
|
198.211 | | AUTHOR::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Nov 02 1987 16:24 | 17 |
| C'mon guys, he's asking for help, not wisecracks.
Something is obviously resonating, and you might be able to change
it by shutting off the valve in the supply line a little bit (or,
as suggested, opening it all the way if it isn't already). Basically,
change the flow rate, one way or the other, and see if that helps.
If you shut the valve some that means the toilet won't fill up as
fast, but you might be willing to live with that to stop the noise.
There are now a variety of ballcocks being used, from the "classic"
ballcock to new plastic floatless jobs; I don't know enough about
all the varieties to make any specific suggestions. Perhaps take
the top off the tank and try holding various pieces while the toilet
is filling, to see if you can pinpoint what is vibrating. You could
always replace the ballcock and that would probably fix the problem,
but if your plumbing luck is anything like mine that would be a
last resort.
|
198.569 | Every other flush does poorly | TERPIN::SUSEL | One more day I find myself alive | Mon Dec 07 1987 11:40 | 16 |
| I checked all the plumbing directorys and found no listing as to
this problem.
The problem is: I noticed this weekend that every OTHER time I flush
my toilet, the water comes almost to the top of the bowl, and upon
level going down, I get a very poor flush.
I flushed it a couple of times with the tank top off, and all seems
to work fine in there. I plunged the toilet, and checked the small
hole opposite the drain for blockage. All seemed OK.
Any Ideas?
Thanks,
Bruce
|
198.570 | Pull the Toilet | FIDDLE::DELUCO | Nothing personal | Mon Dec 07 1987 15:42 | 8 |
| My guess is you have a blockage. Pull the toilet. It's a messy
job, but somebody's gotta do it. The reason it only appears to
be a problem on every other flush is that with alot of water in
the bowl, the toilet will always flush better....even with an
obstruction.
The other thing you can try is a plumber's snake. I think they
cost about $10 at the local hardware store.
|
198.571 | snake first | NRPUR::BATTISTA | | Tue Dec 08 1987 18:11 | 7 |
| RE .1
My vote goes to partial blockage as well.
Get a snake at hardware store first!!
Only if snake fails pull toilet off floor...then use snake again..or
your hands, preferrably with rubber gloves.
Be sure to replace wax gasket before replacing toilet...old one
CANNOT be reused!
|
198.572 | another vote | HPSMEG::LUKOWSKI | I lost my A$$ in the '87 CRASH! | Tue Dec 08 1987 19:59 | 6 |
| I'll put my money with the last two replies. When you buy a snake,
make sure you get one for toilets. I don't know what the difference
is but the one for the toilet has to make some interesting curves.
-Jim
|
198.213 | Toilet tank mounting problem | GLIVET::RECKARD | Jon Reckard 264-7710 | Wed Dec 30 1987 11:06 | 15 |
| I can't seat my new toilet tank on my new toilet bowl securely.
| +++++ | - tank (++ = flapper thing)
--------------------
~~~~~ - big plastic nut
***** - sponge rubber gasket
--------------------
| | - bowl/base
With everything assembled and tightened down, there's still about a 1/2 inch
gap between the tank and the bowl. This means the tank is sitting on the rubber
gasket, wobbly. The bowl came with nifty _little_ rubber bumpers that the tank
is supposed to sit on, but it doesn't come close. It seals OK - no leaks.
All parts I'm using here came with the toilet.
Any ideas?
|
198.214 | | VAXWRK::INGRAM | Larry Ingram | Wed Dec 30 1987 17:58 | 14 |
| > I can't seat my new toilet tank on my new toilet bowl securely.
>
> | +++++ | - tank (++ = flapper thing)
> --------------------
> ~~~~~ - big plastic nut
> ***** - sponge rubber gasket
> --------------------
> | | - bowl/base
It appears that the gap is caused by the nut and gasket between the
tank and bowl. Perhaps these parts were meant to be installed inside
the tank underneath the "flapper thing"?
Larry
|
198.215 | You're missing two long bolts, rubber washer and nuts. | BSS::HOE | Rockies is the only place to come | Wed Dec 30 1987 19:58 | 9 |
| The toilet that I replaced had two long screws, rubber gasket, and
nuts that mounts on the underside of the toilet, behind the toilet
seat. The plastic nut holds the flapper valve assembly and the rubber
gasket seals the water.
CAUTION: Don't overtighten the nuts on the bolts, cracking the tank
requires replacing the whole toilet unit.
/cal
|
198.216 | | 3D::BOOTH | Stephen Booth | Thu Dec 31 1987 10:17 | 9 |
|
My tank and base are set up like you describe. There is a space
between the two with a rubber gasket there. If I grab the tank I
can tilt it side to side. I was alittle hesitant at first but I
guess it's ok since it was put together correctly and It works fine.
-Steve-
|
198.217 | If it ain't broke...don't fix it. | HPSMEG::LUKOWSKI | I lost my A$$ in the '87 CRASH! | Thu Dec 31 1987 12:56 | 10 |
| Re: .0, .3
I had the same problem (not really a problem ) when I installed
mine. I had to remove the tank to do some work on the walls and
when I reseated it, it did seat better. This was roughly a month
later. Give the gasket time to settle or give a little from the
pressure...if that makes sense.
-Jim
|
198.573 | ...whats the answer... | SALEM::MEDVECKY | | Tue Jan 05 1988 15:53 | 8 |
| Well, I have a similar problem.....see note 1416...the subject is
slow flush.....I did the snake routine with no luck....didnt take
the thing apart (not yet anyway)....talked to a neighbor who has
a similar house (three baths) and he has the same problem but in
a different bath....its something Ive learned to live with.....
Rick
|
198.574 | | VINO::KILGORE | Wild Bill | Tue Jan 05 1988 16:20 | 3 |
| Does the bowl come to the same level after each flush (good and
bad)(not the tank, the bowl), or it lower after a good flush than
after a bad one?
|
198.575 | | CHARON::DCOX | Try? Try not! Do, or do not. | Wed Jan 06 1988 02:13 | 22 |
| I also have a similar problem. I have also heard of the same problem in
bathrooms in ranch houses and those that have a two storey drop before the
drain takes a bend.
The end of much research suggested that the problem is in the design of the
particular commode.
For the flush action to work properly you need to keep adding water to the bowl
as water and waste leaves. If you always need to double flush, it indicates
that water is not coming in long enough (or wates is not leaving fast enough).
If the bowl fills up close to the top (and there is no untoward blockage)
before draining, the waste is not leaving fast enough (or fresh water is coming
in too fast). All of the above seems boringly obvious now, it took a while to
verify.
At any rate, if it makes you unhappy, talk to a plumbing contractor and get
a recommended brand to solve your problem. Or live with it until it is time to
re-renovate the bathroom. :-)
Good luck, and may you be flushed with success.
Dave
|
198.565 | Noisy John | FROST::WILLIAMS | | Fri Feb 05 1988 19:36 | 16 |
|
I think I need to fix the vent pipe for our toilet.
Everything in the house drains fine, except the John.
It's not hat it doesn't drain, it that it takes two
flushes to do it, and everytime you flush there is
this loud gurgle from the tub drain, and then there
is a big air bubble that comes back up the John.
I've been told it may be the vent. How do you start
to replace/fix the vent pipe?
Thanks for any help,
Shane
|
198.566 | Clear the vent? | QUARK::LIONEL | We all live in a yellow subroutine | Sat Feb 06 1988 03:18 | 6 |
| The vent may be clogged. If you can get at it, try running a snake
down it. Don't know what else to suggest... If it is clogged, it
would likely be from stuff falling in the house vent, in which case
you might try running the snake from the roof. Good luck...
Steve
|
198.567 | Is it cold where you are? | TRACTR::WHITNEY | | Mon Feb 08 1988 15:23 | 7 |
| You know, I've heard of frost buildup in undersized vent lines in
the northeast. This happens near the roof line, due to the moisture
leaving the drain system. This is why vent lines are so big when
they go through the roof. It's not likely that you're problem is
related to this since the toilet is probably on a branch vent anyway.
Besides, I don't know where you're located. You could be in Florida!
I doubt if they have this problem in the sunbelt ...
|
198.218 | Water drains out of new Elger toilet | RICKS::CHUMSAE | _>EVER<AMUSED | Tue Feb 16 1988 11:53 | 13 |
| Installed a new water-saver toilet in a previously unfinished
bathroom. All is well except that after a flush the bowl
water drains out leaving only a cup or two of water in the
very bottom of the bowl. Takes about a minute for it to
drain. The tank water level is right at the mark and the
bowl refill tube is positioned right and has good flow.
I looked at a dozen or so other notes and 239.* comes the
closest but all that stuff has been tried.
It's and Elger.
Suggestions please! /Rick
|
198.568 | frozen stack | SALEM::PAHIGIAN | | Tue Feb 16 1988 20:16 | 8 |
| re: .2
That happened to me last winter. If you can get to the stack from the
inside of the house (attic?), try to warm it with a hair dryer, then wrap
it with insulation to keep it from freezing again. Unfortunately, the
better your attic is insulated from house heat, the better your chances are
of having the stack freeze.
- craig
|
198.219 | Try this for the heck of it... | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Thu Feb 18 1988 12:39 | 29 |
| Do you have a problem with not enough water being left after
a flush, or with water draining from the bowl even after the flush
is complete?
If it is the former, you might want to look at what kind of
ballcock is in the toilet. (Eljer no doubt) My new toilet came
with the old style ballcock, the one with the float arm and ball.
The bowl water level was great, but we had problems with the ball-
cock, so I changed over to the more reliable Fluidmaster ballcock.
I noticed that the fluidmaster does not allow as much water into
the overflow pipe to fill the bowl to its proper level, thus much
less water in the bowl when the water shuts off. I found that in
order to get a *REAL* good flush out of the toilet, I have to hold
down the flush lever until the majority of the water in the tank
has gone to the bowl, thereby creating a lower level in the tank
and allowing more water to the bowl during refill since it takes a
longer time to fill the tank. My wife, on the other hand, some-
times has a problem with this because she is use to just 'flicking'
the flush lever and leaving. The problem is that the flapper or
ball in the tank is set to close off the supply of water to the bowl
when the water in the tank is only half empty, thus not enough water
gets to the bowl to cause a good flush. In short, try holding down
the flush lever until the toilet has actually flushed, then release
it.
If your problem is the latter in the first paragraph above,
then you have a bigger problem in the form of lower pressure in
your stack and main drain which would cause the toilet to siphon
until the water seal in the toilet trap is broken. This should
be fairly easy to detect since there would be an unattractive odor
emanating from the toilet all the time.
|
198.220 | more on problem | RICKS::CHUMSAE | _>ever, <amused | Thu Feb 18 1988 12:58 | 14 |
| The tank water level is right-on. The bowl refill tube is positioned
right and has good flow. Post-flush, the bowl fills ok but as soon
as the float rises enough to turn off the refill valve the bowl
slowly drains down to the evacuation hole. There's enough water
left in the bowl to seal against the sewer gasses.
In one attempt, using a bucket full of water, I managed to add to
the refill tube's flow and the bowl stayed full; it didn't
syphen out. Next flush it was back to it's old tricks. It almost
seems like there's some delicate equalibrium that needs to be
reached?
Thanks, /RC
|
198.221 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Thu Feb 18 1988 14:07 | 21 |
| How about checking to make sure the toilet is level. This keeps
the trap at the proper attitude to prevent syphoning. Another thing
you will want to check is the distance of the toilet from the main
stack. It shouldn't be more than four feet without a re-vent.
Also, where is the toilet situated in relation to the draining of
other toilets, showers, washers, etc. If the toilet is far enough
from the stack, and something else is draining into the same pipe
as is the toilet, then that could be causing the decrease in pressure
whick might syphon out some of the water in the bowl. Ideally,
nothing should be draining into the same pipe as the toilet, beyond
the toilet, if the toilet is beyond the stack pipe, as illustrated
below.
| | Toilet other drainage
stack -> | | | |
| | \ / \ /
-----------------------------------------------------------------
| | | | | |
------------------------- ---------- -------------- -|
-----------------------------------------------------------|
|
198.223 | Bathroom smells after replacing toilet | YODA::SALEM | | Fri Feb 19 1988 15:09 | 11 |
|
Ever since I installed the new floor in my half-bath there remains
an unpleasent odor. I think this is because I removed and replaced
the toilet. I did put a new wax ring around the opening and it
has not leaked ever since that day (about 3 months ago) but it
smells kind of sewer-like in the room.
Any ideas what it can be? Did I install the toilet wrong?
-Ted (who's holding his nose)
|
198.224 | it doesn't take much | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Fri Feb 19 1988 15:31 | 7 |
| having been playing around with vent lines (but that's another story) I was
amazed how little gas can generate such a stink. when you replaced your floor,
did you perhaps raise it (adding a subfloor)? it sounds like maybe you don't
have as good a seal on the toilet as you think. OR could you have nailed
through a vent pipe?
-mark
|
198.225 | seal is good though | YODA::SALEM | | Fri Feb 19 1988 16:23 | 10 |
|
re:.1
I just ripped-off the old linolium and added a new linolium. I
did not nail anything so I dont think I broke a vent pipe (I'm
not even sure if I have one).
But someone told me that if my toilet's not leaking then the
seal is good and is not the cause of the smell. Is this true?
|
198.226 | It may not be gastight | DRUID::CHACE | | Fri Feb 19 1988 17:22 | 6 |
| No it's not true. (sorry) Because of the way the flange and the
bottom of the toilet are contructed, it is quite possible that you
can have a watertight but not airtight (gastight) seal. (roof shingles
are watertight but certainly not airtight)
Kenny
|
198.227 | | BEANCT::DCOX | Try? Try not! Do, or do not. | Fri Feb 19 1988 17:32 | 40 |
| Have you lived in the house long? Was the smell there before you ripped up the
old linoleum? One common cause of unpleasant odors is moisture from the
outside of the toilet tank that drips down on the floor and slowly evaporates.
Since bathrooms usually are very humid, the evaporation takes a while -
standing water tends to smell bad. If you notice the outside of the tank is
wet from condensation you should consider a mixing valve to warm up the water.
This is usually the problem where people have rugs around the toilet.
Another problem comes from using linoleum tile cement. Some brands smell
really bad and they keep smelling that way until the adhesive eventually cures
- again a problem with a moist room.
One more question, did the floor under the old linoleum show signs of being
soaked? If so, the smell can be coming up into the room unless you somehow
seal it completely with a skim coat of rubberized tile cement. That, by the
way, is not recommended as a correct tile installation - but some folks do it.
> But someone told me that if my toilet's not leaking then the
> seal is good and is not the cause of the smell. Is this true?
Not true. When you flush, there USUALLY is not too much pressure around the
wax ring and the water tends to flow downward, anyway. Gasses, however, don't
need much of a break to come through.
Did you set the bowl in Plumber's Putty when you put it back? If not (common
problem, here) it can shift around with not very much use and open up a gap for
vent gasses to enter the room. Also, the aforementioned drippings of
condensate can seep under the bowl if the putty was not used. They will
continue to smell bad until cleaned up.
Can you tell I have had this problem? About the best way to solve it is to
figure where the smell is coming from. If you sniff around the toilet (I know,
but if you want to solve it you will get down!) you should be able to tell if
the smell comes from there. I had decided that the smell was EVERYWHERE and
stopped worrying because it was the first room slated for re-do after we moved
in. After I pulled up the old tiles, I found the semi-rotted AND SMELLY
plywood floor. New plywood, ceramic tiles, no smell!
Good luck,
Dave
|
198.228 | caulk or re-install | FREDW::MATTHES | | Fri Feb 19 1988 18:54 | 10 |
|
You might try just taking some GE white silicone caulk and going
around the outside bottom of the toilet where it meets the floor.
If it's leaking, this will only serve to mask the problem. If it's
just gas this should be a quick and dirty fix. The proper method
is to pull the toilet again and provided the wood is not soaked
with a smelly fluid, re-install with a new wax ring that is warm.
Put it into the microwave for a few seconds to make it nice and
pliable. Careful, you can very quickly heat it too much.
|
198.229 | Two kinds of wax ring | ERLANG::BLACK | | Fri Feb 19 1988 20:57 | 9 |
| There are two varieties of wax ring. One has a polythene extension
sleve on it, and is for use when the closet flange is just below
the floor level. The plain one is for use with a flush-mounted
closet flange. At least, that's what my plumbing book said.
Is it possible that you used a plain wax ring when you needed one
with the polythene?
Andrew
|
198.230 | thanks for the info; one more question. | YODA::SALEM | | Mon Feb 22 1988 16:03 | 17 |
|
RE: .6 I used the plain ring because the flange is flush to the floor.
RE: .5 Heating the ring is a good idea. Maybe that's where I went
wrong and the ring broke because it was too stiff. Thanks.
RE: .4 It sounds like I did not install the toilet right. There
were signs of past soaked subfloor but I don't think that
is the cause here. I should put some caulk around the
base of the toilet (as suggested) and see if the smell
goes away. If it does the then I'll reinstall the toilet.
I did not use Plumers Putty; where do you put it? The
toilet is not totally secure for some reason; so
the seal probably broke without a notice of a water leak.
|
198.231 | Chapter 3...., or is it 4? | BEANCT::DCOX | Try? Try not! Do, or do not. | Mon Feb 22 1988 18:12 | 28 |
| > I did not use Plumers Putty; where do you put it? The
> toilet is not totally secure for some reason; so
> the seal probably broke without a notice of a water leak.
Some folks actually 100% fill the underneath cavities of the bowl so that what
sets on the floor is a layer of putty. Most of us just put a 1/4" wide or so
bead along all surfaces that will come in contact with the floor. This will
help keep the bowl from slipping around as well as create a good seal.
By the way, Mrs. DIYer reminded me that the foul smell was back in our
bathroom and she could not make it go away no matter how hard she scrubbed.
Sigh.....Since I have been fighting a losing battle with the flu, I decided to
wait until next weekend or so to dig in and find out what happened.
As it turned out, Mrs. DIYer deserves the Blue Ribbon Medal of Serendipity.
She opened the window to air out the bath since it was so warm outside
(relatively so) and, in doing so, got her nose next to the hanging plant.
Guess what? The smell, this time, was coming from a hanging plant of dubious
heritage. It seems that the continued dampness in the bath was causing a mold
of some sort to thrive in the plant's soil.
Smell is gone.
I think I'll turn in my hammer and nails and become a couch vegetable.
Dave
|
198.222 | problem solved | RICKS::CHUMSAE | _>ever, <amused | Thu Feb 25 1988 15:17 | 13 |
| Turned out to be a bad casting on the bowl. Exchanged it last night
at Somerville Lumber, put it in and viola!
I'm extremely hesitant to put in a good word for Somerville but
they did the exchange even though I couldn't find the original
receipt. Is this place getting better?
Note that the salesman mentioned he has been in the business for
15 years and in that time he has seen maybe six "bad castings".
However, he has seen two of those in the last two weeks.
Again, the toilet is an Eljer, 12" rough, "water saver" with the
standard bowl.
|
198.253 | Elger toilet alert | RICKS::CHUMSAE | _>ever, <amused | Thu Feb 25 1988 15:24 | 8 |
| See note 1977.4
Writing this just in case there's a bad batch of Elger toilets
on the market.
In short, the bowl water drained out after the post-flush fill
cycle. Turned out to be a bad bowl casting and the fix is to
replace the bowl.
|
198.254 | | JOET::JOET | | Mon Feb 29 1988 12:15 | 4 |
| Anything one can *see* wrong with it, or do you just have to install
it and have it fail?
-joet
|
198.255 | can't see it but here's a test | RICKS::CHUMSAE | _>ever, <amused | Mon Feb 29 1988 15:00 | 6 |
| Nothing visible. As a test you can put the bowl in the tub and
fill it with a bucket to the proper level; if the water drains
out within a minute or so you've got a bad unit. I'd try it a
couple of times since the bad unit I had was able to hold water
once or twice but for the most part would drain out. Make sure
its perfectly level - pretty sensitive on that point. /RC
|
198.8 | running, running, running | FDCV14::DUNN | Karen Dunn 223-2651 | Wed Apr 06 1988 15:10 | 23 |
| I am having the same problem as described in this note. We just
re-did our rental unit and put up new walls in the bathroom. WE only
took the top off of the toilet, not the seat part. Put it back and
now there must be a slow water drainage somewhere because the water
comes on and it re-fills itself on occasion. We can hear this in our
unit so we know it didn't happen before - it would have driven us nute
like it does now.
My husband replace the flapper, the round gasket between the back tank
and the bowl (the thing the flapper sits on when closed) and the whole
flushing assembly (the thing with the float - whatever that's called).
it still happens.
I will look at the siphoning problem mentioned a few replies back.
The water is definitely draining into the bowl and not onto the floor.
he has had this toilet apart 4 times. Last night he thought he had it
fixed and came back downstairs. It was late and we were having tea and
dessert. 5 min later, the water turns on.......
any ideas????
|
198.9 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Wed Apr 06 1988 15:38 | 17 |
|
First, is the flush valve brass or Plastic? Also, did you change
the beveled washers between the flush valve and the tank, and the
sponge beveled washer between the tank and the bowl? If not, do
it. Since you took the tank off the bowl, these washers may have
become dislodged or ruined.
If the flush valve is brass, check the overflow tube to make
sure it is tight and secure. Many times the threads on it will
erode and water will get by at that point. Check the seat that
the flapper sits on. Sometimes brass flush valves will become
pitted or get other erosion type flaws over time and the flapper
will not seat properly.
If the flush valve is plastic, the flush valve itself may have
cracked. If all else fails, buy a new flush valve and the gaskets
to go with it and change the whole unit. It should cost about
$7.00 for the plastic one, probably close to $20.00 for the brass.
And while your at it, get new washers for the toilet bolts.
|
198.256 | More bad ELJER toilets | FASTER::ROBERTSON | | Tue Apr 19 1988 14:00 | 12 |
|
I entered note 2199 on this exact subject. I had a 14" ELJER toilet.
Standard model, about $120. I got TWO bad ones!!! When I went to
pick up the third one, I made them test it by filling up the bowl
as mentioned in a previous note. One of the ones they tested was
bad!!! Looks like ELJER has a major problem. The last one is fine
with the water staying right up at the proper level. All the comments
about having the toilet absolutely level are not true. Mine is in
an old house with a little pitch.
Harry
|
198.44 | flush inconsistency | EDUC8::PHILBROOK | Chico's Daddy | Wed Jun 08 1988 19:28 | 15 |
| We have a toilet problem similar to the one mentioned in .0
Our toilet operates perfectly. I checked everything pointed out
in previous replies, but the problem persists. Sometimes the bowl
will empty out, sometimes it won't. There seems to be no pattern.
I've tried *several* applications of Drano over the last several
weeks and the first flush after the Drano has sat works perfectly, but
then the problem starts all over again.
The toilet is less than 2 years old and this problem has been evident
only for the last month or so. Any ideas? We're grossing out company!
Thanks in advance,
Mike
|
198.257 | Water level rises too high in toilet tank | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Sun Jul 31 1988 22:13 | 23 |
| I looked under the BATHROOM topics, about toilets, and didn't find
an answer. My problem is simple: The water in the tank fills up
to too high a level, before shutting off completely, and starts
running down the overflow pipe in the middle.
Quick background: New work down professionally 5 years ago. Flow
control unit is plastic, with a brass rod going to the float. Its
American Standard model 3140. Writing on the top says "Adjust screw
for 60-90 sec tank fill".
I have taken the unit apart before to clean it (our water is gritty),
but this time, even on the initial tank fill, the water doesn't
shut off. I don't see an adjustment to control the level of the
water in the tank. Thats what I'm looking for/expect.
I know this may be tough to answer, given I haven't described the
shutoff unit in complete detail.
Note this is a problem with the tank filling up with too much water,
and leaking down the overflow pipe. It is not to do with the tank
training, or other leaks around seals.
Hope someone can lend a clue to a simple adjustment!
|
198.258 | | TOKLAS::FELDMAN | PDS, our next success | Sun Jul 31 1988 22:19 | 4 |
| Gee. I always just bend the rod going to the float, to make it
shut off sooner. Or am I missing something more subtle than that?
Gary
|
198.259 | not all toilets have rods to bend | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Sun Jul 31 1988 23:51 | 9 |
| re: -1
Sound like it may be a floatless model (or at least no the kind where the float
is attached to a rod - if fact, I think I have one like that myself.
Anyhow, you can usually replace the guts from around $5 at Spags, so maybe
that's the easiest thing to do.
-mark
|
198.260 | Valve seat is dirty! | NRPUR::FORAN | | Mon Aug 01 1988 12:45 | 6 |
| I have the same problem at our cottage, what I think is happening
is that sand is being drawn in from the valve in the street and
no matter how many times you clean it, it stills gets dirty and
wont completely shut off. A plumber told me that if the street
valve is not completely open it will suck some small amount of sand
in.
|
198.261 | Doesn't sound like my problem (yet) ... | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Mon Aug 01 1988 13:55 | 17 |
| re: .1, .2
No, it does have a plastic float at the end of a threaded brass rod.
The last time I bent a rod in another toilet, it fixed the problem ...
for awhile ... until the rod loosened and rotated 180 degrees, such
that instead of being bent slightly down (shutting off the water 1/2"
before the overflow), to being bent slightly up, and never even
coming close to shutting off the water...
re: .3
Yes, the seat may be dirty, but this is not a slow leak. When the
float makes its final bob up, to [almost?] shut off the water, the
water level is too high. If the water level shut off at a reasonable
level, and then slowly increased over time, I would say it have
a slow leak like you described. Since it doesn't, I don't think
thats the problem!
|
198.262 | | MSEE::CHENG | | Tue Aug 02 1988 12:50 | 0 |
198.263 | Still Sounds Light Float Rod Bending! | TRACTR::DOWNS | | Tue Aug 02 1988 16:01 | 12 |
| It probably is still just a simple flost rod adjustment. You can
check this by manually lifting the rod alittle more when fill is
complete to see if it does shut off the in flow. I suspect that
it will and if so you just have to bend the rod downward to make
the float cause an increase throw on the valve, as the water level
rises up. You can help stop the 180 degree rotation by adding a
small jam nut to the float rod. To do this you just unscrew the
rod from the valve lever and add a not before you screw the rod
back in. After bending the float rod to the proper adjustment, you
simply snug up the jam nut against the valve lever and you should
be OK!
|
198.264 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Wed Aug 03 1988 13:19 | 16 |
|
RE: 0
Have you tried adjusting the screw that manipulates the fill
rate? (ie. 60-90 sec adjustment) I had one of the same type
units and when the screw is turned one way the float is res-
tricted from shutting down the incoming water which allows
the tank to fill in more time but quieter. Turn the screw
the other way and the tank fills quicker adn the float will
sharply cut of the water supply.
You may want to end *all* your troubles the way I did, and
get rid of that ballcock. It was a pain, and I only had mine
for about three months before changing it. Replace it with
a fluidmaster ballcock and you'll never regret it.
|
198.265 | Fluidmaster | SALEM::MOCCIA | | Wed Aug 03 1988 13:52 | 11 |
| Re .7:
FYI, we just had several bits of plumbing done at our house. The
plumber's comment on seeing the typical Fluidmaster setup in our
three toilet tanks was that, for our information, that type of
setup is illegal in New Hampshire because it is not an anti-syphon
design. Not being a plumber, I can't contribute any more than that;
maybe somebody else in this file can.
pbm
|
198.266 | | SMURF::WALLACE | Life's a beach, then you dive! | Wed Aug 03 1988 14:38 | 17 |
|
RE: .8
I understand the point being made, but I don't believe the
ballcock that is presently in the base note authors toilet
has an anti-syphon design either. I *think* FLUIDMASTER
does make an anti-syphon model. I know they have two kinds.
One is the basic model 200, and the other I believe, is the
model 400. The model 400 is more expensive which might in-
dicate that it has this feature, but I don't know for sure.
I wouldn't doubt that the "authorities" probably have such
an anti-syphon rule for toilets, but if you keep the cover
on the tank, don't use tank based bowl cleaners, and don't
accidently drop anything detrimental into the tank, where's
the danger?
|
198.267 | The screw doesn't work for me | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Thu Aug 04 1988 15:09 | 10 |
| re: .7
"The screw" - Yes, I tried adjusting it some. However, it looked
like when the water was half way up in the tank, the screw was not
in contact with the base, so I didn't see how turning it in or out
would affect the level at which the water shut off in the tank.
I also have 3 toilets all with the same unit, and most of them are
running into the problem, so I'd like a fix that is not "replace
all the units"! If you know what I mean.
|
198.268 | Replace 'em | QUARK::LIONEL | May you live in interesting times | Sat Aug 06 1988 04:14 | 6 |
| I'd just replace 'em all. I've used the Fluidmaster valves and
they work great. The price is about $7. The standard valves with
the float ball are fighting a losing battle, as they work against
the water pressure instead of with it.
Steve
|
198.269 | Whats the Fluidmaster ones? | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Sat Aug 06 1988 21:34 | 10 |
| re: .11
Are the Fluidmaster ones all plastic, and have the float that rises
vertically around the main upright inlet pipe? I may have bought
one of them as a replacement for another one in another house I
had about 7 years ago.
Does the Fluidmaster have a water level adjustment control? (If
its the same as I had years ago, you could control the rise of the
float, with a little clip on a stainless steel rod)
|
198.270 | Obvious? | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Sat Aug 06 1988 21:38 | 5 |
| And if they are great, why aren't they installed as "standard"
equipment? Don't answer that - probably because Fluidmaster doesn't
sell any fixtures, and American Standard certainly isn't going to
put a brank x control in their toilet! And, who is to say the
"standard"/"stock" floats are better anyways, right? !!
|
198.271 | Anti-Syphon? | TLE::MEIER | Bill Meier - VAX Ada | Sat Aug 06 1988 21:43 | 8 |
| Also, with this "anti-syphon" design? Anyone know what the rule
in MA is? Why is my ballcock not anti-syphon? Whats the difference
between a Fuildmaster 200 and 400 (unless as stated the latter is
"anti-syphon").
How could either model (ballcock, Fluidmaster) syphon water from
the tank back into your water supply? (I assume that is what happens
- can someone explain in a little more detail? Thanks!)
|
198.272 | | QUARK::LIONEL | May you live in interesting times | Mon Aug 08 1988 03:00 | 12 |
| re: .12, .14
Yes, you have it right. They adjust by sliding the float up and
down bia a clip on a rod.
The only difference between the Fluidmaster 200 and 400 is the
anti-siphon mechanism. I think it requires that the water output
jet be above the water level in the tank at all times, otherwise
a siphon could possibly form. I am in NH, but bought the model
400 anyway - it's only a couple of bucks difference.
Steve
|
198.10 | Defective replacement parts | MAZE::HOULE | | Thu Dec 15 1988 18:06 | 13 |
| -< a plumber i'll never be >-
My last two weeks sounds like .8. But I think I've got it licked!.
I have a few words of warning about replacement parts. The flapper:
They make them CHEAP today! Before you leave the store check that
it isn't warped! The Flush valve: (the part NOT connected to incoming
water) The rubber seal I got with it was NOT big enough. I took
a bath with the first flush! And lastly, a hacker's suggestion.
Sometimes the (new) flapper leaks a little: drip.. drips... Try
putting Vaseline on it. Its seems to be working for me!
steve (( Why is computer architecture easier than plumbing?? ))
|
198.275 | Can hairline cracks in a porcelain toilet be fixed ? | CSC32::S_LEDOUX | Specialization is for insects. | Wed Feb 15 1989 15:51 | 12 |
| Notes 283 and 724 weren't really applicable so I figured I'd start a new
note with specific title. Anyway, I've got this slow leak coming out from
around the base of the toilet bowl (all around it, not just one side).
The leak didn't show up right away after a flush so I pulled it up.
The bottom of the tank has a small network of hairline cracks that can
account for the "slowness" of the leak. Can these hairline cracks be
repaired with some kind of goop ? Or do I have to replace the thing ?
The toilet is porcelain, btw.
Ideas? Thanks.
Scott.
|
198.276 | YUK! | VINO::GRANSEWICZ | Which way to Tahiti? | Wed Feb 15 1989 18:08 | 4 |
|
Some things are better untried. I think this may fall into that
category...
|
198.277 | Try this. | USEM::CALCAGNI | A.F.F.A. | Wed Feb 15 1989 18:09 | 12 |
|
Scott,
I had the same problem when my tank froze and then someone added
hot water..
Anyhow I used the Silicon Waterproof sealer in a small tube. It
is made by GE. I put it inside and outside and it hasn't leaked
in over 1 year.
Cal.
|
198.278 | I doubt it's the hairline cracks... | BOSTON::SWIST | Jim Swist BXO 224-1699 | Thu Feb 16 1989 12:05 | 12 |
| Hairline cracks in china are fairly common - I believe they only
occur in the surface glazing and probably have nothing to do with
your leak.
Sounds to me like the closet flange seal (wax ring) is gone. A new one
is not too hard to install, although you will have to completely
disassemble and reassemble the toilet.
Putting a sealant around the base of the toilet is a poor stopgap.
It will simply confine the leaking water to the inside of the toilet
base where it will eventually screw up the floor or seep into somthing
or other.
|
198.279 | Try Caulking. Nothing to Lose. | ARGUS::RICHARD | | Thu Feb 16 1989 12:12 | 7 |
| I got lucky with using that silocone caulking to fix a leaking toilet
tank that had a hairline crack. So lucky that it hasn't leaked
at all for 10 years so far. I didn't even drain the tank to fix
it. All I did was smear it on with my finger under water. As soon
as I smeared it on, the leaking stopped. Wish I was that lucky
with other things I try to do.
|
198.280 | | VINO::GRANSEWICZ | Which way to Tahiti? | Thu Feb 16 1989 16:12 | 8 |
|
Using a temporary fix for a tank of water seems to me to be
a tad shortsighted. You're banking on a "hairline crack" not becoming
a broken tank. I'd bite the bullet and replace it now, before a
catastrophic failure. Why wait? There are better things in life
to gamble on! ;-)
|
198.281 | Thanks for the ideas.... | CSC32::S_LEDOUX | Specialization is for insects. | Thu Feb 16 1989 17:51 | 16 |
|
Wifey wants to replace it too...It just seems a bit of an overkill
to replace a 2-300 $ john to safeguard the new $50 floor about to
go in.
Maybe I should just replace the 2 dollar ring and put it all back
together again...If no leaks, take it all out and put the floor
in and re-replace the ring.
Buying a new toilet seems a little scary. I did some preliminary
calling around and was told by all parties that they stopped making
that particular color a couple years ago -- which means wifey will
want me to replace the matching tub too (YOW!@@#$@$#$%) :-)
As always, thanks to everyone in DECs best notesfile.
Scott.
|
198.282 | Perhaps this? | MAMIE::DCOX | | Fri Feb 17 1989 01:07 | 34 |
| Got to ask a not-so-obvious question.
You mentioned a leak. Do you know that there is a leak? Or are you seeing
moisture and presume a leak?
The reason for the question is that sweating can look like leaking. Sweating
due to cold water in a warm bathroom can appear two three places; one common,
one not so common.
Common - on the outside and/or underside of the tank.
Not so common - on the outside of the bowl itself.
The sweating can actually be severe enough to look like a leak. Especially if
the tank is tilted any bit at all; this will cause the sweat to run to one
corner.
One clue to sweating of the tank and not leaking is if the tank never tries to
fill itself between flushes. A clue to the same situation in the bowl is if
the level of the water stays constant over a while of non-use.
If you have linoleum or ceramic flooring, try putting some food coloring in the
tank - the brighter the color, the better (for obvious reasons, orange and
yellow are not a good idea).
If you have a leak anywhere from the tank, you should see the colored water -
give it a while to seep through. If not, try some coloring in the bowl.
Sweating will produce non-colored moisture.
Luck,
Dave
|
198.283 | Gonna try the $2.50 solution first. | CSC32::S_LEDOUX | Specialization is for insects. | Sat Feb 18 1989 13:59 | 7 |
| >You mentioned a leak. Do you know that there is a leak? Or are you seeing
>moisture and presume a leak?
I'm pretty sure its a leak only because, as far as I can tell by
"feel", the whole thing is dry - except for the puddle on the floor.
Scott.
|
198.288 | Toilet gurgles and backs up when washer drains | NANOOK::LEBEL | L.D. Lebel DTN 265-6221 | Sun Mar 26 1989 22:52 | 18 |
|
I've got a problem as follows: When we do the laundry and the washer
goes into the spin cycle, on some occasions (about 30-50% of the
time), the toilet which is next to the washing machine gurgles and
gargles. Sometimes, soap appears in the toilet and on a couple
of occasions, the water in the toilet gets to the brim.
Currently the washer drains into a pipe which is 37 inches
tall. There is also a trap at the bottom of this drain pipe.
What I can't figure out is if there is blockage somewhere in the
septic line so it can't drain fast enough or if there is some sort
of incorrect hookup. Any ideas? We have to time it so we're not
sitting on the flush when the washer goes into the spin cycle else
we may get a wet a** out of it.
Looking for sugestions..../ldl
|
198.289 | Snake the Vent | OASS::B_RAMSEY | Beautiful plumage the Norwegian Blue | Mon Mar 27 1989 15:59 | 19 |
| Could be several things. As you implied, could be plumbed wrong
or a blockage. Blockage could be one of two places, the line or
the vent pipe. Get a snake and run it down the vent pipe from the
roof. Birds and small animals fall in and die and built nests in
the pipes and block the pipe. This restricts the air flow and so
the water cannot drain. I had a kitchen sink which would not drain.
I ran a 25 ft snake down the vent pipe from the roof and now it
drains like a champ.
The other blockage could be in the line itself. Most plumbing requires
a "cleanout" at every fixture. A cleanout is a Y connector where 1 leg
of the Y has a removable cap and the other is the path of line. You
open the cap and run a snake down the line.
If the the line is plumbed incorrectly, the only fix is to replumb
the fixtures. If this is new construction, your builder may be
held responsible. If old construction, it will probably be up to
you to fix and pay.
|
198.290 | time to pump the tank? | REGENT::POWERS | | Mon Mar 27 1989 18:45 | 11 |
| Do you have a septic tank?
If so, it's probably (past) time to get it pumped out.
I put 'past' in paentheses because if it is time, and the tank
is full, get it pumped fast, before the solids drain out into the leaching
field.
Does the toilet near the washer flush slowly on its own?
The ground-level toilet in my previous house started flushing slowly
when it was time to pump the tank.
- tom]
|
198.291 | see 2063 | OASS::B_RAMSEY | Beautiful plumage the Norwegian Blue | Mon Mar 27 1989 21:31 | 2 |
| see 2063
|
198.292 | separate drain is best! | MAMTS1::CHMARTIN | ASCII = 10**-3 bitmaped image | Tue Mar 28 1989 21:03 | 9 |
|
<<< Also refering to .2 asking Do you have a septic tank?
It's really best if you do have a septic tank not to drain the washer
into the system. Better to run a separate line outside preferably
not above the drain field.
Chris
|
198.293 | do tell, do tell | AKOV75::LAVIN | Oh, It's a profit deal | Wed Mar 29 1989 13:25 | 1 |
| I'm curious about this ... where do you run the line from the washer ?
|
198.294 | rep .-1 | VMSSPT::NICHOLS | Herb - CSSE VMS SUPPORT at ZK | Wed Mar 29 1989 15:47 | 4 |
| To a dry-well, sometimes known as a cesspool (?)
herb
|
198.295 | Dry wells for washers are VERY common | MAMIE::DCOX | | Wed Mar 29 1989 15:51 | 16 |
| re draining washer... (and we will not discuss relative legality)
You dig a "dry well" outside and next to the foundation; 6'Lx4W'x4D' (can be
shallower, but you run into possible frost problems). Cut a hole in the
foundation about 2' down to pass a 2" pipe through (plastic will do fine).
Fill the hole half way with crushed gravel, lay in perforated pipe the length
of the hole and connected to the pipe going through the foundation, fill almost
to the top with more gravel, cover with loam and plant grass.
Use non-phosphate, liquid detergent (Arm & Hammer works fine) and it will never
clog. However, you will be amazed at how often you will need to cut the grass.
Works fine.
Dave
|
198.296 | Check before you dig (if you want to be legal) | KOBAL::TALCOTT | | Wed Mar 29 1989 23:43 | 3 |
| re last few: So-called dry wells are illegal in many towns.
Trace
|
198.212 | No humming, just plain noisy | PBA::MARCHETTI | Mama said there'd be days like this. | Tue Apr 18 1989 18:24 | 13 |
| I just had two new toilets (Kohler) installed in a new addition.
One works fine, the other is extremely noisy when filling. It
sounds as if air is being sucked in with the supply water. The
shutoff valve is wide open, and there is no leaking. The two
toilets are mounted back to back with a wall in between and are
supplied by the same line.
I do intend to call the plumber back if necessary, however, if it's
something simple, I'd rather not go through that hassle.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Bob
|
198.111 | How do I know if it is leaking? | PIRATE::RSMITH | | Mon May 22 1989 15:28 | 10 |
|
Does anyone know of a good way to determine if the toilet is leaking
before it does massive damage to the floor. Reason I ask is because
I just replaced a bathroom floor which was damaged due to a leaking
toilet. I also replaced the seal, and now I'd like to find a way
to make sure it isn't leaking again so that I don't have to go
through replacing the floor ever again.
Thanks
|
198.112 | Flush and run, flush and run... | WEFXEM::COTE | I sat (where?) one night (when?).. | Mon May 22 1989 15:54 | 8 |
| It'll only leak during flushes.
Can you see the soil pipe from the floor below the toilet? If so,
have someone flush it while you're watching from below.
I'm assuming the toilet itself has no cracks...
Edd
|
198.113 | | PIRATE::RSMITH | | Mon May 22 1989 17:06 | 5 |
| Your right no cracks, and no visible signs (or at least from what
I know) of any leaks. But I don't want to take any chances that
I'd ever have to replace this again.
|
198.114 | Seal around the base! | CSMET2::CHACE | let's go fishin' | Mon May 22 1989 17:22 | 12 |
| It's almost impossible for a toilet to leak where the base meets
the flange because of the way they fit together. Most leaks in a
toilet are in the supply pipe (which you can see easily) or between
the tank-bowl connection (which you can usually see easily). Most
of the water damage under a toilet which is blamed on toilet leaks
is from condensation running down the side of the toilet and then
under it to the wood below. The easiest way to (mostly) eliminate
this, is to seal the toilet to the floor with bathroom-type silicone
sealer of the same (or similar) color as the toilet. If this is
applied carefully, it's almost invisible. Just don't use too much.
Kenny
|
198.115 | y | MAMIE::DCOX | | Mon May 22 1989 18:03 | 7 |
| I guess I talked about this in another note.
I just dump a TON of very yuckky colored food coloring in the bowl and flush.
If it leaks, you will see it. Much better to take care of non-permanent (and
non-smelly) food coloring stains than the alternatives.
Dave
|
198.116 | | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Tue May 23 1989 17:10 | 7 |
|
.22> It's almost impossible for a toilet to leak where the
.22> base meets the flange because of the way they fit together.
I saw this happen in my house. The wax ring was very old, and
had deteriorated.
|
198.117 | | TOKLAS::FELDMAN | PDS, our next success | Tue May 23 1989 19:18 | 8 |
| re: .24
I heard a horror story recently where this type of leak happened, too.
In this case, the problem was that the drain pipe was cast iron, and
the connection was lead. The lead eventually failed, I guess due to
mechanical stress.
Gary
|
198.118 | Another hint | MAKITA::MCCABE | | Thu May 25 1989 17:34 | 17 |
| I have seen several toilets leak from the wax seal. If you replace
the seal, make sure you get a seal with the plastic insert that
slips down into the closet flange, it won't move around as much
when you put the toilet down on it. I have seen plumbers re-use
an old seal - thats asking for trouble. The comment about putting
down some silicone, or plunbers putty around the base of the toilet
is a good one, but if there is a leak, this just holds the "water"
in that area, eventually the subfloor will get wet and rot will
set in.
If you can get under the bathroom, say in an unfinished basement
fine, you can visually inspect for leaks. If you can not, finish
the floor up to the closet flange and do not put in the caulking
or plumbers putty on the toilet base. Give the toilet a workout,
try the food coloring, and if no leaks, then put the bead of silicone
around the base.
Chris
|
198.11 | Check for siphon action | MEIS::FONSECA | I heard it through the Grapevine... | Fri Jun 23 1989 14:21 | 33 |
| Another tip for toilets which seem to be incurable: check to
the toilet bowl refill tube which runs from the fresh water inlet
valve to the tank overflow tube. It is possible that it is siphoning
water backwards through the opening at the bottom of the inlet valve
(where you normally think of water coming OUT to fill up the tank,
flow reverses direction when the the tank is full, and is now winding
its way up inside the valve assembly and out the refill tube.)
If the refill tube is stuck far enough down into the overflow tube, it
can build up enough head to develope a siphon.
I my case, I replaced the whole flapper and overflow tube and the problem
got much worse. I was starting to loose sleep over this! You can verify
this problem by pulling the refill tube out of the overflow tube.
This will break the siphon, and the leaking should stop immediately.
Diagram follows:
.
Bowl refill tube --> . ' ' .
. .
. .
------ .
| .| | . |
/---| . |---\ | . |
----------| | . | |----------------| . |----------Water-Level-----------
Float --> |----| . |----| | . | ^
| ? | | . | |-- Siphon 'head'
Inlet valve | | | . | v
Assembly --> | | | |
| || | 'Troublesome' | |
| | <-- Opening | | <-- Over flow tube
_______________/ \_____________________| |________________________________
Bottom of toilet tank
|
198.12 | | MISFIT::DEEP | Set hidden by moderator | Fri Jun 23 1989 14:38 | 12 |
| re: .11
While we're on the subject, and we seem to have some toilet experts
around (no offense)... 8-)
Can anyone explain to me why the refill tube flows into that plastic
cylinder, instead of just flowing into the tank? Is it accomplishing
something other than just filling the tank?
Thanks!
|
198.13 | A full bowl is a happy bowl.. | HPSTEK::DVORAK | Drink Grim,the Decoffeenated Caffeine | Fri Jun 23 1989 16:03 | 4 |
|
It refills the bowl, so as to maintian the water seal of the trap,
if I understand your question correctly.
|
198.25 | FLANGE TOO LOW (???) | ATREUS::ABELOW | | Mon Aug 14 1989 02:22 | 19 |
|
I have a "similar" problem. I recently put in a new floor in by half
bath. I had carpet before - I raised it with 1/4" plywood as a
subfloor, and then put down 2" square tiles.
Soon after the new floor was in, the grout became stained. It quickly
was so wet that the tiles started coming loose. I took out the toilet,
let the subfloor dry out completely, and re-tiled. When I re-installed
the toilet, I used a flanged wax ring with a second wax ring (thinking
that the extra wax would help prevent leaks).
Well, the problem is back! My question: IS THE FLANGE TOO LOW?
Also, what would it take to fix it? What should I expect to pay a
plumber for any repairs that you may recommend?
Thanks for your help.
David
|
198.26 | Try a rubber seal | VIDEO::NOTT | 1001st point of light | Wed Aug 23 1989 21:26 | 15 |
| Just a quick comment - I was fighting a leak problem from the flange
being too high (always compressing the wax seal too much). I even
went so far as to raise the floor to try and regain the proper distance
from flange to floor - didn't work. I finally found a foam rubber seal
at Sommerville Lumber - only cost $1.39. It's worked very well for me.
It's resilient enough to compress as much as needed, & still do the
sealing function it's supposed to.
If your flange is too low, & you think you need a double seal, try
getting 2 of these parts, and cement them together with RTV. I'd do
that before trying a double wax seal, now that I know the rubber parts
are available!
Good Luck!
Bill
|
198.543 | Feedback on "NO-WAX" toilet gasket | 33864::RICE_J | This space for rent cheap! | Thu Nov 16 1989 18:56 | 9 |
| Has anyone had any experience with the "NO-WAX" (Reg. TM) (it's made of
rubber) toilet gasket. It came with a flange that I bought for a new toilet
installation, but having no experience with it, I am reluctant to use
it without some endorsements. If I don't get some responses, I'll
probably play it safe and use the old wax standby. (HELP!)
Thanks,
Jim
|
198.297 | Loose Toilet Tank | SALEM::PAGLIARULO_G | | Mon Nov 27 1989 17:15 | 15 |
| My upstairs toilet has been leaking from the bolts that hold the
tank to the seat. I went out yesterday and bought new bolts and
washers which seem to have done the trick for now but this is the
2nd time in a little over a year that I have had this problem. I
think it's related to the fact that the tank, while not loose does
seem to have some play in it. Much more than the toilet downstairs.
Actually it seems kind of "bouncy", like the bolts aren't tight
enough so that the center gasket isn't really compressed. I think the
movement over time is causing the leak.
Now for the question - should the bolts be really cranked down?
I've been hesitant to do that lest I crack the ceramic.
Thanks,
George
|
198.298 | No | WEFXEM::COTE | OK, who wants a Tangwich??? | Mon Nov 27 1989 19:01 | 8 |
| > should the bolts really be cranked down?
No, you'll most definitely crack the ceramic.
I've no idea what you should torque them to. Snug/ft.lbs works
well..;^)
Edd
|
198.299 | | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Mon Nov 27 1989 19:13 | 9 |
|
Re: .0
If there is too much play between the tank and the wall, you might
want to attach something to the wall (unobtrusively), to prevent
the tank from moving so much.
-tm
|
198.45 | Toilet won't empty | YOGI::HICKS | | Thu Dec 28 1989 14:56 | 15 |
| Its been a while since this topic was used so I think I will
reopen it.
We have a toilet problem similar to the one mentioned in .8. The
difference is the bowl never completely empties. The water level rarely
gets less than 1/2 full. We also have tried Drano, plungers, etc... to no
avail. This olny happens to the toilet on the second floor, the one on the
first floor works fine. There are no water savers in either toilet. Both are
around 18 years old (we bought the house last year). Any suggestions would be
appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Rod
|
198.46 | | IAMOK::DELUCO | Place clever phrase here | Thu Dec 28 1989 16:02 | 7 |
| Try a snake if you haven't already. If no luck, remove the toilet and
check/replace the wax ring. It could be obstucting the flow. Also
check the passage inside the toilet bowl visually and by hand. If
still a problem, consider replacing the toilet. It could be a poorly
designed unit. You didn't mention if this problem has existed since
you've owned the house and/or if the toilet upstairs is the same
make/model as the one downstairs.
|
198.47 | re. .9 - check for plugged holes under the rim | AKOLD1::KUMOREK | | Thu Dec 28 1989 19:49 | 15 |
| We had a similar problem and after much plunging and snaking a plumber
was finally called. He found that some of the holes under the rim (where the
new water enters the bowl) were plugged. Because the new water was not
swirling properly into the bowl, the entire bowl would not empty. The problem
was sporadic as individual holes became clogged or unclogged. He unclogged
all of them with a bent coat hanger.
Our reason for plugged holes: A VANISH DROP-IN that flaked completely apart in
2 days. You could see the flakes floating in the tank. At each flush, some
stuck to the edges of the tank and some tried to go into the bowl with the water.
Some made it through the little holes and some plugged the holes!
EXPENSIVE LESSON LEARNED: Don't use anything other than LIQUID time-release
deoderizer in the toilet tank!
|
198.48 | Thanks for the suggestions!! | YOGI::HICKS | | Fri Dec 29 1989 16:22 | 36 |
| RE .11
>We had a similar problem and after much plunging and snaking a plumber
>was finally called. He found that some of the holes under the rim (where the
>new water enters the bowl) were plugged. Because the new water was not
>swirling properly into the bowl, the entire bowl would not empty. The problem
>was sporadic as individual holes became clogged or unclogged. He unclogged
>all of them with a bent coat hanger.
This could very well be the problem. The tank walls are very black (mineral
deposits?) and we see tiny black particles in the bowl occasionally. Looks like
I'll have to bend a coat hanger tonight.
RE .10
>Try a snake if you haven't already. If no luck, remove the toilet and
>check/replace the wax ring. It could be obstucting the flow. Also
>check the passage inside the toilet bowl visually and by hand. If
>still a problem, consider replacing the toilet. It could be a poorly
>designed unit. You didn't mention if this problem has existed since
>you've owned the house and/or if the toilet upstairs is the same
>make/model as the one downstairs.
I will be picking up a snake tonight. I didn't think a snake could make the
bends inside the bowl drain but I'll give it a shot. The toilet is the same
model and the downstairs one. We have had this problem since we purchased the
house last December. We intend to remodel both bathrooms in the near future
so we have been trying to makethe existing units last until then.
RE .10 & .11
Thanks for such quick responses. Both ideas look valid and I will
be trying them out tonight.
Rod.
|
198.49 | Jet hole in bottom front... | SMURF::PINARD | | Fri Dec 29 1989 16:45 | 6 |
| The holes around the rim and also some toilets have a jet hole at the
bottom front that may get plugged which will cause this problem...
It's about an inch round and helps force things to flush...
Jean
|
198.50 | special toilet snakes (should be in the ZOO notesifile?) | NSSG::ROSENBAUM | | Fri Dec 29 1989 17:40 | 10 |
| re: .12: I will be picking up a snake tonight. I didn't think a snake
could make the bends inside the bowl drain but I'll give it a
shot.
There are snakes built into a bent tube specially designed for
toilet bowls.
I've never used one so I do not know how well they work.
__Rich
|
198.51 | Speciality items | OASS::RAMSEY_B | Don't become a statistic | Fri Dec 29 1989 17:46 | 3 |
| The speciality ones have a rubber fitting so that they are less likely
to scratch the bowl. They work on toilet bowls but are too short
(about 3 feet long) for most any other use.
|
198.52 | | HANNAH::DCL | David Larrick | Fri Dec 29 1989 21:25 | 2 |
| The official name I've heard for this tool is fairly picturesque:
"closet auger".
|
198.53 | | VINO::DZIEDZIC | | Sat Dec 30 1989 00:11 | 5 |
| I had a similar problem in the first house I bought. The
real estate agent sent out a couple of guys who poured some
muriatic acid into the overflow tube. That cleaned it out
and fixed the problem. Wear eye protection/gloves if you
try this.
|
198.119 | mystery leak | PSYCHE::LEUNG | | Mon Jan 08 1990 00:56 | 29 |
|
A few wks ago, I noticed a small leak which dripped some water onto the
floor. I assumed this was from the tank. Recently, my husband had
"fixed" an internal leak but it took him weeks and he kept having to
buy new parts. This time, I thought I'd better get professional help
so I called the plumber. He replaced the 2 bolts holding the tank down
to the bowl, but there was still a small leak onto the floor.
He then went off to get a gasket to replace the new one my husband had
just put in but which he said was a cheap one. When he was done, it
seem to be dry. A wk later, we got a bill for $86.00. When I asked
him, he said they charge for 15 min travel time and I guess the time it
took him to go get the gasket; shouldn't plumbers carry things like
these in their van?!
Anyway, a few days ago, I noticed another leak coming from one of the
bolts he replaced. I stuck some newspaper between the side of the
other bolt, but it was dry. The leak appears to be from just one side
of the tank; I could see drops oozing down and dropping onto the floor.
I called the plumber again to tell him to come back to fix it, but
today, the leak stopped. Does anyone have any idea what could be
causing this on and off leak? Could it be a hair-line crack in the
tank that the plumber can't see? We're not sure how old this toilet
is, but I wonder if we might as well replace the whole darn thing!
Mystery solvers? Thanks.
-Stella
|
198.120 | | HKFINN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Jan 08 1990 12:49 | 12 |
| There's about 184 million different gaskets and parts for different
brands of toilets (even different models of the SAME brand of toilet!)
It's absolutely incredible. I wouldn't necessarily fault the plumber
for not having the part he needed on his truck.
It sounds like one of my typical experiences with plumbing, it always
seems to take me at least a week to fix anything, because as soon
as I start something else goes wrong. Don't get discouraged, it
can be fixed, and you (or your husband) can do it and save $86.
Just be patient. If you don't have the patience, you can always
spend money, but I'm not sure that guarantees it will get fixed
any faster.
|
198.121 | | HKFINN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Mon Jan 08 1990 12:52 | 2 |
| Oh yeah - you might try taking the toilet apart and putting a little
silicone caulking on the gasket before putting it together.
|
198.122 | condensation is not just for windows | OASS::RAMSEY_B | Put the wet stuff on the red stuff | Mon Jan 08 1990 16:30 | 10 |
| Just because there is moisture on the floor around the toilet does not
mean the toilet is leaking. Is there condensation on the sides of the
bowl. The water filling the bowl is cold and the temp. in the house is
warm and if the humidity is high (likely in a bathroom) the warm wet
air colliding with the cool bowl will cause the moisture in the air to
form condensation on the outside of the bowl. Enough of this can cause
small rivulets of water to run down the side of the bowl and on to the
floor.
Another possibility is people missing the bowl when using it. ;^).
|
198.123 | One thing K-Y is *not* good for... | EPOCH::JOHNSON | | Tue Jan 09 1990 11:39 | 7 |
| I have fixed *MANY* toilets successfully. Most of my early problems were with
the gasket between the tank and bowl, and went away when I started applying
Vaseline liberally to the gasket before installing it.
Don't use a water-soluble lubricant, like K-Y.
Pete
|
198.124 | Vaseline and rubber don't always mix well | NSSG::ROSENBAUM | | Tue Jan 09 1990 14:13 | 5 |
| Vaseline and other petroleum based lubricants can damage rubber (and
latex, I suppose) over time. One of the reasons K-Y is recommended for
certain latex based applications.
So Vaseline may not be the best lubricant, either.
|
198.300 | Worms Found in Toilet | STEREO::HO | | Thu Feb 15 1990 16:07 | 16 |
| I have a somewhat delicate situation to describe. On several occasions
I have found worms in the toilets in my house. Yes, worms. I don't
think they're tapeworms or other intestinal parisites. They look like
common earthworms. I don't think the occupants of the house are the
source. The worms have been seen on one occassion after repeated
flushes while cleaning out the bowl. On the other occassions they were
seen prior to using toilet.
Where are they coming from? This is a three story house in Newton
Mass. We're on town water and sewer. All the worms I'm personally
familiar with are hibernating several feet under the frozen ground.
Could they be coming in through the water supply? The image of worms
coming out of a drinking water tap makes me quesy. I've been drinking
that stuff for years. First Perrier, now this. What next?
- gene
|
198.301 | | SHARE::CALDERA | | Thu Feb 15 1990 17:16 | 11 |
| It could be that the sewer pipe leading to the street main line may
be cracked or deteriorating several feet down where the ground is not
frozenand the little cridders are still active. The leak could be
providing them with a warm wet environment (which they like) and some
of them fall in, there natural instinct would be to head upward to get
to dryer land and they end up in your toilet. Do they always appear in
the same toilet ? or on different floor ?
Just my thoughts,
Paul
|
198.302 | | STEREO::HO | | Thu Feb 15 1990 19:02 | 5 |
| We found the worms in both first and second floor toilets. The second
floor toilets are a good 20' above the height of the sewer pipe exit.
It's hard to believe they could climb that high inside a slippery pipe.
- gene
|
198.303 | | VIA::GLANTZ | Mike, DTN 381-1253 | Thu Feb 15 1990 20:12 | 14 |
| Yikes.
You might want to test the theory that the source of the worms
is your water (hard to imagine) by running some tap water into a 5
gallon pail and letting it sit for a day to see if any worms hatch.
Alternatively, you could check to see if they're coming from the waste
system by removing a couple of grease traps around the house and see
if any are in there, though not finding them wouldn't necessarily
prove anything.
I sure hope you find them in the drains, and not in your water.
One last theory: any practical jokers in your house?
|
198.304 | It's Earthworms | STEREO::HO | | Fri Feb 16 1990 13:00 | 20 |
| My intrepid wife caught one of the little devils yesterday (I didn't
ask how she did this), put it in a bottle, and took it to the town's
public health office. A minor commotion ensued when some of the
employees said that the municipal water supply might be contaminated by
worms. The public health commissioner was called in. After staring at
the worm for a few seconds he asked if it came out of the toilet bowl
or the tank. "The bowl" replied my wife. "Cool it guys, it's just an
earthworm" said the commissioner. "Probably just crawled out of the
sewer". Just to be sure he sent my wife to a local parasitologist for
a positive ID. He confirmed the commissioner's opinion and mentioned
that he'd received several similar calls in the past few weeks. As he
returned the bottle with the worm, my wife responded "No thanks, you
can keep it". Whew! At least that gets us off the hook as source.
I still can't figure out how they levitate themselves up those slippery
pipes. I'll pass the advice on hunting worms in our grease traps to my
wife who, I'm sure, will give me her unsolicited opinion on it.
- gene
|
198.305 | Gawd, what next? | GIAMEM::RIDGE | | Fri Feb 16 1990 13:18 | 3 |
| Sounds like a good subject for the next Steven King novel, Or Freddie
Kruger movie.
|
198.306 | bug-be-gone ? | CANYON::LEEDS | Scuba dooba doo | Fri Feb 16 1990 14:58 | 9 |
| This sounds like the old "alligator living in New York sewer" headline
from the National Expirer....
Could you flush some insecticide-like liquid down the toilet and see
if they go away ??? Maybe a partial bottle of some concentrated bug
killer might cause 'em to disappear.... or you might create some
mutant form that'll grow in the middle of the night and........
|
198.27 | Other solutions to flange too high? | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Feb 19 1990 11:54 | 14 |
| I have the same problem as the base note here, but the elbow (and I
did use a street elbow) comes up so high that if I trimmed enough
off, there would be nothing left to connect to. Is there some sort
of special elbow that doesn't rise as high that I might be able to
find?
Steve
P.S. I want to put in a good word for the organization of this
conference. I was SURE that nobody else had ever encountered this
problem, but ten seconds with the keyword list showed an EXACT
match! Of course, descriptive titles DO help immensely!
Steve
|
198.307 | Not a pretty sight....(my wife would die at the sight) | WFOV11::KOEHLER | Thru slush,sleet & snow..we'll go | Mon Feb 19 1990 12:16 | 5 |
| Almost any good drain cleaner will rid the pipes of worms....that
is the sewer pipe. If it's the "fresh" water....the city has to
do something..........
Jim
|
198.308 | | NSSG::FEINSMITH | I'm the NRA | Mon Feb 19 1990 12:29 | 8 |
| Actually, depending on how old the pipes are, they may not be as
slippery as you think. The newer plastic waste pipe is much more
slippery than the older metal pipes, which, with age, could gum up and
allow an earthworm to easily climb up.
Eric
|
198.28 | there are different heights ... | REGENT::MERSEREAU | | Mon Feb 19 1990 13:58 | 9 |
|
Re: .7
Cast iron elbows and flanges are much shorter than the plastic ones.
I don't understand why they don't make plastic ones for retrofitting.
I had to have mine redone in cast iron because of this, and the
price did not thrill me (especially since I usually do it myself,
but couldn't this time).
|
198.309 | Where's your entrepreneurial spirit? | CORNIS::MEANEY | JIM | Mon Feb 19 1990 15:59 | 12 |
| Gene,
You could make this a positve experience and make a few bucks to boot.
Why not open a BAIT shop on the side? :-)
Jim,
(who also lives in Newton, but only have earthworms in my garden and
compost pile)
|
198.310 | hold the Drano please! | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Mon Feb 19 1990 19:09 | 9 |
| re: .6 and .7
Please be kind to the environment. A large kettle of boiling water
should prove to be just as effective, and a lot less damaging to the
environment.
BTW this is a good solution for stuck drains too.
regards,
Mark
|
198.311 | | ALLVAX::DIAMOND | No brag, Just fact. | Mon Feb 19 1990 19:28 | 8 |
|
re .10
A large kettle of boiling water is not going to get rid of worms.
Use the Drano. A little will do the trick.
Mike
|
198.29 | | DECXPS::TIMMONS | I'm a Pepere! | Tue Feb 20 1990 10:46 | 6 |
| Rather than try fitting a 90 degree elbow, how about using 2 45's?
In this manner, as I've just seen my plumber do this, you can twist
them in such a way as to reduce the height that a 90 achieves.
Lee
|
198.312 | Sometimes good, sometimes not so | SALEM::KUPTON | | Tue Feb 20 1990 11:33 | 9 |
| re:10
Often times, the Drano or Mr. Plumber actually help the environment.
Most fecal wastes contain acids and Drano and like products neutralize
the acid. The "stuff" that clogs drains is most often hair, skin,
toothpaste, saliva. Proteins. The chemicals that break them down
are bases or alkalies, the prime ingredient in Drano etc.
Ken
|
198.313 | | VIA::GLANTZ | Mike, DTN 381-1253 | Tue Feb 20 1990 12:11 | 5 |
| Right. Not only does Drano sometimes help, but regardless of whether
it helps or not, it always breaks down very quickly into harmless
sodium ions and water. Ever-increasing quantities would be a real
problem, but the use of Drano is limited and not really increasing,
like the use of plastics and other harmful substances.
|
198.314 | | RAMBLR::MORONEY | How do you get this car out of second gear? | Tue Feb 20 1990 13:36 | 8 |
| One could argue that it is good for the environment because once the stuff is
diluted and out in the environment, it neutralizes acids and makes the acid
rain problem a teensy bit less worse.
I use straight lye myself. That way I know there's nothing but straight
sodium hydroxide.
-Mike
|
198.30 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Feb 20 1990 14:48 | 27 |
| I found a couple of solutions on my own...
I called a plumbing supply shop and they had (and later showed me when I
went in) something called a "Vint elbow". It is simply a short-radius
elbow, and it dropped the height by an inch. That sounded great, since I was
high by an inch. But... They didn't have a "street elbow" version, and the
flange they had required the elbow to be an inch below the floor, so I was
no better off than when I started.
A company called "Plastic Oddities Inc." sells a variety of plumbing
devices intended to solve common problems, and this is one of them. They
have a flush-fitting flange that allows you to cut the pipe (or street elbow)
flush with the floor, rather than having it 1/2 to 1 inch down, the way
a standard flange does. (They also have one that adjusts for an off-center
pipe.) I found these at Builders Square.
The solution I am going with is to cut the elbow flush with the floor and
use the Plastic Oddities flange. I will have to cut it back a bit too, and
thus won't have quite as much "socket" as I would have normally, but it
should work ok. I am also using an Oatey wax ring with a collar that
directs the waste past the join, to further reduce possibilities of leakage.
Using 2 45's is a possibility, but you'd have some offset to the side, which
may or may not be a problem (it would for me). I'd also think you'd want as
little obstruction as possible in this path.
Steve
|
198.315 | | TLE::FELDMAN | Digital Designs with PDF | Tue Feb 20 1990 15:49 | 8 |
| I think the confusion may be because drain cleaners are bad for septic systems.
But that's not at all the same thing as saying they're bad for the
environment.
I have to believe that the typical municipal sewage system is well equipped
to deal with drain cleaners. Check to be sure.
Gary
|
198.316 | THE MOVIES | CSSE::CACCIA | the REAL steve | Wed Feb 21 1990 15:21 | 6 |
|
RE. - .5 Stephen King/Freddie Kruger movie.
Check out "SQUIRM" circa 1974/75. Talk about opening a bait shop in the
bathroom?
|
198.317 | hot water + glass = crack | FREDW::MATTHES | half a bubble off plumb | Sat Feb 24 1990 12:38 | 4 |
| >>>save the environment with boiling water...
If you were able to maintain enough heat to kill the worms, you'd
probably also have one cracked toilet bowl.
|
198.318 | Tank sediment=worm farm | VAXRT::HOLTORF | | Wed Apr 04 1990 20:10 | 7 |
| This happened in Maynard a couple times in the last ten years. Sediment
in a public water tank was the source of the worms. The Town was doing
some fiddling with the tank and switching supplies around and the little
wigglers started to show up in toilets.
I remember reading this in the Beacon, the first issue
after we moved into our house in Maynard. I've been drinking bottled
water ever since.
|
198.31 | what height for the t-flange? | GIAMEM::RIDGE | Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Wed May 23 1990 16:20 | 5 |
| Can someone tell me what the preferred setting of the toilet flange
would be. Is it flush with the finish floor, or can the flange sit on
top of the finish floor?
Steve
|
198.32 | on top.. | NAVIER::TAYLOR | Superglide in Blue | Wed May 23 1990 16:43 | 8 |
| sit the flange on top of the finished floor and screw the flange
thru the floor..
Royce
|
198.33 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed May 23 1990 21:01 | 4 |
| In fact, it really has to be on top of the finish floor, or otherwise the
gasket won't seat properly.
Steve
|
198.34 | thanks | GIAMEM::RIDGE | Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Thu May 24 1990 20:20 | 6 |
| Thanks for the info. I will be installing the toilet ths weekend,
and will glue up the flange so it sits on top of the finished floor.
Less work for me as I thought I was going to have to remove some
of the linoleum and luan.
Steve Ridge
|
198.232 | Bathroom Odor... | NRADM::FERRARI | | Mon Jun 04 1990 16:06 | 23 |
| Time to resurrect this note...
Older house (80+ years), second story bathroom. We had it renovated
last summer (Aug/Sept) and haven't had any problems until recently.
A couple of weeks ago, I detected a faint smell of cat urine, or so I
thought. I was ready to kill the cat, but I checked _all over_ the
bathroom, and found nothing. My wife said the cat hadn't been around
at all for the last day or so. I didn't press it, as the smell went
away by the next day.
About 3 days later the smell is back. Again, it went away, but it
keeps "re-appearing" every 3 days or so. It's not the cat, as the door
to the bath is closed all day long. When the plumbing was done, all
new fixtures were put in, the tub and sink were moved, new pipes were
used. The sub-floor, walls and ceiling are all new. The only thing left
to do is put down a finished floor, and put up the trim and molding.
What could be causing this smell? Again, everything was fine until
about 2 weeks ago.
Thanx.
|
198.233 | | MFGMEM::S_JOHNSON | This Side Up | Mon Jun 04 1990 17:01 | 10 |
| re <<< Note 1988.9 by NRADM::FERRARI >>>
Check the traps and venting on the sink and tub drains. Maybe they weren't
installed properly, allowing sewer gas to enter through the drain pipes.
Don't smoke in there until this problem is fixed.
Also, are there any males in your family who have a bad aim?? :-)
Steve
|
198.234 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Mon Jun 04 1990 17:43 | 5 |
| Do you use the sink(s) and tub/shower in that bathroom on a
regular basis? regular = at least once or twice a week. If not it
it possible that the water in the trap is evaperating and allowing
the odor from the drain pips to vent into the bathroom. Solution:
be sure to run water into every draing at lest once a week.
|
198.273 | Okay now what? | CADSE::SIMONICH | | Tue Jun 05 1990 16:59 | 11 |
|
I had the above problem which was easily fixed by bending the float
rod, but it seems that it has caused a new problem. Now the tank
fills up properly, but there is almost no water getting into the
bowl. What happened??????????????????
|
198.274 | | MFGMEM::S_JOHNSON | geenee wants BUUUUUUUD LIIIIGHT!!!!!!! | Tue Jun 05 1990 17:05 | 8 |
| > fills up properly, but there is almost no water getting into the
> bowl. What happened??????????????????
Theres a little hose that shoots water into the tube in the center if the
tank. This fills up the bowl. Must be you moved the little hose.
|
198.235 | Vent stacks stink. | KEPNUT::FERREIRA | | Wed Jun 06 1990 16:44 | 8 |
| I totally agree with Charlie (.11). We have a new home with one bathtub not
yet in use. If I don't pour a quart of water down the drain about once a week
or so, PEEEEwwwwHHHH. Another possible.... if the vent stack is too close
to an open window and the wind is right you could get "some" odor from that.
Unlikely since you said it was very strong, still worth a look.
Frank
|
198.236 | A Two year old Problem :-) | NRADM::FERRARI | | Wed Jun 06 1990 19:00 | 14 |
| Well, I think I found the problem...or my wife did. The other day,
when she was upstairs cleaning with the little guy (my son, 23 months
old), she walked in the bathroom when he called her. He's standing in
front of the toilet, diapers undone, aiming and peeing. "Daddy do!
Daddy do!" At 2 years old, he can't even come close to the top of the
bowl.
Evidently, it had puddled and soaked into the wood behind the toilet,
where it reeks. Cleaned behind the toilet with Lestoil and ammonia,
sealed the plywood, and everything appears fine so far.
Question tho....How do you discourage a kid when you're trying to
potty-train him?? :-)
|
198.237 | | MEWVAX::AUGUSTINE | Purple power! | Wed Jun 06 1990 19:14 | 4 |
| get him a stool to stand on?
liz
|
198.238 | Sit or wait (or get out the mops!) | BCSE::WEIER | | Wed Jun 06 1990 19:48 | 12 |
| They SAY that for a short guy (which most 2-year olds are!), have him
sit down and point it down, or have him sit 'backwards' (so that he's
facing the wall) - they feel less like they're going to fall in this
way. Personally, we waited until he was tall enough, and he certainly
didn't seem to mind. AND it's taken over a year to perfect his aim all
the time, so get used to sticking your nose behind there and cleaning
up. Yuck! WHATEVER you do, don't talk to him while he's going -- they
tend to turn and look at you ... ask me how I know (-:
Patty
|
198.239 | | GIAMEM::RIDGE | Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Wed Jun 06 1990 21:07 | 2 |
| Sounds like your on the way to potty-training, wether you like it or
not.
|
198.240 | | NRADM::FERRARI | | Thu Jun 07 1990 13:17 | 6 |
| His got his own potty chair downstairs, which he loves to sit on.
(Probably the only place he can get some peace and quiet). Anyway,
when he's upstairs, I guess he's just imitating Daddy. (At least I
hope he's imitating Daddy and not the milkman... :-)
|
198.35 | How to install a flange on cement slab /tile floor | MARVA1::POWELL | just another ADVENTURE-IN-1 player | Mon Jul 02 1990 17:37 | 13 |
| My question is similar to .11 except I am installing a toilet in my
basement on top of a cement slab floor which will be covered with
ceramic tile. It appears that the floor rises about 1/4 inch in all
directions towards the waste drain. I need to grind it down level first,
then glue down the tiles.
The waste drain is the old black plastic pipe. The question is how do
I connect the flange? Glue it inside the existing pipe and glue it to
the ceramic tile too? I see no way to "bolt" it to the floor.
What kind of glue(s) do I need? Thanks.
P.S. I also want to thank the moderators for such a well maintained
notes file. It has been a joy perusing through the replies in here!
|
198.155 | Mineral deposit problem? | SWSEIS::GRAVES | | Tue Jul 10 1990 13:11 | 19 |
| Any suggestions about how to improve the water flow from the tank to the
bowl? Our toilet flushes fine when a pail of water is poured into the
bowl, but apparently not enough water gets into the bowl from the tank fast
enough for normal flushing.
The septic system has been pumped and checked recently, and all drains work.
The water level in the tank refills properly to the full line, and I replaced
the outlet valve at the bottom of the tank which leads to the bowl, and it works
properly.
Since the toilet is about 25 years old, I suspected that mineral deposits
might be partially clogging the outlet holes around the top inside of the
bowl. I tried cleaning them with a pipe cleaner with no avail. I don't know
which (if any) chemicals would be safe to try, so I haven't.
There must be some solution short of having to replace the toilet.
Bruce Graves
|
198.156 | | FSTTOO::BEAN | Attila the Hun was a LIBERAL! | Tue Jul 10 1990 13:40 | 4 |
| what happens if you reach down into the tank and manually open the
valve (as wide as it will go)? does the toilet flush ok then?
tony
|
198.157 | | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Tue Jul 10 1990 14:54 | 6 |
| I had the same problem on the first house I bought; pouring
(I believe) muriatic acid into the overflow tube dissolved
the mineral deposits. Wear gloves and eye protection.
A coat hanger into the small openings under the rim of the
bowl might have a similar effect.
|
198.158 | | HOYDEN::BURKHOLDER | 1 in 10 | Wed Jul 11 1990 13:20 | 3 |
| I had the same problem with slow toilets. I watched the
landlord take a coat hanger and scrape around the holes in
the rim. Toilet flushed great after that!
|
198.159 | | MEMORY::BROWER | | Tue Jul 17 1990 11:58 | 11 |
| I've been having the same problem with a 10 year old toilet.
Two other bathrooms using the same toilet don't have any problems
flushing. What I perceive as the problem is either a buildup of
minerals or a defect in the cast at the bottom jet. When flushing
the toilet rapidly fills to almost the rim but there's too much
cyclonic motion to the water. Sticking my hand in while flushing
seems to reveal too weak a flow from the big hole?? Muriatic acid may
be worth a try as it would probebly not hurt the septic system.
I did remove the toilet to make sure the waste pipe wasn't
partially blocked.
bob
|
198.160 | Yech (but did you snake the toilet trap?) | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Tue Jul 17 1990 14:07 | 1 |
| if we ever meet, don't shake my hand.
|
198.161 | | MEMORY::BROWER | | Wed Jul 18 1990 11:54 | 6 |
| Yep I ran a snake through it to no avail. I have access in the
basement bathroom to the wasteline from that toilet. I may eventually
remove the access panel to see if the pipe jogs one way or the other
possibly slowing down water flow. It's located only about 4' from the
main pipe.
Bob
|
198.162 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Wed Jul 18 1990 13:52 | 1 |
| Mebbe your stack vent is plugged, somehow?
|
198.163 | Same Subject, different problem | BCSE::WEIER | | Thu Jul 19 1990 12:23 | 20 |
| We have a variation of the 'slow toilet' problem -- there seems to be
something actually plugged in the toilet. Not to the point that the
toilet is clogged, but the water doesn't go down as fast as it used to,
and we're also getting some kind of growth on the bowl (which makes me
think that there's something further down the 'road' that's causing
bacteria buildup). I've tried plunging and snaking the toilet, and
nothing happens. I can't hear anything when plunging and can't feel
anything with the snake. Considering the situation, I REALLY DON'T
want to stick my hand in there and feel around for something - what's a
toilet trap? Where might it be?? This is a first floor bathroom, and
all the pipes are well exposed in the basement. It may be worth
mentioning that the tub slows up in about a week, but a good plunging
clears that up for a few days (never get anything out - just push/move
it along). The sink in the bathroom works fine.
We can't rule out the possibility of a toy or something jammed in there
somewhere - a two-year old's fascination with water!
THANKS!
Patty
|
198.164 | Another cause of slow draining. | TALLIS::KOCH | Kevin Koch LTN1-2/H09 DTN226-6274 | Thu Jul 19 1990 13:16 | 11 |
| My toilet used to flush fine, all the time, no matter what.
Then a plumber removed it to do some work in the wall behind the toilet.
After he put it back, the toilet sometimes gets in a mode where it
drains slowly. Plunging or snaking resets the mode to normal draining.
When I snake the drain, sometimes the snake has wax on the end of it.
Conclusions: A poorly aligned wax seal can cause the symptoms. The
plumber did a lousy job reseating the toilet.
|
198.165 | wear gloves | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Thu Jul 19 1990 14:55 | 7 |
| Somebody asked about a toilet trap? Under your sinks are S shaped curves
in the drain pipe. They hold water and trap sewer gas from rising up
the drain. Your toilet has one molded into the bottom. We had a toothbrush
which caused the problem .-2 describes. Toilet very slow but after a week
of disuse or plunging it would clear somewhat. Snaking uncovered nothing.
Only physically removing the toilet and flipping it over and reaching in
(with rubber gloves on thank you) discovered the lodging toothbrush.
|
198.166 | an 8" comb | SALEM::LAYTON | | Thu Jul 19 1990 17:05 | 1 |
| Ditto .20
|
198.167 | Where IS that rubber ducky?? | BCSE::WEIER | | Thu Jul 19 1990 19:11 | 28 |
| Gee -- now that you mention it we did lose a tooth brush AND a comb.
Hmmmm. Okay - now to refresh my memory - shut off the toilet water
valves, drain all water (ie flush, flush) disconnect/remove the tank
from the toilet, unscrew the toilet from the floor, and proceed with
nose-plug and gloves? I assume that I'll need a new wax ring to put it
all back together? One other question - the last time we did this
(because of a toy boat in the trap - who knew it was called the trap?!),
the washer-seals connecting the tank to the toilet became badly
crushed. I know I won't be able to get a good seal out of them again
if removed - anyone know what they're called? Would someplace like
Builder's Square have them? Maybe it's easier to get a latex body suit
and just reach! (-:
Am I missing anything else that I'll need? How important is it to make
sure all of the old wax ring is removed? Is it necessary/recommended
to remove the seat for any reason? (like so I don't hit myself over the
head and drown (-: )
If there's nothing in the toilet, could there be somewhere else that
something might be lodged that would only affect the toilet and the tub
and not the sink?
And most importantly - as long as I have this thing all apart, is there
anything else that might use 'looking into', maintenance or anything
else like that?
Thanks!!
Patty
|
198.168 | you provide the artwork | REGENT::POWERS | | Thu Jul 19 1990 21:49 | 6 |
| One of the scariest/funniest cartoons I ever saw:
"Gee, Dad, do you know it's almost impossible to flush a pair of socks
down a toilet?"
- tom]
|
198.169 | answers, and some thoughts | GOLF::BROUILLET | Undeveloped photographic memory | Fri Jul 20 1990 12:36 | 49 |
| > Hmmmm. Okay - now to refresh my memory - shut off the toilet water
> valves, drain all water (ie flush, flush) disconnect/remove the tank
> from the toilet, unscrew the toilet from the floor,
You can probably leave the tank attached, as long as you handle it
carefully. As you noted later on, it might be tough to get a good
between the tank and bowl afterwards (but I'm sure you could find a
replacement gasket at just about any well-stocked hardware store, e.g.,
True Value, or Somerville Lumber, etc.)
> I assume that I'll need a new wax ring to put it all back together?
> How important is it to make sure all of the old wax ring is removed?
Yes, you need a new one, but they're very cheap. Just scrape off as
much of the old one as you easily can - whatever is left will just
squash into the new blob of wax.
> Is it necessary/recommended to remove the seat for any reason?
> (like so I don't hit myself over the head and drown (-: )
Good reason! If it gets in your way, remove it. Otherwise, leave it.
> If there's nothing in the toilet, could there be somewhere else that
> something might be lodged that would only affect the toilet and the tub
That's what I was afraid of when you said the tub drained slowly too.
Your 2-year-old might have been doing some research on the dynamics of
water flow in residential waste plumbing systems, and flushed a plush
cartoon character to some point where it got lodged in a pipe. Do you
have any cleanout plugs that can be removed so you can get a snake in
some of the lines? You might want to try that first, before removing
the toilet. (Wait a while after flushing or draining the tub to give
the lines time to drain before doing this, or you could be in for a
surpise).
The lack of problems with the sink may not have anything to do with
this, since the volume of water you'd drain from a sink is much
smaller, and drains more slowly than the tub or toilet.
Good luck! If you find anything interesting, let us know!
/Don
> and not the sink? > > And most importantly - as long as I
have this thing all apart, is there > anything else that might use
'looking into', maintenance or anything > else like that? > >
Thanks!! > Patty
|
198.170 | Hair, maybe? | MAMIE::FRASER | Hypnotist: 10 cents a trance. | Fri Jul 20 1990 13:23 | 11 |
| Our upstairs bath developed the same slow emptying symptoms
you described, whereby plunging every couple of weeks would
normalise the rate of flow.
To cut a loooong story short, the answer was a simple ~2.50
device made of plastic, which forms a pre-screen for the outlet
by trapping hair before it gets into the waste pipe. The thing
is a disk of about six inches diameter, with a raised section
full of fine holes.
No further problems.
|
198.171 | | DICKNS::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Fri Jul 20 1990 13:34 | 11 |
| Ditto on not taking the tank off the bowl, unless you want to take
it apart because of the weight. Tank+bowl is fairly heavy, but
generally manageable. Gaskets should be available at a plumbing
supply place, but be careful; there seem to be about 10,000,000
varieties of toilets, each one with its own set of gaskets. Silicone
sealer may be a viable alternative...but I've never tried it.
You've got the general procedure straight. New wax ring, scraping
off as much of the old as you can. I don't think it's quite as
disgusting a job as you make it out to be...not that I'd want to
have to do it on a regular basis, either.
|
198.172 | You'll have to use the Shell station, dear! | BCSE::WEIER | | Fri Jul 20 1990 15:44 | 19 |
| Thanks for the responses!! There is a few places in the basement where
the end of the pipes (pvc) appear as thought they would unscrew, so I
could take a look in there.
We do have a 'hair screen' in the tub drain, but even still, SOME hair
makes it through.
If I do it, I probably will separate the tank and bowl because of the
weight/awkwardness. If I can get my husband to believe there really is
a problem, maybe we won't need to.
To make sure I get the right gaskets - would they recognize what they
SHOULD look like if I were to bring in the crushed ones? Am I better
off trying to figure out what type of toilet it is or getting
measurements or something else?
Thanks for all the help!!
Patty
|
198.173 | | HKFINN::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome (Maynard) | Fri Jul 20 1990 16:21 | 11 |
| I find that bringing in the old part (gaskets, in this case) is
generally the best thing to do. The part, and the brand name
of the toilet, should be enough. Those gaskets may not be as
prolific in variety as the stuff for the flush mechanism; I
think every employeee of every plumbing fixture manufacturer
in the world must have invented what they fondly believed at
the time to be the perfect fush mechanism, and convinced the
manufacturer to use their new design for one year.
You'll also find great variations from one part of the country
to another. It's incredible.
|
198.174 | draining a toilet | KAYAK::GROSSO | | Fri Jul 20 1990 16:35 | 6 |
|
When pulling a toilet, after shutting off the water and flushing, then plunge
it a few times. That really pushes the water through the trap before removal
and saved alot of spilled water.
-B
|
198.175 | Drain line restrictions | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Mon Jul 23 1990 17:24 | 10 |
| You could also have a restriction in the main drain line leading
to the street (anywhere from the street sewer main up to the
point where the tub & toilet connect to the soil stack).
If the problem has gradually developed it might be worth a
Saturday morning rental of a snake to clean out any built-up
grease/gunk/crud in the main lines.
We had a kitchen sink which exhibited this type of problem;
built-up grease had narrowed the 2-inch pipe to about 1/2-inch.
A call to Roto-rooter and about $35 solved the problem.
|
198.176 | Mis-aligned sewer pipes | SSDEVO::JACKSON | James P. Jackson | Mon Jul 23 1990 18:59 | 10 |
| I had the same sort of problem as .30: the kitchen sink was slow, and one
toilet occasionally backed up. When I found a foot deep of water over the
floor drain in my crawl space, I called in roto-rooter.
They found a spot about 30' downline from the house where apparently a pipe
joint had settled, resulting in a mis-alignment (I have cast-iron sewer
pipes). The mis-alignment caught all sorts of wonderful things (starting
with toilet paper), resulting in a much slower flow rate. It's cleaned out
for now, but was told that I can expect to do some digging within the next
few years.
|
198.177 | Snake the pipes in the basement?? | BCSE::WEIER | | Tue Jul 24 1990 17:43 | 14 |
| re .30 Only $35.00, huh? What did they do? We have a snake - or are
there different types that I would need to rent something special? I
don't understand (or maybe I'm not using it right) how I would get
grease out with a snake ?
Didn't get a chance to tackle the toilet this weekend. My suspicions
still rest there as the problem is intermittent (from flush to flush),
so if something is just a bit caught up in there, it could be moving
around a little to let it flow fine, but then other times move to
become more obstructive.
I'll let you know what I find!
Patty
|
198.178 | | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Tue Jul 24 1990 18:02 | 7 |
| The snake they used was mounted on a large reel, and has some sort
of "blade" affair on the end. The "blade" basically scraped the
crud from the inside of the pipe (said crud was subsequently
flushed from the pipe by running copious amounts of water through
the kitchen).
Maybe snake is the wrong term for this device.
|
198.179 | | BPOV02::RIDGE | Trouble w/you is the trouble w/me | Tue Jul 24 1990 18:28 | 1 |
| No, you've got the right name. It's called a snake.
|
198.180 | Garden Hose Pressure Cleaner Attachment | ODIXIE::RAMSEY | Take this job and Love it! | Tue Jul 24 1990 18:40 | 29 |
| I bought a device last time our kitchen sink backed up. Checked the
cleanout and the pipe needed a good cleaning. First I used a standard
snake and ran about 22 feet of snake in to the pipe. Then I used this
new device. I don't recall the name but it is basically a bladder you
attach to the end of a garden hose.
You screw the device to the end of your garden hose. Insert the garden
hose with device on end into pipe until it hits the obstruction.
Slowly turn on water to hose. The devise fills with water and forms
its own obstruction in the pipe. Once it is fully inflated, its starts
to convert the water into a pulsing stream at high pressure. The
pulsing high pressure stream cuts a hole thru the blockage and then
pushes the broken up blockage down the pipe. If I recall, you can hear
the noise of the pulse. Once the noise changes tone and becomes
regular, the blockage has cleared.
Once I had the blockage cleared, I withdrew the hose to just inside the
cleanout, and started the water. This served to clean all the gunk off
the sides of the pipe and "scrub" the pipe walls. Once the noise
became regular, moved it down the pipe a foot or so and started the
water again. I did this until I hit a major connection where the 2
inch connected to the 4 inch pipe, about 20-25 feet. Really cleaned
out the pipe.
Since we don't have a garbage disposal, washing dishes tends to get
small food particles down the sink and left in the pipes where the
volume and pressure of water is less. Hopefully this extra cleaning
will make the time between the need for cleanouts longer.
|
198.181 | Another cheap method of pressure clearing sink | OAW::MILLER_PA | As in Time...Miller Time | Fri Jul 27 1990 15:50 | 9 |
| Last week, my double sink in the kitchen clogged. What I did to clean
it out was to wrap an old towel around the garden hose, and plugged the
other side of the double sink with another rag. Put the end of the
hose (about 6 inches extended beyond the towel wrap) down the one side
of the sink. Turn water on. Watch sink drain. This is the poor man's
way of using the bladder devise described in one of the previous
replys.
patrick
|
198.319 | I'd rather be fishing | SONATA::FERNANDES | | Fri Jul 27 1990 19:06 | 1 |
| Ahhh..don't worry about it until the fish show up.
|
198.182 | Still working on .10 | SWSEIS::GRAVES | | Tue Jul 31 1990 19:21 | 14 |
| Thanks for the suggestions concerning .10. I found that an allen wrench was
a good tool to clean the holes above the bowl. The tank drain to the bowl works
fine. I used a closet auger in the toilet, and went up on the roof and snaked
the vent pipe. Still no luck. I tried a plunger, and the toilet flushed OK
one time, then it reverted to its non-flushing state.
I'm now wondering if there could be a blockage like a comb or something that
the snakes went right past. Can I determine that without taking the whole
toilet out? Sometimes with plumbing projects, something breaks or leaks and
makes matters worse. Is there an inspection tool of some sort?
Thanks again for all your help.
Bruce
|
198.73 | Hot and cold toilet | ISLNDS::KELLY | | Tue Jul 31 1990 21:04 | 32 |
| I've run across a pipe configuration in my newly acquired 1953 vintage
Cape: the toilet is supplied by both hot and cold water. It was
(and is) an experience to have warm water running in the toilet.
The lines look like (pardon my ASCII-ness):
-------------+-----------------hot water supply---
|
+------[+] 'strange valve'
|
+---------to toilet supply line---->
|
+------[+] 'strange valve'
|
-------------+----------------cold water supply-----
The 'strange valves' (I'm assuming they're valves) have knurled
caps. I tried, with moderate force, to turn the hot water knurled
cap, but could not move it. I figured I'd check here before
proceeding.
A few questions:
1. What's the purpose of this setup? I thought perhaps it would
prevent the shower temp from rising dramatically when the cold
water supply was partially diverted to flushing the toilet.
2. Are the 'strange valves' indeed valves? If so, it seems reasonable
to close of the hot water supply to the toilet...agree?
Thanks,
John K.
view looking up at the basement ceiling
|
198.74 | As described in previous notes | HPSTEK::RITCHIE | Elaine Kokernak Ritchie | Tue Jul 31 1990 21:25 | 9 |
| Do you have well water? If you do, then the water is very cold. A
toilet full of very cold water will "sweat" when the room is warm and
humid (in the summer, and during showers). If the water is very cold,
the water will drip and eventually ruin the floor and subfloor.
Warm water is added to the toilet to keep the sweat down. You probably
don't want to shut this off.
Elaine
|
198.75 | Re -.1 | ISLNDS::KELLY | | Wed Aug 01 1990 10:58 | 12 |
| I have water from the town distribution network...it's not abnormally
cold. Besides, the water in the toilet is warm, not just cold
with the edge taken off. I can deal with any sweating problem
by insulating the toilet or drying the air in the house. I have an
exhaust fan in the bathroom, also. Finally, it seems ludricous to
me to spend oil heating water which I then flush.
Regards,
John
|
198.76 | Replace those with the RIGHT valve | CHART::CBUSKY | | Wed Aug 01 1990 12:59 | 26 |
| > by insulating the toilet or drying the air in the house. I have an
I tried this too (insulating the toilet) and it just doesn't cut it. I
too have town water but my toilet would sweat on even moderately humid
days in the summer. This year we decided to "solve" the problem once
and for all ( I was sick of looking at wet towels around the toilet to
catch the condensation).
I installed a valve similar to that you described and IT WORKS. Your's
sounds like a "home made" attempt at a mixing valve, I bought a mixing
valve made for this purpose that's a ONE PIECE UNIT with hot and cold
inlets and one mixed outlet. There is ONE small adjusting screw that
lets you control the amount of hot water that is mixed with the cold.
You only need A LITTLE HOT WATER to mix with the cold, the valve also
lets you shut off the hot water when the condensation conditions
sub-side.
It sounds like your valves let in TOO MUCH hot water. You should NOT
even notice that the water in the toilet is warm. I don't think that
the previous owners went to the trouble of installed those valves for
the heck of it, there probably was a problem with condensation at one
time. I would suggest that you replace those valves with the one piece
mixing valve designed for the job. I got mine at Spag's for about $20.
A bit expensive but it REALLY WORKS!.
Charly
|
198.77 | re -.1 | ISLNDS::KELLY | | Wed Aug 01 1990 15:29 | 4 |
| Thanks, I'll check one out at Spags'.
Regards,
John K.
|
198.78 | Another thing to check | SNDCSL::HAUSRATH | Too many projects, not enough time | Tue Aug 21 1990 18:28 | 12 |
|
A little late, but I solved the same problem earlier this year.
Turned out that the plunger do-hing-ey thing (sorry, don't know the
technical name) which allows the water to flow from the tank into the
bowl during flushing was not properly seating. As a result I had a
constant (albiet SLOW) flow of water going through the tank. The flow
of water was enough to keep the water in the tank cool enough to form
condensation. Once I corrected the leakey plunger my problem cleared
up. Might want to check for this problem too, since water, let alone
warm water, is expensive these days.
/Jeff
|
198.326 | Toothbrush Stuck in Toilet | HPSTEK::SKIEST | Do walk to work or carry a lunch | Thu Sep 20 1990 10:50 | 14 |
|
I could use some help with this one.
My 4yr. old son put a toothbrush in the toilet
and flush it. I bet you know what happen for there..
The toothbrush got caught how do I get this thing out?
I tried a coat hanger bending into a small hook at the
end to try to grab it ,but it did not work...
There is a elbow in the basement but there is no clean
out.
Thanks in advance
steve
|
198.327 | DRAIN SNAKE | ISLNDS::CARLBERG | | Thu Sep 20 1990 11:29 | 2 |
| Try a drain snake, the kind that has a crank on it to spin the snake
itself when down in the drain. Some of the rental places have them.
|
198.328 | Might still be in toilet | OPUS::CLEMENCE | | Thu Sep 20 1990 12:22 | 5 |
| RE:. 0
Have you taken the toilet off its stand yet. Most of those items
are usually just stuck in the toilet itself. If it has gotten past the toilet,
the snake route as .1 describes sounds correct to do.
|
198.329 | Lift | WEFXEM::COTE | To play, turn bottom up... | Thu Sep 20 1990 12:24 | 10 |
| Do you have a clue as to *where* the toothbrush is caught?
It may be stuck in the toilet itself. Lifting a toilet is a 10 minute
job (buy a new wax ring or 2 *before* you do it!). If it's in there,
you should be able to get it out fairly easily.
If it's not in the toilet, you're now in a much easier position to
snake the soil pipe...
Edd
|
198.330 | | HPSTEK::SKIEST | Do walk to work or carry a lunch | Thu Sep 20 1990 12:50 | 9 |
|
RE:Last couple..
I tried the snake root..
Not exactly sure where it's stuck.
I will take the toilet off and check it out..
steve
|
198.183 | Mystery Solved! | SWSEIS::GRAVES | | Fri Sep 28 1990 10:50 | 10 |
| After much frustration from .10 and .37, the mystery is solved.
The toilet is 25 years old. At the very bottom front of the bowl, a hole was
plugged with mineral deposits. The purpose of this hole is to provide a
strong jet of water into the exhaust hole at the bottom rear of the bowl and
to help the flush really get going. Without that jet of water, the weight of
the water coming in at the top of the bowl just wasn't enough to achieve
enough exhaust momentum to empty the bowl completely.
Bruce Graves
|
198.89 | Check the large hex nut | CSS::NNGUYEN | | Mon Oct 08 1990 19:58 | 20 |
| This reply is too late!
There are 4 possible places that a toilet tank can leak after
re/installation. They are at the water connection, the two anchor
bolts, and at the flapper. The first three are usually easy to trace
and correct while the fourth one (at the flapper) is much harder. It is
also a pain to lift the tank out to check and retighten the large hex
nut holding the flapper/overflow assembly. I had a hard time to correct
my water leak problem after replacing this assembly. The problem turned
out that I installed the nut WITH ITS FLAT SIDE AGAINST THE TANK!
(This nut has one fat side and one hollow side!)
Even though I tightened everything I still had a leak because the
sponge washer sunk into the hex nut thus the sponge did not provide
enough sealing via compression. The effect was like using a thinner
sponge gasket. I only discovered my mistake after 3 times of taking the
tank out, putting it back in, and testing it routines.
I hope this reply help.
Neil
|
198.320 | mouse in the toliet bowl!!!!yuck!! | TOXMAN::WIRTANENG | | Sun Nov 04 1990 03:06 | 6 |
| I found a mouse swimming in my toliet bowl. I heard a sound coming
from the bathroom, like splashing water. I looked in the toliet
bowl and sure enough a mouse was swimming. I flushed the toliet
about 10 times and now I insist that the toliet cover stay closed
at all times. It's been about 5 years since that incident and never
saw one again.
|
198.321 | | NETMAN::SEGER | this space intentionally left blank | Mon Nov 05 1990 14:38 | 8 |
| > I found a mouse swimming in my toliet bowl.
Was he doing the backstroke? sorry, but I couldn't resist.
recently I've found several DEAD mice in the bucket of my dehumidifier! I guess
that couldn't swim as well as your mouse...
-mark
|
198.322 | A better mousetrap | STAR::DIPIRRO | | Tue Nov 06 1990 11:55 | 5 |
| That's pretty funny! Just last week I also found a dead mouse in the
bucket of my dehumidifier! I hadn't been checking it as often this time
of year. I guess the poor little mousie got thirsty and fell in. This
seems to work better than the mouse traps I set out. I think I'll keep
the dehumidifier bucket half-full this winter...
|
198.323 | | VMSDEV::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Nov 06 1990 12:56 | 6 |
| >I think I'll keep the dehumidifier bucket half-full this winter...
You'd better check it frequently. I imagine that rotting-mouse stew will have
quite an odorific effect on your basement.
Paul
|
198.324 | Mousetrap, extra large | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Nov 07 1990 14:10 | 2 |
| I've had good luck catching mice in bathtubs. They can't get enough momentum
to climb out.
|
198.325 | Mice are nice --> outside. | XK120::SHURSKY | Jaguar enthusiast. | Thu Nov 08 1990 15:44 | 11 |
| This it the time of year the little fuzzy friends come in from the fields and
woods to get warm. I caught one in my empty plastic 30 gal trash can! The
little bugger must have done a swan dive from the ledge along the wall in the
garage.
If you *like* mice in your toilet, sink, tub or dehumidifier, use DCON poison.
It makes the little fuzzy guys thirsty and they (supposedly) run outside for
a drink and die. BUT why go out in the cold when there is a dripping faucet
in the nice warm house?
Stan
|
198.284 | | MEMORY::BROWER | | Thu Jan 10 1991 17:36 | 8 |
| I had to replace a toilet yesterday that had the tank let go.
Unknown to me the previous owner of my house had repaired a crack
at the bottom of the tank, then covered it with styrofoam insulation.
I'm very thankful that my wife was home when the flood started as it
split bottom to top. I replaced it with a 2.5-3 gallon (estimate spec
weren't specific for the model I got) Artesian.
Bob
|
198.285 | | R2ME2::BENNISON | Victor L. Bennison DTN 381-2156 ZK2-3/R56 | Thu Jan 10 1991 20:21 | 11 |
| While we're on the subject of toilets. My new 3 gallon job tends to
clog easier then the one it replaced. The first time it happened I
tried my closet auger, and it broke. So I called the plumber. The
next time it happened I bought a new cheapo auger from the hardware
store and proceeded to break it as well. I was determined not to
call the plumber again, so I went to a plumbing supply place and for
$25 bought and INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH PROFESSIONAL closet auger. It
went through the clog like it wasn't there. Sure a lot cheaper than
calling the plumber. Not only that, but when I hung it up to dry
it didn't rust.
- Vick
|
198.331 | Toilet Bowl Water Level Low | MISFIT::KINNEYD | ABNORMAL - Do not use this Brain | Fri Jan 18 1991 11:57 | 12 |
| I noticed the other day that the water level in the downstairs
(first floor above ground) toilet bowl is lower than usual. Normally the
bowl is about, I don't know, maybe 1/3 full with water. Now there is only
about an inch of water.
We have a septic system and it has been very wet lately (snow melting
and raining). Could this have anything to do with it?? The mechanics
seem to be in fine working order. What controls this water level?
I've been in the house three years. Do I have a problem here?
Dave Kinney
|
198.332 | How full is your Bowl? | ODIXIE::RAMSEY | Take this job and Love it! | Fri Jan 18 1991 12:22 | 12 |
| Does the bowl fill to the "normal" height when a flush is complete? or
does it only fill to the lower level? The water level in the bowl is
based on how much water the tank holds. The tank fills to a level set
by the float in the tank. When the float rises to a certain point, it
forces the water to shutoff and stop filling the tank. The water in
the tank is what determines the water level in the bowl.
If the bowl fills to the "normal" height and then later drops to a lower
level, you have either a leak in the bowl and water is leaking to
somewhere or the drain has a suction or siphon effect and is drawing
the water out of the bowl. Either of these is bad and needs to be
looked into.
|
198.333 | | HAMRAD::DONADT | | Fri Jan 18 1991 14:56 | 15 |
| I have the same problem. This is probably a function of your leach
field being saturated and the water draining out of your toilet
too slowly.
You will probably notice that after the snow all melts or we get
a good hard freeze, your toilet will work ok again.
Don't know what to do about it other than having your leach field
replaced. I'm just putting up with the inconvience for a while until
the problem gets worse.
This problem could also be caused by a partially clogged toilet.
Try plunging it and see if it helps.
Ray
|
198.334 | Wind... | DCSVAX::COTE | Edd, 18.5 - Mousies, 15 | Fri Jan 18 1991 15:22 | 11 |
| A normal toilet might hold 5-7 gallons of water between the tank and
the bowl. The tank is emptied long before the water ever hits the
septic tank, so I tend to discount .2's theory...
I've noticed that on windy days, like we've had here lately, the
change in pressure as the wind blows across the vent stack will
cause the water in my toilet to lightly slosh around. This causes
some water to escape down the DWV pipe, and naturally the level in
the bowl goes down....
Edd
|
198.335 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | Originality = Undetected Plagiarism | Fri Jan 18 1991 15:25 | 5 |
| If it flushes and immediately after the flush the level is low,
then this probably indicates a blocked vent stack above the toilet ?
In early winter it is not unusual for birds and animals to build
nests invent stacks. Time to go on the roof with a flashlight
maybe ?
|
198.336 | Look in the tank. | XK120::SHURSKY | Jaguar enthusiast. | Fri Jan 18 1991 18:13 | 15 |
| My water had a lot of silt due to pipe replacement. I added one of those blue
things to color the water so it wouldn't look like someone had used the toilet
and forgot to flush. The blue stuff combined with the silt in the tank making
blue-brown floaters worsening the situation.
To get to the point, I scrubbed out the tank and when I got done the bowl water
level was much lower. I suspect I bumped something and knocked it out of ad-
justment. I haven't gotten back in there to try to correct it. What happens
is the flap that drops down after the flush drops down too soon shutting of the
incoming water to the bowl. The suction action then sucks the bowl dry and it
doesn't refill. Look in the tank for the flapper that drops down. Sometimes
there is a clap or something that slides down out of position and causes the
flapper to drop back too soon.
Stan
|
198.337 | feedpipe dislodged ? | LEVERS::BROWN | | Fri Jan 18 1991 20:10 | 18 |
| ALSO...look in the tank, (if it's like mine) you have a pipe standing
vertically at about the centre of the tank, with an open top above
the water level of a full tank.
There should be a thin pipe which leads from the inlet valve to the
top of this pipe, which allows water to flow into the bowl after
the flapper has closed, but the tank is filling. The supply is
cutoff when the tank is full.
This thin pipe was held in place by a not very good clip arrangement,
which had slipped off so that the thin pipe had fallen off, hence
no water will feed into the bowl once the flapper shuts.
Take a look, and let us know what you see.
cheers,
Barry
|
198.338 | A little wiser, and a little wetter! | MISFIT::KINNEYD | ABNORMAL - Do not use this Brain | Mon Jan 21 1991 11:55 | 11 |
| .6 was the situation. I had flushed and reflushed checking levels and
had also made a visual inspection of the mechanics in the tank. I never
noticed that the little tube mentioned had come unclipped, until I
flushed with the tank cover off.
The second I saw a stream of water shoot accross the bathroom, I knew I
had found the problem!!
Thanks to all who responded.
Dave Kinney
|
198.184 | Tank filling too slowly | KODAK::PRATT | | Mon Jan 21 1991 16:05 | 21 |
| I recently replaced the following parts in my toilet with new Fluidmaster (tm)
parts:
- water supply line to tank
- main on-off valve inside tank
- flapper valve inside tank
The problem is that now the tank is filling VERY slowly. It appears that
too much water is going into the bowl (instead of the tank), because I can see
and hear it dripping noisily down the side of the bowl as the tank s-l-o-w-l-y
fills up.
The water supply line is full on. It seemed to supply plenty of water when
I took the main toilet tank valve off and held a cup over the tank inlet (to
clear the line per Fluidmaster instructions).
And I think the flapper valve is sealing O.K., because all is well when the
tank finally fills up.
Any suggestions, fellow toilet-hackers?
|
198.185 | should be adjustable | GOLF::BROUILLET | I (heart) my Ford Explorer | Wed Jan 23 1991 13:06 | 8 |
| There is an adjustment that controls the rate of fill in the tank.
It's usually just a screw adjustment near the top of the fill valve
assembly. If you're talking about one of those new Fluidmaster valves
that doesn't have a separate float ball, they're still adjustable, but
the method is less obvious. I just got a new toilet with this type of
valve, and have the instructions at home. I'll check tonight.
/Don
|
198.140 | | MRCSSE::SWETT | | Fri Mar 08 1991 11:10 | 8 |
|
I have a toilet obstruction that I don't know how to approach.
A plastic tube of something fell in and disappeared. I can't reach it.
Is there something I can use to dissolve it or break it up? Is my only
option to remove the toilet and try to find it? It backs up frequently.
tom
|
198.141 | | FSDB46::FEINSMITH | | Fri Mar 08 1991 12:09 | 6 |
| If you can't hook it from the top, your only option may be to remove
the bowl. It's not really a bad job though. After draining the water
out of the tank and bowl, jsut disconnect the water feed from the tank
and the two hold down bolts on the bottom of the bowl and off it comes.
Eric
|
198.142 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Mar 08 1991 12:27 | 5 |
| Buy a new wax gasket before removing the bowl - you'll need it when
reinstalling the bowl. Expect there to be some water remaining in the
trap.
Steve
|
198.143 | | MRCSSE::SWETT | | Sat Mar 09 1991 12:05 | 6 |
| thanks, that wasn't a very tough or long job. I had to cut the bolts
though. I found the tube sitting at the bottom. If it had turned just a
little it would have made it into the waste pipe.
tom
|
198.144 | Better to pull a commode than auger the pipe | KAYAK::GROSSO | Prevent & Prepare or Repent & Repair | Wed Mar 20 1991 16:37 | 3 |
|
Be glad it didn't. I use a plunger to help get as much water out as I can and
a sponge for the rest.
|
198.14 | Looking for Made in USA on the flapper | HELIX::SONTAKKE | | Sat Jun 01 1991 00:26 | 11 |
| Where can I buy OEM flapper valves for American Standard toilet? The
one I bought at a hardware store did not fit well. So I bought another
one made by Step X Step. This time it is better made but still it
leaks slightly. I still have the original one with a part number
stamped on it. Unless I can find a good quality after market flapper
valve, I will have to get hold of the American Standard company itself.
- Vikas
P.S. I am going to try the vaseline trick but I thought vaseline and
rubber don't mix (now, WHERE did I hear that?? :-)
|
198.15 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Jun 03 1991 14:39 | 6 |
| Buy the "Flusher Fixer" by Fluidmaster. This has the stainless steel seat
which attaches with a putty to the original seat, and has its own attached
flapper. I've installed several of these on various toilets, and they've never
given me trouble since.
Steve
|
198.16 | | HELIX::SONTAKKE | | Tue Jun 04 1991 12:20 | 17 |
| Can you tell me where I can buy that?
Before investing in it, how do I determine with 100% confidence that it
is really my problem? I don't think the rubber seal is leaking but I
can't think of any easy way of making sure of it. The tank is
installed on the top of the bowl and the incoming water line is all
copper. That means I really would rather not remove the tank. If the
seal is leaking, does the water still end up in the bowl or I would be
able to feel the moisture outside?
Or I could turn off the water, remove the flap and then check if after
overnight to see if the water level is at the seat or below it.
However if the seal leaks only when the tank is full, then I still
won't know.
Thanks,
- Vikas
|
198.17 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Jun 04 1991 13:20 | 16 |
| You can buy the "Flusher Fixer" at just about any hardware store which
sells toilet repair parts. Fluidmaster is the most popular brand of
these things. They come on a blister-pack on a green card, I think. Just
check first that you don't have one of the "unusual" valve styles noted on
the back of the package for which the unit is not usable (mainly tilt-valves).
If the flapper valve is leaking, the water ends up in the bowl, and you'll
find that your toilet starts to refill from time to time. Fluidmaster
offers dye tablets that are available for free in some stores (Hammar in
Nashua had them) which you drop into your tank, wait 10 minutes, and see
if the dye shows up in the bowl. You might be able to use a few drops of
food coloring for the same purpose. If the gasket between the tank and
the bowl is leaking, you'll find seepage on the outside of the bowl, but
this is uncommon.
Steve
|
198.18 | Can I still use it? | HELIX::SONTAKKE | | Fri Jun 14 1991 13:17 | 5 |
| I saw the Flusher Fixer at NHD. Unfortunately, I DO have the
tilt-valve i.e. the flapper does not rest horizontally but rather
sloping little bit downward.
- Vikas
|
198.19 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Jun 14 1991 13:39 | 10 |
| No, you don't have a tilt valve. A tilt valve is one where the entire
valve mechanism is hinged and swings to the side when you flush the
toilet. It doesn't have a separate flapper.
The situation where the flapper seat is sloped is normal. The Flusher-Fixer
works fine. Just follow the instructions carefully on positioning the
unit so that the hinge is in the proper location. I've generally found that
a 10-o-clock position works well.
Steve
|
198.20 | Thank you Steve!!! | HELIX::SONTAKKE | | Tue Jun 18 1991 17:06 | 4 |
| I finally found a flapper seal made by Fluidmaster at Hammar Hardware.
It is very well made and it finally stopped the leakage.
- Vikas
|
198.544 | Toilets - rim flush vs. siphon flush | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Jul 15 1991 14:18 | 19 |
| I'm in the market for a new toilet, and have been looking at some of the
one-piece models. One thing which puzzles me (other than the absurd prices
charged for one-piece toilets) is the benefits of a siphon flush mechanism
versus a rim flush. I have not yet been able to get a satisfactory answer
from plumbing supply stores.
Most two-piece toilets are rim flush, where the water enters from a series
of holes around the underside of the rim. In siphon flush toilets, water
enters via a second opening down in the bowl, to the side of the trap
opening. I think that in siphon flush toilets, the water supply pressure
is used to assist the flushing mechanism, as the "head" of the water in the
tank is rather low, but otherwise I don't understand the mechanism, or
what the benefits are, if any. I have seen some rim-flush one-piece
models, though, typically at lower prices.
Could someone who understands the two give a short tutorial, and suggest
why one might be better than the other?
Steve
|
198.545 | one observation | TOOK::ROSENBAUM | Rich Rosenbaum | Tue Jul 16 1991 00:40 | 4 |
| The siphon flush toilets seem to be much quieter..
Rich
|
198.546 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Jul 18 1991 16:09 | 4 |
| No other comments? Does one method flush better than the other? Are
the flush valves used any different?
Steve
|
198.547 | go for the siphon flush for a cleaner bowl | SNAX::HURWITZ | | Fri Jul 19 1991 03:34 | 16 |
| Well I can throw in this comment.
When the 26 year old toilet in my house decided to start leaking I went
out and bought a $55 Moores Hardware special. It was half the cost of
a water conserving 1.5 gal. one, but now I regret my $$ decision.
The old 3.5 gallon 26 year old siphon flush could flush clean with the
tank adjusted down to about 1.5 gallons. The new cheapo rim flush needs all
3.5 gallons to get the bowl clean. Believe me I tried to go even a
couple inches lower in the tank, but it just doesn't clean all the
$sh!t out.
If I could do it again I would get both a 1.5 gallon water conserver and
a siphon flush model.
another Steve............................
|
198.548 | | SNAX::HURWITZ | | Fri Jul 19 1991 03:37 | 11 |
| RE: - 1
(my own reply)
>>If I could do it again I would get both a 1.5 gallon water conserver and
>>a siphon flush model.
I of course meant both qualities in the same toilet, and not 2
separate toilets :-}
Steve
|
198.549 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Jul 19 1991 13:14 | 11 |
| A bit more investigation shows that a siphon flush is not necessarily
quieter. What it does is dump most of the water through an additional
opening in the bowl, causing a quicker flush. There are not very many
1.5 gallon siphon flush toilets on the market, and those that exist are
very expensive. Some use a sealed tank that charge up under pressure
and then force the water out quickly, though the only one-piece models
I've seen in that design are VERY expensive (for example, the Kohler
Rialto is $360 in a 3.5 gallon model, but $550 for 1.5 gallon. How many
flushes does it take to use up $190 of water?)
Steve
|
198.550 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Jul 19 1991 13:18 | 6 |
| > (for example, the Kohler
>Rialto is $360 in a 3.5 gallon model, but $550 for 1.5 gallon. How many
>flushes does it take to use up $190 of water?)
For residents of Massachusetts, the point is moot, since it's against code
to install 3.5 gallon toilets.
|
198.551 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Jul 19 1991 14:02 | 5 |
| Re: .6
Not true if it's a one-piece.
Steve
|
198.552 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Jul 19 1991 17:38 | 4 |
| re .7:
Huh? Isn't the intent to reduce water usage? Does a one-piece 3.5 gallon
toilet use less water than a two-piece 3.5 gallon one?
|
198.553 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Jul 19 1991 18:36 | 9 |
| Re: .8
No, they both use 3.5 gallons, but that's the way the regulation is written.
Until recently, I don't think 1.5 GPF one-piece toilets existed. Even
now they are very rare. I suppose Mass. didn't worry about them as much
as they are not as popular as two-piece units, being considerably more
expensive.
Steve
|
198.521 | toilets backup | FREEBE::RUFO | | Thu Oct 03 1991 19:06 | 45 |
| Very intermittently, at any time, my toilets and one tub
backup with, what appears to be washing machine foam.
I am on the bottom floor of a four story condominium building
which houses 40 units. We have been experiencing this problem
for 2+ years now. It used to be just air that bubbled up out of
the toilets but progressively worsened. At worse the two toilets
will back up and dump onto the floor several gallons of foam.
We started with degreaser that was supposed to clear the main
pipe. We had our pipe snaked several times. We had a contractor
use a special camera inserted into the pipes (saw nothing abnormal).
We had our floor jackhammered (were on a cement slab) and the section
of pipe in question was replaced/repitched.
The town inspector is at a loss, at several plumbing contractors
and a sewer and drain contractor are bewildered. I am going nuts.
What can we be missing?
| | this is 4" metal pipe
| | from the upper floors
| |
| | tub toilet
\ \_________||_______||__________ its these three that backup
\ _____________________ ______ \ ** no unit before us or after
|| \ | us has any problem. It has to
toilet | | be a problem somewhere around
| | this area.**
| |
_| |
tub _ |
(this tub does) | |
(not backup) | |
to other units and out of the building
The thought is that any washing machine/dishwasher that is over soaped
will cause a large volume of soap suds to be forced down and for whatever
reason backs up into our toilets & tub.
|
198.522 | Vent problem? | RGB::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Fri Oct 04 1991 06:21 | 23 |
| Could this effect be caused by a blocked or missing vent? As I understand
it, water flows in a drain pipe along the sides of the pipe, which creates
a strong downdraft on the air (or foam) in the middle of the pipe. That
could be the force that is driving the foam up out of your fixtures.
Whether or not a vent is blocked, perhaps backflow valves or additional
venting would help. The foam has got to go somewhere; if the path to
the sewer is somehow too constricted, perhaps an alternate path can be
generated that is easier for the foam to flow through than your fixtures.
At worst, this might result in foam being forced out a pipe on the side of
the building, or out a stack onto the roof, but that isn't likely if it's
only a few gallons of foam, and would certainly be better than having it
end up in your bathroom.
Maybe the root cause of the problem is blockage that is farther down the
line, but for some reason it is easier for the backflow to occur through
your 3 fixtures than the ones that are farther down. Perhaps foam can only
come out your fixtures during some combination of events, e.g. water backs
up behind some blockage to a certain point, then downdraft from water
entering the pipes up above pushes the foam out.
Luck,
Larry
|
198.523 | Sounds like a probability problem. | XK120::SHURSKY | How's my noting? Call 1-800-BUM-NOTE! | Fri Oct 04 1991 10:40 | 39 |
| Is it possible that all of the above floor's waste water comes through this
pipe? If so, I expect you have a probability problem. Your problem happens
when someone above you is washing clothes, another is flushing the toilet
and a third has just let out his bath water. Result, the carrying capacity
of the waste pipe is not sufficient to carry the combined flow. Especially,
since the water probably comes screaming down from the above floors and hits
the level area in your place where it backs up into your fixtures. To carry
the same flow as a vertical pipe a nearly horizontal pipe has to be larger.
The reduced flow volume of the pipe in this area causes the stuff to bubble
out of your fixtures. The reason the lower tub is not effected is that it
is on a vertical pipe and the water goes screaming by (no back pressure).
The technical term for this phenomenon is "hydraulic jump". It is the same
reason that water piles up behind a stick in a stream or that a three foot
wave of water propagates *up* the Amazon River when the tide comes in. (I am
sure you really wanted to know all this ;-)
Some possible solutions:
1) You can install larger waste piping for the horizontal run in
your condo. You could also add a second pipe to carry some of
the load around your fixtures. Just make sure the water "hits"
the bypass pipe first.
2) Redesign the piping so it goes vertically through your condo and
and doesn't have the horizontal run. Your piping would come into
the side of this pipe. Doesn't look easy from your drawing. Plus,
if your are low enough relative to where the pipe heads horizontally
below you, you may still experience the problem.
3) Redesign the piping so some of the above condos waste water comes
down a separate pipe and bypasses your condo.
4) Put a valve or constriction in the pipe before your condo. This
will reduce the flow before it gets to your condo and alleviate the
problem. Of course, it is now the problem of the guy upstream of
you. ;-)
That's the deal,
Stan
|
198.524 | just picking for clues... | TOKNOW::METCALFE | Eschew Obfuscatory Monikers | Fri Oct 04 1991 15:51 | 6 |
| Did anyone move in above you about "2+ years" ago? Is there some
sort of behavior they might enjoin to cause a gush? (Emptying a
wet vac with junk in it?) Does the overflow happen at regular intervals?
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd ask the oddest of
questions if the experts are baffled and the pipes look clean.
|
198.525 | Answer the easy questions? | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Tue Oct 08 1991 09:15 | 8 |
|
Did someone send their pet Aligator for a swim????
Sounds like the system overloads. Does everybody wash all
at once? Is there any reason or place water from another place
is comming into your system at the times it backs up??
JD
|
198.526 | More info | FREEBE::RUFO | | Wed Oct 09 1991 12:15 | 19 |
| Thanks for the replies. Here is the scoop. The backup
happens whenever anyone above us (on the vertical stack)
does a (even slightly) oversoaped wash. It occures at
3:00am or 12:30am or anytime the wash is being done so
I have ruled out a possible overload of the pipe.
The plumbers say the venting is fine because if it wasn't
we would see more problems, our toilets wouldn't flush correctly.
I don't have a real good understanding of venting so I guess
the plumbers make sense. Yesterday I had the town inspector
a few plumbers and the condo rep over for a real-time display
of the problem. I ran a washing machine on the third floor and
I really oversoaped the machine. Ten minutes later... ten +
gallons of soap foam backs up to there amazement.
They say this 4" pipe is more than big enough to handle this.
Anyway, I'll let you know. Thursday they will be opening another
section of the floor and we will see what surprizes they find.
|
198.527 | Probably the vent | ASDG::NOORLAG | Yankee Dutchman | Thu Oct 24 1991 15:14 | 20 |
| I think you have a venting problem. From your description I understand you
don't see just foam; also air bubbles appear. Air bubbles are an indication
that pressure has been building up in the sewer pipe.
If you are willing to put up with sewer smell for an hour, you could find
out whether you have a venting problem in the following way:
- Siphon the water out of the water lock in one of your toilets. This will
create a very good vent for the sewer, but things will get smelly in that
bathroom;
- oversoap a washing machine the way you did before.
If the tub and the other toilet are fine now, then you definitely have a
venting problem. In that case your "experts" were wrong.
If you still have foam problems, something else is going on. I am at a loss
what it could be, but it would definitely *not* be the vent.
/Date
|
198.528 | I wish it was venting | SVCVAX::RUFO | | Fri Oct 25 1991 13:03 | 12 |
| Blocked or restricted venting makes sence but...
We took a toilet off and tested the system. A backup did
occur. We (the plumbers) cut the vent pipes up in the ceiling
in attempt to troubleshoot a venting problem, then when we tested
the system, foam came out of the vent pipes as well as the toilets!!
I think that whats happening is that the vent pipes, once filled
with foam, can't vent anymore and are then useless.
We hired a consulting engineer who is currently looking into our
problem.
|
198.186 | To vent or not to vent...part II | AKOCOA::MINEZZI | | Fri Oct 25 1991 14:53 | 20 |
|
I have a first floor toilet that won't drain fast. I replaced the
toilet, so I know that it isn't that. There are no clogs. But, I also
noticed that the drainage wasn't "vented". The sink drains weren't vented
either. Also is it ok to have the sink/tub runs traped right before
they enter the main?
How could you vent a run like this; Does it need venting?
toilet sink tub
\ \ \
endcap------------------~-----------~-----
main septic
--- 5 inch main PVC that runs at about a 15 degree angle to the septic
\ 3 inch PVC
~ Trap
Help...Thanks,
Ron.
|
198.187 | | FSDB47::FEINSMITH | Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It | Sat Oct 26 1991 00:11 | 5 |
| Are you sure there isn't some sort of vent, perhaps hidden in a wall?
An unvented system like that would probably be against any municipal
code I've heard of.
Eric
|
198.339 | | STOKES::HIGGINS | Wot? No gwayvee? | Mon Nov 11 1991 14:06 | 14 |
| Yeah, I had the same problem too, until Sunday. The tube
from the inlet valve had slipped off of the verticle pipe
that rises above the water line. When you flush, water
rushes in to the holding tank from the bottom of the inlet valve
*and* through the tube. I thought the tube was the only way that
water filled the holding tank. With a pamphlet from NHD hardware
showing how the whole system works, I put the tube back inside
the verticle pipe and VIOLA, the holding tank fills (a little
more slowly, but that's how it's supposed to work) and the
bowl fills to the proper depth.
Don't I feel like a real handyman now!
Gary
|
198.188 | funny? toilet problem | WMOIS::BRENNAN_P | | Tue Dec 03 1991 16:13 | 14 |
|
Have an interesting problem with toilet. Every so often the bowl
has very little water in it. I don't know weather the water slowly
leaves or never enters the bowl (I never wait around to check).
If the bowl has little water in it when I flush, I get lots of air
bubbles (4-6 big loud). Sometimes I get bubbles even if the water
is not low. I have not been able to determine when it will happen
and I think the bowl has a good seal with the drain (no water damage
in the floor).
????
|
198.189 | | ELWOOD::LANE | | Tue Dec 03 1991 16:39 | 8 |
| re .-1
Has it been windy lately? Have you recently done some work that seals
an air leak like replacing a weather seal or something? I've seen airtight
houses have troubles like this when the wind blows and creates a vacuum
in the vent pipe.
Mickey.
|
198.190 | | EVMS::PAULKM::WEISS | Trade freedom for security-lose both | Tue Dec 03 1991 18:24 | 3 |
| Is it an Elger? See notes 1977 and 2059.
Paul
|
198.191 | .43 funny toilet | WMOIS::BRENNAN_P | | Wed Dec 04 1991 14:52 | 9 |
| re .43 & .44
I don't know? I'll start to watch the wind (is windy today). The
house is 20 yrs old, I don't really believe it is that air tight.
Would a vacum cause the bowl water to drop down? If so, where is that
water going, up the vent?
Thanks
paul
|
198.192 | | MANTHN::EDD | Cherub Of Justice | Thu Dec 05 1991 10:19 | 7 |
| Anytime you get a good wind blowing across the vent stack you get
air pressure that rises and falls rapidly. When this happens it causes
the water in the bowl to slosh around. Some of it sloshes right over
the "lip" (hidden high part in bowl) and goes down the soil pipe just
like when you flush.
Edd
|
198.286 | hairline crack in toilet bowl | TOOK::M_OLSON | | Thu Dec 05 1991 11:51 | 12 |
| One of our toilets has a hairline crack inside the bowl. It extends
from the rim about 3/4 of the way down the bowl. Should I care about
this? We
can see no leak, but how is the bowl part connected to the rest of the
toilet? Could it be leaking in some way that is bad for the sub floor
but which we can't see? Is the toilet likely the break, and will it
leak (flood?) when it does?
We are toilet novices. Thanks for any light you all can shed.
Margaret.
|
198.193 | Still not convinced of funny toilet problem | WMOIS::BRENNAN_P | | Thu Dec 05 1991 12:09 | 11 |
| re .45
I don't know if it is an Elger, will check tonight. I don't think this
is the problem though. The bowl has gone days (out for the weekend)
without draining.
Also not convinced its the wind. I have two toilets on the same vent,
upstairs and downstairs. It's the downstairs toilet that does this.
If its the wind wouldn't it 'pull' more on the upstairs bowl?
Paul
|
198.287 | | FLOWER::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Dec 05 1991 12:24 | 9 |
| I had a hairline crack on my 50 year old toilets......no problem.
Most likely its in the surface.
Check around the base of the toilet for the leaks.
By the way,I replaced my old toilets,since they used about 5 gallons
a flush......and I have 5 children!
Marc H.
|
198.194 | Rainy day problem? | HAMRAD::DONADT | | Thu Dec 05 1991 13:54 | 8 |
| Since it's you downstairs toilet that is the problem, does this
problem only happen when it is raining heavily? If so, your septic
leach field may be saturating. This will cause problems flushing
a toilet on a low drain. Water will fill the bowl much higher than
normal, may even overflow and then slowly seep out until very little
is left in the bowl.
Ray
|
198.195 | Is it cracked? | SSDEVO::JACKSON | Jim Jackson | Thu Dec 05 1991 18:44 | 4 |
| Check for cracks. A cracked toilet can leak (probably into your
subflooring). The leak may not be consistent. I had a cracked toilet that
only leaked occasionally. In my case, the cracks were very obvious and the
toilet fell into pieces as soon as I unbolted it from the floor.
|
198.196 | May be a rain day problem | WMOIS::BRENNAN_P | | Fri Dec 06 1991 14:23 | 13 |
| I don't know if its only during heavy rains. I know part of the yard
does become saturated so it would not suprize me (wouldn't make me
happy either). If this is the problem would I notice all the drains
downstaris run slow?
If I do have a problem with saturation, do I need to fix it? Toilet
has neve overflowed (I'll check to see if it fill higher than it
should). I assume the only way I could fix the problem is with
irrigation?
Seeya
Paul
|
198.197 | Tinkle...Trickle.... | MASALA::KANDERSON | Buying the Festive Spirit | Mon Dec 16 1991 01:39 | 6 |
| Lately my toilet after flushing takes a very long time to fill up
again,any help as to why this is?? The water trickles very slowly
which means there has to be a 15mins deley between each user...
is there any way to increase the flow speed back into the cystern (sp)
Thanks....
|
198.198 | May be trying to shutoff to early. | CLIPR::SCHWARTZ | | Mon Dec 16 1991 09:55 | 6 |
|
Have you checked the shut off by the outsideof the toilet to
make sure that some little Tinkler wasn't playing and has shut
off the incomming water supply???
Also check to see if the shutoff valve inside the toilet is working
properly.
|
198.199 | | FLOWER::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Mon Dec 16 1991 10:17 | 7 |
| There are adjustments inside the toilet to set BOTH the fill height and
the fill rate. The fill rate should be 1 minute.
Has it always been this slow? First check to see if something hasn't
changed or broken before adjusting the fill rate.
Marc H.
|
198.200 | Nae mair slow fill up... :-) | BHUNA::KANDERSON | Albena be back | Sun Jan 26 1992 12:56 | 5 |
| Sorry i took so long to reply i was busy (Honest)
Got the problem solved of the slow loo.....Just a slight adjustment.
Thanks Katrina
|
198.201 | pros and cons??? | SMURF::DIBBLE | RECYCLE - do it now, or pay later! | Thu Feb 06 1992 14:27 | 10 |
| I'm looking for comments on cheap vs non-cheap toilets.
At this time Builders Square has a $38.00 toilet that I'm thinking
about for our new master bath.
Has anyone out there had bad experiences with the cheaper toilets that
they didn't seem to have with more expensive ones?
thanks,
Ben
|
198.202 | good luck here | FROST::SIMON | Birds can't row boats | Thu Feb 06 1992 15:36 | 8 |
| re: -.1
I've got two Artesian toilets that I put in when I built my house.
Neither one cost more than $90 (I believe the first one was only
$49). I have had good luck with both so far. I built my house
about 8 years ago.
_gary
|
198.203 | | HYEND::C_DENOPOULOS | FantasiesFullfilledWhile-U-Wait | Wed Feb 12 1992 19:39 | 8 |
| I had an expensive toilet in my old house. You could stop the water
flow just by pulling the handle up. This way, if it looked like your
toilet was going to overflow, you could easily and quickly stop it. In
the new house, the builder put in a fairly cheap toilet (according to
my plumber). This one overflows very easily, runs continuously(sp)
sometimes. Whenever I get the money, I'm going to replace it.
Chris D.
|
198.204 | replace your valves | KEYBDS::HASTINGS | | Thu Feb 13 1992 12:31 | 11 |
| re: last
Try replacing the valves inside the toilet if it runs continuously. I
just did my toilet and was very pleasantly surprised at how easy it was
to do. They sell the complete kit for under $20 (I think). The job took
me all of 30 minutes including finding the tools to do it. Over all I'd
rate the difficulty of doing this job at twice the difficulty of
changing a light bulb.
Mark
|
198.205 | twice as good at 4 times the price | EMMFG::LAYTON | | Fri Feb 14 1992 15:54 | 10 |
| The one piece (expensive) toilets I have, can't overflow because the
high water level line in the tank section is just below the bowl rim.
The tank water enters the bowl through an opening at the bottom of the
bowl and creates a whirlpool suction effect. The upper part of the
bowl is rinsed by fresh water shunted from the float valve - about 50%
of the incoming water refills the tank, and the rest rinses the bowl.
These are Kohler Rialto models, if memory serves, and we like them,
although it seems like they run forever after a flush.
|
198.206 | Don't get Mansfield | MILPND::STUART | | Mon Feb 17 1992 15:43 | 6 |
|
In the last two new constructions I've purchased the builder used
Mansfield .... In my opinion that must be the bottom of the line !
They don't always flush properly and the tank parts wear quickly.
|
198.340 | Toilet drains slow - vent problem? | XANADU::RECKARD | Jon Reckard, 381-0878, ZKO3-2/T63 | Fri Feb 21 1992 18:40 | 27 |
198.341 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Mon Feb 24 1992 19:14 | 59 |
| > Our second-floor toilet doesn't flush well.
>
> When describing the symptoms to a helpful guy at Somerville Lumber
> (Bedford, NH), he diagnosed a plugged vent. Any seconds on this?
Yes, given that the path down is open (you verified this) the lack
of a good vent is the next most likely cause.
> If this is the case, then I have a problem. I've done some roof-repair
> and done a lot of walking around on the (gently sloping) roof. There
> is no stack vent visible. I can only assume it's vented into our
> masonry chimney (oil burner). (This is a THREE-family house!)
I think it is very unlikely that it would vent into a chimney. It
certainly would NOT meet code for either the drain/waste/vent
system or the chimney system. If you verify that that IS the case,
fix it!
More likely is that there is no vent, or a clogged vent.
Do you have an attic crawl space? Check it out. Look in the area
directly above where the drain pipe goes down to the basement.
Could it be vented into the attic/crawl space? That also wouldn't
meet code.
If you can find the vent, use your good old trusty snake on it and
see if this fixes the problem.
As I recall, a vent should be the same diameter as the stack it
vents. For a home that probably means 3" diameter, maybe 4". (Or
maybe there is a rule that it can be reduced by 1", subject to
some minimum size. I'm not sure about this.) To install a vent,
you need to extend the stack up to and through the roof. It need
not go exactly straight up; you can use 45 degree angles or even
horizontal runs (with a slight pitch so that rain water will
drain! Yes, some rain comes in the vent).
You'll need to cut a hole in the roof that is large enough for the
outside diameter of the pipe -- which is larger than the nominal
3" or 4" size! Measure twice, cut once, they say.
You can buy pre-made flashings for this opening. They are a sheet
of aluminum with a whole in the center. The whole has a rubber or
vinyl fitting that slides over the pipe to make a weather-tight
seal. You slide the flashing under the shingles that are just
above the centerline of the hole you cut in the roof and leave it
over the shingles that are below the hole. Nail it in place by
gently lifting the shingles that are on top of it, placing 2 nails
along the top, and then smoothing the lifted shingles back into
place. I would put a generous bead of roofing cement under the
flashing along the top and sides, but not across the bottom. I wou
ld NOT put cement between the flashing and the shigles that go
over it, except for maybe a small dab of cement to hold down the
shingles you lifted to nail.
DISCLAIMER: This could be fairly straight forward or it could be a
major project. My thoughts above are not intended to replace the
expert advice of a professional plumber. Naturally, you must
follow code and local laws as the pertain.
|
198.342 | | DPDMAI::FEINSMITH | Politically Incorrect And Proud Of It | Mon Feb 24 1992 19:35 | 4 |
| As an addition to -.1, if you want to lift shingles, try to do it when
the sun has already warmed the roof, so the shingles are more pliable.
Eric
|
198.125 | Leaky toilet at Supply-line Shutoff-valve connection. | DANGER::OBRIEN | | Wed Apr 01 1992 14:33 | 38 |
| I looked through these notes and didn't see an explanation for fixing a
toilet that is leaking at the shut-off supply-line connection. Can someone
explain this to me?
| | <---- Supply line
| |
| |
| | <----- Leak
+-+--+-+
| |
Wall | | +-+
+----------+ +-----+ | |
| <--8"---> | | | |
| +-----------+ | | |
+-----| +----| |
| |
+-----| +----| |
| ^ +-----------+ | | |
| | ^ ^ | | | |
| | | +-----------------------+ | |
| | | ^ +-+
| | | |
| Sweat Joint| |
| | |
Copper pipe | +--- Shutoff valve
|
|
|
+-- No Threads...No obvious sweat joint...
Is shutoff valve and 8" pipe one piece?
|
198.126 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | DCU -- I'm making REAL CHOICES | Wed Apr 01 1992 16:24 | 42 |
|
From what I recall, the (chromed) shutoff valve is soldered to the
copper pipe. The location of the leak indicates that you should be able
to fix it without replacing the shutoff valve.
The flexible supply line to the tank is connected to the shutoff valve by
a compression fitting.
------* --*
|^^^ /\ |
shutoff ------------------------
valve flexible line
body ------------------------
|vvv \/ |<- nut
------* ^ ^ --*
| |
thread ferrule
The flexible line fits into the threaded nipple on the shuttoff valve
body. The ferrule slides snugly over the flexible line. The nut mashes
the ferrule against the nipple and the line, sealing the connection.
To fix the leak:
o compression nut may be loose; try tightening
o just to make sure it isn't leaking from another likely spot and
dribbling over, try tightening the nut below the shuttoff handle
(this performs a similar job to the compression nut, except that it
jams down soft packing around the valve stem)
o ferrule may be damaged; disassemble and try replacing the ferrule
(may be available in hardware stores; brass; standard sizes)
(deformation during compression may make it impossible to just
remove ferrule; cut off small section of pipe with ferrule, or
proceed to next step)
o line may be nicked or deformed at compression point; buy a new
flexible line kit, including compression fittings
o replace shuttoff valve
|
198.127 | | MANTHN::EDD | Real programs in DCL? .NOT.! | Wed Apr 01 1992 16:24 | 3 |
| No nut at leak point to tighten?
Edd
|
198.128 | | MANTHN::EDD | Real programs in DCL? .NOT.! | Wed Apr 01 1992 16:26 | 1 |
| Notes collision!
|
198.129 | | BRAT::REDZIN::DCOX | | Wed Apr 01 1992 16:38 | 5 |
| just make sure that there really is a leak. It is possible that sweat
from the outside/underside of tha tank is running down the feader
making it look like a leak at that point.
Dave
|
198.90 | Fix for crack in Tank | ESMAIL::GATTERMAN | Bruce Gatterman DTN 223-5110 | Fri Jun 12 1992 00:02 | 9 |
| My problem is not a leak from the bolts, but a slight crack in the
bottom of the tank. Is there any type of compound which can be applied
to seal this crack? The plumber told us that if it gets any worse the
tank will have to be replaced. As it might be hard to match the color
after 25 years, I'd like to keep the tank. Any suggestions will be
deeply appreciated.
Bruce
|
198.91 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | | Fri Jun 12 1992 14:34 | 33 |
| Take the tank off, allow it to *thoroughly dry*
While it's drying out get some clear silicone sealant
When dry, spread a very thin layer over the crack about 1/2" wide.
Allow to dry.
Spread another layer over this; this time about an inch wide.
Allow to dry
Finally spread another layer on, this time a bit thicker and about 2"
wide.
Reinstall the tank with new close coupling bolt washers and close
coupling gasket. Use new brass bolts and nuts if the old ones are
corroded.
Allow to dry and CURE for at least 24 hours before filling with water.
In each case, if the crack starts at one of the close coupled bolt
holes, run the sealant *through* the hole, but don't allow a large
build up around the bolt washer. Put a very thin layer around the bolt
hole to match the thin layer leading up to the hole, so the rubber
washer sits flat. When all this is dry, install the tank on the
bowl and *loosely* do up the close couple bolts with the new washers
and then run a bead of seallant around the washer. Allow to dry
and then tighten the coupling bolts. Allow to cure for 24 hours and
then fill.
Total time for repair about 48 hours.
I followed this procedure on a plumbers advice and it certainly
survived 18 months without problems. Total cost was about $5.00
for washers, bolts and gaskets, and $3.00 for a small tube of
sealant and tired ears from the family wanting to know whenthey could
use the toilet again.
Stuart
|
198.92 | Try epoxy | MSEE::TOWLE | Corky | Fri Jun 12 1992 14:58 | 15 |
| RE: <<< Note 283.9 by ESMAIL::GATTERMAN "Bruce Gatterman DTN 223-5110" >>>
.10 gives good advice but if you're in a hurry,,,,,
Devcon 5 minute epoxy worked for me.
Removed cleaned and dried out the tank using the kids blow drier, roughened
up the crack with some 120 grit cloth backed wet or dry sandpaper, cleaned
tank around crack again with tooth brush and laquer thinner then gobbed in
the Devcon.
The facilities were back in operation in less than an hour. :-)
Its been 5 years and no leaks.
|
198.554 | Flush toilet alternative(s)? | CARTUN::BERGGREN | drumming is good medicine | Mon Sep 28 1992 12:19 | 12 |
| Any recommendations on good chemical toilets or inexpensive
alternatives to flush toilets?
I'm converting space in my barn to workshop space. While it's way
out of my budget to install a bathroom with flush toilet, I want to
explore other options of providing basic, but comfortable toilet
facilities.
Thanks,
Karen
|
198.555 | Back to Basics | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Mon Sep 28 1992 12:32 | 7 |
| How about an Outhouse?
:)
:)
Marc H.
|
198.556 | | CARTUN::BERGGREN | drumming is good medicine | Mon Sep 28 1992 13:11 | 5 |
| Oh, hi Marc,
An outhouse is a little *TOO* basic. :-)
Karen
|
198.557 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Sep 28 1992 14:24 | 4 |
| Check ads in Yankee magazine (I'm sure there are other places, but I've
seen them there). There are ads for composting and incinerating toilets.
Steve
|
198.558 | New meaning to "hot seat" | STAR::BECK | Paul Beck | Tue Sep 29 1992 22:00 | 1 |
| Incinerating toilets? Sounds ... uncomfortable.
|
198.559 | | CARTUN::BERGGREN | drumming is good medicine | Wed Sep 30 1992 14:34 | 12 |
| :-)
Thanks for the suggestions. I've heard of the "incinerating" toilets.
Hafta admit, I am very curious as to how they work, but not enough to
set my own buns on one. :-) I heard they cost in the neighborhood
of $1000. Still kinda steep for me.
Anyone know of any good chemical toilets and their price range?
Thanks,
Kb
|
198.560 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Sep 30 1992 15:27 | 1 |
| See 3099 for information on composting toilets.
|
198.561 | Portables from Sears or any RV/Marine store | PARITY::KLEBES | John F. Klebes | Wed Sep 30 1992 15:49 | 11 |
| You can buy inexpensive portable toilets from Sears or RV/Marine supply
stores. You would have to empty them probably once our twice a week
but you can pick one up for under $100.00. I use one in my popup
camper and love it ($69.00 from Sears). It is inconvenient to have to
dump it out but it beats an outhouse and is very cost effective. Most
have a separate waste container that separates from the toilet and can
be easily dumped out into a regular toilet or septic system. You could
always dig an outhouse pit near by to dump it into so that you don't
have to transport the waste water very far and still have the comfort
of a flush toilet. (course I would never suggest doing such a thing
without an approved septic plan)
|
198.562 | | CARTUN::BERGGREN | drumming is good medicine | Thu Oct 01 1992 00:52 | 3 |
| Thanks for the pointer (.6), and the reference (.7).
Kb
|
198.563 | .m.OO.m. | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Thu Oct 01 1992 09:19 | 3 |
|
How close are the neighbors to your workshop...... :)
|
198.564 | <---- :^o :^) | CARTUN::BERGGREN | drumming is good medicine | Thu Oct 01 1992 15:23 | 1 |
|
|
198.343 | proper vent distance ?? | SALEM::HOULE | | Thu Oct 08 1992 14:05 | 16 |
|
A friend has a similiar problem. His 2nd floor master bath gurgles
ocassionally when he flushes the toilet or uses the sink. There are 2
separate baths upstairs. The one directly above the 1st floor bath has
a full bath in it and the master is a 3/4. The distance from the
(full) bath tub to the stand-up (master) shower is about 15 feet. Both
baths are vented to the same vent as the first floor. I say the master
shower is too far away to be venting properly. What do you think?
He lives in NH. Anyone know what the distance is for baths to need
separate vents??
thanks
don
|
198.344 | indoor plumbing???? | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Oct 09 1992 10:14 | 8 |
|
I'm going to go out on a limb here.....(ok, everyone put down
the saws!) and say "rule of tumb is if you have a (ex.) 1"
pipe, your vent cant be more that 3' away. (dia x 3(distance)).
please correct me if i'm wrong here...
JD
|
198.345 | | DDIF::FRIDAY | Don't wait for the holodeck | Fri Oct 09 1992 14:43 | 4 |
| If a drain is a long distance from the vent pipe, there's
generally a secondary vent pipe that runs from the drain
over to the vent and taps into it. I believe that the
plumbing code dictates when you have to do that.
|
198.346 | | VMSDEV::HAMMOND | Charlie Hammond -- ZKO3-04/S23 -- dtn 381-2684 | Mon Oct 19 1992 18:31 | 6 |
| I don't believe its a "rule of thumb". I think the code has an
explicit limit. i.e. if there is more that six(?) feet of
horizontal run to the vertical stack you need a separate vent.
A quick call to you're building inspector can get the exact
distance.
|
198.241 | fishy smell in bathroom? | SMAUG::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Thu Dec 03 1992 16:10 | 38 |
| On the subject of smelling bathrooms...
We have a bathroom that gets a very fishy smell when a light is turned on -
and we cannot isolate the source!
We're new to the house. Before us, the bathroom was used for about 4 years
by 4 kids (same age as house). The previous owner told us the bathroom saw
many flooded floors (tiled).
This is now our extra bathroom, and is used only when guests stay over.
The smell only occurs when a light is turned on. Whether it's the overhead
exhaust fan light or the light fixture over the sink. It takes about 2
minutes before the smell starts. After a short while the smell is very strong.
There's no smell at all if you don't turn on a light (the sun shining in doesn't
seem to trigger the smell).
OK. So we've cleaned and scoured the place from top to bottom. Sanded and
painted the rusted heater baseboard. When unclogging the tub drain, the junk
that came out, if I recall, had a fishy smell (and maybe faintly urine). But
the smell persisted. When cleaning the overhead exhaust fan/light, it too had
an incredibly strong fishy smell when its light was on. So for a while we
thought that was it and thought we would replace it. In the meantime I took
out the lightbulb to the fan. But as I said, even turning on the lights above
the sink triggers the smell. So maybe it's something else.
It gets embarrassing having guests use the bathroom for a weekend :-(
Anyway, anyone have any ideas? What could be causing the smell?
Oh, one other thing. While the house was on the market, the owner's father
wallpapered the bathroom. She said her father liked doing house work - which
is very true - he went around fixing lot's of little things before they moved
out. But of course, it has us wondering if they covered anything up?
Thanks for any thoughts,
Dan
|
198.242 | SWAG | 18937::EDD | Jiggle the handle... | Thu Dec 03 1992 16:40 | 7 |
| Have you swapped out all the lightbulbs?
Perfume placed on a lightbulb will scent a room when the bulb is lit,
so I imagine some less pleasant substances (Thai fish sauce? :^)) will
do the same thing ...
Edd
|
198.243 | | TNPUBS::MACKONIS | We are a compromise of nature! | Thu Dec 03 1992 17:15 | 2 |
| Does the fan have a filter in it? You may have to clean/replace the filter?
Could something be stuck in the fan vent pipe?
|
198.244 | check the fixtures too | KOLFAX::WHITMAN | Acid Rain Burns my Bass | Thu Dec 03 1992 22:50 | 10 |
| < Have you swapped out all the lightbulbs?
<
< Perfume placed on a lightbulb will scent a room when the bulb is lit,
< so I imagine some less pleasant substances (Thai fish sauce? :^)) will
< do the same thing ...
I'd checkout the light fixtures too! I'd assume it's the heat from the lights
that is triggering the smell.
Al
|
198.245 | | SMAUG::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Fri Dec 04 1992 12:33 | 39 |
| Thanks for the ideas!
> Have you swapped out all the lightbulbs?
Yup, put in new bulbs. No change.
>Does the fan have a filter in it? You may have to clean/replace the filter?
>Could something be stuck in the fan vent pipe?
No, no filter. And nothing stuck. The fan vents into the attic and
straight into the insulation (pink fiberglass). The insulation doesn't smell
or anything, but is it OK to vent into it?
>I'd checkout the light fixtures too! I'd assume it's the heat from the lights
>that is triggering the smell.
Well, after some trial and error investigating last night, it seems that this
might be getting closer...
The light fixtures have been previously taken down and cleaned. After turning
on the lights above the sink and trying on and off for several hours to isolate
the smell (your nose gets burnt out after while), it seemed that the smell may
be coming from the wall switch (3 switches), the nearby electical outlet, and
the ligtbulb sockets!
While the entire bathroom has a strong smell, none of these places alone has
a very strong smell. But they're the only places where you can put your nose
right up to them and get a little bit of the smell (sometimes stromger than
other). Of course, after I took the wall plates off they didn't seem to have
the smell much anymore. (The wallplates themselves don't smell.)
This morning I tried one quick test before leaving. I turned on only the
exhaust fan...to see if I could pinpoint the switch box (or whatever it's
called). But no smell.
Time to concentrate on the light fixture I guess. It doesn't smell at all when
off... more testing tonight.
Dan
|
198.246 | burning insulation | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri Dec 04 1992 13:08 | 10 |
|
I noticed the same smell recently (Thai Fish Sauce is spot on!!)
after cleaning and replacing bulbs in a light fitting. I thought
It was the cleaning fluid on the bulb, but seems to be plastic
insulation getting too hot. Did you uprate the bulbs?
Regards,
Colin
|
198.247 | | SMAUG::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Fri Dec 04 1992 13:25 | 13 |
| > I thought
> It was the cleaning fluid on the bulb, but seems to be plastic
> insulation getting too hot. Did you uprate the bulbs?
Ah ha. I swapped the bulbs last night, and noticed that one of them was
a 100 watt bulb. So maybe there's some plastic insulation around the light
socket that was getting too hot... hmmmm. Wait a second. Changing the
bulbs was the first thing I did - I put in 60 watt bulbs. So the 60 watters
are still causing the smell. Perhaps the plastic insulation has melted
enough to be too close to the bulb or something...
Thx again all,
Dan
|
198.248 | | 18937::EDD | Jiggle the handle... | Fri Dec 04 1992 15:25 | 18 |
| Aren't SMURF:: and SMAUG:: both in N.H.?
Could it be that your electric company is selling you bad electricity?
Oh sure, they'll deny it if confronted, but it's pretty easy to tell
when you get a load of stinktricity. Sometimes they symptoms are
innocuous enough; you can't balance the budget on your PC, your kids'
stereo emits raucous noise, a 20 minute TV program takes 30 minutes.
But at other times the manifestation is insidious. The "stinky
bathroom" is the most clever. NOBODY believes the electricity is the
cause when you tell them the bathroom stinks after you've been in there
for 20 minutes. Yet, mark my words, it IS the electricity.
If the power company won't help, you can have a charcoal rectifier
installed as a filter. Insist it be installed *before* your meter, that
way *they* have to empty it.
Edd
|
198.249 | | VERGA::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome PKO3-1/D30 | Fri Dec 04 1992 15:29 | 5 |
| re: .25
I bet that nuclear electricity coming from Seabrook has something
to do with it. The radioactive electrons ooze out of the wires
and react with the insulation.
|
198.250 | cow hampshire teknolojy | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri Dec 04 1992 15:36 | 9 |
|
That's it! I left one bulb socket empty and it's leaking out!
We had to do something with all that NH cowsh*t, so electricity
is now produced from methane, which accounts for the occasional
explosion from the bathroom too. Coming soon - "Smellevision"
the NH answer to cable.
C.
|
198.251 | | SMAUG::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Fri Dec 04 1992 16:24 | 13 |
| You may be on to something here... We live in a small town in central
Mass... and I think they use farm animals to generate the electicity, perhaps
some animal manure is getting into the line!
---
If that was a serious reply a few back about the 'bad' electricity, then I'd
expect to have throughout the house, not just one room.
Dan
ps - SMAUG is in Littleton MA. But even if it was in NH, I certainly don't
live in the same building where I work (well, sometimes).
|
198.252 | replaced receptacles, smell gone | SMAUG::FLOWERS | IBM Interconnect Eng. | Mon Dec 21 1992 16:45 | 10 |
| [to close this thread of the topic...]
The smell (like Thai Fish Sauce) was indeed caused by the plastic insulation
in the light fixture being overheated. Previous owners had 100 watt bulbs
in there. Simply lowering the wattage (to 60watt bulbs) did not eliminate
the smell (it just took a little longer - for it to get hot enough I guess).
Replacing the socket receptacles ($1.69 each) was easy and did the trick.
Dan
|
198.356 | Did my toilet die?? | TNPUBS::MACKONIS | In wildness is the preservation of the world...Thoreau | Tue Jan 19 1993 17:52 | 14 |
| Let me preface this by saying I know very little about plumbing, but I really
hope this is not a serious problem....
This morning when I flushed my toilet, the handle went down and nothing happened.
Taking the cover off the tank (that much I know how to do) I looked in and there
was no water.
Now, the water is running and going at all other sources (sink, tub, etc).
Any ideas?
dana
(no one touched the water shut off -- I live alone)
|
198.357 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Jan 19 1993 18:01 | 2 |
| 1) Someone shut the shutoff valve
2) Flush valve broken/jammed
|
198.358 | Check the float | TEXAS1::SIMPSON | | Tue Jan 19 1993 18:03 | 7 |
|
You might want to check the ball float (usually black, a little
larger than a baseball). If it is stuck in the up position
(maybe caught on the side of the tank), it won't open the valve
to replace the water.
Ed
|
198.359 | Frozen supply line? | STRAY::BUSKY | | Tue Jan 19 1993 19:26 | 3 |
| Is there any chance that the supply line froze?
Charly
|
198.360 | recent work? | SMURF::WALTERS | | Tue Jan 19 1993 19:45 | 6 |
|
Any chance that bad plumber you had did any soldering near there?
Could be a lump of solder in the inlet valve.
Colin
|
198.361 | | TNPUBS::MACKONIS | In wildness is the preservation of the world...Thoreau | Tue Jan 19 1993 21:02 | 25 |
| To answer the questions....
- No one touched the shutoff valve since I live alone -- unless I did it
in my sleep, which I doubt...
- The ball float was all the way down and I jiggled it around, it was free and
clear.
- I jiggled the handle to be sure it actually moved stuff on the inside of the
tank and all looked ok
- I would have to say no, on the line freeze, it comes up from the cellar and
into the wall, it is the same line as the sink and tub (it is actually
physically located between the two) and they both are fine. Now my drain
on the tub froze last night because the plumber from hell has it running
on an outside, uninsulated wall...need I say more.
the solder thing sounds like it could be a real nightmare... hope not.
I will jiggle some more stuff around tonight.... guess I can use the water
in the bathtub that won't drain to flush to toilet.... maybe it all worked
out for the best (only joking, or at least trying to make myself laugh).
dana
(who wishes she was married to a handyman!)
|
198.362 | | MANTHN::EDD | Jiggle the handle... | Wed Jan 20 1993 09:48 | 8 |
| At this point I'd suugest the first thing to do is determine if water
is getting to and thru the shutoff valve. You might try turning the
valve on and off a few times, as something may have jammed in there.
(But if the supply is completely stopped I'd doubt it.)
Further diagnosis will require a wrench...
Edd
|
198.363 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Jan 20 1993 12:30 | 26 |
| Replacing a toilet flush valve is a pretty simple task, and the instructions
which come with the replacement valves leave little to the imagination.
Here's how I would approach it...
1. Shut off the shutoff valve.
2. Remove all water from the tank (use a sponge to get up what
remains on the bottom.
3. Using a wrench or pliers, remove the nut which secures the
feed line to the flush valve. Keep a sponge around, as some
water is likely to drip out.
4. Now just crack open the shutoff valve. Do you get water
dripping (or spraying) out of the connection to the flush
valve? If so, you've got water pressure and the flush valve
is defective; go to step 5, otherwise call a plumber as other
possible problems are not easily attacked by a novice.
5. Go to the hardware store (or K-mart or just about any other
store with a hardware department) and buy a Fluidmaster type
400 replacement valve. Take it home and follow the instructions
for replacement.
This last step applies if you have a standard two-piece toilet. If it's a
one-piece, you'll need a special valve that is made for your model and will
have to go to a plumbing supply store.
Steve
|
198.364 | Still think it is a frozen water pipe | ASDG::NOORLAG | Yankee Dutchman | Wed Jan 20 1993 16:46 | 29 |
| If this problem occurred coincident with a cold spell (which seems to be
the case since your tub drain froze as well), I'd say the most likely cause
is a frozen water pipe. However, this assumption only holds if a section of
the supply line to your toilet is in the wall, and you can't see where
the supply line to your toilet branches off the main supply in your bath
room. If you can follow the water pipe to your toilet all the way until it
branches off the main supply, it is unlikely you have a frozen pipe (unless
of course the temperature in your bathroom was close to freezing).
Only a very small section of the supply line needs to be frozen to have a
problem! If your water pipe is indeed frozen, you should try to get it open
ASAP, before a larger section freezes, and your supply line might burst.
The trick is to get heat to the frozen section. What might help is to blow
hot air straight on the supply line where it exits from the wall with a
hair dryer. You may need to keep this up for several hours before the pipe
thaws, depending on how far away the frozen section is. Be careful with
overheating the hair dryer! If the frozen section is too far away, it may
not work at all. In that case I suggest you get a plumber to look at
the problem. They have equipment to run a large electrical current through
the water pipe, and open it up by resistive heating.
BTW, the tub drain is probably not frozen in the wall itself, but in the
siphon right under your tub. If that's the case, opening it up is easy.
Just empty your tub with a bucket, and fill the tub with hot water. The
drain should open up within minutes.
/Date
|
198.365 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Jan 20 1993 17:13 | 5 |
| > They have equipment to run a large electrical current through
>the water pipe, and open it up by resistive heating.
Echoing another recent discussion, here's a good reason for not using
plastic pipes.
|
198.366 | probably frozen... I had exact same problem! | CALS::HEALEY | DTN 297-2426 | Thu Jan 21 1993 14:08 | 29 |
|
Geez, funny that this topic should start. I've been meaning to enter
a similar question all week! About two weeks ago, the two toilets on
the second floor had the exact symptoms described in .0 (the tank would
not refill). The water was working just fine in the tub, shower, and
sinks. My father, a builder by trade, told us that the pipes must
be frozen... that some section of the pipe, after the branch off for
the sinks etc. must traverse an outside wall, even though the two
toilets were on inside walls, back to back (probably same pipe feeding them).
So, anyhow, my husband filled both toilet taps with scalding hot tap
water, waited an hour and things were O.K.... hasn't happened since.
Then, last week, the cold water in the corner bathroom wouldn't work.
Another frozen pipe... but the toilets were fine (go figure). This
sink is on an outside wall however. The solution was to put our little
portable heater under the sink for a couple of hours, then run the water.
You could hear the ice crackling in the pipe as it broke up.
Soooo, before you get out your wrenches, assume that a pipe must be
frozen somewhere. Even if most of the pipes come up from the center
of the house, if that bathroom is on an outside wall (like most are),
there is a chance that a pipe is on an outside wall as well. You can
only guess how the piping is rigged. BTW, our house is only 3 years
old. You would figure that the plumber could have done a better
job....
Karen
|
198.367 | localized freezing could be due to cold air infiltration | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Jan 21 1993 14:59 | 11 |
|
You say that the "plumber from hell" passed the bath drain pipe
through the wall? Can you see if he left an uncaulked gap between
the pipe and the wall. The other thing he may have done is removed
some insulation and not put it back properly. Either of these two
problems might contribute to a pipe freezing in a small area.
regards,
Colin
|
198.368 | The cause of frozen pipes is often easy to fix | ASDG::NOORLAG | Yankee Dutchman | Thu Jan 21 1993 18:04 | 22 |
| Actually, I had a problem with frozen pipes myself last winter. During the
spell in January 1992 the mixing valve and the drain of the bath tub
(located in the corner of my house) were frozen. Filling the tub with hot
water opened the drain within a minute. The mixing valve opened several
hours later (I heated the bathroom as much as I could).
When I investigated the cause of the problem, it turned out that the area
behind the bath tub where the mixing valve and the water lines are located
was in open connection with the attic! There was an R-30 batt covering the
void behind my tub, but cold wind from the attic had easy access to the
water lines and the drain pipe! I filled the void with extra insulation,
and nailed a panel in place in place over the void, and that took care
of the problem.
As .11 said, problems with frozen pipes can often be traced to bad
isolation or drafts. Usually, a pipe won't burst if only a small fraction
is frozen, but you never know how much leeway you have. I strongly
recommend you go after the cause of the problem, and (have someone) correct
it. Frozen pipes are only an inconvenience, but burst pipes are a major
problem.
/Date
|
198.369 | | TNPUBS::MACKONIS | In wildness is the preservation of the world...Thoreau | Thu Jan 21 1993 18:48 | 27 |
| Thanks for the lengthy and detailed description on fixing the flush valve...
This is a brand new toilet (2 months old) and as I said, with the cover off
when you push the handle down all the insides seem to work ok.
This morning -- when it was still 10 degrees at my house, I am in the kitchen
making coffee and I hear the tank start to fill up.... go figure!
I did trace the supply line thru the basement and into the walls -- the walls
in the basement were ripped open by the plumber and not covered again -- but it
is in a warm section near the furnace, they do go up into the walls and are
between the bathroom wall and the wall in the downstairs bedroom -- but there
is a closet right there and with the door closed it is quite chilly in
the closet. Guess on really cold nights I will leave the closet door open.
As for the tub --- it is still filled, I am going to empty it tonight. But the
last time this happened I filled a tea kettle with boiling water, after having
the little peolonius disc heater going in that corner for about 6 hours and
it didn't do a thing.....
I did go and buy some heat tape and pipe wrap yesterday and am borrowing my
girlfriend's husband this weekend to go down into the crawl space with me
and try and get these pipes into shape....
So laugh, I don't like my crawl space... things live down there... so where
does it say you have to be brave to be a home owner!!!!!
dana
|
198.370 | | MANTHN::EDD | Jiggle the handle... | Thu Jan 21 1993 19:02 | 10 |
| >...things live down there
Not to worry. Anything that lives in the crawlspace will probably be
cold-blooded and not very alert if it's cold enough to freeze your
pipes. I doubt they'd even have the energy to slither away when they
detect your presence. Probably just lie there...
;^)
Edd
|
198.371 | Oh Rats!!!!! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Jan 22 1993 11:12 | 7 |
|
remember to tie a rope to your feet and one end to the
wall. If by chance something is in there bigger that you,
scream and have someone pull you out!!!!! :):):):)
JD
|
198.372 | don't forget the machete | RAGMOP::T_PARMENTER | Bronca total | Fri Jan 22 1993 11:30 | 2 |
| If you lived down South . . .
|
198.373 | | TNPUBS::MACKONIS | In wildness is the preservation of the world...Thoreau | Fri Jan 22 1993 19:22 | 3 |
| You guys are really funny............ha, ha, ha.....
dana (the cowardly homeowner)
|
198.374 | pipes frozen, AGAIN! | CALS::HEALEY | DTN 297-2426 | Tue Feb 02 1993 15:00 | 23 |
|
Well folks,
My pipes are frozen again. I don't know exactly how
the house is plumbed so I really have no idea where the
freeze is. However, both sinks and showers in the two
bathrooms upstairs are working. It is the two toilets
that are not. One of the upstairs sinks was frozen but
two hours with a little heater under the sink fixed
that. After applying heat to the back of one of the
toilets for two hours this morning, I gave up, shut off
the water in the house and came to work. I really don't
know what to do to get the pipes thawed when I get home
tonight. The bathrooms are on the side of the house
that gets no sun so it is unlikely to thaw today.
What can I do about this recurring problem? Do I have
any recourse against the builder of this 3 year old house?
How can I get the pipes thawed?
Karen
|
198.375 | | MANTHN::EDD | The keyword is survival... | Tue Feb 02 1993 17:02 | 10 |
| Unfortunately, the only way to do it is methodically.
What do the supply lines to the toilets have in common with each other,
but not with the sinks? Where is a likely place for a freeze?
(Rhetorical questions....)
Are there any access panels? Can you identify where the upstairs
feeds come from? Toilets on seperate feeds? (Doubtfull.)
Edd
|
198.376 | more detail on freezing pipes... any suggestions? | CALS::HEALEY | DTN 297-2426 | Wed Feb 03 1993 12:09 | 87 |
|
Hi folks,
Some more detail on the "anatomy" of my house.... I'd
like to see if you folks have any ideas on this problem of
freezing pipes.
Here is a sketch of the house with the two bathrooms that
are involved. This is corner of the house. The problem
spots are the two toilets that are back to back from each
other and probably sit 2-3 feet from the outside wall
and the sink in the upper right corner on the picture.
The other sink, tub and shower are working just fine. There
is another bathroom below the bathroom on the right and it
doesn't have any problems either. The kitchen is below the bathroom
on the left. Oh, and the washing machine is almost below the
bathroom on the right, but more towards the front of the house.
I determined where the pipes go up to the bathrooms by
running hot water on the second floor and then checking out
the pipes in the basement for temperature. The water goes up
in the middle of the house! At that point, the pipes are not
near any exterior walls. I would guess that the pipes come up
where the one of the "*" is. I also marked the dead space (I'll
explain that in a minute) and garage roof. I really tend to
think that the pipes that are freezing are somehow exposed in
the dead space which does have soffet vents.
/----------------------------
/ |
/ dead space |
---------------------------------------------------------------
| | sink |
| | | garage
| toilet| | roof
| |toilet |
|tub | |
---- ---- |
| | |
| | |
| sink| |
* | * |shower |
<--------------- ------------- -|
V
Now, about that dead space...
You see, the kitchen on the first floor juts out and there is
a small dead space that covers it. I think the pipes for
the bathroom (some of them at least) might be in this dead
space. From the side, it looks like this:
|
| Note: DS = dead space
| | = 1 foot height
|
/|
/ |
/ | bathrooms on
/ DS | second floor
|-------------------------------
|
| kitchen on first floor
|
|
|
|
|
The dead space is about 4-5 feet high and 4-5 feet deep.
Next time I get a chance, I'm going to take a nail and make
a hole small enough to get a coat hanger through. Then I'm
going to poke around the dead space to see what is there.
For one, if there is no plywood between the house and the
dead space, that could be a problem since it probably means
that no insulation is there either. I expect there is
probably insulation on the "floor" of the dead space and also
the "roof" but the soffet vents allow cold air into that space
so the pipes might be exposed directly to the cold.
This may not be too expensive to fix, especially since my father
is a contractor and could help me with the work.
Karen
|
198.377 | Vent Stack Space Exterior Wall | NEMAIL::COLVIN | | Wed Feb 03 1993 13:14 | 28 |
| Karen,
You are probably on the right track looking for insulation problems
from the space over the kitchen. Usually there is a plumbing chase
framed between those two toilets to allow space for the plumbing vent
stack to rise to the roof. This is usually about 6-12 inches deep and
the water supply lines for those toilets probably paas through it. The
chase is walled off from the house heat because it is enclosed and if
it is not insulated well from an outside exposure the temperature
inside it may get cold enough to to freeze those supply lines during
really cold weather. Since part of the chase's exposed wall is into the
"dead space" it means there is no siding there and if there is a gap in
the sheathing (or no sheathing) and a gap in the insulation (likely
since most contractors do a sloppy job of insulating) then it will be
open to outside air temperatures. The only real check would be to gain
access to the dead space and check the main house wall. Your proposed
inspection method may confirm the presence of insulation and sheathing
AT THAT SPOT, but will not find their absence someplace else on the
exterior wall of the chase.
One thing which may be a temporary help. That vent stack usually rises
from the soil pipe in the basement. Plumbers usually hack out holes for
the stack (into the chase from below) that are usually twice the size
needed. If you have a reasonably warm basement, make sure the entry to
the chase (around the vent stack) is not covered and sometimes warm air
rising up the chase may be enough to keep it from freezing.
Larry
|
198.529 | Help! for Humming House | JULIET::MEYER_ED | | Wed Feb 10 1993 19:22 | 4 |
| Help, my house is humming? Any ideas? Seems like it occurs right
after I use a toilet.
...>AJ
|
198.530 | Feeling Good? | SANFAN::KAPLAN_AA | | Wed Feb 10 1993 23:22 | 1 |
| Maybe the house feels better...
|
198.531 | That's why Hummingbirds, hum... | NEWPRT::NEWELL_JO | Jodi Newell - Irvine CA | Thu Feb 11 1993 00:45 | 6 |
| <<< Note 4873.0 by JULIET::MEYER_ED >>>
-< Help! for Humming House >-
> Help, my house is humming? Any ideas?
It doesn't know the words? :^)
|
198.532 | Comity Club II | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Thu Feb 11 1993 10:03 | 12 |
|
....I think it sounds something like a waltz tempo.......
You might try checking the main vent pipe. I might be loose
in the wall or have somekind of blockage or break?????
....eather that you neighbor has taken up playing one of thoes
Swiss Alpine horns??????????
JD
|
198.533 | | 11SRUS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Thu Feb 11 1993 11:32 | 6 |
| re: .0
Do you have a well or municipal water? Does the house hum when any other
water is running (DW, laundry, shower, etc.)?
-Jack
|
198.534 | Hot Water Heater | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Feb 11 1993 11:32 | 10 |
| My house has a similar problem. When the upstairs cold water shuts off
quick (i.e.toliet fills), the cold water pipes sometimes vibrate around
100 Hz. I traced the problem to the electric hot water heater. There
is no cold water backflow preventer on the feed line, and when the
cold water is shut off quick, a resonance is established in the pipes
with the hot water tank supplying the energy. Solution? Install
the cold water one way valve that should have been installed by the
licensed plumber. Next time....DIY.
Marc H.
|
198.535 | In-tank valve? | WILBRY::ASCHNEIDER | Andy Schneider - DTN 264-5515 | Thu Feb 11 1993 15:51 | 10 |
| Could also be the shut-off valve inside the toilet isn't
closing all the way, or doesn't have a good seal in
general. I've duplicated a similar sound when adjusting the
float in our toilet and playing with the valve, holding
it just short of fully-closed. Take the cover off of
the tank and listen after a flush to see if the sound's louder
in there.
andy
|
198.383 | Replacing/fixing shutoffs for toilet | ASDG::SBILL | | Wed May 26 1993 16:42 | 14 |
|
I looked up in the toilet section of the main directory and didn't find
a note about replacing/fixing the shutoff valve for a toilet. So here
goes...Well I've finally got my toilet problem licked after a lot of
head scratching, some $$$ and a lot of groans from the pain in my back,
I finally won the battle. But now after all that turning on and off of
the shutoff valve, it has started to leak profusely when it is turned
on. It looks like the old valve just unscrews (I can see the threads
behind the valve) but before I go ahead and try to unscrew it (yes, I
WILL remember to shut off the water going to the valve) I'd like some
pointers on what I might expect to find. Also, when I put on the new
valve, should I use plumbers' tape?
Steve
|
198.384 | I think you just got lucky | CADSYS::HECTOR::RICHARDSON | | Wed May 26 1993 16:58 | 15 |
| If the shutoff valve unscrews, you can probably buy a replacement for
it at the hardware store. I've never had to do the one on the toilet,
but after a bunch of bathroom sink repairs, we had to replace both of
the ones for the sink, and they did NOT unscrew. What we ended up
doing was soldering in couplings and replacing the valves with ones
that DO screw on. The shutoff valves aren't made to be used very
often, it seems, and this way when they start leaking, they will be
easy to replace! (We tried repacking the old ones first, but that
didn't completely stop the leaks either.) I should look at the shutoff
on the toilet and see if it unscrews...
Start on this job early Saturday morning, before the local plumbing
supply place opens, in case it gets to be more involved than you
think... but it is probably a simple job (lucky you!).
/Charlotte
|
198.385 | | CTHQ::DELUCO | Addicted to second-hand smoke | Wed May 26 1993 22:31 | 24 |
| I just replaced one and they really are a snap (sorry, no pun intended)
to replace. I believe the replacement valve is a standard size. You
could probably just go to a hardware store and pick up a toilet shutoff
valve before you do the job. You can do it two ways. You can replace
just the front of the valve, with the shutoff knob on it...or you can
replace the whole thing, with the connector that goes to the toilet
water supply. They don't sell just the front part. You'll need to
buy the whole piece. Yes you should use plumbers tape or plumbers
putty. Just be carefull not to break a pipe as you're trying to
remove the old valve, and don't over-tighten the new one.
Look's kinda like this....
| | <--water supply to toilet
__ | | ---
|_______| |_ | |
| \__| |
|___________/--| | <--shutoff knob
-- | |
---
Jim
|
198.386 | I think I've got it fixed... | ASDG::SBILL | | Thu May 27 1993 11:52 | 24 |
|
Well, I did it last night. I had to borrow a wrench from a neighbor
because I only had one pair of vice grips (to hold the pipe and keep it
from turning). The old one was really on there but I managed to take it
off without incident, but on my first try the pipe did turn a bit while
I was turning the valve. I did have to put the new valve on twice
though. It kept leaking so I took it off, put on more teflon tape and
then put it back on. After that, I just kept on tightening it until it
stopped leaking. The other problem I had was with the front of the
valve where the knob goes in, after I got the initial leak stopped, it
started leaking, So I've been tightening it a little at a time to get
that leak stopped. I put a small paper cup underneath the valve overnight to
catch any water that might have leaked out and it had maybe a quarter
of an inch in it this morning when I woke up. So I tightened it a
little more and checked it about a half hour later and it hadn't leaked
yet. Now that I'm done with that part, I've got to replace the new
flapper that I just put on because my wife doesn't like the way it
flushes since I replaced it (you have to hold the handle down until
it's finished flushing or else it'll close and stop flushing).
Fortunately, I've found a way to fix the old flapper so that it should
work. Apparently, you can get a new rubber seat for it. Anyway, thanks
for you help.
Steve
|
198.387 | | BRAT::REDZIN::DCOX | | Thu May 27 1993 14:20 | 12 |
| Although teflon tape is easy to use and does a good job, for hard to
get at places, I use a "goopy" form of Plumber's compound that expands
when it gets wet. It also does a very good job on "slip" fittings on
drian pipes.
You can get a small can of the "goop" to put on threads. Although
"goop" is a generic term, your hardware store will know what brand to
recommend.
FWIW,
Dave
|
198.388 | Just pull your chain. | XK120::SHURSKY | If you're not lead dog, the view never changes. | Fri May 28 1993 17:05 | 8 |
| re: .3
The flapper timing can be adjusted by adjusting the length of the chain
that runs to the handle. You should be able to find a link that will not
require holding the handle down. I think your chain needs to be shorter.
Just dicker with before you buy a new one. They do cost about $1.19! :-)
Stan
|
198.389 | My toilet's alive!!! (or at least making funny noises) | DANGER::ASKETH | | Thu Aug 19 1993 18:29 | 18 |
| I was woken up twice last night by my toilet! Out of nowhere it made this loud
sorta of squeal/woosh type sound. It was much louder than a normal flush (the
toilet is across the hall from my bedroom - maybe 10 feet away). I got out of
bed as fast as I could but couldn't catch it "in the act". I took the top of
the tank off both times and there was some slight movement in the water but not
a whole lot (course I don't know what led up to this sound as i was asleep so
there could've been more water movement that settled down before I got to it).
I'm guessing there's some kind of leak somewhere. I'm gonna put food coloring
in the tank tonight to see if it leaks into the bowl. The first time it had
been maybe one hour since the toilet had last been flushed and there was no
running after the flush. The second time was about 4 hours later and there was
no flush in between. The sound only last for, I dunno, maybe 30 seconds
(course, again, i was asleep so that could be a distorted guess).
Anyone have any ideas as to what is going on?
Thanks!
Barb
|
198.390 | Maybe.., | DELNI::EYRING | | Thu Aug 19 1993 20:35 | 3 |
| Ghosts??
|
198.391 | Floating problem?? | RT95::CASAGRANDE | | Fri Aug 20 1993 02:03 | 7 |
| Sounds to me like the tank is slowly leaking into the bowl
and then the float gets low enough to fill it back up a
little. Could the squeal be the float shutting off the
water valve as it tops off the tank??
Wayne
|
198.392 | | NACAD::NISKALA | When will it all end? | Fri Aug 20 1993 11:55 | 2 |
| Better ask Dave Barry of the Miami Herald, he's written a few
articles of animal/snake infested toilets...
|
198.393 | 8-) | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Free Stupidity Screening $5 | Fri Aug 20 1993 13:06 | 5 |
| Also, Dave Barry ("Homes and other Black Holes") has written about the
fact that plumbing fixtures form consortia and converse so that they
can be sure they all fail at the worst possible moment.
...tom
|
198.394 | move the handle on toilet to try to readjust drain | SHARE::MILES | | Fri Aug 20 1993 16:43 | 10 |
| I have the same problem sometimes with my toilet. If you listen very
carefully you'll hear a quiet trickling of water....someone told me
that's the water leaking as .1 or .2 said through the drain. When the
water level gets low enough it, it fills back up sounding like you just
flushed it or something.
I just move the handle a bit to try and get the drain to fit more
tightly. It seems to work most of the time.
Michele (never claiming to be a plumber)
|
198.395 | | SPESHR::MONDOU | | Fri Aug 20 1993 16:58 | 7 |
| Easy method to see if the tank is leaking into the bowl is to
add a couple drops of food coloring into the tank, wait about
15 minutes to see if the color works it's way into the bowl.
I guess I should say this works best with clear water in the
tank - but, that should be obvious.
|
198.396 | "flapper" | WEDOIT::DEROSA | no struggle...no strength | Mon Aug 23 1993 17:12 | 4 |
|
Sounds like the problem I had. Turned out that is was just a
bad "flapper valve". Any hardware store should have one.
/bd
|
198.397 | Jes' kidding in the second paragraph. | MANTHN::EDD | Kraftwerk, Unplugged | Mon Aug 23 1993 17:29 | 6 |
| The problem with all the "slow leak" theories is there wouldn't be a
loud noise, just a continuous sound of a tank slowly filling.
No, I think there's a large snake in the tank.
Edd
|
198.398 | Just some roaming pebbles... | DANGER::ASKETH | | Mon Aug 23 1993 17:56 | 25 |
| WEll, no snakes or ghosts...
I did the food coloring thing but didn't see any leak through (though the water
at the time was green from my tidy bowl stuff - I used red coloring but it still
wouldn't be as obvious as with clear water. Never got around to doing it with
clear.) It did it once Sat. afternoon and I got to the toilet in time to see
(and hear) that it was in fact refilling. And at times since then I've heard
the trickle of water. It isn't happening regularly wish leads me to this con-
clusion...the previous owner had put this tub of pebbles in (I guess for dis-
placement?) and some of them have ended up on the bottom of the tank. Becasue
it isn't happening regularly I think at times a pebble is getting caught under
the flapper and causing the leak. I havne't had a chance to get them all out
of there but have pushed them out of the way.
And I guess it seemed so loud cause it was in the middle of the night and (a)
I'm in a very quiet neighborhood and (b) being half asleep my judgement was
probably off. The toilet does also have this squeal right as it starts to fill
which would be relatively loud in the middle of the night. ;-)
When it didn't happen at all the following evening I thought maybe it really
was a ghost that wanted to keep waking me up in the middle of the night...;-)
Just some roaming pebbles though...
Thanks for the help
Barb
|
198.399 | Now if everybody did this... | STRATA::CASSIDY | | Tue Aug 24 1993 04:45 | 9 |
| The following is a conservation plug: If you'd like to replace
the pebbles (displace/save water), you can fill a glass bottle with
water and place that inside the tank. The bottle should have a
plastic cap, so's it wont rust.
Some of the older toilet tanks dump up to 5 gallons per flush.
New tanks usually use only 1.5 to 1.6 GPF. A quart sized bottle
will save ~500 gallons of water per year with negligable impact on
flush quality.
Tim
|
198.400 | Flapper valve seat! | WOODRO::THOMS | Ross 285-3151 | Tue Aug 24 1993 11:54 | 5 |
| I had the same problem a year or so back. The flapper ball would lose it's seal
and the tank would empty (partially) and refill. I really noticed this at night.
A new flapper ball did little to fix the problem, but grinding the flapper seat
did fix the problem. I used some emery cloth to clean up the seat, but there
is a special tool for this.
|
198.401 | Truly rust-free! | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Free Stupidity Screening $5 | Fri Aug 27 1993 15:49 | 5 |
| Re: alternate displacement method -
Why would you need a cap on the bottle at all?
...tom
|
198.402 | To keep out life | ASIMOV::CHALTAS | What about Naomi? | Fri Aug 27 1993 16:32 | 2 |
| Because the bottle will hold stagnant water, which will become home
to all sorts of undesirable organisms.
|
198.403 | | SSGV02::ANDERSEN | Figures lie and liars figure. | Fri Aug 27 1993 20:52 | 2 |
|
Use a brick or 2.
|
198.404 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Mon Aug 30 1993 13:34 | 1 |
| Bricks are considered bad because they disintegrate.
|
198.405 | | MILPND::J_TOMAO | | Mon Aug 30 1993 14:13 | 5 |
| Never use bricks! They will clog up all your plumbing. If you don;t
want to spring for a $3.00 displacement barrier the next best thing is
to use a glass bottle with an all plastic cap as stated earlier.
Joyce
|
198.406 | Anything but steel... | ESKIMO::CASSIDY | | Tue Aug 31 1993 05:01 | 5 |
| And then I realised that many caps are made of aluminum. I
think an aluminum cap would last just as well as a plastic one.
Tim
|
198.407 | Toilet flushing problem | CAPECD::HOLLAND | | Thu Sep 23 1993 14:57 | 18 |
|
I've got two toilets, both on different floors (2nd and 3rd floor)
which both don't flush properly. Sometimes you need to flush em many
times before they are "clean", they seem to fill ok, just empty
poorly
These are 7 years old, and house is 7 years old, and I use a septic
system.
Advice from a plumber is that both toilets were bad and needed to
be replaced...
Any advice or opinions?
Thanks
Ken
|
198.408 | | JUPITR::HILDEBRANT | I'm the NRA | Thu Sep 23 1993 15:32 | 3 |
| Check the fill level in the tank. Sounds low.
Marc H.
|
198.409 | | STAR::DZIEDZIC | | Thu Sep 23 1993 18:03 | 5 |
| Other possibility is build-up of mineral deposits in the holes
under the rim of the bowl; that will affect flushing action.
I saw someone use muriatic acid down the overflow tube to clean
out the built-up lime and etc.; there's probably a safer method
(like reaming the holes out with a coat hanger).
|
198.410 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Sep 23 1993 18:06 | 4 |
| A coat hanger is not a good idea - it can scratch the porcelain and cause
other problems. A pipe cleaner might do the trick.
Steve
|
198.411 | Septic tank? | STAR::DIPIRRO | | Fri Sep 24 1993 15:18 | 3 |
| What's the condition of your septic system? Have you had it pumped
or checked the tank recently? If it's full or if the sewage lines from
the house out to the tank are clogged, you'll see similar symptoms.
|
198.412 | | CAPECD::HOLLAND | | Mon Sep 27 1993 14:51 | 6 |
|
Not sure condition of septic system, but will have it pumped
also, this is an intermitent problem sometimes they flush fine
|
198.413 | could be the brand | ICS::STUART | | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:43 | 12 |
|
Are they Mansfield toilets ??
We're in our 2nd new house and this seems to be the brand of choice
for builders cause they're cheap ! (in more ways than one)
My plumber says it's their design, I had one that flushed properly
50% of the time and replaced it with an American Standard and it
flushes properly everytime.
my 2 cents
|
198.414 | | SOLVIT::CHACE | My favorite season is getting nearer! | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:44 | 12 |
|
If the toilet on the thrid floor flushes poorly and the one on the
second floor doesn't overflow, then its not likely to be your septic
system.
It could be the water level in the tank, it could be a clogged vent.
Perhaps a bird's nest in it or such.
You should pump the tank every two years, especially if you have
more thana couple of people in the house.
Kenny
|
198.415 | | IVOS02::NEWELL_JO | Jodi Newell - Irvine, CA. | Mon Sep 27 1993 20:07 | 16 |
| >My plumber says it's their design, I had one that flushed properly
>50% of the time and replaced it with an American Standard and it
>flushes properly everytime.
What do you do if you already have American Standard and the
plumber says the design is bad?
Ours have never flushed properly. They are 12 years old and
I think we can finally justify the cost of replacing them.
We just don't know which brands to trust. The only design we
like so far is one of the Eljers but the toilet seat was a
squarish design so seats have to be special ordered.
Who makes reliable and reasonable white porcelain toilets?
Jodi-
|
198.416 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Sep 27 1993 20:11 | 8 |
| Consumer Reports did a study a few years ago of toilets and reported that
many low-water-usage models had flushing problems. They found that a
Universal-Rundle model sold by Sears performed the best.
I've had pretty good luck overall with the Eljer "Emblem", but not in
a <2GPF model.
Steve
|
198.417 | a Royal Flush??? | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Tue Sep 28 1993 10:37 | 5 |
|
Gee, I see Grossmans has the 1.5gal U-R on sale for $80 this
week. eljer is also a good brand.....
|
198.418 | Try Kohler | WMOIS::SANTORO | | Tue Sep 28 1993 16:04 | 8 |
| You could also consider Kohler. I just renovated our bathroom and the
toilet was a Kohler. It was 19 years old. The house has serious
iron/manganese levels so I figured it would be safe to just get a new
one but after cleaning it up, and installing a new ballcock it looks and
performs like brand new.
The new ones we priced seemed more expensive than the Eljer and American
Standard but may be worth the extra money.
|
198.419 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Sep 28 1993 16:15 | 15 |
| Don't try to infer performance of modern, low-water-usage toilets based
on experience with older models of the same brand. The new low-usage
toilets just don't flush as well as those which used 5-9 gallons of water
per flush! But some do work better than others, so it helps to do some
research. Even within a brand (and even a model name!), there are
variations.
The best performing low-usage toilets have something to give an "extra oomph"
to the stream. Some jet water directly towards the outlet, some use compressed
air (pressurized by the water feed).
Also, one-piece toilets often don't work as well as two-piece, due to the
water level in the tank being closer to that in the bowl.
Steve
|
198.420 | | IVOS02::NEWELL_JO | Jodi Newell - Irvine, CA. | Tue Sep 28 1993 19:11 | 22 |
| >But some do work better than others, so it helps to do some
>research. Even within a brand (and even a model name!), there are
>variations.
How in the world are you going to test toilets? Every display
I've ever seen show non-functional toilets lined up either on
the floor, or worse, up on a warehouse shelf some 6-8 feet up.
As a Californian, I should really consider a low-usage for water
conservation but if it doesn't perform any better that the piece
of cr*p I've put up with for the last 14 years, that what's the
point? My toilets work so poorly that we could never consider
using cloth diapers on the kids because generally they require a
quick drop in the toilet for cleaning. Our toilets barely get the
toilet paper down, flushing the crud off a nasty diaper wouldn't
have worked at all.
How *do you* research these kinds of products without them being
set up in a real environment? You can't return them if you don't
like how they flush (can you?).
Jodi-
|
198.421 | Not a direct test, but at least an opinion... | NOVA::SWONGER | Rdb Software Quality Engineering | Tue Sep 28 1993 19:13 | 7 |
| > How in the world are you going to test toilets?
Consumer reports had an issue on water-saving devices (toilers,
shower heads, etc.) a couple of months back. Your local library
surely has a copy.
Roy
|
198.422 | Should be in Flushing NY | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Tue Sep 28 1993 19:20 | 3 |
| At Stevens Institute in Hoboken NJ there's a building referred to as
"The Tower of Toilets." From what I've been told, it's a multi-story
building with lots of live plumbing fixtures.
|
198.423 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Sep 28 1993 20:03 | 11 |
| As I mentioned earlier, Consumer Reports did a test on toilets, especially
regarding their flushing action. No, you can't generally try out the
display models in the store.
To make matters worse, manufacturers "improve" their products, sometimes
without any outward indication. I bought two Eljer Emblem toilets a few
months apart. They had different bowl designs and different water usage
(neither was a "water saver" model.) Curiously, the newer version used
MORE water!
Steve
|
198.424 | | 16BITS::DELBALSO | I (spade) my (dog face) | Tue Sep 28 1993 21:22 | 22 |
| re: .0, Ken
> Advice from a plumber is that both toilets were bad and needed to
> be replaced...
Um - did you expect something else from a plumber's advice?
re: .6
>My plumber says it's their design, I had one that flushed properly
>50% of the time
Are we talking design of the fixture or design of the plumbing mechanism
(Valve/ballcock/etc.) If the former, I'd think that the performance of
the porcelain fixture without moving parts should be pretty consistent
so I don't know how the design could be flawed unless it never worked
right or is subject to frequent clogging of the ports. If the latter,
there have got to be at least half a dozen variants of the guts that
you can buy at most home supply stores - some better than others - which
should enable you to find a setup that works well with the appliance.
-Jack
|
198.425 | continuing the SIT rathole . . . | CONSLT::DALRYMPLE | | Wed Sep 29 1993 01:51 | 11 |
| re: .15 Digital sent me to Stevens Institute of Technology to work
with their "Design and Manufacturing Institute." Sure enough, right
on the shore of the Hudson River is a ten(?) story building maybe
20 feet wide by 60-80 feet long with the only access being what
resembled a fire escape on the outside. It was apparently built at the
behest of a grant that was funded to study the effects of multiple
concurrent flushes in skyscrapers (no one could remember if it was a
government funded project or not). In any case, we were told that its
nickname was "Big John."
David
|
198.378 | Solution to freezing pipe problem (hopefully!)... | CALS::HEALEY | M&ES, MRO4, 297-2426 | Thu Oct 07 1993 16:49 | 67 |
|
Hi folks,
Well, we finally did something about the frozen pipe problem
that I described in .20. Of course I don't know yet if the
fix worked...
Here is a sketch of the house with the two bathrooms that
are involved. So you don't have to read .20 again, in summary,
the two toilets and one sink freeze... the other sink, tub and
shower have no problem. The * marks where I think the pipes
come up from the basement.
/----------------------------
/ |
/ dead space |
---------------------------------------------------------------
| | sink |
| | | garage
| toilet| | roof
| |toilet |
|tub | |
---- ---- |
| | |
| | |
| sink| |
* | * |shower |
<--------------- ------------- -|
V
Side view (dead space is a little roof with soffet vents):
^ Note: DS = dead space
| | = 1 foot height
|
/|
/ |
/ | bathrooms on
/ DS | second floor
|-------------------------------
|
| kitchen on first floor
|
V
The dead space is about 4 feet high and 5 feet deep.
What we did is cut a hole through the bathroom wall into the
deadspace. What we found is the "floor" of the deadspace had
plywood and so did the back wall. We couldn't see any pipes
in the deadspace so we cut a hole through the floor and fished
around and still couldn't find pipes. We just don't know where
they are! Anyhow, the only insulation was 4" in the floor and
in the wall. None in the roof and the dead space was pretty
cold since the soffet vents let air in (you can see daylight).
Sooooo... we jammed the soffet vents with insulation, then
insulated (6") the roof of the deadspace. We think that the 4"
insulation was just not enough and with the cold air circulating
in that area, that is why the pipes froze. We'll find out
once we have a bitterly cold day.
Anyhow, if the pipes do freeze, the have a door into the
deadspace now so we can put a mini heater.
Karen
|
198.379 | | MANTHN::EDD | Look out fellas, it's shredding time... | Fri Oct 08 1993 15:38 | 6 |
| You blocked the soffit vents?
They provide ventilation so you don't trap moisture and have rot
problems...
Edd
|
198.380 | Careful of those vents... | GNPIKE::SMITH | Peter H. Smith,297-6345,TSEG/DECfbe | Mon Oct 11 1993 12:09 | 2 |
| I'm looking at a complete roof replacement (including joists) because
a previous owner blocked the soffit vents...
|
198.381 | father knows best... | CALS::HEALEY | M&ES, MRO4, 297-2426 | Tue Oct 12 1993 15:05 | 9 |
|
re: .23, .24...
My father has built houses for 25 years.... I assume he knew what he was
suggesting. Besides, they are only blocked with insulation so some air
movement is still possible. In addition, there is now a trap door into
that space.
Karen
|
198.382 | May take awhile but.... | VICKI::DODIER | Cars suck, then they die | Tue Oct 12 1993 16:26 | 23 |
| I can't help but comment on how different the last few notes have
strayed from the title. I had to go back a couple notes just to make
sure someone didn't accidently reply to the wrong note :-)
In the spirit of tying this back to the original note, rather than
insulate the space with the pipes from the outside, why not just put some
pipe insulation on, or better yet, relocate the pipes ? Having a trap door
from the inside simply allows even more moisture to reach and condense in
this space, especially in a bathroom.
They sell special channels that run in the rafters that are
specifically made so that insulation does not restrict air-flow to the
soffit vents. Blocking a soffit vent with anything other than a
bug/critter screen is not a recommended thing to do. It is especially
likely to cause damage if you have wafer (chip) board roof sheathing.
Karen, I know I'm treading on thin ice by going against what your
father told you with his experience and all, but I can't think of any
gentler way to suggest that you verify what we're telling you with someone
else in the carpentry field. A simple call to Home Depot, H.Q., or a
similar place would be simple and cheap peace of mind.
Ray
|
198.426 | not just pullin' your chain..... | BUSY::JWHITTEMORE | Carp Perdiem | Sat Nov 13 1993 16:49 | 30 |
| >
> I've got two toilets, both on different floors (2nd and 3rd floor)
> which both don't flush properly. Sometimes you need to flush em many
> times before they are "clean", they seem to fill ok, just empty
> poorly
>
Ken `et 'all
I watched this thread with interest as the house we bought a couple o' months
ago has one of two baths with a "sluggish" toilet. 50% of the time if you
don't hold the handle down through the full flush cycle the bowl would only
half empty.
The other day I finally got to looking into the problem and here's how I
believe I "fixed" it;
Inside the tank there's a "ballcock" (or some such name) that's connected to
the handle by a length of bead chain. The ballcock (looks like an old
fashioned bicycle pump type insect sprayer of sorts) gets lifted to a vertical
position by the chain / handle and doesn't fall back down until the tank's
nearly empty - this provides the majority of the "flush". In this particular
toilet the chain was a bit too long and as soon as you let go of the flush
handle the ballcock would fall back down 'cause it had never been pulled full
vertical.
I adjusted the chain length and have had no problems for a week now.....
- jw
|
198.427 | | IVOS02::NEWELL_JO | Graphically Yours | Tue Nov 16 1993 16:34 | 19 |
| I mentioned in an earlier reply that we have had problems with
our toilets flushing since we bought our house new. Bad design
the plummers told us. They must have been right :^) because we
now have a new 1.6 gal Kohler and it works great.
Our community had an offer we couldn't pass up. They had several
hundred brand new (still in the box) toilets that they would give
to Irvine residents (one per house) just for the asking. We signed
up and picked up Kohler 1.6 gallon last week and have until this
Saturday to return our old toilet (or we get charged $100). The
toilet is a nice design (kind of European styling). In addition
to our end of the deal, the Irvine school district gets $15 dollars
for every old toilet returned (don't know why and I'm not asking).
Now I'm not so leary of getting another low flush model since this
one works just fine. And apparently beginning Dec. 1st, all toilets
sold in Ca will be 'low flush' design.
Jodi-
|
198.428 | | CSC32::S_BROOK | There and back to see how far it is | Wed Nov 17 1993 13:44 | 9 |
| re .19
The ballcock is the water inlet valve in the toilet ... and originally
comprised a ball float on a long arm conneced to a lever actuated
stop-cock. (Stop-cock being a traditional term for a water valve!)
What you are talking about is the flapper valve.
Stuart
|
198.347 | another apparent vent problem | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Mar 03 1994 16:51 | 24 |
|
This seems like a vent problem, but I'm baffled by it. Any ProAm
plumbers got an idea what's wrong?
I have two bathrooms back-to-back upstairs. Each has a toilet
back-to-back on the same combined waste stack and are on the same vent
stack, which is dead straight.
Trouble is, one flushes like a cyclone while the other is very
slow and does the typical glug-glug-glug that indicates a vent
problem.
There's no problem from either sink, the shower or the bath and
these are all roughly the same distance from the vent stack.
The toilet/sink on the first floor are also OK.
I'm planning on taking the pan up soon to install new vinyl flooring,
so I was wondering if there was anything to check out, apart
from the possibility of a blockage in the 'y'?
Any ideas?
Colin
|
198.348 | flashlighttime! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Mar 04 1994 11:55 | 7 |
|
Its been cold of late. Where the plumbing is located for the
second floor bath might result in a slight bit of ice and snow
in the pipe...???
JD
|
198.349 | could be something to look for | SMURF::WALTERS | | Fri Mar 04 1994 12:18 | 4 |
|
There's a thought. I wonder if an outside air leak could cause some
localized freezing?
|
198.350 | | MANTHN::EDD | I live in a suitcase... | Fri Mar 04 1994 17:12 | 3 |
| What would freeze? The stack is empty...
Edd
|
198.351 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Mar 04 1994 17:17 | 3 |
| I'd be inclined to believe an obstruction in the toilet's trap.
Steve
|
198.352 | The moisture freezes | MIYATA::LEMIEUX | | Mon Mar 07 1994 10:17 | 15 |
| >> What would freeze? The stack is empty...
The moisture in the air going out of the vent frosts up the inside of the vent
when it's cold. I've seen the small vents (less than 3") frost up so bad that
all that was left was a little tiny hole a 1/4" or so left. Plumbing
codes in cold places like Alaska address this problem by not allowing vents
to be smaller than a certain size....3" if I remember correctly. It's not
hard to adhere to even if you only have a 2" stack for a sink or whatever, all
you have to do is use a reducer in the attic and go from 2" to 3" and out
through the roof flange.
Also make sure your vent isn't completely buried in the snow.
Later
Paul
|
198.353 | | MANTHN::EDD | I live in a suitcase... | Mon Mar 07 1994 10:55 | 9 |
| ...but if the inside of the vent was frosting up, it seems that *both*
bathrooms would be affected, not just one.
I'd follow the advice of -.something_or_other; pull the malfunctioning
toilet up and look for an obstruction in it. You'll also be able to get
an idea of what's in the soil pipe before it joins the "common"
plumbing.
Edd
|
198.354 | thanks for suggestions | SMURF::WALTERS | | Mon Mar 07 1994 11:59 | 7 |
|
Thanks for the ideas - I did check the roof, the vent is clear. The
problem has abated a bit during the recent warmer weather. I'll get
around to taking out the unit sometime this week.
Colin
|
198.355 | holes plugged?? | ROYALT::LAMPROS | | Fri Mar 11 1994 14:08 | 8 |
|
Check to see if the holes around the inside rim of the toilet bowl that
allow water to fill the toilet bowl are not plugged. I had a simular
problem and used a coathanger to unplug the corrosion around the holes.
The problem was the toilet bowl wasn't getting enough water fast enough
to flush the toilet quickly. Check yours out. Mine flushes great now.
Bill
|
198.429 | Kohler Toilet -Recommended? | ISLNDS::WHITMORE | | Thu Apr 14 1994 14:46 | 16 |
| We were all set to buy a Kohler 'Wellworth Lite' 1.6 gallon toilet this
weekend when the plumber told us that the lady at his supply house (who
doesn't sell Kohler, BTW) said that they've been hearing that people
are having problems with the Kohler low water toilets. It sounds like
griping to me because she's not getting the business, but.....
One of the features of this renovation was to be a toilet that REALLY
REALLY flushes, considering the one we have now (an Eljer) simply
swirls the stuff around. A bad toilet will cause domestic tribulations
I'd rather not have to face.
Anyone have personal experiences to relate on their Kohler 1.6 gal
toilets? Good or bad?
Thanks,
Dana
|
198.430 | Check Consumer Reports | CADSYS::RITCHIE | Gotta love log homes | Thu Apr 14 1994 15:19 | 6 |
| We have universal rundle, top rated by Consumer Reports, and we have had
absolutely no problems with it.
FWIW.
Elaine
|
198.431 | | LEZAH::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Thu Apr 14 1994 17:04 | 5 |
| According to a plumber (who may or may not know what he's talking
about) low-volume toilets frequently have trouble if the waste
line is not really straight and open. He said they work best
with plastic pipe, with a straight drop. (For what it's worth,
which may not be much....)
|
198.432 | consumer reports | KALI::FERGUSON | | Thu Apr 14 1994 17:09 | 6 |
| Go to the library and check consumer reports. I don't remember the
issue - maybe up to a year ago. They did a study on low-volume
toilets - some were much better than others. We had a kohler
rialto in our last house. Seemed to be OK, but boy was it LOUD.
Janice
|
198.433 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Apr 14 1994 17:52 | 3 |
| The Consumer Reports article was at least three if not four years ago.
Steve
|
198.434 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Thu Apr 14 1994 18:40 | 1 |
| So what did CR use as standardized test material?
|
198.435 | No problems with ours | NOVA::SWONGER | DBS Software Quality Engineering | Thu Apr 14 1994 18:42 | 6 |
| We have had a Wellworth Lite for over a year now. No problems
whatsoever, and it's not particularly loud. I recall reading the
Consumer Reports article on low-flow toilets, and Kohler was one of
the top 3, if memory serves.
Roy
|
198.436 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Apr 14 1994 18:57 | 6 |
| Re: .5
Canned dog food was one ingredient. Their description of the test material
was rather interesting.
Steve
|
198.437 | here boy! | ELWOOD::DYMON | | Fri Apr 15 1994 11:18 | 5 |
|
re:
Hummmmm? was the dog food out of the can or the dog???
Gurrrrrrrrrrrr.....
|
198.438 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Apr 15 1994 13:14 | 3 |
| re .8:
If the latter, was it a Chihuahua or a St. Bernard?
|
198.439 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Fri Apr 15 1994 13:42 | 5 |
| We just installed an AMerican Standard, elongated bowl, 1.6 toilet
in our bath. Its only been online for about three weeks, but it
seems to work fine. (They are much more quiet, too)
Anyone know how AS rated?
|
198.440 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Fri Apr 15 1994 16:25 | 6 |
| You can't go by brand name - individual models behave very differently.
CU liked one particular U-R model, but I don't think it's even available
anymore. Besides, the design of low-flow toilets has changed in the past
three-four years since CU did their survey.
Steve
|
198.441 | no? | VAXUUM::T_PARMENTER | Unsung Superstar | Mon Apr 18 1994 13:45 | 2 |
| low-flow=flush twice
|
198.442 | | NOVA::SWONGER | DBS Software Quality Engineering | Mon Apr 18 1994 13:54 | 22 |
| > -< no? >-
>
> low-flow=flush twice
No. Our 1.5-gallon flush toilet (The Kohler Wellworth Lite
previously mentioned) works just fine. The design of a GOOD low
water usage toilet should include things to dispose of waste with
less water; such as
- steeper sides to the bowl
- a tanks that holds 5-8 gallons, but releases only a fraction of
that per flush (so that you still have the same amount of water
pressure)
- designs in the exit pipes to pass the waste more easily
BTW, that's one reason why putting a brick (or plastic jug of water,
or water-saving flush valve) in a conventional toiler to decrease the
water volume doesn't work so well. The toilet wasn't designed for a
lower flow of water, so you can't get anywhere near the savings of a
low-flow toilet, if you want the same efficiency.
Roy
|
198.443 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Mon Apr 18 1994 15:30 | 2 |
| In Israel, where water is scarce, some toilets have two handles, one for a
partial flush and one for a full flush. No, they're not labeled #1 and #2.
|
198.444 | | CSOA1::BACH | They who know nothing, doubt nothing... | Mon Apr 18 1994 17:31 | 15 |
| Yeah, the one we have has a plastic bucket inside the tank with holes
on the bottom. The water retained in the tank fills back into these
holes after the flush water is drained out of the large hole in the
center of the tank.
I almost took the plastic inner tank out when we installed it last
weekend, as I thought it was some type of packing device. That would
have been a major bummer! Anyway, it seems to work great, it uses less
water, and take less time to refill.
It seems much more quiet, also.
Regards,
Chip
|
198.445 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Mon Apr 18 1994 18:43 | 7 |
| There are some dual-mode flush toilets for sale in the US and I've seen
a "conversion kit" you can use to retrofit existing toilets.
My family uses a time-honored method of saving water used in toilets:
"If it's yellow, let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down".
Steve
|
198.446 | | LEEL::LINDQUIST | | Tue Apr 19 1994 12:03 | 9 |
198.447 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Apr 19 1994 13:26 | 4 |
| An addendum to the rule for our family is that it doesn't apply outside our
home or when company is visiting...
Steve
|
198.448 | | HOCUS::RHODES | | Tue Apr 19 1994 18:51 | 2 |
| So when unexpected company arrives, Do you make a mad dash through the
house flushing????
|
198.449 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Wed Apr 20 1994 01:05 | 5 |
| Re: .19
Well, we've only got two toilets, so it's not that big a deal... :-)
Steve
|
198.450 | Square is bad... | STRATA::CASSIDY | | Wed Apr 20 1994 09:13 | 12 |
| To change the subject... beware designer toilets! We have one
that's squarish, as opposed to your basic oval shape. It's worked
very well except on one occasion. Something rather large (ahem)
became lodged in the trap.
With your normal oval toilet, this would have been a quick job
with a plunger. Unfortunately, the round plunger doesn't make a
seal in the corners with the squared design of the toilet. What
mess!
Then there's the fact that standard toilet seat covers wont fit
well over the non-standard shape of the bowl.
Tim
|
198.451 | We like our Kohler | PROGID::allen | Christopher Allen, DEC COBOL, ZKO 381-0864 | Mon Apr 25 1994 17:01 | 6 |
| We have a Kohler low-flow toilet which works just fine. It is loud, but that's
the sound of the pressurized flush. There's no problem with stuff getting down.
-Chris
|
198.452 | Water Saver Toilet and Pipe to Septic | SALEM::MUNROER | Becca Munroe | Wed Dec 07 1994 12:25 | 12 |
| re .2) I just installed a 1.6 Gallon toilet (the only kind available),
and within a week the line out to the septic tank was clogged with
paper. There is one 45-degree turn (PVC pipe) between two 9' lengths
of pipe. I had the tank pumped and found the paper. I think the
low-vol toilet may not provide adequate pressure through the pipe to
purge it.
Any ideas how to prevent this from happening again (aside from less
paper?).
Thanks!!!!!!
--Becca
|
198.453 | single ply | VLNVAX::CHRISTENSEN | | Fri Dec 09 1994 11:27 | 2 |
| I had a friend in NH that had this problem, it was solved by using
single ply tp, instead of double ply. At least this solved his problem.
|
198.454 | Adjust amount of water per flush | 56953::REUTHER | | Fri Dec 09 1994 12:06 | 9 |
| Often there is a mechanism that controls how much of the water in
the tank is used on a flush. Mine have a float on the chain from the
lever to the stopper. Adjusting the height of the float controls how
much water goes out of the tank before the stopper closes. Moving the
float further down toward the stopper means it will float with less water
in the tank, keeping the stopper open longer thereby providing more water
per flush. Check and see if yours has this float and if so try moving
it down.
|
198.455 | baffel? | VLNVAX::CHRISTENSEN | | Fri Dec 09 1994 12:38 | 6 |
| It it's a new water saver it will most likly have a baffel or dam built
right in that surrounds the flush valve, this is how mine restricts the
output to 1.5 gallons. I needed a bit more volume of water to properly
flush, so a cut was made app 1 inch wide and one inch dowm the side of
the dam till the right water volume was reached. It ended up nearly 2
inches down and about 1 inch wide.
|
198.456 | re .23: flow, not pressure | WRKSYS::SEILER | Larry Seiler | Fri Dec 09 1994 13:39 | 22 |
| re .23: FYI, the line to the septic tank doesn't work by pressure, but
rather by flow. It's supposed to be pitched at 1/4" per foot, so that
the water flows at the right speed to carry wastes along -- too slow
or too fast doesn't work. A 45 degree PVC bend probably would cause
problems with the flow and create a place for things to hang up. A
sweeping bend, rather than a sharp bend, should work better, if there
has to be a bend at all.
Since its no doubt impractical to eliminate the bend or change the
pitch of the pipe (if it's wrong), using more water to flush seems
like the only reasonable solution. I'd suggest that you keep this
issue in mind so that if and when you need to replace that pipe, it
gets done right.
FYI, one of my projects this summer was to replace my main septic pipe.
I discovered that not only was the pitch too steep, and not only did
it sag in places, but it had been laid across the top of a buried
railroad tie! Over time the tar cardboard pipe had crushed against
the tie. No wonder we used to have to get it snaked out every winter.
Regards,
Larry
|
198.457 | | 2516::KILGORE | Survive outsourcing? We'll manage... | Fri Dec 09 1994 13:39 | 3 |
|
Re .26: What material is used for this baffle?
|
198.458 | trying the float | SALEM::MUNROER | Becca Munroe | Fri Dec 09 1994 17:57 | 8 |
| Thanks for the replies--
I'm going to try to move the little float inside the toilet tank down
(looks like a marshmallow). My estimate was that the pipe out to the
septic tank went down about 1/4" per foot.
We'll see! ARRRRG!
--Becca
|
198.459 | Vibrating pipes after flushing toilet. | KAOT01::M_MORIN | A dead mean with the most toys is still a dead man. | Wed Feb 01 1995 18:09 | 21 |
| I have a 2-story house with the bathrooms on the 1st and 2nd floor alligned
along the same area.
When I flush the 2nd-story toilet, after the back-bucket fills up, I hear
a resounding noise throughout the house that lasts about 10 seconds and then
stops on it's own. I can get it to stop sometimes by turning on any cold
water tap in the house, but as soon as I shut it again, it continues.
It sounds like it's pipe-related.
This is happening constantly everytime the 2nd floor toilet is flushed.
The noise is loudest right behind the 1st-floor bathroom toilet wall.
I've had my house 6 years and it's the 1st time this has happened, for about
2-3 weeks now.
Anyone have any clues as to what may be happening here?
Thanks,
/Mario
|
198.460 | Increased water pressure. | TIEFLY::ANDERSEN | | Wed Feb 01 1995 19:43 | 10 |
|
I'll take a stab and suggest the water pressure to your house has
increased. That is typically the problem when your pipes bang when
a flow of water is stopped. This is supported by the fact that when
you relive the pressure, i.e. turn on a facet, the noise stops.
Many environmental factors, out of your control, can effect your
water pressure. You can put a requlator on your water suppy line
to keep the pressure constant.
|
198.461 | Could help... | STRATA::CASSIDY | Tim Cassidy, #365 | Thu Feb 02 1995 09:42 | 7 |
| There may be nipples installed on your plumbing that act as
shock absorbers when the water is shut off suddenly. Over time,
the air in them is displaced by water. To recharge them, you
drain your pipes. I don't know if this will help, but it's not
too difficult to do.
Tim
|
198.462 | flush valve oscillation | TARKIN::BEAVEN | choose something like a star to stay our minds on... | Thu Feb 02 1995 12:30 | 11 |
| That kind of toilet noise that happens just before the water stops
filling the tank is usually do to a loose part in the flush valve - such as
a loose washer. What you get then is a water-powered oscillator. If you
take the top off the tank, flush the toilet and then watch, you may be
able to see the vibration as the water level approaches the point where
the float starts shutting the valve that lets water into the tank.
Hardware stores carry repair parts, or even whole new flush
towers. They have "universal" ones, but toilets come in many sizes
and shapes so those might not fit yours...
Dick
|
198.463 | | KAOFS::B_VANVALKENB | | Mon Feb 06 1995 13:45 | 5 |
| normally cause by bad seats it taps, in a toilet it is most likely
the shut off valve
Brian V
|
198.79 | What machines pump 6.5 feet? | NOVA::MICHON | | Fri Feb 17 1995 19:18 | 12 |
| Time to open this note up again.
Im thinking of moving my washer to the basement.
The drain pipe at that side of the house is 7.5 feet
above the floor. Is this 6.5 feet max hieght for
vertical pumping measured from where the water comes
out of the washer or the floor?
Also I heard the some washers aren't made to pump
up at all. Any clue on how I can tell my pumps
capability? Also can any one recommend a new washer
that is particularly good at pumping.
|
198.80 | | 2063::allen | Christopher Allen, DECladebug, ZKO 381-0864 | Mon Feb 20 1995 11:14 | 9 |
| To find out about yours, you might try the service department at the place where
you bought your washing machine, or call the manufacturer's customer service
department.
About 25 years ago, my dad found that the only washer which could pump that high
was a Maytag.
-Chris
|
198.464 | Toilet water tank sweats! | WRKSYS::SHEN | | Tue Jun 20 1995 17:24 | 6 |
| Does any one have a good idea about what to do with toilet water
tank sweating problem? I have private water.
Thanks.
-Shuhua
|
198.465 | handling the big chill | PASTA::DEMERS | | Tue Jun 20 1995 17:29 | 13 |
| There are a couple of ways...
- You can insulate the tank. I've seen toilet that have
factory-installed insulation, but not sure about after-market.
HD, HQ or equivalent would be the best source.
- You can warm the water. I've heard of mixing valves that combine
hot and cold water before it gets to the tank. Probably a bit
complex and maybe pricey.
- My uncle put a pan under the toilet. The water drips and then
evaporates. He made one (basically a custom "cookie sheet"). Wouldn't
be suprised if you can buy one ready-made.
|
198.466 | | REDZIN::COX | | Tue Jun 20 1995 17:45 | 7 |
| If you are handy enough to do the copper pipe cutting and soldering yourself, a
mixing valve is fairly inexpensive and effective; took me about an hour
including cleanup time. About the only problem is getting the amount of hot
water mix correct when you first install it. A steamy "flush" can be in
interesting experience.
Dave
|
198.467 | possible positive side effect | PASTA::DEMERS | | Tue Jun 20 1995 17:54 | 1 |
| Yea, but is the seat warm in the winter???
|
198.468 | | SHRMSG::BUSKY | | Wed Jun 21 1995 12:10 | 12 |
| > - You can insulate the tank. I've seen toilet that have
Tried this, didn't work.
> - You can warm the water. I've heard of mixing valves that combine
This is the ONLY way to go!
> - My uncle put a pan under the toilet. The water drips and then
Don't like this idea.
|
198.469 | | NOVA::FISHER | now |a|n|a|l|o|g| | Wed Jun 21 1995 12:47 | 4 |
| Once your septic system starts to have problems, you'll come up
with the solution: "Tell the kids not to flush so much."
ed
|
198.470 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Wed Jun 21 1995 13:26 | 1 |
| Of course, there's an ongoing cost to the mixing valve solution.
|
198.471 | | REDZIN::COX | | Wed Jun 21 1995 13:29 | 7 |
| >Of course, there's an ongoing cost to the mixing valve solution.
Technically, of course, since you are using warm water. However, I found that
I only needed a very, very small amount of warm added to the very cold supply
to stop the sweating.
Dave
|
198.472 | | LEEL::LINDQUIST | Pluggin' prey | Wed Jun 21 1995 16:39 | 17 |
198.473 | They sell a unit made especially for this | ABACUS::DRY | | Wed Jun 21 1995 18:15 | 17 |
| Bought a plastic unit that fits under top tank of toilet at Home Depot
about a month ago. It has thin metal straps that connect pan in back
- up back side of tank and into tank. (When you put the tank lid back
on, you do not see) Also, has a strap which ties front of plastic pan
to back top of bowl unit. Comes with 2 sponges, which can be left in
plastic pan to absorb most of the water which drips into pan, and a
clear plastic hose which can be used to connect pan to drip water into
a collection pan/bottle/drain on floor.
We did not break off plastic dimple on pan to connect optional hose.
Just using the pan with the sponges. So far, this has worked well.
Before, we had water all over floor, which finally began to lift ceramic
tile around toilet. Using this method, all water has dripped into plastic
pan.
This item sold for approx $9.00, and seems to have solved our problem.
Installs in about 5 minutes.
|
198.474 | Low flow toilets don't sweat | WRKSYS::DOTY | Russ Doty, Graphics and Multimedia | Wed Jun 21 1995 21:53 | 6 |
| The new low flow toilets (1.6 gallon per flush) hold about 5 gallons
of water, but only use the 1.6 gallons per flush. Thus, the incoming
cold water is mixed with a large amount of warmer, room temperature
water. We have had no sweating with these toilets. (One of the new
ones was installed as part of a project to replace rotted flooring
caused by sweating from the previous toilet...).
|
198.475 | Isn't this topic a duplicate of .... | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, That Group | Fri Jun 23 1995 22:07 | 1 |
| 253 STAR::FARNHAM 21-JUL-1986 24 Sweating toilet - washer drainage
|
198.493 | How remove Frozen Valve Seat in ToiletFillTube | HELIX::SPIELMAN | jerry dtn 297-4879 | Thu Jun 29 1995 23:36 | 64 |
| How does one go about removing an old valve seat in the fill tube of
toilet plumbing, when the hex wrench that seems to fit it slips when
you apply pressure to turn it ? The next size up won't even fit in.
The top of the valve seat is recessed about 1 inch in a tube about 3/4
inches wide.
Detail:
I have American standard plumbing in a two piece toilet. Its all brass
type, with a fill tube that has a linkage atop it, to which the float
ball attaches via a rod at one end. When the float ball rises, it
forces a brass "dropper" piece straight down into the fill tube so it
meets the valve seat to shut off the water intake.
My initial problem is that this mechanism no longer fully shuts off the
water intake, causing a slow constant drip into the exit tube to the
bowl.
Someone, replaced the brass "dropper" and apparently the valve seat,
with parts made of plastic. The Plastic dropper part does not seem to
have a replacable rubber grommet base, as it is not held in by screw, but
rather by what looks like a nail. In any case, the plastic ring into
which the rubber grommet fits, has a crack. So I bought a new, brass
dropper from a plumbing supply (along with a matching metal valve
seat). Parts should be right as I gave them the serial# id on the
toilet. I first tried just replacing the dropper, but the leak problem
is still present. Perhaps the brass part and plastic don't mate 100%.
Much to my surprise, the 1/4 inch hex wrench which fits the new value
seat, and seems to fit the old one, will slip when I try to turn it
to remove the old seat. I can't tell if the plastic valve seat has a
plastic threaded base, or if the base is metal.
Q1: Is the following to way to go ?
One possibility suggested by my local hardware store was to try
a special bit which is intended primarily for metal part removal.
(Which I'd buy - about $3)
It looks like a drill bit but is tightened in by turning it
counterclockwise. (you use a hand held socket handle on it)
Its supposed to bite into whats there, and start
turning it free. If I try this and it chews up the old valve seat but
doesn't accomplish removal, I'll have to replace the entire fill tube
(presumably with the Fluidmaster 400) I already have at the ready.
Does anyone know if this type tool works on a plastic part. I'd prefer
to not have to change the "works" as otherwise the plumbing has been
fine. It is however about 34 years old. I've already "nicked" the top
surface of the old valve seat, when I tried a large conventional
screwdriver as a means for turning the old valve seat (but that was
after I knew the replaced dropped wouldn't fix the original problem).
Q2: Is my problem in loosening the old valve seat likely to be alleviated
by trying WD40 on the outside of the valve seat head ?
Q3: If I have to put in the FLuidmaster in place of the
fill tube, do you have to caulk anything at the bottom of the toilet
tank when you install a Fluidmaster (which is plastic) ? And if so,
is teflon tape suitable in place of caulking ?
Thanks,
Jerry
|
198.494 | | NETRIX::michaud | Jeff Michaud, That Group | Fri Jun 30 1995 02:44 | 5 |
| > ... when the hex wrench that seems to fit it slips when
> you apply pressure to turn it ? The next size up won't even fit in.
Maybe you are using metric when the actual size is in standard
units, or vice versa?
|
198.476 | Save water and reduce condensation (maybe)... | STRATA::CASSIDY | Tim Cassidy, #365 | Fri Jun 30 1995 10:49 | 12 |
| > The new low flow toilets (1.6 gallon per flush) hold about 5 gallons
> of water, but only use the 1.6 gallons per flush. Thus, the incoming
In the same vein: If you have an older toilet/tank, placing
a bottle full of water in the tank might help. The water in the
bottle will be warmer that the incoming water and should raise the
water temperature somewhat.
At the very least, this will save many gallons of water every
month with little impact on toilet operation. Use a glass bottle
with a plastic or aluminum screw on cap.
Tim
|
198.477 | | NOVA::FISHER | now |a|n|a|l|o|g| | Fri Jun 30 1995 11:34 | 7 |
| You have to keep it from moving around, otherwise it can slowly drift
over to get in the way of the ball or the flapper or something.
Filling it with stones, then water might help.
THen again, perhaps a water chipper ....
ed
|
198.478 | | WAHOO::LEVESQUE | the countdown is on | Fri Jun 30 1995 11:52 | 4 |
| >THen again, perhaps a water chipper ....
Like the combination water chipper/air shredder they're selling at
Home Depot? ;-)
|
198.495 | | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Jun 30 1995 13:04 | 4 |
| Welcome to the wonderful world of plumbing. I hate plumbing.
Whenever I try to fix one thing, something else breaks. You
may save yourself a lot of hassle if you just take everything
out and replace the entire innards of the toilet.
|
198.479 | Too much of a compromise | HELIX::WELLCOME | Steve Wellcome MRO1-1/KL31 Pole HJ33 | Fri Jun 30 1995 13:09 | 7 |
| Those combination units sound good in theory, but in practice they
don't work very well because of the extreme difference in flow
characteristics of water and air. I know you can buy a separate
venturi nozzle for use with water, but it's still a compromise.
Besides, for best operation the design of the blades for water
chipping really has to be different than the design for air shredding.
Spend the money for one of each; you'll be happier in the long run.
|
198.480 | | NOTIME::SACKS | Gerald Sacks ZKO2-3/N30 DTN:381-2085 | Fri Jun 30 1995 15:48 | 2 |
| That's true of the cheaper brands of combination devices, but it you get
a Chopsmith, you get the same quality as with separate devices.
|
198.496 | Not fun! | MAIL1::BLACKMAN | NY/NJ NIS | Fri Jun 30 1995 17:21 | 9 |
| Hi,
I ran into the exact same problem a few months ago. I did what .-1 had
suggested. Took off the whole bowl and was somehow able to get
everything out. Had to use a hacksaw across some things.
good luck
-jon
|
198.497 | There are a variety to choose from, too | CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Fri Jun 30 1995 17:37 | 13 |
| The supply valve is cheap enough that you can replace the whole thing for
less than $20.00. ..and with a brass one, not a plastic one.
Simply shut off the supply, flush the toilet to remove the bulk of the
water. sop up the rest. Remove the nut on the supply pipe. Remove the nut
holding the supply valve to the tank. remove the entire supply valve
assembly.
Install the new one and swap the float ball over to the new valve.
The only concern you should have is that the float ball not touch the tank
sides, which sometimes happens when tightening the nut on the base swings
the assembly around in the tank.
|
198.498 | Questions still unanswered | HELIX::SPIELMAN | jerry dtn 297-4879 | Fri Jun 30 1995 18:04 | 14 |
| Thanks for the responses. However, no one has yet addressed two questions:
a. How to go about removing the "frozen" valve seat ?
b. Do I need to use any kind of caulking under the toilet tank assuming
I that I end up connecting a replacement fill tube to the water supply ?
Finally, while I know I can buy brass replacements, I'd have to get the
height of the tube right... other notes in this conference suggested
that the Fluidmaster replacements work well, and they are adjustable
for height. So I'm going to give that a try (in all likelihood).
Jerry
|
198.481 | Is everybody feeling chipper? | HANNAH::BECK | Paul Beck, MicroPeripherals | Sun Jul 02 1995 20:26 | 8 |
| I'm not so sure about that. Sure, the Chopsmith is both a water
chipper and an air shredder, but to reconfigure it takes a good five
minutes and six hands, during which time you can have a lot of
unshredded air and unchipped water.
One concern with a water chipper anyway: doesn't the EPA restrict
how much chipped water can find its way back into the unchipped
water table?
|
198.482 | | TOOK::MORRISON | Bob M. LKG1-3/A11 226-7570 | Fri Jul 14 1995 16:35 | 6 |
| I like the idea of a 5-gallon tank that only uses 1.6 gallons per flush.
That means you would have to flush 3 times in rapid succession to get stone
cold water in the tank.
Re mixing valve: The amount of hot water that this uses is quite small, if
it's set properly. The cost of the power or gas would probably not be enough
to pay the interest on a loan equal to the cost of a new low-flow toilet.
|
198.483 | Save water AND power | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Fri Jul 14 1995 17:56 | 6 |
| re:18
But aren't those tempering valves roughly the cost of a low flush
toilet anyway ?
Ray
|
198.484 | | FABSIX::J_RILEY | I'm just a bug on the windshield of life. | Mon Jul 17 1995 07:32 | 5 |
| RE:.18
I believe I paid about $80 when I got mine.
Joe
|
198.485 | Toilets not that expensive | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Mon Jul 17 1995 14:23 | 10 |
| Home Depot sells a couple of the name brand 1.6 gallon flush toilets
(Eljer, Amer. Standard) in the $80-$90 price range. They currently have
an off brand one for $46 (white only), which is from a special purchase.
This also gives you the added benefit of flushing less water. It will
save you money if you're on town water/sewer, or extend the life of your
leech field and conserve well water if you're not.
Ray
|
198.486 | | REDZIN::COX | | Mon Jul 17 1995 14:35 | 4 |
| The tempering valve I purchased cost less than $10.00. A tad cheaper than
replacing the toilet.
Dave
|
198.487 | | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Mon Jul 17 1995 14:47 | 4 |
| >The tempering valve I purchased cost less than $10.00. A tad cheaper than
>replacing the toilet.
Assuming you have an easily accessable hot water pipe near the toilet.
|
198.488 | | 12363::JP | Telling tales of Parrotheads and Parties | Mon Jul 17 1995 14:53 | 6 |
| >The tempering valve I purchased cost less than $10.00. A tad cheaper than
>replacing the toilet.
>
>Dave
'Specially when you consider the cost of the "while we have the toilet out..."
|
198.489 | | REDZIN::COX | | Mon Jul 17 1995 16:51 | 9 |
| > Assuming you have an easily accessable hot water pipe near the toilet.
Why do you feel it is necessary to have the HW pipe near the toilet?
I installed the tempering valve in the basement. Since the goal is to raise the
temperature of the cold water to something approaching room temperature, the
longer the "run" between the valve and the toilet, the better.
Dave
|
198.490 | | REFINE::MCDONALD | shh! | Mon Jul 17 1995 16:58 | 8 |
|
> Why do you feel it is necessary to have the HW pipe near the toilet?
Depends entirely on the bathroom layout... if you have second floor
bathrooms without commode-only cold water supplies you'll have to
tie in near the commode.
|
198.491 | sweat collector | EVMS::YAHWHO::PETROVIC | Looking for a simpler place & time... | Tue Jul 18 1995 15:29 | 13 |
| I was in a restaurant in Conway NH last year and noticed that between the tank
and bowl was a plastic tray-like device that had a small piece of vinyl tubing
going from the tray to a container on the floor.
The tank was sweating like crazy and the floor under it was bone dry. I didn't
think to ask the owner where he/she got such a device. I'd like to get one for
my hopper tank too.
I can't imagine this thing costing nearly what a tempering valve costs. If
anyone comes across such a device, please e-mail me @ EVMS::PETROVIC.
Thx...
Chris
|
198.492 | | MILORD::BISHOP | Take hold of the life that is truly life | Tue Jul 18 1995 16:04 | 3 |
| See .9 in this string?
- R.
|
198.513 | Cammode Hissing Sound? | POWDML::GILDER | | Tue Dec 12 1995 19:19 | 38 |
| Could I please add another note with a question.
Shortly after my house was hit by lightening in July of 1994, several
other bad things happened. I think it is doubtful that plumbing
questions are connected.
A pipe burst in the middle of the night, of course....when else would a
pipe burst? It was the pipe that connects the tank to the wall.
I called this plumber because Phone book said he met my two criterion: he
accepted master card and he was 24 hours service. It was 2 a.m. when I
got him. He said he'd be right over and was. The service was terrific
and he was very fair about the price. I explained that I was concerned
the flushing mechanism had been the cause. He explained that it was
possible. He changed the float and all the stuff inside the tank with
Hunter brand model. So the unit is not the usual ball mechanism. (He
told me that he went to a class Rich Trethewey (from T.O.H.) ran and he
recommended this model over every other model.
About a week after he left the cammode started to make a hissing sound.
I called and asked about his guarantee of work. He said he'd be over at
the end of the day. When he didn't show, I called several times more. He
said he thought it was a bad unit and all he would charge me for was labor.
I questioned that but he wouldn't budge. I finally figured out if I
fiddled with the box part, the hissing went away. No matter how many
times I called him he didn't show up. It's been more than a year. Of
course nothing is guaranteed now. I continue to fiddle with the unit
over and over again.
With all that history said, is there something I can do? --Bear in
mind, I was raised a Jewish American Princess. I loved my father dearly,
but he was a doctor. That translates to he couldn't change a light bulb
without calling a master electrician. He's left me that legacy.
Thanks
Adriane
|
198.514 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | DEC == Digital; Reclaim the Name! | Tue Dec 12 1995 20:12 | 55 |
|
Have you checked for snakes in the bowl?
------------
Seriously, when and how it hisses will point to the probable cause.
If it hisses while filling, the supply shutoff valve under the tank
might be the culprit. Make sure it's fully opened, and if it already
is, close it a little while the tank is filling and see if the noise
goes away.
If it fills normally for a while after a flush, then hisses as the
tank get almost full, then finally quiets down -- this is "normal"
(albeit annoying) for some models of valves. I've seen and used valves
that have a positive, fast-acting shufoff; that is, when the tank gets
full, the valve goes from full-open to full-closed with a snapping
sound. However, most models employ a simple mechanism that puts more and
more pressure on a small water inlet as the tank gets near full. More
pressure slows down the water flow, whch finally gets to the hissing
point, but then the water is coming in so slowly that it might take a
fairly long time for enough pressure to build up to fully close the
valve, so the hissing can go on for anywhere from seconds to minutes.
If we're talking about a really long-term hiss, you might have a "leak"
in the tank. Any leak will draw down water, relieving pressure on the
shuttoff and letting more water hiss in. With just the right balance,
this hissing can go on forever, or it can turn on and off at intervals
determined by the size of the leak and by fluctuations in supply line
pressure.
One common leak is at the flapper valve; this is a large
black assembly that flaps up when you flush to let water into the bowl,
then flaps down when the tank is almost empty so it can refill. This
valve is held closed only by the pressure of the foot or so of water in
the tank, so it doesn't take much to let it leak. To check for this
leak, shut off the water supply under the tank, note the water level,
go away for a while, then check the level again. A leaking flapper
usually requires replacement.
Another possible
"leak" is the overflow tube; this is a narrow tube that extends from
almost the top of the tank through the bottom and into the bowl. This
tube serves two purposes: a smaller tube from the shutoff valve to the
overflow tube supplies a small stream of water into the bowl while the
tank is refilling, to refill the bowl to its normal level; the top of
the overflow tube also defines the maximum height of water in the tank,
preventing overflows. If the shutoff height of the water in the tank is
very close to the height of the overflow tube, water may trickle over
the top of the tube and into the bowl; this again relieves pressure on
the shutoff valve and possible hissing. To check for this, just observe
the level of water in the tank relative to the overflow tube; if it's
close, and especially if the water forms a little dimple around the tube,
adjust the float to bring the water level down a bit.
|
198.515 | Xref | FOUNDR::DODIER | Single Income, Clan'o Kids | Wed Dec 13 1995 15:24 | 10 |
| A DIR/TITLE=TOILET also yielded (among others) the following notes
to look into -
1661 PASTA::SWEENEY 2-NOV-1987 5 Noisy toilet
5054 DANGER::ASKETH 19-AUG-1993 17 My toilet's alive!!! (or at least making funny noises)
Sorry to steal your thunder Jeff ;-)
Ray
|
198.516 | | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Wed Dec 13 1995 15:29 | 5 |
| > Sorry to steal your thunder Jeff ;-)
You're more than welcome to steal *all* the thunder! I just
wish we had some active moderators moving notes to proper
places behind the scenes .... :-(
|
198.499 | More about Noisy Toilets | 2913::BISWAS | | Wed Dec 13 1995 17:26 | 12 |
| I was reading note 5054.* about toilets making noises. I have the same
problem in two of my bathrooms where there is some small leak somewhere
and the water slowly drains and finally after it goes below a level the
tank fills up. The toilets are about 11 years old and I thins it is the
flapper valve. Is this something that I can change or should I get a
plumber ? I have never claimed to be a plumber and/or a very hands on
type.
By the way, can someone suggest a good plumber ? Is there a official
plumbing notes file where I can get recommendations ?
Kasturi
|
198.500 | Buy and install a new flapper valve | GENRAL::KILGORE | The UT Desert Rat living in CO | Wed Dec 13 1995 17:57 | 2 |
| Go to a Home Depot or similar place and get a new flapper valve. That should
fix the problem.
|
198.501 | cheap and easy | NOODLE::DEMERS | | Wed Dec 13 1995 19:38 | 19 |
| The kits are cheap and the job is easy. I like the one that does not have
a float on the arm, must a self-contained unit with a float that moves up and
down on a shaft. It was more reliable.
FWIW, one can lose a -significant- amount of water via a small toilet leak. I
had one in my Hudson house and my water bill shot way up. I called the town (I
thought I was overbilled) and they gave me a memo that showed how much water
would be wasted daily with various hole sizes. Even a pin hole is big $$.
Look for:
- junk in the bottom
- poor seating flapper
- chain wrapped around something
- float not coming up all the way - I've had problems in the past with
the float not exerting enough pressure to close the valve (that -last-
little bit). I adjusted the float until the valve closed with "authority".
Chris
|
198.502 | | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Wed Dec 13 1995 20:23 | 7 |
| BTW, if your toilet is over 10 years old, instead of even bothering
applying a patch fix, just buy a whole new toilet! They are
relatively inexpensive (even a good one is less than $100),
will save you money on water bills as they use less water these
days for each flush, and a DIYer who has never replaced a toilet
before can do it in less than an hour (or if you're real good,
20 minutes)
|
198.503 | 20 minutes........ | VMSSPT::PAGLIARULO | | Thu Dec 14 1995 11:11 | 34 |
| "and a DIYer who has never replaced a toilet before can do it in less than an
hour (or if you're real good, 20 minutes)"
heh heh heh, yeah shure, 20 minutes, that's good. Let's see, you buy the toilet
and wax ring and haul it home into the bathroom. Start taking off the old
toilet by disconnecting the water supply lines and find out that the lines are
old and rusting and the clown who installed it in the first place stripped the
threads and how the hell didn't it leak all these years. So it's back to the
local home whatever store for new supply lines but what is usually a 30 minute
round trip turns into a 1 and 1/2 hour trip because it's the christmas season
and traffic is horrendous as well as the checkout lines in the home whatever
store clogged with other unsuspecting, hey this looks like an easy job
do-it-your-selfers. You finally get back home with the new supply lines, finish
taking everything apart, drag out the old toilet, get the new one ready to put
on, this is really going great now, open up the new pristine wax ring, set it in
place, put the toilet in place, maybe sit on it and wiggle around a bit to
really squish that wax ring down, bolt that baby in place, connect that lines
and turn on that water. You are DONE.
Wait a minute, what's that leak around the base of the bowl? You turn
off the supply lnes, stand there for 15 minutes staring at the the new toilet
saying to yourself "it shouldn't be doing that, why is it doing that?".
Finally you realize that the only thing to do, 3 hours after you started this
20 minute job and despite the fact that your kid doesn't understand why he has
to go outside and pee in a bush, is to take the the #^#%^%$& toilet off and
see why the wax ring isn't sealing it like it should. So you take the toilet
off and the ring isn't compressed hardly at all. You then realize that the
#^%%#$%$son of#%$#$@ who tiled the floor did it after the old toilet was
installed and now the new toilet which doesn't have the same footprint sits
on top of the tiles rather than on the subfloor like the old one. That extra
3/8" makes a difference. Now do you cut the tiles to make the toilet sit on
the subfloor or put in two wax rings, will two rings stop the leak......
Anyway that night after two more trips to home whatever store for wax rings,
replacement tiles for the ones you didn't mean to crack etc., you finally get
that toilet installed....20 min....heh heh heh yeah good one. :-):-):-):-):-)
|
198.504 | | WLDBIL::KILGORE | DEC == Digital; Reclaim the Name! | Thu Dec 14 1995 11:21 | 9 |
|
Re .3:
Just be aware that the footprint of the new unit might not be the same
as that of the old, which might lead to re-flooring, which will
probably not match the wallpaper, which was keyed to the countertop...
Been there, done that, have the pictures.
|
198.505 | | SMURF::WALTERS | | Thu Dec 14 1995 11:46 | 11 |
| .04
Too real to be funny!
In my case the added complication was that the flange had been set way
too high, compressing the wax ring away and causing a minor leak.
This in turn corroded away the steel flange, leaving nothing to attach
the bolts. All three commodes in a 9yr old house.
I've just finished a complete makeover to one bathroom that resulted
from one of these leaks.
|
198.506 | | REDZIN::COX | | Thu Dec 14 1995 12:47 | 12 |
| re .0
Before you go off the deep DIY end......
Often, this is an indication that the valve/seat (where the water leaves the
tank and dumps down to the bowl) is not a tight fit, particularly if you have
hard water. You might have a build up of scale or other "stuff" causing a
leaky fit. Try "polishing" the seat and mating valve with a "Brillo" soap pad
or one of the scratchy teflon pads used in many kitchens. Ten minutes labor
might save a few hours of plumbing.
Dave
|
198.507 | Sandra Bullock | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu Dec 14 1995 13:37 | 22 |
| > Let's see, you buy the toilet
> and wax ring and haul it home into the bathroom.
Well right from the start it's clear you may consider yourself a DIYer,
but a real DIYer (who also BTW doesn't each quiche :-) would of also
bought a new riser ...
> Start taking off the old toilet by disconnecting the water supply lines
> and find out that the lines are ....
^ ^^^ ^
Hmm, no wonder you have problems! You're trying to connect
up the toilet to the sink! (hint: most toilets don't use
hot water :-)
> ....20 min....heh heh heh yeah good one. :-):-):-):-):-)
Well you're probably right, maybe I've advanced from being DIYer
to a Pro and didn't realize it :-)
Even Sandra Bullock, the young actress ("Speed", "While you were
sleeping"), has replaced her own toilet ..... (FWIW :-)
|
198.508 | My wrench is bigger than your wrench | VMSSPT::PAGLIARULO | | Thu Dec 14 1995 13:48 | 7 |
| Oh yeah?! Well a real do-it-your-selfer WOULD have connected the toilet to the
hot water line to keep condensation from forming on the bowl. Not that mine are
of course.
George
:-):-):-):-):-)
|
198.509 | | 2155::michaud | Jeff Michaud - ObjectBroker | Thu Dec 14 1995 15:08 | 7 |
| > Oh yeah?! Well a real do-it-your-selfer WOULD have connected the toilet to the
> hot water line to keep condensation from forming on the bowl.
> Not that mine are of course.
Don't laugh! I said "most" for a reason. Some toilets are setup
such that they are hooked up to both hot & cold line for just that
reason. Home Depot even sells a part (mixing valve) for this.
|
198.510 | try this, save big $$ | USHS05::VASAK | Sugar Magnolia | Fri Dec 15 1995 12:23 | 24 |
|
>FWIW, one can lose a -significant- amount of water via a small toilet leak. I
>had one in my Hudson house and my water bill shot way up. I called the town (I
>thought I was overbilled) and they gave me a memo that showed how much water
>would be wasted daily with various hole sizes. Even a pin hole is big $$.
YUP! I nearly went apoplectic when the water company sent me a $420
water bill last month (they normally run $25-$35/month). The culprit
was a $10 flapper assembly that had deteriorated and wasn't sealing
properly. No hissing commode, no indication that there was any
problem, other than the Water Bill From Hell.
The water company gave me a technique for locating these kind of leaks
that I am now using on both commodes at the beginning of EVERY month to
avoid this kind of grief in the future...
Just put a squirt of blue food coloring in the tank. Let the toilet
sit without flushing for a half an hour or so...If ANY blue dye is
present in the toilet bowl after that time, you HAVE a leak. Spend the
$10 and the 15 minutes it takes to fix it!
/Rita
|
198.511 | Be careful who hears about that technique | SSDEVO::JACKSON | Jim Jackson | Fri Dec 15 1995 15:09 | 5 |
198.512 | .04, it could be worse! | MKOTS3::WTHOMAS | | Fri Dec 15 1995 18:26 | 12 |
| Hey .04
You mean that you didn't have corroded toilet anchor bolts that you
didn't have to saw through? You're lucky that you also didn't have to
add time for that. Even longer when you went to find that your hacksaw
wasn't were it was supposed to be, you looked in all the logical
places, grilled the kids, only to find out that it was left out in the
woods for several weeks when the kids *borrowed* it in building their
hideaway. Not that it was any good anyway (said the kid) as it did a
lousy job of cutting the paneling and the blade busted (now WHERE did I
put those spare blades...).
|
198.576 | | CSLALL::NASEAM::READIO | A Smith & Wesson beats four aces, Tow trucks beat Chapman Locks | Tue Jan 30 1996 19:50 | 25 |
| <<< Note 198.575 by CHARON::DCOX "Try? Try not! Do, or do not." >>>
I also have a similar problem. I have also heard of the same problem in
bathrooms in ranch houses and those that have a two storey drop before the
drain takes a bend.
The end of much research suggested that the problem is in the design of the
particular commode.
For the flush action to work properly you need to keep adding water to the bowl
as water and waste leaves. If you always need to double flush, it indicates
that water is not coming in long enough (or wates is not leaving fast enough).
If the bowl fills up close to the top (and there is no untoward blockage)
before draining, the waste is not leaving fast enough (or fresh water is coming
in too fast). All of the above seems boringly obvious now, it took a while to
verify.
At any rate, if it makes you unhappy, talk to a plumbing contractor and get
a recommended brand to solve your problem. Or live with it until it is time to
re-renovate the bathroom. :-)
Good luck, and may you be flushed with success.
Dave
|
198.577 | Removing Rusted Flush Valve Base Stem?? | POWDML::SELIG | | Mon Oct 07 1996 15:01 | 18 |
198.578 | brute force enhancers | CPEEDY::BRADLEY | Chuck Bradley | Mon Oct 07 1996 17:53 | 36 |
198.579 | Saga Ends: Sawzall Wins! | POWDML::SELIG | | Wed Oct 09 1996 13:55 | 13 |
198.580 | Pressure assisted Toilet - flushing heaven! | ZEKE::ASCHNEIDER | Andy Schneider - DTN 381-1696 | Wed Nov 20 1996 14:33 | 22 |
198.581 | Toilet handle broke! | debna.lkg.dec.com::LBASSETT | Design | Tue Apr 15 1997 17:32 | 14 |
| help! I've tried to search this note but there are just too many
replies.....
My problem: last night I flushed the toilet and rod inside the tank
that connects the handle to the thing that pulls the water valve open
broke. It seems to made of some kind of plastic... I looked in to see
if I could unscrew the handle so I could replace the plastic rod but it
seems to be permanently stuck together.
How do I fix this? Is there a super-super glue that works for this???
Help, please!
Linda
|
198.582 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Tue Apr 15 1997 18:24 | 5 |
| You can buy replacement handles with the lever attached at most any hardware
store. There should be a nut (probably plastic) that holds the handle against
the tank from the inside.
Steve
|
198.583 | Reverse threaded nut | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Tue Apr 15 1997 18:55 | 5 |
| The plastic nut mentioned in the previous note is reverse threaded.
This means that if you were trying to unscrew it, you were actually
tightening it.
Ray
|
198.584 | | debet.lkg.dec.com::LBASSETT | Design | Thu Apr 17 1997 17:58 | 6 |
| YIKES! There is a white plastic ring but I don't think I can unscrew
it...there is nothing to grab onto.
Is that the only way to fix it?
linda
|
198.585 | a time-honored method.. | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Tom Kopec W1PF | Thu Apr 17 1997 18:04 | 5 |
| Might want to stop in at your favorite "home center" and see what the
replacement part(s) look like; that might give you a clue as to how to
take the old one apart..
...tom
|
198.586 | | QUARK::LIONEL | Free advice is worth every cent | Thu Apr 17 1997 18:39 | 5 |
| Look to see if the handle has a setscrew or something to hold it onto the
shaft - if so, and you remove it, the assembly may remove from the outside
(though I've never seen one that did this).
Steve
|
198.587 | replacement kit has diagram&directions | WRKSYS::RICHARDSON | | Thu Apr 17 1997 18:50 | 10 |
| The replacement toilet handle kits have directions and a diagram on the
back of the blisterpack they come in - you can't miss. There are only
a small handful of possible sets of parts that are at all common
(unless you have really exotic, or really expensive, plumbing
fixtures). You just have to find the one whose picture matches your
plumbing, and follow the directions on it - it's almost always a real
simple one, as plumbing repairs go (not one of my favorite sorts of
repairs to have to d.i.y.).
/Charlotte
|
198.588 | at least it's the clean end.. | TEKVAX::KOPEC | Tom Kopec W1PF | Thu Apr 17 1997 19:42 | 4 |
| well, at least the flush handle is the better end of the toilet to be
dealing with..
...tom
|
198.589 | Where are you looking ? | FOUNDR::DODIER | Double Income, Clan'o Kids | Thu Apr 17 1997 19:46 | 11 |
| re:584
Are you looking for the handle nut on the outside of the toilet or
the inside ? The nut will be on the inside. Last year I got rid of my
original toilets (25+ years old) and even they had the nut on the
inside.
As Steve said, I guess it's possible you could have something
different, but I too have never seen it.
Ray
|
198.590 | More than you've ever wanted to know... | BSS::BRUNO | Stand In The Gap | Fri Apr 18 1997 14:45 | 5 |
| <Sounding like an announcer for a 1950's TV commercial>
Whenever my toilet vexes me, I go directly to WWW.TOILETOLOGY.COM
Greg
|
198.591 | You name it - it's on the web! | STAR::DIPIRRO | | Mon Apr 21 1997 14:56 | 1 |
| Boy, you weren't kidding!
|
198.592 | | DYPSS1::SCHAFER | | Mon Apr 21 1997 23:13 | 1 |
| in spades. great site, though, if you give a - er, cr*p. 8-}
|